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Draftkings Network.

This is the Dan Leviton Show with the Stugartz Podcast.

This man is impeccable at looking like flawless broadcasting. Yep. Yep. The hair, the chiseled face, the perfect teeth, the voice, and right behind him, the Joel Clatt show. How much did it cost to get that made? Where did you get that made? Tell me the entire backstory on how it is that you got shining over your shoulder, something that just celebrates your resplendent perfection in every broadcasting way.

Yeah, that's right. Well, first I thought to myself, What could be the most obnoxious thing to put right behind me? Then the light went off and I'm like, Perfect. How about a lighted sign with my name? Nothing screams humility like that. I started my podcast last year, and it was just in my office. My office was painted dark, and everybody on the team with my show kept being like, We need to lighten up your office. We need to lighten up. And we really need to have a sign of your show. And I was like, Oh, okay. So Fox builds a sign and they kept saying like, Yeah, we're going to redo your office and then put a sign up. They rolled this thing in and I'm like, What in the world is that? They're like, Oh, yeah, this is your lighted sign. I'm like, Okay, well, one, that's not obnoxious at all, but here we go.

It gives off great expertise. You are someone who knows this college football. You know your draft analysis. So let me begin here with a couple of questions. Caleb Williams did not meet with the press after their last loss. Usc is strange in their relationships with how it is that they're dealing with the media. And it's been an abysmal year that Lincoln Riley is saying there are three plays from having a lot more victories. But your opinion has moved at all on Drake May, Caleb Williams, and what there is at the top of this draft?

I think that two things can be true at once. I think you can be disappointed in the way that Caleb has handled the media at times, and even Lincoln at times, not making the players available, and at the same time say that it's not going to affect his draft stock, nor should it. He's going to have to learn that you're not allowed to just run away and not talk to the media at the next level. Ask Marshon Lynch how that went. So he's going to have to answer, and not only answer, but you're not answering for yourself at that point. At the next level, you become what the head coach is at the college level, which is the face of the organization. The face of the program, if you want to call it that. And so every single person in the organization is going to hang on every word that you say, and he's going to have to learn that. But when it comes down to just straight evaluation, Dan, this guy is still a uniquely talented player. I break it down this way. When I'm looking at a quarterback for the draft, there's really five categories that I'm trying to evaluate on.

One is your mind. Do you control the game with your mind? The other is your arm talent. Can you create plays outside of the pocket when things break down? Are you a threat with your legs as a runner? And then can you control the game from the pocket, changing speeds and doing all the things necessary? And I can honestly say that as I evaluate Caleb, I've never evaluated a quarterback coming into the draft where I could say he's elite in all five categories. There are guys that have been decent or good, but generally speaking, everybody has one category where they fall short, and he's one of the only guys that I can't say that about. I know that the comparison is always going to be to Patrick Mohomes, but it's certainly there. The fact that he is so dangerous once he's creating and the fact that he has shown now and proved that he can almost alone move a team up and down the field, he's still to me the best player in the drafts.

Can you explain to me why I have it wrong when I say that quarterback evaluation seems to really stink even among the experts?

Yeah, because I think what we don't take into consideration is the environment that they're going to go and be asked to perform in. It's the fit question. Generally speaking, these organizations that are at the top of the draft are there for a reason. And when you talk with guys in the League, and this is the dirty secret of it all, when you talk with guys who have played in the League and in particular that are done, they will tell you, almost every one of them, there's eight or nine teams at the beginning of the year that can actually win the Super Bowl. And it's not always just because of the roster or their quarterback, but it's because of the organization and the structure of the organization and the quality of the organization. And those teams don't select at the top of the draft, number one. And so what has to happen is that these players, they not only are taking a giant leap individually and trying to play their position, which is the hardest position at sports at a totally different level and at a more elite level, but they're having to do that in the midst of what you can call some brokenness and chaos.

They're being selected in that spot for a reason, and then they're being asked to be the catalyst to change it. And then ever increasing as we move forward in this society, they want it now, we want it now. And now CJ Straud has outsized expectations for the next crew. Now we feel like everybody that comes in who's the top five pick, you've got to be CJ Strowd. You can't struggle like Bryce Young. That's not allowed anymore. So it's the level of expectation. It's the brokenness of the organization that you go to. I think that's why. It's not always necessarily the evaluation. Look at me. Am I giving myself an out? I think that was. Guys, I think.

