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Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy B. Wilson. And I'm Holly Fry, October. A great time to do episodes on people who may or may not have even been real. Today, it is Mother Shipton who is described as living in 16th century England and was everything from an oracle to a witch to the daughter of the devil, depending on which of the many sources are reading. Why can't it be all of us? I mean, it really can be all of these things.

And usually when we're doing an episode about a person, we start out with their birth or maybe with some context about their life, but still getting to their being born fairly quickly. Even if we don't know the details, we usually at least know for sure that the person was, in fact, born.

Her mother shipped him. Not so much. It's a little fuzzy. It is not even clear whether the quote, first written reference to her is actually even about her. Yeah, that first reference was penned by Henry the Eighth not long after England formally broke away from the Catholic Church. Part of the aftermath of that split was an uprising in Yorkshire, known as the Pilgrimage of Grace, which started in 15 36 and then continued into the following year. On February 22nd of fifteen thirty seven, Henry the Eighth dictated a letter to the Duke of Norfolk, thanking him for his services and helping to put down this insurrection before giving this instruction, quote, You shall send up to us the traitors by God, the friar of Knaresborough Leisz.

If he may be taken, the vicar of Penrith and Townly late Chancelor to the Bishop of Carlisle, who has been a great promoter of these rebellions, the Witch of York and one Dr Pickering, a Canon Bridlington. We really do not have much to go on about whether that Witch of York that Tracy just mentioned in the letter was actually Mother Shipton. But a lot of sources do make that connection. And the next known reference to her in writing does circle back to Henry the eighth from a little earlier in his reign.

It's the prophecy of Mother Shipton in the reign of King Henry, the eighth foretelling the death of Cardinal Wolsey, the Lord Percy and others as also what should happen in ensuing times. That was published in sixteen forty, one hundred and four years after Henry the Eighth sent that letter to the Duke of Norfolk and about one hundred and ten years after the events, it purportedly documents. So time passed between when these things purportedly happened and when this was written down.

So when Henry the eighth ascended to the throne in 1909, Thomas Wolseley started out as his all manner or the person who was responsible for distributing arms to the poor. But then Wolseley became increasingly influential. During Henry's early reign, he took on various matters of state and was named the Bishop of Lincoln, the Archbishop of York and then cardinal all by fifteen fifteen. He kept growing in power and wealth from there, but then he started to fall out of favor in fifteen twenty nine after he failed to convince the Pope to annul the King's marriage to Catherine of Aragon.

Not long afterward, Cardinal Wolseley decided it would be prudent to leave London and he headed for York. In spite of having been named its archbishop, he had never actually been there. And according to this pamphlet, when Mother Shipton heard about this, she declared that he would never come to the city. Word of this declaration got back to the cardinal who sent the Duke of Suffolk, Lord Percy and Lord Darcy, to York so they could question her. They demanded that she explain her statement that the king would never see the city.

And she answered, I said he might see York but never come at it. The Duke of Suffolk told her that when the cardinal came in to York, he would see her burned. In response, mother shifted, took the handkerchief off of her head and threw it into the fire and said that when it burned, she would burn. I kind of love that the handkerchief did not catch fire, though. And then she pulled it out again and put it back onto her head.

From there, Mother shipped told the Duke of Suffolk, quote, The time will come. You will be as low as I am. And that's a low one indeed. Then she told Lord Percy, quote, Shew your horse in the quick and you shall do well. But your body will be buried in York pavement and your head shall be stolen from the bar and carried into France. And she told Lord Darsey, quote, You have made a great gun.

Shoot it off or it will do you no good. You are going to war. You will pay many a man, but you will kill none. And then her questioners, all having been told some creepy and CGY things went away.

Yeah. Her whole behaviour had. In a little in addition to the things that we just said when they got to the door, she knew who they were without having looked outside. So this pamphlet goes on to note that Cardinal Wolseley never came in to York on the way there in November of 15 30, he was arrested on charges of treason and he died of an illness before getting back to London to face those charges. According to the pamphlet, he climbed up the tower at Caywood, which was eight miles from York, and he saw the city from there at the top of the tower before he was arrested.

