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My guest today is returning to the podcast. I always enjoy getting a chance to sit down with him and I'm especially fortunate to be able to do that in these crazy times. And we talked about that. We talked about how he got here, which is crazy, too, to fly from Boston with no one on the plane with him. He's an expert in human centered A.I. and autonomous vehicles and deep learning, formerly at MIT.

And I love him to death.

Please welcome the great and powerful Lex Friedemann podcast, The Joe Rogan Experience Train by Day.

Joe Rogan podcast, My Night All Day. You might be wondering why what I'm wearing on my face, I'm not wondering no, no coronavirus time, everybody out there is wearing a mask.

So I'm assuming that's what you're wearing on your face.

Yeah. So this is a homemade mess. Takes 30 seconds to make 30 seconds.

Did you time yourself? I don't know if you have a bra, can you cut a cup and like, strap tied on? That would work, but there's no yes, probably. But there as far as I'm aware, there's no scientific study of how effective Brassard filtering, how effective is that thing.

So I'm glad you asked you. So I'm part of this and I'll take this off in a few minutes. I just want to. One, I want to talk about some of the science, and two, I want to remove some of the stigma that surrounds some part of this group of scientists that have put together a survey paper showing that masks work. And it started as a movement called Masks Fall Hashtag.

In the Czech Republic, that essentially one of the critical components of stopping the spread of coronavirus is everybody has to wear masks and the science is twofold. So. I mean, I need to break this apart, but you're going to take the mask off eventually, right? Yeah. So let's just take it off now so I can hear you. Because there's an audio is you can hear that so much better. Oh, nice.

So it's like taking a condom off the before and after. So you probably shouldn't be wearing a mask when you're doing podcasts.

Definitely not. But everywhere else. Yes.

So when you going out to the grocery store, you wear a mask everywhere. Everywhere.

And that's OK. So some some questions. Do homemade masks work? So there's currently a shortage of an unidentified respirator masks, which should be exclusively used as PPE, personal protective equipment by health care workers.

OK, there's also a shortage of surgical masks, which are these nonvoting fabric masks that work very well for the thing I'm talking about. But because there's a shortage of them, we should not be buying them and should be saving them for health care workers. And then the open question was whether homemade masks, like the one I just described, worked to stop as a filtration mechanism. This is the confusing thing for the individual centric society that we live in.

Masks are the most what are they actually effective for? What they're effective for is to prevent me if I'm infected, asymptomatic. From spreading the infection to you, so that's where the movement of masks for all started, which is your mask protects me, my mask protects you.

And the idea there is is not I'm not protected.

I'm not creating a wall from the rest of society. I am contributing to the sort of the bigger aggregate picture of it by not allowing the infection to spread.

So it masks is masks allow you to reduce that transmission rate to one to below one. So allowing you to decrease the transmission rate while also allowing people to be in public.

So how much how much we have been studying this disease and the potential remedies and all the different things around it? A lot. A lot, yeah. What is your thoughts on hydroxy chloroquine and zinc and xpac? This is something that's been thought of as a potential remedy.

Yeah, as a potential remedy. So on that side, I haven't studied. The actual so there's nothing clearly published yet. The biggest problem, so when I say I know a lot, what I and others have been doing is reading a lot of papers coming out in the hundreds every single day. So people doing really strong studies across the board.

This is pretty unprecedented, right, where something, a new disease comes out and everyone's scrambling to try to figure out what, if anything, can help it.

Yeah, there's a lot of aspects here that are unprecedented. The scientific community has stepped up in a way that I've never seen. I couldn't imagine it was possible to do like everybody, stop what they're doing and from whatever walks of life. So artificial intelligence community is really working on a lot of aspects of this, which I can talk about every it virologists, bioinformatics, folks. So everybody's working on this looking at different angles. And obviously people who are developing vaccines and antiviral drugs are working on this.

The thing is well, to your question, we're all waiting for actual studies, so you can't really answer it. You can't say something is promising or not. So what's happening now is there's incredible candidates for vaccines, for evol drugs. But in order to say anything at all, there has to be at least a little sign, a little signal that there is that this is something they can work for, this particular. So one of the things is.

If you look at the virology of it, just the protein structure of a Corona covid-19 virus, there's a lot of elements to it that are different from even its other family member of SARS within the coronavirus family. So it's a totally open question whether things that masks what kind of things work for coronavirus versus SARS versus influenza versus rhinovirus, which is behind the common flu. And then what what works on the coronavirus? So that's true for mask's. That's true for drugs.

That's that's true for epidemiological study models and so on. So there's a lot of uncertainty here. And you have to actually do the tests on the mask side. I'm really paying attention. There's a guy named Jeremy Howard who brought a lot of us together from all kind of expertise. And we're putting together this giant paper showing that masks are effective and the same things happening in other domains masks. The powerful thing about masks is that something we can do that as individuals right now, a lot of our US individuals are stuck, trapped in their homes, unable to do anything.

Your only task is to remain to practice physical distancing, social distancing, to maintain a healthy immune system to. Of maintaining a healthy immune system seems to me to be the most important thing, because there's so many people that are asymptomatic, we don't know why, whether it's genetic, we don't know what what is causing some people to have virtually no symptoms whatsoever. But I would think that maintaining a healthy immune system, eating healthy foods and particularly supplementing with vitamins.

But for me particularly, I have ramped up my vitamin C in a big way, vitamin D 4000. I use a day exercise, exercise and sauna. If you have access to a song, I know most people don't, but if you don't have access to a song and you do have a bathtub, take yourself a hot bath, you know, which is what you're looking for as heat, shock proteins. One of the things that happens when you have flu or when you have a fever, right.

Your body is your body when it's when you bought it, when your body has a fever. One of the things that's trying to do is trying to kill that virus. It's trying to overheat it. And that that production of those heat shock proteins is very important.

There was a study written on flus and viruses and regular soreness, and it showed a significant decrease in infection with regular soreness. So it might not help you if you have it now, but it will help you to keep a strong and healthy immune system heat and cold. Those two things shocking yourself with cold baths and shocking yourself with hot bath. If you don't have access to a sauna, if you have access to a sauna, I would recommend ice, ice baths and in sauna.

It's just it's very, very important for your immune system. So it's a way that you can you're giving yourself a drug that your body makes. Really? Yeah.

I read a couple of studies actually on the use of I don't know about sauna, but heat, like you said, hot water.

Then switching to cold for increasing the cytokines know the efficacy of natural killer.

I think they'll calling the natural killer immune cells that that are essential for one. So there's this moment when you get the disease and you progress coronavirus, you progress from just being having mild symptoms to having to go to the hospital, to having to then go into a critical condition so that transition, the natural killer cells are essential for that. And the variation from heat to cold water helps.

So how strange is that? That's one of the strangest aspects of this disease, that people seem to have mild symptoms and then almost overnight it turns on them.

Yeah, it's and it's so strange. And then it depends on the you know, and we don't understand for some people that doesn't happen. For some people it does. Yeah. I mean, it's going to be a long time before they sort this out. And the real problem with that is in the meantime, all these fucking nut jobs want to blame this on 5G or, you know, or whatever, fill in the blank with whatever crazy conspiracy theory people have.

One that is interesting is that Wuhan apparently.

Had some sort of bio weapons lab there.

Hmm, that's interesting to me because if that's the case, it's not outside of the realm of possibility that something could be accidentally released or purposefully released. Like if they do have a weapons lab there, I mean, would it be why do they make weapons labs? If if you why is anyone making bio weapons? You're making bio weapons to the ideas you're making a disease you can inflict on the enemy. Right? Well, if you have a disease that can be inflicted on the enemy, that's just human beings, if that stuff gets out.

It would be the biggest shock of all time if it turns out that this was actually a manmade disease that was leaked from a lab. I'm not saying it was. Again, I'm a moron. I'm not the guy to come to when it comes to bio weapons or viruses or any of these things. But I'm just speculating as a human being that if there is a bio weapons lab and boom on Google, that was it.

No, I mean, I've heard that a few times, too, when I when I Googled Bioweapon Lab and Crenshaw was talking about the answer that comes up and says experts know it is not a bioweapon, no coronaviruses, not bioengineered. How did the outbreak start? It did not come from that. How do they know? I mean.

Right. So first of all, bioengineering, let's break that apart, is a fascinating topic. I mean, one of the things that coronavirus is making us realize is, holy crap, there's things out there that can kill us. Yeah. On a scale that we've never before imagined and nothing like that hopefully will be happening here. But this is the dress rehearsal, right?

Right. If it was something like something that has like Spanish flu or that kind of potential for death.

Yeah, influenza. Spanish flu as influenza. I don't think we've seen the worst of influenza yet.

No, I don't think so either. That was the scariest thing about talking to the guys at the CDC when Duncan Trussell and Idea showed down there, they were saying, we're not worried about manmade stuff. We're worried about natural stuff, natural viruses that mutate and jump from animals to humans like they believe this covid-19 is like, that's the scariest thing and you can't stop it. And it happens all the time.

If viruses weren't so terrifying, they would always be beautiful. The the the. So. So what is a virus?

It's some genetic code, RNA, DNA wrapped in some protein.

So it's a it's a piece of computer code that goes into a human body or any kind of living organism and has them run that code in order to print stuff and it's able to mutate. So there's there's millions of viruses out there, most of them infecting living organisms. They're not human. And they're able to spread in these insane ways and in fact, infecting billions of organisms that, as in terms of weapon, in terms of a natural pandemic is terrifying.

Yeah, because they can you know, a lot of people are worried about what's happening now. The coronavirus, the deadliest part of the Spanish flu was the second wave when there was this was the second wave connected to the First World War to say the First World War.

Is there was a mutation which made it a lot deadlier, so a single mutation that then begins to propagate through the through society can can completely change the way we experience this virus.

And it was particularly deadly because it was really devastating to young, healthy people with strong immune systems.

It was devastating to everybody, which is surprising. Usually it's compromised immune systems. Was this is devastating to.

Well, this one's weird in that it's so rare that it affects children.

It's very strange that this virus has such a small impact on children, you know, but God damn it, there was a story that I saw a video about this article that was written that was talking about a one day old baby that died from coronavirus. But when you go when you go into the actual story itself, the doctor who is furious about this was reading this paper was saying that the article, rather, he was saying the baby was 22 weeks premature.

So, like, that's probably what killed the baby and that is so premature. And he was like, the idea that someone is using click bait and fear mongering at that scale during this crazy time when people are starving for information and terrified and running around trying to find out, especially people with newborns, to read that, oh, my God, to kill a newborn. And then you go and realize there was a complication. And we don't know.

The baby tested positive for coronavirus, but it's also 22 weeks early. I mean, if that's the first baby that's dying from this, like we're very, very fortunate that it doesn't attack young people. It doesn't attack babies.

Yeah. And that's a source of terror for people. So have interacted with folks who have families. I mean, that seems to be one of the biggest things that people are afraid of. What's bad for the flu?

What's bad for the children? Yes, it's devastating for children. Yeah, and and to think so, both sides of it. One, children getting sick and two parents getting sick and thereby not being able to take care of their children. Yes, good point. So that's and that can spread.

That's why we're so sensitive now in terms of just on the verge of of giving in to the fear on a mass scale. And that's where information and sort of. Inspiring words and the silly old word, love is important like community and compassion.

So on to sort of fight that fear, the silly old word, love, silly old world is a silly old word. You're so rushing old and silly, rushing. John Wicks, a silly old world love.

Yeah. There you go. It's click bait title for the I'm going to experience now.

I just mean that. There is a danger here of people beginning to panic when the when the economic impact hits. So there's.

13 percent unemployment, I believe, in the United States. So the Great Depression was 23 percent. So we have something like that. We're starting to creep towards our numbers. That's 16 million people out of a job currently.

Well, I don't think we have any idea when the economics right now, we're in limbo. We really are in limbo because how many businesses are going to close because of this? How many people don't know that they're unemployed, but are how many businesses are barely hanging on and they might not make it to the end of the year. And if the economy takes a downturn because of all these people out of job, how many businesses that were barely hanging on before and they're still open now, we're going to be gone a couple of weeks and we really don't know.

And I mean, how long do you think it's going to take before businesses are up and running again? I know Wuhan is back up and business again, but there's a lot of criticism about that. And they're also saying they're seeing new cases.

I think the question I think it can be sooner than we think if we do the following things. So, one, I'd hate to linger on this, and I love to talk to you.

You talk about mousakas again.

Well, it's funny, but I know for a fact you're going to make fun of me, just like I'll make fun of you right back for loving fanny packs.

But just like fanny pack so exceptionally functional to carry on the things you need, masks will be masks are required to slow the spread of this infection.

Listen, I'm not an anti mask person and would like one of the things that to do is you have to start getting governors so politicians to wear them. Our President Trump to wear them.

Well, this is the Boris Johnson question, right? Because that guy not only was he not wearing masks or shaking hands and he was talking about it pretty openly and now he's in intensive care.

If he dies, that will be the biggest wake up call for everyone.

Yeah, I mean, I hope he doesn't die, but God damn people are so mean over there. I don't know his policies. I don't know. I don't I haven't been in England in a long time. I don't know how they feel about him. But fuck people. Some people hate him.

They're like saying things like they they're hoping he dies.

They hope he suffers and dies. I've read Twitter, Andrew Doyel, Andrew Boyle, rather, the guy who wrote WOAK. Tatiana Magrath, yeah, is he but it was actually his own personal account, he published some of the tweets that people have written about. You don't have to put it up there. I don't want to put up these people signal, but it's just so heartless. So, yeah, that's mask's.

But testing, really, the first one is. Yeah. So there's three things mask's besides like washing hands and social distancing all that stuff, masks, testing and contact tracing.

So contact tracing. So this is great. Let's talk about this. First of all, I'm going to keep it. Would we get it?

Masks. We don't get it. We don't get we don't have. Have you been wearing masks? You know how weird it is. Like societally for us, it's a weird step to take. I don't know what it's like an open question. What does it take to do that? Yeah, I know it's weird. It's really weird.

So you can't see the emotional expression of the people. You can't it's like there's a strange effect to it. And then the other effect is as a as an individualistic society, you're wearing the mask not to protect yourself, but to protect others. And that's a weird thing for us to do.

We don't I don't think people are thinking that. I think they think they're protecting themselves.

Well, you can sort of delude them or you can tell them the truth, that the that this I mean, there's a nice positive aspect to this is me wearing a mask says I care about not getting you sick.

Yeah. It's a really powerful social signal for when you're hanging hanging out with people.

I think there's so much ignorance going on, though. I don't think people where there's a large percentage of people this is my assumption that are wearing that mass are not wearing it because they think they're going to protect other people.

They're worried about getting it.

Yeah, and I don't think I mean, this is what the WHL and CDC, this is where I I hate what they're doing, which is sort of there's truth and that there is ideas of how the truth will be misinterpreted by the public. And so you shouldn't tell people the truth. So there's a kind of sense, like the H.O. and CDC have said, that masks don't work, for example, or they said that we shouldn't be wearing masks, we should see them for the health care workers.

Well, we have to be honest about what the timeline, the what they've said they're wrong about so much of it. They're initially saying they transferred from person to person. I mean, this is just in the beginning of the year.

I mean, Dan Crenshaw went over the timeline of all the things that were wrong about what the World Health Organization said on the podcast yesterday. It's terrifying stuff. And, you know, and obviously newspapers were going off of that information and they were printing misleading stuff as well. And the president didn't know No one.

No, that the whole thing is very weird. If you if you're going based on what they were saying, it didn't look like it was going to be nearly as bad as it is. And then everyone has had to make adjustments.

I'm actually. The one I'm so I'm I'm so freaked out about the loss of life and the loss of jobs and how people are getting, it's really weird. Everything about it is weird. It's weird in our lifetime to be a part of something that's just affecting the entire world like this, but.

I've got a lot of messages from friends that are coordinating with their families like we've never been closer and that we realize that we're in this together because we realize that, you know, during these crazy times, you you realize what is important. Love that silly little word. You were talking about love and community and friendship. Like my neighbors. Everyone's so nice. Everyone's waving now and everyone's like saying hi and, you know, talking from over the side of the yard and how's everything?

And you guys all right. And anything. We're right here. There's a lot of this like comfort and warmth that, you know, I think I experienced a little bit of that post 9/11 where people get shock, they get shook up, and then they realize what matters, you know?

Yeah, that's one of the things I don't like about masks is it feels like you're protecting yourself from like you're removing yourself from me.

There's that look and get away from me. Dirty people get away from me.

So the germophobia kind of idea, that's not what they are supposed to represent, but that I'm sitting here on the science that says we have to all wear them and then thinking like, how's that going to change your interactions?

It's it. I don't know what to do with that.

I know you're an MMO fan. Yeah. What do you think about the UK's decision to have fights next weekend on an island?

