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[00:00:06]

Do the trashy pulp novels of the world have anything to offer our best sellers, all they're cracked up to be here, a terrible book club.

[00:00:13]

We explore whether you really can judge a book by its cover or its ridiculous synopsis of past a book and thought I was reading this.

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We probably are.

[00:01:06]

Hello and welcome to Episode ninety, one of the Terrible Book Club, I'm Paris and this is Chris. Hello. This time we read The Little Stranger by Sarah Waters at the request of our patron, Veronica. Veronica said that she expected this book to be, quote, Downton Abbey with ghosts, unquote, but was disappointed in how that concept was executed. If this is your first time listening to the show, what we do here, book club, is we read books that we assume will be bad based on their cover title summary, some combination of those three or based on a recommendation from a friend or patron, as we're doing today.

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So we do the opposite of what most people do when they are in a bookstore or if they're browsing online for an e-book. Usually this experiment results in a disappointing and hilarious read up a once in a while. We do actually end up liking the book for content warnings. Today we have our usual barnyard language. Plus we've got some classism. Dog on child violence, euthanasia, ghosts, mental illness, maybe a touch of some light British countryside, racism, fucking our our good friend sexual assault that just fucking say, oh, yeah, there it is again.

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God can't get away. No, we thought we were safe. We thought we were safe. It was. Oh, oh, sorry. Sorry. One more. And this is actually important. The final content warning for today is suicide. So there's just a lot of dark themes today. The salty bit is like, yeah, it's not the worst all.

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I'm not going to finish that sentence, but.

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Well, it's it's I just want to put it out there just in case. But it's yeah.

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It's it's like the people having a misunderstanding. Not great. But anyway, moving on. So the summary of the little stranger is this. One postwar summer in his home of rural Warwickshire, Dr. Faraday, the son of a maid who has built a life of quiet respectability as a country position, is called to a patient at Lonely Hall, home to the his family. For over two centuries. The Georgian house, once impressive and handsome, is now in decline.

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Its masonry crumbling, its gardens choked with weeds, the clock and its stable yard permanently fixed at twenty to nine. Its owners, mother, son and daughter, struggling to keep pace with the changing society as well as with conflicts of their own.

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But are the heirs haunted by something more sinister than a dying way of life? Little does Dr. Faraday know how closely and how terrifyingly their story is about to become intimately entwined with his.

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Not sure if I said Warwickshire, right. Warwickshire, Warwickshire. I don't know.

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Just just skip all that. If you're not careful, the bobbies will come after you. Paris. Yes. Yeah.

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Um, what's all this then? You can't pronounce Warwickshire the proper way. Oh wow.

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You can't do a British accent at all. No, I didn't try one last episode.

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I mean, I clearly, I clearly I can't do that either unless I was approved.

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We might have to do a little bit of that, considering most of this book is like how dreadfuls and my goodness and I know all that kind of thing.

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So if you really dig, like, you know, upper class Brits in a post-war period clutching their pearls a lot, and maybe this is for you.

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Yeah. With some light glossiness. Yeah. So are our characters and our setting. We've talked about setting.

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It's pretty much everything happens at Hundreds Hall, which is a fictional estate in Warwickshire, England, and the only other real setting, there's like a party one time there's a couple of scenes in the doctor's car and then at the doctors kind of like practice and his house playing dispensary's.

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So in my head I was like, oh, he's selling weed. Well, it's no is not the case. No, but it's like, you know, it's like his farm, the pharmacy part of the of the practice. But yes. But most, most, most shit happens to all our characters are Doctor Faraday. He is our narrator and also the main character we have Colonel Ayres, he fucking he's like dead already. It's sort of the story.

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So fuck him, Mrs Ayres.

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I forget her first name calling Mrs Ayres Rodrik Carolyn Susan, who is dead by the time the story begins. And then Gipp the dog and Mrs Fuck is it.

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Bailey Mrs Fuck no Mrs F Dash.

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Yeah, well that moment isn't Mrs Mrs Bailey or Beesley God Wiki's Lee. I just finished this last night, Mrs Beasley, Mrs Beasley and the other servant girl. Betty. Betty. Thank you. Bees. Bees. The bees is not the bees. The bees. No it's not Beasley. You're wrong. It's Beasley.

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No you're wrong. What is this.

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I think it's, I don't know. I read it as Beasley all the time so that's my head.

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Cannon better. It's Baisley.

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OK, well it's Beesley to me. So Fazli you're going to hear me say Beasley this whole podcast's.

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You know what sounded namesake's Baisley. I don't.

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You know what I'm rewriting reality to fit my perspective because that's what we can do. That's what we do in America. Yeah. All right. All right. So and then there's maybe a ghost or something.

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I don't know. We'll talk about it. Could be. Yeah.

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Uh. So it's haunted house trouble family, Paris, how you think Haunted House, Troubled Family, Crimson Peak, you remember that haunting of the haunting of Hill House. You remember. I don't know. The fall of the house of Usher. There's so many of these troubled family haunted house books. Yeah. It's there to be a troubled house in a haunted family.

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Well, this house is also troubled because it's fucking falling apart at the seams.

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And that's like the major issue in the book for the most part is, oh, no, we're going to lose the estates. We only have two servants. The indignity. Yeah.

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So it's the 1940s. It's after, you know.

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After war, and, yeah, it's just the family who's the main focus of this, the heirs there. Yeah, they're just they're upper class British, like white British family that is just wholly concerned with their appearance and how their mansion is falling into disrepair.

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And it's it's they're just not characters that I found I couldn't like them, and that was kind of a big problem with me for the book, like just my personal issue. I just couldn't like them.

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But anyhow, we should probably just go try to be a little bit sympathetic with it. I mean, Roderic suffered what the book keeps describing as a smash during the war.

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So, yeah, he had he was a pilot or he was an airman of some kind and his plane went down the war and his his like companion or whatever died while he lived, even though he had some pretty bad burns and severe injury to his leg. That leaves him limping. That's Rodrik. Caroline is a sister who had to come back to the hall to take care of him when he returned and then their mother, Mrs. IR's. It's just kind of they're not really sure.

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Not sure why she couldn't take care of Rodrik, but she's not that old. She's like, what? In her 50s, maybe 60s, I think. Oh, still not really.

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Yeah, yeah. Not old and like not so old that she wouldn't be able to take care of someone. So I don't know. And the start of the book, we have Faraday being called to the house because Betty, their newest and youngest servant, I think she's like 14 or something or 15.

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You know, she's taken ill. Faraday gets there, calls her out on her bullshit is like, yo, what's the problem? You're not actually sick.

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And she's like, oh, I'm sorry, son.

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You know, whatever they have, they have a thing. He ends up kind of taking over as their doctor, even though he's not normally he only got called their because their normal physician was busy. And, you know, he takes a liking to the family. And for the first hundred and twenty pages, all he does is go there and like, hang out with them. And like, that doesn't mean I mean, yes, but like, he doesn't it actually says that he has a dislike of them a couple of times when he's hanging out over there.

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Right. Right at the beginning. Yeah. Yeah.

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Leads me to the question of why why are you coming back here all the time?

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And that's, I suppose, the sort of the whole crux of his character. Right. Is even he's asking himself, why do I keep coming back here with these people? I am from a lower class upbringing. I shouldn't be mixing with these people as much as I am. In fact, he has an old memory of when he was a child, when he was there because his mom was a maid there, that he stole a piece of like plastic molding that was shaped like a strawberry.

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It was a plaster plaster, not plastic. And it was an acre, not a strawberry. Well, yeah. Anyway, yeah. So he has fond memories of this grand house from when he was a child. And, you know, he goes back there and it's like, oh, I have these good memories, but at first he doesn't really like them and he doesn't. He's like, yeah, I know I'm too poor to really be hanging out here.

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So it's just one memory of him, like going to a party or something. Yeah. For for a party that they had and his mom brought him.

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But yeah. And at the first count, the first hundred and I want to say it was like one hundred and twenty pages or hundred and ten or something. It's like nothing really happens. That's kind of it. I does he even start with he starts treating Rodricks leg for free so he could write a paper on this new like electrical treatment for damaged muscles basically. But I think that's the only thing that really happens.

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He just keeps showing up and being like, yeah, I'm here, I'm here again.

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We're going to just t we're just doing, you know, doing fine up here up and tall with your big empty rooms and your two servants. Yeah. OK, I guess I'll come back tomorrow and bug you guys again. This is really just a way to sort of get more background info on the family. You learn a little bit more about Rodricks injuries. You get a little bit more insight into Carolyn's personality.

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As someone who was a little bit No-Nonsense, got a decent head on her shoulders, it seems for the most part, even though in fact, I think even here you can tell that Faraday is kind of hanging around for her a little bit, even though he's telling himself that he isn't in there.

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Yeah.

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And isn't attracted to her. Yeah. And here's here's the thing about Faraday. You kind of learn that he might be a slightly unreliable narrator just because.

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Yeah, he's always telling us on the pages like, oh, she's such a plain big boned, horse faced woman or whatever.

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He says that horse face. She says some things about her not being attractive many times. And then as the book goes on, you know, that changes, although I mean, this really just feels like we live in a small town and there's no one else to date. So I'm just going to cling to the first woman who talks to me. I think there's ulterior motive here. We might get into later, but for the most part he yeah, he spent like every time Carolynn shows up next to him, he's talking about her thick ish legs and her flattish face.

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Yeah. And how she's relatively plain, especially for such good stock that she comes from.

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Yeah. So he's it's one of you mentioned when we were first reading this book that you kind of liked how pretty much everyone isn't described as beautiful or attractive. The ferret is always bringing up sort of the flaws or the things that you might not consider attractive or beautiful for both women and men on for the most part.

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Yeah.

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Even says that he is not particularly good looking and describes. Yeah. So it was really refreshing, at least for us to read a book where nobody was like nobody with some gorgeous person.

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Well, even then, he's still vain. And that that's the issue we had with people being, you know, the looks always being brought up in in the writing, in other books is it just seems so vain. And it's the same thing. But just from the opposite ends here.

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Right. He's pretty much always talking about like, oh, well, this is a little messed up. The chin ain't great over here. He's got burns on his face.

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He's really just like instantly judging people all the time.

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Well, I also think that as a doctor, it's it's what he does. He's supposed to look at people and assess their appearance for signs of malady.

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I think he even mentions that at some point in the book. And and I remember thinking, like, oh, that does make some sense. But yeah, I mean, he's still a kind of a jerk about it in his internal monologue. Yeah. Anyway, it's nice to read a book where no one's falling in love at first sight with some beautiful made in or hot dude. It definitely this book definitely feels like British weather does, you know, it's dreary and brai probably raining or just rained and nothing's super great.

