You're listening to DraftKings Network. Welcome to The Big Suie, presented by DraftKings. Why are you listening to this show? It's a podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan Levitard podcast. I'm sorry. I'm not going to apologize for that. In fact, the only difference seems to be this imaging. I have been tempted in restaurants walking past tables to grab somebody's fries if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys? I've done it. And now here's The Marching Man to Nowhere, Fetface, and The.

Habitual Liar.

I did a rare thing. I hardly ever do off air. Stugartz loves to do it to me. Stugartz loves, after we've had a disagreement of some sort on air, he loves to text me all the way home the next day the night when he goes and does research and explain to me why O-Tanya is indeed overrated. I get it all night and I get bombarded with it. But I don't usually do that to other people. But after the show yesterday, I sent Chris Cody a tweet that reported that that Titan's victory that we just saw in all circumstances when a team is down, 14 points with three or four minutes left in a football game. The number was like some 700 times it's happened, and nobody ever comes back in that situation. I was explaining to Chris Cody while he was trying to give me perspective and say, Look, this is just one loss. All teams in that sport lose a game to a bad team. And while he's right about that, what he's not right about is none of the teams in the top of that sport fighting for that position have ever lost that game that way in that situation, and it's crushing to your fan base, to your family.

Your mom is out. She's Dolph out. She thinks everything that's ever happened to this team is going to happen again, and they're going to lose. This is the beginning of what signals it. That game lost that way. Yes, of course, we could come in the next day, Chris. Of course. And if they'd lost 23-9, we come in, Well, that was a weird one, but football is weird. Look at what Davito just did. Did you see how his agent was dressed? Football is weird. So it happens, and you can convince yourself of that. But if you believe that all of these teams are as fragile as their quarterbacks physically and otherwise, right? Because Chris Long has texted me. He's going to get a tattoo of Tua if I was.

Going to hit.

Somebody with a, Look at me, Luigi. Thank you. I was going to hit somebody with a, Look at me, Luigi, in the last segment after somebody said something, and I got scared.

So- Because- -would it be the, I have an Italian-American husband, so I can do the.

Italian- That is what it was. Well, I'm just saying. That is exactly what I was going to use it on. But Chris Long has stakes in this team being a fraud, because he has been saying for a while it's a fraud. They can't be good teams, not physical enough to as not a good quarterback. I'll get a tattoo if he can win the Super Bowl. And so he texted me last night asking, Would you give to one of these big contracts? Because he's taunting me, trying to say, if you were in the front office position, would you give that contract to not only his health issues, but look at what just happened in that game when everything wasn't perfect. Look at what happened. If you can't get the ball out in 2.3 seconds and Tyree Kill is hurt. I'm asking him, Well, you tell me, football expert who's got an excellent podcast. I'm confused by what's happening with Brock Purdy. I don't know how good he actually is, but God damn, when the 49ers are whole, he looks like he is the best player in the world, and I would give him all the money.

But in a salary cap sport, you got to have value at that position if you want to keep Debo, Samuel, and everyone else, because as we've learned in segments earlier in the show, everybody wants their stuff. When money is involved, and in that sport where you're giving your body over the cause, they're all fighting over money. You understand that at this point, we have enough knowledge about football that if you have that as an option, largely sometimes it's because you don't have great options. All of them are fighting over money, and the 49ers are now physically fighting people. And Draymond's on his way out the door because they use that furnace and that volatility for their means. And now here it is with San Francisco. Dible wanted his money, and he got his money. All of these guys are going to want their money. Brock Purdy is not making any money. Brock Purdy is working for less than a million dollars a year. You got to find yourself a quarterback who lives at home like DaVito, so you could build the rest of them. That sport is not paying its players its labor enough money for you to have all of the money you need to keep all of those people happy when they're giving their bodies in a fight, often in the inner cities, for money.

Everybody made a whole big thing about Brock Purdy living.

With a roommate.

And then Tommy DeVito came in and he was like, Oh, I see your roommate, and I raise you two roommates are.

My parents. It's the new lane. If the quarterbacks used to be braided and Manning, and they did their commercials. How do you get to the commercials now? I wanted to ask that dude a thousand questions about the opportunities that are coming this kid's way because, hell, man, we're so desperate for a healthy quarterback. Josh Dobbs was our guy for a minute.

I remember that.

