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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollars Car Rental Studios. It's The Dave Ramsey Show. Work that is done. Cash is king in the paid off, the mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. My co-host today on the Remzi personality number one, best selling author Chris Hogan, open phones for Christiani to talk to you about your life and your money. Triple eight eight two five five two two five.


Mac is in Ontario, Canada, kicking off the hour.


Hey, Mac, how are you today? How are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can we help? That's great. Great to hear. Thanks for taking my call. I am fairly new in the mobile crane industry. I'm a first year planner and I have about 12000 in consumer debt. I saved up about 4000 in my savings account and the rest is just liquid right now. I have an infrequency of work, I work three to four days a week, but I.


Something works out. And so I think that this company for about three months now, and I don't know whether or not to just start dumping on debt or to keep a bit more of a of security per say for the week or two, you know, cranes don't go out. Right. So I just wonder what your thought on that is and whether or not they should just attack aggressively or be a little more conservative and have a bit more in savings.


Well, there's two ways to do it. What have you been able to make your bills the entire three months without? I mean, even if you had to scrape? Absolutely. What do you think the probability is that that doesn't continue? Well, this is going to be my first winter going in. I mean, I know it's middle of August right now, but I know it slows down dramatically in October and, you know, up until about January and February, for the time for the next foreseeable few months, I don't see a problem making bills and paying off debt.


But it's more or less like you said it before to other people that they get protective of. You know, they get a bit anxious tapping into that money that they've saved up. Right.


And so the two things we do is one is you can just stop, stop your debt snowball, stop your baby steps and just pile up cash because you're unstable. The second thing we do sometimes we don't modify the baby steps or modify the emergency funds. But one thing we have done where someone's got a volatile income and it's not just a vague worry, it's a it's a mathematical volatility that's measurable, then you would set what we call a hill and valley account as a separate account.


So you have a thousand dollars for baby step one. You have a hill and valley account to cover the valley months when you're on the hill.


And Chris, we've done that calculation a bunch of times.


Yeah, we have. Let me ask you, my friend, when you said things will slow down in October, well, then they're going to get dark, right, in November, December, January and February. What are you going to do during that period?


Well, that's the other thing. I work for a union so I can go back on the way to work and work temporarily for another company or I have had previous employment. I can run flowers down to the states so long as cold. It doesn't go crazy. OK, so yeah, I have other ways of supplementing, but it's I'm new in the industry. When being a first year proneness, you don't have as much experience, so they tend to send out more experienced and senior apprentices.


Right. So I'm kind of third on on my company. Right. And I've been keeping busy, but I'm just, like I said, just trying to determine whether or not I can prepare for slow and keep kind of what I have right now and build up more and pay off.


I'm going to agree with Dave. Yeah, I think that Hill and Valley account is exactly what you're going to need to do and you're going to have to safeguard this money, my friend. I mean, cutting down expenses severely. And once you get stable in your income, then you can start to attack it. So, you know, you're going to need a longer range plan. Hopefully this apprenticeship is going to, you know, give you some relief.


I like that you're thinking ahead and you've got plans. But, Dave, it's going to be hard. You can't get traction.


It's almost like reverse Christmas. I mean, you need to get ready. Christmas is coming up. You have a problem coming. Yes, you have a problem coming up. Christmas is not a problem. But but you have this you haven't cash need coming in the winter and you need to prepare for that. But let's not have this vague sense of I get security from savings.


Let's say I have a specific target that I've got to prepare for a down time. And so I'm going to build some money for that. And I would call that the Hill and Valley account and then leave your one thousand dollars alone and the rest of the money once you've got enough to cover your down time in your Hill Valley. And that doesn't need to be twenty five thousand dollars here. OK, that's a you know, you just get enough in there to make it through the winter if you don't have a good income and that's your Hill Valley account and then you go back and start work on your baby, step two.


But I think Toronto, three or four things at once is what gets people confused.


