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And we are ready and we are ready, we are back, we are here in our brand new episode of The Bald and the Beautiful. That's right, Trixie, I couldn't agree with you more.


And today we have somebody who is both bald and beautiful.


Yeah, she's a living legend and a Renaissance person. Mm hmm. And the inventor of most things that you're probably familiar with at home, computer, computer, Internet, the wheel. Yeah, most cutlery, many languages.


Honestly, one of the most respected drag queens on the planet who all of us aspire to be like, it's Jackie Beat.


Jackie Beat. How are you guys? It's me coming to you live through modern technology. I have to say, we don't even have to get near each other. I love it.


You're not used to the remoteness of it. I see you on the Instagram's all the time. I did your show.


I did your show too. I had a blast.


Yeah, I'm not very tech savvy, as they say. I thought you were gonna say I'm not very sexy yet. Oh, I'm. I'm terribly sexy.


Terribly, terribly. I'm horribly turned on.


My my look is buckyball clown. That's what I call it. Yeah. My look is unfixable clown. No she's she's playing hard to get. She's you're playing hard to get. Yeah. Yeah.


So where should we start your illustrious drag career. I want to start with the facelifts.


Oh let's start with, let's just say yeah. You guys start where you want to start. Do your fucking job. Yeah.


I can't tell this. I do. I have to ask one question. Where are you physically right now?


We're in my house. This is my living room. OK, what is that? Artwork by Jackie. I don't get into it with me.


She said the first thing she's going to do is make fun of this painting. I said the first thing she's going to do is make fun of me.


Oh, I didn't realize it was you. Oh, do you remember when we went out to dinner and my background on my phone was myself and you were like, are you kidding me right now? And then I took out my retainer and put it on the table. And you were like, Where are you from?


Oh, wait a minute. Where was that? It was some weird place we were in Australia. I remember it like it was yesterday because Sherry was telling us tales from the road, as it were, on Craigslist.


Yeah, it was weird. And Bob the drag queen was there.


Yes, Bob the drag queen was there. We were on like a gig. It was like a comedy queens tour in Australia. Yes. Wait a minute.


I was in Australia with you, Katja, also. You were night. I don't believe that. Oh, that's what I meant.


Yes, you were, weren't you? So now we've been to we had many good times in many good places. But Australia. Amsterdam, yeah.


To start with an A and you were fucked up anyway. It was not better but it was fine. I was fine. Oh my God. It's like you don't even know they started with an AA.


Oh honey. And airline with a no I don't know. OK, so that picture is it very nice. Do not listen. Nobody should put up with a drag queen who doesn't have pictures of herself all over the place. I'm just not a big fan of pastels. So when I didn't see all I saw was the bottom half and I didn't like it. And now that I see your face, I like it even less.


Anyway, if you didn't like pastels, this house would be your nightmare.


It's all pink pastels. It's aggressive, it's aggressive, it's aggressive. It's the most dramatic.


Tell you that my I had a giant bedroom in a giant loft in New York, like two blocks from Ground Zero right at the South Street Seaport back in the 90s. And my bedroom was purple glitter. The walls were purple glitter. I was really into like Powerpuff Girls then, like, it was just very 90s. And now if you see my house, it's very cubist and brutalist and rustic reptilian. It's kind of butch and it's sort of like Acapulco.


Nineteen sixty eight meets Planet of the Apes and like sort of futuristic but retro futuristic. I don't know how to explain it.


Well, is this this this is your old place.


People can Google the pictures of your old place, which was like breathtaking. Is this the place where you do the kitchen lives at now? Yes.


Yes. The old place I described as a.. Maimon acid and every room had a color scheme.


And it was really like sort of 60s and 70s. This house is more it's a darker it's sort of like the future, but it's disintegrating.


I don't know how to explain it.


Are we talking about the house still? Oh, my. I know my cat Stevens. They're relatively new.


I have to say, if we can move away from my interior decor to your exterior decor. Yeah. They really snatched. You look great. They cost you up like a pig, didn't they? Thank you. I had my neck done. Okay, so what is the procedure? What is the actual like, you know, rhinoplasty, the nose job? Was this called it's called getting to know if this was the technical term for it. Is fixing old bitch's neck?


No, it's an above the shoulder vaginal rejuvenation. Now, here's what it is.


I looked like a sock puppet with the hand pulled out of it. I am not only 57, but I have gained and lost 100 pounds like six times in my life. So you fill it up, you empty it out, you fill it up, you empty it out. You know what I'm talking about? Yeah. So it was a mess and it was the one thing that always drove me crazy and I always put my finger.


But listen, that's what is explains why all the pictures you were always one finger. Yeah. You're like, oh, don't look, don't here.


Let me put my hand exactly where I don't want you to look.


But it's so snatched, but the thing is, that's freaking me out a little bit is, first of all, like you get rid of all the extra, but now there's like. You know, like. So you draw lines, OK, but it looks great in because you're pulling it and you look right in your neck in drag and lit with tons of makeup, beep, boop, doodle doo. I'm so thrilled, but chunks of my face are still fucking numb, you guys.


Oh, no, no, no. Yeah. Like, that's not it's a great time to get into choking Jackie. Oh, wait a minute. I love why you can't feel it. Why do it?


So I'm not going to say any mean things about Sherry Vyn. She's not even here to, like, burst into tears.


No. Here's the thing.


