Hey, guys, this is James Charles, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. Dave and the team are out spending time with their families for Christmas. That will be live again soon. In the meantime, we put together some of the best clips from the show for you to enjoy. You were listening to the best of the Dave Ramsey Show. Merry Christmas. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions in the car rental studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show where debt is dumb.

Cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Our co-host on the show today, Ramsey, personality number one, best selling author and host of the Ken Coleman Show Mitrokhin. Coleman himself joins me. The phone numbers, if you want to talk about your life and your money and your career, Kim talks about jobs and getting them and careers and gaining them and living your best possible income side of your life all the time.

And matter of fact, he's been on the air for a couple of hours right before he walked in here. So three more hours hanging out with me today. Open phones again, triple eight eight two five five two two five. That's triple eight eight two five five two, two, five. Now, start off with Christopher in Tennessee Ken. Hey, Christopher, how are you?

Not hearing Christopher. Three, two, OK, is this a reset from the other thing? All right, I'll try again and see if we can get to him. Ken is in California. Hi, Ken. Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show.

How are you doing? Great man. How can we help? I have a question. Me and my wife were we just started this program about the middle of May. And we're looking we have multiple different debt. We have auto loan debt, student loan debt and, of course, mortgage debt. Now, considering now our student loan debt, they have their confidence about forbearance and we're thinking about doing forbearance to help pay down that auto loan debt. First, we just want to know your opinion on it.

Doesn't matter. It's pay me now. Pay me later. Everything you don't pay on the student loan in terms of principal or interest, you'll have to pay later. And so all you're doing is just in a sense, you're borrowing against a student loan to pay off the the because you're paying less on the student loan that you do have to pay later. So, you know, you're dragging your feet on it so you can speed up the other one.

Doesn't matter if that's if you want knock that car loan out. That's not a bad idea.

But just, you know, don't ever be under the illusion that the student loan folks are doing you any favors. It's not the business that they're in.

I see. OK. Yeah.

So, I mean, all the for all forbearance means is the word means patience. I. OK, yeah, and so if you if you delay it now, you know, use it to your advantage, don't just delay it to kick the can down the road. And that's what people do with student loans like they do with so many other decisions. I figure if they can kick the can down the road, I'll deal with it later. Problem is, it gets bigger.

It's like a dead splinter in your hand. Yeah.

So in this situation, it's OK. If he puts all of his effort, it becomes this is our snowball and we're just going to put everything to work so that people go bankrupt. And that's that's right. So you have to be completely disciplined here. Yeah. It's like you are your death on your debt snowball. I mean your game on Gazelle, intense, focused, hitting it hard, all that kind of stuff. And if you're doing all of that, then, yeah.

That you can use the extra money to go either direction, but you're still going to end up paying it. So all it does is it slows down the speed of the one thing. If you if you have a bigger payment on the and speak to the details.

I've heard this from you before. You know, forbearance sounds like, oh, what a break, what a relief. But if you don't look at the fine details, you could get yourself in a really sticky situation where maybe it's actually there's lots of lots of levels to this, to where it's not true forbearance if it's going to be a penalty later on.

Yeah, well, back during covid, you know, people were offered forbearance on their mortgage. And what that meant was don't pay a couple of payments. And people are like, oh, I don't know.

I was like, no, no, it's coming. It's just coming in September. And you're going to pay them all and catch them all up or they're going to do this thing called foreclosure. That goes right after forbearance. So, yes. Yeah, bad plan. So no, you don't kick the can down the road unless you have to or unless you're just really dialed in and you're going to use this to your advantage. But I would not use the word forbearance in most cases to purposefully get behind.

It's how to get caught up is what it really means. That's what the purpose of it is. When you do a forbearance on a mortgage in a traditional situation, that means you're like four payments behind and they agree to a payment and a half for eight months, eight halves. The four holes catches you up in addition to your regular payment. That's a forbearance I catch up plan. And I'm not talking about, like mayonnaise. I'm catching up.

Right. So, you know, that's what you're looking for and that's what the word really means. And so just beware, because any time somebody starts talking about you skipping payments or anything else, they don't get that money, huh? That's what you need to remember.

Again, open phones, a triple eight eight two five five two two five. Jack is with us. Jack in Oregon. What's up, Jack?

