Coming up part 2 of the podcast, me, Kevin O'Connor, talking Tuesday night and Monday Night Hoops next. We're also brought to you by the Ringer podcast Network, where I put up a new rewatchables. We did Hardcore on Monday. It was the last episode of Rock Bottom Month. You can watch it on youtube. Com/bilsimmons this week as well. If you missed part one of this podcast, me and Ben Solak broke down the NFL draft. I threw a lot of theories at him. We tried to figure out what quarterbacks we liked, if there's any trends. I had a great time. I also have a great time on FanDuel, where we're going to be doing something with FanDuel Sportsbook on either Wednesday or Thursday night, probably Wednesday night, but we're going to boost something, and I've been on a boost hot streak, so stay tuned for that NBA Playoffs boost coming Check my Twitter. Coming up on this feed, man, the weekend of the playoffs wasn't that good. Then all of a sudden, the playoffs got good Monday night, Tuesday night. Lots of stuff to talk about. Kevin O'Connor is here. We're going to talk NBA next. First, our good friends who have a new album out from Pearl Jam.

All right, we're taping this part 2. It is almost 10:00 Pacific Time. Just watch Clips Dallas. Kevin O'Connor is here. Is Dallas back? Are we ready to go here? Is Dallas the contender that we were waiting for that didn't show up over the weekend, but now they're here?

It sure felt like they were back in that second half of the game once Lucas started rolling. I mean, the entire game, I was waiting for Luca to come out. He had the weird game at the end of the third quarter, a missed layup, but then he ends up hitting a three, and it felt like that turned things around. But ultimately, this is the version of Dallas that I felt like you were expecting to see entering the postseason with Derrick Jones Jr. And P. J. Washington, those additions on defense this past year. Their off-ball defense was amazing, complementing the star scoring of Kyrie Irving and Luka. I thought both of those guys, even though Luka didn't have his best scoring game overall, Kyrie, as a complement, incredible defense throughout, great energy, down and attacking. Played hard, Josh Green as well in his minutes. It just felt like this is definitely compared to the first two times we saw Luka against the Clippers when they lost and he went toe to toe with some incredible Kauai performances, this is by far the best overall roster that Luka has gone against the Clippers with. And I think they definitely look like a team that was back on track, even going back to the first half of the first game, Bill.

Yeah. And then Tim Hardaway gets hurt, which means Green plays more, which I think actually helped them. But I went to Sunday's game, and you could feel in the second half, they were starting to figure out the pace against the Clippers and how to slow things down and what to do. And then this game was an extension of that. I mean, neither team got to 100 points. The Kawhi variable seemed like it screwed up the Clippers. I know there was a lot of debate with the Clippers about whether to just have him rehab for a couple more days, bring him back for game three, try to steal one more with him. Taelou stuck with him. I don't think he should have. Would it? Kawhi finished seven for 17, but I just thought he looked a step slow. I didn't think he had any lift. He didn't make a three. And Terrence, man, how many minutes did he have? 21?

21, yeah.

He was one of the heroes of game one. I just thought they missed his energy. The worst version of this Clippers team is when everyone's just standing around and the clogged toilet offense officially takes effect. And Tyler is over in the sideline with the plunger. And it's like, Oh, it's Paul George's turn. Oh, it's Harden's turn this time. And Westbrook's in the corner just waiting for somebody to miss so he can come flying in from the side. But really stilted, weird. They went away from Zubats, who at one point was like, One for six, one for seven. And he was somebody that was just killing Dallas in the last game. But I thought they blew a really good chance to go up 2-0, to put the Mavs on their heels. The Mavs were griping a little bit during that game that I went to in game one. And now all of a sudden, the Mavs have their mojo back. And then you have this Kawhi piece. What did you see from Kawhi? What did you like and not like?

I mean, with Kawhi, he had his moments. It's his first game back. I'm not going to overreact to just him going 7 of 17. I understand why you play him as much as you did in the game. He's Kawhi Leonard.

But at the same time- So you think it was like a let's knock some rust off him type of situation?

I think so. I mean, you need Kawhi ultimately in the series. And I think for the Clippers overall, you mentioned- Do you need Kawhi? You do need Kawhi. If you believe in the belief- But do you need not totally healthy Kawhi?

Or are you better off just hoping he's healthy for the last three, four games? Because the Kawhi today, they did not need.

I mean, they did not need this version of Kuaia, but you still need at least 80% Kuaia or 90% Kuaia because of the belief in this Mavericks team. I felt like part of the reasons why, like you said, the toilet was clogged for the Clippers on offense was that overall collective defense by the Mavericks. Derrick Jones Jr. And P. J. Washington, their off-ball defense, shading off of Terrence Mann, shading off of Russell Westbrook or blatantly ignoring him a lot of the time, putting pressure on James Harden, Paul George, Kawhi Leonard, taking away driving lanes, recovering, and then switching on ball at times. I thought P. J. Washington, he had a really good overall game. I know he missed some easy layups, which was weird, but he hit some big threes down the stretch. His on ball defense, I thought he made things hard on Kawhi a lot of the time. So this is what they got him for. This is what they went out for last year to get Derek Jones Jr. To surround Luka and Kyrie with versatile defenders. I felt like that the matchup in this game was a lot better also with the way they played Zubats.

Gaffer only plays nine minutes tonight. He stunk in the first game. Zubats just bullied him completely.

He got hurt a little bit, too, right? He did, yes. It felt like he stepped on an ankle or something.

It seemed like something did happen there. Lively played 21 minutes, and he's under size, too. But what that did put the Mavericks into was playing more small ball with Cleba, who was way better in game two tonight than he was in game one. But they were swarming. Sometimes when Zubats would get the ball near the paint or in the paint, like fourth quarter, they had two, three guys swatting at the ball, taking it away from him. They were all over him by committee. It wasn't just playing him one-on-one when he was one of the league's most efficient post players of the entire season. So I think the Clippers collectively, as an offense, went against a better Mavericks defense. And to me, that was the big difference in the game. And then Luka just took over at the end in order to take the win for Dallas.

They filled out the Cleba thing in the second half game one because I think they started to realize the centers maybe didn't make sense against this Clippers team, which is weird because that was one of the things we loved. I like the way Lively was jumping off guys in game one and guarding guys 25 feet from the basket. For the most part, they're getting overpowered. Who's more scared right now where this series goes in 10 days? Who would this be a worse loss for? Because I was thinking today about the stakes. Cleba hit that three with two minutes left. Dallas was up three. The clips were coming back, and it started to feel a little Lakers Nuggets-y, like what happened in Lakers Nuggets game, too. And I was thinking like, Oh, my God, if Dallas blows this, they've traded basically all their picks to go all in on this team. They don't have a lot of optionality after this season, other than the mid-level. It's like, Man, if they can't get out of this series, this is brutal. But then the game ends today, and the Clipper fans who were on such a high over the weekend are now like, Oh, my God, Now we have to win a game in Dallas.

