Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the car rental studios. It's the Dave Ramsey Show where Dad is Cash is king and the pay it off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host, our co-host today here on the air.

Ramsey, personality number one, best selling author Chris Hogan joins me.

Open phones as we talk to you about your life and your money.

Open phones at elite eight to five five two two five. That's triple eight eight two five five two two five.

Alexandra is in Stamford, Connecticut. Hi, Alexandra. Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show.

Hi, Dave. Hi, Chris. Thank you guys so much for taking my call. Sure. I am a junior in college studying computer science at an Ivy League, so I am one hundred fifteen thousand dollars seven hundred forty three dollars in debt. So twenty thousand is a federal loan. So the rest is for a parent plus one from my mom. So my parents are immigrants from Cameroon. So I was born and raised here in Connecticut and I really want to work before I get my masters because I'm pretty sure I'm going to go to another Ivy.

And I don't really know how to explain to them that because I don't want to be like a shame. You know, everyone keeps saying like, oh, when you leave school, you're not going to want to come back. But it's like it's like student loans are normal for everybody. Right? Because it's like at the end of the day, you have like an Ivy League. That means that you made it, especially when your parents have been through so much in their other country.

OK, what do you think I should do? What what how can we help you? What's your question? Yeah, so I just want to know, like how I can explain to my family that I want to work instead of go to school. Well, your family, it sounds like, are not only extremely proud of you for going to school, but also going to an Ivy League school because they're first generation immigrants to America.

Correct. Right.

And not only are they proud of you going to school, they're proud of you going to that school.

And they place a lot of value, as you do, based on your language that you used on Ivy League.

And so. The point is, is they're heavily invested emotionally in this whole process, so I don't think there are words that are going to say that are going to change that, OK?

In other words, I think that you need to prepare, be prepared to go. Mom and dad, I love you. And I understand why this is so important to you, but it's important to me to get out into the workplace and I'll finish up my masters in an adult program, maybe even not at an Ivy.

Because in your world, in the IT world, a masters degree is not necessary for success. Right, right. The Masters degree from an Ivy League is sure is not necessary for success in your world. Got tons of people who did not graduate from college, making 200000 dollars a year working for me in technology, and they don't even have a college degree.

Right, and if they do, I shouldn't look to see if they went to an Ivy, I looked to see if they could fix a freakin computer or make it be. That's all I wanted them to do. Right, and I'm the employer, you know, Alexandra, it's going to be a matter of having a reset for them. You know, I love the fact that, you know exactly how much student loan debt you have. And I would love for you to spend some time to educate them on what's it going to look like for you to try to chop that down?

How hard are you going to have to work? What's it going to take? And so you give them a good opportunity to have this learning experience. But I wouldn't be asking. I would be stating Mama Hogan told me something. I was 16 and I told her I was going to use her car. And she looked at me and she said, Bless your heart. And I knew what that meant.

I was about to go night night, about to fall down because she owned the car. I couldn't she owned a frying pan. And so what I'm telling you is as to use one of her phrases, I'm not debating.

I'm stating. And I don't want you to go in with your parents to try to debate this, but help them to understand and then state for them that they need what you've raised them. They've raised you to be a smart, independent thinking person. And it's time for you to get to work, to chop this debt down out of your life.

And you're going to look at adding school later on when you can cash for it if it is needed for your success. You do not go get the Ivy League master's degree for no freaking reason, if it is not needed for your career path, because that's a lot of money going to robotics.

What? I want to go into robotics. Yeah.

Yeah. And you think everybody in robotics has a masters from an Ivy League and wrong answer? They don't. They are specially gifted. They can see things in 3D in their head and they've taken that natural gifting and they move into that field and they apply technology to it. And I've got friends at home, robotics companies.

And so it's again, it's not you know, I think you're in a particular world that has told you a particular narrative and script that out here in the real world might you might find not to be true. Mm hmm.

So I'm not saying you can't go back or that you'd be dumb to go back and get your masters at an Ivy League in technology. I think that when you get out here and you figure out that it's not necessary for you to be successful in your career field, you may choose to go back or you may not choose to go back. Anyway, back to your parents.