Hey, guys. I've got a question for you that will seem ridiculous to other listeners, but it's real to me. I'm thirty seven. My wife and I just entered baby steps seven. Yay! Wow. Yes. Give me your mouse.

You're one hundred percent debt free. You're rockin retirement and you're thirty seven. You're a rock star, man. Yeah.

And that's it. And it is exciting. And our net worth is just north of a million dollars so we're doing great.

So good.

But here's here's the struggle we face now. You know, mathematically with our income and with the savings, this will turn easily into several million by the time it's it's time to retire. Ten or twenty. I struggle with this. Yeah. I struggle with a sense of purpose now. It almost feels like I'm working for nothing. I don't know what to do it.

You know, I've got more money than I could possibly use when you're when you're working on paying off a house. That's a motivator. Yeah, everything's gone. Right. So now, you know, writing checks for charity, that doesn't it doesn't always satisfy me. It's just a check. I don't see the end result. I'm leaving a ton of money to my kids. It doesn't feel satisfying. I feel like that just puts them in the same problem I'm facing right now.

We don't spend the time that doesn't satisfy me to spend. So I some trouble when I saw you have discovered that money is not the answer to happiness.

Yeah, that's also very cool.

Right. But for you. So now what? Well, I'll tell you, Jack, the reason you feel the way you feel is because you're realizing that we were created to work. Genesis Chapter two is where we first realized this, that we don't work to live. We live to work. In other words, let me say it a different way. We were created to contribute. And what you're longing for right now is some work to get up every day and to go do something that matters to you.

And this is where the answer is to your future. You're thirty seven. Money's not an object. When people call Ken Coleman show and they get a little stuck, there's the age old question. It's not unique to me. And I just simply say, if money did not matter, I guaranteed you success. You could not fail and you just get to go do something tomorrow that matters to you. That's when it breaks for people and they begin to say, well, I want to help people.

So I'm going to give you three questions that you and your wife need to answer. And this is going to give you a lot of clues. OK, here they are. Number one, who are the people you most want to help? Just think of those people. Now, what problem or challenge or desire do they have and then what are the solutions to that need, that desire when you begin to get the answers to those questions and you match it up with what you do very well, this is what you bring to the marketplace, the skill to actually bring the solution.

Dave, the answers are in there and there's multiple things they can do.

That's what's exciting. And change your charitable giving where you get your hands dirty down in the giving, where you meet the people and it'll change the know change the visceral reaction your gut has. Your spirit has to charitable generosity. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. At Takeover's, we believe a great pair of cowboy boots won't just make you look taller, they'll give you the confidence boost that'll make you feel taller, too. At Takeover's, we make traditional cowboy boots for men and women that look great and feel great so you can walk into a big meeting or out on the town with comfort and confidence.

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You're listening to the best of the Dave Ramsey Show. We'll be back soon with more live content. Paying off debt is smart, saving and investing is smart, but there's one key to winning with money that's often forgotten, and that is that while you're playing offense, you also have to play defense. You have to protect your family from emergencies. There are 10 kinds of insurance coverage that are good that you really might need based on where you are, which life stage you're in.

And we've built a tool to show you what coverage you actually need to add, drop or adjust. It's free. It only takes five minutes. We'll even rank your to do list by importance and email it to you so you can get your plan in place fast. It's called the coverage checkup. And I mentioned to you that it's free. It could be the most important five minutes you spend today. Donald from our Facebook community wrote, For anyone who not completed this check up, do it now.

You never know when something will happen and you never want to leave your family in a bad situation. So get out your phone. Text check up to thirty three 789, take the five minute free coverage checkup, text checkup two three three seven eight nine. Dr. John Boloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Olivia is with us in Orlando. Hi, Olivia.

How are you? I'm good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can we help?

I'm twenty three years old and I wanted to start paying rent and buy a house. I don't I don't want to go into debt for buying it. So I have a roommate that has helped me with my mortgage, but I don't want to keep paying me and a lot of the houses I like, I don't have quite enough to put 20 percent down, but my parents offered to help me if now is the time to buy or I should with their help, or if I should wait and save a little bit more, how are they going to help you?

