Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the car rental studio. This is the Dave Ramsey Show where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. I'm Chris Logan in Boston. With me this hour is Dr. John Villone. And we are pumped and excited to be able to have the time to hang out and talk to you. So here's what we want you to do. Want you to pick up the phone, call us triple eight eight to five five two two five.

You can find us at Ramsey Show. You can find John on social media at John Villone. You can find me at Krischan 360. And we're excited to talk to you as always. We have some outstanding people out here in the lobby. We're very excited to see real people hanging out with us. And we got a couple out here that's on their baby moon. So John and I have learned something new is where you begin to take a trip for the baby comes.

And really, to be honest, they shouldn't be going anywhere, OK? They should go home and go night, night and sleep. Just store up on sleep for this baby comes and wrecks. All the things happen. Now we're excited for him to be awesome. And so if you're near the area, come out, hang out with us. You can check out Baker Street Cafe. Miss Melissa Wilson will take care of you over there. But you also get a chance to walk through, get the background and history on our company and begin to kind of see where we've come from and at the same time, pick up the news, best selling books that we have over in the bookstore to be able to help guide you in your life as well as with your money.

All right, John, you've been bumping into some articles, and I know you're always doing research. What have you found?

This is a new article in Forbes. It says, Survey reveals 80 percent of workers would quit their job for this one thing, who 80 percent of workers would consider quitting their current position for a job that focused more on employees mental health.

Hmm.

If my boss says some of these folks would just ask me how I'm doing, would they give me permission to log off at night?

Because now that we're working at home, we don't have these natural these natural separation moments right now that folks have been worried for six months. We ran on adrenaline, right, for a long time.

Now that folks are still worried, am I going to have a job? Not people are hiring again. Is it slowing down? Is getting faster. We've got this. I don't know if you've heard this. It's kind of an underground thing that we have this presidential election coming that's added some stress to people's lives just a little bit.

And so folks are they're realizing, hey, this is not going to be a two week wait till the curve flattens. This is going to be there for the foreseeable future.

Right. And it's getting harder and harder and harder just to deal with it.

And so I want to encourage supervisors, bosses.

This is an office. This is a touchy feely thing, right? Caring, caring about your employees. But it's bigger than that. This has an ahli to it. If you take care of folks at home, if you check in with them, see how they're doing, if you make sure you're encouraging them to take time off, if you go in at five o'clock, six o'clock and see you still logged in and you text them and say, hey, get off for today, go for a walk, go enjoy some stuff, get out of here and encourage your folks to take care of themselves.

They're going to want to stick around longer. They're going to be more productive in the long run. And really, they're going to they're going to have lower anxiety, lower stress in their daily lives. What's going to make them make them better employees?

Yeah, I think as leaders, you know, we are about to embark on one of our largest leadership conferences, honorary leadership Masters Series, where we are growing business owners and leaders all across the country. But it is imperative for leaders to check in on their people. And that means, you know, we've got technology at our fingertips for the sake of business. You have it at at your fingertips for the sake of your team. And that means even if you FaceTime, Skype, look at your people, see in their eyes, I've had so many people tell me I'm doing fine or I'm doing OK and their eyes tell me something different.

And I know as a leader I need to follow back up with so-and-so or see really see what's happening. And so I want you to care enough to show up and to and to care about your team. We've got to get through this and the best way to do it is sticking together.

Here's something that I want every leader to hear. Every business owner, every middle manager, upper management, lower management.

I took a call from a woman the other day asking she's struggling with her five year old during this transition. And she said, I used to have a happy go lucky five year old. And now she's not.

She's dealt with the stress of me and my husband have been a hard six months. How do I help her get back to be the happy go lucky that she was? And I told her, you're not going to like this, but that season's over. We have we have an afternoon.

There was a before when everyone was running around and we were chase him busy and more and we could really squash our employees and get blood out of that turnip where we're in a different world now.

