Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollars Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show where that is down. Cash is king in the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Dr. John Boloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today here on the air. Thank you for joining us, America. We're here to talk about your life and your money. The phone numbers, triple eight eight two five five two two five.

That's triple eight eight two five five two two five. So a couple of years ago, we started putting out some small books that are one or two chapters long. We call them Quick Reads. And Anthony O'Neill did one on paying off student loans.

We took the study, the white paper from the millionaire study and turned that into a short, quick read as well with the full white paper. All the statistics and nerd stuff from the study got another one of these somewhere. Who else has got one?

I think those are the only two that I know of. And maybe it seems like there's another one floating around in my mind. But anyway, so, John, Boloney comes on board and we immediately put together this project. It's a quick read, 80 pages long, one of the first couple chapters, three chapters, depending on how long you think a chapter is. But the book is Redefining Anxiety.

It comes out today what anxiety is, what it's not and how to Get Your Life Back.

And a good looking picture on John.

I tell you what, I got that photo and they said this is going to be the cover. And I my first thought was, who's that guy? The photographers and digital editors that we have in this building, they are some Photoshop is amazing. Leave nothing you see on the Internet. And these kids are incredible. And they can make you look nice. They can make you look handsome. Yeah, you do. You look great, man.

So redefining anxiety, what it is, what it's not and how to get your life back. So if you're suffering from anxiety or, you know, someone that is especially if someone feels like it's kind of a death sentence, like it's chronic, like you're going to have it forever, like you're broken and this is just the way you are.

Yeah, right. That's inaccurate.

That is wrong. That's right. And that's the thesis of this quick read. So be sure to pick it up. There is a light at the end of the tunnel and no, it is not.

An oncoming train. So there you go, check it out. It's Dave Ramsey Dotcom or posting, of course, at Amazon and other places as well, that great books are sold only ten dollars. Defining anxiety. Congratulations, your first Ramsey publication.

I appreciate that. Thank you. Very cool. Very cool. Good stuff. Open phones, a triple eight eight two five five two two five. Dillons in Tucson, Arizona. Hot Delane, how are you? Dr. Devi says, taking my call. Sure, what's up? So my my fiancee and I are both twenty four years old. I'm on baby step four and she's currently on baby step two. She has about twenty eight thousand in debt.

We're getting married at the end of April. We have enough cash to cover the wedding. And then I'm going to have a little bit left over to throw on her debt after the wedding. Some of my current emergency fund. Great plan. Yeah. And then after after the wedding, after the debt, we plan on starting step three, saving up for a house. So my question is, in the meantime, should I continue investing my 15 percent from now up until the wedding, at which point I would posit that so we can pay down debt or should I pause it now and then just pile up as much cash as I can right now to forgive the debt after the wedding?

Man, you're on fire.

Is your critical thinking skills are incredible. Those were questions I was not asking at age 24 to leave. Good for you, darling.

I'm trying. I don't even know. I'm not going there.

Yeah, man, seriously, that's awesome. Now, I would pause and pile up cash until you've got enough cash to cover the wedding. Her debt after the wedding, baby step three of an emergency fund and turn into three. Be pretty hard. So, yeah, I'd be doing nothing on retirement right now. You need a bigger pile of cash as much as you can get together, dude. And you are really got this thing dialed in. I'm so proud of you.

Very well done.

Is she on board with you on all this? She is she's not you know, I'm a nerd. She's a free spirit and I'm obviously a way bigger fan of you guys than she is at the moment, but she's on board. We're actually getting ready to take you at our church at the beginning next month. Wow. Great free marriage counseling. Yes, absolutely. So we're just kind of in the planning stages right now. We're going to get on the same page and all that.

Yeah, well, that's outstanding. Congratulations to. So where did you learn how to do all this? Well, you know, you read the name has always been well known to me around the church, you know, my church always had a few classes and all the my parents and all the other grown ups would always take it. So I knew about you once. I graduated college almost two years ago, and I was getting ready to start my big boy job.

That's what I kind of really started listening to and getting into it just because the amount of money I was going to be making was honestly intimidating. And, you know, I was kind of scared of having all that money and not really having a plan for so much school.

