You're listening.

To.

Draftkings Network. I want the help of the group here on something today, and I don't know exactly who the group is. It's a complaint we've been getting over the last two years. Who is the group? Today it's Chris, Lucy, Jessica, Mike, and I don't know who the fifth person is. We'll find out together in a little bit that person is dressed as the Stay Puffed Marshmello Man. But the place that I need help is I want you guys to help me develop a character that is less impartial than the journalist I've always been and a character that works for DraftKings, a gambling company, and helps you with your bets, but also harkens to a different time in gambling, a very different time. When I was a kid, and you'd call a phone line and the tout on the other end of that phone would just be an overly dramatic cartoon character of forceful intensity, telling you exactly how you should bet a game. The reason I bring this up is because I came in today and the Stay Puffed Marshmello man in muted tones says to me, You cost people a lot of money last night because you forced me into Against the Spread and Thursday Thunder, and I picked the Raptors last night minus three and a half.

And I don't want any part of any of this. Dan, why would you work for a gambling company? Well, a lot of things happened. And then we got to freedom. And now I'm a gambling man. And I'm a gambling man in a way that makes me uncomfortable. I don't like that I'm betting first halfs. I don't like that I'm in-game wagers. I don't like these things about myself.

Oh.

Shut up. You gamble so much. You love it.

Come on. I texted you all the time, gambling. No, this is why I don't love it. No, wait. I do love gambling, but I tell you now, honestly and sincerely, and it's not because I always lose the games. I always lose. Why? I'm making way too many bets. It's not smart. It's not wise the way I do it. Mike has been killing it the last three weeks, and I don't kill it because- You bet every game. -i'm betting too many other things on my own. I wander stray. I don't have the moderation that he does, and he has no moderation.

I don't either. It's just what I tell you.

You went 27 and 24 last weekend.

That's right. The number.

Of times- It's the best day. You still.

Lose, though.

Because of the bank. It's the best day. The best day is when I make $7.50. That's.

Happened to me so many times. This is the best.

Just from morning till night.

Can we go back? What is this phone number you used.

To call? This is what I want to talk about. Thank you, Jessica, because I want to know how it is. You have to understand, this was so long ago. This is something of a discovery for me as a child around sports. I think sports are just fun as sports. It's great. But then there's this dirty underbelly of illegality that.

Is shameful. Objection, coding. Back then? I mean, it's just, yeah, I guess back then, when it was against the rules.

But now- But this is what I'm saying.

It was the 19th- The underbelly, it was never dirty. It was beautiful. People were soft. It was beautiful. While I'm very happy our partners, draft kings, are legal in several states, and I do miss going behind that Walgreens.

Well, I'm going to tell you guys at some point how Stugatz and I have been doing this for years, because Stugatz is essentially the person who helps me with this. You use his guy?

He's your cowboy.

I don't know his guy, and his guy doesn't know who I am because I've had to live by journalism rules for a while, but it's good to be outside that Walgreens or show up at the cigar store and there's an envelope.

A red phone sending a Western Union. I learned so much. There are skill sets that younger generations just don't know. I don't think they know how to send a Western Union money gram to.

The Philippines. How to send a.

Letter.

More like. Yeah. What stamps do I need? That era is not that by-gone, Dan, because I just checked my phone right now and I have two score phone numbers that don't work, but I don't have the heart to delete them from my phone because back in 2005, this was the only way that I could find the score of the New Jersey Institute of Technology's basketball game.

Lucy is shocked right now.

You would call to get a score?

You would call to get a score because Google didn't have the score and the ESPN app, these weren't actual things. You would either listen to Eddie Kaplan on WQAM, who was great about giving all the scores, all of them, or you would call this phone number and you would get it quickly. Keep in mind also, the speed on cellular data, now it's very quick. But before these websites or even the early days of these websites, your speed, it would be way quicker to just call up a number and get the score that you wanted.