And Dave, we talk people during this situation, this whole corporate thing, that if your hours had been cut, your hours had been reduced, that it's OK to save. But once they stabilized, then you wake back up and unpause the baby steps. Yeah, you're pausing, though, right?


And I'm not even saying he paused temporarily build that hill valley and then play again.


But, you know, the point is that you don't want to get in a situation where you go, I'm going to give myself an excuse to over 25000 emergency. So I've got twelve thousand hours worth of debt.


That's not that's that's that's emotional just because I want to feel better.


Yeah, that's emotional. And that's not that's not the best route. But if you've got an unstable income, then you've got to get through that to be able to work the baby steps. That's what it comes down to. Amanda is with us. Amanda is in Providence, Rhode Island. Hi, Amanda. How are you? Heidi, thanks so much for taking my call. So my question, and really I'm kind of just looking for some reassurance is how I deal with the guilt of going from full time to part time after building our entire goals and dreams and plans around me working full time.


So just to give you some background, we just became debt free, paid off around a hundred thousand dollars. I was working full time the whole time and really struggling because I have a very successful career. And then after going through that for about six months, my husband and I decided to go part time. He totally understood. But I can't stop feeling really guilty because that's resulting in us losing about 60 to 70 thousand dollars of income. And we do we do get a lot.


We plan to continue to and we have family that rely on us. And, you know, we still make good money with me working part time.


But what's your household income with you working part time? 180. Good Lord, that's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, Amanda, where's the guilt coming from?


Oh, yes, because we were we were closer to like 48 to 40 or so at one time. And the plan was to pay off the house in like a couple of years.


I think you can do that at 180. Yes. You're going to get you're going to hit your goals.


You're just gonna hit them a little bit slower and you're actually going to be able to breathe. And so what if you don't hit your brother in law who won't get a job?


Give me a break. You know, you're you're supposed to work.


Well, she said she's and family.


Oh, OK. I didn't make that up real quick. Got real quick.


You had zero to 10. Well, I mean, yeah, maybe there's no reason for you to feel guilty. You're making 180000 of our household income every year. You're doing all right. You're all right. Life's good. I don't know how to tell you to fix that, but there's no reason for you to fix the reason. Just let it go. Let it go. Like frozen like baloney. If you struggled during a normal year to pay for that time share, how big of a burden is it now?


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Chris Hogan is my co-host today here on The Dave Ramsey Show, I'm your host, Dave Ramsey. So, Chris, we need Dr. John Baloney here to deal with feeling guilty about not working full time when you make one hundred ninety thousand, because you and I just didn't have any feelings on that. We were just not we were not touchy feely how we work, Dave. They weren't helpful at all. It's not our strong suit. We were not helped now.


But we're going to do the Bob Newhart counseling video.


You remember that one when he used to say, listen to the whole thing. He'd say, stop it, just stop it. There's just no counseling. That'll be one hundred. Stop it. How do you stop feeling? Guilty. Stop it. I don't know. I don't know how you stop.


I mean, we need to learn how to help him. We need to help us. We also need to help her. He does it. We'll do better moving forward in this show. We're going to do better.


We're going to work for that part when you're laid, because we won't either. Neither one of us are good at this. We're not good at saying, you know, I don't feel guilty when I just stop doing something.


I just stop. You know, I don't. But it's time I have my emotions than Hogan's got a lot better on the show.


We're talking about emotional organs opening up on the show. You really I used to have just three days. How many how many emotions do you have now? Well, I used to have three. It was happy, mad and about to be mad.


That's all I have now. I've got eight. I've got eight. You're growing. I am growing before our very eyes, see. And I'm talking about your emotions. Wait a minute. All right. Come on, take a call. I'm not talking to you anymore. Let's get a caller on the line.


All right. Let's try. Kayla is with us in Colorado Springs. Caleb, how are you?


Oh, hello, Dave. Look, very big fans. I've read most of your books. I'm actually working on Everyday Millionaire right now on Audible.


So very cool. Thank you.


