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All right. My guest today is a sleep doctor and I said at the beginning of this podcast is a fucking good one doesn't this one. I knew about the importance of sleep. I knew it was huge, but I know way more now and I'm stunned. I mean, this is a this is a I'm going to shut the fuk up and introduce our gas. Dr. Matthew Walker.

The Joe Rogan Experience.

Timber Lodge.

Garment did you sleep well last night? I did I didn't sleep too badly. I mean hotels are a tough thing the science that one half of your brain will actually not sleep as deeply than the other when you're sleeping in unusual room like a hotel room. That's what fucks me up three different hotels in a week cuz I'll do like a Thursday Friday Saturday like with jigs and then by the time Sunday rolls around I'm a mess in rough shape. Is that what it is? And it's a threat detection thing.

I mean, if you look at other species they can do this much more impressively than we can so do fins or any sort of sea-dwelling mammal can actually sleep with half a brain. So one half of that brain goes into deep sleep. The other half is wide awake. That's how people the DMV do it those people that work at the Department of Motor Vehicles there there they work half-asleep.

I haven't no do I teasing you I will be listening.

Does my next NIH Grant I've been looking at the DMV in sleep. But yeah, we TSA workers. Same thing. Same same type of human that I've come across them to him just kidding fuckers relaxed. So when you're in a hotel room, what is happening that your half your brain is not really sleeping. Yes. It is different stages of sleep. There are two principal types one is non rapid eye movement sleep or non-rem sleep. The other is REM sleep, which is also known as dream sleep Brian and non rapid eye movement sleep is further divided into four separate stages.

I'm with your unimaginatively cold stages one through four where creative bunjes is remember if it is true, but I think it's like you but it's the Deep stages of sleep 3 and 4 of that non rapid eye movement. That's where a lot of student body replenishment takes place bring the cardiovascular system metabolism all of his good things, but that's the deep sleep that one half of you.

Brain will resist going into when you're sleeping in a foreign environment stays in this kind of light to Stage almost like a threat detection system and you can imagine why you know, it's unusual context evolutionarily you would make a lot of sense to just have that sort of on God one half of the brain that makes so much sense and that that really for me fills in the blanks of like why even if I get enough 7 8 hours sleep on the road. I'm still kind of just out of it.

Yeah, and that's in fact probably one of the I think the most impressive parts of new research on sleep. Not just about quantity is also about quality. I quality can be as detrimental if you don't get it as a reduction in Total Quality any both are essential but I think it's exactly is your point. You just don't feel like it's a refreshing to the deep sleep yet feel totally different. It just feels like I guess I would say it feels like half-asleep you have any sense really.

Does feel one of the things I've noticed I did this thing with my friends called sober October. Why are we smoking pot? Or do we need no drinking at all. Nothing for 4 a month. And when I did it once things I found this an after about I don't know how many days but it was noticeable that I would have these incredibly vivid dreams and then I had read that marijuana does something to suppress heavy REM sleep like what what it what is happening there? Yes to both of those chemicals.

Both of which are used as a sleep aid alcohol and marijuana are actually very good at blocking your dream sleep your rapid eye movement sleep and see what happens is that the brain is quite clever in this regard it builds up a clock counter of how much dream sleep you should have had but if not being guesting and it starts to develop this increasing appetite and hunger for dream sleep. So that finally when the alcohol actually gets out of fuel.

Sober October that's all the sudden way. You get with a REM sleep rebound effect where you not only get the normal amount of REM sleep that you would normally have you get that plus the brain try to get back some of that dream sleep but it's been losing over the past maybe 11 and 11 months. See you get this right when you say what is really intense dream sleep situations. Like I had a bit too much to drink last night. Maybe it was a Friday or Saturday.

They sleep in late May 2nd of these crazy dream what happens there is a kind of a cute version where the alcohol is swelling around in your system and after about six hours you live when your kidneys are finally excreted all of the alcohol and you'll bring that being deprived to dream sleep for that first 6 hours. So then feast in the last.

Couple of hours and that's why you have these really bizarre dreams after you've been drinking a little bit too much. Wow. So what is happening with marijuana though specifically, do you know marijuana? It it does help people will help it it puts people to sleep quicker. Although I think that the question is whether it's really not supposed to sleep on out that they going to send you with alcohol. It's not that nightcap idea is is a misnomer alcohol will actually it will it's a form of drugs that we cope with sedatives and sedation is not sleep three different but we have to take one for the other marijuana it seem to act in a physiologically for a different way.

It doesn't talk at the same receptors in the brain. So it's unclear with at this speed with what you fall asleep. I'm having sex with marijuana Alexi natural sleep. Let's assume it is the problem. However is that Ethan will start to disrupt REM sleep it will start to block the process. We think.

Taps at the level of the brainstem witches were these two types of sleep non RAM and REM sleep will actually gets out of work that out. That's where marijuana may actually impact dream sleep and shut it down and block it have there been any studies on chronic marijuana smokers like those dawn to dusk type characters that just are constantly high like and what happens to their brain from not because they must never hit REM sleep. Yes. I haven't looked at marijuana. They have looked at alcohol though.

Exactly. That's what happens. If you look at alcoholics, they will have something often when they come off alcohol to make cool delirium tremens, which is what so DT their what happens is that the alcoholism blocking dream sleep for so long and the pressure of a dream sleep is built up so powerfully in the brain, it actually just spills over into wakefulness. And so the brain just said look, okay, if I'm not going to get this dream sleep whilst years.

Sleep I'm just going to take it whilst you're awake until you start to essentially dream while you're awake at this sort of collision of two states of Consciousness. So you get delirium. I wish that the details were detoxing I do when someone says someone's going to know he was so it's delirium tremors yet. So what like what is going on with them when this is happening? So if they are going through this delirium during the day while they're conscious what what's physiologically happening? So it's almost as though the veil of REM sleep gets pulled over the waking brain as it was to have this mix States Of Consciousness, but you can pick up with brain weigh for coatings.

He just tells me I mean I in some ways how necessary sleep must be in that's the lengths that the brain will go to to get that which it's being missing, you know, just shows you why you know, it took Mother Nature's 3.6 million years to put this thing called and he's our sleep necessity in place and we've come along and within the space of a hundred years. We've lucked up almost 20% of that if you look at the days that I really need somebody people take pride in that too.

I don't need it. I was sleep. I got three. I'm good ready to go kick ass and dominate the world have visited like sleep machismo attitude. There's a lot of that right? Yeah, it's not me baby. I like sleep but you'd be glad to know that the men who sleep 5 to 6 hours a night. We'll have a level of testosterone which is that of someone 10 years that Xenia to a lack of sleep will age you buy a decade in terms of aspect of Wellness virility.

Full strength. Wow, we had a woman on the podcast name is Courtney dauwalter and cheese is a ultramarathon runner and she ran. She's a real freak. I mean like an incredible athletes. She ran this thing called the Moab 240. It's 238 miles through the the Moab mountains and she did it 22 miles faster than the second-place man. So she wanted by a whopping. I think it was 10 hours 10 hours ahead of the second-place winner and she slept one minute one minute the entire time she tried to lie to us or three days.

I think it took her less than three days. They took her like 2 days.

She slept for 1 minute there in the entire time, but she tried to lie down. She she said she laid down for a few minutes, but you couldn't fall asleep and then she wound up actually just taking 1 minute and going to sleep and she said that one minute was like one of the most intense restful minutes after that minute is over. She was woken up. She told her partner running partner to wake her up in a minute and she's like, how long do you let me sleep like one minute.

She's like why I feel great. Let's go but she was saying that she hallucinates and that she starts seeing like rabbits are talking to her and she sees things that aren't there in like mystical beings and stuff. She said it's really freaky, but she knows that she's hallucinating because she's done this. She's done a bunch of an ultramarathon. So she just keeps going just keeps going. She's like saying hi to Ramis there talking to her and stuff. You see these reports to I mean, this is a race of cycling race things bike Across America.

Just got to go from east coast to West Coast in a short a time as possible in the.

Exactly what they do to it's all about managing how little sleep that you get and they will explain. These wild hallucinogenic experiences on the bike. If you look at world records for people who have tried to set up go without sleep. I'm one of the most famous examples is a radio disc jockey cool. Peter trip back in the is back in the city of 60s 50s 60s and he tried to break the world record what he went 8 days straight and yeah and you have a scientific I just said look, this is pretty bad idea based on what we know.

Please don't do it and he said I'm going to do it. Anyway besides just being a good scientist. They said great you mind if we study you could have a great paper to Serafina to rise up and they tracked him and by day three he was having florid delusions and hallucinations who is seeing spiders in the shoes. He became desperately paranoid such to think that people are trying to Pollo.

In his food one point with the middle of winter some guys came in with Sophie's baby New York winter time came with his big jackets. He thought it was the Secret Service coming to get him and he ran out into the road in a strange. But so we know that that same profile if just starting to become, you know, psychotic Witch is Which and see what happens naturally when you dream that you are I mean all of us here in a function slept last night became flagrantly psychotic when we went into dream sleep because you start to see things which are not the so you hallucinate you believe things that could possibly be true to your delusional you get confused about time place in person.

So you suffering from disorientation you have wildly fluctuating emotions from a bad psichiatra school being so effectively labile and then so wonderful, we both woke up this morning and we forgot most if not all of that dream extra to a suffering from Amnesia. What is happening when you.

Having these hallucinogenic experiences like what are the chemicals that are causing it? Do we know the day we let them fall asleep. And then we see what happens within the brain which parts of the brain is switching on which parts of the brain is switching off when you go into REM sleep firstly some parts of your brain become 30% more active than when you're awake. So you know what you think of sleep is this so do you know static passive state where everything just kind of drops down and comes back to the tea light the country.

But what's also interesting is that not all parts of the brain ramp up when you go into REM sleep and visual parts of the brain increase motor parts of the brain increase emotional sense as a memory sent as they will increase but the part of the brain that bucks the trend and goes in the opposite direction is the part of the brain that we pull the prefrontal cortex this set of CEO of the brain that's pretty good at rational logical thinking that parts of part of the brain that shuts off.