And Dallas is really good in Dallas, at least since the deadline. So I think there's a little more pressure now on the Clippers only because I don't know if they know who they totally are with this Kauai variable. Whereas the Mavs, at least they know who they are. They're like, Yeah, we're a little small. We have to go a little small ball. Kyrie and Luke are going to take a bunch of shots. Hopefully, a couple of other swing guys will make a shot or two. But we know what we are. I'm not sure Clippers even know who their best five is right now?

I think with the Clippers to answer your first question, Bill, they are the team under more pressure, considering just the fact the sheer age of this team, the commitment that they're going to have to make the James Harden or Paul George or both of them this summer. There's just a lot of pressure on the team opening a brand new franchise. They also don't have a ton of assets or youth on their team either. With the Mavs, at least, they still have Luca and Kyrie, and they still have some youth on their side in time with Luka. Not a lot of time, but they have time at least.

And whereas the Clippers- What does that mean, KFC? I mean, if they go three, four more years without getting to a West Vinyles again, then, of course, suddenly you're going to start here and talk of Miami LA, New York for Luka, but we're not there yet.

We're not close. Whereas with the Clippers, we're already talking about Paul George potentially flirting with the Sixers this offseason as a guy who could go into their cap space. That's already a conversation.

I was thinking about that. He's just going from this Kauai roller coaster for the last few years, not knowing if Kauai is going to play next week. For how many years? Four, five? Yeah. He's going to go from that to Embiid?

I know. One roller coaster.

I would want to go to the most durable guy on the planet for my next guy. It's like, Hey, was Jokaj having a cap space?

California adventure park, 6 Flags, a roller coaster the next.

I mean, it's just- Seriously?

What a choice that be.

Is he watching the Philly Nicks series? You know what? Philly He's looking great. If I were him, I'll go to Orlando because I think if he's going to leave the Clippers, I would want to play in Orlando because that's a team that actually needs Paul George, and he brings a specific skill set that would really help them. Plus, he lives in Florida, no state tax, all that shit.

A lot of benefits there. But we'll see what he ends up doing.

He goes to Philly with Philly doing a grievance? The fuck was that?

Why did they do that? It's such sour grapes.

That's the most anti There's so many things you could do. Here's my grievance. I can't think of a dumber thing to do.

Somehow the Sixers have become the Rockets. Mori just took it there. I don't understand.

I love Darryl, but God damn it. I know.

To me, Darryl- Why does he do that stuff? What Darryl should have done is used his platform on social media and said, Hey, here's ways that we can be better at recognizing time out calls. Let's improve things. Be a little constructive. Just file on that appeal. It doesn't do anything. It just makes you look like a whiny baby.

Kfc, here's a fucking news flash. It's at MSG. It's a playoff game. The crowd's going crazy. I agree. You're probably not going to get the touch foul on Tyrese Maxi with 12 seconds left. It's not happening. You're not getting those calls. It's the way the league has worked the entire time I've rooted for it. The games are going to be reffed a tiny bit differently when it's a crazy, crazy playoff crowd and teams are super aggressive all game. Get a rebound. I mean, Hartenstein, that last rebound that got kicked back out to Dante, he just... And Bede is boxing out. Nobody. He's boxing out like an imaginary man. And Tobias Harris is just like, I have the best seating the house. I'm just in the paint watching all these shots go by. Hartenstein just comes flying in, gets the rebound, kicks it back out. They had two fucking guys there. Are you complaining about the refs? Get a rebound.

I agree. I mean, the Sixers guys were standing around, whereas Josh Hart just went in hard. Hartenstein followed up, grabbed the board. Like that was, no pun intended, all Hart in those closing moments by the Knicks to grab the board. I think the complaining about the calls is absurd.

If Embiid had an Apple Watch on that just counted his steps in the last 40 seconds of the game, he's just wandering around in a small circle as just all hell is breaking loose. He's not moving anywhere. Anyway, I think Dallas is a better team than the Clippers. I don't know if that means they're going to win the series, but this feels like a best in the series series to me, and Luka is the best player in the series. If Kawhi is compromised, which he clearly is, then that means this has to be a Paul George matches Luka, and I just don't think he's on the same level. This is Dallas's series to lose. It doesn't mean they're going to win it, but especially with three home games and Luka, I thought, Man, I wish he was in better shape. I'd like to introduce him a couple of salads and maybe some sparkling water and some fruit.

Sparkling water? Is that good for weight loss?

Well, instead of soda.

Okay, instead of soda, okay. That's a good replacement.

The Tees. What does he drink? The Sweet Tees?

I don't know. Sweet Tees. Probably a lot of beer, too. A lot of alcohol. Replace that.

You know what you shouldn't drink when you're a star professional basketball player is beer.

Just ask James Harden.

Just ask Larry Bird. That's how he started winning MVPs. He stopped drinking beer during the season. He literally says that. He's like, Yeah, I stopped drinking beer. All right. Let's do Bucks Pacers because Suns Wolves, I have deeper thoughts on. The Pacers were the team that I picked up to win the series and I wagered on them. Then they showed up for game one, or they didn't show up for game one, and just looked nervous and looked like the classic young team that didn't realize that the playoffs were going to be harder than the regular season, and they sucked. Halliburton looked bad. For him, he's looked not great for two months. This game was different. They had the same pace they had in some of those October, November, December games. They played with speed. Without Giannis out there, the big thing was Siakam. They just Bucks have no wing on their roster with size who can deal with his athleticism. He's had the two highest point games, I think, in round one so far. I think the Bucks are in real trouble here because Because they didn't really mention the honest thing today. It feels like another week.

What do you think? Maybe he's back for game five, six?

Maybe four at the earliest.

Are you rushing him back when the Are you sure that the Celtics are a prohibitive favorite to win the East? Are you like, Yeah, let's fuck around with Giannis' strained calf? I'm not fucking around with that.

It's a difficult choice. Because we saw, obviously, you hope nothing ever would have happened like did to Kevin Durant after he returned.

That's the 10 out of 10 terrible scenario.

That's the worst case scenario of what could happen if you rush him back, especially if you're down to one in the series or even three one in the series. Is it really worth it to bring him back at all? Obviously, We'll see. It seems like he's trending up, but trending up doesn't mean a close to return to game action. Ultimately, he is the key to it, to everything. If Giannis doesn't return, the series will go the Pacers way, which is why I also picked him to win the series, just with the uncertainty with Giannis. But for him, if he comes back, he fixes two main things. A, he's helping the Bucks actually get to the paint, which is slowing the game down, drawing more files.

And he has athletic ability.

