Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from on our car rental studios. It's the Dave Ramsey Show that is dumb. Cash is king in the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol shows. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Open phones at triple eight to five five two two five.

You know, the easiest thing about doing the show is the answers are always the same. You guys are riding around in your car, you already know what I'm going to say if you've listened to show for six months, you know what I'm going to say when somebody calls in? And why are the answer's always the same. Because they're not based on. Nuanced concepts, they're based on principles. Principle is the law of gravity will cause your butt to hit the sidewalk if you jump off a building, that's a principle.

Well, I sort of got these cool wing things I want to try, yeah, but there's always the law of gravity. There are principles like we don't borrow money, that's a principle, the borrower slave to the lender. We always have a plan. Don't build a tower without first counting the cost. Always live on less than you make because a foolish man devours all he has.

These are principles. Always be outlandishly, outrageously generous because generous people are unbelievably attractive. They're the best people on the planet, and you get to choose to be one today. Ready, set, go. These are principles. Another principle is what Barbara Bush said a thousand years ago, and I've been given credit for it lately, but I wish I had said it. I just stole it from her.

What happens in your house is a whole lot more important than what happens in the White House. If you're waiting on Washington to fix your life, Dave Ramsey adds to that, your stupid. Because Washington can't even fix itself, it's the island of misfit toys and you're waiting on the Democrats to fix your life, you're waiting on the Republicans to fix your life.

The only shot you got to fixing your life is you fixing it. And so when covid hits in the world comes to a freaking screeching halt because we're all going to die from the pandemic, hardly anyone did. Statistically, the survival rate, by the way, for all age groups is north of 99 percent for all age groups, just in case you haven't looked at the CDC site lately.

Doesn't mean you didn't get sick, said survival rate. But we shut the whole world down. And so we needed the government to help us. I'm from the government and I'm here to help is a phrase that should cause you to be terrified. And they came out with a cheap loans. You remember the cheap loans we're going to give businesses these loans because we told these businesses that they had to shut down because the whole world is going to freaking die.

And if you go to a restaurant, you're going to kill your mother.

And so you must die at home. And we shut the whole economy down and everyone's at home sucking their thumb and abject fear and poverty sets in and the government comes riding in on a white horse and says, we're going to give you free money. Oh, wait, it's a loan. But it's not really a loan, it'll be a grant because we're going to forgive it as long as you maintain your payroll. I got death threats from some of you morons because I told no one to take out these loans.

Stay away from it. It's a trap. Don't step up on the door. They're going to pull the lever. Your churches are absolute idiots for taking out a loan from the government as if they're not going to come in and interfere and tell you how to operate and violate your freedom of religion because it's not allowed.

David Sagrera, you're just so naive and you're such a fanatic and you never borrow money. And this is the worst times. These are unprecedented times. We have to pivot, remember, unprecedented and pivot to words that we just wore the crap out in April.

You remember these? I heard them over and over and over and over and over again. I'm down here screaming. All the Ramsey personalities are on all of our media events screaming Do not take out the peep loan from Politico today when the government pledged to give small business billions of dollars in rescue loans during the pandemic, it was all for almost too good to refuse. The loans should be forgiven if employers only maintain payroll in little more than four months. The paycheck protection plan, the B, b, B doled out five hundred and twenty five billion dollars to 5.2 million borrowers.

Lenders that helped the government deliver the money are warning that the effort is running into new delays.

Well, there you go. Here's this one. Check this out. The banks say the processes for converting the government back loans into grants has been frustrating and has not happened at all.

A lack of communication from the Small Business Administration. Now, I'm shocked. And the Treasury Department. You mean government doesn't communicate which have run, which have run the effort since Congress created it in March? Banks which have loaned their own money with the expectation that it would be repaid by the government, have been submitting applications for loan forgiveness to the SBA since August the tenth. But the lenders say the agency has been silent on whether any of the applications will be accepted to date.