So it's almost as though, you know that the prison guards are gone and if we wanted to run them off because there's no controller in place until we knew it from the back of brain activity. Why you become set up so visual you see things why you have Mota kinesthetic activities why things feel it? So emotional. Why things seem utterly illogical and irrational your frontal brain thing that makes its most human you can say goodbye to that for the rest of dreams sleep. So there's no driver to this.

Driver. Yeah. Now why do we forget? Why do we forget those dreams? Because I I wake up and I am sure that I'm going to remember these dreams and sometimes I do sometimes I remember and I don't think I really remember that. I think what it is is very much like you ever hear someone talk about a memory from a long time ago. I used to think that people actually remembered things from a long time ago. But now what I think is Dave remember remembering it, I think they remember talking about it.

They remember how they described it and then they sort of remember that and repeat it and in their mind convince themselves that that's what happened because I've heard people tell stories about the past and there they vary wildly from what is absolutely true like like factual you could check it. You can research it, you know what the facts are but then their mind it's very different and I think that it's entirely possible that Whoopi.

Are doing is remembering the recollection of these memories and how they told them and then also serve people elaborate things make themselves look better or make the situation look more dramatic, but with dreams that doesn't make any sense. So I was so I'm always trying to figure out like what is it about a dream where sometimes I can remember the dream and sometimes it's so vivid when I wake up. I'm like, holy shit that went crazy. What a dream and then I forget it 20 minutes later.

What is that supposed to mean one? Theory of dreaming is that it's just simply a reconstruction when you wake up. So you have these fragments of activity and what your cortex does when it wakes up is what your cortex is designed to do when you're awake normally which is tricep package. Everything can make a good story make logical fit out of the world. That's one Theory. I don't believe that though. You're planted every interesting one. Do I remember my dreams that just.

Sincerely mean I forget my dreams and what I mean by that is accessibility buses availability. So if you haven't had that experience, you've woken up you thought I was definitely dreaming talk like rabbit United and it's gone and then two days later you're in the shower. You said washing yourself? You see a bottle of shampoo. You see the label and it just triggers the unlocking of that dream memory units of comes flooding back what that tells me is that the memory is the it's preserved it's available.

But what happens when most of the time when we wake up is that we lose the IP address to the memory, but it's not consciously accessible available not acceptable. If that's true. What it means is that this type of information we know can have known conscious impact on our behavior all the times Great Brain science about this non-conscious.

Reprocessing it's possible that we stole every one of our dreams. We just don't consciously have accessibility to it. But nevertheless it's changing how we behave how we feel each and every day no evidence for it to Syrian still wanting to test but that's possible too. And it's only that anecdote where I can think I just don't remember the dream. I forgotten it. I don't think that may be true. It may still be there. I just need to find the keys to exit of excess that memory what's coming to me is how quickly the dream evaporates the memory the train in relation to an actual experience.

Like if we went outside and we saw some lady walk up to some guy and kick him in the balls movie like what we would remember that and that you need to be able to tell your friends. Like you have some lady just randomly walked us some guy and kicked in the balls like weird remember that and you would remember it 10 minutes later good member in an hour. You've never dies next day.

Just walk right up to him. I remember it like it was yesterday cuz it was right but a dream give me 10 minutes ago and you wake up in twos. It was the King Kong and he was he was swinging for my ceiling and somehow another leafy fit in the room, but the room got bigger and you do you have these crazy dreams and then 20 minutes later you forget all of it. Like what is happening there? So 1 1 current explanation is that the chemistry of the brain when you go into dream sleep is radically different one of the chemicals called noradrenaline in the brain which downstairs in the body at sista chemical is called adrenaline.

Noradrenaline, actually Plymouth the lowest levels. It's actually it's a stress chemical in the brain of one of them that get shuts off during dream sleep, which is even if you're panicking like what if you fall off a Building Wealth, what's interesting is that that chemical is low wealth's you're having that dream, but when you wake up at from those in some people often wake up, that's when you have the spike of northrend. So it's still low when you're in dream sleep but there's another chemical that goes in the opposite direction School Dasa tile choline is the chemical that is actually a malted and Alzheimer's disease and these two chemicals will change essentially the input output direction of information flow into the memory centers of the brain send that makes sense cuz people take that as a nootropic they do actually in Alpha Brain when when you take that it's this been clinically proven to enhance memory, especially verbal memory and recollection of words and things like that.

That's right. So that's happening.

While you're sleeping. Well shearing REM sleep. Yeah, but what may be happening. Our current model is effusive build these new role models to sort of dreaming. It may be that join dreaming. It's principally about out flow of information to generate dreams. And in fact, the chemical profile is oppositional to input which is about saving so it's about to the pumping out information rather than committing information. And so when you come out of a dream sleep, you still get the set of lingering after to the taste of chemistry is it where in the brain that means that the dreaming brain is more program to be out putting a narrative and experience rather than actually committing it to memory which is the opposite direction if that makes sense that does make sense.

How we are you of dimethyltryptamine. I've somewhat aware of it scientifically not not actually the one of the things about psychedelic experiences with dimethyltryptamine.

First of all, it's endogenous you at your brain produce it your lungs your liver produce it but when you have a DMT experience after it's over the memory Fades very rapidly and it seems just like a dream in that regard wear while you while you're having it with such bizarre is if you're having it while you're awake and then after you have it within 10-20 minutes, it is just like a dream that you can't remember if I remember like little flashes of experiences that I've had and there's been a lot of speculation that that's one of the things that you were experiencing while you're in heavy REM sleep and that could be responsible for the crazy visuals that you have that seems so vivid mean there.

There's been times where I've had dreams where I was a hundred percent convinced that I was awake and then something happened like I do this thing sometimes where I'll end if I do it consciously a lot. I think I saw him on those wacky movies, like what the bleep do we know?.

I think it's not in that way you walk up to a door as you walk through the door. You knock on the side of the door and go am I wake? Nope not awake or am I asleep rather? Yeah, cuz I'm not going to do it but I did that in my hands are like going right through the wall and I went. Oh, I'm sleeping and then I woke up and I was like, but the feeling that I had while I was in that dream will it was so vivid?

I mean everything seems so real like what could possibly be causing me to construct this artificial reality in my mind that at the moment least was indistinguishable from the realities Xperience right now, and I'm assuming cuz I just knocked on the table that I'm awake. Yeah. I really hope I'm not just effective character in your dreams. Maybe we're sharing a drink yet very Inception like at a possible not based on the side so far, but I think you know what you're.

Thinking about Verity is almost why would why would Mother Nature create this thing called The Dream experience you don't do that would be the function of essentially every night going into what sums up to be about 2 total hours of virtual reality experience in testing one possibility, which is deeply unsatisfying is that it's just a by-product epiphenomenal that when your brain goes into this thing called REM sleep and all of the different patterns of brain activity that we described an offshoot is this thing that we call dreaming in the same way that a lightbulb the reason that we construct the operator stats a light bulb is produced light, but when you produce light in that way you will co-produce heat was never the function of the light bulb.

It's just what happens when you produce light in that way maybe dreaming is just to the big heat of REM sleep and REM sleep sets off to other functions, but wow doesn't feel to me.

Right though. Why was supposed to be I think it's probably additionally metabolically demanding to have dreams in addition to this thing called REM sleep and whenever Mother Nature buns calories, it's usually for a reason because that's so precious. That's good for that make sense to you know, I read some article about the lack of REM sleep with marijuana users and it was trying to say and it made me super skeptical even as a pot smoker that it was trying to say that it's not bad for you because what's essentially doing is bypassing the REM sleep and going directly into the deep sleep and it's helping you in that regard.

Does that make sense to you doesn't make sense as a neuroscientist you fucking Stone so deeply unpopular alcohol.

Likable, but I don't think you're saying anything wrong. I think I think marijuana like most things is best used in moderation. And one thing that I got out of the sober October thing wasn't just that it's fascinating to see the dreams like just ramped up and get crazy. But also that when you take a few days off and then smoke a little pot The Parsley has more of an impact. In fact, one of my favorite psychedelic authors and lectures the late great Terence McKenna. His advice was to not do marijuana for long periods of time and then do as much as you could stand and he was a you know, a real psychedelic Adventure in his thought was to really get the benefit of marijuana.

It's not something that should be used daily and Rec relate recreationally. It should be used as a psychedelic Sacrament not should because he actually did smoke pot pretty really pretty regular rather.

But his thought was you really want to get the full impact of it. You shouldn't be accustomed to it. And when you're accustomed to it you build up a tolerance to it. It doesn't have the same impact. Like it's that thing. I don't know if you've ever been around pot smokers, but when someone doesn't smoke pot and then they get talked into smoking pot with some pot smokers. It's always a terrible idea cuz he got a bunch of people super high tolerance and some poor person that doesn't have any tolerance and they just they just get taken down of tornado Rabbit Hole journey into their choice other than 60 days was going to take you about everything freaking out all these Sensations or they just never experienced before but the idea that you could bypass REM sleep and go straight into the deep sleep that doesn't make any sense to you know, it doesn't end what we've learned over the past of 30 or 40 years is all stages of sleep are important and it when you think about.

Sleep as a state. It makes no sense for us the You're vulnerable to predation. You're not finding food. You're not finding a mate. You're not reproducing you not caring for young on any one of those grounds sleep should feed strongly selected against as a collective. I mean it it's it's almost idiotic if sleep does not seven absolutely vital function. It is the biggest mistake that the evolutionary process have a maid and that counts for all of the stages of sleep too. I got Mother Nature wouldn't waste time putting you into a state that wasn't necessary.

But we've discovered is that all of those different stages of sleep that we spoke about all have unique and separate functions. So you can't shortchange any one of them. You don't need to buy a stew with 1 + transitive, you know placate the other, you know, evolutionist is taking a long time to get the blueprint accurately correct each for the electrical individual.

I wouldn't play around with it. And are you smarter than that process? I felt like it was a justification for smoking a lot of pot lights man. You just kidding tea for sleep, man. You don't need a trim sleeve. You're passing it up, man. You just go right into the deep heavy necessary sleep by no contraire potheads. So what is happening to the body during REM sleep? That's so critical that one particular aspect of sleep. So fussed lead in the Buddy the your cardiovascular system seems to do something quite strange.