This is giving me a flashback to my family does a bowl, like Pic 'em thing every year for all the college football bowl games. And I used to be in charge of making the... I'd handwrite a little thing with all the matchups. And my dad would be like, I need the newspaper. I got to see who the favorites are. Give me the newspaper. And I'd be trying to open the newspaper to find the sports section to see all the favorites on the bowl games. Now you could just send a little link, Your dad, click on this. It still takes.

Just as long for him, though. The shock that keeps sweeping across Lucy's face, because I can do it worse than that. My earliest memories of getting score updates were just so ridiculous. I remember being underneath a pool table in Miriamar. I'd be 46 years old. It's like a line score is showing up on a screen on baseball scores. I have to wait for everyone to go, and it's like Atari graphics to get the top of the fourth on the Yankees. I might as well have had a stenographer from the 1800s trying to send a message.

That ESB and ticker must have crushed.

I remember when MLB first trotted out their gamecast and you could see pitch by pitch and what a game-changer that was for fiends.

Do we still need the.

Bottom line? Not for scores, for sure.

Bottom line is more programming updates now.

How did Lucy and Jessica at any point in your lives have you gotten lost outside a stadium and not had a way of contacting someone because there was no cell phone?

That happens almost every weekend on our college football tour. There is no service in these college towns.

It's terrible. Trying to call an Uber from a college town to leave the game because your team laid an egg in the third quarter. Not that that happened to me in Chapel Hill or anything, but it's tough.

It's harder for this generation because they're expecting the... You at least were like, I got nothing.

That's why on campus- These.

People have a phone and they're like, I should be able to contact people, and they can't. It's harder for us.

That's why all these- You knew a phone number. You knew at least a.

Phone number. That's why all these podung towns on Twitter is like, You don't even have it on campus Stadium. That's because I got 5G. It works. I can find it myself.

I can't believe the differences that are coming to the entirety of the industry when everything falls on gambling state by state the way that it's falling on marijuana, because you're watching so many things change because of the money in the sport, the money across sports, the business of sports. Jeremy was telling me that as a Bally's broadcaster, he's not allowed, just like Woj and Shams, he's not allowed to bet on the games. Oh, so it's Jeremy. No, I said he was telling me outside. I'm sorry. I meant to say he.

Was telling me outside. Well, who's the Marshmello man with the Emmy?

I do not know. Oh, the Emmy there. Yes, the Emmy there. Jeremy, you're not allowed to. You're the one who greeted me this morning saying to me, You cost people a lot of money last night, and I believe there's a character that can be created here where I am a gambling tout and I lean into, You know what? I'm not going to hide in the shadows anymore. I'm going to break free, and I'm going to be the guy from the '80s who you'd call on the phone, and he would shout at you, Mike. It's hard to explain to anybody in the modern age what these touts sounded like on the phone. All of them were trying to be louder than the next guy. The best.

Guy In the past.

Oh, what a time. I'll help you punch your guy in the face and a lot worse than that. He would beat the hell out of your guy because he knew exactly what was going to happen in the sport. But, Jeremy, you're not allowed to bet on the games at all, right? You have to sit out all of this.

That's correct. I don't bet on the Heat and I don't bet on any basketball as an NBA broadcaster. I think those are the rules league-wide, where anybody who's working on a League broadcast isn't allowed to be gambling on anything within the league. It is interesting to see where that goes over the span of time, right? Because gambling is entering all of these leagues in partnerships with draft kings and others. I am intrigued to see if years down the line that changes. But I think that's the industry standard. I don't bet on the Heat, on the Marlands, on the Panthers because I cover those teams. We appreciate your professionalism. Fuck, man.

Don't let a tard. He's just largely performant, but we need to.

Establish some reasonable doubt here. I'm going to kill you. I'm so done. Hold on. -what? -he's in trouble.

I'm trying to talk to everyone with a story where he pays more than you do.

Stugats. I always leave a bad on time. Because he's so vulnerable, I just unfairly fade down the chickens. He's just leave him by himself.

This is the.

Dan.

Levator show.

With the Stugats. That was.