So basically, you're a financial piece baby. And so when you start having some money, you said, I got to do this the grown up way, I'm going to jive and learn how to do it.

Very cool. Exactly. Very cool.

I love it. Well done, Dylan. Well done. That's generational stuff right there, man.

That's that's a legacy turnover. That's right. That's fun. I like the second gen third generation better. That's cool. Second ginger kids, third chance grandkids, known how great grandkids are going to be. I have been nicer to their parents, so. All right.

Steve's with us in Seattle. Hi, Steve.

How are you? I'm doing well. How are you guys? Better than I deserve. What's up? They take my call, so this year, boys looked at me and said, get rid of all the debt to pay off all the debt we will have by January. Wow. We didn't have any any personal debt. It was all wrapped up in our business about three hundred grand, roughly. You just Krushchev in a year.

Yeah, the last few years we've been invest, reinvest and just put it right back into the business, plus we had, you know, obviously quite a bit of debt. So this year we put everything right back into it to get rid of it. Good. OK, how can I help today? Full of I got a handful of just small little investment properties. Now I'm trying to figure out how, because I've had a plan in the past of how I would like to develop these.

But everything involved taking out a loan and I'm not sure how to do it now. Cash flow, I don't make you cash flow 300 grand.

Yeah, but if I was going to build an industrial park and you're talking, you know, a couple of million easy know a couple hundred grand, aren't you glad you weren't doing that last year?

And this is why we don't borrow money, the number one real estate person that goes broke or developers. That's because they go on the hook for millions and the market turns and it always turns and it leaves them holding the bag and they're screwed. It's the number one cause of real estate bankruptcy developers, number one category. So I've developed some property, but I've done it with cash. It means I have to go slower. I have to wait. I have to do it by degrees or in phases.

You don't have to do millions of dollars at once. You can do but three hundred thousand dollars Street and put it in and whatever and get started, sell off a lot and take that lot money and then move on to the next thing. And you just do it by degrees and by increments. You're right. It is an interesting intellectual challenge to do through the brain shift the way you're having to do it in the way I had to do it several years ago.

But I've never lost money as a result since then. Huh. You wouldn't trade your education for anything, but what about your student loan debt? Well, that's got to go and splash financial can help splash financial helps you save money on your student loans, period. They give you access to the best network of lenders and the technology to quickly get the best refinance offers that suit your needs. Take advantage of historically low rates with splash financials. Low rate guarantee you can't go wrong.

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John, our question today's question comes from Chad in Utah. My wife has been diagnosed with dissociative identity disorder, otherwise known as multiple personalities. Too often when she goes shopping, some of her younger identities come up and she ends up spending money that we just don't have. Then she gets home and feels bad about her purchases, but is too ashamed to take things back. We are in baby step two and working toward getting our debts paid off, but it's going extraordinarily slow because of this.

My question is what advice would you have to help curb curb the spending?

Aside from simply taking over the money, I just don't know what else to do. You got to simply take over the money.

Yep. You've got to take the debit card out of your hands. You'll have to when she is in what I would call when she's got her central state, her central identity is running the show. You've got to make sure that she turns over all of her spending and your job is now to go to the store. You're working with someone who's not fully well. And until she can integrate some of that, and that's a hard, long process, you're going to be running the show when it comes to the money.

Yeah, she is not. If we were to if if, say, someone has dementia as an example, they are of diminished capacity, right. From a legal standpoint. And so you could take your grandpa into the judge with the docs light letters and say, grandpa also have diminished capacity. We need to take over and take you know, they appoint a guardian ad litem and you don't ask someone who is of diminished capacity to make quality decisions for themselves.

Right. And and so from a legal standpoint, you don't have to do that legally in this case, but you literally take over someone's finances for their own good. That's right. Not for your good, but because they're not capable of doing it in their current state.

Hopefully there's some work that can be done and this is not a permanent thing. But but basically, you're she's got a mental illness and you're caring for a wife who has a mental illness.

That's right. And I would recommend Chad, I recommend you get a friend or an accountability partner that will walk with you because she may not be able to carry that load right now. And that's the season y'all are in.

