The following program contains names, places and events that have been anonymized or fictionalized for the purposes of protection and safety. The following program is provided for entertainment purposes only, and any commentary from the hosts are strictly conjecture and should not be held as making any definitive statements about the truth or identity of any particular individuals or circumstances. If you or a loved one are involved in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 for support.

Hello, dating detectives. Hi, Hannah. Hi.

I'm so excited.

Why? I don't know. Because these episodes are so exciting. They really are.

I always am. But literally, today I was just like, all morning I was like, I'm so excited I get to do a Mackenzie Undercover episode. It's fun. Well, because.

They're so ridiculous. I look back on these stories and I'm like, I can't even believe this is my life. I can't even believe that these things actually happen. I don't know, I'm so numb to it now because these crazy things happen. But I've been doing it for so long that it's like, Oh, yeah, this happened. That's normal. And everyone's like, Wait, what? Yeah, no big deal. You're like.

Just another day in a new colony or wherever you are for your case.

So wild. And these are things that nobody would ever experience in their everyday life.

No, but we get to. Thanks to you. Half of me being excited is definitely the stories, but the other half is just like, I like hanging out with you.

I like hanging out with you, too. I hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving week. How was your Thanksgiving, Hannah?

Oh, it was nice. I was home in Vegas and we had fun and didn't fight about politics. So what else did you ask for? I love that. I love that so much. I actually had so much fun. What about you?

Good. My husband always does the turkey rod run in Daytona. I never go with him because I don't do car stuff. But this year, I was all about that life. So me and my son and my husband went and the boys did the boy thing and I went a little bit of shopping. Fun, fun. That's what we did for Thanksgiving and the whole weekend.

Tell your husband I'm going to a Hanukkah party. That's at the Peterson Car Museum. So there'll be cool cars there. Where is that? It's in L. A. It's this like, I don't know, it's a fancy building that has really fancy cars that I've honestly never had a lot of interest in. But now I'm going to go. So I'll text him and be like, Hey, I'm standing next to this thing. Is it cool? And he'll probably be excited.

You should just text him all the pictures, like, Look at this car and look at this car, and look at this car. And then he'll go in the bathroom to be alone. That's a great car. Oh, my gosh. I got to be alone for a minute. All the boy thinks about.

Oh, that's so funny. Just kidding, honey. I've seen those memes where he's probably thinking about other women. And then it shows the guy thinking like, the car is terrible. Yeah, it's something that your husband is just thinking about cars. Oh, boy. Anyway, I'm glad you had a nice room-room car extravaganza.

Yeah, and now it's time for Christmas. Now it's officially Christmas. I mean, mostly, yes.

You're a Christmas right away person. Is the tree already up?

Yeah, we started decorating yesterday, so it's mandatory for my son.

I'm okay with it. Some people take issue, but the more time to celebrate, the better.

Yeah, absolutely. So are you ready to hear this? Do we get into today's story? Do you want to get into today's story? Because I'm excited to share it with you.

I am so excited. This is a story that Mackenzie mentioned in a previous episode. She's like, Oh, one time I had to do this for a case. Molly and I both were like, We need more words.

We need more from that. Use more words.

Say more. We need you to say more things. That's why.

We're getting to this story. I was like, Oh, I guess I could tell that story. This is how numb I am to it. So anyways, okay, let's get into it. Are you ready?

Us, everybody, ready. Let's go.

We need a drumroll button.

We have our fun theme song that's like, I'm sure it'll play right now.

So you guys know how most of my stories start off with, I got a call from a husband or I got a call from a wife. So as a private investigator, we contract with one another. We'll call other private investigators to help them work a case. So we contract with one another, and it's like this big network of investigators, and we hand each other different jobs based on skill level or availability, location, demographic, whatever. And so.

That's how - Yeah. Also, you all have your specialties, and maybe you're more likely to fit into an environment than someone else. It makes sense. It's nice that you all can.

Help each other. No, exactly. Sometimes I'll get asked to do a job just because I'm a female and the circumstances require that. This isn't necessarily one of those where I was required to be a girl, but it didn't suck. It did not help. I guess a guy could have done it, but whatever. And there are times when I have to decoy for another investigator or be the bait to lure someone in or something. So I have to do a little bit of social engineering. Sometimes there might be an investigator where I'm not doing the investigation, but they're like, Hey, I need a girl to sit at a bar and see if this guy hits on you or something. The wife wants to know or whatever. Wow, that's.

So.

Fun. It's crazy. It doesn't happen a lot, but it does happen. Sometimes we work together. Anyways, I was contacted by this investigator. He runs his own agency and he said, Hey, I have a case for you. And he said, I don't know much about it. I did some basic research. Basically, the husband wants to know if his wife is doing something shady because, as per usual, she's super top secret squirrel on her phone. She's keeping it secretive. And sometimes she disappears for hours. She's not available by phone. She doesn't answer her text. She doesn't answer her call. It'll go straight to voicemail. And then he'll be like, Where have you been? Where were you? And she's like, Oh, I didn't have service or I was just busy or I was at the gym or I didn't hear my phone ring. There's always an excuse. And so he thinks that she's doing something... He wants to know what's up, right?

Sure.

Just to paint a picture, this couple is in their early 30s. He's just like a white-collar, 9:00-5:00 guy. She's a waitress. They have two kids, just a regular nothing crazy about this family or whatever.

I was going to ask if they have kids because that makes it even more suspicious for a parent to just disappear for hours on end.

Yes, exactly. It was so funny because I was talking today, I was sharing a story on my Instagram about how it's interesting to see what moms do. Do you think moms are like June Kleber? No, they are not. A lot of them out here doing all kinds of crazy stuff. Anyway, this investigator that sends me this case, he tells me, he's like, I just did some preliminary research. It looks like she has a Facebook. Here's her Instagram that I found. And there's an email that he found. And when he asked the husband about it, the husband says, I've never seen that email. I don't know what it is. Whatever. So the husband doesn't recognize the email.

So he found her email. I don't know if you can share how, but how can you find someone's random secret email?

We have what's called a comprehensive report that private investigators have access to that is not available to the public. It's not necessarily public record. Although if you are 27 pages deep in the Google Machine, you can probably find it. And so anytime there's someone, maybe they logged in from the same phone or they attached it to their name or their phone number or something. And so the.

Comprehensive report- Anything attached to anything.