And so it's going to require different leadership. It's going to require people who lean in, even if it's uncomfortable. If you don't know how, ask your employees how they're doing. Encourage them to take care of themselves. Let's let an evening go by where folks can get some sleep or they log off and you're going to get that. Hours back, the next day or the next day, right, but be proactive about taking care of your people, it will help your business in the long run.

It will help you in the long run. But it's the right thing to do.

It's the right thing to do, Chris. Oh, you're absolutely right. New leadership for new times. Well, people often ask me about return on investment ROIC. I'll take it a step further. I think there's a return on involvement for leaders. I think there's a return on inclusion, meaning including people finding out what's happening in their lives and and connection. And so it is a soft skill. It is a thing that people think there's. Well, you know, that's going to take time.

It sure is. But listen, do you want to care about the people that you have on your team or do you want to train some new ones? I mean, that's really what it boils down to. And so when you care enough to get in connected, you're actually invested in their lives and you want to check on them and so be intentional. That's that's shocking to me.

It is 80 percent, 80 percent would quit their jobs for something that focus a little bit more on mental health. Now I want to flip it on them. OK, you've got a responsibility to take care of yourself.

Workers across the country are not waiting on. You've got to log off. You've got to have boundaries. Even if you're stuck at home. Make sure you're going for a walk. Make sure you're connecting with people and you make sure you define your workday the best that you can. It's easy to just sit at the sit on the couch at six o'clock, seven o'clock, eight o'clock, eat on the couch, keep working into nine, 10, 11 o'clock.

You're going to make yourself nuts. You're going to slowly grind yourself down to a nap. You've got a responsibility to own your mental health to it's easy to blame our bosses. And there are bosses across the country that deserve blame. But we have to take care of our mental health, too.

No, I agree with you. And so if you're out there and this has struck a nerve and you start to go, man, I'm in leadership and I need help or I want to make sure I'm starting to do these things better, go over to entre leadership, dotcom, entree leadership is the brand and kind of the process of how this company has grown from a card table in Dave's living room now to over a thousand team members. And so again, entree, leadership, dotcom, where you can begin to learn more about leadership, more about being a business owner, get connected and learning more about not doing leadership alone.

Leadership can be a very lonely thing if you're not connected and you don't have other like minded people. Remember, John Maxwell calls it the leadership. Lyd, we have to be open to new information so we can get poured into. So now we have the ability to be able to pour into other people. And that's part of that growing and mentoring and coaching people as we grow. So, again, go over to entree leadership. Dotcom, as I said, we've got our big event happening, entree leadership master series that is going to be kicking off next week.

And Dave and myself and you and Ken Coleman will be training and teaching leaders. And it is a blast, as I tell people. It's like getting a master's or Ph.D. in leadership. And it's stuff that you can really apply, not just theory. This is stuff that really impacts people's lives as well as their businesses. Stay tuned. We're coming back, people. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Right now got a special deal from my friends at simply safe home security, it's a free security camera.

When you order any new simply safe home security system, that's a 100 dollar value. Simply safe is 24/7 whole home protection, protecting your home from break ins, fire burst pipes and more around the clock. Emergency dispatch starts at just 50 cents a day. And no contracts get this special deal now at simply save direct dotcom. You've got nothing to lose.

Welcome back to The Dave Ramsey Show, I'm Chris Hogan and hosting along with me this hour is Dr. John Boloney. And we're having a blast and we want you to know that we are here to talk to you. And so if you've got questions on relationships, questions on money, whatever it is, pick up the phone. Call us Triplette 855 225. Again, that's 888 855 225. We'd love to be able to hear from you. Also, be sure to help John and I do better on social media.

Follow us at John Bellona. You can find him on Facebook, YouTube and Instagram. You can find me at Chris Hogan 360 on YouTube, Instagram, all the things just hit the button. People help us out. We'd love that. All right. We're getting to the phone lines. We've got Ken is on the line. Ken from Los Angeles, California. How can we help you?

