Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollars Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show where debt is dumb. Cash is king in the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice.

My co-host today on The Dave Ramsey Show Ramsey personality Kris Hogan, author of two number one best selling books, the latest being Every Day Millionaires.

The phone number eight eight two five five two two five. That's Triple eight eight two five five two two five. David is with us to start off this hour in South Carolina. Hi, David. How are you?

I'm doing good. Dave, I have a question for you first that I've never heard you guys touch on before and wanted to get your thoughts on, OK?

So me and my wife, we're on baby steps and we don't have any kids currently and we're looking to do foster to adopt one of our heartbeats to treat these kids like a normal kid. So how do we fund college, not knowing whether we're going to get a kid when they're six or 16, just that that wide range orgasm, but then what do you guys have planned for that?

Mm hmm. Very nice. Yeah, no, that is you know, as I look at this, David, and you guys are starting to think and plan ahead, you're right. There is the unknown of the age and stage in which they may come to you. But I want you to keep in mind, you know, you have many ways that you can start to save money. You might look at just establishing a growth stock mutual fund that's outside of retirement for you to be able to save toward.

Again, that might go toward towards college. It could go to a wedding or home down payment. It gives you options without it being in a person's name. It can be you and your wife's name, but you've got a lot of options as you sit down and you start to look at that and baby seven.

And so you should have some money and it just can stay in your name. You don't have to have a quote unquote, college fund in the kid's name.

And in this situation, you know, you got plenty of time, even if it's a six year old, you don't have a lot of time between now and the time they go to college.

But you've got the money to take care of this. You just merely be moving it into their name. Right. The Times, if my wife decides to stay home, that'll cut our income significantly. So it may not be able to cash flow likely to want to.

So that's when it won't matter what you put it in his name or your name at that point. Mm hmm. Yeah, so, you know, just pile up cash in your name and wealth in your name when Chris is saying and then you've got the option to do whatever you want to do with it.

And, you know, as you as God sent you the appropriate child that you're supposed to take care of here, which is awesome, then then you'll know exactly what you've got to do and let your planning out.

But you'll be fine. You know, you've got plenty of room here in this good job. Oh, it is good. Tanner is in Idaho. Hi, Tanner. How are you?

Good. How are you guys? Better than we deserve. What's up?

So we. My wife and I are going to start saving up for a down payment on a house. Good. And I know I know that the Roth IRA has I mean, first of all, a good rate of return, a pretty good rate of return generally. And also, I believe that from what I understand. That you can take money out of a Roth IRA to if you're buying, if you're using that money to buy your first home, you can take that money out of the Roth IRA with no penalty and no taxes.

So I guess I just want to get your thoughts on that of what you would recommend and why you start with a Roth IRA does not have a right of return.

What you invest the Roth IRA into has a rate of return. And what we recommend you put your Roth IRA in is in good mutual funds so you could use good growth, stock type mutual funds if you wanted to, to save money for your house. Not sure I would recommend that unless you got five years or longer. But if you're going to, you could do that and not mess up your Roth.

Your Roth needs to be used for retirement, not for housing.

Yeah, Tanner, what kind of debt do you all have right now? Currently, we've got the only debt we have is a student loan that has about a thousand dollars left on what we're going to pay it off here in the next year.

Good for you. Good job. Older. You got 26. What's your household income? About 60000 a year.

Good for you. Well done. Well done. Yeah, I would tell you this, but he wrote that check pay off that that thousand dollar student loan debt and want you to build up a fully funded emergency fund, three to six months of expenses and then start saving and then baby step three be and start saving for the house. I'm not going to tell you to liquidate. I really I'm not.

And I wouldn't use a Roth as a savings vehicle. Yeah, not at all. Answer the question. You want your mutual funds.

That's OK. But that's taking a little risk with that money. It is not our recommended thing.

But but I definitely would not I don't I don't mess with retirement funds for there to be used for retirement. So I wouldn't cloud your Roth with that.