So Mothership Din's prophecy came true. He had seen York, but he had not come at it.

This pamphlet then describes several other prophecies that mother shipped in related to a Master Besley. The first one was, quote, When Oose Bridge and Trinity Church meet, they shall build on the day and it shall fall in the night until they get the highest stone of Trinity Church to the low stone of Oase bridge. More prophecies followed, foretelling wars. The comings of kings and queens battles, many of the battles between England and Scotland.

And then the last prophecy quote. After that, a ship comes sailing up the Thames until it come to London and the master of the ship shall weep, and the Mariners shall ask him why he weep with being he hath made so good a voyage, and he shall say what a goodly city this was, none in the world comparable to it. And now there is scarce left any house that can let us have a drink for our money.

And then the brochure detailing all of these strange prophecies ends with a couplet unhappy he that lives to see these days. But happy are the dead. Shipman's wife says the title page of this pamphlet is illustrated with a woodcut that depicts a woman, presumably Mother Shipton. She is wearing a gown from the late Tudor era with a rough at the neck and billowy sleeves and a bum roll. Basically, it's a simpler version of something that you might see on a portrait of Queen Elizabeth.

The first something that a respectable woman would wear. Nothing seems particularly strange or unsettling or supernatural in her appearance. Other editions of these prophecies followed in sixteen forty two with woodcuts that shifted from someone who looked like a seer or a cunning woman, which was a respectable woman who used magic for good, to looking more like a witch, which was of course, a person who used magic to do harm in this case. First she had a wart on her cheek and then she had a large hooked nose and an incredibly wrinkled face.

People also started publishing their interpretations of Mothership Din's prophecies, including how or whether they had come true. One of the people who did this was astrologer William Liley, who published what he called the most exact copy of mother ship Duns Prophecies in a collection of ancient and modern prophecies in sixteen forty five, he notes the outcomes of the prophecies, starting with mother ship and telling the Duke of Suffolk that he would be as low as she was. This was presumably Henry Gray, the first Duke of Suffolk, father of Lady Jane Grey, who we've talked about on the show before.

That was the nine day queen. He was beheaded for treason and fifteen fifty four. She had told Lord Percy that he would be beheaded and his head stolen. Lily seems to interpret this as being Thomas Percy, Seventh Earl of Northumberland, who was beheaded for treason after leading the rising in the north, which was an attempt to overthrow Queen Elizabeth the first. But that doesn't really make sense that Lord Percy was beheaded in 1072 and was still a baby.

When Cardinal Woolsey set out for York, however, his father, Sir Thomas Percy, was executed but not beheaded in fifteen thirty seven for his role in the pilgrimage of Grace. So was Thomas Darsey. Lord Darcy, although it doesn't seem like Lily specifically mentioned that, yeah, I could not find an actual scan of the entirety of Lilly's writing, so I was like relying on quotations from it in another work. Doesn't seem like you specifically said anything about Lord Darcy, but maybe he did.

Lilly also notes that Trinity Steeple fell down in a storm and Oose Bridge washed away in a flood in 1864. And according to his account, the repaired bridge kept falling down until someone remembered this prophecy and they used the stone from the top of the steeple as part of the Bridges Foundation. He also notes that a few of the prophecies had not been fulfilled when he wrote this like that, concluding one about the ship sailing into London. This book came out during the English Civil Wars and Lilly was a parliamentarian.

So a lot of his interpretations on the prophecies that were related to wars and battles have kind of a parliamentarian spin on things, other editions of the prophecies that came out. In the early 60s agree that most of them had already been fulfilled by them, but not that last one. But then in September of 1866, the Great Fire of London gutted much of the central city. On October 20th of that year, Samual Peeps wrote an entry in his diary about a conversation he had with Colonel Thomas Middleton, commissioner of the Navy.

Quote, He says he was on board the prince when the news of the burning of London and all the prince said was that now Shipman's prophecy was out.

