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Welcome to the Big Sui, presented by Draftkings.

Why are you listening to this show?

The podcast that seems very similar to the other Dan Lebatard podcast.

I'm sorry.

I'm not gonna apologize for that. In fact, the. The only difference seems to be this imaging.

I have been tempted in restaurants, just walking past tables to grab somebody's fries if they're just there. That hasn't happened to you guys.

I've done it. And now here's the marching man to nowhere, fat face and the habitual liar. We'll get to Mike Ryan's hockey takes here in a second, but I gotta interrupt the show with some sad news. One of the great actors, Louis Gossett junior, has passed away. Cause of death is unknown, but he is a cancer survivor. He had prostate cancer about 15 years ago, so he passed away at the age of 87. Is this one of those, like, generational things?

Yeah, it might be. Might be. I remember most from officer and gentleman.

You won an Oscar in that role. The first black actor to win in a supporting, supporting, best supporting actor Oscar.

File, by the way, that still holds.

Great movie. Carries her out. My man Richard Gere carries her out at the end. And we get love. Lift us up where we belong. Great song.

And that's your third song of the day.

You're just gonna dominate this. No one else here has seen officer and a gentleman tangentially. How? How do you tangentially see officer in a gentleman?

Yeah.

What, like, you've heard other people talk about it? I've heard other people. I know other people that have seen it. You know what happens in it? There's an officer and a gentleman. He's one in the same. Yeah. What type of officer? He's a naval officer, of course, as all good officers are, because I was certainly hoping you thought he was like a highway patrolman.

He's seen it.

And gently. I have no other people who have seen it. And they've told me, hey, I've seen it. So that way I've seen, well, thank you tangentially. Watching a movie is now canon for this show.

Thank you.

A more, I guess recent memory would be he was in the watchman, the excellent HBO miniseries that I believe you can catch on Max right now, the.

Watch, I mean, you were, you are such a man that you just simply don't want to answer no to that question. You don't want to, you don't want to admit that you haven't seen it. No, I've heard rather he doesn't get it that the question was to the back row, has anyone seen it? And your answer was, I've seen it tangentially. You know, was a perfectly acceptable answer. It's an older movie, not tangentially.

What about roots? Has anyone seen roots?

Wait a second, now you're changing the, the rules of space and time. It is a matter of fact that it's an older movie. Not tangentially. Not an older movie. No, no. It's, it's an older movie that I've seen tangentially. Yeah. Okay.

I'm buying it. I'm, allow it. I like it. Roots, have you seen roots tangentially?

A lot of people have seen roots tangentially because they're familiar with some of the players and what goes on in it, but maybe they haven't sat down through it because generationally, you know, it wasn't airing on network television. It wasn't a network television event for people of a certain age.

Right. Like at some point you have to go, I think I bought it on Amazon because I shoved my kids roots, which is a lot more like I watched roots in high school than I remember. I watched it when I was like twelve and I was like, oh, this is the greatest show ever. And then I watch it with my kids and I'm like, maybe not appropriate for kids. Like it's like, it's very educational, but they don't pull punches on a lot of that stuff. And so at the time, I think my kid was, my oldest was nine. I was like, wait, why do these white people hate black people? I'm like, well, sit down.

Let me, well, well, let me explain.

Something to you about the world the way it was and the way it continues to be. But Louis Gossett Junior, again, amazing actor and not just a movie actor, but also tv and theater. And this, I mean, look, this is where about a month and some change after.

Yeah. Couple Carl Weathers, black icons.

Yeah.

Like black Hollywood icons, most certainly great gentlemen.

Right. It's not just a great thespians, great actors, but also great ambassadors and officers.

Yeah. Did you do the punisher on, on Cinephile?

Not yet. Not yet. Maybe, maybe, maybe soon.

While he's got some bangers, he's also got certain cinephobe worthy films.

He was also on Boardwalk Empire.

Yeah. Okay.

So there you go. So, yeah. Rip. Wow. Rip. My man, Lewis Gossett, he took some bad roles. Yeah. No, look, man, you got it. You got to pay bills. Enemy mind, as Vanessa Carlton will attest to, you gotta pay bills. Somehow, some way.

You couldn't have been more wrong about that.

No, tangentially, I was right.

Thank you. Integras, how did you celebrate the Florida Panthers clinching a playoff spot?

Yeah.

Like, are the Panthers your hockey team? You don't really have one, do you? Or do you rep the New York teams?

You know, like, I'll be honest with you, I used to, when I was in college, I was like, oh, yeah, I'm a Rangers fan. I just like the jersey. And so that was all that it was. Now I really don't have one about the coyotes. I don't really. They look not.

I wouldn't also get like two. I wouldn't fall too in love with the coyotes.

Don't even have a building as well.

Have you gone to a big. Close to the ice when you see them?

Right?

I did. I've been to a Coyotes game. No, where they're playing now is Arizona State arena, which, ironically, is a lot closer to where I live.

I imagine that's a cool experience, watching them. And I got 2000 seat menu.

That building is not good. Yeah, that building's not good. Like, not good for professional sports. It's a great.