And you may be in this road for a long time. Right. This is a very, very rare disorder, despite how much attention it gets on TV and whatnot. And you may be in it for a while. So get somebody you can walk along with you that will cheer you on, that will be frustrated with you and will help you make good decisions. But yeah, this is your this is your your road to home.

I mean, I'll give you another one, OK? Something as simple as I've worked with over the years, someone who's recovering from a gambling addiction. You can they can't touch money, right. Until they've got six months clean and then they can only touch certain amounts and then they got another six months clean and then they can only touch certain amounts. And then, you know, when you got two years clean, we could talk about having joint accounts again.

But otherwise, I'm just going to take care of you. Right. Because when you touch money, you can't do it right. And so it's not good for you. It's not good for us. And so you're expecting something of her that she does not have the strength and capacity to deliver, which is called self-discipline. That's right. And so you've got to step in and do that, very interesting. Let me ask you this when I read this, because I know nothing about this.

I mean, other than I know what this is. But, you know, from the three psych classes I had in my life. But, you know. But how often is something like this?

Misdiagnosed significantly, massively, massively true dissociative identity disorder is super, super rare, and it's just it's a splintering of your identity. It's less about you've got different people living inside of you and more you've got identities.

Usually it stems from really significant trauma from childhood and you've got different identities that will rise up and take care of different things, like scary moments and joyful moments.

And there may be something around money or stores or responsibility that this jacket life reverts back.

And usually there's one that's a quarterback. There's some interesting stuff, man. You can look at the brain images change, blood pressure, changes in true diagnostics.

It's it's really bizarre, but it's very it's incredible, but it's very, very rare right now.

So maybe not in this situation, but maybe if someone thought they had that, it could be that it's almost like we're trying to give something a label where I'm just refusing to control myself occasionally.

Usually if you've got it's just the younger me. I need a victim. Yeah.

If if I would go see somebody, I'd go see two different people who diagnosed me with this.

I would not. Absolutely. 100 percent.

You can't self-diagnosis no. Right. And sometimes dealing with trauma and I can't undiagnosed sitting here obviously either.

And that's what I'm trying to do in their situation.

I just, you know, part of part there's a little part of me that wonders, you know, the younger identity. I just I've heard so many people have so many excuses over the out on why they will not control their spending. That's exactly right. And I'm not saying that's the case with her, but I just I'm always leery. That's right.

And. Again, in these rare rare moments, yeah, the working together, working together means you're taking over, right?

Yeah, yeah. You're just because you're just out of diminished capacity. That's right. That's different than I refused to.

Or it makes me scared when it reminds me when I was a kid.

And that's no different. That's a different different. There's a difference in a 10. On a two.

Yeah. This you're talking your heart rate changes your blood pressure. I've seen somewhere in vocal chords reshift. Some are smoking and some don't smoke. I mean, it's you're talking dramatic and it's super rare. And like I said, if if someone I love was diagnosed with this, I would be on the phone with another doctor immediately to get a completely new work up to see if this was. This is accurate. True.

Very interesting. Yeah. Yeah. It probably shows up in the movies more than in real life. Way more in the movies. That's right. OK, yeah.

Open phones at eight eight two five five two two five.

And by the way, just in case some of you misheard that in neither one of us were saying that is the case with Chad's wife. Absolutely. It's just a discussion because this kind of thing comes up. Behaviors and mental illnesses and diagnosis is, you know, bipolar is the one.

I do get a lot. We get that a lot. And that's much more frequent. Yeah.

And today we're living in a world where you can only get reimbursed from insurance with the diagnosis. And so there is a there is a tendency, there is an incentive to give a diagnosis, which means get labeled, get labeled.

We live in a world where we overnight, literally ten years ago, we all got access to everybody's information without the training that goes with deciphering some of that information. And so we all have become armchair quarterbacks when it comes to what you have. What I have pop psychologist.

And then the third is we are all looking for a why, like we talked about in the last segment, why we can't just grind out and do the hard, small steps that is every day. And you take all three of those together. And, yeah, you get diagnosis all over the place.

You get people diagnosing themselves, prescriptions issued all over, just like their Tic Tacs.

And then look around. We got a mess. Right. But that doesn't undermine there are very real psychological challenges that people experience.

Absolutely they do. There's no question this we're living in a tent, not trying to be cold in that room.

