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Hello again, Hannah.

We're back. Everybody's probably been waiting.

I know. You know what?

This.

Is the first time where people actually, I think, were not super angry with us. They were... You guys, we appreciate you being so patient.

Well, it's fun because we haven't done a two-part episode in a while, and I feel like our audience has grown so grateful and exciting. But we have patron now.

We don't try to do them.

Right. But it just felt like so many more of you had theories and all over the place on patron, on DMs, on comments. Everybody had ideas and everyone was talking about it with each other, which made my heart happy. But I did promise a T-shirt if somebody guessed the ending and people had good theories, people had some partially correct theories, but I didn't see anyone get.

The- Yeah, partially correct. Exactly.

I'm excited for you all to hear the rest of this story. It's bonkers, and she's been through it. If you have not listened to part one, you definitely have to go back and listen to that. But here's a quick recap update to refresh your memory. We are talking to Lauren. Lauren married her college sweetheart. They were very young. They met at a religious university. Since they've gotten married, he has had multiple unrelated medical crises that she has had to help him through. His family is pretty MIA when it comes to the medical stuff, so that's that. Then she's also found a box of debt in the back of his closet, and he was like, Oh, yeah, that. He didn't deny it. He just was like, Oops. They're working on that. They've moved in with her parents to save money and get help with his medical problems. Where we left off is that her family doctor is seeing him and has suggested that this might be psychological and that maybe he should see psychological help. We were like, What? What happens next? We're all of you, and now we get to find out. I will say stay to the end of the episode because there are some medical things that come up and we talked to an expert and got some expert information that we're going to go through at the end of the episode.

If you're interested in that, you'll get a little breakdown.

I can't wait to hear the theories that came out. I want to hear what those people have to say. Luke, okay, I think we should get into it.

Let's.

Do it. Yeah, how lucky are we that she's telling us the story? Let's give it back to her. Part two, baby.

Throughout all of this, we kept going back to that primary care physician, and he made a comment that really caught me and David off guard. He was like, Hey, so I think it's great that we're finding all these answers, but I really think that David needs to go and see a psychiatrist. Why? That all of these medical things that he's had, even just like that year don't line up. That he thinks there's something else going on. What do you mean?

Yeah, I forgot that this was all in the course of a year. He's had three separate, serious health scares in one year.

Yes. He thought it was really odd for a 21, 22-year-old young man to be having all of these issues and to have them so in such short succession, he was basically like, Hey, I think you need to go and see a psychiatrist.

My brain is going so fast.

Right now.

I know. There are so many things to do. I think I'm.

Going to keep going. There are so many things to do. The theories are flying.

Yes. Immediately, as soon as David heard that, he got really defensive. He's like, I'm not crazy. That's really offensive. I went into protective wife mode, and I was like, Why would you say that? We discarded it immediately. And we're just like, Obviously, this is not psychological. We thought, Thanks, but no thanks for that.

You witnessed it. You were like, I've seen that this is something that this is real. It's not in his head.

Exactly. David ended up needing surgery to address the mastoiditis stuff.

Surgery?

And it was mostly to fix the sinuses and the deviated septum. They were saying basically, if we rotoruter all of your sinuses, then it will drain properly and then it will cure the mastoiditis as a secondary.

Okay.

So we had that procedure. I was working full-time.

He still does not have insurance?

And we were able to get him on some basic state, like federal insurance.

Thank heavens. At least there's something.

Yeah, we had really basic care. I was working full-time. I would come home, check on him on my breaks and things like that. And then I would go back to work. Well, one day my mom pulled me aside and she basically said, Hey, I've been doing some research after talking with Dr. So and so, and I want to bring something to your attention and see what you think. And she said, I've come across this condition called Munchausen's syndrome. No. It sounds a lot like what David has going on. I said, Tell me more. So you started to tell me a little bit more that it can basically be an individual subconsciously manifesting diseases in their body or the symptoms of those diseases. A piece of it, like it did ring true.

To me. You were like, Yeah.

But at the same time, I was also very defensive. I was like, No, he can't possibly have that. That's no. I shut my mom down. Because that's absurd. Yeah.

It's not common. It's crazy. I know a lot more, I feel like about Munchhausen's by proxy because of that Mom and the show. The show and the show. So that's when somebody's making someone else sick, right? Or like -.

Or making them think that they're sick.

And this is just when you can do it to yourself. Okay, just.

Quick science lesson. In some extreme situations, individuals can be poisoning themselves to make them sick and things like that.

Or I've heard of people don't they make their wounds worse or they can?

That's the gist of it, is that it's a psychological condition that is very consciously rooted. And so it can be really hard to diagnose. It can be really hard to even fully wrap your head around what it could mean and how it can manifest. But I immediately shut my mom down and was like, There's no way he can't possibly have that. There's just no way. I just shut it down. Once David had healed from his nose and sinus surgery, he did find a job and started working. But again, by this point, we are so far in debt. We had known each other, just known each other for just barely over a year at this point. This is probably beginning of February.

Right. You're married, you're in debt. We're married. He's got this.

Medical thing. Just with his medical bills, not even the other box of crap, but just his medical bills, there was over $27,000 of medical bills that we had already wrecked at. And this spreadsheet was so extensive that I remember writing. I was writing $5 checks and mailing $5 checks to every provider.

Just to send something out.

Yes. Just as a good faith payment. We had collectors calling, and my parents were trying to help as much as they could here and there.

Were your parents starting to feel differently about him because he brought this? I mean, not the medical thing necessarily, but the debt that he brought.