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I mean, that's Sarah understrength here, right in the tone setting and her ability to write in a way that for a little bit while I was reading the first part of this book because I didn't check like the published data or anything, it was like, is this a recent book?

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Was this written? Yeah. Back like in the post-war period, more specifically because of the thing we brought up a couple of minutes ago, which I think it's a good time to bring up now, even though. Oh, yeah, no.

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I mean, it was written it was published in 2009, so. Yeah, but really.

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So the thing that kind of made me have this thought was the fact that people will curse in this book.

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They'll say shit and damn and hell, I don't I don't know if they say shit.

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They definitely say that there is zero results for shit.

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OK, well, I guess that might be off limits, but there's one word that's definitely off limits and that's fuck you can't say fuck in this book. I couldn't tell.

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Were the characters censoring their own selves or was it Sarah Waters censoring the F word to make it seem as if this book was written in the period she said it in, like they could?

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Could you print fucking your fucking books? I do it, yeah. I don't think that this was like James Joyce had that a bunch. Yeah, yeah.

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This is this is definitely not a leftover thing from a past era of publishing. That is not the case. This is just weird. Yeah. She censor the F word. I don't know. Like for example it says just give me back my F dash g cufflinks will you. Don't get your hands off me don't you. F g well tell me how to behave. And it was just so disrupting.

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It was it wasn't the characters doing right. Yeah. Well who the hell are you anyway. Who the fuck are you. I mean it only happens four times but it was so disruptive to the mood and and my experience of the story, I was like, what the fuck? Why would you censor this? So I don't know if I, like, accidentally bought a censored copy or something like, I don't know, very odd Kindle for children. Yeah, I got that one.

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Well, but like, the only other curse word in it is damn, which isn't even I don't know that I'd even call it a curse word so people might call hell.

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Oh yeah. Yeah. You're particularly sensitive. That's true. Hels in there. Yeah. So Amena.

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Oh my freaking years ago here. I mean and but the story discusses some, you know, some difficult topics, so I don't understand what the point is.

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A big mystery with the writing style, like everything else, is perfectly serviceable except this one little burr amongst the rest of it that I just don't. Why?

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Yeah, I should have a personal thing against writing the F word, but still wants to use it.

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I yeah, it's really no idea. I don't know, and also if they were if they were sent self censoring of the characters themselves were saying like f ing or something, wouldn't you write it f i n g or like f dash i n g like the f dash. Just G is a strange choice. I o I spent a solid two minutes just trying to decipher this one part of the book because it's really just the most baffling part of the writing.

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Yeah.

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It was, it was very odd. And like I said, the reason I think we're both hung up on it is because it's just so disruptive to this book that Sarah Waters has clearly put so much effort into, you know, into the tone.

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Yeah.

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So it's disruptive because it had me thinking that it was this book published at a time where they could print the F word, which I know to not be true, I, I don't know.

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Yeah. So anyway, back to the story. So our main plot points, you know, Faraday gets called to the house because Betty Sick and their usual doctor can't make it. He then, you know, he kind of doesn't like them, but he ends up going back there to like I think he runs into Carolyn and then they, you know, whatever keeps going back there because I don't know, he's fucking bored. They live in a small town, whatever.

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He starts helping Rodrik with his leg because Roger has again, it's not really clear. You know, he he had there was a plane crash. He had some burns on his face and his one of his legs was fucked up in some way. We're not really sure what the exact injury was, but but it was some kind of muscular thing. So Faraday starts doing this electrical treatment on him and writes a paper about it. So he does it for free because he knows that even though they're you know, they're from the upper class, their wealth is waning pretty severely.

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So they only afford two servants. I know. So they develop. So he kind of develops the some uneasy friendship with the family because he's going over there time and time again to work on, you know, rodricks like, um and, you know, finally on page, I don't know, 110 or 120 or something. There's a party. They decide to throw a party. And we we realize it's because Mrs Ara's really wants Caroline to meet someone and get married because, you know, she's an old ass spinster at twenty six.

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So, you know, I think the average age people get married was still like around 25 back then. So I don't really think that Vibs, I mean, you know, still getting up there probably in terms.

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Of course I know, but I don't think that's true at all.

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I'm pretty sure the average age of marriage has consistently hovered around like 25 for women for quite a while.

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It's it's one of those things that you wouldn't think so. But for no, no.

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I think for men, you're right. But for women, they're always about five years older. I would say the average age of like women being married is probably 20 anyway. Whatever. Anyway, they kind of she refers to herself as a spinster. And there is there is a light discussion of her, like needing to be married or something. So plus the family, you know, needs money. So they have this party. They invite just a handful of their acquaintances from the town there.

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And of course, this guy that, you know, Caroline's supposed to try to talk to and Faraday goes and and there's this whole fool. They invited Faraday not as the doctor, but as a guest. Oh, the scandal. The scandal. You know, like that's like the big scandal. You know, like quarter of the way through the book, you're like, fuck me. Is something ever going to happen in this book? It's just who.

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So finally, the party is happening. It's not great. It's just kind of happening. No one's having a super time. Some people are talking this last saloon room that they had just off to the side that was described as having like old yellow wallpaper and ugly furniture.

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Yeah. So even the setting isn't that great. And they've had to, like, dust everything off and try to make everything look nice or nicer than it is really to try to, I guess, hook this.

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He was part of a like a more upper class or a family that's doing better.

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Yeah. Family office. Right. A family that has more money than they do.

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Yeah. It was a hyphenated last name that I forgot. The Parker Hydes. Baker. Hi. Baker Hydes. Yeah, you're right.

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I think I think the guy was like a cousin to the Baker Hydes or something like he was the harpsichord.

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Do they had a harpsichord in the middle of the room and he was jamming on it like one of those douches that brings the acoustic guitar out except he's Jam and Wonderwall and a harpsichord.

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I do say today will be the day that I'm going to come back to you.

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Oh, oh. Oh, wow. Now, you know, I'm not. I'm not going. Oh. So painful. So, you know, this whole I do say maybe I feel like going down and Baradei has a realization that maybe he actually likes Caroline a little bit because he realizes that the party was thrown to, you know, maybe get her betrothed.

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And he was like, oh, fuck, do I like this woman? That's not pretty.

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Like, that's kind of a body has. And I was like, oh, so heartbreaking. What a dick. So then the baker, the Baker Hydes have their young daughter with them. And, you know, she's kind of their primary amusement, you know. Oh, cute child. You know, she's little a little annoying as children are, but she is entertaining people just by being a child. And then she goes over to the family dog, Jip, who Caroline loves.

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It's Caroline's dog. And they've had them for her for a long time. He's an older dog, you know, he's clearly an elderly dog. He's got gray on his muzzle. And, you know, he's described as being elderly. And the girl and the dog are over by the window, kind of like behind the harpsichord where no one can see them. And suddenly there's like, you know, it's obvious that the dog is attacking her, the dog bites her face, and it's so bad that she immediately needs stitches.

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So Faraday is there and takes her down to the kitchen and stitches up her face. And this turns into the just the biggest scandal of the of the year. And the bake, the baker hides are fucking pissed and they inevitably force the heirs to euthanize Porntip, even though Gipp has never been aggressive, he's always a sweetheart, even even when he is described, even when he's described in the text, kind of in, you know, institue or whatever, like as it's happening.

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And then he's also described anecdotally as being very sweet and never having struck out against anyone. You know, the ears are like, what the fuck? We should have put this dog down. But, of course, you know, high society, British shit, they, of course, have to. And Ferriday is the one who has to put them down. And luckily, he doesn't shoot him. He just gives them some.

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I forget what he gives them some over unspecific anesthetic that he euthanizes.

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Gipp within the saddest scene in the book, the one that actually got me because the writing in that scene was pretty good, I would say, especially the use of the word trust in the dog's eyes as we Charoen was handing him off to Faraday pretty much, which was absolutely heart wrenching for me because, you know, putting animals down, especially animals that don't medically have a need to be put down, is sadder.

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And I had a lot of trouble reading that scene and that.

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But play spoiler alert in the rest of this book, a lot of people die, too. I didn't feel much.

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Yeah, yeah, I agree. Let's see.

[00:26:01]

I'm trying to find basically the start of these inklings that something might be afoot in the House, because earlier in the story, when Faraday even first comes to visit Betty, she mentions that there's something she feels is if there's something evil in the house or something lurking around the corner is waiting for her or something like that. And some of that suspicion gets brought up in this case again, because, you know, Gipp is normally sweet and I forget exactly how Carolyn gets it in her head.

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But I think even at this point, she is like something weird must have happened. It's this house.

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There's something in this house that is I don't know if she says I don't know that she says there's something in the house, but she just thinks that she knows she thinks that the the child is the one that caused the issue. Someone starts Birbal and probably Betty actually that night.

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I honestly don't I don't think that this is when I don't know anyway. It doesn't super matter. But do you want me to read the passage you were talking about with the dog?

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I don't know if I want to actually know.

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OK, all right. We'll skip that part of the part of today's program. All right. Yeah. So fair to ask. Put the dog down. It's a pretty upsetting. And I just remember my no my no in that section was God, goddamn it, they're killing the one character I actually cared about.

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I know. Same here.

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I was like every time Git popped up in a scene, I would act as if I'm, you know, really in a space with this family of people that I just like very much. At least the dog is there and I can hang around with the dog. Yeah, exactly. Chips in the scene, by the way, that's not a great name for a dog either.

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Just let's mention that right here.

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Yeah, I. Oh, so they never fully expanded the name but it's spelled G. Why P and I can we can all guess. No that's what that is.

[00:27:51]

We can all guess a bit of that light country races. Yeah. So. And what just in case I'm being a little too obtuse, what I mean is that GWP is likely a shortened form of Gypsie, which is, you know, not a cool thing to say.

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So I don't know. But maybe it's not maybe maybe maybe it's a coincidence. I don't know.

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I don't probably know based on how the rest of the family feels about their estate being sold off in portions and housing being built where their gardens used to be, which is all very upset about it.

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Yeah, you know what? They're having their suburban lifestyle dreams taken from them.

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Oh, if they only survive like another 80 years. Yeah. And lived in the U.S. and literally like that.

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But here's let's actually hop on this subject for a second of how fuckin dislikable this family is, because I mean, especially in our current times where, you know, upper class people aren't the most sympathetic looking at the moment.

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These are people that are literally complaining.

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Most of the book about, oh, no, our giant garden that we used to frolic through his children is being sold off because we need the money so that they're going to build 24 homes for twenty four families here. How terrible. It'll ruin the view.

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Yeah, hang on. Let me let me read a I got a good I got a good mark here. It just makes it so hard to relate to this family and maybe that's authorial intent there. You're not supposed to really like the ears. I can't imagine anyone sympathizing with them, especially after like Miss Ayres. Mrs. Ayres goes off a little bit about these low class people moving in here.