So was that last prophecy about the great fire of London.

People, sir, did seem to think it was. But not long after this, the tone of the writing about Mother Shipton and her prophecies changed a whole lot. And we will get to that after a sponsor break. This is the secret syllabus podcast. I remember the good old times when I was a college student and then 20, 20 hit. Hi, I'm Hannah Ashton, and I'm Katy Tracy. We're here to fill in everything they missed in our college curriculum, just like you were confronting the unknown.

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In sixteen sixty seven, a new addition of Mother Shipman's protheses claimed to document her biography. This was written by Irish poet and satirist Richard Head and the words of 18th century theater historian David Erskine. Baker head was a man, quote of two pernicious passions is poetry and gaming, one of which is, for the most part, unprofitable, and the other almost always destructive. Heads book is The Life and Death of Mother Shipton being not only a true account of her strange birth and most important passages of her life, but also all her prophecies now newly collected and historically experienced from the time of her birth in the reign of King Henry the seventh until this present year 16 67, containing the most important passages of state during the reign of these kings and queens of England.

I once worked in a cataloging department of a library, and every time a weird title like this would come up, I would be like, how does anyone make sense of whether they want to read this?

It is an incredibly sensational piece of writing, especially when compared to the more straightforward accounts of Mother Schifrin's.

Prophecies from earlier in the 17th century had claimed that he had gotten an account of Mother Shipman's life from a monastery in Yorkshire. He said the manuscript was in such poor condition that it was completely illegible, and he alleged that he restored their readability by beating them, then soaking them with wine, then distilling them and the wine and then distilling them in the water that had come off during that first distillation process. In the words of an eighteen eighty one debunking of this whole thing, quote, Chemists will appreciate the novelty of the distilling operation in which on the application of heat as described, water came over before alcohol.

That's not how it works. Also, I would just if you get some old manuscripts that you say like 200 years old, please do not beat them and just tell them why. Yeah, I'm just I'm I'm maybe I'm being naive, but I'm trying to envision any world in which someone would be like, yeah, that sounds like the way to restore a manuscript. Yeah, that sounds that sounds correct. Heads biography of Mother Ship. In which, to be clear, obviously seems entirely his own fabrication begins with her mother, Agatha, who he says lived near the dropping well in Yorkshire, England.

This is a natural formation in which mineral rich water slides down the face of the rock in drips into a pool below. If you place something in the drips, mineral deposits seem to petrify it over time. The dropping well is a tourist attraction today, and according to its website, it is the oldest visitor attraction in England, having been in operation since sixteen thirty. And we're going to talk a little bit more about it later.

Yeah, honestly, it looks pretty cool. I would go there. Let's do it. Travel were possible at the moment. According to Head, Agatha's parents had died. They had left her orphaned at the age of 15 and forced to rely on charity from the parish.

Then the devil appeared to her in the shape of a handsome man, whisking her away to a lavish palace where he gifted her with sumptuous clothes and married her and promised her all kinds of power and wealth.

But it's the devil, after all. So after the devil had gotten Agatha to repeat a series of words that bound her to him, he clapped his hands and the whole thing disappeared. Agatha was carried back home to her late parents cottage in a chariot pulled by two dragons. Her neighbours came to check on her, and they found her surprisingly altered, saying she looked as if a hedgehog had read her.

Afterward, the devil, still disguised as a handsome man, visited Agatha regularly and soon strange supernatural things were happening around the house. Her neighbours started to mistreat her because they started to suspect that she was a witch, and soon they were suffering misfortunes like suddenly having horns growing out of their heads or finding that a horse that had died had a stomach full of fish hooks, unseen hands, pelted the neighbours with rotten apples and garbage, and they found their houses suddenly overrun by toads and ATRs.

And to talk about the thing I'm thinking about maybe in our casual Friday, so when Agatha became pregnant, she refused to tell anyone who the father was. She was taken before a judge and she told him that her pregnancy was, quote, by no mortal white. The judge concluded that she was an ignorant, seduced woman and prepared to set bail for her. But then two gentlemen appeared out of nowhere, paid her bail and vanished. Agatha gave birth to a daughter not long after this daughter was mother shipped in.