Here's what I would tell you. You always start with someone who's been a blessing to you, reminding them that they have mom, mom and dad. I'm so grateful. You are incredible superstars. You have set the table for our family to win. You've gone through such hard times and gone through such sacrifice to get us these opportunities. And I don't take that lightly. I also know this education and me getting it is very important to you to feel like your sacrifice was worth it.

And I want to tell you it was worth it. And I'm going to prove to you that it was worth it. I have I have made the decision, though, that I am not going to continue and get my masters until I get into the workplace and chop the student loan down, because it's starting to overwhelm me and it's starting to become emotionally a burden to me. That's a lot of money and I need to get rid of that. And then I will return and get my master's if I need to, in order to win in my career field.

And it's just a matter of stating gratitude, humility.

And then, as Hogan said, we're not opening up. You're not asking their opinion. You're telling them you're not coming back for a Masters. And that's, you know, that's what you need to do in this situation. And so there's lots of people you can be kind to but that don't have a vote.

Yes, that's so true. And you could hear, Dave, even as you were talking to her, in her mind, they've engrained in her. She needs that masters. Well, she believes and she believes it. And so hearing that and hopefully her cracking the door and realizing that, hey, we're only telling you what we know out here in the real world and you've got a great opportunity as to move forward. Young lady, keep your head up.

You know, there's a lot of stuff you're going be able to do. You're obviously very smart and you're obviously intellectually bright.

And you're obviously, you know, again, I.

I just tell you that the statistics on families like yours are very, very good on your probability of success. Matter of fact, folks, if you didn't know this, we're going to a millionaire theme hour later today. Chris and I will. And if you immigrate to this country legally from another country, you are four times more likely to become a millionaire than one of us that was born here.

Well, because the Statue of Liberty means something.

Yeah. Freedom, the free enterprise system, the freedom to choose to save, sacrifice and invest means something different than one of us that grew up in suburbia or playing Atari. Yeah, watching Mayberry reruns. And so it's just a different thing. It is a different mindset. Everybody can do it. But you're in a good situation there, young lady. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Yes, folks, mortgage rates are really low, and while that's great news, watch out for mortgage lenders with a slick pitch claiming they have the lowest rates.

Those deals often come with bad advice and hidden fees. Instead, I want you to call Churchill Mortgage to buy a new home or refinance because they think, like I do call today, triple A loan, 200 or Churchill Mortgage Dotcom.

This is a paid advertisement in MLS ID one five nine one in the MLS Consumer Access Dog, equal housing lender 1749 Mallory Lane Sweet 100 Brentwood, Tennessee three seven zero two seven. Chris Hogan Ramsey, personality number one, best selling author, is my co-host today here on the show, we're taking your calls about your life and your money. Open phones at eight eight two five five two two five. That's triple eight eight to five five two two five.

Katie is with us in Austin, Texas. Hi, Katie. How are you?

Hi, Dave and Chris. I'm doing well. How are you all today? Better than we deserve. What's up in your world? Wonderful.

Wow. I had a quick question for you. My husband and I have a smaller portion of our retirement savings and a traditional IRA. And I'm curious if we need or if it's important to try to convert that over to a Roth IRA. And if so, what do you recommend doing it all at one time, kind of spreading it out over the years. And would you prioritize, you know, the money that we would have to pay for taxes for this before paying off of our our how much how much is in it?

One hundred and seventy three thousand. OK, I would do it after you pay off your house, OK? And then you would just look at it and consider whether or not it's going to make sense. How old are you got.

40. OK, when you project to have the home paid for May of next year. Oh yeah.

OK, great. That's a no brainer there. Yeah. Because here's the thing.

Basically we're creating a tax bill of about forty or fifty thousand dollars when we convert this, right.

Yes. And that's forty or fifty thousand that keeps you from paying off your house. And so I, we'll get the house paid off and then that's going to be one of the last things I do. That is actually the order I personally did it in. I had an accumulation of miscellaneous IRAs and some SEP IRAs from the early days of this business that were traditional. I converted them all to Roth, but it was after I was debt free and after I was ready to do some additional investing in baby steps.

Seven Cristen. That's generally what we do.

Yeah, absolutely it is. And Kadia, I'm proud of you guys. How much would you say you all have put away for retirement all total?