I just- It is. It's everyone else.

It's the broken team. It's everybody else. Well done by you. As I'm answering this, I'm like.

Hold on.

It's everybody else's fault.

Stop themselves. Amazing. Yeah, what a great- Who does that? So rare in the media for someone to.

Consider, Wait a minute. You still.

Look great, though. But when you do it, your hair still looks perfect.

That's right. That's right. The sign still is shining. Imagine that.

It's shining as your teeth.

Joel, we were discussing earlier today, Jordan Travis and that gruesome injury. I'm wondering how you feel about this. Should the committee factor the fact that he's not going to be there for the playoff? Should they factor that into their decision making as it relates to the playoffs?

They're supposed to. I hate this. Gosh, this game is so unforgiving. I hate this for this kid. I really was broken hearted because he's been through it. He's been through the low moments at Florida State, and he's put this team in a position to achieve at a level that they haven't achieved since James left and that they feel like they should be at. I was loving watching him play. Having said that, even with him on the field, there were some questions about their overall dominance. Even as an undefeated, I think that we can all say that that's fair with some of the performances that they've had in close games that they've had with teams that are not great. So here's what happens is that, yes, it does need to be factored from the committee, and there's already been a precedent of this. Think back to the first year of the playoff in 2014. Ohio State lost J. T. Barrett late in the season, and Cardell Jones had to come out. The reason that Ohio State made the playoff isn't just because of their record, Oh, they won the game. They hammered Wisconsin in that Big Ten Championship game.

I believe it was 59-nothing that they won that game. And it was because of that reason that the committee was like, Okay, yes, you are still a dominant enough team to go to the playoff. They got the fourth seed and they wound up winning the national championship. I think that the same is true for this Florida State team. Now the pressure is on. They've got to go out there. And against a very average Florida team, I think that they've got to show that they can be dominant and they can play at the top end. If they just squeak by and it's really clear that they're not what they were before the injury, then I think that the committee is going to take that into consideration. And part of this also, guys, is that there's a lot of teams vying for that spot. Youknow, in that 14 year, Ohio State snuck in because it was bleak, if you want to call it that. There was a lot of chaos. This year, I don't think that that's going to be the case. There's going to be a lot of really good teams vying for that last spot.

How many SCC teams do you think are better than Ohio State and Michigan?

One and a third. I think Alabama is good. I think that Alabama, Michigan, and Ohio State are all probably similar in the fact that they are very good football teams with question marks and areas of their team that I would have questions about, whether they can play at the top end. I don't have those questions about Georgia right now. Georgia has won 28 straight games. They're clearly the best team in the country. They're marching towards a third national title. And in a lot of ways, they remind me a bit of what the Patriots did under Tom braided. The guy went to 10 Super Bowels. Why? Because everybody knew they had to deal with Tom at some point, and a lot of times in Foxborough. Georgia is starting to feel that way. Regardless of what goes on in September or even early October, you're going to have to deal with Georgia, and they're always going to be playing their best at the right time. From that standpoint, I would say Georgia is better. They don't have the questions that those other teams have. But I do still think Michigan and Ohio State are very good football teams.

We're headed into Michigan and Ohio State's biggest football game of the year. Almost quietly, Michigan dismissed a linebackers coach that it was reported had maybe taken a hand in destroying some evidence regarding the Connor Stale and stuff. Then Bruce feltman had reported that there's a chance that this Jim Harbaugh suspension bleeds into next season. Since then, Michigan has dropped the injunction that they were looking at. Has Michigan quietly folded this really public defense of theirs and decided that they're just going to swallow this one headed into this game against Ohio State?