So according to Head, she was not just a witch. She was the daughter of the devil. Then his account goes on at length about how unusual her appearance was. Quote, She was of an indifferent height, but very morose and big boned her head very long with very great goggling, but sharp and fiery eyes, her nose of an incredible and unknown proportional length, having in it many crooks and turnings adorned with many strange pimples of diverse colors as red, blue and mixed, which, like vapors of brimstone, gave such a luster to her a frightened spectators in the dead time of the night that one of them confessed several times in my hearing that her nurse needed no other light to assist her in the performance of her duty.

That's only about a third of the physical description head goes on and on to talk about a jaundiced complexion and wrinkles and snaggle teeth in a chin that turned up toward her mouth and a distorted neck and a twisted body and legs. If you've listened to last year's episode on Matthew Hopkins, who named himself England's Witchfinder General during the 16 forties, there is a lot of overlap between the description and the purportedly unnatural physical features of witches.

Is the tone of the purely fantastical things that were happening around the house also kind of reminds me of some of the things that we read in that episode. Head goes on to say that Agatha could not take care of her daughter. So a nurse took over and one day the nurse went to see the overseers of the poor and she came home to find the cottage door standing open. She called for help from the neighbors, thinking something was wrong. And soon they were beset by all kinds of supernatural mischief.

There was a strange noise, quote, as if it had been a consort of cats. Yokes spontaneously appeared around their necks. Two of the men suddenly found that they had a staff for carrying loads that was resting across both of their shoulders and then hanging from it was a naked old woman who was sort of dancing around and a variety of postures. The women were flung down onto the floor with their clothes turned up over their heads, and then everyone was compelled to chase one another around the room.

Eventually, they found the apparent culprit in all of this. The baby in her cradle, which was hanging with no visible support, several feet up the chimney. As this baby grew up, the devil visited regularly in the form of an animal. And the supernatural mischief continued, in Head's words, quote, To be sure, the nurse was so continually terrified by these apparitions that she resolved to complain to the parish. And having made known the truth of what had passed and commiseration to the woman, almost distracted, they removed Mother Shipton to another place where she was put to school.

Being of an age now fitting for it, I love the idea that this child of the devil who was causing all kinds of supernatural mischief was just going to be sent to school. Now it'll be fine.

I'll straighten it right out soon. The young mother, Shipton, was developing a reputation for being able to foretell the future. People started coming to her with small questions like when they might get married, and then they moved on to bigger things, like whether someone's sick father was going to survive and then even larger questions like whether or not a war was coming had.

The book includes some version of many of the prophecies that had been published earlier in the 17th century. But it also includes some that just don't seem to be in any of those earlier documents, like, quote, A prince that never shall be born shall make the shaved heads forlorn. That's read as being about Edward, the sixth commonly believed to have been born by caesarean section. Although that's unsubstantiated, his making the shaved heads for Lauren is read as a reference to his making England into a more specifically Protestant nation.

Head also includes a more direct reference to Lady Jane Grey, the nine day queen, quote, by parents to ambitious pride, the scaffold shall, with blood be dyed. A virtuous lady then shall die for being raised up to high. Her death shall cause another's joy. Who will the kingdom much annoying. That last little bit is about Mary, the first otherwise known as Bloody Mary.

Here is a longer passage, which to me almost feels like a tour of old episodes of our show. Quote The Lion Fierce Being dead and gone. A maiden queen shall reign anon on those whose side then shall sing and the bells shall changes ring. The Papal Tower shall bear no sway Rome's trash. They'll be swept away. The locusts sent from the Seven Hills, the English rose shout seek to kill the Western monarchs. Wooden horses shall be destroyed by the Drakes forces Troy no triumphant Spier shall be consumed with flames of fire.