Beforehand- I never told them about that.

Oh.

They didn't- Wow. Really?

Uh-uh. So they just thought the.

Medical stuff? No, because I didn't want.

Them- I get it.

To worry or to be in- It wasn't their business. It was between me and him.

No, you're right.

Yeah. And so it was just the medical and they just didn't know how to help. They would try to like... Oh, man. Occasionally, when it got really bad, I would actually go to them and be like, hey, we have this collection agency from this medical bill. Is there any way you could lend us some money? They would give us a few thousand here, a few thousand there. It just.

That- Was he okay with you doing that? Did he know about it?

Or did he know?

He knew. He didn't like it, but I don't know, but he took it.

Yeah. Well, he had no choice.

But it wasn't like he had an attitude where he was like, expecting anything.

No. And he didn't ever tell me like, Hey, you should go ask your parents because they have money.

Because that would make me think that he's doing this just to try to.

Get you all this money. Yeah, right. Well, that's usually a motive. Right.

But it was just really difficult to try to keep all of that. He did find a job and was working full-time. Then in March, he decided, You know what? I really do want to start a family sooner than later. We've got to take care of this debt. We've got to get ourselves in a better spot. I think I'm going to file for bankruptcy and just.

Wipe out- Does that take care of the medical bills too?

I don't know what the laws are now. At the time, it was an option. He had talked with a neighbor who was an attorney and was working on what that would look like. The biggest problem is that his car was cosigned by... They weren't literally his grandparents, but they were his acting grandparents. They had cosigned on the car. So if he filed bankruptcy that they would go after the grandparents for the car. We obviously didn't want to do that. We decided to take my car that was paid off and trade it in, pay off all of his negative equity in his car. And then we would get two leases in my name so that it wouldn't be touched by the bankruptcy.

Right.

Okay, that makes sense. I went from having no car payment for me and his car payment to having two lease payments in my name.

That's a lot. It was a lot, but I didn't love the idea, but I did agree to it. I knew what I was doing, and I.

Went along with it. You were gung ho in support of your husband at this point, right?

Yeah. I just kept thinking, okay, once he gets healthy, then we can start to have a normal life. We can start to have a normal marriage. We can start to just have anything normal. Just anything normal would be great. We got the two cars and he was working and I was working, and things are okay for about a month. They were actually like we were still having the calls and the bills and everything, but that wasn't going away anytime soon.

But his health was good? His health. Or seemingly okay?

Yep, he was in a really good spot. And then he got hurt at work.

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He had an injury at work, an injury to his knee, to his patella. And he had to undergo pretty invasive surgery on his knee where they shaved off the front of his chinbone, shifted it over, bolted it back in place. Supposedly, that was supposed to help keep his patella where it was supposed to stay. It was a pretty intensive surgery. Sexy. Right? Sexy. He had to have the surgery on his knee. This was a really intensive surgery. He could barely walk. I had to help him get up and down from bed, go to the bathroom. Not working, I'm sure. Yeah, he was definitely off of work. I had to help him shower, everything, get dressed. He couldn't do anything by himself for- That's a lot. -probably about a month. So during work, at my lunch, I would drive home. I'd get him food. I'd help him get up, go to the bathroom, go get settled back on the recliner with his ice, and I'd go back to work.

You were literally taking care of him.

Your nurse, your full-time nurse.

Yeah. That was about a month and then he could finally get around on his own pretty easily. It was right around that time that he was coming up on his birthday. He decided he wanted to go back home and spend a week with his family. I couldn't leave because I didn't have vacation time at work, but he was still off of work because of his knee. He drove up to spend a week with his family. While he was up there, his youngest brother was, I think, about 12 at the time. It was like his little mini me, like his little shadow. That brother really struggled when we got married because he felt like I was taking David away, which is another reason why I felt it was so important to go over on Sundays and make sure that he still had his brother. We're still family. It's okay. I'm not stealing him. David had the brilliant idea to bring this brother back home to stay with us for a little bit. My biggest thing was, I don't have an issue if you want to bring him back, but your mom and stepdad have to figure out how to get him back home because we're not going to drive them back eight hours.

We're not going to fly. You got to figure out how.

To get him back home. That's a lot of driving. It is.

It is. And so that's- And.

You're still at your parents?

Yeah. Yeah, that's a lot. You're busy. We're still at my parents. They say, Fine, we'll agree to that. He brings the brother back home. I think he's going to be there for a week, maybe two, because we're in summer now, so he doesn't have school. Then it gets to be like three weeks and the brother is still there. It wouldn't be that bad, except for this brother really doesn't like me that much. Right. He would do these little passive-aggressive things to try to just show me that I was not welcome. Like little stupid things. I mean, and he's a 12-year-old boy, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

You can let it roll off your.

Back if you're also like- Take it with you, right?

Exactly. I'm the adult in this situation. He's a kid. But there is this one day that we were all walking out to the backyard, and David was first and then his brother and then me and the brother grabbed the door behind him and slammed it in my face. Eew, rude. Because he didn't want me to go out. I was like, okay- I would.

Have snatched that kid up.

Yeah. I was raised in the south, so I was like, No, sir, you did not. No, no.

We don't tolerate that disrespect.

No. I talked to David and I was like, Hey, I think it's time for brother to go home. He's becoming increasingly comfortable with showing me disrespect, and I'm struggling with it, and I need you to have my back and talk to your brother.

That was a master class in communication right there.

Yeah, I like that.

Well, it didn't work. Oh, no. Shit. Thank you, Hannah. I wish he would have seen it the same way. He actually got really defensive and was like, There's no way. He didn't do that. He didn't know. He didn't believe me and he didn't defend me. And he took.