I didn't hear that at all. Yeah, but I know I'm and I'm just saying neither one of us are saying that about his wife because we don't know in that situation. But if that is truly what's going on and it sounds like it is, then yes, you cannot she cannot handle money until she has a level of healing past that.

And if you're you know, if you have someone that's dealing with gambling addiction, they cannot touch money. If they're dealing with a pornography addiction, they cannot touch money. Matter of fact, if they're dealing with an addiction, they just can't touch money because addicts, 100 percent of addicts are broke. Eventually, it's the gasoline for their fire. Right.

Eventually they're going to spend money on their thing, whatever it is they're addicted to, to the point they destroy their family in themselves eventually. There are no such thing as rich addicts that remain rich, who remain rich. That's right. Eventually they're going to snort their thing, their fortune away, or, you know, it goes from porn to prostitutes or whatever. And, you know, gambling is pretty quick. You can run through the money with gambling, really open up your computer and you can go through about a hundred thousand dollars in twenty minutes.

There's always someone on a street corner to give you some more, right? Oh, yeah, absolutely. There's though there's a you know, the Internet will hook you up. I mean, and we're now seeing the fastest growing addiction in our offices for financial counselling. Is porn really second is gambling because of Internet access? That's right. Driven it through the roof. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage, J.R. and Kylie are with us.

Hey, guys, how are you? Great. Doing great, Dave. Welcome. Welcome. So you're here to do a debt free scream? Yes, we are. How much have you paid off? Two hundred sixty six thousand dollars. 711 dollars and ten cents.

My goodness. How long did this take? Four years. Two months and 17 days. Plus or minus a little Storck mode in there. So we have a nine month old daughter. Love it. She's back in Nebraska. So wonderful.

Very cool. And your range of income during the four years?

We started out at about 78000 and now we're up to 115. Very good. But you do for a living.

I'm in logistics and transportation and I do trade association management. So we just went through the MS on leadership. Oh, good to go.

Very good. Were you here in person on the street. We're here. Yeah. OK, great. Very good. Well, thank you for coming. Yeah, very funny.

So two hundred sixty seven thousand over four years you pay off your house, we.

Well, you know well we've about 24000 was cars, 30000 with or No. 30000 with credit cards and then about 80000 was student loans.

And then yeah we had 130000 on our mortgage and we had talked kind of about moving back home and opportunity came up. We have a really small town, so we sold our house and we bought our house with cash.

All right. Very cool. Long answer. Yeah, we did. How about a little gyration to get there?

Yeah, OK, very cool.

I love paying cash. Was definitely like people like what are you doing. This is what we need that we're for sure. We're sure this is the right move. So. Yeah. Wow.

So what's the house worth that you just bought. And we bought it for eighty and it's down to the studs right now so it needs a little love, definitely desperate need of drywall. But once we're done, a couple just sold around the area, so about 130 to 150. Excellent.

How old are you to. I'm 31. About to be 32, 28. And you paid for house? Yes, we do.

You're so weird. Every other man.

Way to go, you guys. So what did the what did the the folks in the mortgage process tell you as you were, you know, your realtor. So we're going to buy this with cash. Then you went to closing with cash, wrote a check. Do people look at you weird? A little bit, yeah.

People I think people are like, make sure you borrow a little bit more so you can cover your renovations. And we were like, no, we got to do the baby steps. We have to make sure we have enough for baby step three. We got to make sure we can pay cash. We have to make sure we can afford to renovate it. And so we kind of just really made sure we had a plan so that we weren't jumping ahead or getting ahead.

So we did.

Baby, you had a plan. Yeah. So I told you you were weird. And she's definitely the planner of us too, so I love it.

You both seem like a very precise couple. The numbers you gave, we're down to the to the to the hundredth, right. Yeah. What do you all do for fun.

Oh well, when we're not paying off debt, we're tearing up tax plaster and laugh and travel. Huascar football. Yeah. Yeah.

Back and forth in Nashville. A lot like. Yeah, yeah. You just come to Nashville for fun. Yeah. Come see you guys.

Way to go guys. So I mean you've been on quite a journey. We have. Have you even breathed it in that you're a hundred percent debt free.