The SBA said Thursday it has received 96000 forgiveness applications, representing fewer than two percent of the total loans, but has not approved one. Not one lone. Has been forgiven out of ninety six thousand applications, and that's only two percent of them. No bank I know anywhere in the country has received any money from the SBA, said Brad Bolton, president and CEO of Community Spirit Bank in Alabama. The warnings from lenders are raising new doubts about the implementation of the small business rescue effort.

Well, no crap which was seen by many as a success, not by me. Its authority to issue new loans expired on August eight. Thank you, Jesus. And there is a broad, broad bipartisan support to relaunch the program. If lawmakers can strike a deal on economic relief, you've got to be kidding.

You idiots are going to do it again. The confusion is creating potential headwinds for small businesses as they struggle to emerge from a recession and their loans that were supposed to be forgiven have not been adding to the frustration is a growing list of unresolved questions from banks about how to handle the forgiveness applications.

Banks say they've gotten conflicting information from various SBA officials. The SBA people, if you don't know, is the DMV of the federal government for small business.

Completely freaking incompetent, cannot find their butt with both hands, and they've been given this task to run this thing and they cannot do it. They don't have the capacity intellectually, they don't have the capacity, process. And systems wise, they're complete freakin nincompoops.

And you got five hundred and twenty five billion dollars laying on their desk, that's going to go from not being forgiven to being a loan with your local bank.

They pretty much been radio silent over the last few weeks, said the Consumer Bankers Association general counsel. There's still plenty of technical issues banks have as we push the SBA to offer some guidance. They can't find their way to work. Don't look for guidance from them. The situation echoes problems that plagued the program at its start, when the Trump administration rushed to launch the lending vehicle but left banks and businesses in the dark about key details.

There's this ridiculous entitlement B.S. that our culture has developed that says when we're in a crisis, the government has to rush in and fix our lives. And everyone was yelling, fix our lives, fix our lives. So we threw money at it and no guidelines and no systems and no processes. And the loans aren't going to be forgiven because of incompetence. And I'm going to sit here and say, I'm sorry, I told you so. I told you not to take the money, I told you over and over not to take the money, two of you threatened to burn my house down, but I told you not to take the money.

It's a principle. The government is not here to help you. They're a parasite. You're a tick on your butt. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, business owners and anyone who has to talk with customers often listen up, you are the backbone of this freaking economy. And just by staying open to serve your community, you're providing hope to your customers. That's why my friends at podium want to do something special for you. They're offering you the opportunity to text your customer base for free.

So sign up at Podium Dotcom now and join our crusade to communicate, connect and spread hope. That's podium dot com. Thank you for joining us. America, this is the Dave Ramsey Show, common sense for your dollars and cents. Dylan is up next. Dylan is in Little Rock, Arkansas. I don't. Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show.

Hey, thanks for all your wise counsel. Thank you. My question today is I've been saving up for something, probably a vehicle looking at the vehicle in the next year or two. I don't know if I should pay cash for it or finance it. And here's why I ask that question. Of course, I've got the savings and mutual funds and banks getting about eight percent. And and it kind of would give me kind of make me sick, take that money out, pay cash for a vehicle and lose that interest.

Mm hmm. OK. Then you want the interest more than you want a car. I yeah, yeah, I guess so, yeah, so here's the thing. I think you're a fairly new listener or an infrequent listener or something, but the. What I discovered years ago when I went broke and had the opportunity to start over because I was stupid. Was that I don't couldn't find any rich people to talk to, they could tell me that they got rich leaving money in a mutual fund and borrowing money on a car.

I only found middle class people that did that. When I talk to old rich people, what they said was we never had any payments and so we always had money. And then now, years later, and bazillion airline miles later, lots of research projects and bestselling books later after that, 30 years after 32 years after going broke, I'm not broke anymore. And I quit borrowing money back then.

Thirty two years ago, I stopped I don't borrow money for any reason. Ever for anything. And so what that has always meant is, is that if I made an income, I always had some money. It was never handed to someone else. Now, we did a large study about three years ago, we began the process and it culminated in Chris Hogan doing a book called Everyday Millionaires. And the study was we did a study of 10000 167 millionaires.

That's the largest study of millionaires ever done in North America.