His brother's side. I hate that. He was just so mad.

That's so hard. You have to be on a team with your partner, even with your family. I think that's so important.

Yeah. And so it was at that point that I realized it's time for brother to for real go home. You need to call your mom and we got to get him on a bus or something. I mean, heck, I don't care. Put him on a carrier pigeon, but he needs to go home. And his mom and stepdad refused and they wouldn't do it. They wouldn't pay. And so eventually David was like, I just need to drive him back home. And I was like, You got to be kidding me. That's exactly what I said I didn't want to happen. And they said they just wouldn't pay. And so if I wanted that kid to go home, then we were going to have to drive him back. And so David got in the car, drove brother back eight hours north, decided to stay for another week. I said, Well, at least get your parents to pay for the gas.

Of course they don't.

Yeah. If they're not going to pay to fly him back or whatever variation of shipping him back, at least pay for the gas. And that turned into a really huge fight where David accused me of only caring about money and finances and I don't care about people.

After your family has done so much for him financially and otherwise.

That's very frustrating. That was probably one of our biggest blowout fights.

I would have been so mad.

And that was probably the day before he came home. So he came home and he was off. You could tell he was still mad at me, which I was still mad at him. Like hopefully so. But he was... Because typically he blows off his steam and then he's fine. I'm the one that sits in the stew pot for a while, but he was still off when he got back, which was hard because that week we were supposed to house it for a neighbor. Him and I were staying at a neighbor's house at night, and here we're real salty and icy with each other. I basically just told him, I was like, Hey, I know you're not a big talker, but we do need to talk about this. So when you're ready, you let me know. And so by this time, we're the first week of July. And we're leading up to the fourth of July holiday. So there's a lot of fun things coming up this weekend. I wanted to have our issues resolved before we got to the holiday festivities. But he just wasn't ready to talk to me. We're just going through the motions.

On July third, he had a doctor's appointment with that same doctor that he'd been going to this whole time that my family's known for years. The doctor that said, You need to go talk to a psychiatrist. He was going in for a final inspection on his knee after the surgery to basically say, You're cleared to go back to work, or, You're not cleared to go back to work. He met with this doctor. I wasn't able to go to the appointment because I had to work. But my mom went. That's how tight he and my mom were. My mom went to the doctor's appointment with him. In that appointment, the doctor gave him it all clear. Then he was like, Well, are you sure? I don't want to risk it. I don't want to risk rate injury. Do we need to give it another week or two? The doctor was like, No, absolutely not. You're fine. Your knee is fine. If you're not willing to go talk to a psychiatrist and admit there may be something else going on, then you need to just be a normal functioning human being and husband and supportive spouse. You need to go back to work.

You need to start contributing to your family. You need to stop being a burden to this marriage and start carrying some of the weight of this marriage and take some of the weight off of Lauren's shoulders.

Okay. This doctor really came in swinging.

I wanted to hug that doctor and say, Thank you. I need my husband to be present and we need to figure this out. If he really is okay, then great, he needs to be okay.

Yeah, and he had to have known that now he's been had.

Exactly.

Yeah. Then the night of July third, so going into the fourth, we're at this neighbor's house staying at their house. I have this terrible nightmare that he's like, All right, Lauren, let's sit down and let's talk. He proceeds to tell me that he's not happy, that he feels like he needs to go back home and that he is leaving, that he's just leaving. I wake up, I'm in a cold sweat. I reach over and he's still there. I think, Oh, thank goodness, he's still here. Here. He's still here. It was like this horrible nightmare. We wake up, it's the fourth of July. I'm excited for the festivities. He's still a little icy towards me, but it is what it is. It's a holiday. We don't have to work. I'm hoping it's going to be a good day. That afternoon, we are in our room at my parents' house, and he says, All right, Lauren, I need you to sit down. I need to talk to you.

So you- No.

-shut up. This is final destination. Shut up.

I sit down and he proceeds to tell me I'm just not really very happy. I think I need to move back home. What? He proceeds to word for word tell me exactly what I dreamed that he was leaving me.

That.

Is crazy. I understand that you were feeling anticipatory. Is that the word? What? You're anticipating that something like this could happen, but the timing of that is where the world is weird. So confused.

Yeah.

Okay, but then so, oh, my God. Did he say he wants a divorce?

No. Yeah, I'm in shock too. So then what happens? Then what happens? Not a divorce.

No, he doesn't want a divorce. He just wants to go back and try to find himself and figure out what he wants. He doesn't think we want the same things anymore, but he just needs to figure out himself and take some time. I was just so in shock that I didn't see it for him just leaving me.

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This was all right before we were supposed to go to my aunt's house for a huge barbecue and fireworks and the whole shebang for the fourth of July. Okay. So we get ready to go. We're still going to go because I'm in that level of shock that I'm like, Well, they're expecting us to show up.

So we- Yeah, that's what you do. You put your head down and you work.

So that's what we do. You get the crap done. And so we show up and we're holding hands and we're all lovey-dovey in front of my family. And then after fireworks, we leave and go back to my parents' house. And we're getting ready to pack stuff up to go to the neighbor's house to still go and watch the neighbor's house and their dogs and and he's planning to leave in the morning. I told him, You need to say bye to my parents. He's like, No, I don't know. I was like, No, no, no, no, no. They have let us live here. They have supported us. They love you, especially my mom. My mom treated him like a son. Because at least you could do. Yes, at least say goodbye. That night, my parents finally got home pretty late. We go downstairs, they're in the kitchen, and I say, Mom, Dad, David's got something that he needs to share. David proceeds to share that he just feels like he needs to take some time and move back with his family. My mom is very level headed and is very, Let's talk about it. Walk us through.