Hey, what's up, guys? Hey, buddy. How are you? I'm doing well. Well, I'm a longtime listener. I shouldn't say listener. I should say I hear the show. I don't listen to the show. But I got a question regarding my business. Can you guys hear me OK?

We sure can, buddy. OK, so I have a business and. I ran it for a long time, 13 years, and I had a competitor come to me and wanted to buy the business. This is right before that coronaviruses and I'm having a hard time. So, you know, this business is basically, you know, I started it when I was twenty three, thirty six now. So it's, what, 30 years did.

Did you sell and did you sell it.

Well this is the thing that's the problem is that we were right there, you know, about to sell it and the deal would go through because of, you know, coronavirus and everything else and nobody's buying anything. And, you know, I used to buy companies, too, in the past before all this. And I don't think it's going to be selling anytime soon. So I'm having a hard time. You go out at night thinking, you know, you're going to get all your debt paid off and all this stuff with this with this business closing does.

And so I'm having a hard time like plugging back in and working and, you know, my employees and, you know, everybody's looking to me for answers. And I really don't have the answers because I had one foot out the door, right? That's exactly right.

So that's right. What tell me this. What kind of business is it?

It's a security business. OK, we do arms.

OK, so you said you had one foot out the door. What was the sales price you all had negotiated?

Was going to be one point eight million. And I was going to work for them for three years for two hundred thousand. Gotcha. So you're absolutely right.

You had one foot and another half foot out the door.

You know, you don't spend a year or two of that money, hadn't you? Well, I mean, at night, you think about it like, oh, yeah, oh, I'm not hating on you, man. I know I would have spent that money on my head, too. That's right.

No, that's factual. And so how many team members do you have right now, Ken? I got five. OK, so here's the reality. You got to get your mojo back. Yeah, you have to, because here's the reality is obviously, number one, you had done something well enough to make the company attractive for potential buyers, so you went from quarters to Souters to now potential buyers. And, of course, the covid thing hit and caused it.

So you know what to do. You know how to run this thing. So now it's just a matter of dusted it off again and going, you know what?

I just I honestly, I hate it. Yeah, I already. You hate the business or the idea.

I'm just. Yeah, I'm just I'm having a hard time, you know, running the business is a lot of work. It is. And I was sold one foot out the door. It's like that vacation you can't take.

I just I thought I was done. So you can. Here's what I want to come back and. Oh, little here's what I want you to do.

Ken, I want you you married. You got somebody you got something in your life that loves you you can be honest with. Yeah, I'm here. I got three kids, OK, maybe she's going to be one this year. Wow. OK, so did your employees know about the sale? No. OK, I can't tell them about it. They had no idea.

OK, so I want you to do a couple of things. I want you to get with your wife and I want you all to step back and look at not the business, because my guess is this my best. My guess is your tired security business is a hard business. It's a lot. And then, man, that kind of money with that kind of security three years into the future, that just that's a ball that solves a lot of anxieties in our life.

Right. And you're about to be debt free. You're about to have a great salary for a few years. You're going to sit back and coast with this new baby, with all your kids and all that. And then also and it's gone. So all that's getting dumped into I hate my job. I hate going there because your job is the epicenter of this hurt right now. Right. It's you're looking at every day, every day. And every time Billy doesn't show up for a stupid shift, you get angrier and it just is welling up in you.

So I want you and your wife.

I called in sick today and I knew I'd say yes.

And so I want you and your wife to step back and go back to January of twenty twenty.

I want you to write down all of the things that have been awesome, that have happened and all the things that have absolutely sucked. And here's what I want you to do. I want you all to have and you're going to laugh at me and you're going to say, this is that stupid dude, I want you to trust me on this. I want you and your wife to hold a miniature funeral for the money you're not going to spend.