Yeah, will come up on the comprehensive report. And so it's just like it's smart. It knows what's connected to what. It will show email addresses from your prodigy or AOL account from when you were 13 years old. It will go back in time and.

Find you. Oh, no. So if somebody could find that I had an email address called lillemistalkalot7@aol. Com, that's out there? Yeah. Now it's definitely out there.

Now it's out there for sure. But it's findable. Is that a word? It's findable. Yeah, findable. Anyways, she has an email address the husband doesn't recognize. And I'm like, All right, bet. Say no more. I got you, Pham. I'm on it. I'll do the research. I'll do the like, I got this. The husband doesn't want to pay for surveillance because surveillance is more expensive. So if we can find out everything we can just by research and using resources that we have as private investigators and just start there because, like I said, surveillance can get really expensive. We're talking like a hundred or more dollars an hour, usually.

For surveillance. Yeah, it makes sense. You're literally putting so much time into just hoping you see something.

Yeah, it's true. And sometimes you don't know what time something's going to happen, so you sit there for hours and hours and hours, and it can really add up. And then you have to consider... Each case is different. You have to consider expenses, travel, time, all of that stuff. So it just depends on the case. But he doesn't want to pay for the surveillance yet. He wants to see what we can come up with on our own. I'm digging through the social media. I go down rabbit holes until I hit a dead end. 100 % of the time, I would rather have too much information than not find what I'm looking for. So I will do digging like nobody's business. And because it's so readily available, just out there all willy-nilly, you can just go find whatever. And so that's what I like to do, is I just start digging and I can- I like to.

Do that too, but no one's paying me.

There's a lot of people who are like, I could totally be a PI. I'm so good at it. I'm researching her comprehensive report, and I'm researching everything on it individually. I'm like 49 pages deep on the Google Machine, and I find a 10-year-old Kik account. And if you don't know what Kik is, Kik is an app where you don't have to share your phone number. There's no phone numbers involved. You can be literally anonymous. You can be whoever you want to be on Kik. Got it. So I find this 10-year-old username from this Kik, whatever, and it had a picture attached to it. And it was the woman's picture, as far as I could tell, but she looked much younger. So I was like, Okay, that looks like it could be her if this was an older version of her, which according to the date on this thing, it was. So if that's her, that would make sense that the physical features are lined up if she was younger. So on the Kick app, you can chat one on one, like private message, but there's also chat rooms and they have themes like Dog Lovers or Foodies or whatever, or dating for 20 somethings or dating for mature people.

But it also has more kinky type chat rooms.

I was going to say that sounds way more wholesome than I was expecting. But they do have, like- They have a place for-.

They do have wholesome chats. And I think it was originally created for children, because that way they don't have to share their phone numbers. And it's like you can chat with strangers online without giving your phone number.

Always a good idea for giving children an opportunity to chat with strangers online.

Right. And so I'm like, This is never a good idea. Please, whatever you do, parents, do not let your children on kick. That is a breeding ground for freaking predators and sex offenders. Please do not ever let your kids have this app. Anybody could be anybody. I know that's anywhere, but don't ever do the kick. Absolutely not.

Mackenzie, the holidays are coming up, and I need to vent a little bit because I get so nervous around the holidays. I always break out. My skin, so much drier, getting less sun. I'm eating all the sugar cookies. And then my mom is taking so many Christmas pictures, Hanukkah pictures, whatever pictures, Thanksgiving, all the pictures. I'm like, No, my skin. Does this happen to you? Am I alone?

Actually, yes. I am so obsessed. When people take pictures, I'm obsessed with looking at it first to see if it's fine because there's always some blemish, some acne that pops up, and especially during the holidays when everybody's taking pictures of everything. So many pictures. Stop taking the pictures unless I can see them.

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It's so hard to get to a dermatologist. There were certain skincare items that I wanted to try and just didn't get around to it. And going online, this was so convenient. So my goals with it were that I wanted to try retinol or tretinoin, but I'm 28 and I wasn't sure at what point you're supposed to use that or how much to use. So I wrote all of that out on the consultation form, and they responded very personally.

That's what I did on my online consultation when I asked about my skincare goals. My big thing was I don't break out as much anymore, but I still get hormonal acne around my chin and jaw area.

Totally hormonal. But I have.

Dark spots. And I wanted to improve my skin texture because I'm almost 40. So things are a little bit more noticeable.

I think that's also important because checking in with a derm or an expert team is so helpful as we get older, our skincare needs change. So this is so nice that you don't have to do an in-person appointment. You just get it done. And I loved it. My friend actually told me that she has very sensitive skin. This is the only thing that has ever worked for her skin. She's such an apostrophy loyalist and everything else doesn't work. So when I heard that, I had to try it.

That's amazing. And we have a special deal for our audience. Get your first visit for only $5 at apostrophy. Com/td when you use our code TDD. That's a savings of $15. The code is only available to our listeners. To get started, just go to apostrophy. Com/tdd and click get started. Then use our code TDD at sign up and you'll get your first visit for only five dollars. Thank you, Apostrophy, for sponsoring this episode. Anyway, so this username that I found is something totally... It was obvious to me, but it was like Baby Sweet like Sugar or something. So I'm like, Okay, this is just a random username. You can literally be anybody you want. Like I said- Little Miss talk a lot.

Baby Sweet like Sugar. Little Miss.

Talk a lot. So I find the picture of her. I associate it with the Kik name. I go on the Kik, I create a profile on the kick machine. I decide that I'm going to go on there, too. You have to create a username. I just put an innocent picture from a magazine or something stupid. Obviously, I can't do it myself. You can't fish? I can't fish. But I didn't talk to anybody. I wasn't using it at all. I just needed a picture that looked real. Anyways, Baby Sweet like Sugar. I'm like, Oh, okay. That's really weird. I end up, because I picked apart the username, Baby Sweet like Sugar, Sugar Baby. I was like, Okay.

She's getting some money, honey.

It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out what happened.

Wait, Sugar Baby? Yes, sugar, baby has a sugar daddy or mommy.

Yeah. So a sugar baby is like someone who quote unquote, does not do favors in exchange for money. And typically this relationship is someone older who has money to someone. The sugar baby is someone younger who just does not sexual favors because that's illegal for this person or whatever. And so- You.

Pamper them.

Yeah. And by the way, have you ever gotten a message on Facebook? And they're like, Hi, you're really gorgeous. I would like to pay you $5,000 a week. You don't have to do anything. Just keep my company. Yeah, okay. I'm going to end up dead in your basement. No, absolutely not.

