Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the car rental studios at the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king and the pain of home mortgage. Taking the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice, my co-host today on the air, a number one best selling author multiple times, and Remzi personality, the voice of the everyday millionaire. Mr. Chris Hogan joins me. We will be talking to you about your life and your money and how they are intertwined inextricably.

The phone number eight eight two five five two two five.

That's triple eight eight two five five two two five.

Rebecca is with us in Albany, New York. Hi, Rebecca. How are you? Hi, I'm doing well, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I have a question about term life insurance. My husband is 31 years old, but he has a medical condition that when I called Zander, they estimated to be 75 to one hundred a month for a pretty low policy. And so I'm not sure whether we should go ahead with something like that or do a higher priced, no medical questions asked kind of term insurance.

We have no debt and we don't have children yet and we are putting 15 percent towards retirement.

So why would you pay a higher price? Because I've heard that if he gets denied because of his medical condition, then you can't get life insurance. Not true. That true. Not true. They lie.

What is the nature of your many of the medical condition?

Bipolar. OK. All right.

That's very serious in the life insurance world. Yeah, the statistics on it, they don't like and so. The but the guaranteed issue, the higher price that you're talking about, they will issue it to anyone, whether they've been denied six times or never been denied. OK, so you don't lose that option by going the other route and what you've got to do and Chris, Chris and I have worked with us many, many times over the years, you've got to build the narrative.

You've got to tell the story of his particular situation. Where is he in the bipolar journey? In other words, is he if he's on meds, have they got an imbalanced as he's staying on them? Right. Is he meeting with a counselor? And he's making progress because there are people with bipolar that do very, very well when they work the plan. We work with a lot of bipolar.

Yeah, absolutely. Rebecca, as Dave mentioned, that narrative is going to be really, really important. And so is does he have a physician and a counselor that he's seeing right now? Yes, OK. And so you want to document that you want to talk through and go ahead and formally apply so you can begin to walk through and see it, and that way you're not speculating. You can start to deal in known facts.

OK, because there's a spectrum here. It's like saying I have cancer. What does flip does that mean?

OK, I mean, if you got stage four lung cancer or did you have a mole removed?

You know, I mean, what is what what what are the what you mean? And so there's a spectrum here and the insurance company does look, if you've got a good one and Zander can help you walk through the underwriting process and help you get there.

But, yeah, I'm going to put some kind of life insurance in place. Absolutely. Seventy five dollars a month done safely is hurting anybody. And that gets you started.

And then obviously any kind of health condition that affects insurability the more distance you get between it time wise. In other words, if he's been without any episodes of any kind that were dramatic on the bipolar side and he's you're seeing, in other words, healing and progress and stability, the more the longer that's been going on, the more insurable you become.

Yeah, just like if you had a cancer diagnosis, it's been five years. It's a different answer at the insurance company than if it's been 15 years. Yeah, same thing. Yeah.

Now, I just want to clarify for everybody out there, remember, the goal of life insurance is to replace your income. So it's really important to have that in place. We talk about term life insurance 10 to 12 times. Now, let's break this down. So if you're making fifty thousand a year, you're going to be looking at 500 to 600000 in term life insurance coverage. And if you've got a spouse that's not working, you want a minimum of 350 to 450 on them, because if something happens to them, you're going to have to pay someone to either help you or are you going to have to move to find out the economic value of a stay at home mom in that moment?

Oh, yes, you will. So, again, if you're out there and you don't have turn, please get that in place. Reach out to Zander and don't Dave. People will tell me this all the time and I get frustrated. They'll say, well, I'm getting it through my job. It's not enough. It's not enough. And the problem is portability. If you lose or leave that job or get laid off. Hello, covid.

Now, you don't have that coverage anymore, so you want that coverage outside of your job, you know, and if while you're working there you had enough insurance and then you got a diabetes diagnosis and then you left that job for whatever reason, you can't get insurance then.

So you've lost your insurability while you were covered by a company, by a company plan that didn't go with you. That's the portability. It's not portable. It doesn't it doesn't go with you.

So it's OK to have some through the company, but having it all there puts you at a much greater risk.

Yes, it does. I would take the company stuff if it's a good price and free is always a good price. But if they're showing it to you, you may want to look at it. Sometimes the plans they sell through a benefit package is really not there. A bunch of crap and a lot of cases. So check that out as well. Do that, you know, along the same lines. I get this from Holly on Facebook. They 100000 under universal life policy.