I love the way Katie was just about to say, like, that's not normal, but I guess it really is. It takes a while for it to all come back. And then I sort of resigned myself that honey, if it doesn't come back, like, I don't need my feeling right here and right here, who gives a shit?


I look good. You don't see it and feel it. Yeah. All those people poking you in the jowls, it's like whatever. My scariest thing was the first time I entertained a gentleman caller. I was a little nervous when you first have it done, it's much more brutal than people think. So if you think, well, you think it's just skin being pulled. No, it's the muscle, like there's a wall of numb muscle under here, like behind my ears looks like Frankenstein.


So like I said, my biggest fear was the first time. I'll just say it. I sucked a fucking huge dick.


So you've sung about it.


Might as well be gone.


I know, but I used to sing about it and not ever really do live in the lived reality is a little bit.


I'll never forget the baby got front video. The number of looks in that video, in that video, I don't know, I don't think so. Yeah, it's so funny because it was one of the first things I ever did with Austin Young. And we were in my apartment where Nadia Ginzberg lives now, my Heliotrope apartment. And I just thought, let's literally do like, what was it like 13 or 14 different. Looks like grandma. Yeah.


You know, like sort of Bollywood. There's a lady. There's like a Manson girl. How long did I said, let's let's literally just do a look.


I'll sing the song wants change and just do it and then you can have fun just editing. And it was just look after, look after look. But the same makeup is very effective.


I mean, that's the thing about drag though. If you're the thing, it's not like you have to build a set.


Yeah. You want to make my money. I invented that. You invented doing nothing. I love that song with you in Alaska. That's like a it's a. So what did you invent? Everything in drag. Why is that. Why are you. Is that your thing? Because you started doing drag when like in I started doing drag relatively late. If you really think about it, like as far as you know, some people start like when they're, you know, nineteen.


I started in nineteen eighty nine in your 40s.


Yes, exactly. Why can't you be this funny when the cameras are rolling. Oh I, I saw your little documentary.


Look at the way I look and drag it puts me in such an awful mood. Nothing's funny. Oh my God. Can I just say Sherry was talking about that the other day on like some Instagram live she was doing. She's like, I still love drag and I love drag and it's fun. And I'm like, honey, if it's fun, you're not doing it right. Yeah, I aspire literally how I feel.


I aspire to show up like you to gigs like.


Yeah, we were on tour, we would pull up to like a beautiful hotel and she would look at it and go like is that it has a texture to I am a naturally grateful, courageous person.


It's such a refined level of gratitude, though. Can't really, really become nobody can pick up on it. Now, what was I going to say?


Oh, my God. Oh, my God. My brain. Oh, we asked you when you started doing drag. Yeah. What age were you? You said late start. I believe I had the same late start.


Well I started in nineteen eighty nine which makes you where you were. How I was born in nineteen sixty three. Interesting.


So twenty four. Something like that. Is that right. Nineteen ninety six. Twenty six. I started when I was twenty five so that's interesting. Yeah. Did you ever have to ask like I'm thirty one and I can't believe sometimes I still do drag. When was your point of like when you first started, were you like surprised how long you've been able to do it. I mean come on. Well, it's a totally different world than it was there was literally first of all, I didn't even know these people like I was going to say there was eight people.


No, I'm saying there was Bunny, Cherry Vine, Joey Areas, Bartlett, Jean Mirman, Cocoa, Peru. And when I started, it was before I even really knew that world. So I just I didn't start it like with any idea of a career. Nobody thought you could make money at it. Are you fucking crazy?


Really? You could do one of those ladies. I say this all the time. There were gay bars that wouldn't let drag queens in. There were people, you know, like running gay pride that were like no drag queens this year. We're just, you know, that's all the news ever shows. It's embarrassing. We are fighting for our rights. We need to take this seriously, you know, so.


So when I started, a bunch of us just did drag for Halloween one year, and I just noticed that I did it. You know, with a level attention to detail that they didn't have and they took it very fucking seriously, and I did sort of a almost like a Joanne Worli meets Phyllis. I don't know if you've ever seen Phyllis from the from The Mary Tyler Moore Show. It's I bet Nellie has. I'm too young. Yeah.


So this really wild sort of 60s look that I did the first year. And then I think like a couple of years after that, I did. I did. Shelley Winters in The Poseidon Adventure, which is really fun because you just find a dress and you're like kind of burn it up one side and rip it and then like, get it wet and you have like a happy New Year hat off to one side and your makeup is dripping and you have one shoe because it's the Poseidon Adventure.


You guys are making faces like you don't know the fucking Poseidon Adventure.


I don't. I do. I do. Oh, it's unacceptable.


Is that like is that was that the two Wong food before too long? No, no, no, not exactly. But I just did a book called Movies That Made US Gay and mine was The Poseidon Adventure.


There's this scene where Pamela Sue Martin, it's about a ship, a giant luxury liner.


You don't have to go, but I think I do. Yeah. Yeah.


Why that turns upside down this road where the Titanic.


So people are like flying all over the place and then they have to climb through the ship up to the bottom of the ship to get out and the fucking 70s hairstyles and fashions. And there's one scene that I'm convinced is like, OK, Pamela, Sue Martin is wearing a red velvet maxi dress with sort of a.


You know, like men's tuxedo, adjacent top, like everyone looks amazing, and after the ship turns over, he's like, you can't climb in that skirt and she rips the skirt off and she has matching red velvet hot pants and a reveal a life or death reveal.


Right, right.


And then later in the movie, Stella Stevens does the ultimate shrubland like you've got to see this.


