Coming up, it's an old football podcast. Nfl? College football? Yeah. We're going to talk about that too next. We're also brought to you by The Ringer Podcast Network. I have a new Rewatchables coming for you on Monday night. We did a movie that was trending as a top five movie on Netflix in the last four weeks. That's my hint for you. We also, we're going to be announcing a week from tomorrow, we're going to be announcing the dates for the cities, and the movies for the Rewatchables East Coast tour, which is going to be Washed in Chicago, Philly, and New York. Stay tuned for all the details one week from tonight. I am going to be doing a live show with Rosilloow in Las Vegas on Wednesday night at the in-season tournament the day before. We're going to be doing a Jimmy Kimmel's Comedy Club, and it is sold out. So you can't go. Sorry, I only had so many seats. But it's going to be me and Rosello and a special guest. We're also going to have K-O-C and Verno and Logan and Raja are going to be in front of us. It's going to be two-plus hours of basketball talk.

Looking forward to that. Looking forward to seeing everybody in Vegas. Coming up on this podcast, Cousins and Sal and I are going to be talking about week 13, NFL, which was as goofy as ever. Then a rare second guest on The Sunday Show, but so much happened in college football that we brought Van Laythenon to talk about what happened with the football championship and the four teams and the teams that got left out and what's going on with Deion Sanders and who his favorite quarterback is. I have a vested interest in that question. Now that the Pats seem like they have a top two pick locked up. We're going to talk about that with Sal and the second-first our friends from Pearl Jet. All right, taping this little after 8:30 Sunday night, cousin Sal is here. Just watched the Packers beat the Chiefs. The Packers look like they're a playoff team. I don't know what the Chiefs look like, but I'll tell you this Sal. The chiefs are a four-seed right now.

Yeah, I noticed that. I noticed that. So what does that mean? You don't get a buy for a four-seed, right?

You definitely don't get a buy.

Right until the end of January? Right now.

The big winner today was Baltimore and Miami, who now feel like they have a legitimate chance in the one seat. I guess the good news if you're the chiefs is it is just a quagmire for the five, six, seven spots in the AFC. I don't know if I like a single team that's available, but we'll talk about that in a second. What was your take on Chiefs-Packers? Did you feel like the Packers looked like a playoff team? Because I had the Chiefs in a couple of money parlays. I was afraid of the Packers appropriately, but just felt like Chiefs, Sunday Night, Lambo, NBA, Shilke Patti made the case of my plot on Thursday. It's like, this is what they do. This is around the time they get going and they never really got going. The Packers are great. Chiefs had some injuries on defense, which I think hurt them. But I thought the Packers, they deserve to win the game. Even bogus PI at the end of the game aside, I thought the Packers played better.

Yeah, I have the same take. We can move on to a game where I didn't lose.

Okay, good. I hate getting you somber after your bets.

Get destroyed. I'm going to come back. I had a lot riding on that same game, Pauley, but no, great for the Packers. Jordan Love, officially, if he hadn't before, moved out of the bad quarterback category, he's now put together four good games. Not only that, he resembles Aaron Rogers. It's got to drive Aaron Rogers nuts. That game was a nephew to Aaron Rogers and Taylor Swift, but especially Aaron Rogers, because do you watch him? You don't want to compare him to Aaron Rogers, but if you watched the guy play for three years or whatever it was, you pick up his mannerisms and everything he does resembles Rogers, like just retreating and throwing off his back foot and everything. I'm like, Oh, my God, that works. And somehow these receivers are getting separation, which they didn't. You talked about Christian Watson.

Who.

Unfortunately went down at the end doing a smart thing. I hate to see that, like a selfless thing, like trying to stay in bounds. And I don't know what he did with his leg there. But you dropped him what? Like a month ago? And he was in the.

Team for all your fantasy teams? Way sooner than that. I think it was three weeks ago I dropped him on every team.

It's a stud now.

And then he looked like a stud again. I forgot that he did this last year. He did get hurt at the end. They have.

Guys that I hadn't heard of. They have guys that I hadn't heard of. Right? Don'tavian Wicks and Tucker Kraft, like a Mylik Eth getting separation. So this is a different team than we saw six weeks ago, for sure.

Yeah, and Luke Musgrave is still an IR, too. If they had him, you just feel like... It feels like they could move the ball. There was a lot of times today where it was like second and 10, third and 12, second and 15, and it felt like they could get 10 yards basically whenever they wanted. I was impressed. You look at the NFC big picture like, Who do you like? After Philly, Detroit, San Francisco, somebody's getting in from the NFC and your team is getting in. So there's five teams. Then after that, it's Green Bay 6 and 6, Minnesota 6 and 6, Seattle 6 and 6, Ram 6 and 6. It feels like they're peaking probably better than those other teams. I mean, the Rams had a nice win today, but it feels like they're held together by Scotch tape. But they started with the Lions a week ago when they beat them on Thanksgiving, and I felt like they kept the momentum. I didn't think they were going to be able to do it.

Yeah, I agree. I'm a little hesitant because a few weeks ago I was like, Wow, look at this Vikings team. They could really make some noise in the playoffs. Now I'm not sure I believe after that Monday night game and just looking lethargic the last couple of weeks, I'm not sure that's the case.

But yeah, I don't know. They got it all. And Dobbs crashed back to Earth a little bit too. Right.

Yep. Go ahead, sir.

Well, the other thing the Packers have going for them is just to schedule the rest of the way. This was their, quote-unquote, Gauntlet, Detroit and KC. Now they have the giants. They have Tampa at home, Carolina, Minnesota on the road, and then Chicago at home. They literally could run the slate. They could end up being 11 and 6. This was a big argument with us before the season. And we might have both been right because you like the Vikings, I like the Packers. Neither of us like the Lions that much. But now both of them might... We might have three NFC North playoff teams.

Well, as long as we don't have... We'll talk about three AFC South playoff teams, which is looking like it might happen. Oh, my God. But yeah, the Vikings, they play again like New Year's Eve, but the Vikings won that first one. Yeah, I wouldn't mind seeing this Packers team in the playoffs at this point. They're not bad. I don't know if the lasting power against the 49ers seem to run away with it. I know we're going to talk about it, but I don't see any other team in the NFC right now.

Well, let's do it. Did Taylor Swift ruin the Chiefs? Let's go. Are you.

Kidding me? Nathan's never going to talk to you again.

That's a theme tomorrow. What show is going to do it? If you had to bet, Undisputed? Well, one of the Fox or ESPN shows is doing it. Somebody on First Aid will do it. Taylor Swift would have been there. Would have Kelsie have caught that a year ago before he started dating her. She's flying around too much. Right. It's sitting there for somebody. It's a good take.

I love it. Pretty solid. I love it. Yeah, I don't know. This Chief's team, they lose games like this for us every year, right? I feel like we're waiting on them to close out a teaser and it doesn't happen. But my homes back to them, their receivers are junk. They do dumb things. They take dumb penalties. Cedarius, Tony, I'm not sure he even knows how to play the game, really. And I just feel bad for my homes. Even the interception, he stopped running the route. He just did. So it was a great play, but my homes have got to be fed up.

I had a moment. You'll love this because we've been here many times where I did well today, gambling in real life, and then had the Chiefs tied to a couple of things. And it was the difference between, all right, I could just take the Packers plus 6, try the middle. But even if they all cancel out, I have a good day. And I'm just staring at it and I'm staring at him. I'm like, what am I doing? I'm not doing it. Because they look good against the lions who almost lost to the saints. A week ago, I'm going to go against my homes on a Sunday night. And then, Collinsworth's going to be doing a Santa Claus. Ho, ho, ho, laughing every time the Holmes does something great. And I'm just like, I'm not doing it. I'm just riding the Chiefs. They'll win, they'll figure it out. And when you actually just sit there and watch them, you're reminded over and over again. It's like they just don't have the same weapons this year. What was I thinking? I'm judging them based on the 22 Chiefs and the 18 Chiefs. And it's like those guys are gone.

It's Valdez Scantling just getting mauled on a PI. And the refs respect him so little they don't even throw a flag. That's a PI a hundred times out of a hundred when we're watching football all day. And with him, it's like, he sucks. We're not going to give him the flag. I don't know what they do.

Yeah, the the out-of-bounds hit was terrible too. So I like, all right, maybe one makes up for the other. But it doesn't really even help because that play happens at the 25. He's not throwing Hall of Marys the rest of the way. But yeah, Pacheco runs hard. My homes is going to make two or three dazzling plays. But other than that, that offense is not the same. Travis, Kelsie, I'm not sure if Taylor ruined them, but definitely not the same. I don't know what we're going to do with the Chiefs the rest of the way.

And some bad injuries in their back six, basically, that I think the Packers were able to exploit. Well, it's more fun when the Packers are good. I think this is fun. Whether they can get... So right now, I guess they could get to the sixth seed.

Yeah, they lose the tie breaker against Minnesota right now. They have the tie breaker over the rams. It's complicated. It's still five games.

You want to play if it's a choice between Philly, San Francisco, Detroit for the top three seeds, you want the Lions. So it's almost like we could see a little week 18 jock in and see how that goes. The Niners are the team you don't want. They absolutely annihilated the Eagles. They don't do anything on their first two drives, and then they score on six straight touchdown drives. Purdy, 19 for 27 for 3, 14, four touchdowns. For his career now, he's 17 and four. He's 36 touchdowns and 10 interceptions and is now a legitimate MVP candidate, I think. I think your guy after Thursday night, he's in there. I think Purdy is in there. Hertz is still lingering. And who else? Tyreke- Well, I guess.

I guess, Tyreke, although I looked at his numbers like two hours ago and it was like 20 to one. So they're just like steadfast on this. No, wide receivers never get the support thing. But yeah, listen, I was the only idiot in the country. I talked about a ring of wise guys. I wasn't buying into this 40-90 thing. This line was five points off from when you and I guessed at Sunday night. It was six points off from the look ahead line in August. I'm like, What's happened since? The Eagles have won loss. We keep waiting for them to let down. They didn't do it after the Washington games, which were close. They didn't do it after the Cowboys. They didn't do it after the Chiefs. I'm like, I'm not buying it, but everybody else did. And I'm glad you did. I feel foolish now because the 49ers are just so much just a solid. They just bully you at the line of Scrimage. And I think they average eight yards of play on offense, which the first down is only 10 yards. So that's pretty good, eight.

Twenty-four first downs, 456 yards, eight yards of play, no turnovers. I had them. I really liked them this week. It was one of those games where it's like they're such aa ponderance of stats that favor the Niners in this matchup. And even we had John Ewing look up how many times a 10:1 or better team was a home underdog. It was three times they had lost twice. And it was basically the only reason you were going with Philby is all the old school junk stuff. Nobody believes in us. Sirian is going to put on the chalkboard that they're underdogs, the home team, home crowd. And none of it mattered because they just ran up and down. And all the weaknesses that the Eagles that we've seen all year with the linebackers, their inability to chase down tight ends and running backs in the flats, and it all blew up. But the big thing was, could Purdy play a game like that in hostile territory when they really needed it? And over and over again, he said, Yes, I can, actually. Yeah. I'm really good at football.

He's good at football. And Debo Samuel, just nobody wanted to tackle him. Nobody. I don't know what he smelled like or what, but nobody wanted anything to do with that guy. Once he got in the open field, it was over. I think the turning point was that Big Dom. What happened with Big Dom and Dre Greenlaw? Big Dom.

You could have make that up. It seems like out of a lost, deleted entourage episode or something. It was like, Oh, Big Dom got involved.

Real quick with the Big Dom thing, I was in the car for 10 minutes. I had to get away for something. I put on the NFL radio or whatever, and I had the Homer, Eagle, and Outsers. The radioannouncers are still the best. I can't get off my... But the radio, the Homer and you can imagine a Homer-Eagle announcement. That is just insane. And he's like, Oh, did Dre Greenlaw just go after Big Dom? My money's on Big Dom. I would not count out Big Dom. I was like, Big Dre Greenlaw? I don't know anything. I can tell you, after seeing the guy, Dre Greenlaw would kill Big Dom. This guy's at 450 pounds. It took him 20 minutes to walk off the field. Big Dom. Big Dom is big. That's it. That's all he is.

And then they're probably blaming Greenlaw. I don't know why he went at Big Dom.

Oh, they did. Yeah.

It was, I think, probably the dumbest call of the year. We've had some really dumb ones all year on both ends. We've seen bad flags. We've seen bad noncalls. But to throw Greenlaw out of that when the Eagle security guard, who shouldn't have been that close to the sidelines, instigates the whole thing. We have video. They can go look at this. It's like the guy shoves him first, which is he's playing a football game. You're not supposed to be shoved by anybody.

The security guard shouldn't be in the white. That's all.