It goes through periods of dramatic acceleration and then traumatic deceleration during during REM sleep quite unpredictable to we also know that during REM sleep your brain paralyzes your body so that your mind can dream safely. So how makes a lot of sense if you are thinking that you already know this.

Well Champion mixed martial arts person and it's in the middle of the night. You're not it's dark. You can't see you're not receiving or outside. Will you guys get popped out of the gene pool very quickly if you start acting out that experience, so there is a barrier in place that mother nature walks you down in incarceration muscling Hustler conservation. That's crazy that you say that because when I was fighting when I was young, I would wake up throwing kicks. I would kick in the middle of the night.

I would do it all the time. I'd be sleeping and I just thought I would move and throw a kick in the middle of the night and waking me up. Like what the fuck is wrong with me and I try to go back to sleep again, but I was obviously dreaming about competing. Do you actually remember this when you woke up did you remember dreaming at that point or did you just have no recollection of anything going on at that point? I believe I had a recollection.

It's been a long time, but I believe I had a recollection.

I would be like in bed with my girlfriend. I don't wake her up to you know, cuz I just felt like I wouldn't throw a full kick, but my body would move like I was going to you know, I got wood turn my hips and my leg would extend it was my body was it was attributed to the the idea that it's so extreme like the activity of fighting is so extreme that my my brain had kind of like hyper-charged itself to compete at this very high-level, you know, and that this was like so unusual that it was it was almost at Red Alert all the time and maybe even trying to work out patterns while I was sleeping, but an exactly the evidence that we have now, but things like motor skills or even rats running around amazed where they will align specific set of navigational Pathways and even skilled motor movements what you can do as you can place these electrodes into senses of the of the brain wheat.

What can I buy my sleep center works on humans? But other people have done these STDs and rats and you implant electrodes and you measure of the brain cells firing as the rest is running around the Maze and let's see that you consider play Bethel Towing speed brain cell. So they're running around the Maze and and you can listen to the brain cells to learning the signature of that may so it goes up up up up up up up up up up. What was amazing is that when you let those rats sleep but you keep listening to the brain.

What you hear is the brain is actually in fact it is it's replaying the exact same sequence the memory sequence, but it was learning while she was waiting to be playing but at a speed that is 20 times faster.

Take me to get into this Inception welding. I don't mean to get the scientific 883 that went up in that territory. But you know that notion of time compression and time dilation that Christopher Nolan played so well within that movie we can see that at the level of brain cell firing and rats of the letting these mazes and it comes back to what you're saying, which is that the battle at the roughest those skilled memories when you wake them up and test them the next day that predict how much batter they are in terms of that performance.

So it's not just that you learn you go to sleep and you replay and you hit the save button on these new memories you actually scoped out those memories and you improve them and we've been cities with most skill learning critical for athletic performance and practice does not make perfect practice with a night of sleep is what makes perfect because you come back the next day and you'll 20 to 30% better in terms of your skilled.

Coleman's then where you were at the end of your practice session the day before?.

Sleep is the greatest legal performance-enhancing drug that most people are probably neglecting in sport. Wow, not just for your physical performance been actually skill learning. That's right skill learning memory and then also, you know downstairs in the body all over the recuperative benefits. You can flip the coin by the way, if you're guessing 6 hours of sleep or less your time to physical exhaustion drops by up to 30% So you could spend all of your time training for 10 round fight perfect condition, but then I put you on 6 hours of sleep the night before, you know going to be physically exhausted by around 7, rather than around 10, but they have a very difficult time sleeping the night before a big fight.

Yeah. It's very very difficult cuz he was riding you and I would imagine.

It's got to be.

I mean, it's probably take a few told him is probably at a huge benefit if they can somehow or another bypass all that and just relax and learn how to relax and learn how to actually sleep. I mean, I think you know, it's one of constant trying to hack the physiological system, especially in Elite Sports these days in a small fraction to percent of game can make a huge difference of that sounds like 30-40 cute. Yeah, I mean your time to use it if not just physically exhausting but you know what the lactic acid builds up quicker the less and less that you sleep your ability of the lungs to actually expire carbon dioxide and oxygen decreases the less sleep that you have that makes so much sense want because what I was doing I was doing Fear Factor and was going to stand up comedy and then I was also doing another television show and I was doing Jiu-Jitsu.

I never sleep. I mostly got four usually got four and my cardio is sucked so much.

Yeah, it's a huge pot. How many hours of sleep should you get somewhere between nine hours? Once you get below 7 hours of sleep, we can measure objective informants in your brain in your body. I can show that in the last two days and I can shave it show up because I basically do the same workout 2 days in a row the day before I flown back from Boston very tired with my kids all day went to get some sleep, but then I had to do some stuff at like 2 in the morning and I just never really got good sleep and then my youngest daughter got up at 5.

She was crying and then eventually my alarm went off at 8. So my my sleep was like 3-4 hours is all screwy and the night before I was even last cuz I had flown and I had to get up early for the flight and I try to sleep on the plane and I went running and I felt like dogshit and then during the day I felt like dogshit. I just didn't have.

Like as I was running I just didn't have any extra gear of what I did it. I pushed through it, but then it was over like the last night last night. I slept 7 and 1/2 hours woke up today lifted weights ran ran felt great feel great now like 2 days and difference. I mean that's the difference difference is one day. I got real sleep one day. I didn't I did the exact same thing even more today. I did that lifted weights it is well and I feel great so I could see I can see it physiologically in the the difference in my performance in 24 hours and that's notice if I mean, we see that to you know, you're at your Peak muscle strength your physical vertical jump height and your Peak running speed all of those things car like with sleep the less that you have the worst.

Those outcomes are probably one of the most surprising fact is I was entry risk when they looked at athletes across the season and they just plotted you know, how frequently will they get injured?.

Anime surveyed them yet. How much sleep are you guessing? I'm a bucket of them intercept of people who getting 9 hours 70654 and it's a perfect linear relationship the last week that you have hired your injury risk two people getting 9 hours fast is 5 hours was almost a 60% increase in probability of injury risk during the season 2 attribute that to exhaustion due tribute that to a lack of recovery from the previous night's work out. Is it a combination of those things? Is it exhaustion causing you to misstep perhaps and like twisting ankle or turn Annie.

Yeah. It's all of those things. I saw this. I mean even if you look at microbalance, if you look at set of these stability muscles fast, as you know, major muscles those stability muscles also fail when you're not getting sufficient sleep. I think we often underestimate her critical they are in sport performance particularly in terms of combating and play casing injury risk to see if you just get someone on a stability ball, you know.

So just dosed them down with sleep 8 hours 5 hours if 3 hours. I just noticed how those stability muscles help you balance. Just a basic active balance that deteriorates dramatically. When do you getting more injury risk totally makes sense now test what do you attribute when when when people talk about visualization and visualization is it's a huge factor in improving technical skills specifically martial arts, which is a big fan of obviously martial arts. When you you visualize people who visualize who sit down and like go over their body going through the motions and doing things there with those people perform better.

They are formed better. They they they learn quicker. What do you attribute that to do? You think it's the same thing as what's happening when your sleeping just maybe to a lesser extent. I think it's to a lesser extent.

But people have done those studies why they looked at whether you actually physically practice let's hang on a keyboard just cuz it's easier to manage another part 3 bus is just imagining set of typing out that sequence and just the active physical visualization of set of imagination of that motor skill. It's it's about 50% as a effective as physically performing at 2 and its 50% is effective what I mean, there is in changing the plastic connections within the brain even just visualize ation, you know passive play as it was still can actually cause a rewiring of the brain been officially, you know, learning techniques specifically martial arts techniques my good friend Eddie Bravo.

So the world famous jiu-jitsu instructor, he's he's always.

Comparing it to tying a shoe. And he said do you know how like when you were a little kid and you trying to figure out how to tie your shoe it's if extremely difficult thing to do you like how do I do this? And you put that down to do loops like I'm watching my seven-year-old daughter go through that right now, but now as a grown man when I tie my shoe, I could just be talking to you tomorrow and I'll do it. I don't even know what I did if you tried to ask me to explain how I tie my shoe at be like, how do I tell me how I do it?

Because it just I have it in there. I guess it just the idea with martial arts is you've got to be eat all your techniques have to be automatic. Someone extends the arm, you instantly hook it and going to the armbar, you know, someone you have to have these past like so well drilled in that you don't even know you're doing them until it's over. So automaticity is one of the things that sleep actually accomplish as you have told me about those 20 to 30% benefits in Moses.

So we did some additional study is to at least able to sleep do that in a where in your skill performance to speak if you the benefit so you're right tying, a shoelace even driving a car with stick, you know first. It's just overwhelming. It's so difficult clutch. It's gas pedal, you know, it's now it's just second nature shifted from conscious to automatic conscious and unconscious. If you look at performance that is conscious and not automatic. It's usually brace to call to if this then it's that and it's that it's not fluid if you had someone trying to preserve play piano to begin with doesn't sound very fluid, you know, someone who was a my stroke it just flows out of them.

So we looked at this with motorcycle performance against of my keyboard playing music and chip.

You letting you learn you get better and let's see that you type of sequence to take for 1324. I'm people learn it, but they have these problems points throughout the sequence pickup for 13244 1324 as if it's sticking point the same thing with any skilled performance in in athletics, and it's the brain chunking things up. Every Longboat to sequence gets choked up into small set of digestible bites a good way to begin learning but it's not the way to create automaticity at some point. What you have to do is stick Joel of those things together and it just flows like a sentence like a sentence like a piano piece like, you know a sequence of movements if you've got in her in martial arts, you've got you know, what we found was that before sleep.

You've got a big problem points these gaps in your motor skill letting sleep does not necessarily improve the places where you're already good sleep is intelligent. It goes in fines that problem point.

Stop friction point in your motor skill to the deficit and it's smooth it out till you come back the next day. And now it's just for one 32443 to 440 Summit Issa tea and see exactly what you're describing your speak to musicians doce playing I couldn't get that piece the night before and then it came back the next day and I sat down and I could just play sleeps doing it's what I've heard that too with problems and that's why people say sleep on it. Yeah. Yeah, you've never been told to stay awake on a problem about to go to bed.