My God. So I've I have learned that my favorite movies are where everyone gets all dressed up in their best 70s fashions and hairstyles to have the time of their life. And then their big beaming smiles turned to looks of horror in slow motion when they realized that all hell is breaking loose. So The Poseidon Adventure and Carrie Carrie, I had the pleasure of reading Carrie last year.


It was a nice little. Have you obviously you've read it.


It's not a great book. Thank you. Even he admits it. I said I liked it. I thought it's definitely different from the movie. I did liked it. It's told like entirely and like an interview with a neighbor. A news clipping, wasn't it? Yeah, it is. But in the book carries like, horribly disgusting. Yeah. And then in the film has a super makeover waiting for.


I don't know if the audience knows about your legendary relationship with the movie. Carrie, you want to speak on that? Sure. Well, you were cast as Carrie.


You said, I don't really want to do this, so you didn't do it right, because I know Carrie is from nineteen seventy six.


So I saw it when I was 13 years old in the theater, and it fucking changed my life. I will never forget.


First of all, the opening is a bunch of girls, you know, full frontal like 70s Bush Bush right in the shower room and you know, she gets her period. It's just unbelievable. The movie, it's. Hideous and gorgeous and campy and sad, so that kind of like, you know, infused me with all of that for my drag.


But I remember watching the prom scene and, you know, they teach it in film class. It's it's amazing, just the saturated colors. And it's sort of like the shower scene in Psycho. It's just very perfectly timed and thought out and just obsessed, just obsessed with that movie.


And I think one of the reasons is because the theme or the moral of the story is don't mess with the freak.


Yeah, yeah. But it's like the underdogs revenge fantasy. Totally. What are their films? These are they're like that are kind of comparable to that revenge.


Even know if it's revenge because she is so out of control. You know, a lot of people are like, how come she killed the the the the gym teacher? She was nice to her. And I'm like, honey, the scene where she sees everyone laughing at her, there's a reason he used like a prism. It's almost like a kaleidoscope because that's in her head. Her mother planted it in her head that everyone was going to laugh at her.


So she thinks everyone is laughing when just a few people are laughing and she's completely out of control. Her telekinetic powers, you know, coincide with her period. So you become a woman and then, you know. So anyway, so she's just killing people left and right, willy nilly, willy nilly.


I like how focused they are in the book and the film about like the guys can smell your blood about like your period. Who can smell.


I think in the book they drove it home more, but it's very like you have your blood, you can smell it.


It is true. I mean, you know, you can't you can't really. Well, I mean, their pheromones, I mean, you know, like. It's like a you know, it's anything like, you know, your fucking crotch and your pit. It's like silence is disgusting, clear cut. Yeah, now, anyway, I just love it, I love the movie so much, I think I mean, did you when you did you take the time to see the remake?


Did you leave or did you not live? I'm the list I want to hear how much you I barely fucking lived, I barely survived, I was doing that so well, you know what it is to make five more dollars and I don't know. It's horrible. First of all, she's literally reaching out and doing this pantomime thing. Like when when? Like moving like her hand is picking it up like a phantom. It's horrible. I hate it so much.


I can't even put it in.


You know, I did like one part of it.


I did like Julianne Moore stabbing herself in the leg with that sewing thing. Yeah. I mean, there were little moments like that. But I mean, listen, I get it. I know that the translation if there were subtitles right now, it would just say, I'm old, I'm old, I'm old, I'm old.


But it's like I love this movie.


So I don't want you know, to me, the original is fairly perfect. There are a few things that I don't love about it like. Did you say like what? All I thought was this ready to drag? Well, he does like he speeds up the film when they're shopping for tuxedos. And it's just weird and it doesn't really work, but he said Brian De Palma is who we're talking about. Brian De Palma said that he used the split screen way too much.


But I disagree.


I love it so much. It's really it's very effective. Did you see in fabric, Jackie? No. Oh, my God. You've got to see and thought you hated it, right?


I did hate it, but it really could have been made by. You've got to see it. You've got to see it. It's about a killer dress, a dress that is like a purse that when people wear it like they get killed and it's shot a lot like Carrie. It's I mean, in that it's so bizarre. They have this department store that's all like run by witches and they have these giant huge, like bouffant wigs and they dressing these like funeral clothes from the 70s.


Wait a minute. It's a department store run by witches. Yes.


So so Neiman Marcus, you know, it is it's very Neiman Marcus because they give you that kind of personalized personal service. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.


And they have this they use this language like, you know, the everything sounds like like an ornate kind of poem. It's like the recesses of your purchase will ring out into the retail sphere.


It's so bizarre. It's just like, OK, thank you. You have to see how to watch it. Want to see it. You would love it. I feel like you would love, love, love it. If you didn't like it, I'd be.


You never know, you know. And as we know, Jackie, your taste is very you're easy to please.


Yeah. You like any you know, what can I just say?


The older I get, the more I can appreciate. First of all, when I watch something, I can't help but think how many people worked so hard on this. Yeah.


So they get credit just for that. Sometimes that's the thing that bothers me.


Like how many people worked so hard on this and they still fucked it up or it's the worst story and I can't believe anybody made this movie. But yeah, I mean, I've been watching like just the other day I watched The Black Godfather, which is a great documentary about this guy that I'd never even heard of. And he's worked with every one, like he produced like it was all about Soul Train, which was so amazing. Anyway, so that's a great movie.


I just watched Soul, which is the Disney. Did you love it? I loved it. So did you guys.