Not one. That we interviewed said that they became a millionaire. By leaving their money in an investment and taking out a car payment. 83 percent of them said they had not had a car payment in 25 years. And so the conclusion is, is that they became millionaires because they stayed out of debt, not they stayed out of debt when they became a millionaire.

It's not it didn't happen that way. It was the other way around. And so the causal causal indication of the research is that debt avoidance keeps cash flying off of your income. Instead of flying to the bank, it flows into your account.

And there's something emotional that happens for all of us, me included, not teach this stuff for a living. You're a kind of a numbers guy. You're a numbers cruncher. And I am, too. And but something emotionally happens when I actually lay a stack of one hundred dollar bills in the middle of the table at the car dealership.

I have this moment like an oh crap moment emotionally.

And so it makes me realize I'm buying something. Where if I just sign a piece of paper and the communication I drive off emotionally, it doesn't register in my brain that I actually just went 35000 in debt, just did that.

Yeah, yeah. And there's all kinds of studies that back that up, by the way.

But you and I have had that experience because we're numbers guys. We tend to look at going, oh, I can make eight percent or 10 percent on my mutual fund and I could probably get a one or two percent, maybe even a zero percent car loan. And I can make that spread. And why wouldn't it make that spread? And that's a on the surface it sounds right. But then when you have that moment and you go, I don't have any payments.

And the pandemic hit. I don't have any payments. Oh, no, no, I understand, you know, I'm sorry, I just love the I love the advice. There's a difference. And here's there is a middle class and rich people and and who do you want to be? And I love that it's looking to the future. And that millionaire study. I'll give you a copy of that book.

Enjoy it. It's called Everyday Millionaires. I send it to you, Kelly, pick up. Thanks for calling in, brother. I appreciate it. Yeah. What was the old quote? It was. Rich people ask how much poor people ask, how much down, how much a month? You know, and Ziglar used to say another one always, like you said, poor people have big TVs, rich people have big libraries. You know, it's that kind of not obviously it's not always true, rich people got big TVs, too, OK?

I mean, because they can afford a big TV. But the point is, you know, what gets you there is the point of these little sayings that we throw around these little narratives. We just pitch out there. But they're good, quotable quotes. You know, what is the shortest distance between where you are and where you want to be with money? Wealthy. And if the shortest distance involves immorality or hurting someone, you wouldn't take that last line.

But oddly enough, it's very seldom that is the shortest distance, the shortest distance between where you are and wealthy is debt free. Build an emergency fund, walk the baby steps that we teach. So thank you for calling in, brother. I appreciate your open phones at eight eight two five five two two five.

You hear me say everyone needs a will, but I get a lot of questions asking if a simple online will is right for someone's specific situation. With your questions in mind, our team decided to build a little quiz, the quiz gives you custom results based on if you're married or single, where you live and even the size of your state, it helps you understand exactly what you need for your specific situation. Take the quiz to find out what you need to protect your family and your wishes.

Text the word quiz to three seven eight nine. That's quiz to thirty three seven, eight, nine. And we'll text you back a promo code for 20 percent off your will just for taking the quiz.

That's quiz to 33 seven eight nine. Youngstown, Ohio.

Michael is calling.

Hey, Michael, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, how are you? Better than I deserve, what's up? I'm pulling I'm on baby step number two and I'm calling to see if it changes anything based on the fact that my car loan is zero percent interest. No. OK, you list your debts smallest to largest, regardless of the interest rate, is the debt snowball pay minimum payments on everything but the little one and attack the little one.

Is not an interest rate problem. You're going to pay off all your debts very, very quickly. And interest is really not going to factor into it for that reason. Very much. How much debt have you got total? Ninety eight thousand, including my home. OK, how much of that your home? I'm 68000. OK, so if 30000 and baby step to how much of that is car? Pretty much all of it. Eight hundred dollars on a credit card, I can pay that off.

What's your household income? I make around 50, 60 thousand a year, depending on overtime and bonuses. And Thousand Dollar Cadet. Yes, oh, well, probably you saw the car, actually, when you own things with wheels and motors that total up to being more than half your annual income, it's very, very difficult to prosper financially because 30000 cars turn into eight thousand dollar cars in about an eyeblink. And when you lose that much money making 60 grand, it's tough to recover.