Was there? No, we don't know where it is. I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing, if I'm going to it or not. I don't know where I'm taking. Yeah, I don't know where it is. I don't even know if it's in America. But I literally right now, as of right now, I don't know shit. I have no information.

OK, so first of all, if it's an island like I saw it because it's Fire Island, it's literally going story line and.

Sure. I mean this. Yes. And to the dragon, this is like I don't know who the Bruce Lee is or the Chuck Norris.

Should I get a Chinese kung fu outfit and do commentary with a kung fu outfit on 100? Would that be culturally appropriate at this?

No. You know what I'll do when I'm Bruce Lee tracksuits that wouldn't be culturally appropriate.

Well, they just be fandom in a time of coronavirus. You get a cultural appropriation pass.

OK, I heard. Yeah, I, I to me, I think that's great because. If its message correctly to show that we are while maintaining sort of social distancing, all those kinds of things, we're trying to fight to bring our society back because there's no social distancing in a fucking cage fight.

Yeah, OK. They're on top of each other, sweating each other's mouths. There's not going to be there's going to be if Tony Ferguson's fighting is going to be blood for sure. Everybody fights. Tony Ferguson looks like they fell off a train.

So there's going to be blood. The Cisco distancing you want to avoid is large crowds, right? The one on one.

One on one. So what if everybody gets tested? Yeah, I think that's accessible. How how accessible are tests right now?

So in America, eight point seven percent of the population have been tested. That in terms of testing everybody that's not accessible, but in terms of testing special like of special events. Yeah, so that's possible.

So what do you think they would do if, like, there's a lot of good fights in this car, by the way, Genaro's and strike is fight in front is frightening.

Garnham. Yeah, I mean, come on, Guno and Rozin strike.

That is that is a fucking crazy fight. What if one of those guys test positive, would have, you know, would have just engaged taste test positive. Guy's supposed to be fighting first and. Do you go ahead or not? Like, you obviously have to ask the opponent if they want to. Yeah. I am a little bit Russian, I would I would go ahead. I'll go ahead and I don't know. So my main concern is how will the general public interpret it?

Because you want to do everything you do now should be done in a way that is one is positive, like inspires us towards the community and to gets us to do the right thing scientifically.

I don't know if a covid infected person fighting would inspire others to say, oh, it's OK if they're doing it, it's OK for me.

I don't think they would allow it. I have a feeling that if someone did test positive, they would they would kick them off the card. Yeah, that's what I should say. Kick them off the card. I should say. Remove them from the card. I take it back. That's probably the right thing to do.

I would imagine it has to be the right thing to do. And then you would also have to quarantine the people that worked with him in training camp. And you have to test everybody.

Yeah, that's, by the way, what contact tracing is. Once you find somebody and there's a technology for it, I mean, that's a really interesting infrastructure there. But I still I love the idea that they're pushing forward and doing the fights.

There's a lot of people that are very upset with it. It's it's very it's very controversial.

The whole thing's controversial. Do you think they're upset because they don't want anybody to do anything out of the norm of social distancing and of quarantining? And you know what? We're on lockdown right now.

And for them, look, even Nevada, which relies almost entirely on casino money, I mean, not Vegas, at least Vegas relies almost entirely on casino money. Right. All the other businesses are so supported by the casinos. Those casinos are shut the fuck down, cannot have the fights in Vegas, but those are large crowds and physical spaces.

I think now I understand that we're going to be this is going to be a long this is not going to be a month. This is not going to be two months. How many months you think this is going to be? I think before we're back to normal, I think it will be a year. And in terms of what is going to reopen the economy, I think it's. This summer, some possibly late summer, unless there's some sort of an effective remedy.

Oh, yeah, we know for sure. Antiviral drugs or vaccine. Mm hmm. Well, vaccine is going to take a long time. There is some really impressive work on vaccines. They're accelerating the crap. You're supposed to take 10, 15 years for a vaccine and then they're saying 18 months, obviously. But that's still a long time. That's a really long time. But I mean, they do some impressive fast testing and vaccines, obviously mass scale vaccines.

There's something going to be exceptionally careful.

I wonder what they're going to do with the U.S. election. Masland oh, oh, no, no, no, I have an idea. We'll just postpone it until I'm just kidding PostFinance on about it.

Yeah, no, it's a terrible idea. Oh, one thing I do have to say, because I can't believe this is still going on because there's a big dust up recently because I said that I wouldn't vote for Biden, then I'd vote for Trump before I vote for Biden. I just want people to know, first of all, folks, I'm barely paying attention. OK, if you're getting your political advice from me, I'm a moron. OK, I am a comedian, slash cage fighting commentator.

You know how you have friends that don't know much about fighting.

And they'll say something like, I think Bruce Lee kicked Jon Jones ass. Yeah, that's me with politics. OK, don't listen to me for political advice. You want to listen to people with for political advice, listen to people that are actually paying attention. Listen to guys who that's their living. Guys like Kyle Kolinsky. Listen to Jimmy Dawg. He does a fantastic job breaking down politics. He understands it.

Right. Listen to the people that the Hill watch that show.

It's fantastic. It's on YouTube. There's a lot of people, David Pakman, he understands politics. I'm not that guy, OK? But what I am saying is I don't want to vote for someone that has a mental problem.

He's got dementia. That's all I'm saying. My parents called me. My mom's like I heard you're a Trump supporter now.

I'm like, I would never vote for a person who obviously has dementia. I said I would vote for Trump before I'd vote for Biden. That's what that means. You know, and there's been fucking dozens of articles written about this. I'm like, Jesus Christ tweeted.

He tweeted that he tweeted a clip of you saying that you're a Trump supporter.

No, he didn't. Yeah. When did this happen? Like, shortly after. Get the fuck out. I'm pretty sure we retweeted or tweeted. I'm not sure that's hilarious. Yeah.

Have been one of those fake Donald Trump accounts.

No, I'm pretty sure it was Trump Jr. I was Donald Junior. I have a programmatic way of following Twitter and I follow Trump.

OK, either way, I just want everybody know this is all I'm saying is I think the Democrats are making a horrible mistake by putting in. You just had another huge stumble yesterday. The man is ill. I wish him no, no ill will. I'm not I'm not a Biden hater.

What do you think?

I just think it's wrong to take a guy that you clearly can tell is struggling. He's an older guy who's got some sort of a mental breakdown issue. He's got what appears to be, according to some experts who have analyzed what he's doing, it's some form of dementia. He has a problem maintaining conversations. That's all I'm saying to him. Yeah, that's all I'm saying, folks.

Just and also, I'm a fucking comedian, cage fighting commentator. You don't need to come to me for that.

What is this? Donald J. Trump retweeted he has an American flag in the background to the hair of Eric Weinstein.

This is what, again, this is what I said. This is what I said. You shouldn't have that guy. I would vote for any of the other ones. Any of them. Bring them back. Amy Klobuchar, bring her back. I'd vote for her before I'd vote for for Biden. I'd vote for to judge. I'd for sure vote for Tulsi. I love Tulsi Gabbard for sure. Vote for Bernie. That's all I'm saying, folks.

You shouldn't have someone who's clearly got something really wrong and just prop them up and Weekend at Bernie's style and fucking bring them up to the podium.

It's crazy. Bring back Andrew Young.

Fuck you actually know I love Andrius trying to figure out if it's possible to bring back people at this stage because I don't know, much has changed.

covid changed everything. Yes. You should be able to run back.

Well, they should be able to do. Is someone should. I don't know. I think they're just hoping and praying that Biden can hang in there long enough and people's hatred for Trump will get it to the to the finish line and that they could they could win and they can keep him from having these conversations where he stumbles a lot.

But it's not fair to him as a human being. It's not it's not fair to us that this is their only choice they're given us. I mean, there are so many people that were involved in those debates. Kamala Harris, bring her back, bring them all back, bring any of them back. They they would be way better spokesperson for the Democratic Party. So this is just a terrible idea. That's all. That's all I'm saying. It's all I did say.

But it's like I just can't believe that someone like me has any impact at all in people's political choices. It doesn't make any sense.

Don't do that to rely rely on people that are paying attention, rely on people words. That's their job. Let me hear the new one. Let's hear the new.

Well, no, it's what we cannot let this. We've never allowed any crisis from the Civil War straight through to that pandemic is 70 all the way round 16. We have never, never let our democracy six second fiddle way. We can both have a democracy and elections and at the same time correct the public health, the case where we are.

Well, well, that's not too bad. It's just kind of stumbled for his words. There's been some real bad ones. But, you know, you got to think he's probably medicated. They're probably juicing them up to get them to that state of health anyway. Look, these people are not stupid. These people that are involved in running his campaign, they're probably giving them IV vitamin drips and doing everything they can to try to get him as healthy as possible to bring them to that state.

It's just not good enough. Er, it's not fair for us. It's not fair for him.

So to try to play because I kind of agree with it. So I cringe every time. It's sad.

But I was I think it was in 2016 when Hillary Clinton ran. I was I like Biden until I hear him talk. There's something there that he's just not good at it. We keep seeing things like this that just a little bit off. And to me, the question is. So I I'm obviously I'm awkward at speaking.

And you also speak Russian? No, I think that there's a brain thing there. Like I well, you might be too smart for us to have a regular conversation. It's a very nice way of putting it.

But that and he used to stutter. So when do we need our presidential candidates to be eloquent?

It to me and. An open question is a good point, because he might just be like, I would vote for Biden if he just never talked.

So back in the you know, especially in 2016 and so on, just every time because he's like he's kind of like a blue collar.

He has a story with this, with a son of that dying.

I mean, there is so much depth to him as a human being to his story. He obviously, as you've mentioned, he done quite a few shady things like lying and and plagiarizing speeches.

And that was back in 88 when he was running for president. Yeah.

I mean, but in terms of his, like, long track record of just being as part of the system, whatever the whatever you think about the system, he just knows, like at a time like this, we need government to work. Well, no matter who you are, you know, government needs to work well now. So you have to ask yourself, who is the person who will make government work?

Well, right now, I don't know if it's him, you know, I don't know. I don't know who it is. I don't think it's a good idea to have one person have the kind of power that a president has. I mean, just imagine you're Donald Trump, right? You're not just responsible for dealing with international relations with North Korea. You're also responsible for the environment. You're also responsible for this covid-19 outbreak. You're also responsible.

I mean, you can keep going. It's crazy to think that one person should have responsibility for all the things that happen to the United States of America. It's nuts. Yeah, it's totally crazy.

But I think they don't have to be responsible. So to me, the best for president is to inspire the entire population just to be a sort of talking head, to inspire the world and the United States and to hire the best people to take care of each of those things. Yeah, so attract so inspired, the best in the world to come work for him, whether that's military, whether that's the virus on the science side. And that's to me, that's how you should elect a president who inspires the best people in the world.

I think you're right. Yeah. I just think that it's it's an impossible task for an individual. And I don't think I think we should rethink it. But good luck with that. I mean, the crazy thing about the United States is really I mean, I had a bit about it that the United States was founded in 1776. People live to be 100.

That's three people ago. Three people. Yeah.

I'm like, this is how recently this is. And this is a bit about President Trump, about him being elected, about how crazy and the bit was about. We went from Obama. I went from this really intelligent, very articulate person. And it's like we were involved in a relationship with a really and now we're dating a whore.

And yet it was this is crazy bit that I had about. It's like we're we're on the rebound and we're just a nutty relationship now. But I just I don't think anybody should be president. I just I don't think it's a good position for human beings. I think it was a great idea.

When we're tribes, we're a tribe of a few hundred people or a mayor of, you know, a town. That's great. Yeah, mayors make sense. It makes sense that one person it's a very stressful job, very difficult, but it seems tenable. It seems like a mayor can be, you know, a mayor can really control city and do a good job. I think when you get to the scale of the United States of America, it just seems nuts.

It just seems nuts to have one person run the whole show. And then also clearly not because, you know, you have this gigantic organization behind it that requires all the money from the donors and special interest groups and lobbyists. And all these moving pieces are involved to make sure that the people that get in place are going to suit your interests and fulfill your needs. And, oh, and it's all going on right now. While fucking pandemic virus is sweeping the entire globe.

It's really weird. It's a really weird time.

Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I wish we could just rerun the whole thing because some of the ideas like Andrew Young's ideas of universal basic income.

Yes. That's obviously he's right. You know, look, what he said about automation now applies to this virus. It's virus.

People that need money. Yeah.

And this is this is where it's really weird.

I wish I'd brought this up with Dan Cronshaw yesterday, but a lot of Republicans want smaller government. They want less government. But this is a time where big government is necessary, where you're dealing with something like a pandemic virus. We're dealing with the situation where you have to look out for the welfare of all these people. You have to stimulate the economy. The government has to pour money into it. This is a time where big government is necessary.

And this is a great argument for balance, right? This is a great argument for for big government.

Well, the goal, I think, for both Republicans and Democrats is effective government. And then Republicans would say that. Big, big government is actually increasing the bureaucracy, not defectiveness, so this is the question now we're testing how how do you get at a large scale, one point seven percent we need to test? Half the population, yeah, I don't know. I don't know, but I would imagine if tests exist, right, we have a test.

So what we need to do is figure out a way to ramp that up. And I'm sure that's being done right now. We're just not aware of it. I'm sure that they're trying to figure out a way to get it to everybody.

I mean, some of that is just mass production of testing kits. The main test they're using as a molecular based test. There's other ideas like in the artificial intelligence side as ideas of how to use CT scan chest scans and try to detect the early onset of covid versus just regular pneumonia, because there's a lot of sort of neighboring conditions here, too. Yeah, that's from flu, right?

Yeah, that's the thing. I was going to say that some enormous percentage, like 85 percent of people that come in that are sick are not infected with this because this is flu season.

And the flu so far has killed an extraordinary number of people, which is really weird, like while this is going on. And this is not to diminish the deaths of the people that have died from covid because it's all horrible, right? Anyone that loses a loved one, I, I, you know, my heart reaches I ache for all of you. I feel terrible for anybody who loses someone that they care for, whether it's an old person or a young person to a disease.

It's horrible. But why is it that we're so terrified of covid?

Clearly because it's new, but when the flu is killing more people right now than covid is and we're not worried about that at all. I mean, we should clearly be worried about both things. And this is, again, a great advertisement for strengthening your immune system. This is a great wake up call for a lot of people that are unhealthy, that are eating unhealthy, living unhealthy.

Please, like if you value life and it's like it's so easy to just assume you're always going to be OK if you're OK.

Now, you know, this is this this sort of mentality that a lot of us go through life with, that everything's fine now. It'll be fine.

And this is where preppers go off the rail the other way right there, like, fuck, the sky's falling. It's all going to fall apart. And those people I'm fascinated to see how they're going to freak out like now that this is real and that, like, it's probably a good idea to have stored food. It's probably a good idea to have a small supply of water that's going to last a few weeks. This is all a good idea.

Like how are those motherfuckers going to react to this, whether they're ready? What do you mean?

Well, they're going to go they're going to ramp it up even further because now they're going to be justified like they were. Right.

So what you might very well see, especially in the South, a lot of people have guns. Right? And with with coronavirus, there's like you don't want to infected people in your town.

So you could very easily see people barricading roads and saying you're not allowed to enter the town.

Yeah, well, you're seeing that in some places where people have vacation homes and they're leaving the big city and going to the vacation homes. And the people that live in these small communities are freaking out because they don't want these infected people coming into their communities and infecting them. And they're trying to keep them out of their homes, out of their second homes, which is like, look, you can't keep someone out of a fucking house that they own, OK?

You can't just decide that you're going to throw the constitution out the window. And these people don't own their own property anymore. But it gets to this weird state where everybody's in a panic.

So this to me is where the president is essential is to when people are in a panic, there's so much uncertainty to inspire the world and sort of take us back to reminding Americans, reminding the world what everyone did in World War two. Yeah, sort of the the huge things we've overcome as a civilization that this is one of. Yes. Those cases and sort of as opposed to trying to defend your little corner of this land, seeing us all together as a community and sort of inspire that, I think, and trying to remove, I think, in terms of winning elections.

OK, if Donald Trump wants to win the election, it's just do that because in these times, difficult times, presidents are popular. If you just forget the stupid red blue divide. Yeah. And just inspire the whole country, he'll run away with it.

It's true. But, you know, it's hard right now to even have you know, he's kind of he's a guy that when someone comes at him, he comes at them harder. You know, he describes himself as a counterpuncher. Right? Someone hits him, he hits him back even harder.

And the media just can't let him go like they there's a lot of there's a lot of currency in attacking him and coming up with a great gotcha moment that gets captured on video and then gets released online. And so you get all these reporters that have this rare opportunity to talk to him. And we talked about this one lady who just kept being upset that someone in the administration, apparently, she said, had referred to it as the Choung Flu. And he's like, what did you say?

