Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the car rental studios. It's the Dave Ramsey Show where dad is dumb. Cash is king. The vote for. Taking the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice, Doctor John Maloney, Ramsha personality, is my co-host on the air this hour. Open phones here as we talk about your life and your money. The phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five. That's triple eight eight two five five two two five.

Let's head straight to the phones and talk to Eric in Illinois. Hi, Eric. How are you?

I'm good, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. Mom, what's up?

I am currently about 90 grand in unsecured credit card debt. I'm 14 months done with a debt settlement program through a company. Oh, no. And I'm starting to second guess whether or not I should have done this. And what are my options? Should I withdraw from the program? Should I continue doing what I'm doing? Do I file bankruptcy? It's 90000 dollars in credit cards.

Yes.

You've been with them nine months. So you're nine months. I'm sorry. 14 months, 14 months, I'm sorry. So you're at least 14 months behind, right? Yes, because you stopped paying them and so did they.

Correct, and then they they've been taking a payment from you every month and they're building it up to make lump sum offers and try to settle after they put you into default on every one of these, right?

Correct. Yeah. Those people suck. They're complete scam artists.

And then worse than that. That's the theory of how it's supposed to work. But worse than that, they haven't actually followed through and gotten the settlements done. And they don't return your calls or emails.

Is that right? Sounds about right. Yes. OK. You got to stay on them. Yeah, they're in. We have an answer for you when you when you call them back. Yeah.

They're incompetent and they don't care and they've not executed on what they promised. And what they promised to start with was a bad plan. But they haven't even executed on that. And that's what we run into when. I'm so sorry. I can hear your voice, man. You were trying to get help. Hmm.

Oh, what is your household income? On the books I make, probably about 70. What's that mean? What is off the books? Me?

Well, I well, I also deliver pizzas and I probably make about two grand a month take home with that. Okay, so we're dealing with 100000. Are you single? Yes, OK, and other debt that you have other than this 90000. Nothing, I don't know if it's a bad thing or not, but I just paid off my snap on Twitter account, which was six hundred bucks, and my car, which is six hundred bucks. So I don't have any other debt out there.

What do you do for a living? I'm a diesel mechanic. Oh, and that's the snap on tools. OK, good, so you're paying cash for that stuff from now on, as you do need tools to do your business. Oh, good news as diesel mechanic can make some money, why aren't you doing more diesel mechanics than delivering pizzas? You'd make more money on just Saathoff?

Yes, I don't really have a good answer for that, except that I haven't found anything that I can do part time or, you know, OK, or Shakeri for side jobs, you know, shade tree or whatever.

OK, yeah, I'd be poking around looking for that because as you know, you're pretty valuable commodity.

I mean, I know diesel mechanics that that when they're cranking it up they're doing work on a bunch of hours, but they're making 100k. And so you're making a mistake, you're making 100K, but you're doing it through pizzas and doing it the hard way. So, all right.

So here's the deal, OK, if you file bankruptcy, what will occur is, of course, your credit is destroyed. Oh, hello. Your credit's already destroyed, right?

It's not a five 60, you're in default and you're on ninety thousand dollars worth of credit cards for 14 months, your credit screwed agreed. OK, bankruptcy, I mean, it may be it's an eight out of 10 and bankruptcy is a 10 out of 10, so you'll just finish it off. But it's already on its last legs. So we're not worried about your credit. That's not our goal, number one.

Goal number one is for Eric to get his life back home from all of these shysters that you've gotten involved with, from credit card companies to debt relief companies. So if you file bankruptcy, it makes it go away and the credit is destroyed. So Chapter seven, bankruptcy is a possibility.

I view bankruptcy from a moral perspective to be like divorce. Sometimes it happens to good people, but I would if I were there and I went through a bankruptcy in my 20s and so I've experienced the hell that it is.

It's not a fun process.

It's an anal exam, you won't like it, the you know, it's just it's it's bad.

And so but aside from that, I would want to know from a character standpoint that I had done everything I could to save my marriage and then some more before I actually went through a divorce. I want to know.

And I did. I left it all on the field. I had no regrets. I had done everything I knew how to do before I filed.

And so that's how I'm going to answer the question.