That's all there is to it. And then Big Dom was standing there for five, six minutes. It's embarrassed. And now he's going to be joining the Digenerator. It's now the Quad Fecta. Big Dom is going to be joining full-time, but it gets all odds.

Watch your back and your chins, Harry. Big Dom is coming after you.

They kicked the guy out. That could have been a huge play. I know. The Niners lose their guy because he got goated. So then I was thinking like, all right, we'll tell everybody in the sideline during a big game that's got this much chipping should just tell their random non-coaches like, hey, try to start shit anytime anyone comes close.

To the sideline. I got a standing ovation walking off the field.

Oh, my God. I'm sure he's going to be a hero tomorrow. He'll be mentioned all over the place. It's not enough that he's just Dom either. It's Big Dom.

It's Big Dom.

What are the jobs for somebody named Big Dom? You're like a bancer in a bar. You're like the number two guy in a pizza place.

I was just going to say some idiot is going to fund a restaurant and call it Big Dom. And he's going to.

Name after- Big Doms.

Yeah, they name it after- We'll have a chicken farmer, John Hero, named after him at least tomorrow.

You're definitely a wrestler. Big Dom. He was like an ECW in 1996. He feuded with Mikey Awesome.

And.

Then I would say porn. Oh, yeah. Right? Big Dom. I don't know if it's straight porn or if it's some other version, but it's definitely Big Dom is in the title card. He might even be on the video, because I.

Said- I think it's a football players are haggling with this girl and he shoves him out of the way. And then she falls in love with him. I think that's the backstory to the porn. Yeah, that's what happens.

Or maybe like a nighttime soap opera. Like somebody owes money to Big Dom. Like he's a bookie. Big Dom. I think it's just kidding to be dumb. So for Philly, they have that gauntlet schedule. It starts out with the Monday night KC game. Then they had that brutal OT game last week. They get the really, really physical, violent Niners game this week. And then waiting for them on 10 days rest, your team.

Coming.

Off one of the best wins of the DAC era, right? Top four regular season DAC win? No?

The Seattle one?

The Thursday? Yeah.

He looked good. He was good.

He looked good. He looked like an MVP candidate.

He really did. And I got to tell you, it's clicking. And I talked to my buddy, the Parlay Kid, who is a Cowboys fan. And am I crazy to say that...

Forget about that, Mike McCarthy is like a top seven coach now. I mean, how many years can you be like, Oh, this guy is a laughing stock. And then he just really doesn't screw up for many years now, and he's running the plays. I know I'm jingxing myself right now. I absolutely know it. He's going to call something nonsensical on Sunday night. I'm going to be in tears. But, Pickens are slim, and he might be right up there.

Did you like how they handle the last two minutes?

Now I can't remember. What did they do?

Remember they threw? They stopped the clock? Oh, yeah. I didn't love that. All right. Okay, that wasn't- I didn't love going to the field goal either. All of a sudden, Seattle is at midfield with a chance to win the game. It's like, What's going on? You guys could have just ended it. Yeah, look.

Mccarthy is- Look, you could beat good team. They're a decent team. They might not even make the playoff of Seattle, but the knock is all you do is crush bad teams. We've lost so many games that way. Now that said, you have permission, nephew, Kyle, Sarudy, whoever's doing the Pagas, kill my mic next week if I'm excited at all if the Cowboys are to win because it's not going to matter. I know you're going to go through the schedule. Look at the Eagles' last three. That's all that matters. It's the giants twice in Arizona. Those are two teams that want to lose at that point.

Well, you have Philly home next week at Buffalo at Miami, home Detroit at Washington. And you want to go two and one these next three and hope that the Eagles blow one more of these. But the Eagles haven't looked awesome here for a month.

But look at those last three. They're just going to- I know. They'll get it together.

I know what you're doing.

Kill my mind. Just transparent.

Right now. What night are we the most afraid of during this game? Did you bet on the Eagles or did you stay away completely?

No, I took the Eagles plus seven and a half. I took the cowards way out. So that wasn't good. So who were you most afraid of? What player or.

What team? Yeah, what Niner?

Oh, well, I mean, that one guy can't even take big Dom in a fight, Drake Greenlaw, so not him. No, Debo Samuel, if he's playing like this, right? Yeah. The guy is just... He's unstoppable. I don't know. Do we even call him a running back at this point? It feels like he has that element back to him where he wasn't a running back at all for the first five weeks in the last couple of weeks last year.

I watched football today with Van and my friend Kevin Wilde, who was in town. Oh, and we were talking about who is Debo? We're playing the game of who does this guy remind you from the past? We're talking like, Who does McAfrey remind you of? And we landed on Thurman Thomas, like how he can run the ball. He's shifty in the middle, but you can also throw him and throw little wheel routes with them and stuff. So he's a little Thurman Thomas-y. But Debo, we couldn't think of anybody from the past that reminded us of Debo. He's like a running back at receiver, and I don't even know how to describe them. It's a one-on-one. It's weird.

Like Deion Sanders, but he wasn't as good a receiver when they.

Split up. Oh, that's good. Like if Deion was a better receiver. Yeah, that's good. I like that one.

Yeah, thank you. Call those guys and tell them we figured it out. Yeah.

Well, when Debo plays and Trent Williams plays, this is the best team in the League. So I think the big lesson is something I was banking on heading into the weekend. But I just think Healthy Niners is the class of the week. Can they stay healthy? Can they figure it out? We'll see. We're going to take a break and come back, talk to the rest. All right, so I got a great topic for you.

Go ahead.

Did Gairdner Minshu single-handly save the backup quarterback position. This position that we grew up with where there were just some teams like Don Stroke coming to a game. I was like, Oh, Don Stroke is pretty good. He could start for half the teams in the League. Frank Reik was like that. Fitzpatrick was borderline like that, I guess, in the previous decade. But for the most part, Haas Stetler came in that year when Phil Sims got hurt. The Eagles? Yeah. Nick Falls with Wents. So we've seen guys come in for one-season things. But the whole concept of a backup QB who if he gets the car keys can actually be a winning QB in a League where what, 40 % of the quarterbacks are terrible? It seems impossible that we would have a good backup to be. Min Hsu, that was his 20th career win today. It was a come from behind. He made a couple of awesome throws. He's seven and three as the starter this year. And it's quietly the story of the year. They're seven and five. They have a chance to be like the number one wildcard in the AFC. And this is a team that they take Richardson fourth.

They lose him within two weeks and their season should be over. They got a new coach. And Shane Styke, I think, is in the coach that you're running too. I would say he's probably the favorite. But this Minchie thing is incredible and nobody cares.

Well, yeah, this team was left for dead, certainly by me. No ART, no Andy Richardson, no Jonathan Taylor. That whole contract thing was screwed up with Irseye. You're like, Oh, my God. This team, just they don't care about winning a single game. And I think you're right. There have been quarterbacks in the pet. Cooper Rush, I'll bring up mine, was four and one last year. Helped the Cowboys get that coveted wildcard spot. But yeah, he looks great. We've seen these quarterbacks. I think he's top. What would you even say? Forget about saving the backups. I think he's like a top 12 quarterback at this point.

Yeah, I made the list here. I think he's in the top half. If you're splitting the halfs, he's in that 14-16 range because over and over again, he can move the ball. And it's like when the Pats played them in Germany and the Pats, the defense really shut them down. The Colts barely won anyway, but it felt like, Oh, here we go, Minsu. Now the worm is going to start to turn on him. But it definitely didn't.

They did get lucky, though. We have to admit. It went two block puns in a row. How does that happen?

Well, on both of them, it looked like the Titan's punner. His leg was going to be broken, the Alex Smith style.

I asked people to name what a back-to-back block pun would be. People said double blunt, double-stuff, like the Oreals, Twont, sounds dirtier than it is. Block-to-block. Twont? Twont, TWnt, I don't know. Starring Big Dom? There's another one, Big Dom. It could be a Music City Mufffest or the reblockables. The Reblockables. The Reblockables? You're not going to see that a lot.

I like the reblockables. So a couple of other backup QBs. Matt Moore was frisky there for a while, remember? Yeah. He had a couple of moments where he was like, should I bet on this guy? I like Matt Moore. And then Castle the year, braided went down and the Pats went 11 and five with Castle and he ends up getting like a $40 million contract out of it. Indy scheduled the rest of the way is nuts. They have Cincinnati at Cincinnati next week with Jake Browning. Their home for Pittsburgh, probably, Trabiski. Atlanta in Atlanta, a team that couldn't even get to 200 total yards today against the jets. Las Vegas, Aden O'Connor. And then last week of the season, Houston, potentially for a playoff spot. And that's at Houston.

Yeah. I don't know why. I just don't want to see them. I know if the alternative is Pittsburgh, okay, fine. But the shaky bull, Colt's and Jags, you're excited about that at all? That's like a 2-7?

I'm not. Unless there's Jimer, say, wandering onto the field like Shooter and Hoosiers.

Oh, yeah.

Hey, what's going.

On here?

We have Cleveland at 7:05, Pittsburgh at 7:05, Indy at 7:05, Houston at 7:05, Denver at 6:06, Buffalo at 6:06. Cleveland is getting their quarterback next. Cleveland has a weird quarterback controversy because Flacko was pretty good today, and they got the rookie coming back next week. I don't know what they're going to do because Flacko hit one terrible pass and it was when it all fell apart. He threw it deep, missed the guy by 10 yards. But for the most part, we were marveling on the bench. This guy was in his backyard three weeks ago, and he had the play-action thing down. He was zipping 15-yarders. I thought he looked good, didn't you?

I absolutely did. I think they can make the playoffs with him. They need three games, right? They have seven wins. They're home against the Bear. They're home against the jets. So I'm thinking he might have said no to the jets. Don't you think the jets reached out to him? He probably said no. So if he's home against the bears and the jets and then that last game at the Bengals, there's a couple other games in there, too. But I don't mind him. Look, he's not one of these checkdown backups that comes in off the street. No.

He'll throw the ball downfield.

Yeah, he throws downfield. He and Elijah Moore, it's like, Oh, my God. Yeah, I guess they did hook up in a passing-wise, in a separate life, a little past life. But he looked good.

It was a borderline throwback performance. One of the legacies of today is there's these three AFC wildcard spots. I have no idea who wants them. But Buffalo didn't play and was the big winner today. Because you go through Cleveland, they lose. The Steeler's home game from hell, Pica gets hurt. This Steelers game, this is one of those if they play it 20 times, I think they might win 18 of the times where first drive of the game, they're about to score. They fuck up a third and short. All of a sudden, they're kicking a field goal. It's like, why didn't they get a touchdown on that? Then it's 3-3. They come back down, goal line stand by the awful, awful Cardinals defense that everybody's been running on all year. They stop them 3-3. Cardinals come back down. There's like stoppages with weather. There's two long stoppages. And then somewhere in the middle of that picket goes down. And this is the second time this year this happened to me. I had to Pittsburgh. I had a little same game parlay with the Stewers running backs to get 50 plus yards each, a friar to get 25 yards.

And Trubiski comes in and you're just like, I'm done. I have no chance. There's no way. There's no way back. Trubiski trying to come from behind. I have no chance.

He undid everything Gartner Menchie did for the backup quarterbacks. He's like, Hold my beer, Gairner.

So bad.

Hold my Iron City beer.

But I was rooting for Arizona because of the Pats. Like the Arizona, get them out. Now the Pats are locked into the top two.

Yeah. Well, I was talking about it with you guys. I was watching with like... It's not going to be like previous years where we're going to have a one-win team or two-win team. Even the bad ones, like the Bears are going to have four wins and Washington, and the giants. And then I'm like, Oh, no, The Patriots. The Patriots and Pathways are going to take care of all that. But back to The Stealers for a second, I'm like, God damn it, this team is so full of shit, they're going to get lucky. It's going to be a rare, rained-out football game, and it's unofficial. Even though it's like 21-10 and there's.

No way- What were the rules on that? Could they have just stopped the game and voided it or just froze in it? What happened? I think.

They could, but it would be a meteorological, however you say that, disaster, because they should have at least moved the game if the storm was going to be that bad, if they knew there's a storm system coming in. But I have another policy, a policy rule here. If the Arizona Cardinals of 2023 drive 99 yards on you, you're automatically eliminated from the playoffs. That's it. There's nothing to do with standings or anything. Sorry. I got to get you out.

One of my big preseason bets was Cardinals under four and a half wins, which I was feeling like I was pretty locked in on that until today. No, I don't feel as good. It's an awful Steeler's loss. Then we had seven and five, which is probably the right record for them. You could even say they maybe should be six and six. It didn't stop me from throwing the middle of money line partly today. It was one of my losses. We have.

Your team now, Thursday. So we'll.