It's totally crazy. But then you game plan for Josh Dobbs, these jobs are hard. We don't know what we're doing at the position. No one knows who's good. But you know how you get good? You got to get seven straight opportunities. Good luck with that, kid. That's where your contract is. Seven straight opportunities. You got to get them all. Everyone's got to get hurt. Or DeVito, we never see him. Never talk about him. Don't know anything about him. On, brock Purdy, I don't know what he is, but he might be MVP of the league if San Francisco can stay healthy enough and have all of the passing numbers.

He is now second-favored according to the sportsbooks out there, DraftKings sportsbook, Doc Prescott, with his recent performance over the Eagles, has taken a slight lead over Brock Purdy, but those are the two favorites.

Right now. Another quarterback who needs a lot of things to be perfect, and in Dallas, a lot of things look like they're perfect.

But Doc Prescott- To be fair, we know that Doc Prescott with this year compared to previous years, we know that he needs a lot of things to be perfect. We're just assuming that given the history of Kalshanehans offense, but we don't have tape of Brock Purdy in a different system.

We don't know that anyone can do it because Trey Lance couldn't and he had the skill set. But my point still stands on this position. The people who are in charge, they don't know either. They don't. They're all guessing and they're playing probability.

I believe that you and Stalato.

Said that. It is crazy. I found it interesting how his agent got me thinking, How many third-stream quarterbacks are there out there right now that genuinely in their team are like, I just need my shot?

Well, we're going to see.

Them all. Because we've mocked... We're like, Oh, Davido, this guy came out of nowhere. But he's been sitting there like, Just give me my chance and I'm.

Going to be the next guy. Browning, too. But if Burrow had been healthy the next game, Browning's chance would have been done. He got one chance, and then he got a second chance. You need to get seven of them in a row because the job seems hard. It seems like hard to do. But Josh Dobbs didn't make it look hard because no time to prepare for Josh Dobbs. He doesn't know his teammates' names. We don't know what he's going to do. This is a military complex in terms of strategy. Belichick will strangle you. He will strangle even Justin Herbert every time. Justin Herbert doesn't know what it… Because that defensive coach is also paid, and he's got to get his money. These people are working a world that's are competitive. Let me get back to Twoa, though. I said to Chris Long, Well, this is the way that I would do it. I assume happiness is something that Toa would value. I assume that Toa is seeing everything that the rest of us are seeing and seeing, This is a pretty good place where they support me. I worked for Flores. That didn't feel very good.

I almost ended my career because of how miserable I was. I see that I have a certain value, and everyone else can argue about whether I'm MVP or the 12th best quarterback. But here they seem to get me. I've got a coach I trust. I've got franchise stability, and I don't have to play the way that Zach Wilson is doing it in New York, whether the organization… Man, say a little bail on you in a minute if you cost him his job. So do I have organizational stability? If I'm two, I'm like, Man, winning seems fun. Happy seems fun. I'll take less, whatever, because I'm putting a down payment on happy because I'd like the next three years if I get concussed, I'm risking my brain. I'm risking my brain for this. I'd like it to be happy.

But isn't that the happiness, though, is knowing that I'm risking all this, so I'm going to be compensated accurately, as opposed to me giving a.

Discount for the short term? Fine. But he has seen. Look, man, Floors is a Belichick disciple. Floors really didn't like to support Tua, or think he was any good in a way that's obvious. But the new coach gets here and says, Get me Tyrae Hill. I've got an answer for you. I do it a new way. I'm not doing it the way Bellachect does. I like his division done a different way. I'm an ally. I'm a secretary. How can I help you? I'm a leader, but how can I help you? How can I make you better? Look, you and me are going to do this together. I'm a teacher. I'm with you. As long as I'm secure, you're secure. Then it becomes a relationship, then it becomes love, then it becomes fun. Then when you lose, it hurts together. But Toa gets half his money, and they're going to keep trying to give Tyreke Hill his money. They're going to keep trying. Man, I don't know. I will tell you now that if I had to do some things over again, as we did them at ESPN, I would not do many of them over again because I had to feel the pain of the last two years to get stronger and understand what happy looked like and what the cost of it was, what the price.

Really? Yes. Hold on.

Really? Yes. You wouldn't say?

I don't know about that. No, I would not change. I'll tell you why I wouldn't change it. I would not change what I did because the suffering has now gotten to a point where it's made me stronger. But the last two years have been an unholy hell. I was pushed into that position, at least in part, because they took out one of our guys. When they did that and tempted me to do it myself, I said, Okay, after okay, I'll do it myself. But self-employment is hard. It is hard. Now the responsibility of 44 people and the media industry is falling apart, and can you get to something stronger and happier? Can I make these people believe in what we're doing enough that I care about their families, that I care about the responsibility of this? Can I make them feel loved in this environment so we're not fighting over money?

