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In a single trial, you can see anger, despair, joy, terror and relief, each with an intensity that's hard to put into words. At the Kern County Courthouse, judges only allow such emotion from those on the witness stand when it comes to people in the audience. Stern bailiffs may threaten to remove even the victim's family members if they have an emotional outburst of any kind. So oftentimes the drama ends up spewing out in the long, narrow hallway outside of the courtroom doors, where everyone in the case, witnesses, jurors, victims and suspects loved ones, have to sit shoulder to shoulder on tightly packed plastic chairs when court is in recess. And it can get nasty, particularly for witnesses who often have no choice but to be there after being subpoenaed. So in an effort to offer those witnesses some sense of solace, there's a tiny room for them on the top floor of the courthouse, away from the chaos. Inside are a couple of small old couches, a TV that has a few channels, all covered by a constant layer of static. There are no windows, and it has a thick metal door that takes both hands to pull open with an automatic deadbolt lock when it's shut, which to me screams.

If you're not already scared to testify, maybe you should be. There's miscellaneous children's toys scattered around the stained carpet, giving the room an even more depressing aura. This is where the moms, Micah's dad, Lance and I sat for what felt like forever, waiting for a verdict. I'm Olivia Lavois, and this is the Bakersfield Three. I'd been worried about Cheryl for three weeks. She and Lance woke up at the crack of dawn and drove an hour and a half to court, where they sat for 8 hours, often having to see a giant blown up image on a projector of their son's skull and severed arm. There was one day when Cheryl physically couldn't walk into the courtroom on her own. She was mentally and physically beaten down. As we sat there waiting on the first day of deliberations, we talked about the concept of what was happening, knowing that in another room, in the same building, twelve strangers were working towards making a decision that would change so many lives. Everyone outside of that room was powerless to what that decision would be or how long it would take jurors to make it. This is how Cheryl described it at the very, very raw, very surreal.

I kind of feel a little disassociated in a weird way, so I'm kind of keeping an eye on my anxiety. And we talked about what the trial had been like. It has been very difficult. I did anticipate that, so much so that I have two therapists and a new psychiatrist and a doctor on standby, my medical doctor. So we geared up. Lance and I both kind of geared up a bit for this by doing some grief counseling and working through some stuff. I go home a lot of times and just put a book in, an audiobook on or we don't eat right. We don't tend to take care of ourselves in ways most people. When people Talk about self care, all that stuff goes out the window. So it may look like we're dressed and we're here, but the rest of our lives, from my perspective, feels like it's in turmoil.

It's illusion. It's an illusion.

Together.

Yeah, because internally, the sun comes up the next morning, whether you want it to or not, whether you feel bad or not, whether you feel like getting up or not. So you just get up and just do what needs to be done or neglect what needs to be done. We do both.

Jane, who had also been there every single day, often having to hear her missing daughter accused of a heinous crime, utilized a tactic she'd been taught during a week long grief seminar. During a particularly intensive therapy session, Jane was asked to visualize something in nature that would replace the horrible things she imagined happen to her daughter. Jane looked down and found a rock shaped as a heart. Since then, she's kept it in her pocket every day. I have my Bailey rock with me in court. So the smooth side and the rough side. So when I would get really anxious, I don't know if you guys saw me, but I'd have my rock in my hand and I rub it and I do my distraction thing. And Sweet Di, who also never missed a day being there for both Jane and Cheryl, for me, in the recent weeks, I feel like we've actually become even closer. You said that you guys felt like you got closer after the charges were even closer again. It's really strange. We know how things are affecting the other person. Micah was James's friend. And I was so affected last week.

I was so upset. Haven't been able to eat or sleep, and I'm channeling Lance and Cheryl and just. I didn't expect that to think, because we've always been close, but I didn't think it would even be even closer. And I know a lot of people were expecting us to fall apart and to unravel at the seams. Dye, who tends to be the quietest in the trio, then shared another thought she'd had during the trial. I've done a lot of. I believe, you know, I look at Matt sitting up there, and he's somebody'S know there's another mom grieving of what their child did to someone and was involved in. And so I've been thinking a lot about that. Not making excuses for him, but just how much she has to be hurting, too. There's the other side of the coin. There's the victim's families, and then there's the families that are wishing that their loved ones wouldn't have done know because they're in pain, too. When Di said that, I looked up at Jane and wondered if jurors or anyone who had heard the testimony during trial had thought the same thing about her. That she is a mother who is also hearing about their child being the suspect in a brutal crime.