Get to that. Yeah, I want to talk about that in a second. The Broncos finally lose. This is one I did hit with Houston. The turnover aggression from the Broncos, the historic plus 15 over four weeks. And it's like, okay, all right, stop it, guys. And then finally, it just flipped on them. And yet they still had a great chance to win. They came down and Wilson's gone to the point. He's not first half of the 2010's Russ, but he does make you nervous if you're betting against mid of the game. He's scrambling for a couple of first downs, near first downs. And then I thought considering they're running out of time, he throws the interception at the end, but it was the right play. He was trying to do a jump ball and he ended through it. Good play.

Good play by the defender. It was a fun game. I janked, Rush. Russ, I'll take all the responsibility. I told everyone. I'm like, Hey, he has no turnovers in the red zone this year. That's why they're going to keep it close. I said it podcast. I said it on Ring a Wise, guys. I told the guy in the produce section at Ralphs, anyone who would listen. But he also liked... He had two other interceptions because he threw down field, which he wasn't doing in the last three or four games. So he took some chances. He played outside of himself, which was working. So that's how he ended up with three interceptions, I think.

Certain went out during the game and it felt like that was it for Denver and Houston was just going to roll. And they had a double-digit lead at one point. And then all of a sudden, Denver is hanging around, hanging around. I thought it was a great win for Houston.

Good task force, too. Yeah, they really.

Did a nice job. I was impressed by their D. But then we find out after the game, Tank Del is probably out for the year. Looks like he has a hairline fracture of the fibula, and that guy was huge for them. So going back to the log gym at this wildcard spot, bad days for the Stealers, Broncos, and Texans, even though the Texans got to win and the Browns go backwards. And Buffalo, who we rode off two weeks ago, I think, is in a pretty nice spot now.

Well, they stopped their games, don't you think? The Bulls?

Could nine and eight be that seven seed now? I think today what changed is... We said last week it was going to be 10 wins. Now I think it could be nine. And then it'll come down to the AFC, your conference record, which is bad for Denver because I think they're three and five. But I think Buffalo is is lingering, and they have a big game that we're going to do in Guest of the Lines. Then in the NFC, Tampa, I guess, entered the chat because now we have Tampa and New Orleans and Five and Seven and Atlanta at six and six with an impetent offense. And it just feels like 8-9 is going to take that division with somebody, and I don't know who the team is going to be. And I don't know if I care, and I don't think we should be allowed to bet on it.

Why did we bet the Saints? We're already in. We're already in, me, you, and house. We looked at their schedule. This was great. They're so bad. There are very few... There are already only a few instances where Derek Karr should be taking snaps. He was Tason Hill.

He was getting booed the whole first half.

It's like he can't handle a snap now. He's fumbling. So yeah, that's a bad pick. Yeah, the Tampa, that line went down to three and a half, which is bad news if you're playing the Panthers, and they didn't even cover that.

It got down to three in some spots. Thebut the Saints were down 21-nothing, almost came back. They played all three quarterbacks. Tason Hill continues to be the best guy they have out there. For some reason I won't play him all the time. And then the Falcons mentioned them under 200 yards, 3.5 yards of carry. They gave up one of the worst safeties I've seen in five years on a second and second from their own two, this slow developing run play to the left. The guy got tackled five yards behind the end zone.

But the jets were just so bad. I think they're my most infuriating team of the Falcons this year. They passed the Stealers because at least I could figure out once in a while how to make money off the Stealers. But the Falcons are just... And that game, it seemed like, I know this sounds insane, but Zach Wilson probably would have won that game. He needed three first downs over the course of two hours. I think he would have won.

Tim Boyle, I think, is the worst of all the quarterbacks we've seen this year, and that's saying something. At least Zach Wilson had that ability every once in a while to just scramble and scramble for nine yards. I don't know, Tim Boyle can even do that. The jets are four and eight, but there's some good news. It looks like Aaron Rogers is going to be ready for round one. What? Yeah, he's going to be ready. They're going to be five and twelve, but he's going to be ready for round one.

It's nice to give yourself an out like that. He's like, Yeah, I'll come back. I think I should be ready. It all depends on if the jets are... The playoff-wise. They're going to have eight losses in December.

They were eliminated two weeks ago. Good luck on the comeback though.

This continues to be- I'll do your lawn for a year, but only if the jets make the playoffs. I'll tuck your lawn. All right? I'm telling you that right now.

It is amazing. And people are still writing about it and talking about it like it's a news story. I was on Twitter the other day and it was like this big graphic, active Aaron Rogers being activated on there. I was like, What? There's no way he's going to play. Why would you do that? So the Falcons barely win. And then the only thing with that Lion, Saints game we didn't talk about, the Lions have now given up basically 30 points a game for the last four weeks. And I just think they're dying to be beaten in the playoffs. That's going to be a live dog, whoever goes to Detroit in the 3-6, the 2-7, whatever it is. I think that is a very beatable team.

Yeah. I don't know who they'd want to play even. It's not the Packers.

Nobody that can throw the ball. Yeah. If it's anybody who can fling the ball around, that's who they don't want to see. Dolphins, Washington, Robo, Ron, I think just does not get fired now because they probably want a good pick. But Tyreke or Tua, where do you stand these days? Are you Tyreke or a Tua guy?

Well, I don't think Tua is ever going to convince people he's better than good or very good as long as Tyreke is there. I mean, it's ridiculous how fast Tyreke is and how much separation he gets. I used to say, like Bruce Lee, they'd put weights in his hands to slow them down, like in the movies. I feel like you all have to do that with Tyreke Hill and his ankles because it's an unfair fight otherwise.

I had this same game, Parley, I did today where it was Tyreke to have over 150 yards, Tyreke to have a TD, the Dolphins to score over 29 and a half, and two to get the 286 yards passing. And I was like, well, if Tyreke gets 150, Toa will definitely get. And Toa ends up with 280 and I just about lost. It was like 10 to 1. I was so excited about it. They got such a big lead too, we didn't have to throw the ball anymore. And then that was it. I was like, man, talk about... This is why those same gamers are so tough.

How did they give it up? 90 in the last two weeks? Washington? No.

Yeah, it's the worst.

It was 90-25. How does he not get fired? They said they could keep them around, but these guys always lie.

Well, they did the thing where they got rid of the defensive coordinator.

Such a great move. Yeah, DelRoy is gone. Yeah, it's smart. Well, that made the difference.

So the big thing for me today was Pat's chargers.

I could see.

-with Arizona, Pittsburgh. And then Arizona starts beating Pittsburgh. I have money on Pittsburgh. I don't care. I'm like, I'm fine. I'll lose the bet. Arizona, please win this. And then, Panthers Bucks. The Pat's, their defense has been absolutely awesome the last three weeks. They've given up 26 points in the last three weeks. They're the first team since Chicago in 1938 to lose three games in a row where they gave up 10 points or less in each of the games. It's never happened in the last 70 years. And the chargers, they ran for 29 yards of 24 carries. Herbert looked awful. We were like, is he hurt? What's going on? It didn't even look like he was throwing it correctly. And the Pat scored zero points. They replaced Mac Jones with Bailey Zappi.

Who I.

Don't want to say he was worse because he didn't throw a PIC 6, but it's like I wrote down he's splendid Mac Jones.

It's.

Not as many calories, but it still sucks. But you're not... It's like, Oh, it's splendid. He's like the healthier Mac Jones, but he's still just as bad.

Is he healthier? I think he's taking years off your life. Yeah.

Mac Jones is less healthy, I think, to watch.

I see. Okay. Yeah, it is.

Very difficult. Bill of this is just bad. It's just incomplete. He scrambling into a sack. But nothing truly bad happens.

Right. But the Chargers were dying to give that game away, just like they were dying to give the Ravens away last week, just like every other game. You know how hard it is to cover five and a half when you score only two field goals. You know what? The other team has to score zero.

That's what he did. Do you think that's ever happened in the history of football?

I don't know if it did.

I'm going to cover two field goals and then cover by half point.

Come on, you need to step up? Out.

John Newell will find out. Their fist pumping on the sidelines. It's like, you guys were awful. You couldn't even get to nine points. I will say Kaleel Mack, this is like the third game in a row where it felt like he was everywhere just demolishing people. But I'm officially... Van and I talked about it later in the pod because he had a lot of college football quarterback thoughts. I'm officially in the Caleb Williams-Drake-Mazone. I'm going to have to watch all these games. Yeah, because the Pats are a top two worst team now. I know.

I was getting annoyed at you because you're talking about the Clipper Saturday afternoon. I'm like, well, you watched that freaking Alabama Georgia game as a 40- I.

Watched it. I watched the whole game.

50 %, 70 % chance that your draft pick is in this game. You did watch it.

I watched it. All right. So the draft is when? Last week of April? So I have five and a half months. The day that I were talking about I haven't had a high pick like this in football since I was in college. So I haven't gone through the process like you would in basketball where it's like, Oh, all right, top three pick. I got to study to do the YouTube, so I got to get into it. Who do you have right now? You have Caleb.

Or you have Drake? I think you can't pass on Caleb Williams. I just think he does too many good things and too similar to my homes, and there's some bad side, too, but that's got to be your guy.

Well, Splendent Mac Jones to care of business for us. But unfortunately, the Panthers, they take the lead against the Bucks. And it's like, this is it. The Bucks are banged up. Panthers have momentum. And then fucking Mike Evans, who during this game, got his 10th straight 1,000 yard season. That was another thing we were talking about as we're watching the game. Mike Evans is like, is this the best career? Nobody's ever had a conversation in more than 10 seconds about. He's won a Super Bowl, 10 straight 1,000 yard seasons. He goes for 38 dollars in the fantasy draft every year, and nobody's ever talked about him once.

Yeah. I think he's such a log jam for wide receivers that haven't gotten in the Hall of Fame. I feel like he's separating himself. Even this year, it was supposed to be a lost year. You figured, braided is gone. You got Baker, maybe wasn't even going to play today. And he's going to keep that streak intact and everything else. And they did just enough to beat Carolina.

He beat Carolina by himself. And Carolina, the difference between the Pats and Carolina, I don't think the Pats are necessarily trying to lose, but obviously they're not going to be too upset with the losses. But Carolina has nothing to play for. They kept showing the owner in the luxury box during the game, Tepper. Yeah. And they're showing him and he's really into it. He wants more wins. He does not want to go one in 16. So they get to play the Bucks one more time, but this is their best chance for winning. And honestly, Bryce just wasn't good. The playcalling, they had a third and one and a fourth of one when they're running the ball up the middle, all game against Tampa, and they're down three and they're driving or trying to drive. And they just do these stupid shotgun, Bryce Young scrambling around plays and they blow it.

I mean, he has four or five games without a touchdown pass now. It's not like he, like you said, he's not running for 80 yards either. So it's not ideal.

He looks terrible. I'm not going to write him off because his weapons are bad. Well, he looks terrible. They can't really block. He doesn't have any weapons. He's not a bad team. They just got rid of his offensive coordinator, NShead Coach, last week. So every single checkpoint is like, This is bad. And we saw this happen with Trevor Lawrence a couple of years ago, where he looked terrible during the Urban Meyer year. But I haven't even seen flashes from him in the games I've watched.

I'm not even in the- Not even flashes. I mean, I think Thielen is like a top six receiver right now if you look at stats. Right. I don't want to write them off either. But you're feeling good if you're the Texans, that's for sure.

Well, you're feeling really good if you're the bears.

Right.

So you made that Price Young trade. Now you can do whatever with your pick, try to win, try to get some momentum. You might even have an chance to get the seventh seed if it's eight, nine, or nine and eight. It's seven, Nine, two, three, and two. You're the lead. And Carolina will take you home with one of the top two picks. And now you can use this whole time as Justin Fields scouting mission. All right, we take a break and then we'll do Guest of the lines. All right. Before we do Guest of the lines, were you happy with the college championship stuff? Van and I talked about it later, so give me your take. Yeah.

Well, how do you know what you and Van talked about if it hasn't happened yet? This is a blow in my mind. No, I'm happy because I have a lot of money on. I bet an SCC team to win the whole thing before the year started. That was my big bet. And I'm like, Holy shit. There's not even going to be an SCC team represented. Fama or Georgia are going to be out. As of last night, you could have gotten five to one odds through Fandul. I don't know how much you could have put on it. I don't know what they put the limit on. That Florida State was not going to get in. They were a lock to get in. And I said, Holy crap, this is really weird. And then everything tightened up by noon Eastern time today. I'm happy. I'm not one of those guys. Look, it sucks that they were undefeated and they didn't get in, but this is an invite-ional, and they were going to be at 13 point on their dog to Michigan, and there are 13 point on the dog Florida State is in their bowl game against Georgia.

