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That's joint honey dotcom Etsy, trust me. What up, what up, what up? Welcome back, everybody, to the ETCs podcast with Kevin Durant. As always, he calls Eddie Gonzalez.

My God, Kay. Some big developments in the last week, but this man, he's headed back to work. He knows when I know he's excited. We'll talk a little bit more about it with him going forward here. But, you know, a little busier than usual getting ready for all that stuff.

We got big things on the way for you guys. Some happy everybody loved the slam episode. Got a ton of great feedback. Shout out the scoop. Set out to Russ for making that happen for us again. It was an honor.

It was an absolute joy to take that trip back down memory lane to kind of get to show everybody that, you know, Kevin's just like us. He went through the same stuff. He was chasing those mags like us and chasing that spot in there.

And it was a dope twist on the concept here. This week, we're back with another singular entity, kind of a genius, not even a genius in music. Derek mixed by Ali Ali, the man behind the boards for all of KDDI, including Kendrick Lamar and Scissor Schoolboy.

Q All of black hippy, obviously the man behind the boards for Roddy Rich, his latest album for Summer Walker, which we got a little bit of a laugh about and and so many more.

Nipsey Hussle, Mac Miller, rest in peace. Obviously, another great conversation and something I noticed that Kevin and I said quite a bit in this episode was, yo, we just talked about this man member. We just had this conversation. And that's exactly where we wanted to present to you guys was kind of these conversations we have in private as we're just shooting the shit. But instead of me and Kevin just reminiscing to me, Kevin, just thinking about this stuff out loud, we're actually talking to people that was there for the journey, that was there who helped make these things that we love and are such a big part of us and our identity.

And this is another example of that. So, yeah, I mean, lots of stuff going on, stuff we'll be talking about soon. Lots of stuff in the works. In the meantime, Derrick Ali mixed by Ali. We'll get right to it. We're joined by a legend today, it only felt right to had this man on here, you know him as MCs by Ali Derek Ali, the man behind the boards, four legends of the last decade, Kendrick Lamar says, I just found out job y'all like in the same age group as me.

I'm used to CD cases in liner notes and shit. I just found out you did a bunch of Summers album and I loved it. How did I not know that?

Yeah, I mean, I don't know. You tell me. We must now follow my Instagram said man, I must not be a legend.

You are not getting me now. I'm hella late in life. I was like, yo, that's crazy. But yeah, obviously we're joined by Ali man. Thanks for being here.

We appreciate it.

How are you living now. Thanks for having me. I'm blessed brother. You know, it's been a rough year, but, you know, like with good music keep me afloat, you know, I'm saying. But yeah, I'm I'm great, man.

Are you guys feeling good, man? We're good, bro. So I want to start at the beginning because I found an old interview with you at my old stomping grounds, the smoking section, where and you said something like sought me out because when we talked to 40, he said something similar.

And you talked about how you getting into music and getting into engineering and stuff like that.

It is just born out of when you were younger. You just kind of had this intrigue with how things are put together and taking things apart, putting them back together and stuff like that. Why do you think that leads to what you do to mixing the engineering citoyen with voices, with music the way you do?

I mean, I was just one of them kids in the hood.

I had like severe 8D like severe. So like nothing like really like a hold my attention for so long. So I, you know, I will go get a call for Christmas or RC helicopter. I got a busted down. I got to break it down and see how it's built and then put it back together to see if I either add some parts it to make it faster or whatever. But, you know, as I grew, you know, you know, interest around me change.

You know, how you start rapping. And I'm like, yo, I could take your voice and do something crazy to break it down, break your voice down and see if we could do something different to it, you know, and that kind of sparked the interest in just the art of engineering in general.

What type of stuff are you listening to around that time?

And I said I'm born and raised eyebrows of the heavy snow bedrail I'm heavily, heavily West Coast influenced, you know, and at that time, you know, Dre had everything sounding pristine. So, you know, I tried to find a way to add, you know, when you listen to older, he added a lot of Parliament Funkadelic saw that all that weird wurm sense and weird sounds to his record. So I'm like, yo, let's try to make your vocal a synth.

Let's try to make your vocal sound like some old Funkadelic shit. And I was just doing it the unconventional way because I had no training in it. And, you know, it just it just it just told me different techniques. They taught me, you know, how to be original. That taught me just how to figure things out because I couldn't afford the real equipment, you know.

So you taught herself all of this. Yeah. This time, yeah, I was I was self-taught. Just trial and error, man.

It's a lot. I see a lot of these engineers they go to I see do going to school, struggling in and day out to figure out the craft, but to see somebody who taught themselves, that's rare, especially in this game.

I like where we come from. We don't have the same one. I had access to the schools and, you know, it actually is expensive, you know. Yeah.

So it's you know, you've got to you've got to find alternative route, you know, and that's I think, you know, those those people who can find alternative alternative routes are the ones who end up, you know, taking hold of something and making it theirs because they you know, they've been to the struggle. So now they can enjoy the glory.

So tell us about the process of teaching yourself the like. What does that mean? You're literally just trial and error all day trying to figure out what does what trial error.

But like I said, so there's no that's one reason why I really couldn't go to school, because it's like, you know, for one, I hate authority. And two, like, you can't tell me how to hear something. You know, there's always so many different ways to get it sound. And you can't tell me this is the only way to get it. So I think everything happens from not being broken, not being able to go to school.

I think it made me who I mean, in the sense that we're not being taught to to to think in a box, that makes sense. You know, I had to use unorthodox tools in different ways to do things to to create my sound. And I started to appreciate that more so, you know, just trial and error and just, you know, like said, I would put the yellow plug ins on a vocal or I would try a different gear I had laying around or something like a final process and plug them up and, you know, just be box into it or, you know, have one of the homies come rapper Freestylers, find a way to try to create a sound.

That was the reason.

Not that I think that is key. And I think that's big in kind of like your maturation artistically, because if you learn like in a box and if you taught in like a traditional way, maybe you're not as artistic as you are now. Maybe you don't see things the way you see them now.

But I agree with you 100 percent. When we talk about like those doing work out moves on the court. Right. Like that's like a work, but that doesn't have the same kind of flow to the game as somebody who just, you know, got it got it out to me, you know. Yeah.

That's the same thought process. You know, the game is awful. Music is the same as a in. I think, you know, you kind of react and you kind of set the tone as you go, you know, I'm saying so, you know, how do you know how to improvise in a different way because you tried and failed in 10 different type of ways. So, you know, if you're moving around or going away, you know what not to do with this Rothfels, because you try you have the same scenario in the past.

You know, you have like a Rolodex of failures in your head that you could pull from.

Exactly. I wanted to kind of expound on, like, just a craft in a routine. Like what was your routine like at that early age when you was trying to figure it out, like, was it get up in the morning, go straight to the studio all day? Like it was a routine, like because I know me as a youngster, like, that's why I built up that foundation. You know, I'm saying it's like every day figuring out this way I need to be like, what was that for you?

And I'd agree with you on this to take me back to this. This book that I read earlier, it's called Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell. And there's a chapter called The Ten Thousand Chapters or Ten Thousand Hours Theory. And it basically just states that become great in any field.