By the time the trial started, it'd been two years since Bailey was charged with Micah's murder. When I first started trying to process that thought, Di was with me. I think Cheryl was at one of my counseling things. And it's just very hard. You're thinking about it, and then when you hear it come out of the words of law enforcement that this is true. But I don't know if it's exact true. I'm hoping one day her murder charges will be dismissed because that's not who she was at that time. So did I answer the question or did I get sidetracked? Jane's thoughts on this topic can often come across scattered. And I think a lot of that has to do with her working very hard to keep it together, especially if she's in public. I try not to feel emotion, because through all my counseling and therapy, in order to get information, you can't seem like you're crazy. It's been drilled into me. You can't fall apart in person, or law enforcement isn't going to talk to you because they'll be afraid you'll break down and leak stuff. And in court, during the hardest part of the trial for both Jane and Cheryl, Jane stayed composed for another reason.

I'm not going to give this motherfucking Matt Queen the satisfaction of seeing me cry over a lie that he's saying to try to defend himself. Queen's testimony about Micah's murder was a lot for them to sit through. He actually starts crying, talking about Cutting up my dead son. I'm all, what the heck? Who does that? Well, I guess he does. I don't know. And I just made me angry. And I know it's part of the process, but it just really. Even looking at all the other evidence and all the other photos and all the other stuff, him talking about that and calling Micah it, and when I needed to get it out of here, I couldn't stand it. I had to do something with it. I had to load it. It's like, okay, a minute ago he had a name, but now when you're talking about him, he's an it. Bailey could barely lift a 25 pound bag of dog food for her dog, much less 40 pound dead weight. Lift it up and drop it. I think you would have to drop it from a pretty high height to crutch somebody's skull. As the hours went by, there were brief moments in that room when the conversation was somewhat lighthearted, which gave little glimpses into how much simpler life once was for the moms.

This is especially apparent when at one point, Cheryl and Lance's love story came up and how carefree they were as newlyweds all those years ago. As Lance mentioned, they were going on 40 years of marriage. When is the big anniversary?

Less than a week.

The day before Micah's birthday, which makes it always a little bittersweet. But anyway, I don't know.

I mean, we haven't because. Overwhelmed.

Yeah. We've been very much in, very much in status quo, or just getting through the day one day at a time kind of thing. So. Thinking, celebrate. Well, we're just going to sit at a restaurant and stare at each other like we've been doing at home, because that's what we've been staring at each.

Other for 40 years. 42 years.

Right. So I don't know. I don't think I feel like celebrating at this point. I think someday I will feel like celebrating again. But right now, celebratory things are really hard for me. Most topics reverted back to the grief the moms were coping with. By the second full day of waiting for a verdict, it was nearly impossible to discuss anything other than what we thought jurors might be discussing. As the moms put it, what are they stuck on? Oftentimes, attorneys will say, if the jury comes back quickly, it's almost definitely a guilty verdict. If they're taking their time. The thought is, it's probably good for the defense. But the truth is, how can anyone really know? And at no point did any of the moms dare to say outright they were nervous? Which, as the hours went on, I came to realize that's because the emotion was so much more than just the anticipation and the uncertainty, especially for Cheryl. I recognized this as she talked about bouts of despair she went through during the trial. There are definitely pits where at least I've fallen and didn't know if I was waking up the next morning, just didn't know if I wanted to be there in the morning when the sun came up.

So that happens. But then there's also kind of this internal rage that I've had, and some of that has driven me, too. Like heck, you're going to get away with this, right? You just want to be there and watch this go down. And so now, no matter what the outcome, I'm fearful of the next steps because this theoretically will end this chapter for us. So now how do we continue to be a family that includes Micah that doesn't have. How. How do we maneuver that? It was something I'd never considered. What happens to a victim's family when everything's gone as far as it can through the criminal justice system? Their ride through it, whether getting the outcome they wanted or not, is over. By the third day of waiting, there was an air of anxiety in the room that was starting to feel more and more like a cement box. By 03:00 p.m. We knew jurors only had 1 hour left before it was the end of their day. Just as we were accepting we'd have to come back tomorrow. Cheryl's phone buzzed. The verdict was in. Everyone jumped up. And at first it felt something like excitement.