So here's my question. I'm active duty military in Colorado Springs area. I have ten years left of active duty service. I'm married with three monsters of the human species. Me, my wife just completed Baby Step two and we're working on baby steps three and then on to baby steps three B, which is saving for a house, the local market and the crazy stuff that's going on. A single family home that fits the needs even in on the lower side is from three hundred three hundred fifty K, which is way past what I want to buy, like finance for a house.


I will most likely be stationed in the area for the remainder of my career, at least the Colorado area. Do you think it's wiser to hold off and baby step four and five, investing and saving for kids college and just pile up cash to pay outright cash for a house down the road, or just save up for the next three or four years and then put 20 percent down on the house?


Either one's going to be OK three or four years. I'll tell you a lot about your plan. So you got to do that either way, right? Yes, sir. So I just go about the business of saving and then make your decision when you get at the money built up, you can tell what the market's doing and how your career stabilised by then.


Yeah. And, Caleb, thank you very much for your service, but you're one of the rare military people that I've talked to that said you're most likely to be stationed there for the next 10. What gives you that opinion? So I'm actually transitioning from the Air Force to the Space Force and space forces, predominantly in the Colorado area. Gotcha, OK. I'm currently stationed at Peterson Air Force Base that bases all around here that a lot of the space for stay.


So when you move a base, it's literally moving, you know, 10 miles down the road versus on the other side of the country. OK.


OK, gotcha. That's cool. OK, good for you, man. That's quite, quite an adventure you're on. And again, thank you for your service. Yes, I would purchase a home and you can decide which way you want to do it once you've got the first step done and that saving the emergency fund your debt free and have your down payment saved at that point, you can analyze the market and see what's happening then because Colorado Springs markets a wonderful market for real estate.


It's not it's not crazy high. Denver has gotten crazy high, but Colorado Springs has gone up a lot. But it's not unreachable. And I don't think it's going to become unreachable.


No, but but, Dave, we get a lot of military men and women listening to the show. And just want to clarify, if you're going to be stationed and moved around you, it's not time to buy a home. The last thing you want to do is be a long distance landlord with all the headaches and potential issues. So you would wait to be able to buy a home once you were done with your service or you were going to be stationed somewhere for a longer extended period of time?


Yeah, absolutely. Well, very cool. Very cool. Hey, thank you, man. We appreciate you joining us.


Hey, have you ever done the long distance landlord thing?


I bought a house in Cincinnati when I was flipping houses before I went broke that I intended to flip and I couldn't get it sold. So I ended up putting a tenant in it and it was a nightmare. But I have worked with so many people who did do long distance landlords that it there's just it's at at best it's inefficient.


At worst, it's a nightmare because you're not you don't have your eyes on your property. And all the property that I own is within a 45 minute drive, a 40 minute drive of my current home. And I can get in a car on a Sunday and drive around and, you know, in a few hours I can at least see the exterior of all of them. And certainly the you know, my team that manages the property can do physical inspections quarterly without having to get on an airplane to do it.


So, you know, but when you have long you got a beach property and this long distance landlord and you've got a resort company that's managing it, sometimes they do a good job. They take half of the rent to start with in those situations. And so sometimes they don't do a good job. Sometimes they overcharge for everything. And you get down there and the tenants of, you know, mess something up. And nobody was watching it because it's not yours.


You know, nobody watches it like you watch it.


Ramona is with us. Ramona is in Olympia, Washington. Hi, Ramona. How are you? I'm OK. Thanks for taking my phone call. I'm so nervous. No troubles, we've never lost a patient. How can we help? So I was wondering, do I pause baby steps to to get a lawyer to try and fight custody for my son? Long story short, I called in a few weeks ago, talk to Anthony O'Neal. And he gave he pretty much talked about how can I get married if you're not married?


So, you know, separate all the finances and separate everything between me and my boyfriend. And I've done that. And while doing that, I have found out that he blindsided me and he decided to get a lawyer to get custody, to try and get custody of our son. And I just I don't know what to do. And I'm just scared. Yeah, stop everything and get a lawyer. OK. Absolutely Bybee's more important than your work and your baby steps, besides that, this guy's a bully and as soon as you punch him back, he'll be gone.