I think it was very clear that there was some evidence presented by the Big Tana or the NCAA that made it incredibly obvious that they, one, weren't going to get the injunction. So they could go to court and lose publicly, which would have looked awful. And that evidence implicated some people on the staff. They said, Okay, rather than this publicly playing out and then us having to reactively fire someone or remove someone, let's pull the reins back a little bit here, and let's evaluate this with much more clear eyes. That's what they did. They took the suspension and they backed down. But I think that it was the evidence that was presented to them and saying, and the NCA and the Big Ten more specifically that said, Just so you know, on Friday before the judge, this is what we're going to give them. Michigan was like, Oh, well. How about we just do the three? Is the three good? Yeah, I think the three is good.

I.

Think it's hard to get Joel on stuff with college football, so I'm going to try and get him right now with something I believe he does not know. Were you aware, Joel, that Syracuse's quarterback this weekend was a perfect 14 for 14 for 59 yards?

I knew he was 14 for 14, but I did not know it was only for 59 yards. I saw the efficiency number and I was like, Oh, that's a good day, but 59, that's hard to do. I had a day, right?

14 or 14. I know related to Dino Babers.

Will not be retained. Yes. And then in further news, Dino Babers let go at Syracuse, and you wonder why. Boy, that's a lot of screen passes for one yard.

Love the sign, Joe. Love the work. Thank you for being there.

It should be bigger than.

The sign, I feel like. -it should be bigger. Yeah, that's right. I'm representing the sponsor right here, too, Hampton. I'm with Hampton. That's why I'm going around and doing these interviews. I would just say, Guys, I'm really thankful for them, their consistency. They make it easy to travel 100-plus nights a year. That consistency, I really rely on. I'm thankful that they give me this opportunity to come and talk college football with you guys.

That was an excellent promo that I forgot to do. The Joel Clad show, wherever it is, you get your podcast. Thank you, sir.

You bet. I appreciate it. See you guys.

Don Libertard. He needs a wheelbarrow like Mike McDaniel.

This dog.

He's got a pair?

Really? He's got.

A pair. Man, does he get a pair?

My.

Granddaughter sees.

His shlong and says, What are.

You.

Talking about?

And says, What's that? No, she doesn't. No, she did. There it is.

My granddaughter saw.

His shlong in.

The kitchen.

And she said, What.

Is that? What is this? Ai don't.

Have a clue. Why is he doing it in the kitchen? I said.

That's what he pees with. Okay. How else am I going to explain? Stugaz. It was a little extended. I don't know why.

He was so excited.

All right.

Very good. Baby.

No. Can I take this out? Can we believe? Can I take this out? But it is a baby. Anyway, he.

Ate my couch.

This is the Dan Levator Show with the Stugaz.

My 11th most interesting observation. That's right. From the NFL weekend, Stugats, combined with the Lions being eight and two for the first time since the 1960s, it's really been a remarkably shitty run for the Detroit Lions. It really has a lack of playoff victories.

It's the only fan base. Other fan bases complain, Oh, we haven't done it in this long. It's the only fan base that's a Jet fan that I will allow to share the same suffering as I do because they've shared the same kinds of suffering as I have over the last 40 years. The only fan base.

I mean, the Browns, too.

Interesting. Now, the Browns won to a bunch of AFC Championship Games with Bernie Cozar.

Yeah, but many of their fans aren't old enough to remember that stuff. I'm just saying.

The Lions have it worse than everybody. But in that game yesterday, Stugat, Chicago was up 26-21 with the ball, and Justin Fields had a third and nine. And I really do love that he decided to sling it 50 yards downfield on third and nine. They didn't get it by a yard. He was a yard long on the throw. But that on third and nine, 26, 21, the air is clearly leaking out of the balloon. You got to be careful. You were up 26, 14. Everybody was watching that game thinking Detroit is going to come back because we know the bears are bad. On third and nine, I do love that Justin Fields decided to go deep. Unfortunately, he may be replaced by Caleb Williams next year.

Or may not. I don't know.

Yeah, we don't know. We don't know. That's true. But they're going to have a choice to make at the top of the draft whether they want the quarterback they have or whether they want a new quarterback. The one they have ran for more than 100 yards yesterday was dancing after one of the runs because he played pretty well. I just love the attitude, Stugato, No, I'm not going slant here. I'm not going down and out. Nope. I believe in myself and my ability to make the throw that he made earlier in the game to DJ Moore, a ridiculous throw that he made earlier in the game, and he missed it by a yard. But that game was very close to the Detroit Lions not having the eight and two record for the first time since the 1960s.