Oh, it's getting terrible reviews from players around the league. But in terms of a fan, like, where do you get to see a hockey game at a college campus?

But again, once again, like, it's not like the other arena was so sold out. Couldn't get good seats. You could get great seats at. In Glendale.

Yeah, they're a relocation candidate.

It just hasn't worked. And I know there's a very rabid hockey fan base in Arizona, but the reality is economics does not support having them in state.

All right, so you can be. You can be a Panthers guy.

Yeah. So I got the pandas jacket. I got the black history month jacket, which everywhere I go gets head turns and compliments. People love that jacket. It's a really cool jacket. I won't lie like, I thank you, Mike, for bringing it to my attention. I thank my friends at the Panthers for helping me get it before when it was still kind of like, this is a limited item.

I took off the fuzzy collar. Really?

No, gotta keep the fuzzy collar.

I don't got the chutzpah. I have a question for you as a former front office person, and maybe you know the answer to this and maybe you don't.

Wow.

So I saw that Nelson Cruz, baseball player, signed a one day contract to retire as a Seattle mariner. He played for a billion teams. Yeah. Now, did anyone, when you were, when you were with Phoenix, did any of them sign one day contracts? And then also, is there a financial component to that, like, in any way?

So the. I'll answer this the second question first. Yes. If they actually sign him, meaning he's on the roster and gets the, like. All right, one last time. So I wasn't there when this happened, but I want to say Dan Marley got a one day contract with the Suns at the end of his career to kind of go out on a. On a high note. I've never experienced it. I've never been around for something like that. But, like, when you do the math, because the cap is not going to be his full salary, whatever it is, minimum salary, it's going to be 1100. You know, however, whatever the math is, in the NBA, it's one 110th of minimum salary, which is a day's worth of work. And that's what he'd be on the books for. Cause they'd sign him to a non guaranteed deal.

So it's not, like, strictly ceremonial. Like they actually would get a check to sign and then retire.

I would say it's a nominal check. And that's why you don't see teams in the luxury tax, like, oh, let's add on another. Cause that matters. It multiplies. But for a regular team, sure, why not?

Wait, hold on a second.

So if you, like, were a great of a team, but they're under the.

Cap, they're like, listen, we'd love for you to retire as part of this.

Team, but we can't afford it this.

Year if you're a tax, tax paying team. Absolutely. Cause I. So sometimes it is ceremonial, Billy. Sometimes it's just a press conference and they hold up the jersey and everyone. And they never. They're not actually. But sometimes they do when they have them in the dugout, for instance, or on the bench, and they get. Come in one last time and the announcer says, now checking into the game, Billy Gill. And everyone goes crazy and you wave and there's one play and then they sub you back out like, yeah, that's a real contract. And that has real money attached to it because no one gets to play for free.

Shouldn't Nelson Cruz probably be a Ranger? Don't get, don't get me wrong. Don't get me wrong. I love Nelson Cruz, one of my favorite M's of all time.

Speaker two.

And you love the Mariners? Oh, clearly day one.

But that, that is the interesting part about this. It's not like, hey, does he get paid? Does he not get paid? The interesting part is how did he choose that the Mariners are going to be the team that's, that gets the Nelson?

Just, I think if you ask most baseball fans, close your eyes and picture Nelson Cruz, I think more people are probably picturing him in a Rangers jersey. But, okay, I can. Did he play eight games? Well, I mean, I guess if you're from Milwaukee or, I mean, it was, you might picture him.

Wouldn't it be his first team? Like my first heart? This is when I first became a major leaguer. Wouldn't that be the team he has to tackle?

I feel like for him also, and not to disrespect him, he had a great career. He played really long time.

However.

Is he a hall of famer?

No.

However, look at the numbers, though.

Steroids actually, like multiple times.

I feel like, well, then, no, with him, you kind of just, who wants.

Me to retire as them? Let's go there.

Or do you do this, Billy? Do you solicit? Do you text everyone individually? Guys, I'm retiring. I remember fondly my days with insert team blank. I'd love to have my, my last day with you guys. And then you see who comes back with the best, the best offer, because it's not just like the contract for a day, whatever, but it's also like they fly you in red carpet, you get, fly your family in. You get like a nice little buffet spread. Can I see the menu? And you say, hmm, lobster over here for, for Seattle. I'm looking at Milwaukee.

You start a bidding war like this.

Absolutely.

Retire.

Absolutely. You play also. Play or charge and then you figure it out like that. Because why would you commit to something?

Well, to close the loop, the Panthers clinched a playoff spot last night.

How?

They did so in a losing effort and regulation loss as well. Panthers, it looked like they had bounced back from what was their worst stretch of hockey this season, getting a point at what is almost certain to be, especially after last night's performance in Colorado, the president's trophy winning New York Rangers side. And then they won at Philadelphia on the back end of a back to back, a tough opponent, playoff bound opponent in Philadelphia, so it looked like they had righted the ship. Then they played Boston, who was leading in their division. They had games in hand. Tough loss. Give up a late equalizer and a late go ahead goal. Don't get any points from that one. But Boston ends up losing to the Tampa Bay Lightning the next day. So you have these games in hand. You win against the lowly New York Islanders, whose season they're still battling for playoff spot. But they. They've had some tough results lately, and they lose. It was a really surprising result. The Panthers came in pretty heavily favored in this game, and like I said, they'd been playing better hockey. I don't. I didn't even want to celebrate clinching a playoff spot.