You need to acquire at least 10000 hours of training in that field.

You know, during this time out, I kind of, you know, started figuring the engineering out more. You know, top dog had this the studio, the back of his house where me, Kendrick, Owasso, Jay Rock, Salway, we all just slept on the floor, recorded each schoolboy. Q So you know that I was I was kicked out my grandkids, my grandkids. Malcolm and fuck shit. So I'm, you know, I'm, I'm in the streets.

Been lucky to have had this spot that we all you know, we all came from rough parts when we had this one thing in common, which was this backhouse that type has created for us to focus, not run in there. We not, you know, watching our backs, you know, we just create. And so our daily routine was just wake up, you know, put forward ideas together to try to go with chicken. And then we recorded all day long, you know, it was it was just so it was that was our only change to wake up in the morning and create music.

You know, I think another reason why we are who we are is because we were offered that opportunity. We had that opportunity to not focus on what happened to, you know, not focus on not having to watch our back all day long and, you know, dealing with the devices off the streets. You know, we had this place, you know, that we could just be ourselves and create, you know, through our lives, which lets me out about that is like, do you ever feel like you wish you were back in that space?

Like you have the world at your fingertips now. But it's a different energy, right?

It's a thousand. His father said different energy, you say. I lost my mind a few times. But, you know, it's you know, you care how I look at things. You know, you've got to you've got to accept moving forward. You know, you can't really dwell on the past. You've got to appreciate it and move forward because, you know, that's how you perseveres by just pushing through no matter what you do. You know, I do workshops and I talk to these kids all the time about, you know, mental health and, you know, how can you just create and just be in a creative space if you did, didn't er you know, you can't dwell on things you can't control.

You've got to be able to move forward to be able to reach that next step.

Now that's true in your profession is so solitary, like it's literally just you in the boys write for hours that it's all personal, it's a box and it gets me all day long.

The public is staring at a board. So it's like, imagine trying to listen to a snare, you know, ten, ten hours in a day. You know, you're going to have a whole bunch of thoughts running in your heads or you can't focus on the work. You know, just like I can imagine Katy with training, you know, if you're not clear, you can't be on the court doing what you've got to do because you've got to focus fully on the on the mission.

And the mission is to complete the task stuff.

So, you know, if you've got a smart approach to things, you know, so that's a question you I don't say I wish I was in the bars. I appreciate where I came from because it made me move different. You know, I have conversations different. I know. You know, I can sense what the fuck mate is approaching. You know, I just I appreciate the grind because it taught me to to sustain in this crazy industry that we are living and working.

Right. Right.

So one thing I want to and you kind of just, you know, dealing with a snare for for ten hours or whatever, you you work with some of the most iconic voices of our time right now. You know, you work says a candidate like literally their voices, not even the sound of their music, not even get to that. Do you feel pressure dealing with that and having to create these classics that, you know, you hear them before us and, you know, and it's like, yo, I got to give it that that extra push to push it to the next level?

You feel pressure with that?

That's funny, because in the beginning, like after we did at my city, like, you've got to really go back to Section eight, right? If you had a remarks, Section S.A.T. like that was a time to where like we laid the reason why a lot of the stuff sounds like that, even though it sounded dope, is we had broken mikes, you know, a lot of the vocals coming from broken microphones and things like that that we had to mask with other plug ins to make it sound like a in effect type shit.

So, you know, coming into a game like that, like I mentioned, I'm able to, you know, find a way to take something, a sound, make it sound completely different. So after a good game, I said after a section really gone, it's a good kid. Like we already had a formula to how we create music, you know, in that formula works to do things out the box. You know, when you listen to swimming pools, you know, you hear the quirky vocal that comes in and and goes left.

The right people remember that. And that's what I talk about in my workshops. Again, I tell kids, try to find a way to find a way to create a thumbprint with. That sounds where people can hear your work and experience it rather than just listening to another song. So, you know, working with new artists, you know, like I said in the beginning, it was it was mad.

It was super frustrating and intimidating because like doing like, do you guys want the sound that I taught myself to create and I didn't go to school. You guys want that sound or do you want this radio show that I'm hearing based on some in between doing what got me here and following trends that other people are doing that I look up to? So, you know, once I once I cross that threshold of being comfortable that, you know, people are coming to me and want myself or what I've done and what I've created, you know, that made me more confident, more comfortable to kind of go in the studio and just do me so you would see or, you know, camaraderie.

I already know, like, send it to Ali. And, you know, it's going to sound completely different from where I had it. You can complete my vision for me. So it's just years and years of respect, of people understanding that, you know, it's a formula that we create that makes sense.

Yeah. So you spoke about earlier how Dre inspired you as a as you were coming up. Like, what is that relationship with him like now, man?

It's like it's like Big Brother, you know, this is, you know, just just the fact that, you know, I was able to work with them to an extent that we did a good kid, my city and beyond.

You know, it's a dream come true. Like I could die happy at that point. Just, you know, if you're from the city, you know, you listen to the DRE, you know, you know, it's going to it's going to sound incredible. And, you know, I was always a kid of speak things into existence and just understanding the energy universe. So I always said I'm working on one day. But how it happened, it was more of, like I said, relationships crazy.

But it's just a surreal moment, you know, it's like fucking Dr. Dre.

So, you know, I'm grateful to have that opportunity. A lot of people don't.

And he still mixes everything analog. That's the thing, 100 percent.

That's 100 percent, you know, nowadays because music is pumped out so quickly.

You know, so many artists drop and mix tapes of albums every single day that, you know, they get lost in the trend of just a digital world just working solely inside the computer, you know, which is not wrong. You know, a lot of people can make it work for them. But, you know, there's just this this sound that just comes out of these boards from electricity.

You know, it's it's it's not ones and zeros like the computer is electricity. It's moving the sound. And, you know, from the techniques that Dre taught me, you know, being able to manipulate them in a way that works for you, you know, I was able to master the analog sound that Dre taught me to fuse it with the digital shit that I came with the game understanding. And I kind of fused together to kind of create myself.

It's funny you say people come out with music so often.

I think the criticism of your camp is that you don't come out as often as people would like. Does that frustrate you? Because I know you are working and I know you see the work is that frustrates you to hear it.

It is so frustrating to hear it. I mean, I definitely understand. You know, I'm saying but we're a group where we're at camp quality over everything, you know, if it's not ready or not ready, you know, and one thing about our family is like, you know, everyone has input on what's worked. So, you know, there's no yes man circle. One person has to feel a certain way about a project, about a song.

You know, we all got to hit the round table. We've got to get around. So, you know, it's all we like to formally has since looking at sitting and watching, you know, you know, cause we hear the pressures of the people in the streets talking about, you know, like that should get to, you know, so, you know, this is what got us here is just having that mindset. And, you know, what's the point of changing it now?

Because it's something that what's that process like? You're like a two year, three year album making cycle like. Are these songs literally just taking months and months at a time? Like you're just not settled on the mix. You like the album, you like to say like, what are you going through over this amount of time?