If I were you, I would file bankruptcy only after I've done everything I could do. Now I can give you some stuff to try if you want to do that. Yes, I'm willing to listen and call debt relief people up and tell them they get no more money and you're not working with them no more, cancel it. OK, so how much you've been sending them a month, 11, 45.

And how much can you scrape together if you go hog wild and crazy? Can you save three thousand dollars a month? Definitely. I just started doing your budget app in the last couple of weeks, I just started listening to you in the last couple of week.

So what we're going to do is make a list of things about or make a list of these credit cards, smallest to largest. You're not going to pay them anymore. You've already quit paying them. They're already in default. We're going to leave them there. That'll keep them somewhat pliable.

I think that over the next 12 months, you can settle this for somewhere around 25 cents on the dollar. So somewhere around 20000 dollars makes you free.

But it's going to entail a lot of hours of you on the phone with absolute morons called credit card collectors and negotiating with them. OK, so you call up what's your smallest credit card? Probably six grand. I don't have exact numbers, but just make sure we use that as our example, that's your smallest one. You call them up and you say, I have two thousand dollars. Do you want it? I have 90000 thousand dollars in other credit card companies.

If you don't want it, I'm going to call the next guy on the list.

Do you want it or not, as settlement info for this debt and you begin to argue with him and you get them to two thousand dollars, 30 cents on the dollar, 20 cents on the dollar in lump sum cash. You can only do that as you pile up the cash each month at three or four thousand a month.

Right. Making sense to you? Yeah, so you settled the smallest one, then you sell the next smallest one, then you sell the next smallest one, I really think you can settle this for around twenty twenty five thousand dollars. And I think you're debt free in a year and your credit will begin to heal after that. And you're not bankrupt. You just need a plan. Now, you've got a lot of heartache dealing with credit card collectors for the next year.

They're a pain in the butt. You're not dealing with intelligent life. It's the island of misfit toys. It's a problem. Get it in writing every time you do this and do not give them electronic access to your checking account. I'm going to walk with you, Eric. We're going to give you a Ramsey plus financial piece and a financial counselor to help you for free for the next year. We're going to get you out of this. If you walk it, I'll show you how to hold on.

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Some exclusions apply see site for details. Dr. John Dolan, Chief Ramsey personality, my co-host on the air, couldn't have told it by the last segment because you were enthralled by debt relief companies. I didn't know. I my brother used to be a herpetologist at a zoo. And I thought that's the only place where snakes lived. I didn't know they also had jobs or they attacked people who had gotten in over their heads on things. Man Herpetologists.

Hey, man, we got to the Delaney family.

You got some characters.

You guys are now. I mean, that's that's I mean, I just I would I didn't know what it was. I would have been impressed.

My brothers are still my brothers are herpetologists.

Hey, so your brother's not you talked you talked about you kind of hinted at the hell that is bankruptcy. Yeah.

Walk me through that from my third world. The the toll it takes on your soul on a marriage, like what does it do to the you know, the can probably tell me more than than I can tell you.

But if you think about the list, you've seen the list. We've all seen it. And it's probably somewhat statistically true that out of these ten things, if four of them happen to you in 12 months, you're in real danger of hurting yourself, right? Yeah. It's a I mean, like the loss of a spouse, a loss of a child, a loss of a long career job, the long hospital stay, bankruptcy, divorce, those kind of you know, you get this list of horrible things that happen to people, right?

Well, bankruptcy and divorce are on that list. Right. And so there are a little different than a medical problem, obviously. But, you know, the house fire losing your home to fire is on that list.

Devastating, right? Emotionally.

So what does that do that's different than. I guess a less minor trauma. It's an emotional trauma, isn't it? Yeah, but it feels like a bankruptcy would be somebody calling you out as a failure to yourself. Right? It's like this.

It's surrender, though.

I mean, yeah, it's a complete loss when you when you walk out of your marriage, it's how you feel. I suppose. I've never been through that.

That's exactly right. But like when you have a divorce fired from a job, but you think about losing a job, losing lose in your marriage is you have the loss, right. You grieve the loss.

But there's this other, more insidious thing there, which is you don't trust yourself anymore. Bankruptcy. Yeah, that's what I'm asking. I've never been through it. Yeah.

That's the same way I felt like it destroyed. I mean, I was arrogant, cocky. I was powder.

My ground made a powder after that and it took me forever to get to where I had a sense of confidence again.