Let me ask you this question. If a genie came by and said, Hey, I could take you back to, what was it? 2017, when everything was cool at ESPN or cooler.

Than it- I'd spend more time with my brother. I'd quit and I would spend more time with my brother. That's what I would do if you gave me a genie. If you gave me a genie and I'd write books with my brother, and I'd do cartoon books, and I'd do art with my brother, and I'd do a business with my brother that I was trying to get to. That's how I would answer that question.

I'd wish for Cam Ward to transfer to Miami.

What's the.

Story there? We'll find out today.

But you are... Rick Ross is involved?

Rick Ross was at Prime 112. There was a photo. Miami is choosing between two top quarterbacks in the portal. It's either going to be Will Howard or Cam Ward.

It's Miami's choice?

There's a deadline today. Someone's got to make a choice. They rate both, and it's a good position for Miami to be in. We'll find out. No matter what, it presents an upgrade over Tyler Van Dykou. Congratulations. We just found out yesterday he was transferring to Wisconsin.

I'm going to be honest. I don't think that Genie in 2017 would know who Cam Ward was.

I mean, with the COVID year, he might have been in Houston. I got to look it up. I was also looking up the Tommy DeVito Heisman campaign that never was.

Well, you mentioned Wisconsin. You know that when they were in Illinois, he beat them real bad, and then they fired their coach, right? Just to bring it back to Tommy DeVito. Cam Ward was 15 at the time. If a genie is presenting you with 15-year-olds, stay away from that genie.

Not the way your mustache looks right there. You look like someone that I could incriminate on that front. Is that a different mustache? That's a different mustache. That's a different... No, it's not.

Yes. No, I'm pretty sure it's the same one.

I think it's the same. I think it's the same. You're gaslighting us. Styled different. Thicker.

What?

Yeah, you just.

Brush it differently. I mean, is what I'm saying ridiculous, though? The idea of Toa understanding with his coach that organizational stability is something worth valuing, that they clearly helped make him better, and he values that.

Yes, but also, like we said, he puts his brain on the line every Sunday, and I think that's a different calculus. It's not like an NBA player taking less so they can get.

Good teammates. I understand, but it's still the difference between $200 million and $100 million. It's a big difference, but what's the cost of happy? I'm dead serious on this. I'd pay that if I had it.

For happy. I'm paying a lot for happy and Cam. Don Lebertard. Chris Cody does an impression. Just be careful.

It's a dangerous game. I don't.

Want to play this game.

No, he was saying, Man, I could do such a.

Great Kenrae. No, I don't want to play this game.

He's like, Man, I.

Could talk to you if you don't like him. This is who we're going.

To trust with this. Let's let Ameen do it, I think.

Stugats.

I think you could do it, Chris, because you did a great Charles Barkley.

You're one-for-one there. Did no one just hear the segment we just did with Ameen?

We cannot be taking counsel.

From the local drunk on whether or not you should do the impersonation of a black man stumbling over his words. You don't see the bad chart in that.

There was. Moses Moody. Moody, Moses. Moses, Moody.

It.

Sounds worse.

Chris, be careful, man.

We cannot do this. It's too close to the line. This is where the line is. Something legitimately funny can't be funny because we're scared our Ginger is going to do something racist by accident.

Carry the hell on, Dan. Rachel?

Dan, the line is where we.

Feel alive, though. This is The Dan Levator Show.

With the.

Stoo Gats.

All right, here we go.

What was that?

It's bringing the energy in.

Well, we'd already started the segment, though.

You're supposed to count us in.

No, we start when the good material appears, and you just did what to get the energy? Are you trying to change the energy in the room? It's been a clunky... It's been an awkward hour here, and we've been moving fast. I got to explain something to people. Mike Ryan is the executive producer of the show. In a few months, he's not going to be the executive producer of the show. This is a stressful environment, although it doesn't look like it. A lot of work goes into not making a stressful environment. I would like more often for there to be sparks creatively. I would like that. But you don't want too many sparks because things catch flames when there are.

A lot of- No, it's been a rough week. But thankfully, I just auditioned a new agent, and I am hiring John Stalato as my media agent. There you go. We'll see where the future takes us. We're very excited about this after a meeting at the Bing-Bing room or whatever.

Me too.

At Michael's at.

Brooklyn, I wore my most Italian shirt, and I didn't tell him about it because I.

Put it out I'm telling you all. Yeah, thanks. Okay, go sit in the penalty box and create a look at me, Luigi, for me, please, for Charlotte.