It depends on the artist that I'm working with. You know, like Kendrick is different from like a jaywalker school. What he says is different from summer. You know, he wants a certain type of way. You know, it's all relative to the specific artists that we deal with. But at the end of the day, it's it's all the same. You know, this this mix up process, this step is the final process of creating a project.

So, you know, it's the only time you really get to fine tune and run through everything with a calm. I really get everything right, you know, and I think a lot of artists like that working because I really go through each record and, you know, and go through with the phone call and try to find every every little imperfection to try to figure it out. You know, that's why you don't see me doing so many singles.

I rather do full projects because I want to be able to make sure everything's consistent. Everything is is up to par to a specific standard that I said, you know, can we talk about Nipsy?

You mentioned the fact. What was that? What was his process like? Because I know there's a lot of talk about how particular he could be.

And and I know was he when he passed, he made fun of kind of like he only likes to record at these times. You know what? He could make it there. And he seemed like a professional doing, too.

I know the times that I seen him at shows and things like that, like he was you can see how much that kind of calculation he has for everything it mattered. Like it showed up on the stage.

It showed up in the way he presented himself is that didn't happen in studios were my first RB, my brother man, my super meticulous man, as you should be, you know, super calculated, you know, any super hands on with every aspect of his business, you know, and I say business because the music. Part of his business, you know, it was an early bird, you know what we did? We literally slept in a studio for three months, you know, was working at at that time.

I'm dealing with some mental health. Should he have an OK here? We said we will work all morning and sit back and smoke up and just have live conversations for the next six hours.

And, you know, just being each other's bartender, you know, it was it was it was a humbling moment. But yeah, you know, but that experience was that was the first album that he had professionally makes, you know, because he's such a DIY. Do you know every project before that, you know, his lyrics recorded, put it out, recorded, put it out. So that process of mixing kind of kind of was skipped.

So, you know, I go back years, years just from being in the same, you know, being from L.A. But when we finally got the time to work each other on a victory lap, you know, and he was able to see my process on the board, understand what went to it, like the respect for change, and know we had a couple of projects in the works before, you know, forced his untimely death.

I was listening to some see it on shuffle the other day and in a song there would come on. And it's like the crispness of that sound is like jarring, like you could say, all right, that's a different level of just like clean this to that. It really, really sticks out is crazy.

I mean, that's that's what my mission statement is in his music. You know, if I can if I can help Levator, if I can help elevate the quality of music, what makes that a time? You know, the next ten years, my kids going to listen to everything. Astolfi, it sounds my note, but in the grand scheme of things, this is what got me it respect for this game. You I was just thinking that deep to plant these sonic seeds you know and have and have and have some type of legacy in the game long term when it comes to just audio and quality in general terms.

And they're not saying a lot, you know, because you're looking at the history of this game. We're looking at where it can go and seeing you step into the game and like having so much respect after years and years, like, do you ever look at it and feel content? Sometimes they're like, man, I've done so much, you know, in this game and I've improved over so much time. Like, what keeps you going? You know, I'm saying, what else do you want to continue to keep doing?

Like, what are the milestones you want to hit?

I mean, it's just it's just seeing the progress that has been I understand at times, you know, when I was mixing music ten years ago is completely different from how mix of music now, you know, and I think that's what breeds longevity is being able to understand the next wave of things. And luckily, you know, I'm able to understand the waves of things, understand the sound of tomorrow, so I can kind of keep my relative. But you know what can go as I understand where I'm at and seeing what's next.

You know, I'm always a guy that's trying to figure out what's next. You know, how how can I how can I take what I'm doing to the next level? And from that, you know, we we created engineers, which is a platform to kind of teach the game. You know, I basically started a platform to to give all the up and coming the next generation sound the game that I wish I had coming into to my personal experiences and build this full community that I can give back to any given time.

So, you know, I realize that I have a big following as an engineer, not as a producer or anything else. And that's big. You know, that speaks volumes to, you know, the respect that I have and the respect that, you know, that that was respected by my name, Grant.

So I feel like the next step was to teach and to give back into to have my name through. Have my name lived through thousands and hundreds of thousands of kids worldwide and spread the wealth? You know, shit that I wish these days nowadays and I get to work. I think that I wish that they did for me. But, you know, I could always be the one to shift the paradigm.

Yeah. So tell us about engineers I've read a lot about on Instagram, the whole nine. Tell us about the program.

So the platform itself, aside from the workshops, the platform itself is aimed to be a business and a box solution for audio engineers to basically streamline their business via an automated workflow that we created between audio engineers and artists globally. So the goal goal essentially is to create a set of business in a box for engineers to sustain and manage their business.

I read a few articles about the program and the workshops you do with it in like one of them was talking about. You put the layers of the box, like on four different screens and broke down the box by rich, like layer by layer, in track by track. It sounds ridiculous and like the future to me, like crazy. And also would have brought about you wanting to do that.

And it just kind of tell us more about what your mission is there, what you're doing, what engineers engineer started out just being just an outlet that we created to really give back to my core following, you know, again, by doing deconstructions and just doing a workshop, telling my story, you know, me being from the hood and, you know, stealing food from Albertsons just so I could eat to get to the session at night like that shit that kids are dealing with today.

So I'm not going to put myself on a pedestal and act like I didn't do that. Like I didn't rob Craigslist just so I can get the money to go get my equipment for, you know, I'm saying like, I'm I'm for me because I'm me. I'm here because I did what I did. So I'm glad people know you can be yourself and you can still drive to my story.

But do through through the workshops we realized that, you know, there's there's a real community, there's a real need for information. And also these kids are dealing with a lot of the things that I was dealing with, with not knowing how to manage their self as an engineer, not knowing, you know, how to go to contracts, not knowing how to get clients or not knowing how to manage clients. So after, you know, understanding the workshops, you know, we've done 15 around the world from, you know, from Korea, Japan.

We did all through Europe, Canada states. We we decided to do a platform. So, you know, it's actually tomorrow we're launching the engineers platform, you know, as a platform for engineers to kind of post our business and have a place to manage their workflow coming in and have a place to really handle all things for their personal self. So instead of giving a percent off to managers and I really don't think for them, they have a full profile that they can now get booked, that they can now host and host all the services that they're providing.

They can now have, you know, seamless conversations and a seamless workflow with clientele anywhere around the world.

So, you know, through the workshops and through understanding what these people wanted, we decided to launch a platform which right now that's crazy not to like in the last like the last few decades between what you can contribute, you know, to be with you and interact with you.

I feel like the engineer has gotten more prominence. And one thing I do notice that you do is I do give back. I do try to help out. You are not stingy with the knowledge like you see somebody like Parke's from Joe Biden Puckers or Alex Dumais, who works with young thug like you, are always passing around knowledge.

It seems like it's just like a selfless profession. Do you see it like that?

So I'm in fact I mean, I say it's a simple, simple quote. You know, I'm saying like, I could teach somebody how to twist a knob a certain way, but they don't listen to it a different way, you know, and again, it just stems back to like me begging for knowledge to people that I once looked up to. And they were just, you know, putting me to the side because they thought, hey, this kid is going to take my job one day.