What are you feeling? What's leading to this? Very calm.

Oh.

Bless her. Just very calm. Let's just talk about it. Maybe let's see if we can find a counselor that we can get you guys in with, or let's just see. And she's got him about to the point where he's agreeing to stay and talk to someone about this. Then all of a sudden in the background, there is my dad who is basically the embodiment of the anger character from inside out.

Okay. And protective, I'm sure. I'm like, How dare you do this to us?

What happened? What did you say? I am Daddy's little girl, 1,000 %. And he sees.

Like.

No, you don't do this.

To my.

Daughter or my family.

Yes, he sees right through what David's doing.

Does he call him out?

He does. He calls him out and he's like, You coward. I can't believe you're doing this. And just goes off and David immediately retreats. He turns around and he books it upstairs to our bedroom. He runs away.

Thank you. Oh, my God. He literally runs away from.

Your dad. He is a runner. Okay.

Yes, he runs and he hides in our bedroom. I go to follow him. Right behind us is my mom and dad. I'm like, Oh, my gosh, just let it be. And my dad is like, raging. He's only seeing red. I don't know what my dad would have done, but I fortunately, between my mom and I, we got him to calm down and just leave. Then once my dad was out, David literally ran away. He ran out the front door and we lived near some government land, some Bureau of Land Management land. It's a mountainous area. And he literally just runs up the mountain in the middle of the night. What?

Oh, my God.

Yes.

Get out of here. He's just runs up- Dramatic. So dramatic. So he.

Just runs up the mountain.

It's like a real, cinematic moment.

Yes. And we can't find him. And so we end up going... And this is all just so crazy. We end up going to our church leader house because he works for the Bureau of Land Management. He lives up on the mountain. He knows the mountains really well, and we just need help. We're like, we don't know what to do. We don't know who to go to. We need help finding David. He's in the mountains. What do we do?

We lost a boy on the mountain. We lost a boy.

We need to call it- It's not funny, but also.

What- It's not-.

-search and rescue.

I mean, were you worried about his mental health? Yeah. What are we worried about at this point? What are we worried about at this point? What's the worst-case scenario? Are we worried about him, obviously the breakup? Or is it like, he's going through some things?

I don't even totally know what I was the most worried about with him besides just finding him. Because it's not like he knew that area.

He.

And I aren't hikers. I like to look at mountains, but I don't like to traips around them. Girl, same.

Don't ask me to go on a hike.

I don't know the area. Our church leader takes his dog and a flashlight and goes hiking up this mountain to find David in the middle of the night.

Oh, my God. It's a dark and windy night. You were right.

It's a dark and windy night again.

A.

Dark and windy night. This is so bizarre.

He's- He's so tiny. He's up in the mountains. Our church leader finds him. Where was he? He was up in the mountain somewhere. I don't even know. But the church leader.

Is- He was finding himself.

What do you mean? Just all willy-nilly just in the mountains?

Yeah. He just was up there sitting and crying and having a breakdown. Our church leader found him and just sat with him and talked with him and calmed him down and just asked if he'd be willing to stay and talk and let's work through things. Let's get some help. David, at that point, was done. He was like, I just need to get out of here. I can't live in the same house as Lauren's dad. Which, I mean, after how mad my dad got, I -.

After he violently threatened him, I guess.

I can understand why he might not want to be around my dad. We ended up being able to talk him into going to the neighbor's house that we were house sitting for. We talked for a a and he still was going to leave. The next morning on July fifth, David wakes up. He packs up a suitcase full of stuff, and he gets in the car and drives home to where his mom lives. Your car?

Your leased car?

I was about to say.

Your- Just the car. -leased car? Yeah. At this point, I was still thinking we had a chance.

I was still thinking- You thought this was just a.

Break to go home. Yes. He just needs some time. He needs to figure out some stuff, and we're going to work through it. It's going to be fine. We're going to work through it. And so I'm meeting with my church leader. I'm meeting with mental health professionals. And they're all like, Lauren, this isn't going to last. It's over. You need to accept that this is over. And I was like, No, it's not. We can totally come out. We can make it through this. We can totally make it. We just need to give give some some time I'll move up there. What do I need to do to make it work? And they were just like, Well, okay. He wouldn't let me come visit him. I kept telling telling him You give me the word and I will be there in eight hours. I will come, I will quit my job, I will pack up our crap, whatever you tell me and I will be there because we got to work through this. Then finally, one day we were on the phone and we were having a bit of an argument. Argument. And said, You know what, Lauren?

I'm done. I am done. I said, Don't say that unless you mean it. It. And was like, No, I mean it. I said, You know what? I'm going to hang up because I don't think you really mean it. I hung up and my mom was right there and she was like, What just happened? I told her and she was like, You call him back and you make sure you call him back. I called him back and I said, Hey, did you really mean it? Are you done? Are you for real done? Done? And said, Yeah, I'm for real done. Done.

And I said, Did you have a reason? Did he say why? I don't get it.

He never to this day. He has never given me a reason why he left. Really? He's never given me a reason why he left besides that he's unhappy and he needs to find himself and he doesn't think we want the same things. Things. And so was at that point that I finally went talk to a lawyer.

You don't want debt? No.

Yeah. I finally went and talked to a lawyer and the lawyer said, Is there anything that would qualify you for an allement instead of divorce? Because with an allement, you don't take any of his debt.