Yeah, it's taken a little while to kind of get used to, but you know, I was like the paycheck start coming in and we don't have the mortgage or the loan payments to pay. It's like what? Almost like we have so much margin in our budget. What do we do with all that money?

Really? So the budgeting process is a little bit different to kind of get used to that, but it's. Yeah, it's. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. Way to go.

I think the biggest thing for us, like just going into work and like we both enjoy our jobs but just going into work and knowing we're choosing to be there, we're not feeling the pinch of I got to get this paycheck. I got it. I have to make ends meet like we choose to go to our jobs every day. And you're not trapped, right? We just know that we're there and we want to be there. And I think it makes us better employees, too.

Yeah, it absolutely.

We we coordinate the class and we're doing one right now. And we had less than to last night about dumping debt. And Dave, you have that part about like you're walking out like, where are you going?

I don't have any payments. So we can definitely relate to that. Yeah.

As it hit you yet that your nine month old daughter will have none of these experiences, won't have that stress, those late night pacing around your house. She won't deal with that. She's going to have a totally new family tree because of the work you did.

Yeah, that's something that I kind of thought about a lot throughout the process, too, when we first got pregnant and then when she's here because like as a kid, you know, our family wasn't very financially set. So my childhood was not as as good as I want it to be. So hers is going to be definitely way better. That's incredible.

I think just seeing her and having her around just like gave us that push to kind of like really go after it to know, like, we we don't want to have to constantly feel this. All the time or say no, all the time, so no one else. So later going to live and give like no one else. All right.

I love it. Why? Oh, you guys, you're so you're leading a financial piece class. Our fourth one. OK. Wow. So what started the whole journey four years ago that I ask you that already?

Well, it started about five years ago. I was going on a trip up to Canada on a fishing trip up to Canada with some buddies. And we drove about 14 hours from Lincoln up to Canada. And the driver who controls the radio was also a big fan of yours. So we got about 14 hours of Dave Ramsey. So we coined it as the Ramsey road trip.

Now, I don't want to go on that trip. I've listened to 14 straight hours of my boss, and it's a lot of they jumped out of that truck, though, like we can sell the boat, we can sell our guns, we can sell our truck, we can sell what can we sell? I was like, what is this? Where did you guys go? I thought you were on a fishing trip.

Yeah, she kind of thought it was a racket at first. She's like, I got my own gal that I get my financial advice from. And then about a year later when we got married and kind of decided, yeah, that's when we get on track.

So one of your first order of business and maybe just dive into this plan after the honeymoon phase, we got back and yeah.

Took a couple of we started the spreadsheet.

Yeah. Oh, that is from the planner begins the plan, the budget meetings.

So I get on two years. So who were your biggest cheerleaders?

I think leading the class really gave us a lot of accountability. I was we took the class. We had just a shout out to Nick Wagner. He was our coordinator and he's just done so much for our family in the last year. Yeah. It's just been so helpful. And so that was really helpful for us and accountability wise to just like have that nine weeks of just really getting after it, but then coordinating the class like you have to you have to do what you're what you're coordinating, what the boss says, and you have to live that out and people are listening.

So teaching the class really helped us. And we had so many class members that really rallied behind us and just just really told us, like, you guys are doing great. This is awesome. We can't wait to get to where you're at. And that gave us a lot of accountability in our church in Kansas City where we lived before. It was amazing.

So our church family was huge. And we. Which church where you can see Christ community, the downtown campus. Yeah. OK, very cool. Very cool. Good for you guys. Well done. Well done.

Well we've got a copy of Chris Hoggins book for you every day. Millionaires', you know the drill.

It's always the that's the next chapter in your story and you've proven that you know how to do this. You have paid for house for twenty eight years old. Just shut up. I mean, my gosh, this is amazing. I'm so proud of you. All your heroes.

Thank you so very well done. So very well done. You know, your next chapter is to be every day millionaires. That's the next chapter in your story. It doesn't end here.

I got out of debt. So that exactly right. So that is what's important.

One of the classes that we had played was during the marching KC Kansas City classes. Yeah, that was a very cool to kind of be a part of like the citywide movement. Yeah. And we talked about that a lot, too. Like the feeling of peace for me is just having so much margin.