But instead, if you just gave him life and just like, fought with them, you know, then, you know, I could have I could have been his little you know, I'm saying it's like you've got to if it goes back to the streets of Tehran and that's how you create legacy is by just giving back to your people. They love you for life.

It I think that's where it does come from, too. Like like you you like to grow. You always want to put people on and like give people opportunity. And we just talked about this when he was in New York, like, you know, you could I could give you the water, OK? I show you where the water comes from.

Right. The rest is on you. Yeah, exactly. What does that come from UK means the same mentality. You know, you see that one person in the neighborhood that fucks with all the kids that always give him back, always giving their time and energy and knowledge too. And you like them? I want to be like that person. I want to have people that listen to every word that I say that trust me, that, you know, are vulnerable.

We open, transparent with each other, like you want that relationship with people. You want to feel and connect with people, especially if you got something in common, you know. So you see around, you know, as a kid, I seen that and people know me. I just want to be there if I ever get some some type of power influence, you know, so it's just it just feels like the right thing to do.

It keeps you grounded you for me, it's so easy to get your mind lost and a lot of shit, you know, you need people to keep grounded every aspect of. Definitely. Hey, guys, Eddie here and I want to talk to you guys about our friends, our housemates, I got my kids in town from the West Coast, been here for a few weeks, terrible cook. So I rely on post mates almost every day. And, you know, right now, with the signs being what it is and everything going on, it's a little icky to just kind of go out, sit down in a restaurant, eat some food, whatever, and possibly it's really helps.

There they got no contact delivery's dropped your stuff right off at the door. Don't even have to see them. Give them a nice tip because they're still doing a lot of good work for you. And that's my deal.

You know, when his dad started to cook dinner, eh, we're probably going to post something. That's just how I get down. They also have post pickup, which I've been using a ton as well. We order takeout from my favorite local restaurants.

And, you know, you got to support local right now because these small businesses, they need all the help they can get.

But it's not for just food and pizza and tacos and whatever I'm ordering for the kids, they pick up everything, everything I need from places like Walgreens or 7-Eleven.

And again, drop it off right outside your door. I just had to use it the other day. Got a new dog, need at least needed a collar. They were able to pick that stuff up for me, made it so simple, made it so easy, so downlow. Post meit's on your iOS or Android. You get anything delivered within the hour. Plus for a limited time, Postmus is giving our listeners one hundred dollars of free delivery credit for your first seven days to start with free deliveries.

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I don't know you as well as I know Kevin obviously, but jarboe sound, that's the perfect word. I'd describe both. We are both seem grounded and just people trip when when you asked me about Kevin I'm like he's just normal, you know what I mean. And people trip out on it and expecting you to be some whole other thing. And I'm like, you know, he's just a regular do.

And that's a good thing to meet up because you've got this crowd that run around the and girls, I do believe. Yeah. You know, we talk about that as quick as you got it.

If you take it from you. I'm saying Bumble Bee.

Yeah, most definitely not. That's true. Like, that's that's one of the things I learned really, really early on when I really, really got in.

The media is like how you treat people because how you treat people, the people you see on the way up, you can see them on the way down facts and on the way down is that laughter on the way down and then from the left on Facebook, you know, let's jump up to some music stuff.

I got some like I wanna hear some stories in a studio, like man, as you were recording, was joyous that you knew was going to be the ones, you know, I'm saying like a Kendrick, you know, as a recording, which was as you know, I mean, it sounds cliche to say it sounds like this is bullshit, but I'm like I'm just I love anything he does, bro, is just fucking incredible.

But, you know, it's it's like when we did a butterfly, you know, coming off of good came, I said, you know, I just got dealt with with schoolboy's album with an oxymoron. I think I just did my crazy life.

So like my mindset is just rap like yeah. I'm saying crazy, just crazy rap.

And occasionally, you know, he started recording this album, start making this album so many live instruments. The guys on the intro on Wesley Steerable, I keep saying this shit. There's two hundred eighteen tracks where I've never mixed.

Like I said, I'm I'm self-taught, so I've never fucking I never make it on.

I never met anybody is on the wrong track. Twelve piece band.

I never went to shit but the type I do that I am I'm like all right I'm not going to let these niggas know. I don't know what the fuck I'm doing here.

I'm just figure it out. I'm a I'm a along the way and we go to see what happens. The worst thing say like we got that's so, you know, doing a butterfly.

But it was the most humbling experience probably to this day because, you know, I was you know, the way that the weight, the pressure was so heavy on my back to just get this right because it was a new world to me. It's like wild lands and upright bass and crazy keys and like it was incredible. It was incredible situation, but it was frightening. But so, you know, you know, like I said, that whole mixed metal album was just a journey in itself, just just trying to find a way to fuse all the old instruments and create a new sound with them.

You know, those crazy Mentos. I remember them so vividly to where we just had no top dog came in the room on top. Right. I was mixing the seven days, no exaggeration. Just the drum roll.

Seven, seven, eight. I get tired walking around like crazy.

He's like he pulled me to the side, you know, top dog, like, turn over.

I think you need to bring somebody else into the seat. And I'm just like I'm like Daddy because I really like like, you know, top. It was real chill and low tone, real chill is like, so I'm like damn like mushy according to my reasoning, it's found out.

But I'm like, you know, just maybe I mean, I'm like, nah, like we got it.

But it was just it was just the perfectionist, you know, like because it was a new realm. It was a new world to me. I'm like, why? I needed to get it right after the classic of the kid. We just drop like I up is the only way. So I have to ask, do you have to show in every aspect of the creativity, which is album, the lyrics to the style and the production. So I wanted to make sure my piece was holding up to everyone else's.

And it was just the pressure, like every day was just, you know, it was no.

But towards the end of the album, you know, doing all right. And all these other records, you know, all when I heard all right, I was like always around. We figured it out. We figured it was a rap. That was one of the ones.

Yeah, but I was one. I was one of the songs of the decade. You asked me I should have led the marches.

It was it was it was I'm saying there was a lot that came by. And I recall when I heard it, it was some type of energy, like, I'm not I'm not like I said, I don't go to school for the show.

So I'm not really one. And there was more about feeling for you. And when I know some is right, when I feel it, no one is right and it's like them is right. And I got that feeling of all right. And then I'm all for it just took off.

We asked this about Drake. We had to ask about Kendrick. So there's no way how hands on is he in this process, like even in your process where he feels like the song is over. How, how how hands on are we talking about it in the song?

Actually, no, he don't hear all of these. Like, I just nigga like he's such he's he's he's he's a genius to say the least, you know, like that's I honestly believe that's what we all got our work ethic from because we just got to keep up to this, you know, is how he writes, how he performs, how he how he just inspires everybody around him to do better. Like, it's just, you know, it's it's it's one of the main man, but he's hands on every way from from if he has to finding samples on his own and they're handling the sample of the specific producers to create different versions.

So to see which one he likes to you know, it's crazy, man. That's one of the most articulate jazz surgical dudes I've met in my life.

So you talk about like different versions is how much stuff gets left on the cutting room floor for TDE specifically, because obviously he did Untitled Unmastered.

