Tonight's episode of the best podcast on the Ringer podcast network brought to you by Spotify, which has the best podcast listening experience around changer speeds, discover their new podcast, go to their great charts. Listen to your podcast on Spotify. We're also brought to you by Jaguar. Which vehicle has a sports car? DNA provides a 100 percent electric ride and is made history by creating the world's first all electric motor sport. I have an answer. The twenty twenty all electric Jaguar Espace zero emission vehicle three ninety four horsepower reaches zero to 60 in only four point five seconds.

Please follow local speed limits. Check out Jaguar USA Dotcom to make this winning vehicle yours. Today we're also brought to you by Bacardi Spiced Rum, where you can make a delicious Bacardi spice, dark and stormy Bacardi spice from ginger beer lime. Enjoy this could elevate your game day. This might be something I need. The Celtics are playing in an elimination game tomorrow night on my birthday. That's never happened before. Might have to have a little Bacardi spice, dark and stormy to help me get through it.

Bacardi Doo Wop moves you drink responsibly. Bacardi Wassa, Coral Gables, Florida. Rum with natural flavors and spices. Thirty five percent alcohol by volume. We're also brought to you by the Ringer Dotcom, where we are covering the NBA and the NFL. And we're still doing David Fincher week. If you miss seven. We did that on the watchable this week. I stopped by to ring our podcast this week. I went on hour to see to this week with C.C. Sabathia and Ryan.

Rukia had a lot of fun talked about why Russell Wilson has that and MVP vote yet and why I'm mad at the Red Sox and all kinds of things. So you can listen to that. You can also listen to me in the second half of the Ryan Rosillo podcast here, Jeff Permanent, who wrote a really good Lakers book about the 96 to 04 Lakers. And we talked about Shaq and Kobe and a whole bunch of other things.

You can listen to both of those coming up. Rosillo, Thursday nights, we're going to be doing this for the next few weeks. Today, we're going to be talking about Nugget's Lakers got a little little football tonight, will Florida battle whether the Celtics are dead or alive? A whole lot more. That's all coming up. First, our friends from Pearl Jam.

All right, take this about 845 Pacific Time Thursday, coming up, the big game, Forcillo, I can't believe it. Miami beating Jacksonville like that. I just didn't see it coming. Shocking. Ryan Fitzpatrick, everybody counts this guy out and just every time. No, he's he's incredible, he's he's like that buddy that no one likes and then all of a sudden he's like, I've got courtside seats to the Celts and you're like, you know what?

Let's keep Murph around a little bit.

Well, this is going to answer the age old question. Will basketball ever be football in the ratings? Because we had just a putrid football game going head to head against a pretty pivotal Western Conference basketball game. And what are the football rating? Or outrank the basketball by like, what, three times as much?

Yeah, those those numbers always blow me away. They're always like a nice little reminder, you know, don't don't get too carried away. But, you know, look, it's not like we don't talk football all the time, but whatever. Yeah, well, we're not going to talk about that game. We're going to talk about the Lakers who are now one win away.

From the NBA finals, this is a weird game, they set the tone. Almost unprecedented, I can't remember seeing this, where a team openly complained about how their superstar in this case, LeBron, was being treated by the referees, this whole thing goes out and it becomes a plot. And as soon as I saw it, I texted like Guy. Well, we know what we're in for tonight. And then the game happens. They edge out Denver and him and Davis shoot a combined twenty eight free throws.

And I just feel bad for Denver because I really admire that team and that you go into a game like tonight and you're like, wow, they're really going to have to go all out to win this game because they're not going to get calls and they did.

OK, but did you think first of all, I don't think it's the only time we've ever heard. I think there's been plenty of playoff series where the coach tries to plant that seed publicly by complaining. Phil Jackson used to do it all the time. So I don't I don't think it's fair. And the other part, like Vogels quotes, the funniest part is we were texting back and forth because I went on with Cowherd and I was like, looking it up.

And I'm going, you know what? This article there was an article written about this for Vogels. Quotes are exactly the same thing where he goes, yep. It's not getting LeBron to get as many free throws. I'm just answering your questions. So I'm not saying anything. He was already like, I don't find me, don't find me, because the numbers show that usage rate the same drives the same distance to the hoop the same. And LeBron is just about to hit throws less per game than he was last year.

And I didn't feel like he wasn't getting a ton of calls. And I I'll be honest, I don't know if I'm team you up here. I don't feel like after this game the officials decided this by any means. It was rebounding because the rebounding was insanely going the other way. In Game three, Denver out rebounded them, what, forty four to twenty five in game three and barely held on their. Yeah, I mean, Yokich didn't play well, that's why Denver lost.

I thought they had a couple of chances to climb in there is that huge call. Murray had Murray, who was great tonight at that drive where he had LeBron on his hip, basically LeBron fouled him then in college and then it comes back down. And that was basically, you know, I think that would have cut it to two. And Murray went nuts right away. And then they're was going nuts. He goes nuts on everyone. Everywhere.

Reggie, they're showing the replay at Reggie Bush is like great defense by LeBron. Watch. Oh, that was a foul. Yeah, that was just kind of stuff that distracts. But, you know, this is this is the respect you get when you're one of the three best players ever, when you have the veteran superstar team. And guess what? If you're Denver, you got to you got to account for that. They just didn't play well enough.

They're not getting enough from Yokich in the series. And I don't even I don't even feel like I was necessarily locking them down. I think he looks a little bit out of sorts. I definitely thought he looked out of sorts the other night. What are you seeing from him? Hey, I couldn't stand waiting, Game three even made a public statement about it, he was terrific in the first place. That was great early in this one because I felt like his energy was kind of fake energy in game three.

It's like, well, it's cool. You're running around and you're waving your arms and you're talking shit. And the Batman thing definitely annoyed me because I'm like, look, when you're at Dwight's level now, it's Yokich. Like, you're just not allowed to do that anymore.

You just can't you can't do that.

And even Vogul I mean, that was part of the storyline in Game four where they were like Voegele said, hey, why don't we tone it down a little bit? And it worked because he played great defense. And I think it just gave him another look. And Yokich, you're right. The hard part is when he picks up that fourth foul and he's out at six in the fourth quarter and the Lakers are in the bonus, he comes back in at five forty six.

He took one shot, one real game shot from five forty six to the close of the game before heve three. That's the game.

Well he also in the series, he's had at least four thousand five playoff games, probably more than that. He's always kind of lingering around foul trouble. It's always kind of looming like an anvil over whatever Yokich playoff game you're watching. And I do think at least that might be part of the reason he was in his own head a little bit. He's certainly not the guy from last year, the guy from last year. We're comparing to the all time playoff greats.

And the reality is they're not going to beat the Lakers unless he's on par with Davis and LeBron and he just hasn't been.

Have you dropped him behind Hero then, for your guys to start a franchise with from number three to number four?

I just now I just edged Herot above Bill Russell last night. I read that my pyramid shooter and then hero, those two now. But it's a bummer because I do think this should be a good matchup for Yokich. Like, you know, Dwight's been super physical. I think I think the refs have allowed people to be physical with Yokich, and I think it's taken him out of his game a little bit and actually always thought he kind of like that when when teams are trying to bang them out.

But this time, like, he missed that little bunny. Remember that late in the game when he had Dick Morris, he took Morris down and just missed that little four foot jumper that he makes ninety nine times out of 100. It just wasn't good enough. Now you get the counterargument. Could be Denver has the Lakers right where they wanted that. They're down three one. This is kind of deep down what they wanted now. Now they can they can do what they do.

You're not buying that. You know, Utah was was not a great basketball team. They played great basketball for three games. The Clippers, I thought, were arrogant all year, which was hard to understand. And I'll I'll give you this. The Lakers are just as arrogant as the Clippers are, and you could see in those Houston games where it'd be like, you want to beat these guys now, OK, fine. And they would turn out in the fourth quarter.

Remember that one fourth quarter, they almost pissed away like a 20 point lead. And it seemed unfathomable that you're like, wait, this Houston actually have a chance to steal this one. And I don't know if it's the bubble. I don't know if it's not having that villain this season for the first time in a long time. I mean, it feels like the first time in a decade you don't have that one team that everybody's gunning for where it's felt like both L.A. teams and clearly one's at home watching if they're even watching.

But I think the Lakers are I could totally see him mailing it in in game five. I mean, they basically did in game three, right, and then they tried to catch up in the second half and tried to steal it late, but yeah, you're right. The other problem for them as their role players, you know, I mean, we're talking Denver well, I'm talking Lakers like, oh, you look at the guys who are out there in crunch time in this game.

Caldwell pope like taking shots with with two minutes left and Rondo, who, you know, sometimes won't really play that much and then other times is finishing entire fourth quarters. And it's just been kind of Russian roulette with their roll guys. And it just doesn't matter because the tandem they have is historically great in them. But I do wonder if you can get through four rounds with this where just nine tonight, having no idea what you're getting from the three through 12 guys we know if they don't win it now, up three one.

I think they get through Denver. I know we're going to talk a lot of Miami, so don't get too far ahead of ourselves. But if Miami gets out of the east, which we expect, like they're a different opponent than a forty nine fifty win projected team, they're just different. Whatever it is right now, I don't think there's any kind of pushover whatsoever. They're a real challenge. So if Lakers were, say, to lose in the finals, then that's the thing that we point to.

But it kind of reminds me we do the NFL stuff where it's like week eight, week nine and we go, man, all the contenders are flawed.

Like, you know what? That's kind of the point. That's kind of the point. And yes, their flaws, their lack of depth, it's the left. But when you watch Anthony Davis get off to that kind of star, LeBron probably underwhelming for the most part, but still those nine points in the fourth quarter. And he hit most of his free throws, which is something I expect to happen all the time.

You know, it's just they couldn't do anything with Anthony Davis, like he should own Millsap, and he owned them early. They got him out of there. They switched their whole defensive rotation around. And, yeah, I'm with you, like Caruso's kind of fun, but you don't count on it. Pope missed a huge three again, you know, he had that three that could have tied it at one of the three apiece in game three. And that was a huge spot.

You know, it's different when you're down twenty and taking those.

And then I can't tell you like I feel like. The Morris twins want nothing to do with the basketball in a big spot and Markieff through that horrible entry pass that deflected like screwed up and then he gets the offensive foul by just grabbing somebody and they're up I think one on nine, one or two. That's a massive possession. It's under two minutes. You score a bucket there, the game's over. He gets a or an offensive, not a charge but offensive foul on that screen and then he fouls immediately by sticking his leg out.

And it's Murray with free throws and you're going, this game was over with the bucket. And then it ends up another two minutes of going back and forth of possessions. So I don't blame Frankie, which is a different things, but he got him fouling out was probably good.

Yeah. At some point wasn't it, Maurice Pope and Rondo where the three, four or five that were out there. Oh yeah. No that's that was the real unit. Yeah.

Because he's not putting Kuzma out there, it's I, I'd be hard pressed to find a worse three, four or five in crunch time then. Rondo is pretty good tonight and I think Rondo's figured out how to pick his spots to do Rondo stuff and just kind of embraces in a Rondo you know as a as a long time Rondo fan. I've been enjoying it. It's, it's been the one redeeming thing for me with this with this whole Lakers situation is I like seeing Rondo do Rondo things that big games and that rebound he got near the end where he just comes flying in like he just has a knack for doing that stuff.

It's fun. Yeah, I thought the best play. You know, there's a bunch of stuff you can pick from here, but when LeBron made a really good defensive play and then ran the length of the court and Rondo waited, a lesser point guard doesn't even register that Rondo's coming or LeBron is coming full steam. And Millsap didn't even bother contesting it. And it was a layup because LeBron ran the full length of the court and he was behind all other nine players in Rondo kept him in the play and that was pretty cool.

One thing I've noticed with LeBron, these playoffs, I think he's become so hard to officiate game to game and that can kind of get why he would come out of a game where he only had a couple of free throws would be like, what the fuck? I'm forcing contact every time he reminds me of the point, Shaq got to like 20, 20 years ago near the end when when he wasn't like MVP Shaq, but maybe two years later, 02, where the refs kind of didn't know what to do.