But as we shuffled into the elevator to head down to the courtroom, it shifted. It wasn't a feeling of dread, but a suspense so intense you felt like you could just cry. As we started to walk towards the courtroom, Cheryl let out a few sobs and began to tremble. Jane died. Lance and I took turns holding our hand. We all wanted to say, it'll be okay, but we knew we couldn't.

Remain seated. Come to order. Department for it now in session.

First count, we the jury and panel to try the above entitled Case Find the defendant Matthew Richard Queen, not guilty of felony, to wit, first degree murder of Micah Holtzenbase. We, the jury and panel to try the above entitled case find the following circumstances and aggravation to be not true. As to the crime charged in the first count of the information. The crime involves great violence, great bodily harm, threat of great bodily harm, or other acts disclosing a high degree of cruelty, viciousness and callousness. We the jury Empano to try the above entitled case, find the defendant Matthew Queen guilty of Felony, to wit, murder of Micah Holtenbase, murder in the second degree.

The verdict meant the jury did not find beyond a reasonable doubt that Micah's murder was premeditated or that it involved Micah being kidnapped and tortured. But it also meant they didn't fully believe Queen's story either, that he was merely trying to wrestle a gun out of Micah's hand to protect himself. When Bailey dropped a weight on Micah's head, the second degree conviction felt almost like a middle ground between the two sides. It took 45 minutes for the jury to read their verdicts on the remaining charges Queen was facing. In total, he was acquitted of ten and convicted of 25. For the first time, Queen wore a mask in court, making it harder to see what, if any, reaction he had. When we walked out of the courtroom, the mom seemed stunned, a little confused. It felt like I was in the wrong courtroom at first. And then I think that's when I realized, okay, I am obviously not processing this. My brain is not processing this. And so I'm going to rely on Di or I'm going to rely on Lance or I'm going to wait and talk to, you know, the DA and get the information, because obviously I'm not thinking clearly.

Immediately after the verdict, prosecutor Smith quickly reassured the moms that Queen was still facing a lengthy sentence given all the other crimes he was convicted of. And even though jurors didn't believe the murder happened the way that Smith and investigators thought it did, they still got a murder conviction. Even if it was the lesser offense. As we walked out of the courthouse that day, you could sense the sheer exhaustion coming from the moms. Jane said. She needed time to process everything. It's hard to explain how I feel because I have been not letting myself fill things for so long. I feel happy he'll never get out of jail, that he was found guilty and going to move on and still fight to find Bailey. Cheryl said all she wanted was to go home and sleep for a week. Maybe now we can just rest. Before Cheryl left, a woman walked up to her and introduced herself as Sergeant Garrett's wife. Cheryl immediately embraced her and again began to cry, Cheryl says, We've taken her husband away from her and her family for a long time, and we're so grateful. About a month later, the moms threw their third annual golf tournament, raising money for secret witness so cases could have rewards.

It was held at the nicest golf course and Country Club in town. Dozens of businesses were there offering free services, just glad to have a presence at what had become a popular local event. The moms raised $20,000 that day. The next morning, we were back at court for Matt Queen's sentencing. Before the judge would announce how long Queen would spend behind bars, Cheryl was given the chance to address the court. Here are some excerpts from her statement. We deeply appreciate everyone who has acknowledged Micah as a valuable man deserving of a thorough investigation. Despite decisions and behaviors near the end of his life, Micah was so much more than his last few years was. So much more. Micah was murdered, dismembered and thrown out like trash throughout the county.

He was stolen from us.

He is ours. He has always been ours. And now only God knows where most of his body lies. Our family has been traumatized for more than four years. Fighting our way back from very dark places has been and continues to be unbelievably hard. And even after all of these individual blows, we still aim here to hear.

It all.

Because he is ours and he is purely loved. As I began, there is no beauty in all of this. The won't we have loved cannot be restored to us. But we respectfully ask that the maximum sense allowed by law handed down in this matter. Then Matthew Queen was given a chance to speak. Here are some excerpts from his statement.

I thought of a lot about what I would say to my best parent, even chance. But I don't know how to put into words like how guilt, remorse, sorrow, disappointment, shame could overwhelm me. And to simply tell you that I'm sorry is not enough and I know that you were told some pretty horrific stories about how Michael must have died. And now you have the truth. And I'm sorry it took so long to get here. All I can hope for is that you see that I'm not the monster you would like to believe I was. No matter how hard they tried or how hard they wanted to be right, they were wrong. They're wrong about what happened, like, and they're wrong about me. I do have a heart. For what it's worth, my heart goes up to you. I love my children more than I love my own life. And I know that you love yours no less than I love mine. Which is why I'm trying to express how sorry I am. No matter what's been said about me, no one can deny that I love my kids. And if you can see me in that light for just a moment, then maybe for that moment, you'll believe me when I tell you that story.