I want you to hold a funeral for the sale that happened. I want you all to have some sort of ceremony in your house in a month or less. Well, you're going to market because here's what happens when you start spending stuff. Your brain felt safe and then they took it away in your brain, experienced it as a loss, even though it wasn't a loss. And so now it's sounding all the alarms that you're broke, you're stuck, you hate, and then it doesn't show up for work today.

And so every alarm you've got going off and if you have a ceremony, if you've got a it put a period at the end of that sentence, you'll be able to exhale. And then I want the second the third thing I'm sorry, I want you and your wife to do is I want you all to create what is the next two years going to look like. And you look at her and say, honey, I got to get out of this business.

I've got a one year old, I've got a baby, I've got a couple of kids. So today is not that day. But now you can start building towards the an exit strategy and it might not be the one point eight million dollars sale, but it might be that you find yourself another 200000 job or another hundred thousand dollar job.

You're a smart guy. Obviously you're a builder, but you're going to find that proactively somewhere else. But until you honor and close this sucker down in your heart mind, it's going to keep burn a hole through you, OK?

Trust me, I'll never get up in the morning.

Yeah, it's just hard to keep pushing. It is.

It's weighing you down and like I feel like a rug pulled out from under me. Hey. Hey, Ken, what's the big deal? It was hard. It did. I got got pulled off money.

This business is this business is a part of me. Yep. And for me to make that decision, I had so much anxiety if I should even sell it or not sell it. Yes. You know, that was that was the biggest decision I ever made. That's right. Make the decision to sell it and then it doesn't get done. And that's what buckin.

Can't listen to yourself, brother. You are still apologizing to yourself for having feelings about it. This sucks. It hurts. And you're not giving yourself permission to feel it. So you got to have some sort of sit down with your wife and you going to write it down and say we were going to have a million and a half dollars, we were going to have two hundred grand, and I was going be able to spend weekends with my kid and I have to fill in with some it didn't call in, didn't show up.

And it did it didn't feel like the rug pulled out. The rug did get pulled out. And you've got to sit down and honor that. And here's the sucky part, brother. Your wife's absorbing a lot of this. Your kids are absorbing a lot of this.

Kids are home. She's just we're fighting. It's raw. They're absorbing all of it.

And so what you have to do is the adult in that house is you've got to say, hey, I hurt. This is not good. It was going to be awesome and it's not anymore. And then we're going to own it. That's right. They were going to own it. That's right. And that's redefining this new normal, because I'm going to tell you something. You have built this thing. You are not this business now.

You're a dad. You're a husband. You are an individual. You're a leader with dreams. And I think you get yourself dusted back off. The quickest way to get back toward that dream is for you to keep leading this business in that direction. But you got to get your mojo back. I'm going to take it a step further. You need to get some real men in your life that you can be upfront and honest with. Obviously, I want you to talk to your spouse, which I want you to kind of shake this thing off and look and go.

The fastest exit is back on this ramp, moving this business in the direction to sell it, to be able to move forward. And so what you do, you start dreaming again. You start shaking it off and looking at it and getting excited for the sake of your family. And you can do this, my friend. Got it. Can you stay focused? You're not finished. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Do you have student loans, I need you to tune in right now and listen, I've been telling you to refinance your loans with Splash Financial.

Here's what I don't understand. Many of you who have been prequalified to refinance your student loans to better rates have not finished your dadgum applications. So this is simple. Finish it. You could save thousands and you pay nothing to refinance. Go back to splash financial dotcom slash Ramsey. That's how they'll know you're one of my listeners. Splash Financial Dotcom Ramsey. Welcome back to The Dave Ramsey Show, I'm Chris Rock and a host along with me this hour is Dr.

John Deloney, and we're taking your calls on your life and your money, your relationships, the things that are on your mind. Just know you can pick up the phone and call us 8255. We are ready to take your call. Again, that's eight eight eight eight two five five two two five. We are here now. Right now. I want to ask you something. What if you never had to question what was happening with your money or your plan?