What's that mean? So they would help me there right now, I must say, but they're going to give you some money. Yeah, they would give me enough to be able to put 20 percent down. I'm not alone. Well, I would probably want to pay them back, and I would probably not want you to pay them back.

I don't want I don't want you to be in debt to your parents. It ruins all corners of your relationship when you owe them money, right?

Yeah, that was kind of I mean, they've offered to give it to me. OK, what to do?

Are they control freaks? Are they going to hold it over your head that they gave you this? Yeah, that was a yes, that's a super yes, that's right, yeah. OK, so OK, how old are you? How old are you? Twenty three. How much money you make. I make sixty nine thousand a year.

Good for you. OK, so in order to put 20 percent down, how long will it take you if you do it on your own.

I probably have to save up maybe like another year. OK, what's all that? Not that I want. I mean, interest rates are good, and I don't know if it would be a good time, but I understand I want to go to Grand Cayman, but they're not opening it.

They closed it for four coronavirus and just told me I can't come.

Yeah. So, you know, you want all the things you don't have the money, you know, the ability to do it.

That's why I want a new car too. Is going to take me a year. I'll take you about a year. Be nice. Yeah, but you can't go get one today because you work here. And if you get, if you get a car payment, I will fire you. That's right. So there you go.

So we're in this together, right together. Me make a plan and for a year, stick to it. Get that 20 percent and you're going to be glad you did. You don't want to owe your parents money. That just complicates your relationships.

And if they if you can't get a gift from them and it not be screwy, God forbid you take a loan from them.

Yeah, at least a loan from a bank has rules associated to it when they're from your parents who they don't question your biscuit recipe like Mom does.

So, yeah, I'm it sounded like the way you paused, there was a lot in that, um, that came out there that you really need to just do this on your own.

And that's cool. And there's no harm in that. And you're going to feel really good about yourself a year from now because you set a goal and you progressively incrementally attacked it and hit it.

And, you know, buying a house at twenty four versus buying a house at twenty three has never kept someone from being a millionaire. Right.

Oh, you wasted that entire year. That just doesn't come up mathematically. It just doesn't work. OK, so you're fine. You got plenty of time. You're not asking me if you should wait 15 years to buy a house. You're asking me if you should wait 12 months because that way you can do it on your own. And I would help me with this.

Dave, there is the interest rates have fallen through the floor. Yep. Right. Yep. And so there I'm hearing this pressure people my age that all you got to got to go like just always has been.

And I remember when I bought my first house in the early 2000s at six percent and I was complaining because my buddy got a five and three quarters and an adult with us said, y'all shut your mouth. Was my first house was in seventy eight and 12 or 15 or 18 percent.

Seventy seven. It was twelve.

And so is it wrong thinking to think, you know what, they're at two point two five. They're ridiculous. The other side of that fulcrum is when it goes up, people will stop moving so much. The prices of houses will there's going to be a balance there. Exactly. And if you end up buying a house in a year and it's back up to three and a quarter, a four and a quarter, zippi, you're not getting hosed.

Yeah, you're still one liberty, right. It's not the likelihood of it moving two full percentage points in twelve months. That's catastrophic, right. Historical. Right. You know, and by the way, wasn't twelve percent or something. It was ten. I just remember because I passed my real estate license in September nineteen, 1978, and a month later it went from nine and three quarters to ten for the first time ever. Wow. And people thought it double digit mortgage rates.

That was it. Jesus is coming back. The world is coming to an end. It's apocalyptic. Right. And they were wailing and gnashing of teeth in the real estate business.

And that's it is all over. Inflation is killing us in. Went over to by house again. It proceeded from seventy eight to eighty two to go to eighteen percent right under Jimmy Carter.

Thank you very much. And I'm trying to sell real estate in those days in college, trying to get through school. And then I came out of school. I'm selling houses at fourteen percent fixed. I sold seventy eight houses that year, oh 22 years old. And there were these brand new things that came out if you didn't want to pay fourteen.

They had these new A are in arms adjustable rate mortgages. Nineteen eighty three. Hmm. Twelve percent. Big difference. And then so when it broke back down into nine I'm on the radio by then and I'm going you know I did nine is amazing.

Your spent all the way it houses away back to seventy eight corner show that you know and and now. And then now people are doing. It's just always been this conversation and people have always bought houses.