A good line because it looks ridiculous.

You had it. Yeah, I know. Yeah, they were right.

Sometimes you know you have a good line, and that's when it's just like, Oh.

This is going to crush. And to trip up on that sentence.

Professionalism.

Yes. On professionalism.

At least it's all in him still. No one's.

Looking at me. Yeah, but here's what makes it even worse. I was really hoping to get into a deep dive journalistic discussion without ever mentioning that it looks funny. You punctured that, too, with the way that you stumbled over it.

But you can't puncture this because then all the air will come out.

I understand why Dan's confused because for most of his life, keep in mind, Dan is very old, but he looks great today. We all like your outfit. I like way.

Too hard for you. Yeah, Dan, you look awesome.

Yeah. Is that the Mark Meron collection?

That is not a compliment, and it is. I should take it as a compliment, but it just means, Dan, you usually don't look awesome in any way. I've only stopped with the T-shirts and just put on a flannel shirt because this is our winter. It's 63 degrees out, and I got like seven things.

You're.

Bundled up. This is me bundled up. Yes, it's a flannel shirt.

I'm wearing a turtle neck today. It's so cold out. Dan, you look like a divorced dad and a great one at that.

I have a divorced dad I can attest. You do. Like on a first date.

You're the divorced dad that has your ex-wife being like, What? Now you look good? Now you're putting it together? Where was this effort when.

We were together? What's your gamut? Guess what? Doloritas are back.

You guys are going to have a great dinner at the Cheesecake Factory.

Blue Martini is where I'm.

Heading tonight. No, you got to have the meatloaf and cheese cake.

Get whatever you want on me.

Lucy, are we going to buy your dad a Christmas gift?

I hope so. I am having a real tough time figuring out what to buy him. And you guys are men, some with children. So what do you want for Christmas that I could also get for my dad?

I'm a bad wanter. I'm hard to buy gifts for.

That's how my dad is. I can't buy him anything, and it sucks. And then I feel bad because I know it hurts his feelings Christmas Day when he doesn't have a gift, but he won't tell me what he wants. And if he wants it, then he just buys it. It's very stressful.

Yeah, Yeah. So is someone supposed to fake it there? Is somebody supposed to fake it with, like is dad supposed to just tell you what he likes so that you can go through the military mechanics of marching over there and getting him that cologne?

That's what I would love. But when he wants something, he's just going to buy it. It doesn't matter if it's like four days before Christmas, he'll just go buy it for himself. And he's like, Well, I wanted it, so I bought it. Yeah, let us get you one gift. Because every year for Christmas I feel so bad because I have a salary now, and I'm showing up. Here's a bag of peanut M&Ms for Christmas.

It's funny. He would love a collage of all of your travels over college football that he got to star in by screwing things up and costing the company money. That's great, actually.

That's a really good idea. Yeah, I think that the sentimental stuff, stuff that your dad wouldn't go out of his way to do on his own, a collage of his children, a photoshoot of his children, something like that that you know your dad would never put in the work to actually do himself, but would deeply appreciate it as the best, or you go bourbon.

I don't want anything with my siblings in it. They're not willing to put in the work, so this is not their time to shine. Sorry, Kate.

Sorry, Jack. Photos of his daughter having the time of her life on the road that sometimes he's in is a pretty good artistic gift.

This is your first year working on the Levitard show? Get him some T-shirts. My parents have so many draft Kings and Levitard show shirts, and they.

Love them. You know what you should do? Do the collage of you on the road and then screencap the tweets of your dad threatening to fight that Iowa fan Twitter account?

Frame it.

Yeah, make a lunch. Make a blanket, maybe.

