Walter Isaacson set out to write about a world-changing genius in Elon Musk and found a man addicted to chaos and conspiracy.

I'm thinking it's idiotic to buy Twitter because he doesn't have a fingertips feel for social, emotional networks.

The book launched a thousand hot takes, so I sat down with Isaacson to try to get past the noise.

I like the fact that people who say, I'm not as tough on Musk as I should be are always using anecdotes from my book to show why we should be tough on Musk.

Join me, Evan Ratliff, for on Musk with Walter Isaacson. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, and welcome to The Shortstuff. I'm Josh, and Chuck Sayer, and Jerry Seymour, and Dave Sayer and Spirit, everybody. It's time to munch and chow down on the short stuff about pickles. One of the greatest things ever invented.

We've talked about this before. I know it makes me weird. I don't like pickles.

Does it make you weird? I just feel sad for you.

I mean, I think most people love pickles. I have found some support in my family. My brother's son, my nephew are a- Noah? -neighbor. I was about to call him my cousin because now he's a grown adult. It feels weird to call my nephew. But yeah, Noah is married now to his great wife, Ellie, and they're having a baby. Ellie hates pickles just like me.

Wow! That's unusual. There's a stereotype of pregnant people wanting pickles and ice cream.

That's true. Actually, I should check back with her to see how that's going. And also, Ellie is equally annoyed as I am with this other fact, which is pickles are so ubiquitous on a sandwich platter or a burger platter or whatever that they don't even tell you on the menu that they're going to throw a big, stink, pickle, spear on your plate to let that juice infect six of your French fries that you then.

Can't eat. Wow. You really don't like pickles.

I tell people at restaurants, I was like, Are there pickles? Yeah, but they're on the side. I was like, Please, do not even include them on my plate because that juice will infect either part of my hamburger bun or like five or six French fries. And they're always like, Jeez, dude, get a life.

They say, You want me to hold the pickles? And you say, I want you to take the pickles and hold them between your knees.

Oh, great reference.

Let's talk about Chuck. Not just how much you dislike them or how much I love them, but where they came from in the first place.

That's right. They have been around for a very, very long, long time. 20, 30 B. C. E. Is when people started transporting cucumber across Mesipotamia. That is, as we've learned over the years, a lot of foods that we have now are variations on other foods that receive that variation because they were trying to preserve it or transport it.

Somewhere else. Yeah, those cucumberes, so it's in dispute. Our friends at Menofloss pointed out that it's possible that what they were talking about were snake melons that later people transcribed or translated into cucumber, but that it wasn't actually cucumber. We're not exactly sure when cucumber has hit the scene. They did come out of the Mespotamian area, the Middle East. We do know that. They probably hit Europe in the early medieval era. We know that pickles came before cucumber. People were pickling things as far back as 9,000 years ago, according to ancient texts from China.

They.

Just weren't pickling cucumber. They were pickling fish. They were pickling pigs' heads. They were pickling the heads of their enemy. Anything you could pickle, they.

Were pickling- Pickling their livers.

Yes, definitely. But they just weren't pickling cucumber yet.

Yeah. That's generally what we're talking about here, to be clear, is the we know you can pickle all kinds of things, but the old pickle that's on the plate that ruins the French fries. It either came from the Dutch word pekel, P-E-K-E-L, or the German perkel, P-O-U-M-Lout. I'm sorry, that's not an Umlout. I wonder if that's a mistake.

Poochle. It's got to be poochle with an umlaut.

Yeah, but it's a little, what do you call that accent in French?

I think somebody fat-fingered.

That one. I think so because I've never seen that in German. So I'm going to say it's supposed to be an umlaut, a P-O-K-E-L, which means salt or brine. And they used to be in Victorian England, pickles was something that you ate if you had a lot of money. And they also served them. They would pickle them in the house and then serve them, or store them, rather, in what's called a Pickle Castore, C-A-S-T-O-R, which is they would just keep it as a centerpiece on the table. And if you look up like an antique Pickle Castore, they're cool, they're beautiful. I don't know if you saw any pictures.

I did.

They look like an oil lamp, almost like a really ornate oil lamp. Yeah.

You know what I likened it to? It occurred to me. Remember those old straw holders, glass-cylinder straw holders? You pull the top and all the straws came up with it and you just pull one out?

Yeah.

That cylinder, it reminded me of that, but you would have pickles instead of straws.

With a handle, like an oil lamp handle?

Yeah.

All the ones I saw had handles, at least.