And she said, Kung fu. He said, say that again, Kong flu. So she said that. And he goes, Who said that? She didn't have. She didn't know who he was, like someone said it, like you heard someone said it like, is this really your question? Like, is this really what's what we're worried about is a joke someone might have made in the middle of a horrendous crisis that they call it the flu?

Oh, Jesus. Let's stop the presses. First of all, kung fu is awesome, OK? There's nothing wrong with kung fu. Yeah, is there anything wrong with saying that, I mean, look, the flu, it's not a flu, it's a virus. It's horrible that it's it's devastating all these people. But is it more horrible if you call it common flu? Is it so much more horrible that we have to I mean, is it that racist?

Well, to me, that's a beautiful moment to say.

Let's put our bullshit aside. Let's put this bullshit aside.

Unfortunately, he always he was almost there. Yeah. And instead he made it more like about himself and just didn't so much of conversation with that lady.

I don't think he did. I think that conversation with that lady was like, who said this?

You know, and then but that lady represents a large percent of the population full of ridiculous ideas such as that. Yeah.

And he gets a chance to speak to the like, inspire that part of the population, say, let's put this social justice warrior stuff aside. Yeah. Brief moment as we fight a thing that threatens the economic well-being of our nation.

Well, you hear very little about transgender people using restrooms right now. You know, you know you know, there's a lot of things that you don't hear about.

You know, you don't hear about gender pronouns and a lot of stuff that was so supposedly important just a small amount of time ago. And it's not to diminish the rights and the values of transgender people.

It's just to say, I think a lot of what people were complaining about and the reasons why people were up in arms about things is not just because we have real issues with discrimination, but more so that we don't have real problems. So we look to amplify problems that might not be nearly as big as we as they are as we would like to think they are. You know, I mean, when we're dealing with something that's a real life threatening, a real huge issue, no one gives a fuck about your gender pronouns.

You know, no one gives a fuck of your. Are they then Berson. Are you they them. OK, congratulations. I don't know what to tell you, but we're in the middle of something that is a new disease that's killing people and some people, it's not killing them at all and they're spreading it around and it's weird. So we don't have time for nonsense. And we're in a lot of ways because society is. So I want to say this in the best way possible.

This is the greatest time ever to be alive.

Even now, even now, with all this craziness, if you compare the world today with the way we're connected to each other, yeah, there's problems. There's always going to be problems. We're a bunch of fucking weird territorial monkeys living on a planet. You know, there's going to be problems. We're sorting through all these different things out. And there's varying levels of economic disparity, physical disparity, mental disparity. This is there's so much there's so much difference between all of us.

There's no no chance for complete, total harmony. It's not going to exist with these territorial apes, with thermonuclear weapons. It's not going to exist. You know, what's one of the first things that people did when when all this happened? They went out and hoarded toilet paper and bought guns? OK, that's you know, this is what people are all about. Even the shit hits the fan. They want guns. They want to be able to wipe their ass.

And this is what people panicked about.

This is still one of the best times ever to be alive. And the the thing that gives me hope is the way I feel in my community, the way I feel with my friends. I've had so many friends reach out and just say, are you OK? How's everything? If you need anything, I'm here. That's beautiful. I love that. I love this feeling of community that we have real community.

It's this like especially in the stand up comedy world, there's an incredible sense of community. Right now. People are reaching out to help people. People are donating to people. People are sending people money. People are really they're checking in on each other. And it's like we're appreciating each other. We appreciate each other in a way that I think I think is beautiful. And it's it makes me sad that it kind of has to coincide with a tragedy sometimes.

But we're humans sometimes we need a wake up call.

We need we need a little something that lets us know, hey, you know, this is a temporary situation, this life in general, everything about it is temporary. We're a finite life forms on a finite planet that's heated by a finite star. It's none of this is going to last. It's going to last for a long time, but it's not going to last. Enjoy this. Enjoy this. And let's let's let's enforce and let's encourage good values, healthy values, community values.

We can get through this and be a better country. I really believe this. I really believe this. I think the survivors of this can get through this as long as we can retain these lessons. It's so easy once something happens and then that thing normalizes and we get back to air quotes, regular life. It's so easy to forget the lessons, but if we can reinforce those, we can remind ourselves of this and we can have these moments, you know, like so many cultures do when they have these religious ceremonies.

You know, I was talking to Eric Weinstein. We were talking about Jews and they were talking. What was the fucking. Was it Passover? Yes, Passover. And he was talking about how they tell the store. Every year, and the reason why they tell a story ever used to remind everybody to remind people that you're here because others went through some horrendous shit and let's let's let's thank them was praise them and let's remind ourselves we're very, very fortunate and remind ourselves that we're a community.

And the scale of World War Two did that from where I came from in Russia. That's where that's why I have my guitar here. You can play a song. Maybe I'm all right now. OK, well, OK. I'll spark up a joint. I want to hear this.

But the reason I actually messaged Jamie and asked, do you think it's OK if I play a song and Jerry. Come on, man, your poem that you read last time was the shit.

Well, but I message without having a song. He didn't have a song. No, no. I was just I was thinking about so I've been reading a lot about war too recently before the coronavirus.

And then I found out, I learned about my grandfather who was at age 17, which actually tells you a lot. You have to be 18 to be in the army. And he sort of faked his that was that was what everybody did. Young kids wanted to to fight for their country. The interesting kind of story, you're not they weren't they weren't dodging the draft. They everybody wanted to fight for their country. And at that stage in 1941, when Germany invaded the Soviet Union, the order from Stalin was that if you get captured, you have to kill yourself.

So there's no surrender.

So you have to I mean, that's the spirit that you're fighting with. And so the only way out is if you're a soldier is death or severe injury. And in terms of being lucky, I've been thinking about my grandfather a lot who was severely injured. He was on a machine gun. He fought actually alongside Mikhail Kalashnikov, AK 47 in Venezuela. Yeah. So that's that's AK 47 came from World War Two. That's designed from from there. And see, your your job is to Germany in the fall of 1941 is marching towards Moscow.

And your job is basically to be a human, just a thing that slows them down long enough to where they don't reach Moscow until winter, which would give an advantage, which would allow Moscow to defend easier. So winter is very difficult to fight even World War two in Russia.

So your basic job is to slow down the troops. So you're sitting there with a machine gun, which is exceptionally difficult to carry and you're just emptying all your bullets. And so most people are dead.

And how heavy is that machine? That was one of the huge criticisms. There's a particular model I forget, but most machine guns at the start of their using basically World War One weapons in World War two and that the machine guns that they were using had this giant metal shield that, you know, you hide behind as you're shooting. And that shield would turn out to be exceptionally heavy. So it's not something you can carry easily. So I would venture to say it's probably like 200 pounds, that kind of thing.

Fuck, yes.

You're dragging it, you know, through the mud, through all of that and while bullets are flying. So, yeah, that's it right there.

I don't know the exact get pretty close. Probably.

Yeah, probably. We have to look at Soviet Union, where the equipment was not great. So you're basically throwing human bodies. And I mean, that is I was thinking about how lucky that is because I'm alive, because the bullets, like he got hurt his leg, he got hurt in his leg, and I'm alive because he got hurt because the severely where he couldn't continue, because that's the only way out.

And sort of most of his most of his brothers are dead. Right.

And that's you're talking about 75 million people died in one way or two, most of them in Europe, and 50 million of them, 50 million is civilians.

So people without a gun. Fifty million, 50 million died, and it's different than the virus. I mean, it's different. There's something particularly ruthless. It's something ruthless about war.

But the stories they tell is of brotherhood, as you've known from JoCo and everybody. Is that the kind of friendship, the kind of connection that it's incredible there. And this is our little a little bit a world war to moment because it's a global.

Have you ever read Sebastian Junger's book Tribe? Yeah, it's a great book on that. I highly recommend it to people.

Try to understand why that tribal connection, why the community connection of people that have gone through wars is so strong.

They actually prefer war in a lot of ways. Some of them do, at least to being home. They prefer prefer that that camaraderie.

What do you do when you're tuning this up?

How are you doing this? I never understood this. There's a few things. It's funny. Well, I think that's funny. You can do it by ear, but I'm actually kind of scared shitless. Autotuning. Yeah, I don't know what's going on. It's like this is a low e e OK, that was added to a D and there's a little mechanism you just attach to the guitar.

I think it's actually doesn't go by auto but by vibration.

Oh, that thing's telling you. If it's correct, what is it doing it. What does it look like, like when you seen a reading on it or something. Yeah.

Oh oh that's electronic.

That looks like a little galaxy y and when it hits blue that's untuned a d g b a perfect U.

Oh, that's dope. John, terrifying, this is OK. Come on, bro, come on, bro, you're a bad motherfucker, is the lyrics. It's the lyrics. Yeah. I sing along.

No, don't please.

It's bad enough for me, although I do want to play a silly song later on, OK? Is it a Weird Al Yankovic song? No, it's has to do with. He had the best tweet about this. You read that. He goes, we're all Howie Mandel now.

Mandela is right. He's probably completely freaked out. Probably get him in right after it's over.

What's the song about? About my grandfather, about the time were in about love, you write this song. Yeah, OK, OK.

Oh. The other thing is, I'm a huge Hendrix fan, so I wanted to play like last time I chickened out. I want to play Hendrix.

You know, hajo or voodoo child or you know, but your videos get taken down, as I've learned now, and I don't get taken down its revenue sharing.

Well, someone tries to steal your money with that, with the music part. Yeah, we did that with when Gary Clark Jr. sang that Allman Brothers song with Suzanne Santo, which was great. They sang Midnight Rider. They did a version of it that's so different than the original.

But they're like, fuck you pay me. Yeah, crazy. So you can't even do your own instancing mechanical licensing. Yeah.

And a lot of it is automated actually. Oh I don't know. I've said this before. One of the things I love about music is I have zero talent. I have none.

I don't I don't know how to play anything. That's why Jamie thinks it's funny. I don't know what tuning is. I love things I don't know nothing about. And I know that there's a rabbit hole of learning music that like Jersey, the movie Groundhog Day.

Yeah. Great movie. Great song. Last night. We have family night.

We're watching going like old school movies like I saw you watching Adam Sandler.

I'm Adam Sandler, junkie right now. I've watched them all do. His fucking movies are so overrated. It's insane. Underrated.

I say over. Yeah, I'm saying that a lot is underrated. Right at the movies.

Yeah. I got the names right. I saw the Burt Krischer thing. Excuse me. His movies are so fucking underrated. They're amazing.

Look, the fucking Zohan Don't Mess With the Zohan is one of the funniest movies I've ever seen. Yeah, I was crying laughing in the movie. He just goes for it.

These movies are so silly. They're so good for his serious movies.

I really like his latest one is really I heard. It's amazing. I haven't had a chance to see it. Uncut gems. But anyway, in Groundhog Day, which is Bill Murray movie, different thing, but another old school movie from like ninety something, Bill Murray lives the same life over and over again.

And no matter what he does, kills himself, keeps waking up same guy over and over again. But he learns how to play the piano because he's like, fuck it, I should just learn a bunch of things. And so by the end of the movie, spoiler alert, I mean it's fucking thirty year old movie, but he knows how to play the piano. He knows how to do a million different things. And I remember thinking like that that is really almost what it takes to be an adult and learn how to play the piano.

You must you must have an unlimited amount of time because to to delve into music, like to really learn how to play. Like if you're a Hendrix fan, I'm a huge Hendrix fan.

Right. Does the reason why this podcast is named the Joe Rogan Experience?

I stole the name from Hendrix, but I the idea of me learning how to play guitar, being a Hendrix fan, trying to be as good as Hendrix are trying to mimic like what he does. That's too much to too. That's too far. I'm like, you walk into the sun like, that's too far. You're never going to get there. That's too much time. That's how I look at it.

I look at it like it's an impossible time.

Hogge Let's see if you can comment on this, because for me, people ask me about guitar, like, how the hell do I do? Like, you know, I'm the scientists are doing stuff like how do you have time for the guitar and the way I've learned guitar and I won't show off the things that I could do. I'll just show off my cello voice is to practice every day for I would say about five years to practice for like thirty minutes a day.

So you just have to you shouldn't look, I mean, you know this you shouldn't look how far to go to learn Hendrix.

Right. Is Hendrix particularly is exceptionally easy scales and chords. You can learn in a day everything he uses and then just slowly practice using the basic blues scale.

He's he's a he's a basic blues musician.

And how dare you know?

Well, it well, it's like a lot of comedians are basic comedians, but the master the timing.

Yeah. I don't I think fundamentals is a word that doesn't offend people. That means the same thing in jujitsu. You're used to black belt. You understand that's a thing that for whatever reason is it's bothered so many people that Vinny MacLeish was talking about metatarsal. They were on the the ultimate fighter together. Militar was one of the coaches. And Vinny, my glass was working with someone else. And he was saying that Nogueira, who's Militar Nogueira, who's a legend, I mean, just a fucking legend when he was in his prime.

And he's one of my all time favorite fighters ever. His fight with Bob Sapp was probably one of the most legendary fights in all of mixed martial arts and one of the best examples of technique over brawn. I mean, and he's an unbelievably tough guy. So Militar was just an all time great. But MacLeish, who's a legit world champion, Vinnie MacLeish, was talking about Metatarsals jujitsu game. And he said it's very basic, but Minuto got offended by that and was really upset at him.

But he tried to say, like, I didn't and I've talked to him about it personally. He's like, I didn't mean in a bad way. He took it in a bad way. But I was just saying it's the basics. It's like he does arm bars, triangles, redneck jokes, guillotines, but it's like razor sharp, high. Your Grace is a great example that Crohn Chrom Grace is a great example of that fundamentals just sharpened to a fucking razor's edge where they just have the perfect guard pass.

But standard guard passes, right? The perfect grou naked choke, the perfect triangle choke. They just know those fundamentals that you get taught when you're a blue belt, but they have them down to just the most refined way possible. So that's that's basics in jujitsu. It gets discussed like that. And some people, for whatever reason, to get sensitive about it. And even the modern guys, even Gordon Ryan and all the data, her death squad people, they have actually a very fundamental jujitsu.

Oh, unquestionably. They have they have those techniques for sure. The difference between the Doneger people is there's two differences.

One, they have a phenomenally dedicated group of people that have come out of handsaws because Hanzo is an amazing guy and he fostered an incredible sense of community. Also his legacy, I mean, Renzo's Hanzo Gracy, he's he's a legend. Right. And he comes from the most famous family in the history of martial arts. And he is easily one of the nicest and friendliest ones of those that that incredible family. So he's got this gym that's just filled with all these people that are, first of all, honored to be there to train with a legend and a legend school and to they all have this incredible sense of community because of Hanzo and because of the people that Hanzo was taught there.

And then you have Danaher, who's this wizard, this New Zealand fuckin psychopathic genius scratchcard.

He's awesome. Finds the system behind everything, which is amazing. I mean, listening to him talk is a modern day philosopher.

Well, he's a different thing, man. He's a different thing. Donahoe's is a different thing. And he's a he's a mean genius, you know, and he breaks jiujitsu down and I say mean genius only compliments only compliment.

I'm saying I mean, he's like he, you know, knows how to teach you how to fuck people up man. And he does it in like an incredibly scientific, systematic way, the way he he makes his system and how these guys can progress from being a beginner to just a few years later, being able to tap really high level black belts is sensational.

And that's what people the reason I brought them up is people often don't think of foot locks or the lower half of the body as a part of the basics.

But I think Danaher is one of the people who wouldn't listen and so on who helped discover the basics of foot locks.

Yeah, there's a famous quote from Lyster. Why would you ignore fifty percent of the body?

Yeah, and Donna had talked about it on my podcast and he's like, why would you see that fucking genius brain spinning that was the greatest podcast ever shit out of those correcting your flawed breakdown of different fights? It's great.

I love his breakdown also of Gordon Ryan versus Cyborg. That was very, very interesting.

Very, very interesting, because that was a big moment when Gordon Ryan tapped Cyborg.

Everybody's like, whoa, holy shit. Like, people knew he was real, wasn't like people were doubting that he was an amazing grappler. But when he pretty easily tapped Cyborg, it was a real wake up call for a lot of folks.

Yes. And but on the point of BASIX, it's interesting when compared to music, the this is what's mysterious to me about watching jujitsu, watching Hajja Gracy is you watch him do basics and destroy some of the greatest blackbelt.

But I can't see I can't see what he's doing, actually.

So when you roll around with Saliha Barrel and Shaji Hibara Brolgas another example, that style crushing pressure passes to their top game is just fucking horrendous.

But they're doing the same stuff I do. But it feels different. And only by feeling it do I discover. The cool thing about music is I can actually it's more it reveals itself clearer by you can hear the difference between Hendrix like Stevie Ray Vaughan playing a band.

I played Comfortably Numb, a cover of Comfortably Numb, and I put up a video and a bunch of people were like, Your bands are not quite like David Gilmore the way you've been this. You know it. Yeah, that sound.

