Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the car rental studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show where that is dumb as the pain of home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Ken Coleman Ramsey, personality, host of the Get in Coleman Show, is my co-host.

Today here on the air, we're taking your questions about your life, money and your careers, your questions about your job.

Maybe you need one in the middle of a pandemic, the end of a pandemic, whatever we are, the one thing I am sure of.

Can the phone number, by the way, triple eight eight to five five two two five. I did notice that it's almost November 1st, which means the dumpster fire is about to go out. Yeah. Called 20-20. That's right. The year of the dumpster fire could not get here any quicker.

And so I figure I'm having this unbelievable, outlandish New Year's Eve party. Yeah, I'm in to just say everything bad stays back there in 2020. We're moving forward. Yeah.

Is that mean we're going to burn a lot of things as a symbolic gesture? Yes.

I want to burn some stuff for all of you boys. All boys are pyros. You have to burn stuff. Yeah, well, it's a cleansing process. You know, when you want it, it's there and then it's just ashes and then we can move on to 2021. Yeah.

Yeah, I hope that happens. It's going to happen. All right. I'll guarantee you I'll be burning some stuff.

Oh, I know that. I just hope we can all move on to twenty, twenty one. Well we all aren't going to do anything but some. But you and me already moved. Three people have.

Yes. Seven of us. Hey, good things are happening though. You know, we're seeing job numbers. The unemployment numbers are now dropping. We're in the seven percent who would have even seven percent unemployment. Yeah, we're in the low self down from forty.

Yeah. Unbelievable. So, you know, Dave, you know, was telling. Did you hear that reported on the nightly news? No, you don't. And that was I was about to say this, the war I don't know if it's just me and Stacy. We're talking about the other night, the world that I hear and read and see from the media is very different than the world here that I live in our zip code now that I live in.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't see what I mean in other cities.

I've been in other cities and it's, you know, it's they're not burning. No riots. Yeah.

And they're not there's people out walking around. Yeah. Doing business. Yeah. Shaking hands. Yeah. Hugging necks. We were with hundreds of we were not trapped in their basements hiding. No.

We had a bunch of people on our master series last week and they're from all around the country.

They're winning. Yeah, they're winning. Well and they're like their interactions are fairly normal, unlike a wisoff presidential debate, right.

Oh my God. I mean, can you put any more could you put up more Plexiglas, please? Yes. For Iran to support the entire plexiglass industry, those watching on YouTube right now, look at this. There's no Plexiglas between me and Dave. There's no Plexiglas.

We're OK. Yeah, but you almost touch me. You need to be careful with that.

Key word is almost I do know my boundaries. I know we're not to file a complaint. Oh, wait a minute. I'm the complaint department. You're the CEO. That would go right to.

You know, I think what's exciting, Dave, is I think we're beginning to see there is a there is a fatigue. It's not good. People should be alone. No, but, you know, there's fear fatigue.

I think I think, you know, the boy that cried, tired of the fear, people stopped listening to the boy that cried wolf at a certain point, I think it's time for good men and women to go. You know what? There's no reason for you to be scared as time to get back to life. It's time to get back to solving problems for people. It's time to get back to doing what we were created to do. And we're just going to roll with the punches.

That's life. Life is uncertain and we can't walk around being scared about what boogie man is going to jump out from behind the corner all the time. Well, there's always risk. I was talking to one of our one of our leaders at lunch a while ago, sitting in a cafe area with our team and just plop down a table and see my 16 year old Scotch pilot's license. Oh, how fun. So he's a lot more safe there than he is driving up the interstate to get to the airport.

It's because no one in a cockpit ever eats a Big Mac puts on makeup and text while they're driving through your look.

I make it dangerous on the interstate. Right? You are safe when you're in an airplane, you know, comparatively speaking. And and yet we do get into an aluminum tube and fly through the air.

Yeah. At Rapide miles per hour. Yeah. And call that good. Yeah.

Yeah. It's going to be nice to fly places again too. This is exciting.

My wife said I'm Miss Cruises. I don't know. That's a sensitive topic for you. I don't.

Well I don't. Sensitive topic for a lot of reasons. But I don't just generally and just as a Dave statement, I don't miss cruises. But yeah, the Ramsay cruise being canceled is still still an issue.