No, I really wouldn't either. And you guys only own a thousand dollars in student loan debt. It's about to be gone. GUITRY three to six month in place. You guys save up cash for this home down payment. You can do this without touching the Roth.

Mike's in Ohio. Hey, Mike, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave has been better than I deserve.

How can we help? First of all, thanks for having me on. It's a pleasure. Sure. I am midway through Evenstad to fifteen million last year and I currently have three cars. One of them is a jeep which is our family car, you know, about 6000 and that the other fleece my truck or about another year.

Despite a 2010 Toyota Sienna for fifteen hundred dollars and it's worth 7000, what do I sell the Sienna payoff to keep? How do I keep it for when my truck is gone? What's your household income? About 60, OK? And so you make seven grand, right? Are six grand? Mm hmm. Yeah.

After insurance and taxes and everything come out, it's more like four a month.

No, I mean, no, I'm talking about your the profit on the Qiana. Oh yeah.

I can make exactly enough to pay off my jeep. Pretty much. And it's a really nice sienna. It's like a steal. I don't think I'll be able to find another thousand.

Hold on. Mike, let me ask you a question. Who drives the Sienna? Well, I would drive to CNN if my wife makes on me, so.

But you drive the Sienna right now. No, it's actually just sitting in my driveway. I just bought it. Well, why do you have it? He bought it to flip it. Deal with it. Oh, OK. Out of a deal. Yeah. When we got 12 months from what's the truck worth being over 2019 bodhran, so it's going to be turned down at the end of the year.

So, yeah, and then you've got to buy something else. I'm going to go ahead and flip it. You can find you another car deal in a year. Pay off the jeep. Yep. Yep. Let's go ahead and accelerate this and start saving towards a car for a year. Once you've gotten your emergency fund, get out of there. Yeah. Yeah. Make money. That's a good move. You did a good thing there. No, it is a good deal shop.

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Chris Hogan Ramsey personality is my co-host today here on The Dave Ramsey Show, you jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money. Randy is with us in Hanover, Massachusetts.

Hi, Randy.

How are you doing? Great. How about yourself?

Better than I deserve. What's up? So just have a question, my wife and I just recently got into a business, some business, and we were making more money than we've ever imagined in our life.

Wow. Good for you. What do you make it? No, it's a it's a true blessing. And we're super grateful and no just gods to continue to bless our and our family. How much are you making? I mean, from. Excuse me, how much are you making? Um, let's probably this year, this year probably do more than 500. Wow.

Good for you, man. Congratulations. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. But again, where we come from, I did the military for a long time, so we had that then. So come from very humble beginnings. And so now that we're making this income, we follow the budget, but we give ourselves a very I can't think of the word, but we just give a very modest budget and we feel bad spending money. And at this point, we're just like we put all this money to the side and we're like, we're giving we're putting in for retirement.

We're doing this thing saving up for our kids college fund. What else should we be looking to do with this?

Very good job. Well done. Well done. Morandi Chris and I have worked with professional athletes and artists and so forth over the years and other just uber successful people with huge incomes.

And many of them struggle with this because most people didn't start out with this.

And by the way, thank you for your service to the country and I'm glad that you are have become uber successful with your income. And so what we teach people to do is come up with a basic budget, not a modest budget, but a basic budget, like we were with a football player a while back.

Chris and I were sitting there and we just got a yellow pad which did it right quick. And he's like, you know, he's kind of a tightwad guy.

He wants spending money and but he's making serious bank. And we said, all right, what is a good budget? And he said, oh, fifty thousand dollars a year. And I went, No, dude, you're making millions. Shut up, OK? Fifty thousand, you're stupid. You need to have a better budget than a budget where you can have a decent, enjoyable life without and you can do the funding of the retirement funding of the kids college.

You can, you know, repurchase a car every so often. What's the budget? I think we ended up with him. We finally got him up one hundred twenty thousand ten thousand dollars a month, pull some teeth. But we got him there. But he was like, he's like, am I going 800 on our grant here? Right, right, right.

Same as your situation. So we set a basic budget.