Now I'm really embarrassed. Well, I'm sorry, Holly. We all done stupid stuff. It's OK.

Can I do anything with the money or fund value?

Is there a rollover to Universal Universal to term, or do I just cancel and start the term policy? No, that's just not a rollover.

Whatever your cash value is, is what you'll get and you need to cancel it and get the cash value after you have your term insurance in place.

Because when there's a hole in your pocket, meaning you're signed up for a bad deal, you don't keep in the bad deal because there's a little money over here in a piggy bank, you know, keep put money in the pocket with a hole in it and wonder where the money went.

So you need to get your term insurance in place and cancel that crap. And again, check Zander Insurance and they'll walk you through the process and take a little time and a little bit of effort to go through this.

But it's going to save you a lot of money and make you a lot more money with investing in real investments instead of insurance. Investing money into a life insurance policy is really the payday lender, the middle class.

You're just getting screwed. There's no other way to say the math on it is astronomically horrible. So not trying to shame you. I bought the same crap you bought Holly.

I was 20 something years old and some goober from college combined Northwestern Mutual Doob and sold me a policy and I was a bigger dude because I bought it.

So do you ever buy that stuff?

I did not. I actually. But that's one version of stupid I didn't do. No, I did all the a lot of other.

I never did a timeshare. That one I managed to miss. Yeah, I did that. I think I've done just about all of you. I did the timeshare. You did do the time. Yeah. OK, well that we're even still in the club you know you're in the. OK, all right.

But listen, one of the big, big moments is if you do have one of these policies and you're hearing us, they've said this twice and I want to reiterate it, get term in place before you cancel what you have, OK? You want it full it in effect of. Then you can cancel what you have. You don't want to die with no insurance in the middle of this process, right? That's right. It's a bad plan. So the whole thing here is take care of your family, take care of your family, address this stuff.

Oh, by the way, you're going to die. You know that. But we're here to help you with the obvious. We make good money on the obvious around here. You're going to die. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Technology and innovation are crucial for any company's success, but the primary focus should always be on you and meeting your needs. That's why you get the best of both with Zander Insurance and their term life plans. Xander uses time saving technology like over the phone applications, voice or electronic signature, and even plans with no medical exams to speed up the process of getting you the protection your family needs.

They are committed to serving. You go to Xander Dotcom or call 800 three five six, 42, 82. Chris Ogen, multiple number one, best selling author and Remzi personality, is my co-host today here on the air. Chris, we've got a question from a YouTube, but Randall says this is the first year I'm in a position to give generously. Well, what do I need to consider when it comes to giving to an organization? I've heard about a maximum for a gift tax.

Does that apply to all giving?

Yeah. Well, first of all, first and foremost, Randal, congratulations on putting yourself in a position to be able to be a blessing because giving is a two way blessing. It blesses the place that you're giving to the cause you're supporting, but it also gives you a blessing. And so it is without a shadow of a doubt, the most fun you can have with money.

Yeah, it is. And you're going to you know, we always teachers three things to do with money. You need to enjoy it, meaning lifestyle. Most people don't struggle with that one. You need to give it and you need to save and invest it so that you can do more of the giving and the enjoying. That's right. But you will find the further you get in your financial journey, the further down into your everyday millionaire journey that you get, that the more joy that you do get more joy from properly done giving.

Now, improperly done giving would be giving to something that's distant and you have no emotional connection to you. Don't get the the givers high. Hmm.

But if you you know, you got a single mom sitting next to you in church and you reach over and pay her rent for half a year because she lost her job for covid.

That's a giving the Conex. Bless her. Blessed you, that kind of a thing. Now, the gift tax only applies if you're not giving to a nonprofit.

Now, nonprofit would be your church, a ministry, something in the area that's a 501 C three, OK? And so if it's not a not if it's a five, I wouldn't say three.

There's no limit on how much you can give and there's a limit on how much you can take as a tax deduction depending on your income. And your accountant can help you with that formula. But the 501.

C3 is 100 percent deductible.

If you're giving to an individual like you're just going to give your brother some money or something like that, then you do have a fifteen thousand dollar gift tax limitation this year and you want to be really careful with going over that.