I cried seven minutes in when he got at the piano and everything goes blue and he's in his own little world playing the piano. I started bawling. It looked so gorgeous. Is that how you feel about cross-dressing? Yes, exactly.


No, but I do have these moments where I'm so over blown by. It gives me faith in humanity. Like I remember. This is such a specific memory and it's not even like I remember.


Oh, my God, what is the. The. Inc., which like I don't think I've ever seen it since I saw it, you know, when it came out in the theater, but there's a scene where all those skeletons are like dancing and they're they're like lit from one side with these like red and then blue and then green. I just was like, I loved that so much. And it made me emotional. I love things like that that just hit me like a ton of bricks.


I cried at the Very Brady Christmas last week, the TV made for TV movie about the mall trying to get home for Christmas. Yeah, I mean, if it gets me, it gets me. I do love The Brady Bunch, Jackie. Right?


I love The Brady Bunch. Does it is that the one that has the line? Don't be sorry. Just be Walli. No, this the one where they're all trying to get them for Christmas. And I don't know if I remember in the first season of The Brady Bunch, Carol Brady sings at church. And you know, that actress, her voice, Florence's voice is like the really perfect God.


That episode is called A Christmas Carol because her name was Carol. Gonna see with. And she gets laryngitis or as Cyndi Brady calls it, Larry Giada's itis. That's right. Right. Yes.


And she she tells the drug, the sorry department store, Santa Clause.


All I want is for my mommy to get her voice back and and magic and then does it really happen?


Of course.


She sings Oh Come All Ye Faithful. And then in the made for TV movie, you know, all these years later, Mike Brady's in a collapsed building because he's he's an architect on this set. And these people are like, no, we want to do it cheap. And he's like, it's not safe. And they're like, you're fired. We're doing this cheap. So then it collapses while he's in it. And then he can't figure out how to get out of the rubble.


And she starts singing, Oh, come all ye faithful. And the whole audience joins in and he gets out of the rubble because he could hear her voice singing, Girl, I was crying so hard.


I know. And then you add the layer that they were best friends in real life and he was a closeted gay man and he couldn't climb out of that rubble.


It's just it really breaks my heart when you see all these gay people on TV that America invited into their homes, you know, like, well, it's like, you know, like Uncle Arthur on Bewitched. And just as long as you didn't say that word, you were allowed to, like, love them and laugh at them and laugh with them and. Yeah, yeah, it's just kind of depressing. But I think I'm glad the world has changed.


No, I'm glad that now they can, like, you know, actually say the word.


It's like when the footage of the world happened, he may not be your favorite candidate, but everyone's like it's a gay candidate. Great. But he would have had to be a Christian, dickless, loveless, new delice, basically pet bunny to be considered seriously at all. Because if you're gay on TV, do you just have to, like, wear a bow on your head?


But we don't want to hear about the fact that you actually kissed me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. You're either sexualized.


I can't remember when it was, but a while back somebody. I can't remember if it was a reaction to something, but I tweeted, never forget that underneath this drag clown that you love so much as a gay man who loves cock a girl like, I just I mean, I need to say it.


If I say something like really overtly, you know, I want to fuck him, whatever, sometimes the comments will be like, oh, God, that's a lot.


I'm like, well, what do you think I got into this for? Although to be fair here, your first tweets are usually like, please run over my body with them and choke me out and take me down until my eyes pop out of my skull and people are like, oh my God, are you gay?


Nothing wrong with that. Maybe I need to lead with more like, you know, Happy New Year from our sponsor.


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I know that you guys are running the. The interview, but can I ask a question? Yeah. What each of your favorite things about me, I mean, where do I begin? I mean, I feel weird because I don't know if you take compliments. Well, but you are one of my favorite drag queens.


I just love you. I take compliments. Great.


You pack my shit. I've seen you so many times every time I've been in L.A. and you have a show. I've always come and I just I love your hair and your makeup and I just love everything. Oh, so funny. You are so fucking mean to the people in the audience, so mean in a way that I am so like I just love it. And the people you you have a way of like it's like a verbal contract that like I'm going to be so mean to you even though you paid to be in the fight and watch me and you're going to love it.




But don't you agree that like first of all, they make fun of myself first because and which is I see Queens trying to do what I do and they don't understand that you need to make fun of yourself first. You have to do it with I mean, the way you're describing it is like I'm just mean.


But there is some affection and there's a lot of finesse to it. It's OK. A compliment to be. Everybody wants to be talk to you at the show. Everyone wants to be made fun of. I don't.


I don't. Well, I've done some shows recently where after the show, people are like, what's wrong? You were you were too nice. You mean like when that woman said that thing, I thought you were going to fucking come for her.


And it's just like, you know, I try to make the most of moments like that, but I don't want to actually you know, I also I know that you probably love being a performer, but I love that you enter the shows with the energy of like.


Let's hear some music, I guess. Listen, I have to say, with drag race and there are queens who are turning it out on a level that I will literally never understand. I mean, first of all, back in the day, I'm more cabaret than theater. So I've got my music stand. I'm like, why am I going to learn these songs? I'm going to do them for three nights this year for my holiday show and then probably never again.


And and I'm also old. So it's like memorizing shit is like really hard. And I just think there's something about just walking out with an attitude like I'm going to rise above this tiny little shithole space and it's all about the connection and what I'm doing. But I'm not going to jump through fucking hoops of fire and my wig is not a place to run. And do you know what I'm like?