Yeah. All right. In open phones at eight eight two five. Five two two five, Ken Coleman is my co-host today. Rick is in York, Pennsylvania. Hi, Rick. How are you? Hi, Dave. How are you? Great. How can we help? I have a question. I am sixty six. My wife is about to turn 67. We're both retiring at the end of the year. And I don't know how to focus my savings now that I have reached retirement or if you could give me some guidance.

I'm sorry, I don't focus and focus on what what do you think I've been saving 15 percent for retirement. Now I'm there. What do I do now? Oh, OK. Well, how much do you have saved? How much is your nest egg? We're sitting in about a million and a half ago, Max. Good for you. Every day, millionaire, did you inherit this or do you save it all? It was all working, we didn't inherit anything.

OK, so that whole mythology thing of everybody inherits their wealth is a bunch of crap. We knew that, by the way. But anyway.

All right, so you work for it. You're 66. You got a million and a half. So obviously you're going to use it to live off of, correct?

Yes, sir. And so some of the investment returns are to live off of you don't necessarily have to grow it any more.

If you want to. You can.

I mean, you very likely will live another 20 or 25 years.

Statistically, I'm hoping. Well, the average, you know. Well, I like it here. There you go. And so far, it's worked out for you. You're a millionaire, so, you know, good for you.

So, I mean, I guess you set your mutual funds up in your investments up to where you draw enough off of them to live and have the good life and be outrageously generous.

And you have kids? Yes, sir. I got four. OK, and so at some point you're managing at some point you're managing the investment to leave it to them to change your family tree, right?

Yes, sir.

And so I'm going to pour into that legacy, meaning I'm going to have discussions with them on what it looks like when they get this money so they don't screw it up after you spent your whole life building it.

And so we've had a lot of those Ramsey discussions. And otherwise, I mean, if you're stupid or you're misbehaving, you're out of the will because I can't leave God's money to you for you to manage because you're a bad manager.

And so these are the discussions we have around our house, you know. So you're doing cocaine. We can't really leave you a bunch of money. You kill yourself with cocaine. It's just dumb. So, you know, misbehavior doesn't get funded at inheritance.

But, yeah. So you're saving money to enjoy, to be generous and to change your family tree. Agreed. Yes, sir. And you just manage the portfolio to do that and you can continue to grow it, I you know, I'm just right behind you. I'm 60 and I'm saving and investing regularly. Like, I act like I'm 30. I just keep keep going. And it's all about legacy at this stage.

Can't it is in contribution. Just because you're retiring doesn't mean you stop contributing. Maybe that's a part time thing. Maybe that's a charity effort. Maybe that's a new business. What do you want to do to assume that you're not going to make any more money the rest of your life is, I think, shortsighted. He didn't say that. We didn't get into that. But what's your contribution? Anybody that's listening right now in your 60s and you retired just because you're tired, does it mean that you're no longer a legacy?

What's your legacy? That's it. What do you want to pour into the. A lot of people do some very cool stuff with a couple of million dollars when they hit retirement. That's cool stuff you can do with that much money. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Your timeshare is a debt, not an asset. There is no equity in it, but there are annual fees. In fact, in response to covid-19, timeshare developers are actually sending out special assessment fees.

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Some exclusions apply see site for details. Ken Coleman Ramsey, personality host of The Ken Coleman Show, where he talks to folks every day about their careers, their jobs, their dreams, living, their passions, open phones here as we talk to you about your life, your money and your career. Phone number eight eight two five five two two five. Teresa is with us, Teresa in Tampa, Florida. Hi, Teresa. How are you? Hi, Dave.

My kids are going to be super excited. They've been listening to you since they were babies. Wow, cool. How can we help?

OK, so we bought our home that we currently live in four years ago. Would it be a loan is a 30 year mortgage. But our our home prior to this, we have paid off early. So we had a large down payment to put on it. We're looking to refinance. And my question is, because the loan in all is that the streamlined version of the refinance, you have to lower your monthly payment by a certain amount in order to qualify that.

Just kind of part of the rules. If we if we went into a 15 year, we wouldn't qualify. So we could only refinance too much because it wouldn't sell the house if they said it wouldn't lower our monthly payment enough.

Well, no, no, no, no. I'm sorry. You understand, you could do a 15 year conventional. Do you not qualify for that? Well, I haven't looked into it, honestly, OK, because the V.A., the V.A. streamlined may not be a good deal anyway. OK. And it does happen. Does have the regulations or the rules on it that you're talking about, where the payment has to go down and see what streamline is, is there's no closing costs and no no out of pocket at all.