And part of what allowed me to do that was finding these biblical financial truths, something that I can have confidence. And that was beyond my own intellect. Right. Because my own intellect got me into a mess. Right. Accademia, what it taught me about money got me into a mess. Right. And so I couldn't that, that, that was a shifting sand. That's exactly right. There's no anger build on that. Yeah. And so I found an anchor point that helped me get confidence in that.

And then I regain and then start functioning, regain confidence in myself. But it's a self, it's a self-esteem destroyer. Now people say it's not. They say, oh, that was easy divorce.

But I always call B.S. on that 100 percent of the time, you know, that was easy. That was it was it's just one of those things I just didn't present at the time. I tried that business idea, just didn't work out, just lost everything. We lost our house. But it's just a house. We're going to the house. And that's that's just bravado.

Yes, that's exactly right. Yeah. Is it it hurts. And that will come out in other places. Yeah.

It's one of those things that says, you know, for the rest of your life.

I'm a person that went through a divorce for the rest of your life. I'm a person that file bankruptcy. One of the big failures.

So give me one or two baby steps, no pun intended that you would like the day after you look around and who you were, not what you had, who you were is Poutre.

What's the the little when to to start walking your way back out of that? I think it's the benefit that I got from it partially.

I think it was I figured out I was not what I own. I figure out I was not what I do.

It's the difference in being and doing, you know? And so we put our put our our having you know, we put our identity and what we own or what we do.

What do you do for a living? What do you do? First question. First question. Right. Or you do it don't matter. Right. You know, and what do you what do you own? It don't matter. Right. Because it's never been a Ryder truck following a hearse you're even taking it with. Exactly.

So you know all that stuff. Right. So you go back through that.

And so that's why I don't want somebody to file bankruptcy. The other reason I want to file is they oftentimes can work through it. You got a guy, they're making 100 grand for 20 grand. He could clean this mess up.

That's right. And a lot of crap going to put out a lot of uncomfortable, nasty conversations with stupid people.

But 20000 bucks out of 100000 a year, he could be debt free in a year.

In twelve months, he will have experience at the sun. Keeps coming up every day. Yeah. And then 12 months he's he's done, yeah, he shook hands and he squared up with those folks and whatever he bought on that stuff, he'll never do it again. That's right. You never do it again. Hmm. There's too much cost.

I'm fascinated by the and I've had a few of these experiences in my life at a at a more minor level.

But when you lose trust in your own decision making. Right. You have nowhere to go but the mirror. It's a different kind of trauma. It is. Yeah, because anxiety works the same way. It's like feeling it's like being betrayed by your own body, you know, in your head. There's nothing happening here. But your heart's racing. You have an anxiety attack. Yeah. You can't breathe. You're frustrated.

And it's, you know, it's it's not real. Yeah. But your body's just run off down the road on you. Right. But it's the same thing sitting in a horror movie. I know it's not real, but still scares crap. That's exactly right. Yeah. That's why I don't go to him. I get scared. To Brad's in Ohio.

Hi, Brad. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. It's hey, I've gone. Dave, appreciate you. Undoctored long. You have me on. Sure.

How can we help you? Well, my question is, in regards to a red flag or kind of pitfalls you can fall into when you're looking for, you know, a partner or a spouse or just dating in general. I mean, I'm twenty eight years old. I just recently moved to Ohio, took a 30 percent pay increase and know made the decision to live with my sister and brother in law in their basement so I could pay off my debt.

And I paid down from fifty thousand in debt to thirty thousand now. Good for you for four months. Yeah. So but I'm starting to date and you know, aside from living in my sister's basement, that's a great first line.

Right. Hey, what's up? Yes, I'm here today because I live in my sister's basement.

Yes.

Now I know you're I know you're probably going to tell me that, you know, the right the right person would understand the right woman would understand the situation and be more accommodating. But in general, what are some what are some things to look out for? Because I don't want to fall into one of those circumstances like you guys were just discussing where, you know, I'm a statistic where bankruptcy leads to divorce and so on and so forth. So are there any indicators early on in a relationship when you first start dating that could, you know, could provide some insight into, you know, where you could not fall into that pitfall?

Dr. John? Hmm. I would quote our good friend Henry Cloud on that, which is when somebody decides they are all in on you, somebody decides they want to get to know you. They have a picture of you in their life and that can be after one day and two dates and then you go get married. But they start saying, I want to be with this person. There's not games and there's not shenanigans and there's not hoops and trials.