Jeremy, do you think in our lifetime any of this stuff will change? The reason that I bring all of it up as it relates to journalism is, like I said, Woj and Schepter and these guys and Schams, they can move the lines now. They have inside information. One of the reasons Jeremy can't gamble on games is because he knows that Bam's hip is hurt before other people do, and he can move lines, change information. And so you need your information to be pure. You need it to be objective, the integrity of the results, even though we're talking about the refs every day and they have a disproportionate impact on all the games, the integrity of the results have to be something you trust. Ultimately, and this is weird for gambling to have been in the shadows and illegal and shamed for a long time, you have to trust that nobody has insider information that's illegal to have gathered. And so you have to spread a blanket among a lot of employees. A lot of employees, some of whom might have gambling habits. You don't know, just across the spectrum, you're telling a lot of employees, This is an absolute, you cannot gamble.

But you're also telling me, because I've been told referees can't even go to Vegas and walk into a casino, broadcasters can do that. That, correct? Broadcasters can bet in Vegas. Can they not?

I sure hope so because I've walked into casinos. I didn't bet on sports, but I've gambled. So I hope we're not exposing me and getting me suspended from the league, Dan.

Well, I'm asking you guys this tightrope because you're really asking a lot of employees with a lot of different... You're making a blanket rule and you're telling people... Although it's not even said that clearly. Is it like.

You're- No, it's often said that clearly. I don't know if I'm the... I think I'm pretty good for this because Jeremy's pretty new school, and you're from a bygone era. Even though congrats on your divorce, I'm happy for you. But I think this is pretty easy to understand. I really do. If I participate in a sport, I'm not allowed to bet on that sport. It's a very simple concept. It's not hard.

The Iowa football team learned that the hard way.

I would say the more interesting part is when people like Woj and Shams have that insider information and the way that we saw them ultimately influence people betting on the NBA draft, right? Because they say this team is focused on this player not only in the days leading up, but sometimes a few minutes before picks are actually made. That ultimately can heavily influence the way that people are gambling because the lines don't change instantly on who's going to go to what team. That's the stuff where we saw ESPN institute, Hey, whoa, you can't tweet out draft picks before they're actually made. But I wonder how much that actually had to do with gambling more so than even spoil the.

Draft for people. There's only one person that's allowed to do this and get away with it, and that's Al Michaels very clearly.

He does it in the funniest way, where he is still at the end of games. He did this either the last game or the one before that, maybe the Jets game. He's still talking in the coded language during the games. The reason that I want to bring all of this up to you, Mike, is because as this show evolves and as the media space evolves. Matt Barnes is on yesterday, and they smoke weed. That's just not something that you would have seen 10 years ago. It wouldn't have existed. But we now are in partnership with a gambling company, and all of this stuff that's hidden is now getting out in front of everybody. When I talk about, you say, Yes, it's very simple, Dan. Employees aren't allowed to get more. Okay. Do you realize how ripe for contamination from every angle that is that you've got so many different employees of so many different types and kinds who don't care about what your rules are or even your workplace rules? They might risk that. There are so many impeachments on integrity that can come from so many angles. Number nine, just referees. It's everybody now.

We're all in this changing game of something that has been stigmatized is now legalized. We all play by a set of rules that are different for me, that are different for you, and they're different from Emmy-wining Jeremy, who's 26 years old and going to learn how to play this game when Cezars and everybody else is getting in valleys. They're all in the game with sports and sports is taking all that money.

That's why regulation is good. That's why being legalized in all these states is a good thing because you have these league partners actually flagging the behavior. We've already seen several suspensions in the NFL, in college, football, across sports. You've seen this behavior get flagged. It's a notion in sports that the cheaters are always ahead of the game, and that even when it comes to gambling, there is. I saw just a couple of days ago Maverick Carter was in the news cycle, and then sure enough, all the message boards were looking at LeBron performances that might have been questionable. This is always going to be something that hangs over the sport. But the fact that DraftKings and all these other companies are legal now doesn't all of a sudden open this portal. Yes, it's more accessible now, but gambling scandals are as old as sports are. Be it BlackSox, be it Pete Rose. This is something that sports have always had to navigate, and it's actually easier now with their league partners playing ball with them.