More wonders yet a widowed queen in England shall be headless. Seen the harp shall give a better sound. An Earl without a head be found soon after. Shall the English rose unto a male her place dispose. So there's a whole stretch of British history here. Queen Mary being the lion fierce followed by Elizabeth, the first the maiden queen and the bell shall changes ring kicking off a series of references to the rise of Protestantism. There's the Spanish Armada being destroyed by Sir Francis Drake.

The collapse of the spire of St. Paul's Cathedral in fifteen sixty one, the beheading of Mary Queen of Scots, the Tudor conquest of Ireland and James, the sixth of Scotland becoming James.

The First of England Heads book contains a prophecy about the gunpowder plot. Quote, Hell's Power by a fatal blow shall seek the lands to overthrow, which by mistake shall be reversed and heads from shoulders be dispersed. Also, the Great Plague and the Fire of London with, quote, great death in London shall be, though, and men on tops of houses go head.

The book ends with a series of prophecies that he claims are referring to future times. One, The Eagle Droops and Moltz. His wings and feuds shall grow between Northern Kings. Holland is threatened, Spain doth pine and blood shall swell. The rapid rise to when once the orange and the rose unite, beware old England's foes three. Tis done no more shall monsters pride triumphant over nations ride the meteor falls and scarce shall have a morning tear or a Christian grave.

For the lily is now bewail their loss and serve, but to adorn the cross five, the works begun. But would you see the harvest ripe? Join eight to three. The Northern Star at last appears and an all conquering banner rears sixth.

How how will you miscreants all your deeds shall now receive their worthy needs. But long ere this poor Shipton sleeps in her grave and Europe Weeps Heads book was reprinted in sixteen eighty six with similar but even more sensational text.

The sixteen eighty six version clarifies that Mother Shipman's name was Ursula s tale and that her mother was Agatha or a Mantha and that Ursula became Mother Shipton after marrying a carpenter named Toby Shipton. It also adds the detail that Mother shipped in foretold her own death at the age of 73. In sixteen fifty one little sixteen eighty six version also has a more obvious thread of misogyny than heads earlier version, generally depicting women as slothful and immoral and conniving and gossipy. It notes that at 16, Agatha was still a maid because back then you could still find women who were maids at sixteen.

That implies that Ursula either bewitched Toby to get him to marry her or bewitched herself some money to lure him into it. Mother Shipton catches the thief in this version, with the theft having happened while the victim was at a neighbor's house, quote, telling a gossip's tale of an hour long.

She was off yap, yap, yap and heads account really set the standard for mother shift in law in the late 17th century, it kicked off a huge explosion of books about her life and purported prophecies and many, many fictional depictions, including plays, songs and even puppet shows. Mother Shipton became something of a stock character featured in at least 16 books and a play before seventeen hundred. One of those books was Mother Shipman's Christmas carols, which came out in sixteen sixty eight and was the first book to focus only on this character's life rather than on her prophecies.

By this point, her appearance was solidified as what we would consider very witchey with a downturned nose and upturned chin, lots of wrinkles and a hunched posture. So like caricature. Witchey. Yes, yes. And see also as being a character in these puppet shows and also pantomimes you can see evidence of today. There is a very creepy Mother Shipton puppet head in the Victoria and Albert Museum collection that you can see online.

In addition to appearing as a character in these kinds of things, she was also used as a descriptor so people would describe other characters as looking like or being as ugly as Mother Shipton.

But none of this made mention of what was probably a mother ship, its most famous prophecy. And we're going to talk about that after a sponsor break.

Her with the of Brown is a weekly podcast brought to you by Cynical Women Podcast Network and I Heart Radio. I'm your host, Amena Brown.

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But by the time Henley's book came out, she was mostly connected to Knaresborough. Henley marks her place of birth in this book as Knaresborough and 1886. Hindley claimed that this book was a word for word reprinting of a manuscript from sixteen eighty seven. But it includes a collection of prophecies that had never appeared in print before because he made them up. Some of the new editions seem to foretell more modern inventions that would be easily identifiable to readers like, quote, Carriages without horses shall go and accidents fill the world with woe or quote, around the world, thoughts shall fly in the twinkling of an eye.