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Yeah, let me let me I have have a good no, I just want to read from this passage, but it's being really slow, so it's going to require some editing on your part.

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OK, you shouldn't take it so personally. There are probably a hundred landowners in England and exactly your position all doing just what you've done today. There are probably a thousand, he answered, but without much force. All the fellows I used to know at school and all the chaps I used to fly with every time I hear from one of them, they're telling the same story. Most of them have run through their settlements already. Some are having to take jobs.

[00:30:13]

Their parents are living on their nerves. I opened a newspaper this morning. A bishop was sounding off about the shame of the German. Why doesn't anyone write a piece on the shame of the Englishman, the ordinary, hard working man with no jobs, who since the war has had to watch his property and income vanishing like so much smoke. Meanwhile, grubby little businessmen like Bob are doing all right. And men without land, without family. Well, the eyes of the county on them.

[00:30:38]

Men like the bloody baker hide and he abruptly stops with my note. There was all European lives matter. I mean to sympathize with these. Yeah, it's just rants like that, like, oh, why doesn't anyone. Why won't someone think of the English, please think of the English. Our upper class lifestyle is fading away. I might have to sell my giant mansion and little regular house like they're building next to it where my gardens used to be.

[00:31:11]

Chris, I may have to get a job. No, no. Heavens, how dreadful heavens. Yeah. So my business, it's just that for four hundred and sixty seven page, all the girls are clutched as tightly to the body as possible.

[00:31:25]

Yeah.

[00:31:26]

The pearls are actually they're actually becoming subdermal implants at this point, burrowing beneath the skin. They're being clutch so tightly. I guess Carolyn is the least bad about this, but she displays a little bit of oh no, the estate.

[00:31:41]

And we only have to serve like the two. Only having a couple of servants kept getting me wrong.

[00:31:46]

I mean, they're paying them. So it's a job, I suppose. But at the same time, she's like, oh, no, I have to do the cleaning myself.

[00:31:58]

Yeah. Fuckin welcome to the club. Yeah.

[00:32:02]

So I think it's just hard for for Chris and I to really, you know, with the backgrounds we have, it's really hard to read this.

[00:32:09]

Well, you know, I somewhat land owning in a way for me, so I'm not like too far removed. Yes. Chris, of the of the land reviews on Family of Dorchester. My family owns a house. Right. Which is a step above their own, too, right.

[00:32:27]

No. Well. One in America, yeah, I feel castles in Romania.

[00:32:35]

No, I'm kidding, but yeah, my point being is like I'm not necessarily too far off from this type of person. If I hired, like, a cleaning person to clean my house. Same thing.

[00:32:46]

Chris, no, no, no. This is not even close.

[00:32:49]

Yeah, but I'm not, like, running a farm out the back and like, I don't have huge acres to sell off in portions.

[00:32:55]

Well, and you also don't have an upbringing like they do where they were raised, as you know, to believe that they were better than other people and that there was a, you know, kind of a strict sense of class. Anyway, I do want to say, although we didn't like any one in this book, really the the writing of the character's speech and thoughts like the dialogue and the internal the dialogue, both external and internal, I feel we're both brilliant, brilliantly meticulous for the period.

[00:33:38]

I mean, it's definitely like Chris said, you know, this felt like we were in 19th, the 1940s in England among the gentry or the upper class. Like I mean, there are just a lot of really particular details, the way that certain people spoke. And it it didn't come off. It didn't come off as unrealistic. It comes off as very realistic for the time, for the place in time. So, again, I think I think that the author did a really great job of kind of capturing the the speech and tone of that, you know, that time and place that she was writing for.

[00:34:19]

It's most definitely her major strength, I would say. And she has a lot of other books that I'm sure that some of them are also set in similar times or maybe, you know, even different things. I'm sure that is probably her major strength based on what I saw here. And it's, you know, if you're looking for that sort of. Period piece feel, if you're into that, this might be for you, but the rest of it is just so by the numbers in a way.

[00:34:46]

Yeah, and I also just can't stand like we've talked about this before, like how I know when we start reading a new terrible book club book and I you know, I know immediately whether or not it's another rich white people book because they'll start dwelling on particular architectural details and technical plant names will combine those two things combined means that this is a rich white person book.

[00:35:10]

And that happened like almost immediately. I was like, fuck no, no, I'm talking about the Ivy in the particular way.

[00:35:18]

Certain rooms are arranged in the lines of the rooms and how quaint, you know.

[00:35:24]

Well, and this is another thing. Sorry, I don't don't want to I just want to get at least through some real plot points since, you know, we're a quarter of the way through. And all that's happened is a dog bit a kid in the face. So that happens if the dog down then Rodrik starts well during the Rodrik never shows up for the party. And at first everyone just thinks it's because he had a dreadful headache and didn't feel well.

[00:35:50]

But Faraday eventually discovers that he had he experienced something supernatural and bizarre in his room and that's why he didn't come out that night. And since that incident, he has been he has become increasingly nervous and anxious, having panic attacks on being unable to sleep, seeing things. You know, Faraday asked him for the story. And what Rodrik describes is really extraordinary because at first it was just things like he would get up in the night to go to the bathroom and there would be an ottoman like a very large, heavy ottoman that, you know, was on one side of the room, would suddenly be in his path and he would fall over.

[00:36:28]

And so he had hurt himself a few times through some incidents. And then probably the the most extreme one was when he was getting ready for the party that night, he was shaving and he couldn't he couldn't find his cufflinks. And then when he was shaving his shaving mirror, like basically walked off of the the table and then flew at him and broke and cut his face. And his cufflinks dropped from thin air behind him like he he watched them through the mirror before the mirror broke, like just be dropped from thin air above, like from the top of the room and into into his like shaving water or whatever.

[00:37:13]

And so yeah, that's pretty fucking weird.

[00:37:16]

And also set the tone for what I assume the rest of the haunting would be here, which is, is that we're just doing a beauty and the beast thing here and all of the little or a particular objects in the room.

[00:37:28]

We're just trying to come to life and help him with a big will be our guest song.

[00:37:32]

No, but yeah, lately they now have the vocal chords to do it, yet they weren't animated enough. They're still getting their legs, so they like real good. They just trip and fall and throw themselves at Roger Roderic accidentally.

[00:37:46]

Yeah, honestly, that would have been a much, much better interpretation of this book because Rodrik is super stressed because he's, you know, the man of the house as the sun, like the only living male. And he's the one who has to deal with all the finances and running the farm that they're not very good at because they're rich people and he's extremely stressed out all the time about it. And so, you know, the stress of running the house and, you know, in his injury that he is always ashamed of and annoyed by, you know, yeah, maybe maybe the house was like, all right, time to come to life.

[00:38:23]

These people need our help. They can only afford two servants. We got a we got time for us to step up this time to be ah, it's time for that to be our goal and service. Do that as a mirror and now I'm falling.

[00:38:37]

Oh oh oh oh. Well then the hunt at the service down to the next part of the haunting is they see a lot of burn marks in the room.

[00:38:53]

So that's really the candle stick guy. What was it. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. That's just Lumière. Try and you know hop around and help things out because then things get spontaneously set on fire.

[00:39:04]

So you must not run from the outside. Yeah. It's just them. Yeah. You know if I can get a little carried away with this flame it's just getting used to being animated.

[00:39:17]

Still a little awkward. Yeah.

[00:39:19]

You know, falling a lot. Can't, can't be in the way they were trying to bring him the cufflinks. Yeah I know. I tripped and fell. Just helpful ghost behaviour man. Some a little accident.

[00:39:30]

So what if I set multiple fires in your room. You put it out.

[00:39:34]

So before the before the you know. Conflagration happens in Rodricks room, he notices that there are tiny black smudges, perhaps burn marks on or near all of the items that he experienced moving or flying into him or whatever. So he shows Carolann and he's like all of these smudges are where weird shit happened to me.

[00:39:59]

There has to be a connection.

[00:40:00]

And I remember at that point, I was like, well, why would a ghost put a smudge? Like, there would only be a smudge if someone if a human was trying to do something magical. Right. If they were like marking things, you know.

[00:40:15]

You know, it's like the miasma coming through at that point of the house, because Faraday also mentions how this and other things that pop up in the house later look as if they're coming from under the finish on the wood. It's like they're coming from under it and they're just because you can't rub anything out or anything like that.

[00:40:33]

So to me that, you know, if there was a possible ghost, it would have been this is the point of contact from Ghost World. And when you do it, you burn through the word a little bit. Right.

[00:40:45]

And so the and the the servants are like, yeah, those marks weren't there before. Like, they're like, yeah, we're sure, you know. And everyone's like, how fucking weird. And then I don't know, a few days or weeks go by and then Roderick's room is just on fire and he is just lying in his bed, not moving, not getting out, trying to save himself. But luckily they end up putting the fire out.

[00:41:07]

Caroline ends up putting the fire out and they you know, they save Rodrik, but they all have smoke inhalation, like, you know, and Rodrik is more disturbed than ever. And Faraday is convinced that he's lost his mind because of all the stress, the injury, you know, the stress of both the injury coming back from a war, you know, not yourself, as a lot of people may feel, quote unquote, not whole, even though that's not something I subscribe to.

[00:41:34]

And also having to manage the estate and also the recent disfigurement of a child. Yes.

[00:41:41]

On his property, even though he wasn't there for it, he probably still feels somewhat guilty about that, too. And yeah, he doing also facially disfigured.

[00:41:50]

It could, you know, be thought of as something that might trigger some bad mental episodes.

[00:41:57]

And in fact, there's a is this the part where they call up the doctor to, you know, describe how Rodrik has been feeling and the doctor goes, well, is there anything that could have set him off recently?

[00:42:12]

And they all go now? No, I don't see what could possibly set him off in the never mind the recent disfigurement of a child on the property or the fire that God set or the objects that he saw moving or the financial stress that he is under or his injury, which he has been receiving some treatment for, which I was variable of.

[00:42:35]

Yeah. Like all of these things could possibly have set him up.

[00:42:37]

Right. And so and so because of all of those things, I well, while I was reading it, I was like, OK, seems pretty likely that either that I thought someone in the house was was cause it was like doing this stuff. I thought maybe it was Caroline actually, because I thought that she wanted, like, control of the estate. But that isn't what happened. But it just seemed like very practical reasons for him to kind of lose his mind a bit.

[00:43:11]

So I just thought he lost his mind and that Caroline was trying to make him lose his mind, you know, and it worked.

[00:43:19]

But then after he gets fucking committed, like wilfully like he wants to get out of there because he thinks he is the one possibly setting the fires or causing harm to the house and possibly his, you know, relatives. So he wants to be taken away. Yeah.