Like, how much are we talking for Kendrick alone? Let me say, I think we could put together like six albums and, you know, we got everyone is the same way. You know, it's all about just understanding that you guys always do something better. You know, it's as if it's having their minds dictated to strive for the best possible version of you possible. And that's that's that's you know, as candidates on my side is just always trying to do better, whether it's recording a new verse, you know, he would record a whole song and get one ad back a month later because you don't like how he brekky, breathed the ad lib.

You know, there's you know, it's being that detail with it is what separates the kids from the from the man. The good from great is just being that particular with every corner of a star really get into a crevice and understanding every piece of, you know, he's a true artist.

You're doing these albums, you know, we're talking over it by summer. We're talking control with Scissors. We're talking Kinzer's albums. Obviously, Oxmoor, these are like personal album. Some of these are like, you know, they're dealing with demons.

You know, you did a with Mike Miller.

Who was that like in in the studio as you crafting these things and you kind of like going through these you're watching them pulling skeletons at the closet, you just kind of got to sit there and watch it the whole time. What's that like for you?

It kind of it puts me in my place, you know, and here and here and here and, you know, a verse back over and over and over and over until it's right. It kind of you know, you have no you have no choice but to pick the mirror up and down. Is he talking to me? You know, so there's a lot of that personally, but it just it just it just gets me to better understand how I'm working with, you know, I'm the type of girl who if I don't if I can't buy, which on a personal level is no money worship, you know, I got to really be able to fly with you and and understand what was put into this album so I can put what I need to a project.

And, you know, that's that's that's that's that's kind of what I did for it every time. It's just how can I how can I add the piece of me, you know, to complete a puzzle that they they created and crafted off of their, you know, trials and tribulations or misfortunes or or anything positive. You know, it's just it's just finding a way to add a little piece of me to that.

Can we talk about macro quick? You guys will close, right? We can. Can't, man. As my brother man. Arpita man.

So what album like Divine Feminine. He's doing a lot of singing. He's not he's not the best vocalist of all time. What's that like for you as you guys are kind of putting it together. How to make that work. Incredible album. I love that.

And it was tough. It was tough because I knew how much it was hurting. You know, like again, we work on albums. It takes months to complete. And I remember I'm in the exact studio now that we're doing it. And, you know, I get to see the pain. I see the pain that he was dealt with and. And you know, it you know, it just it just it just it just adds a level of empathy into the whole situation.

A lot of people can understand and see, you know, these are so closed off and so on and so forth. But you know that a. Yeah, yeah, I know that answer your question was that was different. No, I get you like, you know, it's it's he's he's very unique because I had seen him at shows and festivals a couple of times doing writing stuff. And he was such a bright personality. And then he put this music out and he's clearly in a different place with he's made his music.

And it's crazy to see that shows you how selfless and they go like, you know, everyone got them people to come around and bring our clothes with, you know, killing the energy of the whole room. That's not him. Like, you would never know what he's going to do. He bites, you know. And, you know, in in a sense, it's a gift and a curse because, you know, people suffer and suffer in darkness with those, you know, they suffer along with those dark clouds.

And he was one of the people, like we talked about earlier, like he tried to put everybody on.

You know, there's the famous sessions at his house in L.A. and, you know, you schoolboy, schoolboy cut his teeth, the staples like a whole a whole gang of people.

And everybody was in L.A. just rocking with you. And you could see, like, he's got to be super genuine. There's no way everybody's fucking would do like this if he's not going away.

So I always say that's that's the six member of Black Hippy right there. It's just a game. People don't realize how a young man like you I'm saying like, yeah, yeah.

So he moved to L.A., didn't know anybody, you know, everybody probably trying to take advantage of them. Like you said, somebody come across a person like you just embrace him. And he loved it.

You know, we all loved him. You know, especially I just, you know, just it's like just having another boy around you could you could talk shit about. I was starting to just talk about a little more. Fuck it. It's just it's just one of the boys man, which is one of the boys I missed. I do.

So when it comes to like being in a studio, like it then wants to try to turn it off, like what is that like for you?

It's turn and turn it off.

It's like, where did you leave the studio? You with the Sam, you with the like. What is that like? Because I know the music is always in your head.

That's the toughest thing about saying this, about this. I'm sure you deal with the same shit, which is not how to move it around.

Yeah, I'm lucky. My daughter, she kind of keeps me grounded. You know, she she demands all of my undivided attention. So, you know, at times, you know, she's my escape. But, you know, at the end of the day, you know, I just I'm just one of those guys who, like I always think, like, this is a once I'm in the Super Bowl, like they once the ones lifetime opportunity, not crazy to say my focus would be like, yo, you made it.

Oh, that is. But it's like, yo, like, what's next? You know, if I could do this, like the job being done, I'm thirty years old. I was next. And that's how I think is just consistently trying to find things to move for.

So even when I'm at home sales cycle to say, but when I'm at home, I'm just I'm in my office just, you know, just figuring it out, trying to see what the next move is.

So you constantly studying new stuff, you searching for new information at all times?

I'm constantly searching and have so much to learn, whether it's reading, whether with is self-help books, trying to figure out how I could be the best weapon myself, working out, you know, reading more, you know, just trying to find a way to to be the best possible me in all aspects of my career, personal life, business life, relationships, you know, just constantly just searching for information to so much out there. You know, knowledge is power.

I once had a friend who worked in TV and they were telling me how they basically can't enjoy TV anymore because they know how it's made.

They see what's going on. Yeah, I see you face you like that.

What music is it like that bother you. But all right, if you make the homies in the corner, they know that the right violence is really solid.

The only the only time I'm living in the car and I'm listening to it makes it to and from the studio. If I'm going to drive somewhere quiet, like, you know, I guess the only that's the only time in my life that I'm not it's not loud around either. I'm in the studio and it's going up. I'm at the house or I'm with Armus and it's always going crazy. So it's like that's the only time that I got to myself to be in my thoughts.

I might listen to audiobooks honestly, but besides that, you know, it's quiet.

I mean, I is it just the noise or like you can, like, decipher the music? And is that does that stick out to you? You know what I mean? Like you hear singing like I would I did it like this.

That's one hundred percent. One reason I can't enjoy the music, that constant critique I would break the song though I would have done is different or I would do that. I don't even try to play some shit that I worked on. Like what?

I might keep you up really well. But for the most part, it's it's just, you know, that's the only time that I'm not thinking when I'm driving, you know, when I'm in the studio, I'm thinking about how I can make it sound better when I'm at home. I'm thinking about, you know, some other shit when I'm with my girl. So I'm saying, so that's the only time that I get I get to it's almost like meditation, if you can ask.

I'm able to kind of organize my thoughts for the day when I take that long drive to the studio every morning.

So every time I have you learn how to play instruments and make beats. Yeah. I mean, I dabble. I dabble. Fuck around.

You have a no for for any of the game. Yeah. I produce a few records. I have to use that. A lot of people are not as my grandma name. Every time I just walk around, I was draftsmanship, I did explain a first beat ever produce was with absolute recrossed for the most part. Again, I'm still a student of the game to where, you know, I still feel like I am perfected this year of trying to get into tech.