But the most famous of these new editions was by far the world to an end shall come in eighteen hundred and eighty one.

After some of Handley's new prophecies were printed in notes and queries, somebody from that journal contacted him about them. And on April twenty sixth of 1873, notes and queries printed this statement. Quote, Mr. Charles Henley of Brighton in a letter to us, has made a clean breast of having fabricated the prophecy quoted at page 450 of our last volume, with some ten others included in his reprint of a chapbook version published in 1862. Even though Hindley admitted that he had fabricated all this and that fabrication was made public in 1873, sensational books reached a much broader audience than the more scholarly notes and queries.

So as 1881 approached, people started to panic about the possible arrival of doomsday. Most of the copies of his book were sold from Handley's Bookshop in Brighton, so most of the panic was centered there. But it also spread to rural areas. According to reports, people abandoned their work and crops and started sleeping out in the fields, anticipating the end of the world. This may have been stoked by the appearance of two comets that were visible to the naked eye that year and an aurora borealis that was visible in northern England.

In response to all of this, the British Library got William Henry Harrison, which is a different William Henry Harrison than the one who served as the ninth president of the United States to investigate and debunk it. The result was mother ship that investigated the result of critical examination in the British Museum Library of the Literature relating to the Yorkshire Sebel, which was published in 1881. Harrison concluded that most of what had been written about Mother Shipton had been fabricated. But that quote There may be some foundation for the incident narrated about Cardinal Wolsey.

Eventually, the 1881 doomsday panic passed, although there were editions of Henry's prophecies in quotation marks that were published in the twentieth century and claimed that the date for the end of the world was actually nineteen ninety one. The end of the world is big business today. Mother Shipman's cave in Knaresborough, England, is a tourist attraction. It's part of a park that also includes the dropping well that we mentioned earlier, which is now called the petrifying. Well, the dropping well has been a tourist attraction for centuries, but the cave is a relatively new addition, at least in terms of its being described as mother ship Dean's birthplace until nineteen eighty eight.

The mother ship, Dean's birthplace attraction was a house and not a cave. There's also a mother ship in Moth that named for the blotches on its wings that look like the profile of a Witchey looking head with a long nose that curves down and a chin that turns up.

So in terms of that facial profile, it actually has a lot in common with another figure from English popular culture. And that is the character of Punch.

William Henry Harrison's report on his investigation into Mother Shipped and lists a long series of visual similarities between the prevailing depictions of Mother Shipton and of Punch quote one the hooked nose and chin to the peaked cap. Three, the hub for the dress with prominent lines. Five The uplifted hand. Six the grasping of a weapon with the other hand. Seven. Each of them faces an important individual in a peculiar cap perched upon an elevated structure. Cardinal Wolsey in one instance, Toby in the other.

The pictures of mother shifted and punch can look so much alike that there are items in museum collections that are marked as possibly being either of them or maybe Mother Hubbard.

However, in 2017, a new statue of mother shipped in was unveiled in Knaresborough, which does not look like this at all. She has a wrinkled but almost kindly face, and she's sitting on a bench with an illustrated scroll across her lap. There are still some nods to twitchiness, though. There's a strange creature reading the scroll, a hat with feet and what looks like a clam with teeth eating a frog. The statue was funded through a crowdfunding campaign and sculpted by Christopher Kelly.

Yeah, I actually like the sculpture quite a lot. So was this a real person? In the words of her entry in the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, quote, Although almost everything written about Mother Shipton and attributed to her has been invented. She was in all probability of veridical woman living in York about 15, 30, the mothership.

Then I told Holly a couple of weeks ago, I'm going to do something on mother ship and if I could find enough and then I found way more than I was expecting.