[00:43:38]

He doesn't want to go to sleep because he thinks when he goes to sleep, the bad stuff happens. Yeah. He thinks it's basically like a poltergeist that's that's set on him or being fuelled by him or something. So, yeah, he he agrees to be committed and Ferriday is all about committing him. Wow. Waste. Wow. So, so quickly like from one page to the next, he's like, well I don't think I'd commit him because he's not a he's not a harm to others or to himself than a few pages later he's like, oh yeah, we definitely got to commit him.

[00:44:05]

Like, OK, he's talking about all this ghost stuff.

[00:44:07]

We clearly it's for his own good. Yeah. So that was disappointing. And then after that. He ends up spending more time with Caroline, they they go to a party together and they dance together, and it's pretty clear that he's super into her at this point. And this is where they have the I'm sure I'm I'm sure I'm missing some stuff in here, but I don't know anyway. They they go to this party together. They afterwards, it seems clear that Caroline doesn't want to go home.

[00:44:52]

And so they drive together in the car to like a nearby lake to the house or something or a road that's near the house. And Caroline starts rubbing her feet against the side of his leg. And then Ferreti grabs her foot and then works his way up her leg. And then he leans in to kiss her and she almost kisses him. But then it's just at the last minute decides like she's not into this and she, you know, says tries to push him away.

[00:45:18]

But then he he's like, oh, I got caught up and like tried to hold her down. And I was like, oh, fuck. And then she had to kick him to get him away from her. And then, you know, he Ameet Ferriday is immediately like, oh, fuck, oh, god, I'm so sorry.

[00:45:32]

Like, I don't know what came over me. And so that, like, awkward shit happens.

[00:45:36]

And that's when I was like, God damn it, why is there I always, always be.

[00:45:41]

I was fully ready for, you know, as soon as that scene started up where she's as soon as she says, I'm sorry, I can't, I was like, oh, no, this book is going to do this to me again.

[00:45:50]

Just like every book for the past three or four months, I'm doing this podcast, seems to have a sexual assault seated it, but it ends up with just sort of a tussle in a way.

[00:46:02]

Yeah, it's just real unfortunate. Yeah. So it was bad. It was bad time for everyone. Ferriday Yeah. You know, men, they just can't control themselves.

[00:46:16]

Chris, you know, that's the no. You can run.

[00:46:21]

Yeah. But that's just, you know, sort of being served in this book. But, you know, it's again, I do I will say it's a pretty realistic interaction for those two people to have had. So and it doesn't go too far and get too graphic. So I think it's a reasonable depiction of a realistic thing that could happen. So I wasn't too bothered by it. But it was you know, it was like a big sigh when I realized what was happening.

[00:46:47]

Yeah. I can't get through one book. Nope.

[00:46:53]

Just how you can't get through life without it happening to you if you're a woman.

[00:47:00]

I don't know. I honestly, I feel like if you're a person because male sexual assault is drastically underreported. So let's just say humanity horribly fucked up moving on. So this is awkward.

[00:47:13]

Like he drops her off. There's like a kiss on the cheek and then.

[00:47:18]

Oh yeah, she kisses him like. Yeah, after, after that.

[00:47:21]

And then there's like a week or two of him just popping up and trying to like see if she's all right with him still or something. He's trying to like talk around Miss Ayres because she's always in the room and he keeps casting glances at Carolyn trying to read her mood for the most part. And she seems fairly standoffish.

[00:47:41]

Yeah. So two things kind of happen simultaneously. So you have a story now. Rodrik Rodricks been committed, so he's just like out of the game for the rest of the book, so forget about him. He is irrelevant. Taken out of the game, take him out of the game.

[00:47:58]

I think he took himself out the game. He did take us about the game. So it's we're now just really dealt with Faraday, some accessory doctor characters, Caroline and this Ayres and like I said, so simultaneously at this point in the book, you kind of have Faraday realizing he's really into Carolyn and they kind of date and like a really 1940s British way, which means they go for walks and like maybe kiss each other on the cheek or something if that they just have, like chats and walks and that's that's it.

[00:48:34]

I don't think we even go to a restaurant together.

[00:48:37]

So, you know, dinner together.

[00:48:39]

Yeah. I mean, they have dinner at the house together, but they've been doing that. But yeah. So, you know, courting her a little bit. And, you know, again, this is like sort of scandalous because oh, he's a lower class doctor. What is he doing. I think it's Haugesund his head more than anything.

[00:48:55]

Like it's just town gossip to everyone else and no one's really upset about it or anything. They're just like, oh, Faraday and Camilla, there's.

[00:49:03]

Well, yeah, because I guess for a while people were like us.

[00:49:06]

You're going to go for the mom of the daughter because he is he's between the ages of both of them. Caroline's twenty six.

[00:49:12]

The mother's in her 50s or 60s and he's in his he's forty maybe 40 something. Around their early 40s.

[00:49:21]

So, yeah, sorry, it's never it's never exactly specific, so giving it giving up, you know, the question of which one is going to go after is pretty roundly answered in the next segment of the book.

[00:49:34]

Oh, sorry, I didn't finish describing what was happening simultaneously so. Well, while Faraday and Carolyn are sort of developing this stilted pseudo romance, extremely awkward, dreamlike, awkward and like obviously.

[00:49:50]

Yeah, obviously a bad idea by 1940 standards, which I guess is like you reach for her hand and she kind of slides it away and then, oh, no, your whole spirit is crushed.

[00:50:00]

Yeah. So simultaneously, you also have Mrs. Eyre's seemingly going mad the same way Rodrik did, but like a different flavor of madness. So instead of moving objects and fires and smudges, Mrs. Eyre's starts, she she starts making comments about there being something in the house and how she hopes it's her her daughter, Susan, who died as a three year old eight year old, I think.

[00:50:32]

Oh, OK. Oh, I thought she was much younger than that now.

[00:50:35]

But anyway, a child, you know, Susan died as a child and that was before they had Caroline or Roderick. So Caroline Rodrik don't know Susan. In fact, they only ever found out about her because Caroline found a book that meant that Susan's name on it, like inscribed in it, and she had to ask her mom about it and, you know, didn't really say much.

[00:50:58]

But Mrs. Ayres is clearly, severely changed by losing her first child, so young. And she hopes that the goes to Susan and she starts they start finding S.S like the letter s scribbled into the wainscoting, scribbled into like behind cabinets and in dust and stuff. And then every time they find the S's, there's more of them. So the first time it's like just a couple of random S's. The second time it's like a series of three or four all together.

[00:51:36]

And the final time Mrs. Ara's finds writing that seemingly came from nowhere. It says, like Sookie, Esquire succubi. And I was I didn't understand what that was. And then late, like you kind of threw the text. You learn that Sookie was a nickname for Susan. So so it seems like there's a ghost child writing her name on things as children do.

[00:52:04]

There's also like pattering noises in different parts of the house. At one point, people or the Carolyn and the servants are following a noise around the house. That sounds like someone maybe running across different parts of the hall or someone knocking or tapping on something.

[00:52:18]

Yeah, they finally decide it's like a bird in the chimney, even though it's not there.

[00:52:21]

These like servants call bells that are wired up to different parts of the house that will go off randomly. And there's also like there's also like a telephone system within the house.

[00:52:33]

No, it's it's not a telephone. It's it's called bells. And then there's the like a speaking tube. It's, you know, same thing to me.

[00:52:44]

I know it's a different mechanism. One or the other one's a wire. Yeah, it's different.

[00:52:48]

But but so then the bells will go off at random and Faraday even inspects the mechanical aspect of it and finds nothing wrong. So everyone's getting a little bit more touchy and nervous about these happenings. Carolyn, I think, is becoming increasingly more convinced that there is something up. Meanwhile, Mrs. IR's is fully convinced that it is Susan.

[00:53:10]

Indeed. Yeah. And she's actually kind of happy about it because she's always wanted Susan back. And then there eventually is this horrifying incident where Mrs. Eyre's went up to the old nurseries, which haven't been used in decades since the sense that they have they have a day nursery and a night nursery.

[00:53:35]

Paris, what? Fuck me, I read that to us like, oh, dude, I don't know. I don't understand the need for all these goddamn rooms.

[00:53:45]

This one's for night boobs and this one is for boobs. Yeah, I have no idea. Anyway, she goes up to the nurseries and the nurseries have like bars on the window because of course, you know, they don't want children falling out of this this, this house because it was on the second floor. I think the second floor or third floor, I forget and I forget why she goes in there. Do you remember why? I think she hears footsteps?

[00:54:15]

Yeah, they're hearing noises again. Yeah, I, I forget if that was exactly what it was, but she went up there and she ends up getting locked in the room and can hear footsteps outside like a child's footsteps. And keep in mind, the only people in the house are Betty, Mrs. Baisley and Caroline and herself. And the only other person that could be there is Ferriday or like one of the work dudes. But she clearly can hear like a child's pattering, like running.

[00:54:51]

And then she peers out the keyhole and sees a shadow running and gets obviously really freaked out. And then, you know, she basically has a fucking panic attack, as you know, you would she oh, she also hears she puts like the speaking tube in the nursery up to her ear and hears. What does it say, Susan, I forget she hears breathing, oh, something is rustling against the tubes, which she interprets as breathing.

[00:55:21]

Right. She hears what sounds like what Susan sounded like when she was dying of fuck. That's a long, long thing.

[00:55:32]

No, no, no, it wasn't it was it diptheria, unspecified respirator?

[00:55:38]

No, they they did specify. I just I can't remember. Well, for right now. Unspecified. Yeah, it doesn't matter.

[00:55:46]

So she thinks she hears. Her her, you know, daughters like choking gas or whatever, and she, you know, freaks out, she can't get out of the room because the door's locked. She's yelling and yelling and yelling for someone to come and banging at the door, but no one ever comes. And finally, she bangs at the windows and they shatter and cuts up all of her wrists and she's screaming out the window and finally gets Mrs. Baisley and Carolyn's attention, you know, and they come get her out of there.

[00:56:13]

But, you know, obviously, that was pretty concerning. And at that point, you know, that's when Faraday starts suggesting, well, maybe your mom's crazy, too, to Caroline and Caroline's like, dude, they can't all be nuts.

[00:56:29]

But he's like, I don't know what sure seems like it. And then he finally convinces Caroline, like, hey, I think we need to commit your mom to and she, you know. Oh, that's right. Because the what the one scary scene in the book happens that I actually liked sorry, right before the incident that proceeds and causes that conversation about committing her is. Faraday is taking Mrs. Ayers out on a walk outside for some reason, and it's like just to see you in Chicago.