It's almost overwhelming. You just can't concentrate on anything else but this problem whatever it is and then you go to sleep and you wake up in the morning like it's alright. It's going to be fine. And I got it. I know what to do and sleep sitting down just a lot of anecdotal evidence of sleep Inspire creativity and now the ships to one of the benefits of dreaming. In fact, it's during dream sleeping.

Take all of the information that we previously learned. Let me start to collided with all of the new information that we flood. It's like group therapy for memories, you know, everyone gets a name badge and you will get to speak to each other and the Brain starts to seek out and test novel connections a new associations. So it's only an informational Alchemy and you wake up the next morning with a revised mind Wide Web that is now capable of divining know incredible solutions to previously impenetrable problem.

Lots of anecdotes, you know Dmitri Mendeleev came up with a periodic table of elements by way of dream inspired inside, you know a joke about a Herculean task take all of the elements in the known universe and figure out a structure that how they all fit together off Hugo his waking brain could not do it. His sleeping brain solved the problem. By the way, I'm Stein was suggested to be a short sleeper and we don't know if that's true. But even if he was he was a habitual Neff put during the day.

I've got some great pictures of him on his workbench and he used sleep ruthlessly as a tool for creativity and he would sit at this desk and you have a pad of paper and a pencil and she had a chair with armrests and you would pick up to Steel ball bearings and take a metal Source pain and turn it upside down placed underneath the arm of the chat.

And put the two steeple sealed bearings in his hand that he would rest back and he would start to fall asleep until we didn't fall too far into sleep. What would happen if at some point is muscle tone would relax they would release the steel ball bearings. They would pressure on the source Bend wake him up and then he would write down all of the creative ideas that he's not really my problem every language that I've been quiet about today. I'm French Swahili that phrase sleeping on a problem seems to exist which must mean that this benefit of dreams sleep transcends cultural boundaries.

I should note. I think it's important that the French the French translation is much closer to you sleep with a problem. We the British you say you sleep on a problem the friend. She said you sleep with a problem. I think it's so much about the Romantic difference between the British and the French. She knows will perfect that I won't either things just a joke that's fascinating that Einstein figured that out to that. He literally had like a whole routine that you would drop this ball and hit it bad to wake up and start writing a business room.

I would love to be in the room watching Einstein to that must been fascinating everything the medicine of thief steal everything from Tesla.

Electric. He was the first person to Electrify Society, but he really gave shifts as from a point where now we controlled the night in the middle and what we are a dog deprived Society in this modern era and that's one of the things that is keeping us awake at night. I lack of Darkness. You're not just that but also our inability to see the stars anymore the light pollution that we have at night. I think it's I think it's a giant shift in perspective. Like have you ever been to a planetarium or an observatory?

Like one of those night? There's a CAC observatory in Hawaii is a place I try to go to every year and it's it's really stunning because it's very high up. I think the observatory is it somewhat it somewhere more than 9,000 feet above sea level and then I think you go even further and then they have the telescopes but you got a visitor center and you go to the visitor center.

Telescope setup but it's actually drive through the clouds. So as you're driving up this mountain we were bummed out. Like I was Claudia meant to be able to see anything and then you drive through the clouds and then when you get through the clouds you like holyshit. I'm in you you feel like you're on a spaceship flying through space and this is what our ancestors saw every night when they went to sleep with a clear sky, they saw all the stars. They saw the full Milky Way like this and the way the big island has set up a used diffuse lighting all over the island too because of the Keck Observatory so you don't have the same level of light pollution that you have when you're in a normal City like Los Angeles, which is terrible in La if you look up you feel like one or two stars cuz everything's lit up crazy bright that I think that perspective is it that's a giant factor in the way human beings look their relationship with the universe, but I think that also just a light everywhere at constant light everywhere.

It's got to be a big.

Turn white people sleep. So little we know it is now. I mean these studies of being done. The first part is the external light, which is Hino Street Lighting in a even if you've got cut inspected still bleed through. Yeah, but then when you come into the home, you know, the invasion of light into the home by way of technology has being a big problem female looking at their phones before they go to bed light bulb with said it was the star of David and light bulbs can suppress a hormone that's gold.

Melatonin is the home of darkness and it tells your brain when it's dark and when it's time to sleep, but then you adding to that screen usage and fake densities were free sample, you know, one hour of iPad reading versus just one hour of reading on a book, you know, in dim light that one hour of pipette reading firstly delayed the release of this critical Darkness hormone called melatonin by about three hours. So if you read on your iPad for an hour here in California, your melatonin, PA.

He's not going to arrive at meet somewhere in Hawaii time. If I could 3 hours delayed its 50% Less in terms of its peak and furthermore. You don't get the same amount of REM sleep and when you wake up and next morning, you don't feel is refreshed or restored by asleep though Studies have been done to wow. What should someone do if they have a hard time sleeping and Fiora person? Who is insomnia. You have a hard time getting getting to bed. If we have a hard time staying asleep when you wake up.

You can't go back to bed at their other strategies that most people are five things that you can do just out the gate to get back to sleep regularity is probably the most important thing I can tell you go to bed at the same time. Wake up the same time no matter whether it's the weekend weekday regularity is key. We spoke about light. For example, when you in the last hour before bed try to stay away from screens, but also just switch off half the lights in the house.

Be surprised at how suffer if a cat is it really starts to set up make you feel a bit more drowsy, but then some great stories were they would take people out, you know into the Rockies no, electric light no electricity whatsoever and they started to go to bed two hours earlier than that claimed natural bedtime wasn't just because they didn't have anything this ready to do. It. Was that that melatonin was Rising you have 2 hours Elliott. So keep it dog. The fud is probably keep it cool.

Your brain actually needs to drop its temperature by about two to three degrees Fahrenheit to initiate sleep and that's the reason that you will always find it easier to fall asleep in a room. That's too cold and too hot sexy people use cold pads past those. Yeah, I mean fit the evidence is pretty good that cooling the body actually works there in the book. I write about the series of studies where they had people in it's almost like a wet.

But it has all of these veins running through it and they could actually profuse warm or cold water into any part of the body hands core of the body feet. And so that you could exquisitely manipulate the temperature of any part of the body and what they found is that they could effectively cool the body down and instantaneously make people fall asleep faster and it gave them deeper deep non-rem sleep. That's a restorative sleep for the body. So you can even look at cities where people sleep semi-naked and that also seems to improve their sleep and make it a little bit more deep sleep to soak old is Becca the Paradox here though is that you need to warm your feet and your hands the kind of charm the blood away from your call out to the surface and radiates that heat.

Still have a hot bath evidence here to that. I discuss what people say, you know, I get out of a hot bath. I feel nice and toasty I'm relaxed and that's why I fall asleep. It's the opposite when you get into a bath you get vasodilation used to get rosy cheeks red skin all of the blood rushes to the surface you get out of the bath and you have this mess if thermal dump Pete. Just evacuate from the body fuel core body temperature plummets, and that's why you sleep after so you can hack the system pretty easily see your core body temperature plummets, and that's what makes you sleep easier.

Yeah, that sounds so counterintuitive, but it makes sense and it makes sense because that's how we were designed. If you look at hunter-gatherer tribes whose way of life is not changed thousands of years and you ask how do they sleep one of the things that seems to dictate the sleep is the rise and fall of temperature in temperature is it?.

It's the lowest in the nadir of the night. You have three or four in the morning and ask that temperature that climate temperature starts to drop that's when they start to get drowsy as if the temperature is just so signaling to the rain now, it's time to sleep so light as well as temperature to keep triggers to help you get back to sleep. If you look at those tribes by the way, and when they go to sleep and they wake up, you know, they go to sleep probably two hours after dusk set of 8 to 9 in the evening.

Wake up about half an hour, even an hour before Dawn. It's the rising temperature rather than light that triggers their Awakening but there's a reason, you know, you ever thought about what the 10 midnight actually in the middle of the night, but it should be for all of us, but in modernity weeping dislocated from all natural rhythms, and now midnight has become the time when we think I should check Facebook last time you and I should be here since my last email.

Yeah, that wasn't that is not how we were you designed to sleep. And in fact, we may also be designed to sleep by phasic lie, too. If you look at those fun together as they don't sleep well and long vowels of State hours at night. You see I've heard this recently that people that they should have two sleeps the idea of two sleeps. Yeah. It's actually a little different than the idea of to sleep. So it was a time in an area where people would sleep for the first half of the night maybe sit before I was so so then they would wake up they would socialized they would eat they would real love and then they would go back and have a second sleep.

If you look at natural biological rhythms in the brain and the body that doesn't really seem to be how we were designed. It sent Lee seems to be something that we did in society, but I think it's more of a societal. I'm Trend when it was a biological eat it. However, we do seem to have to sleep. The way that we were designed those tribes.

Often sleep about 6 and 1/2 hours 7 hours of sleep at night and then especially in the summer they'll have that Siesta like behavior in the afternoon and all of us have that. So if this was cool postprandial dip in alertness just means after lunch and if I measure your brain wave activity with electrodes, I can see a drop in your physiological alertness somewhere between 2 to 4 p.m. In the afternoon, but is that depended on diet to not people think it is, you know, especially after they've had a heavy lunch you can actually just have people fast instead of up while fasting for long periods of time that she makes your sleep much worse, but I'm you can shut people abstain from lunch and you still get that drop.

So it's independent food. It's a genetically hardwired pre-program drop that suggest we should be sleeping biphasic. What does is that depended upon their standard diet because if if someone is on a carbohydrate carbohydrate Rich dye it a lot of times you do get that Spike and then you crash crash.

When people are on low-carb and high fat diet, they don't get that and they they they tend to be more even with their energy through the day. Yeah. So yeah, that's it more constant release of energy cannot be helped use of almost combat that low exactly. Even if you don't think it exists there still present. So why did they do that? Why did they what is there a root cause of their double sleep thing? We don't know that they were just wake up and do things and have TV came out of that time.

Now when you're when you're measuring People's Health and when your measuring People's Health in regard to how much sleep they have. Like, how do you how do you do?.