But the interest rates are higher than more closing costs. So the closing costs, we're going to be about 7000 dollars on the VA and.

Yes, really.

OK, well, you definitely want to go conventional that. OK, well, I haven't looked into that. My question was going to be we're planning on paying off this mortgage early anyway. We paid off our last mortgage after 12 years of living in the house, and we only found Dave Ramsey maybe halfway into that. So so we really buckle down. And my husband did just get an increase. He's getting a new job this year, which should be about 20000 more a year than we were making.

So our plan is to pay it off early. I didn't know if it would make sense to even refinance if we're going to be paying it down early anyway. How early? So our house is about three hundred and eleven thousand dollars last, and I think we could probably throw an extra thirty thousand dollars at that, I'd like to put his entire increase plus a little bit more extra in addition to our monthly payments for about 10 years.

Well, 30000 in addition to what I know to our normal monthly payment. Yeah, so yeah.

Yeah. I mean, here's the thing. Here's the calculation for you. Go to church, your mortgage and find out the interest rate on the new loan. What is the interest rate on the loan? Currently, we're three point twenty five and we've been getting about a two point twenty five is what they're offering us. OK, so you can probably get a two point twenty five or less on a conventional OK, but usually conventional.

You can't get as low of an interest rate, though, is that correct? No, it's not correct.

OK. Yes, usually slightly higher. OK. And so if you check with Churchill and you find you can get a two and a quarter versus the third quarter, that's a one percent drop. That's 3000 dollars a year. Saved in interest on a 300000 auto loan.

Agreed? Yes. You divide that three thousand dollars in your closing costs.

Let's pretend you're closing costs for seven thousand dollars for the conventional. And so how long does it take to break even with a 3000 dollar savings on a 7000 lower cost, a little over to a little over two, two years?

Yeah, yeah.

So if you're going to pay off kind of later, figuring I knew if you're going to pay it off later than two years, then you go ahead and you do the refinance. Absolutely worth it's a no brainer. Yeah, I mean, but if you're going to if you can't pay it off in three years, I wouldn't screw it. It's not worth it.

I mean, you're going to save three thousand dollars on 300000 and do a bunch of work for that, and it's going to be worth it.

But if it's going to take you eight or nine years, you're going to save three thousand dollars for pasture closing costs for five years.

That's where that starts to be. Some money then. And a little bit it's not it's not a ton of money either way.

But yeah, get with Churchill and get a quote on a conventional VA is the most expensive of the loans among FHA, VA and conventional, the most expensive of them.

Open phones at eight eight two five five two to five. Ken Coleman, my co-host today. Quick on that break. Even Matthew over there. Ken.

Yes, well, you looked at me and I was like, Dave, you've got this one. But I'll throw a little something in there because you know how strong I am on the money question.

Rick is in Fort Lauderdale. Hey, Rick, what's up?

Oh, not much. I'm doing great. Great talking to you guys, 62 years old. I'm active duty military and I'm retiring in two years. And retirement classes have gone to are pushing the survivor benefit plan. And I really don't think that I should participate in it. And I just want to know your take on that.

Well, thank you for your service. OK, so the survivor benefit plan works like this. As you know, you take less per month and then your wife gets it for her life. Right.

OK, if you took the difference per month, you took the full benefit with no survivor and took that extra amount that you're getting above what you would have been getting had you done the survivor and invest that it won't be long before that investment is big enough to pay that difference.

Right.

In the interim, if you want to cover the difference, you could buy a term life insurance policy to make sure your wife is has a survivor benefit from that, since you're not buying one by taking less money from the military.

So how healthy are the two of you were both the same age 62, fairly healthy. We both our families have live in their 90s. And I think my net worth would negate even thinking thinking about it. And so what's your net worth?

About one point eight. Okay, so if you die, she's OK.

That's what I'm saying. So you take the big check. Right. Right. You know, and she's OK if you die prematurely because she doesn't not get to eat because you didn't do the survivor benefit easily. She's OK with one point eight. You don't have to take out a term policy to cover the difference. But the calculation works like this. If you just take have you have you have you run the calculation both ways, what it's going to be?