That special sound. Gary Clark Jr. sounds. Stevie Ray Vaughan sound. Yeah. The Jimi Hendrix Sound. They're playing some basic shit.

I know how to play all of it. And I know that one of the first things I learned is Texas Flood by Stevie Ray Vaughan.

I know how to play it, but there's got to be a soul in there that requires like decades of playing the same stupid bands and. Yeah, and then also, you know, dating a few questionable women. An alcohol problem, drugs and all of that is in there. Yeah, isn't that interesting that it is in there? Yeah. So that in the same way, jujitsu, in order to do that joke from Mount the Hajir does, there's something in there like he's been through some wars in order to achieve that.

Sure.

Brilliant simplicity, no doubt. Yeah.

It's there's a thing about music, too, that it seems that there's a big difference between doing it and figuring it, you know, like paint, trying to keep track of what the chords are and what the notes are. And someone who knows knows they know. No, they they're deep in it. So there's no wondering whether or not they can play it.

It's just simply an expression of mood in the midst of playing it that you get from like some Stevie Ray Vaughan shit is a good example that he had a very bluesy, moody version of guitar playing, you know, like some of his stuff, like you could you could you could feel like pain in it and you could feel pain and some of some of his course, along with his voice, too.

Right. He had that live hard voice.

But it was is a more of aggressive kind of pain. You feel like a B.B. King. That's more blues. There's this like soulful, like mellow pain and the thrill is gone.

Yeah. Yeah.

And all of it's the same stupid bands. It's all the same music, but they. Yeah. Achieving that.

I mean but the whole point of guitar is to discover music is to discover your own sound.

Did you see that the I mean when you say your own song I'm going to show you something. Do when you say your own sound. Is it a combination of a bunch of other people's sounds that you've kind of put together and adopt as your own sound, is it the classic sounds that you've reworked to become your own? Like what is your own sound as a musician?

I think it's.

Your own, I think, is probably similar to comedy, is your own sound is discovered only once you get technically just good enough to mimic others and then you can just put all the technical bullshit aside and be good enough to try to hear your own voice.

Like what? So when I played the David Gilmore solo for a Comfortably Numb, it doesn't feel like me to me. Does it not feel like you?

Do you? Because you feel like you're imitating somebody or your you're just trying to do the music.

You're not feeling it. Like what do you know what I'm feeling now.

Feeling it. But I feel like I'm visiting a good friend. Like, I feel like it's not home and that's something you develop over time like that, there is a home, there is a something that's a great way of putting it, visiting a good friend.

And and I think the early days, I really want to make clear that because this is embarrassing, I don't I'm not playing guitar enough these days to be impressive. So I don't take it out of your own head.

Get out of your head. I love acoustic music. Did you? I posted when Bill Withers died, I posted Ain't No Sunshine acoustic version.

Yeah, there's a damn God damn that was good. That fuckin acoustic version, you know, I started.

It's so sad when someone dies, you that's when you really get into them. I've been on this crazy Bill Withers kick for the past couple of days since he died. That used me song, God damn, is that a good song? I don't know that one. Oh, I wish we could play it. Yeah, I wish we could play it. God, after the show, I'll play it for you. Fuck, there's so much of his stuff, you know, just like it just makes you want to close your eyes and rock your head back and forth.

You know, it's just and when when a guy dies, you go, oh yeah.

Oh Grandma's hands.

Oh yeah, yeah. Oh, lean on me. Oh shit. You know, that's one of the things that I did.

You know, self isolation now is for the first time in a long time, those still sound weird as I actually like laid in bed and listen to music for, like, just listen. And maybe a lot of people do. I don't usually usually I'm doing something else I actually like laid there for the explicit purpose of just listening. Yeah, this is kind of it's amazing. It's an amazing experience. Yeah.

There's there's some real value in that. Yeah. And we just put music on what we do, other shit like working out and stuff.

You know who's really into that. Just listen to music is Henry Rollins.

You know, when I did the podcast with him, he really did. We do too. We did too. Right. Was wrong on toys. Anyway, maybe I think he was I love him. It's like giant speakers or something. Yes, he has these crazy fucking. Yes, thank you. He's he's got speakers that are worth like a quarter of a million dollars or something preposterous. He's dumped all of his money on the speakers.

You know, he said, I fucking love him. He's so unique. And he he just picks out a record and he treats these records in the creation of these records with reverence. Right. And it's really interesting to me because he's a guy who became famous as a musician and doesn't even do music anymore. He basically does spoken word. He does like his version of, like, kind of stand up. And he's always writing. He's a very inspirational in terms of his work ethic.

He's always writing. He writes constantly for a bunch of different publications weekly. And then he also puts together a radio show every week. So he puts together a playlist and he puts it on the radio and he narrates it and talks through it and and guides people through his musical selections. But he'll just sit there. And I was like listening to him talk about that was one of the first times I've ever actually considered like, oh, yeah, there's like real real value in just sitting down and just listening to music.

And one of the things that worries me about Henry is so he's not married and doesn't have family some while that life seems appealing. I was I'm in danger of going that direction. How old are you?

36. Come on, man, you're fine.

No, but I'm so loved so many things about this world, just like Henry. Right. Right. That it's easy to slip away.

I mean, it's it's a funny thing. It's a because if taken in one way, family and kids and wife is a kind of distraction. There's just one to just yet another passion. In a sea of passions like that, it can often just be a distraction. But at the same time, the ability to share that over a long life to share your passions seems to be like everything I've seen. I don't have the experience right, but everything I've seen it is a profound and addictive.

It's a profound thing to be able to share your passions with others close to you. I guess that is to be family. It is.

It is that. But there's something different on top of that. That's my friend Ray Ray who who goes by. What does he know?

Raghunath Honeysett. Right. His name is Ray Kayapo.

He said something to me once when he was really when we were both really young and more than more than ten years ago or in public when I was training with him by 2013, like 15, 16 years ago, maybe seventeen years ago, somewhere around that range.

But we were younger and he was talking about children and having children and that for him it was there was part of it that was from his own personal edification, like he thought of children as being important for his own, like growth as a human and, you know, raise a deeply spiritual guy as a yoga teacher.

And he's like and I never thought of it that way. I was like, you look at it like your own. And I'm like, OK.

And I think. As a man and in raising these little girls and seeing these daughters grow up in for sure, I've learned a lot about human beings.

But also, I learned a lot myself about my perception of humans, of babies, to people, and I've talked about this on stage briefly, but it's too weird to sort of articulate in a joke.

I used to always think of people as being a static thing, like got see a guy and he's a 55 year old, you know, truck driver. And I would think that guy has always been that guy.

And now I go, oh, you used to be a baby. Like I knew like if you asked me, hey, was this guy ever a baby? I say, well, of course he was a baby, but I had never intellectualized it. I never looked at it.

And it instantly gave me so much more compassion and so much more like acceptance of people with a relaxed acceptance, like a forgiveness of a lot of stupid shit that people do and have done I.

I almost immediately in raising kids, shifted that and thought, how do you guys you just got fucked over, you meet an asshole, you're like, Oh, your dad's probably piece of shit.

And you probably grew up in a terrible neighborhood and you're probably, you know, ruined by your older brothers who are assholes. And maybe you lived in a neighborhood where kids were stealing from you and beaten you up.

Fuck. Like that's how you get to be this guy. You don't get to be this guy because you just choose to be a piece of shit. You know, that's not what happens to people. You you become something from your circumstances. Your genetics are so much involved in who you are.

And we I don't think there's any there's not much value in being mad at someone for who they are.

You know, you could kind of be mad at the impact that it has on your life, their stupidity, and and we're all, you know, justified in doing that. But I think one of the things about having children of your own is you realize when you see someone who's a mess, like, OK, I kind of I kind of see I understand how that can happen now.

It was before I would just be mad that it's there.

It's kind of amazing, though, that a lot of us I mean, at least for me, you remain from the from the self, from the ego perspective, you remain the same person. Like there's a lot of parts of me that it's like sometimes I feel like I'm the same 12 year old kid.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

And especially when there's trauma and that stuff gets stuck. Right. Like it had to Weinstein out. Right. A couple of days ago he just released this unplugging theoretical physics, his geometric unity lecture. Yeah. And that's something he's been holding on for more than 30 years. And there's been a lot of you know, that's something that's been occupying his mind space. He's he's he's just a 20 year old kid releasing this now. That's why it's such a liberating step.

And for a lot of us, it's on the same probably this guitar's the same. Twelve, twelve year old, thirteen year old kid who fell in love with music. And the same the same just goes to everything else.

Like how how do you feel when I'm talking to my mom, I feel like I'm like fifteen. Fifteen. Yeah, for real. You sound different. No sound the same because I always sound like a fifteen year old.

Well played. Hard truth.

I just, I feel like my mom's kid. You know, you talk to her now, it's like they're real worried about this stuff.

They're real worried about coronavirus.

How should the society wide or just individual. She's like literally she's worried about physically, you know, she's a woman in her 70s.

It's just, you know, my stepdad, too. It's like is their feelings are justified. It's dangerous. It's dangerous for them. It's different than it is for us, you know, and even for us, it's not universally going to be OK.

There's there's people that are very young, that have had serious complications and even have died. Guys in their early 30s dead. So, you know, everybody's a little weirded out. But when I talk to my mom, it's I always feel. Like I felt when I lived in the house, you know, I mean, I'm you know, if I don't know if you ever experienced this, but one of the things that I experienced is when I went back home, when I went back to Newton, I grew up in Newton Upper Falls.

When I went back when I was a grown man with a television show, I was on TV.

I feel like a loser. Still felt like a loser. I'd go back to that town and I feel like I felt when I was in high school there, I felt like an outcast and I felt like a weirdo and I felt like a loser.

And so I'd go back there and all sit on couch. I'm a loser.

You're not here. There's like a part of you. I mean, I went back again with my family a few years back and I didn't have that feeling anymore, you know?

And then you were the father that helped, too.

But it's also a lot of thinking, you know, years and years and years of thinking and years of trying to appreciate all the things you've learned and process them correctly.

Do your best to have the best, most balanced perspective on what this all is.

So then when I was going back, I was just really what I was tripping out more than anything is about the concept of memories, you know, because I have this weird database where I can go to this strange part of the planet Earth to this weird patch of land known as Newton Upper Falls.

And I can go. And it was surprisingly rural. That was what was really weird.

I kind of remembered it. But then I didn't really like my my wife grew up in a terrible neighborhood and we went together and she grew up in a really just crime ridden when she was really young.

And so when I took her to where I was like, you grew up easy. Nothing like we're laughing about it.

But it was a lot of fields, a lot like the Charles River was right behind my house. I could go right across the street and hang out in the Charles River, a lot of woods. There was a lot of rural shit there that I kind of forgot about.

But it's a kind of time travel just going back. There it is.

It's also like you're accessing files like I stood in front of my old house and I'm accessing these files.

I'm like, whoa.

And I remember there's stairs that I always does these stairs that lead. I lived next to a place called Echo Bridge. Echo Bridge. It's kind of a famous landmark because you can go under a bridge and yell and Echo Bridge echoes and has this crazy like thing.

So we would get drunk and go in there and sing Billy Squier songs like Lonely Is Nice When You Find Yourself Alone.

That was my, you know, 1980s style high school experience.

But going back there as a grown man, you know, and then.

And a grown man who's at least gained some grasp of perspective, you know, I was in my 40s at the time and wandering around this town, it just was very interesting to to this the concept of memory was very stunning to me.

The concept of accessing all these different moments where I'm thinking about different times in my life. I was in these different areas and different things happen and interacted with people. And I can kind of pull those up.

And it's it's a memory. It's such a strange thing, man.

It's so strange because we all know it's flawed. We all know it's filled with holes. It's it's like a terrible representation of reality.

Like if you bought memory and like if you said, you know, hey, I'm going to get a memory. This guy was he fucking won the Heisman in college and I'm going to download his memories. It should be awesome.

You get that guy's memories like this is nothing. You barely remember anything. You have a slide show and a narrative. You have a weird, blurry slideshow that you can kind of play in the back of your head.

And then you have a narrative of how it all went down.

But that narrative, I mean, it's it's terrible in terms of accuracy, but in terms of its power and influence and your life. Yeah.

Is is oh, undeniable. Undeniable. But, you know, pro and con. Right.

Physical things, which is about is rewriting narratives that that are the cons. Yeah, exactly. Sure. And perspectives about that too. That's where psychedelic drugs come into play with psychedelics.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And yeah. I mean I still feel like a loser when I go back to my parents.

I've become a thirteen and I finally I find myself like defending like basically saying, you know, Mom and dad, I'm not a loser like in my head, like I'm trying to justify or how about these poor people that have to move back in with their parents because they lose their house because of this fucking crisis and maybe lost and lose their dream if they're doing small business.

Yeah.

How many restaurants are going under right now that I mean, it might be it might be more than 50 percent of small businesses got the down and that and I don't think we've felt the pain like this. People are suffering right now quietly.

We haven't seen. It's so weird.

It's such a crazy subject because I could feel the opportunities for people to get outraged at us even talking about it. Yeah.

In this sort of speculative way that we're doing right now, how many people are going to like it's almost like people could think that it's not it doesn't give enough respect to the enormity of the moment because it's so, so scary for all of us when we're all in the middle of the shit right now.

Man, it's fucking crazy.

This is the craziest time I've ever experienced being alive, driving down the streets in L.A. and there's no one on the road, you know, drive to the grocery store.

There's fucking no one out there. There's people headed to hardware stores and grocery stores or gun stores. Well, it just feels. One of the unfortunate things is it feels like we don't know what's happening out there. Yeah, it's new. Well, but here's the good thing.

This is this is one thing that I want to crack home to people. It is not good that all these people are out of work. But look at how much compliance we have when we know we have to work together to save lives. Think about how many people are amazing. Yes. It's not like all these bars, like, fuck, you were open. You know, it's not like people are just flooding the streets. I mean, you had a bunch of young people that are that are having spring break that got in trouble and people were mad at them.

But you got to realize, these are 18 year old people. They don't even have their fucking brains aren't even formed. Their brains are mush.

You know, this is you can't fault them.

You would be doing the exact same thing. We would all be doing the exact same thing. These are children.

But for the adults, like, it's kind of incredible that they shut everything down.

They really did it. Shut down, everybody shut down. You do a few things. You go home and everybody settles.

Does not this mass traveling and constant interaction with people just swarm of interactions that could lead to the spread of a virus? Instead, there's pretty fucking incredible levels of compliance. If you look at the United States overall, you look at this human race, it's stuck on this continent together. Overall, there is a stunning level of compliance that I think is beautiful. I think it's beautiful. I think it's people realizing, OK, it's time to realize that some shit has actually happened and we got to band together and we've got to figure this out.

And you got the usual suspects, conspiracy theories and 5G and fucking they just pulled the David Icke interview. David, I did an interview with London Real.

Yeah, I know what you said. I didn't watch it. I watch a small clip of it. So I'm going to put up I want to see what kind of wackiness he was saying. You know, he's a guy who thinks that all the elites are lizard people.

No, no, I. I never fully investigated that.

He's a conspiracy guy, like a heavy duty, but he's I don't know if he goes into lizard people shit anymore, but he used to think they were like literally like transformers, like they were transforming the lizard people behind closed doors.

Well, YouTube took his video down, which I found very interesting, apparently. London real conversation.

Yes, they deleted it. Yeah, YouTube pulled it. So the question is like. When when it comes to these kind of like there's so many wacky theories that are online about everything, it's craziness, right? About about virtually everything.

At what point in time do these media companies have a responsibility to pull that stuff down? And how do they decide who who? How do they know who's right and who's wrong? I'm not saying he's right. I don't even know what he said. But how do they make the distinction that what he's saying is incorrect and and. There's so much incorrect shit that's online, are you going to pull all that to like? Is it just because it's covid-19?

Because it's global pandemic and we need to make sure that the right information gets out there.

Yeah. So having talked to YouTube engineers and execs, they kind of have this policies. There is this, quote unquote policies. Right.

So you want to remain a science based, fact based.

You want to avoid conspiracy theories and so on, which to me always feels the pulse. And you OK, a lot of people agree with our policy.

Even conspiracy theorists agree with agree with it in the sense that let's remove lies and keep only the truth on their platform.

Yeah, but the point is, how do you how open minded are you to what the truth is? Right.

And let's get to something that's like a universally accepted story.

Well, not universally accepted, but universally recognized for the Kennedy assassination. Universally understood universally and I mean, what I mean is that it's a story that everybody knows and it's the story is questioned almost universal. Here's a better one. Epstein Epstein's killer, that's one. Nobody thinks that that guy hung himself. No one. How about that guy? So if you have various theories or various stories that people come out and talk about with that one.

Yeah. And I just actually yesterday, listen to Eric Weinstein's solo podcast and Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah.