There is a genuine desire to get to be connected with somebody, to learn about them, to be with them, not over them, not about them, but for them. And so I always I'm not one that believes there's one person for everybody, I think to have a good marriage.

You wake up every day and decide, I'm going to love this person with all I got and do the best I can with tools I got today. When I screw up, I'm going to say I'm sorry. And that marriage is a daily decision that I'm going to love. I'm going to love, I'm going to love.

And so I think for you, you have to list out what the values are, who you're looking for, what you want to be a part of, and then you've got to work as hard as you can to be for somebody. And I would never before for you.

And once it does get serious, I spend some time in pre marriage counseling. There's a lot of statistical data that says a good in-depth marriage counseling is highly correlated with successful marriage. And because it forces you to look at what we call the four things that are out there. And if you look if you can find out that you're largely in agreement on these four areas, you've got a good shot. And that's money. In-laws, religion and kids, if you can if you can be largely in agreement on those four things, you're going to go a long way.

And lastly, I've heard it said that if she says she's not crazy, it usually means she is someone.

That's at the point, Brad, when you tell her you live at your sister's basement and that will clear itself. I'm not crazy. Crazy. Oh, good. I'm glad. Next date. Oh, this is the Dave Ramsey Show. You know what angers me as folks are going through some really hard times, identity thieves are using every opportunity to prey on us. The scams are endless. You need to be prepared. Zanders I.D. theft protection is the only plan I have ever recommended.

And I've looked at them all. They just do everything in a smarter, more affordable way. Look, most of these plans are just a bunch of hype, not Xander. That's why I recommend them to you. Call 800 three five six, 42, 82 or visit Xander Dotcom. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage, Christian is with us. Hi, Christian, how are you? I'm doing well. How are you day?

I am better than I deserve. Welcome to Nashville. Where are you from? Springfield, Missouri.

Oh, cool. And how much doubt have you paid off? Just over just over 40000 dollars. OK, good for you. How long did this take? 21 months.

Good for you. You did it quick. And your range of income during that time between 50 and 57. And I did sell my house in that time frame. Oh, OK. Cool.

So how much of the 40 was paid off because of the sale of the house. Anything 21. OK, so half of it and the rest of it. You did about a thousand bucks a month then.

Yeah. Good, good for you. Congratulations. What do you do for a living. I am the campus director of a health and wellness school. OK, so where are you living since you sold your house in an apartment. Oh, you're a renter. OK, so what kind of debt was the 40000 normal stuff.

Student loans, credit cards, car Christmas a couple of years before I paid off.

OK, so walk me through this year. Be bopping along. Everything seems to be OK in 21 months ago, something like your what happened?

It was about December of twenty seventeen that my brother and I were at my parents' house for Christmas and he gave me a hard dose of reality. We were looking at my budget and he said, you got to make a change. You know, you make a decent living, but you have nothing to show for it. Wow.

And it was it was one of those big brother. Your little brother. My big brother.

OK, so you guys got a good relationship because he could bust you. Yeah.

Yeah. He and his wife have gone through this journey and my parents have been supportive as well.

OK, all right. So they were a little bit enthusiastic financial peace graduates and he steps on a little sister and says, you got to get it.

Yes, I got you. OK, good. I like this guy. He loves his sister. Well, so he calls you out and then what happened? And then he and his wife bought me an FPU kit. And so I took the class at my church about a few weeks into that. My daughter was with me at the classes and she cut up my credit cards during their class. Wow. And then I decided I'm going to sell my house because I can make a huge dent in my debt.

And so it's just her and I. And so it gave me the opportunity to simplify, downsize, and we made it happen. And I sold my house a month later and I'm now fully funded my emergency fund.

Look at you. So how old is your daughter? Nine.

So how poignant is that when your own nine year old is cutting up your credit cards and financial? Basically, it was.

That makes me cry. Yeah. And she she listens to the podcast with me. She has financial peace, Junior. She started a side hustle making bracelets.

So you have Jay, you've changed the trajectory of your kid. Yes. Yes. Oh, and so we have a we have a deal that whatever she saves up for her car, I'll match it. Some skin in the game. Now you go.