There's some techniques you can use to go over that if you want to give to individuals.

But if you go over that and don't use some kind of a technique, everything over that's going to be taxed upwards of 50 percent. So the gift tax is horrendous.

Do not do not give away one hundred thousand dollars.

Just act like to your to your mother in law and just act like that's OK. You're going to wish you had never met your mother in law when the tax bill comes.

So, you know, you got to do that.

So here's one technique. If you're married and you're going to give some money to your kids who are married, your son and daughter in law, OK, then you can give him 15 and her 15, your wife can give him 15 and her 15.

Now we got four. Fifteen thousand. Our checks are sixty thousand transferred. That's what I write for separate checks and make sure you've got a real clean paper trail that would all qualify.

But if you're going to go over that over 60 in that scenario, you're going to have to figure out some other techniques and you would check out what's called the Unified Estate Tax Credit, where you can get some advice from your tax accountant, get this going. But the bottom line is, if you're giving to a minister, you just don't worry about it and you get through a ministry or something like that. You're there's a lot of ways to do this.

And congratulations on joining the big boys club, the big girl club, because when you start giving, that's when you're officially an adult.

Dave, I've never heard you use the term, but giving high. But there is something about that. I tell you, when you step into a situation anonymously or regardless, it does do something to your spirit. It really does. It increases everything. You're just excited.

Well, I'm getting old and I've got a lot of famous friends now, and one of them is named Santa Claus. And there's a reason Santa Claus is jolly.

Yeah. He gets to give to kids all the time. Yeah. And he's, you know, he's always laughing, you know, he's always grinning.

And, you know, you never see people that are generous people with a scowl that's not a generous person. They don't give money.

You know, think about if you think of the face of a miser.

Scrooge. Scrooge. Yeah. You think of a scowl. Yeah. But you think if somebody's giving you see you immediately see this great big smile with all those teeth sticking out.

And because that's that's a giving a generous person, you can see it on their countenance, on their face, you can see it in the way they walk when you start to give.

I'm so excited for you, Randall, because you're gonna discover a whole new segment of life when you become outrageously and crazy generous, because when you start to do this, it affects your personality.

And here's the thing. Generous people are highly attractive. These are attractive individuals.

You're going to find out. You get promotions at work. You're going to find out that people want to hire you for project.

You're going to be asked to join the club that you never thought, you know, because all of a sudden you're just a likeable dude, you know that.

And it's not because I want your money. No, no. It's something about you internally because generosities not an act. It's a character quality. Yeah. Integrity is not an act. It's a character quality.

And what you're doing is you're developing this character quality with the act of physical, literal monetary generosity.

It really is that I want to remind everybody, giving is not just about money. You've got an opportunity to be able to give with your time as well as your talent. And so that giving aspect as money, time, talent, look for opportunities are causes that you believe in and engage with them. It is amazing what happens. And I think that's one of the ways we can heal this nation, is to get our mindset shifted on being able to give back and engage with people.

You know, it's that there is something that happens in the human spirit when you do this. So, you know, if you're going to do over 15000, you need to investigate the tax issues. And if you're going to be giving to a ministry or a nonprofit, if you're giving the Red Cross, that's a non-profit for hurricane relief, if you're giving to the homeless shelter, it's usually going to be a nonprofit in your city. Or if you're giving to a ministry that's an extension of your church and you're giving to a missionary family through the church, that kind of a thing, or giving to a missionary project where a house is being built in a you know, in a developing country or something for a family or they're building a schoolhouse, you know, you're directing it through there.

That's all 100 percent deductible. You don't to worry about it.

I remember you say in talking years ago when I first started, you said, you know, you get all kinds of people coming at you, all kinds of charities and things of that nature. But you said you and Sharon will sit down and talk about what causes you're going to support and you make a list of those and and you lavishly support that list. And I really like that because you're being as intentional with your giving as you are with your budgeting, you know, and then when someone's mad because I say, no, that's OK.

Right. I'm OK with that. Yeah.

Because it's not your money that you don't get to decide you have a vote today.

We don't do it with Sharon or not today. We do it through the Ramsey Family Foundation that my daughter runs. Right. And so actually, I just got an email a few minutes ago. She's setting up the annual meeting where we will go through and establish the list this year.

And and it's not a thing where you're from the outside. You can, you know, do a grant entry to the Ramsey Family Foundation.