And I understand it was pretty much a formality at this point. Their form had suggested this was inevitable. As last night showed, I never been more disappointed after a playoff clinching performance.

Isn't this a sign of, like, you made it when you don't even have to win?

Well, we are an original seven franchise at this point. Legacy brand blue bloods.

Blue bloods. Jeremy, real quick.

Under a minute.

You've developed the immune system.

Apparently I have developed the immune system. We were talking about the dentist system earlier, and this is the immune system to fix college basketball. A actually, do jump balls make sense? M make it quarters, not halves. I international three point line.

Yeah, and we're already there. And we're already there.

Congratulations.

I was right about the international three point line. That's what the I stands for.

And an NBA shot clock got fixed it.

We fixed comedy basketball. And then, like, in a couple of years, I got to do it backwards, right? The NEMA system. But this is going to fix something else. Apparently. Hey, when we come back, these MLB uniforms, are they pretty good or do they suck? You don't want to miss our thrilling conclusion.

We're not coming back.

The show's over.

Okay, never mind.

Live show's over.

Bye.

For Bridget Price, the road to love was not so straightforward. Bridgie, I forbid you from marrying that spendthrift youth. Miles Carr.

What the devil is that?

I'm setting up an n 50 video.

Account on my mobile cellular telephone, thus.

Procuring a discount on the M 50 highway toll path.

Very prudent, Mister Carr.

It seems I've misjudged you.

Eflow presents accounts and accountability. Pay your tolls automatically and get a discount with a free m 50 video tolling account at eflow, ie, Don Libertard.

You got to know I'm a big Columbo guy. Salute to that boy.

Okay, I don't think that's proof. I don't think that's proof. I think that's a lie.

I don't think that's.

That's salute. I don't think that is evidence. Salute to that boy. It suggests camouflage.

Juju has no idea what we're talking about, and now he's just googling it. Stugots.

I'm not googling it. My grandmama stayed in the country. I watched the braves. I watched Colombo, I watched Matt Locke. I watched Andy Griffin. Yeah, but you go to the pin of the box, Dan. Take your ass to the penalty box. Call me a liar.

You tell Juju.

Back to you, Stu.

This is the Dan Levitar show with these two guys.

Welcome to another edition of Wakand take ya digging, brought to you by the good folks in Jeff Kings network, also by the kid himself, and finger roll entertainment. You feel me? Salute to all the callers. I got take. Oh, my God. Got takes. I got questions. I got. I got answers. But you got a call and get it out of me, John John. But first we interview my mommy.

Hello?

Yes, I'm calling. Looking for the best mommy in the world. Hey, Mama. You are live right now on wake intake with the kid himself. How are you doing today?

Oh, my goodness. As usual, I am wonderful every time I hear your voice.

Okay, Dokie, what in? I miss you, too, Mama. I love you. What in sports, what do you think about sports right now? If you have one sports take, what do you feel right now about the world? Anywhere? In sports, I absolutely love.

What's going on with the WNBA.

Yes, ma'am. Talk about it. Who's your favorite player in the WNBA? NBA.

Oh, my goodness.

Look. Can't name one. One of them. They're having fun, right? All of them. She can't. Look, my mama can't just. She can't decide on any one specific player. She like all of them equally. I feel you. That's. That was the answer.

Oh, my goodness. I love the one that's not. That's not on. It's not on that ladies team.

Oh, Lord. What's the lady Kim okey.

The ladies name? Yeah.

Oh, Lord. Nobody you like Caitlin Clark?

Oh, my God. I love her.

Okay, okay. Well, we don't. That's. This is number one slash two, and it's wonderful. But you say you like the WNBA, and none of these precious women are in WNBA just yet. We go, oh, my God.

That's right. That's coming. That's Caroline. I'm so sorry.

It's all good. I just called to tell you in front of the whole world, I love you and I really appreciate everything you've ever done for me. And I got your back until I'm not here anymore.

Oh, my goodness. I love you so much. Did you say in front of the world?

What you say?

It's indeed in front of the world.

The world watches. Yeah.

The whole world watching this. We, you know, we're gonna get these numbers up. What does. Hey, now, that's my dad, Lewis.

What's that?

That's my dad, Lewis. What she was like? Was that Tony? Oh, that was Louis ho. I'm the Tony you that we got.

At home, you know.

Oh, nah, he definitely a great friend as well. We had a lot of good talks as well. Me, him and Tony, man, we be trying plotting the scheme in the world. Take over the world. You feel me? So, yeah, man, I just wanted to reach out to you, Mama, right quick, just to hit you up, man. I love you, Mama. I'm gonna call you back in a little while.

I love you, too.

Anything else you wanna get off your chest? And last messages.

Yes, I really wanna say this. I've been wanting to say this for four years now.

Oh, lord.

Thank you, Dan. Thank you, Dan.

Thank you, Dan.