Yeah, he He's an athlete. He can jump. But if they're slowing the game down, you're limiting those transition opportunities that the Pacers are just absolutely feast on. I know you could say the Bucks need to get back, but the Pacers are a fast team. They're hard for any defense to stop and transition, especially a team lacking their best player. But then also, he's the guy who would probably be defending Pascal Siakam. You have Brooklyn Lopez defending Pascal Siakam right now, just allowing him to take open catch-and-shoot threes. Siakam has hit 40 % of them this year with the Pacers up from 34 % with Toronto. He's one of the league's better players at attacking closeouts. He has been for years ever since he was a role player with the Raptors. And tonight, he showed off everything. He showed off when they put other There's smaller guys on him, the post-ups, the cutting was there, the Isos, the transition opportunities, the playmaking. It was two complete games we've seen from Siakam. But if Giannis returns, then everything changes there. And then it becomes on Halliburton, who I still think the Pacers need to return to some form of the version we saw of him before the injury in January, because 21 points on 17 shots through two games so far, that's not going to cut it for them.

Halliburton However, he needs to find himself. He doesn't seem healthy. He doesn't seem healthy to you, does he? Yeah. It's all this- It's like 72, 78%. Rizel always makes fun of me when I had two percentages.

Might be less than that, Bill. It might be more like 67, 68.

This guy was a top five player in the league for the first 10 weeks of the season and has no resemblance to that guy.

Not even close.

And doesn't beat people off the dribble like he did. It's gotten to the point when he takes those 25 footers, I don't necessarily think they're going in, but they had a massive Siakam game, and then Turner had some big threes. The Bucks are one of those teams. We've seen it all year. If you can hit them with some punches and get them on their heels and get them to the later rounds of the fight, they just quit, which they did in the fourth quarter of the day. They just stopped getting back. If you're the Pacers, your goal was to get 1-1 going back to Indy. They did that. They play Friday, Sunday, Sunday, which I just don't think Giannis is going to be back this week. Friday, Sunday is tough for the- Feels so soon. Yeah. Friday, Sunday is tough for the Bucks because you got Middleton who played 36 minutes tonight. You got Lillard who played 39. Portis 30, Beverly 34. Those guys are old. Jake Crowder. So for the Pacers, if they can win game three, and then we're coming right back 38 hours later for game four, it's a great spot for them.

I mean, this is exactly where they wanted to be.

Definitely. And I think for Halliburton, I was looking at the numbers earlier today, ahead of the game tonight. And the three-point shot, 40 % from three prior to the injury, 32 % since then. Shots are down from 17 per game to 14 per game. Usage is down. Everything's down, right? But the one interesting thing that I found when looking at the numbers is that he's still shooting the same percentage at the rim. He's shooting even better from mid-range. He's shooting the same on catch and shoot threes. The only thing that's really worst, at least statistically, I know he looks a bit slower. He looks like he's not creating quite as much space. But the one thing that's the worst is that The dribble jumper three. So shooting threes off the dribble. So what I think with Halliburton, he should at least look at doing, he's been an elite mid-range shooter before and after that injury happened. Maybe rediscover the mid-range a little bit. He doesn't take many mid-range shots. He's one of those very anecdotally happy players at rim and then would step back threes and pull-ups. Maybe for him, it's about finding the mid-range.

He shot 60 % from mid-range since the injury, 60 %. It's just he doesn't take a lot of them. So I wonder if maybe for Hallibur and maybe tweaking his own shot selection is a way to adjust to whatever he's going through, whether it's something mental or something physical or something that other teams are doing to him on those step-back jumpers. But the mid-range is still there, at least according to the numbers.

Or just stronger drugs in his leg. Maybe that's it, too. Just maybe go horse tranquilizers.

Like with Embiid with the eye twitch. Oh, Jesus. But did you see? There's a video I watched today, Dr.

Brian's- About how was he put him in his left eye couldn't blink?

Yeah, because Embiid, if you look back in early in game one, Ubre, swiped Embiid over the eye. And ever since then, Embiid, if you look at him at the free throw line, that side of his forehead isn't wrinkling like the other side is, and the eye is not blinking. So the theory is maybe something with nerve damage or something along those lines.

Or just got tweaked in a weird way.

Yeah, but I mean, on top of the knee issue.

Dame's stats in these two games, he had 61 points in 12-3s in the first half, and he had 8 points in zero-3s in the second half and shot 21.4% field goals. I have no explanation for it, but I was thinking maybe this goes back to my thing I wanted Philly to do with Embiid, just play him in one half, just play him in the second half. If you just had Dane playing in the first half, that's it, and then he just leaves, and then Embiid comes in second half, you'd have the best team in the playoffs. We're going to take a break, and then we're going to talk about the bright future sons who are now the sad future sons. That's next. Do you know you can watch a lot of videos and clips from this podcast on youtube. Com/bilsimmons? Yeah, I put up shorts. I walk around LA, I just babble about stuff for a minute. We put up stuff from the office. We put up random live episodes like we did on Sunday night recently with me and Ryan Rosillo. Just talking NBA, the first part of the podcast you listen to here.

Yeah, we ran it on YouTube. Please subscribe, youtube. Com/bilsimmons. Com.ash Bill Simmons. All right, so Suns Wolves, the Crazy Ownership Series. Kfc, I am just filled with hatred for myself. I love Minnesota all year. I was so excited. I even had a bet with them versus the Celtics at 16 to one that I did 10 days before the playoff started. Then the Suns beat the Wolves twice in nine days. They also won that Sacramento game where they won by one. I was out on the Suns. I was like, There's something wrong with this team. I don't think they necessarily like each other. This feels like a team that could be one, two, three, Cancun, potentially. Then they suck me back in. By the time the playoff started, I'm like, They're just a bad matchup for Minnesota. They're going to beat them. Then you watch the game today Game 2, a must win, and you watch how the other game 2 road teams responded, and then you watch what they did. It was the opposite of a response. In the second half, they just looked miserable. I wasn't there. I would have loved to have been there.

But even TV body language Dr. Bill was like, I don't like what I'm seeing here. I don't see a team that's connected. I see a team that's ready to roll over and go back to Phoenix. I went from thinking this team was going to potentially beat Minnesota. Minnesota wasn't ready to now wondering if Phoenix might just check out here because they got the Edwards game that they needed today. Edwards stunk today. For him, he didn't play that well. But McDaniel steps up, and just Minnesota just seemed like they were playing harder. And Phoenix just seemed your turn, my turny, and it was bad. What were your takeaways?

My takeaways were, first of all, let's add context to it. I felt the same as you entering the series. That's just a bad matchup for the Wolves. And I picked the Suns to win the series because they just smoked them during the regular season, and it felt like a terrible matchup.

It was like that New Orleans, Portland year with Anthony Davis, where it's like, sometimes it's just a bad matchup. That's what I think we both saw in this, but we were wrong.