It's just our methodology of pooling the cash and then 100 percent of the ministries and things that we choose or something that we somehow one of us, Ramsey kids, Ramsey inlaw kids, me, Sharon, are connected to. And sometimes it's something we've met this year. Right. But sometimes it's one we've supported for 25 years, you know, and we just have continue to do that. So again, it's a small list, but in that way we're able to keep the gifts where they're meaningful.

Yeah.

In other words, we're not doing 500 gifts of five hundred dollars. I would drive you bananas at tax time, you know, plus you get everybody coming at you then.

Yeah.

And you know, you like because once you do that once it's like that guys over there, that guy's over there, that guy's over there, that guy's over there. And all sudden you're on six, you know, six charity boards and you're on the board just because they want your money and all that kind of stuff.

So you get you get often the dark side of this thing really quickly if you're not careful.

So keep it to where it's manageable or you enjoy it and go ahead and vet the organization if you're going to give them a lot, what you call a lot of money, then spend a lot of time on this this place, you know, like you give an example if they borrow money.

Well, we can't give Tom. In our case, because that would be a guideline, if you're a duh da, we don't borrow money, so why am I going to give money to them so they can give money to the bank?

That would be dumb, right?

Be inconsistent with who I am as a person. Right. Or our family as a people. So that would be an example at our house. Maybe maybe you got something in your house that you say, you know, if they do X or do Y, we're not gonna do that. So you need to investigate, make sure they're running the thing well, make sure it's managed well, make sure they're operating principles are right. So, Áron, Randall Pratten, proud of you, man.

You just you're entering a whole nother phase. A whole nother gear, baby kaha.

Go, my brother. Go. You're going to have fun. Generosity is the best part of the whole money picture. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, guys, at the Dave Ramsey Show, we really value your input, it helps us to know what's important to you so we can deliver relevant content to help you crush your money goals. We just launched a brand new survey, and we'd love your feedback. It only takes a few minutes and you'll be entered to win a one hundred dollar Amazon gift card.

No purchase necessary. Take the survey at Dave Ramsey Dotcom survey or text survey to 33 789.

In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Kyle and Emily are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Good. Hey, right here on the debt free stage, which can mean only one thing.

You're here to do a debt free scream. That's right. I love it. What do you guys live out? ADA, Oklahoma.

ADA, Oklahoma. Oh, my goodness.

Our CFO, Mark Floyd here is from there. Oh. And so, yeah, we've got some great ADA stories around here. I'm just saying that.

All right, guys, welcome. How much have you paid off?

We paid 170000 off. All right. How long did this take? About 10 months.

Good for you. Very cool. And.

What was your range of income during that 10 months? About 140 to 150. Good for you. OK, what are you guys do for a living? I'm a nurse practitioner in an emergency department and I do administrative work.

OK, so you either had some money in savings to throw at this or you sold something.

Well, I wish we had money in savings to start, but we we started with nothing, but we sold a few things to kind of get jump started, some small things.

But the biggest help was I signed a loan reimbursement contract with the National Health Service Corps, two year service commitment for 50000 dollars.

Oh, that was a big chunk of it. And then the other 57000 we did. And yeah, OK, that makes the math work. Yeah.

Emily, tell me, what did you all pay off? We paid off a minivan, credit card and student loans.

Student loans option. Lots and lots of student loans. You had many a minivan. You've got to go to one. Oh, well, we only have two.

And it took me a while to figure out, you know, needing a minivan tour. But it's been it's been a blessing. Very cool. Well, you got it paid off. It's great. So what happened 10 months ago that let you guys on fire? I let her do this.

Maybe a trip to Hobby Lobby. OK, shortly after my purchases call calls and he says, hey, we don't need to spend any more money. We basically have enough to cover the bills until we get paid again. And I just got off the phone and I felt confused. I felt discouraged because I had just went back to work from being a stay at home mom. He had finished school, started his new position in the E.R. as a provider.

So we had just doubled our income. Yet here we were not enough money by the end of the pay period.

So just paycheck to paycheck. Just so what did you do?

Well, I at first start thinking we need to increase our income. Yeah. And then some our brains are we'll all go back to school. And I thought, well, no, they don't have to take out more student loans. So would we would it really help? And then I thought, no, we need to change our behavior with money. And I called Kyle and I said, let's pay off this debt. Let's change our behavior with money.