And remember that Sacramento series was divided and Sealab and Scott Power and certain games, they those guys were just allowed Moshiach. And then they had the famous Game six when Shaq shot one hundred thirty free throws. And it just kind of from game to game seemed to change that thing with LeBron. He's so freakin strong now. It doesn't totally have the same quickness to beat somebody off the dribble that he did when he was at Miami, right. He's at a different stage of his career, but he can still get a half step on them.

And what he does over and over again is kind of barrels into the guy as he has the half step. And then the ref over and over again has to decide, like, what is that? What do I do? Because there's contact. The guy's moving LeBron initiating all the contact. What's the call like, they even had the review today, and when it when I saw it live, I was like, oh, LeBron, that was a charge.

And then they showed the replay from five angles. It's like I actually Grant's moving, but at the same time, he should be allowed to defend when he moves. Right. You're talking about that grant block in front of the Denver bench, right? Yeah. Yeah. Because I was a huge spot at that time. I don't know what you're supposed to do with those calls anymore because I don't like charges. But then again, it's like, wait, I can't stand here and move my feet to try to defend you.

And then if you dribble into me like we've done this before. But it's it's a mess.

It's I don't know I don't know if we've had this conversation before because maybe I've done Michael Brown is he's so strong that and he's so smart and he's just figured out like, I'm just going to do this and they're not going to know how to call it. And I'm going to get the I'm going to get the coin toss most of the time because I'm LeBron James. I just don't know what you're supposed to do if you're the defender. I mean, you could try maybe guarding him with a smaller player, you know, like the Toronto strategy, like the Lowry VanVleet just go way smaller and have the guy get underneath him and maybe he'll turn in the case.

Yeah something like that. But I don't really know how you stop it. And when we get to this next round Miami's going to have Crowder. They're going to have a good dollar. Jimmy Butler. They're going to have all these people but it's going to be the same thing. It's going to be this conundrum game after game of is this a foul or is this not when he's driving the basket.

OK, I think it's a great comp on Shaq. Absolutely. Because, you know, the thing with Shaq is you could just call it a foul every time, but then you also be like, OK, I mean, if Shaq played today, I don't know how that officiating because everybody would just fall down the entire time. And the way that they call it, you'd be like, so what are you going to do? Just give him give him the charge?

Well, this guy is going to have to retire. Yeah, I have I have a thought. It's a question. We know that LeBron is peak theatrics when he's exaggerating. Kind of like a contact like the Murray elbow in game three. He doesn't do it as much now because it just takes up a lot of time and energy to just flail all over the place. But I actually don't think he's a flopper. I don't need a driver now, do you?

I agree with you. Do you think because guys like Donchak are selling it the whole dribble, first of all, the head thing that drives, you know, Harden, who doesn't flop as much as he's selling it all the time.

And then there's just a bunch of other guys. It's just a flop. Do you think that that has to do with some of the problems with refs are almost like, well, he's still upright, so I can't give him every call. I think the Shaq thing is a really good comparison for this reason, it's impossible to figure out what the contact was when he's so strong. It's almost like this moving oak tree, you know, and when somebody bounces into him and he just keeps going completely undaunted.

And then the other guy is almost making it seem like it was more of a foul and then the ref feels like something happened but can't call a charge because the guy's moving. I think to me it's more a testament to just the incredible physical specimen. He is like that he can go into people and really ricochet off them, you know, and and just continue to go until they blow the whistle or he gets the layup or whatever. This is something that started with him.

I really feel like those last two Cleveland years where it just seemed like he was stronger. You know, remember that that that twenty eighteen Golden State finals in the in that amazing game he had when he was just a one like he was overpowering physically in a way that I had never seen before with him. And I think he's been able to do that over and over again. And, you know, Grant, I think stand a pretty good job, at least trying to be active, stand in front of him, stuff like that.

But also at the same time doesn't really have a chance of LeBron once you get to the rim, like he's just getting he's getting near the rim and he's initiating contact and then it's up to the refs. Yeah, I remember making that mistake a few times and I'd look at different series.

I'd be like, oh, well, they have DeMarre Carroll and they have all these bodies and none of it matters.

It doesn't matter because he's just, you know, the way Kawhi uses his shoulders and the way we talk about him spacing his dribble away from you in the fact that you combine his shoulders with his hands like LeBron is actually still bigger. And, yeah, you know, it's not that much different yet. His moves are still probably more dynamic at a much older age, because when it's right, like I was like, oh, is he slowing down?

I was looking at some of the stuff. And then I went looked like, you know, a lot of these fourth quarters have kind of been decided. So if you're just going straight fourth quarter numbers for LeBron, they're not going to look great.

The free throw percentage always goes down. Is it is it because he's tiring? Is it because he's older? And then he had a baseline spin dunk on Torrey Craig in game three. That was just like, well, that looked pretty good.

And, you know, it's not just one play. And there are a couple of moments like when he was short on a few jumpers, like he didn't have the touch tonight at all. He had that one play where he kind of drove it. Jokic Jokic just kind of sagged and he had like a seventeen footer clean wide open. It wasn't even close so the stat line being near a triple double might be a little misleading because it really Davis was carrying them tonight.

But if you're going to score nine points in the fourth quarter, close playoff game to go up three one instead of two two, I mean those are still points.

So and you're checking up fast. You know, in my book, I wrote about the the four different Jordans when I wrote the big chapter about him, how he hit these four different versions of himself. And I think with LeBron, he had that kind of first version of himself, which I would say really lasted all basically the entire Cleveland experience. Right. If he just he matured physically, but I still I would say his whole Cleveland, even though he ended up winning two MVP.

I still feel like that was like one point zero. LeBron and even that first Miami season 10, 12, 12 and 13 and 14 in Miami was probably 2.0. And then those first couple Cleveland seasons when he came back, I would say is three point now and now we're kind of moving into the 4.0 version of him where he's basically Karl Malone who could dribble. You know, and he's just a specimen who's also the smartest guy in the league who can dissect everything, who always makes the right decision, but there's an overpowering piece to it that has kind of made up for the loss of athleticism where he can't just fly by dudes like he used to eight years ago, but he's added the Chappuis.

Yeah, the Karl Malone thing's good, but I think you would agree to add beyond the dribbling that he's set, like Karl Malone can never set up your offense or anything like that.

No, no, no, no. You know, I'm talking the drives. Yeah, I'm talking about going to the basket because I always felt like Karl Malone and same thing, especially that Utah version. He was so strong by the mid 90s that if he was just headed to the rim, where are we going to do? You need to get in there, you're feeling, and that was it. Those with the two and LeBron obviously has so many other things that he brings to if he goes to LeBron 5.0, does that in the debate that he's better than MJ?

I don't know what it would be. I guess five points would just be him as just a three point shooter. He turns into Duncan Robinson randomly. I was like, wow, LeBron lost 40 pounds. That is a 50 percent three point shooter. LeBron five. Put it out. Here it is.

If you were ever going to say, like, when he gets drafted, you go, OK, this is the chosen one. I remember watching that Sacramento game and, you know, we had is like the first guy that ever wrote anything about him. When I was on in Boston, we ordered the jersey like I just couldn't wait to watch him and then just say, OK, when you're going to be twenty twenty.

And he's going to be this close to another ring and it's just different because back then we didn't understand players are going to move around and do all this different stuff, like he's going to be on the Lakers and I want a ring in Miami and Cleveland. And he's going to be still arguably the best player in the league. And, yeah, they're going to be moments where it's a little slower, like it just seems impossible and it seems impossible to also think of the league without him and that we're probably a couple of years away from, you know, TV shows going this guy needs to retire, which I don't like when shows due to anybody.

Like if you want to keep playing sports as long as you possibly can keep doing it. But he's going to be held to a weird standard because it's going to be weird to see a version of him that's actually hurting a team, which still seems like, again, impossible to say out loud, but it's going to happen. You mean like Drew Brees right now? This breathe stuff is a little early, can we wait until Michael Thomas is back?

Can he complete a passive more than eight yards? Those numbers work great down the field. I got it. But I mean, our man Greaney was saying, like, bench him for Jameis Winston. I was a greedy greenies open. He had Jamous replacing Brees. And I think he said it's time to get Jalen hurts some snaps behind Center for Carson Wentz.

I was like, geez, I don't think his coffee had kicked in yet. Would be back would be my guys for the greenie thing. Yeah, the LeBron thing. You know, it's all shaping up for him and he's certainly been, you know, even this week with the brand Taylor thing and and the verdict coming out and LeBron comes out in a big way. And he's not only the face of the week, he's the most important voice. He's still the best player in the bubble, you know, and it is it's amazing.

You know, he was drafted in 2003. I just got in L.A. in 2003. And I don't even think I had I had a dog. I had my first dog at that point. It's so long ago.

You think about it so long ago. It's just an incredible amount of time. Like twenty three people who were born there now, seniors in high school, virtual learning. But the fact that he's still able to do it at this level. So, yes. So when he does stuff like complains about how he's officiated to, you know, and they call that in like part of me is like, man, you were bothered by this a little while.

It's just like you're you're one of the greatest person I've ever seen. Like, you know, I almost like you don't have to do this, you know, like you don't need this. You don't need to win after every college. You're we're always going to remember watching it. We're we you have our eternal respect. You don't need to do, like, this petty, dumb shit. I don't know. But it bothers me because I like them.

I like watching them. Yeah. The complaining thing I don't know me. And you complain to me like those whole responsibles things we were doing after the last dance. I just couldn't I can't tell you how much I enjoyed just watching everybody play basketball. Yeah. Now the new thing and I don't know if it's brand new and LeBron did it tonight, he drove left and so right to left on your TV screen, he's left side of the hoop, gets the call and is pissed at the big guy.

The other ref. Yeah, I saw that he got mad at the referee. One, he's not go anyway, but guys are mad. The other thing that's happening, Marcus Smart does this all the time.

Marcus Smart will make the play and like get fouled on the entry. You're fouled on the pass or something. And then the guy he passes it who gets the bucket, he's got the assist and then he's mad. If you're like you guys got the two man. Right, let's let's get back on deck. Well, let's talk about who the Lakers are going to play in one second and take a quick break.

Let's take a break to talk about Jaguar, which has won the race to innovate with the 2020 all electric I pace that is just as electrifying to drive as it is to watch. The eyepiece possesses shockingly good looks and reaches zero to 60 in only four point five seconds. Please follow local speed limits.

The Espace, a zero emissions vehicle that provides an impressive performance with the powertrain that delivers 394 horsepower, don't know a lot about cars. 394 non-enforceable at its elegant advance was seamlessly integrated technologies and unsurprisingly, the Jaguar IPASS is the most awarded electric SUV ever. I don't know why they haven't sent me one. Where's mine? Check out Jaguar USA Dotcom and make this winning vehicle yours today. Jaguar. They know what they're doing back to the spot. All right, so, you know, I said the other day in a podcast that it was all shaping up for LeBron.

The Clippers got knocked out all that stuff. And this is this is now in their hands. They have this two man tandem that is just going to be better than anyone they play. Whether that's enough to win the finals, they just have the biggest advantage anybody has left. But I was thinking about it. As I think about that Paul George quote that we heard about after you and I finished our podcast last night where he was like, no, I don't feel like it was championship buster at all, is the first season for us in second.

I mean, what was it like, a terrible thing to say after that? This was totally championship or bust. You guys traded one hundred draft picks to make this season happen. Your favorite win the title. What are you talking about?

So would it be even better to if he opted out next year?

It's two seasons of us, but I was thinking like, I have this donative my head. They man, they were so lucky to escape the Clippers. But really, the reality is the Clippers were afraid. They were weak. They folded. I think I think this way. I think Davis and LeBron would have beaten this Clippers team from what we know now about the Clippers and all the stuff that's been trickling out. And it's obviously a team that was not on the same page that resented the star treatment for George.

Not quite. I think they all resented George seemed specifically like kind of like what have you unwire? Where are you? Like the superstar here? And it just seemed like that team had real problems. And if anything, I think it would have been better for the Lakers to play them and beat the shit out of the Clippers. It would have been like a nicer, you know, thing for LeBron Bantul than beating this Denver team that everybody thinks they should beat anyway.