I have seen a message like that or two.

I could be your sugar. Do you need a Sugar Daddy? No things. I'm all set.

I just thought like, I could be your Sugar Daddy. You know that song? Please don't do that. If someone covered that song and rewrote it, I would be totally out for. That would be amazing.

Oh, my God. Well, just to clarify a little bit more about Kik. So Kik is a program where it's totally anonymous. So even though someone might have a profile, it has their picture and their screen name or their username, and that's really it. I had two like Sugar, Baby, Love, whatever. I'm putting two and two together. I started using keywords to search chat rooms specific to Sugar Babies. I started trying to weed out the kinks and Sugar Baby or mature man, young woman scenarios because by this point you get a little bit of a spidey sense. So once I started narrowing down the different chat rooms based on the title and the little picture, there's a little picture logo that someone creates when they create the chat room. I was going by the name of the chat room if it was 18 and up or 21 and up or whatever. I knew that it had to be an adult chat room. I knew that I was looking for something a little not so vanilla. I just started scouring chat rooms for her profile picture and her username. And I found her hours. I'm talking hours.

I spent hours trying to... Because when you go into these chat rooms, you can see who the members are. You can look and see whatever.

Who is a member of-.

It pulls up little bubbles with their pictures, and then it has their little username under it. And I'm like, Oh, my gosh. So 700 chat rooms later, I find her. And honestly, it didn't take a rocket search, and it just took time. So I'm watching her, and I found her in two different chat rooms, and there's like a max of 50 people. I know. There's a max of 50 people in each chat room. And everybody just chats here and there. And they're like, Oh, any baby dolls or sugar, whatever in.

This- Looking for a little wanting to go out to dinner and be some arm candy.

Yeah. The thing is they can totally private message you and you can ignore it or you can accept it or whatever. But they're asking in this chat room, so if you're a dude in there and there's a lot of girls, you can be like, hey, any of you girls or whatever.

Can I ask what was the chat room she was in? Was it something that explicitly was like looking for a sugar daddy?

Something totally basic, like Sugar Babies unite or something dumb. It didn't say Sugar Baby, but it was like sugar whatever for a baby. Babies love sugar or something stupid. You can tell. Baby loves sugar. You can tell. Oh, my- Oh my Lord. Sugar-rush. -because I looked at the keywords. I was like, Sugar, baby, baby sugar. And so I just started finding different chat rooms with those names in it. And that's how I.

Narrowed it down. And she was in two of them.

Love this. Yeah. And she could have been in more, but those are the ones I found. It was good enough for me. And at this point, to be honest with you, I wasn't 100 % sure it was her, only because the picture could have really been her when she was younger. But obviously, I didn't want to bring it to the husband and be like, Is this her? Because then I didn't want him to blow my whole investigation before I could even... I wanted to find more before. And so I did the research. I sat for a couple of days. I watched it. I would go on this app and I would just look and watch. And sure enough, she was talking to these guys and she would respond to some of them in the chat room.

So she was currently active. It wasn't like a 10 years ago thing.

Right. But this username is 10 years old, at least. She's a pro.

But she's still.

Going strong. Yes, she's been doing this for a while. Now, mind you, they're in their early 30s. So she's been doing this for a while. This is just over 10 years old. So she's been doing this for a while. She's had this username for a while. So after watching this, you could see how they're talking in the group, very vanilla, whatever. And they take it off into private message. And then obviously you can't see what they're talking about after that or whatever.

But we can guess.

Like I said, it doesn't take a rocket surgeon, but there's no proof because I can't see the private messages, whatever. So in one of the chats, one of the dudes that was like, Oh, I'm looking for whatever. And he made a list of what he's looking for in a Sugarbaby, but he didn't say the words. Now, keep in mind on Kik, everyone has to talk in code, right? Because if there's like a raid on Kik, you don't want to be like, Yeah, I'm a sex worker or whatever. So like every talking in code- There's another language.

-so nobody gets in trouble- There's another language.

Yeah, it's like every talking in code. So she said, You know, if you're looking for something specific, you could try PhETLife. And if you've never heard of PhetLife. Phetlife is a website that is Phet, F-E-T for like Phetish? Life. Phetish. So I think PhETLife. So this is just full disclosure, I knew what PhetLife was already before this case because I've actually done other cases where a partner was on the website trying to date. So let me explain PhetLife a little bit more. I want to make a profile. It's a social website basically designed to be curated toward fetishes and kinky stuff. As far as I know, Vanilla folks are welcome there, too. If you're totally Vanilla, you can go there, too. But if you're totally Vanilla, you probably won't like it. But it's basically like if you have a little bit of kink or you're someone who likes to explore outside the realm of your Vanilla, whatever that means for you, this would be a great place to find it. So like bondage, dominance and submission, footworship, it's basically alphabet soup, LGBTQ, anything you can think of. And it's a forum. People can post. And it's neat because if you go on there, if you've ever been on a car forum, it's like, This is Ford and this is Chevy.

And you go on there and be like, hey, watch the VAdon't want to afford, whatever. Everybody can reply. My husband goes on those car forums, and so I'm familiar with those. So it's the same thing, but different things and petitions. I think.

It can be very healthy as long as everyone's safe. That's one thing. It's hard to regulate places like that. I do worry about people doing stuff on there, but that's anywhere.

But it is for anybody who has fetishes or some they want to explore. It's hard to find people like that at the mall or at a bar. It's a great place to go because if someone else is there, they also are interested in some kink or fetish. So it's like you're not alone. There's other people there that are just like you. I think that's really cool. I'm all about sex positivity. Do you, boo? We're all humans. Do whatever you want, right?

It's.

Fine.

It's have fun. But also, if you're married, maybe don't be getting money from a Sugar Daddy, but let's see if she's even doing that. Okay.

Well, okay.

Mckenzie, I love your sweater.

This is the one that I got from Quince.

Yes. Oh, Quince, I got a sweater, too. I got the 100 % Mongolia cashmere sweater. It was $50, and it's one of the softest sweaters I think I have. It's so good.

They also have- I think we got the.

Same one because that's the one I got in tan.

Oh, my God. Matching. Well, Quince is the best place for capsule wardrobe vibes. It's just all the essentials, all the basics, super great quality for less money than maybe a luxury brand.