Well, in our Rollison for one K, which is also a we have about seven hundred fifty five thousand and then about a hundred thousand in real estate. Why it is interesting.

I mean you guys are just knocking on the door of being everyday millionaires. You're so seriously.

And Katie, I'm curious, did you come from money? Are you a first generation wealth builder? First generation, are you really? That's amazing. I love to hear that. So who got on this path first? You are your husband.

You know both of us. We both have a financial background. We have parents who are very much about saving money for a rainy day. And so they taught us well growing up. And so since we got married, we've just socked away money as much as we could. That's amazing.

Well, keep stay focused. And as they've said, attack the house, get that out of your life that you can look at converting because think about it, that mortgage payment is going to be freed up and then you guys need to listen. Let me get you a copy of my book, Everyday Millionaires, because the next phase for you all is working on that bridge account, and that's where you start to put some money away outside of retirement to prepare you for living your dreams early.

So Kelly will get your information. I'm going to send you that book. And congratulations. You guys are doing a fantastic job. You're very welcome. Way to go, Katie.

Absolutely fabulous to hear that. She said her parents, whose parents were savers, talk to them about it. They picked up the skill and they're doing it to parents. Talk to your kids.

So, yeah, maybe mom and dad, you've got a 16 year old, 17 year old, and maybe you talk to them. Even if you don't have any money, you can start to say this is what could happen if you did the show.

If you show a 17 year old that is a little has a little bit of a math inclination, a compound interest chart, you know. Usually their mind is blown. I remember the first time I saw that, I just went, there's a million dollars at the bottom of that. I want that.

And this is how you get it. Compound interest is the eighth wonder of the world. And I said, well, I use the car example for one of my boys who's extremely motivated. I got one that listens and one that hears two different. And seeing that and working toward the car fun and of course, the match. And I do and all that. They're listening. They're listening. And so you've got to keep having the conversation. Remember, one conversation is an introduction.

Continue to have the talk over and over and over again, just like you make sure that keep brushing their teeth.

Britney's in Houston, Texas. Hey, Britney, how are you? Hi, Dave. Hi, Chris. I'm really honored to be able to pick your brains for a minute. Cool. Well, my question is my question is about our budget. So we've been Davich for a long time. My husband, I was been married 10 years. We have three kids. So Dave Ish, I can say, does not work. You probably have to be on a plane to really get the benefit.

We were debt free a year ago and then my husband's truck got stolen and we only had liability, no comprehensive so no insurance payout on that. And we decided to buy minivans. And so now we have a car loan for the first time in a long time. We've had it for about a year and it feels kind of crushing. So we've decided to go into Real Dave Method's here and get started. But I'm looking at our budget and I want to know what is reasonable to keep in our budget, what makes sense for our family and why do we have to cut and are we shooting ourselves in the foot by not going beans and rice, rice and beans all the way?

What is your household income? My husband, he's the sole provider, he's a first responder, so he works eighty four to ninety six hours a week and he brings in a little over 5000 a month.

OK, so 60000 thousand a year. And what do you own the. We owe twenty four thousand Sulit. OK, stupid van. Yes, it did not bring you happiness. And the word you used was crushing the word you used was crushing, when something is crushing me, I try to get out from under it so that it doesn't crush me.

Right. That makes sense. That's not like they're still saying no, no, they're right in Britney.

It is not only the right answer, but more importantly, what are you going to do? You guys have been Davis, you said before. So what are you going to do? Are you tiptoeing around this thing? And is this van going to throw money out of your life every month? Are you going to take a stand? What are you going to do? My lesson and the lesson I'm. One of my favorite one of my favorite verses is the blessings of the Lord have no sorrow added to them.

This van, the way you described it, there's a lot of sorrow associated with it. You feel ashamed that you shouldn't have bought it.

You feel regret that you did buy it. And you look at the math and it makes you want to puke.

It's crushing was the word you used.

And so I think I think we can pretty clearly say this is not from God. It's not a blessing that God sent into your life. And so let's pull it like it's a bad splinter in your finger and get your life back. Honey, it's not going to affect me. You get to do Ramsey ish if you want to. Ramsey you know, here's the thing. It does not affect my personal trainer. If I do 45 sit ups with him and then I go eat a box of chocolate donuts in an effective room, but I'm not following instructions and I'm not going to get the results that he has.