Yeah, because if the Clippers I mean, it's hard to go, hey, this team's a fraud, if they had taken care of Denver and five, OK, and then not blown leads in the other games. And so I always hesitate a little bit to be like, oh, well, they would have smashed the Clippers because but maybe the Clippers would have taken them more seriously. You know, maybe the Clippers would have looked at L.A. and played them differently because they knew it was Lakers like a fight where it's like if you're looking at the opponent and you're actually a little scared of them, you're just going to be tuned up a little bit more.

Are you going to be thinking about all these different things where they clearly didn't give any respect to the nuggets after they were up three one? See, my argument is they had the fraud inside them, that whole thing to be unleashed. It was in the cage with the key dangling from the outside, just inside saying turn key, open door. And the fraud was going to come out. And I think it definitely would have come out against the Lakers.

It just happened to be Denver that did it.

But did you see some really good Clippers Lakers games during the regular season where it kept you guessing? And at times, even when the Lakers pulled out some of those games, you and I did pods, we were going, you know what? I still kind of like the feel of where the Clippers are at and what a great product. So we got to be we got to be honest that we can't just sit here and go to the Clippers. Lost three in a row.

They sucked in. The Lakers were to smash them.

Remember, it wasn't the three. It was how they rolled over, of course, but it was some of the stuff that got exposed as the stage got bigger to the fact that they really rely on Lou Williams. And he's honestly one of the worst play-off players of the last twenty five years. Like, he's just completely abominable like that. If Harrell, you know, got attacked a certain way, he became unplayable. That all said, you're relying on tsuba.

It's like, I can't believe we talk about the Clippers. I shouldn't have brought it up. I guess my point is, like, I, I thought this was this bullet dodged. And the reality is, I think Denver is going to be a lot tougher to put away, even though Denver's down three one. I think that team's got a lot of pride. I love Murray. I think Murray has been one of the big winners. I wanted to talk about big winners of the of the bubble later, but that Denver's going Denver will not roll over in game five.

Do you know, by the way? If Denver loses game five and if Miami knocks out Boston. This final starts on Wednesday. Now, I know that I am, I am wake up and look at the schedule type of guy. Yeah, you're a big thinker and a planner. If there is no if there's no game seven, the finals will start on Wednesday, is what I was told. Will you count this is the 17th championship for the Lakers tying your Boston Celtics?

No, you know the answer to that, because they count their five Minneapolis titles, which we're not real Lakers titles. This is fucking bullshit. There's Oklahoma City. I get to say, we've won one NBA title. Oh, actually, we won the Seattle Supersonics title in seventy nine.

That's our one title. Everybody would be like, get the fuck out of here. You didn't win. That doesn't count for you. So why did the Lakers get to count the Minneapolis titles?

I've heard you bring this point up before, so I just don't have to prepare you, nobody has answer. I just want to by the way, the why do you like career assist leaders? Kerry, though, and titles don't because I always think that's a little weird when it's a graphic and then all of a sudden it'd be like the New Orleans Pelicans, but it was the Charlotte Hornets. And you were like, wait, what's going on? I don't like that this is an all time pelican.

I'm confused like that either. When you when you switch cities and change your name, your different franchises.

That's why I think the Browns is actually the coolest thing ever, because they were like, we're keeping it all. And everyone's like, honestly, you think anybody wanted to be the Browns, right?

Step back.

But I like the Cleveland did that.

So if Miami gets by Boston, which odds are they will, although we'll break it down in a second. Not give it up though, are you. Well, no, I'm not giving up. And I'll go I'll go into the reasons why I'm not giving up. But if Miami does advance. I don't think they will roll over and I think they're going to be a hard team for the Lakers to play, still pick the Lakers in the series, but I think is there two thousand four Pistons upset potential?

Yeah, there is. And would people be making a mistake thinking that the Lakers were just going to walk to the title? Yeah, because Miami is really good. I think what's impressed me about Miami in this series, they're not playing that well.

They're really not like look at their stats, they're shooting from three they're thirty two point five percent for the series. You know, they've given up one hundred and ten point three points a game. You go through their stats. Dragic has played really well, the whole series. So is Adebayo and then Hero had two really good games games three and four other. That Butler's been fine. Crowder and Robinson and Oleynik are basically DOA now, like Robinson can't make anything anymore.

They're not even playing Olynyk and Crowder crash back to Earth and became Crowder. And I think what's interesting and what's a good sign for the Celtics is that this is not the deep nine man Miami team that you just don't know on any given night who's going to get you. This is now a six man team and Iguodala was way more important in Game four than I ever expected from somebody who's had an ankle injury, who's had back spasms, and they really needed him in that game.

And they needed a performance from Hero who had not scored by the twenty two points in a playoff game, who averaged thirteen points in the regular season. Thirty seven, and they still barely won. So I'm looking at it going. I actually think Miami can play better than this and I'm frustrated that it's three one as a Celtics fan. This has been about the fourth quarters and has been about turnovers, and, yes, some of it's the zone, but some of it's just stupid, stupid basketball.

Yeah, and it was a carryover from Toronto. And if you look at the turnover numbers in the fourth quarter for the series, Miami has nine total turnovers across four fourth quarters. Boston had seven turnovers in game four in the fourth quarter alone, and a bunch of them right out of the gate. That set the tone for sloppy basketball. They had five turnovers in the fourth quarter of game to Boston's defense is allowing in the fourth quarter in the series against the Miami team.

That, you're right, isn't exactly shooting the lights out. You're also right. The unit is not as deep as it supposed to be because you can get really messed up with depth because you're like, oh, I know that guy. That guy had a good game that I like to me. If I'm the Celtics, give me all the Kendrick you can give me. Like, take more shots. Yeah, bring me Crowder. Let's go crazy knocking yourself out.

Please take this Duncan Robinson. Like who I love aspects of his game. But there's another reason why you're like, OK, he's getting attacked. He gets a couple early fouls. I think that's happened to win two games in this series we like. OK, now that's messed him up. The problem is with the Celtics in game four, Tyler zero to turn into a short white or Kevin Durant out of nowhere, you're like, OK, thirty seven for this guy.

I was going to go Jimmy Chitwood for him. He's just too quick. And his drip Chitwood was just straight up.

Man Chitwood would not wear skinny jeans, although maybe he did back then.

He just didn't know they were lead by Terry.

Yeah, but this, this.

No, the turnovers are part of it. And I'm going to ask you kind of like a follow up after this, but the Celtics defense in the fourth quarter is allowing one hundred and thirty one point eight points per one hundred possessions. That is such that's an impossible number to be that bad. And they they've tried a bunch of different things. We can get out a little bit more. But I mean, how much do you think it's the zone and how much do you think it's just kind of these moments where you look at their ISO players go, what the fuck are you guys doing?

The turnovers, they have 63 three turnovers in four games. That's just appalling. It's almost since Four Corners, yeah, and really dumb ones, too, you know, it's Wannamaker driving the basket and throwing the guy in the corner, but the ball hits the baseline. It's Wannamaker carrying it. It's Marcus Smart, just just throwing it right to somebody else. It's Heyward in a huge play in Game four when they really need a basket of they're probably going to lose lofting a pass to Tatum and Butler, just jumping up and grabbing it like Iguodala tapping out of your hands because you're holding it up there waiting for him to tap it away from you.

And so I give credit to the zone and this is in Adverted Zone where they have their bigs up top. Like I love seeing guys try different stuff, but the reason why teams don't play zone all the time is you're actually supposed to figure it out right in Boston. I don't blame them for not like Kemba having a bad Toronto series. When you're going to box in one, somebody's the right way. It's going to screw you up, you know what I mean?

Like you're not going to go off. And they were trying to do almost this kill the, you know, chop off the head to kill the snake thing with Kemba in the Toronto series. But this Boston series, I'm with you. There's all these moments where you go that wasn't even special defense, that's you kind of not having a plan. And I'm I guess I'm just surprised that this many talented players collectively, who are all pretty good ISO players, who you're just like, hey, when Boston's right, it's like, man, they could put up like five guys, including Hayward now and get a bucket at the end of the shot clock.

And they just have so many sloppy turnovers that it's leading to free points the other way.

If I said to you before, if I said to you before the series. All the shooting numbers are going to be the same. But Boston's going to turn the ball over twenty one more times in the first four games, where would you go? You said you would say they'd be down three one. Yeah, if I told you my name is going to have maybe 30 numbers are basically a wash, all the points are a wash. But Miami has 42 turnovers.

Boston is sixty three and sixty three turnovers of four games. What happened that was Kemba playing? It's the fourth quarter stuff too because you're just doing the other team such a favor. And you know, Jimmy Butler is the fourth leading scorer.

I know and he's, he's had, he has stretches and that's why you know as much as everybody's in a Jimmy Butler love fest and I say this to not knock him, although dude, when he shows up Tyler Heroes High School Jersey and then CJ McCollum, who we like, tweets out, I thought he was a bad teammate. You're like, hey, C.J., you want to ask fucking Karl Anthony Towns?

And again, I was right Jimmy's side about thinking those guys were soft, but I mean, to just decide to go nuclear so you get your way out of there during a practice doing ESPN was there to cover the whole thing, like give me a break just because we're heroes, because you definitely weren't a good teammate. Yeah, it wasn't fun. But like, do you look back on this series and think this is this massive wasted opportunity?

Because I do know I want to talk about that because I told you this two weeks ago. I am a big never think your window is going to be ten years guy with the NBA. And I really felt like this for this Boston team. This was an unbelievable chance for them to make the finals. And we talked about this even before Milwaukee got knocked out. I don't know if Philly is going to look like next year. I don't know what Brooklyn next year.

I don't know if the East is going to be much better than it is this year. I'm guessing it will be because Brooklyn is going to be really good, too, and God knows who else I know. This year they had a chance to make the finals game one and game two they threw away. They should have at least split those. And Miami made every single play. Kudos to them. They're smart. Our team, they're mentally tougher, but they put out those first two.

And then yesterday, you know, the Celtics basically couldn't figure out how to shut down a twenty year old kid. I just he was making really tough shots. I just find it hard to believe they couldn't come up with a strategy either. The man got to hand it to him like that's crazy to me. And I. I don't understand. Look, Brad Stevens does care more about basketball than I do. It's so obvious to me that they should be going small and switching on everything.

So they tried that everything. Now, I would just do that. That would be my strategy, though, especially when here is feeling it like that, because I don't want to see Rob Williams again in the series because he doesn't know how to defend the three point line. He comes in Miami, just hunts him right away. All right, great. Getting wide open threes. The thing that scared me about yesterday is Miami didn't even shoot that well, other than Hero, I think they were like 30 percent from three, but all the threes were wide open.

I don't think Boston's played good defense in this series. I don't think they played smart. They haven't protected the ball. I don't know what happened to Tatum in the first half. In the second half, he turned it to, you know, LeBron James at twenty seven against the Pistons. It's it's just really weird because I think they're going to look back at this series and just be like, what happened? How did how did how did we do all that dumb shit for two solid weeks?

And then Miami's going to look at this like, yeah, we're a veteran team, we're smart, we're tougher than them. We pulled this out. That's that's what the outcome is going to be unless Boston can flip it. I know they tried a bunch of different things with Butler, you'd like to try to stop him because they've had moments where it didn't work and then they I would think you might see more of helping off. Iguodala But then there's a perfect play of what this team is and what it's like to have a guy like Bam!

And it totally looked like the Warriors in the beginning with Draymond Green with the Line A Death their death line.

Excuse me, I don't know if that's timed but trap trap left side Butler Butler throws it to bam bam throws it baseline kicks out Dragic It was great and you just go ok that's why like can you trap that. All right because if you trap and then Bam gets to make the decision four on three you probably screwed because bam get even put it on the floor and finish the whole time. So even though we went in going to a Miamis deeper but Boston's one through four is probably a little bit better when Tatum who look we all love but just took a first half off and I'm trying to figure out if he's hurt or not and you're like what's going on?

And his energy just sucked. And look, he picked it up in the third quarter, but you just can't have when you're down to one, you can't play like that. And Kember's having moments to where, you know, whether it's the way they trap him. And I think he just tries hard all the time. But but that can be scary when it doesn't go right. And, you know, I don't really like criticizing Spart anymore because I know at least from a toughness and competitive standpoint, a caring point, he's going to care, but there's still going to be a bad three like he had where he trailed transition.