Yeah, I'm wearing a glorified tablecloth with a fucking rope around it. I don't know. It just it seems to work. But there are times where I look at what queens are doing. I mean, you know, you look at The Jinx and and Ben de la Creme holiday special and I'm like, oh, oh, that makes me want to be like Drag has done. The production is done now. Seen who can compete with that. No, but then I think, listen, I got this.


No, it's, it's great. But it because my show didn't cost. Literally ten dollars. It's still you can still watch it and it's entertaining, it's a different you just have to stop, you know, like comparing yourself to other people had never been born into Jochebed.


So not one minute she's never even gone. Yeah. I have to jinx the best thing you have to remember.


Many people find them grating. Just kidding.


Myself included. Myself included.


It was like an anime and I was watching it and I was cheering for them until it got so good that I kept leaving the room and being like, Are you serious? Are you serious? It was just so amazing.


And I mean, to tell you, like, you want to talk about talent when it's just varlet. Jean Merman's voice and she's playing like a fucking pina colada or whatever. And she's so fucking funny. We just did Sherri Vine's sherry binded a new variety show, I think for our TV. I hope I'm right.


Oh, yeah. Anyway. And voila flew out on her own dime just to be in it, and I'm not kidding you, we could barely get through. I wrote a sketch for all of us, and it is so fucking funny where she assumes she's playing the sexy young daughter.


It's so funny.


And then she's like, wait a minute. Am I playing the mom? And we're like, don't be ridiculous. You're playing the grandma. And then and then Mario's reading what it's like. And then Mario reads the description and the grandmother is like a hideous woman with no teeth bloated in her wheelchair. It is.


But we could not get through it because she is so fucking funny.


Yeah, she is. Whenever and town. Like whenever I get the opportunity, it's like if I have a night off and she has some tickets available, I'm like, I'm just going to go. Yeah, because it's really like a joke every second. Yeah. I actually Bhala came to Boston years like before drag race where I was on Drag Race and she was so great. So did I'm Sherry and Joey areas. They did a show together which was so weird by the way, just the two of them.


And then I finally saw Deena. Martina, did it change your life? Yeah, she's incredible.


Deena is her whole especially everything I wish I could be, which is, I mean, unforgettable, the kind of tell people who've done acid. And I'm not even saying Dina's done acid. My comedy is very mathematical and it kind of makes sense then, you know, there's this set up and then a delivery.


But God, those people who are just from another planet, I really do love.


Yeah, that's I mean, did you see Tammy's Christmas special? I did not see the Christmas special, but she I've I've worked with her a lot and she's one of my very favorite, like I mean, just talk about, like, not feeling pressure.


I mean, listen, the biggest thing about her, she feels no pressure to do a good job.


No, I just mean to, like, be normal or like, oh, this is how you're supposed to do it. I mean, I'll never forget. Was Tammy on the very first season?


Yeah, I think at one point she literally like said this is bullshit.


Yeah. She's like, oh yeah. And then read Michelle for her like you're her makeup and then left or something like that.


She tried to interrupt her and she said if I wanted to read I could read somebody for a makeup line on their neck. She literally said that to her on television. Yeah, it's fierce when she's like my go to whenever I need to.


I'm going somewhere and they say, Do you want to bring an opener? She's like the first call I make because she's so professional. And so I could do and just like just a good energy backstage, she's like thrilled to be. Yeah. Just so like like you said, it's nothing. She's she's just on a different frequency. Yeah. Different.


Yeah. Yeah. It's just you have to have faith.


I mean I think of things like anything new and different which is so like words I don't think of when I think of drag now. I mean I'm sorry. It's just so like oh my God. And like I don't know if you guys watched, you know, the first episode of the new season, but it's just so, like, step over those dead bodies for fucking ratings. But yeah, I think my point is like. You know, like Roseanne was such a huge thing and nobody had ever it's always somebody who, like everyone passed, you know, like who thought some big, loud mouth that, you know, relatively unattractive.


I don't mean you know, I'm just saying by Hollywood standards now we're talking about what becomes a huge hit because everyone's, you know, starving for something different and something real. And then everyone's trying to do their Roseanne. So there's a million stories like that and you just have to be yourself.


Yeah. What I like about Tammy is it's very I mean, I love the tammi's of the world because it's like they're not really interested in whether or not what they're doing is quote unquote, like marketable. Right? Yeah. But they want the nine people who worship them to have, like, the night of their lives. And they usually do, and they 100 percent do.


And I wonder if they even think of those nine people. Like, I just think that they literally I don't I don't know what they think because I don't think they think I'm not line people watch her.


I'm saying I'm saying like she's not like I've been at shows where she goes out there.


And let's be honest, they maybe don't all know her. And by the end of the set, they are like chanting her name because the conviction is there. Like she. Right. Yeah.


She delivers it like it is is something to be said for like is she serious. Like is this a character like this.


She no, it's the real deal and that's why people love it.


And she's very lovable and wow. I can't believe we've been talking about Tammy for 20 minutes. And this is another thing about me.


I went back to Queens with nine fans. Jackie, can I ask how did you invent this makeup? Well, I mean, first of all, I've always been like sort of an artist, but not, you know, I mean, I can draw and like when I write something, people like, you know, sherries always like, oh, my God, your handwriting is so good. And I'm like, it's because I'm drawing the letters. I'm not writing them.


Oh, my God.