And ultimately, though, the Timberwolves have proven that to be completely false. I mean, we'll see how things return to Phoenix, but I have no faith in the Suns at this point with the way in which the Wolves had played. I thought tonight was... It looks very bad for Phoenix because as you said, Anthony Edwards was not great. He still was a positive player for the Wolves. He defended his ass off. He made life hard. Yeah, he's playing hard. He was great. He was awesome on Beel. I thought offensively, again, like he was in the first game, he was really good as a playmaker. He was decisive. He moved with purpose. He had a kick out in the second quarter, I think it was. Gobert on a short roll, kicked it out to Ant. He Immediately just attacked, whipped it to Jaden McDaniels for a three. I thought he was just good overall, even though he wasn't scoring. But ultimately, though, this game for the Wolves was about everybody else. Jaden McDaniels in game one was awesome defending Devin Booker. Tonight, he actually defended Kevin Durant more than he defended Devin Booker. He was still equally impactful on defense in the same way that he was that tonight on offense.

Mike Conley stepping up, that's something that it feels like the Suns are missing is that point guard, the guy to settle things down where it's your turn, my turn with the Suns, whereas with Mike Conley, his second quarter, I thought he was the reason why the Wolves didn't allow the Suns to extend the lead, because that quarter, the Suns were pretty good. I think they had a chance to extend the lead, but Conley scored or assisted on 15 of 22 points for the Wolves over a stretch, showing up everything he can do offensively. Lefty floater, righty floater, three off a screen, pull up out of a pick and roll. He had an extension layup. He did everything. And I thought that set up the Conley run, set up the third quarter where Edwards came to life a little bit late. Nakeel Alexander-Waaker was scoring and playmaking. Mcdaniels was hitting everything. And that's when extended their lead.

When McDaniels plays like that, they're basically unbeatable.

They're incredible when McDaniels is like that.

That might be the only time this series when he plays like that.

It's possible. But ultimately, though, I mean, maybe not. I mean, he does have talent.

He does. I'm just saying he's not It was one of those games.

For sure. I mean, this does serve as an example, though, when you look at the Wolves role players versus the Suns role players, role players do matter here. When you don't have Ant going off, he's three for seven, a three for twelve, and Cat was three for seven in the game, and yet you smoke the opponents. That's because of McDaniels. It's because of Conley. It's because of Alexander Walker. And I was just watching the game tonight. I think so much about the draft. I'm thinking, this is why I can't get behind the 2024 draft class stinks. Yes, it lacks star power, but this is a draft class that could be littered with star role players.

Guys who could have potentially played in this series. Yeah, you're right.

Exactly. And I think tonight's game was a good example of that. I know, by the way, the name we didn't even mention, Bill, Rudy Gobert. This is one of his Hall of Fame performances on defense. Gobert was incredible.

He was great.

He was amazing. He did everything. He dropped, he defended high in the pick and roll. He switched. Bill Gober, a Booker, went 0 for 4 with two turnovers when he defended them, those guys, man to man. Gober was amazing. And he's really one of the main reasons why they're up 2-0 in the series.

I wrote down, Minnesota win without a good Edwards game, who else can win without a good game from their star in a playoff game like this? And it's basically just them in Boston. I don't think Denver can win if Jokuj sucks. Unless Murray goes for 45. Yeah, Murray would have to... Well, I mean, it's a hypothetical because Jokuj never sucks. Never does. But for him to just really suck, I think it would be hard for them.

What about the Knicks, though? That Brunson has not been good through two games and they're up to, oh, does that not count because they're going against the Sixers team and B limited?

Yeah, I think that to me is a little more of an in B thing. But yeah, Brunson has not been good. You're right. The Knicks probably get thrown in there. How about the Thunder?

If SGA has a really off night, I think the Thunder maybe they could.

They have Jalen Williams still. You need a lot of Jalen Williams. You need the right night. A good check night. You need the right night. Isaiah Joe, five threes. Yeah. I think they can get that. Maybe.

I think OKC, Knicks, Celtics. So maybe about a quarter of the teams in the playoffs.

It's weirdly, it's almost a luxury when he has an awesome game. You assume he's going to be be be be be be be be 2-28, but they can still survive when he's not good, especially when he's passing like this. I wrote that down. I wrote down, This is why you need a point guard. The Suns, they were smarter than all of us. It was like, We're just going to trade everything for Durant. We're going to be the team that takes Bradley Beale. We don't need role players. We're the team that's going to figure out Nerkage as a reliable center, and then you're watching it just fall apart. I'm holding a thought that I'm going to throw at you. I had one more Minnesota thing. Our guy Jason Goff, who hosts the full go. Big week in Chicago. They're going to actually have a quarterback for the first time in Jason Goff's lifetime. He had this tweet, and I had to brew a special batch of settled down juice for him. Goff said, I said it before, I'll say it again, Jaden Mcdanos is my favorite defender to watch. I agree with that. If he's going to chip in like this offensively in a playoff game, MJ might have found his Scotty.

Jason, I'm sending you a 24-pack of settled down juice. Now, on paper, yeah. If Jaden Mcdanos is going to average 23 a game, I could see it. But he was 10 and 5 this year. He's 23 years old. But it did make me think, love you, Gough, by the way. It did make me think, what more is left here for Jaden McDaniels offensively? Because he is young and you figured this is going to be him and probably Gobert for a few years, Nas Reid. We'll see if Tauant stays or goes. But what's left for him offensively? Could he be more than a 10, 5 guy?

Well, it's two things. It's A, last season, more so than this year, he showed off some flashes of pull-up shooting ability from mid-range. And the hope was that that would translate to a higher volume. It hasn't. This year, he shot, I believe, 35 % on catch and shoot threes. Last year, he was better than that. He was closer to 40 %. So it's him getting that number back up. So it's higher volume, pull-ups from mid-range, that secondary creation, and then it's just better shooting off the catch. I think those are the two main things you want to see from McDaniels moving forward with him. And if you get that, then maybe you get nights like this with more frequency. I don't think he's going to be the pippin to MJ for Anthony Edwards, but I do think that there is more.

It's a bold call. I liked it.

There is more to his game, though, and he's shown flashes. It's just about putting it together. And that's what made it cool to see that tonight from him.

Well, I looked at his shot chart. I like ESPN when you can go to the shot chart. He made a couple of threes, but a lot of his stuff was in the paint. I think the thing I like about him, I like when he goes to the basket. I like when he just decisively drives, and I don't feel like he does that a lot. Maybe some of it has to do with Gobert's block in the thing, but I think we all like him. It was funny when they traded for Gobert and then they put the stuff out. We told them Jaden McDonalds was off limits after they gave up 18 first-round pics. I was like, Congrats. He kept Jaden McDaniels. But He is good. All right, it's time. This is one of my big questions. Kyle might have to turn on the hotel room TikTok camera. Are we going to be making up Devon Booker trades in late June?

Booker before Durant? Or both?

Durant can't get traded again. I can't handle that emotionally. Not again.

What does he have to lose?

Not again. Where's he going to go now?

He's already tarnished his reputation ever since leaving Golden State.

He's just going to wander around the league and just find different teams?