Did you find listener mail as well? I did. This is from Anna and Anna wrote to us after our teargassed episode. Anna says, Dear Holly and Tracy, I recently discovered your podcast and have been listening from my home in Kent, U.K. over the last two months. And I've really enjoyed going through your past episodes. I just got to your episode on Teargassed and it was fascinating. I was very pleased to hear you mention the Chilean student protests toward the end of the episode.

I was actually living in Chile in a tiny farming town just outside the capital as a 19 year old. When these are going on, working in the education of children with additional needs is a gap year. We were one of the only schools in the country not being occupied by our students. Most of my Chilean friends and their younger siblings spent huge chunks of the year living barricaded in their schools, running a sort of educational co-op. After a couple of months of this, there were mass protests with people from all walks of life taking to the streets to vocalize the general feeling that the government was failing its people, particularly its young people.

The education system was systematically underfunded, which undermined their constitutional obligation to provide good quality, free education to the population. I was fascinated by this at the time and watched with horror as it escalated day on day. I have very vivid memories of the first time I experienced it firsthand. I was in a park called Santa Lucia, which is on a hill, and suddenly felt this incredible burning sensation in my mouth and eyes. When looking down at the streets below, I could see thousands of protesters.

The screaming and sirens went on for what felt like hours as we were stuck in our park for surrounded by police and protesters below. We were probably two miles away from the actual protest point, but the effects of the gas, even from that distance, were alarming and terrible. A few weeks after this, we actually got stranded overnight at a friend's house in the center because the fighting got so bad it was decided it was unsafe for us to travel back home.

Fast forward nine years and I finally returned in the summer of twenty nineteen. On our first day in Santiago, I went back to Santa Lucia. And lo and behold, that same feeling of burning pain, difficulty breathing and stinging eyes overwhelmed me again. I knew right away what was happening and looking down saw a very familiar scene below. Over the course of the two weeks that we were there, we saw the army a handful of times. Only a month after we got home, Chile was back almost exactly where it had been when I lived there nine years previously.

One thing people who have not directly experienced this in their city fail to understand is that this gas does not just affect those at whom it is targeted, but whole communities of people around it. For hours and hours afterward, I was struck by your comment that in some places its use has become a normal part of life. It resonated so much with my experience in Chile on my return, our tour guide was completely nonchalant about the protests going on below, even going so far as to pull a scarf out of his bag to cover his face as we walked along saying that he was always ready for tear gas at any time.

Many of my Chilean friends have said the same thing. The regularity of its use is astounding and very worrying. I want to thank you so much for this incredible hard work that goes into your podcast providing so much joy and fascination to history geeks like me all around the world. It would make me happy to hear a podcast on the history of the Chilean dictatorship, its links to the CIA and how it has impacted so much of Chilean culture, history and politics ever since.

Keep up the amazing work and I look forward to seeing what comes next. Best wishes, Anna. Thank you so much, Anna, for this email.

I know it was a little longer than the emails that we typically read, but I really appreciated hearing that first person perspective about something that we were really only able to mention briefly in passing in that episode.

So thank you. Thank you again for writing. If you would like to write to us about this or any other podcast, we are at History podcast that I heart radio dotcom. And then we're also all over social media at MTT in history. That's where you'll find her Facebook and Pinterest and Twitter and Instagram. And you can subscribe to our show on our podcast and the I Heart radio app and anywhere else that you get your podcasts.

Stuff you missed in history class is the production of I Heart Radio for more podcasts from My Heart radio visit by her radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. You know how they say history repeats itself, we've allowed ourselves to be so divided, no one can disagree anymore without hating on the Frost Tapes podcast will be sharing interviews from legendary TV host David Frost, who sat down with some of the most influential people of the 60s and 70s.

A time of great upheaval in America, a time that feels so much like today.

I did not elect Nixon, but I'm a black American and I know something about the crime of silence.

It's funny, isn't it, that there aren't any women in the executive positions of this company?

I think it's really sort of involves the national purpose, almost the soul of the country. Or when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal.

You won't find these tapes anywhere else. So join me, Wilfred Frost, as we turn back the clock on the frost tapes. Listen to the frost tapes on the radio are Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.