So you probably have a car you can't afford.

Is your income going up pretty steadily and fast and you're going to pay this car really, really fast within the next within the next two years, I'll be making over one hundred thousand dollars. OK, then maybe we keep it, but you're going to have to lean into it and knock it out.

I want it gone. And let's see the ought to be gone in here.

You need to be debt free in a year, 2500 bucks a month, 2500 a month. Beans and rice, rice and beans. Chop the card up, get rid of the car. And so if you're going to keep it, you need to pay it off real fast. And the only reason I'm saying you could keep it is because you're going to be making 100 and driving thirty thousand. Our car paid for make 100. OK. Thirty thousand dollar car making 57000.

Really not so smart. And so you get you know, it's just a matter of can you afford to take the hit, the depreciation, the sound of money when you go across the curb into the street from having bought a new car cutting, it just went down in value. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. People all over the country are discovering a faith based and budget friendly way of meeting health care costs through Christian healthcare ministries, Christian health care ministries, or CHF, is a nonprofit organization that helps members carry one another's burdens with health care expenses.

And they have successfully shared each other's medical bills for nearly 40 years. CFC H is right for you by visiting S.H. Ministries. Doug c h. M is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage, Derek and Ashley are with us. Hey, guys, how are you?

Good, good. How are you? Welcome. Welcome. Where do you guys live? We live in West Branch, Michigan. West Branch, Michigan. What's that?

They're not a whole lot. OK, I'm going with that. I'm trying to get an idea where in the same boat.

Middle middle of the lower peninsula. OK, cool. Well, welcome. It's so good to have you guys all the way to Nashville and here to do it.

That bridge. Great, baby. How much have you paid off? We've paid off one hundred and forty eight thousand dollars. Wow. How long did this take? Nine months.

Wow. And your range of income during that time?

80 to 100000. OK, cool. So what kind of debt was the 148? It was a camper loan.

Student loans for both of us and our house.

Oh, your house. OK, what did you sell? Well, that's kind of part of the story. OK, tell us the story. What happened?

Well, we started on our baby steps and we started in August.

Yeah. And it took us eight months to pay off thirty five thousand dollars, which was everything except for the house. And then at that time we had a house fire. Oh no.

In March and not the way we want to get out of that.

No, no, no.

So we were done with baby up two and then back fire. It happened and then we decided that we are just going to pay off the house, too, instead of buying stuff, because before we never would have probably paid off the house.

If we weren't already in the baby steps, you probably would have bought a car, you know, done something stupid with the money. Mm hmm. Instead, we just decided, well, we'll pay it off and be done.

OK, so I'm a little bit confused.

So the house didn't burn down. Yeah. Burned down completely. Yeah. We lost everything OK. Oh my gosh.

And so you got this big check. Yeah. And paid off the mortgage. And now where are you living?

Well we actually we still had enough money to build a house and it's almost done. And so for cash. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. And we were living in a camper for the last four or five months during covid. OK, all that. The covid camper.

Yeah. Yeah. I love it. It's got a name for life. Yeah. I don't want to be in it ever again. She thinks we're done camping. I think we're selling the camper. Yeah. The house has done this property go. Yeah. OK, so but to start with you paid it off that first 35000 and then a house fire took your home and your home was how much you owed on it. One hundred and thirteen thousand.

And what what did what was it valued at.

What was the check you got. Well, so you get we got money for the house and money for a contest. So we took our contents money and paid off the house.

So we just decided we'd rather have a free no mortgage and not have stuff. Huh. We figure we can pay, we can get our stuff back with, you know, not having each floor with no pants.

Yeah. Yeah. And you're in the camper anyway, right? Yeah. So you got time while you're building to do that.

So the difference, though, allowed you to pay cash for the bill.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Very cool. Very cool. It's a different way of thinking.

Yeah. Yeah. We never would have thought that way if we weren't in the steps already, you know.

And what was kind of crazy the whole time that we were paying off each student loan, I had little links that I made, you know, the.