I'm not worried about how this will be produced and how cultural, appropriation-y it'll feel.

There is a real opportunity for Tommy DeVito and his agent to grab some marketing dollars here in a way that is fun and funny.

This is insanity vibes, I guess. The sample in this season, I know it felt longer than it was because there were multiple games. But if you compare what an NFL season was, the percentage of Tommy DeVito being a thing has already matched the percentage of Jeremy Lin in his season of being a thing. Tommy DeVito, I think at the very least, has set himself up for life with paid appearances and autograft signings and being just a local legend just from these.

Last two weeks. But he's not going for comedy. He's not. His mind, he wants to be a starting quarterback. He's probably thinking, I think people think I'm a joke.

Yeah, I say this with respect. There's, I think, a rightful amount of skepticism over these last two weeks, but he's NFC Player of the Week. On the other side, Zach Wilson is the other Player of the Week, and we have our minds made up about him. I don't know if anybody projects Tommy DeVito to be one of these regular starters in the NFL, but I would love it. I don't think this gets old.

For me. That was the question I wanted to ask because Dan kept saying like, Oh, you got all these Italian opportunities. I was going to say, Hey, man, is there any part of this where you're like, Whoa, my client is legitimate. He should get opportunities, marketing and otherwise because he's a good player, not because.

He's Italian. And maybe, but they gave Daniel Jones the money. Now the hustlers got to find their money where the money is. The money is guaranteed. This is when players say, This is about politics. I never got my shot. This is how it happens. Do you understand what I'm watching football on Sundays? What I believe I am watching is, hey, 70th best quarterback in the league when there are only really nine guys who can do this well. Drop back in the pocket. I'm going to throw machetes at you, and I'm going to throw cleavers at you, and do this really fast. From the end-zone view, anybody watching this would say, Oh, shit, that's Miles Garrett in two seconds. This job is impossible. Do it quickly. Do it well. Do it fast. Right off the bat, be good at it. No reps. Look like Aaron Rogers, Zach. That's what the standard is. The jets now. The jets. The standard is look as good as Aaron Rogers, who lands four plays and fall down. Every game, it's going to be machetes and cleavers. Machetes and cleavers. Are you good at this? Are you not good at this?

We've got no time to decide. Not in the pocket where you got to throw it in two seconds, not with our organization because you know who's going to get fired if Daniel Jones isn't the quarterback, everybody. Like, if Daniel Jones isn't the quarterback, who loses their job? All your protection. And so when that's the pressure cooker, and as an added bonus, all the people in management don't know how to identify quarterbacks, the best and biggest winner ever, 45 years old. No one wanted him. Not even the coach who now looks like a bum who was a genius because he had him. They don't know how to do this. All of them are hurt. I saw an article in The Ringer. What's happening with this epidemic? What can we do about quarterbacks getting hurt everywhere? He's not play football.

Yeah.

There you go. That's what you can not have any of.

Them play football.

That's not an option. That's not an option. That's option B. Let's try.

Another option. I'm super into Prime football on Thursday with Easton, Stick versus Aden O'Connor.

But the question made me laugh because The Ringer is asking, What happened this year to the quarterbacks? And my answer was, Football. Football happened to all of them. You can't keep changing the rules. You can't hit them in the legs. You can't hit them in the head. But last week, CJ Strad, we were excited about him for a few games. Now you go in the concussion protocol. We've been arguing about Justin Herbert.

I'm still excited about CJ Strad. Yeah. Okay, I just want to say.

Is it possible that maybe they made the rules so much so that quarterbacks aren't used to getting hit? So now they're so soft because they haven't been getting hit that any time they get hit, they're extra fragile?

Whoa. Billy, you're a galaxy-brained.

You have another mustache on.

That's the same mustache, Chris. You're an idiot.

Billy, I do want-.

He's got a massive point here, right? This is my cell phone case philosophy, right? When you have a case on your cell phone, you're a lot more reckless. But if you don't have a case on it, now you're more cautious. Same thing here. It's like, Hey, if I have all of these rules protecting the quarterbacks, when you actually get hit, it's like, Oh, what was that all about? Guys, 20 years ago, we weren't going through this as much. Billy, I'm with you on this.

Let's explore this. Before you know what? You're going to get down, you get down or you're going to get hit. Now it's like, I'm going to fake get down, and then I'm going to get drilled, and I'm going to get an extra 15 yards, but also I'm out for the season. Drop the dookie.

Minshu loves doing that fake get-down stuff.