And this is what Sharon and I do, by the way, as well, because we've got a good income. And so we set a basic budget like that and then we run our household on that. Then everything above that, we apply a percentage formula to it. We're Christians, so we put 10 percent tithe. The government takes 40 percent. So that's half of it. OK, the other 50 percent, we spread across three things lifestyle increase, in other words, fun money.

Extra generosity, outrageous generosity and extra investing. So you got 40 percent for taxes above your budget, you're going to give away 10 percent, that leaves you 50 percent. So divide that 50 percent up and spend something on extra fun. So here's an example. If you put 10 percent on extra lifestyle, that would give you your regular household budget and 50 grand to blow on cars, trips or whatever. And that leaves you still 40 percent to invest and to split up among outrageous generosity.

So every time I get a check from a publisher, I got one today. Total Money Makeover check came in today. And that's always a good day. And that check came in today. So, you know, what I'll do is it's real simple. I just apply that formula to it. 10 percent to 40 percent of your taxes have to be set over for him. Even think about it then I won't put my percentage on investing, my percentage on increased generosity and a percentage on increased lifestyle.

And what you'll be amazed is, is that you actually get to enjoy the money on the increased lifestyle, the giving you'll be you'll be thinking about it more because it's allocated.

It's already kind of like doing a budget. It's already spent. And so when we do that, it frees people up.

It really does. And, Randi, it'll free up to my friend and I think you and your wife sitting down and making that list of goals of the things you're looking to do or maybe the trips you're looking to go on. What did you do to Seattle? It'll help you kind of get out of your head and get on to paper and say, hey, this is what we're excited about, or the room in the home that you're going to renovate or whatever it is, it makes it more practical and it makes it more exciting.

Yeah, I got a buddy of mine that's building habitat houses out of his outrageous generosity. And so every time he gets a big ol check, he gets more excited because that's that many more habitat houses he can do and see that that formula I just used to work with five million a year. It'll work with five hundred thousand a year. Hmm.

Right. I love it. Thank you so much. I appreciate that. And we were just talking about last night dreaming in HD. You go, buddy, trying to set up that dig where we can zoom in HD, you know, really.

And what you're doing now is a different level of dreaming. Yeah. OK, this is now legacy dreaming. Some people are dreaming about when they're out of debt that they finally get to go on a vacation. OK, you're way beyond that. We're talking about completely changing your family tree, massive amounts of money into some a couple of ministries to completely reshape your community with your generosity.

I mean, like you talk about a guy starts building multiple habitat houses. This is a guy that's fired up, OK?

Ah, you know, you start buying tractor trailer loads of icicles to give away in, you know, an inner city area where people are struggling with a ministry there. And it's not two bikes if you're starting to do stuff with scale because you've got the capacity to be outrageously generous, outrageously change your legacy.

And, you know, it works beautifully. Hang on.

I'm going to send you a copy of the last book I did, which was Legacy Journey, which is all about living in that level of thinking. And it's a different place to get your brain works different.

It really is. And for those of you out there, you hear him, The Dreaming in HD. I talked about that in my first book, written Inspired Dreaming in High Definition. Like you can see the details in a high definition TV. I want you to see those kind of definitions in your dream. But we can't just dream we got a plan. So go over to my website, Krischan 360 Dotcom, and I'll talk to you about having that dream meeting.

But I'll also show you the RFQ, which is the return spark quotient free tool to help you identify how much you're going to need to live those dreams.

You know, it's important. And I think what I'm pointing out there is, Chris, you know, what happens is as you reach different levels of wealth, the first one is just to get debt free so you can breathe. Right. I'm not free to scream. Right. Then you got your emergency fund. Your dreams start to change.

Yes, because for so long, we lived just hand-to-mouth in survival. Yep. And your dream was Friday. Yes. You know, and then your dream starts to be Christmas and then your dream starts to be, you know, I'm pay cash for the kids college and then your dream starts to be, you know, and then your dream starts to grow.