That you just talked to people. Do you do surveys? Like how do you get like a detailed analysis of people's patterns? So you can do it at many different levels that mean we can start at The Groves High Level, which is epidemiological studies across millions of people. Will you do surveys you ask them about the sleep and then you look at Health outcomes the first thing from that day so that's clear is an unfortunate Truth The Surety of sleep the show to your life. Well short sleep predict all-cause mortality, which is really ironic because people that want to sleep last I like, you know, I don't have a whole lot of time if you know this life is short and short if you sleep less yet that the old Maxim, you know, you can sleep when you're dead will be unwise advice because we know from the date that you will be both dead Sunnah and the quality of that now shorter life will be significantly was yeah that's counterintuitive to people that the idea that you need this and it's not just like.

Making best use of time by sleeping less. You're not yet. You'd make best use of time by being awake less exactly, which is crazy. I mean wakefulness first be from a brain perspective is low-level brain damage. We know that wakefulness says, yeah, like right now where you and I are getting low-level brain damage. Yep. That's right. I need to sleep that officer repaired pre-function. Wow. Yeah, I'll give you one example, which is your risk for Alzheimer's disease insufficient sleep across the lifespan of seems to be one of the most significant lifestyle factors determining whether or not you'll develop Alzheimer's what studies or if any have been done on people that work 3rd Shift.

Two people have looked at shift work in general. They haven't necessarily split it down to that granular point. But what we see is that shift workers have higher rates of obesity High rates of diabetes, but perhaps most frightening Lee cancer. And in fact, we now know the link between a lack of sleep and cancer is quite strong insufficient sleep is linked to cancer of the bowel cancer of the prostate cancer of the breast on the association has become so powerful that recently the World Health Organization decided to classify any form of night time shift work as a probable carcinogen.

Oh, yes. Oh jobs that mean juice cancer because of A disruption of your sleep by Chris hems. Are there other quarreling factors, like don't people that sleep less or work into the night. Don't they eat more and eat more shity food, they do both of those things. We know exactly the pathway. So they're off to hormones that control your appetite and you'll wait I want us to.

Letting the other is called growling sound like Hobbits, but they know the reason that tells your brain your full you're satiated. You don't want to lose any more corellian does the opposite it's the hunger hormone. It says you want to eat more. You're not satisfied with your food. If I take people in these studies being done. We've done some of these trees too. And you just put you in a group of healthy people on for 5 hours of sleep. One week and you look at those two hormones make it when I'm fortunately opposite directions to leptin that says you.

Eating that gets pressed by lack of sleep Grill in the Hunger hormone that gets rammed up. So thirsty people he was sleeping just five to six hours a night will on average eat somewhere between 200 to 300 extra calories each day because of the underslept state.

Add that up. It's about 70,000 extra calories a year. It's about 10 to 15 lb of obese Mass each year, which for me is starting to sound familiar. But we also know is that it's not just that when you are under slept you eat more you eat more of the wrong things. So if and this that the great scientific what if you give people a finger buffet and they can eat whatever they want and it contains all of the different food groups and you sleep deprived them.

Will you give him a full 8 hours of sleep? Yes, they start to overeat by somewhere around about 450 calories with total sleep deprivation. But what they go after is heavy-hitting carbohydrates and simple sugars processed food and they stay away from the healthy. So they've leafy greens nuts proteins, excetra of the wrong things and that's why a lack of sleep has such a strong obesogenic profile to it.

And you can take a step back too. And you say well if you look at the rise of obesity of the past 70 years just up with exponential increase and if you place on the same graph, the amount of sleep that Society is getting goes in the opposite direction as sleep time at declined obesity rates have increased. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that the Obesity epidemic is simply asleep problem. If not, it's a problem of us being sedentary processed foods larger food serving sizes.

If you take those factors though by themselves, they cannot explain the increase in obesity other things are at play is sleep. One of them. Now we know it is it's a critical factor in the obesogenic epidemic. I know from personal experience when I'm tired. I always gravitate towards the worst choices for me. It's late night cheeseburgers in a Wendy's at 2 in the morning or whatever what happens if you get naps like say if you only have five hours of sleep, but you.

Take a 2-hour nap during the day does everything makeup?.

Yes, or no. So what you're talking about there is a tweco prophylactic napping which is it have strategically trying to help combat deficiency of sleep give you benefits we've done some of these studies were they improve, you know, you're learning your memory your alertness your concentration, especially your emotional regulation to sleep is critical for emotional first aid mental health UConn. Keep using naps to self medicate. So short sleeve Pocono for a 5 hours each night. We know that the system itself heal, your brain has no capacity to regain all of the sleep but it's lost it will try to sleep back some of that death but we've discovered let's say I take you tonight.

I deprive you of sleep 8 hours lost then I give you all of the recovery sleep, but you want on a second third or fourth night. You will sleep longer, but you will only get back maybe just three or four hours of the.

Lost total eight sleep is not like the bank you can't accumulate to debt and then hope to pay it off at the weekend. And so there was no credit system within the brain for sleepy, Bank it which is odd by the way, I would love that system. You're not then you would know what you're owed. You would know what you wrote. But I said I could also just know when I'm going into a stay so few No Sleep data and I could build up some credit on this president for this.

By the way. There is a system like that in the brain. It's called the fat cell because there were times during our evolutionary past where we faced feminem effaced feast. And so the body learned to adapt to that said when you have Feast store it up is caloric energy in the stinko Aeropostale fat cells and then when you give it to famine you can spend that caloric credit.

Where is that in the brave? Why don't we have that? The reason is very simple human beings are the only species that deliberately deprive themselves of sleep for no apparent reason. In other words Mother Nature has never faced the challenge of coming up with a safety net for lack of sleep. We've never been forced to come up with that Solution. That's why we get such demonstrable disease sickness in apartment when you undergo a lack of sleep. So this is a recent occurrence and in human beings that we're saying is when you go into conditions of starvation, the only way that you can get a species to sleep last night very very difficult to do because sleep is just so essential is when you put them on the conditions of extreme starvation that they will forgo some sleep to stay awake so that they can forage in a larger to the circumference area to try and find more food.

It's probably the reason that when people go into fasting.

Sleep is so terrible because the brain is receiving this ancient trigger that you're going without food during state of starvation. You need to stay awake and hunt for food. That's why you're sleep gets so much worse when you're when you're indicating fasting. I did not know that so fasting is when you're talking about multiple days fasting and not intermittent fasting. We don't have the evidence that intermittent fasting. So, you know, if you are some people doings of 12 hours for me no 16 hours that doesn't seem to be extreme enough to trigger a change in sleep.

But if you fast for these long periods you 2 days 3 days 4 days, you can really see some quite Mark sleep fragmentation sleep if they're going to ask any of those people they'll tell you that's faster than me because people always cite the health benefits of multiple day fast. Do you think that's just like a placebo effect. I mean sent you we know that there are chemical Pathways that when you go into fasting Go activate,.

Change to be beneficial to health outcomes if this big glitch Turanza fasting an aging the end tour pathway for example, but we also know that is a species we would not designed have such terrible fragmented sleep and we spoke about how steep regulates your appetite if you're trying not to eat food instead of control and manage your weight. The last thing that you probably want to do is be shortchanging yourself on sleep because it's only going to make you even more hungry and reach Pacific West food.

So I still think there's room for fasting in the equation but I think those extreme fast, you know, and the Havoc that it plays on sleep. It's still yet to be understood. You got to be very careful with playing around with anything going Beyond sensible in a behavior. So what does it like what is if you say if you're going too fast for 2 days what switch is on that forces your your body into this haphazard sleep program. So that's where that full moon Grayling just kicks into high Creek.

Hormone, that is just saying it's a starvation hormone at that point is not hunger hormone. You've gone over into starvation and that will promote a alertness it promotes chemicals that try to keep you awake chemicals like dopamine to set up new 4C wide awake. So it's forcing you to go hunt or gather strength. And this is even if your body goes into a state of ketosis that we don't know people have not tried to correlate to the few know the profile change in ketosis vs. Alterations in sleep.

I have to think it would be fascinating, you know, maybe there's a week where it's bad. And then you should have you crested and then things get better at unit. Does the body acclimate to that? I don't know. It's we've never seen the body being able to sort of re-engage with, you know, Tyvek function with a dose of sleep deprivation that keeps going. So if I see something done take people and give them two weeks of 7 hours of sleep 5 hours of sleep.

3 hours of sleep or no sleep even by 7 days a week 14 days of six hours of sleep. You'll come to Performance just nosedives like a doll into the ground and it doesn't show any signs of leveling off as if there is no asymptotes that he could keep going by the way people should know that after 20 hours of being awake. You are as impaired cognitive Lee as you would be if you are legally drunk. Why what about physical movement same thing? Yeah me to leave your reaction time, but it's worse and this is what You Know Travis driving comes in for everything seconds that we've been speaking there is being a car accident linked to sleeplessness drowsy driving.

It seems kills more people on the roads than either alcohol or drugs combined. Why are why are drowsy driving accidents? So definitely right now, I'm not endorsing those other things of course not but let's just think about why that's the case.

When you're under slapped you start to have water cooled microsleeps. Sometimes your eyelid does not close all the way. It just partially closes, but the brain essentially goes to sleep for just a brief brief. Of time even see individual brain cells looks like they go to sleep during these rappers names at that moment. If you're traveling in a vehicle on the freeway, you've got a one-time missile traveling at 65 miles an hour and no one is in control of your lucky. Yeah. Yeah, Don Carlos have a Miata.

Yeah. I already got a McLaren P1. If you are they really drink alcohol if it's often the case of a problem of laser reaction with with a lack of sleep. It's a problem of no reaction at all. So you're out of it so you can.

It to rothland Breaking too late does just new Breaking whatsoever for people to if you do find yourself Cole or a tired and driving and you have to stay awake take either ice or ice cold water and put in a washcloth and then rub your face with it keeps you awake. Yeah, it works me. If you're forced to drive. If for whatever reason you have to you know, you have 20 minutes to go in your really exhausted do that has the best take a like a wet cloth put ice inside of it and just rub your face and just wait to read up for whatever reason I need to I mean those the statistics around price drowsy driving though, you know frightening and what's a weird thing when you're on the road.