Yes. What's the difference between the two? Well, gosh, this it's quite substantial. Yeah.

And what's the difference? I mean, per per month, if I were right now, based on what my retirement pay will be going to be like five hundred eighty seven dollars a month difference. Yes.

OK, so if you run 600 bucks a month into an investment, how long before you have enough to cover the whole stinking thing? Not long, really. Seventy two hundred dollars a year. That's substantial. Right. Right. And so, you know, that's why you're doing this correctly and. But what what the people in the retirement class are the people they're speaking to, most of them are broke. And you're not broke, and so if you're broke and uninsurable, you've got to do the survivor, even though it's not as good a deal because mom got to have something to eat with when you die.

But mama, in your case, is in great shape because you have done a phenomenal job, that's to millionaires we've talked to. Yeah, she's going to be able to buy many pairs of shoes. You did that calculation quickly, did you?

Again, I'm very sharp today. I'm at the top of my game.

I think so. But I mean, it's interesting that we're getting all these millionaire calls. It is everyday millionaires. Chris Hogan, Hoggins, a happy man here. Well, stories are everywhere. There are. And. I don't know, there's a thing in the air right now that says that you can't win in America and, you know, you and I have seen for too many years that that is just not the case.

This is a this is a gentleman who served our country. Yeah. And as we saw it with the everyday millionaire book in the study, teachers, everyday millionaires. So this idea that you can't win and you can't save money and you can't be a millionaire if you don't have this big, glitzy, glamorous job, well, it's just completely a myth or the only way you have wealth is to inherit it.

That's to see if you can establish that lie in America.

The only way you have wealth is to inherit it. You didn't earn it then. That makes it easier to say take the money away from them.

But if you establish the truth that everybody earned their wealth and by and large we're seeing a 93 percent of the millionaires earned their wealth, then it makes the argument to take it away from them violent really quickly. Yes, because you're now stealing my stuff that I earned. That's right. At the point of a gun from a government. Now, your wealth just redistribution crap melts down into violence pretty quick. Yeah, because I'm violent about my stuff, especially when you earn it.

This is the Dave Ramsey Show. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage, Bill and Olivia are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? What's up? How are you? Welcome. Welcome. Where do you guys live? San Diego, California.

And all the way to Nashville to do a debt free scream. Feel weird being here a little different.

Yes. Yeah, it's a wee bit different. Yeah. Well, we're glad you're with us. How much have you paid off?

We paid off 76000, 800 dollars. Oh, right. How long did this take you? Eight months. Way to go. And your range of income during that time.

We started at 96 and we went all the way up to 160. Wow.

Oh. What do you do for a living and how did that happen? And my own pet care business idea. Dog barking, dog training, pet care.

And it went bananas during covid. Oh, yeah. Wow.

I'm colobus proud people and take care of their own dogs because they were home anyway. You knew they wanted you to do it. Yeah. Good. Good for you.

Very cool. So the pet business is booming in San Diego. What kind of debt was the 77000?

We were normal. We had four credit cards, two cars and 41000 in student loans. Wow.

So what got you got started on this 18 months ago?

How'd you find us? Well, it's kind of a longer story than that. But my mom, Carol, she actually gave me her book when I was in my early 20s and I looked at it.

Then it sat in the shelf, pretty much pretty much a coaster on the coffee table. You know, if it was even though I was mostly in, like, the bookshelf way back in there. Yes. Oh, look at it. I was getting my haircut from a friend, and she had mentioned that she had just gone through FPU with her husband. And she know she kind of inspired me to get the book back out. And so I did.

I read it. And then they got really excited, you know, and then came to my wife and said, hey, let's do a few.

So then we took the class. He convinced me to take the class.

And how did he talk you into doing that?

No, he was like, we need to combine our incomes. You know, we're getting married and, you know, we need to get on the same page about money. And I knew I need I'm on the bender. I need it. I needed help in that, you know, area. So I agreed, reluctantly went to the class, stomping my feet.

Dragging your toes. Yeah, OK. I completed the class and I still wasn't really on board. And then while we were at work, because we both listen to podcast while we're working, he sent me one of your podcasts and I listened to my first debt free scream and I almost cried and then realized that, wow, anybody could do this. So after that I was on board. And then during this journey to try not to cry, we both became sober.

And once we became sober, it really, you know, got our debt snowball going.