Mike, it is going to be interesting. It was a good loss for the bears because they have Carolina's pick. They also have their own picks. They'll have two of the top four or five picks in the NFL draft. Fields the last three games has been before the injury had two great games. Eight touchdowns, one interception. Yesterday at Detroit was really good, and it's a good quarterback class. This is going to be interesting to see what they do with those two picks.

Well, they could possibly get something for Fields, too, who's got to put out some tape there because I think you've shown at his best that he's certainly worthy of being a starting quarterback in the NFL. But the move is no matter how good Justin Fields looks outside of Patrick Mahom's neck, Redux, you have to reset the rookie wage scale clock and take one of these quarterbacks.

Mike Ryan was very worried yesterday for the first time about the general status of Jerry Jones because he is up there in age. He is fighting Stugart to win again, giant, the way that he did under Jimmy Johnson, and mortality at the same time. The man has everything from life and football that can possibly be had. However, since letting go of Jimmy Johnson in one of the pettiest disputes to ever wreck a champion, one of the most ego-soaked public insanity that you will ever find in leadership, you had Jimmy Johnson with a cowboys team that was dominant over everybody. And he and Jerry Jones were running the sport. And then Jimmy left because he couldn't get along with Jerry. And Jimmy has enjoyed the last 30 years of getting away from football, being retired, legitimately changing. I've told you this before. No adult I've ever met in my life, never mind sports, anybody I've ever met has changed more in old age than Jimmy Johnson did, going from loving football, being obsessed by it, being hugely cruel and mean to people in the name of leadership to making a gagging, vomiting sound when he talks about coaching a football team and what that requires of him.

He and Jerry Jones feuded, and he was saying, Jimmy was, that Jerry Jones, he did not believe, would put him in the Dallas Ring of Honor while Jimmy was still alive. He was saying, That will not happen while I'm still alive. But yesterday, they announced finally, Jerry Jones, while playing in Carolina, Dallas dragged Carolina, even though Frank Reich is now taking over playcalling responsibilities. And here is the-.

It doesn't matter. He took the wrong quarterback.

Here is the awkward exchange between Jerry Jones, Jimmy Johnson, and what has been a historically petty thing. But I will say this. It was magical the time we had together. I want you to know something. On December the 30th of 1923, you're going in the Dallas.

Cowboy ring of the box.

That's.

Texas.

I hope it's 2023.

What did I say?

19… Well, it is 2023. I know you want to get this real clear. Three weeks from now.

I feel like Jimmy's just got to let that one slide. -right, it's.

Just working his way up.

-just calling him that. -he can't let 1923 slide.

-one last bar before we're public.

-he's working.

His way out of.

The ring of honor. -he can't be 1923. He loves that, right? He loves that mistake. Jimmy loved that mistake.

Jimmy loved correcting Jerry. You have to put me in the ring of honor like that. At 80 years old, I don't think Jimmy is going to get a lot more public joys than the one of, Yeah, you're putting me in the ring of honor before I'm dead, you have to. Also, it's not 100 years ago. It's not 1923. Let me correct you in front of a national audience. Even though I didn't think you'd put me in there until 21, 23, you got to put me in right now. Is that Jerry.

Just feeling the moment of that and getting.

Nervous, or is it just old age? Both. Yes. Because he actually did seem nervous. You don't really see Jerry like that a lot. They don't like each other.

-this is-It seems like.

They do now, no?

No. He's bowing to the public.

Saying it should be done? Why would.

Jerry give in if they have... They seem to be...

No?

No.

Okay.

No.

No.

Nope.

But what reason does Jerry have.

To give into him? Nope. Okay. Nope. Maybe just a little-No.

No.

This is a pretty good endorsement for retiring to the keys as opposed to doing whatever the hell Jerry Jones has been doing over the last 30 years. Because they're the same age. They are? They're one is 81 and one is 80. One's been living Texas big, and the other guy has just been relaxing in the keys.

It's that McDonald's breakfast.

That extra salty McGriddle.

I think the difference between them is that one of them is Jimmy Johnson, and the other one had Jimmy Johnson 30 years ago and has been ravaged by football since.