You know, it's been then he's got he's got your buffalo, but he ain't got me buffaloed. Right. You know, Anthony warned me it could get legally ugly quickly, and I've found that to be very true.


So you're not married. You had the kid with him and he's trying to get the kid is OK to tell me. Right, yeah, yeah. OK, yeah, and listen, Ramona, you need to shift your mindset, OK? This went from love to battle and don't shift back into love. OK, don't, because that's he's going to attempt to to play on your emotions, he's going to try to say, oh, honey, you know, we can do you need to be real clear because the clock starts ticking when you hire an attorney.


This is real money that you're going to be spending, OK? Yeah, and so you got you got to get your heart ready and you need to close the door so people can't push buttons if you remove the buttons.


And here's the thing you're looking for. You're looking for an attorney that is so mean that you're not sure you even like them. Because you need to turn loose a Doberman on his throat. This is not a this is not Pat. This is not patty cake. He's coming after your baby. Yeah. And if you're going to stop your life and fight the guy because he's a bully, then turn loose a Doberman on him. Don't turn loose a Chihuahua.


Yip, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. No, thank you. One bark, throat, and if you're going to fight, you've got to fight to win.


You really do. And you need to cut off communication.


If you're going to text your text, you need to get your attorneys advise you on exactly how to work. That's exactly right. And just off having conversations with your spouse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I assume you're out of the house in those kinds of things. I'm sorry, honey. I'm sorry you're going through this, but this is this is.


Yeah, it will pass. It will pass. It will pass.


Romona, I guarantee you next year you'll look back on this and go, wow, that was awful. Yep. And I'm glad that's over. It's in the twenty twenty year because I pretty much want to get everything that sucks in twenty twenty and get it over on. Just leave it all in this year. Wisdom teeth root canal twenty over it is get it down between now and like Christmas. I'm going to just try to screw up anything I can screw up so that it doesn't bleed over into next year.


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In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Michael and Amanda are with us on the debt free stage, which can only mean one thing, that they're debt free. Congratulations. Thank you. Welcome. How much have you guys paid off? Three hundred and fifty five thousand dollars. So how long did this take?


About four and a half years. Well, good for you and your range of income during this time, 50 to 100 and seventy eight thousand dollars.


Wow. What do you do for a living? I'm an occupational therapist and I'm a family physician.


OK, very good. So the careers took off? Yeah, we started out just me working a residency and then Amanda joined and then I finished residency. So where do you live? In Gainesville, Florida. OK, cool, cool.


This sounds like maybe is that all medical school or medical school and then my occupational therapy school. OK, so all student loan debt or mostly all student loans. All of it. Yeah. Under three hundred and fifty five thousand dollars.


When you sat down and looked at that, did that like blow your brains. I mean blow your mind. Yeah, it really did. I grew up in a house with a lot of, you know, consumer debt and my dad was constantly getting phone calls, you know, for debts that he had a payday. And so actually, I found you way back in the early 2000s and you were given ah, you had the financial piece going through our local church.


And I said we got to sign up for this. And so from ever since then, he he went through there and got rid of most of his consumer debt and I was on board with that. But then when we end up going through grad school later, I always thought of as maybe something a little different. And I like about halfway through medical school, I really started to feel the weight of that. And I was sitting there, you know, we were already like 150, 200 thousand dollars in debt.


I was just like, oh, my gosh, we have to really change this. And so I started listening to your podcast like three times a day, basically three hours a day. And Amanda, you could she could tell you about just like she was she would walk into the shower and I'd be having a plan. And I mean, it was it was all the time. But, you know, it really changed my mindset. And as soon as we finished up four and a half years ago was when I finish up medical school, we just were like, we got to get this done.


A lot of people wait until the end of residency to get going because that's when the big jump in income was.