Yeah. Whatever construction paper link.

Yeah. And every time I paid, you know, made the payment for the loan, I'd throw it in the fire.

Mhm. Oh yeah. We had boom boom boom. Yeah.

And then as soon as we were done with that then the whole house kind of like not because of that but there's a lot of like a lot of like they had.

So what happened with the house fire was undetermined. Yes. Undetermined. Oh my gosh. Yeah. But everybody was safe. Yeah. And it just breaks your heart just just stuff your memory stuff as well. Yeah. That's what tears your heart out. Yeah. All the pictures and that kind of stuff alone or. Yeah.

Oh everything that was on the walls. Yeah. Everything.

Oh I'm so sorry, so sorry you went through that. I'm glad you had a different way of looking at things when you're going through a horrible thing. Right. That's what it amounts to is the principles need to work in great times and they need to work at horrible times.

Yeah. We decided to turn a tragedy into a blessing. Yeah. Yeah. And your decisions do that. They do. Wow. Wow. You guys, that's amazing. So when's the house going to be ready.

It should be done real soon. It should be completely finished. We're just got like some trim and a little bit of railing to do and it'll be done. Okay.

So you'll be in by Halloween. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Good for it. Gets cold. Yeah. We get super cold in that trailer. Yeah. You don't wanna be in Michigan. No, thank you. Thank you. No, thank you. No, thank you. Well done, you guys. So you made some weird, wild, wacky decisions starting in August.

Yeah, you cut to the bone and then when this crazy fire happens now you got really weird move into the camper.

You had to have people thought you needed counseling. You had friends or family making fun of you for real. Oh, yeah.

Well, they were supportive. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Awesome community. You're sweet.

They were some of them were supportive. Some of them get some them gave you a hard time.

You know that it's okay that you didn't care. You know, it wasn't about them. Now you no longer when your house burns down, you don't care what other people think. No, you just got to you got to deal with all those emotions. Your heart's in your throat and your wallets on fire and everything else. And you got to figure this out and you don't care what other people think. So you did you just did what's good for us.

And if you guys don't get it, to heck with you, you know. So well done, y'all. I'm so proud of you.

OK, who was your biggest cheerleader then saying way to go. I love your wackiness. I guess through the whole thing we've talked we only told a few people, you know, throughout the whole time, but I guess we were mostly our biggest supporters.

But, you know, our family has instilled in us hard work and, you know, they're they're part of it. And yeah.

And my friend Lisa and I got her on board and they're on the baby. Step two almost done. Well, congratulations.

You guys are very proud of you. So when you move into this new house in the next week or two. You have a payment in the works. Mm hmm. And all of this crap is behind you. How's that going to feel?

I feel great. Yeah, yeah, I feel great.

Yeah. Like you paid a price to win and then you win. Yeah. And how old are you to 29 now. And you have a paid for house, not the prescribed way to get there.

No, we will take it. Not the way we were expecting it.

Yeah exactly. Yeah. Cool.

So did you bring the little ones with you. Yeah. We have Jackson with us. All right. Jackson is how old? He's three. All right. Been practicing is debt free scream.

Yes, yes, yes. Ready to go from Michigan. Here we go. All right, Derrick, actually in Jackson, heading West Branch, Michigan. One hundred and forty eight thousand paid off in nine months. What a story. Make an 80 to 100 countdown. Let's say you're a debt free scream, Jackson. Count it down three to one where free.

Great job, you guys. Great job, man, oh, man, what a story. Wow, that takes your breath away. Here's the thing that's I started this hour with that principles, when your principles in place, you can make decisions in good times and bad times, and it's the exact same decision. If you wait until there's a victory or you wait until there's a crisis to decide who you are, then you'll never know who you are and you'll always make bad decisions.

Know what your value system is? Know what it is you value, know what it is you target. Know what we as a family. This is what we're going to do. I taught our kids growing up I would say things all the time, like Ramsey. Just don't do that, Ramsey. Don't do that. Ramses, don't do that now, you know, I just made that up, by the way, because lots of Ramses did that right.