And then because and they should move at different levels because otherwise, you know, you don't have anything to reach for and you get bored.

It's exactly right. And then you lose that motivation. Hey, we were talking about the bicycle's remember the entree leadership thing we did down in Florida. We put together by car. I'd forgotten that. And we brought these kids in and the little boy that I had had never written a bike. And so the bike that I worked on, thank God there were other people there to make sure the bike stayed together. But but I got a chance to kind of help him with that bike and kind of riding around.

And I just I'll never forget that. That was a moment that I know those kids will never forget. But also those leaders, they're being a part of that. They'll never forget that.

And that's very cool. It really was. That kid was scared to death. He had to learn to ride a bike just because once you let go the seat, he was big.

He was not going to let me go.

OK, we're strong people, strong, so I'm scared to death. That was a lot of fun. It was a we did a team building thing. We bought a bunch of bikes in and thereby had to jump and random teams and the leadership thing and everybody had to put the bikes together.

I'd forgotten that. That's like five, six years ago. It really was. And then we had the kids lined up to come in and get the bikes, man. And that was just a little small. It really wasn't on the scale of that, but it was it was a good leadership activity. And then you you know, you put the icing on the cake with the generosity. That's right. That's exactly right. Yeah, that's fine. Good stuff.

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In the lobby of Embassy Solutions on the Debt three stage, Stephanie is with us. Hi, Stephanie. How are you? Good, how are you? Well, better than I deserve. Welcome. Thank you for having me. I'm honored to have you.

And where do you live? I'm from a suburb of Chicago. In Indiana.

Oh, very cool. And all the way to Nashville to do a debt free scream, of course.

How much have you paid off? 64000 and 71 dollars. Good for you. How long did this take? 38 months. You kicked it all to go, girl. And your range of income during that time.

I started out making 34000 and ended up with 44. And then I made like around 10000 outside jobs on the side.

You were focused? Yeah, I lived on nothing.

I mean, nothing seriously, because you paid off twenty thousand dollars a year for three years on average and you're not making about thirty four or forty four. Mm hmm.

Wow.

I mean beans and rice. Yeah. Way to go. What kind of debt was this.

3000 was a car and the rest of student loans. OK, so what's your degree in our education. Good teachers. Good for you. So that's what you do for a living, your teacher. Good for you. Why do you go? So you got out of school, shadow attacked us, taught us your story. What happened?

I actually graduated in 2012, so I had been out of school for a while, but it wasn't like a certain event that caused me to start, but more like a mentality of being tired of having this weight of debt and wanting to do all of these things, but not being able to do them because I was feeling the weight of my debt and not feeling that piece. So I knew about you from other people that I heard from. And also any church that I'd gone to had financial peace.

But I started listening to your podcast every day when I was prepping at school in the morning, and I heard that free screams that were very similar like me. And I was like, well, if they can do it and they have a similar income than me than I can of course, do this right. So and then I got started and once I first started paying off debt, then I was like, I totally believe that I could do it and I just would do anything that I needed to do to pay off debt.

Wow. Very cool. You were very focused. Yeah. I mean, what were some of the things that you sacrifice that were difficult for you?

So I. Because I was a teacher, I didn't get paid overtime to do anything, but I would babysit every before school, after school, on holidays, like on breaks. I lived had like low income living conditions or like the lowest I could pay by also babysitting for the person that I lived with and just renting out a room instead of like having my own apartment, you know, sacrificing any time that I had and doing all of those things.

But just working as much as I could. Yeah. And putting it all towards that.

Let me ask you, was it worth it? Oh, of course. Yes. Yeah. You've got this grin on your face and you just, you know, from all the hard work because sometimes it gets hard, right. And the mountains get along through you. Yeah, you did the did. Young lady, I'm proud of you. Thank you.

Very impressive. Yeah. Very impressive.

Good job. OK, so you're the hero. You did it. You paid off sixty four thousand dollars and thirty eight months making 34 to 44.

When people say how'd you do that, what do you say. The key to getting out of that is you can do it too.