Not everything comes tomorrow.

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Or was she just there and terrified, and maybe that's why she went missing? But you think it was more than that? You think it was more than know, being the girlfriend who was.

Yes. There's even testimony in both the prelim and the trial where she made comments to people that she was going to kill him if she got the chance to do so. She expressed her hatred towards him, and she was Queen's girl, just like one of the other subjects in the case referenced, he referred to them as Bonnie and Clyde. And that's a pretty good analogy because they were both involved in things together. Jane minimizes her daughter's possible involvement, and I constantly have that conversation with her, and I just keep reminder, just because she was alleged to be involved in something doesn't mean that's who she is as a person.

I knew her answer. But after the trial, I asked Jane anyways, do you think that Bailey killed Micah? No, I don't. Until I see evidence beyond a reasonable doubt. If she was made to do something like that, why would she want to do that to Micah when she would tell me he would help her? So I don't know what her motive was. I've asked, what would Bailey's motive be for killing Micah or helping in his murder? There's Queen's account, and then there's investigators'theory that the murder stemmed from a stolen gun. But myself and others have questioned if that's really why. Remember Bailey's friend Molly, who said Queen threatened her at gunpoint twice? She testified at the trial about the missing gun debacle. She said it all started at a small New Year's Eve party at Queen's house to ring in 2018. It was an intimate gathering, just her and her exboyfriend Alex Bailey, Queen and Micah. She says everyone was drinking and having a good time until Queen realized one of his guns was gone. Here's her testimony. He got very angry and came to me and accused my baby's father and then went and accused Micah.

How was he acting?

Horrible. Just a note here. Molly often refers to her ex as her baby's father. Anyhow, she testified that she was adamant then and now that her ex did not take the gun, leaving Micah as the suspected thief. Prosecutor Eric Smith then presented text messages between Molly and Bailey from one week after Micah's murder. The texts implied that Molly felt she was getting blamed for the missing gun, and she wasn't happy about it.

Direct your attention to. This is from March 30, 2018. You send a text that says, he got my ass in a lot of shit, almost killed?

Yes.

Okay. Who's the he?

Micah.

And you, continue. But he stole from the wrong person, and ever since, nobody can get a hold of him. To your best, your recollection, who are we talking about?

Micah. I'd seen this text exchange before in police reports that built the case against Queen. The messages appeared to support the theory that everyone thought Micah stole the gun and that Bailey and Queen were still upset about it several months later. But then Queen's attorney, Tim Hennessy, got up to Question Molly about those same messages.

Do you remember the text we saw up there earlier?

Yes.

And you're saying that you believe who you're discussing there is Micah.

Yes.

Okay. Now, if I were to say that text thread began with the question, have you seen Alex lately? Does that change your memory at all about who you're talking to in those texts?

I don't remember exactly, but I would assume it would be Micah. Again, Alex is Molly's ex. Hennessy then handed Molly the full printed out text conversation.

Does that help you remember that text conversation better?

Yes.

Okay. And who you're talking to there about stole from the wrong person, things like that. You're talking about Alex, correct?

Yes. And there it was. Those text messages actually weren't about Micah after all. It wasn't a dramatic moment in court, though. It was dropped after that. I wondered at one point if I was the only person who thought it was significant. And then later on, I went through the police reports that discussed the same text messages. And now, knowing they were about Alex, they took on a new meaning. As within this same conversation, Molly literally says to Bailey, yeah, he stole it. But it wasn't done without the permission of you both letting him into Matthew's house. I know this may be starting to get a little convoluted, and as my old boss, Michael Trihe, would say, a little too inside baseball. But hear me out. If the theory is Queen and Bailey murdered Micah because they thought he stole Queen's gun on New Year's, then why are they still seemingly grilling Molly about her ex boyfriend taking the gun seven days after the murder? And if that really is why Micah was killed, how absolutely shocking and devastating that one week later, Molly admitted that it was in fact her ex boyfriend who stole the gun.