Let's do the Dave Ramsey plan. Let's actually follow it this time.

Oh, so you had already knew who we were. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. It is kind of a Ramsey ish or not. Not even that is.

I found your book at Goodwill a few years before. OK, so it's basically a coaster though on the call. It was a coaster. Yeah. We, we read it and we said, oh we should definitely do this and at some point we'll do it and now it's time to start the Hobby Lobby trip broke the ice.

Yeah. Yeah. But once she said she's she's ready to do it, I said this is our chance.

This is like in the nerd world, she's on board. I'll, I'll do anything. Wait a minute. So who's the nerd.

That's me. Oh. Okay.

So anything with charts and figuring out the math, I mean when we first I said I think we can get this paid off in eighteen months if we really buckle down.

And then you know, we kept crunching numbers and saying oh well maybe like thirteen months or would you have considered that service contract if you weren't in this big game that you're into. I mean I got to win the game here. Right. I got to knock it right. That's what's going through your nerd head. I know that's the way my brain works.

Fortunately, I you know, I, I was able to do it at a place where I was I'd been working as a registered nurse for him for a couple of years. And that opportunity came up and and they're one of the hospitals that you're able to do this with. And so much like you were going to be doing it anyway. Yeah, it was it was perfect.

And, you know, now if we if we would have done it outside of this, you know, I still don't know if we would have just buckled down and finally done it, but it came at a perfect time, I think, about five or six months into it.

And so that was a big, big day to get that to convince God when you start doing smart stuff, God looks down and goes, oh, yeah, there's one I can trust. OK, that's exactly right. I'll give you a little. But you were kind of done before, so I wouldn't even give you any. But yeah, I think he does that. I really do. How much was the student loan debt.

About 64 was mine and she had about three or four thousand. So I did the majority.

She had the minivan and the minivan. Yeah, yeah. I got to contribute some of something here. It's a great way to go.

You guys. Did you have any major cheerleaders throughout this journey?

I would definitely say our two boys, Dathan in Miles, Dathan was a huge motivator.

Yeah, he's he's our eight year old and he was on board right from the start from it. And I always watch the show and podcast with us. And I was in school one day and I had a teacher telling a story about this girl that wanted to help people in California get solar panels for everybody. And she said, you know, I'll even help fill out loan applications for him to do all this. And he raised his hand in class and said, why would she do that?

Like, why would she let them go into debt for this?

So that was it. I said, we've done it, we've we've got 10 years old like this I in California. Oh, my God.

Way to go. I love it. He's a he's a big fan. Well, congratulations, you guys. We're very proud of you, but way to go. And you brought the kiddos with you.

Bring them in. Let's get some more of their names and ages.

So we have a date then who's going to be nine in a few days? All right. And then Miles, who's five? All right.

Very good looking boys looking family. Well, so what do you tell people? The secret to getting out of debt is definitely for me.

It was knowing the why, and my wife was for financial peace because every day I wasn't too thrilled about it, eating a peanut butter and jelly for lunch and not going shopping. So I definitely had to know the why and remind myself of that daily. And mine was the root of it was just being intentional, just intentionality, like waking up every day. And and we had things to show us our goals and keeping track of all the dead and making sure I, you know, balance the budget every day.

It's not something it was a habit for either one of us and just being very intentional. And again, it goes back to all of it, budgeting, knowing the why and and focusing on it.

I mean, you did all of it off of a total money makeover book from Goodwill. Yeah. How in the Pocket Watch the podcast. And then we just we just consumed everything after that, so. OK. All right. Very cool.

Yeah. So now that you're done ten months, a real peanut butter and jelly beans and rice, was it worth it?

How's it feel? Absolutely. Oh my gosh. It's we still it still feels so surreal. Not, you know, not having a payment. I haven't I mean, we have a house payment, but not having any other payment in the world is a pretty good feeling. Yeah. Pretty cool. Yeah. Pretty cool. And is not going to let you get solar panels. You easy.

You know, all the cars go dytham accountable. Oh man. You know, I love it.

We've got a copy of Chris Hoggins book for you Everyday Millionaires, a number one bestseller. And of course that's the next chapter in your story. You're going to be millionaires.

That's pretty cool. How old are you, too?