He's linking posts about Chad on Instagram. It might be he wants to go back to OKC. I don't know if they'd want him back.

Phoenix calls New Orleans late June after they get swept by the Wolves here. Let's say they get... Let's go worst case scenario. They get swept. Sweept. It's like, Oh, man, Frank Vogel, you're the fall guy. But maybe that's not enough. They're in the room. It's Ishmael, who can't believe that he's traded all of his picks, and he's a second-apron team, and he has two playoff victories in two years to show for it. Ishmael and whoever his inner circle is, they're like, Let's call New Orleans. Griffin answers, and he says- Give me five first. Five first?

I'd want pretty much Everything back that I've given up for some of these other star players. I want five, I want six. For Devin Booker with the years left on his deal, the how young he is- How many years are left, though?

I thought it was getting a little... Are we inching a little closer to the end there? 2026?

Booker is signed through 2028, so there's time.

Oh, yeah, you're right. This was the first year of that new extension.

So we had the new extension through 2028.

When we keep the TikTok video going, we It's a matter of fact that. Yeah, so with that many years on his contract, it's four or five first.

Yeah, I think you need a hell of a lot.

Who has a longer meeting?

I'd be intrigued from the Phoenix side of things of just blowing things up completely, considering if you do suffer a first-round loss, worst-case scenario, sweep, you got to be looking at the drawing board saying, there's literally nothing that we can do. You don't have future assets. You don't have young players to train.

And you're not allowed to sign free agents because you're over the second April.

Yes. And not only that, the swaps that you've already traded, sometimes you've traded the swaps twice, further diminishing the value of your pig swaps. They've tried to get creative with the limited amount of assets they have, but they got nothing to make significant moves. And this is a fundamentally flawed team. The only counter I would have to you there, Bill, is instead of trading Devon Booker at 28 years old, you're probably not trading Bill either. He has a no trade clause, and he doesn't have great value anyway. If you did decide to trade Kevin Durant again, he's the guy that would still have some value. He's still really good. He's still a top 10 to 15 player in the league. Maybe flipping Katie-36 next year. He's old. Maybe flipping him into multiple pieces and picks is something that could be mutually beneficial for your team and the receiving team. To me, I still want to hang on to Booker. He's in the first year of his deal. It's too soon for me to give up on Devin Booker, especially given the fact that you don't own your own picks moving forward. So if you suck or you're stuck in the middle, where are you exactly?

You still want to compete. So I'd still want to hang on to Devin Booker at this point.

What if you traded Booker and Durant? What if you traded Durant to the Warriors? I don't know. This is the stuff. The point is, I was thinking about this stuff during the fourth quarter of that game where I was like, wow, this is now officially like we're in blow it up, Phil, as you would call it.

It is entering that neighborhood because of the fact they have nothing to think it And ultimately, it should be elite.

They're at the stop sign going, Wait, is that a right turn to blow it up, Phil?

If you are Devon Booker, specifically, I think if you're the sons, you want to hang on to these guys. You have nothing else you can do. You want to compete and hope you get lucky. But if you're Devon Booker, Specifically, you're like, I'm 28 years old. I'm an all-NBA caliber player. I'm an all-star. I've been to a finals. I've flourished on the biggest stages. Do I really want to be here? If you're Booker, I think those thoughts begin entering your mind this summer, because why would they not? It's only natural when you're a competitor like that, when you have his mindset. So I think for Booker, he should be thinking about it, but I think it's too soon. It's one year too soon. But one year from now, I think it's very reasonable for something that big and that massive, a blow it up situation to occur for the Suns. But we're nearing the point that they should think about it.

I'm glad we talked it out. It would be interesting if they did a Booker trade and a Durant trade and just said, F We won two playoff games with these guys in two years. It didn't work. We're moving on. It's depressing. Let's get our pics back.

Think about the good vibes of this team just a couple of years ago. Mikhel Bridges, Kam Johnson, up and coming team.

So if they're not Bright Future Suns, what are they?

The Bleak Future Suns, the- The sad, sad, sad, sad, sad sons. We just pulled out a thesaurus and pull out a whole bunch of words here for Phoenix. I feel bad for Suns fans Because things were so bad for a while, and then they got really good and really optimistic, and they got good fast. And now you're in this position. It's awful. It really is awful because it feels like if you're ranking teams with the bleakest futures, they're in the top five, right? Who else is there? The Bulls?. It's bad teams.

I'm not ready to say that until we see how this round one plays out, because there's a chance they go to Phoenix and they play awesome and we're like, Oh, the Suns. Here we go. Sure. But it was the first time I started really thinking like, holy shit. This could get bad. What if Booker just says, get me the fuck out of here?

But to your point, if they get swept or lose them five, within that context, it's To put a bow in this, I don't think they would trade Devon Booker unless he was like, I'm unhappy.

I'd like to be traded. I agree. And then even then, I don't know if they would trade him. I think the Knicks would be a possibility for that. The Knicks have still held all their stuff for some mega deal. Miami would be a possibility, so on and so on. Durant, that one gets tougher. If you start thinking about they get swept, this gets ugly, where does Durant go? And all roads maybe lead back to the old state. Who knows? Well, maybe they'll win game three, and this will sound like a dumb conversation.

Katie, only next year are left on his contract as well. Just one year left on his.

Who would have thought Kyrie would be in a better spot than Kevin Durant? What were the odds of that a year ago? I don't know.

Things seem really good with Kyrie right now.

This was the crazy ownership series, by the way. There was all that stuff about the Minnesota non-sale today. Joe Pompuliano wrote a really good piece about it. So you have that, and then you have Fishby on the other end, who's like new owner syndrome personified. They're battling for the weird ownership All right, we're going to take a break, and then I want to talk about yesterday's games and a couple of things going forward. All right, so you did a podcast with Vernon about last night, which was the Monday night games, Knicks, Sixers, Nuggets, Lakers, two of the great back to backers that we've had, especially in round one. Happiest Knicks playoff win since the LJ four pointer. And Embiid is becoming a tragic figure are my two takeaways from that game. It's been so... And you could feel it the whole day to day with all the tweet videos and Instagram clips and all the different things, just the fan reactions, the shots of Monica McNut and her partner doing the radio where they just had the camera on them as they're watching all of it. That was awesome. Mike Breen gave it a double bang, which I was like, wow, he double banged it.

This is the rarest of rare. And then the NBA Today put out a video that he's only done six double banks. Wow. This is the six double bang ever. Yeah, they ran all of them. So it was the six double bang ever. And there was pure joy in the garden. And if you're a Knicks fan, I mean, really, the issue was Larry David, because the entire time Larry David had curvy enthusiasm, the Knicks had no happiness whatsoever. He sucked the happiness out of the Knicks, ends the show, Good times for the Knicks again. That's my working theory. He started the show in 2000. That was when it started to turn. Ends the show. Now it's, oh my God, it's the DiFranccianzo game.