I was like, now we got to do this right now, you know, so went and started and then you come out and you're put right out. Okay. I'm sorry. That's right. Occupational therapy. I'm sorry. And so you come out, your career kicks off, too. So you guys are doing great now.


Yeah, I think it didn't really hit me. Like how much like the debt, the numbers. I hadn't heard of you. I just kept hearing about Yoovidhya. Yeah. Michael, you know. Well and so and he kept talking about working off debt, you know, in residency on his free time, wanting to go work a second job, you know, when residency was already all consuming. I, I really didn't like the idea and was like, no one else is doing this, you know, so I struggled with the Dave plan.


OK, well, tell him he's right time there. There were many times many times I was like, turn it off.


Like, I don't want to hear you listening to this all the time and you know it or where you joined a cult.


Yeah, I just I didn't grow up.


Well, at what point did did Amanda did you kind of make that transition and get past all the fact that he was wearing you out with this stuff, turn my name into a cuss word, all that. But at what point did you say, OK, I think this is going to work, I'm on board?


Well, I think that he's a pretty smart guy. And so when he was he talked about this dream and like looking into the future. He's a planner and I'm more of a like right now. And so I just wanted to, you know, be right now. And he kept talking about the future and like, let's just dream about the future and what do we want?


And I think I started to believe, like little by little that like, OK, maybe like we could, you know, get out of this and like, you won't have to work as much.


Like, that's kind of what I saw was like maybe eventually because I went back to work full time after having our first kid. And I really didn't want to. And I think I just started to dream with him about, OK, like, well, if we do this thing you're talking about, maybe life could look different eventually. Hmm. I think I just was more like trusting him that like, let's yeah.


Let's try this, you know, and well and if you play it through then you can be home full time, right. Mm hmm. And you didn't want to go back to work.


I just at least didn't want to go back to work full time when like he was. So little, yeah, you know, which I think when people are getting an occupational therapy degree or any other degree, they don't think about that as a possibility versus, you know, I might not want to work all the time.


Yeah. When I got little kids and but I've got these student loans that are demanding that I do. Mm hmm. And so you got two masters in your life. You know, you're the master of doing the right thing with your kids and then the master of the stinking NAVCENT. Right. Coming down on your head.


Way to go, you guys. I'm so proud of y'all. Yeah, that's a big deal. Michael, as you talk to other people out that are considering the medical field. What advice would you give them?


Well, I would just say, you know, be thoughtful about what you're getting yourself into and realize that even though many people say that it's very different, the consumer, it's not it's still a burden that will live with you for the rest of your life as long. And, you know, I mean, you guys know about all the craziness with the student loan forgiveness that a lot of people pitch in now like no one's getting it. And I have a lot of friends who are really banking on that or are really anxious about it.


And I feel for them. But like we're beyond that, you know? And so it's been a really big blessing to just, well, you hear these headlines every day about like, oh, is it going to happen as a public student loan forgiveness going to happen or not? And I'm just like, I don't have to worry about that. And so that was great. You don't have any. Exactly. So what's the key? What did you tell people to key to paying off three hundred fifty five thousand dollars in four and a half years?


Well, we were talking about this and saying it's really important to be on the same page. Like what? That dreaming I was talking about, like just like looking to the future, like what we want, you know? And then one thing, especially for me, was not comparing ourselves, our situation to people around us. You know, I kept looking at other people in residency and friends or family and thinking, well, they're doing this. Why?


Like, let's just be normal and like do this to, you know, credit cards are fine. Like, you know, let's just get the house. I mean, all the things.


But the dreaming got getting on the same page with the dream change that. Yeah. And one thing I would just say is that, you know, doctors, we are sort of used to living the lifestyle, especially once they get sort of pitched. You finish medical school and you're just like, but, you know, when I was a residency, I was working the time I was working at 68 hours, 60, 80 hours a week. But basically, any opportunity I had, I'd be working like, oh, you know, 10 hour shifts, doing like extra work and stuff.