There's something about those white lion that just want to put you to sleep. There's no other time where I feel more compelled just conk out while I'm away. Yeah, it would probably one of the greatest sedatives come to that meaning of monotonous in a behavior and the longer you go with that monotony of the worst things get you know, and if you look at it.

I'm here teenagers that's where we see some of the greatest impact of shore as he driving. You know, it's the leading cause of death in most of us. Will Nation suicide II that is crazy this model of later school start times. They've done these studies. There was a great one that was done. I think in Teton County in Wyoming they shifted the school start times from 7:35 in the morning to 8:55 in the morning much more by Logic lyrics nipple for teenagers in the extra hour of sleep that there's teenagers reported gassing with the drop in vehicle accidents.

There was a 70% reduction in car crashes the following year when they made that sentence 0% something to to be a revolution. Here's a simple biological factor sleep that will drop accident rates by 70%.

I think if all gold is Educators truly is to educate we spoke about learning and memory and not risk lives in the process. Then we are failing all children in the most spectacular manner with this inspected monthly Philly school start times. Why do we do that? Like what high school times but the early work times to I was driving to the airport to the date 6 a.m. 6 a.m. Bumper-to-bumper traffic on the 405. I think this is insane what these poor Fox? What are we doing? If you are in the car at 6 a.m. That it means that you probably woke up in a 05 average school start times, you know in the US some of them, you know, 77205 buses for school start time of 7:25 will begin leaving at 5:30 in the morning.

That means that some kids are having to wake up at 5:15 5 maybe even earlier. That's what I really want to see. Why do they do that? I mean, it's just a pattern that they've always done and they don't they never corrected it again. It's a pain that act.

He has has changed over the past 30 or 40 years. I mean American schools used to go to meet to start around 9 and it started to shift ever and ever Elia why I'm part of it is because of work times that parents had to get to work at ever earlier schools. They comply to that same time frame as well and it becomes very difficult in a high school systems all the bus unions, you know, it's an incredibly difficult Logistics problem, but I have to think that you know, what is a goal goal is to keep our kids safe and to get them well education get information to the brain and nuts them, you know create them to be the next generation.

Early school start times in a on not the thing to do. There's a lot of lazy kids out there. They're going. Yes, I preach on Doctor preach. I need the dates and make things to either one of these another example comes from Edina in Minnesota and they shifted school start times from I think it was at 7:25 to 8:30 in the morning and they look at SAT scores and in the year before they made the time change the top 10% performing students got an average SAT score of 1288, which is a great School.

The following year and they were going to school now at 8:30 rotten 725. The average SAT score was 1,500. That's a 212 points increase which is non-trivial. Wow. That's gigantic. I just I think it's the school time in correlation with the work time very difficult to get people off of that. That's part of what you know modernity has done well working longer hours and also work commuting for long durations of time. So that's what people having to wake up early at they come home Lisa on the one thing that gets squeezed to the vice grips is this thing called sleep, you know on the decimation of sleep throughout industrialized nations the consequences having a catastrophic impact on our health and our wellness and the safety in the education of our children.

Light up Sleepless epidemic. Wow.

Now other than making the room cold and warming up your hands and your feet and things almost wants what about diet? Is it the or even time that you eat? Is there a specific time before you go to bed that you should eat? How much time should you give yourself to digest your food is so the general advice right now is don't go to bed too full and don't go to bed too hungry again. If you're going to bed too hungry, you can get that sort of that signal of I'm starting to go into low levels of starvation in that can keep people awake at night.

The evidence in terms of diet composition sleep is quite unclear is not particularly. Well researched area right now. What we do know is that diets that are high in sugar and heavy starchy carbohydrates and low in fiber those diets tend not to be good for sleep you tend to have less deep sleep and you'll sleep is also most fragmented throughout the night. So that's.

Right now the best advice so you should eat several hours before you go to bed, but not five hours. That's right. Yeah, maybe it's different for different people and you will know it. If you said it was talking to wake up with really severe hunger pangs. What about supplements like melatonin supplements are things on one's lines. Melatonin is efficacious. It's useful when you are traveling between time zones do at that point your body clock. Your internal clock is out of sync with the actual real time in the new time zone and let's say I fly from Los Angeles over to London back home.

You know, my melatonin spike is going to be 8 hours in the past, you know, it's back in time not going to arrive with me for 8 hours so I can take some melatonin. I can fool my brain into thinking. Oh my goodness. It's actually dog when despite in California. It's still daylight once I've arrived so you can.

Is melatonin strategically for jet lag once people however are stable in a new time zone.

Melatonin does not seem to be efficacious for helping sleep that said though if people out there take melatonin and they think it helps I would tell him to keep taking it because the placebo effect is the most reliable affecting all of pharmacology. So if it works for you no harm no foul to take me an interesting. So the people that take melatonin nightly like this is what gets me go to bed. Really? They're just playing a trick on her mind yet, unless you an older individual where yours have 24-hour rhythms cut your circadian rhythm.

To get blunted and it's not as strong anymore. That's what night nightly use of melatonin actually has been demonstrated to be efficacious. But if you're young healthy and you're taking melatonin, it's unlikely that it's actually helping asleep. That's probably the placebo really should just be just for traveling weird situations where your sleep is interrupted. That's right. You need to kick it into gear bring it back on.

I can definitely you know, that's one way that you can have Jet Li give me the new cure for jet-lag but there's actually lots of ways that you can hack just like are there any other vitamins or nutrients or particular foods that enhance the Sleepy affect the thing about tryptophan? I really thought the tryptophan was in turkey and yeah what I read was that was bullshit and what was really going on with that you just ate a gigantic meal and it's filled with stuffing and mashed potatoes and all those carbohydrates cause you to his crash and it's usually the time than everyone goes back through into the living room.

You'll just relaxed and what do you think the numbers are sleep-deprived people in this country. So we know those numbers actually almost one out of every two adults in America and not getting the recommended 8 hours of sleep.

Almost one out of every three people that you pass on the sleep on the street of trying to survive on 6 oz of last of sleep. I'm back in 1942 Gallup to the pole and what they found was that the average American adult was sleeping 7.9 hours of sleep a night. Now that number the most recent he is down to 6 hours and 31 minutes for the average adult during the week in America. That's the average by the way. That means that there's a huge swath of people well below that beverage and what about the people did say that they sleep they go to bed.

They were they sleep 5 hours they wake up. They feel great that bullshit. We have the number of people who can survive on 6 hours of sleep will last without showing any empowerment rounded to a whole number and expressed as a percent of the population is 0.

Wow, wow. 0.

And one of the big problems with the lack of sleep, by the way is that you don't know you are sleep-deprived when you're sleep deprived. So you'll subjective sense of how well you're doing with the lack of sleep is a miserable predictor of objects. Rather. Do you find stripe subject-object? If he trust me, you're not the same way with sleep deprivation, that's fast manic. So but you're not drunk. So even though you're impaired you don't feel like you're impaired just and you probably have a couple of spressos or one of the caveman coffee.

She feel fine, right you get used up you ready to go and you're trying to accomplish things you're trying to succeed right? You're trying to get ahead in this life. I need to sleep and it's and that's completely counterintuitive, but we know that people are more productive.

Listen to me study in the workplace while you look at the first lie. Underslept employees will take on fuel work challenges overall. They end up taking the the simple ones like listening to voice messages rather than actually digging into deep project book. They produce fewer Creative Solutions to challenges that you give them. They also slack off when they're working in group called social loafing where they just ride the coattails of other people's hard work that you have the more willing that you just serve don't pull your weight furthermore.

It goes all the way up to the top. So the more or less sleep at a business leader has had from one night to the next the more or less charismatic that employees will rate that business leader despite them knowing nothing about the sleep of that see it's evident in the behavior will because they're short with the another of those short their temper or they're there quicker to get upset about things are less charismatic and.

Social with the conversations. I just want to go go to work and it's why do we should have overvalue employees that undervalue sleep? And if you look at your work force, you know, trust me everyone's going to be looking busy but it's like stationary bikes. Everyone's looking like they're working hard but there's no forward progress the scenery never changes. That's what a nun to slept. What force will be for you. Now, what about the amount of time that people spend at work? I mean, I know this is not related to to sleep, but I've always felt people work too much cuz I feel like you probably can get more done with less time.

They are you so efficiency is what we're told me. That's another one of those things would sleep deprivation. And I think many people when they haven't had a good night's sleep, but you know, they're looking at this report and I realized I just read this paragraph of the time and I still.

Is your head scrambled efficiency, you know productivity, but I would feel like when people working 8 hours a day. I don't think that you can work at Peak capacity for 8 hours. At least. I don't think the average person to have you come to saying that I'm so you're kind of bleeding these people you're getting blood out of a rock in the last couple hours and it's either a creative way to work and creativity University of Phoenix business. But why would you you know take twice the amount of time to boil up in a pot of water on hot feet when you could do it in half the time if you just put it on high to sleep, you know, it's interesting though.

There are certain writers who use sleep deprivation as a strategy for creativity. They literally don't start like the writer's for the sitcom has on Newsradio. They wouldn't start riding till like 2:30 in the morning. They were just play video games and fuck around and then late at night. They would really start.

And it would ride till like 7 in the morning. They would be they would stumble into the set like Barefoot. Delirious hair all fucked up with hilarious grips. And it's like they had used being silly and overtired as a strategy almost like they are doing drugs, right? They weren't doing any drugs. I mean it comes back there Twilight. We did it. We don't know in that scenario has me to sleep. But what we have found at least in in all scientific studies is that that prefrontal cortex region that we spoke about before that set of rational logical part of the brain.

That's one of the first things to go when you're sleep deprived so that area of the brain just gets to the switch off. The more that you are should have lacking in your sleep and emotional deep emotional centers of the brain which are normally controlled and kept in check by that prefrontal cortex. They just erupt in terms of their activity. So you all emotional gas pedal into little regulatory control brake switch for the most part very bad.

But in a one possibility is that if you want to try and get a little bit so that you know.