We could not get people out of the parking lot of this model. The parking lot was jammed in this model set in nineteen eighty three and rates were fourteen because they were down from eighteen. Mm. And there was all this pent up demand of people that hadn't bought. All right. And they're like, oh God. Rates are finally coming back down. The parking lot was so full on Sunday there'd be 60, 80 people coming through the houses at one time.

It was like like something on a movie. Yeah.

You know, and that was at fourteen percent interest. Oh. So you're going to be OK. That's right. You're going be OK. So follow the plan. If it's a two and three year difference in three and six, zippi that that is not going to change your life. What is going to change your life is making good, solid decisions being. He was putting a 15 year fixed in place for the payments, no more than a fourth of your take home pay, putting down a good down payment, avoiding the PMI, which is what she was talking about doing, avoiding the private mortgage insurance with a good 20 percent down on a Fannie Mae loan.

And you've got a plan then to pay off the house. The point is, where are you going to be 10 years after this, not 40 years after if you're not taking out a mortgage for 80 years. Right. You're taking it out for 10 on a 15 year schedule because you're going to pay it off because you're listening to us.

So it's really the interest rate almost becomes irrelevant matter. Pay it off. That's right. Because it's not over that long a period of time where you add up and you guys like six hundred thousand dollars an extra interest.

But because you kept the mortgage for 42 years, you idjit, you don't stay and keep paying the money, get it paid off, which is what a living will do.

That's exactly right. Yeah, sure. Her mortgage is a temporary thing. It's a passing through thing. And that's the only reason I don't yell at people about getting a mortgage like I do a car payment or something else. Is that but you're right. There's this perception. And going back to a little history lesson, there is good for folks to remember that, you know, if a quarter of a percent runs a real estate deal, you shouldn't have been in it in the first year to not buy that house.

You already couldn't afford it. It's the old joke. You know, if you have to ask how much you can afford it, you know, that kind of crap. But it really is a little bit of that. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Well, we all have enough on our plates, right? The last thing we need is to not get a good night's sleep. Think about how effective you're going to be during the day if you can't even think clearly because you didn't actually arrest.

That's one of the reasons I've been recommending Tufte and Neidl. My family has their mattresses and they start as low as three hundred fifty dollars plus you can try it out. One hundred nights risk free, go to Taesan Dotcom to pick yours out. They ship it to your door for free. That's T in dotcom. You're listening to the best of the Dave Ramsey Show. We'll be back with more live content. Chris Hogan Ramsey personality, is my co-host today here on The Dave Ramsey Show at the beginning of this year, buying your first home may have been one of your top goals.

20 twenty did not exactly shape up the way we all expected, did it turned into a dumpster fire if your plans got sidetracked.

But home ownership still the right move. You may want to talk to a real high quality real estate agent. A lot of areas real estate is doing very well, as a matter of fact. Just plain out, straight up booming.

And you need somebody in your corner to help guide you so you don't get emotional and pay too much or get ripped off in some kind of overbidding situation or something like that. Go to Dave Ramsey, dotcom agent. Find a trusted agent, an agent that we recommend endorsed local provider for your real estate. Dave Ramsey, dotcom slash agent. Ethan is in Detroit. Hi, Ethan. Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show.

Hi. How are you doing? Great, man. How can we help?

I work for an automotive maker and manufacturer. I'm an engineer there. And one of the company's perks or benefits, I guess, that they offer is a employee lease option. Right. So I. I can get a vehicle. It's a one year lease. Yep. I'm 110 miles up with insurance included. Yep. And repairs and repairs and maintenance are included. Tires are included. Everything's included. Yeah. And prior to working there I was paying around 200 insurance.

So the idea of that and I'm debating.

So my current payment is around five Seska and I actually brought my wife in on the program recently and debating if that's even worth it to carry that the 40 50 is the lease on your employment, on your employee deal.

Yeah. OK, you're driving and you're driving a nice car. Yeah, it is. It's a truck.

Yeah, but you didn't take you didn't take the cheaper chicken. You got the big dog.

Well, because this is as Ford it says here as the crow flies.

Oh, OK. All right.

Well, I've looked at several of these. Nissan is here in our neighborhood. I've looked at the Ford one and I've looked at the GM. I don't know, the Chrysler one off the top of my head. But most of these have nothing to do with a traditional car unless it's an employee benefit program. You're basically got a car completely furnished, Miles, everything, insurance, everything's built in at five fifty. You can't touch that truck for that.