Right. Ioh, the debt. Oh, the debt. Okay, so what happened?

Happened? So what Oh, the debt.

Yeah, all of his debt. I just take the card debt that everything else would be him. And I was like, No, No, I don't like that. Nothing. And then the next day, the brother that's just younger than him-.

He.

He spill the beans. Beans.

What is What is it? Yes. And that brother called and said, Hey, we think think you to know the truth.

What's the truth?

Oh, my God.

No. What is it?

It? Yes. Be continued. No. I was like, don't let this this us. Molly, make a mistake. Panicked. And so he proceeded to tell me that David had Munchausen's syndrome.

They knew?

And that they never told me because they felt that the Munchausen's syndrome would create these situations when he was feeling really stressed or he wasn't loved or these different types of situations. And he's been doing it his whole life. And I had no idea. I'd asked him in the past if he'd always been sick, and he said, No, I had tubes put in my ears when I was four or or five, then I broke my arm when I was 20. And other than that, I've never been sick or hospitalized.

So he lied.

So, yeah, he lied about that. And his family didn't ever correct it. It.

Is that what- I have.

So they knew that he had Munchausen's Munchausen's That.

Is what his family told me. And that they thought that because of how much I loved him and how much constant attention I gave to him and how supportive I was of him that it would maybe fix it. It.

Okay. Well, me just play out a thought. From the limited knowledge that I have of of I feel like part of it is wanting to be in the role of needing care. So the opposite feels true for me that you being such a caretaker to me would would I just feel like like heard that Munchaus is like, part of it is that you psychologically want to play the sick role and adopt that identity of needing support and getting acceptance and needing... And you gave him all of that. It's interesting that they thought that him not being stressed would solve it when I think that the opposite.

I'm so confused. And so that was enough. And he was aware that that was a thing. Thing. That's of why he freaked out so much when our primary care physician, right off the bat, was like, hey, actually, we think this is more psychological. And that's why he freaked out so much is because we were that close.

Yeah, he was like running away from your diagnosis. But that doesn't answer my.

Question, though. Wait, I got to Google Munchausen's because if Munchausen's is something that they're not aware, like this guy totally dog-fished you. You. But he know it? It? Did he.

Know he was Did he know he was lying?

I think he's a good person, generally speaking. I think he just- This is sad. Yeah. I think he just has a lot of psychological stuff. I think for him, he's very far into denial. I don't think he thought he was lying. He was lying, but I don't think it was intentional. I think it was self-preservation. I think it was denial. I think it was him.

Wanting.

To be loved and accepted. I don't think he went into it trying to deceive me about this.

What happened after that, Lauren? What happened after they- Yeah, what.

You say on that.

Call, too.

Yeah. Everything just snapped into place. It all just made so much sense at that point. I mean, obviously, I was shocked and surprised, but it was very very I thanked him for calling and telling me, and so I called my lawyer and that did qualify us for annulment.

Did it? Really?

It did. Because if I had known about this type of psychological condition, I may not have married him. If I had known this this going to be a lifelong thing, it's like someone with holding an addiction. It's like someone someone anything like that. It is something that will affect you for the rest of your life and therefore affect your spouse.

That is good to know.

I imagine you were heartbroken. Heartbroken. Were you Was there a point where you were like, I don't want to break up with this guy, but this is also freaking weird. I can't just do this my whole whole.

What was your.

Thought process?

So by that point, my whole world had shattered. Yeah. My biggest fear up until that point was marrying the wrong person. Person. And so have this level of betrayal and abandonment, it rocked my whole world. I was not okay for a long time. I was grateful that we did qualify for an allment because then I didn't have all of the financial, everything on top of the emotional, everything. I mean, I now had two cars in my name that I had to deal with. With. So parents helped me with that. They bought out one of the leases so that I could sell the the car and what I can from that and then give it back to them. And then what came up at that same time was my parents had helped a lot with medical bills and collections and things like that. And it had... When all was said and done, when we were doing the annulment paperwork, we had had to add all up. And it ended up being around $15,000 to $18,000 that my parents had- Given to who? Who? Given to us. Us. And lawyer had suggested that we put that into the annulment paperwork that he needed to pay my parents back.

Because it was all for his stuff that was going with him in the annulment that I would have never asked for that money or anything if it hadn't been for him.

Right. It had been for his his.

Medical- Right, yeah.

His situation that had we we I may not have even married him in the first place. We were talking about putting this into the the annulment paperwork, just to demonstrate how close he and my mom were, he ended up calling my mom and having a side conversation, mother to son son style, basically just promised her that he would pay her back and just asked her not to put it, not to have me put it in the paperwork. And so it was because of that that we didn't put that money in the the paperwork. And the other really crazy thing about the money and not putting it in the annulment paperwork is that this is also when I found out the truth about my wedding ring.

We're circling back.

What's the truth? I I thank God about the wedding ring. Too.

I was like, like, that's just an interesting part. Okay, tell us about the ring.

So the truth about the wedding ring is that the night before the wedding, we're at the the and my mom made a comment about the the ring, and said he didn't have it. It. And mom's like, What do you mean you don't have the ring? Ring? And said that the jeweler refused to deliver it. It. And mom, being the good Southern lady that she is, was like, Well, gracious, no, that's just not going to fly. My daughter's not going to have a wedding ring on.

Her wedding ring. She needs a ring.

She said gracious, no.