That's why I keep having a keg and he has a six pack, you know, because I'm trainer ish.

You have to you have to do the thing you want that's going to get you to the thing you want. You do. You got it. You know, it's and you got you guys got to look at that and decide it's up to you.

I'm not mad at you. You do whatever you want to do. But you said. It's crushing you and, you know, it's illogical to stay under something that is falling on your head. That's right. Somebody dropped that thing off a bridge.

You would move, move quick. You wouldn't stand under it and get crushed. Not at all by it. Not at all.

And I know you said your husband truck got stolen. So you guys are fill all this.

But listen, don't don't bring that dead in your life, inject it, you know, and then sit down and do your budget. I'll tell you what, we'll put you in Ramsey Plus and you guys get into Financial Peace University and get your budget going on every dollar and you'll start to see the other areas that you can cut. But I mean, this is not this is not a blessing. The blessings of the Lord have no sorrow attached to them.

If an item situation is giving you sorrow, then you know one from God's good point. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Listen, there are some basic things that you should be doing to take care of your family, a roof over their head, food to eat, a car to get you from A to B and term life insurance, term life insurance is an immediate need no matter where you are in the baby steps, since your family is at no greater risk than when you're in debt.

The only place I send you for this is to Zander Insurance. They shop all the top insurance companies and they're committed to serving you. That's why I use them and have recommended them for over 20 years. Go to Zanda dot com are called eight hundred three, five, six, 42, 82.

And Chris Hogan Ramsey personality is my co-host today here on the Dave Ramsey Show. Open phones at eight two five five two two five. One of our favorite things to do is to have someone do a debt free scream. The only thing it's better is if they do a debt free scream on the debt free stage in the Ramsey Solutions lobby. The only thing better than that is if they're doing a debt free scream on the debt free stage in the Ramsey Solutions lobby.

And they're one of our Ramsey team members.

Kiyono, welcome. Hi, Dave. Keoni Hastings is a Ramsey plus campaign marketer, works on the retention, the retention side or the acquisition side, meaning she's one of the people get you to come into Ramsey plus and her marketing prowess does that.

How long you been with us? About three years. Yep, about three years. Well, welcome. Very cool.

So how much debt has Kiona Hastings' paid off? I paid off a little under sixty five thousand dollars in nineteen months, 55, 60, 65, right there in Moscow.

I'm sorry. I'm ask why you say all right. And so. Oh my gosh.

And I won't ask your income because all your team is standing around and that would be completely unfair. So we don't we don't force our own team members to reveal their income in front of everybody else, because half the bad I'm building is here to cheer her on, which is awesome.

And looks like you got some other cheerleaders with you. Who's this with you?

I do. I have a few of my friends, my mom, my aunt. I'm on my business partners and my roommate and my best friends behind them.

Very cool. Very cool. Awesome. So what kind of debt did you get yourself into, girl? It was all student loans. Student loans.

You kicked all Sallie Mae out. I did. I say goodbye. Give the old woman her eviction notice.

Nineteen months. So you did this while you worked here? Yes. So I was working here. I took on a few other jobs. I realized early on that I either needed to make more or spend less, and I really needed to do both. And I've never had a problem with making money. It's the saving it and not buying clothes that are probably not buying clothes.

A very specific area of overspending.

OK, I like it. It's a problem. And so I had almost seven jobs at that point. I was working here. I started a business with Haley. We did wedding coordination. Wow. And then I did Doordarshan Shift. I was babysitting. I worked for too many years. And so I did a little bit of everything to make some extra money. Knocked it out in nineteen months.

Yeah. So what was it that made you decide, OK, I'm going to go crazy because you went crazy. Yeah.

So I was working here for about a year and a half and before that I did have two credit cards. I paid off early on because when I started here of course I took a few and actually took it twice and then I let it twice. And in doing that, a friend of mine, Elizabeth, she posted on Facebook that she paid off, I think, thirty six thousand dollars. And she was single. She was a teacher. And I was like, well, she can do it.