I am that. So it's just, you know, I like to keep a lot of my eggs and, you know, close to me. So I'm spreading myself too thin.

Yeah. Seeing early in your career, you kind of like, shied away from being a quote unquote producer. But you had to be right in a sense, what you do, right.

I mean, if you type you speak of it like that. And then I already am producing, you know, I take some vocals and chop it up and do some crazy talk. I wasn't as vocal production and I think that's what I enjoy most is when I'm in the moment not creating something with no vocals over it. You know, that that doesn't satisfy my EDV. I got to sit there and fine tune as I go.

Do you have a favorite project of all the things you've done? Is it unfair to ask that man? No, not really. I mean, this is so much like. I mean, I recently read the radio, which the Ravichandran was part of my favorite the recently, just the way he elevated, where he elevated, you know, just just being able to fuse a lot of loud guitar instruments with that awaits him. And the way he kind of just glides and skates over records is just pleasing to the ear is incredible love.

Well, I was one of my favorite artists, but I think that was that was I was one of my favorite albums working on over the past year or so.

You got a lot of accomplishments ahead of you. Grammy season is coming up. It's going to be one of the stranger Grammys.

I can't imagine the state of the world in order, you know, catch me in a hazmat suit and there with some flyers level.

But I'm guessing we're going to see a lot of your work up there on the big screen.

What are you looking forward to, a Grammy season and in your new role with the committee and all that?

I think just that, you know, just excited to enter a new role with the BFC and being able to just push initiative with with with with with good intentions, you know, be able to give back to a community that has respected me and has gave me this pedestal to be able to support my family. So, you know, our goal is to inspire the next mix. Believe that makes sense.

Right. This is got to be ready. Right. And I'm going to.

I got to be right. Went crazy, right? Yeah, man, he he had a phenomenal year.

Shout out to Roddy Rich, the one for. How do you not win Song of the Year with the box. How does that not happen? That's why we got to wait.

We got to wait till it happened, man. We got to all be out there with a wood picket and protest at the box.

We're going to get the campaign together. Yeah, I got one.

And I hope Roddy Roddy does very well at the Grammys. But regardless, man, he's an amazing artist with or without the Grammys, you know, but, you know, he's just being cited for what he has coming out. Man, kid. Right. There is some special his success has been exciting.

And he's, you know, in this new era of music, you get to see everybody from stage one. A lot of times you didn't used to see that. You didn't used to sing until it was a ready made product. I seen that record.

Yeah. We're working with day. Like I'm sitting here watching him, how hungry he was coming and he dropped this crazy album. And it's just it's just hard to see that how hungry and happy and inspired these people are coming into the game. It's refreshing. You know, it's really refreshing.

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We've watched Kevin grow up literally like we've seen him from 18, from 17 to who he is now as an adult and he's, you know, we all still are grown to do. But you see that with these artists who we what we can find his first video right now, watch and be like, yo, what? And so that's what makes the success of Dr. See him where he's at now. Top of the world, just kicking.

No one's out like it's nothing and having a part of him. So that doesn't that doesn't hurt as well.

So you suffered one of the biggest Grammy snubs ever in my mind. You know, you now like fighting against that in a real way. Tell us about your spot. Leadership Council on the Black Music Collective, the recording academy.

You feel snubbed, right? You left there like pissed.

I mean, you see, I'm a young male from the set. I'm happy to be in the building, bro.

Okay. Yeah, somebody is Masterfoods. You you know, you want to dance with me, I, I do not go be hot.

But know I'm saying, you know, there you go.

I would not be upset but you know, you know, prevail, you know, years later, you know, most of the ones came after that.

But you know. So yeah. I mean you said fuck we got, we got to for sure.

But there you go. It is being a B in a, B or C, the Black Leadership Council. It's dope. It's being able to because of course being nominated and being involved with the voting, all that's different will be able to make change. To Harvey Mason, a shout out to Rick Morales and everyone who put it on. I think it's a way for us to really grab a hold of our music and be able to to to to give these all artists the respect they deserve rather than just people in the building.

Just pointing out the names because they recognize the names. You know, we really listen to the music. We really indulge in the music. So that is really, you know, take heed and and and do what we need to do. You know, let us let us let us do that. I think something like that is needed, especially this time, you know, like last year, Tyler, you know, Tyler has a lot of albums are put in specific categories that don't belong.

It's like there's no we always thought that to.

Yeah, I'm saying there's no real structure in how, you know, like you share and pop records go off in the rap shit like this, you know, and I think this way it'll be more geared towards giving these artists to just do, especially now when they're still undecided between singing and rap.

You know, like, yeah, I always thought it was different genres within the rap category. The right it should be right. There needs to be. They do that with rock, right. They do that with pop music. They break it up into these little pieces. Right. Right. So that's that's the conversation that we're having. And it's just trying to figure out how to do it to please everybody. But I think I think this is good.

This is change. And I couldn't be more grateful to be a part, you know, some amazing people on the board, on the council. And I think this initiative is really going to shift, you know, the next generation of how the Grammys are perceived in rap music. Yeah, I know.

When I was writing, like heavily, I knew other sitting down. I don't really get to it as much as I'd like to, but that was one of my crusades. Like the Grammys, just completely disrespect hip hop. They disrespect black music. And to me is always just like they literally don't know, like you have people in the academy saying, yeah, I didn't know the hours were. So I got to pick that album. And you're watching these iconic classic.

Oh, my good kid is like one of my top five albums ever in it. How does it not win album of the year 2000? Not the best rap out. Like what are we doing here? You know, I mean, I look at that.

I mean, should we take that being a mortar sad sometimes you gotta you got to you've got to take the bad with the good. You've got to go do that to be able to create these initiatives, you know.

So I'll now I'll take that as that, you know, we sacrifice that for us to be able to to create the body and move forward. And a whole different light. Yeah.

I mean, it's necessary. It's necessary. And I'm happy that that's going on because the Grammys is supposed to be prestigious. You know, it's supposed to be. And I think we got to a place where people like, you know, fuck the Grammys, but it shouldn't be like that.

And exactly. Exactly. So it was two days before before the credibility goes out the window, hey, let us come in to clean the shit of us and let's do it the right way, how it should be done.

And that's what we're doing, you know, and it's not even about like putting our music ahead of like just put our music on an even platform and let you all appreciate it for what it really is. And so, yeah, like I like what you are doing in the rap category.

When we were at first it wasn't even really being televised, you know, which is crazy, but you know.

Yeah, yeah. Well yeah, yeah.

It would announce that on the side on the ticker and say rap is probably the biggest challenge right now, like the most popular one.

Everybody wanted to see who won them.

So like I know in your earlier days, you had less tech. Obviously I've seen you talk about using crack plug ins, crack crack programs and stuff. Yeah.

Now you have everything you could possibly have, anything you could possibly want. Does how does that change your process in that way?

Of course. National news makes it better, but I don't I don't discourage the youth in letting them know that you need all these shiny buttons and tools to make that sound. You know, the system that Dr. Dre told me earlier is not what you're working on and who's president, but you can make a hit record off of, you know, start gear and start plug ins where it's knowing how to implement the right tools that you need at a time to move forward and create a better sound.