Minshu loves getting hit, though, if we're going to be real. Minshu and Baker love getting hit. They wake up and they're like, I want to get hit. I think they sometimes walk out into traffic, hoping to get hit.

Yeah, Baker's got that about him. No doubt. Come back player of the year.

I feel like Minchu is the next Ryan Fitzpatrick. We're going to see Minchu for the next 10 years just being the guy that can get you four games.

Then we're going to have him on the show and anger him.

Yeah, ask him about a water.

Slide that he wants down. It's a great lane, and that's such a great example. Think about all the teams that went trying to beat braided, thought Fitzpatrick was the answer for 20 years. All of the ones in the division thought, Well, I don't know, he had some good games with the Bills. Let's do this for 10 years. Let's see how this goes because we don't know anything about who's a good quarterback. Minchu, I've seen him throw for 400 yards. Menchou will play until he's 39. Menchou is going to do what Flacko just did. You understand that what's happening in that sport is all of them are being thrown into a meat grinder to fight over money, and we don't know who the good quarterbacks are. We analyze the sport, by the way, more than any other thing that we analyze in our lives. I have a Gairner, Minchou phone case now. Don't kick me out. Please don't kick.

Me out. I'm not going to. I'm not going to. A lot of psych ags today. I have an audio audience.

Speaking of psych ags- It was a mustache.

Stuck on the back of my phone.

There-there you go.

Theater of the.

Mind Charlotte. Also, the timing is a little...

Well, we'll get there.

Billy's mustache, I want you to be dressed like that. I want to create a commercial around Billy's buys. I want you to be dressed like that and you to sell some of the weird things that you like to buy because.

You're-i don't like how this is being presented. What is that supposed to mean, weird things that I like to buy? Also, if I was truly in character and this was the era, I'd be super confused by half the things that I was selling.

What is a dream? This is the thing, though.

A beam comes out of this portal?

I don't understand the purchases you're making these days or the things that are interesting to you to make. I shouldn't say they're weird. I think you're unusual and you buy unusual things.

Okay, and that didn't clear anything up or make anything better. He also bought clearly the worst gift at our White Elephant Exchange. What was that? -what was that? Well, first of all, they were all anonymous, I'd just like to say. So you have no way of knowing for certainty what the gift was that I purchased. He bought a kid's toy. There were no kids at this thing. Well, I bought Crocadile Dentist. Why is that a bad gift? It's a fun game. Where is it? We could play it on the app. I actually ended up with it for my kid because Coogs didn't want it.

Coogs got done dirty. Did you see?

And Greg Cody. -and Greg Cody. -greg Cody had his gift stolen.

About nine times. I've never seen something like that. I've done Secret Santa every year for many, many years. I have never seen one person get their gifts stolen a dozen times.

Well, at the end, it was just out of spite because people were stealing candles from Greg. We were chanting.

Steal.

Greg's.

Gift. -yeah, whatever he had. -steal Greg's candle.

-yeah.

Whatever you had.

If you brought a candle to that thing, come on. Frankie has all of that on video that I'm sure he's never going to watch again.

Well, you say that, but I've never seen anyone enjoy anything the way our head of security, Frankie, enjoyed other people stealing.

I kept.

Reminding, Hey, you can steal. S-steal. S-steal.

The echoing sound. First time it happened, he put someone in a headlock, which is great. We're like, Frankie, no, this isn't the type of stealing we're preventing.

Good stealing.

It's loud today. What happened, though, to the fine bucket money? Get back on.

That case. Our head of security, you remember when I say that self-employment is hard that at the very beginning of this, I was paying someone a thousand dollars a day in security of my own money because we didn't know how to secure our building after the insurrection.

In fairness, there were no incidents.

Yes, but there was a line of people who wanted security work saying, Wait, they're paying $1,000 a day over there because Dan's got to protect the Clevelander from insurrectionists. Frankie.

I feel like if we revisit that, the Clevelander was probably low on the list of targets after the I don't know about that. There's probably 10 or 12 stops at least in between.

There was plenty of stuff on social media that made us think we should probably.

Get security. Billy, it was the capital building. Number two, the Cleveland.

My whole thought was, Well, if they could do this to the capital building, for sure they can handle the Clevelander.

In the difficulties of self-employment that are more complicated than you might imagine, also, we got out of the Clevelander a few weeks after gunplay was all over the place and someone died in the lobby of the hotel. Well, a worker died in the lobby because someone was just shot. And so when I talked- I was there. Yeah, it was there. I was there. You were there that night? You were at the Clevelander.