I don't know if you listen to it, he talks about his kind of conspiracy view of it.

I wish I was there when you met him. I would have been fascinating to see because Eric is too smart. He's almost like too smart. He's one of those guys. You talk to him like, oh, you poor bastard.

You're burdened, you're burdened, trying to make sense of the world around apes, you know, and all the trauma of in the like we were talking about, he's still also the thirteen, the 20 year old kid. So he's seeing he had a few run ins with authority, which makes it which makes him suspicious of authority. And I think our life experience defines that. So you can see Epstein in a lot of different ways and how you've experienced.

Yeah, for sure.

Like I mean. But if you were there, I, I could tell you very nice, I can CBD geoglyph on your street, I get, uh.

I know actually quite a lot of people that have met Eppstein. Do, yeah, because you're in the scientific community, right? Yeah, and especially at MIT, it was a big donor. You've tainted a lot of people's reputations by knowing him in a weird way.

Basically, if you took a picture with them, your reputation is tainted. Yeah.

Um, yeah. Whether you knew him or not.

But I think I, I do think that outside of conspiracy theories that he was an exceptionally charming person.

So he was good. You know, that charming people. You charming people. Yeah.

I don't mean to make it sound. Yeah, I know. Positive or negative. It is. What it is, is the devil is going to be charming so.

Right. Right.

And the other thing is he genuinely showed curiosity. Towards scientific ideas, even out there, big scientific what do you think that was, though? Have you ever thought about that?

Do you think that it's possible that look, I mean, if you just look at it from the perspective of is it the big theory?

The big theory, right.

Is that he's some sort of a intelligence operative, right? Yes. So he's an intelligence operative.

But don't you think it's part of his job to try to infiltrate the scientific communities? I mean, there must have been a directive if he really is an intelligence operative, it's not like they're like, hey, go pursue your interest.

Hey, I hear you have really big love of science. Just feel free to do that on the side. Now, what the fuck was he doing?

If he's an intelligence operative, what is the intelligence having sex with underage girls? It can't be that.

Well, the idea that Eric pushes forward, by the way, I'm talking to him on the podcast I do tomorrow, which is why I'm talking about him a lot. So I've been preparing for like a three hour conversation with Eric Weinstein, which will kill me. Have you met him before?

Yeah, I did. I did a podcast. OK. And I've met him and I hung out with him and you and the others. That's right. That's right. But it's always an overwhelmingly intense experience intellectually.

So and in the podcast form, you have to call people out in their bullshit, which is very hard to do with their then.

Yeah, that that theory I checked out ten minutes into that theory of the game and I tried to go back to it and listen to it again.

I'm like, wow, he was talking. I'm like, OK, I'm so far behind here of what he's I'm just going to like try to keep up but recognize that I'm not going to and then go back and then listen to it again.

Well, he hates putting stuff into words simply. Yeah. He's like allergic to saying simple stuff because it's not beautiful and witty. So he always like drenches everything and humor and wit and it's like beautiful language.

Well, he talks to the initiated he when when he's describing complex things, he describes them to people that understand complex things.

But it's also I mean, this is a criticism I have this one I'm going to nail tomorrow and always tell him, is he almost. He hates explaining the basics of something he just skips ahead, right, even for the initiated. It's nice to go to the basics to explain like what are the ground we're standing on. He skips right into the depth of things, which is beautiful, but sometimes requires you listen again.

He's too smart, you know, with apes like me.

But he and I have seen he thinks that, yeah, his arm, it's possible that Epstein is saying what was the term use of the intelligence community is an operative operative of the intelligence community.

But the pedophile thing is a mess up on the part of the intelligence.

So they didn't know they didn't. Was that, you know so.

Well, it could it could also be that he felt like he'd get me. Remember, when this is all started out, when he started out doing that, it was all before social media.

Right. So he probably thought that he had this incredible amount of power because of the fact that he was connected by the intelligence community. If he was, he probably thought he could get away with it.

Makes you wonder of all the horrible things that happen in this world before social media, before the spread of information was craziness.

Great. Just just sheer craziness, you know? But I think it's like about the Catholic Church and they just still might be going on. Right.

It's 100 percent going on as, hey, guys, the fucking needs to stop fucking kids. Now, they're still getting away with it somehow or another. You know, the Vatican is still its own country. You know that, right? So it's sort of recognized as a country.

They have their own laws. They don't extradite people. So there's a bunch of sex criminals that live in the Vatican. And there was a recent thing with Australia where they they acquitted some believe it was a cardinal that was accused of sex crimes with children. It's awful, man.

The idea that that one church is so connected to that, like there's not another church, you go, oh, kid fuckers, Catholic Church kid fuckers, they like that. They go hand in hand.

You don't there's nothing like that with like Mormons. There's nothing like that with Presbyterians. But the Catholic Church is like inextricably connected to child molesters. That is fucking crazy.

And that we all know that they have shielded these people and move these people around. There's been horrendous documentaries. So if you watch them, your jaw drops. You can't believe. Did you ever hear no evil?

You was watch that documentary.

That's not the one where The Boston Globe I don't know, the one that won the Oscar. I don't know if that was the documentary. Sorry. Yeah, it's a documentary. Yeah. Yeah. No, it was it was all about this. Well there's a bunch of them. I mean I don't even want to get into depth about it because I get disgusted. There's quite a few documentaries about sex crimes in the Catholic Church and one of them, one of the more horrendous crimes involved that guy Ratzinger that they had to kick out as a pope.

You know, that guy was personally responsible for moving a priest who was molesting kids, moved him to a new place where he molested a hundred deaf kids.

Yeah, just imagine just imagine that you you could be that that person can exist inside the structure of the Catholic religion or the Catholic Church, and that doesn't mean they're all like that. I mean, I'm sure there's a large amount of beautiful people that are involved in the Catholic Church. You know, there's probably a large amount of people that really only want to do the work of God and become a better person, and that's why they're in it. But.

You also can't deny that this is a thing that exists even in 2020, this is still an issue. That's crazy, man. And one of those issues, just like influenza that we kind of. We've accepted as a thing that yes, because it's not new. Yes, yes, what is that?

That's so weird. That's so true. What you just said. You just nailed it. Yeah, it's just and there's all kinds of other types of suffering that we that's just in the background malaria. Yeah, yeah.

All the problems that only Bill Gates worries.

Well, everybody apparently people that were at his were you at his 2015 speech when you were talking about it? I listened to that speech.

No, I have not. He's he's like spot on predicting everything. Really? Yeah. I mean, and he's still right.

Forget coronavirus. I mean, basically the thing the thing in this century that's likely to kill 500 million people is natural pandemics. Yeah.

I mean, this is what we're going through now is nothing sort of like World War Two, for example, like the stories, just thinking like learning more about my grandfather, what was going through Russia and Europe.

We take for granted now that we can go to the grocery store. We still have food. We were kind of talking about it, but I imagine there's no food that's hopeful that that's it.

Yeah, that you're starving. Some millions of people are going to die from it. Imagine what you're going to do for your family. If there's no food, especially since World War Two had the nice, the horrible but the nice property, that there was an enemy, but one with the coronavirus, the enemies, other people. Yeah, yeah. And that one things get really bad. Not coronaviruses shouldn't say that because that's not going to get bad.

But a natural pandemic, it's it can do, it can wreck. I mean, he can destroy societies in ways we can't imagine. Bill Gates was basically in his very polite nerd way, saying that we should really be worried about what should really be investing in a huge infrastructure for vaccine development, for testing all those kinds of things.

You know, I think because of his charities, you know, he's sort of looked into it a lot deeper than a lot of other folks have. And because he has an infinite amount of time and money, he's probably sitting around thinking like, well is how come people aren't looking at that?

Hey, do you think he's ever done psychedelics?

Finally, yes, yes, I mean, so many people of his era, did you know it was a big part of Steve Jobs and his his revelations, although I think he probably should've done more of Steve Jobs and.

I was in a little bit nicer here.

That intensity, that passion is what fuels great engineering. So it does.

That's the problem. Right? It's like something that great. You almost have to have that maniacal vision behind it. What do you want, a nice guy or an iPhone?

I think you I think you were that. That's a great meme.

That's a great meme. Steve Jobs, like looking looking angry, says, what do you want, a nice guy or an iPhone? Bill Gates wants coyly defended LSD use by saying, I never missed a day of work.

Oh, there you go. Yeah, of course he did it. Yeah, of course he did it. They all tried it back then. Why wouldn't they? You know.

Yeah, I think he got a little beef with Elon about about I think he said that the Tesla. He said something bad about Tesla. No, no, no, no.

He was actually defending he was talking good about tycoons, about Porsche tycoons. And Elon said he's very unimpressed with him.

But you reminded me with me, somebody replied with a meme of not a meme, a real video of Bill Gates jumping over a chair.

And they said, I don't know, I find him impressive. And Elon said, yeah, that's pretty impressive.

I I love when tech CEOs of major companies have the I can be silly like that.

Elon is very silly. I love it. He responds to people on Twitter. He gets silly. He's having fun, having a good time. This is Bill Gates jumping over a chair. That's a pretty good jump for a nerd. Not bad. What did you mean for nerd? I hate that word, by the way. I love nerd. Yeah, it's a good word. But you don't use it.

You don't mean. I don't mean it in a positive way. Yeah. Yes, I do. OK, I mean, I do often. You do often.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean a guy who like is wearing glasses with a fucking sweater with a collared shirt underneath. It looks like a nerd. So you use it positively in that.

I mean silly kind of way. But you don't think of a nerd as somebody as an ideal of a man or an idiot like, oh, there's nothing wrong with nerds.

No, I just want my my perspective is never like that. Look, I'm a nerd about a lot of things.

I mean, you're saying that I'm a nerd about it for sure. No, I totally I guess what I'm speaking to and that's relevant for our time is that science is not admired in ways because they've seen the alternative expression Soviet Union. The way people admire scientists is the way they admire great athletes, great, great creators of all kinds. And nerds sometimes diminishes that in ways.

That it seems like a peculiar quirk of a human being, just like it connects it to like, you know, going to Comic-Con conventions kind of nerd versus a different that's a dork, the dork.

Yeah. So what Comic-Con dork?

I think we've gone over this recently. Dork is rarely positive. Dorf is good if it's self-deprecating. Kosoff a dork.

I'm such a fucking dork. But it's very rare. The dork is positive, whereas nerd is often positive. Nerd is our guy.

He's a science nerd. Heavy, heavy science nerd.

Like that's that's just a fun way of saying someone's really smart about a certain thing.

But I know what you're saying.

Yeah, but I don't think the way around that is to eliminate words or even stop using certain words. I think the way around that is just to appreciate people that are really great at science. Yeah, that's the way around that. It's the words don't really matter. It's perceptions that matter. And I don't think necessarily that science has a bad perception. It just doesn't have a glamorous enough perception. How many people can name Oscar winners that are just really good at lying?

They're just really good pretenders and we can name them.

But how many people can name Nobel Prize winners in science is very few.

Right, exactly. And I guess the thing I was also speaking to and definitely keep using the word I mean, it doesn't oh, I'm going to preventing words is I don't let nerds tell me what to do and to see.

There you go. No, the the thing. So that's actually the point I was trying to make. It wasn't the is nerd is synonymous with week that I always hated as a person who loves fighting.

Like, I like the I like I like the fact that people are complimenting sort of the the pursuit of your scientific curiosity, that is great.

But I just never liked it's a thing I've experienced in this country is nerd as an image is seen as weakness as a kid gets picked on.

And I always, always annoyed me because to me, intelligence and nerds annoyed me. Nerds annoy me because they like, lean into it, like most people I know are kind of like don't work out much for it and they kind of lean into that idea.

Do you think they lean into that because they were bullied by people who work out a lot? So they think of those people work out is like, I don't want to get into their thing. Those people suck. They were always mean to me. Yeah, something like that.

And you kind of create a narrative where, like jujitsu or fighting, it's like a brute thing, just like you talked about with Greek statues having small penises. You say all those barbarians with their big penises. Yeah, that's what he telling me.

This is the professor is giving us the tour was telling me, I think you can be a noble person and have a big penis.

So is it a humble brag that it was an analogy to let people know it's all right? No, I agree with you, but that's what people listen to this.

That's what people don't want, right? You don't want a guy with a bigger dick than you. That's smart. That's like the same thing. You don't want a guy or a woman or a guy. You don't want a woman who's hot and smart. You know, it's like when people think of really beautiful women, they automatically assume that woman's dumb. And oftentimes that is not the case. Sometimes people just have awesome bone structure.

And if they, you know, stimulated themselves and mentally, if they pursued things, if they had an interest in certain scientific or, you know, esoteric ideas and you underestimated them, you would be you'd feel really humiliated for super smart, but super hot girl put you in your place.

Well, you know, not only am I hot, but I'm fucking smarter than you stupid like that to men don't ever want to think that.

They almost always love to assume that someone who is pretty is dumb. Yeah, I love it. I love seeing. Like, I love seeing women who dress up like like pretty like sexually, they're not trying to and are also brilliant. Yeah, it's a it's like an effort to society that I can be both things.

Listen, man, women like dressing like that. We're different, you know, for us to try to imagine why they like doing it while they're trying to look sexually attractive.

Yes, for sure. Well, why are they trying to do that? They actually like it, too. They like dressing like that.

If we if I often wonder, like, if if women were into us dressing like women, like how many how many people would do it if that became a new thing. Like girls really want to fuck guys who wore skirts.

It's not a big deal in Scotland. That's a kilt. It's a different thing, different, you know, like a mini skirt. I'm like like fucking the hot little latex, Jammey, to, you know, hugs your curves. I think you see some dudes in legal legs to do that.

That would be like this.

Maybe not a lot of people wouldn't maybe they wouldn't not know if you had to live there like and you have to shave your legs. So maybe that would be the end. But it depends.

Why do girls do it? And I don't know, by the way, how many people find out what their woman really looks like now. They can't do their eyelashes.

They can that eyebrows. They can't do their hair. They can't do their nails.

Oh, well, your haircut is the right haircut.

Oh, this is what everybody should get. Yeah, I wish I did it when I was younger. Well, it's liberating. Yes. From the moment I did. And I was like, of course, God damn it.

Especially for someone that's losing their hair. Look, please just shave your fucking head and just accept it. If you got a weird shaped head, that's you. OK, accept it. And I'm not going to do any better with some weird hair hanging off the back of it. I'm growing it out. You should. Yeah. A beautiful head of hair. Look at it so thick. It's like a brush. Yeah. You use your hair to brush other people's hair.

Thanks for the idea. But yeah, the fact that the barber barbers are all closed, I mean all of these little aspects of society just kind of.

Yeah, it's kicking in.

It's it's like I'm hoping things restart and normalize. You know, I'm hoping the economists can figure out some sort of a stimulus package to get things rolling again. I hope we have the resources. It's I'm hopeful and I'm also hopeful that the positive aspects of it will stick. This is my perspective.

The kiddo that's pretty good for this is I've been enjoying it. Well, I don't know. I feel like I can not eat for long periods of time. Oh, yeah. Like fasting, I guess. Yeah. And but it does. I mean, I like it. You're not.

So you lack the discipline to just think, you know, I just saw your Instagram post today.

Well, I was very rarely Keadle. I did Carnivore though. That was my favorite diet. Yeah. So I'm still doing Carnivore just eating.

But I just decided while this is all going on, if we might have an issue with food, I'm not going to be picky. I'm just going to eat for sure. That's just my perspective during this thing. Once everything normalizes, if and if and when that happens, I'm going to go back to Carnivore. I think, like, right now I'm my I'm just going to eat. I'm going to worry about that. Just going to be thankful that I have food.

Yeah.

Carnivore is amazing. It's great for. I've been running longer and longer distances, I did you know David Goggins.

Yeah, I wanted to talk to you about that. Tell everybody what you did because it's crazy.

You ran four miles every day or every hour. Four hours. Every four hours.

Yeah. It's not it's not that crazy. It's crazy for me. I'm not a runner says 40 miles over a period of 48 hours.

Two days. The mileage is not that crazy because I was doing like a nine and ten minute mile.

So it's not you know, I'm just running Old Lady Pace a lot of time that the time is in the mind. The the thing that really pushed me and. Okay.

I decided to do after each time to record myself saying something that I'm grateful for, which is a stupid fucking idea.

Why know? It's a beautiful idea.

But the recording part because I hated life and I hated everything like halfway through like so I had to be positive when I'm recording myself.

So you could only sleep for a couple hours at a time, a couple hours at a time when you tired all the time like that where I wasn't tired, I was like hi.

I was like unsure what's happening.

Delirious because your body is exhausted in a way that's like like after a good workout, but it continues going farther and farther into that direction. Runner's high, right? Yeah, it's it's a high, but there's an exhaustion too. And it was I was a carnivore.

I was hungry, but also overeating, like for some reason really wanted to fall off and roasted chicken.