Well, you say it's easier now, but what's not easier now, Mike, is that LeBron has created a giant economy around his friends and friends and communities that are competitive and like gambling. We now have information very close to LeBron that one of his guys was betting through an illegal bookie. You tell me, let's not make it LeBron and Maverick Carter. Let's just make it a hypothetical. I tell you that one of your best friends is your business partner, and you guys like gambling and it's fun, and you enjoy doing it. And there's a basketball game being played, and you are in your 17th season, 16th season in the NBA, keeping yourself entertained night tonight because you've been doing this for a long time and it hurts. If there's a prop bet for Player X gets over 19 points and that player can do that any night he wants to, it's the easiest money to just do that for your friend. You don't think those games are played inside of games? I do.

Think that those games are played inside of games. There's always these stories that you hear that it's gambling lore of a player being screamed at from the stands, Hey, I need two more points from you, and player turning to them saying, I got you. But ultimately the sport, it governs all this stuff because when you're in these games, unless you're an absolute fiend, a sicko that is actually altering the results of these games, the most important thing is your job, is your profession, is winning the game.

Tries to govern, though, you say. Yeah. Tries to govern.

It's important. Yeah, look, there are scandals all over Europe when it comes to betting that have rocked some of the most prestigious clubs over in Europe. This is something that the world has had to deal with. I actually think it being legalized in more and more places is a really good thing when it comes to keeping integrity because the tech that these companies have to track down even proxies, it goes beyond what you know because there's a lot of stuff that they use to track that you didn't even know was possible.

Now that you mentioned LeBron, Dan, I think we need to go back and check out the 2010-11 finals, because it sounds like Maverick may have had the Mavericks.

You didn't just do that. Did he do that? He did do that, Jess. It's a good joke.

He's terrible. The whole LeBron thing, though, is interesting. It answers, I think, the age old debate because Michael Jordan would never have a gambling skin if you're.

Attached to him.

I was joking with my friends like, Damn, even Jordan did that first, too, and he did it better.

Did you feel like there was anybody out there talking about this link beyond saying the Got you Maverick, and it's a headline. You've got two real power brokers right next to what could be a gambling scandal if we wanted to make it one. I haven't seen it. I have no interest in doing it, but I'm just talking to you about human behavior around competition and because we're talking about how much fun it is to do some of this stuff because we're in an over-caffinated age. We need 100 games to be going on at once. Jessica Steeler's are playing tonight at Steeler's Patriots. The only joy in tonight is that the NFL is getting into comedy content because we finally get to laugh at the Steelers and the Patriots after 20 years of knowing that they were going to make you hurt, not laugh.

Tonight's a night to revel, I think. If you're an NFL fan of a certain age, actually, there's such a wide swath of age ranges in which your lifetime was dominated by the Steelers and the Patriots. If you would have told 21-year-old me there would come a time where a game was on Amazon, and it would be between the Patriots and the Stealers, and everyone saying, Why do we have to watch this? Isn't there some flex? This is terrible. These are two of the worst teams to watch. Are you kidding me? The day has finally arrived. Look how old I am now, compared to when the... The Stealers have never been bad in my lifetime. The Patriots were bad when I was very, very young, but most of my life they were incredible. A Tom Brady-Less Patriots being terrible, a Ben Rothesburg or Les Stealers being terrible. This is not anything I've ever had to deal with. So I'm going to revel in tonight the same way that I reveled in Colt's Broncos a Thursday night from last season where it was just everybody knew going into it would be the worst game, and it delivered.

I hope today is a slotvest.

We are putting together truly one of the most disgusting Thursday Thunders that the world has ever seen. And what's funny about how disgusting this game is, it's Bailey Zappe versus Mitch Trabiski because Kenny Pickett got surgery on Monday morning on his ankle. He's expected to be back. They did not place him on injured reserve. But the Steelers are still in the playoff hunt. This may be a playoff team. As bad as both of them are and as unfun as they are to watch, one of them may actually be in the postseason, and one of them is coached by Bill Belichick. I don't understand it either, Mike.