So what are you got to do. Yeah, I think the first thing is believing and having that mindset to just know that, OK, you can do this. And then also, like you said, the sacrifice of knowing that it's a short term sacrifice and that's not going to be forever knowing that I was only doing that for a short amount of time was really motivating for me. And also because I'm so visual, I was able to fill in charts and be able to see those visuals for me.

And every time I was able to do that, that was really motivating. So I'd always crunched the numbers and see how much more I could pay towards that and how much I could just fill in. So, yeah, I just I would say having a shark sacrifice mindset.

Stephanie, how long ago did you hear the debt free screams on Dave's show and you said, I want that to be me? How many years ago was that?

Well, the whole time I was the whole time I just hear that Godfrey screams. And of course, when there was someone that was very similar to my income, I would kind of even get teared up sometimes because I would know that that could be me. And hey, guess what? It is you.

Yes, you're here. Not only did you dream it, you dare to chase it down. It is you. And you're going to motivate all kinds of other young people out there. I'm proud of you, young lady. Thank you. I really am. That's amazing. Thinking and crowd. Yeah, absolutely amazing. Well done. Well done. Yeah.

So who are your biggest cheerleaders? I had family friend. Friends that were like family to me back home and anyone in my small group at church, anyone I came across, was really supportive. OK, so who came with you on this trip? It was my roommate in college and her family there, like a second family to me. And they came and we came down to Nashville also very good cheerleaders.

I noticed you had a cheering section over here, so I want to figure out who that was. Good way to go. I'm proud of you.

We got a copy of Christmas book for you every day. Millionaires', that is the next chapter in your story. You are on your way.

You're free. You did it. I'm so proud of you. You're a hero. Well done.

Stephanie in Chicago. Sixty four thousand dollars paid off in thirty eight months. Count it down. Let's say you're a debt free scream. Three to one.

I'm debt free. That's how it's done. The interesting thing is, is that it doesn't matter what your income, your age. You're. Sex, your color, the number of kids you have, we've had someone like you doing that for you because we've been doing them for decades and they're all different and they're all special because that's her story. That's right. But but there is someone like she said she'd find the ones that like that were like her making thirty four thousand dollars a year.

And it made her tear up, you know, because she said, I can do this now. You've got to find stories in your life that go there's a there's a guy like me.

There's a gal like me that went and did what it took and they want them. And they came from the neighborhood like I came from. Or they I relate to them in this way or and they still went and they did it. And that's what that does.

It takes away your stinking excuse. It sure does, Dave. And I'm going to tell you something. We you know, and doing this largest study of millionaires we've ever done, it busts down a lot of those myths. And, you know, as my coach said, don't make excuses, son, make plays.

And we've got to get rid of that victim mentality and grab a victor mentality and understand if we can believe in 70 hit on that, we've got to believe we can because we found that while the millionaires came from every possible background.

96 percent of them, when we surveyed them said that was all of them. Mm hmm. By the way. Yeah.

Said that belief in the fact that you can do. Yes. If you can become wealthy. Yeah. Is essential. And when we interviewed non millionaires and asked the same question, only 62 percent of you said that big drop off.

Yeah. So while belief is not magical and it doesn't it doesn't keep you from having to do the hard work.

Right? It doesn't it's not a magic potion.

You know, it pretty much ensures you're not going to get there if you don't have you don't believe it.

That's right. It's a contributing factor. It really is. But you got to put it to work. Yeah.

And, you know, your belief causes you to take action. Now we've got the magic. There you go. There you go. And I said that I talk about in the book, you've got to believe you've got to grow in your knowledge and you've got to take the right actions. That's the key.

That is the key.

Absolutely. How it's done. And so that's why this book and white paper that goes with it, you've got the white paper.

Do I do? It's not a white paper. Everyone has got like a cover with your face on it. Well, Dave, it's a quick read. It's not a quick read.

It's a nerd, but it's all the statistics from the thinking. Any trouble sleeping with Nyquil? Yes.