I was like, we're not going to do this forever. We're asking just for a short period of time. And now we have two kids. We have a three month old as well. And a man is able to stay at home basically as long as she wants. And, you know, if she wants to go back to work, that's great. But, you know, there's no there's no pressure. And I'm not sitting here working a second job anymore.


So I just I love that that clarity that you had, that this isn't forever. Right. It's going to be a short period of time and it's going to be intense. But look at you now.


You know, you've got options. You get to make decisions for you. Yeah. Yeah. Congratulations, you two.


So well done. Yes, very, very well done. Congratulations. Fantastic. How's it for you?


It's awesome. We did a lot of celebrating. Good. What you did to celebrate.


Oh well, every every single time that we, you know, we wish our debts was also our just every single time that we actually paid off one of the individual student loans. I don't know if you remember, but you had a guy on your show a while back, the one here that paid paying Sallie Mae back song.


So we'd actually play that song and like dance to it every single time, every little of love that we have many videos throughout the years of us dancing to that.


And for our last payment this December, we did that too, and we did it with our first kid.


And well, let's get him in the picture for your debt free scream. That's perfect. We got a copy of this book for you every day, millionaires and get them all in here. This is perfect. Yeah. All right. It is Michael. Amanda, OK. And Jade from Gainesville, Florida. Three hundred and fifty five thousand paid off in four and a half years. Make it fifty to 178. Count it down.


Let's hear a debt free scream three to one with debt free. Oh, fire that you music games, if you can find it. This is the song I danced to, by the way, just to let you guys know the good full time job. He's fabulous. Very that thing went viral. It went crazy four or five years ago.


I guess that we got you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.


Worked out way cooler than me and somewhat cooler than you.


Oh yeah. Without a doubt. I have no cool none whatsoever. I hang out with cool people. That makes me look cool. All right. Linda is in Portland, Oregon. Linda, welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show.


Hi, Dave. Hi, Chris. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Can you hear? So I'm going to be a little bit vague and I apologize right now, but I am a survivor of domestic abuse, I'm sure.


Sorry. So I'm safe. Could I have a great job? Mm hmm. He I'm in a great neighborhood. I bought him a farm house. I can be mortgage free in 17 years. I have thirty five thousand dollars on a truck, which I can pay off as soon as the divorce is final. I want to make sure I'm being a good steward of my children and myself because I bought them off the house and I the house appreciated like over a hundred and seventy five thousand dollars in a year.


Mm hmm. OK, so I'm safe here. I have great neighbors and they take care of me and they take care of my children. I just I want to make sure that I'm not ignoring my head wall leading with my heart. Can you afford the house?


I can I actually have a great job and thank you for letting me be vague and not asking me what I do for a living. OK, that's OK.


So can you show me can you tell me what my take home pay is a month.


Without child support or with or without. My take home a month is what you were going to ask me this, I put down a whole bunch of stuff for a bullet points my take home a month after taxes and health insurance is about 6000 dollars.


And how much is your house payment? My house payment is twenty five hundred dollars a month. That's pretty steep. It is if he doesn't pay the child support and he's an abuser, so we can pretty much assume that he's not going to pay child support at some point.


No, I have his wages garnished. Yeah, but he'll change jobs and he's a manipulator and he'll hide money.


And, you know, I hope not. I hope he pays it, but but I don't trust abusers. So I have to I have to build your life on a safe foundation, which is. What a word. That's a big deal to you.


So it is the. 2500 out of 6000 is pretty tight. I mean, that's like 44, 40 percent of your income. And I don't I don't know if you're going to do that long term. Does your income come up? Do you have any projection of your income coming up? My job is incredibly safe. Is it coming up, an income? Only because of yearly increases, because of my years of service. Yeah. How old are your kids, Linda?


That's not my name, so catches me off guard because it was terrible, Cheryl, but I can't tell you that does do OK, that's fine.


Honey, here's the thing. The bottom line is, is that 2500 as a percentage of 6000 is very difficult.