It was like twenty seconds left in the shot clock, you know, like that's not what we need right now.

So Miami still feels like, look, we both picked Miami, I think, before the series. Did you think Miami, too? Right. Right. Yeah. I thought it was close. I thought it was close. I could see Boston win in game five, maybe make it a little weird. I am wondering if like. Well, on that thought, the. Here's how they win game five. The biggest thing that's changed over the last two weeks is that this is no longer a nine man team from Miami, it's basically seven seventy seven series now in Boston can win that.

I thought Miami's biggest advantage was going to be this depth. And, you know, Oleynik coming in in the second quarter and scoring 12 points and, you know, Kendrick non torching. Want to make at least one.

That's right. Yeah. And none of that stuff's happening in Robison's playing awful. He's Robertson is having the weirdest stat series. He's twelve for thirty two field goal. He's twelve for thirty one from three. He's take it one two point shot, four games which is not the player that he was during the season. Yeah. One of the things I liked about him was he wasn't like Kyle Korver, like he actually could create, he would go to the basket and stuff like that.

And he's now been pigeonholed as this defensive liability who only shoots threes. So they've kind of taken him out. But it's basically been there six and a half. First Boston, six and a half, and they're six and a half has just been slightly, slightly better. And then at the end of games, they're able to play Dragic in here together. And for whatever reason I, I really am surprised smart can't shut down hero when he gets like that.

I would have thought that would have been like a perfect guy for smart to guard and chase around picks and do smart stuff, but he hasn't been able to solve it and I don't really know what their answer is at the end crunch time against that lineup. I still think with here there's a little underestimating them, even though his first assist in this series for The Heat, his second in rebounds, he's got the best assist turnover ratio. So it's not like he's just gunning threes.

He's good on the catch. He's good off the dribble. He's good on the hard cuts. He had a handoff where he was coming around the top where he just looked like he was full speed stop right up.

And that was that was incredible. That those are incredible shots this morning here on Seymour. On the left side were smarts like I don't have to close out on you yet. And he's like, all right, I'll just stick it right in here. And I'm like, oh, man. So I'd imagine that's the easiest adjustment, is that whoever gets him is going to be thinking about him for four, two days going. I got him. Start treating him like he's Luca Donchak.

Is not Tyler here, like they really are going to have to start thinking about him, like when this guy's in and when he starts feeling it. We have to now change our entire offense. The other problem is they never solved the bad thing. That's been awesome in this series. He's just a great pass, those rolls.

He's just going to beat you and he beats them all the time with it, too. He's destroyed twice, like honestly destroyed him because Tyson caught in the middle a little bit, though. I think it's just a tough spot. But go ahead. Yeah. It's tough to sustain a tough spot. I have some here stuff, but I want to take a break first. Hey, let's talk about simply safe. Here's the thing about home security companies.

Most trappy with high prices, tricky contracts, lousy customer support. So there might be a lot of options out there. That's fine. There's only one no brainer. It's simply say they've got everything you need to protect your home. None of the drawbacks of traditional home security and arsenal of sensors and cameras to blanket every room, window and door tailored specifically for your home, professional monitoring, keeping watch day and night, and sent police, fire, medical professionals that there's an emergency.

You can set it up in an hour. It's that easy. No technician required. There's no contract, no pushy sales guys, no hidden fees, no fine print. And all that starts at fifteen dollars a month. What are you doing? I'm not the only one who thinks it was safe is great.

U.S. News and World Report and did the quote, best overall home security of twenty twenty. They have been a proud sponsor. This podcast really since we launched in October 2015. Simply say if we just get along, I trust these guys. Head to specific dotcom subs. You get a free HD camera. That's for my listeners. Once again, simply say for to simply save dot com slash B.S. to make sure they know our show sent you on the hero thing.

I was thinking about this concept of every playoffs, there's a young guy who has a moment and it becomes this really important moment. So I was I was going to call him the Reggie Hammond team for Eddie Murphy in 48 hours, Reggie Hammond, where it's just kind of he's in the torture's bar, that one scene. And you just come out and be like, wow, that guy's a fucking star as soon as that torture scene's over. It's like that guy's going to be in my life for a while.

Hero became that guy this year in the playoffs, which I think was really unexpected because I made a list actually of the last 15 years of the guys who have had these moments in the playoffs. And he's probably the most unexpected one, you know, I think for 20 here on Loukia, right, Loukas? The other one, Loukas, not a surprise, but, you know, we're always going to remember that Clipper's game and all that stuff.

And when you think back 20, 20 playoffs, what happened? That'll be something to remember. 12, 19 was Yokich and Murray. That combo, which I think after that playoffs, we were like, OK, these guys, this is a team. Twenty eighteen. Was Tatum going to the finals against Cleveland Eastern Finals and Donovan Mitchell beat Chris Paul. Remember that where we're just like, oh, those guys, OK? Donovan Mitchell, so he's going to be a real guy to 17.

Bradley Beal I think was a big winner. I couldn't find a twenty sixteen, but then going down, I'll just do it quickly. Butler Dame Steph Curry in twenty thirteen Harden in 2012 when he took out the Spurs Paul George that year to Durant Westbrook and eleven Rondo in 2010 Rose twenty nine Chris Paul twenty eight Deron Williams to twenty seven LeBron six and then a Marine with five. And the reason I have all those guys listed like that is all those guys were like high pedigree lottery guys where it would have been if you wanted to have their basketball card when they came out.

We expected something good to happen with them, it wasn't shocking, it wasn't shocking that look did with the Clippers because we watched my ear to hear things shocking. And I think he's here to stay. I don't think this is a fluke. I really think this guy is like this guy is going to be like a multiple time All-Star guard. He's kind of perfect for how basketball is played. I always loved him. I did not see this coming.

Would you trade this year's number one pick for him?

Yeah, no. No, you wouldn't. Oh, my God.

Are you kidding? I'd much rather have here than number one pick in this draft. Oh, no, that's what I mean. Would you trade meaning if you had the pick, would you trade if you're the Minnesota Timberwolves? Oh yeah. No. Oh, I'd have two more picks.

All right. I'm just double checking because sometimes people when I did it for Duncan Robinson, not everybody liked it. So I found my scouting report on Hero that I wrote before the draft. Let's hear it. OK, decent frame, bad wingspan moves. OK, I think he makes it. I think whether or not he makes the deal is how his body develops to be quick enough to get open off the ball, passable on D. He's just this is when I started.

So I started with that and I can tell as I keep writing it's either like it goes in the direction of me liking a player, not liking a player. He's a he's just a smart player.

That was a sentence. The way comes the ball is cuts off the ball. Transition driver. It's the defender. A two on one get a wide open layup his cuts, cuts, cuts. So I started falling in love him. He has all the tricks, lets the defender get it to him and he pushes him off, runs this guy in the screens. I love all of it. He puts on the floor more than you might think. He's he's the best off the ball player in the first round.

I love the way he repositions behind the line. Reminds me of Klay. He's a small guard or excuse me, he's a shooting guard. That probably be a guy off the bench early. They can hit shots and stick around because he's big enough. When you even put in one of my favorite secret things about him is that he rebounds. I love that Iribarne. I love that. I love cars that rebound.

He almost had a triple double and one of the games last week. But, yeah, he's just. One of the things I love about him, he never disappears, there's no like Jeff Green corridor where it's just like, where is that guy out there? He's like the opposite of, like a Wiggins type where you can disappear for 15 minutes. He's always going to touch the ball, be involved, do something, hit a three. He does.

He doesn't get scared. And, you know, he's 20, but Tatum's twenty two. I don't think Tatum gets enough credit for how young he is either. Like the quality of some of these dudes. Jamal Simmons. Twenty three, the the quality of some of these dudes, like my son and I were watching the Bird Magic documentary that the bird was twenty three when he came in the league. You had like Patrick Ewing was like twenty two.

These guys, these four year seniors, you know, they come in and Duncan, it's a four year senior, they come in as finished products. And I think it's so incredible. That regardless of whether they win the title this year. They're going to be a contender for the next five years and it's going to be more because of Hero and Bam out of bio like in 2020 for the Jimmy Butler, right. Yeah, absolutely, I mean, you know, to to have that kind of game and I try not to ever get too close like, all right, so if you're going to be one of those guys, let's keep seeing it.

I know Van Gundy keeps losing his mind. Van Gundy in the cut, who keeps getting mad like how is he second team?

How is he second team?

You're like, well, over the course of the season. Yeah, that's kind of the way. Right. Sorry.

Yeah, exactly. Between Bam's development and Tyler's development and derogate, who is now because of a hero and Bam doesn't get enough credit because he still feels like they're steadying force, like, OK, we have something here, we need something. You want me to play off the ball? I mean, God, I love guards that can get it on their own, but then are totally comfortable playing off the ball. Always being a good player. I've got to.

Yeah, but well, the way he was available before the season and even the first month of the season, anybody could. Adam who you talked to. Dragic Yeah. Is an expiring contracts. Anybody could have gone after him. And it's just weird you think like Kendrick Dunn was starting over and for most of the year and he was a little banged up and all that stuff, but that was done was going off in the beginning and was going off.

Right.

But the Dragic resurgence is like a legit resurgence and it started a few months ago. But he's playing era. He's like that twenty ten Spurs series. When I remember that when he just destroyed the Spurs he touched on for you look like a steak and red bit of their heart between Dragic Hero. Yokich. Caruso. Come on, come on. So in that company. OK, all right, Donchak, is this the best time in white basketball history since the Plomley parents met?

Did you see Hera's jersey was like No. One on fanatic's today?

Yes, I love that. Are you serious?

When he got drafted, I was like, oh, my God, I go. He should have gone higher just based the way he was dressed. Do you love that? I read you my scouting report knowing that if it had said no fucking way, this guy sucks, I would have never read it. Yeah, there's no way.

It was it was kind of a humble brag. I wasn't good at it. But you should have. You should have. Because you know what's sometimes you good to give yourself credit when no one else will know. That was a good that was a good scouting report. Maybe it's here to stay. And I think Miami is really good. And if they get by Boston, which odds are they will you know, they're certainly heavy favorites to advance. I think they're going to be a hard team for the Lakers to play.

I'm Mike. Well, my my concern is that they're going to become the sexy ZAGG. People go back, watch this now you're right, sexy zags have a terrible sex is always fucking sex. Yeah, but Tyler Hero as it's for this who's guarding Hero and Dragic in crunch time. So in Rondeau, no pope, Pope Rondeau Caruso would be your defensive match ups, their. Bam's going to be able to at least make Davis sweat to get to thirty five points if I on the other end he's going to be rolling all the time and trying to get dudes in foul trouble.

If I'm Miami and that's the finals matchup, I would tell the younger guys on the team be like D.M. Kuzma all week and say he should ask for a contract extension.

I've asked, asking if you're just trying to get them them off center the entire time. You're right because as I've sat here and thought, hey, it's not crazy, it's definitely not crazy, it's not crazy. But then is it, is it crazy to actually go ahead and pick them? But I do think a lot of people will end up picking him because of the Laker flaws, which are, you know, not enough to get in the way of them coming out of the west, at least the way it feels tonight.

And what a setup for Pat Riley to where you have. You know, you dispatch Boston, the team that haunted him and stole the 1984 title from him and all that stuff, and then you go to the finals, LeBron, the guy who ditched him, 12 14, the Lakers, the team he used to be the man for who thought they could replace it with Mike Donlevy after he left. And yeah, I mean, I guarantee he would love not that he's playing, but he has to be peeing himself.

He's got to be so excited. That's pretty good.

That's why you when you used to write, that would have been a good article. Well, remember, seriously, though, to just map it out that way, because the revenge against LeBron, by the way, which was nasty, he basically scolded him. So get out of there. And, you know, he could just be like, there's there's part of me that understands Riley's being upset me like, hey, if you're going to just bail on the franchise a little heads up, it's like, OK, but that's the world of LeBron.