That truck goes down five hundred and fifty dollars a month in value if you owned it.

OK, and you got insurance and maintenance and gas and everything. They include gas, don't they? And some of them. This one doesn't. OK, but it's got everything does maintenance included. They're all mine. So car breaks, you just take it in. So this is not a this is an employee benefit. It's not like a typical lease, not your evil car lease program. Right. That the other side of your company sells.

But this is a great deal for you, Ethan. Well, you drive and I like around.

Yeah, it's around the world, but, yeah, I thought you were I thought, because usually it's not five fifty, it's usually like three hundred when I'm running into these things. But you got you know, you're driving a freakin seventy thousand dollar truck. That's the thing. So good for you. You cannot touch that truck for that kind of money. It's six grand a year and everything's turnkey. If I worked there, I would do that deal.

This is not a finance plan. This is not a lease. This is a simple employee benefit and it is a killer employee benefit.

Do it. I guess where I'm kind of debating is so my wife is on it, too. She has a wrangler. Yeah. And I'm wondering if it's worth to have two vehicles on that or try to get something cheaper off.

Let me try this again. You cannot operate a vehicle for three times what you're paying. OK. Think about it.

Ad insurance, maintenance, depreciation, loss in value, right? Yeah.

Put those three numbers in the calculator, do the truck. You're driving it. Take fifteen hundred fourteen hundred dollars a month to replace it. OK, because of stupid things going down in value more than you're paying a month, not counting the maintenance in the insurance now.

And the same is true for all of you. Now the other question is, you know, can you afford are you are you biting off too big a bite of the apple? Here is your household income support these payments. But the bottom line is, if you if they support these payments and you were to go buy this vehicle, you're going to have 3.x in the vehicle, what you're paying. OK, so it's a great deal.

Do as many of them as you need to do as long as you can handle the cash flow out of your income, which is unbelievable.

So would a situation like this, Dave, if you were to leave the company, you're just turning in the vehicle. Yeah, you lost it.

You lost your employee benefits. You lost it. And you do need to flip it every year because they're flipping these things out. You know, it's a small percentage of their total production going to the employees. Right. But the Nissan plan is very similar right down here on the road from us. The the Ford Plan is very similar. I've seen those at BMW. The other one's got I've got one that's pretty similar to the guys over in South Carolina that listen to us over there at the Beamer plant.

It's I got the same option of driving a stinking Beemer for a third, a fourth of what it would cost you anyone else.

Right. To buy it outside of that employee.

Listen, everybody out there that's listen real quick. We're talking about an employee benefit program. Not Natally, not a lease. Yeah. I don't want don't don't blow up my inbox with this. It's an employee benefit plan, which is why people are able to do that. So it's part of their recruiting. It's part of the benefits that they're given to their team members.

So just wanted to clarify that in his case on that Laramie, it's worth of the employee benefit. The value to him is around a thousand dollars a month because it'd be fifteen hundred to replace what he's doing for five hundred. Oh, yeah.

Whose truck payment without a shadow over that. So that's another twelve thousand dollars a year in income are effectively his Beny package is adding another thousand dollars a year to his value. Again, assuming you can support that level on a truck with your income. We did not ask his household income. I got sidetracked on that. But as Chris said, it's very, very, very smart to say out loud.

We are not saying it's OK to lease a car. This is not leasing a car. This is renting from your employee employer as a benefit. That's all it is. They call it a one year lease, but you can turn it anytime you want, right? I don't even hold you to that on these things. It's very, very good program. Open phones, eight eight eight two five five two two five. Stevens in Tucson I Stephen, what's up?

Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? My my wife and I are currently on baby step number six and we're trying to help the mortgage in about five years. We have about two years left on that and we're doing that by paying an extra two thousand a month. About a week and a half ago. We welcome our first child. Yay, begin saving for college fund. Good. My my question is, can I tackle both baby steps five and six at the same time by reducing that extra mortgage payment.

Yep. To around sixteen hundred and put four hundred in the college savings.

Or as a matter of fact you're supposed to do four or five and six all simultaneously. You're doing four. Right. So you're doing baby step four. Right.