To be clear, the prosecution doesn't have to prove a motive for a murder to get a conviction. They just have to prove it happened. But obviously, everyone wants to know why. And outside of what was said in court, the speculation was endless. I was unsure whether to even mention this, but in the event, someone listening is wondering if Bailey's sexual assault could have played a role, there is an abundance of evidence that says no. Bailey was severely affected by her attack, and many People say she didn't want anyone, but especially any man, to think they could hurt her again. As Sergeant Garrett puts it, she's trying.

To get her power back. Of the people that took power from her.

We know Bailey distrusted a lot of men, but by all accounts, Micah wouldn't have been one of them. Even people who said Micah was erratic at times towards the end of his life, all agreed he was fiercely against women being taken advantage of or harmed. It'd seem if anyone in that friend group would be an ally to Bailey, it would have been him. Some have questioned maybe Micah and Bailey were having an affair and Queen found out about it, but there's been nothing to prove that at all. I've heard a couple people say maybe Micah helped Bailey terminate her pregnancy with Queen's baby and Queen found out, but there's no evidence to prove that either. Though I have definitely thought about the timing of Bailey's pregnancy loss. Of everyone I've spoken with, no one could say for certain if Bailey miscarried or if she took the abortion pill. They tell me they either weren't sure or couldn't remember. Regardless, it appears Bailey's pregnancy came to an end within a day or two after Micah's murder. Here's a clip from an interview between Sergeant Garrett and Matt Vander Castile. The context is that Vander Castile was saying, after Micah's murder, things between Bailey and Matt Queen were bad.

Did you know that him and Bailey were fighting? She had a miscarriage. He beat the shit out of her. When that happened, he fucked her mom's whole bathroom up at her house. Why? Because he thinks that she intentionally killed the baby.

In a previous episode, you heard Jane discuss going out of town for a couple days and returning to find her shower door replaced and other changes made to her bathroom. Bailey told her then that she had had a miscarriage in the shower and she was the one who'd caused the damage. It's possible that in either scenario, miscarriage or abortion, the timing isn't significant. Purely coincidental, but it's also a possibility that if she miscarried, the extreme stress and trauma for Micah's murder could have contributed to that occurring. On the other hand, if she chose to terminate her pregnancy, it's possible that Micah's murder impacted that decision. I think I've spent so much time thinking about this because it goes to the question of what was going on in Bailey's mind around this time. A week after Micah's murder and her pregnancy loss, Bailey posted photos on Facebook of a box of chocolates, roses, and a stuffed animal, as well as a shirtless mirror photo of Queen. The post caption read, I'm a lucky lady. It's a pretty standard thing for a 20 year old girl to do, subtly brag on social media about how great their boyfriend is.

Though it's hard to imagine that Bailey's mindset then was similar to that of other girls her age, trying to curate an image that says to the world, look how happy I am. Look how good my life is. It's hard to imagine it could be that simple. You know, we have a lot of questions here, Cheryl. The Wi she's referring to is her and Lance, her husband and Micah's father. We would like to talk to her. We would love to know what happened, but she's not here. And we believe she has already paid more than the price of her participation in Micah's murder. We believe that her life was taken because she knew too much, participated, whatever. There are several theories about Bailey's disappearance, but by far the most prominent is that Matthew Queen killed her. And he did it because, as Lance said from day one of the case, Micah's dead and she knew too much. But even before anyone ever thought about Queen being involved in Micah's disappearance and murder, Queen already looked suspicious to many in Bailey's case, which is not surprising. I even said to him once, you're her boyfriend and the last one to see her, of course you're going to be a suspect.

It's nothing personal. But aside from just that, other things piled up early on. For one, Queen told detectives that shortly after Bailey left his house, he met up with her to give her some of her clothes and then watched her get into a car with a man and never saw her again. According to police reports. Using cell phone data, investigators cannot corroborate his story. But Sergeant Garrett did, however, notice that the last outgoing phone call made from Bailey's phone on the day she disappeared, connected to a cell tower by Matt Queen's brother's home. The same brother Queen said this about on a recorded call to his wife. Your tools are still here, and he.

Has to take those to the job right away. Yeah, go get them right now, because they listen to everything I say right now.