I can do it. And so once I saw it, I reached out to her for a few things for the coordinator general. At the time, I was recruiting people to be a few coordinators. And I reached out to her to just to hear a little bit more about her story. And she said, yeah, I just worked a lot and I cut my expenses more than half. And I was like, I can do that. So I got a roommate.

I got all these extra jobs and I really just went all in. And at that point I was like, OK, I want to be done. By the time I turn thirty and I'm twenty eight now and then I was like, OK, maybe I can do it by the year 2020.

And so I did it.

Was it it. Absolutely. Because you've been working like a wild animal.

Yeah. Seven dogs. Yes. I mean you're out of control.

Good news. Yeah. It was fine because I'm all the things that are wrong with people in debt. I'm an idiot. I'm seven. I love doing all the things all the time. I'm a free spirit spender. So all the things that could be not in my favor were me. And so you you need to work here. Yeah.

OK, so I got to ask, are you still working the seven jobs?

Not as much. OK, so our wedding business took off, so I'm still doing that and I still work for the venues, but I'm not shifting and Doordarshan nearly as much. But I do now that taxes are coming up and you have to make sure that I'm prepared for that as well. I've been setting money aside. I want to make sure that I'm in the clear when it comes, said the ten ninety nine from Dauda. And things like that, so, yeah, OK, so your stated dayjob.

Is to market to folks telling them that Ramsey plus Financial Peace University, this stuff works, try it. And the oddity is, is that you weren't doing it completely. And then when you did it, you did it all in. Yeah. So now you get to do some marketing. You're ready. All right.

What is it that you learn in this process in Ramsey plus that you learned that caused you to be able to do this?

What's the key to getting out of debt? I think there are a few things outside of budgeting, which I had not been doing at all. And then once I started budgeting, it really was freeing. I thought, oh, wow, I have a lot more money than I thought I did. I was just spending it on clothes so that there was that.

And then that whole thing comes up a lot when it's a problem. I like to look, you know, and and so the biggest thing for me, I went to school at a private school and I had private school loans and I went three times. And this time I was also in school while I was doing all that. And I was paying for that. But the biggest thing I learned that helped me was I had to put my pride aside because my pride was getting in the way of my progress.

And what I mean by that is I remember someone, one of my coworkers, Matt, he was like, yeah, I'm doing Doordarshan. And I was like, you know, I am not delivering groceries like I did not going to school all this time at work. Nagasaki's and I did not go to school all the time to deliver groceries or even still be babysitting at 28. And once I put my pride aside and I was like, Kiona, you're not too good to deliver groceries, you're not too good to deliver food, but you are too good to let this mountain of debt limit your future.

And once I had that mindset and it's a complete mindset shift that a lot of people it takes a while, but once you get there, you have no choice but to go along.

Yeah, boy, to go. I'm proud of you.

Hey, well done. I'm sure your mom and your and all those people are proud of you. Yeah, they're proud. They are probably more proud because though I'll stop talking about it as much, I, I remember the day we all went somewhere you're not allowed to start talking about.

It's like your job. It's what you do.

Oh yeah. They are literally they're great friends because they there was a running joke that you had to make plans with me two months out and they did it and they stuck by me and they're some of my biggest cheerleaders. So and it's funny. The other thing that I love to tell people is people the same people that might judge you for doing these side jobs are the same people. I would ask you how you did it when you're done. Yeah.

So that's why I'm like, you know, and it's OK to slow down. Just don't quit because there were times I was like, man, I'm tired of doing this. I'm tired and I'm tired of working.

But then that end goal of, you know, just realizing that short term sacrifice is going to yield long term results is like it's an incredible feeling when you start putting together a campaign and you're looking at ad copy, you're looking at the the buys and whatever it is we're doing to that you're in charge of to push Ramsey plus out there. How does going through this personally change?

How you do that, I think it allows you to connect on a deeper level, it allows you to say, I know what they're feeling, I know what it feels like to think that it's never going to go away. And I thought that I was working here and I still thought, man, I don't know if they're going to go away. And if you don't want it bad enough, it won't you will sit there and stare at you while you stare at it.

And it really is just having that mindset shift and knowing I'm going to feel the copy she writes might be a little sassy.