Oh, yes, that's a for a one day. That's what we did at our house. We matched it, baby. That's good. You've done so good. Thank you. I mean, your whole your whole perspective on the subject and your actions and your behaviors and your beliefs of all changed completely. Yes.

I'm so proud of you. Yeah. Thank you.

It comes from your principles, just like you did a great job. Wow. You got to feel considerably different is so freeing.

It's empowering. Just having conversations with people sitting in the hot tub at the apartment complex and they're like, I'm so broke, I have nothing. And I'm like, you don't have to make a lot of money to be free. You just you have to have a budget. You have to make a plan and you have to stick to it and make it into your brother.

Yes, it's an everyday conversation. Just in general. That's going to be a great conversation. Some guy is going to be like, hey, listen, this lady in the hot tub was telling me, that's going to be fantastic.

That's going to be on the debt free stage one these days. Go home to my apartment complex in the hot tub, the apartment.

Hey, so tell me this. What what encouraged you to bring your daughter along on this?

I want to leave a legacy for her, and I want her to know that you can do it. You have to set a plan. And just to know that you don't have to live in debt, I mean, I don't have a payment to make other than my normal living expenses. And yes, I would love to have a new car. I just got crazy hail damage on my car and it's a twenty thirteen, so I saved the money and I want to get a new one, but I don't want a payment.

So until I can save up for it, it's it's the Honda Fit all day.

Yeah I know. You know this Rachel crew says it best with more is caught than taught, but a lot of parents take the easy way out and they just they bark at their kids. They ask him to do things. They yap, yap at their children all day long.

And you did the legacy shifting thing, which is you took that baby girl that I'm looking at right now by the hand and let her walk with you, handed her a pair of scissors and you said together, no more. And man, you're talking about a. Years from now, because great grandma will decide to do something different, the whole family lives different. Yeah, we have to have it on video and we put those credit cards in a clear Christmas ornament and I put tape on it.

And so now we know 2013 was the year that mom cut up her credit cards.

Good for her. Good thing I love it. You got it now. Yeah. So you go from getting called out to your brother to actually doing it to now you're calling out people in the hot tub.

You go through the whole transition, gone through the full transition and the. So what do you tell people? The key to getting out of that is you did it.

You have to stay focused. You have to have a plan. It's I have a vision board on the side of my fridge. It's been sitting there for a while and it's just a reality check. But you have to stay focused and know your wife, my daughters, my wife and just freedom and get her college ready and be able to move forward and and not feel the pressure of payments every month.

Oh, man, that's amazing. Way to go. Thank you.

Regulations. So I guess your brother and your mom were big cheerleaders.

Yes, my parents and my brother and sister in law and I have some friends back in Springfield and Duhan we're going through had taken classes as well. And so just supportive people and taking friends to go to Piñera and write a budget together, that kind of stuff, just to keep accountability. My daughter keeps me in check, too. I said, Lexie, we're not going to we're not going to eat out this week. And maybe we'll think about celebrating at one point.

And I was taking her home one day after after work in school and I said, I'm so exhausted. Let's go get some Chinese food. She goes, Mom, remember, we're not eating out. We're eating at home.

Oh, man. So reality check your old game. Oh, hey, mom. Well done.

So proud of you, hero. Thank you. Thank you very much. You've made a change in our lives, so I really appreciate we showed you how you did it.

I'm so proud of you. All right. So you brought your daughter with you. What's her name? Her name is Lexi. Lexi is nine years old, right? Yes. All right. Beautiful. All right.

Life is good. Well, we got a copy of Chris Hoggins book for you every day, Millionaires', because that for sure is the next chapter in your story.

Lexi. Probably every day. Multimillionaire's.

Yeah, I'm not messing around, you know, to Chinese food at age eight. You think you can do anything. You've won that level of self-discipline. Touchdown.

You've a way to go. We're not going out to eat, Mom. I'm changing my family. That's in crisis.

Awesome. This awesomeness. All right, Kristen, Lexi, you've been practicing.

Yes, we have. All right. You know the debt free scream. Yeah. All right. Here we go.

Kristen and Lexi from Springfield, Missouri. Forty thousand dollars paid off in 21 months, including the sale of a home 50000 to 57000 dollar income.

Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. Three, two, one.

UN believable, unbelievable. One of the things that we do around here.