Does this feel like something that's impossible? Well, if not, you just need the right plan and it's available. And that's what Ramsey Plus is all about. It's one membership that coaches you step by step through our best products. So you always know you're doing the right thing with your money. You'll be guided through our three big hitters, Financial Peace University, the premium version of every dollar, our budgeting app and our new baby steps tracking app.

Plus, you'll get tons of free courses, tools and access even to financial coaches. So with Ramsey plus you can know you're doing the right thing with your money. You can start your free trial today at Dave Ramsey Dotcom Slash FPU, that's Dave Ramsey, dotcom slash FPU. Also, I don't know if I'm going to say this or not, but we've got smart conference coming up. And for those people that are already plugged in with Ramsey, plus because you are a Remzi plus member, you are going to be able to live stream smart conference right into your home as it is on November 7th.

You can stream it in already as a member of Ramsey. Plus, you're going to see it. You can get it for free. This is a forty dollar option here. And so you're going to hear from IMT Smart conference is one of my favorite events. People are going to get to hear from Dave, going to get to hear from Dr. Mark Meeker, Dr. Henry Cloud, you're going to hear from Deloney me, Krista AOG. Ken, I mean, it's all of us and we're going to be doing it from right here.

We're going to have a blast. This is your first one?

Mm hmm. You ready?

Let's do it. Let's do it, man. OK, rookie, see if you're ready, it's going to be fun, though. I tell you all the content information there. Regardless if you're 18 to 80, you've got an opportunity to learn about career, about money, about personal development, parenting, marriage. I mean, it really is. It is it is an absolute top notch event. Can't wait. Yeah, it's exciting. It is fun.

All right, let's get to the phones. We got Alison. Oh, John is with you. Alison, what's your question for John?

Hi, guys. So I want to help my boyfriend right now here. His job is going through some management changes and there's a potential that he could lose his job. And I don't know how I can be there for him to help him make a plan without taking kind of control, because I tend to do that. And then also he kind of has anxiety and I don't want him to spiral either. So how can I help validate him but also help prepare him?

Well, one, Alison high five to you for knowing that you are somebody who likes to go in and control things and take over. You've won half the battle here. Yes. Self-awareness. That's right. That's a great gift. Alison, so good for you. And high five and you all the way in Des Moines. Thanks.

What's it what's his job?

He's an engineer. Go for a kind of well-known company in the area.

OK, so if he if he loses his job or if he gets a love that term management restructuring, that's all good will hunting alone.

So the management's restructuring, he loses his job. Is he going to have to leave Des Moines or you're going to have to get out of there? What's what's the plan? What's Plan B?

He's looked at other jobs in the area, but I think it's kind of slim pickings with the way things are going with covid and everything.

So he loses his job. This may be a bigger existential issue. This may mean you are going to have to be a part. He's going to have to leave. So he's not just wrestling with I may lose my job. He's made his wrestling with. I may have to move. I may be separated from a girlfriend for a while. So this is a bigger deal.

Yeah. And he just bought a house a few months ago. So he is, you know, nervous about all that.

Alison, I'm curious, how long have you been dating? Six months. OK, so what I would tell you is wait till you have a non. Here's the thing.

So Chris is looking at me like I'm crazy. No, no, no. Six months. Alison, the reality is you're going to have a very small voice in his life.

And I hate to tell you that that way, if you have been dating for four or five years, we we're engaged. That's one conversation six months in is you're going to be more of a support role than a planning role. I support you.

And I'll tell you that without being rude or ugly to you know, you're no. You're spot on this. No, your place in this. And what I would do is wait. And when he's having a good day, things are OK. And just say, would you be interested in making a plan? Like, what are you thinking about? What are you going to do for your house?