Yes, sir. Thank you, Dan. Thank you so much, man. I love you, mama. Call you back later.

Love you, too. Okay. Okay, bye.

Next caller coming right up. Who we got? Next up, Louis Juju. What a do ski. Who am I talking to?

Ski.

This is Chris from Philadelphia. Salute to you.

All the way to victory. You got to know what's going on, man. How you doing, brother?

Good, man.

I have sleeper pick for the worst.

Fans in the country.

I'm listening.

You ready for this? This is gonna sound crazy coming from Philadelphia. Philadelphia 76 ers fans are the worst.

Fans in the United States.

Talk about they are losers.

They're entitled. They think they can win games. Sam Hinkey is an embarrassment.

I hope they lose every game going forward.

That's messed up. Not every game. What about when Joel come back? You want them to lose them, too?

Only the big ones, I guess. Only the elimination game.

Damn, man. Hey, man, ain't nothing wrong with that, bro. That's how you feel, man. You must be scoring. What happened? What brought you to this conclusion, brother?

Oh, man.

Just living in this city.

I love all the other fans in this city.

It's just those fans, they think they're entitled to wins.

Yeah, it's crazy. Well, who do you got this year for the NBA championship?

Man, it's hard to see anyone other than Milwaukee or Denver winning, right?

Man, get out of here without. We're going to move on to the next call. Thank you for your time, brother, and your energy. We really love you, bro. Appreciate you, bro. Next cost key right now.

Ski juju, it's your brother Travis. How's it going?

Hey, what it do, T Trav, how you doing today, man? I am good.

Sun is shining. Beautiful day up in Marietta, Georgia.

You doing? Hey, salute. You already know what's happening, man. Salute to the north side. In the building, man. Yes, sir. Man. How is your day today, brother?

We're good, man. We're good. Hanging out with my puppies, you know. Got the YouTube stream going. I about missed wake and take. I got busy, but I had to call. I had to call, man. I'm glad you called me back. I appreciate it.

Hey, man, it's all love, brother. What's your take, bro?

So, you know, I can't believe our boys, future and Drake are beefing, man. I don't know what you think about.

That, but given where we're from down.

Here in the a, I'm always team future.

But what you think you're right. You already know what team I'm on. I don't even give a damn about that. You already know what's happening. We ride with future no matter what. Salute to the six.

Got it.

Salute.

Gotta do it. I guess. I guess that means we don't get what a time to be alive part two, though.

I don't know, but I think this is. I think stay tuned because you never know how these rollouts go and you never know how these beefs work. And we. We gonna sell some records here or sell some records there. So I think stay tuned. Probably. But if there is a world war and if there is a civil divide, I'm stepping my ass on the future side. You did?

Yes, sir. We are the right people.

Divide. What about you, Lou? What about you, Lou? Louis on the phone with us as well.

I arrived with Juju blindly into the.

Fog of war with my boy juju.

You feel. Hey, man, thank you for your time, bro. You got anything else you want to say, brother?

That's it, man. I appreciate you so much. I appreciate all you do. You're the best. Thank you very much.

Thank you, brother. Salute.

All right, peace.

We on the line with the next caller. Who we got?

Yeah, this is Willie Green.

What up, Willie Green? Where you calling from, brother?

Calling from Virginia.

Hey, two up, two down. What's happening, man?

Yes, sir. You know, just chilling. I'm on my, on a little break from work.

Yeah.

And I saw the tweet, and I said, I got the call. Call in.

Hell, yeah, brother. Thank you for your time and your energy, man. What's your take, bro?

Let's see. I wasn't even prepared for the tape, but let me, let me come up with r1 quick. So on the beast that's going on right now. So Kendrick, Drake, and J. Cole.

Okay.

It's still the big three right now. Still the big three.

Even ten years later, they still the big three.

Still the big three.

Kendrick gotta drop more often, right, for him to be in the conversation like that?

Yeah.

Even J. Cole kinda could drop some more. You feel me? You can't say Drake ain't one of the hottest right now just based off volume.

Yeah, you right. You're right. I mean, I think. I think that the beef was we a little late to this party. You know what I mean? I feel like this would have been way better in 20 1819. I feel like you let these folks get away with murder for all these years, and now you want to pop up and say something? Now you want a response? I don't know, brother. I don't think it's necessarily the breaking news that everybody else think it is. I feel like before, finally. About time. You feel me? What about you, man? You think it's still, you think it's still breaking news? Top of the pops, huh?

Especially based off his last album. Now, I'm a Kendrick fan, like my top three, but, I mean, his last album won't really, you know.

You feel me?

Talk about it's a stealing people's playlist right now. It was, it was a great, you know, it was a good album. Yeah, but it doesn't really have a whole lot of playback to it.

You feel. I like the one with him and Kodak.

Oh, for sure. He may have been one of the best parts of the album.

Right, right. Literally. But, yeah, bro, I like, I like that take, though. You feel me? Thank you for your time and your energy, man. You got anything to say on the way out, bro?

You to go.

Hell, no. You to go, brother.

Hey, we love, we love you.