We're ready. Yeah. Yeah. We, we're, we're completed with baby. I mean we're still doing baby stuff for the app and simultaneous you're putting every month you're putting fifteen percent of your income.

Right. Correct. Yeah. Because don't don't tell Mr. Retirement over to my right that you're not doing your retirement. OK, Chris, I'll take a personal.

Yeah. No, you're doing it buddy. You're doing it. And you could even back that down to three hundred a month. And as far as saving for college and keep track in an attack in the house and then think about it, in five years, the mortgage is paid off. You can decide to step it up or you made it decided to add to your family either way. But Stephen, no. Four or five and six there done all at the same time.

Great job. Yeah.

You're doing a really good job. You're paying attention. You're listening to what we're teaching and you're doing it. You're going to and as a result, you're going to have success.

So I'm very, very proud of you. And by the way, folks, once you get past baby step three, you're out of debt.

If your emergency fund in place one, two and three, you do see in sequence four or five and six. You do simultaneously, but you also let your foot off the gas and you're not quite as good, so intense, it's not just beans and rice, rice and beans. You can actually get a steak while you're in the jungle in the restaurant. You can go in the restaurant. I have to wash the dishes, but the the other news of the day, Ramsha.

You're listening to the best of the Dave Ramsey Show. We'll be back with more live Tussaud. Cassie is with us from Massachusetts, I guess. Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show. What's up? Hi, Dave. Are you good? How can we help? We got a little predicament here between me and my husband, so about nine months ago or so, we moved in with my mother in law to save money. She offered for us to stay in her basement for much less than we were spending on rent and we had already downsized.

The biggest issue is that we've found that she's extremely difficult to live with. And my husband's not super great at communication and when it comes to finances. So I feel really, really stuck because he won't really give me you know, this is how much we want to save to get out. There's just really a big lack of communication there when it comes to what do you make income?

Money. She make income. So I'm a stay at home mom. I have two little ones under two and he makes about 60. Gross. Why don't you just move out? That's a good question, I asked him that all the time, you're asking in a way that is why isn't he hearing that question? Well, I have one baby, step two, and we have about 10K in student loan and between the student loan and medical debt, those things are popping up.

Yeah, yeah. Apparently there is the money side. Why isn't he why isn't he answering that question?

I even I don't know. Are you asking the question when you think he wants to? Are you asking the question when you're in a fight or when you're frustrated or you're having breakfast together and you just say, hey man, what's the plan like? Why isn't he answering this question?

I've asked him many, many times, and recently it's blown up into like a fight about it. And now he just doesn't want to talk about it at all. And we have had some conversations about it, but it doesn't really go anywhere. I think where he that is, he kind of wants to he wants to be out of that, wants to have a certain amount down for a house before before we move, which makes sense. But I think living here is really, really stressful as well.

So that is like a big toss up.

Is it more stressful for you because you're staying at home and you don't have to deal with it? Yeah, yeah, I think so.

And so, Dave, you've answered this question for one hundred and fifty years on this show. I can't I can't help. That was a little bit of a boomer joke there.

I can't help but think that your husband's not understanding, not hearing you and you're not aligned with when it comes to values.

Right. He doesn't understand the pain that you're sitting in and like he doesn't understand the emotional cost. You've got to move. You've got to get out of the house.

Yeah, I, I feel that in my car. I really, really feel it in my car. We did take a financial piece this past November after we moved in here and we were like, yes, we're doing the right thing. We moved to save money.

We're never told you. My mother in law's basement, not one time, right?

No, but we thought that moving it gave us the amount of space that we needed for two kids because I was pregnant with our second and we did not have space at the current place that we were. And we were like, oh, this is great, we'll save money for a house. But now it's to the point where I don't think it's worth it anymore. And he's like, but we're still in baby step two.

That's great. But you're into something else. You you you tried something. You went for it. It was it seemed like a cool idea.

It sounded great on the back of a napkin. And now your marriage is suffering for it and you're trusting each other, suffering for it. Your two kids are absorbing your attention. They're absorbing your dysfunction.

And you've got to move, OK?

And you have to speak to him. The only person in this you can control is you. And you have to speak to him in a way that he can hear it and waiting until there's a fight or you say we keep bringing it up, bringing it up the other side, that we're the the negative where there is nagging and nagging.