Crazy loosey-goosey. Maybe that's not bad. But that type of set of comedic writing that you you know, you become a bit more childlike and say that affectionately because the last part of the brain to mature in development is the prefrontal cortex. Do you refer back to almost there more childlike state, but I wouldn't I honestly would not condone that sit if you know undergoing sleep just based on the mortality, you know that risk of Alzheimer's and cancer by itself. You just don't want on the sleep even in short doses looking couple days a week.

Like if sleep is not a renewable resource. Like what is the effect of say if you have three nights a week where you sleep 8 hours and then the next night 2 hours.

And then the next night 8 hours how much of a bump or how much of a dip does that 2 hours give you and your overall health? It's bad. It's bad. I'll give you two examples that there is a city where they just took individuals and they just gave him 4 hours of sleep for one night and what they saw it was a 70% reduction in critical NC come to fighting immune cells called natural killer cells these off wonderful immune assassins that Target malignant cells to today both you and I have produced cancer cells in our body what prevents them from becoming the disease that we cool counts.

It is important these natural killer cells and after one nice at 4 hours of sleep, but that is a remarkable state of immune deficiency. And that's one of the reasons why insufficient Sleep Products cancer. I can also speak about your cardiovascular system though and all it takes is one hour because there was a global experiment that's performed on 1.6 billion.

Full across 70 countries twice a year and it's cool daylight savings time. Now in the spring when we lose an hour of sleep. We see a subsequent 24% increase in heart attacks. What in the fall in the ottoman we gain an hour of sleep does a 21% decrease in heart attacks by directional that's how fragile and vulnerable your body is to even just the smallest passivation of sleep an hour when our eyes closed.

That is you're blowing my fucking mind. It's Friday. You can go even further by the way. I know how insufficient sleep even wrote The Very fabric of biological life itself your DNA code. So in one study, they took a group of healthy adults and they limited them to six hours of sleep for one week and they compared the profile of gene activity relative when those same people will getting 8 hours of sleep and there were two critical results. The first was that a sizable 711 jeans with distorted in their activity caused by one week of 6 hours of sleep.

Which is highly relevant, by the way, because we know that many people are trying to survive on 6 hours of sleep during the week. Wow, II interesting result was that about half of those jeans were actually increase in their activity. The other half were actually suppress those jeans that was switched off by 6 hours of sleep 1 week what genes related to your immune response many of them. So you become immune deficiency those jeans that with increased what we called overexpressed which means that we related to the promotion of chumas jeans that were related to long-term chronic inflammation within the body and jeans that were associated with stress and as a consequence cardiovascular disease, this is unbelievable.

You know, it's really disturbing to me in my youth from age. Probably a guest house price 18 when I started I delivered newspapers.

Drive around and throw newspapers out of my car and I did it for years and I would have to be up at 5 every morning and I never never went to bed early ever and I were 365 days a year and I started when I was 18. I might have been 17 whenever I started driving while I drove it's 16, but I don't think I started right away delivering newspapers, but I was trying to find a good part time job. I think I was like either in my senior year of high school or after I think right after my senior year of high school.

So probably 18 OK and the reason I asked by the way is because I should go through into their stuff later stages of adolescence in cifelli adulthood. You'll biological Rhythm moves forward in time. Do you want to go to bed late room wake up later. If you went to bed so conscientiously at that time at the taste like 10 online you wouldn't be able to sleep because it's biologically impossible. No, I didn't sleep and then on Saturday even worse one-day-a-week sat.

Good night. I'd have to get up at 3 or 4 in the morning because I had to deliver Sunday papers in the Sunday papers were enormous. And so I had to pack a van filled with Psy 350 people that deliver papers to sign to do multiple trips side start work at I start delivering somewhere around 4:35 depending on when the papers got in and I was done by like 9, you know, 9:30 not try to crash but I was over Wreck-It. Fuck me up for years for years.

I did that and I'd stop and think about that now listening to you will see this conversation with what kind of fucking damage that I do to myself over those years and I will tell you about the stuff without Simas and it all the way protein him feel. Okay. Now it's been it's been several decades did I mention that your subjective sense of how well you doing with insufficient? Sleep isn't known as I'm sure you did and I'm sure there's a fact of their what stunning to me.

Is that 6 hours is so detrimental.

I would have thought that I've been fine to 6 hours is good. I can get six hours as good that's normal for me. 6 hours is normal like you literally the minimum 77297 you need for the fraction of 1% of the population that has a special Gene that allows them to survive on about 5 hours of sleep and most people when I tell him this is why you being so much more likely for example to be struck by lightning in your lifetime the odds of which I think about 1in 12,500 than you ought to have this incredibly rare Gene.

That means you can survive on something around five hours sleep really know. What is the gene? Well, it's a gene that seems to promote set of again wakefulness chemistry within the brain that allows you to sort of maintain.

Anamosa Steinway and so only trying to understand right now what the actual biochemical mechanisms are in terms of the consequence of that Gene that gene mutation, but sadly it seems to exist that there are some of those quote-unquote short sleepers by the way, you know, we hear of these Business Leaders and even actually heads of state are not going to name any names, but I'll give you right now but I'll give you two examples of the past Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan both what vociferous in the statement in the Declaration of how little sleep that they would give both some said for 5 hours a night and I think in pot it was to paint this heroic Ironclad status.

Well sadly in tragically Thatcher and Reagan both ended up getting Alzheimer's disease, you know, I'm we now know because of its during deep sleep at night that there is a sewage system.

In the brain that kicks into high gear and it cleanses the brain of all of the metabolic toxins that are being built up throughout the day this low-level brain damage one of those toxic sticky proteins that builds the bus were awake is cooled PC Emma Lloyd be to employ just one of the leading causes of underline the mechanism of Alzheimer's disease. So the less sleep that you're having a cross the lifespan the more of that toxic amyloid is building up nice after night year after year. I don't think it's coincidental that both of them ended up progressing into a tragically into a stage of Alzheimer's disease did goodnight sweet clean in that way in terms of of deep sleep.

That is stunning. Are there anything is there anything you can do in terms of how you eat or supplement? You can take that could potentially at least somewhat mitigate the effects of having no sleep.

We haven't found any good countermeasures diet pills. So people have been tried things like ephedrine amphetamine and caffeine has been used to teach ugly by the military for years and caffeine can help you get over the basic reduction in your love is so basic response times. You can you can dose with caffeine and still maintain some degree of a fast response under conditions of sleep deprivation. What about provigil or Nuvigil and acetic acid modafinil like chemical Aaron debated who actually came up with it maybe in the French military who actually ended up being the degenerates of that that seems to work through a pathway at least right now is being descended time for chemical called dopamine dopamine is principally known as pleasure drug.

It's the chemical that a lot of trucks but useful Target to sort of ramp-up but it also is a basic alertness drug that when you go.

An increase in dopamine you tend to actually get an increase in your alertness in your wakefulness. Don't you get an increase in happiness as well. You can to although modafinil tends to come with the alertness component of that equation and less so with the Euphoria that's why it has a lower prevalence of to the addiction and abuse for I know a lot of people who I wouldn't say they're abused it but they say they have to use it like the all the doctor says doctor says I got to use it and I'm always suspicious because they seem pretty normal other than the fact that they are exhausted if they don't take this which was essentially stimulant.

I've taken it a few times. I've taken it when I have to drive like long. Sound like I'm driving from San Diego to California or two y Los Angeles and maybe I have a gig my legs done at like 11:30. I know I'm going to be on the road late at night. I might take one and it's fine. But it it gives you this weird feeling it's a weird State and I know a lot of.

Hack people a lot of Silicon Valley is on the stuff and they pop it like candy so much so that Tim Ferriss when he was writing his book The 4-Hour Body. He didn't want to include it and it won't include this particular drug because you felt like people just going to eat it all the time. I mean, it's right threats you can populations are all one of the interesting things is that if you look at the the profile of what sleep deprivation is cognitively, you know, reduced alertness impulsivity lack of ability to concentrate difficulties with learning and memory difficulties with behavioral problems.

If I were to describe those features to a pediatrician and say what disorder is this property States?.

It's ADHD. But we now know is that there is some portion of children out there who are diagnosed with ADHD. Who either one or just under slept or to actually have sleep-disordered breathing because of perhaps tonsil problems with a not getting sufficient sleep and when you treat the Sleep Disorder when you do is head of in a remove the tonsils, they start sleeping normally and the ADHD disappears. Well, so there is an issue here. I think within that said of the explosion of ADHD notable people, you know privy to this some sleep problems.

Simply masquerading has ADHD, but some people are one of the other problems too though. Is that ADHD kids tend not to sleep very well and what we end up giving them is a drug that is a stimulant which will combat sleep and fight back against sleep. So I think we need to have a bit more of a strategic approaches to when we think about at least the dose of those that medication in times of when sleep should be at.

Is rain expected during the day cuz you know taking it in the middle of the day and the evening and if it's stimulants wake promoting drug is be pretty careful to sleep as part of that. It was terrifying because I don't know if the people that are prescribing these things have the sort of Deal education and sleep in the necessity of it that you do. They don't I didn't you know, it's not that at all. You think that doctor to stop prescribing sleep and don't make a mistake that that's me suggesting, you know prescribing sleeping pills.

That's a separate straight sleeping pills are associated with significantly higher risk of death in cancer in and I'm happy to speak about that to the one chapter in the book that I think the the legal team with my published took a very long long look at but I think Doug just come back to your point. They on average only have about two hours of sleep education in the medical curriculum. So 1/3 1/3 of this podcast has been 2 hours.

Fucking crazy and so that's terrifying and I bet you probably have laid things out better in this podcast and you would get in those two hours of Education. I don't know about that, but I'll give you that a state could increase that, you know, I'm life, but they only get 2 hours of Education in but the other problem is the medical industry Itself by the way, you know that residents that data in Juniata residents working a 13-hour shift off 460 percent more likely to make diagnostic errors in the Intensive Care Unit relative to when they working 16 hours.

If you have elective surgery, you should ask your surgeon how much sleep they had in the past 24 hours if they had 6 hours of sleep will last you have a 170% increase risk of a major surgical error such as should have organ damage or hemorrhaging relative to that same surgeon.