If you want to pull between two covers, the national study of millions, that's if you have trouble sleep. If you want the research paper baby like this nurdin out. Yeah, normal people feel like they're going better there.

You know, alcohol required. Oh my gosh. Yeah. It's only what, nine bucks or something. Yeah. Yeah. That's ten dollars and Quecreek.

Yeah. It starts with greed. Last night I put it short, that's, it's what we call quick rage because it's short, it is short but there's a lot. It really is. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Chris Shogan Ramsey, personality and number one best selling author, is my co-host today here on the air. Nick is in Anchorage, Alaska. Hi, Nick. Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, how are you?

Better than I deserve. How can we help?

My wife and I have about forty one thousand left to pay on our house. And we're wondering if it would be a good idea to cash out our deferred comp to help pay that off faster than I would really want to, but I'd hate to pay all those taxes.

Yeah, let's keep going back and forth. We're just getting impatient, probably. Yeah. Yeah.

See, the way I look at it is you probably don't pay out 25, 30 percent in tax on that. And it's kind of like borrowing money at 25 or 30 percent interest to pay off your mortgage. Yeah, and I just I wouldn't do that, so we tell people not to cash out retirement unless it's to avoid a bankruptcy or foreclosure, and that's certainly not your case. You're almost done with your mortgage. Way to go, Nick.

Nick, how much was this home when you all bought it?

We paid 215, but it's probably worth at least 250.

You all have been intentional. My goodness. How much are you paying each month toward this thing?

Our payments about sixteen fifty. OK, but are you better at an extra to. Yeah, yeah, we've been chunkin away at any chance we try to do at least 2000 a month extra, that's really the extra money you're going to be done.

Yeah, yeah. How old are you all, Mick? I'm 38 and my wife is 35.

Yeah, way to go. You're going to be done in a year. They're not unicorns and anchorage deep unicorns because that's awesome. Nick, I understand the mindset around it and the irritation, but you want to be smart. Remember, you're playing offense as well as defense. And so let your money keep growing. But you guys keep throwing money at this thing. I think you'll have this thing out of your life faster than you believe.

I mean, when you start putting 2016, that started 600 on forty one thousand. Do the math. You're done a year. Yep. I mean, you've probably done 11 months, actually, but somewhere out there.

And, you know, when you get close to the finish line, nothing happens is they're just going to start just like, you know.

Oh yeah. Yeah. Sprinting knock it out. So he probably done in ten months, but OK, well done sa. Proud of you. Janay is in Dallas. Hi Jenny. How are you. Hello. I'm doing well, thank you guys for having me. Sure. How can we help me and my husband are on a disagreement on when to buy a house. We are completely debt free, thanks to your principles. In 2013, we paid off forty nine thousand.

Way to go.

Well, Chris and I are here to tell you who's wrong. Yes. And Jake, it's going to be me. Hold on. Today you have to agree to go with what, David?

Well, do you agree?

No, that's so.

I mean, I think you both said that, you know, I've been set up to hear that Chris was the co-host who come at me.

Oh, right. Tell us the scenario. I'm ready now.

OK, so we are currently renting in North Dallas, so housing is expensive. But my husband would like to save up and buy a smaller house and probably one to two years, whereas we're buy that house and then five to ten years down the road, upgrade our house. I would like to wait one more down on the house by the same priced house in seven to 10 years. Mm hmm.

OK. And in both cases, you're debt free and have the emergency fund in place before you buy the house, right?

Correct. OK. All right. So, Darren, this is. Yeah. This is not as good as know. It's not because this is just like because you're both right. Yeah. You could do either one. Either one is fine. It becomes a matter of preference then.

So this is the one item on this show that I give advice or quote, allow people to do that is inconsistent with the way I live because I do not borrow money for anything ever in any circumstance, no matter what the building we're sitting in or 70 million dollars.

We paid cash for it. We're not going to build it. Newspaper headline Was Ramzi Build's at the speed of cash? You know, because we don't build unless we have the money. So, you know, so my answer would be at Dave Ramsay's house would be different than we would allow you to do now where you're buying a home on a 15 year fixed with a good strong down payment and the payments, no more than a fourth of your take home pay.