When questioned, Queen's brother admitted that tools were code for guns and that he hid Queen's guns before the cops could get to them. Which led investigators to wonder, what other evidence might his brother have helped Queen get rid of? The suspicion surrounding Bailey's phone activity didn't end there. I had been messaging her on Snapchat, trying to get her attention, see if I could get her to respond, because on Snapchat, I could see if she opened my message and it would tell me when, and it would give me a. So this is Bailey's friend, Maddie describing an incident that took place a few weeks after Bailey's disappearance. And randomly one day, she opened my message, and she started to type back. And I was like, oh, my gosh. And I'm waiting and know nothing. I'm like, okay, what the heck? So I start typing back, and I'm like, who is know who has Bailey's phone? What are you doing? Like, answer me. And so I start calling it and calling it and nothing. And then I get a message back, and it's from Queen. And he tells me, oh, this is Bailey's boyfriend. I have her phone.

I'm like, crazy. Because you didn't have her phone, which disappeared a few weeks ago. So how do you have it know? I went off on him. I did. I was pissed. There's no indication Bailey's physical phone has ever been found. But when Queen was arrested on a firearm charge a month after Bailey went missing, the phone he had on him that day had a SIM card that was attached to Bailey's phone number. So in theory, it would seem Queen could make calls or send messages from Bailey's last known number. I don't know what, if anything, Queen has told investigators about the SIM card, but the limited reports I have show he did admit to monitoring Bailey's social media accounts after she went missing. He said he did it in hopes it would help him figure out where she was. His admission, in my opinion, complicates her case and the ability to determine if social media activity from her accounts was her doing or Queen's. Back in the summer of 2018, when I'd just begun looking into the case, someone reached out to me about a strange message they received on Snapchat from Bailey's account and sent me a screenshot.

It was bizarre. Started out with a lot of profanity and accused this person of having involvement with people who, quote, make a business out of abducting women. Then it went on to reference a Bible verse. It was aggressive and seemed nonsensical, and it ended with, quote, this is not a game you wish to play. And then there's that Facebook message that her friend Jessica got a couple days after Bailey was last seen. Prosecutor Eric Smith read it aloud during Queen's trial.

I fucked up. I need to disappear for a little while.

Smith seemed to use the message as evidence pointing to Bailey being involved with Micah's murder. But Jessica saw it differently. So I thought that was so weird, because I'm like, normally, she doesn't even write like that. I don't even know if that's her that wrote it. Queen adamantly denies sending any messages pretending to be Bailey after she went missing. But since he admitted to accessing her Facebook, how can law enforcement know for sure who sent it? Jessica also shared what I thought was interesting information about how Queen would drop by her house unannounced after Bailey's disappearance and talk to her about numerous different groups of people he thought could be involved. He mentioned the Hells Angels a lot. Queen also told people when Bailey left, she said she was going to stay with her, quote, cartel connected family. This reminded me of Micah's trial when prosecutor Eric Smith grilled Queen for starting rumors that the Hells Angels and the cartel could be involved in Micah's disappearance. Another thing that stands out is the timing of Queen's preliminary hearing from the gun charges he was facing and Bailey going missing the next day. I asked Sergeant Garrett what he thinks about that.

I mean, it's definitely part of the case. Can't go much further into that because it's still an active case, but definitely something to take note of.

You might remember a couple weeks before Micah went missing, Bailey gave a recorded interview to Dave Brown, a private investigator working for Queen's defense team at the time. In that interview, Bailey said the guns found in Queen's car were hers and that she put them there without his knowledge. She told Brown she had started carrying around guns after she was sexually assaulted by multiple men. I've often wondered if at that hearing, Bailey was supposed to testify on Queen's behalf or if her statement was to be presented to the judge in hopes the case against Queen would be thrown out. The attorneys involved won't discuss it with me, but in transcripts from the hearing, there isn't a mention of Bailey taking responsibility for the guns. In fact, Bailey is barely mentioned at all. And when Queen eventually went to trial for the gun case, once again, Bailey's deposition was not mentioned. So it's unclear to me how important Bailey's statement really was and what, if anything, the timing of her disappearance and the hearing have to do with each other. Here's the private investigator who used to be part of Queen's defense team, Dave Brown.

If Matthew Queen killed her, which I believe he did, okay, it wouldn't make any sense for him to kill her because of our statement.

Brown makes a good point. Logically, you'd think if you were fighting charges for something that someone else said they'd take the blame for, you'd think you'd want that person around. But as Brown says, we now know Queen and Bailey had much more to worry about than just those gun charges.