You're going to be a little bit more aggressive. I think she might be sassy now. Real.

Hey, Kiana, if you've got somebody out there right now whose pride is getting in the way of working some extra jobs, Jordache, whatever it is, what are you going to tell them? Give them some sass.

I'm going to let it out. I would just say just do it. And the only thing that stopping you is you. Well, other people think about you. I'm telling you the same people that are like, I don't know why she's doing that tells me the same people. That message you months later is like, hey, just want to hear a little bit more about that. I mean, do you think you were talking about like how much time do you have that's so perfect.

I love you. You're all so congratulations. Awesome. Seriously. So wonderful.

It's exactly how it works to set Toby Keith moment. How you like me now. You know, I love it. It's just so well done. So well done. So proud of you. I'm sure you've got a copy of Chris's book, Everyday Millionaires. If you don't, we'll make sure you get another one or give you wanted to give away for Christmas. That is the next chapter in your story. Without a doubt, 28 years old. You're on fire.

You are on fire. And and I think you got room in your budget for clothes.

Now, I do find that the best part. All right. Kiona Hastings', one of our own marketers at Ramsey Plaza, has been with us for about three years.

Sixty five thousand dollars paid off in 19 months, counted down.

Lazzara debt free scream three to one.

I'm debt free. And the crowd goes wild.

I love it, that's so funny because that is so fun. I have a feeling she's already a little better at her position. Yeah, this is the Dave Ramsey Show. Whenever people do, they're debt free screams, we always ask them what the key to making it happen was. And just like with Kiona, they always say the budget because the budget puts you in control of every dollar you bring in every month.

You tell your money where to go instead of wondering where it went. When you start a RAMSI plus membership, you'll get a you'll follow a step by step plan where you budget. You learn how to manage money the right way with Financial Peace University and you get fired up as you make progress on your debt free wealth building journey. And this is why we include every dollar, the world's best budgeting tool in your Ramsey plus membership. You get custom reports on your spending habits and you'll connect straight to your bank so your transactions show up in your budget, making it easy to do.

But it's the only way you win and you can try it all free with a trial.

Paramjit. Plus, don't wait another day.

You can do exactly what kind of debt and start your free trial. Just text the word begin to 33, seven, 89. That's begin. Text it to three three seven, eight, nine. Open phones at eight eight to five five two to five. My co-host today on The Dave Ramsey Show, Chris Hogan Ramsey, personality number one, best selling author club, is with us in Chattanooga.

Caleb, how are you? Hey, Dave and Chris, thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So I'm calling for some relationship advice. My girlfriend and I both graduated from college this past, May not working as a registered nurse. And I've been aggressively following the baby steps of my statement, which is my other day, my only debt. My girlfriend, she is a graphic designer. She only has student loans for her dad's house.

She's not making too much in her current job account today because I've been planning on proposing her in the coming months. And, you know, she's a great girl. She loves me. She loves a lot more. And I thought we were on the same page financially up until about a month and a half ago where I've been given some problems and it's now time for her to replace it. And kind of out of nowhere blindsided me. She got a three year Cali's, which is preferable.

And I understand my husband are not supposed to be telling our CNN Money, but this was a sign to me that we might not be on the same page financially sound, just looking for some advice today.

Wow. OK, so you guys have been together. How long, Kilim? Now, just over two years, OK, been together for two years at any point in that time outside of this car situation, has she indicated or shown you any reason you all weren't on the same page financially? Honestly, now she really is thrifty with their money. OK, I think one of the things I can add on to this was this about a year and a half ago, I had a father passed away and my grandmother and she had recently got a rather serious car, not completely new.

And my grandfather left that to me after. So I think in her mind, seeing a car kind of incentivized to pursue a newer car around it and like a better understand.

Well, I mean, what I was going back to was that there was not a history of her doing crazy things financially. But I think, you know, as you can obviously hear in your voice, this has bothered you and it's affecting you. I think it is important to sit down and talk to make sure that you guys are going to be on the same page before you move forward with any kind of engagement. And if there was a history of this, you know, where she was constantly doing stuff that I would tell you, you might need to readjust.

But if this car situation is the only thing, it'd be a matter of sitting down, really getting them on the same page financially and really gaining an understanding of how you're going to handle money moving forward.