Sucks for us. I It's on its curb already.

I know. But this is a good outcome, at least that the Knicks are- It's good for Larry. Fun again. But it was such a joyous game. So what stuck out more for you? Joyous Knicks or whatever is going on with this Philly situation?

I mean, joy as Nicks stuck out more. It was just an unbelievable environment. It was just beautiful to watch fans be that happy. And the players, like we said earlier, play with that amount of heart and effort at the end of the game, heart playing every second in the game. It's nice to see that. But The Curse, Sixers, is one of the thoughts on my mind. And with Joel Embiid, it's sad at this point. I mean, I think you can point blame in him if you want to, but this is his 10th postseason loss in which he had a positive plus minus, but his team lost. That happened in two game sevens for the Sixers as well. So it's like Embiid is... He's limited, but he's out there. He's still making a positive impact. He's a plus in game one. He's a plus in game two with him on the floor. He changes things when he's out there compared to Paul Reid and his backups. And yet the team is still just suffering these heartbreaking defeats over and over and over and over again. And he can't even blink out of one eye on top of a knee injury.

And they blew a really great Maxi game. Maxi was out. Maxi really took to the... I mean, he completely outplayed Brunson, who a lot of people had top five MVP, including me. Brunson looked pretty mortal. They were doing all kinds of things to mess him up. All of it was working. And the Knicks just basically tried harder and got a lot of second-chance points and just stole the game, which is when you know you have a good team, when you could steal a game like that, that you have no business winning. It wasn't lucky. It was grit.

Do you buy and beat the game? Him saying, We're going to win the series. Do you think the Sixers have that amount of belief going home where fans are going to be- I think that's insane. I think it's nuts, too. If you're going home to certain crowds, I think you might say, Oh, yeah, the role players will be better. But Buddy Healed looked frightened in that game. Guys just were not putting an effort in the final.

Buddy Healed stock is going for pennies right now. God. And Tobias. What the hell? I like Tobias. I'm out of excuses for Tobias at this point because last year was like, Oh, man, Harden and Embiid dominate the ball. What's your excuse this year? You barely do anything. And what your team really needs in this series is rebounding. So go down and get some rebounds. But it's a tough one because because the beat is going to be 31 next year. This was a real chance to at least get to the Eastern Finals, the way this lined up with Giannis getting hurt. The Knicks just stole a game from them that they had no business winning. But if you've watched the Knicks all year, it wasn't that surprising. It's a bad matchup where you have on the one hand, you have this team that's a little slow, a little banged up, and then you have this Knicks team that's just relentless. That was one of the reasons I love the Knicks in this series because I was like, A non-healthy Embiid, I just think the Knicks are... They're like a pack of pitfalls. You can't fight them off.

Josh Hart played 48 minutes yesterday and was playing harder than everybody in the last five minutes of the game. I just think they're at a different level competitively. I thought Embiid was crazy to say that because if they lose game three, that looks super stupid. And I don't know what the point of that is either. It's not like it gives anyone confidence. They've shown nothing in those first two games that could make you think they're going to win the four or the next five. Do you agree with my theory against... I said to Rosillo on Sunday night, I think sometimes you can win a series in game one Because I felt that way with Boston and Brooklyn two years ago. It was that game one was such a big win and such a huge game for them to pull that out. I was like, They're going to win the series now. And that's how I felt about the Knicks. And I don't think Embiid sees that yet.

I don't think it's necessarily true with the Sixers Knicks series because they had game two. I mean, they were up. Right.

They had it.

They had it. It was in their hands, and they just let it slip. And then it would have been one to one going back to Philly, and who But I do think it can happen. And this is an example where they lost the series in game two, because I see no chance of them fighting back. You are demoralized. That's one of the worst losses of many terrible losses the Sixers have suffered over the last six, seven, eight years. So I think for Philadelphia, it's like we talked about in regards to Phoenix, with going back to the drawing board, the one difference for the Philly side of things, if you assume worst case, you lose them four or five on the Philly side of things, the The difference between them and Phoenix is the fact that they have all the cap space in the world this offseason.

They do have flexibility. And they have excuses. They have like, Hey, man, Embiid was hurt. He'll be healthy next year. Phoenix has no excuse.

He can't blink one of his eyes. He's coming off a surgery to his knee late in the year. So there's legitimate excuses.

It's four knee surgery.

And you feel good about the fact that Maxi is looking legit. Maxi is the one silver lining for the Sixers side of things here. He looks awesome. And so I think for Philadelphia, you go into the offseason still feeling like, Okay, this season just didn't go our way, but how can we build positively from this? At the same time, the questions about Embiid's health are not going to go away, which is why I think it was... I think the conversation is about whether to bring him back or not. I know you thought maybe you don't bring him back, considering his injury risk. But to me, you had to bring him back if there was a chance of bringing him back, because there's no guarantee he'll be even healthier next year. He may never be healthier again entering the postseason again when he's on the wrong side of 30. This could have been the last chance. We don't know that. I hope it's not within B, but it could be.

If you were the Philly GM, would you trade him or keep him?

You keep Joel and Pia. Okay. Do you think about trading in B? At least- I don't know how this gets- You might not talk to an assistant, but you think about it in the back of your own mind. You might not bring it up to anybody.

I don't know how it gets better. I don't know how the injuries get better. I was like, Oh, man, I'm so healthy now. Like, big guys, they get bigger every year. And once they pass, they're like heavyweights. Once they pass a certain weight point, they don't really lose the weight. So now he's carrying around a way bigger load than he's ever had before. But he's also had this is surgially repaired. That was surgially repaired. Oh, he had to have that fixed. Oh, he has two broken orbital bones. And It's just... I said to Roussel on Sunday, it's like what happened to Blake Griffin, where sometimes you could just have too many injuries.

It's possible it goes that way at the same time. The Sixers are probably at least tied in the series or maybe up in the series if they have, A, someone far more competent than Tobias Harris and be a better backup center than Paul Reid or Mo Bamba or any of the options that they have behind a beat on the bench. They're missing two things, really. They have a lot else on this team. Kyle Lauer has been good for them as a rotation point guard since they got a mid-year. Nick Batum has been really good overall as well. Ubre has been good. They have good role players. It's upgrading on Harris and upgrading the backup center. Those are the keys for the Sixers to at least give this a greater chance moving forward.

You think they regret not doing a Tobias Harris-Bradley Beal something last summer?

I think with Maxie's development, no. Maxie has gotten so much better. It just would have been too much overlap in terms of skillset.

Nuggets Lakers. Jokuj had a 20-2010, which has happened eight times in the history of the NBA in the playoffs. He has four of the eight.

What a monster.