It's like a go to place for luxury essentials, but it's affordable prices for everyone. The sweaters are amazing, but there's also washable, silk tops and dresses, cotton sweaters that aren't cashmere. They're just plain cotton sweaters, comfy pants. Personally, for me, my favorite part of Christmas or any time you're giving gifts... Gifting is my love language, so I love gift giving, but it can add up when you're trying to buy for everyone. And that's why I think this holiday season I'm going to shop with Quint.

Yeah, you're so right.

For gift giving, this is the spot. This is what.

I'm going to do for everybody because it's just.

Such.

Good pieces for affordable prices.

We need that. Everybody needs that for the holidays.

And I'll probably even get some more for myself, let's be real.

Yeah. All their prices are priced 50 to 80 % less than similar brands. So that's a game changer. And you're getting the same stuff.

Yeah. The same quality for a less expensive price point.

I love it.

I'm really all about it. It's such a.

Good idea.

There's also so much. I'd been eyeing this cross body bag. I'd been eyeing it from a name brand, and it was just something I didn't want to pull the trigger on, even though I really wanted it. My mom had that one. I was like, I'm going to get it for myself as soon as I want to treat myself.

Had the.

Same one. I got that one so much more affordable. I'm wearing it.

Every day.

It is now my favorite bag. I looked at my mom's, which is the other brand, and it's just as good quality. I'm mind blown. If you are looking to shop for the holidays or for anything, you can get affordable luxury for everyone on your list with Quince, go to quince. Com/td for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.

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There's like a search bar where you can search for whatever it is you're looking for. Like if you're someone who's into feet, you can type in foot fetish or whatever. The search bar, you can search for keywords to help you narrow down what it is that you're looking for and you can find fulfillment. You can chat with others. And this is people from all over the world. These are all different countries. Anyways, I end up doing another keyword search for her username, and there's a gajillion of them.

There's a gajillion hits or a gajillion Baby Sugar Loves Sugar.

Whatever that is. There's a gajillion hits with different versions of that username. There's a lot of women out there that are typing in different versions of like Sugarbaby123 or Sugar Baby 69 or Baby Sugar or whatever.

So when people are on FedLife, they're putting their creativity into their fantasies and less into their usernames.

Yeah, absolutely.

Because I'm sure that the fantasies get very creative.

So I find a similar name and I find a similar picture. Now, the picture wasn't the same. It looked like the same girl, but it did look like my girl, but she had a portion of her face covered, but the filter on the picture was the same. And so I knew the light... You know how Snapchat has the different filters? Yes. And also, everyone.

Has their favorite filters. Yes, everyone does. This is a very smart hunch on your part because like, Oh, she's using the same filter. That's the same girl. Like, she knows the one she likes. She knows the one she works with. Legit. That's so funny. That's so funny.

Okay, for sure. It was the same filter. This one you could tell she was a little bit more mature. You could just see it in her eyes, whatever.

She's seen things.

She's definitely been on the block. This is hours and hours of digging. It wasn't super instant. They have a classic-classified section on PhatLife where you can go and be like, Oh, 39-year-old male looking for a 20-year-old sugar baby or whatever. You can type these things in and it's literally like Craigslist for sex or kink or fetishes or whatever. So you can post what you're looking for. People can respond publicly. They can respond to your post and be like, Hey, can I send you a message? Or, Hey, message me, or whatever. I find a post where this particular woman is on the classifieds and she's looking for a sugar daddy. So basically, she gives a little resume. She says, I've been a sugar baby since college. I'm in my early 20s. So she says that she's in her 20s. So she's lying about her age. And so that's why I was like, Maybe it's not her. Maybe this is someone else. And I had no solid proof. So there's a ton of responses back and forth on her classified ad that she posted. And I can see this one guy that continues to respond with her.

Like she's having a conversation. It's vague. She's talking back and forth to this guy. Well, they end up... He says, Can I message you? And she says, Yes. So now they're in private messages, right? So I decide that I want to make my profile, I want to be a Sugarbaby too.

I thought you were going to be a Sugar Daddy.

Well, so here's.

The thing. I thought about, Okay, I could be a Sugar Daddy. But if she's being contacted by all these different Sugar Daddies, how do I know what interests her? I don't know how to be a Sugar Daddy. That's not something I know what to do. But I do know how to befriend another woman. So I do know that if you show vulnerability and you're like, I'm just like you, let's connect or whatever. So that's what I did. So my profile- Oh, my God.

You could be.

Like, I want to mentor. I changed my picture to be like a cute little anime college girl, really young. And you can choose different options like what you're there for. It asks you your sexual orientation if you'd like to answer. And so I made my profile and I made this whole description of how I'm a sugar baby, whatever. And I'm looking for a sugar daddy. I don't think it was part of the drop-down menu. Maybe it was. I don't remember. But I put it in my profile. So you knew what I was there for. And in my profile, I put that I was young and I was new, but I was introduced to being a sugar baby. And I had a sugar daddy before for a short time. And I just really don't know what I'm doing. I need help. Help me.

I'm poor.

Help me. I'm poor. I end up responding on her forum where she posted, and I said, This is my name, and I'm interested in chatting with you. I just wondered if I could... I'm really new. I'm new and I'm very young and very inexperienced.

I just want a sugar sister.

I wanted to send you a private message and chat with you. Would you mind sharing a little bit about your experience with me? Whatever.

And she's like.

Yeah, of course. I'm so happy to help you. And the thing is, when it comes to social engineering and how to talk to people, people want to help and people want to share their experience. They want to talk about them.

And they want to feel important. You're making her feel like you're so, I'm inspired by you.

Honestly, to.

Me, this woman sounds like she's a businesswoman. She's been operating this small business since college. Obviously, it's been going well. And she has developed these skills. I take issue with her not mentioning them to said husband. But there's a part of me that's like, Get your bag. Everyone's consenting, except for your husband. So maybe we need to talk about that. But otherwise, get your bag. I'm just saying.

But that's none of my business, though. He wants to know what she's doing. So it is my business, but also... But whatever. This is my job. I am on this particular job. So I'm like tunnel vision. So I end up messaging her. And for the next three weeks, I am befriending her. We're talking over these messages. We're chatting. I'm getting to know her. We're talking about horses. I don't know shit about horses. But I'm Googling them, and I'm like, Oh, I had a horse, and he was a paint horse or whatever. I don't know whatever the hell. Oh, my goodness. And so I was like, I had this horse and his name was Billy and it was on. So we talked about it. I was just having random conversation with her. And during that time, I really shared my vulnerability with her about how I'm so new to being a sugar baby. But it's something that I really want to do because I really need the money. But also I really feel like this is just something that I'd be really good at. I really enjoy exploring my sexuality, and I really feel like I could make a guy really happy and whatever.