That night? That night because I was supposed to do my SiriusXM radio show.

How many people can back this story?

Well, no, I left because the funniest thing, I left because I decided I'd rather do it in my room and then commercial breaks, lie down on my bed. That's the only reason I went back. I didn't want to be sitting in the chair for three hours. But at that point, my plan was I'm just going to work through the night. I'm going to just do it right here in the studio.

We've lost our way. Frankie, during the gift exchange, our head of security has never been so happy.

The old sidetrack. Yeah, someone was murdered in our office. Just moving on. Sorry about that. I was there.

So the white elephant.

Yes, thank you. Things have gotten... They've gotten intense.

And Dan, props to you for getting us back on track.

Yeah. Normally, most people would want to chase that whole murder thing, but not you. Let's get back to White Elephant.

And Frankie's Joy, our head of security. Frankie, as Mike Ryan peppered Greg Cody with 10 versions of his favorite song and my holiday song. What was the name... That song, what was the name of that song? It's inundated me. You hit him with it like ten times every time.

Taylor's for sale.

Okay, now go ahead. -room to let 50's sense.

-right.

So here's Frankie. I'm going to do.

A Frankie. Keep going. He usually goes, I'm Greg Cody.

And that's- You have to steal.

Keep stealing. -i'm in my day.

-you can steal his gift. Steal it. Steal it. Don't live a tart. I got somebody here making fun of me. How old do you have to be to reference Jackie Green? Man, I went comedically there with the funny name of a comedian. That's on you for not knowing who Shaq-ie Green is. You got to know who Shaq-ie Green is. You don't have to know who Shaq-ie Green is, but I- He's your ally. No, I don't like my allies here. I think of the Borch Belt- Stugaz. I have the soul of a Borch Belt comedian. I should be in the.

Catskills in 1945 opening for Shecky Green. That's who I was destined to be. This is the Don Levitar Show with the Stugaz.

Hello, Robb. I am starting right now. I have not talked to you in a while, and we are on the air. And before we get to very serious subject matter, I've got a problem that I need your help with. You are a human being who has made a comedy career out of the democracy of comedy now on Twitter. You're just wildly, wildly funny. But you have written a book, and we've talked about some of the subject matter. Rob Delaney, for those of you who do not know, is the creator of catastrophe. He is the creator of the show Catastrophy, which is very popular. And if you have humor and relationships, it's a really honest look at relationships that's wildly funny. It's one of the most inventive television shows that I have seen in a while. And as his life fell apart, he had the strength to write one of the great comedy works on television and realized during that time. And sorry, Rob, to speak for you. I've read the book. You're a friend. I consider you a friend. And so I will tell the people- Thank you. I will tell the people that you did a proud and brave thing by writing a book about the worst pain a human being could possibly feel.

And you did this after gaining the life perspective of, Yeah, I had hit comedy, but I was a shitty husband, and I needed to be a more present father. And you realized very overtly, I'm working and success and comedy, yeah, they're important, but family matters more and love matters more. And this is serious subject matter because you lost your son in a way, obviously, that is tortuous. And I've got in my studio an old-timey baseball player with a ridiculous mustache who's going to be in on our show. And we're like, Yeah, so help me. Can you help me? How do I navigate the serious subject matter in this book? And hey, let's be funny and entertaining.

Well, I would say we can jettison the need to do that, right? Because if you feel the confidence that what you're talking about is worthwhile, then humor can happen. But if you try too hard, then it won't be fun. I mean, not that I'm not going to try to be funny, obviously, about this book, but it is empirically funny that we have an old time baseball player in there. Maybe it might not be if I didn't know you, but since I do, it makes it funny to me. So we could, I guess, start there.

Okay, but the awkwardness of doing interviews about this. You and I have talked about how transactional some of this stuff is, and you're now on tour selling a book in which you're talking about the greatest possible pain. And the interviews aren't going to be human. It's going to... I mean, you're going to provide the humanity within the artifice of television, but you've been navigating serious subject matter, and you're a comedian. You're also a serious actor, but you're a comedian. I think your greatest strength is you're funny.