That's just not going to work out. Out. My said, You get that jeweler on the phone and we're going to have a little chit chat. And so the jeweler gets on the phone and proceeds to say that they have the the ring. Happy to deliver it, but that David has not paid a penny on it since the $50 down payment when I was with him. What? And so he's like, like, so me, ma'am, but I am not about to drive a several thousand dollar ring to someone who has not even made a single good faith payment. So thank you, but no, thank you. Fair enough.

Did your mom have to end up paying for the ring?

So my mom gave him a credit card number over the phone and paid for the ring in full that night. Night. And is how we got the ring. Ring.

And never, I'm sure, saw that paid back to her.

Oh, no, he has not paid either of my parents a penny.

To this day?

To this day. Day. So the goes goes through, financials are included in the annulment. And we both go our own separate ways because we didn't have kids. There really wasn't anything keeping us tied. And that is where we now jump to 2019. And I'm just scrolling the book of faces and a mutual friend from college posts a GoFend me. And it's a picture of David. And I was like, What? Of course, I'm going to click on this. And so I open it up and it's David. And side note, he did end up getting remarried and had two kids with another gal. And so it's just go fend me. And it's all of this medical stuff. And I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, man, I dodged a bullet. And then so I go digging for for more. Else is going on.

On with As you should, should, Sleuth.

Yes. It It Pandora's box box I haven't thought about this person for years, and now I'm going to go and learn everything I can about them. That is when I found another video, like a live interview type thing with people from the community where he lived. He was basically just talking about some of their experiences. Stay with me for a minute. This was.

Leading up to- I'm with you, girl. I'm with you. I'm on the edge of my seat.

This was leading up to to Pride in the the community, he was interviewing them about their experiences. And then he brings on another guest at the very end. End. He says, is the most important guest to me. I would like to introduce you to my husband.

What?

Yes. Okay, that took a a turn?

Meanwhile, in another story.

Your face, I I bet were like, Oh.

Yes. What? So he turns out he had left the second wife as well. Well. And a couple of years later came out and married a gentleman. Gentleman. And was talking about what it's like to come out in his his and how we can support this community. It was actually a really fantastic interview. But that was... The moment that I found out that he had come out, it was definitely a a shock, But at the same same.

Time, thank.

Goodness had been 13 and a half years later, because in that moment, it was more a holy crap. What was he going through? What must that have been like for him to face me every day and be telling a lie? I can't imagine. Not in a like, Wow, you jerk way, but how challenging and how painful that must have been for him to have to hide that piece of himself.

I just find your compassion so compelling. There are very few people, I think, who would have that level of compassion. I'm so grateful for folks like you who actually have that compassion and that understanding for others. Even though it's hard for for you you're thinking about what he must have been going through.

Well, what he did was not okay, right? How he lied to me, how he betrayed me, what he did was not okay, but context matters. And it provided some of the the The why he he left, the He's never told me any of that.

And why he could... I don't know. I'm not a doctor. But psychologically, if this is weighing on him and he has a condition that is affected by his stress or his mental health, then it's an interesting case.

Case. That all plays together.

It's very.

Very sad. In regard to Munchausen's and where it manifests or how it manifests, it's obviously different for everyone. But I sometimes have wondered if there was a factor and just his upbringing and how, from what he shared, just how difficult it would be to be in the type of environment that he was in, very Christian situation and knowing from a young age that he was not able to be true to himself and knowing... He shared in videos since that he knew he was gay from a young age, but he hadn't accepted it until adulthood. I don't know how that works because I've never experienced that.

But I I can't But it must be a wild internal struggle.

Absolutely. To know something but not accept accept it. Obviously some significant dissonance that has.

To happen. Sometimes I forget that I'm bi. I was in denial. For me, it wasn't so much that I was wrestling with it every day. I was just like, We don't have to think about that. Then those things come up physically.

Right. That's where I don't know that whole part of his journey and what all that looks like. I have so much empathy for what that must be like that I can't comprehend. I've never struggled or had the challenge my identity. I do wish nothing but the best for him. I hope he can get the help that he needs. He is a good person. He's He's just got lot of stuff that's that's not.

This is so heartbreaking. -tracking.

And that's part of why I really wanted to share my story is because, is he a dogfish? Yeah, in a couple of different ways, but he's not a jerk, and he's not a horrible human. And does it mean that he's perfect? No. He's still daily telling lies to people.

I think we can hold both truths. We can carry that empathy while also recognizing that the behaviors were harmful.

Absolutely. And I don't thinkin his mind, I don't think he thinks he's lying. Even to this day, I don't think he thinks he's lying. And so I think it's important to bring light to just yet another area of of dog that isn't malicious.

Another breed of dogfish.

Yes. It isn't a malicious.

But it's interesting that you acknowledge he wasn't a jerk.

He tried. He was in pain, literally and emotionally.

Emotionally. Lauren. A wild ride.

That's crazy. Yeah. I feel really bad for the life that he has had to live and the things that he has had to go through. I am grateful that he did leave. I know that sounds crazy, but he wasn't who I thought he was, and he wasn't ever going to be, and I don't say this in a rude way, but he would never be the partner that I deserved. Because he couldn't even be.

The person that.

He deserved to be for himself.

That he really was.

I did reach out to him after I found out. I messaged him on Facebook, and I was like, Hey, Hey, David, ex-wife here. I have some questions because I just found out that you're gay. That's new. New. Something new.

Can we talk talk about that, Can we chat?

Chat? And so was in town. We sat down for dinner, and it was mostly- Oh, wow! It was mostly him telling me all of his things that he had experienced and gone through. I never did get to ask him the questions that I had. I never did get to ask him, How can you go in such a public setting and continue to deceive and lie to people and get their money? And like-.