I think at some point, and especially after their crimes, possibly together, she was probably trying to get away from him because he was just going over the, you know, I just think that, again, with her knowing everything she knew that he just believed know, I've got to get rid of this Lucianne. And I think that's what happened. That's my personal opinion.

Here's Bailey's sister, Caitlin. There is absolutely no way she could have witnessed all of that. And Queen thinking that she would be able to keep her mouth shut and not talk about it. A couple guys tied to the circle of friends said the same thing. Essentially, Bailey wouldn't be the person you would want to commit a crime with. Here's one of them.

The few times I'd hung around with her, couldn't get her to stop talking. I mean, she might have been involved, but I think she would have told. I don't think she would have kept quiet about, like, I don't think her psych would have allowed her to do that. And I think that's part of why she's not around.

During an interview between Sergeant Garrett and Matt Van de Castile, Sergeant Garrett expanded on this possible loose end theory. It came up in discussion when Sergeant Garrett brought up Sarah, Vanda Castile's ex and Bailey's friend, who started dating Queen after Bailey went missing. Sarah has always maintained she doesn't know what happened to Micah or Bailey. Eventually, she did tell prosecutors she remembered a night around the time Micah went missing where Queen and Bailey came over and Bailey was acting a little strange and asked if she could borrow clothes. But that's it. Anyhow. Sergeant Garrett suggests to Vanda Castile maybe Sarah could know more and is protecting Queen, who at this point, she had just had a baby with.

That's a whole other interesting caveat to the dynamic of them because Micah goes missing, right? Matt thought, you know, possibly snitching, possibly cheating, who knows what. But ultimately, she's kind of a loose link, right? That could get him caught up for whatever happened to Micah. All of a sudden, she goes missing. Right? You're locked up. So the only missing link for the people at your house that night that know what's going on is Sarah. It's the whole keep your friends close, enemies closer dynamic, almost, right. To me, it kind of outside looking in seems kind of weird. Being inside looks fucking weird.

Their conversation seems to suggest that Queen may have quickly coupled up with Sarah because she potentially knew things Queen didn't want her to share but at the end of the day, it's all just theories. Including the discussion that Queen may be involved with Bailey's disappearance in order to silence her. It appears no one has ever told law enforcement that they have direct knowledge that Queen did anything to Bailey, including Matt Vandercastile. Despite how convincing he may have sounded when he said this on the phone to Sarah.

I'm gonna tell you straight up. Bailey's in the same fucking place that Mike is.

Vander Castile did have information that was key in solving Micah's case. But when it came to Bailey, like so many others, he told Sergeant Garrett all he had was just a hunch.

I don't think she would just have to leave. I really don't.

Vande Castile elaborated on what others said about Bailey being someone you wouldn't want as your partner in crime.

Everyone has thought Bailey's been a snitch. Honestly, I think Bailey was. I think Bailey realized that she got herself at some point, too deep into something and tried to get out of it, but got pulled deeper in.

Vander Castile's response didn't quite answer why he or anyone would think Bailey was a snitch. But I find what he said very telling nonetheless. I don't take reporting such serious allegations against someone lightly. Especially when the person hasn't been charged with the crime they're being accused of. Queen has never been charged in connection with Bailey's disappearance. And he deserves the opportunity to respond to what's been said about him. Since the day I first came across Bailey and Micah's cases, I've tried hard to speak with him, both when he was a free man and since he's been in custody. Whether it was showing up at his front door or trying to communicate with him through his attorney. For five years, nothing worked. And I couldn't wait forever. This story would have to be released without him. And just when that was about to happen, my phone rang. This is Global tell Link.

You have a prepaid call from Matthew Queen.

That's next time on the final episode of the Bakersfield Three.

It's that time of year where everyone knows that anything goes. Yes, even sprouts with your spring rolls. You crazy genius. Tis the season. You don't need a reason. So warm your soul with a burrito bowl. Have fish and chips when you fancy. Order noodles at noon. The rules are there are no rules. From big brands to local favorites. It's all on your doorstep with Deliveroo geographical restrictions, t p service and delivery fees apply.

Parenting can be tough, but you're not alone. Join us on growing pains, the I. E. Parenting podcast series from the Irish Examiner. From toddler tantrums to teenage tempers, smartphones to social media bullying to setting boundaries. Get expert advice from Joanna Fortune, Richard Hogan, and Coleman Nocter.

Parenting is aspirational. It's not something that we ever master.

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