Of course, I cried an Applebee's commercial, but due to one of the things men cried at the table here, Dave, one of the things that we do around here that makes me cry are those things.

But when Rachel tells the story about I was that little girl man, she was born the year we filed bankruptcy. And she tells that story from the stage. I've heard it. She's done it hundreds of times. I cry every time she does. Huh.

Because that was the year our family tree change. She was born, the year we filed bankruptcy. And there's such a milestone in that, that.

That Christmas ornament. Hmm, that is a valuable family heirloom. That's right.

And Lexi, your kids are going to have that ornament on their tree came in and it's going to go down generation after generation because of what you did. That's a million dollar ornament ornament. This is the day M.S.. Dr. John Polony Ramsey, personality, is my co-host today here on the show, I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Open phones at eight eight two five five two two five. Christophers in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Christopher. How are you?

I'm doing well. How you doing? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Oh, yeah, I was just going to ask you, if you were in my position, what would you do? I'm living at home. I'm twenty seven delivering pizzas. I got about nine hundred and stay home and I got about twenty nine thousand in savings. You have 9800 and student loan debt.

You have nine thousand savings. And your your your only job is the pizza delivery. Yeah, I've listened over that, I've done from time to time to I used it to help pay off my car, but I'm not doing that anymore in my course, paid off. I don't want to put all the miles on it.

So what are you going to do with your life? I would really enjoy to go back to school with my degrees right now. They're not marketable for a good career. I'd love to go back to school and study human resources as part of my government. And I've just been saving up for that. What's your degree in? Psychology and political science. So what can't you do with a psychology degree? I feel like. I definitely could go down the route of human resources.

I feel like eventually, though, to get a better advantage, I believe getting a master's degree would hold a lot more bullcrap credibility. Absolute bull crap. You don't believe so?

I run a 250 million dollar company. No one in my H.R. department has a master's degree. No kidding, and they're getting, too, by the way, they're great, and I don't think any of them even have an H.R. degree. Armondo might our director of H.R. might I don't know. My original director of H.R. did not. I know that. Now you've got what it takes to get in there.

You know, you get your foot in the door.

And if you want to go pick up some classes, some one off classes and audit some classes just to get some knowledge on H.R., that would be advisable.

But I don't think you need to go back and get a four year degree in H.R. plus a Masters in order to be able to be in H.R. I mean, game and get in the game.

Yeah, it's time to get in the game. I would pay off my student loans yesterday and I'd move out the next day. Yeah. And go get a job and go get you and go get your foot in the door entry level position recruiter or something else in H.R., get started and get with a company that will pick up some of your tuition and go start doing some study at night instead of delivering pizzas with them, paying for it. My sister's a recruiter.

She does remarkably well. Rooters, my bank, she is awesome. She knows the business, she knows well, but she's got a bachelor's degree and she's smarter than me ten times. And so, I mean, you've got to get in the game to master's degree in human resources.

No, she's got a bachelor's degree bachelors. Yeah, she's yeah. She's a rock star, but she put the work in. She works real hard. And you got to get in the game brother.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is a you have a perceived blockage, a blocker here. That's not real. Right. It's not a real blocker Christopher. So but get your foot in the door and get get started up.

Hang on. I'm going to give you a copy of Quin Coleman's book, The Proximity Principle. And if I were you, I would get started tomorrow, tomorrow, all of that. I'd pay off my student loan today. I'd make plans to move out. You got plenty of cash. You're in a good shape. Go get you. You know, you can work the part time gigs if you have to to pay bills for a little while until you land the job.

But I would go get an H.R. position somewhere that you love working.

And again, you can some material can come. We can help you land that job. Can Coleman Dotcom, there's all kinds of get the interview, get the resumé stuff right. All of it's free and downloadable. And I'm going to give you this book.

So we've given you everything that he's got and he can help you land that for sure.

But, you know, so, Christopher, if if you hear what just happened, is Dave Ramsey just called your bluff. Oh, just call his bluff, man. And so now he's taken all these excuses off the table, all of them. Well, you know, I'm just stuck with degrees. Nope. It's over, dude. Here's the book. Here's the resources. Here's the hi5. Go get them. And I'll tell daviss H.R. department here is extraordinary.

Our H.R. department, they're excellent. They are excellent at what they do. All right.