[00:57:04]

Yeah, yeah. So winter. So there's taking a walk and he's asking her if she's feeling they they stopped by the fish pond and they like, you know. Yeah, whatever. And they talk about some stuff. And then as they're standing there, she admits that, you know, it's you know, her dead daughter Susan is the ghost. And he is standing there going like, oh, come on, you always trying to be like, oh, come now.

[00:57:27]

It's not that. And while he's talking to her, he watches as a big scratch, appears on her chest and starts bleeding immediately. And I was like, fuck, that's actually really cool. I thought that was a really great scene to to really kind of make it obvious to you that. It it's not mental illness or it's not all mental illness and that there actually is something supernatural happening, you know, and even though Faraday sees that, he he just thinks that she had some some sharp thing hidden in her gloves or something, even though it was obvious that she didn't have her hands on her chest when it happened.

[00:58:05]

Oh, he's always looking for the rational explanation.

[00:58:08]

He is the foil to Kolonaki. If we could get both of them together in the same room, you know, that was just a guy in a well with someone.

[00:58:16]

I don't understand what you guys are freaking out about. Clearly, yeah.

[00:58:20]

Like, yeah, this is the opposite of Kolonaki where it's like getting to the point where it's hard. It's fucking hard to deny that there isn't something substantial happening, at least if not solely, at least in conjunction with something perhaps mental. So that happens. And then, you know, he's like, we have to have your mother committed, Caroline. And, you know, Caroline agrees. And he's like, I should take her now. And she's like, you know, they kind of decide that taking her now, like right that instant would be too difficult because they have to, like, arrange for her to be somewhere because she couldn't possibly be in the regular psychiatric ward.

[00:58:55]

You have to go to get rich person. Yeah. Yeah. So due to social propriety, they put the they put it off till the next day and Ferreti gets her gives Caroline strict instructions that she is to stay awake with her mother all night and to never leave her side because he's worried about what might happen. And of course as all book characters do, Carolyn fucks up and falls asleep for three hours and in a different room entirely.

[00:59:24]

She was originally like reading next to her mother and then decides I'm just going to be harmless if I took a nap now.

[00:59:31]

No, she wasn't planning on napping. She was planning on having a cigarette and putting her feet up. And of course, she fell asleep because it was 5:00 in the morning and she'd been up all night. So she falls asleep for three hours. And when she wakes up, she finds Betty putting breakfast out and then she's like, oh, your mom isn't answering the door. And then they can't open the door because it's locked. Even though Caroline knows that when she you know, when she was sitting there staring at the room, the door was wide open.

[01:00:02]

And I guess there's only one key to that room and they don't have it. So, you know, they run around the estate trying to figure out if their mother left, like, got up in the middle of the night and went somewhere, like went for a walk on the estate or something. They find the key outside in the snow and realized that she threw it out the window. And then once they are able to open the door, they find that Mrs.

[01:00:26]

Errors had hanged herself with a scarf or something on the door on the doorknob. Hmm. So she's fucking dead. And, you know, Faraday comes and it's like, all right. So at this point in the book, I'm like, all right, the house is just going to kill everyone, right?

[01:00:46]

Like, that's where we're going with this. Um, but then, I don't know, does anything notable even happen, Caroline, find some some paranormal books in the library and tries to tell Faraday that she really thinks that something paranormal is happening.

[01:01:01]

And Faraday's like, that's fine. Faraday even talked to his doctor friend who actually supports this. And it's like, hey, man, we don't know everything. And some of these dudes like Myers have put out some work. That's kind of interesting. You know, if you want to talk about energies and stuff. And despite that, he still just says, no, it's just, you know, it's nothing ghostly.

[01:01:23]

Yeah. I want to point out a thing here.

[01:01:25]

The thing that Seelie sort of proposes is that that's Perrottet, that's Faraday's doctor friend, by the way.

[01:01:32]

Really, the thing that Seelie proposes is that sometimes the unconscious wills of people can manifest physically if someone is suppressing something or can't get it out. Otherwise, it might come out in the form of hauntings of sorts.

[01:01:52]

Or these unexplainable instances are really that part of the human psyche reaching out and physically affecting the world around us.

[01:02:02]

Yeah, so a poltergeist basically now. And despite this, he still refuses to consider that. So even know this.

[01:02:17]

This is the part where he's like, you know what, let's get married, Carol.

[01:02:21]

Yeah. He's like, hey, let's do the marriage thing. And Carolyn never actually says, yes, right. Am I wrong about that?

[01:02:28]

No, she's he kind of nags her for a bit. And he at one point is like, oh, can we just set a date six weeks from now? And she's like he's like, but, you know, six weeks is plenty.

[01:02:39]

And she's like, OK, I guess she pretty much reluctantly agrees to it.

[01:02:45]

Yeah. And it's pretty clear that she's not. Out into him, like throughout the whole book, it's pretty obvious that she's just not super into Farraday like Bradley. Yeah, they get along, they're friends. But, you know, she she seems very. Yeah, very undecided. She was flirting with him at that party for a bit after she'd had something to drink and then, you know, after the little tussle in the car, she's basically very standoffish around him.

[01:03:19]

And even though they're courting and they'll share a chaste cheek kiss or two, doesn't ever really seem to be that delighted about any of it. Yeah.

[01:03:29]

And and it's not even because of like her mother's suicide, because this a lot of this stuff takes place, like I said, kind of in the run up to that anyhow. And it's. Yeah, it's just that seems pretty tepid, you know, lukewarm.

[01:03:45]

Yeah. Not that is all wrapped up in it. All of a sudden though, he is very all about wanting to be married as soon as possible.

[01:03:54]

And he's so excited about having a wife and living in hundreds hall. Yeah.

[01:04:00]

And everyone's generally congratulatory about it. He's all ready to get a ring in a dress.

[01:04:08]

And Carolyn, the whole time was like, can we just, you know, can we just slow down for a second? No, he does not want to slow down, wants to go fast. Got to marry fast to the wedding. The wedding. I got my ring here so. Yeah. Got to find the other seven or nine or whatever and forget the song.

[01:04:28]

Once the emeralds, the rings are just a latent power source. This is a sonic lure. Moments from his.

[01:04:34]

Well he needs an emerald in the ring. In the engagement ring.

[01:04:37]

Right. Yeah, sure. The chaos engagement ring, emeralds good. Emeralds are good. I like them so. So, yeah. You know, her mother has just committed suicide. Her brother has been institutionalized and she Carolin herself has been left with managing this estate that was already kind of a pain in the ass. And, you know, she's she's got a lot to deal with. And, you know, she has this fucking guy who's just like, hey, hey, hey, let's get married.

[01:05:02]

Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Marriage, marriage, marriage. And that's got to be fucking annoying.

[01:05:08]

And then just because he wants to fuck, right.

[01:05:10]

That's what always hits me about these courtships when they're so quick and in this time period seems really to be every time the guy's just wants to fuck. And then he'll have that horrifying moment after where he goes, oh wait, that.

[01:05:26]

Oh, no. Now I don't want this.

[01:05:28]

Yeah, and that's always how it is. Yeah. So I was actually so the rest of the plot points didn't surprise me, but this one thing did. Right towards the end of the book, Carolyn tells him no. He brings her a ring and a dress and some some silk flowers for the wedding. And she says, no, not doing it, not interested. And he even says that she seems very calm and collected when she says this.

[01:05:59]

She's not upset. She just says, you know, I'm really sorry. I just wasn't sure for a while. And now I am sure and I really want to keep you as a friend and I don't want to hurt you, but it would be worse if we went through with it, you know, very measured. Very reasonable. What is Faraday's reaction to this, Chris?

[01:06:16]

He gets so upset that he starts ranting about, oh, how could you how dare you give up hundreds hall?

[01:06:24]

How could you do this? What do you want to do?

[01:06:27]

Where are we going to go? We didn't specify that Carolyn's plan is to sell off the estate and everything in it. And she just wants to start over somewhere because she's not interested in the estate. Sorry, continue.

[01:06:38]

But that's pretty much how he rants at her in a very shitty way, as if, first of all, just upholding that Buji lifestyle that she doesn't even want. And for some reason, Faraday is shaming her about wanting to sell things off and start over, which is undoubtedly healthier for her because even Faraday admits that it's quite a job to run this whole estate. And this is where I began realizing that Faraday this is his ticket into the upper gentry.

[01:07:11]

He feels this is his chance to get a huge house and live in that in much the way that he wanted to ever since he was a kid and he stole that little acorn from the plaster molding. That's the little token that he took with him, because this is the life that he wanted and he feels this is his ticket in and he feels as if he's entitled to it at some point and she is ruining his plans.

[01:07:33]

Yep. And I mean, it's no one's fault but his he's the one that got all worked up about this without, like, actually checking in on Carolyn's feelings, you know, which is the thing you should do before you get married or plan to. And then after he whips the ring at her and cracks the glass behind her of a window, he he's like, I'm going to leave this stuff here because you're going to change your mind. And she's like, nah, dude, I'm really not.

[01:08:00]

And he's, you know, just so, so made up about this. And, you know, he he enlisted the help of a friend and it's like, hey, can you go talk to her for me?

[01:08:12]

Their mutual friends sort of. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:08:14]

He talks to them and they're like, oh, she's you know, she's just had it rough now. And, you know, we'll go talk to her, try to make it better, whatever you call it off.

[01:08:22]

How dreadful. Yeah. They're like, oh, she's just under a lot of stress and you know, with her mother dying, blah, blah, they're like, oh, we'll go talk to her. So the wife of the couple goes, talk to her. And Carolyn's still like Nattu. My mind's made up. It's not happening. He goes there and tries to convince her and then finally, you know, she's like, please stop showing up here like it's not cool.

[01:08:44]

I told you no. He goes to his doctor friend and says. Carolyn herself is far from well, and he tries to fucking get her committed because he doesn't like that she doesn't want to marry him and his, you know, props to doctor friend who says, the fuck, man, you're really trying to get this lady committed because she does want to marry you.

[01:09:08]

Yeah, he he even says if I did this for every fool that walks through here wanting to get someone committed because they wouldn't wed him, that would be happening a lot more often. But that's stupid. So congrats to this one, doctor. That isn't massively sexist. I suppose it is just like, dude, get over yourself.

[01:09:26]

Chris, at this point in the book, you wrote a lovely tune for us.

[01:09:30]

Oh, my my song about how Dr. Faraday sucks. Yeah.

[01:09:36]

So after the rant that he throws at Carolyn, I, I knew that Faraday sucked long before this because.

[01:09:45]

Yeah, he just I could tell that he really just wanted his ticket into the upper gentry.

[01:09:52]

Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty clear.

[01:09:54]

So to the tune of the to the tune of Jingle Bells, if you'll indulge me, this guy sucks. This guy sucks. This guy fucking sucks. Oh my God. He sucks so bad. He really fucking sucks.

[01:10:07]

What a pompous dick. Can you believe this shit.