Well, thanks. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Life is so insane. And in the buffet of life, there's so many weird meals on offer that any human life is going to be a collision of things that are wonderful and funny and excruciatingly painful and seemingly endless and hilarious and things that make you horny and things that make you want to go hide under a rug. So yeah, that said, promoting the book hasn't been the most organic, normal feeling thing in the world because you want to get it out there in the way to get any piece of media out there. You got to promote it. So it has felt weird. Yes, you're right about that. Because this book is different. This isn't a book about aliens taking over Arkansas. It's not a book about a historical, I don't know, earthquake cleanup rescue thing that turned into a romance. It's the story of my son and he died. So yeah, it has been strange. The salve on the pain of promoting it is that the book has gotten in front of loads of bereaved parents and siblings and people who can really use it. So this is the first thing I've ever promoted where I'm like, okay, if I do this, then this is going to happen.

Meaning if I promote it, yes, painful, then somebody who lives in a suburb of Tallahassee can get the book because they hear about it. Whereas I live in the middle of London, I can walk to a bereaved parent's meeting because I live in a thrumming megalopoulous. But what if you can't? You need tools to help you. I hoped that this book could be a tool like that. And through promoting it, more people who could use it can read it.

It's a New York Times bestseller. It's a heart that works. It's out now in paperback. I have not talked to you since this happened to me. I will tell you that the places that you and I talked about the loss of your son at the time that we talked about it. I didn't even know my brother was sick when we had that conversation. And in the time since then, my brother has died. I will tell you- Jesus. -that the pain of that has been... I don't know what your pain is exactly, right? I can't possibly know, even though you've written a book. But I feel like I lost a son because I raised him.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's brutal, and I'm glad that you are talking about it. I'm so incredibly sorry. I'm glad that you're crying and that people can hear that because the pain.

Truly is. There's an old-time baseball player here, Robb. Yes, thank you. I can't cry in front of these people. Do you know how weak it is? Do you know? I'm a blubbering idiot, Robb. I need this to be funny. Look, there's a new timey baseball player.

Robb. I know. I know. And it's very interesting because parents get all the... I don't know, attention, when their kid dies and people say, oh, that's the worst thing that could happen. And all right, maybe it is. It's the worst thing I could have ever imagined. But then I watched my son's brothers, his two older brothers, and the one that was born. My wife was pregnant also when our son died. So we've had a forced boy. And helping these boys who were just three little peas in a pod. I have hundreds of pictures of the three of them in Henry's hospital bed. Henry, the youngest, two years older is the next brother, and then two years above that is the other one. And what are they doing without their little compatriate, their little partner in crime, their little nugget? And so watching a brother's mourn, a brother, has been very difficult. And I don't know, a f*cking up privilege because it's so beautiful to see these brothers express the love and grief that they feel and felt this amazing boy. It's heavy, heavy shit.

Can you explain to people? Because I'm optimistic that this might be so, and I've felt some soothing. It's only been a few months, but I have felt, while carrying around what I would say is a physical weight of sickness in my stomach, like I can feel it that does not lessen, and it's there as soon as I wake up in the morning. I can hope. In hope that this is going to have lessons of growth on the other side of the pain. I can see it from here, but life's happening all around me in a number of different ways that interrupt my grief. Are you stronger now and more balanced? And do you have a better relationship with life? Is that the gift he left you?

I hesitate to encapsulate it, especially to you, somebody experiencing acute grief. Your brother, it's fair to say, just died. So I wouldn't want to blow smoke up your ass and waste your time and also dishonor the very appropriate pain that you're feeling. So on paper, the answer is yes. Acute grief makes way for long-term grief, where the excruciating waves of often physical pain may come with more time between them as time goes on. So a day will come where when you think about your brother, your first physical instinct will be a smile. And then often it'll be tears. So yeah, I could say that, and it's true. But part of what I wanted to do with the book was not tell people that there was hope or give them maxims or sayings or any nonsense like that. People could take hope away from the book. Another mustache. Fantastic. Thank you for your assortment of mustaches.

Well, this is the thing. It's distracting. Rob, I want to laugh with you. Rob, I want to laugh with you, and I want to talk about the serious stuff because I think you have genuine knowledge for me here, right? I have found so little solace in the words of anybody. I found so little bomb, but I also have a guy in the back who's dressed like an old-time baseball player, and I can't do both of these things at once.

Right. But I, honest to God, think that the absurdity of that is a very helpful thing. A lot of people would say, I don't know if there were some fucking grief intimacy coordinator or something, they'd be like, you know what? Why don't we not have mustache guy there? Why don't we? I think it'd be better if maybe... And no, because shit gets interrupted. You learn in my book, I say that some of the first times we laughed after Henry died were in dealing with the funeral home guy, the undertaker who helped with Henry. And his name was Barry White. And we just couldn't...

Couldn't... You know... So laughter and grief go well together. And the laughter doesn't mean that you're not grieving.