I'm 31, 29 for thirty next month, so probably by 40 or so you'll be there maybe thirty seven something make you make good money. You're going to be right there. Well you don't, you don't to continue sacrifices as well, but just continue to be intentional and limited out. And that's what we saw when we studied the millionaires.

That's right. Be hyper intentional, get connected with the smart Vesterbro and let's walk this thing out.

You are very cool. So proud of yourself. Very well done. Well done.

All right, David and Miles, you guys ready? Ready. All right. Here we go. Col. Emily Dytham, Miles, all from ADA, Oklahoma.

One hundred and seven thousand dollars paid off in ten months. Make it one 50 or 100 to 150. Count it down, not zero.

Debt free scream.

One, two, three, three. Oh, they had rehearsed a few times. I like it, they're ready legged and they had a long drive. Well done, you guys. Oh. So when is it going to be your turn? Yeah, I'm talking to you. Yeah. You sure? Your turn. When are you going to decide to say never again and put yourself in a position to win with this stuff? This is the Dave Ramsey Show.

Chris and Ramsey personality, a number one best selling author, is my co-host today here on the air. Nic is in Anchorage, Alaska. Hi, Nick. Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, how are you?

Better than I deserve. How can we help? My wife and I have about forty one thousand left to pay on our house. And we're wondering if it would be a good idea to cash out our deferred comp to help pay that off faster than I would really want to, but I'd hate to pay all those taxes.

Yeah, let's keep going back and forth. We're just getting impatient. Yeah.

See, the way I look at it is you probably don't pay out 25, 30 percent in tax on that. And it's kind of like borrowing money at 25 or 30 percent interest to pay off your mortgage. Yeah, and I just I wouldn't do that, so we tell people not to cash out retirement unless it's to avoid a bankruptcy or foreclosure, and that's certainly not your case. You're almost done with your mortgage. Way to go, Nick.

Nick, how much was this home when you all bought it? We paid to 15, but it's probably worth at least 250. You all have been intentional. My goodness, how much are you paying each month toward this thing? Are payments about 16 fifty, OK, but are you better at an extra two? Yeah, yeah, we've been chunkin away at it and it's a chance to try to do at least two thousand a month extra. That's really the extra money you're going to be done.

Yeah. Yeah. How old are you all make? I'm thirty eight and my wife is 35.

Yeah. Way to go. Yeah. You're going to be done in a year there. Catching up. No horns and Anchorage. Dave Unicorn's because that's awesome. Nick, I understand the mindset around it and the irritation but you want to be smart. Remember you're playing offense as well as defense and so let your money keep growing. But you guys keep throwing money at this thing. I think you'll have this thing out of your life faster than you believe.

I mean, when you start putting 2600, that's thirty six hundred and forty one thousand. Do the math. You're done a year. Yep. I mean probably done eleven months actually, but somewhere out there. Yeah. And you know when you get close to the finish line, nothing happens is they're just going to start just going like you know.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Sprinting knock it out. So he probably done in ten months but ok. Well done sa. Proud of you. Jenay is in Dallas. Hi Jenny. How are you.

Hello. I'm doing well. Thank you guys for having me. Sure. How can we help me and my husband are on a disagreement on when to buy a house. We are completely debt free thanks to your principles. In 2013 we paid off forty nine thousand.

Way to go. Well, Chris and I are here to tell you who's wrong.

Yes. And Jake, it's going to be me. Oh, hold on, Jenny.

You have to agree to go with what, David? Oh, well, do you agree?

No. So, I mean, I think you both set up that's I've been set up here.

Hear that? Chris was the co-host.

Come at me. Oh, all right. Tell us the scenario. I'm ready now.

OK, so we are currently renting in North Dallas, so housing is expensive, but my husband would like to save up and buy a smaller house and probably one to two years, whereas or buy that house and then five or ten years down the road, upgrade our house. I would like to wait more down on the house, buy the same priced house in seven to ten years. Mm hmm. Okay.

And in both cases, you're debt free and have the emergency fund in place before you buy the house, right?

Correct. OK, all right. So, Darren, this is. Yeah, this is not as good as I know. It's not, because this is just like because you're both right. Yeah. You could do either one. Either one is fine. It becomes a matter of preference then.