Yeah. So, you know, there's a couple of ways to go at it, Kalabi one is you might even get some pre engagement counseling where the two of you sit down and say, you know, I think this is going towards marriage and we need to get some pre engagement counseling. But, you know, whether you do that or not. Number one, cause of divorce, number one, cause of fights in marriage is money. And you've already identified that this is a rough spot, and so, you know, maybe the conversation sounds like I'm you know, I think this relationship is getting really, really serious and it looks like it's progressing towards other things.

And so given that the this is you talking to her, given that the number one cause of marital problems ending in divorce sometimes is money problems and money fights, you and I are going to have to agree to be on the same page for us to continue to go forward because we can't get on the same page. We're setting ourselves up for failure.

Yeah. And we need to be on the same page. And so and here's what the same page sounds like. You leasing a car was stupid. You don't say it exactly that way, but somehow you've got to get that out there on the table and she's got to own that. It was a bad idea. Yeah, you know, the day she actually signed the lease, she told me after it completely blindsided me, which if you're if she's as serious about this relationship as you are, that's almost like lying.

Mm hmm. Yeah, I can tell children exactly excited on telling me to that same week I had them, you know, sending us some videos and Michelle and eating necklaces, why it's not the best idea.

So, yeah, yeah, this is a problem, too, because, I mean, it is only one time to Chris's point. But you're very wise to recognize that that you're not in agreement on this.

And getting an agreement on this is if I'm in your shoes, not because I'm Dave Ramsey, but just because it's the number one cause of problems.

Why not get rid of the number one cause of problems before you go forward?

Or you say, I'm going to enter a marriage where the number one cause of problems is going to exist. And that's kind of a dumb path, you know?

So, I mean, it's not going to be perfect ever, Sharon.

And I don't always agree. We've been married 38 years.

I mean, sometimes she has to tell me when I'm right, but but, you know, you or when I'm not more often.

But anyway, so, you know, you guys need to get on.

You need to somehow get this out on the table that us being on the same page going forward is a deal breaker because it's a deal breaker, not because you're being a butt and not because you're trying to be legalistic.

Right. Because the you not being on the same page is going to cause constant freaking strife.

Yeah. But, you know, and so that's what you've got to deal with. So but yeah, some good communication and it wouldn't hurt to have a counselor help you do it.

But but this for you, for you is a major problem. And it's wise to recognize since it is the number one thing to talk about.

Number one thing. Yeah. And I would hold off on doing anything and then advancing the relationship until you felt really good and clear about how you guys are going to proceed moving forward.

Now, you seem to have changed. Look you in the eye and you all are in agreement. Yeah. I mean, what and if that takes another six months, it takes another six months or if it takes another six months.

But good pre marriage counseling, even when engaged, could pre marriage counseling will sometimes prevent a couple from getting married?

Yeah, well, absolutely it will. And that's that's what it's all about.

You need to you need, you know, somebody that just checks boxes in your marriage counseling is a bad idea. There's I have very high correlation of successful marriage and in-depth, detailed pre marriage counseling.

All three of my kids did in-depth pre marriage counseling, and it was about the only thing I insisted on. I didn't even insist on Financial Peace University, but I just said, guys, just so much, you know, no one freakin my kid, which set you up for weirdness to start with, with the with the prosperity and with the spotlight, both with, you know and you know, and the fact that I'm kind of a weak and withdrawn personality.

And so that makes it hard for our kids to this. I don't know where I stand on things so, so weak. They just don't they don't know. I don't know what my opinion is. Also, I'm kind of a wallflower, Einaudi Jimminy Christmas.

But I mean, can you imagine the nightmare it is to be my kid? Not only can you imagine the nightmare of of the the son in law. Yeah. The boy trying to date or the girl that's intimidating. Yeah.

And so you need to you need to go ahead and get all that stuff fleshed out ahead of time. And so and that's true in anybody's life. Sometimes in our situation magnified the impact of it. But all three of our kids will tell you as best thing they did, that's smarter for getting married. Caleb, I'm proud of you, buddy. Thanks for reaching out. Hey, man, seriously, I'll be OK, but deal with it, dude.

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