Yeah, that one with Barry Switzer did not do much.

He said he could win with any one of 500 coaches. It's what ran Jimmy out of there.

He did.

And then he proved it by taking Jimmy's players and winning once with Barry Switzer. But Barry Switzer.

Ruined it all. Is Switzer in the ring? It'd be great if he put Switzer before Jimmy.

I don't think Barry Switzer is in the ring. But he hired Barry Switzer just to bother Jimmy. Watch this. And it's only because I can't hire Ronald McDonald to do it.

He essentially.

Changed it. It was to show Jimmy. Watch what I do with these players. And God Almighty, Troy Ackman and the rest of them hated Barry. Didn't Barry get caught in an airport with a gun? Wasn't he having lunch at strip clubs?

You say these things as if they.

Were bad. I'm just saying they weren't championship medal is all I'm saying. I'm not saying- What do you mean?

Lunch at a strip club. It has.

Nothing to do with that. -i'm not appreciating you editorializing here. That free buffet.

Buffets in general. I've heard. Put it on the pole at Levitard show. Do you love a buffet at Levitard show? I think the audience was offended because I told the audience that I felt like majority of them were Golden Corral people, but I don't mean that as a slight. I like a buffet. I'm a Golden Corral type of person, though I haven't been there in many years. I can eat gluten. A good buffet.

So much gluten. You're walking into the Golden Corral. You think.

Golden Corral has a gluten-free area?

No.

What an extra.

Gluten area, actually.

The chocolate fountains. We've got gluten here and extra gluten on the back.

The.

Chocolate fountains. Well, the chocolate... A fountain at, I believe that's dangerous at Golden Corral. I believe that is one place that you have to be careful.

Anywhere there's a fountain, I'm out of.

There because.

You don't know a lot of fingers being put into that thing and it's just getting recycled in. I don't like that.

Put it on the pole, please, at Levitar's show, JuJu, is the chocolate fountain at the Golden Corral a dangerous game? I've got to eat a peck of dirt before you die. Who was your aunt who said that? My Nana. My dad, mom.

Always said that. I'm not telling you to do that. A peck, much bigger than it sounds. A peck is like a full sack. Yeah, it is.

A full sack.

No, it is. He's right. A peck sounds like a peck, like a tiny little bit. It's a big, big deal. It is. It's a full sack. Look it up.

Who is that?

Did Trump just come out of here? I have no idea. I was just trying to support Chris. I bailed on him earlier. I was feeling bad.

I know we're back. Stugart has a lot of the Trump cadence. More than anybody I've met in broadcasting, he has a lot of that poison. Not the overall ideals, but the cadence and the delivery.

Thank you.

Some of the ideals. Some of the ideals.

Did you ever think we'd see them make up?

Only some.

Did you ever think that we'd see Jimmy Johnson and Jerry Jones make up? No. As a '90s kid, and I don't know if this is actually the rivalry with such that I'm not sure it still doesn't have twists and turns in it. I hate taxes. But to see Jerry Jones on Fox NFL coverage and break the news to Jimmy Johnson and he's going to be inducting him into the Ring of Honor. It's a nice little closed loop for kids that grew up in the 90s.

I think he knew.

Though, right? I mean, he flew in for that.

Fox, the.

Pregame show.

Wasn't there. No, I'm sure he caught wind. Otherwise, why the hell am I in Carolina right now?

With loud music playing during this interview. He really doesn't want to leave the Keith for any reason.

Who would?

I love how Fox is like, No host here. Just you two. Go ahead. Yeah, good idea.

This won't be awkward at all. Two 80-year-olds go ahead and do live television. 19, 23. To be.

Honest, Jerry, he could have used one.

Who was calling the game? They could have just.

Brought that person over, right? Not to be morbid, but...

Chris Myers had to be.

Chris Myers. I mean, they're both in their 80s.

That's all the Carolina game.

He's the voice.

I'm not sure how much longer we've got to them. Yeah. I'm going to enjoy it while I got them. It is- I think they're going to die soon. Generally, I mean, on a long enough time- What are you doing? The odds are- Well, it's just I'm happy that they're getting this.