Did he speak to the Bunchhausens at all?

No, he he Did he say anything about that?

He won't talk about that. He'll talk about his health and how he doesn't know why he's still sick, and he doesn't know why he has all these things that are happening to to him. Doesn't know. It's still very much the same denial as before. But even though I didn't get my questions answered and I didn't get that closure, so to speak, it was stillit was still enough to see that he hadn't changed in nearly 14 years. He still hadn't changed. He was still the same person. He still was all about him. It was still all about his health. It was still all about what was going on with him. It was never about, Well, what questions do you have? I can see why you might be confused right now or any of that. It was more one of those moments where to see that he is exactly the same person he was when he left left me, I was not at all the same person that I was when he left me. That was the closure that I think that I needed.

Girl, I meant sister.

That is.

So true. That's where for me, I just need to be able to look at myself in the mirror at the end of the day and be proud of the person I am and the person that I've become. I feel like I have been placed in so many people's lives since this happened to me who have gone through similar similar No one that has a spouse that supposedly has Munchausens that was also gay.

That's pretty specific.

But definitely people going through- Very specific. -marital problems or a failed marriage or just feeling alone or feeling like their whole world was completely just blown into into a pieces and not knowing who to talk to or what to do. This experience has just made me realize that life is really hard. It is really hard. We're not meant to go through it alone and being able to be there by their side and hold their hand. Because I didn't have anyone who had been through something like this before. I was the first one of everybody that I knew.

But now they do. I bet they're so.

Grateful for it, too. Too. And made it worth it. I am so grateful that he left because I never would have. I am the most loyal human on the planet, and I would have never left. I'm grateful that he left because he gave me a second chance at life.

Can we get a little... So it's been a while. Yes. This is 2006, you said? Yeah. 2019, you check in with him. How are you doing?

Who's your new man, girl?

Who's your new man? Yeah, what's going on in your your If you want to share, whatever you're comfortable sharing.

No, there is no current man. No need. I've actually learned that my personality tends to attract men that are dog-fishy. Girl-preach. Yeah. So I've been through a few different things, but for the most part, it really is... I have just focused on me. Good for you. I'm I'm better my life, becoming the best version of myself. And if the right person comes along, then great. I'm still putting myself out there, but I'm not worried about it.

And.

Really just focusing on the relationships in my life that I do have with my family and friends and those that are are ride or dies. And an amazing job that I love. And I feel very supported in my life. And I'm very grateful. I have a very blessed blessed for sure. And I turn 40 40 to March-1st of.

Which is- Oh, my God. Happy birthday. That's what what you going to say about birthdays. Happy early birthday.

Thank you. But yeah, I am doing very well. I love my life. I hope that one day I find a life partner. But if I don't, then I want to enjoy the life that I've built for myself.

Thank you so much for telling your story. I'm just so blown away by like- You're so strong. Yeah. I'm obsessed with with this thing. I need to know so much. Do I have have syndrome? You know what I mean? I need to know all the symptoms. And so when I was on the Google machine, I was looking it up and it.

Said- Are you a a person, person, Are you like somebody that goes and looks at Web and D for a cold and you're like, Oh, I'm dying?

I have brain cancer. It's fine. So this is clues to to syndrome. Having symptoms that do not match test results, having symptoms that get worse for no apparent reason, having very good medical knowledge, receiving few or no hospital visitors. Many people with Munchausen's syndrome have a solitary lifestyle and have little contact with friends or family because they know that you got Munchausen's syndrome, probably. Wow. Interesting.

That's why his family was not around around is because this is just same old, same old. It's another Tuesday.

Wow. That is so sad. Sad. Well, yeah. And unpredictable. I had no idea where this story was was as I'm sure you did not either when you were.

Living it. No, not.

At all.

You've been.

Thrown a crazy hand.

Just the compassion.

I hope that this helps people. I hope if nothing nothing that people can know that give it enough time and enough healing, and you may not see that person the same. You may not feel like they ruined your entire life. You may feel like they actually gave you a second chance at it.

That's a really good point. Oh, my gosh.

Just take some time to get out from under it.

Oh, gosh. What a a breath of fresh you are. Thank you so much for sharing the change.

Thank you, Lauren. Thank you so much. I appreciate you all letting me come on and share my story. Cool.

Well, that was a wild wild ride.

I mean, how's everybody doing?

I wonder who's going, I knew it. I freaking knew it.

We definitely had a lot of people throw Munchausens around in the the theory. Coming out as gay on his radio show part. What?

I was like, like, Who? One saw that. That was wild to me, though. Even to me, I was like, I've seen a lot.

Lot. That's like a.

It was just out of nowhere.

Such a layer, a new layer to the whole story going back and thinking about it from knowing that as well. There is some element absolutely sympathetic to his, youknow, all of the the issues, also what he put everyone through and might continue to put people through is devastating.

As far as we know, since as recently as 2021, we know that this guy is still still doing the the thing. Munchhausenating. There was a go-fund-me. There was a go-fund-me set up to help.

Help. Can you Let's get into it because we obviously had to do some research because all I knew about about was from that Munchausans by proxy story, the Gypsy Rose case that we're.

On a TV show about.

Yeah, that was a crazy story.

Story.

So want to go into what it is and talk about all kinds of stuff about it. So let's.

Do it. But I just want to make it clear for our listeners. Hannah and I are not medical doctors. We do not know. It's not something we studied. This is just some information that we found from reputable sources.