Somebody never gets somebody. It never gets what you want. And so you've got to find a place where it's getting off site. Well, it's leaving the kids with mother in law and going somewhere and sitting down and saying it's not an if, it's when we move. And I'm about to put a date on a calendar to get my kids out of this thing. And I want you to be a part of this with us. And we've got to come up with a date together and we've got to work on this together.

That's the foundation of us together, decision making.

And for whatever reason, he's not here in it.

Yeah. So if your marriage or his emotional capacity does not allow him to hear you when you don't have children in the room, they're asleep. You're used to the white noise of toddlers, but most people can't concentrate with that crap. So they're asleep.

And you take his two hands and your two hands and you look in his eyes and you say, listen to me carefully. I can't stay here anymore. I'm leaving. So I think we ought to leave this is not OK anymore. And if he can't hear you when you do that and you have to cut through all the clutter of everything because we've talked about this before, guys don't get subtlety. You have to be very direct. Look directly into his eyes.

He has to hear you with no emotion, no side crap. And you go, I'm done. I'm done. I love your mom, but I can't stay here anymore.

And I know we had a goal to try to do this, but it's not working. This is driving me crazy. On a scale of one to 10. This is a 12. The phone.

Yes. The fire alarms are back. And if you can't hear me, we're going to have to sit down with the pastor and begin marriage counseling because I am leaving this place. And he has to here, he has to hear that, and if he can't hear that, then then you've got a pretty dull dude and you got some other issues that other issues in your marriage. Yeah, there's other stuff going on. And so you guys will need to sit down and to begin some marriage counseling to save your marriage because you got other stuff that this is just this is just the symptom.

Then if this is the real problem, then it just you transfer and you go, hey, it's not the baby. Step two, you can do baby step to anywhere. It's just a matter how fast it works, that's all.

And I want to honor the guy who's saying, OK, we've got this plan, we're going to get out of debt. Here's the map. Here's the date. Here's the analytics. Here's the whatever frontal lobe nonsense.

But guys, when you do that, man, you burn up people's souls.

Well, I mean, you can run like that as long as she's running with you.

That's what I mean. But this is this is a situation where she's not running with you anymore. And it's because the mother in law hijacked your plan. And and it was a cute idea. It was cool. It was it was a good idea as long as she was cute.

But I think, you know, I mean, you know, it just doesn't work anymore. And not many people can do that. I know it's hard. Not many people can do that, particularly an Anglo households.

Hispanics are much better at it. Yeah, they're much more family. They love each other.

I don't know I don't know how they deal with it, but they do a better job. That culture does a lot better job with it, but it's much more standard, so to speak.

But Anglos, man, we don't go back home. Well, we just don't we don't let go. Well, well.

And there's another nurse. Mom. Yeah. Good Lord. We've been picking on mom all day today. But anyway, my mom's awesome. Yeah.

Well, so there you go. That's how that works. And so are your friends and whatever else you're there, you keep it up.

Just keep it up. Yeah. You just that guy.

But yeah I think it's the thing is if you can pay a price and you could even put up with her as long as you can see the end of it, you've got to have you got to the finish line, got to a finish line and it's got to be before my emotional tank is completely dry.

That's right. Yeah, I the little thing on the debt dashboard's reading, I got forty six miles left before I'm out of gas and it's blinking at you and that the thing says thirty miles. OK, I think we're going to make it but if it says three hundred miles screw it.

We're going to be out of gas or almost worse when you don't know how far you're going. Yeah that's worse.

Remember the football coach that would say you'd say how long we're going to run?

He'd say, until I get tired while I get tired of watching you, I'd rather know we're going to run one hundred until you throw up a lot. That's all right. Yeah. That guy put it, put it. Put a deadline for you to do something crazy, like they showed up with a lot of pain. If you know one's going to put a deadline on. That's right. It's going to take about thirty seconds. Hold your breath.

And I thought, OK, got. You know, your tone, your tone might change if you come be too much. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Dave Ramsey Show. This episode is over, but if you heard about it, a mint product or service, it didn't have a chance to write it down. Don't worry. We list everything you heard about during this episode in the podcast. Show us or head to Dave Ramsey, dot com.

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