His last 37 playoff games, a legitimate 30, 13, and 8 dating back to the start of the '21 playoffs. Wow. Every time I think I've peaked in how much I love Jokuj, he does shit like he did the last night. The thing that my takeaway from that game, which was just awesome, and I thought the Lakers played really well. It was weird to hear them blame the refs because I thought they took a bunch of haymakers. They were going against a team that in the third quarter decided, We're winning this game, even though we're down 20. We've done this before. We're taking this game. And the Lakers kept hitting shots and kept fighting them off and kept fighting them off. And ultimately, LeBron Gack, the one with 17 seconds left. He had a wide open three. And if he makes it, they're up three with 17 seconds left. He missed it. He'd been making it the whole game. But if he makes the shot, they probably win the game. So it was weird to hear them talk about the refs. But LeBron was, I thought, incredible in the second half. It was crazy to watch.

Denver just kept taking it, taking it, taking it. It was that same inevitability that we talk about with them, that we used to talk about the Chiefs, too. I was trying to think, they're down 19 in that game, and I'm like, they're going to come back. I'm trying to think how many other teams this century I felt that way about. It's really only the 17 Warriors and the 0-1 Lakers, and that's it. Are the only two teams where I would have felt like coming back. And that's it. And that's this century. And now we are one quarter of the way through the century. I wouldn't even said that about the Miami Heat, the early 2010s. I really think that's the list because when they want to, they score every time they have the ball.

Are they one of the greatest... Where do they rank as one of the greatest clutch teams in league history? Are they the greatest?

I think when you're talking offenses, that's the list since Jordan retired. And if they If they go back to back, and they've lost four times in the playoffs this year and last year. That's not nothing. But I think if they go back to back and they keep winning games like that with how good and competitive the league is this year, it vaults them a whole other level because you're also talking about Jokuj now who has a chance to be, I think, a legitimate chance to be one of the 10 best players ever. Russell and I talked about this Sunday. I think he's hitting all the check marks now that we will be talking about him with Bird and Magic and Duncan and Kobe and all these guys. I think he's on his way, but they need the title this year.

It'll be some crazy conversations very soon if they go back to back. There's just an inevitability with him in these games where, like you said, the Chiefs, where there's a belief in Mahomes that he's going to pull it out. We had it with braided.

Yes, exactly. We had it. We know what it feels like.

Had it with down 28 to three where it's like, okay, there's a... Clinton was a little Give her a chance. You're down 20 points in the second half with Jokuj, you're like, We're in this game. We got a shot. This is manageable. I think with Jokuj, he has reached incredible individual heights. He was taking it to Davis.

Oh, my God. It wasn't like he had Joel Prisbell in front of him. He's just backing down Davis and triple drop-stepping him and doing all kinds of shit.

It was fucking crazy. It's as amazing as Anthony Davis was in the game, he was making things harder on Jokić. He was fighting hard defensively. He was even better offensively. He wasn't missing at all in the first three quarters of the game. He was amazing. As amazing as he was, Jokuj was significantly better. Somehow, some way. And I think when I was watching that game last night, when in the middle of the third quarter, they're down 17 points, and Michael Malone changed up the Nuggets defense, they went with Jokić on Rui, Gordon on AD, and K CP on LeBron James. I was like, I wonder if this is where the game shifts. We'll see what happens if this works out. And it did. That is where things shift. It just felt like the entire Lakers offense got discombobulated.

You know what else happened? That was when Darvin Ham went into a coma.

Yeah, he just stopped doing anything.

Just take out Rui and put in Prince. How fucking hard is this? I'm on my couch. I don't even like the Lakers. Why is Rui still playing? They just eliminated him from the game, and you still have him out there.

He had a terrible game. I felt like also the one other thing when I was rewatching the game earlier today, it almost didn't occur to me watching live last night, but I tracked the pick and rolls run. Lebron ran zero pick and rolls ball screens in the first half. He ran 12 in the second half. Dilo ran 10 in the first half and only 6 in the second half. While rewatching the game, Dilo just vanished in the second half.

Don't you think part of their strategy was let's save LeBron's legs until the second half?

Yes, and that was part of it. It's like the opposite of what you said on the pod on Sunday night, where you're like, he had a great first six innings, and then he fizzled. It was the opposite, where they just let him roll on defense. He was amazing on defense in that entire game. And then they saved his legs for the second half, and he was great. But Dilo did disappear. The Dilo AD pick and roll was part of the reason why AD had such a big game, getting him shots, rolling to the basket. At the short roll. Ad was feasting on that with Dilo, and Dilo himself was, too. But they went away from that. And that speaks to, I think, when it comes to that defense the Nuggets went to, the lack of adjustments from him. I think maybe at some point, maybe you do force things back to Dilo a bit more. Try to find situations to get Dilo and AD together.

Prince over Rui is the other one.

For sure. Granted, Prince has had his issues this year. He would have been better than Rui in that game.

He'll make a crazy 24-footer out of nowhere. The altitude, I think, is the other thing with these games. When your lead is slipping away and you could see all those guys were starting to get tired. Jokuj, who doesn't seem like he's in the best shape of anyone in the game, but he really is. The guy just never stops moving, never gets tired, always plays at the same speed. He's relentless. It's a really special team. It really is. I enjoy watching them as much as any non-Seltings team that I can remember. It's like real greatness. It really reminds me of those... I hated the Lakers, but I really liked watching the '01 Lakers. I felt like they were special. And the same thing with the 17 Warriors. We're like, This is just special. The Miami during the 33-game win streak was the other one like that. That wasn't in the playoffs, not 33, 27. But when they had that long win streak, it was like, This is special. These guys have something magical together. I really feel like they have it, and I think it's going to be just shocking if anyone beats them in the West.

I agree. Whether the Celtics can beat them, we'll see. They have the best chance, but man, this is going to be such a tough team to beat.

Denver, it's all rooted in Jokuj. Again, it's rooted in the Mahomes, the braided, the belief factor, right? Even the last possession of the game, the game winner by Murray, Jokuj orchestrated that entire thing. The ball's inbounded, and Jokuj is like, give it to Murray. He goes up the floor. He's pointing to his teammates to clear out the entire right side for Murray. He tells KCP they're going to run a double screen for Murray. And it's like he's doing everything on the court without even touching the ball. And I think him empowering Murray in a moment like that and down the stretch, even though Murray didn't have a great game individually, really, until the end, it's that belief factor with Jokić that helps your team as a whole, like with Mahomes, like with Bridget, where it's like, We have a chance with this guy to bring us back. And then he empowers everybody in turn as a leader. He is truly, truly a special talent. And the ways in which he's improved in little ways. He was once a guy who would have nights where he had zero points or four shots. And he wouldn't be looking for a shot.

And he realized, Oh, me being selfless isn't not shooting. I need to score for my team to win. Improving as a defender. He is honestly one of my favorite players I've ever watched in my entire lifetime. He is truly, truly special. And I'm thankful to watch Jokuj. I know it's cheesy to say, but it's true. He is that special as a player.

I'm trying to think of my favorite non-Seltics were, and it's probably him and Magic and Curry are probably my favorite three.