That's a lovely way to put it. Do you do calligraphy ever. Do you have a part time gig as a wedding calligraphy artist? Yeah, a, you know, very public house. Now, do you enjoy the you enjoy penmanship, handwriting, calligraphy, free to be you and me?


Yes, I do love like handwriting. And I love. Like I noticed that when I do sign autographs, my writing is very much like, I don't know if you've ever seen Frank Oz sign things as Miss Piggy. Oh, no. Miss Piggy's writing is so like curlicues. It's so amazing anyway. So I really love that, but I don't know what I'm saying. What were you talking about?


Oh, my makeup. This piggy, we were talking to you, you know, Miss Piggy and my makeup, you know, my makeup was really bad in the beginning. Like, first of all, I did my eyebrows with a Sharpie for real. And then when you take your makeup off, it's still there. And I would take like a sponge, you know, the Scruby sponge and try it. And then it would be all raw and bleeding.


Ginger used to do that.


Yes, still does. Horrible. Horrible. But then you just slowly learn like you watch other people. And this was before the Internet. So you would just be backstage at squeezebox, you know, and notice that somebody the way they overdraw their lip and you just kind of learn what works for your face and what doesn't.


And I know sometimes we never came up that's going to say, yeah, but that iconic sort of makeup that for a while there, everyone was kind of doing. And there's no nice way to say that. But let's be honest.


Be honest. Can we at least be honest? This is it's pretty amazing.


I mean, because I don't I mean, had anybody done those really graphic drawn on, like, lashes and all that until you did it? Because I think well, first of all, I really think that I was very inspired by Patrick Nagle. Like I used to think like this may look really paint by numbers and very like not terribly blended, but when a fucking camera hits it and the flash goes off, it looks like a Nagel. Yeah.


You know, like or, you know, so and, you know, I always shave my eyebrows off because I just can't I never underspend I'll never understand spending the time to cover them because you can never really do it fully. And and then the time it takes to take them off, it's like I'm too lazy. Just shave your fucking eyebrows and walk around like a chemotherapy patient.


Yeah. I mean, I was it's a great segue into my next question. How do you negotiate the surrender of your masculinity to drag in, like during the daytime?


Well, OK, first of all, I only get laid in drag. OK, OK. That's my first of all, I have to tell you, there's a certain point as a gay man where you are a certain age, you're feme, you are a certain size.


Like I had just completely given up my future. Jackie, tell me more things about myself physically that like no amount of dieting is going to change. Like I'm never going to gain weight in my dick, you know what I mean? And I just am such a size queen that I just I just assumed that everyone else is. And it's just not true. There they are. It you know, but I'm also not like this, you know, voracious, you know, power bottom.


So I was just neither here nor there. And I was not in the gay world. I was just like dead.


I may as well as dead. Actually, dead people got a little more action because of the morality. I thought it was dying. At least there's a fetish for that.


Yeah, but my point is then Sherry kind of like shook me up a little bit and now I realized, like, honey, I'm a fucking unicorn. And like I am some people like I mean, ultimate, ultimate and wet, dream, dream, dream.


And I'm not even just talking about, like, the fucking because I always ask them. I'm like, do you want like natural blended makeup or do you want rock and roll horror? They always want rock and roll or the more makeup the better. And then guys will start like I've had guys that I mean, it makes me emotional and I'm not even joking. For example, who is fifty fifty seven years old and have hated certain things about myself.


And then the guy says like, I love your fat ass, bring that fat ass over here. Or they're like, oh, I mean, I'm just going to say it like, take out your dick. And I'm just like, oh, it's nothing compared to yours. Oh, I don't care. Like that turns me on like I look like nothing compares to you.


Yes. Yes. No. Yes. But it's so it's sort of like the Tammy Brown thing, like just you need to embrace who you are and who you're not, not try to be, you know. And just like, honey, if you think you're fucking hot, then, you know, I mean, if somebody's not into you, they're not into you. Yeah, but. And then get them drunk. Nobody. Can I ask honey, I am hot.


Your mother is a sexual person.


Can I. This was supposed to be my year, my New Year's resolution was to do it in drag, so I guess that's going to carry over to this year. Do the men care when you have so much wig and makeup on? Do they say anything? Do they have a problem with the Clowery? That's what they want. That's what they want, but I'm telling her that the wig choices that she's suggesting they're going to lodge because just for logistics.


You want to be able to have a free range of motion. What do you put on for the gig? What's the wig? I could send you it's OK. Yeah, you're sending the president before, please. No, it is this sort of like dark, wavy, parted on the side that I can you got to be able to fucking bolt it down. Girls bolt. And yeah, it's got some height, but not a whole lot.


And also you don't wear the show wigs but the. No, no.


Because you people want full on clown bunny.


Where's the bunny wigs for the sex. Yeah. Yeah.


Because I'm always trying to hypothesise like what hair.


And she's always trying to get it to go smaller which I understand, but smaller and then so tight that you're going to have to it's the numbers game.


So I know this sounds crazy, but like. There have been a few guys like this one guy was like he specifically wanted to be with a drag queen, like the colors and the giant hair, like, you know, chunky platforms.


And, you know, almost like he wanted to reveal he wanted ISIS where he wanted to he wanted to do a. Yeah. I just feel like. Most guys want. Like sex doll on steroids with helium, like everything is larger than life, and it's like rock and roll, slutty whore, the fan is tons of makeup, but like your like some wigs are just too big. Like, they don't want a walking art piece that's going to fall apart when they slap your face with their huge uncut right.


Slap the wig right on.