Right. You said that the pickle caster was associated with wealth, and it definitely was. But I saw in a site called Back to the Past Collectibles, they posted about pickle casters. The way they said it, pickles themselves were typically associated with rural areas. So if you were an urban, wealthy person and you had a pickle caster, you're saying, I love pickles. Obviously, I'm not making them myself. But I have staff and servants that are making it for me. Check out all of my pickles. That's how rich I am. So it's weird that it was a country thing, but in the city, it was a wealth thing.

Yeah, and I think that that fancy castor display had a lot to do with that.

Definitely.

But yeah, for sure, Rule, because people that farmed their own stuff and canned and preserved their own things and still do that stuff. I've told stories about my mom dragging me to the cannery when I was a kid. Of course, that's the people that are doing it themselves.

Exactly. You know who loved a pickle back then? The were-jur.

As far as commercial pickles that you can buy, like when they became a little more ubiquitous and affordable, H. J. Heinz, I was about to say canned up, but they were probably jarred originally in 1860 as the first widely available commercial pickle product. In 1893, there was this give away of a little pickle pendant at the World's Fair that year that was apparently so popular, it has gone down in history as one of the most popular marketing plays ever.

Yeah, I read about it in Atlas Obscura, and they said that the Heinz booth was hidden on the second floor somewhere. And so Heinz started giving out flyers saying, come get your free memento. And it was just such a hit. Everybody wanted a free pickle for some reason. Not even a real pickle, a little plastic pickle that said Heinz on it that they were worried that the floor was going to give because so many people just swamped that place for so long. It was a really big deal. It put Heinz on the map as a household word.

Yeah, we said plastic of that thing had to be.

Metal, right? No, I can't remember what they called it, but it was like a protoplastic.

Oh, wow.

Crumbly, weird looking. It looked like it was whittled from wood. Not a pretty pickle at all, but people had to have it, and they'd attached it to their watch chain or something like that and be like, Oh, this. This is my Heinz Pickle Tchotchky that I got at the 1893 World's Fair. I think it's.

A great time for a break. Okay. All right, we'll be right back with a Tchotchky joke.

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When Walter Isaacson set out to write his biography of Elon Musk, he believed he was taking on a world-changing figure.

That night, he was deciding whether or not to allow Starlink to be enabled to allow a sneak attack on Crimea.

What he got was a subject who also sowed chaos and conspiracy.

I'm thinking it's idiotic to buy Twitter because he doesn't have a fingertips feel for social, emotional networks.

And when I sat down with Isaacson five weeks ago, he told me how he captured it all.

They have cans of spray paint, and they're just putting big X's on machines. And it's almost like kids playing on the playground. Just choose them up left, right, and center. And then like, Dr. Jekyl and Mr. Hyde, he doesn't even remember it. Getting to bars doesn't excuse being a total of. But I want the reader to see it in action.

My name is Evan Ratliff, and this is Ayn Musk with Walter Isaacson. Join us in this four-part series as Isaacson breaks down how he captured a vivid portrait of a polarizing genius. Listen to Ayn Musk on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, as promised, we're back, and I promise you a Tchotchky joke. When I was in Mexico City, we went to the Leon Trotsky's house as part of the Frida Kahlo Casa Azul tour.

I have a feeling I know where.

This is going. You know right where it's going because my friend Tommy in the gift shop said, Look at all these Trotsky tchotchkys.

That.

Became a fun thing that we said all weekend.

Oh, I bet.

We said that a lot, and we said, One more margarita a lot.

Yeah, I bet.

So Pickles, H. J. Heinz, in 1860 did his thing. Klaesson came around 10 years later in 1870, Mount Oliver in 1926. And the old stork with the Vlasik Pickle is the relative newcomer on the block, didn't start until 1942.

Yeah, the stork who spoke like Groucho Marks for some weird reason.

No, it's because Groucho Marks was the hottest thing going back then.

I guess. So if you want to make pickles, I've made pickles before, and I love making pickles. It's one of the most rger things you can do in your kitchen, no matter where you are. And it's very, very easy depending on what pickle you want to make.

All right, what are you doing?

I'm making salt brine pickles, which is called lacto fermenting, because what you're doing is creating a brine that actually encourages the growth of beneficial probiotic bacteria. And they go to town eating the sugars and the cucumber, and thus preserving it, but at the same time putting out lactic acid, which prevents dangerous bacteria from growing in your pickle brine. As long as your pickles are under the surface of the brine and they make little glass disks to weight them down, it's really neat. Then you can basically put the thing in the fridge and leave it for I think a few weeks, 30 days, I think was the minimum, and pull them out. And you have these strange tasting pickles. They don't taste like the pickles you're normally used to because it's a different way to make them than the stuff you buy off the shelf at the grocery store.