Where are you going to do for job opportunities? Have you sent some resumes out? And really, at the end of the day, that's the extent of what you can do. You may go to the next step, which is to ask him how ways I can support you. Let him tell you, let him teach you, and then do what you can just to follow his his support request. I've got a buddy who has been one of my longest, oldest friends on planet Earth who's had a lot of job transition turmoil over the last six months.

And I just call him and check on him once a week. What's the update on your job? And he doesn't have a lot, but he's slowly starting to to to dig in and find some traction, get some other ideas. And here's the thing. He didn't ask me to solve its problems. I can't solve his problems.

I can tell him that I love him and check in on him and see how come in. That's right. And, Alison, I think this is important for you to kind of pay attention to see how this dude responds, right? I mean, because when you ask him, OK, if this is what can I do to help? Is John singing and kind of putting out his plan? Because you you don't you don't want a child. You need a man.

And so really kind of getting a feel for how he's thinking and his process, I think this is a great opportunity for you to kind of be aware of, hey, OK, how's he wired? How's he going to respond when life doesn't go perfect? Because I'm going to tell you it doesn't ever go as planned. It's good to plan, but you're going to have to adjust and be flexible. So I would ask I would encourage, but I love that, you know, you that you your tend to try to control it.

Don't do that for him. Actually, I'm going to say this, Alison, don't do that to him, because if you take control, you're stealing his growth opportunity. Yeah, that's true. Are you going to do it? No, I won't. All right. I have to say a few things, just like you said, Hogan, that skewed info. I'm going to do what I need to do.

If you find yourself alisson more worried about his future than he is, that's a big red signal. It's a big flag for the future of your relationship, for for him, for you, for everybody.

It is six months real. No, OK. I like you, John Delonas. Six months is not real. No, I know. But maybe it could be the beginning phase.

Of course it could, but it's just what I thought, too. And then I thought maybe I'm just hard hearted, but I'm emotional both. And I've got all the emotions, both animals and things in there.

I got three six months is enough that I care. Six months is enough that I started envisioning. Yeah, but six months is not enough to wear. You get a full seat at the table. Hey, I'm sure, but this if someone like Allison knows herself and you tend to have some control issues just like I do, how do you dial that back, like with your buddy who's having the job situation?

I know you. I know you're a straight shooter. I know you've got stuff you want to tell him, but you haven't, right?

Why? Well, I have. What I haven't done is owned the outcome. I got you, not mine. OK, right. No, that's that's the healthiest way to do it.

And it took me a long time to get there because I wanted to give advice and then I wanted to make sure I was right. And I wanted to. I wanted to. I wanted to. So now I'm going to look at somebody and say, you don't look like you're doing well. I want you to know I'm thinking about you. And that's it. If you want to invite me in later to that conversation, great. OK, I'm not going to insert myself in that anymore.

Don't own the outcome. It's not mine like that if I get invited into it. That's right.

If he calls me and says, hey, I'm really struggling between this job in this job, what do I do then? I'm going to hear him out. He's inviting me in.

Until then, I'm tell him I love you. I think you should let this one go and go to this one. And that's that's it. That's my job. As somebody who cares about somebody that's smart.

No, I mean, that's you look at that, you go, yeah, that's the that's the smartest way to be able to approach to Alison tells this guy that she's starting to imagine a future with.

I'm worried about the fact you're not worried. I'm worried about that you're spending more time on a video games instead of looking for jobs. I'm worried that you just bought this house and you just got notified.

You may not have a job in two months and you haven't already put it on the market, right? I'm worried about it. And then let it be. Let it be. I'm worried about who I like that. And again, you're being real. You're being vulnerable. That's right. But you're not owning the outcome. That's nation. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. And at. All right, this is the Dave Ramsey Show. Welcome back again.

If you are ever near the area, come visit us here in the lobby. Fantastic. We've had families out there, people that are touring and looking around and really taking in the building. We'd love to have you here. Baker Street cafes over. Miss Melissa Wilson will take care of you with coffee and cookies and all the things. But you also have an opportunity to pick up our information, our best selling books. All of them are over there.