Neither one of you wants to have to worry about the state of the hair at any point during the evening.


Right, right. Right.


I'm telling using the turtleneck is a good look for you. Have you ever had have you ever let's say it's, I don't know, Craigslist or Grindr or whatever. Have they ever been like I'm looking for their words, not mine, like passable CD? And are you ever like, listen, I've got a I've got a clown fantasy. You want it or not? Because I feel like they would ask for I want real breasts, whatever. And then if you go well I have a little sequined dress, they're like fine.




Well yeah. I mean, listen, I've learned from Sherrie that, like, if the lights are dim enough that some guys will put up with anything, they're like, I don't need a lot of makeup, just put on some lipstick. All I'm going to be seeing is the back of your face, the top of your wig.


That's what they tell her. Just big. Just put the wig on. But let me just say, like, first of all, there are varying degrees, so many just blowing a guy gets really boring really fast. So now my whole thing is, do you want to go downtown? Are you into drag queen dick? Like, honey, life is short. And so there are plenty of guys who like want and I'm not into fucking we've talked about this.


I'm my side. But I guess my point is, first of all, you guys, I am fat, so I got tits. And if they are pushed up properly and shaved and have a nice, you know, like bit of, you know, make no foundation. Yeah. So they are blown away when I send them pictures and I'm not lying when I say this on the on the dating app, I say dating app like this is dating like it's dignifies I say because it's hard to describe what I am.


So I say in general I am, I am on the trans spectrum, you know, busty Buntine, you know, I'm trying to use all the buzz words. And when I send a picture of the tits, they're like I'm in. And and but my point is I just need to kind of take advantage of of men. Well, make, you know, make a fucking purse out of a. S Zeer.


I think that I think you're underselling yourself here because a person out of a saucier yeah, it is interesting.


I mean, we talk a lot about beauty on the show. It is interesting that dressing up as a totally different person, it does do something to how you feel about yourself out of drag. And I think a very, like, improving way know. Well, I've had guys say because they'll be like, oh, can I come over tonight? And I'll be like, I don't have a show tonight. And I do not I don't want to get ready because if you flaked on me, I would be so bitter because it's a 90 minute makeup job and they're like, oh, you don't have to do the makeup.


And I'm like, I need to do this. Yes, exactly. Exactly, exactly.


I feel like literally I've had guys and you guys I mean, some of these guys, I'm seriously when they walk in, I'm like, you've got to be here to kill me. Yes, I am a 57 year old fat like like, come on.


But when it's all put together, so I swoon like, I can't even believe I'm getting this top shelf cock. Yeah. And but here's my point. I've had guys walk in and they're like, oh my God, you're fucking gorgeous. Like, they are so into it. And this is not, you know, like across the room. This is they're three inches away from me and like in the direct sunlight.


Yeah. And you know what?


I'm not going. No, not in direct. But, you know, always like the lights are so low.


What's the lighting scarves to put over. Can you give some tips to tell girls what's the lighting tricks of the trade?


Very moody.


Oh, Sherry says like one votive candle, like I'm over here, all of a sort of music clicker. I click. Really? First of all, I got to say, it's not about tricking anyone. No, no, no, no.


This dating app that we're on, this hookup app that we're on has two choices, male or female. So obviously we list ourselves as female. But the picture and the very first thing it says in the sentence is I am a drag queen. Yeah. So I'm not trying to fool anybody, but it just goes to show you that there are, like, never sell yourself short.


Yeah. And also don't get in the way. Don't let your own shit get in the way of other people's enjoyment of you.


Yeah, right. And I was going to say that don't if somebody says you're sexy, don't fucking talk them out. It's their opinion when people show you who they are, believe them. Yeah. And also, honestly, a lot of these guys are probably so closeted, et cetera.


Oh, sure. They don't they don't understand on the spectrum between somebody who lives as a woman, a trans woman and a part time cross dresser. Yeah. They might say looking for trans because that's the only word they heard on like Reddit. They don't really know what they're looking for. So when they see drag queen, they're like, oh, I guess I'm into that, too.


Yeah, well, you know what the cock wants, what the cock wants. And if you see a picture and start the the blood starts pooling, why question it?


I like that we live in a world now.


Not that blood. When he gets a boner. I don't say is your blood pool. I was just going to say that is the least flattering, most unsexy image of of Jack directed Jackie in a dark room with a votive candle is your blood. I thought I heard an like an embolism or whatever it's called, like, wait, wait.


Here's my point. I've had friends be like, well, I don't I don't even use the words gay or bi or anything anymore.


It's just like if you see something and you, you know, like I'm like vegan bacon, they claim to be vegan. I'm dressed up like bacon. You're not really breaking the rules. Just put it in your mouth.


I don't even know what I'm saying. No, I think that makes perfect sense. Hi, guys, it's Katia. I want to talk to you about Green. Yes, that's right. Green Chef is the first USDA certified organic meal kit company. Green Chef makes eating real easy and affordable with plans to fit every lifestyle. Whether you're kitto, paleo vegan, vegetarian or just looking to eat healthier, there's a range of recipes to suit any diet of preference.


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That's green chef dotcom slash bald 90, U.S. code bald 90 to get ninety dollars including free shipping. Greencrest the number one meal kit for eating. Well, Jacki, thank you for coming on.


You are just so stunning and one over over. It's pretty much over. I want everybody to know where they can find you. Oh, well, I need everyone, and I am not joking, I need everyone to follow me on social media, my numbers should be better. I give such good tweets and such good Instagram. God damn it, follow me. I am Jackie beat on every platform. The people that you love and worship would not exist without me.