But I just said, no, we don't do that.

As for me and my house, we don't do that. This is what we do. This is what we do. Don't act that way. You don't lay down in the middle of the restaurant floor and throw a dad blame fit and expect anything except having your little butt tied up, because I'm getting ready to light you up. Don't do that. The inmates don't run the asylum. I'm an old school dad, I'm even an old school paper, Dave.

I love my inmates. I love the grandbabies, but they don't run the asylum. Ramses, don't do that, decide what you is, they already decided what the is and then they get the house fire. Wow, pretty cool. So sorry they went through that. But what a wonderful result. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Thanks for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. How many of you guys are interested in retiring with dignity?

How many of you are stressed out or hurting because you think your retirement savings took a major hit this year or because it actually did take a major hit this year because of the way you had it invested or handled it when covid hit?

Maybe you are super close to retiring. Maybe you're wondering if you can maybe you pulled everything out at exactly the wrong time. Maybe you left it in because you could afford to ride the roller coaster and then you didn't get hurt. You actually made money. Folks, if you're in any one of these situations, that just means you're investing. If you're investing, you're going to have these processes, and I want you to know you don't have to face pain or opportunity alone.

Now, more than ever, it's time to seek out the advice, the advice of an investment professional like one of our smart investor pros. Smart venture pros don't work for us. They're independent.

Investment people that teach and live their investment advice the way we do, and so you get advice consistent with. What we teach here and with the heart of a teacher. So 20/20 does not have to have to kill you or kill your confidence or anything else, go to Dave Ramsey, Dotcom Smart Vester. Dave Ramsey, dot com slash smart vester. Mitchell is in Indianapolis. Hi, Mitchell. Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up? Good.

First, congrats to space winner of the battle, the band. That's awesome. First off. Wow, look at you a second. I do have a question regarding my house on whether or not I should sell it for something less expensive. So I'm single with no kids on baby steps, six, 30 years old, and I make around 90 K a year and 15 year fixed mortgage with a monthly payment of about sixteen hundred. So it's around the thirty two percent range, which I know is higher than your recommendation.

I love this part of the city I'm in, but it definitely is more expensive than other areas. So I kinda just want your commute or your suggestion on what you would do. What's your income going to do in the next three to five years? I mean, I really like my job, so I think I'll probably stay there, but it's probably a raise of two to three percent a year, given no pandemic.

Mm hmm. OK. All right. Well, you're single. You don't have any bills except this except this one. And if you like the house, I'd probably stay there, OK? I don't think it's worth the trouble to move at this stage of the game. Like you said, it's not what I would have signed you up for. But turning around and undoing it would involve saying that this house is absolutely going to keep you from winning financially.

And I don't think that's the case. I think you've recognized that you've got a little more going out on house than you should, but it's not going to kill you. Seven percent. You got no other bills. You're single. You make ninety. You know, you're obviously very responsible otherwise. And I unless you just have another reason to move, if you do make a move, keep it within the guidelines. But I wouldn't move just to do that, if that's the singular reason for the move.

Thanks for the call. So what he was referring to, if you didn't know, I think it was just how many years have we been doing Battle of the Bands?

11, OK, 11th annual Battle of the Bands were in Nashville, which the way you get the next country music stars attention in Nashville, as you say, wider. In other words, everybody in this town sings or get fiddles except me. Right? I'm the only one that doesn't. I'm in talk radio for a reason. I have zero talent on those kinds of issues. But everybody's a singer around here. They're all cool. We have former American Idols on our team and all this kind of stuff.

And so all these brilliant musicians and some of them are like developers. Some of them are producers on this radio show, that kind of thing. They're really, really, really good musicians. So we started this thing just for the fun of it. And it kind of grew out, not kind of it did grow out of control.

And for a while there, it went on for like days. You know, internal bans inside the company, if you worked here, you could put together a band. It was a contest and we like at lunch we'd have everybody go into the conference center and two bands would, you know, compete and then the winner would advance on and then the next week at lunch and it would go on for like half the summer. So we finally put it all in one night and then one day and we got this big ampitheater outside of our building out here.