[01:10:10]

I hope he drives away all set and straight into a pit. Oh, this guy sucks. This guy sucks. This guy fucking sucks. Oh my God.

[01:10:18]

He sucks so bad. He really fucking sucks. Hello.

[01:10:22]

Yes, yeah. Yeah I verité is the worst.

[01:10:26]

He's you would think that I would relate more to the character that's trying to be rational about this as I would in situations where things, supernatural things might be happening.

[01:10:37]

But in the end he, he's the luckiest of them all in trying to get Carolynn committed.

[01:10:44]

And I think you're supposed to realize at this point that here's my head cannon theory. Let's see if you agree with this. Paris. Hmm.

[01:10:54]

Farida's wants to get into this house at any cost possible is what manifests the hauntings. There are actual supernatural things happen, and it's his sort of pressed down dislike of the rest of the family, except for Carolyn, who doesn't really get haunted directly that Mount Everest.

[01:11:17]

Did you forget how this book ended? Yeah. Now what you owe at them at this moment of this moment in the book, OK, this moment of.

[01:11:28]

So I just disagree slightly. So I, I agree that there's definitely some supernatural shit happening in the book. It's pretty obvious that Susan. Well, I think it's obvious that something posing as Susan is haunting them. I don't think it's Susan because why would a dead child terrorize her living family and murder them? Maybe.

[01:11:54]

Maybe the idea is like, you know, we'll all be together. But it seems pretty malevolent, like, why would she scratch her mother's chest open?

[01:12:05]

That's why I attribute it to Faraday.

[01:12:08]

Well, I think it's I think it's something that is posing as Susan. I don't think it's Susan. Yeah.

[01:12:16]

It's Farida's dislike of the rest of the family manifesting as the things that scare them or upset them the most based on what he knows about them. I don't agree.

[01:12:28]

So I was also struggling to figure out what what caused the hauntings, because it's pretty clear that before it's pretty clear that, like Betty and Mrs Baisley sensed that something was odd but had never actually witnessed anything, they just kind of, quote unquote, got the creeps. You know, Mrs like Mrs Baisley, for example, refused to stay in the house overnight, which is, I think ultimately why they ended up hiring Betty, because Betty lives there full time, whereas Mrs Paisley is just a day woman, you know, like day help.

[01:13:05]

But yeah, this is Paisley and Betty never really see or hear anything until Faraday starts. It's really everything kicks off with the the dog biting the child at the party. But I, I can't for the life of me figure out what the impetus of the haunting is like. There doesn't seem to be any.

[01:13:30]

That's why I landed on Faraday, because he and stelae have the conversation about dislikes manifesting or suppressed emotions manifesting physically. And a lot of the time Faraday is trying to lie to himself or convince himself about something in his internal monologues, whether, you know, O'Callaghan's not attractive. Oh, wait, I actually like this very plain. Earl, oh, this family that I'm being friendly with for I don't know what reason, because I actually dislike them, he tries to shove that aside for his ulterior motive.

[01:13:59]

He doesn't want to admit to himself that what he really wants is a life at hundreds hall. He feels as if he can bring it back from the brink. And this is his chance to take over that by marrying Carolyn.

[01:14:11]

Yeah, I mean, I think I think that might be the best explanation. I mean, the other explanation is it could be manifesting from Caroline because she's kind of the only one that doesn't want to be at hundreds and doesn't, you know, doesn't much care for this kind of lifestyle.

[01:14:32]

Could be. You know what, honestly, that's just as viable. Yeah, it's it's kind of I mean, I think it's also really I don't know. I mean, I don't know that that piece makes any a lot of sense.

[01:14:46]

Well, yeah. Why don't we actually get to the ending now? I think this is the thing that fumbles the whole story.

[01:14:52]

Yeah. So so then after Farat, I just can't get over the fact that Caroline does want to marry him. He continues obsessing over it and then one day he gets a call in the middle of the night and Caroline is also dead.

[01:15:04]

Now in the way in which she died was pretty strange. She somehow jumped from the the top floor of the House, you know, down and down through the the stairwell to land just in the front hall. Obviously, she died on impact and Betty actually saw it happen, which is kind of nuts because Betty could hear because Betty's room, the servant, was right at the stairs at like the head of the, I don't know, first second floor.

[01:15:44]

I'm not really sure. The second floor stairs. Yeah, second third floor. Yeah, I think were three floors. I think the nursery is on the third floor. Fuck I said second earlier or whatever.

[01:15:54]

So Betty's room is there and she could hear Caroline walking up the stairs and she heard her say, you like that.

[01:16:05]

And then she heard I forget what else she hears but she, she opens her door just in time to see Caroline fall from the top floor.

[01:16:20]

Like no one else around her. No, no, doesn't seem like there's a reason for it. And, you know, obviously there's like an inquest and they have to testify about it. And, you know, ultimately, it comes up in court that there might have been some supernatural shit happening. And that's the big scandal. But, yeah, I mean, Caroline dying, too. I don't know. I mean, in some ways I want to say it's typical troubled family haunted house where the house wants them to stay forever.

[01:16:55]

So it wants them to die on the premises so that they're forever there. But for it to have just started randomly happening, you know, kind of out of nowhere, I don't really get that, because typically in a story like this, the house would always have been off or there would have been something to like if maybe Susan died. And then ever since Susan's death, they had been experiencing things that would have made more sense. Or if something else had happened, I think I would have been more on board with that.

[01:17:28]

But it just kind of starting out of nowhere.

[01:17:31]

I don't well, it starts up when Faraday starts hanging around the family. So I think that lends credence towards my theory here. And I just the thing I didn't love about the ending here is that, you know, during this whole.

[01:17:45]

Oh, wait, wait, wait. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

[01:17:48]

During the whole trial scene.

[01:17:49]

Well, that night where Faraday gets a call, he gets a call to just do an appendix removal or transport someone that has an appendix issue that's very late in the evening.

[01:18:01]

And there's a scene where that whole thing gets wrapped up and he decides to take a nap in his car. And then he has, like, weird dreams in the car and then he drives home. And then at the trial, he clearly has a vivid vision of Carolyn at the top of the staircase.

[01:18:19]

So, I mean, come on, he had some kind of fugue episode and he shoved Carolyn off the top.

[01:18:25]

Wait a second. I don't remember that at Paracel. You kidding me? Oh, that's extremely clear. What do you talk about? I probably finish this book in a fugue state, which is why I don't fucking I remember.

[01:18:39]

Oh, you missed the whole thing about the ending that I don't remember what his dream about Carolyn.

[01:18:46]

No he no he has he he's in his car taking a nap. He has like a weird trippy episode and then he ends up at home.

[01:18:55]

And then during the trial he has these very vivid memories almost to the point of retching at the trial about seeing Carolyn's face at the top of the staircase saying you.

[01:19:08]

OK, OK, hang on a second, I need to let this book reload, because I do not I don't remember that happening. I'm sorry, Chris. I was in a fugue state. My dead sister was ghosting me or something. I don't think about the ending.

[01:19:26]

Not really lines up neatly. Oh, fuck.

[01:19:29]

Hang on. Hang on. I have a family taint, but I'm not a doctor. Family. Well, twice in a row. Not putting this out, I see a watchful eye. Here we go. Was there a taint? Is that what a terrorized the family day after day, month by month and finally destroyed it? That was what Riddel believed or Ridell believed clearly. And once I would have agreed with him, I would have set out the evidence just as he had until it told the story.

[01:20:02]

I wanted it to tell, but my confidence in that story was shaken. Now, it seemed to me that the calamity that had overtaken hundreds hall was far stranger thing, not a thing to be decided on neatly in a small plane room, in a court of law. But then what was it? I looked up into the sea of watchful faces, caught sight of Graham and Hampton and Seele, I think. Seele nodded slightly, though, whether he was urging me to speak or to silence, I don't know.

[01:20:27]

I saw Betty gazing at me with her light, bewildered eyes. Then across that image there came another hundreds landing lit bright by the moon. Once again I seemed to see Caroline making her sure-footed way along it. I saw her doubtfully mounting the stairs, as if drawn upwards by a familiar voice. I saw her advancing to the darkness, not quite certain of what was before her. Then I saw her face, saw it as vividly as the faces all around me.

[01:20:51]

I saw recognition and understanding and horror in her expression just for a moment, as if it were there and the silvered surface of the moon that I even seemed to catch the outline of some shadowy, dreadful thing. I don't think I read the part go and find the part where he is napping in the car.

[01:21:12]

Yes, I find that because I I mean, I remember that part where he's like recall like thinking about like what it must have been like when she died. But it didn't seem like guilt to me. It just he starts saying that he feels like he's going to throw up.

[01:21:29]

Yeah, I think I remember that too. But let me find the car. I found it. I'm going to I'm going to read it, OK? OK, OK, I see it, yeah, the moon was so bright, the trees cast shadows and the water seemed white as milk. The whole scene was like a photograph of itself, oddly developed and slightly unreal. I gazed at it and it seemed to absorb me. I began to feel out of time and out of place, an absolute stranger.

[01:21:55]

I think I smoked another cigarette.

[01:21:57]

I know that I presently grew cold and groped about on the back seat for the old red blanket I kept in the car, the blanket I had once tucked around Carolyn and wrapped myself up in it. I felt not at all weary in the ordinary sense. I think I expected to sit there wakeful for the rest of the night, but I turned and drew up my legs and lowered my cheek to the back of the seat. And I sank into a fretful sort of slumber almost at once.

[01:22:19]

And in the slumber I seemed to leave the car and to press on to hundreds. I saw myself doing it with all the hectic, unnatural clarity with which I'd been recalling the dash to the hospital a little while before I saw myself cross the silver landscape and past like smoke through the gate. I saw myself start along the drive. But there are groups which are confused for the drive was changed, was queer and wrong, was impossibly lengthy, entangled with at the end of it, nothing but darkness.

[01:22:47]

I woke in daylight. Huh? Yeah, I mean, I think that it's I think that that's fairly, fairly possible. I also thought that he might have killed Mrs. Eres. Good, because he because he kept drugging her with whatever that was and he knew he was giving her too much, but he continued to anyway veronal.

[01:23:12]

So. Yeah, yeah.

[01:23:13]

So I thought that he may have perhaps unconsciously or sort of intentionally. Killed Mrs. Eyre's by giving her too much of that drug. Yeah, and so and he's the one who, you know, was all about having Rodrik committed. So this is my problem, I guess, with the ending as I interpreted it.

[01:23:36]

It's not I mean, you can see how the haunting and Caroline's death were sort of wrapped up together and built up to that ending, especially if you're going with my theory that the haunting is a manifestation of Faraday's dislike or unease or any negative emotions you might want to ascribe to how he feels about the family getting in the way of him obtaining hundreds hall for himself.