Resolution to it before- Yeah, I disagree with you. Put her on the pole, JuJu. Is Jerry Jones ever going to die? Don't live a tard. You are very comfortable talking about how you met your wife, how much you love her, how important she is to you. That's the reason that I asked the question. I've always admired that about you, that you have no problems whatsoever professing your love.

Well, the thing is I have a new wife now. Me and Bianca didn't make it.

So.

I moved on. We moved on. It was for the better for both of us.

Still got. Things just got a little awkward there, so let me be the first on this show to congratulate you on the new wife, Vince. Congratulations on feeling whole, feeling complete. Let's talk tailgating. Yeah.

Don't feel awkward, buddy.

I did. No, I don't. I mean, it's too late.

For that sense. I appreciate you soothing me in this regard, but I already feel terribly awkward. Then my teammate comes to my defense with not a question. Congratulations. But just a healthy congratulations and the further pointing out of that awkwardness because he's always good for me in those spots. I'm also thinking of divorce, Vince, after many, many years, 18 years with a partner who does things like that to you.

This is the Dan Levator Show with the Stugats.

Stugats, the Diddy stories this weekend that we're coming out and the settlement. All of it I found to be quite a labyrinth, quite a Webb. The idea that Diddy would settle so quickly when he had a lawyer and money advantage that could have possibly allowed him to fight, suggested to me that there was truth there. I think a lot of people were jumping to that conclusion, but there's a trigger warning here. In a federal lawsuit, Thursday, the singer, Cassie, claimed that she was, quote, trapped in a cycle of abuse, violence, and sex trafficking. She alleged that Diddy raped her, punched, beat, kicked, and stomped her, forced her to perform sex acts on male prostitutes while Diddy cultivated and filmed them, that he got her addicted to drugs, that he blew up Kid Cuddy's car after finding out that she dated him. Kid Cuddy confirmed that. Diddy vehemently denied the claim. His lawyer said Cassie had been demanding $30 million for six months, but Friday came the settlement. Justin Tensley is a senior sports and cultural reporter for ESPN's Anscape. He's the author. It was all a dream, Biggie and the world that made him. Justin, thank you for making the time.

You've also written about hip hop's bad history with the Me Too movement and the misogyny that has plag the industry. Let's begin here. How surprised were you, and thank you for joining us, by the details in these allegations?

For one, thank you for having me, Dan and Stewart. I guess the answer is yes, I was surprised, and no, I wasn't surprised. Yes, because any time you start a lawsuit with a trigger warning, you're thinking like, What the hell am I about to get myself into? But I don't think anybody could have imagined the details that were in there. So yes, that's what I was shocked about. But no, because what I've learned in my time covering the music industry, hip hop, and far beyond is that is ran of money, power, and respect. And ironically, that's the title of a classic song in Diddy's universe. But because of that, it can be a very dark place. And we've heard the horror stories about the music industry as long as the music industry has been alive. So unfortunately, there's this dark underbelly where people are made to feel like they're disposable. Sometimes it's in their contracts. Other times it's the allegations that are in this lawsuit. The sad part is I don't think we'll ever truly know the full extent of which.

Is it fair to jump to conclusions on the speed with which Diddy settled this?

I think, especially from the outside looking in, I think it is fair because we'll never know all the details that were inside. But when I've spoken to people who I trust inside the legal industry, and I honestly asked the same question, Dan, is it fair for me to assume that there was a lot of truth within this lawsuit? The resounding answer was it would be fair to assume that without getting themselves in any jeopardy or anything. But I think we all had the same reaction when we saw that.

How fearful a persona was, Diddy, because that isn't something that I associated with him necessarily.

Yeah. When we talk about instilling fear into people and just the urban legends that come with it, for a long time, that's been associated with Suge Knight, the former head of Death Row Records. And we all understand the history that comes with the East and the West Coast, Bad Boy and Death Row. But the thing is, when you cover the music industry for so long, you always hear stories. One, I think the biggest red flag against Puffy in terms of just his history and business was just how he allegedly treated his artists with bad contracts or publishing rights. And so that was the big one that like, yeah, his business with artists is always up in the air. And then it's like maybe he's hard to work with. But then you always hear intimate rumors, and a lot of times they're just that. But when I read this lawsuit, now you have to incorporate those details when discussing the life and the legacy of Sean Combs, because this is just as important as launching Bad Boy in 1993 and helping launch the careers of Mary J. Blige and Joe to see that this is just as important, if not more important than anything else.