We did talk to a medical professional to get information about it. Also, our information about the case we're talking about in the story, HIPAA is a thing, so we don't have his medical records. But from the story, we know that from his family and obviously her account, he's diagnosed with with So we're going with that. It's also known as factitious disorder. It's a rare type of mental disorder in which a person person fakes illness. Person may lie about symptoms, make themselves appear sick, or make themselves purposefully unwell. There's Munchausen's by proxy, which is the disorder that people might be more familiar with. That's when people try to make someone else sick so that they are the one being a caretaker for them. But this is just Munchausen's where he made himself sick.

Because Munchausen's, it can be confused with some other other We want to talk about those and how they're different.

Classes and session.

First, so first of all, let's talk about about Have you guys seen Ferris Buler, where he pretends to be sick at the beginning of the movie? If you ever called in sick, that's that's You're just saying that you're sick, you're not really sick. You know you're not really really sick, just saying that.

We have all been malingerers.

It's a funny way.

I have at least. Least.

So malingering. We're using it as an excuse to get out of whatever it is. Is. That's malingering. So difference between that and Munchhausen is that, mulling has a very specific goal, just like getting out of school, the army, trying to get money.

Out of people, etc. Maybe getting money. Yeah. That's a lot of cases. You're on a lot of of cases as a PI.

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. So with Munchausen, they're just trying to get something out of being being sick. It's usually something more abstract, like sympathy or or attention, and aren't necessarily fully aware of what they're trying to get out of the situation. They know they aren't sick, but they don't have full control over what they're doing.

Something that made it clear for me is like, so they know they're not sick, but they don't have full control. In anyone who's ever dealt with any mental health disorder, eating disorder, there is an awareness that what you're doing is wrong.

And.

Yet you don't have control. I think looking at it from that perspective makes it a little bit easier to understand how people with with have to operate. It's a disorder. It's a disease, and it's sad. I think it's good to address that there is malignant because a lot of us are like, Oh, my God, I've faked sick. Am I-.

Do I have Munchausen? No. The other disorders are conversion disorders, delusional disorders, somatic symptom disorders. Disorders. So all very different conditions from each other. But in all of those, the patient really believes something is wrong with them and they feel actual symptoms for diseases that they do not have. Crazy, right? I just can't... Munchausen's is... So it's really difficult to diagnose, as you can imagine, because how do you prove this stuff? So the symptoms most often used by people with Munchausen's are like chest pains, abdominal pain, fainting, skin wounds that don't heal, vomiting, weakness. Those are things that are hard to to prove, they could point to a lot of different underlying problems. And when doctors are doing all the tests, they probably won't find anything. So then they start digging until they do.

In this case, you can't tell someone that they did not faint. You can't tell someone that they do not have a headache. These are symptoms that are hard to prove in any capacity. So doctors doctors doing all the tests, try to find something that's wrong. In this case, it's a great example because his symptoms never fit exactly with what the diagnosis was. So if a doctor digs hard enough and you keep saying, I have splitting pain in the back of my head, they're not going to just be like, I don't find anything like that. You know what I mean? They're going.

Going to They're going to find a deviated septum and be like, I guess that's it. There's nothing else wrong. A deviated.

Septum, I guess. They'll try something. Right. But a deviated septum doesn't make your heart stop. They didn't quite match, which is why the psychiatrist raised an eyebrow and suggested... No, No, not I'm sorry why that doctor suggested a a Yes.

He.

Saw red flags. Sometimes if you think about it, people with Munchausans are still human. Human. So do actually really legitimately get sick sometimes. Sometimes. So then... Crying it's like crying wolf. It's like, Are you really sick this time? Or is this thing where you're just... Just... And so I can imagine is another hard thing to deal with with someone with with Munchausen's. And how do you know? It seems so intense. This was a lot of what she went through. I'm so grateful that she shared this story with us because there's probably a lot of people out there going through this and don't even realize it. Dogfish. So I think first, hiding the debt, so the debt thing, that's totally dogfish material. You're lying. That's definitely dogfish. That's That's red like 100 %. That is a complete dogfish, dogfish, red And then he dog fished himself.

He He dog himself. I'm curious how people on a scale of one to dogfish, where would you all place this? Because I think there are absolutely dog-fishy elements, but he also had a disease. But his family also dog-fished her by not telling her- By not telling her. -about his diagnosis. That broke my heart.

That's dog-fish.

So dog-fishy. So we had a dog-fish family. But I'm curious how people would classify this because it's definitely a different type of dog-fish than what we've had.

If you guys have experienced anything like this, and can you share it with us? Because I would love to know more. If you yourself have experience like Munchhausen's and you have something that you would like to add as far as knowledge or education about it, because obviously this is just stuff that we found out through our research. But if you have first-hand experience, we would love to hear from you if you're willing to share that. But it's just so interesting. It's just another type of dogfish. It's so interesting. You can email us your stories. Stories. Don't we have a new new email address, so sure that you are using our new email address. It's the same, but it's different. Just use this new email address. It's It's investigate@thedatingdetection. Com. Com.

Slay. We're on all the socials at at datingdetectives. We have a website, website, the com. I just made an Amazon storefront if you guys want to go shop for fun, safety gadgets, or if you want to start a podcast and see what we're using, or if you want to buy the cute little pink trench coats that we we in our pictures, you should go to our Instagram bio. It's all there.

Yeah. So smart. I thought that would be fun. You guys will have fun there. Thank you guys so much for listening. Share this with someone that you think might be interested in this story or any of the episodes. And just we really appreciate your support. Thank you so much, you guys. As per usual, you you trust your your Bye. Bye.