We're just sharing.

I'm just going off, girl. I'm loving this character.

But I'll tell you, as a PI, there's a lot of characters that I've had to play. This one was like, I actually really liked her. She was so nice. I was going to say, I genuinely am.

I think it's an interesting... Obviously, the stereotype is maybe women, helpless women being like, I'm a little baby and I need help. But it's like there is such an element of women taking so much control in adopting that mentality. It's like we're using what works. I don't know. There's a whole conversation around the element of using the way we're perceived as a power. It's not necessarily good, but it is survival.

It's not not good. I mean, if you're not going to use them, just fine.

I don't know. I wish we didn't live in a world where women had to be helpless, but also we do and we use it. I don't know. There's so much more there. I haven't thought through those thoughts.

I'm just saying. For sure. I feel like a traitor. I'm totally a gender traitor. Girls are like, Girl, power. Let's stick together. I was totally like, I was not. I was lying so bad. But that's part of my job. It's called pretexting. It's what we do. Sometimes we got to pretend. Just sometimes you got to do what you got to do to get the information. Anyways. So now I'm in her private messages. I've gained her trust. She trusts me. We're talking. I'm getting to know her. She's getting to know me. And so we start talking about our personal lives and sharing a little bit about where we're from and where we went to college and just all these things. So now that I've earned her trust, I start to delve into what she's doing. And I'm telling her about my personal life. She's telling me about her personal life. She tells me that she's married. She tells me she has children. She tells me what her husband does. She tells me all these things. And she's like, Sometimes you just got to... I want to make sure that I have money set aside because my husband doesn't make a lot of money.

And I just want to make sure that I'm taken care of. I'm not super happy. But if I leave, he makes more money than I do. I'm just a waitress, blah, blah, blah. And so she's basically telling me that she wants this money. She wants to buy nice things. But also she made it perfectly clear that she wants to set money aside because she isn't staying here forever. This isn't her forever home with this fella. She's basically like, I want to do what I want to do. I want to have my own money. I don't want to rely on him. He doesn't do it for me. The sex isn't good and we're not connecting. She basically made it clear that she's on the way out. And so she wants to save this money. Quite frankly, I think that she wants to be spoiled and he doesn't have the means to do it. And so she decides that she's going to go get spoiled on her own. Like, whatever. Okay, girl.

So she obviously shouldn't have married him. But is there a part of you in this moment who's like team Sugarbaby or are you just subjectively looking at it like a job, not taking it? But you've become.

Friends with her. It's a job. To be honest with you, in none of these cases, in not one single case that I have ever worked does my opinion matter. A case is a case. My opinion is irrelevant. How I feel about what they're doing is not important. How I feel about... It's none of my business how I feel. I am getting information for this client, and that's it.

So true, Queen, but it's important to me, and I want to know... I don't know. Now it's over. What was your feelings about this gal?

You don't have to share. I guess I just feel like if you're a grown adult and this is what you want to do, do it. Do I think it's cool to cheat on your husband? No. Do I think it's cool to be a sugar baby? I guess so. If no one's getting hurt, he likes it, you like it. It is the oldest profession in the world, but whatever. Do what you want. It's none of my business. I don't care. You're a grown ass woman. Do whatever. I got you. It's just like I'm totally against drugs. But if you want to do drugs, do you? Not my problem. You're an adult. You know what I mean? It's not my house. It ain't my problem. Do you?

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How do you.

Feel about it? What do you feel about Sugar Babies?

Oh, I don't know what I... Same thing. I'm live and let live. I am not personally a Sugar Baby nor have I been a Sugar Baby? It seems like it's a fun thing to joke about and be like, give me a call if anybody wants to just send me money for no reason. But nothing comes free.

Girl, ass, cash, grass, nobody rides for free.

Amen. But there is a part of me that's sympathetic to her feeling helpless in her marriage. I don't know their marriage. I'm just assuming. You know me. I just love to make it a story. Of course. I don't think she should be lying. But you did mention it's not cool to cheat. I agree. Sugar babying, I would count it. If I found out my partner was secretly doing this, I would consider it cheating. But it's interesting that it's a different cheating. It's not necessarily physical. But you'll tell me where we get in this story.

Because I don't know.

I'll tell you where this goes. I'm fine. Maybe it does.

Actually, she told me in our messages, I'm like, Do you tell them personal stuff about you? Because I want to know. Should I be telling these potential sugar daddies who I am? And she's like, Well, I don't tell them that I'm married. I don't tell them anything about my life. So she's out here like, Oh, Willy Willy, like dogfishing all these sugar daddies. You're totally lying about... But that's the anonymity. You can totally be anonymous. But is that a dogfish? I think it is. Yeah. I don't.

Know if I think it is because I think that there's an element of fetish. It depends on the relationship between people and what they're okay with. But she is.

Serving- I also wonder about the Sugar Daddies. Are they telling the full truth?

That's what I'm saying. They're all benefiting from this mutual agreement. It would hurt the agreement if she shared that she was married. They would maybe... You know what I mean? Everybody's getting what they want out of the fantasy. There's a part of me that's like, I guess that's the move. Obviously, people are deceiving other people in their lives in a negative way.

I don't know. I feel like she's just on an anonymous site doing her thing. Here's where it gets bad for me.

Uh-oh.

So she tells me that she met this guy in person. She said, I had a date with a potential sugar daddy. Right. And she says, I had sex with him, and he paid me $3,000 more not to use a condom. And I was like, That's disgusting. And I was like, and I asked her straight out. I said, So if you have unprotected sex, do you still have sex with your husband? And she's like, Well, yeah. And I'm like, And he doesn't use a condom either. And she's like, No. She 100 % confirmed in the messages to me that she had unprotected sex with this stranger and then goes home and has unprotected sex with her husband. Disgusting. I can't.

I'm such.

A- That is... I am so like, don't-I don't know. That's awful.

Lying, John. Well, it's funny because I learn about myself in every episode. I'm such a girl's girl. I'm always trying to like, Come on, girl.

I'm sure it's okay. Support your local woman. -support your local woman.