What are we to make of hip hop and its public reckoning with the times changing? You see, on one hand, rappers like Da Baby effectively be canceled, like their careers genuinely hurt by their scandals. But we see artists like Diddy continue to be in the public eye despite whispers being around them. We have Snoop Dogg unabasheded about what he said in the past. We also see other artists move away from what they used to do. Chris Brown is still a gigantic artist. It's confusing to me. Does the audience for hip hop just pick and choose depending on the catalog?

Yeah. This is a conversation that's been had in various forms for so long because there's not always one answer to it. When I think of a cultural awakening, the people in power is the fans. We're looking at it like, Hey, look, this is a major scar that we can't continue to willingly deepen, and there are multiple scars. We can't say protect women. We can't say, Protect these Black lives, protect victims, and not follow up with tangible action behind it. And in a broad sense, that's what the tangible action behind an epiphany. So does that happen? That's a totally different reality. In honestly, man, I just don't know. But I saw this video of the rapper, excuse me, Slint Thug, talking yesterday on the Cassie and Diddy situation saying victims should speak out in real time when this abuse is happening, and it should be a time limit. Like, look, in an ideal world, would it be great if victims spoke up immediately after being abused? Sure, but that's not even remotely realistic. What it does is create this fallacy of abuse being easy to get out of when it's not rooted in greed and power and the worst forms of manipulation.

There were allegations in this lawsuit about medical records not even going to Cassie. When you hear all of that, you understand where this fear comes from. You understand how this could happen for so long. You understand that there are time limits to everything, hence why this wasn't a criminal case and rather a civil case. I think if we're going to have a reckoning about this and multiple other issues within the genre, part of it comes with just making ourselves knowledgeable on matters such as these saying, Hey, you know what? I was wrong at first, but I can't continue to be wrong, and I can't continue to allow anyone else to be wrong either.

Will this impact his career moving forward?

That is going... That's the $10 million question, too, honestly. The answer is, I think in the short term, I believe it will. From a business standpoint, this really impacts how you can be nominated for awards. This really makes all the goodwill that he had going into this, from donating a million dollars to Jackson State, or to getting the global honorary award at the VMAs, or the key from the city from Mayor Eric Adams earlier this year. A short term, I think it will. From a business portfolio standpoint. Now, long term, will this continue to help evolve a much necessary conversation around domestic violence, around intimate partner violence and things of that nature? I hope so, but just in the past, it doesn't give me the greatest confidence in the world.

I just struggle with... Look, we saw the Super Bowl half-time. Dr. Dre performed at the Super Bowl half-time. He had stuff in his past. It'll be interesting to see when Kanye drops his album, what exactly the audience will be for it, what the cultural reaction will be to it. Hip hop is a little bit different. They play by different rules, and the marketplace does speak for itself and the metrics are undeniable. There was a time where something like this would be good for one's brand. Now with regards to Diddy, this was somebody that just dropped an album that was trying to come back into the pop culture of zeitgeist, not that he had ever really left, but to be a relevant portion of the pop culture of zeitgeist. Typically, we've seen this before in Hollywood. When one story is out there and there's a lot of allegations here, there's no shortage. If you look at social media, no shortage of people willing to talk about their experiences with Diddy. Now that this is out there, investigators and journalists are going to be poking around. Might this be the beginning of problems for Diddy?

Just how we've seen things play out in the past, you would think that like, Oh, man, where there's smoke, there's fire, right? There has to be. That's what the logic says. But we'll see. It makes you go back and look at something like given you're a bad boy artist they're publishing after all these years and a move that was called Surprising by Multiple Outlets, and you're like, Well, what was the reasoning for all this? A lot of allegations towards Diddy have lived on the internet, have lived on YouTube, have lived on social media for years. It'll be interesting to see, like you said, man, if this is the start of a really major legal headache for Diddy, or if this was just a one-off. Even if it is just a one-off, what is the impact of this one-off? Because guess what? We all saw that lawsuit. We all know the details that were in it. They're going to live on the internet for the rest of all of our lives in some form. How does this really impact him? I wish I knew the answer, but I just don't until we see it. But I think immediately in the short term, we won't be hearing a lot from him for right now.