And Friday night was absolutely a gorgeous fall night in the state of Tennessee. And we had our eleventh annual Battle of the Bands and they all named their bands something funny that has happened internally, making fun of some crisis that we have faced this year.

So there were a lot of covid named bands, you know, dumpster fires and all these kinds of things. And so making fun of different things that we're all pissed about around here. And so we party and have a blast. And one of the names of the band was Space Kitten, and they were the winner this year. And so. At that. And they went pretty serious money were we spend way too much money on this, but it's a big it's big fund and it's the second biggest event that we do inside of our company every year.

The biggest event is our legendary Christmas parties, which are just nuts and over the top and love being unbelievably generous, especially at Christmas. And so these are two of the reasons that Ramsey wins best place to work every year and last year won best place in the United States, according to magazine. That's a place to work for a company our size in the U.S. So but Battle of the Bands was a blast. It was serious fun and it was all great.

Life was good. And so it was a lot of fun. Everybody did a great job and just really, really, really, really enjoyable. All right.

Question from a YouTube are Andreas says business boutique asked a fellow church member doesn't pay her bill for services rendered from my small business. How should I handle this biblically? Well, scripture says if you have a problem with someone, sit down with them. And confront them. And if that doesn't work, take a witness and sit down with them and confront them, and if that doesn't work, sit down with the pastor. And confront them now that would, for me, in your situation, revolve involve if there was a good song, goodly sum of money, and that is not been paid.

But this person owes you 10000 dollars and hasn't paid you. Now, the way you phrase this, a fellow church member doesn't pay her bill for services rendered from my small business. It sounds like it's an ongoing thing. So the second time they don't pay their bill to you, it's your fault. Because you extended services to someone who was a known as a known offender. And doesn't matter if they go to church or not, they don't pay their bill.

And so you can say, you know, to your friend or whoever this is or this church members say, you know, as a fellow Christian, it's a bit offensive to me that you don't pay your bill. But I understand there could be stuff going on in your life. But since you don't pay your bills, what we're going to do is the only way we're going to be able to render services to use cash in advance. Which is what we would do with anyone who didn't pay their bill.

We don't extend credit to people who don't pay bills. And so we don't extend credit around here anyway, so you just you want something, you just have to pay for it and we give it to, you know, that's all it is. We like to send you a book and hope you pay, you pay, and then we send you a book. I mean, that's how this works. So but.

You know, the thing is, it's just so distressing and sometimes in the Christian world, we. Automatically assume or assign competence to someone because they're at the church. This person might just be incompetent with their money. Maybe you could suggest a total money makeover book or get into Ramsey plus membership and might help them learn how to handle money, God's ways, and it might be that they're not lacking in character.

They might be lacking in organization. And you could help him with that, but.

You know, either way, just be kind, but don't the problem, Andrea, is that when you expect someone, just because they sit inside of a church to be perfect and you're always going to be disappointed because imperfect people are in church and that's where they need to be, all the perfect people don't have to go, which is none of you, by the way, we imperfect people, we need to be in church.

So just don't extend credit to them any further. If you want to confront them, that's fine. But that's how you handle it. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, guys, this is Kelly, associate producer of the Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know over 16 million people listen to the Dave Ramsey Show every week. And a lot of those people listen to one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you.

Head to Dave Ramsey, dot com slash. If you're looking for fun and practical ways to save money in your everyday life, you need to check out The Rachel Cruise Show, a podcast from money expert and my daughter, Rachel Cruze. Hey, guys, it's Rachel Cruz. And I'm so excited to tell you about my podcast. A lot of people are living paycheck to paycheck. They're in debt. They don't even know where to begin. But they have this need this want to get in control of their money.

And if that's you, you have come to the right spot. So in each episode, you get a ton of inspiration and practical advice. If not, subscribe to the Rachel Cruz show podcast. Make sure you do it today.

Hear more from the Ramsey network, including the Rachel Cruz show wherever you listen to podcasts.

Hey, it's James, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. This episode is over, but check the episode notes for links to products and services you've heard about during this episode. Thanks for listening.