So it is what it is. I'm happy with Alabama and Texas getting in.

And what's the line in the Michigan game that we're actually having?

It's one and a half. Michigan is one and a half.

Right. So it's hard to say they did the wrong thing if it's a 12-point discrepancy with the two different games. All right. Guess the line is week 14. I can't believe this, but I thought this was going to be the easiest possible Pat's win, this Chargers game today. It's like, Oh, the Chargers, they fucking suck. They're going to come in. We're going to beat them nine to six. Now we're playing at Pittsburgh on Thursday, and it's Mitch Trubiski. And it's a Pat's defense that, as we covered in the last segment, has been really good. And I just don't see the Steeler scoring more than 17 points against this defense. So could their defense takes Splend to Mac Jones and hold us to three? Could this be a Mylik Cunningham spot? How bad is Mylik Cunningham that he still can't get reps? He go from Mac Jones with five Picks sixes this year or four, whatever he has, to Zappy, who just puts up a goose egg. And still, they won't go to Mylik Cunningham. This game is in Pittsburgh. It's a Thursday night. I have no idea who's playing for either team. Tj Watt was hurt at one point in that game and they were working on him.

Who knows if he's going to play? I have The Stealers in the Vegas Zone by four and a half.

I said five and it's six. So I get that one. Yeah, a couple of things. First of all, the Over on there opened at 31 and a half. That's the lowest of the year. And so everything you just said is right. They don't know where the hell the points are going to come from. So this could be like a 13.10 type game. The second thing is you talk about low points for the Patriots, and I'm sure you have your list, but it had to be last Thursday on Amazon when they previewed this game and they put the graphic up and they didn't even have a player. It was TJ Watt for the Stealers and Bill Belichick. They couldn't even find a player. Who do you even... This has to be bold and bold material. Bill Belichick should show everybody this graphic on the team and be like, You guys suck so bad that I'm the draw for this game. They couldn't even come up with any of you.

I would go obviously in my path circles we noticed this. I go the other way. They're showing Belichick because he did such a bad job of drafting all the guys in the team. They just had to show him. It's like, This is his fault. We don't have a player to put here. And now Stevenson, Stevenson got hurt today. He's not playing in this game either. So you're talking about Zeke, Elliot, who you had on your team forever. Devante, Parker, who I've never seen a player consistently less open at any level of football that I've ever watched. I've watched including high school football and flag football. He is draped by whoever's covering him on every single play. And then Gaseki, who's the shorthanded tight end who just drops passes every week. Juju Smith-Schuster, who's playing on one leg. This is... From a skill position standpoint, this is rock bottom. You can't do worse than the Pat skills guy.

It probably is his fault. I was thinking about today, the jets and the Patriots have good defense and they play. They seem to show up every week. How pissed must those guys be? You parade these losers in to take snaps all over. And then you got the Bulls and Dolphins who have dynamite offenses. It's a very strange division. I don't remember anything like this.

I don't know how either team gets to 14 points in this game. Because the one thing that Patz have been doing consistently is shutting down run games completely. And the Stealers, that's all they're going to be able to do in this game. So I don't know.

You got TJ Watt on the graphic and a defensive specialist in Belichick. So yeah, there's probably going to be no points.

Well, another thing that happened to the Patz, they flexed them out of the Monday-Night game, which was another gut punch. Another love. And then this morning I tweeted something about how they showed the stands. There was 18,000 people there. It's pouring rain. They're playing in the red uniforms. We have whatever terrible quarterback to this week, it was Zappy that we're starting. We're going for the number one pick. And it was like, I'm fucking in college again. This might as well be 1991. Come back, baby. Give me some marble lights.

College was fun. Wait a minute. What game did they flex you out of? Was it the Chiefs?

We're playing the Chiefs game. Yeah, they flexed us out of there.

That's the low point. Forget what I said about.

The graphic. Nobody's ever been flexed out. I mean, it's the second year they've had the rule, but yeah, we got.

Flexed out. Forget about that. They're potentially foregoing a Taylor Swift cutaway or 10 to get you out of there.

She doesn't even want to go. She's out. She's like, Travis, I'm going to skip that one. Sunday's Marquee Game has to be the 13-second rematch, right? Chief's Bills?

Yes.

I would say that. It's in Kansas City. We get lots of clips of the 13-second thing. There's going to be some awesome segment on one of the NFL shows. Was this the moment? The Bulls, this was when the wheels came off this thing, these 13 seconds.

Right.

From what I saw from The Chiefs today and what we've seen from the Bulls offense, I don't know how the Chiefs can be favored by more than three. And I know the Bulls are six and six, but I'm going to say Chiefs by three.

That's exactly what I had, and that's what it is right now. Because that's what the Eagles were, right? Were they two and a half, three? And so now everyone's going to be very cautious with the Bills as they have all these are must-wins the rest of the way.

That's a great spot for the Bills.

You.

Banged up Chief's Defense. Can they just outscorn for them? Can they make it like a 34 to 31, 38 to 34 type game? Just let's have a back and forth because they have more weapons.

Yeah.

They probably try to run on them and slow it down.

Right. Against Philly, yeah, they'll have it.

Chiefs are eight and four, what were they? Twelve and a half before the season for an over and under?

I think they were. I think that's right.

Yeah. The chiefs are eight and four. Chiefs can be eight and four after 12 weeks. And the division is wrapped. We're going to be like, Oh, my God. Did Herbert blow out his ACL? What happened? No, the charges are just awful.

They're minus 3,000 for the division.

That's a great call. They're eight and four. All right, the watchables.

And now they're second for the Super Bowl. They're plus 470. I don't see the Niners relinquishing that top spot until they lose plus 350.

Agree. They'd have to have some... Yeah. Well, what's for the conference? The Chiefs are plus 2-10, Ravens plus 2.80. I'll tell you, I think I would bet on the Dolphins out of all the teams at plus 360 because I think they have a chance to get a one seed. I think they're really hard to play at home. They're fast. The whole thing with them is like, can two stay healthy? Well, now we're in December, he's healthy. They figured out a way to protect him. He doesn't take big hits, game after game after game. They can run the ball and they get two 50-yard plays a game from somebody. If I look at the AC, I think that's the best team.

Yeah, they get the one seed. They'd have to score 30 points two weeks in a row. They're not going to win a 17-16 game, probably. Probably.

Let's talk this out. If they get the one seed, then they're playing the winner of the four or five, right?

Unless there's an upset.

Unless there's a major upset. So worst-case scenario, that's like Jacksonville versus the top wildcard, which might be Buffalo.

We just said Chiefs could be a four, right? The Chiefs are the four now?

They'll keep climbing. Yeah. So maybe the Chiefs will be the danger, but maybe the Chiefs aren't even dangerous this year. Right. All right. I got four watchables, which is pretty high. I actually thought the early games were good today. I was enjoying on the YouTube multiview. There was a text in Sprott. All four of them were good, and there was no.

Stink- Detroit might be a game. Your team, there was a game. But even when the Stealers went away, it's like, all right, maybe they could... But then it was nothing.

That goofy Colts game ended up being a good one? All right, Watchables. Baltimore is home against the Rams of Los Angeles. I went back and forth on this between four and a half and four, and I'm going to say Ravens by four and a half.

Oh, wow. Way off. I said six and a half. It's seven and a half.

That's too high. I disagree with that line.

I don't know what we think about the Rams. I guess they're...

I'm not sure. I know what I think. This Williams is a really good running back, and he's got two receivers that are open the whole game, Stafford. I think they're pretty good. I mean, the Browns have a good defense and they move the ball on them the whole game. Maybe the Browns don't have as good of a defense. Maybe they peaked in September and October. But I thought the Rams... Lombardi was big today on the Jim Schwartz defense against McBay because there's been a lot of success. I could feel it early. And then it felt like Stafford solved them and it's like Puca broke a couple of big plays. The Browns just as good of a defense as they have, they just give up these long plays, these run after the catch. They didn't have a ward today either, which I thought hurt them.

Right. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. As a running quarterback, it might be a different story here versus Flacko to deal with. Yeah, maybe.

I like the Rams in that spot with a lot of points. Next one is Detroit to Chicago. I have this as a watchable because I could see the bears beating the lions. I think the lions, in general, they seem to be in a lot of exciting games. And I could see the bears moving the ball on them. And I like the way the bears front seven is playing. So I have this in The Vegas Zone 2. I have Lions by four and a half at Chicago.

We split this. I said three and a half. It's four. But yeah, this should be a good... I mean, this was a great game three weeks ago, right? The bears were up 12 points and blew it. Right. When you thought they were going to lose it, they won 31-26 Detroit.

I think it'll be fun. They know they can play with them. The Lions got super lucky in that game. And I think the bears are out of all the under 500 teams. They're probably the one playing the best right now. If you're going four wins and under, they're probably the best. Next one, 49ers home for the Seahawks. It's not a must-win for the Seahawks, but they lose this one. What's their record? They're 6 and 7?

6 and 7 if they lose. This was the stretch where we thought they could end up six and eight after. What's their next game?

They have another game. Somebody else could get the next game, yeah. Who do they have?

Well, you could steal this from me. I'll find it in a second. But you could steal this from me because I was four points off.

Oh, shit. I had 49ers by eight.

Oh, wow. You were four and a half points off. I said eight and a half. It's 12 and a half. Really? They're not letting anybody get anything going on the 9ers. Oh, my God. Yeah.

The Seahawks have a... Cx have The Eagles next.

Eagles. Right. That's right.

Honestly, that line is ridiculous. They're just throwing in an extra three points because people are so scared of the Niners right now. The Seahawks, they can get cheap touchdowns at the end of the game. They could be down to 14 and get garbage time something.

It's recently biased because on Thanksgiving Night, they lost by 18. They were not in that game at all, Seattle against the four Niners, right?

But you saw it against Dallas. Now that their rookie receiver got going, they have three receivers that can get open and all do different things.

Yeah, for sure. It's just tough because what they score 16 against the Rams and then 13 against the Niners. It might just be my Cowboys.

Last watchables I had, because I think this might be a loser leaves town match is Chargers-Broncos in L. A.

Yeah.

And I know this is in the TikTok zone. I just don't know who is favorite in this.

Wow.

And I probably made a mistake. But I took the Chargers minus one and a half.

I said two and a half. It's three. Chargers by three? Chargers by three? Let me see if you've moved.

I like the Broncos.

Yeah, still three.

That's too high. The Chargers suck.

You can't ever lay points with them, right?

They're bad. Honestly, there is no difference with them in the past other than Herbert. They're basically the exact same teams. Even Kenan-Allens now banged up.

What are we doing? A fan, though, should have a % Broncos, Jersey, and SoFi. I'm trying to think of what... They travel well, I think.

Bronco's fans are- Definitely. Yeah, that's at least half.

64 or 62 %? We were.

Talking about best running backs we've ever seen today when we were watching the games. And I always say, Tarrell Davis, those two Denver years is the best running back I've ever seen. And everybody, anytime I mention that somebody has, they do like a triple take. And then I have to go to the pro football reference and show how he had 3,800 yards in two straight years. Then the playoffs was almost 600 yards the first year and almost 500 the second year. It was like six yards of carry in the playoffs. Nobody's ever had a two year run like this as a running back where they won the Super Bowl and annihilated everybody. And it's just never mentioned now. And everybody's like, Is it Barry? Is it Ldenian? Is it OJ? It's like Ldenian never came close. Never came close to one Tarrell Davis season, much less the two that he had in a row when they won the Super Bowl. But it just goes to show you some guys can be awesome and they just disappear and nobody thinks about.

Them again. I'm trying to think. It's probably because he probably should have made the cover of a fantasy magazine or two more than he did. Who would have.

Made it back then? He had a three-year run total, and he got hurt immediately at the start of the '99 season. Then that was it. They couldn't recover from those knee injuries back then.

I feel like he's thrown in the mix with, like, a priest, Holmes, who also had a three-year or Larry Johnson or a couple of those guys, but he shouldn't be. He was phenomenal.

They went seven and a 0 in the playoffs in every game. He was 150 yards and two touchdowns. Fairly watchables, I got three. Falcons, home, no way.

For Tampa. It's a fairly watchable because this game has major NFC South ramifications. I hate it. I could not put it in the poop facto. I got Falcons by three. I hate it.

I don't feel good about it. That's what I said. I said the same thing. It's two and a half.

I mean, how embarrassing.

I couldn't even remember. I had to look back. I guess they already played the Falcons 1, 16, 13.

So the Falcons have been favorite... They've already played these two teams?

Yeah. See? They played a few weeks ago, 16, 13, the Falcons won.

So the Falcons been in games that have a spread of less than three for the entire season now? I feel like they've invented the... The TikTok zone is one and a half and under, and the Falcons, it's like two or two and a half every week.