I'm curious. I'm going to ask you a personal question here because I think it'd be unfair to make you speak for hip hop here. I know how I experience certain musicians that I had held in high regard, had an affinity for, some like Ryan Adams, who I've just totally stopped listening to, others that are a little bit trickier. Like David Bowie has his history, Prince has his history. Michael Jackson is one of these artists like, Man, yeah, there was a lot there, but he had some songs, didn't he? I'm curious how you go about some of these things. When you listen back to some of the hip hop that you grew up listening to, I know Eminem fans, certainly because he was among the most vocal in terms of the public eye, certainly one that met a lot of scrutiny. How do you experience that era of hip hop? How do you view these artists now that you've gotten older, these artists that you've grown up and trying to reconcile with a different time? Hair Metal, I think, also has some of this too, where, yeah, we knew how Motley crew treated women. Mothley crew is still headlining festivals and all that.

I wonder if hip hop is going to be judged by... If certain acts are going to be judged by the time and the morals were they piqued, and how does that age?

That is such a fascinating question, and it's one that I think about all the time because, look, Lord knows I'm not perfect. I'll probably tell you some of my favorite artists right now, and I might look like a hypocrite. But I have to judge this on like, for me, I do it on a case-by-case basis in a lot of cases. And a lot of times I make the same decision. But for somebody like R. Kelly, I used to always play R. Kelly's music. And then I realized what my role is in helping him further whatever it is that he was doing. So I had to just come to the realization one day. I was like, man, as much as I like this music back in the day, I can't continue to listen to it. And so for him, I completely put him off to the side. And I think about arguably my favorite artist of all time, Tupac Shakur. And we understand the life that he lived and all the great things that he did. But there's also his sexual assault case in 1994 and how that played out. And I have to reconcile that in my head, knowing that this is an undeniable and irreplaceable part of his story just as much as the great music or the great interviews or the things that he stood for did.

I think for a lot of people within hip hop, you're never really going to see a universal opinion on, This person can stay, this person has to go, mainly because each person's standards for what you can accept are so different. My standards are different from my next door neighbor or even the person down the street. And as much as I try to, here's how I feel about the situation, and here's the reason why I feel about the situation, I can't expect everyone to feel like that because it's just never going to happen at the same time. I can't explain why some can stay and some can't. Maybe, like you said, it is a time period. Maybe it is, like you said, just how much you really like the music, and you can be willing to place things to decide where, whereas some people can't. It's an imperfect science because human beings are literally the definition of imperfect.

Two questions with the less than a minute that we have left. What was Diddy's reputation behind the scenes and in the lawsuit that includes rape and blowing up Kid Cuddy's car? What were the details that jumped out to you from the lawsuit?

Man, it was just one paragraph after another. You always hear the intimate rumors between people in the music industry, and you never know how true it actually is. But then once you start reading, again, the medical records being sent to him, her being sent away for weeks at a time to allegedly recover from injuries, allegedly blowing up Kate Cuddy's car, and then getting Kate Cuddy's representation to confirm that in the article. I was like, This is reading something like a villain script, and I was shocked at the depth of it. I understood what the Red Flags were about Diddy, but the depth of that, I don't think anybody saw coming.

What can you tell us about the relationship that 50 Cent and Diddy had? Because 50 Cent has been trying to tell people a variety of things for a while.

50 and Diddy have not seen eye to eye in a long, long time. And if you're familiar with 50 Cent on social media, every now and then he will always poke fun at Diddy. I don't even have enough time to give you the full history between them two. But if there's anybody in hip hop in terms of artists that are going to speak out against Diddy, for better and for worse, it will be 50 Cent.

Senior sports and culture reporter for ESPN's Anscape, can't believe you're already senior, sir. I remember when you were junior. Thank you.

I'll always be a junior.

Thank you for being on with us, Justin. We appreciate it.

Thank you, fellas. Thank you for having me on.