[01:24:00]

Yeah, but I just think there's a disconnect between that supernatural stuff that happens and then him going into a fugue state and shoving Carolyn off a third floor banister to her death, which is very plainly just something that he is doing himself, at least in my interpretation of things.

[01:24:21]

All of the other haunting stuff definitely was something supernatural. The burn marks in Rodricks room, especially to me and the mirror, you know, being lifted and thrown at him. That is something supernatural.

[01:24:34]

So you can tie it up in the way that I did by saying that it's, you know, Faraday's negative emotions that manifest, whether he's in the hall or not, because things will happen when he's clearly definitely awake and away from the hall, definitely not being in a fugue state.

[01:24:51]

And there's just something that rubs me the wrong way about all this supernatural stuff happening that might be a manifestation of Faraday's negative emotions. And then in the end, it's just him murdering Caroline himself. There's not really tying up of any of the haunting or anything. Maybe there doesn't have to be I don't need a thorough explanation of every supernatural paranormal thing that happens in a book. That's the point of it being spooky is the unexplained nature.

[01:25:17]

And but I just don't those two pieces don't mesh together the way I want them to.

[01:25:24]

Yeah. I mean, I think I agree with you that. It's it seems really likely to me that Faraday was behind, it's very possible he was behind Carolyn and Mrs. Harris's death and. I'm not sure if I would count Miss Ayers because she did hang herself.

[01:25:45]

Yeah, but he was giving her drugs that, you know, that's not as clear cut as him shoving Carolyn.

[01:25:51]

Oh, I agree. I agree. I agree. It's not I don't know. I suppose in some ways I like that. You have a choice into how to interpret the story. I think it gives the reader some credit. I think there are enough clues either way, really.

[01:26:08]

I mean, most definitely.

[01:26:09]

Faraday is the little stranger, whether it's his manifestation that he presses out into the house or describing him as the little stranger that showed up at the party as a child and now the stranger in the house, because he eventually gets the key to hundreds hall, even though he doesn't get a deal or anything, he just has a key that he'll start showing up and like cleaning the place up.

[01:26:32]

After all, the family has been killed or, you know, put away. Roderick is just in the is committed for the rest of the things. He's alive still at the end, but clearly can't get access to his own estate or what have you.

[01:26:47]

Well, I think I think it's actually a it's a better explanation that Faraday, Faraday's little stranger poltergeist is, you know, not Susan, because it you know, when he was a kid, he remembers Susan. And so isn't it possible that as a young child, you would write the name of your friend or a little girl you had a crush on, like, you know, in the in the wainscoting or on the wall?

[01:27:21]

Well, yeah, except at that point, I suppose the servants saying that this definitely wasn't here before.

[01:27:27]

No, no, no. I'm not saying I'm not sorry. You're missing my point. I'm not maybe I'm not doing a good job explaining. I'm saying it makes more sense to me that it's not the little girl's ghost writing her own name, but rather this poltergeist of that's perhaps taking the form of, like, young Faraday writing Susan's name.

[01:27:46]

Yeah. So I. I think that yeah. I think that I agree that I don't. It doesn't feel terribly neat in the way it ends, and we've talked about how much we didn't really care for this style of writing, even though it is done well, you know, it's just not for us.

[01:28:08]

My I think my biggest critique of this book, other than it just not being a subject or genre that I like. Good Lord, the like the technical editing was superb, except for the weird fucking f f good thing. But the story editing. How the fuck did this go to print at four hundred and sixty seven.

[01:28:33]

O Merciful Lord, this was a slog to read by a mile and a half and then more miles after that it could easily have, it could easily have been half that length.

[01:28:44]

And I think it would have been more interesting because if it was half that length, the writing would have been tighter and we wouldn't have had to sit through all these scenes of like afternoon tea and and going through the photographs.

[01:28:56]

Oh, heavens of the pores are moving in. Oh, no.

[01:29:00]

Faraday has a appendicitis to treat.

[01:29:03]

You know, it's just like cut out a couple of those extra haunting scenes, a couple of the slightly racist or classist scenes maybe.

[01:29:11]

Well, the thing is, like I understand that they're there to provide a fuller picture, but honestly, I just felt like it was extra. It didn't need to be there. I don't think we got anything more by all of those extra conversations and interactions. There were so many that could have easily been cut. And my other so yeah, my my main issue is that it should have been much shorter and I think I would have been able to get into it more because think about it.

[01:29:36]

Imagine if we didn't sit through one hundred and twenty pages with no haunting.

[01:29:41]

I know. You know, imagine if it was like if the shit started at that party, like it would have been better.

[01:29:50]

You could go straight from him as a part like, you know, at the party as a little kid. Yeah.

[01:29:54]

Made them party as an adult or, you know, you could even do the whole Betty thing just to, you know, tell why he's at the party. Why why is he, like, you know, brought in with his family all of a sudden have the thing with Betty and then immediately after that happens, oh, we're having a party next week.

[01:30:11]

Why don't you come, Dr. Faraday?

[01:30:13]

I think he's got 80 patients. Yeah. And then there's other stuff that could easily have been cut. Like, I think they really should have kept the strong, like the stronger hauntings and scenes where we really get something out of it. And and I know part of the length is due to the style of writing, because, like I said, it's all about the architecture, the rooms, the furniture, the wallpaper, blah, blah, blah, you know, and it's so I don't know that much could have been done about that.

[01:30:43]

But it's like, how many times do we have to describe these fucking rooms?

[01:30:47]

I don't I don't think every time he shows up at hundreds each, he's bitching about a new thing that looks shitty. And brand new thing to describe is dilapidated this time. One time, it's the eye of crawling up the wall. The other time it's the saloon, the wallpaper. And there another time it's, oh, this fountain here has been all a crumble.

[01:31:07]

Yeah. And I think I definitely understand showing instead of telling because we would never encourage any authors to tell instead of show. But I don't think it's out there.

[01:31:17]

It's up and says what a shithole.

[01:31:19]

It's, I don't think it's necessary to show quite this much what an asshole.

[01:31:23]

I'm sorry. Huh. Yeah I. Anyway, so yeah I really think it could have been the writing could have been tighter if they had pared down a lot of the unnecessary scenes. How about this.

[01:31:39]

Instead of the ringing servant bells and the tube system. Just one of the two. Just pick one.

[01:31:47]

Yeah, the tube. Honestly, the tube makes more sense because it went up to the nursery like one of the one up to the nursery. So, like, cut the bell thing. Like, do we need Mrs Beasley and Betty? I don't know. Probably not. I because there are also people that worked on the farm.

[01:32:03]

I forgot the dude's name, but I don't know him was one Macon's. Yeah, I'm assuming they had Mrs Beasley and Betty so that you kind of have the servants in agreement that something's going on. Once the child was don't.

[01:32:15]

So you have. Yeah. Different perspectives.

[01:32:17]

Sure. And I think, I think that's fine. I think a lot of Ferreti scenes with his doctor friends could have been shorter or some of them, you know, perhaps not even have happened.

[01:32:29]

Yeah. There's just a lot of that stuff that could have been 467 pages and it's a real lot.

[01:32:35]

Hey, patrons, try to send us things on the three hundred or under.

[01:32:38]

Hey, hey, hey. You don't you don't talk to our patrons. I know. I'm just pleased. It's a nice request. You don't have to whatever you select for us to read, we will read. But just for.

[01:32:48]

But please.

[01:32:51]

No, actually wait I think. This patron in particular is a top donor, right? Yes, OK, well, then, yes, she gets high. Yeah.

[01:33:01]

Veronica, you can give us whatever you want. Give us the fucking dictionary word for you.

[01:33:05]

Please don't know. Terrible word by adding every word aardvark. All right. Ten years from now, umbrella.

[01:33:18]

You're already decrepit.

[01:33:20]

Oh, in ten years and forty one. I'm an old hag, which we learned from Terry Goodkind. I will be an old hag 41. Piggybacking on what I just said about how verbose all of the architectural descriptions and sort of like mood setting stuff was, I actually think the story would be a lot better suited to a film or a short mini series.

[01:33:43]

I would agree a lot of the scenery changes sort of described, you know, so real estate.

[01:33:49]

Yeah. So real estate. Oh, sorry. Sorry.

[01:33:53]

They're described as if they're being recounted to Faraday after they happened, which is a perfect setup for, you know, a flashback or like in a movie where there's a voiceover of the character describing the story happens as the creepy thing happens.

[01:34:08]

Yeah. And then at the end, you know, whoever is telling him can just be like, get out now. Out you go. Which is exactly what we want from a ghost story of this time. But seriously, though, I think that there's so much textual real estate spent on visuals that we could really just cut the shit if it was a if it was a movie or a miniseries.

[01:34:30]

Yeah, right. Yeah. You know, you just you can see everything so you don't need to fucking waste your words describing it. And I just think that these personalities would be perhaps brought to life a bit more with actors, you know, because you can see their faces emoting. And, you know, perhaps the speech would sound more natural if we were actually hearing people say these things and watching their body language with it. I feel like just reading it, it's really hard for me to become invested because I'm not into the style.

[01:35:03]

But I think seeing it could could work. And I just think that the whole troubled rich white family and a big old haunted house, you know, like I mentioned at the start, we have the fall of the house of Usher, the haunting of Hill House. And I'm sure there are many others. What The Amityville Horror, although that was that was kind of a whole other thing. I don't know that I would really consider that like a I mean, it's a work of fiction.

[01:35:25]

But anyway, I'm not going to talk about that right now. But there actually is a movie based on this. So Chris and I will watch this for patrons, I'm sure, since we do love to try to watch things that are directly related to things we've read. So I, I don't know. I'm hoping for more. And I mean, it was just made in twenty eighteen, so it's relatively new. So, you know, I have hopes, I have hopes that the film next year, I think it can work.

[01:35:51]

It could be a slightly better Crimson Peak. Yeah. Oh yeah. I totally I was totally wrong at the beginning of this. I was like all right, I'm putting my bet down for incest and there was no incest, so I was happy about it. Pretty happy about it. Yeah. I also wanted to say that I think. I think I will I already talked about how I appreciated the I appreciated the attention to detail and the dedication to historical realism, even if I found the style itself rigid and boring.

[01:36:25]

I think that Faraday's shittiness and his kind of was like really was portrayed really well. I found myself hating him by the end, which is perfect. That's how, you know, a character is written well. So when you hate them at the end. Yeah, I love. Well, I was well if you have an extreme emotion either way, if you love a character or hate them, I think that that shows you that, you know, a character was well-written.