But it was better to be the last to know. It was better than that, because when he knew he might be leaving, he gave that press conference. I did a little book, a basketball thing about it when he did that whole long speech. And it was basically directed at LeBron. Oh, yes. Like, he's basically like, this is hard. You're not supposed to win every year. Only one team can win every year. The whole point is you stay together and you try to overcome adversity.

You don't take the easy way out. And apparently LeBron was really pissed after that.

Did say I fucked this guy because it was it was it was just an old man in his eyes behind a table who, like, didn't open up all that often deciding to just scold the guy because he bounced. But, you know, it's the same thing out of Cleveland. But then you just learn that that's the way it's going be. Like you're going to be the last to know. He's not going to tell many people and he's going to make his decision.

I mean, hell, even when he ended up going to the Lakers, there was like, I'll never forget. I ended up going out and I was getting late night calls from a couple of guys being like, there's this weird rumor going around that he's going to stay in Cleveland. I was like, no, it was the actual NBA players, not that they were calling me, but calling other people. And it was it's just one of those things where Pat wasn't going to get over it because he felt like, hey, once you're part of this in the heat culture, which may have brought up a few times during the finals coverage, if they end up in it, I'm not I will never say the words.

Can I ask you a a big picture question about something near and dear to your heart? Yeah, OK, Brad Stevens. President Brad Stevens, it's been a tough four weeks. OK, go. Why don't you just take it any direction, because then I have another thing to ask you about afterwards. The Toronto series took way too long and I thought Nurse really worked him in that series for a good chunk of it. And it was the biggest test Stevens has had from another coach in a series.

I thought nurse did a great job. That series shouldn't have gone seven dead. And then in this series, I just find it hard to believe you could be this flummoxed by a zone in that. Even after four games, you can still. Let dudes just go off and basically get any shot they want with a pick. It just shouldn't be this easy. And I just don't think I think he's a great coach who has had a not great last couple of weeks.

I'm going to present you with an arc here because we both know how Boston fans work, although I don't think this necessarily in particular Boston fans, but if the Celts on the Blues in this series, we know what happens. Hey, I thought this guy was awesome because I think Brad was doing things nobody expected. The Celtics are supposed to be rebuilding. They're not rebuilding. They end up being a one seed. Twenty eighteen. They end up a couple of possessions away from maybe getting their their brains beaten and against the Warriors.

But actually, like, how the hell is that team in the NBA finals? I know I said something about that finals run Eastern Conference finals, by the way, that I said this is as impressive as any single season Pop has ever had. And we don't even know if he's going to get to the NBA finals because those rosters weren't that good. I mean, if you look at some of the guys that were getting major minutes, you're like, how is this happening?

Chris Mannix, who we both like, had this legendary tweet that I'm going to pull up because I was thinking about this the other day. This is from May of twenty eighteen as they're on that run and it says you're the GM of an expansion team, you have your choice of any NBA player or Brad Stevens. Who do you choose. Twenty one thousand votes. Sixty six percent said the player. Thirty four percent for a coach is high. That kind of stuff now two years later is absurd.

The stuff that I said maybe about the Spurs thing I regret. But the general idea that Brad Stevens could come into the league and do that much more with that much less, I think was misleading and basically not even true. It was just the E sucked. We look at it now and you go, yeah, these just really kind of sucked. And LeBron was taking off regular season stuff and not grinding. Then he was beating everybody in the playoffs again, so.

I I feel like Brad is almost a victim of his early success and smashing expectations to now people are going to jump on him in a way that he's never really experienced. There's been hints of it in the past where it's like, if this is guy, this guy is so great, like, what the hell is going on? Miamis not that much better than the Celtics. What's the deal? And I think it has less to do with Brad, the coach, and everything to do with those early years.

That's fair. Here's what I would say in defense of Brett, everybody who ends up on this team, with the exception of Gordon Hayward, it became the best version of them in this dates back five, six, seven years.

And you could talk about Evan Turner, Avery Bradley, Marché, crowd crowds, just everybody, everybody who's in his system.

It's all about Kyrie, ironically, you know, that that I guess he was one that Brad didn't get the best out of, but was that could anybody have pulled that off. I don't know what is. I think, I think from that aspect he has a tendency to get guys to overachieved. My question for him is like, well, what happens if you have the more talented team? Because I would say if you put the Boston talent against the Miami talent, it's either even or Boston might even have a slight edge because of how great Tatum is or how great Tatum could be.

And is he getting the most out of Tatum in the series because to win this series. Tatum is the one that has to be mocked, Tatum. This is now a best player in the series series. Has Tatum got twenty, six, ten and five pretty good numbers. Forty five percent shooting thirty two percent. Thirty one percent from three D getting in the free throw line. My my my issue with him is the shot selection with him has kind of reverted back to twenty nineteen especially at the end of the quarters.

And I think this would be Brad's single biggest accomplishment if they came back and won this series because they figured out how to unlock Tatum again zone. Because it seems like that zone should be something Tatum should destroy and they can't figure it out if they can't figure it out, he's going to think about it all summer or there is the summer. He's going to think about it all. What would be all winter? Yeah, all winter. Well, think about it.

Well, that's not unlike a fucking two three zone.

Yeah, especially when you have your smalls along the baseline, because I used to always love seeing teams because in college you see it far more when you just watched a ton of college basketball back in the day when I cared about the Big East, you run a guy in the baseline, you just run them back and forth and back and forth, and then people lose them and you get you get somebody in the middle. You can still set a screen in the middle of the zone and you just dribble with the purpose that you're going to get in there.

And then the help comes up and then somebody cuts baseline, like you can actually make a zone look terrible. Yeah. If you get to the get to the middle, I think they do. I don't know what the number of possessions are. I'm not a second spectrum off the top of my head here, but I feel like they get in trouble when they try to attack the zone from the sides and they do it way too much because Jaylen and Tatum are these big wings and then Marcus Welby be all over the place.

And then Kemba maybe doesn't get to go in the direction that he normally would in a regular season game. And he made a good point too, because they were getting guys to the middle. They were actually getting the guys into that middle spot, which is where you want to attack it. But Van Gundy, it's a perfect point. You got to at least look at the hoop when you catch the ball in the middle so that the defense reacts, because if you never even look at the hoop, then they're never going to really react to it.

It's not even a close out, but they're not going to go to you the way that normally or defender would when you just ignore it and you're looking to move the basketball before trying to get them to commit to a decision you may not even make. So and challenge Bam!

Yeah, going to play zone, they take it to him, try to get two fouls on him, that that's another thing that's driving me crazy. They made it easy on him to stay in the game. Yeah, the Lakers are challenging Yokich. They want to they want him to get foul trouble. And I kind of wish that would be a strategy for the Celtics. I don't understand NBA teams with that, because even when it's gotten some foul trouble in the Clippers series and they ask Doc and goes out, we don't go hunting for fouls.

He just screws you up your whole offense.

I'm like, yeah, but, you know, maybe, maybe two looks at it because you're probably going to have somebody take a terrible three and one of those other possessions. So what what's wrong? I'm with you. I wish I wish. Teams hunted out another extra foul on a guy every now and then.

Why not. Yeah, right.

Like if a guy like Paul George coming out of Game seven with his third foul, that changed everything with five minutes to go because Jamal Murray went bananas at the end of the second quarter and it might have been worth putting Paul George back in. And here we are talking about the Clippers again. So I apologize. Coming up. Could James Harden have a little cheesesteak stuck in his beard? That's next. Let me tell you one more time about Bacardi Spiced Rum.

You love the classic, I mean, it really is a classic. Now you love the new Bacardi Spice rum. You could skip along with your friends. You can enjoy a delicious Bacardi and Cola for game day this weekend or in my case, for my birthday tomorrow night. Is Celltex are playing an elimination game. Bacardi Spice from your choice of cola, maybe throwing a lime. What more could you ask for in a game day ritual? I don't know.

Tackle your weekend spice up the game with the new Bacardi spiced rum and we're going to be talking about some football picks in a little bit. I'm going to give you a nice teaser that uses one of the late games on Sunday. You know, if you want to have a little cocktail during the late games heading into dinner. It'll be nice. It'll happen your step, get a little caffeine out of it, Bacardi, do what moves you drink responsibly.

Bacardi USA, Coral Gables, Florida, rum with natural flavors and spices, delicious from 35 percent. Alcohol by volume.

All right, we don't usually do segments about rumors. Here we're not we're not a podcast, so I guess we're not always innocent of it, but yes, for the most part, we don't we don't usually tailor it in a sports radio style, but this one was too hard to resist. And it took off on Twitter today and. Who knows, but the rumor is that Philly is going to try to hire Mike D'Antoni and try to get James Harden.

I had also heard a rumor that was separate from this and I went, I don't go on Twitter any more. I went on Twitter and just search for hard and philia. All this stuff came up. I was like, oh, so this was the thing today. I've just heard rumblings about this, and I don't know what's real and what's not real, and I'm trying to figure out how to even work, but let's just start here fundamentally.

It has to probably be Embiid for Harden right if this happened, so if you're Philly you could hire Mike D'Antoni and you could flip Joel Embiid for James Hardie to do not aggregate this. We're not reporting this. We're not saying it's too late to. It is all hypothetical. This is all going to come out by the way. So just, just a heads up. Would you do that, would you give up Joel Embiid for James Harden and put him with Ben Simmons and Horford and Harris and whoever else you have and unleash Mike D'Antoni and the entire crew.

Let's start from the filicide, would you do it? Yeah, I probably would, I probably would, I think I would, too. Well, I think my hardened position is well documented. That's quick aside.

Imagine going from Ben Simmons, being your point guard to Russell Westbrook being your point guard.

If you were Embiid no one deserves that it's Kolff that's just poor kid would probably retire. Sorry I'm done with this.

I don't know. What's that Hulu campaign with him where it's like Joel Joel that he's very mad about his teams. That could be the new Hulu campaign. Just mad he still does that point guard.

Joe, we get good news. We got bad news. Good news is Hulu wants to resign for another year. Bad news is your rocket and Westbrooks is your point guard.

Oh, good news does state tax.

But is that true? Just kidding. All right, well, look, I answered. Is it a slam dunk if you're Filey? So. And Bede's five years younger, I think there's been no signs of drop statistically from Martin. I was surprised as I thought about this from the filicide. That I think I would say yes. I do I think it solves every problem I have, it's a change of scenery move, it's a massive move. I sell more jerseys, the whole thing.

Let's flip to the Houston side. I don't think you should do it. I don't think you should do it so that that's where I landed mentally, because if I'm Houston, I'm like, all right, so I'm getting a bead. Didn't seem like he was totally in shape last year. I've no idea if he's going to be happy if he's coming to Houston. Huge injury history, obviously. I'm giving up a first time NBA guy now I'm putting Embiid with Westbrook, PJ Tucker Covington, Eric Gordon.

Where am I heading, I'm basically making this huge bet that Embiid is pissed off from the trade and says Fuck this, I am declaring revenge on everybody, I'm getting the best shape of my life and I'm ripping through the league. And I guess the other thing you would say for Houston is like I'm never winning a title with James Harden.

We've, we have a long, long, long sample size of him as the best player on playoff team. And every year it ends with the team getting eliminated. So why wouldn't I do this? That would be how I talked myself into it, OK? Let me just go on the other side of this, which I totally understand, I'm not I'm not saying like, oh, I understand what you're doing as you're doing it. Houston's probably more in the position, especially with the ownership situation, which we don't know how how dire it is isn't sitting pretty to the hotels and the tourism part of it.

You know, I've read everything you've read, too, that on paper it can be really scary. So if that's true and it could still be the decision, if it's not true, is that at least with heart and I know I'm probably winning 50 games, I have a guy that Houston fans trust me, I know this still love and back all the time. He puts up big numbers. It's a star in in a weird sense, sells jerseys were relevant.

And yeah, we're not winning a title with them, but we're relevant. And Harden's still brings it basically every night, which is there's a ton of credit for. So even though he's five years older, I, I worry again, Bede's health is probably gone far better than I would have thought it would have, even though he still had time where he's missed, you know. Yeah, but as he gets older, like the real answers that I know what I'm getting with Harden, the speculative answer is what is Embiid going to be.