Do appreciate you, man. I really do appreciate that, dog. That means a lot to me. Next caller, who we got? This is David hey, what it do, David? Where you call him from? We calling you back. But where you call him from?

Calling from Punta Gorda, Florida.

Hey, Punta Gordon, I ain't even never heard. What is that? What are you.

It's called. It's pronounce Punta Gorda.

Actually, Brian, never heard of Punta Garda. Punta garda. Huda, I never heard of. Now one of them. So put me on what? Well, on the map is this, brother. I'm from Atlanta, Georgia.

That's around Fort Myers, brother.

Okay, cool. I heard that's what deon them from. And Greg Cody threw the baseball out there. You did? That's on the west side. West side. You dig in the building. What's your take, brother?

I just wanted to call and thank you guys for putting out an awesome show every single day.

Yes, sir.

I got a wife that's been in the hospital, in and out a lot, and I actually messaged the show on Twitter a while back, and somebody responded back. And I've just been giving you guys updates about her condition and stuff like that. So, you know, keep doing what you guys are doing. She's really, you know, not doing well health wise, but she's in a good spirit because she listens to the show every day with me.

Yes, sir. Oh, my goodness. Thank you so much for reaching out, brother. And we definitely got your wife and our prayers, man. If you want to, like, let us. Anything, let us know. Can we know her name? Is that cool?

Oh, absolutely. Her name is Layla. And it's.

Yes, sir.

If you go back in your messages on. On Twitter or X, you'll be talking to David. David Woodward.

Yes.

Me. And I think I'll pictures of her and stuff like that. So, you know, if you ever want to check it out, I'll keep you guys updated for sure. But, you know, just, I know what Dan went through and stuff like that last year or this year with his brother, so, you know. You know, so it's been tough for. Tough for both of us. But you guys, your last and everything you do, and personally, you, juju, I love you so much, man. I haven't been able to tell you, but I'm a big fan, brother.

Appreciate it, man. I'm definitely back at you, brother. And I'm definitely keeping layla in our prayers, bro. Like, this means so much more than you can even know right now. Like, for you to even share that with us, let alone reach out with these positive words, man. 100% back. Love to you, brother. Oh, my goodness. I appreciate. Appreciate you so much, brother.

Thank it you guys so much. And I'll let you get back to taking more calls. You guys have a great one.

Yes, sir.

You too.

And tell, tell our sister we love her.

We will. Definitely, sir. Thank you.

Yes, sir. Dang, man. Salute to that family, man.

Yeah, bro.

It just always keep, it reminds you to keep everything in perspective, man, and just stay blessed. And this is, let's all keep that family in our prayers if we can, man.

Don Levatard. Hey, Dave Stugats.

What up?

This is the Dan Levator show with the Stugatz.

We should say upfront that it's Charlotte's birthday because I was gonna pretend like we're running this later in the week, and so let's not acknowledge the present tense, but happy birthday, Charlotte.

Thank you so much, Pablo.

What better way to spend it?

Charlotte sat down and was immediately complaining about the ways in which her body is betraying her.

Oh, my God. Last night.

Just wait, honey.

My back just like goes into spasm. And I was lying on the floor in a heating pad. And then I woke up this morning, I was like, oh, yeah, no, I'm like, I think it's a little better. And then I went to go for a walk and it was just like shooting pain. And I was like, you know what? Welcome to 35. Welcome to 35.

I was in Amsterdam over the weekend. Oh, my God, I'm back. Cause I love you guys. And speaking of back, I carried with me two, I don't know what they're called. They're gonna sound disgusting when I say it, but like two massage balls.

Oh, like a lacrosse ball? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Just so I could plant them into my seat and lean against it, quietly massaging myself for 7 hours and 15 minutes. Cause that's kind of old. I am.

Can I tell you that there is a product that you're going to be real fired up to learn exists, and it is the equivalent of. Actually, I think it's three lacrosse balls melded together. I believe it's called a snake, but I haven't used it in a little while. But I bought it a couple years ago because I have major back issues. And it's the equivalent of having multiple lacrosse balls for either that lumbar support, or you can use it against a wall, or you can use it to foam roll when you don't want to bring a full roller with you traveling.

You just described almost every Instagram ad that I get served. Now, would you like more balls to put against your body?

Yes. Can't we be?

Actually?

Yes.

Can we be sponsored by body balls?

Can we be sponsored by a vaguely. Well, not even vaguely, just straight up, sexual sounding device that you stick into yourself to make yourself feel that much younger?

When you put it that way, I.

Don'T think you stick it in anywhere, Pablo. It's not a thing you stick into yourself. I believe that's what you just said.

And that's not what, you know, like, pressing into this.

Yeah.

Oh.

Oh, my knots, my knots.

I would say against. I would say against yourself.

It's a good distinction.