Yeah, that's the bottom line. So you feel safe now. But the very thing that causes you to feel unsafe making our calls, you feel safe may economically, mathematically lead you to becoming unsafe because you may get yourself into a paint yourself into the corner trying to hold on to this house. Oh, absolutely. So I'm not going to, you know, throw my fist down demand. You saw it today. But I want you to watch this very carefully, because by having that much of a house payment, you're going to feel forced into not saving for college, forced into not saving for emergencies, forced into going into debt to buy a kit, a car.


You're going to feel forced because you got no money because go going stinking house, your house poor. So I'm not saying you got to sell it today, but every year you've got to revisit this and decide again. Is this still wise?


Yeah. And here's the reality. As you look at rebuilding your life, you need some stability in there. So being plugged in with the church, having good people around you, but that home is just the house and the kids preferences. Kids are resilient. You can find nice neighbors somewhere else. But this is a matter of you moving forward. And in order to move forward means you have to grow forward, which means you've got to release some stuff.


And so this House may, in fact, end up being one of those things that you have to release in order for you to be able to truly to move forward financially and mathematically.


Five years from today, if you're still fighting this exact same ratio or within three percent a year raises of the same ratio, you're going to be struggling. You've got so much of a house payment. I mean, you're you're very close to me going you need to sell it right now. But if you want to fight it for a year or two, I'm just giving you the warning of what you're facing, an uphill uphill climb. Thanks for the call.


And I'm so sorry you're going through this. It's a horrible, horrible thing you've endured. And I'm glad you're getting the other side of that. That's a bigger win than the mathematical stuff.


You go you can you beat this stuff. You can beat the math for sure.


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Chris, our question.


All right. Today's question comes from Jacquelyn in Oklahoma. She asks, Our son starts college next year, but we are just past baby step three. Do we need to skip retirement savings and save for college? Gizelle intense or invest in retirement for baby step number four? Well, Jacqueline, I can tell you this without a shadow of a doubt, there's many ways for your young person to get a higher education and there's a 50/50 chance that they go to college and graduate.


There's a 100 percent chance that you're going to have to retire 100 percent at either some point your body won't let you work or your job lets you go, whatever it is, 100 percent chance. So there is absolutely no way that I'm going to put off investing for your retirement. Not at all. In a matter of fact, if you look at the baby steps we talk about, you can invest that fifteen percent and save for college as well.


College and scholarships they grant scholarships are available to many people are just assuming the kids have to take on debt.


You know, I agree on the only thing I might do is I might tap the brakes for six months and get that first semester or first year cash float and then start my baby. Step four, if you can get that going with a plan to cover the other years while starting your retirement, that's fine.


But I'm not going to say, oh, no, we're not going to start retirement for four years. I agree with Chris. So here's the thing about college. Pick up Anthony O'Neil's book number one bestseller, Debt Free Degree. It'll walk you through exactly how to go to school debt free.


Now, no one thing when you're going to school, if you want to go debt free, is college choice. It's simple. Choose a school you can afford that typically is going to be an end state school, state school in-state, not out-of-state. And, you know, it's going to be one fourth to one eighth of a private school in the same neighborhood. And the other thing is check your state, a lot of states now have the first two years of community college free or almost free, and line those tax credits up where they can transfer.


Choosing where to go to school is the number one value proposition of getting a good degree and getting a degree that works and getting a debt free working while you're in school for the kid is not child abuse.


Getting it, getting the kid to sign up for scholarships five five a week that easily.


One a day every day. And and they get turned down for most of them. But if they get a few of them, it'll go a long way towards getting this done. You do that handful of things with the other stuff from the debt free degree book. Your child can go to school debt free. They're going to be they're going to be working and going to be playing beer pong.


A novel idea. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. On your smart speaker, you can add our skill by saying, Alexa, open the Ramsey network skill. From there, you can listen to all our shows. Ask Dave money questions like how do I invest my money or what is the debt snowball? Find out more at Dave Ramsey.


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