Laughter, because of what I remember about him, laughter ends up, even when I'm laughing, reminding me of the physical pain, Rob, because it jostles the physical pain. And so now I can be laughing at whatever's been said to me, and it is a reminder my brother's gone.

Yeah, and it'll be like that for I don't know how long, a while. That's why I didn't want to say, Yes, there's sunshine around the corner. Because they forget. They forget that your beautiful brother died. They remember, and then they forget and fuck them. You don't forget. And people will want you to move on. And you do that at your own speed. And you never really do move on. You weave the stories of your brother and the memories of your brother and the pain, if you feel must be, you weave that into your life. You weave that into happier memories to come. And how and why wouldn't you? So it'll hurt. You will love him forever. He'll be your brother forever. How do you communicate with him? I don't know. I don't know where he is, but he's somewhere.

Oh, but wait. There's a lot we don't know here, but are you spiritual enough to feel Henry's presence? Or are you brooding and the pain is so big that there is no way that you will believe in anything that brings you that loss? You will not believe that that can keep existing and reach you because it's gone and it's gone forever and the pain is not?

My spiritual beliefs are basically that Henry isn't Henry as I know him anymore. This is how I feel. Because I loved him and because I love him, I don't want him to be in some physical paradise where he's still him, because that would be boring for me. Christ, when I die, I want to get obliterated, not destroyed, but pour it into the big cosmic smoothie where we all mix and mingle and all that. So it's not my job to know where he is or understand where he is. God, help us, God. If we could even begin to understand what comes next with these insane minds, these useless, swollen frontal lobes filled with fucking recipes and street jokes and sport stats. Jesus, that mind can't communicate with him.

Don't disrespect sport stats, all right? There, you cross the line there. Like, please, have some goddamn respect, please.

Here, my wife the other day says to me, she goes, because part of my midlife crisis is listening to a lot of Steely Dan and reading books about Steely Dan, et cetera. And the other day, I just had a distant look in my eyes. And my wife goes, Are you thinking about Steely Dan? And I said, Yeah. And she goes, There's like a man with a shovel, and I can hear him in your mind, shoveling important memories like our marriage, the birth of our kids into a furnace to make room for Steely Dan fun facts. We both had a good laugh because that is what is happening inside my head right now.

But I'm sorry I interrupted you. You were in the middle of something thoughtful. Again, I can't help but notice there's an old-timey baseball player in the back.

Yeah. I mean, look, can he communicate with me through a medium that I give $30 to on a boardwalk at the beach? I hope not. That would suck for him. Yeah, I might want to talk to him in the English language that we used. But for me, I see him in his mother's eyes, in his brother's back of their necks when they're asleep, in the pain that I feel. I woke up the other morning crying from a dream that a doctor was telling me about the circumstances of his death. Henry died at home, but I had a nightmare that he died in the hospital, and a doctor was just telling us what happened. And I woke up sobbing. And in a way, that felt good because it's been almost six years since he died. So I felt very grateful that I could be just body-slammed by a very painful memory of my son who I should be raising. He should be eight years old now, you know what I mean? And riding a bike around too fast and me chasing him saying, watch out for whatever. And are you kidding me with all that candy you ate?

And come over here and sit on my lap. And he's like, I'm eight. I don't want to. I don't care. I had you so that you would sit on my lap, get your ass over here. That's what should be happening. And it isn't, and that hurts. And it should. It should hurt. So you should be sad as hell right now. It should have a major physical component in acute grief. And that's one of the ways right now that you love your brother is through feeling that pain. And will it dissipate and change in the coming months and years? Yeah, it will. And then it'll come back again, and then it'll go away again.

You really petered out there.

I did, yeah. I was thinking.

About the mustache. Yeah, I thought you were thinking about Steely Dan. He's the author of a New York Times bestseller. It's called A Heart That Works. It's out now in paperback. Let's talk about it more long form. I actually haven't talked to you in a minute, and I need your help with some of this stuff because I've been isolating. I don't know what you did, I don't know if you kept working. I don't know how you managed what you managed, but I haven't been talking to anybody about this stuff because it hurts too much. And it sounds like you have some wisdom. So thank you, sir. I appreciate your time.

Oh, no, it's great. I'm happy to do it. I will have to pick up some Alive kids from school shortly. So I can't talk for too terribly long. But I could call in another time.

That would be fun. All right. No, you're leaving. That was very dark. You went through - No, not now. See you later.

Not now, but I mean, in five minutes.

All right.

See you later. All right, see you later.

Please close with a shot on Billy's face.