You're out of date and you have your emergency fund. You're in the zone of buy a house. Now that you want to wait a little longer, buy a different house, do you want to put more down? Do you want to do 100 percent down plan in five years rather than a 20 percent down in 18 months?

Those are all things you, too, can decide, but neither one of you are in the stupid zone. Yeah, I got to get back.

Yeah, I got to keep whatever you tell me. We're going to do it now. Oh my goodness. So today I do want to know why are you willing to wait longer before getting the house.

Because the rental house that we're in provides us a lot more space than a house that we'd be able to purchase. Oh, OK.

She'd be moving down in space, OK? And so that gives you the ability emotionally to have the patience, correct?

Yeah. How many kids you got? We have two and are starting an adoption process but would like four.

How old are you two right now. Three and one know. How old are you got your mom. I am thirty one and thirty three of my. And what's your household income.

My husband is the social worker and he makes about eighty five.

OK, so you could you know why don't you probably will do is somewhere between your idea and his idea.

I'm just kind of hit the middle because it's still in the smart zone. Neither one of those are going to be dumb. You're going to put it on a short term. You're still going to pull off the exact same goals, because what you've not used in this calculation unless you're highly unusual is increases in income that you that will occur during the five to seven year period.

You didn't consider those, did you know? Yeah.

So you linearly took your existing income out and used it as your only projection method. So you're a little low.

And so I think you could probably do your plan in five years and you probably do his plan and your plan in four years or five years, something like that.

And so I'm going to land in the three to five range as a as really just, you know, coming together between the two of you because you're both within the range of smart.

You're both this is not a thing where, you know, you're being silly, you're being immature.

Because I thought when you called, you know, you were just going to be I want to have right now I want to have we have sixty four thousand dollars in credit card debt and to lease cars. And I want a house because rent's expensive in North Dallas. That's what I thought you were going to be ready to pounce.

You were ready. Were over your growling. Yeah. You were grabbing your man.

I didn't get to your intimidating. Oh, stop it.

Because well, I mean, she wasn't that she wasn't that caller.

No, she wasn't. Johnny, do me a favor. Talk to your. Husband hear his heart, make sure he hears yours and you guys decide for you, this is not something you need to be at odds. This is about something gain agreement, like how are we going to do this? And you may find ways to bring in extra money. He may find ways and you guys can surprise yourselves, but be aligned and be rowing in the same direction.

You know what?

Here's a thing to enter into this conversation, too. I was thinking because that's really smart. Listen to the heart part of this, because sometimes when Sharon and I are talking about this and we're having this argument about what to do, when to do it and all that kind of thing, it's not it's oftentimes not what to do. It's just when and what comes first, what comes second and that kind of thing. And so I'll just go, OK, on a scale of one to 10, this is a 10 for you, like really a big deal or a one.

And for her, the space is a big deal, especially with two added kids. Mm hmm.

OK, and not being a cracker box and jammed in there with relocate for little kids, I'll drive you nuts.

And so that's a that's a 10 for her. Right. And he hears that. Then he goes, OK, I get that. That's the big deal. So now we've got to modify the plan that allows us to move into something that has some space.

Right. And that might be her timeframe to get her space right.

Instead of because he's not the one at home with four little.

That's right. But in his mind, he's wanting to attack something and get out. It's not really a great start. OK, I'll talk to you guys. Got the perfect blend. Yeah, it's great. I like this. And you guys will do what's in the best interests of the family.

Yeah, anywhere from three to five year plan is probably going to be where you guys land. It's going to be smart and you're going to do well.

And Jinney, don't lie to your husband and say we voted for you. Go back, go back and play this for him so he can hear it. Listen to the show. I bet he does, because I think he sent her in here. Yeah. Oh, my God. You shouldn't be having as much fun and be getting paid to open your mouth, cut your pay.

Don't you dare. But those are the Dave Ramsey Show in the books.

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