[01:36:49]

And I just love that. Caroline, turn Faraday down for marriage. Oh, man. I was just like, fuck you, Ferriday. But yeah. So ultimately, I think that this book is just not for us. It's not for me. It's not for Chris. But as Chris mentioned earlier, if you are into, like, meticulously researched historical fiction, specifically about 1940s post-war England, if you're cool with dry ass British writing about molding on doors, you like yourself a good heavens or how dreadful.

[01:37:23]

Yeah. And you're really into, like, class stuff, you know, class struggles and maybe a touch of ghosts. I can see why. I can see why people might like this. You know, I don't Chris. I think I'm going to say I don't think it is a truly terrible book. It is terrible for me. But that is I don't see two point five out of five just right down the middle of that.

[01:37:48]

I'd knock it off, I'd knock it up to a three because of the research clearly put into writing. All right. Period. Yeah. I just think that maybe if the same story, if if we are interpreting it correctly, I think that the same story would be I think I could like it if it wasn't if the writing style was different or like I said, if it was a movie or mini series, you know, so we'll see a little.

[01:38:16]

Yeah. And also and also if half of it wasn't there.

[01:38:20]

So I don't know, it's tough for me to call this terrible because I certainly wouldn't call it terrible. Yeah, that's the thing. I wouldn't either. It's just not like in my personal Paris library. It would be terrible because I'd be I would never recommend this to anyone, you know, I wouldn't be like if a friend was like, hey, you want to recommend me a book?

[01:38:42]

I wouldn't be like, oh, the little stranger, you know, I'd be like, I'd recommend something else. And then if they said, Oh, but I really want to be bored to fucking death over 467 pages long with the characters. No, I'm kidding. But if they if someone told me they were into, you know, British period stuff from the early to mid 20th century and they really like that kind of writing, I'd be like, oh, you know, you might like this book.

[01:39:06]

So it's a book that I would only suggest to people if I knew ahead of time that they had a stake in some of these characteristics of the book. It's not something I would just outright recommend.

[01:39:20]

Yeah, I would. I feel exactly the same way about it, honestly.

[01:39:23]

Yeah. So anyway, I honestly I think this author put a lot of work into this, so I don't want to disparage her.

[01:39:30]

You know, it's just I think this is just a job for the most part. Yeah. No, I just think that this is it's just a statue. It's just one of those situations where the book isn't awful. It's just not for us, you know, and that's I mean, that's going to happen. Right. Honestly, it was really nice to read something that didn't have typos, every sentence or every other page and what didn't have a graphic sex or graphic rape scene or like, you know, it was good.

[01:39:57]

It's nice change of pace, even if it was really brutal to read all of it and get through it without your eyes glazing over.

[01:40:04]

Oh, all right.

[01:40:05]

Well, since we are done with the book, is there anything else we wanted to talk about? Chris, you got anything?

[01:40:13]

But I think you got your few things you'd like to go over here. I'm going to hang back on this episode.

[01:40:19]

OK, so we got some patron mail from Kieran. I just wanted to thank him for a message he sent us about war elephants. So we're elephants. This is a reference to our last Maradona's episode, our Macedonia and P.

[01:40:36]

Yeah.

[01:40:38]

Karen explained to us that the the convention by which the elephant writers or handlers would, you know, drive a chisel between their ears and and kill them, you know, like drive a chisel with a mallet was actually real. That actually fucking happened. Holy shit. We thought, you know, when we were in Macedonia, we were like, that's horrifying. I can't believe that this was included in the text. And I guess we should have known better that this was just pulled from something.

[01:41:09]

In history, but, yeah, it was it was it was a real practice, according to Livy and his history of Rome. Obviously, this was translated more of the elephants were slain by their own drivers than by the enemy. These used to have a carpenter's chisel and a mallet. When the beasts began to grow wild and dash into their own men, the keyboard placed the chisel between the ears precisely at the joint, which connects the neck with the head and would drive it in with all possible force that had been found to be the quickest means of death in a brood of such size when they got beyond the hope of control.

[01:41:41]

Yikes. He has got to keep doing that to control your armored vehicle.

[01:41:46]

Maybe that's not a great use of resources. Yeah, right.

[01:41:50]

Maybe don't terrorize them and starve them about the guy on top of that. Like he has to do a dismount really quick or does he have to hope the thing doesn't fall over onto him? Why don't where does he yabba dabba doo down the tail after?

[01:42:03]

I don't know, but it sounds horrific. And then Curan also told us about something related to elephants that Macedonia related to these war elephants that Macedonia tragically missed out on, which is the practice of execution by elephant. And Kieran says there might be more metal ways to go out, but I can't think of many. So I certainly appreciate that execution by if you go to the Wikipedia execution by elephant was a common method of capital punishment in South and Southeast Asia, particularly in India, where Asian elephants were used to crush, dismember or torture captives and public executions.

[01:42:39]

I wonder if he is going to be angry or something first. Oh, wow. Elephants, natural human stompers.

[01:42:45]

Oh, man, no, I don't know. But I don't want to go too much into it. But yeah, too bad madonia didn't have execution by elephant.

[01:42:52]

I agree with me, but if that's what I'm saying right now. And then they go down the wrong path of an elephant and what do you know.

[01:43:03]

I don't have to write these books anymore. Fuck you, Dad. Well, Karen, thanks for the note. It's always fun to get, you know, notes from from patrons about stuff that we missed or, you know, just didn't know about. My second show tonight is about it's about a book. It's not about a book we've read. It's about a book that I've been searching for for my entire adult life. So about a year ago, maybe a little longer than that, I think I spoke on air on the show about how I had been desperately looking for this fairy tale book that I had as a kid.

[01:43:40]

And a few listeners messaged us. I was all over forums. I was on Reddit and, you know, other like book book forums trying to figure out what this book was called, how I could get it. And I couldn't remember anything about the title, but I vividly remembered the illustrations. And but unfortunately, you know, it's not like you can reverse image search your mind. I'm sure. I'm sure we'll get there sometime soon, unfortunately.

[01:44:07]

But I was having a really hard time finding it. And trust me, if you go looking on the Internet for Book of Fairy Tales, good fucking luck. There are so many of them because, you know, fairy tales are most often in public domain. So people can just published these collections all the time in kind of any assortment and do whatever. So there's just a lot of them.

[01:44:30]

And Grimm's Book of Furry Fairy Tale. Maybe about a month ago I got a message on Reddit. Someone had seen my post in ah, what's that book looking for this book. And they messaged me and said that they were reading this book to their kid and they knew what it was. And they sent me an Abebooks link. And the second I saw the cover, I knew it was it. And so I ordered one. And it came in the other day with a choir of angels.

[01:45:03]

When you saw the book from the past again when you opened the package.

[01:45:08]

Yeah, it was so amazing to be so validated because so many people, so many people, what I was saying that I was looking for this book, they would say to me, oh, no, those those stories never appeared in such a collection or I don't know those stories little.

[01:45:27]

I was I was totally desolate over this book. And you motherfuckers, it does exist. And I was right. Or Cowwarr. Paris, Paris, Paris.

[01:45:37]

What if this is like the Mandela effect? But you did it in reverse where we've tripped into the alternate dimension, where you manifested it into reality.

[01:45:46]

Yeah, it was because of all my negative emotions for not having it manifested as a book for children that got published 30 years ago.

[01:45:55]

So it's called Classic Fairy Tales. You can see now why it was difficult to find.

[01:46:01]

The cover is slightly different from what I remember. It is Snow White, but it's not Snow White's mother. It's Snow White herself waving goodbye as the Seven Dwarves go off to work. It is illustrated by Debbie Kindred and it was published by Brainiac's books in Newmarket, England in nineteen eighty nine The Year of My Birth. The stories include Snow White and Seven Dwarfs, the Elves and the Shoemaker, The Magic Ring, Sleeping Beauty, The Happy Prince, Hansel and Gretel.

[01:46:33]

The Silver Saucer in the Russet Apple Rapunzel. The Prince in the Black Scarf Rumpelstiltskin. Pippi on the Swan Princess, The Golden Goose, Puss in Boots, The Selfish Giant and the Wild Swans. It's got lovely illustrations and some of these stories like the silver saucer in the roasted apple. As I've mentioned, no one really knows. So I don't know. It's great. There were only five copies available anywhere. I bought one. My boyfriend actually bought another one.

[01:47:04]

So now there's only three out there that I know of. So I don't know if you want this, go for it, but I'm super happy to have it and I'm definitely planning on reading them. So thank you. Thank you to everybody who tried to search for me. I know I got messages from a lot of you and I really appreciate it, so. Oh yeah. Thanks. Sorry. Thanks. Thank you. To kind Rediker bio nerd.

[01:47:25]

Thank you for just messaging me out of the blue after I was on my post from a year ago. That's amazing.

[01:47:31]

Sounds like a questionable superhero. Just what.

[01:47:33]

Oh what a just what a wonderful I don't know, pandemic miracle. Oh just one gets one.

[01:47:42]

Yeah I think that's that's it for today. And in closing, we would like to of course, thank Veronica for choosing today's book. Thank you for recommending this book to us. We actually I think, had a spirited discussion and had some had some solid disagreements. You know, there were things to talk about. So like a book club. Yeah, it's almost like we're a real book club. Thanks, Monica.

[01:48:04]

That's the joke for this podcast from me. Sometimes we are the terrible book club because we're terrible at it sometimes.

[01:48:10]

Oh, I know. I totally I totally agree. It's really too bad that people who just kind of see the show out of the corner of their I don't really get that. We're fairly self-deprecating. It's a bummer, but. Oh, well, fuck them. Thanks, Veronica, for recommending this and for being a loyal patient for so long. We super appreciate you. And yeah, look forward to the next thing you recommend. I am going to agree with Veronica that.

[01:48:34]

Yeah, didn't didn't love it, but it's it's a book for some people, but those people are not us. Thank you to the rest of our patrons as well. Thank you. Daury Greg Will Dehlin, Senya Ya'akov Bobby, Black Cat, John Cena, Mayo Catch Elliott, Kiren Martin and Jay. If you also want to help support the show, you can donate to us on Patriota for various rewards. You can subscribe and follow us on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram or Goodreads.

[01:49:01]

You can also share the show and tell some people about it or write and reviews on the platform of your choice, whether that is iTunes Pod being or whatever. If you want to contact us directly, you can send an email to terrible book club at Gmail dot com, or you can send us a message on Goodreads, Twitter, Facebook or Instagram. Yeah, I think that is all we have to say today. Chris, any any final words?

[01:49:26]

No. OK. All right, well. Oh, well, with that, I hope that the rest of you are not as sweaty as I am right now.

[01:49:38]

It's been a brutal two hours recording this without the fan or the air conditioner.

[01:49:43]

We shut the fuck up, Paris. Why do we have to talk so much anyway?

[01:49:46]

We'll we'll see you in two weeks. Thanks. Goodbye by.