What I would recommend to literally anyone is if you have any back pain, to immediately try to figure out if you can get to the root cause. Because I had so many other injuries that when I started to have back stuff, I kind of just thought it would eventually go away. At the time, I was still playing, like, rec league, flag football, softball, beach volleyball, dodgeball, like, all the things. And when my back started hurting a lot, I was like, yeah, it's just probably another, like, thing I tweaked. I'll just wait for it to eventually get better. And that was not the right choice. So whatever's going on, try to figure out. Cause usually back pain is actually a deferral of pain from some other part of your kinetic chain that's not properly working. And your spine is basically like a bunch of jelly donuts on top of each other. And there's like, jelly in the middle that keeps that, like, allows your spine to, like, go up and down and like, jump. And when all the jelly gets squeezed out, then you basically just have your spine smacking against itself. Just a bunch of buns, no jelly.

So the longer you go without treating it, and the more jelly that oozes out, the harder it is to fix without things like surgery. So go to the doctor or eleventy like me until you find one that fixes it.

So just to recap, you are the person telling me that my vocabulary seems too sexual.

What was sexual about that? Why?

Whenever the three of us do a show, it becomes the horniest episode back.

Literally every word you said.

Sorry.

It's cause Pablo's surrounded by women, and it's a thing he's thought about for years, but never been bold enough to actually try these odds and dynamics. And it's very hard for him to step away from the inner subconscious.

I just want to thank both of you because I came in here, like, being like, yeah, my back hurts, but I'm fine. Feeling really good now. I'm like, oh, my back is broken. All the jelly's gone. I have no jelly left.

I'm not going to say it. So when we were talking about what topics to do on the show today, I sent a text that is the best encapsulation for how I want to start today's show with Sarah Spain and charlotte wilder. Hello, guys. And it's the text that reads, I'm gonna do alpha douchebag. So can we play Alpha Douche?

You do not have to accept her rejection. I'm a professional dating coach and I teach guys how to understand the female mind. Now, if you're one of the people that haven't applied anything in my course or my videos or anything like that, this video is not for you. This is an advanced technique. This is for the people that have the course, have my videos and are applying it, seeing results. And eventually I'm going to put this in the course. I just don't have the time right now, so I'm releasing it now. You don't have to accept her rejection. Now here's an example. I was talking to a girl and she said, oh, you know, I'm not really interested. And I instead of just going, okay, and then just turning right way, I did this, why would you not be interested?

Me?

I'm the best.

Absolutely the best.

And she's like, oh, how? I'm like, well, you'd have to come over in my house to find out. And you'd also have to be okay with kink and you'd also have to be okay with my mastery with ropes and the fact I have multiple women. And actually, maybe, maybe not. Maybe, maybe you wouldn't be the best for me. And now I did turn around at the end, but I could have left that part out and still got her to start bantering back and forth. And she did. She started going back and forth with me and I started building attraction in that because now I had sidestepped her f cking rejection. Granted, keep in mind I didn't force it and say, no, no, you're no. I just played into her little f cking game. I knew she was playing with me a little bit or just kind of disengaging, and I gave her a little bit of fun. You want to know what I did with her later?

No.

Yeah, absolutely don't want to know.

Got it.

Later.

I should say that I don't know if the song at the end of that video was a song that he like edited in or if that was just the sound of a car that had pulled up next to him playing that song. Cause he is sitting in his car. And it's a very popular TikTok now. And it's basically about how you don't have to accept rejection from women. And before I get into how I feel about this, just how do you guys feel about this?

So my first reaction, Pablo, was that everybody knows guys like this. Everybody knows a guy who's, like, a little squirrely and weird and, like, all the hair on their. Their beard and their head is, like, all the same, and it's, like, sort of reddish blonde, and it's like. And you're like, what's going on? And that guy has two choices. He can either be, like, the goofy, fun friend who gets out of his own way, or he can become the worst person you've ever met. And this guy clearly chose the latter. But I can't even think of anyone I know who's like that, but I know that guy.

Yeah.

Whether or not you know someone who claims to have a mastery of ropes, I feel like you guys have encountered people in that guy's coaching tree, either a predecessor or a descendant. And that's the kind of type, Sarah, that I wanted to, like, almost ethnographically study with you guys, because I am unfortunately, fascinated by how one becomes that guy as Charlotte had described it.

I mean, I think what Charlotte nailed is what I felt watching it, which is first, like, unimaginable levels of cringe and, like, deep seated memory of being engaged with or attempted to be engaged with by people like this and how awful it is and how if they just got out of their own way, found a way to be confident in whatever it is about them that makes them unique. Even if it's their very dorkiness and quirkiness, if it's their mastery of ropes and kink, you can find your person that's going to love that. What they are always doing instead is trying to figure out how if they just better understood the female mind and tricked women into liking them, they could get the women they want, instead of saying, let me look for a woman that wants me, and then just be myself confidently and see how attractive that is. It's so easy to understand, but hard to explain to people who aren't naturally confident that all you need to be, all you need to be to get women is confident. That's it. In whatever. Like, look at the guys. You're like, how did he.

How did he do that? How did he pull that off? Like, I guarantee you that guy walks in anywhere just authentically and genuinely themselves in whatever weird and unusual ways that might be even without being the hottest guy. And people are just drawn to that, that confidence.

So this pitch that Sarah is giving all men on how to attract and even just be a person who can have conversations with women, which is win.

Friends and influence people.