I invented that.


She invented it, folks. She is the moment. You are so beautiful and I just love you. You're so wonderful.


Oh you guys, you're so sweet. Congratulations. I love both of you.


You know, there's an annoyance level that sometimes takes over, but for the most part I used to. Yeah, no, I was thinking the other day is like people are talking about touring and I was like, oh, you know, I do. I miss that thing in Amsterdam. We did because that was a really good like Kikhia, you know, on the road, like out of drag. It's nice. It's really nice.


I just I have such a memory of that hotel that we stayed at, like in what was it, Amsterdam? It was outside where they had like all the like, you know, there are certain cities that just do things properly. Like you come you could show up at 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning. And in the lobby, they had like this place where you could still get like snacks and food.


And, you know, she loves her snacks and her remember every location by the menu. Yeah, I do.


And I remember that we went out for Indian food a lot. That's her the best meal it was. And a lovely stroll. Oh, lovely. So nice.


And I bought a pillow. It's so funny, like a throw pillow that I still have. I actually had to put it away because it was bothering me.


It ain't no it is a throw pillow cover but it's cork like I remember that, I remember the cork store and it's so not comfortable.


And so I finally had to just like kind of stick it. Yeah. Good for you. Over, stick your thumb with it. I don't know. But yeah I just remember and I have to say one last thing. My favorite memory of Amsterdam is and this will tell you so much about me and so much about Bunny. Lady Bunny said, Jackie, I'm begging you, please smoke hash with me. You need to let go. You need you deserve to enjoy yourself.


You need to unplug. Why won't you just do this? And I was like, and for a second I thought I should. I'm in Amsterdam with Lady Bunny. Let's smoke some fucking hash. But then I thought to myself, no, I've been talked into things like this before. That's this is not me. Like, I will not have a good time. I'm going to get paranoid. I'm going to get I mean, I have no idea.


But like, there's a reason I don't do drugs and it's like, let's go eat some Indian food place.


When you get talked into a first time drug experience by somebody who's experienced, they don't know how to calibrate. You don't want to get tucked into a drug experience.


He says this is a little bit of harsh. You'll be fine.


It could be enough to put you on Saturn like it's like I did with my right. But it doesn't it sound like when you hear at the sentence I did harsh with Lady Bunny in Amsterdam, I want to be able to tell that story. And now my story is how she begged me to do it. And I was too much of a pussy.


I can't I have to go to the Cork store and get a pillowcase. Right. I never got to answer the question of what do you what do I admire the most about you? Just so quick to do that. Oh, my God.


We almost tuned out before you got the chance. Oh, no, I did. I tuned out. So I'll say very quickly, I think one of my favorite things about you is that when I called you earlier to see if you were on schedule to record that, I'm feeling really weird because I don't know. I'm thinking about Anne Frank. It's true.


And it wasn't a joke and it was just true. And I like no, it's not a joke. And I've said this before, but specifically because I'm in a mood I've been in a mood for the last couple of days, like really like, oh, it's the new year. But, you know, what does it mean? It means nothing. I know there's a lot of good stuff on the horizon, and I know that things will eventually get better.


But it's going to be a long time before I can fucking go perform somewhere and then after the show, have some hot guy come to my fucking hotel room.


OK, there I said it so all I could think of I was lying in bed and my one dog darling is underneath the covers and I was drinking one of my tzvia sodas which is soda.


So sweetened with stevia.


I love that. I love them, too, and I just I put my hand under the covers and I was petting my dog and I was thinking to myself, Oh my God. And Frank would have loved to, like, have this experience to, like, have a pet, something to love, like something to touch. I took a sip of my soda and I was like, this would be such a treat for Anne Frank. And I know it sounds crazy, but I really mean it.


Like you guys, they were like, how many people shitting in a toilet? And all they had was like books and her diary and like they couldn't do anything or make noise or do fucking anything. So boo hoo, get over yourselves. You can go for a drive, you can go for a walk. You can watch any fucking movie here, any fucking song watching really chodak like watch drag shows from the safety of your fucking home.


Like we are in paradise and I know it's you're right but no I want to go to Puerto Vallarta.


Well fuck those queens can you believe.


I mean I can believe. Yeah absolutely. Of course. You know what, Coco and I were texting about this and I just typed I'm so glad I did all those fucking AIDS benefits back in the day so they could pull shit like this. And she was like, exactly. I'm furious. That's all I'm saying. I'm like, I feel they should. I mean, we're at the point where they need to close the doors, the United States, because we can't be trusted to interact with the rest of the world because we don't act right wild and don't always do that.


America, we can't be trusted, can't be trusted. Our new that's our new slogan. Yeah, well, I love you, Jacqui.


Thank you for coming on such a privilege. Thank you for doing this. You guys are adorable.


Now, you'll send me a link so I can share it. And like my nine fans, I'll send it to your people. Yeah, listen, I don't have people I don't like.


I was on drag race. Yeah, it's going to be great. Awesome. Thank you. People are going to be really excited to find out about this up and coming onto new reality. Yeah.


I just want to say one last thing. Yeah. The fact that I kept such energy and such a good attitude. Staring at a big giant fucking print of Rainbow Brite meets. Meet Ronald McDonald, that's on that fucking wall. It takes one to know, one bad. I know.


All right, you guys, I love you. I love you, too, Najai. Bye bye.


That's the last time.