They were like three out of five games where they're line change. They were favored and then an underdog. And then the TikTok flipped on them a couple of times. Yeah, it's just so uninspiring. This team can't watch every... What did like B. John Robinson do today? Did he even play? Nothing. I didn't watch it too much.

I'm in two leagues, including, I think, one with you where Kyle Pits is just on the waiver wire now.

Oh, yeah.

He's not even on a team. We have like 20-person rosters. He's not considered one of the best 20 fantasy tight ends. I spent $30 on him last year. He's 23 years old.

The Ron Blaine, the cornerback for the Cowboys, has more touchdowns than Kyle Pits in his career. And this was a decent- Is that true? Yeah. Kyle Pits, I think, has three or four touchdowns in his career. And this was a decent game. I'm looking 51 yards? Bravo. That's a huge game for Kyle Pits.

The lesson, as always, I think, is don't take a running back or a tight end with the top 10 pick. Just don't. Oh, yeah. No. Just don't. Those are the two positions where you can get anybody during the season at a discount. Next game, Fairly Watchers.

I'm sorry. I'm looking at Desmond Ridders numbers. And I guess the answer is he played the jets, but Boyle actually had probably better numbers than he did. Twelve for 27, 121? Yeah.

And he overthrew a couple of guys. I thought that jets defense was really good today. That was the best I've seen from them. And it didn't matter because they had no quarterback.

I'm saying, Jets and Patriots. What is going on?

I said this to Shiel on Thursday. Did you know about how Sala has seven kids?

No, I didn't.

Robert Sala, the Jets coach, has seven kids. Is it seven? Wow. And I had a friend of mine who's a jets fan saying, How is this guy a competent coach when he has seven kids? Do you know anybody with even four kids and they're a fucking mess in all aspects of their life. But seven kids? Would you ask somebody with seven kids to go get you a newspaper?

No.

Or bring you back a six-pack of beer? You're just basically drowning.

Well, Philip Rivers was a borderline Hall of Fame quarterback for a while with maybe even more kids. But- So.

He's the only one who pulled it off.

I look at the Jets offense. I'm like, This looks like it's run by a guy who has seven kids. You're exactly right.

They can't do anything. See, I cracked it.

Jags at Browns. It's in Cleveland. Big controversy here between DTR and Flocko. We'll see. This runs us of Foles versus Wentz and some of the great controversies over the years. Great spot for the Jags. You couldn't pick a better week to play the Browns because the Browns defense seems to be going the wrong way. And I have the Jags by three and a half in Cleveland.

No, you're going to get it. I had one and a half. It is three.

Okay.

I couldn't make it more than... I don't know what they're doing with Cleveland. But again, this is not... I don't see that as this is one of the games that they need to win to get the 10.

Well, Cooper got hurt in the game today, too. And if he doesn't come back, basically, it's Elijah Moore and a bunch of Waverwire dudes.

Well, you know what? That's a funny... That's a good point you bring up because Flacko obviously has a connection with Elijah Moore that DTR doesn't. So if he's their main guy, that could be the deciding factor who is the starting quarterback.

Vikings are at the Raiders, and somebody is favored by Minus 1 in this game. And I went back and forth and back and forth, and I settled on Minnesota minus one over Vegas.

You got it. I thought Vegas was minus one. I had the same analysis. It is Minnesota by one and a half.

Tiktak sound.

Yeah.

I like Vegas in that. I think Dobbs might have hit midnight.

What happened to Dobbs? That's a stupid Monday game. We never talked about it. He's Josh Dobbs.

Poop Fecta, three of them, Colts at Bangles. And I put this on the TikTok zone, too. I have Colts by one and a half at Cincinnati.

You get this also. I was having migraines trying to figure out who's favorite, and I made it a Pick 'em, which is dumb. It's Colts by three.

We even had a Pick 'Em all year, I.

Don't think. No, you're right.

They don't want to have Pick 'Em anymore. We used to have when we were growing up as young gamblers, they used to be Pick 'Ems.

And then for a minute they had minus a half in there. They're like, Well, they're like, We don't know what to do.

With that. Oh, the 0.5er?

Yeah.

Texans at the Jets. And I can't believe I have this only Texans by three, but the Jets defense was good enough.

This.

Week that I did Texans minus three. Is that off?

That's slow. I said five and a half. It's six. It's still the jets. You think about point scored.

You're talking to Nico Collins, Robert Woods, and Dalton Schultz. Pretty mediocre running game.

Didn't even play. Yeah.

Yeah, maybe Schultz. R rookie QB, bad stadium with a weird turf, bad luck turf. I don't like this game.

What do you have for jets? How many points are they going to score? Twelve?

Well, did you see that Salah might do Simeon? Might be their fourth starting quarterback this year.

Yeah. Well, I mean, he's spiting them. Come on. Zach Hulson is better than these guys. This is dumb. Unless you think Aaron Rogers can play. Unless you think... Because I read something.

He's supposedly going to be ready for round one. He's ready. That's what they're saying.

Come on, Aaron.

What ahave a comeback, that would be. It'd be funny if he just showed up at somebody's round one, even though the jets have been eliminated. Ready.

He's at the Shakees Bowl with us, watching?

Saint's Panthers in New Orleans. I don't think the Panthers can be favored by less than six on the road against basically anyone in the League, except for two teams.

Can be underdog, mate.

Yeah. Underdogs. I have Saint's by six, exactly.

That's what I had. And it's five and a half.

Are you beating me this week?

We get three games left. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. Yeah, I am. 8, 6. Okay. Let's do it. We have four games left, right? Oh, no, we got a lot of games left.

I thought we had a Sunday night and two Monday nights.

I'm sorry. You get the Raiders. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.

Yeah.

It's eight, seven. There's two Monday nights.

We did a Sunday nighter.

Did we do Denver Chargers?

We did it. Yeah. Okay. Next one is the Cowboys Eagles on Sunday night in Dallas. I have in my notes written two or two and a half. And I'm going to say cowboys by two and a half.

I said three, and it is three.

Oh, nice.

Well, they hate Philly for some reason. I don't know what it is.

How many weeks in a row can you fall behind in the first half and then have to scramble back? I don't know. Looks really easy to move the ball against him. It might be- Did you think- -we see this sometimes.

I think it was smart to put Hertz back in that game. I feel like he's close to missing a game soon.

I wouldn't have brought him back. So you could win this game and you're in a tie with them.

Stop it.

Well, I'm just saying you'd be tied at nine and three, and then it would come down to you beat them. They beat you, and now comes down to 19, tie breakers and all kinds of stuff. Monday night, two games. I have no idea why we have two games. Why are they doing this? I can't think of a single reason. Why is December 11th a two-game night?

They're changing a lot of stuff. First of all, the Byes were always done by Thanksgiving, and now you got, not that it matters, but Washington and Arizona are off week 14. And then we have two Monday night games.

All right. Packers at the giants. And this looks like a classic Packers by three and a half.

I said three and a half. It's five and a half.

I.

Forgot how the giants were off last week. I forgot how bad they were. 10, 2, 3.

4- Yeah, you won the week.

Congrats. No, it's 10-9. You could tie me. There was a miscalculation. You could tie me here. And you're going toI think you're going to tie me. I was way off here.

Dolphins, home for the Tennessee Titans. I have Dolphins by 12 and a half.

Oh, wow. Good call. Why did I say nine and a half? It's 13. Who?

Thirteen.

All right, you tie. We tie. All right, so there's a three-team teaser in there for us if we want it.

A little scarred by the Chiefs today.

I know, but that was a weird spot. But the Niners aren't losing to Seattle.

Is it time for a 13-pointer, finally?

I think that's... Well, do you like Jacksonville tomorrow or no?

I do.

Let's start.

With that. For the people listening, you can do 14, 13 point teasers. It's minus 120 juice. So you could have Dolphins even against the Titans. You could have the 49ers just to beat the Seahawks. You could take the bills all the way to plus 16. Wow. And you could take the packers to plus seven and a half at the giants. That sounds fun.

Wow. These teams that don't score? Yeah.

Yeah, sounds great. All right, let's do some parent corner. All right, what do you got?

All right. So all of a sudden, the house is big Oregon, big Ducks fans, and the Pack 12 championship was Friday night, and my son's there. They're playing Washington, who they lost to by a field goal earlier in the year. And my son and his friends actually went to Seattle, or wherever I think they're playing Seattle, to see that game. And he's like, I'm jinks in this. I'm not going to Vegas to see the Pac-12 Championship. I jinks the first game. So they lose by a field goal, they don't show up. They lose by field goal again to Washington. And I'm like talking to him. I'm like, Oh, my God, that's a bummer. He's like, Yeah, the whole campus is just distraught. They're lighting candles and everything. It's just the worst. I'm like, Yeah, that sucks. I never had anything. I went to a small school without a college. I can't even imagine what they're going through. And they're going to go to the big 10 next year and probably going to lose four games. So this was going to be the year. Bonix was great. He threw completely 77 % of his passes. They beat the hell out of everybody except Washington.

And now they're playing Liberty in the Fiestable. That's an insult to injury. But anyway, I'm like, So what were you doing when you were watching? And how did it go at the end? He's like, Yeah, it was terrible. It's just a bunch of us. And we're gathered around and it was awful. He's like, But I will say I did live bet Oregon plus seven and a half when they were down 17. So what do you mean you live bet? How are you betting? He's like, Well, no, it's like this app that gives you real money. If you bet fake money, but if you do well enough, they give you real money and they put it in your account. I was like, if they put it in your real account? Yeah. This sounds crazy. I feel like he's not telling me the truth, but I was like, All right, whatever.

So he has a book hein college.

Yeah, he's probably into three loan sharks by now. He is.

Half you. How did we expect this to play out?

Cat's in the cradle, baby. My boy is on his way. The apple didn't fall far. The apple is leaning on the tree right now.

Well, I started gambling in college. This is part of college. You got to learn independence and you learn how to make a parlay and a tease.

Yeah, this is it. This is my freshman years when I got hammered the worst, I think. Do you remember what did you lose in college betting? I was terrible in my question.

-of course I did. What do you mean? It's 1990, '91. I think it was 1990. Yeah. And now you win your first bet. I remember the first great bet I won was there was a Chief Dolphins playoff game. And I forget who won, but the team that lost somehow covered, but they lost. It was like one of those.

Was Montana the Chief's quarterback?

It was like the... I forget who won, but somebody won by two or two and a half.

The.

Bird? The underdog, they won by a point, but the underdog cover is one of those. I was like, This is amazing. So the team lost, but they won the bet. Oh, my God. My whole brain broke.

I thought it was so cool. Thank God they didn't have 13 point teasers back then because I would have lost at all. But that was my freshman year. And Harry had, believe it or not, that's where I met my friend Harry, and he had a good summer job. He would work overtime. And I was like, I need to borrow everything you made over the summer. And so I'm forever paying him back for that in different ways.

When did you first hit up your parents because you owed money from gambling somehow?

No, Harry was my parents. And so Harry.

Was your parents?

Yeah, I couldn't tell them. Did you hit up yours?

Yeah. It was like my junior, senior year. I told them I was joining a gym and I needed $500 for a gym membership. And which they gave to me. Yeah, this was the game. It was January fifth, 1991, and it was the Dolphins favored by two and a half. They beat the Chiefs 17 to 16. They scored 14 points in the fourth quarter, but the chiefs covered the plus two and a half. And it was just magical. It was just the best. I was like, Oh, my God. I can't believe it. Martin Schoenheimer. I won money on Marty Schoenheimer.

Who were the quarterbacks then?

You.

Got to find it.

I got it here. It was Steve de Berg.

Yeah.

That's what I figured. Beating Dan Marino. Wow.

Did I do that right? Marino won, but you.

Had- Dan Marino beating Steve de Berg. Right. So I bet on Marty Schotenheimer, who blew a playoff game with a two-touchdown lead in the fourth quarter, and I won money on it. But don't worry, he got me back many, many times over the next 20 years.

We didn't cover against the bills once. Yeah, exactly.

So my parent corner is about myself. My wife really wanted to go to the Stevie Nicks concert last night at the Forum. Stevie Nicks Legend, one of my all-time favorite artists. I normally don't go see musicians that maybe have peaked in the past, right? But in this case, Stevie still got the pipes. So we go and she was really good. It was at the L. A. Forum. And we're looking around at the crowd, like the audience. And you're like, Wait, am I these people? And then I was trying to think what was the equivalent of when our parents were going to stuff when we were kids and they were going to concerts and they were super excited because it was a big star. But yet the way we saw that star. So it would be like who? Like Dean Martin?

I guess so. Yeah. Or something like that. We're talking 30 years ago in their prime?