But yeah, she lost me there. That's not okay.

That's- It's so bad. It's gross. And I was like, Oh, okay. And now mind you, she's answering these questions under the guise of guiding me. So you have this young girl who I am 10-year at this point, she knows that I'm in my early 20s. I know that she's in her 30s. And by this point, I have looked at more pictures of her. I know that it's her at this point, especially after what she told me about her family and it all matched. I know that it's her without her confirming her real name. So now I know it's her. And so she's talking to this girl that she thinks is 10 or more years younger than her. And you're guiding me by saying, Yeah, do this unprotected sex with this guy and then go home and unprotect it. And I'm like-.

That's horrible.

That's horrible. Not only are you doing this. Like to your husband and to this man, and then he's doing it to potentially whoever his partner is, if he has one, then you're encouraging it. I would never tell a younger girl that I did. I would just be like, No, don't ever do it. You know what I mean?

Never. I don't know. No, I mean, absolutely. And also the entire concept of it. I've been thinking about the Sugar Baby dynamic as virtual for a lot of it. And then maybe sending clothes, sending, going out to dinner, if that's.

The interesting stuff. Yeah. And like, hey, maybe-.

And adding sex to it, I'm naive. Of course, there's sex.

I do feel like now you're affecting your husband, your children, your family. It's weird to do that. No, it's terrible. But anyway, so she tells me that she's hooked up with this guy and he paid her more. So this guy's clearly loaded. He's got money to throw around all willy-nilly. Does he have a rich friend. She's giving me tips. She's giving me advice. She's like, Oh, you could do this and you could ask for this. And this is how you negotiate or whatever. And you could ask for a raise. We're talking about how I can manipulate a Sugar Daddy into giving me more money for things. We're negotiating for a salary raise. It's wild. But I guess it's worked for her, right?

She sounds good at it.

She sure as heck does. She knows her stuff. So we're messaging and she basically just starts spilling the beans about all these hookups that she's had in person. I thought maybe this was her first one. She spills her guts about the different hookups that she's had. She's had online relationships that are long-distance and they do sugar baby stuff virtually and sexting and stuff like that. So she's basically doing both virtual and in person. And it makes me wonder if she was willing to do that with this guy? How many other guys has she gone bareback with?

It's absolutely sex work at this point. Yes. It's so interesting because it's not explicitly pay me for X, Y, Z, but that's what it turns into.

Right. So officially, non-officially, it is sex work. It is. At least from what she told me in our messages. I had the ability to chat with her over a long period of time. This is weeks that I'm talking to this girl, and she just keeps sharing with me about her experiences. And I asked her, How do you manage this? With your family or whatever? And she's like, You know what? I tried to make them... I've made it so that they think that I have not mental health issues, but she worded it in a way that was... What did she say? I make them think that I have a lot of anxiety. So mommy needs time for herself sometimes. And sometimes I just need to take a drive. Or sometimes I just need to go park at the beach and turn off my phone because it's good for my mental health. She's weaponising.

Me time.

So I end up asking her, and I had been trying to work up a way to ask her, Have you planned another date? Tell me about it. What are your plans? I get her to tell me about her plans with this guy. Now, mind you, she doesn't know that I know the city that she lives in. So she thinks that I live in a whole other state across the country because I told her that I wanted her to think I was so far away, whatever. So she tells me, she's like, Oh, he's taking me to this place called whatever. Well, this place is not a chain. So I was able to get on the Google machine and I find where this place is. And she's like, Oh, we're going out, whatever, whatever. I'm right down the road from this place, so I'm able to physically go out to- Oh no! I tell the husband, I'm like, Look. And I do not tell him what I have found so far because I don't want... In my experience, what happens is if you talk too soon, they blow up too soon. They blow everything and then you.

Can't- He'll show up there with a pitchfork.

Yeah. And then there's more questions or the one girl who just spit on the other woman. Classic. She was mad.

So anyway- That's a previous episode if anyone wants to go listen to that. It's called The Kool-Aid Man.

Yes, that's the one, The Kool-Aid Man. She wants to be like The Kool-Aid Man. Before I was able to get all the tea. So anyways, she tells me what they're doing, and she's like, Okay, this is what we're doing. And I'm like, Okay, so if a guy ever asks me out, and what would I wear? And she's like, Well, I'm wearing this red dress. And I'm like, This is too freaking easy. She's about.

To send you a selfie sitting in the booth, tell you exactly.

Where she is. I already knew what she drove, so I would be able to spot her easily. But she was giving it up. I am certain if I asked one more question, she would have given me her social security number. She was just spilling. So she tells me what she's doing with this guy on this date. I didn't want to share all the information too soon with the husband, but I did need to talk to him. And I was like, Okay, this is what's going down to get his approval to do the surveillance. Because if I just do it all willy-nilly and he hasn't hired me to do it, number one, I don't get paid. Number two, it's not legal. I had to get it on contract that this is what he wanted. I call the other investigator and I say, Hey, get this on contract. We're doing a surveillance. He gets a contract written up for the surveillance. We charge him, we bill, whatever. Now it's legal. Now it's on contract, right? I end up doing the surveillance. He gives me the go ahead. We do surveillance. And this woman meets this man at eight o'clock at this restaurant.

Can I ask how far the restaurant is from where she lives?

It was one town over. I can't.

Believe she wasn't worried about getting caught.

That's what I'm saying. There are other people in the world. You live in this area. You've lived here your whole life, and you're just going to go to this restaurant. Have a date? Yeah. It's wild, right? I would be so afraid of being spotted. If I was going to cheat on my husband, I would be like, Let's go to Texas. Nobody knows us there or North Dakota. Nobody knows it. Let's go cheat there. Because if you want to go to Denny's or something, let's go to the one in North Dakota. I'm not staying here because I'd be so afraid. I would be paranoid. Anyways, shes goes on a date with this guy. They meet at this restaurant. She pulls up. He pulls up. They meet. They go inside, whatever. So they're sitting, eating, they're drinking. I go inside and I'm getting video of this girl. I'm just documenting her. Now, this restaurant has a dress code. I don't know if it's like an official dress code, but everybody was dressed up nice. People look cute. They dressed up right. And I wasn't that dressy, so I stood out because I wasn't dressed up like everyone else.