You know, a lot of people would think that they need all these hundreds of thousand dollars of equipment and gear just ahead of, you know, the equipment, your ears, you know, how to know how to tune them up to create that sound. But it doesn't help. I'm not going to be here like this. You don't make it sound better, but it's not. Don't be discouraged.

I think you need it, especially with something like sound.

So how do you go about teaching people to know what sounds good and like in your program and things like that?

I just keep it on it. Like it's like I'm not blowing smoke. I'm not turning it off for vocal tone. This up one DB at five hundred. I'm not doing that like, you know, I give them the way of my teaching is basically I let them know how I do it and I tell them to try to find a way to implement my technique into your own arsenal. You know, I try to find a way to tape what I do to add it to your own vision and your own sonic vision to create your own sound.

So I break songs down. I do deconstructions, breaking songs down to basically reverse engineering, the sessions showing, showing, showing the attendees what specific gear or plug ins that I did use and why did I use it? What was my mindset behind it? Why did I do this versus doing that? Just to get them to understand the technique behind it, you know? And again, that's that's the way that I would like to be told. I don't like I don't like to be talked to where they tell you this is the way to do it and you're going to be fucking rich.

That's not like I just let everybody know the real you know, this is a lot more real. And, you know, I'm saying exactly how I do it and maybe more, maybe more, way more receptive to it. You know, there's this hearing, somebody at my hearing, somebody at my at my you know, where I'm at my career, tell them that, you know, it's not about overthinking and it's about just being, you know, being yourself and being able to feel the music rather than being scientific and supercritical.

I think I think that has inspired more than I can imagine.

You know, Kev, you just said something like similar to that recently. You were saying, you know, people think you could go down the same path and get the same results and they don't work like that.

Like, would you mean it's always, you know, find out who you are first and find out what works best for you. And, you know, I can give you, you know, my experiences and what I've learned throughout this journey. But at the end of the day, you don't have to live your own. So, you know, as you can say, you want to be the next such and such. But all in all actuality, he's just trying to figure out yourself and how you could be the best that you can be, you know, so it's all about being an individual.

You know, we attach ourselves to people and want to be like them. But at the same time, you got to know you've got to build your own identity.

So, yeah, we see you in the studio. There's this really highly anticipated albums that we know you're going to have your hands on.

Can you tell us what you are on? Can you let us keep it just an. No, we don't got to get a release.

You know, I got I got to get a deal with Cardiomyocytes indicated. There you go.

It is not. There's a few projects that, of course, obviously I can't speak about. But I was doing right now, I just wrapped up Rockhampton. I'm doing some menos album. What is on the board? What else can I say to the guys?

The camera? A little bit of the guys. All right. I'll let you know.

You know, because of quarantining, there's there's a lot of artists working. There's a lot of artists working right now. And twenty twenty one is going to fucking it's going to be an ambush music, which, you know, grateful to say that I had a big hand in a lot of. How do you go about choosing who to work with?

Are you one of the more on demand?

You know, and I like I got to like, you know, like I got to have a conversation with you, like, for one, I don't need I don't I don't need the project.

But it's more of if I'm going to sit here and spend ten hours on a snare, but we got to be able to sit and talk about like we got to be able to have some type of like I don't want to come into the studio and it's just like I can't even turn around and make you hungry. Like I it's got to be personal. You know, I turned on a lot of shit. I turned on a know, quite frankly, a lot of music doesn't inspire me today, you know, a lot of the stuff.

Monotone and sound the same. So I carefully pick projects that for one challenge me. So you know what, I can I can still sharpen up my own night.

And it just just just just artist.

I'm good at selecting artists to work with that, you know, on the rise. And they're about the bubble. You know, I got one right here and a few other projects. So I like to I like to stay on the cusp of what's going on just so I can, you know, be be one of the guys to kind of help move this sound forward.

Like I told you, I that's your high to. Right. You gotta be able to rock with somebody working. Yeah.

It's got to be you got to have a relationship because more times than not just going to be wanting to shoot the shit like you just want to talk about life, talk about sports.

Well, you know, I've said so like you said, you spent so much time being of service to somebody, at least, you know, the my fucking friend, you know, there's no thousand percent we in a box all day long.

I got to be able to like I guess I've got to be able to clown you on some funny shit. I got to be able to we got to you know, I'm saying it's got to be luck.

It's a weird dynamic, right. Because because like I know even with Kevin, like because we doing so much work together now, we don't often get to have like, yo, what you up to conversation. So do you feel like, I guess in a way kind of like your relationships?

In a way, yeah. Because it's like it kind of almost like you almost don't feel human no more, you know, because it's just so much business that there's no time for the person, you know. But, you know, I feel like an important to to to sometimes step back into, you know, time back in and, you know, just tap back in on a regular level. You know, I hate it when when I take some of us because we're doing so much work.

I take so many automated things. It's about work right now. I'm just checking in on my phone.

And those are the type of relationships I like to have with who I'm working with. I want to I want to be able to build long term relationships. I want to be involved, you know, sonically as much as I can. You know, if I'm investing my all time, investing my whole everything into this project. And it's a debut. I want to see this look out for the next ten years. Yeah, yeah.

We we, Kev, like to say, you know, here, invite somebody to the crib before he fucking like give them a job if we work with them. Man, you need to. You got to really. I was somebody you were running to sell me for one weirdo's, I am saying, yes, you know, you run into you cancer that just plague your whole circle, you know, all type of shit to watch out for nowadays, because if we say no, just talk and work, you know what I mean?

Like, this is going to kill whatever we want to do. Like, we got to be able to, like, put the computer down and be like, yo, did you see this? Did you how did you hear this? Yeah, this is cool. You you like you've got to be able to do that.

And it just makes it it makes it all businesslike. And that's when it's all business. Exactly. It can be all business like you. And I appreciate and respect the business, but I'm not about our business, you know, because for me to put my all into that business, I got to like.

So I'm asking everybody the same question. And we've been getting these private people on here in asking this kind of invading their privacy.

But like what? What are you into outside of the studio? I know you saw my earlier you know, your daughter keeps you grounded, but you like to drive around in silence. I kenenisa you listening to like what are you into.

Like what do you what do you do when you're not working randomly. I'm a real history buff. I love history. You know, I'm a I'm a librarian in college and I was raised by my Polish half a grandmother and then they suffered after World War Two. I went to all the Siberian camps and all that.

And so early on, you know, my granny always, always just told me stories and shit that she really dealt with. You know, her family died trying to escape camps and all types of crazy nonsense. So randomly, I knew to this day, because I travel so much, I see these places firsthand and I can really touch the walls of these erected buildings and I could feel the energy from those times. So I had, you know, all that to say this.

I do a lot of history starching. I watch a lot of documentaries. I like the medieval times and, you know, Roman empires and shit like that.

I just again, I like to just just ask for information, you know, that's how they thought the way they were, they did back in the day. You can you know, they hit you with little bars that you can use in today's time.