Oh, wow. Good for you guys. Pretty amazing. So how long have you been sober? Two years.

Wow. Good for you. Well, proud of credible. Great job. That's more important than other stuff. Yeah. Well done.

Dave, I want to ask real quick, what do you all believe, looking back on the journey, what was the connection between getting out of debt and deciding to get clean?

Well, we realized that so much or we were kind of like at the time our budgets were together. So we were kind of lying to one another about what we were spending money on and, you know, kind of like drinking and kind of going out and all that stuff kind of led to like making bad decisions. So especially, you know, eating out and everything else, like not talking about things with each other. And you just didn't communicate very well.

And like, really, when we became sober, the communication thing was really the thing that worked and like combining our incomes and all that stuff and like doing everything together, that was really the thing that kind of set it off for us.

Wow. Yeah. So a lot of mental health going on here. Yeah. Yeah. Between the two things working together, we see that a lot.

Discipline begets discipline. Yes, self-control begets self-control. And so it's not unusual for us to have somebody that does it debt free scream that's also lost 30 pounds or whatever, you know.

And so, but you guys are engaged in some really, really tough personal work during this time. But it sets your whole life free then. Yeah. When you can when you can get control of these areas. Yes.

As just you were just out of control before, which most people are.

But I got into trouble. Yeah. Really. Really. So what do you tell people?

The key to getting out of debt is now that you did it, I would say I'm the spender. So I would say saying no a lot and being OK with saying no, no. And definitely. Did you ever get used to it? Well, now I'm so used to it that I don't know how to spend.

Oh, you went the other way. You went the other direction. All right. But definitely intentionality and just paying attention, working together. I know we had some we had some budget fights here and there, but they made us stronger for sure. So I would say intentionality.

And so what was the biggest budget fight about the worst one? Oh, what was that, I think it was mostly I think it was like probably self care, like I always wanted to be like, can I get a facial? He's like, no, we're getting out of debt. This is like I mean, I think it was nothing really major. We never make fun of or anything huge like. But there was this times where it's this tension, you know, like I think I'm always really goal oriented and I want to get things done as fast as possible.

And I'm like, I'm pushing her, you know, to go faster. I want to get a facial is different than self care. I mean, you tell your wife you can't have self care. What kind of man does that? I want to have a facial, not on a budget. It's like when you put it under the self care, that's a great phrase. You can put a lot of crap onto the back. Yeah, she does.

It seems like it seems like a more worse time next time I'm buying a gun. I'm not sure. And that's health care. It's a great self care. Now you relieve tension. That's right. So it's awesome. I love it. So cool.

So what advice do you have to couples who are struggling with that tension in the air over the budget? How do you get through that? Because what you what you've been through is tough.

Yeah, I think honestly, like communicating with each other was huge. And then you really do have to give each other a lot of grace, first of all, and then give up a lot of what you want for the other person. And I think that was huge. But the thing is that makes it better is that it's difficult. But what makes it better is that you start to communicate with each other. And I think that's the thing like, you know, through sobriety, you learn to have you know, a lot of you have to look inside of yourself and see a lot of things that are wrong.

Yeah. And try to change them and really, like both those things working together have led to way better communication in our marriage. And I think that's the thing that makes us happy. Like we can talk about anything and it's fine, like there's nothing that's taboo anymore. And I think that's the thing that helps us, like, make it.

That's very, very cool. How long y'all been married? Three and a half years now. All right. Oh, you didn't really notice what it means. Yeah, yeah. You got to get to any point at all. There was a little bit of a question in the way he said it. I got three and a half feet. Yeah, OK. But he got close enough that he gets points, right. He's good. Very good.

Well done. Very well done. I'm very proud of you.

So did your 12 step or what you do.

Yes. Yeah. OK, I thought I heard the language. Good. Very good.

What's a successful program. You two successful programs.

You plugged into all that stuff, Dave. Baby steps and 12 steps almost out of step in going on here. Just checked my steps for the day. Yeah. Well done you all. Very well done. And you brought your daughter with you. Yeah.

OK, here. And how old is she? She's going to be ten on Saturday. All right. Way to go, Lily. Well, welcome to Nashville.

Has she been practicing today? Oh, yeah. You're her idol for sure. Oh, my gosh. We need to work on that.

All right. Phil and Olivia Lily from San Diego. Seventy seven thousand dollars paid off in eighteen months.