Dave's got multiple. I've got a couple.

And believe it or not, Dr. Deloney has something in the works and we're not able to talk too much about it right now. We're getting there. But it's coming. We're getting there, which is fantastic. So you have to know Ramsey Solutions is about life change. We are about being focused and definitely not finished. And we're here to encourage you, regardless of where you are, to kind of dig in and know that, hey, change is available.

All we have to do is have the right information and the right mindset and we can make some stuff happen. All right. Here we go. We're getting to the phone lines. If you're out there, we'd love to hear from you. 888 8255 225. Again, that's Triplette eight two five five two two five. We're going to go to Cincinnati, the land of Greater Skyline Chili and all the other things and talk to Amanda. Amanda, how are you?

Hi, I'm good. How are you? Our focus to not finished, young lady. How can John and I help you? So since I've started listening this year, I saved up to 1000, started tackling my debt, but I didn't really consider the holidays that coming up. And I have a pretty big family. OK, a lot of big family on my spouse's side, OK? Like 10 co-workers that I would have to probably buy gifts for as well.

So why do you have to do that obligation? Oh, you mean obligation to. The co-workers, it's just their tradition, their traditions, their tradition. Amanda, we are about to set you free. I'm serious. Are you driving right now? I'm in the car. You're about to have wings around the back of our car free you, we are about to give you some information. It's going to change your whole mindset with the holidays. Here you go.

First and foremost, you know who you shop for, who you can afford to shop for. All right. Big families. You know what you do? You draw names. You know, you get one name, everybody draws one name and you buy a gift for that person. No more buying 48 gifts, no more SWIP Athans running through the mall with a credit card or online and taken three years to pay off Christmas. No more of that.

Then days is done. I'm giving you permission right now to rewrite the way you do Christmas and you know what you can do? You give someone a coupon and you make them dinner. Or if they have kids, you watch their kids, you give them a coupon for a free weekend. OK, maybe not a weekend. That's a lot. Got kids. I mean, you may watch for a couple hours or something, but here's the thing.

You're not going to you don't have to have that obligation anymore. No more in Amanda. It starts with you, how old are you? 31. All right, perfect. It starts with you sent in an email to your family that says covid is rictus this year we're doing. I'm doing things a little bit differently. I hope you'll join me. Instead of buying gifts for everybody this year, we're going to draw names or I'm not buying gifts. This year, I'm going to do something that's going to be more meaningful.

I'm going to write a letter to every single person over the next two months, whatever that's going to look like. You take ownership of what happens next. And oftentimes experiences in my own family, everyone's just waiting for that one person to call it. And you're 31. You're not a 22 year old trying to figure things out. You let it fly your 10 coworkers. You tell them guys, I can't do it this year. I'm not doing it this year.

How about that? I'm not doing it this year. Instead, let's all go out to lunch. Let's all go have a potluck. We're all going to bring stuff that we're going to that we love. And I bet you you're going to set your coworkers free.

Oh, you, Amanda, you having the courage to bring this up and talk about it and to go first? I'm telling you, you will get people going. Thank you. Thank you for bringing this up because I didn't know what I was going to do. And Amanda, here's the flip side of this. For me as a financial guy, what I know to be true is that if people don't speak up, they will end up using debt.

They will end up robbing Peter to pay Paul with this situation. And then guess what? You wake up a week after Christmas with more anxiety and more financial stress than you had on the front end. You didn't fix anything. It's like three card monte where you're trying to move it around and you think it's going to make feel, but it's not. And so I just want to give you permission to not have to feel that obligation, that pseudo obligation of having to buy for everybody anymore because you just don't have to.

And we live in a in a a messed up situation right now. If there's ever a moment to change a tradition that folks don't like, it's right now. It really is right now.

People are, John. People are going to I've already talked to some friends that said, hey, for Thanksgiving, we always used to yell, you know, not anymore.