And so, yeah, that's what that that campaign was called. Margin. Yeah. Yeah. Randy Frazier, the pastor up there, got that started as a friend of mine. Yeah. Well done, you guys. Very, very, very well done. All right.

Here it is, J.R. and Kylie Lincoln, Nebraska, two hundred sixty seven thousand dollars paid off for years and two months, 78000 to 115 income. Count it down.

Let's hear a debt free scream. Three, two, one word did.

Wow. Oh, that's so cool, man. And the math on this 32 years old making 115. Yeah. You know where they're going to be at 42. Whether or not they're going to be at 62, it's tens of millions of dollars, right?

I mean, they're are going to be. Wow, what a deal. What an impressive young couple. It's incredible, guys. And if you're listening out there, maybe that's the first time you've ever heard this. It's your turn. You can you can do this. You can do this. I'm talking to you right there to you. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Folks, if you're like most people in America, your car has gotten a little dustier this year, some car companies have already started giving credits for about 15 percent of your premium.

Now, obviously, if you're confident you're paying the lowest possible price, go out and take the credit. But if you're not confident, don't settle for a skimpy 70 dollars. You might be missing out on as much as seven hundred dollars savings, which is most people who work with indorse, local provider for car insurance with us, people we endorse for that. They shop around among several different companies, get you the best deal, the average savings of seven hundred dollars.

Wow. So have somebody shopped for you. Text auto two three, seven, eight, nine. That's auto two three three seven, eight, nine. Another important thing that I forgot to mention earlier is that we are giving away 500 dollars a week between now and Christmas with a 5000 dollar grand prize giveaway in the Ramsey Christmas giveaway.

If you're looking for life changing gifts, check it out. The famous ten dollar sale is at the store. You do not have to do a purchase of any kind to register for the 500 dollar giveaway. But the ten dollar total money makeover books are there. John Delany's brand new quick read, Redefining Anxiety is only ten Bucks, and all the other bestsellers that we've had are all there for ten dollars.

So in order to win, get some cash and even save some money by getting some deals on these books and other things that we have.

Dave Ramsey, Dotcom Slash Giveaway Jak's with us from Salt Lake City. Hey, Jake, welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show.

Hi, Dave and Dr. John. How's it going? Great. How can we help? So I've been working in the labor industry, building, producing concerts, trade shows and other live events. I don't know, what, 18. Oh, my God. And I'm 80 or so. I'm 28 now. And I've been trained three years of on the job training, but I'm getting married next month and I have no income right now. And so I'm trying to see what advice you guys have for restarting with a new career.

Huh? Well, you need to because, I mean, I think live events will be back someday, but I don't know when, I don't know anything apparently based on my predictions for this last year. But I mean, we are doing some events, but we're one of the few companies in the world that are and they're very small. And we're doing a lot of streaming stuff, of course. But that's more like video production than it is doing live events.

So you're right. If yeah, if you were marrying my daughter, I would say get a new career, right?

Yeah. For now anyway.

What a joker. You just grindin something out right now. Are you delivering or are you just putting it together? Are you making a living right now?

So I've been working for an amusement park that I worked for right out of high school, but our season ended the first week of November. So now I'm to the point where even that income's gone. So now I need to see what I'm doing.

What do you want to do, man? That's a hard question because, you know, I've been for 10 years, I've been doing that, so trying to find something else where in what I've worked so hard to build, that's really difficult.

So I'm going to let Dave handle the answer to the career part of it. I want you to make sure you don't miss the opportunity to mourn this and put a period at the end of it if you're actually going to change careers, otherwise it's going to hang on you and it's going to drag on you. And there's something about having a process, about just stopping getting a couple of people together and talking about how great it was and putting an end to it.

Otherwise, it's just going to haunt you and write it up and burn it in the fire pit in the backyard. Make sure you mourn it. It sucks, man. I wish there was a nicer way to say it and to cheer you on and say it'll be back. We don't know, man. We just don't know and make sure you mourn it before you transition. And then you can look at this as an opportunity to go do something that you had burning away and deep inside of you or something different.

Or you may have to grind it out for a while.

OK, so if you're like our live event team, oh, you've developed some skills that are transferable. One thing is, is that you know how to.