Make a ninety six to one sixty and sobriety during that time. I'm so proud of y'all. Thank you, Countdown. Let's hear a great debt free scream. I'm ready. Three, two, one.

Why don't fret. Very, very good stuff. Oh, man, you know, we see that overlap in the marriages, we see the overlap in, you know, sobriety and weight loss and careers that when they get when folks get intentional about controlling one area of their lives and grab it, you know, grabbing the variables, they change careers.

That's right. A number of times, I mean, look at look at what their income did.

Oh, the huge jump. When you change the way you think, what you what you have seen folks in this story as they change the way they thought about finances, they thought it was possible. Love that she said she listen to a podcast. She heard a debt free scream and she said, anybody can do this. That's a change in mindset. When we change what we think, we change what we act. You cannot change the way you act until you change the way you think.

And when you can see this baby step leads to this baby step. And I can do this and you begin to experience the momentum and that debt snowball, then it changes your perspective on everything. You can get sober, you can get a better job. It really is beautiful to see.

You know, I know the great looking couple and why to go. Lily, you're great defreeze grammer. Good stuff. Those people are heroes right there, man. They just they just changed their whole lives.

So impressive. Incredible. And the impact they're going to have. Unbelievable. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. So the debt free screams on YouTube were the thing that turned the young lady around, Olivia, just a minute ago, but going through financial peace university laid the foundation for them to be able to do the work.

Plus's one membership for a year, you can do a free trial on it. You get Financial Peace University, the class that teaches you how to handle money the right way, not only getting out of debt and on a budget, but building wealth and being outrageously generous, learning how to live like no one else.

So later you can live and give like no one else. You get the premium version of every dollar. You get the Baby Steps Tracker app and you don't have to figure out your money problems alone.

You're plugged into communities, you've got access to financial coaches, we are going to be all up in your business, we're going to be walking with you, holding your hand, kicking your butt, whatever it takes to get you to move along.

Go to Dave Ramsey, Dotcom Slash Ramsey plus for the free trial, Dave Ramsey Dotcom slash Ramsey plus. Joel is with us in Massachusetts. Hey, Joel, how are you? Good afternoon, Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Thanks for taking my call. So my wife and I are we just accepted an offer on investment property that we have and after taxes and commission and everything, we're going to take home one hundred and thirty thousand.

Cool. Yeah. So my question is, what do I do with that? And the situation is that we have no debt besides our primary residence mortgage, which is two hundred and seventy thousand and a 30 year conventional and another investment property, which is one hundred and fifty thousand in a 30 year conventional. So I just obviously want to completely get out of debt and pay those off good as fast as possible. And I'm not sure the best way to go about that.

So what's your household income? Annually, about 190000 between the two of us, but it grows, but it fluctuates got any money that's not in retirement then other than the emergency funds?

Yes, about 60000 in a stock, a total stock market index fund. I think you're going to pay off your personal residence with that and your proceeds. So that would leave, so we'll 270 on the personal residence. Oh, I don't quite get it. OK, yeah, not quite, you know. Yeah, but you make 200 a year.

So you're done in two more years, though. Yeah, I'm throwing the total I'm throwing the stock fund and the proceeds at my personal residence and I will get my house paid off in 18, 24 months, and then I'll reach over and pay off the the other one.

You can go the other way. The way I'm analyzing this and you can decide how you want to do it, then, Joe, is I'm looking at it from a risk management perspective, meaning if if the world went crazy. Oh, wait.

It just did. Yeah. And I ended up losing something. One of these two properties, because I couldn't pay the bill on one of them, but I could on the other one, or I had one of them paid for and one wasn't. So I ended up losing it. Which one would I want to lose?

Will my you know, obviously I'd like to have my home protected from. Weird world circumstances, and then I'd go over and I'd pay off the other. So the only reason I'm diving on the ball for your home is I'd like to get it paid off from a risk management perspective.

But if you go the other way, you know, it's not the end of the world. OK, that makes the other thing about going the other way, as it would free the property is rented and makes money so it would free up or provide another approximately twelve thousand dollars in cash flow per year. Right.

You know, and that's going to help on the other. But you're still you've still got a lot of money to go.

So, you know, if I cash out the index fund completely and some, I'd have some to throw at your residence and pay off the rental, you can go that route.