So I won one of the runs. I ran by the grocery store, picked up over roasted chicken and just ate the whole thing.

And then just the whole just the whole experience just is a mind test.

You're burning off an insane amount of calories running for miles every four or four miles every four hours.

Not that insane. I would say it's probably the whole thing's probably, I don't know, ten thousand calories. So over two days, it's not too crazy.

Yeah, but you're basically running a marathon a day. Yeah, that's crazy for two days. Yeah, that's crazy deals, why are you trying to downplay it? No, I was it was great. I mean, the whole thing was crazy. But I think, Jamie, I'm I'm wrong here, right?

It's in the middle. But I understand what he's saying also because you get a little break for for Miles isn't the longest around. That's like a five K. You can get it done in less than an hour. It's 45 minutes. If that's even long. If you're going at his pace, is that what you're doing?

About forty five minutes. Forty five. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes I would stop like it's cool. You get pretty far out an audio book but the sleep thing was, was crazy. I think the only reason I did it, which is a good lesson, is I saw Gorgons posted on Instagram. And I announced on social media that I'm going to do it because the only reason I did it, I mean, it's a good thing to it's nice it's nice to just announce that you can go because then you feel like such you're accountable.

Yeah.

So, I mean, I thought maybe I can just delete the tweet that just walked by.

I was great about our sober October challenges. You have to do it. You know, the first one was so easy. The yoga one was just 15 hot yoga in a month as a yoga every other day.

Not that big a deal, but seemed like it was hanging over your head. But that's nothing compared to what you did.

Well, the nice thing also, David Goggins on his Instagram went live every four hours or so every four hours beforehand.

I'm just like sitting here watching this crazy shirtless man, like, screaming hard.

Yes, of course, he was making it seem like it's going to be easy.

And let me kind of walk it back. Like the gratitude thing was the filming was hard and but it's actually a really cool experience. So before the run, I wrote down 12 things I'm really grateful for, like family, like family, friends, my childhood like and I and as I ran, I thought about it like what I'm going to say. And that thinking is weird.

It was all for doing, like, recording myself. Right. But the result was like pretty profound for myself as an experience. It's kind of similar with podcasts like you. And I wouldn't have this conversation without microphones.

Right. Right. Especially we wouldn't have it this long, this long sitting across from each other.

Yeah, but recording yourself was like, I really have to now think that I'm thankful for my family and things like really put that to mine. That was yeah. That was big. And and also just by the way, if people are thinking about that for you, because there's so many people messaged me about the challenge, if you're thinking of doing it, please don't do it because I don't listen to him.

I think I think just running forty miles is a better challenge because this was torture.

So if you OK, just OK, people are thinking of doing it, realized that you're not doing a test of run.

It's not a running test. It's not a marathon test. It's a test of. It's it's a mental test of how much. You want to do something really stupid, I guess it's a marathon, but like the you have so much more time to think about how stupid the thing you're doing is. That makes it a really big mental challenge.

Would you if you had the option halfway into it, to just finish the run, just keep going until it's over 100 percent, really?

Oh, just just so you think it might have been more torture to do it with those brakes and the rest in the food and relaxing for a little bit?

Yeah, yeah. That hangs over your head. It hangs over your head. The fact that you have to wake up in three hours and like.

So I never slept in my bed. I just laid facedown on the on the carpeted floor.

Did you substitute those runs for Jiu-Jitsu? I was. I substituted one of them for jujitsu. But at the end I ran eight miles because I thought it was all a cop out.

That's how I did jujitsu. I felt so jujitsu. I did shout out to Broadway jujitsu.

They're all closed now. Yeah.

Jujitsu gyms going to be a while before they open up again. Right.

And I hope it doesn't they don't close like I know, man.

It's just so many people are going to be freaked out by germs. Yeah, but I, um. So it feels weird to talk about, but yeah. I felt really, really good. When did you do this.

Pretty close to this whole outbreak maybe a month ago to a month and a half ago, yeah, it was like February then.

Yeah, February and February ish. Yeah. And I actually gave a big talk to a large audience in Philadelphia, like a March 8th or something like that.

Like I was in Vegas for the UFC that weekend. That was the last weekend I traveled. So I guess it was March 7th.

That might be the last time. It's not weird. Like what was the last time you did stand up comic that week?

I did I did some shows, the Improv and. And then I was supposed to do some shows, the Comedy Store and we were talking about it and they said it's to the room's too big because they were limiting the crowds down to 200 people. That was the first thing they did. So they were going to move the crowd.

They were going to move my show to another date and then open up the original room, which is a small room of 150 people. And they were asking me if I wanted to go in there or if I wanted to just cancel and reschedule. We were working all that out and then they contacted us and they were asking me and a bunch of other comics like, what do you think we should do here?

You know, because there's part of us that thinks we should just shut down and they shut down before the order was given to shut down. They decided this is, you know, the Comedy Store doesn't want anybody get sick.

And they were worried about people losing income. But they were also saying, like, this is probably the right idea to just shut down. And then the improv shut down shortly after, but they all shut down before they were required to. They just shut down because it just seemed like the walls are closing in.

But did you realize at that time this might be the last time? Man, because it might be. I am I don't want to say anything, but it might be a long time before you do standup comedy.

What do you think? Another six months? I think is OK. Here's what I think right now, I think it would be longer than six months for sure. Really? Why do you think that?

Because gathering's a large group. I am hoping I there'll be a lot of interesting innovations of world gatherings, of large groups will look like, OK, I can see you doing stand up to a small audience that's tuned in. Like people remotely tuned in a larger scale, what, like something like a lion can't do it? No, not online.

Only because you have to do online, period. Because people record it and record it. So you work on your new stuff, so you always stand up comedy is like assholes.

No, they're not. They're very good, which is one of the reasons why most sets don't get leaked. You know, when they leaked the Louis C.K. set, it's like almost understandable, especially just long live. Yeah.

Yeah, sure. You can get it. I, I've watched all of it and watched half of it.

I'm weird. So I didn't know it was weird to watch because it's good, it's intense. Like his other specials. Right.

And he talked about pedophilia and everything, but it feels weird to see a crowd, to listen to it, to see a crowd and to listen to a comedian in this time, not mention coronavirus.

So like I did, I it made me realize that I have a hunger, as probably a lot of people to hear, like a comedian talk about, like we want to see standup comedy about the virus.

Mm hmm. Yeah. I guess a podcast is a kind of replacement, but like because we're we want some normalcy.

Right. And we're all alone with our thoughts and our paranoia. And then news media, which in many cases is accelerating our anxiety because there's value in developing stories and writing stories that get people outraged or click bait, you know, so there's that.

And we need people just talking, just talking to just people that are just like you talking about stuff, various walks of life that's that helps us.

This is certainly community that we're all a part of, you know, and I feel very connected to that now, you know, because this podcast is it's kind of taken on a different form over the last few years, which is one of the reasons why I actually have to address people talking about politics and me and like you guys are out of your fucking mind if you're listening to me.

But I have to accept that that this is part of the new form that this thing is taken.

And another form this taken this this thing is taken is that it's sort of like an electronic campfire in a lot of ways. You know, there's there's a great value to people just sitting around shooting the shit. And I know there's a lot of people at home that can't you're not chiming in. You wish you would you would probably have some things to say. It's one of things, one of the reasons why comments get so aggressive sometimes because people are listening.

They have something to say and they can't. You just keep talking and they're like, fuck.

And they're like, maybe you should fuck your Gerst or maybe maybe you should.

But it's really they they have a thing in them that they want to express to like you're talking. They have some interesting shit to say to and a lot of them do.

Yeah. By the way, on that point, I know you don't check comments, but I'm actually I kind of enjoy checking, especially yours. Like I'm a fan one one. I'm a fan of yours. I like being a fan of cool people. And I'll just go on your Instagram, just comment and there'll be some there's always some percentage of people who are who who are so shitty.

But most of them. That's where I disagree with you. I think most of them are really cool.

Yes, I think so too. No, I think so too.

But also there's this I think most people, not most, but there's a big percentage of the population who just enjoy being shitty, but they also enjoy being nice sometimes.

Yeah. Because they're not being shitty for real. They're just shit posting. Yeah.

So as long as you're able to inspire them to be nice or at least more because because shit posting Dunwell has a humor behind it.

Yeah. Love and respect behind it.

That's kind of obvious. Yes. Look one person has to take the hit you or me or whoever it is are they're shitting on if they're saying something funny and one person takes the hit. But a thousand people reading those comments go by. That's so true.

Hey, man, I get it. I'm not trying to stop anybody from commenting. You know, there was a time where the comments were blocked off because the streaming didn't allow comments because we didn't have a chat in the streaming video chat and streaming. It devolves into racial slurs and and ethnic slurs and anti-Semitic slurs.

It's fucking chaos sometimes because people just want to see if you're reading that while you're talking, they want you to react so they'll write some horrible shit just so that you react sometimes. So we can't have that. I'm not going to read that.

So I might just shut off the chat. Let's just stream the show live. But then we were uploading it. Comments were shut off because of some sort of a flaw in the way it was processed. So you had to have the chat on for comments to be on or something like that.

But they fixed that. But I was I really wanted people to know, like, if you want to talk about what we're talking about, I want you to be able to I can't read because I don't have the time. And it's I don't think it's healthy.

Like, it's not it's like does something bad to your mind. But I feel like that's a technology problem because my dream would be for somebody like you to be able to read.

Comments every once in a while in a way that is healthy. No, I could. I could. That's not the problem. The problem is for me personally, there is so little time to just process life that any time that I spend trying to rationalize or trying to accept or trying to process someone's comments, like there's not enough time for that. I want to I would love to do I, I try very hard, do my best. That's what I try to do with everything.

And with this podcast, I try to do my best. And I know sometimes I talk too much or I talk too much or I stumble through my words or I'm overbearing or this or that or yeah, it's a balancing act like sometimes you stumble, it's weird. It's all live. You know, everything I'm doing is live with no script that millions of people get to see and listen to.

How do you get that signal, though?

So one of the things I enjoy before I block them is people who criticize like who are truly rude but would enjoy that.

Oh, no, no, I don't enjoy it. But I think it's constructive in the sense that within the rudeness, there's often like an opportunity to improve.

Often, not often. Oh, so you're saying they're rude, but they have a valid, valid point because I find that rude people are more likely, like I'm so fortunate to be part of the community who are really nice to me and just in general, nice.

I find that they're unable to tell me sort of constructive criticisms in the fall, like like if I mumble or if I'm not articulate with my ideas or if I am if I use a certain word too much or if I'm too stuck in a certain kind of perspective, you need to ask her to come along to call you like a liberal douchebag.

Yes. Well, that's what friends are for. You know, friends are for busting balls. I mean, that's one of the things about comedians that a lot of people had a hard time when we started doing podcasts. One of the things that a lot of people had a hard time with was how mean we are to each other, like me and Brian Cowan and Eddie Bravo and Brendan Schwab. And we start goofing on each other or other comics who come in here and goof on each other.

When we goof and each other, we goof on each other hard, you know, but but there's fun in that. Like, we all enjoy it, like comedians to each other.

Some of the fucking meanest people ever. Like when no one's around, we see some of the fucking group chats I'm in where people shitting on each other. It is hilarious.

It's so mean, but really fucking funny. And we also do that as an exercise because it causes you to other people's insults and to that like there's it's a thing that men do to each other. They shit on each other, first of all, to keep each other in check. And they expect you to do that to them, but also to kind of toughen you to people that don't love you. They're going to talk shit, you're used to it.

You know, look, if you grow up in a place like, you know, that is filled with people that are always drunk and it's cold out, like Boston, people talk a lot of shit, talk a lot of shit to each other.

That's one of the reasons why so many great comics came out of Boston, because it's fucking cold and people don't have time for your bullshit.

And because of that, because of that lack of attention span or short attention span, like you, you learn how to come out of the gate fast and you learn how to appreciate people's time.

And it's a too shallow. Isn't that weird for you? But as it's funny because people like I love most of them closest with, you know, talk a lot of shit, but like, you have to earn that, right?

Yes. It's funny. Like people some people walk into my life talking like like Rostami and it's like, well, we're not there yet. We're right. Right, right. It's an interesting kind of.

Well, you have to know that they love you. You know that that has to be underlying it all. By the way, I do think you guys are too rough on Callan's.

I'm just I'm just a fan who showed up to in something that he loves, that he gets such a kick out of it. He he brings it on himself.

But by the way, he has the thickest skin of any fucking human I've ever met in my life. Never in all my years of knowing that guy. I've known Cal for twenty five years. Twenty five fucking years.

Never have I seen him get upset at someone mocking him or insulting him, getting legitimately insulted by it. I've never seen him. Never. It just goes like this. Throwing bounces off like rhino skin like he did.

Like literally loses zero enthusiasm. I mean, and it's not that he's not an introspective guy, it's not he's not an objective guy.

He has a unique ability to handle insults and he'll even rebroadcast those like his friends are shitting on him.

He'll be like, can you believe these guys are openly disrespecting my age?

And my looks, it's he he it doesn't bother him. He's got a great perspective. He's a very unique guy. Brian Cowan. Very, very unique.

I don't know anyone like him. So the the silly song I have is made by him. Actually, it is. Yeah, not kind of. I talked to him. I texted him back and forth, but he uses words, whatever else you want to do.

This silly song. First, let me do this. All right. We come or so. So we were like some sage. And I also have a question for you. A big one.

You gonna go to the question first? No, no, no, no. You leave me anticipation.

Now, I get to ask you some about Trump. Oh, really? Yeah.

Demons on. See, Duncan Trussell is. Speaker Dean has begun with the mask thing, he wore a mask. Oh, yeah, it was early on that. Well, he also wore ghillie suit, so let's not get carried away.

OK, so my voice is terrible. This is more like a poem.

Don't get in your own head, man. Let it go. My granddad was a soldier. On the front in 41. Took his brother's. But stubborn like Don. The sky was filled with fire. Millions lost, fleeing hate and love for all their. In a world now with the same. Some days will sink in sadness in the way of them to tell. Don't lose yourself to that. By the way, how is LA? When the New York Towers crumble, we were all New Yorkers to.

Our Momi, all just human. Not the same old red or blue. The weekend go on scheming. But the heart longs for freedom. So far, they'll never take. Some days will sink and sadness. Don't lose yourself to madness. The way out is. The virus took a comfort it was never ours own. This life is so damn fragile. A leaf caught by the wind, but every breath, it's tragic. The Knights hope with the.

Some days will sink in certain. The way of them to tell. Don't lose yourself to madness. The way out is the. Lex Friedman, ladies and gentlemen, when is the album coming out? No album ever. What made you decide to want to come in front of millions of people and sing a song?

I don't know. I just had thought. I'm thinking about mix it up. Mix it up, a challenge like that for miles every well, OK, I'll tell you what, it's kind of a challenge to share and it's the scariest thing ever. But I also want it to be because I kept thinking about for the last time I came on, I really wanted to play Hendrix and actually had my guitar and I chickened out. So I thought, OK, because it's actually technically really difficult to play in front of a lot of, you know, because you're not going to let me, like, try a few times.

Right? Right. I have to do it, like, without any mistakes and. What happens if you try to play Hendrix, Hendrix on acoustic guitar is really tough to play because it's it doesn't have it's easier to play Voodoo Child with distortion because you can mess up and you can. It's also a nice blues scale. So you can let it ring. You can just jam. You can go Gary Clark Jr mode. Mm hmm. But with acoustic, every mess up has a like has like its silence after.

So acoustic doesn't ring for a long time. When you play individual notes it dies quickly so you can hear mess ups really easily. So. And so I knew if I mess up it's going to just sound bad. And I knew I would freak out and so on.

So I just went, I just thought to do I thought to try to do something where you can't where I just strum chords, where I can't screw it up at all.

So and then the virus thing just made me think. Guy, I was talking to my dad a lot about my grandfather and just brought it, it made it so real to me because I studied World War Two a lot, especially the Holocaust and all that.

But like the fact that just learning about my grandfather just made it so real to me, it kind of connected everything together. Plus, there's a book I recommend people read is by Albert Camus called The Plague. That he wrote right after World War Two is I don't know if you know, if he is he's like an existentialist philosopher. Existentialists believe that, you know, you have to live like life is absurd. Life is life is suffering, and there's no meaning to it all.

You just have to live the moment and take take each moment as it comes and live it to the fullest kind of kind of idea. So he described his town that got overtaken by the plague in the book, The Plague and. That kind of similar to bubonic plague, basically similar characteristics, and writes about how everybody reacts in different ways. The main character is a doctor who basically sees the absurdity of the suffering around him, that there's no meaning to it all.

That's the thing about the virus, like the Nazis. And with wars, there's an enemy you can kind of trace back and understand what was happening. The virus, it just seems like it comes out of nowhere, you know, and it breaks the spine of the way we think of regular life. Like some people try to cling on to regular life as if nothing is happening, which, by the way, it's kind of like what a lot of our society is doing right now.