There may be seventeen of my master's degrees. I don't know. I really don't. But they were not hired for master's degrees and they were not kept from doing something because of my master's degree. I mean, I can I cannot think of anybody over there that even has an H.R. degree, much less a master's degree. They might want to might.

But but I mean, you know, again, H.R. is about taking care of the teen love.

People love loving the team and hiring the team. Right. Hanging on to the recruiting and taking care and love the team and, you know, psychology degree all assist you in that. A big heart will assist you in that caring about people, assist you in that, and then God help you somewhere along the way, you're going to learn something about the law as well. But but the the rest of it is, you know, there's no there's no technique that they're going to teach you in a master's degree that allows you to be unless you want to work in a cold, toxic corporate environment, then you might need a master's degree.

But I don't think that's going to be your goal to get jobs where you go in and look at people. Here's another thing Christopher can do is when he delivers pizzas in the evenings as he's grinding through, trying to get get his foot in the door in another position, he can take those thirty second those one minute exchanges and learn how to read somebody, learn how to be kind to somebody, learn how to make somebody's day. When I worked at Burger King at the front register, I learned at a young age it takes about ten seconds to make somebody's day or to ruin it.

Yeah, right. And that lesson as a sixteen year old kid has has has ridden with me all the way through, is treat people with dignity, get to know somebody that fast or somebody give them what they need and step back those kind of little personal skills, those investments and people loving every person you come in contact with. That's going to make you a great H.R. person down the road. Beyonce, a whole other program.

MAN six, three years. So you know what a nail apron is. I do not. You don't know. You never worn that apron? No. It's a little thing you get at Home Depot or something. Ties around the back.

Got two little pockets in the front with your nails. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If your driving nails and you know you're doing carpentry.

Right. So pizza guy number one. Pulls up in front of our house. Honks horn Won't even get out of the car. Nope. I got to go outside down the stairs. Give him his money, he gets no or one level of Dave tip. I, I got to give a tip because Dave right. I don't have a choice. Right. But I mean, what a jerk pizza guy. Number to. Knocks on the door This is his third trip to the house.

It's got a nail apron, steps back three steps from the door. So there's presence is not intimidating if the lady of the house happens to answer the door or for that matter, if anyone, because if you're all up in the grill to close, that physical presence is wrong. You know, it's in the nail apron, dog biscuits. No way for my dog. Well played, man. You give my dog a dog biscuit. You didn't crowd the space.

You're smiling and happy. The pizza's hot. You're happy to be here. Guess who gets the tip bigger than the stinking pizza, you know, right? I mean, what ingenuity?

Well, ingenuity is just I'm going to honor the person I'm serving a meal to right now. And I don't know when that day I don't know when that became a move. Right. When we had to start teaching people, hey, you're bringing somebody a meal.

You've got a noble thing you're doing here. You're taking somebody's dinner do with a smile on your face. You're helping somebody out. Be joyful. Be a good person to be around.

Be a kind person. Bring a dog biscuit.

Can you imagine Arawa on a dog?

This got man, this guy's a five dollar thing. Dog biscuits, two dollar for a nail apron. Right. And he made that back in one stop anywhere there's a dog. I don't know what you do with a cat, but. Oh, well, there you go. Well, you I don't think about cats because I don't know anything. I don't know what you do with Cat anyway.

I know people on the Internets don't like people who talk about their cats. I'm going to keep my mouth shut. But oh, really? I'm not a cat guy, Dave.

Oh, I don't want to know anything about the Internet, so I don't I don't either.

They told me so almost almost as often. We can just talk about your lovely dog. Yeah, that's it.

Well, he has an underbite, those dog biscuits for a problem. But still it's still a great gesture.

There's a 100 percent chance the next time I come to your house, I'm bringing a male friend and a dog and an apron your house. But I will put some in my pocket. I love it. You got it. You got to. Oh, how to get the Sharon's heart. I'm just saying you can get a tip out of even Sharon doing that, you know. There you go. Oh, that puts a sour the Dave Ramsey Show mercifully in the books.

This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. On your smart speaker, you can add our skill by saying, Alexa, open the Ramsey network skill. From there, you can listen to all our shows. Ask Dave money questions like How do I invest my money or what is the debt snowball? Find out more it. Dave Ramsey Dotcom Smart Speaker.

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