So I couldn't stay in there long. But I was in there for just enough amount of time to catch her, like canoodling with this guy. They're in the booth, whatever. Her phone rings all night long. It's this person and that person, whatever. The husband said it wasn't him calling. He knew that I was there, so he wasn't about to call. And she would just swipe it away. Swipe it away. You could see her phone going off all night. No, no, no, no, no, just delete it. Whatever. Well, finally she turns her phone off. And so after a couple of hours, they leave this place. He walks her out to her car, which first of all, don't walk me out to my car. Now you know what I drive. Now you know my tag number, which means you could probably get my address. You could probably get access to my kids.

So true.

Like dating tip number, I don't know, 0.5. Don't freaking let a stranger know what car you.

Driving- Know your tag number.

-ridiculous. So anyways, I'm literally in the next parking lot over, and there's like... I mean, it's nighttime, so it's dark, but I could still zoom in and see what they're doing. He hands her a wad of cash. And by wad, I mean, like a rolled up wad, like a roll.

Of- Like full on-.

-bills with, I don't know- -HBO. I don't know if it was like, hunted... I don't know if it was hunted at once. I have no idea. A legit rubber band around it. What is this guy? This is like a drug dealer. Either this came from the evidence locker or this guy is a drug dealer, like 100 %. Oh, my God. Mind you, I've already looked up who this guy is. By the time they get to the restaurant and by the time they leave the restaurant, because I didn't see him arrive, I just saw him walk around the building to walk into the restaurant. I didn't know who to look for. But once he left, once they came out and he gets in the car, I'm already looking this guy up. I'm already narrowing down, like which car could be whatever.

Yeah. I was going to say the tag numbers give you everything.

Yes. And I didn't know because there was only a certain number of cars that parked on the side of the building where he had parked. And so I knew that it was one of them, but I couldn't figure out which one until I saw him leave in it. And then I was like, Okay, that's him. And it was a guy who is married. He's married. He's got kids. He's a local attorney. So you've got a sugar baby and a sugar daddy literally just met online connecting. You live in each other's backyard. And she's out here all willy-nilly doing unprotected sex with strangers and then going back to her husband, and he's going back to his wife. It was awful. But all of this happens. I call the client and I tell him, I say, Okay, the day is over. I gave him a brief synopsis of what happened. She's on her way home. He said, Well, tell me everything. I don't want to tell him everything because she's about to come home and I feel like it's safer for everyone. I don't know how he's going to react. I don't want a domestic violence situation.

So I say, Let's meet tomorrow. And I'll give you all the information. So he's away from her.

And so that way- That homeboy did not sleep that night.

No, he did.

Not sleep.

I know how hard it is to not... He knew that she was on a date or whatever because I had to tell him to do the surveillance. He knew that this was a planned date or whatever, but I didn't want to give him all the details until he was away from her with me in a public area where he couldn't... If he was going to go off, it wasn't going to be on her. She wasn't going to be there for him to go off on. It was like a safety thing. Anyway, I bring him to a restaurant that was nearby his house, and I was telling him everything. I told him all the details. This man turns green like he's going to throw up in his mouth. He was so- I.

Think I.

Would, I'm so disgusted. I think I would, too. The dude starts sobbing, like shoulder shaking, sobbing. My heart broke for him so bad. And he ended up telling me that they had struggled in their sex life because he's very vanilla and he's very straight edge. He's not into anything kinky. It's very vanilla. And she's expressed to him that she wants to do things that are more outside the norm. So kinky, a little fetishy, whatever. And he's like, I absolutely just don't. I just can't please her. And in that moment, when I broke his heart by giving him all the details, he knew. I could tell that he was like, he just knew. He was like, Yeah, okay. He knew. But at the same time, I think what hurt him the most was the amount of time that she had been doing this. The fact that they've struggled financially and she never contributed. He's like, All this money that she's earning. And mind you, remember, she told me the money that she's making from these guys, so she might have been making it up. But from what she said and based on her experiences and based on the lot of cash that this guy gave her, she's done this before.

I guess I just feel like this... I don't know. I guess it broke my heart that I had to break his heart. And that's the worst part of the job.

The fact that she betrayed an insecurity, like cheating on someone because of problems in your sex life is just a devastating thing to have to go through. And then to add the fact that she's a sugar baby and repeatedly taking advantage of people and her husband and getting all this money. I would be, Oh, my God. And then obviously not using condoms is a health anxiety. That's disgusting.

That's just common sense. I'm adding- That's just common sense. Come on.

This woman, it's so funny how I start off, I'm always like, Girls, go get your bag. And then she's destroyed all of my hope in... I'm so mad.

But just to make it clear for our audience, we are never shaming anyone. We're not yucking anyone's yum. Obviously, cheating hurts people. And so I think that's what is hard for most people to get past. But we will never shame anybody for cheating. We don't agree with it. Obviously, it hurts people. But I do want to make it clear that just like we say, and I try to make it clear as much as possible that everybody's human. We all make mistakes. You're not a bad person, but it just sucks because there's so much heartache that comes with that. The story was a duzy, right? It's crazy. And also, Molly, can you mute your typing and we can hear it? Molly, go away.

Wait, so is that the end? So you tell him what happened?

Yeah. I tell this guy what happened and we ended up coming together. I spilled the beans about everything. This guy is totally heartbroken. They end up getting divorced. I found out that they were divorced, I think, a year and a half later. They end up getting... Which I think that was for him, that's what he needed to do, and that's fine. But after being together for so long, I just think it was the whole time they were together, basically. Their whole marriage was basically her being a sugar baby. I think another part that really broke my heart was when he was talking about they struggled financially so bad. First of all, if she was doing these things, she's cheating no matter what. But also to be doing this and earning money, but then not contributing that money back to the family, but stashing it for yourself because you're planning on getting out, that's crappy. These were like, That's your kids, too. That's your kid's groceries. I don't know. For me, I guess I just feel like, I don't know. That's crappy.

Did she ever say anything like, I'm getting this money for my children. I'm doing this for my children. Because it doesn't really feel like.

That was the sentiment. No, she never said. The only thing she said about the money was the way that she presented it, she was stashing it because she basically.

Was - Because her husband.

Was vanilla. Yeah. This is not a relationship that she's going to be staying in.

Man, I feel like the first step, if that's how you're feeling, is sex therapy, not pet life, but to each their own. That's it.

That's it. That's it.

You didn't think this was a crazy story. People are going to... Just the world of her journey is crazy.