If they should be well-rested and then the irony here, by the way, is that when a resident finishes a 30 hour shift gets back into that cause drive home. There is a 168% increase risk that they will get into a car accident because of the underslept state being ending a back in the same emergency room where they just came from but now is a patient. She's going to Cochrane. We need to radically rethink the importance of sleep in education in in business in the workplace. And in medicine to why do they do that?

It's a fascinating story guy killed William Halsted and he set up the first resident surgical program in the United States at Johns Hopkins University.

And he was known for being able to stay awake for these heroic length of time days on end, which is incredible like superhuman strength turns out that in Lacey is after he died. There was a dirty secret that he was actually a cocaine addict. Son of a bitch and he is what happened. It wasn't his fault and his career. He was examining the anesthetic capacities of cocaine. So, you know, if you may have heard from practically that when you snort cocaine you get the nun face the reason is because it's it blocks nerve.

So I tell you said from colleagues actually never done cocaine out of I've know quite a few people who have an angle have this trip numbness in the reason is because cocaine is also a nerve blocking like lidocaine lidocaine.

Alex the initial doctors to start doing lidocaine Halsted and destruction to program what he expected his residence to match him to go toe-to-toe with him. The story was that he actually knew that there was a problem. He went to Rehabilitation checked in under a different surname and one part of the regiment for him coming off cocaine what to prescribe morphine and at the end of the rehabilitation program, he came out with both of cocaine addiction and heroin addiction that he would get his shirt loaned it in Paris, you know in France and you know, they would come back and it wasn't just a white starch, you know shuts back, but we're in the box that we were up.

White substances to but that's you. Do you ask a great question? Would that come from was that history? The Legacy seems the date back to William Halsted who is an accidental cocaine addict and then we've been maintained that inhumane practice in medicine. So critical to be awake and aware and to be sharp. You're cutting people open your operating on people I think back to what you said to get about being awake, you know, you would never accept treatment from a doctor who started going to looking at your child to stick with an appendicitis at 3 a.m. In the morning who danced week some whiskey and says, yeah, I'm going to do the operation why you would you've got published it?

Well, why do we accept treatment or after 20 hours of being awake you are as important as you would be if you were legally drunk. So unfortunately, we placed young residents in this position of acting and operating and decision-making under conditions of insufficient sleep one.

5 medical residents will make a serious medical error due to insufficient sleep one in 20 medical residents will kill a patient because of fatigue-related era raising it right now, you know, there are well over twenty thousand medical residents at if you have a hundred of them 5 or going to kill people accidental deaths think about that none, but that's insane. If we were to solve the sleepless epidemic in medicine that we could start saving lives and I don't know what it is. Is it just you know an old boys network was the what we went through it.

So you've got to go through it, you know under the lease and now it's so prolific and I write to all about that. I've tried to make a builder and evidence-based, you know, emotionless Cold Case full sleep in medicine a sleep prescription medicine is it what will most people don't realize the requirements of residents have.

Ann and they are they are literally going to be on human capacity thinking that you know hubris and some degree of hours on the job is going to be able to allow you to sit if you could short what took three and a half million years to sit if you no get in place, which is an 8-hour nights of sleep. That's just thick-headed, you know, it's like the medical profession. It may be at the stage where it's My Mind Is Made Up don't confuse me with the facts.

This is blowing me away. I just don't understand how the very people that are working on the health of patients and fixing them and repairing injuries and taking care of diseases. Those are the people that are ignoring one of the primary factors of disease and errors and cognitive function impairment. It's a travesty. I have a friend who is an opthamologist. He tells a story about during his residence.

He was is back in the 80s and had a pager. He was on the toilet with a tray of food on his lap because he didn't have time to eat and go to the bathroom. So is eating food and he fell asleep and then his pager went off. He's like fuckmylife. Do you need tell you that you're in the state? If you want to speak with your trousers around your ankles fast food or hit me up face and yet you're in the deepest stages of non-rem sleep and he's a guy was working on people's eyes crazy.

Yeah, I mean I sleep is equally absent for the patient in the hospital, you know setting we know that somewhere between 50 to 70% of all I see you alarms either unnecessary or ignorable on the one place where you desperately need the Swiss army knife of Health. That is a good night of sleep in the one place where you get at least which is on a hospital would we could we could exit people out of hospital beds Elliott the date was already there for the neonatal Intensive Care Unit.

They used to leave bright lights on 24/7. Right and that would prevent set of the signaling for sleep and wake sleep and waking up Michael is critical if you regularized sleep after a few regularize Ally used in the neonatal Intensive Care Unit those infants ended up having high levels of oxygen saturation that they were sleeping better that weight gain was dramatically increased and the ending of exiting the neonatal Intensive Care Unit 5.

Weeks Alia simple things to do. Why don't we do something like this in medicine? When you come in on to a hospital would you get this on an international flight travel for free ear plugs face mask even just that by itself could help people to stop get back to sleep next on the hospital admission form. Tell me when you normally go to sleep and when you normally wake up and to the best of our ability Williams doctors will try to serve, you know, manage your Healthcare around your natural sleep Tendencies, if we could do that, you know, what sleep is is the elixir of life it is the most widely available Democratic and Powerful Healthcare System.

I could ever possibly imagine. Why don't we leveraging that and taking it that's one of the great facts that medicine could actually, you know, in fact that his stomach.

I was just being received by doctors. Are they reluctant to listen to you or me? What would it what is happening with all this data? And you're you're passionate Cry 4 extra sleep or more sleep for the proper sleep. I should say. It's starting to happen. I mean when the book came out, which is said of The Hobbit came back. I was in back in October and some people started to give push-backs to sort of in the medicine realm, you know, there was some concerns about continuity of care that if you keep switching residents out every 16 hours that you wouldn't have continuous patient care and that was a problem.

There are other medical training systems are for example, France Sweden New Zealand. They do this all the time. They do not allow that residents to undergo anything longer than either of 14 or a 16-hour shift. They train their residents in the same amount of time or less and if you look at the rankings of their medical health systems around the world, they rank far higher than the United.

States so you can't tell me that longer work hours for residents for example on necessary to train the doctors the evidence just didn't support himself had some pushback the but for the most part I think people are receptive. Once they know the information and I think I'm the I find someone who's to blame here. I've known this evidence for you know, I've been doing sleep research now for 2007 years we all with sleep where we were with smoking 50 years ago. We had all of the evidence about the deathly carcinogenic cardiovascular disease issues, but the public could not being a word no one had adequately communicate at the science of you know, smoking to public the same I think is true for sleep right now.

That's part of the motivation for why I wrote the book why I've been doing trying to do a lot of publicity person and I don't like being in the spotlight, but I feel as though there is a mission that whose voice is not be naturally gifted yet.

Wanted to try and help him via the service sleep diplomat mean that's why I choose to handle on social media trying to be there as an ambassador for sleep. And now once people start to understand the science if we've spoken about for 2 hours, then people start to actually realize it's not the third pillar of good health alongside diet and exercise to the foundation on which those two other things said in a free sample that if your dieting but you're not getting sufficient sleep 70% of all the weight that you lose will come from a lean body mass muscle and not fat your body becomes stingy in giving up its fat.

When is under sweat suit. Once you get this information out. The things are starting to change. I've started to have some discussions with the World Health Organization. They seem to be very interested now in in guessing guessing to go to sleep. I'd love to speak to First World governments though. When was the last time you saw any first world nation have a government-supported public health campaign around sleep.

I don't know any we've had them for you know, drink-driving for risky behaviors, you know for drugs or alcohol for healthy eating sleep should be a part of that equation and I want to the lobby governments to start to instigate this and it will save them millions of dollars the Rand Corporation did an independent survey 2 years ago on the demonstrable cost of a lack of sleep to Global economies. What they found was that a lack of sleep cost most Nations about 2% of the GDP the gross domestic product here in America.

That number was 411 billion dollars caused by insufficient sleep solve the sleepless epidemic, you could almost double the budget for Education. You could almost half the deficit for healthcare.

Wow, what studies Afeni have been done on people who live in the Northern Hemisphere for the experience these long days like Alaska and Siberia place like that. It's really tough for the regulation of the Circadian rhythm and what they eat a lot of people they not old but a lot of people will suffer from what school seasonal affective disorder which is the winter Blues Fortune acronym s a d stop to comes along you say look I'm not feeling good is the winter time while you're sad, you know, I know I know.

I'm sorry. It's in medical school sadd seasonal seasonal affective disorder that dates are is is quite powerful too and you end up having to use melatonin strategically to help you fall asleep to set up a signal darkness in the summertime when it's really like almost all day. And then in the winter time you reverse engineer the trick and in the morning, you said you have your breakfast or you working at your terminal and you have one of these.

Light boxes that sits next to you strong looks power light to try and fool your brain into thinking that you're getting a lot of daylight when it's in it's not going to be like for the next 4 hours so they have to undergo treatment. Do they have to do vitamin D supplementation as well some of that too. Yeah because of lack of exposure for the skin to UV light. Listen, man. You just open up a lot of people's minds you certainly did mind eat me. This this podcast blew me away.

I thought I knew a little bit about sleep. I knew nothing. Thank you so much. And please tell people how they could read your book work. They get it. What's your website? Yes, so I'm all over the social media and web pages by sleeping and the book is called why we sleep and he stays out now on Amazon and all major booksellers and that's probably the best way that they can learn all about sleeping frightening The Living Daylights out of.

Thank you so much Matt. I really really appreciate are you off and go to sleep? Well, thank you.

It was good, right? I didn't lie.

I don't like that was a fucking good God damn podcast. Thank our sponsors. Thank you to the cash app. You download the cash app for free in the app store or Google Play. Make sure you use the promo code Joe Rogan one word. You will get $5 and $5 will go to our good friend. Justin Brands fight for the Forgotten charity to raise money or to build Wells rather for the pygmies in the Congo and thousands of dollars have already been raised several Wells have been built very happy about that.

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That's it. We did it God damn. It was an important podcast. I really really enjoyed that. I mean that guy fucking blew me away important stuff. All right, that's it for today. We'll see you soon. Bye. Bye.