Would you be okay with a committee deciding at the end of the season that the Steelers just couldn't be in? No. That a committee picks one team? No. Well, because it would be the Falcons who would get picked this year, I think.

Definitely not then. I don't think that answers your question.

The Steelers, they're not a playoff team.

The defense.

Is incredible. Tj Watt over 0.75 Sachs. Let's go.

Don Libertard. You got to know, I'm a big Colombo guy. Salute to that boy. Okay. I don't think that's true. I don't think that's a lie. I don't think that's a lie. I don't think that's a lie. You said, Salute. I don't think that is evidence. Salute to that boy. It suggests camouflage. It suggests that JuJu has no idea what we're talking about, and now is just Googling it. Stugatz. I'm not Googling it. My grandmother stayed in the country. I watched The Braves. I watched Colombo. I watched Matlock. I watched.

Andy.

Griffin. You said that you go to the pill in the box, damn.

You take.

Your ass to the pill in the box. You tell.

Him, JuJu.

You tell.

Him.

Juju. Back to you, Stu. This is the Don.

Lebertar Show with the Stugats.

I have seen here recently, Lucy, and it's not normal. It's not a normal thing in college football or in media coverage in general to see someone burst onto the scene and all of a sudden climb to the top or toward the top of national rankings on when they… You're a rookie. You're not a rookie. You've been doing this for a while. But in terms of getting out there into a larger landscape, people are really noticing your work here. I saw a list from what I believe to be a very prestigious source that I cannot name right now because I forgot. But the list has the 100 top college football personalities this year. Not newcomers, not in a region of some sort, not merely nationally, internationally as well. I see some people who've been in the game a long time at 51 and 52. Rick Newheizel, Trevor Madditch, when you saw your name on the list, when you got this list for the first time, when you were informed of this, were you told that someone spoil it? Or did they tell you where you were ranked?

I did not know this list was coming out. I actually found out because some of the listeners of this show sent it to me. And they were like, Look, you're number 24. Very prestigious. Top 25 %. I'm up there.

Congratulations. Thank you. You're ahead of Danny Cannell. As I should be. You're only two spots behind Kirk Herb Street. This is some elite media company you're keeping.

Look, if I had a dog and brought it to games like Herbie did, I would be higher than him. I'm just going to say- He's cheating. He's absolutely cheating. I'd be top 10 if I brought a dog with me.

She's also ahead of Urban Meyer, Dan, and Double Vodka Don, who I must assume is an Ohio State fan of some sort, but at 81, so well ahead of Double Vodka Don.

The best part of this list is the guy who made it. Big Game Boomer has himself at number 98.

Well, he makes a.

Good list. Greg Mcelroy falling behind the guy that made the list is interesting.

What else? Tim Tebo is in the '80s. So when I tell you that Lucy Roden has made it to the very top of this- Rodene. Rodene, excuse me. 50. Well, we'll know her name soon enough.

She's the head of Paul Feinbaum.

I mean, there's only one E in her head.

-rese.

Davis.

Who else is up on that list that doesn't deserve to be up on that list?

Oh, I don't. I think the entire list is fraudulent.

Yeah, why is Bruce Belmond be rep from the U? Does that hurt your feelings a little.

Bit, Mike? I mean, he's a great reporter. I would have him ranked ahead of 62, but I also wouldn't just lump him in with Miami. There's plenty of people to choose from that prestigious institution. But Big Game Boomers tricked you all again. No. Because he knows how to internet better than anybody else. Because he puts together these lists that are bullshit that he does from his home.

What do you mean this.

Is bullshit? You think Big Game Boomers had all the tailgates? What do you mean this is bullshit? When he puts together 100 best tailgates in America and he feels like he's some expert on this, do you think he's going all these tailgates?

Lucy's at 24.

Dan, he did a list the other day of every school's favorite Thanksgiving dish.

It was great. Oh, it was Miami's. This sounds like sour grapes, Mike, to.