Let's say it's like 1988 and our parents are going to a concert and they're going to.

See- Sinatra.

Or something. Yeah, like Sinatra?

Yeah, for sure. In the late.

50s- It would have been amazing to see Sinatra. And it was amazing to see Stevie Nicks. She's been in my life for 45 years, but I was looking around and we were... I don't know if we were the youngest people there, but the age range was definitely mid 40s and up. And I thought we all looked great and I felt awesome about it. I was like, You know what? We're some of the best looking people here. This is great. But it was a little emotional at the end because the last song was Landside, and she does all these pictures with Christine McVee who died. So you got this artist you're seeing, they're paying tribute to this other artist you love and they're dead. I'm like, Man, I guess I'm just old. I guess that's the lesson of this is I'm just a legitimately old person.

Well, I thought you were going to say that. I thought you said, I don't usually like seeing the ones that are past their prime because you can close your eyes and they sound pretty similar to.

How you remember them.

I saw her with Billy Joel earlier in the year or last year or whatever. She was great. But yes, looking around at the crowd is what's depressing. And we don't see ourselves like that.

I would say, Stevie and Billy Joel have handled it the best out of anybody from that '70s, '80s era, how they sound now, they still sound... She could sing all the songs that she used to sing and was still in the right ranges for it. I was really impressed. Yeah, it was good.

I'm going to blow your mind here. 1971, which is about when we were born. The same time from then to now is the same time from 1971 to 1919. Goodbye. See you. It's the same span.

It's a World War I to our births.

Listen, just have Big Dom sit on my head already. End it. I've had it.

That's another job for Big Dom. He's Dr. Kavorkian by sitting on people's heads. All right, Cuz, you can listen to Cuz on Against All Odds, that podcast, as well as Cuz and Sal's winning weekend of Fandle. You're on Through the Ringer with Tate tomorrow on Fandle TV and on the Through the Ringer pod. And, Wise guys, did you lost.

Today, though? Lots of fun. Yeah, I got killed. I had the worst bet ever, probably, which is the commanders. I don't know why I thought.

They had something to do. I hated it. I'm sorry. I got to say, my coffee was still kicking in, but you seem pretty cocky during the show. I know. You seem very confident. You're like, I'm trying to get those guys...

I tried to get under Rahim's skin a little bit. House is impenetrable. He's just such a.

Nice guy. House's WiFi is so bad you can't even hear you. His WiFi is.

Cutting out. That's impenetrable, too. Yeah, I was bad today. I apologize to everyone.

Yeah. All right, guys. Well, regardless, good job by you. Good job by you. All right, here with Van Leythen, we're typing this part on Sunday afternoon. We just watched some football together. You're going to explain the college football playoff to me. So Florida State goes 13-0, but they weren't invited to the four-team party. This is one of the many reasons why I don't really care what happens with college football year to year. But you grew up with it, so you have to care. But what a stupid sport.

I think that Floors they got shafted. I really do. I think that they got shafted. The issue is the purview that you look at the playoff through, right? So it's not supposedly the best team. Excuse me, it's not the most deserving team. It's the best team. They want to put the four best teams in, is.

What they're saying. So they're throwing a party and they want the two best games in the semifinals. It's not just the record.

It's not just the record, is what they would tell you. What they would tell you is not just the record. It is where you're at right now, a snapshot of how a team is playing, right? Because Alabama is the team that most people would say that Florida State was up against to get the last spot. They pulled off a fantastic win against Georgia.

I watched it.

In the SC Championship.

It was very entertaining.

Fantastic win. The Alabama that we're looking at now is the Alabama team, how they're playing now and what they've built to over the season. If you take Alabama from earlier this season when Jaylen Millrow, the quarterback, didn't have the game figured out, Tommy Reiss, the office coordinator, wasn't calling things, you wouldn't have said that that team was one of the best four teams in the country, right? So if you look at the totality of their season, you're not really taking Alabama season into consideration as much as you're taking them what they've done, but how they're playing right now is what the committee is saying. To me, the way I look at it is this. Jordan Travis, the quarterback for Florida State, got injured on the hip drop tackle. Florida State found a way to win over Florida and in the AC Championship game without their quarterback. They went from being a team that was more balanced, play complementary football, offense and defense to just strangling people defensively and still winning. I think when you talk about best, you have to talk about full team effort. I think they deserve to be there.

So if there was the gambling line for each matchup and it was Michigan, Florida State, wouldn't that spread have been bigger than Michigan, Alabama? Of course. So that must be how they think about it. I wonder if they talk to casinos.

I doubt that they do. I think what they want to do... And look, I'm not getting on the back of the committee. I think what they want to do is put what they feel like are the teams that are playing the best, that are the best constituted right now in the playoff. And I get that. I just personally think if we're going to play an entire season of a sport, a whole season of a sport, and some team is going to go Saturday in and Saturday out every single weekend and win, and then win their conference and find ways to win without their best player, I think they deserve the opportunity to play for it. Love Alabama or hate Alabama, they stubbed their toe once at home against Texas. Like, Florida State, even though they lost Jordan Travis, they never had a bad night. They never had a bad night on the Saturday. They never came up short. I just think it sucks that they don't get rewarded for that.

Did you think that was the team that was going to get screwed? Yeah.

The moment that he got hurt, they were essentially out, right? Yeah. Because I can't think of a team that they wouldn't have put in over them, right? So if it would have come down to them in Texas, I feel like they would have gone, well, Texas is playing much better than them right now, and they have their own team. Even though Texas has a couple of key injuries, if Oregon would have somehow beat... Not somehow, they have a very winnable game for them. If they would have beat Washington in the Pac-12 title game, then I still think if it was between Oregon and Florida State that they would have said, hey, Oregon has their whole team, or Highman trophy, all of that stuff. Essentially, when they lost their quarterback, their season was over. I just can't think of another sport where you don't get to go on and prove that you can win with what you still have. Last thing I'll say about that is this has happened before. Ohio State lost their quarterback back in the day, still was able to beat Bramble with their third-generation quarterback. Different team, different talent at quarterback, but I still think it's fucked up the way they did them.

Us and the sports movie version of it is the guy who replaces the injured quarterback comes in, nobody thinks they should be in the final four, and then they end up winning anyway.

That's probably not going to happen here, but.

It's definitely not happening here. I'm just saying on paper, that's how they would have written the sports movie.

Also, I want people to look at it like this, Roadmaker, the guy that they have backing up, Travis, right? He didn't look great when they had him in. He got concussed. He didn't even play in the last game. They had the third-string guy playing. It was just also bad for them that their game was on right after the SEC Championship game. Which was really high level. Which was really good, really high level. Then you have a guy passed for 50 some miles yards. It just looks bad. The eye test, it looks terrible. But I want people to think about the fact that you're talking about a quarterback that was taking second team reps the entire season, Rotomaker, right? Wasn't working out with the number ones. What you saw from him would have probably been different if he had an extra three weeks. How many of her practices they get between now and January first to work out with the ones, to have the coaches really coach him up to go in there and be their starter, to game plan around strengths and weaknesses, it would have been different. It would have been a completely different thing.

So you really don't know. You know what I'm saying?

So you would have bumped out Alabama.

I'd have put Florida State in the 14th playoff.

Then Georgia, if they had beat Alabama yesterday, what seed would they have been?

Probably won.

That's crazy. The college football I grew up with was we voted for it at the end of the year, which was 100 times stupider. And then next year it's changing, right?

Next year I think it goes to a 12-team playoff. I think it's.

Either 12- So we went from not quite enough teams to too many teams. 12 is stupid. Basically, your whole life is just playing for this football team. You're supposed to be in college.

I mean, LSU right now is 13th in the college football playoff rankings, right?

So you would have been on.

The bubble? In the 12th team playoff, we would have been maybe right there, maybe so close.

With a quarterback coming on. With a quarterback coming on. We might be at a Pat's uniform next year.

Yeah, exactly. Maybe maybe you guys would be lucky to have him. He's the most dynamic player in college football.

As you know, I'm all about charisma and do your teammates like you. And those are the only things I care about at this point. We were watching channel BBC, the postgame show before the Sunday Night. Channel BBC, yes. Channel BBC, whatever channel that is. And they've shown Minshu celebrating the Coltswin and doing all his locker room stuff with the teammates. Sounds like that's- You like that? That's what I want. I want to figure out a way to work that into the combine, how the guy got along with the offensive line and the secondary.

You know what's funny about Jaden Daniels? When he left, there was so much smoke around him leaving Arizona State because when he left Arizona State, there was talk there that his teammates didn't like him and they wanted him to leave. Since he's gotten to LSU, whatever kicks in when these guys get some new scenery, beloved by his teammates.

What was the draft day? What was the guy's name? The quarterback?

Oh, I can't remember. I like to talk about the Kevin.

Costar movie.

Bo, Bo Callaghan. And nobody came to his party.

Nobody came to his birthday party, allegedly. But that was the smartest part of the movie. He was like, The quarterback is the leader. We certainly with The Patriots, we've had the opposite.

Nobody liked Max Joe? Nobody likes.

Max- I don't think people like him now. I think when he came in, people liked him. He seemed like he was popular in Alabama, but I think-.

Well, I.

Will say this- You keep throwing PIC 6s.

There's no such thing as a quarterback. The quarterback has so much control over the game. There's no such thing as a lovable, inept quarterback. No. You have to go out there and execute or guys who are busting their ass on defense and all that other stuff getting open, they're going to be like, We can't fucking win with this guy.

Well, that's the Patriots thing right now where they have this defense that's done this historic, least amount of points led up by a defense that's lost all the games. They must be like, What? They gave them six points today.

Let me ask you this. Since you're not big on college football.

How do you- It's not my fault.

I've come to terms with it.

I grew up in an area where other than when Doug Fleutty was good on BC for a couple of years, we didn't have it. It was all pro sports.

It's like the College of Waterball people here at the Wringer is me, Rosilloow, and fucking Jomi. You know what I mean? I'm sure there are others, but I haven't really connected to them. How do you get in the know on who you want your team to draft? Is this combined? When does it start for you?

Well, I've never been in this situation with the Pats for the last 20 years. I remember the blood so season when it seemed like we were going to get one of the top two picks. And I remember blood so I had this game in the snow that I feel like I've watched it, but he had through this great pass for the go ahead touchdown, and it just seemed like he had it. It was like, Man, if we could get this guy, we had never had a really good quarterback in my entire life. So I was really focused on that. But it was pre-internet. It was only so much read sports illustrated, watched a couple of TV shows. Now it's gotten so advanced. I've never had an important pic like this with all the things we have at our disposal now, like the draft guides and YouTube clips. So I'm going to get into it. But I'm never going to understand as much as some of the people that live and breathe it.

It's all the fucking.

Crapshoot, though. Also, it really seems like it matters where you land because everybody I know who loves college football, who opinion I respected, they all really like Bryce Young. You liked him? Rosillo liked him? Sarudy? Everyone was like, This guy is going to be a really good pro. He has it.

I'm not ready to write Bryce Young off just yet. Obviously, the CJ Strauss.

Situation- We watched him today. He was- It was bad. -so bad down the stretch.

I'm not ready to write him off. The thing that you were judging Bryce Young on was obviously there were some physical disadvantages. He's not the biggest guy in the world. The accuracy was incredible. He could make all the throws, but his poise was just otherworldly. You were just completely confident that he was going to make the right play. And at this point, there's just none of that. We watched him the day and.

He panicked. He panicked a few times. He had a third one and a fourth one, and he just botched it.

I won't say this, though. I want people to understand. I know everyone wants to see flashes of what somebody can be really early, but think about it. Payton Manning, his.

First year. 1:15 or something like that. Whatever, set a.

Record for interceptions. Sometimes it takes guys... The CJ Strauss thing is really remarkable. It's really remarkable how well he's doing because you just don't see that from rookie quarterbacks that often. You see flashes. There are guys that are good, but guys that come right in and like, that guy is almost in the fucking MVP conversation.

The part I don't get that I just cannot, and I've talked to so many people about it in my life about what happened to Mac Jones. Kevin Wilde was here today and we were talking about it. He's a big Patz fan. Mac Jones was good in 2021. For a rookie, he passed a lot of the checkpoints you would have wanted from your QB. He had poise. He made good decisions. He really felt like he was maximizing what he could do, and I trusted him. Within two years, he's completely unplayable. It's this position that I don't think there's another position in any sport, maybe baseball closers. And maybe this happens with hockey-goers, but where if you lose your confidence, you're done. If you can't come back. We were talking about there was a couple of plays he had last week where it just looked like a guy who was so terrified to make a mistake that it actually made it worse. That's when you make... It was like watching when you get mad at your dog and your dog is just looking at you terrified, the body language was gone with him. I don't know how you lose that in two years.