But here's the other part of this that we haven't mentioned. Why I'd be a no for me. I would be scared. As hell of a sensuously now I'm Westbrooks team. Because without Hardan Westbrooks, like, OK, now we're back to to my shit where I get the ball every single time, and as he gets older and is a 40 million dollar plus year guy, I mean, it's already bad enough and we can say he was hurt in the playoffs or whatever, but I mean, that wasn't anything new as far as I was concerned when I saw on the playoffs.

Now that Harden's not there, like Harden probably keeps Russell in check just a little bit. That wouldn't happen because you just look at Embiid saying, I've done more than you, I've had more, more skin in the game and you know now it's my team. Embiid is on the books for twenty nine point three next year, thirty one point three and then thirty three point six. Harden makes about ten million a year more than that each year. He is forty one, forty four and forty seven.

Sapho would have to put it under contract to make that work. Maybe it's maybe it's like Embiid and Josh Richardson for hard. It's something like that. He they're pretty close. I mean, they get there if they wanted to. I'm going to make the case for this trade just as for as a whole and make a case for the trade itself. It's so much more fun, here's what we would get, we get we split, we split up and beat in segments, which I think you and I both agree that's never going to ever have the kind of upside people would think.

I just have never liked the fit. I don't think it ever gets better. We split Houston and Harden. We don't have to watch that anymore. We don't get to see that. That's over no more hard. And Houston games, no more people trying to talk to themselves than them as a playoff team, all that stuff. So we we get those two things. Those are two wins. We get Embiid now with his own team. Being like, fuck this, I'm at the possibility of him coming in and being, you know, with a chip on his shoulder wreaking havoc on the West, which should be really fun.

And then you have hardened in Philly, which any way it goes is going to be phenomenally entertaining. If he's great, that'll be awesome. If he's disappointing, the Sixers fans will turn on him in five seconds because they love Embiid no matter what outcome it is. It's incredible and it's an incredible trade and I just think they should call it in and it should happen. Plus we, we split up the clutch stuff too by the way. Then we have then that filly officially becomes the Simmons' Clutch team and then Embiid then that that gets split up to.

So what's the part that I kind of can't tell.

Which side of mine is that. It in a way, I should be rooting for it to end, just be like, hey, it never happened. Like all you guys all year, the media members down there that kept saying all the national guys are idiots because you didn't buy into this being a chance to win a title. They'd be like, hey, guess what? It didn't happen.

You part of but part of me. Wants to see Houston do it again. Martin's going off again and they're looking around at the West, they're looking at the seedings and the people are tweeting out per one hundred stuff. And they're like, look at this. We haven't seen offensive efficiency since. And and then, you know, look, Daryl took a bunch of shots at me on Twitter. I would say something. And I was even nice about it at times, being like, hey, their defense is better than people give him credit for its rebounding rate.

I'm a I'm a truth teller, Bill. You know that. And then Daryl would be like, but will it work in the playoffs, you know, blah, blah, blah. And you're like, OK, right. I'm sure you're sick of hearing it, but guess what? It doesn't work.

But yeah, no, I want Houston fans one more.

I want one more year of listening to them tell me it's actually going to be the year that it actually works, which is dangerous, which is dangerous because you never know. One injury here, one injury there. Chris Paul, two years ago, maybe they have a ring, but the Philly part of it would be fascinating because I can't believe I'm actually saying yes as much as I love Embiid.

But I I think the light gets to your torn up by the street, do you like this? I am this good. No, you don't get triggered by fake trades, but this one's really in your head. It's living there. Yeah, it's like Hailer here at the Celtics just living inside you.

I because you know, what I think is interesting about it is about a year ago. Can you imagine all of us collectively saying, yeah, I'd probably rather trade and be than Simmons, that's a pretty big leap from where we were a year ago. Greed?

Yeah, because I think physically I just didn't like what I saw last year and neither did you. And now is year over year and a half older. I actually love a lot of Embiid. I really do.

But if you told me I could get Embiid with a chip on his shoulder out of this trade, that would be my number one most appealing thing to for your being too dismissive of my Westbrook.

Eighteen point though I think. I'm buying Westberg stock, I think he's good next year would get it.

You actually got me there. I thought you were serious.

Yeah, well, you know, his calf was bothering him. Oh, I don't know. I don't think he was it was hard for him to shake off the covid.

You know, there's a whole road map for was Russ more compromise than he let on in the bubble last year? Why Russ is going to have another superstar says, I can't believe he made 30 bob. I was outraged as not just absolutely outraged Khris Middleton. He didn't make it because of this weird forward center point thing that I didn't even know existed. Do you see that whole thing? Yeah, I did know I did when I said I wouldn't believe that.

But Westbrook was so good in those two months that that's all he really needed to do. And I'd like to think that the whole year counts. Yeah, me too. It apparently doesn't. Again, I don't vote for it, so I don't I don't put the amount of time I like. Look, if I voted for it, obviously I would I would take it very seriously. But when I saw that I went out while the voters, a bunch of voters just went ahead with Westbrook because he was insane those last few months.

This is kind of funny, though, because as you're talking about the Westbrook injury thing, because these articles are already written, they're just coming out whenever the season starts that it's like, look, there's a lot going on.

Rondo's brother made fun of them, you know, emotionally, emotionally. That's just, you know, the bubble.

They were told that they were told Rondo's brother was not going to make fun of them during live action.

They've said that the barber was supposed to be off limits. He wasn't. He he took some liberties. We'd heard there in more international reporters, but. When LeBron was struggling tonight in game four and he just the number, you know, he just didn't look like LeBron in game four, that's OK. If we've learned anything about these players as your favorite players probably are going to look like himself or the best version of himself a couple of times if your team's going deep, I was wondering who was going to jump at the chance to go.

Well, LeBron has just you know, this bubble thing has started where guys down it was with the basket gone, if the series had gone to two. I can see I wish I could bet on Fandor for that who will write? LeBron, what have you seen the thing about how the the the closer the team is, the better it is for them in the bubble? I like that whole thing. Like the Celtics had a pool party the other day to get to a game three say this bubble takes the advantage for them.

They actually like hanging out. And then you read the Clipper stuff and you're like, oh, no wonder they got the hell out of there after to. Yeah, I guess I, I just feel like we live. I can't believe we live in a world where Markieff Morris is going to play in crunch time for finals team like what the fuck is going on. Honestly, well, that's what happens when you you know, you have that option, because somebody has asked me the day like, do you think the Lakers are bad at developing players?

And I went, uh, you know, back to twenty fifteen if you want to go. D'Angelo Russell. We're talking three different coaches. Yeah. The heat, the heat have a system in place, the development of Bam hero Duncan. It's incredible. So the easy answer is yes. But ultimately, like, who cares what you're developing when you can trade them all for Anthony Davis? So and I think Ingram getting out of L.A. was just helped him.

I agree.

You know, I said, look, this isn't this is the reason why you're talking about Markieff Morris right now is because you go, all right, they traded everything for Davis. We keep our depth or you go get that guy pear's pairs you'd want for the next five years. Your choices are Loukia poison gas. Yokich, Murray, Tatum, Brown, Simmons and Embiid. Rank them one for. All right, Miss, the third one in there, so look at that person as Yokich, Marie Simmons Embiid Tatum Brown ranked them one through four.

That's actually way harder. Then you think because I think you almost. Simmons and beat I've seen enough of Brown, have them have them for the Browns, the worst player of the eight. Yeah, come on, he's been awesome in the spinmeisters. And I guess where you have August eigth, so you have Loukia one in August 8th, I bet, yeah. Yes, well, only because for Zynga it's just because of the injuries. I can't believe I to say this, but I think it's I think it's Yokich.

Murray is the first choice. And then it's Loukia because and I don't care who the other guy is. I had Luca posing as Yokich, Marie Tate and Brown Simmons Embiid If I Luca, if it was Luca Dwight Powell, would you have taken Luca. Listen, I was going to tell you as if it was Luca. Seth Curry. That's still my number of pick. Hey, don't disrespect Seth Curry. No I really, I would have just said I'm getting, I'm getting to two good guys.

Watch it Luca. Seth Curry would be my but yeah. So yeah. Luca and anybody is my number one pick. Because what we're watching in the bubble this year and this round, it's like that's how you win the title with the guy who does all that stuff like Miami one, game three with a game forward. Tyler Hero doing a Loukia impression. It's that's how you're going to win and a basketball is. Now you have to have that guy.

It's so weird that you need that guy so much more than you need a center, because we grew up in a world where it's like you got to get that center, got the big guy. And now it's like you got to get Loukia. You have to have a guy like that who can create a shot for himself or other people. There's just no spacing that, you know, there's just the game, it looks like a completely different sport and sometimes I'm not saying like, you know, what I really miss is 18 second post possessions.

There were eight people watched. But there's other nights, too, where I see thirty two percent shooters jacking it up from 30 feet out. Or I go, yeah, this is way better. Can I give you one more?

I'm just trying to figure out who I could put with Luka for you to take him. Not number one.

What if it was Luka and Westbrook's contract and still take Luca? What if it's Luke and John Wall? It's still taken, it's just a look attacks. What if it's Luca and Draco? Can I give you one more Luca and Rick Reilly now? Zach Levine. And Wendell Carter. Or Marvin Bagley, Buddy Hield. Yeah, I'm going to take anybody that I mean the Zach Levine thing, you always usually going to lose me.

I still have a lot of hope for Wendell Carter though. I do. Ed I and I'll go buddy. And in the unknown of Bagley high ceiling. Bagley high high ceiling. How about Zach Levine for Buddy TRID? Didn't the Kings try to sign Zach Levine. Didn't they try to offer him that time? But they didn't. I don't remember off the top of my head, let's find it, buddy buddy Ferzat Kevin. On paper, like they would never say exactly, but you and I both like Buddy Mark.

Right, you don't exactly know, you know, like Zach Levine a lot as LeBron. Yeah, there you go. All right, we're going to take a break and we're going to talk football, which we really do in this podcast.

Looking forward to it. All right. We're doing our picks, doing it with Fasullo this week. So excited to have another live body. I had an awesome week last week where we talked about in a second. But by now you've probably heard fantasy sports books, world class sports betting app. Yeah. You know about it. They make it easy to find a place your bets. They've got some of the best ads you'll find anywhere. Those are the ads that we use for million dollar pics every week.

It's the only place where you can play the same game, parlay NFL bets this season. When you win, they even get your winnings in as little as 24 hours. That's a lot of reasons to try Fanjul Sportsbook.

But right now, my new users that I'm bringing to fantasy sports, but because you're going to be one of them, you can place their first bet on fantasy sports book risk free, get up to one thousand dollars back and say credit.

If you don't win, no strings attached, that's it. Place any bet you want. And if you win, you keep the cash. And if you lose, you get your entire bet up to one thousand dollars back in, say, credit. I am about to give you an awesome teaser with million dollar pics that if you're going to go ahead and try. This this week, this will be it if you want to actually join Fanjul sportsbook and if you're a current customer, be sure to check out the double up promotions for NFL, NBA and NHL for NFL through as you place the pregame money in which MONEYLINE wager, if your team scores 35 plus points, you double your winnings.

Max is fifty dollars and Sakurada eligible wager one per person surfboarding. Download the fantasy sports book. Be sure to sign up with promo code B.S. so they know I sent you in again. That is Fanjul Sportsbook Promo Code B.S.. You must be 21 one plus present in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Illinois, West Virginia, Indiana or Colorado. First online real money wager only say credit non Dropbox by seven days restrictions apply.

Gantley Problem Call one 800 gambler West Virginia 800 Gamble Dannette Indiana hundred with the Colorado eight hundred fifty to forty seven hundred. Let's do it. Let's make some picks.

All right, I was right about Zakopane, they did the kicked did off for an hour. All right, we're debating our picks in one second. We're going to be using the lines from Fandor. I'm going to give you three quick NFL topics before we do the picks. Topic number one is Drew Brees washed up. Too early. You got to give me you've got to give me more than two weeks, especially one of them without Michael Thomas and a Saints defense that I actually really like coming in, they got lit up by Derek Carr and the Vegas Raiders.

So, you know, just we do I know he wasn't throwing the football down the field.

I get all I get all of the criticisms. I'm not telling you still awesome. I just need a little bit more time before I'm ready to say, hey, they're doomed with Drew Brees.