The only reason I would go the other way if they were closer or I could get your house completely paid off, it'd be a slam dunk for me to move on to your house first just because something happens inside of you when your home doesn't have a payment.

We don't perceive that it's like having a low grade backache.

You don't even think about it anymore. You just used to a mortgage. And when you get rid of it, you realize you were carrying around this low grade backache. It's like you have this 30 pound bum dumped on your pocket.

No question I understood what you said. So with his other scenario, if he pays off the rental and he gets the extra twelve thousand a year thrown off in profit, he's debt free on that. If something were to happen, does he still have that same backup plan, assuming he could live in the rental car being moved to the rental that gives him that? That's less than ideal if you had the right pandemic going sideways here or whatever, that kind of stuff.

So and, you know, it's interesting that I used to. You know how people go well, I mean, yeah, but these worst case scenarios don't happen, and now that I got 20/20 in my back pocket, I can just pull that out and use it whenever I want. Right. So don't don't tell me about worst case scenarios. Never happen. You couldn't even spell pandemic 12 months ago. Oh, boy. And that the truth and all of a sudden now you got this thing.

So I mean, it truly is. I was going to talk with Ontari leaders the other day that were in town for that event. And small business guys, I told them, look, when you're out of that and I read the three little pigs to him and I'm like, when you're out of debt and you have your emergency fund and the big bad wolf comes, you're the third pig. And I think I'm on duty. Schertz be the third pig.

I like that because we all know what the third pig was. He's the one. And what kind of house of the stone was a brick house, brick house, a brick house. And he huffed and puffed and pandemic pandemic couldn't get in right now.

And 2008 couldn't get in and 911 couldn't get in. And whatever other scenario where the world is a falling of freaking apart in your life or culturally, they can't get in, be the third pig.

And that's all I'm doing here with this guy is the same exact thing I have in your home paid for. You're the third pig. It's, you know, when when crap comes up. Yep. One less thing to worry about what Forrest Gump said, you know, it's one less thing to worry about. It's true. And so, you know, when all this stuff hit the stress it was on me, had nothing to do with Sharon and I being OK.

It was all on just protecting the team here and making sure this place stayed open because the families here depend on us to eat. That was the stress that we had. But it wasn't like, oh, we're going to lose our home. Oh, we're not going to have food. Oh, we're not going to have whatever we have, whatever we want.

Still, any time we wanted it, as long as you could find some way to get it in the middle of a pandemic shutdown.

Yeah, and and that's the key word.

Shutdown, folks, I don't care where you're at on this whole thing, but what we can all agree on is that we didn't know what was really happening. No, no official really did. Even the health officials in the scientists really didn't know what was going on. Oh, that's proven. And what we saw is that government has the power to artificially shut down an economy instantly, instantly was almost like hitting a red button and the roller coaster stopped in the middle of the tracks.

And we have to be really wary of that in the future because this was an artificial shutdown, not just in the United States. We're talking about all around the globe. And you're seeing governments in Europe now go to a second shutdown. And and so we have to understand that what they've seen here, you can't control what a governor or a mayor or a president, depending on the laws of of a nation or radical health department official.

Yeah, you can't control that.

And they can artificially take your ability away to earn and some of your cash for if you're debt free and you're a cash rich and ready to go and you can you can pivot with whatever pandemic is coming your way, that's the place to be. And if this is not the wake up call, I don't know what's going to wake up some people.

But this is why we have to be wary of government and artificial shutdowns. You can't control what they do.

Well, it's you know, you have to do the hard work. It's harder work to build a brick house than it was the straw house or the wood house of sticks. They wind up quicker. They were cheaper. They were easier. It was. But there's no shortcut to any place it's worth going. And you've got to do the hard work. And when you do the hard work in your life and and you're financially sober and you're sober and you've got a career track that's working, you've got you got you built skills that are marketable.

You just give yourself options when times are good and you give yourself options when times are bad. This is the only set of principles in money or life that work in both types.

Yeah, that's true.

The borrowing good debt only works in good times. There is no good debt in bad times. You know, when the tide goes out, Warren Buffett said you can tell he was skinny dipping.

Your principles are revealed to be lacking. And that's what, you know, stupid is unveiled and you can see it real clearly. And it's causing a bunch of stress and a bunch of pain.

Never again, people never again be the third pick. This is the Dave Ramsey Show.

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