Change and make new decisions very quickly to a new end, because you run into the unknown frequently, you roll up on a place and you're supposed to have an event go a certain way.

And all of a sudden there are 73 obstacles that were not in the contract that are thrown in the way, whether it's difficult people or a difficult venue in the loading dock and what it was supposed to be, the lighting tree wouldn't where it was supposed to be, whatever it is.

And there's a lot of fast decisions and quick decisions and moving and pivoting and being flexible.

So you're not going to be a very good bureaucrat. You're the opposite end of the spectrum. Does that make sense? Absolutely. Yeah.

You don't you do not want to get tied into something that is extremely process and rigid, driven. If it's rigid, it's going to kill you because you are anything but rigid. If you're like our guys, because we have to make up crap on the fly sometimes up to three minutes before I walk on the stage.

So you also are very gifted at speaking diva, you're going to be great at working with CEOs, with executives, with leaders and able to get people to get the best out of themselves and also be able to just smile and say, you got it and go, go get a job done.

Right when that buries some people and you flip in there. That's right. You've been there.

You know how to just take it and move on and get to get a get a good show done. And that's a gift, man. Yeah, yeah, I think there's working with personalities and unusual situations and high stress scenarios and still getting something done is a transferable skill. We just have to think about where that is and who that's to.

Most of our businesses have all been run that way this year. I think we had an advantage at Ramsey Solutions because we have a huge Lauerman department that and I've been neck deep in it for 30 years. So I you know, when we had to pivot and change a whole bunch of stuff around here quickly, then we kind of had that skill set even and just transferred it and some of the other business units. And so things where things have to change and we're difficult people and obstacles are there.

That's a good place where you're going to thrive because it's it gives you energy.

That's the thing. And the.

Try to think what that is, but I don't know. Well, I mean, I ran into someone I'm playing my I'm trying to channel my inner Ken Coleman here. Yeah.

I ran into somebody here in the hallway today and I said, what gang are you with? Which team here at Ramsey are you with? And he said, well, with live events and I'm helping out with the concierge team, able to answer some questions, give people the help they need, able to take somebody who thinks they're in a in a solution free environment and give them some other options. And that's all stuff they've done backstage. Talk them off a cliff.

That's right. And so whether it's customer service, whether a hostage negotiator, hostage negotiator. That's right. And it's it's really endless. And I think he's going to have to find JHC enough to find that balance between Greiner's amount. You got to get some money coming in, whatever that looks like.

I think you go all the way back to whiteboarding like you're 18 years old or something and go, OK, what do I do with my life now that I know that I know this about me? Right. Because you know what your skills are, you know what your talents are. And Ken Coleman talks about the sweet spot where your talents intersect, your your passions and you've got certain passions and certain talents that have been revealed in this 10 years of experience.

So it's not wasted. That's right. It's not a clever waste. It's not a cold stop and restart. Right.

As much as it feels like it is. So I'm going to give you a copy of Ken's book, The Proximity Principle. And I want you to go to Ken Coleman Dotcom, start listening to his podcast. You may even call in and talk to him. He probably more helpful to you than we were.

But also you can download tons of free PDF things that'll guide you through the process of self discovery and getting clear on where you want to go.

And then once you get clear, then you just got to execute and go land there.

But I think it starts with mourning the end of something. Yeah. So many people get fired, they get laid off, they get furloughed and they just go run, jump into the next thing. And that's very similar to somebody divorcing you in the day after divorce. You just run in and marry somebody like you got to stop, pause, mourn that sucker, and then extract the lessons that are taught torture before you just run off into the woods, right?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it is sad to have loss. It is no matter what the loss is.

And we all have their sadness. And we've had a bunch of this year. Big ones. Small ones. Yeah.

You know, and just to say that out loud is OK, it doesn't make you, you know, a bad person, it doesn't make you a child. It doesn't make you you know, any of those kind makes you wise. Yeah.

Yeah. You just go that hurt. Ouch. Right. You know, and then go take the next wobbly step. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Hang on, Kelly. I'll pick up we'll get you a copy of Guinness Book and hopefully that'll help you. Jack, we empathize with your brother because we got a bunch of people running in the same situation. We're working them.

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