Would you least rather be the Giants or the Jets? The Jets. Jets are missing all the school guys this week, too. I just saw that the Donald thing is looking. I can't believe I'm saying this, but it's. Do you think Donald is actually a worse option than Daniel Jones now at this point? It's pretty much dead, even Darnel might be like a one minus one 15 favorite, but he's played a little closer. Yeah, it's way closer than that I think I ever expect.

How about you? Who would you rather be? I'd rather be the Giants. I think I at least have a couple skill guys that I like, the Jets are not only a wasteland, but the coach really seems like he's by far the worst coach out of the 32, like he is, like, dramatically terrible. Yeah, if you feel like with gays, it's like somebody would say, hey, you're not good at this, but just relax on the whole presentation, too.

Yeah, like Joe Judge, it's going to take us a while because he's so buttoned up and yet people do really like him, it appears, you know, and it's early, but the judge is going to be harder to figure out if he doesn't know what he's doing, which I don't think everybody's heard the new ones and he just doesn't have the resume that those other guys have had.

So I think Garcelon alone makes it an easy answer. My last question does did it keep you awake this week when you found out Russell Wilson had never gotten an MVP vote? How did you react? Walk me through like your first couple of days. Well, it was tough over here at Russell HQ. And you know how I feel about him. Look, I love the player, you guys just know I hate his interview so much because they're atrocious interviews.

But this is really simple. If you go through it and you go through it year to year, was somebody supposed to give us a first place vote last year over Lamar Jackson? I'll answer for, you know, with someone two years ago, supposed to give us a vote over Patrick Mahomes again. I'll answer. No. Three years ago, I actually said on my radio show all season long, I think it's Russert should be Russert should be Russ and then Russ and Brady close the way he closes.

And you're like, you know what? Brady was the right choice.

So no, Matt Ryan was Shanahan, no Cam Newton. And what he did, especially the comebacks in the second half of the season in the way he closed, where it could have been Brady that year two in 2015. So when you go and look at the years and you go, well, it sounds weird, he's never had a first place vote. But then you're basically saying, hey, somebody should have voted for the wrong guy in the years that that happens.

And I'll put it this way back in twenty fifteen, the radio lineup at ESPN was Greaney Gola Cowherd, me Van Pelt. If you voted hottest talk show host. We know that herds winning, but does it mean that greenies ugly? We do this, as you would say, and we do it right now, that we do this and we don't actually look at the year by year like just so if I told you Kobe won one MVP. Oh, my God, what the hell, Laker fans have a heart attack, right?

Like how to Kobe only win one MVP? He's the greatest player of all time. That's crazy. And then you do the exercise.

OK, well. What was the other MVP? He should have won the only other one that's even possible in 06. So then you say the Laker fans or whoever is arguing this Kobe thing, how many times did Kobe finish in the top three in MVP? You like, what, 10, 11 now is actually five. He's at first place, second place, three third places, this is over the course of, I don't know, 18, 19 years.

We think of like when we talk about the words, you think of what you think should have happened, but the year by year is just it is what it is and that's it. And it's like Kareem won six MVP, screamo, six MVP is a second place to third places. It's fucking amazing. But guess what? Kareem was amazing. He dominated the whole decade. This is the case against if you're talking about Kobe historically, like he was really, really, really good.

He was a top five guy for a long time, but he was never like dominant the way Kareem, LeBron, Jordan, Russell, Wilt Byrd won three straight MVP Barkley one three. Moses was the best part of the league for four years. You're going down the line that Kobe never had that stretch that he ripped off. But now if you look at it in twenty twenty. People would lose their minds if they like what covid-19 when one MVP and the five top three finishes what it's like?

Well, that's why we keep track of this stuff year by year. Sorry. It drives me crazy because it's not that hard, you know how long it took me to rattle off that MVP thing? I just looked it up because I go, wait a bit, let me go back and look at this and I go, OK. So you show your math, show your math. And yet there will be talk shows that they'll be on the show like Russ never going to first place vote.

And then everybody is like a collective eye roll, like they're all in on it.

And I go, I would be uncomfortable being out on set saying this stuff if I didn't go back and look at it the whole time. And that's not that hard to do. It took less than five minutes to go. Oh, wait. That's right. Oh, that's right. Shannahan in Matt, right. Oh, that's right. Brady that year. Oh, that's right, Cam. OK, and then like was anybody going who was doing the talk show in twenty eighteen that said Russell Wilson is is having a better year than Patrick Mahomes because nobody was doing it.

Nobody was doing unless you were in Seattle and you're just a homer. It was the whole thing. So it's not that hard to figure out why we had this rust thing. But I'll give it, I'll give it up. It's turned into a thing now where you're almost shamed into it so well, that big time season and they win twelve games. He's winning this thing. I think it's a little bit why LeBron did what he did when he complained about only get in the sixteen first place votes.

You're just putting more pressure on everybody and making them rethink it. And it's almost like a guilt trip.

It's like when my dad makes me feel guilty that I haven't been to Boston in nine months. It's like I know what you're doing, it's a little tiny dog, but I know the purpose behind it.

If you take a private jet back, I'll go with you.

But LeBron, we've run it up.

But I think the bubble may have cost LeBron an MVP this year if we have a normal regular season with momentum coming off that thing we did. And I don't think even Wilbon did it like he started talking it up and then it starts carried over. And we said that that night. Right. We we called it going if this were to continue on some like, nice clothes. And they have the best record, actually, I don't think they're going to catch Milwaukee.

I don't remember the record all the time I had now, but then it resets and then no one really cares. The Lakers weren't really they actually played terrible and the bubble stuff wasn't going to count towards voting anyway because they said didn't want to make it unfair for any of the awards.

But I'm. You know, LeBron could sit there and say, I didn't get enough first place votes, but you go, OK, but statistically, especially when you look at the whole picture, it was kind of hard to put you first unless you were voting for the story, which some people did. But the narrative, the narrative part of it, which, you know, I've been I've been guilty of falling for that, too. I'm not going to I'm not going to lie.

Maybe we should try not maybe we should vote for the MVP five years after the season happens.

I think the Oscars. That's what I wonder if the Oscars. All right. Million dollar pics week. We got week one. I lost eight hundred forty eight thousand dollars. Well, last week, I hit everything I want to point to four million dollars, so now I'm up three hundred seventy eight thousand dollars for the season, I'm going to go through my picks to do. I haven't officially signed off on this, but I'm going to tell you what I'm thinking and I'm just going to bounce these off.

I have a general idea what I'm going to do. There's three games that I like, but I'm staying away from. First one, Titans, that Vikings. Titles are favored by two and a half. And it's one of those games where you look at and you go titans, you can't wait to bet on them. The Vikings suck their half of the year from out. This would be easy. I don't know why the lions. Not three.

It seems too easy and I can't think of a single reason to take the Vikings, so that actually scares me and I'm staying away. Can you think of a reason to take the Vikings? Only that they can't be this bad. I mean, Cousins, who is not exactly my dude, I this is like, atrocious.

Yeah. You know, they just lost bar. I think they're I think they lost like three of their top five linebackers going into this weekend. So that number seems so small, but it has to be it's the second most public number as far as public money on the Titans. So only the Buccaneers have more public money on them in their Broncos match up. So that alone with my old Van Pelt days of fading the public, that alone would scare me a little bit.

But, yeah, it looks it looks pretty sticky. The other thing that worries me about this, if you like the Titans, is they barely beat the Jags last week. And you come out of that and go out of the Jags Frisky and then the Jags get harassed by Miami. That's not a good sign for Tennessee. So that game is to stay away. Second game that I'm staying away from, even though I stared at it for a while.

The Washington professional football team is getting seven and a half points against Cleveland, I love getting that extra half point. The Browns people are feeling good about them. After last week, little to two headed running attack. Baker didn't kill them. They're home again. I really like Washington's defense not as solid on their offense. I really wanted to take the seven and a half with Washington, but here's why I'm not doing it. I actually think Cleveland might have found something with the with the two headed Russian monster, with Chubb and with Kareem Hunt over the course of Four Corners.

It's really tough. I mean, I say those two might be two of the best, like eight or nine running backs in the league. And you got Chubb one series and then Hunt comes in. And I actually think they found an identity last week. And it scares me enough that I'm going to stay away, even though I can't believe that the line is that high. But we might be coming back to them in a second for the long shot parlay of the week.

But for the seven and a half, I'm going to stay away. I'd rather beat Washington straight up. Any thoughts on this?

I think Washington might be terrible. Yeah, yeah, and because the Eagles were so bad in that game and Haskins had a couple of plays and I think people talked themselves into young quarterbacks and who knows with Haskins. But I think the second week of Washington is more in line with probably who they are right now. So I wouldn't want to I feel like that's the kind of game where you go. Why did I bet on Washington when they might be awful and they lose by 20, which is why we're staying away.

Third one. So the Texans are getting four in Pittsburgh, and I do like to own two teams in certain situations, even though I do not like the Houston team that much. But, you know, they played Kansas City and Baltimore the first two weeks. There's no way to know if this team is even good or not. Their schedule is never going to approach those first two weeks again. And then with the Steelers like. I don't know, they didn't look great against the Giants then that Denver game, Jeff Driskill comes in halfway through and they're lingering and hanging around and then Denver has a chance to win.

I have no idea if the Steelers are good. And I look at this stuff like. Am I getting three points? And in this, I just think with with this being a must win for the Texans against the two Steelers, I feel like the line should be three or three and a half and it's four. So I feel like I'm getting at least a three point, and yet I'm still staying away because I don't like this Texans team. What do you think?

I love the 012 theory, especially when you think about who they played. But it's been pretty ugly, but. I'm that big a fan of DaShawn that I take a shot at it, but the personnel for the Steelers defense is. Something I still really like, you kind of navigate through, you're like, all right, by the end of the month, how am I going to feel about some of these defensive groups? I think Steelers have a chance to be one of those groups you're going to like.

And the depth the receiver, again, with unknown dudes, unless you're big into college football, looks like you haven't skipped a beat in evaluating the receivers. But Houston can't be the chase.

Claypoole what the love. She did it again. Yeah. And then the other Patriots can never do it. And the Steelers just do it every year. All right. So you agree stay away on this one. Yeah, I think there's other stuff I like better. OK, go ahead. All right. So here's what we're looking at. I've done a tease both weeks. I like doing the teasers, so I love the cards. I've watched every play of both Cardinals games, and I just like them against the Lions.

I don't think the Lions secondary is very good. I like Cuyler. I think something's happening with that team. And I'm not sure people totally realize that they're only favored by five against the Lions. So you have a chance to team that with Tampa. Tampa is in Denver. I don't love Tampa. I do love their defense. And I do think they're at least pretty good. Denver's a team that it it has gone sideways and then some like they just lost Courtland.

Sutton didn't have a quarterback. Followers long gone. Yeah. And they're also in a really good division. You know, where you're you're with the Chiefs. The Raiders are two of know. The Chargers look fuckin really frisky last week and they're better, too. So they're kind of clearly the fourth place team. They've had some bad luck. It seems like they're at this point in the season where it might actually go really sideways and maybe you even start thinking, fuck it, maybe we should really, really suck.

So if I can tease the Cardinals to plus one in Tampa to even and I just need those teams to win. I'm going to do that. My question for you is I could do a three t'mar, make it a 10 point points, and I could bring in the Colts minus 11 and a half at home against the Jets who are missing all of their receivers, their running back. Guys all over the place and Adam Gates is their head coach, do I even need to bring the Colts in or should I just do the Cardinals in Tampa as the team tees?

Yeah, the more dangerous you get with all this stuff, though, like the more likely you're going to get screwed on some outcome that nobody sees coming, which would be a Jets win against the Colts, right? Yeah, it seems impossible on paper.

Phil Rivers just fucking make a you do. You've done this long enough. You don't need me to tell you the lesson of how stupid you feel when you first learn about all these different things you can do when you're like, oh, wait, are you serious? Dude, that team sucks.