You say, get mad at the dog. Is there something I need to know? Do I need to call the ASPC?

When the dog takes a shit in the living room, I'm going to have- How.

Do you respond to it, man? What I need to know? You know what a dog?

There might be.

Some yelling. Everyone that knows me knows- You're.

Not a dog, Yeller.

I'm not a dog Yeller. Whatever the dog does-.

You're a trophy generation dog owner.

Yeah, it's just more love. It's just, hey, you little angel.

I'm sorry you shit all over everything.

That was such a great dump. What a great- I can't believe I'm picking up the rug. -picking up the rug. Yeah, boy.

Yeah. I'm so honored. Can you rate the quarterbacks for me? Because you watch college football every Saturday for 11 to 12 hours a day. Yes. So your favorites, just based on coming into the pros, how you think they're going to do.

What's your list? Okay. Of the guys that are going to be available, you're going to have... So it's Caleb, it's Drake May, it's Jaden Daniels. Pennex. Pennex. Okay, so this is what I would say.

And Deion's kid?

He's not. He's coming back.

He's definitely come back?

Yeah, he's coming back. And then you have Bo Nicks, who is out of eligibility after 15 years.

But I don't think- Yeah, Bo Nicks. He comes in as a veteran. Yeah, I don't think- He's a rookie veteran, age 28. I don't.

Think a lot of people are looking for Bo Nicks to make a big splash in the pros. This is what I would say. Just based off what you see in college, it's going to be hard to pass up Caleb Williams first.

What are Caleb Williams concerns? I know you watched a lot of USC football.

There are some red flags with me with Caleb Williams. There's a hero ball situation there. And look, it could be the.

Situation- What does that mean for a quarterback?

Okay, so.

How does a quarterback have a hero ball situation?

They asked him to do a whole lot.

Yeah.

And because they asked him to do a whole lot, it's not necessarily... It might not necessarily be Caleb Williams' fault. Because they asked him to do a whole lot, it seemed like sometimes Caleb Williams was trying to make the home run play every single time. It seems like a lot of times when there were simpler reads to make or when there were other things that he could do that Caleb Williams was trying to do too much every time. And it might have been because they didn't have a great defense and there wasn't a ton of talent around him that he felt like he had to do that. Jomi and I were watching a game one time, and I told you this before, and it was like a double overtime game. They were running the zone read with him, and he was pulling it every single time. He felt like he had to do it himself. When I was watching the game with Jomi, and I go, if he would have given that, the back would have walked in. If he actually reads it, the guy is going to score. But it just felt like sometimes Caleb was pressing a little bit.

And as the year went on, you start to see in games like in the Notre Dame game and other games like that, when he needed to probably read a little bit more, take what the defense was giving him a little bit more and not try to make the home run play every time that he turned the ball over a little bit. That's not to say that he's not a Slam dunk shoe in prospect. It's just to say that there are some things there that you might have to coach out of him.

Drake May- Who would you compare him to?

Patrick Mohones. I mean, that's an easy comparison. Yeah, but look, here's the thing about Patrick Mohones that people have to understand. Patrick Mohones is at Texas Tech, and I remember watching him. We played them in the Texas Bowl one year for that whole team and all of those guys were there. We played them and I'm like, This guy, Patrick my homes, always looks so amazing when you watch him. What people couldn't really guess about my homes was the cerebral part of the game that he was so far advanced and ahead of. He really took to the pro game in a real way. Now, that's not to say that he didn't have the head for.

The game at all. This is with the Brock purity thing. The process. This is with the Brock purdy thing.

Theprocessing. He makes the spectacular play, but he's also reading presnap. He's reading all of the things. He's looking at it. I don't think a lot of people could see that it was all about his physical gifts.

A lot of- Like he's throwing sidearm and- He's throwing sidearm, all of that stuff.

But that's a pocket quarterback that knows where his reads are and where his advantages are. A lot of that also probably has to do with the fact that he gets drafted to a spot where one of the greatest offensive coaches of all time is, right?

He's getting- He gets to sit for a year.

He gets to sit for a year. So all of this stuff matters.

So you don't think Caleb Williams coming to a 72 year old head coach with no weapons?

With Bill O'Brien as.

His.

Offensive line. I don't know that's like.

A great.

Place for him to be. But he's great. Drake May is great. Drake May has all of the tangibles there.

Who does he remind you of?

That's interesting. I'd have to think about that. I have to think about that. But if you're looking at who Drake May reminds you of, it's a solid quarterback who can make all the throws, who's heading maybe like a Justin Herbert a little bit. Not quite as big.

I take Justin Herbert.

Not quite as big or as.

Like a Justin Herbert who actually comes through in the fourth quarter?

Here's the thing about Drake May, though. The thing about Drake May is that he doesn't, from what I've seen, he hasn't played in a lot of huge games.

Yeah. There's the Trabiski piece, too, that makes me nervous. Right. He hasn't played- The Ghost of Trabiski, because Trabiski was North Carolina, too. Right. I don't like.

That piece. Hasn't played a lot of huge games.

And then your guy you love.

Jaden Daniels. Jaden Daniels has come so far, and I think the knock on him before was what he could do from the pocket. When he gets moving, he's electric in the way that he moves. He gets his top end speed very fast, but not just that, like a very decisive and elusive runner. He fits into spaces and moves around. It's very tough.

Who's he reminding you of?

Lamar Jackson. But- Oh, no. -but, except for one thing.

He's.

Displayed to me a competence from the pocket this year, like standing in, particularly the last time we saw him against Texas A&M. Some of the throws that he was making, these are throws, very tight windows outside of the hashes, maybe even some poison in the pocket that you didn't see from Lamar Jackson at Louisville. I really do think he has a chance to be a good pro. But physically, he's a slight guy. You're going to want to see him get put a little weight on and adapt to the pro game. Michael Pennix just drops it in there. Michael Pennix is like-.

He just wins.

-a hyper accurate quarterback. Big, great stature, hyper accurate guy like a bigger Russell Wilson.

I know nothing, and I actually watched more college football than usual this year. I was surprised to find out that he wasn't as highly regarded as the other guys as a draft prospect.

Michael Pennox?

Because just watching on the TVs, it seemed like he had everything the other guys had. But I know he's got some-.

Has had a lot of.

Injuries, man. Yeah, is that what it is?

Yeah. A pretty checkered injury history is actually awesome to me that he's been able to succeed in the way that he has. I say Russell Wilson, but almost more like a Drew Breaks, like a bigger Drew Breaks. He's just super accurate, decent athlete. You know what I mean? He's not going to run or take off or anything like that, but he's just had a lot of injuries and pros obviously don't.

Like that. So if my paths get one of the first two, I'm good.

Drake May or Kayla Williams, you'll be good. Okay, good. But you guys want to really figure out what system you all are ready.

We got a lot to figure out. Last thing, the last time you came on the pod to talk college football, we talked about Deion. It was the height of Deion. It was like Apex Deion content week. What's next? What college is going to go to the Save after this? He's going to parlay. And since then, it went in the tank and then some. And somehow he's the sportsman of the year for sports. It's a really strong month for sports illustrated, by the way, with the AI stuff and that sportsman of the year pick. But it just went completely sideways. They've gotten worse every week. Their head recruiter left. I don't know what's happened, but could you see this? When did you realize something was really wrong with this team?

Really, it was in the Colorado State game because they come out of the gate and they beat TCU, then they take care of business against Nebraska. During the Colorado State game, we get into overtime. The whole world is watching the game. I'm like, Are these guys any good? I'm not talking about Colorado. I'm talking about Colorado State.

They were crossing routes that were there open for state every single time. They were making some of state's players look like they were NFL prospects. It was just... It was weird. I was like, Okay, well, Dion is not working with very much there in Colorado. It might be a longer season than we thought. Here's the thing in being fair, and I want to just be honest about something. A lot of people are getting frustrated because they feel like Prime is getting a blank check to do whatever and not have anyone be critical of him. It's just very difficult to be critical of Dion.

He's the most media-friendly coach we've.

Had in a long time. Not only that, but I've been looking up to Dionne Sanders since I was 11 years old in every single way. Whatever he did, it was cool. The ultimate competitor, Swag, he just always won. But you have to be realistic about something. Everyone's saying that Colorado is better off this year, right? They won more games. They won one game last year. They won four games this year. That's an improvement. That's true. The program is better off. The program improved. This team got worse and worse and worse throughout the year until they eventually quit.

Yeah.

And that's a fact. And the reason why it happened is because they didn't have what they needed in the trenches. Their quarterback was getting brutalized. The scheme that was being run there did him no favors. Shadur would hold the ball a little bit. Then the dysfunction that was around the team, if we just look at other stuff, they got robbed. Dion is the only college football coach that they've been robbed wherever they went, they got, I guess, robbed to Jackson State. They got robbed here by the recruits. It's just there's a lot of dysfunction that's followed it, the decommitments, the fact that they lost a tight ends coach who was one of the best recruiters in the entire country, all of this stuff, the fact that Dion, it's fair and unfair. It's fair that you would have expectations of someone who has such high expectations of themselves. But it's unfair that people aren't giving Dion the opportunity to learn on the job as a coach. I told you before, nick Saban lost. I think it was his first year. It was Monroe or something like that. His first year as Alabama's coach. So you have to improve and get better at the place that you're at.

But the reality is, Colorado right now is in the fucking shitter. It is. It's in a worse situation right now than they were at the beginning of this season. And normally the way you judge a college football season than the job that a coach did is how the team improves throughout the year. This team didn't get any better. They didn't. Now, if you want to say, hey, they just didn't have the horses to do it, well, fine. But part of coaching the team is coaching the guys up and figuring out some way that they can be successful. And it didn't happen here. And that plus the fact, the demotion of the office of coordinator, all of this other stuff, Dion calling out his.

Mind- We're calling out the players is the big thing. -all of that.

-that never works. -calling out people, all of that stuff is just you can tell that there's still things that he has to learn. He'll get it right, it'll be fine. But it is aggravating for me to watch the fact that no one keeps it real when they're talking about him or to him. Like, no one. Watching him in these postgame press conferences is so awesome because he is kicking the media's fucking ass. They are so scared of him. Nobody could even ask Coach, Dian, come out and be like, Okay, well, we improved the ball. We improved running the ball. We ran the ball for 81 yards on 37 carries. That's an improvement over last week where it was 79 yards. So we did that a little bit better. Nobody goes, Hey, the running game sucks, and it's actually not getting any better, Coach. What do you have to do to run the ball better? He's not going to get better unless there's some accountability for the way things are run in Colorado. So the best thing you can do if you want Colorado to succeed is to talk about Dionne in Colorado in an honest way.

And everyone knows they're going to be successful. Prime does not fail. This season to me was not a.

Successful season. It seemed like it failed this year.

It wasn't a successful season. It wasn't. It wasn't. It wasn't a successful season. It was progress from where they were before. But overall, things got so bad towards the end, you can't say they were a success this year.

Is it possible that maybe he's better off with the smaller program being the big fish in the small pond where you can use some of your celebrity charm and all that. But maybe when you're actually battling like the teams they have to battle when you're at the high div one, maybe that's not going to happen for him.

In the immediate, it's going to be easier for you to bring in Travis Hunter and Shidur and Shiloh and guys like that and win at a place like Jackson State because the discrepancy between the athletic talent between the guys are going to be so great, right? What I would say is it would be very difficult for me to believe- Look at.

You measuring your thoughts. This is so interesting. No, I'm just- Because Deion Sanders things like a third rail.

I'm just being honest. I'm trying to be real about it. What I would say is this, I can't see him failing in the long term. The question you're asking me is, is it possible that the job is too big for him? I don't think anything is too big for Deion Sanders. However, I do think that they were a little bit in over their head this year.

The only reason I asked was because it felt like one of those, and we see this with college especially, where it just seems like the snowball rolling down the hill where one thing goes wrong, the next thing goes wrong. And usually there's no coming back from a season like that. Usually the coach gets fired or all these changes happen. From where we were, the first day were three in a row?

They were three and they were ranked.

In that Oregon game and then all of a sudden it was probably Red Flag. They were like 20 point underdogs or whatever it was.

Let me tell you what Oregon did. Last thing I'll say, everybody was trying to win the press conferences. The other saying is you can't win a press conference.

You.

Can't. If it's going to be about press conference or being in front of a kid or something like that, Deion Sanders is going to win every time. Everybody talked about what Dan Lenning said. No one talked about what Dan Lenning did. What Dan Lanning did was he showed any recruit anywhere that if you want to come to Colorado, so for a little while you're going to have to get your head fucking beat in. Not only are you going to get your head fucking beat in, but because it's Colorado, everybody's going to see.

You're.