All right, so that's the salt brine?

Yes, salt brine or lacto fermented.

All right, you've also got your classic dill. You're going to use white vinegar for those. And then all of these, generally, except for your salt brining method, have some vinegar, usually white vinegar. And then the spices are where that particular variety of pickle gets its flavor. So in the case of a dill, you're going to have mustard seed, you're going to have dill, obviously, hopefully some fresh and some dried dill. That white vinegar, some white sugar, salt, obviously. And I think that's it, right?

Yeah. I mean, you can get really creative with pickles. You can make them hot, you can make them garlicy, you can add whatever you want. But basically, the split between different types of pickles, whether you use a vinegar brine or a salt brine. And the vinegar brine doesn't allow for beneficial bacteria to grow. So it's not a probiotic like lacto-fermented pickles or kimchi or sautraut, those are all salt brine. But the vinegar brine pickles still have health benefits. They found that it actually reduces or steadies your blood sugar, and it can last for a while. It's not just like you're eating the pickle and your blood sugar is okay, and then you finish the pickle and it goes crazy. It has a lasting effect from vinegar. So no matter what pickles you're eating, you're getting some benefit from it.

All right. Well, you also get your bread and butter pickle. That's the one out of any pickle, that sounds the most appetizing to me. Even though I think the name of this episode will be pickles, colon, how to ruin a good cucumber. Because I love a puke.

I feel the exact opposite. I'm like, Get that disgusting thing out of my face. Unless it's pickles. What? You don't like cucumber? No.

Oh, man, I love a cucumber.

No, it's like, how can something be tasteless and taste disgusting at the same time? It's a mystery.

Wow.

Really? I can't stand cucumber. Maybe a cucumber water, if it's got lemon or basil or something in it, but there better not be actual cucumberes floating around in it.

Wow. Okay.

All.

Right. You ever try it with just a little pinch.

Of sea salt? Yes, they're gross.

You don't like them in.

A salad? I don't like cucumberes at all. That is remarkable. Unless, again, if they're pickles, I love them.

You hate cucumber and love pickles. I love cucumber and hate pickles.

We are yin-and-yan if we're nothing, Chuck.

Well, maybe that's why we work. So the bread and butter is the white vinegar, salt, white sugar, I think more white sugar than the dill. And then you've got some celery, some turmeric, some garlic, some onion, and some red chili flakes.

Yeah, there's loads of sugar and bread and butter because the two flavor profiles are sweet and tangy. It's a strange combination, but if you're in the mood for it, a good bread and butter pickle is pretty good.

And apparently, the tradition of ruining your sandwich platter, or even worse, if they wrap up a pickle and a sandwich wrapper to go beside the sandwich, unforgivable.

I don't know what you're talking about. I know what you're saying. I don't understand how it's unforgivable. It makes no sense because pickles are so great.

That started in New York deli, specifically Jewish deli. Jewish immigrants started in the 1930s offering dill pickles as a pallet cleanser because that acid helps contrast with that maybe that fatty meat sandwich you're eating, and it's got a nice little crunch to it. I do like a crunch, but that's why I love cucumber. They crunch. I didn't think pickles, I thought they were less crunchy because they're soaked in garbage.

No, that's the wrong kind. So if you have non-crunchy pickles and you're buying them off the shelf, they were baked or they were cooked essentially, boiled in a water bath. That doesn't actually boil, but it kills off any beneficial bacteria that might have been in it because it kills it with temperature. And it also makes the pickles themselves flimsy. If you have lacto, fermented salt brine pickles, there's your crunchy pickle. And those can be done with little enough salt that you get what's called a half sour. And it tastes much more like a cucumber than a normal pickle does. So I think you should try a half sour.

Dill pickle. You know what? I'm going to try one because do those have vinegar at all?

No, they're salt brined, as far as I know.

All right, maybe I should try that because the vinegar, I'm on record, is the vinegar is part of the problem. I don't like a lot of white vinegar. Yeah. And apple cider vinegar is pretty rough. I do like balsamic vinegar and things like that. It's very specific.

You're.

Complex. And I'm picky.

Is that it?

I think that's it. I just wanted to get real at the end. Is that.

How we're going to end the episode?

Yeah, Chuck is needy and picky.

All right, well, then short stuff is out.

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