Yes, yes, yes. Exactly. That confidence being the key. What's very funny to me about this type of person, which I should say has an occupation now, pickup artist. This is a pickup artist. There's a whole genre that is now decades old about pickup artistry. And what they sell instead is this complexity that reminds me almost of how an NFL defensive coordinator might talk. And I wanted to show you guys, I don't know if you. Do you guys know who mystery is?

No.

Yes. Like when you said pickup artists, it again unlocked this part of my brain that sadly watched multiple episodes of the pickup artist starring mystery, whose goal was not to bring out people's natural and awesome uniqueness in a way that would make them confident, but rather to completely change them in every way until they could trick people into thinking they were something else.

So Charlotte said no. Sarah obviously is envisioning mystery right now in her brain. And so let's show Charlotte mystery.

So in the first phase, a one we open, in the second phase, we dhv to get iois. In the third phase, we get her to dhv so we can give her I ois. And that's attraction. If you go straight into comfort without doing that, you will just go nowhere. There's no pickup involved. You're forgetting the plot line. So banter is something that some people think that, wow, I was in set for ten minutes and I was shooting the with her and everything was going well, but it didn't lead anywhere. So I'll say, well, did you qualify her? Was she even attracted? Did you upload dhvs into her head? Does she know that you have had girls in your life in the past? Has she seen you with girls? Does she know that you're the leader of men, that you're preselected? Does she know anything about you? If the answer is no, then you went straight into comfort and you got stuck in there.

That is mystery. Or as I like to refer to him now, having just watched the video, the Dan Orlovsky of incels. Just like doing a telestrator on, like, DHV. So DHV, by the way, is demonstrate higher value or demonstration of higher value. I o I is an indicator of interest. A set is a conversation, and it goes on. Right. Qualify. You want to qualify. These are words that I came to learn in another text message that I sent you guys that was immediately embarrassing. I explained it. I read the book by Neil Strauss called the game. And the game is not the manual that mystery and Alpha Dom douche are selling, but it is a book about them, essentially. And so the game, it taught me these phrases in a way that made me genuinely interested in whether these guys have figured out literally anything or whether this language they've developed is entirely something that is a scam. And when you're talking about Dhving and Ioing and Kino escalating and all of that stuff, what is just important for everybody to know here is that this stuff has become extraordinarily popular.

That is so depressing. I have a theory. I have a theory that the more people use acronyms, the more they rely on acronyms or on vague sentences that don't actually say anything but signal that they know what they're talking about and you just haven't learned it yet, the more full of they are.

Yeah, I agree with you. And I also think that in this case, when you're trying to commodify something that is sort of inexplicable, which is like chemistry pheromones, you know, interacting with other humans, you have to give it special names like what it actually reminds me of. And I know that I will be insulting plenty of people out there, and I'm very sorry in advance, but one of my friends got really into CrossFit and then wanted to become a personal trainer and offered my husband and I some free sessions so that he could say he had clients on his website. And some of the exercises we were doing were things that have existed forever and that I did in college, division one track. But they gave them new names so that they could be crossfit exercises. One was like a pulse thruster or something, and it was just a body weight squat. You know, it was like, that's. I don't think it was something.

I like how all of these exercises get rebranded as american gladiator. Like code names? Yeah, pulse thrusters.

I mean, that's the point is like, we need our own language approved to you and expertise that will allow us to charge you for this thing that already exists.

I think you're exactly right. I also think the sort of the, you know, the obvious part of this is that is his necklace. Well, the necklace.

He's wearing a sun necklace.

Sorry. The one thing I liked about mystery was his necklace. Necklace was a little cool.

So that's called peacocking.

Yeah.

I'm kidding, Charlotte.

That's called peacocking. That is a move.

It reminds me of something I got on vacation in Wyoming in fourth grade.

By the way, though, I get the systematization of this, the idea that, yes, these are obviously, like, dorks and nerds who are yearning for some way to get anything resembling confidence. There is a fundamental, I will even say, relatability on top of sadness to the idea of, like, I don't know what to do. Can someone help me? And then someone filling that vacuum with here is a literal book of things to do. I get where it starts, but what it does, and this is, like, both obvious and also, I think the key to so much of the Internet now is that you become convicted in terms of why your approach should work. And it turns the person you're trying to win over into somebody who is definitionally two dimensional. Like one of the. I wonder if you guys even encountered this in the wild, right? So, like, one of the things that puas, as they are called, what they stress is a neg. Sarah, how would you explain a neg for people who aren't familiar with the vocabulary here?

So negging is actually this thing that I've seen in the wild, and occasionally it works on some people, which is kind of wild and unfortunate because I'd like to say mystery is completely full of. But this kind of, like, has some vibes that are useful.

This is why this is interesting. This whole conversation is that there's some stuff in here that is, in fact, worthwhile.

Right.

And with negging, what I think the end result is that it infers some sort of confidence that someone has that might not actually be there because only the most confident among us would be willing to say something mean to a beautiful woman instead of just being a pushover who's completely adoring. Right. So they would say something like, hey, Charlotte, that's interesting t shirt. I think my mom has it. But you're somehow still, like, pulling it off. Right? So it's like, kind of mean. Like, oh, I don't really want to be wearing what your mom wears, but I look good. It's this weird sort of like, I'm kind of negating you. Negging. I'm finding something negative to say about you, but it's not full on. Like, hey, you look like.