We're not yet. We haven't really felt the pain yet, and hopefully what? But there's this kind of dull, the calm before the storm kind of period, and then some people become like more religious, they start to search for the bigger meaning of life outside of the material possessions. And then the doctor represents the idea that no matter what he he gives themselves fully to his to his craft of helping other human beings. And overall, there's a story that.

This idea that suffering is just part of life and the only way there's a natural temptation when there's cruelty and suffering all around you to isolate yourself.

Add to to withdraw from life, because anything you do in life is going to lead to suffering, you know, dating, like if you get married, it's going to lead to suffering because eventually you're going to lose the people you love. So there's a natural desire to withdraw. But in fact, what he found the doctor and what he saw around him is that love and compassion, like giving yourself fully to the love of other human beings and towards community, is the only way to deal with that kind of suffering.

So to me, it's a really profound story about. Like about love. Being the right response in a time of crisis, crisis and a crisis that hits everybody that you want to kind of hide from it, but it actually where more suffering happens.

So it's a kind of profound book that I recommend. We got to I recommend people read. Most people have read like in him in high school for this book called The Stranger, but that one in particular seems so connected to. Oh, so he wrote in an allegory for World War Two. So the plague in that case is the Nazis. Hmm. That it just hits out of nowhere. And his book is really popular, I think in 1947, he wrote it because, you know, as a kind of allegory of World War two, a way to talk about these, the virus that first infects the rats and then infects the weaker humans, then affects everybody.

It was a connection and an al an analogy to the the Nazis. And so I saw the connection between now and and the Nazis. Of course, the scale there with World War Two was much more intense. And and finally, just how fragile this whole damn thing is like that. My grandfather had probably single digit percentage chance of living. You know, like most people died, most soldiers died in especially in those early years of 1941 when the Nazis I think basically Stalin was using Russian soldiers and just human beings as human shields.

But, yeah, just throw bodies at the problem, so the fact that my dad, my grandfather survived seems crazy like and I do all these things, I'm here. Talking to you wearing a stupid tie like all of that is connected to, like he somehow survived all those look ripple effects me doing research, you know, I hope to impact, like, billions of people one day, you know, those like a little ripple effects. How fortunate I am to be part of that.

And it just all seemed to be connected to me. So you have to go back before him, right?

I mean, yes, he is here because someone won a fight with Iraq.

You know, some some time in history, there was probably one of his ancestors that club someone to death of the Rock who was breaking into his house and not that many humans.

And as you put it, not that many humans go, yeah, not that many. You know, if you go like let's think. I mean, they're constantly pushing back the age of the old Asuman. They recently pushed it back even further.

See what that study said? The age of the oldest human. They bumped back another half a million years or so. I think it was I think they're talking about Australia, Pythagoras and another ancient human all lived together at the same time. There's quite a few quite a few different styles of human that that lived together at the same time.

But at that time. Sorry to interrupt, but at that time, along with humans, lived millions of viruses. Oh yeah, of course. Yeah.

So they they too not not to give any shout outs to viruses but they to survive because their grandparents have clubbed somebody over the head.

Well Bill Hicks called people virus with shoes. You know, he was joking around obviously. But that's the truth.

There's something to that in that.

What is what is if you stop and think if you were a cow or a carrot or tomato plant or avocados or chickens or think of the things we fucking consume and think of the living things that we pull out of the ground and shove into our bodies and consume.

Now think of that was something else thing of that was, you know, if there was. A population of animals like tuna that just got wiped out by something the way we wiped them out, you go, whoa, like, oh yeah, there's a tuna virus and it's literally killed 80 percent of all the tuna in the ocean.

We're down to like 20 percent capacity in tuna, like, fuck, man, what happened?

Yeah, it's called sushi. It's called people. It's this virus with boats literally goes hundreds of miles out into sea with these giant fucking fiber nets that it's created. And it sucks these things into the nets and pulls them out with giant cranes and dumped them into a refrigerated hull and then brings them back to shore to get cut up and sold like fuck man.

But at the same time, it's it's tuna is delicious. Not that. But also if you zoom out, it's kind of beautiful. The the the way that life propagates is just beautiful. So I've been reading a lot on viruses and the way they work is incredible. It's I would say viruses. There's obviously debate on whether they're living or not. It's just definitional. But they're like the simplest example of the beauty and power of the evolutionary process.

It's because, like, we humans are kind of complicated in terms of killing tuna. It's like there's a lot of things going on in our bodies, like viruses are the simplest possible. I think they're living the thing that's the simplest possible life form. That just shows that anything is possible. Like every all the damage that's being caused now with the coronavirus that was like one there's like one guy that mutated and jumped from a certain speed. We can trace the evolutionary path back.

There was a recent CNN article that was wondering how long it's been around. They were saying, see, if we could find this was covid-19 around in humans longer than is currently believed.

They think it might have existed for months, if not years, before it broke loose and became a pandemic or did mutate because I don't know, I didn't read the article.

So a video, not article. Oh, yeah.

Oh, you say CNN that CNN fake news.

Think you heard me, bitch. Where'd you learn that?

CNN there's still just liberal news, folks. It's the news leading scientists tell CNN that, listen, CNN is trying to do their best, but they they have perception that other people don't agree with, just like everybody else. Leading scientists tell CNN that it's possible the virus didn't just come from bats in the past months, but it may have existed in humans many months, even years before it grew into a deadly pandemic. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh reports.

By the way, CNN is not doing a good job, I just say I think the entire what are they doing about the incentive?

Like they're they're choking out the investigative, deep investigative journalism. That is exactly said the click bait, like like look at the title.

Look at the.

I think they're trying to stay alive. Well, yeah, but that's that's a problem. I think it is a problem. But I think in the defense of particularly online journalism, I think they're trying to stay alive.

I don't think it's a good time for journalism. Now, what I from what I understand, the only thing that keeps New York Times functional is the podcast. The podcast. The podcast is huge and that the podcast earns a lot of money.

But that's not. That means they need to innovate, they need to, they need to, because forecast does, it will. We need the fucking New York Times, though. The problem is they need to figure out a way to make money off of it. But we need we need the top of the food chain journalism.

Right. And that's what the Times has always represented. We need them. So when someone is someone's done something for the times, it's not so good or flawed. Yeah, OK. But it's still not that one person, that one article, whatever it is, is not the Times. The Times stands for something. Right with the New York Times is supposed to stand for what it always did when I was a kid. And it does now to a lot of people.

Still, it's the cream of the crop. It's the very best journalism. It's the very best it's the the ones that have the deepest insight, the ones that nail it. And we'd like it free of bias. But it's it's run by humans. You know, this is the problem of CNN is the problem with any news source. But we still need news sources. But it's run by humans.

They need high salaries. And there's a huge amount of people involved in making that system. That is a CNN. And so there's several mechanisms of innovation required. First, like this podcast here, podcasts in general require very few people to run now that there's an infrastructure to communicate with a lot of people.

And then there's the Wikipedia model. Yeah. So like Wikipedia is thousands of contributors that create extremely strong factual information. Yeah. And that's not like this is very little money required to run Wikipedia. Incredibly so.

So there are some journalists out there that are online, though, that are thriving because of the problems with legacy media. It's an opportunity it represents for guys like Tim Poole, my friend, to YouTube, examples of fantastic journalists. He's he's really objective. You might disagree with him or you might not find his perspective to be in aligned with yours. But that guy is he holds those journalistic ethics at the highest level, I mean, to the highest standard with him.

It's everything. And when you read his take or see him make a take on things, he is giving you the most honest objective take on it possible. And it's really hard to get that from a network. First of all, it's really hard to get what he does for a network because you're going to get these giant chunks where he'll he'll he can talk about something for as long as it takes to describe what the issue is.

Whereas CNN has a segment man, that segment is fucking seven minutes long. You better be done by seven minutes. We're going to commercial and then we're coming back with Don Lemon. He's got a sassy take on things and then Andrew Cooper's got new glasses. Look at that handsome bastard. And then they're all going to talk about shit and you got to listen. And it's Trump is bad coronavirus deadly and holy shit. Chris Cuomo. Got it. Let's go to Chris.

He's in his basement. And then you see Chris in his basement with Sanjay Gupta in there. Hold it up. Chest X-rays, you know, they they have their segments.

Man segments are bullshit. Yeah, it's dumb. You have these these standards that you've created a long fucking time ago. And this is the biggest handicap that legacy media has other than their inability to be free, like a guy like Temple is there now. He's an independent. They can't be free like he is. You have too many working pieces, too many producers, too many people that are telling you what direction these people that bring you the segments.

You're a talking head. There's a lot of shit going on there, man. A lot of shit going on there.

Well, but you have to innovate. You have to make more. I actually disagree about I mean, I think it's impossible to be perfectly objective or whatever. I just he's just one voice. He tries to be perfectly objective.

If I tries to be as objective as he can be.

I know that you need to aspire to it and not be polluted by other influences. But I can see people like I think I'm objective, but I have very different views than temple on some things and not others.

So. Well, there's subjective objectivity, isn't there? I don't know. Only one of us is just.

Is it possible what people can look at things like you have an idea, a subjective idea of what something means when you're looking at it objectively. So you're looking at a thing objectively. You're being honest about what what it's but you also have preconceived notions of what each individual aspect of that certain thing means and what's good and what's bad. That's where the subjective aspect of objectivity comes in. When you look at certain things that happen, there's certain ways you can look at something and not have a bias.

But look at something and you have a preconceived idea of what aspects of it should or should not be tolerated. And maybe sometimes it takes someone else to come along and say, OK, well, why do you hold these beliefs?

So, yeah, you're absolutely right. But the problem is that based on your skill set and your momentum and history, you might look at a very particular aspect. Objectively not see the bigger picture for sure, like Tempur has revealed and has focused on certain aspects of problems in the system and he continues to focus on them, maybe not seeing the bigger picture, that's impossible for any one person to see the bigger picture. I think, like I tend to I tend to see in a lot of things the beauty of things and focus on the positive.

And you talk about that even with viruses and even the viruses that you can. But that is that objective. I like if I or beauty is not an objective word.

But I just mean it's kind of is what we're just saying. There's a subjective aspect to your objective view of a virus.

Right. But it's choosing which parts I focus in on. And also the other thing is choosing the ways you talk about it.

So the ways you reveal that objectivity can be positive, could be negative.

You can be very cold, in fact based. You can be very flamboyant and very kind of excited to use a lot of visuals, all of those kinds of things.

And all of that changes the way the message is carried, which is why we should have thousands of temples as opposed to sort of well, I think they're going to spring up out of the void that's been created by the distrust in legacy media, especially now.

I don't know if you've been paying attention, but like YouTube, there's so many people, like my brother has not, like, put the camera on themselves.

Right. And say their opinions. Yeah. You know, say like he's doing like a bunch of reviews of scientific papers.

Like they're they're all like they started to show there's so many just there's thousands of shows springing up.

Do there's 900000 podcasts. It's crazy.

Oh, it's over a million now. I think it's about a million. Had a million weekly last week.

I'm sure people started podcasts right now. It's a crazy number. Well, especially now, right. While they're on lockdown, people don't like the lockdown chronicles.

I think it's it's a symbol of where we're going. Right?

It's you're becoming look, when I do this thing, I'm doing this thing four or five days a week and I'm becoming more connected with people in some weird way that no one ever thought it was ever going to happen before. Where there's people that are listen to my voice right now in their ear while they're running. Right. A lot, not a small amount. If you could see the actual number of people right now with earbuds in running listening to this podcast, you'd be like, whoa, that's kind of crazy.

Stay hard. You're running. Stay hard, motherfucker, but run faster. Right now.

This kind of connection is is a it's a dip into the next dimension. That's what this is. And it seemed like it wasn't it seemed like was just a radio show you're doing on the Internet. But then somewhere along the line became this weird thing, and that's what it is.

Now, podcasts are a weird thing, especially one that reaches the numbers of people that this one reaches. And for that to be in my hands is a weird position.

And I'm you know, while it's happening, I'm like, oh, look how fucking strange this is, huh? I didn't anticipate this. I always anticipated this being some weirdo fringe thing that very few people would connect with, which is why I never tried to censor it at all. I tried to do a vast majority of it, completely high out of my mind and and hang out with fun people and just talk shit and have a good time and not have a different perspective.

Some people have a public voice and a private voice. I try to have the same voice. Just be me. Just just do that.

This is what I tell people and say, what was Joe like behind the scenes? That'd be awesome if you're totally different. But I just tell them it's the same same guy.

It's just summer. Wouldn't it be a bummer if someone was like a super dick behind the scenes?

Yeah, and I've yeah. That'd be a bummer. Or like, you have to be a super dick, but it's just a totally different person, like like put it on an act.

Yeah. Like you put on that miniskirt, take off the tattoos, hug those curves, baby.

But the point is, what I think this is, is a step into the way humans are going. And this is just one step that we didn't think was a step. It's a podcast. I thought it was just like a radio show that you do on the Internet. But it's not for some reason, it's more involved and more entangled and more intense. And then and then also it has an impact. Right. I can get guys like Osterholm on to talk about stuff.

We can get an understanding of these things.

So he was wrong about masks, but he didn't know at that time. Yeah, there was not that long ago. Is that interesting that they didn't know about masks and they were sure he was incorrect about a few things, but I'm not going to point them out.

It doesn't matter because he he was stating the best available knowledge at the time.

Well, he was also incorrect about TWD chronic wasting disease, not being an elk and some other ungulates. He's wrong about that. My friend Doug Durán corrected that to me, sent a text to me about it that he listened to a few of the aspects of that podcast, and he was like, he's incorrect. About several things he was correct in the dangers of sea, W.D., which is chronic wasting disease, which is a disease that they are absolutely terrified, is going to make the jump from animals to people.

It's very similar to like a mad cow disease, but it has its own prions. And that he also sent me a text explaining the prions are not actually alive. They're not a living thing.

It's like a protein or a type of protein. Is that what it is? Prion. NASHER Whatever the fuck it is, you can't kill it. It's it's almost impossible to kill. They can sterilize it for three cycles of, like, medical steller sterilization techniques and for three cycles of, like, insane temperatures. And there's still trace elements of prions on the medical equipment.

It's a crazy thing that gets into people. We have a real huge problem. So this is a real dress rehearsal. We see in all these people that are recovering from this, there's nobody recovering from chronic wasting disease. No one, every deer that gets it dies.

They all die and they die in a horrible way.

Their body rots away and they're walking around like a skeleton and they're vomiting all this goo and slime that comes out of them that's infected with seaweed. And then these animals come along and eat those leaves that they were eating and they threw up on. And then they get it, too. It's crazy. And stuff even can get apparently into the DNA of some plants. The one of the really interesting things that's amazing on a positive note is that it seems like we haven't seen a virus that's both or any kind of thing that jumps to humans that's both deadly and spreads easily.

So like there's viruses that what Ebola, like Ebola like this that kills like crazy but doesn't spread too easily.

Right. And there's viruses that spread easily.

But don't kill the there's no in terms of virology, in terms of biology, there's no good reason why that should be the fact.

But isn't that just how the world works in general and systems? I mean, look at humans. We have a spectacular ability to control our environment. We have the ability to use materials from the outside world and construct them into weapons that lets you kill at distance. But we're made out of jelly donuts. We're like this soft bag of shit, like even a really hard person.

A knife goes right through them. You know, we're really mushy, whereas like a water buffalo is dumb as fuck.

But God damn are they tough. You know, there's a balance to this.

There is. But that's the kind of romantic notion that I don't know if it applies like the biology and the physics of it doesn't make sense. It doesn't. But when would it change?

When would it become something that does tip that scale and becomes something more catastrophic? Well, if you were looking at it objectively outside of the system, you would say, well, when one part of the system becomes overbearingly powerful.

That's us, that's humans. I mean, where where were that virus? Well, we are on everything. We are rats on a sinking ship. We're on every little patch of land.

You find spots in Antarctica, you find people taking shit, digging holes in the ground to bury it and hopefully soon on Mars and the rest of the solar system.

If you want to do that. Yeah, there's the numbers that we have right now are fucking incredible. We've propagated the the whole globe.

Well, ants are still biomass wise for Farhad. Yeah, but they don't do shit. Viruses are really ahead of us. Like most viruses are running the show.

We're just like a little fun. Right. But in terms of the impact on the planet, I don't think you can make it like ants might have the same. They have the same biomass as us, right.

In terms of total volume, yeah, yeah, so there's the weight of ants is the same as the weight of all the people, that's how many the answer, which is pretty crazy, we stop and think about it.

But they don't have the same impact in terms of what their impact on other creatures like the tuna that we're pulling on to see their impact on the pollution by viruses.

And the other hand, viruses can they can ruin a whole species, a whole even, you know, certain like microorganisms.