Be honest. It's just tricking you. Honestly, where our video department is failing is every time we do a top five, there should be a graphic with it because the internet loves graphics when it comes to any because they can argue about it. But this isn't someone that samples the nation. This is a guy named Big Game Boomer that only until recently was fairly anonymous. He just put up a picture of himself not too long ago and revealed himself and his identity. This is just the internet. This is an amorphous thing. This is totally subjective. How are you giving credence to this?

Because I'm on the list.

What.

Numbers should you be? Because I'm on the list.

What do you mean? But so is Tim Brando at eight.

It's bizarre. Desmond Howard and Joey Galloway are in the '70s. This list is credible to me. Lucy Rodine- It's.

Just all the names of people that... Well, except a couple- There's no.

Spencer Hall on it. There's no Ryan Nanny.

Taylor isn't on it.

There's no Mike Ryan.

Jeremy isn't on it.

Yeah, this feels like a pretty official list to me. There was total UCF exclusion.

Jessica just- Oh, Jeremy. Jesus Christ. Enough.

Jessica did stumble onto something there that I think as Mike gets more and more... Mike bucks up sometimes and doesn't know where it is that he's a little bit defensive. I think you may have hit a nerve when you said Mike Ryan's not on this list.

That just shows you how uninformed it is.

But Double Vodka Don is on it. So that's in.

The profile. I wasn't familiar with Double Vodka Don until I searched out his Twitter and even the first couple of videos made me look at him and say, Yes, your nickname should be Double V vodka Don.

Shack meme. I wasn't familiar with your game.

Well, so Mike, as media changes and you want to be an insider and you have college football information and you want to also be able to gamble, I don't think you can get on list like this unless you've got a double vodka theme in it. If you.

Want to climb- Sure you can. I mean, do you think Brett McMurphy is calling himself Double Bourbon Brett?

That's a great idea, by the way.

How long.

Until Brett McMurphy just gets his own bowl game, by the way? He should just be the title sponsor of the Brett McMurphy Bowl because he has carved out quite a.

Niche for himself. The L. A. Bowl just needs to have a mustache on it next year.

They gave Grunk a bowl game, right?

It's the same. The L. A. Bowl does creative licensing things where it was the Jimmy Kimmel Bull, and now it's a Grunk Bull. Jimmy Kimmel had the mascot, the Jimmy Camel. I think the L. A. Bull just goes out and seeks media partners to help elevate the bull game in itself. But I don't think Grunk is a part of this committee. I just think he's along for the ride.

But, Lucy, you and Mike, it's been fascinating to hear you talk in the corridors here because you guys have gotten into the of the business of what NIL is as it's being created around you. That makes for a different insider. It makes for an insider. When I've told you that sports business gets covered very poorly, rarely is anything going to get covered as poorly as something like that in a small town where Alabama doesn't care so much how the economy of all that works. They just want to make sure the football machine gets fed. Alabama is going to have a hard time keeping up with any city, big city that's got oil, a Texas A&M, and figures out how to navigate this system of business better than Alabama navigates it. This is a very difficult place for nick Saban to keep up at this speed of changing rules when he's a rule guy.

As the 24th ranked best media personality, I'm qualified to speak on this. I actually disagree with that. I think that the smaller schools and the college towns are better equipped to handle NIL the way NIL is set up is it's five to seven people up top who give a ton of money, and then there's this cash pool of fans underneath. So it's like every company. Yeah, pretty much. Where it's like if you look at a school like USC, L. A. Doesn't really give a shit about that football team. They don't really care. Where if you look at a school like Nebraska where people are so passionate, that's a better investment in their money. I honestly think that college towns are better equipped to succeed. And Alabama is always going to be on the forefront of that. Nick Saban is always going to be 10 steps ahead of everyone else. And I think he warned us of that a few years ago.

You all tried to do the nick Saban is slipping show earlier this season, by the way. I'm guilty. And I said they just have a little bit of an issue at quarterback. That USF case. That was a tough game. Three-three at half time. Their starting quarterback from that game is now transferring back to Notre Dame to play lacrosse.

No, but Jessica got.