So what's interesting to me about this is I feel like these guys are taking little kernels of normal things and just putting them on steroids and growing them into, like, the biggest ears of corn that nobody wants. Like, teasing someone is a great way to build a connection with them. Like, it's charisma. It's flirting. It's actually called flirting, where, you know, where you're like, oh, my God, did my mom give you that shirt? And, like, you know, and so. But these guys are taking it, calling it something new, making it seem like the man is more in control and he's doing it to someone instead of it being a banter back and forth that the woman is also having agency in.

Yes.

So that power dynamic, the control is, like, the underlying truth of this, which is that they're typically, when it comes to a pathetic feeling guy and a woman, he's interested in a power imbalance in his head. Right? Like, how can I possibly be enough for this person such that they are attracted to me? And so people are using negative neg is also, like, you got something right here. And they're, like, pointing to their nose, and they make the woman think that there's, like, a booger in her nose. So immediately, she's, like, insecure about that. Right? So that's. Charlotte is a guest at the psychological op that this guy's being running. This guy's been running. And then, look, I just looked up, like, sample negs, and it's like, hey, do you know if there's a zoo in Central Park? I get the feeling you spent a lot of time at the zoo.

What?

What?

That's just. That's just a sample that I looked up.

Why?

I would love to spend time at the zoo.

I got the feeling you spend a lot of time in the library.

Okay. Thank you. Yeah, I'm brilliant.

This is not working so far. What I do next. All right. When surrounded by HBS, it's hot.

Babes.

You're gonna open the set, kino escalate, and then summon a wingman. All right, Cortez.

Wait, wait. Did you say keto escalate?

Keno escalate. Does that mean, like, kinetic chain? I believe, like, this is. I. Why am I explaining this to you?

Yeah.

Why do you know all this? You are supposed to touch somebody in such a way that creates a physical rapport.

Also just a part of flirting, if it's going well.

Also, my worst nightmare. Like, I remember going on dates where there would be an attempt to immediately put a hand on top of my hand on the table or otherwise, and I would just move away, and then I would. I would eventually have to say, just so you know, like, I'm not really comfortable touching people right when I get to know them. Like, I just want to get to know someone more. Because I, like, I want to. I want to say that, like, living in LA, especially in the early two thousands.

Oh, man.

The number of guys I met that were running this playbook, and it was. It was very hard to describe because I couldn't just say they're, like, reading the pickup artists. But it was a feeling I had that they had a checklist of what to do. And if it didn't work, it was the woman problem for wanting a bad guy or not liking a nice person or not knowing, like, not respecting that they're a good catch. Like, but none of it was organic or felt like just a confident guy hanging out. It was always, like, the same exact thing, like, nagging shows of, like, value, like, literally talking about their money or saying, I want to take you to go shopping for clothes.

Yeah, they're an amog. They're an alpha male of the group, right?

Talking about their alpha.

They're not an AFC. An average frustrated chump.

Oh, my God. You know, too many of these. These better be written down in front of you.

They are definitely not memorized by me, honestly.

Pablo, do you want to know the female version of this? It literally was like, try not to be too confident. Use baby talk. Especially in your twenties. Men are intimidated by women who are, like, partners and equals, so they want to date someone that they feel more manly around. So it's like, I'm so stupid.

Can you help me with this?

Like, you have to. I'm not lying. I had to in my twenties, like, just start acting like a dumbass who needed help with on my first dates just to give them, like, a second of thinking that they might be in charge ever. And once they were interested, then I could go back to my normal self. But I literally had a hard pivot.

Sarah.

Oh, my God, you guys. The amount of integrity I lost in my, like, pride in myself when I just gave up and I started being like, no, I don't know.

I'm like, what?

Just started acting like a dumb, because otherwise I didn't get any dates. And it worked. It worked.

Every time I went on a date, my early twenties, I got there, it was like an Internet date, and I was immediately like, I cannot be here. He was not like this guy, basically. He was, like, very quiet. I'm sure he was nice, but you know when you just show up and you see someone and you're. And you're not even, like, not even what he looked like. The vibe, I was just like, I can't sit here. We, like, order beers. I'm sitting there, just boring. Feel like I, like my skull is, you know, dropping through my body, and I was like, I have to. I'll be right back. And I went outside, and I called my roommate at the time, my best friend, my Hillary, who we talked Clinton about on here before. Just gonna bring her up every time the three of us are together. And I was like, I cannot be here. And she was like, oh, I'm sorry. She's like, oh, also, our dishwasher broke. And I was like, say no more.

Perfect.

And I went back inside, and I was like, I'm so sorry. I have to go. And he was like, oh, is everything okay? I was like, you know, my dishwasher broke, and there are just suds everywhere. And then I left.

Good one.

And I think about him, and I.

Feel a little bad.

Because you radicalized him and now he's running.

Exactly. He's mystery. This is mystery.

This is alpha douche guy.

Wait, that dude has a sun necklace and is wearing giant goggles.

Oh, my God.

Escalating more right now.

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