I had to give out one on my Fanjul pick and I gave out Detroit because it opened at three and then it went to six and now it's five or five and a half. And it's the second most publicly bad bedside on the cards because everybody just likes him now. Everybody kind of likes them. I don't know that it's revenge for the tie last year. I don't know if you put that up, you put that up in the the whiteboard and be like last year we tied sucked.

But I could see Detroit. But since you're teasing it down and it's basically to pick arms, I like that combo. I do.

I'm just going to go ahead and say, oh, the concept is when I'm fully prepared, I think you keep it at two. I think I like I like you better at two teams than three teams. OK, all right. So we're lacking those in cards. Minus five, Tampa minus six. Next one. It looks a tiny bit too easy, but maybe it doesn't falcons minus three over the Bears. To me, the Falcons are one and one team.

The onside kick thing was absolutely ludicrous. It was a once in a lifetime fuckup. They outplayed Dallas. They deserved to win. They didn't win. I love the fact that they can move the ball and score, which they did over and over again against Dallas. My question with the Bears. Atlanta's defense is not very good. Now, Atlanta is also open to which I love coming off a bad loss. This is a revenge week for them where they just got to atone for there's no one believes no one, two teams like you two.

I know I've always said that about you. The bears are, too. No, I definitely don't believe in them are the bears. First of all, the bears are going to go three now. That seems unrealistic. Second, if the Falcons can get to 30 points, can be matching them. In matching the points also seems unrealistic, so I like the Falcons minus three, even though it seems a little obvious. What do you think? I'm prepared to be talked out of this.

I can't bet on the bears, so I'm I'm with you there. And I mean, I'm dumb enough to keep believing that Matt Ryan can turn this thing around. I mean, I think I've been saying that since that Super Bowl loss.

So my thing is when when I bet on teams, especially teams that are going two or underdogs, whatever, I want to know that at least they're going to be able to move the ball and have drives and make plays and do stuff like that, which is going to lead us to our next team that I'm picking in.

Second, the Falcons are going to move the ball and score points. They are. Yes, sir. It's going to happen, so Ryan threw for have I have I showed you that Seattle number with Seattle's pass defenses. Now, granted, they've gone up against two teams that threw the ball all over the place, including Cam. But Seattle's giving up four hundred and twelve yards passing. And then there's only one other team that's giving up over three hundred.

And then every other team has less than three hundred. So it's like Seattle. So, yes, the easy answer to that is that no matter what Atlanta's problems are, I still can you ever imagine a Belichick coached team like no one jumping on an onside kick before the ten yards and want to say he would kill himself? He pull out a samurai sword and do that and jam a samurai in his heart.

All right. So we'll go with your gut, but I'm going to pencil in the Falcons next one. Same case, Bengals that the Eagles. Bengals get four and a half. I watch that Bengals Browns game and I think the Bengals can move the ball and throw the ball. And one of the reasons I like that says even if the Eagles are up 10 in the fourth quarter, I still feel like Burrow is going to be an unbelievable garbage time quarterback.

I think if you're down 14 and you need him to cover the to get it down to seven or whatever, he is going to have some cheap TDs. He's got decent receivers. He knows how to kind of scramble around, make plays. And he's a great, great I think they could win this game because I think the Eagles stink. I really do. I think they stink. So four and a half I thought the Lions should have been eagles by three.

I'm getting, you know, a point and a half DVOA through two weeks. Philly was last thirty second. Philly might be bad. This is basically a split, but actually just a little bit more of the public plan is on Cincinnati. I'm going to ask you this. I'm not saying Burrowers Brady, but this borough look like early, early Brady to you not. All right. We're going to air this thing out a couple years later into his career.

You know, it's not the strongest arm, but it's I think he's way more way more agile than Brady was. Even Tom Brady. Yeah. If you're going to get out and run, I mean, it's.

But Brady can never do these. Twenty three yards scramble. Step down. No, I'm not saying that, but I'm just I said just enough about say more accurate than Brady was first couple of years of his career. Brady was inaccurate like this. 1940, Brady was. All right, so he's going to be better than Brady six. No, no, did not say that. I think Brady in the 04 season vaulted the level he would be the first two seasons was not like what we saw from birth.

So you like you agree with me on this Bengals four and a half?

No. Next one I'm not positive about, I just want to talk it through doing the whole thing here now, I got three more. All right. I'm not positive on this one, Rams plus two against the bills, I think I'm staying away. I really like the Rams this year. I bet on them to win the NFC. The bills are, too. Ivano and Allen put up all these numbers, but they play to shit teams and I believe in the Rams.

It worries me, though, that they're plus two. I feel like they should be bills by three. It means that people are on the Rams, people have noticed them and something makes me nervous about it. So I'm leaning toward staying away. What do you think of two things? One, when you have the Rams actually have an offensive line and Cooper Kupp, we realized is just a different team and we almost forgot what that looks like. The offensive line graded out one of the worst, if not like the second worst in the league last year.

And Cup and one of the things I loved and we had Dilfer on the first pod and they did a really good job like how the broadcast was. That was the Sunday night, right? The Rams, the first one. Yeah. The way they were already kind of in sync with selling the way they were blocking stuff. It was just really a great call. NBC Michaels and Collins did an awesome job on that game. I thought. And I'm like, man, these guys are like really locked in.

I think that's one of McVeigh's specialties. Is he going to do what we do? We're going to make it simple, but it's going to be hard to deal with because we're just going to be that good at some of the stuff that was kind of the Chip Kelly thing in Oregon. We're like, we're just going to execute what we execute better than other teams do. And with Kupp being back in the O-line again. So I would I'm with you.

But I look, I thought Josh Allen was on the road to, like, fake hope, kind of like a Mitch Robiskie thing. And he's been now it's what the Jets in Miami, but he's he's destroyed those teams.

So I could be wrong about Allen. And that's probably why that number, like you thought it should have been they should have been favored by more L.A..

I expected the bill now. I expected the bills to be favored by three. They're favored by two. Now, I thought just because the bills were two now playoff team last year, you know. So anyway. All right, I'm going to mark that down tentatively. Two more Packers, plus three Saints. This is I'm probably staying away from this one because I wouldn't touch the obvious. This would be a pure go against Drew Brees by. I wouldn't I wouldn't know what to do with this one.

I think we'll get. A little bit more of the Drew Brees answer, except for the fact that Rodgers looks like he's mad Aaron Rodgers like four years ago. I can't help you. It's a fair line. I don't think I'm getting any value. The three, that line is what it is. The only question is without Michael Thomas, can the Saints move the ball? I just assume. They're going to pull weird champagne and reverse shit in a couple of gimmick plays and stuff like that to hold off on this one, probably last one would be cowboys plus five of the Seahawks.

You mentioned how bad the Seahawks past defense was. The reason I like this one is just because five points is a lot, I mean, garbage time touchdown territory with that two. If the Seahawks are up 10, I can still cover with the late touchdown. I don't understand why this is in Cowboys three instead of Cowboys five. New England almost covered, I mean, if they get the two point conversion, they cover that game, I mean, on top of almost winning.

So I don't have any problem with with taking that many points at the very least, are going to move the ball against him just like anybody else has. And another week with the receivers and Dak and I think some of the no huddle stuff that they had to run just to get back to that game against Atlanta and he starts putting on a show, I would think that they'd be a little bit more aggressive and try some more of that stuff. So I would rather have all those points than than trying to get past them.

So, yeah, the fear on this one is they have no linebackers and Seattle has the ball for like 40 minutes. So I just want to talk about that part for one second. There's a version of this game where Seattle just completely dominates and Dallas never has the ball.

Yeah, but we got to see it from a defense. It has to be good now for a few years. I mean, it's been OK, but it hasn't been very good against its secondary. I didn't really even realize it because when I was looking at stuff over the Adams trade, it was like, wait, oh, they're secondary is actually kind of stuck now for a while. Well, they had no pass rush. I mean, Tim came could do whatever he wanted last week.

All right. Last one is the long shot parlay of the week. I'm putting Cincy in there. I do. I sprinkle a little on. I love the long shots to win and so is like ten to one odds. So since his plus one eighty four and that's going to be one of them. Other possibilities for the second spot, Raiders plus one ninety eight against the Pats. I can't do that because I love the Pats. Washington plus two seventy five Carolina plus two thirty against the Chargers.

No McCaffrey Dallas plus one eighty four in Seattle. Or that's it, you like any of those? I don't like Panthers charges, I'm telling you, man, I think that Chargers defense is awesome. I like Irwin James. Yeah, I'm a fan. So you had one that I love. Raiders, Pats. There you go. Raiders, you get one ninety eight. Are you going to be shocked if the Raiders now you know you're at.

I had it down and I was like, the thing is like this is a long shot parlay and I care more about being accurate and obviously I'll be rooting for the Pats.

It's like I'm going to be like, oh, I got this parlay. I got to figure out whatever. All right. So that is one I like. I like your loser Pali voice. Thank you. Six plus seven. Forty six. For that raider's plus one ninety eight with Sensi. Plus one eight four. All right, so here's what we're doing. Five hundred k a teaser cards minus five. Tampa minus six. Two hundred and fifty can the following four falcons, minus three of the Bears.

Bengal's plus four and a half over the Eagles Cowboys, plus five over the Seahawks and Rams, plus two over the bills, and then the long shot parlay of the week is Raiders plus one ninety eight and Cincy plus one eighty four. I'm going to put. I'm going to go light on that one, I'm going to go 10K to win seven, it's basically seventy four thousand six hundred. How's that sound to you? Do you like this, was it more fun with Van Pelt?

I thought the second one. No, no, no, no. It was not any fun with Van Pelt. Van Pelt was an asshole about it the whole time and he knows it. So I don't I'm not like he would just look at me go because I didn't put a ton of time into it. No shocker. I did used to love to bet and then I just felt like, I don't know, I was when I wasn't and I don't have any money.

It was kind of suck to not not be winning. So but Scott loved it.

He wanted he wanted to be known as like the guy and he was pretty good. But the thing is, Stanford was better and that used to like Scott, we get super competitive about it. And he basically would just look at me to be like, get done with your five stupid pics and let the show begin. So it was a very much like that was his thing. He loved giving out his pecs. He'd be talking about the board all week.

He'd have his card, he'd give out three tastes. But those were official picks. He didn't like any exotics, but that was like his thing. And I got that it was his thing. But for my role on it, it wasn't a lot of fun. And then if I had a good year and beat him, he would tell me that I didn't deserve to beat him. He'd be like, well, that was just stupid. You should have won this year.

And I'd go, Yeah, but I did. And they'd be like, whatever. Or if I were ahead in the standings, he'd be like, You're not going to win, you know? And I'm like, All right, relax, guy.

Wow. Well, he knows this when you guys start seeing a marriage counselor. We only had like four fights ever in six years. So I'm I'm I love our track record. But he knows that that segment was like I should have not even done it. I should just gone. Gone. Look at your favorite thing to give out picks just to go solo. Yeah. To have it be your thing because you're including me, because there was always this stuff.

And if I weren't included then maybe I would have a shit head about it back then anyway. But that was, that was his time to shine. And I just knew, like, after a while, after six years of it, I was like, all right, because he would just be like, wrap it up, wrap it up, wrap it up. I'm going to go. And I think I got it. He never actually did the finger roll in front of me.

That's always a bad finger roll. Yeah, that's. Would you do your cohost? Hey, wrap it up. That's you know, you guys are headed for a fight. All right. So we'll be back next Thursday. I'm assuming the finals is going to start Wednesday unless we have a game seven. But if we have, I don't know. We're gonna have to figure this out because there might be a basketball game next Wednesday. So we're going to have to figure out our schedule first, then we'll just do it all.

We'll see at some point next week. Our man sounds good. All right, thanks to Rosillo, thanks to Spotify, thanks to simply say, remember, they've got everything you need to protect your home with none of the drawbacks of traditional home security. Set it up yourself in under an hour. No technician required no contract, no push the sales guys, no hidden fees, no fine print. All of it starts at fifteen dollars a month. Had to simply save dotcom jobs.

Get a free HD camera for my listeners.

Once again, Supersaver Dotcom simply safe with two eyes back Sunday with the Cubs breaking down week three, hopefully breaking down, hopefully break it down, hopefully break it down.

I said it three times. The dramatic Celltex comeback in game five and game six. Can't wait to see that.