That's real dope. I know when I was in college, I took like a humanities class on accident. I didn't mean to sign up for it. And they literally teaching you how, you know, these civilizations worked and they burned them down and literally built on top of them. So as they're excavating, they're picking new cities out from the ground. I see in like I was the same way, like I had a got in history when I did, as I noticed what, like, blew my mind.

Right. But I I'm not too complex. My God. I just I I've been through a lot of party phases, like I'm done with that now. I'm literally I work my ass off and I try to be the best father I can still try to be the best human. Right.

Right. So when I when I researched you and looked up your Grammy history, the Grammy website list, Touba says you have three. How many Grammys do you have?

I got three trophies and I got about 12 certificates. Right. Basically, as an engineer to get a trophy, you have to have worked on over 51 percent of that project.

Or if it's a single, then it has to be in the categories of song, a record of the year, I think, record of the year, the only trophy that engineers get for a single record. So I got a trophy for. For this is America, Donald Glover, and then I got to I got to trophy's for a dam and a typical butterfly, but I got from from pretty much a lot of I was over 90 percent of the albums that I worked on are nominated for are nominated for Grammys.

So I got a certificate. What do you keep your Grammys? I ask heaviness like when I first met them. Where do you keep your rings when you give your Grammys?

I just bought a house, so like literally brother all just sitting under the stairs in the back. Exactly. Because it might not matter. Oh my God. Yeah, I guess it is like it's our age is.

It just affirms what I already knew what I could do.

I said, yeah, exactly right. Trophy's don't matter. That's funny. It's funny because that's basically the gevisser. So like I got I got 60, 60 plus Plax.

None of them hung up. Like they just, you know, I appreciate it, but it's more as more of just just it's like a personal thing to me. Like you did it, Eucumbene. That's all I need.

So if that's not the stuff that motivates you, what does motivate you, man? Life, man.

Yeah, but life is like now before having my daughter, bro, like everything I was so selfish about, like partying. I was doing my thing, but I'm looking for 100.

I'm doing all right. But it's like now like it's more of a purpose. Like I want to really leave behind a legacy, you know, I want to I want to leave my daughter empire that, you know, she could raise her family off of. I want to teach her values of things that I didn't have coming into the game. So it's just again, that's why I'm so heavy on just trying to be the best me, because now I got somebody that's really I'm really influenced on a different level that, you know, I have no choice but to succeed in all aspects of my life, to make sure that she can live with the best way possible and has a good head on her shoulder.

What are you doing in watching right right now?

And you doing that like, you know, before we let you get out of here, you definitely making that legacy. You you a legend in the flesh. You know, your reputation precedes you, so you've earned it. So I just wanted to let you know that. Well, we got you here.

I know. I got I know. I got out. I think I had Katie. I caught my boy. What next time I see you, I got to get a one of my snapper ankle poppin Achilles my knee.

But how we got it, we got to get that. What I want, my boy. Yo, yo, everybody who chose me, man, I tell them the gym is always open, man.

I'm just like you in a studio.

A gym is always open, that's all. I just need to be a fly. I just need to be a fly on the wall, man. See that greatness bro.

I so you know, you've had a storied career already. You still are young. Do I know you feel like a o'haire. But we are still young dudes would over the last ten years you know. What are you most proud of. What you, what you've done. What you put together man.

It's a lot man. But most proud of me just keeping a level head, you know, like we talked about earlier, it could be easy to kind of just jump off a ledge or just turn into like this should turn into somebody else, you know, but, you know, grateful, grateful that all this turned into, you know, a vessel to be able to spread knowledge, you know, through our workshops and such. So, you know, I'm grateful for the last ten to be able to sponsor the next ten and education.

Before we let you go, can you settle the debate for me? Can you pick between good getting into butterfly? Which one do you think is better?

That's a new man.

I got to ask because I argue about so damn I need to. But I will say let me say before you answer, I just told Kevin this may be like a week ago we were talking. It was me, him in my guy.

My guy came down to barflies grown on me. I used to be like, you know, let's call it Devilly grew on me.

And like, I still got good kid ahead of it. But that shit is amazing. And I finally, like, I finally finally won me over, I would say.

I mean, I'm going to give you the politically correct answer, but this is the honest to God, you're both my favorite. But to separate good kid, because you told the story of all of us. He told the story of all of us in L.A. that couldn't tell that story. You know, that that that album that album was every young nigga in L.A. Daily, like, you know, I'm saying that that was what we went through. So I love it for that and what it did for my life, obviously.

But I like him a butterfly because how it humbled me and it showed me different levels to engineering shit on a technical level, you know, and I respect that album on that level to where, you know, what it taught me taught me patients who taught me how to fuse different live instruments. It taught me it taught me some behind the scenes shit. But, you know, that's my reason for liking about the. Yeah.

And when I say I, like, look better, it's because of what you said. Like, I've been ten of those characters in a in a in an album, you know what I mean? I've been a good kid.

I've been I've known all them people too. So it's like to hear that it's like he always he was he here like it was crazy. It blew my mind in ways which you worked on as well. It was the same thing like with the good kid.

And he was the he was the bad kid, like, you know, like watching album started with like literally him getting jumped in to say, like, yo, this is about to be like. Right. It's his painting, his painting, that picture like, you know, and that's why I like him, a writer, writers, one of the greats, you know, he could paint that picture sonically. And that's hard to do, you know.

Well, look, man, we appreciate your time. You know, it only felt right to get you. When Kevin and I first started talking about doing this, we said, yeah, we want to talk to artisanship, you know, because him and I ended up talking about music so much. But it's like, let's talk to some producer, let's talk to some engineers because Jossi music differently. Jazzy see music in a whole different way.

We described it as talking to nerds who wanted to hear you nerd out.

And it's and it's not that you guys are doing this because again, you guys you guys know, my mission again is to advance not just the quality of audio, but given us this platform to be able to chop it up on a different. I would never be to tap into Kevin's fan base, you know, talking my nerdy shit. So it's like, you know, I say this is a Zadow initiative to keep pushing for what we are doing.

So I want to say I'm completely grateful for you guys. And I mean, just keep pushing for it.

So I appreciate your brother. Yeah. We appreciate you being here, man. We're looking forward to all the secret stuff you're working on, all the stuff you told us about, you know, and you sent me some tracks, too.

Yeah. Come on. I got you. I got a shot to rise from a rise from the smoking section to managing to get the front door. That's really the first ever interview.

I was like 17 years old. And with the Austin, Texas child shot and even connected to my brother, that's my guy.

I went to that man's wedding. That's my that's my work officer. So appreciate you for doing this, man. Yes, that's a ROSELYNE. Ended up first love. Excited to see what you got going on next. Man, my brother's manager.

The next time I have a blessed day. You two, bro. Yes, sir. My brother. What up, guys, is Kevin Duran from my podcast, Exeter's. We're partnering with Verizon to provide exclusive access to Verizon Rewards Program members for once in a lifetime opportunity to be a part of our podcast. Download the Verizon app on your smartphone to get started and be on the lookout for a super ticket that will grant you access to a must see exclusive live taping of my podcast.

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