Not going to be able to hide the games. It's not going to be like, oh, while you were sleeping, Colorado fucking got dusted off by Arizona. No, no, no. Everyone is going to watch every single snap. When you're getting fucked over, the whole world is going to see it. Dan Laney put that out there. Everybody else took the blueprint. They didn't get blown out a lot, but whatever happens is going to be scrutiny on you. And if you're not winning for that, it's tough for kids.

I thought it was so much fun. It was such a bummer that it turned out the way it did.

You were.

So into it. I really was, because I hate college football and I love that somebody came in and flipped it on its head and made people so mad. That was great.

What I like is just having him around. I like everything is better with Prime. Everything is better. I liked the party that was going on down there. I liked the fact that so many people were interested. My mom, who is just only in the batch for LSU, was like, Prime got them boys going. Then three weeks later, it was like a fucking funeral with everybody watching them have to lose. The glitz and the glamor is one thing, but there hasn't been a college football coach that has ever succeeded that wasn't detail and process oriented. I think he's still learning that at the Power of Five level. But once he does learn it, everything else that he brings is going to be tough to beat, which is going.

To see how long it takes. I remember when Steve Sperger got the, what was it? The Redskins job?

Yeah.

And it was just a disaster. And one of the things that came out was basically he worked from eight to four.

It was like, I'm out.

Because.

It was in college. It was seven, eight hour days, and that's it. And then the pros, it's like, No, these guys sleep on the couch at night because they don't even have time to go home. And he was like, I'm out. And the team just completely fell apart, went sideways. But you see that sometimes when the college guys go to the pros. I think this happened with Reverend Meyer, where it's just that the pace you have to work professionally is a whole other level than some of the college programs. And I wonder what Dionnebut we'll see if he can... The celebrity of being the coach of that team seemed like part of the job, and maybe that doesn't work that way. Well, if you're going to be a high level college football program, you can also have the celebrity element the way they did maybe.

I'll say this. People talk about how Dion rubbed people the wrong way at Colorado. He rubbed them the wrong way when he was in the Swak 2.

It was.

The same thing. It's not so much a shake up. And College football is a good old boys club. Don't get me wrong, it is. But when they were talking about... Eddie Robinson, the coach, I think of Alabama State, talked about the fact that Dion ain't slack. They were talking about what they know their tradition to be, what they know their process to be what they know their football establishment to be over decades. They were saying, This guy is coming in. He's not a part of that. He's trying to do it all new different ways, and you can't do it that way. So wherever he goes, he's going to have to run up against this, against that. But what I would say is this year, the way they were doing it just didn't work. It did work not just because they didn't have the horses. I think that team is better than a 4 and a 8 team. I do. I think they're better than a 4 and a 8 team.

So you wouldn't have made them sportsmen of the year.

No, I think that's a joke. But look, if we're talking about a cultural, if we're talking about...

Mine is Emea Doke. I voted for him to talk back to LeBron.

Fumbler of the year. Fumbled Neil Long, man.

I like that he just went at LeBron. It was the first time anyone's done it.

Oh, he didn't go at LeBron. He went at the player.

The player, LeBron.

I know, but he didn't even mention in my name. He was like, me and the player got into it. It may have was son and LeBron like a motherfucker. He was like- It was great stuff. -caught between me and the player.

I really miss that guy who's self the coach. I know I had to go. The way he treated them the first month, he would get so mad at them and it was just great. They actually really listened to him, respected him and didn't fuck around with him.

Before I get out of here, let me ask you something on him, because I asked you this before we didn't get a chance to talk about it. Houston is, they've come back down to Earth a little bit, but at the.

Same time- But they came with, they still have a won on the road.

They still have a won on the road. There's zero road wins. I know, but there's a snap and energy.

They have something.

There's something. What is it with him that gets guys going? What makes it such a good coach? Because I'm watching them, they're playing more competitively. Jaylen Green is playing inside of his game. Man, St. Gwen is fucking dominating Anthony Davis and all of this stuff. What is it about him that makes guys play for him so hard?

I think he's actually just a badass. I think he's just a really tough guy, old school, treats the dudes like men, makes eye contact with you, holds you accountable. If he doesn't like shit you do, he'll pull you out. He'll yell at you. I went to Celtic Games. He would do a 180, Jaylen Brown would take a 25'3, and he would do a 180, Jalen Brown would take a 25'3. And he would do a 180 and turn toward the crowd and be like, What the fuck are we doing? He's just one of those old school coaches that is out of a sports movie.

I.

Think you said that Houston team, bunch of young guys have never won anything except for Vanvleet, Brooks made won a playoff series. I was like, This is how we're going to play. And if you don't want to play that way, you're not going to get minutes for me. And if you act like a shithead on the court, I'm going to take you out.

Yeah, take you out. He might.

Fucking take your wife out. So when he starts with LeBron...

You just never know. You never know what the penalty could be for you might come home and you might not have a fucking family.

Oh, my God. Well, so he goes at LeBron. Right. And it's not about LeBron. It's about he's trying to show his team. I'm not afraid of this guy. I know you guys all revere him. You all grew up with LeBron posters and you had his shoes, and it's an honor to play him and you want to get a photo op with him after. But fuck this guy. He's trying to beat us. I'm going to stand up to him and I'm going to talk to him like we're peers.

Because.

We are.

Because we are.

He's going to try to big boy me and come over here. I'm like, Fuck this guy and go right back at him.

People don't do that with LeBron. Then your team is going to see that and then they're going to be like, Wait.

Wait. Why isn't our coach.

Afraid of LeBron? Yeah, I belong on this court with him, too. We're in the same NBA and before you know it, you're.

Fucking competing. Do you see how discombobulated LeBron got from that, too? He was like, Wait a second, this guy's eyeballing me? What's going on?

I don't think LeBron backed down.

He didn't back down, but he was surprised. I liked it. I don't think that one's over either.

I don't think it's over at all. When I looked at it, I think the way Emma was looking at him, he was looking at him with a look. He was looking through him. I think that, more than anything, was like, shit. Because he was standing... He was standing in his ground like, oh, what?

It wasn't just to stand the ground. It was a what are you going to do? Taking the little ground. What are you going to do? What are you going to do? Right. Was to look. Before we go, can you make the case for the town over Heat?

Oh, real quick. I don't know you guys are going to hate me. You guys don't.

You guys love to be- Well, you know I love the town. Come on.

So this is my thing. Heat is more majestic than the town. It is. It's a more majestic movie. It's got higher levels than the town. Pacino, De Niro, Kilmer, Michael, all of that stuff, right?

Wayne Grove.

Wayne Grove. Shout out to Wayne Grove, man. Shout out to Wayne Grove. Shout out to the whole fucking crew. Michael T. Williamson, everybody. Great. The town is a stickier story. And the reason why it's a stickier story is because it's this heist story that is, to me, woven around interpersonal relationships, trauma and dynamics between actual characters. Heat is more like happening around the people. There's not very many emotions that are really in the movie. There's emotional stuff happening between Sheherlas and his wife and all of that. But the town, it's like you have people that are dealing with trauma from their mothers and their fathers. Then you have love, you have all of this stuff, and it's central.

To the movie. I gave your mother a taste.

I gave your mother a taste. Put her on the chemical, the chemical inside or whatever the fuck that guy was talking about. That guy was awesome. Then even with Jeremy Renner's character with Jim and Ben Affleck, it's really about their loyalty to one another and how far you're willing to go for your friend who you know.

Is fucked up. Whose guy are we going to take?

Whose guy are we going to take? All of that stuff. So to me, when I think about watching a movie that has all the cool shit as well, but also at the end, you're so happy and so invested into the characters. I go with the town, man. I mean.

Heat was the foundational movie for The Rewatchables and the reason we created it. That is one of my favorite movies of all time. The town probably you could make a case pound for pound as more rewatchable because it's shorter. You can jump in at any time. It doesn't veer off to the side like we were talking about. There's that Wayne Groe hook or subplot. There's Natalie Portman in the bathtub. We got to go through that whole thing. There's a couple of Pacino and his wife who hate some scenes that the town is just cruising. There's no dead time at all. Even like the John Hams and Sully's scenes with, what's her face? Blake Lavley's character. Yeah. Shane's mother.

Shane's mother. She pissed me off, though. I hate those fucking movies. I hate characters like that, characters that fuck up everything, like Paulie from Rocky 5. All you all watch Rocky 5.

From every Rocky. What do you mean? Just Rocky 5?

Okay, so.

This is what I'm saying. Paulie did lose sight of the lens. Are you auditing for the Rocky 5 rewatchables.

Right now? What I'm telling you is that all of you all, that's how I can tell that you all really had to struggle in your lives that are listening to this. This is one thing for Rocky to get his fucking head beat.

In by.

The Russian. Then living in the fucking mansion with the fucking robot. I can't get over the fact that Paulie lost all of this motherfucker's money on some dumb shit. Then this is why I fucking got to go back living by Meek Mill in Philly. The whole situation is fucked. That's so fucked to me. And Shane, the fact that she got the whole crew killed. When they put stuff like that in movies, it always fucks with me really bad. When one.

Person fucks up the whole fucking thing. This should be a good podcast. Each episode is about a character who just fucked things up for everybody.

Bro, it happens. It's like, how can I... Every time I watch the movie, I'm like, she ratted them out. Got everybody killed. The big, jolly fat motherfucker who went out and got rolled to his death, my man got shot. Jim got shot. He took a drink of Coke. His only pleasure before he died was a fucking Coke for some random ass fast-food joint in Boston somewhere.

All because- And it was warm. Who's the Sopranos episode for you? Fuck things up for everybody.

That's a good question. But see, Tony never really took a L like that.

It's probably Jackie April Jr.

No, but he only really fucked himself.

He blew the April dynasty.

He blew the April dynasty. He got a lot of people killed. But I'm trying to think of who fucked up in the Sopranos that really got everybody killed.

Oh, Joey Pance's character.

Ralphie?

He started a lot of shit. He did. Oh, Buscemi. Buscemi's character.

Buscemi.

He had to go.

Orlando and the Wire, he fucked up. A lot of people fuck up and ruin everything. You know what I'm saying? For her, whenever I watched the movie, I start cringing, knowing that she's going to rat out the whole crew.

But nobody's worse than Pauley.

No, Pauley.

Bro, Rocky won disaster.

Let me tell you how I look at this. Rocky ended up getting sick. His wife died. What if they didn't have no medical insurance, bro? What if all of this carnage that they went through was because he fought for that many years, that many rounds?

Do we blame Rocky at all, though, for being like, What do I do with all my money? Oh, Pauley's got a guy, my alcohol brother-in-law who's been a complete fuck up this entire series, except for when we went to Russia and I just had a two-person corner and for some reason, Paulie became my cut man.

That's a.

Good question. Other than that, Paulie has no wins for the entire series.

The question would be why is Paulie handling the money? Actually, if you think about that too much, that's a huge plot hole. Because by the time you get.

To Beverly. Huge plot hole. Would you give Paulie like $100 to go buy anything? Would you trust him with a.

Postmaid's order? I will say this, Rocky is still like the heavyweight champion, right? They're living in Philly, I get it. But he's still one of the most famous guys in the world. So you think that-.

I would say by the time Rocky 4 is happening, he's probably the most famous athlete in the world.

Right, so-.

He's more famous than any basketball player, any football player, any baseball player.

So Rockies can't get a job with HBO Boxing. Rocky can't get a job with Hblo Boxing. Rocky can't... Get a job, call and fight. He can't go sell his autographs, nothing like that. Rocky's got to go back and.

Work in a whole trip. But you stand by Rocky 5, though. What? You like Rocky Five.

Yeah, go for it. You like that song?

Rocky 5 is not bad. It'sme, now that I have 35 years of distance, when it pops out, I'm like, all right, he's going to fight Tommy Morris. I'll watch this part.

Tommy Gunn just fucking turns on Rocky for no reason. He doesn't even care that Rocky has a son.

Well, I like that he turns on him because the newspapers are like, Rocky's puppet wins again. That's the reason. What newspaper headline would be, Rocky's puppet wins three round knockout.

They actually had a cartoon in the movie of Rocky's hand up Tommy's ass, like he was an actual puppet. Tommy couldn't fucking handle that.

I don't blame him.

I think he had to turn on Rocky. We were the best of a rock and five, man.

I'm happy to do it. We'll do it in 2024. That's the best. Well, we're doing Christmas vacation in a couple of weeks.

I love it.

It's going to be exciting. All right, Van Laythen, good to see you.

Peace.

All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Jonathan Kerman and Steve Saruddy. Thanks to Cousin Sal. Don't forget, new Rewatchable is coming on Monday, and I'll see you on this feed a little bit later this week, I think, on Tuesday. We'll see you.