So this is the one item on this show that I give advice or quote, allow people to do that is inconsistent with the way I live because I do not borrow money for anything ever in any circumstance, no matter what the building we're sitting in or seventy million dollars.

We paid cash for it. We're not going to build it. Newspaper headline Was Ramsey bilges at the speed of cash, you know, because we don't build unless we have the money. So, you know, so my answer would be a day Ramsay's house would be different than we would allow you to do now where you're buying a home on a fifteen year fixed with a good strong down payment and the payments, no more than a fourth of your take home pay.

You're out of debt and you have your emergency fund. You're in the zone to buy a house. Now, do you want to wait a little longer, buy a different house? Do you want to put more down? Do you want to do 100 percent down plan in five years rather than a 20 percent down in eighteen months?

Those are all things you, too, can decide, but neither one of you are in the stupid zone.

Yeah, I got to get back. Yeah, I got to keep whatever you tell me. We're going to do it now.

Oh my goodness. It's today. I do want to know why are you willing to wait longer before getting the house.

Because the rental house that we're in provides us a lot more space than a house that we'd be able to purchase. Oh, OK.

She'd be moving down in space, OK? And so that gives you the ability emotionally to have the patients, correct?

Yeah. How many kids you got? We have two and are starting an adoption process but with like four.

How old are you two right now. Three and one know. How old are you got your mom. I am thirty one and thirty three with my husband. And what's your household income.

My husband is the social worker and he makes about eighty five. OK, so you could you know what.

Why don't you probably will do is somewhere between your idea and his idea. I'm just kind of hit the middle because it's still in the smart zone. Neither one of those are going to be dumb. You're going to put it on short term. You're still going to pull off the exact same goals, because what you've not used in this calculation unless you're highly unusual is increases in income. That you that will occur during the five to seven year period. You didn't consider those, did you know?

Yeah, so you linearly took your existing income out and used it as your only projection method, so you're a little low.

And so I think you could probably do your plan in five years and you probably do his plan and your plan in four years or five years, something like that.

And so I'm going to land in the three to five range as a as really just, you know, coming together between the two of you because you're both within the range of smart.

You're both. This is not a thing where, you know, you're being silly. You're being immature. Because I thought when you called, you know, you were just going to be I a house right now.

I want a house. We have sixty four thousand dollars in credit card debt and to lease cars. And I want a house because rent's expensive in North Dallas. That's what I thought. You were going to be ready to pounce.

You were ready. Were was your growling. Yeah. You were grabbing your me.

I didn't get there intimidating. Oh, stop it. Because well, I mean, she wasn't that she wasn't that caller.

No, she wasn't. Johnny, do me a favor. Talk to your husband, hear his heart, make sure he hears yours and you guys decide for you this is not something you need to be at odds. This is about something gain agreement, like how are we going to do this? And you may find ways to bring in extra money. He may find ways and you guys can surprise yourselves, but be aligned and be rowing in the same direction.

You know what?

Here's a thing to enter into this conversation, too. I was thinking because that's really smart and listen to the heart part of this, because sometimes when Sharon and I are talking about this and we're having this argument about what to do, when to do it and all that kind of thing, it's not it's oftentimes not what to do. It's just when and what comes first, what comes second and that kind of thing. And so I'll just go, OK, on a scale of one to ten, this is a ten for you, like really a big deal or a one.

And for her, the space is a big deal, especially with two added kids. Mm hmm.

OK, and not being a cracker box and jammed in there with three for little kids, I'll drive you nuts.

And so that's a that's a ten for her. Right. And he hears that. Then he goes, OK, I get that. That's the big deal. So now we've got to modify the plan that allows us to move into something that has some space. Right.

And that might be her time frame to get her space right.

Instead of because he's not the one at home with four little.

That's right. But in his mind, he's wanting to attack something and get out. It's not really a great start. OK, I'll talk to you guys. Got the perfect blend. Yeah, this is great. I like this. And you guys will do what's in the best interests of the family.

Yeah, anywhere from three to five year plan is probably going to be where you guys land is going to be smart and you're going to do well.

And Jinney, don't lie to your husband and say we voted for you. Go back and play this for him so he can hear it. Listen to the show. I bet he does, because I think he sent her in here. Yeah. Oh, my God.

You shouldn't be having as much fun to be getting paid to help in your country pay. Don't you dare put this out of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books.

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