Well, you went through a journey for sure. You're like, Wait, I like her. I hate her. I don't like her. Wait, I want to talk to you, but also I.

Don't like her. No, I don't think I am not happy with her. I would like to give her a good talking to. But I- You're so horrible. I guess it's just... Yeah, there was a part of me in this moment where I was like, Am I too naive and nice where I'm trying to be like, give people the benefit of the doubt? Out and empathize with everyone? You don't know anybody's story. But I also was in my head like, Oh, the people listening to this are going to be like, This is horrible behavior and no excuse.

There's just so much nuance to everyone's story. But I am very upset and sad for this man.

Yeah. And just to make it clear, like I said, just to make it clear, I do not want to demonize anybody. And although this is our podcast and we're allowed to share our opinion, I will let you know that as a human being, all of us as human beings do things that later on we might be like, I'm not so proud of that. And maybe you are proud of it. Maybe it's something you were like, That's what I needed to do for me, or whatever. Even though the rest of us are being like, That's not very great. But you're still a human being. It's not our business. It is my business legitimately. It's your business. I literally get paid for this. But it's one of those things where we are not here to demonize anybody. So basically, I want to let our listeners know that this is not like a man-bashing station, a woman-bashing state. We're not bashing anyone.

A sugar baby-bashing station. You're a sugar baby.

We do not yuck anybody's yum. Do you, boo. But I think the facts of each story are interesting, and sometimes it's heartbreaking. And so it's like, Oh, how could she do this? I do feel like in this case, I think she was a little bit of the villain. Not a bad human. In this story. Some people would argue and be like, No, she is a bad person. But that's not... I just.

Don't know. Yeah. Do you think we're being also... Yes, obviously, we are not man-hating, but we've never had this conversation with this story, I don't remember with a male dogfish. It is easier for us to be like, Fuck that guy, than it is to do it with women. That's what I was.

Going to say too, is if this was a man doing this, would we be like, Oh, we get it. Whatever. It would be like, Oh, this is a horrible man, and he's how dare he. I do think there is a little bit of a double standard. I just do. But I also think that double standard is because there's a double standard with the way that men and women are different and the way that we feel things. Because women think more emotionally about things and men think more with maybe the brain in their pants, a lot of times we might say. There's a lot involved.

But either way- Statistically, there's just more harm done by men, not only. But we have reason to be a little stressed about our safety.

If we're in a minority. Sure. If you're unprotected sex, that's all fine and well. But if you have multiple partners, obviously, like if you're going to get some love and use a glove. What is it? How does it go?

No love, no glove.

No glove, no love.

No glove, no love.

That's what it is. No glove, no love. Anyways, it was a roller coaster. And it's so funny because it is true that you guys, I've been doing this for so long. I've been doing this job. And whenever Molly and Hannah, we were talking about, I was like, Oh, I did a case like this. And they were like, Wait, what? You got to share that. And I'm like, Oh, no. Like record-scratched? Yeah. And they're like, You got to share that story. And I'm like, No, that's stupid. And they're like, How could you not... It's just so crazy how I feel very numb to some of these stories just because I've been doing it for so long. It's really crazy. So it's really nice getting your perspective, first of all, as someone younger, as someone who's not a private investigator, someone who's a little bit opposite in some ways. That's what's cool about our dynamic is that I am so numb to these. And so seeing and hearing your reactions are really, really... It's really interesting.

Yeah, we're opposites. You're the PI and I'm a sugar baby.

No, she is not a sugar baby. She's joking.

I don't wish.

For the record, Hannah is not a sugar baby, and she has no interest. Is that correct, Hannah?

I have no interest.

If our email box blows up like, Hannah, do you want to be my sugar baby? You know what I'm going to do?

If anybody wants to be my sugar daddy, I'm going to send you the link to our patron because for just five dollars a month you could contribute to a podcast and make.

You happy. Yeah, about that.

In return, I will give you two episodes a month, a chat room access.

And.

A live stream with us. Although I don't know that I want anybody on there that is trying to be a sugar daddy.

Maybe a low cut T-shirt shot. You are a dirty dog. You're a.

Dirty dog. Let's just say that we reserve the right to kick anyone off our patron. If this.

Helps, then tell us. Just to make that disclaimer clear. But speaking of patron, we have been having a blast on the patron. We love connecting with you guys. If you have not subscribed yet, like Hannah said, it's only five dollars a month that gets you two bonus episodes a month of The Dating detectives. And it's just a little bit more less formal. And it's really fun to connect. We do live chats with each other with you guys, and we can connect with you guys. There's a chat, board, forums, whatever. It's really cool. We do lots of things.

It's basically a set-up. No, it's not. No, it's not.

Don't put that in the.

No, it's very safe and- I'm not going to kill them.

And there may or may not be some sexy pictures of Hannah showing up soon with a very low cut shirt on, I guess.

Okay. Every picture of us is sexy, let's be honest.

I'm wearing a turtle neck from now on.

We're humble, too.

We.

Really are.

I can't wait to hear what people think. I want to know if.

Any of you guys are Sugar Babies or Sugar Daddies. If you have a story to share about something like the Sugar Mommies? Yeah. Will you please write into us or text or something that send us a message? You can be totally anonymous if you want to. We can change your voice, whatever. We're just really interested in hearing more... We're interested in hearing your part in different relationships. And just like, this woman dog fished a lot of dudes over her time as a sugar baby. Oh, and I forgot to tell you, hold on. I forgot to tell you guys she's still active on the pet life. Yeah.

You didn't give us her real username, right? Because people are going to go look her up.

No, there's no, of course, I wouldn't do that. But I did because in preparation for this episode, I was like, I wonder if she's still active. And I forgot to tell you that, yes, she is still active on the pet life. Well, let us.

Know what you think about her. You can message us on Instagram, dating detectives podcast or TikTok or Facebook. We are not on Kik. So you can't send us a message there. Or you can email us, I'm going to get our email right this time, investigate@datingdetectivepod. Com.

Yeah, email us your stories. And we want to share your story on the podcast or on the patron, whichever. Just let us know. We just want to hear your story, and we'll give you a voice if you feel like you don't have one. So thank you guys so much for listening. And I'm dying to know what you think about this story. So I guess that's it. And as always, trust your fem tuition.

Trust your fem tuition and wear a condom.

No glove, no love. For real, though.

Like, everyone needs that reminder.

Come.

On, guys. All right. I love you.

Love you both. Bye.