Selfless players, all three of them.

That's what they have in common, right? Yeah, because that's my favorite thing. Tomorrow, we have heat Celtics. The Celtics would have been asleep in this game, but the Caleb Martin thing, which everybody's been talking about for three days, now the crowd's going to be all drunk and fired up. Big mistake by Miami. And then Pelican Thunder, which is I have a season pass for that one. I'm watching every minute of that series. It's a great matchup. My guy Trey Murphy, who you don't think is nearly enough to be the centerpiece of a Devin Booker trade.

I love Trey Murphy, just not for Devin Booker.

I just said he was the centerpiece. I got to check. I have some Trey Murphy fans in my life. I'll be interested to see what they feel like. I feel like he might be untradable for them. If you're asked the Pelicans going backwards, who are your most untradable guys? It's probably him first, Herb second, and Zion third. Oh, wow.

Ahead of Zion.

Yeah, because Zion, he hasn't finished the season. And he's expensive. I don't know. I'm just talking about trade assets.

Yeah, fair, but he's still Zion, and you still need Zion to win a title. You still need a star. And I love Trey Murphy. Don't get me wrong. I love Trey Murphy. I've loved him since pre-draft. The dude's awesome. To see him blossom the way he is is really cool. But I think he's probably third. It's one Zion, two Herb Jones, best perimeter defender in all of basketball.

I have Zion third.

Then Trey third, in my opinion.

I have Zion third. I think he would be a little harder to trade than people think because of the salary and the health.

This speaks to the decline of Ingram, though. The fact we have not even uttered his name as the most valuable person.

I don't think he's going to be on their team next year.

Oh, I don't think so either. I'd be surprised. To me, he's the guy you trade, and it'd probably be mutually beneficial for him, too, to have a new situation.

Because they need to start playing my guy Trey Murphy more. Before we go, who do you want the paths to take at number three? Or do you want them to trade down?

Do not trade down. I'd be furious. I leaned towards Drake May, but I admittedly haven't done a deep dive in the ways that I have in the past year since I'm so focused on NBA and NBA draft right now. But Drake May is the guy in my time watching videos, reading the Ringer's NFL draft guide that stands out the most to me with that third pick right now.

Have you ever been more scared of the Pats since you've been alive? In terms of who's running them and what the possibilities are? Like your whole life, there's been stability and Tom braided. And now we have the owner and his son basically running this draft being like, Hey, number three is available if you want to make an offer.

It's funny. My mom, she asked me the other day. She's like, Hey, would your dad be excited about the Patriots and Celtics right now? I was like, he'd be very excited I'm not going to say about the Celtics, but not the Patriots. He'd be terrified right now. And I explained why with everything going on as you just did. And I think with them, it's interesting because it reminds me a little bit of when I first was watching football in the late '90s, when people called them the Patsies. Are we entering a Patsies era again?

Oh, man. Well, if we are, we had a great run. It's hard to complain. We did.

Enough to last a lifetime, more than I ever could have asked for as a Patriots fan. But it does feel like right now you're banking on them sustaining their very good defense from last year. Who knows under all the changes. Defense is good. Defense is good.

I'd like to get a quarterback and a left tackle and a wide receiver, and I feel like we'll be all right.

It's a lot to ask for, though, unfortunately. Are you with Drake May, too? What would Solak say on first part of the pod?

I am all in on Drake May. Solak is also in on Drake May.

So we're all on Drake May.

I don't think we're all in, but I think most of us are in.

I also like Mac Jones, though, unfortunately. That's the thing. That was very underwhelming. It's hard with quarterbacks, man. It's so tough.

It's not like NBA where there's certain guys where that guy's definitely going to be a good pro. There's no doubt. Quarterbacks, Even if you feel great, it's still like 75, 25, 80, 20. It's almost like big men. It's like you just don't 100% know. To me, James Wiseman is the classic top five pick. It's like, James Wiseman, such great size and athleticism. And then you watch him and you're like, Oh, he doesn't have it. Okay. That's basically like Sam Darnold.

Is there any logic to not picking a quarterback, going with Harrison, who you feel is like a certainty. No.

The only logic is trading back.

Okay.

Yeah. If you're going to not take a quarterback, you have to trade back.

Because there's enough good receivers in this year's draft class where you trade down.

Pick up a bunch of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Get for a year and then figure it out a year from now. But You only can do that if you don't like the quarterbacks.

Is there a sleeper quarterback in this year's class that people are like, Hey, he could be the guy that ends up better than the top quarterbacks, better than Caleb Williams?

No, I don't think anyone feels that about Caleb Williams, but I think there's some Penix believers. It's a little Brandon Morayish where his knees are really bad and people don't think he's going to be around maybe for 15 years, but there's talent, so who knows? All right, we got to go. You can listen to KFC in the Mismatch. You can watch him on Through the Ringer with Tate Frazier. When do you go on that show on Fandil TV?

That's changed.

What's the new schedule?

With the Mismatch playoff scheduling, now I will not be doing Through the Ringer every week, it'll be irregular with Tate.

Oh, I like him and Tate. I know. I got to talk to the guy in charge and see if he can fix that.

They couldn't shift certain schedules, but hopefully that can do because I like doing it with Tate every week, too. But right now, Tuesdays and Fridays with the mismatch, Wednesdays with the Ringer NBA draft show, that's back. So we'd be doing that every week through the draft. Granted, this year is not as interesting with Noem Benyama, but that's something that's going to be a fun draft, an interesting draft, like with no certainty up top. That makes it exciting in a lot of different ways.

Great sell, but it's a bad draft.

It's a role player draft, Phil.

It's a role player draft. We went from Wembe Yamma, who's the most unbelievable thing that's ever happened. Let's do a bunch of roll, guys.

Find your next Contabius Caldwell Pope in the 2024 NBA draft.

I need a stretch shooter. K. O. C, good to see you.

Good to see you, too, Phil. Thank you.

That's it for the pod. Thanks to Kyle Creighton for producing. Thanks to Steve Serruti as well. Don't forget to check out youtube. Com/bilsimmons if you want to watch videos of clips from this. And I will see you on Thursday. Must be 21 plus, 18 plus DC, and present in select states. Fandil offering online sports wager in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino, LLC. Gamble problem? Call 1-800-Gambler or visit fandle. Com/rg. In Colorado, DC, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, and Vermont. Call 1-800 next step or text next step to 53342 in Arizona, 888-789-7777. Com. Or visit ccpg. Org/chat-in-connect. 800 on within Indiana, 800-522-4700, or visit ksgamblinghelp. Com in Kansas, 877-770. Stop in Louisiana. Md-gamblinghelp. Org in Maryland. 800-gambler. Net in West Virginia. 800-522-4700 in Wyoming. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline ma. Org or call 800-327-5050 for 24/7 support in Massachusetts. Or call 1-877-8 Hope-N-Y or text Hope-N-Y in New.