And so I go, yeah, no, you get it. You get a chance. What's your new normal? Yep. Right. What is that thing going to be? And you may not be able to go spend the week with your grandparents or, you know, with all the stuff. So what's the new normal? And I think this is an important thing, especially psychologically. Traditions are something we hold near and dear.

They're important. They're important, but they are just shifting that up like that. That's going to cause some people to to feel some stuff. It is.

And that's why when, you know, things are important, we've always done New Year's Eve this way. We've always done Thanksgiving this way.

Just to wipe the board is is part of it. Right. But you got to be honest with everybody. Yeah. Somebody's got to speak the unspoken. Someone's got to put it out there, guys. I just don't have the money this year. Correct me.

It was hard. I'm I'm I'm not as stable as I thought I was going to be financially. I've got on the Dave Ramsey plan, guys. I'm not going to buy a bunch of gifts this year. It is what it is, but it is. And then you offer the alternative. I'm going to write everybody a letter. I'm going to make handwritten a crafted gifts. We're all going to go out to one big meal, whatever it is, take ownership of it.

And I'm going to tell you, making the statement that, hey, covid has wrecked my situation, I can't do it this year. This is not debatable. No. Yeah.

This is not something where someone could say, well, I mean, are you sure? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. As my Mama Hogan used to tell me, I'll never forget I turned 16, John. And believe it or not, I rolled in and told Mama Hogan I was going to use her car. And she looked at me and she goes, Bless your heart. And I go, What are you talking about?

She goes, I own that car.

Like, you can't come tell me. Right? And she used to say, Honey, I'm not debating.

I'm stating like that. Oh, mama organism. Yes. I'm not debating. I'm state. And so when you start to speak about what you're going to do, what your family's going to do, listen, you're not debating. You're stating it's not a debatable there's no going back and forth. This is what we're going to do. This is what I can afford to do. And I don't want you to feel the guilt in that, because I'm going to tell you, Christmas ain't got nothing to do with them gifts.

It's about the gift. And so having the difference in mindset and having the courage to stand up for yourself and your financial future. I'm going to tell you something, Amanda. You'll shift the game. And if at age 31 you can get this in your spirit, you won't fall for anybody else's ideals or thoughts. You're going to think clearly for yourself. My guess is, is that her family is going to all exhale.

Yes. They just say no, they are good. Like you said, no one had the courage to say it because people are feeling that.

And, John, I'm going to tell you the emotions that you can see run high during the holidays. People tend to are remembering family members that have passed, hurting about where they're not where they want it to be.

There's all these things, and I I hope this year, a year, we we can find more joy than we've ever found before.

Think about think about heading into the holiday season as a as a as a chalkboard that we used to have as a kid. And it's been wiped clean and let's rewrite. Yeah, but we're going to experience hurricane. To talk to guess who we're going to heal, what relationships we're going to heal, who are not going to deal with anymore, let this be a moment outcomes.

I'm not going to try to I'm not going to own that one today. No, that's one I'm going to write down. And so I want to encourage you. All right. Now we are in October. Go ahead and sit down tonight, have a conversation with your spouse. What's Thanksgiving going to look like? Paint the picture. Go ahead and start talking about it right now. And some of you've got Outlaw's excuse me in-laws. I said out loud.

I said that out loud, too. And some of you got those that have been controlling the family traditions and all that. Guess what was to be grown ups now. Yep. And so you might Skype them for for 45 minutes on Thanksgiving Day or what is this? But you all get united on what you're going to do in this new normal. And I think to that can be an empowering thing for couples.

Oh, man, you just stand up a little bit taller.

You don't have that tension that that purveying low level anxiety that just burned through the holidays. You're just free, man.

I like this idea. All right. You all listen to me. Thank you for taking the time to tune in. I want to thank producer James Giles, associate producer Kelly Daniel, all of you, for taking the time to tune in. This has been the Dave Ramsey Show.

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