This- Shout out to Tyler Buckner.

Love that guy. Jessica got this exactly right, because I did say at the beginning of the season, because we were celebrating the Deion stuff, it's like, really? Alabama is going to lose or fall as a dynasty quietly because of how we haven't seen them open that way where they lose at home by two touchdowns. To me, I'm confused by the NIL, right? I'm not in the weeds of it like you guys are. I'm watching that Texas-Alabama game and I'm like, Holy shit. Texas's receivers are big.

All right, you are banned from using Texas's receivers are big. It has been your only bit of longhorn analysis.

This week. It has been. But, Mike, it's because I'm seeing professional receivers at the beginning of the season beat Alabama, and I thought the game had changed right there because that's Texas money. They beat their pants. Because that's Texas money.

Texas has a Pancake Factory NIL program where it was reported each member of their offensive line gets a million dollars. There are schools that would surprise you that are really good at NIL that got a jump on it. I think you're seeing some immediate results. There are some schools that you're puzzled as to why they're not getting the results because they have a bunch of resources. Ohio State, Texas A&M, they've spent money. Ohio State actually spends less money than you would think, and they've struggled to get organized. It's case by case. Texas makes all the sense in the world that they would mobilize all their money, their big alumni base, and they would be good right away. Louisville makes less sense. But in one year they hit the portal really well. They were super organized in NIL, and they got immediate results. Miami, I think, is super organized when it comes to NIL. They dealt with the John Ruiz stuff, but it's still a process with them. F. S. U, peaks and valleys. Florida, peaks and valleys. It's a very weird game. You have a school like Auburn right now. Let me tell you something about Auburn.

Auburn will spend whatever on whoever and not take any lessons from what happened at Texas A&M.

And no one has to go to class, right?

I'm not going to go that far. But Jimbo, it's been reported that Jimbo was so obsessed about having the greatest recruiting class ever that he would constantly be, after in between talking to kids, check with somebody on composite rankings because he wanted that achievement. I think Auburn is replicating that, and it could be successful. We don't have large enough samples, but it does feel a little Texas A&M-E.

But yeah, so much of it is coaching based. Texas beat Alabama because Sark called a great game, and they were able to take advantage of Alabama's weaknesses, which at that point of the season was they didn't know how to use their quarterback yet, which is, I think, something that if they do end up playing against one another in the national championship game, I'll be really interested to see because Alabama has made a ton of progress offensively since then. They still had some shaky games. They've had games where their offensive lines played a lot better, but has still been a little iffy. And there's been games when Jaylen Millero has looked incredible and also missed some pretty wide-open passes. But I'm excited for that rematch just because you have coaches that talent-wise have a great match-up on the field, but also from a play-calling perspective, they will be dueling against one another as well.

I'll give you two more schools that might surprise you that have struggled with NIL, considering their stature. And you would take the results of Lincoln Riley's first year and say, Oh, they know what they're doing on NIL. But word on the street is, it's not all that it was cracked up to be. Same thing happened with LSU. A lot of big promises, and then chatter amongst people and people that are heavily involved in recruiting saying, Oh, it's actually not.

All there. But this is the part that I find fascinating, right? As all of these things change in you guys from the inside, as legitimate insiders, Mike Defensive, that he's not one of the top 100, but-.

I'm fine. It's just.

A guy. -legitimate insiders- No, it's not. It's very serious. -it's not just a guy. Put Lucy at 24. How can you not find fascinating the business of how all of this is going to be covered when we can, not too long in the future, if people get this far inside, tell you, USC is doing well at NIL, Texas is doing well. Usc is doing poorly. Texas is doing well. I don't think that's information that people are getting elsewhere. You're looking at the scoreboard. I don't think they're tying it to how this... You need somebody coaching and leading your team that knows business, not necessarily Brian Kelly.

I think you need an organized NIL collective around a coach that knows what they're doing and knows how to develop talent. Because if you go all in on money, you're going to end up like Texas A&M. There are other things that you need to consider.