They can just kill everything. Yeah.

And, well, plague's what is the most devastating historical plague? Black death. And how many plague?

How many that actually million. Two hundred million mostly in Europe.

Wow, you had numbers crazy, well, Spanish loses 50 million, 200 million makes you just step in you no social media, though, so we don't I mean, it's death that's forgotten.

Well, not only that death, it was probably left to rot out in the streets and horrendous smells. And people didn't understand viruses and diseases back then.

Smallpox, I would say, like when I talked to virologists, they say smallpox is the scariest of them all until we develop the vaccine, a smallpox, you Native Americans, you would I mean, they decimated.

Smallpox decimated. Probably I don't know what the number is, but more than 50 million. Yeah, the number is supposed to be stunning in some places. As many as 90 percent were killed by European diseases, smallpox and the like, 90 percent. That's I mean, imagine something that just comes to American wipes out 90 percent of us. And then you understand what it must have been like for the Native Americans when they encounter the European diseases that the Europeans had already developed antibodies for.

Just everyone around you is dying. Imagine that 90 percent. You know, I mean, we're looking at something.

That's right. What is the global death rate?

I mean, it's kind of thrown off because of Italy, because Italy has a very high death rate in terms of people that get infected.

What we often confuse death rate. So if you look at the deaths divided by the population that numbers, I want to be careful saying small ever, but it's a very small percentage. So I understand.

What I'm saying, though, is overall the number of people, the percentage of people that have died from this and then compare that.

To the impact that smallpox had on Native Americans, you'd be like, whoa, yeah, the difference between 90 percent of the population gets killed and the high in Italy is what is what is the percentage of death? I think it's 10 percent of people who get it are dying. Right. No, that's definitely lower than that. And in Italy, I thought it was 10 percent. I mean, it's possible I don't I haven't been too close following.

But you think Italy is an outlier and that's really where they get that number is dividing by the number of cases. OK, Italy.

Now, let's listen. Look, it's right there, man. Coronavirus cases. One hundred five thousand deaths, 17000.

The problem is those cases were the reported cases. So you don't know. Right and right. You're saying there's a lot of people that just weren't tested in the hearing test. Right.

But isn't that kind of like the nielson's like you kind of look at it, you have to divide by and then, you know, no, no, no, because I don't know how this works, but this is not randomly sampled.

So if they randomly sample the population and then look at the desperation, that would be more statistically accurate.

This is just people who have reported so that don't you think that a bunch of people could have died from the coronavirus and they didn't attributed them to that? Yes. So it could be higher than that. Could be higher. Yeah, OK. That's what I'm thinking, too. But that's what they're saying in America as well, by the way. Yeah. They're saying there's a bunch of people that die and they don't know what to do and they don't have the tests.

So they don't currently given the tests, it's much more likely that. The the number is lower, meaning that it's just we're not testing, we're not testing nearly enough. So if we randomly so Iceland did this random test is lower.

I'm sorry for deaths or four infections, four deaths. So four infections as well. All right. Yeah, four infections. Oh, sorry. Yeah, four infections. But you need the infection number to calculate the percentage of the deaths rate correctly. So you have to test I don't know what the percentages, but it's a very large percentage of population. Probably 20, 30 percent of the population have to sample randomly. Not not people who are showing symptoms, not people who are like, no, just sample randomly.

You know, you get that number accurately. There's something about every apocalyptic movie. Something happens where you realize that these people have accepted a new normal, you know.

Yeah. Whether it's Mad Max or a quiet place. You see that scary movie? That's what is that what it's called? Jamy Quiet Place is a movie about aliens that come here.

You got to be real quiet around them to fuck you up.

What's what do you think is the new normal here? Well, how about social distancing? I've been watching a lot of movies because we have movie night at home every night and, you know. Watching movies where people are hugging and shaking hands, if it's weird, it's weird like that. That's the new normal. Like if that was in a movie or a dystopian version of the future on a Hulu show like The Handmaid Tales, Handmaid's Tale, Handmaid's Tale.

I had to quit that one.

I was like this to I'm not going to get anything good. This is going to bum me out.

Too much touching. No, no. Just to the dystopian version of the future is too depressing.

Was too awful. My great, great show.

But I don't think we'll come back to hugging and I don't know man. I don't know. But I'm saying if there was a movie or a television show where people behave with social distancing and everyone was afraid of everyone's viruses, like the reality that we're experiencing right now, there's a television show.

They'd be like, what kind of weird fucking show is this? You would think it's so strange. This is a virus that makes New York City quiet, like drive down New York City. You see a car. There's a second car. Yeah, there's a third car deserted.

My friend John Joseph sent me some videos of him ride his bike around New York. And he's like, look how fucking crazy this is. There's no one out here. There's no one out here. And he's he's, you know, turn his phone and show all these empty streets. It's weird.

It's weird to see. Real weird. Yeah.

Like like airports. All that. She flew here by yourself on a plane by myself. There was no one else on the plane with you on the plane, but they still fly and nobody behaved like that.

Nobody treated me special. Wow.

That's what was surreal is that the airports are empty, but they're fully staffed because you still want to give.

I think I think part of the stimulus package is giving money to the airlines. So you want to make sure people stay employed. Yeah. Make sure that planes are still running.

That's so crazy that they're flying with one guy. And you had a private flight, private flight across the country. Did you lay back, take up all seats and switch seats in the middle of flight?

Like, no, I just try not to get freaked out. I just I watched what? The Tiger King.

No. Yes. Yeah. Do you get any boos?

Are they serving booze on the plane? No, no. No liquids, nothing. They don't serve anything. No, I don't want to touch you. Right. Yeah. I don't think they've interacted with me at all.

No interaction with you. Yeah. You the one guy on the plane, they don't even ask. How are you doing? All right.

No, they were all wearing masks. I was wearing a mask. Well it was but they were friendly I would say the least friendly. And that was weird.

Going to the airport is there's nobody everybody is working and it's just me, my stupid mask. It was it was definitely it was surreal. The but it seemed OK.

The thing that I don't like is how people behave. A grocery stores. It's the thing you've said actually is they like they they don't want to get close to you.

Strange. It's so strange. They're almost like afraid of this. And that really worries me because it has a potential of just separating us, damaging the sense of community.

There's long term ramifications if we keep this not hugging each other shit up and we have to all be aware of that fact like this is this has to be temporary.

Well, once they come up with the remedy, a cure, if you just know that all you have to do is go to the doctor and the doctor is going to give you a thing.

You're going to be fine after you like staph infections. Have you gotten staff from Gyges yet? No. Well, it can fucking kill you. You have to take care of it. Staph can kill you.

And there's a lot of people that don't even know what it is and you get infected and then it gets systemic, gets in your blood. And, you know, there's a lot of people that just don't know any better and they're not good at going to the doctor and they develop some sort of infection by the time they go somewhere to take care of it. It's really bad. And they're in trouble like they could die, you know. But thank God they have fucking medicine for that.

At least they can give you a fighting chance. So people aren't afraid of jujitsu. You still jujitsu, even though people get staff, you know, I know a bunch of people that have gotten staff from training a lot. They could all be dead if it wasn't for remedies, right? If it wasn't for antibiotics, if it wasn't for, you know, taking the proper care and treating it. Apparently, some people treated staff organically and Rhonda Pacta was actually talking about I think she had mersa at one point and as part of the treatment, along with antibiotics, she introduced Garlock into into the actual wound itself.

And apparently that had a pretty profound effect.

Oh, man, I'd love to see the studies. I wish I remember what she said about that. She usually comes with studies. Oh, she's got a fuck load. She studies about everything.

She's not the smartest people I've ever talked to, have followed what she's saying now and the virus, because she's talking about different nutrients that support your immune system, particularly vitamin D, she takes a lot of vitamin D, but she's just talked about all the various forms, whether it's through sauna or cold cold plunges. She's the one who turned me on to that. All that stuff, heat, shock proteins called shock proteins and the impact of it. And there's some videos that you could find online of her talking about it.

She's also written some articles about it. And she's she's just a huge fan of that hermetic response and how important that is to your system keeps your system healthy. Dude, I've been doing it seven days a week, which I wasn't doing before, so, yeah, seven days a week. I do it now.

And you just do saw you jump in did you. The cold like. No, I haven't been doing cold. I want to get a cold plunge thing here. I think I'm going to get something and replace one of my not in this room and bathroom out there.

What's next plunge. You mean like like a tub full of ice water and when that big steel tubs and you throw bags of ice in there and I'm going to get an ice machine and just turn that room into a freezer, take off room.

Yeah, that's that's what I've done a few times. It's awesome. It's really hot for you. Right. It's good for you. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I think that those making your body deal with those responses makes it stronger. I'll tell you what, man, I've been working out a lot because of this lockdown. I've been doing a lot of moiety to a lot of hitting, punching and kicking shit.

And that always makes me really saw my joints sore and that fucking sore. And every day is kind of knocked all that out. I feel great, you know, and I've been throwing a lot of power kicks, punches and all the shit and everything feels good.

Everything feels real good. I just think that is a giant benefit to doing that on a regular basis.

You can buy one and put in your backyard. If you have that kind of scratch, I say do it. I'm telling you.

What's the temperature? Water. Well, Sarnez is dry. Oh, yes. Oh, you mean like a dry sauna? Yeah, not a Jacuzzi, bro.

Those are probably good for you too, but I thought it was like a wet one.

It was no. Like a steam or steam room. Yeah.

The problem with that is you can't get as hot because you cook.

You know, like if you have one hundred and ninety degree air, you're OK. If you get in one hundred and ninety degree water, you're going to die.

Oh, the steam room is essentially I mean, you're in a liquid. Exactly. Yeah. You're going to die. You're going to get cooked.

So heat going dry up in the heat. Dry heat you can tolerate. I mean I throw a little water on it. There's actually a little scale in the sauna that's like the top of it is the degrees. In the bottom of it is the humidity.

And you're supposed to calculate those and find out exactly how how hot it feels.

But either way, you throw a little bit of water. I throw three troops, three little spoonfuls of water on that sit there and I sit there and fucking suffer.

And when you get out of there, everything just feels looser and more relaxed. As soon as your body comes back to a normal temperature, you just feel so much better. It's so valuable, man.

Well, exercise right now I highly recommend what are you doing? Because you're not you can't go to jujitsu and you were doing a lot of that. So what are you doing for your exercise?

I'm a body weight. I do have a cowbell, but I kind of avoid it because it's like hell, it's too intense from how much is away.

The thirty, thirty, thirty pounds. Yeah.

So it's hell I'm trying to remember if it's kilograms or pounds it's probably 35 pounds as if it's 30 kilograms.

It's heavy as fuck. Yeah. No it's not 30. Never mind 30 kilograms. What. Sixty five pounds. Yeah.

So that is so it's something that kills me if I do like Swing's basic stuff for thirty minutes. Okay.

Like probably thirty five pounds. Yeah. But I don't like Keith Weber. Have you ever done his series. He's been on the podcast before. Is this extreme kettlebell cardio workout that we sell it on it and. But I found out about it. We sell it because I found out about it. I found out about it. I believe through I think I've just found it on the Internet. I got a DVD and it's brutal. And I was like one little thirty five pound counter Belmont's bitch ass.

The way to Fox, I'm going to do dude four minutes.

And I'm like, how long is this. Forty minutes. There's no fucking way.

And I is the sorest that I had been in a long time was just one thirty five pound kettlebell doing this, this extreme kettlebell cardio routinely put together.

He's got two of them too. I think he might have three. He definitely has two of them there.

Fucking most like you're mostly.

Oh no you're doing everything bitch. You do and you do in windmill's you're doing hot potatoes, you're doing renegade rows. You know you're doing everything man. You're doing you're doing klinz overhead presses and squats and and it's just a non stop certainly gives you these little breaks the like last like ten or fifteen seconds then boom, you're moving to the next exercise and you're like, holy shit.

And you realize how much work you can get in with. Just a kettlebell.

Just a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Like people like you. I got no room for a gym.

If you can afford a kettlebell, please just buy. You don't have to buy their kettlebell on it. They're probably out of style. We're out of stock on it. Yeah.

We've seen people so quick because there's no gyms are all closed, so you know what to do. So you know who else makes great shit rogue. Maybe Rogue has them. They make awesome kettlebell, they make awesome everything. Here is this Keith Weber, my man. So this fucking workout goes on and he's shredded.

Look at my boy, Keith. Look at him showing you how to get your fuck muscles going. But he's this is him explaining the correct way to do kettlebell swings. But I. I don't I mean, you can get a lot of his workouts online.

There's a lot of workouts online for people. If you got a YouTube account or a computer that gets online, go to YouTube and find these kettlebell workouts that people put online for free because they they put a great workout up there for free. Just so that you subscribe to their page, you know, they'll give you some value. And what you're giving them is a large audience.

It's some fucking great workouts, bodyweight workouts as well, that have free, free videos online. Follow along and you could do everything from your living room and you can get blasted.

I mean, you can have a crazy workout from a lot of videos. There's so many of them.

I do I do more chill kind of working out. I run for longer distances. So what I recommend, if you're not as intense, is as I got around about sixty miles every day and pushups and body weight squats. I love body weight squats. I always. What surprises are always surprising to me how little have how much they can kill you like everyone who thinks they're badass even can squat a lot, right? Even if you can squat, like, I don't know, 400, 500, 600 pounds, try try to do 50 bodyweight squats, like something happens.

What's the most you've ever done in a row? I've I know I usually start suffering at 20 and maybe I've done 40 before, I don't know.

Hmm, but I have a Yeah, my you can get up, you can get up really high numbers and it's a glorious form of torture and it's crazy how much it develops your legs, particularly the quads like right above the knee.

You know, there's these little muscles that are on the side like that hurts from Hindu squats more than fucking anything I've done ever. It targets those so uniquely because while you're at the bottom, when your heel is up and you're on the ball, your foot and you rise up, it's like all that muscle for the whole beginning of the rise.

It's all that that part of the quad right by the knee. It's a really unique way to target that muscle. And guys who do it a lot, like a lot of those dudes are really in a catch wrestling.

They would do like 500 a day every day. They all have these, like, preposterous legs. And that was like a big part of the development of their strength was just doing ridiculous numbers of Hindu squats.

And you can also do like I usually I used to do them a lot, especially when I competed in jujitsu and wrestling. I would do a lot of them.

And I would also like jump like you. You explode into the. Yes. As opposed to sort of slow but that, you know.

Do you ever hear Carl Gotch? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Carl Gottsch was famous for his body weight conditioning programs.

He was a just a stickler for having his wrestlers be in insane physical condition. It was a prerequisite for training with him.

Like, awesome. Yeah. No, he had a preposterous workout.

I think he was really in the clubs too, was like I think he was really into those club bells and a bunch of other but those other kinds of workouts too.

But I actually competed in a couple of catch wrestling tournaments.

These are really cool. What are the rules keeping you pinned, right? Yeah. You can feel so weird because because I won a couple of matches by PIN and it felt like this is so stupid.

This is so stupid. I didn't even submit the guy. It felt.

Oh. And I did a lot of interesting things.

So I would I pulled Butterfly Guard a few times so meaning you can get pinned but you don't get points for an almost pin. OK, so you can play guard as long as you don't get your back. You don't have to elevate, you have to elevate of regularly.

So I don't think you can get pinned if you didn't get past the legs.

OK, so, so as long as you're in the butterfly guard you're flat on your back if you have him in your butterfly guard. His opinion, of course is confusing the refs and stuff.

But oh it was just that it was cool because the the guys that did it, it felt more like like, like Yogi back in like ten gabbed days and it was more geto.

It was people wearing wrestling shoes and you can kind of see him. They just got off there like wrestling shoes. Yeah.

So you he'll hook them. Yeah, I think so. I think if everything is legal, that is a weird choice to wear wrestling shoes, someone can he'll hook you unless you're like a heel hook. Dean Lyster, master, one of those Gary Tonin type dudes, knows how to do it from every angle.

Like for them, actually, I would say, like if pride was still around, pride let you wear wrestling shoes.

There is a significant advantage from being able to wear wrestling shoes, significant not just for your wrestling, but also for your striking and cop for wrestling shoes for a little bit.

Crack-Up head kick someone with wrestling shoes on.

I remember. I remember. I remember who it was. Might have been Mark Hunt.

And I remember thinking, fuck man, he could kick people with shoes on.

That almost seems nuts because the the amount of traction that you can get from a rubber soul with texture on the bottom of it versus just your foot, your slippery ass bullshit foot slipping around on the canvas with you, with your wrestling shoes on, you get traction when it's wet, you get traction everywhere.

You know, like even if there's like a puddle on the floor, you get traction with the wrestling shirt where you wouldn't get it with a bare foot.

But sometimes it's kind of weird or bare feet.

It is kind of weird, but it's not. I think it should be buried. Well, I should be naked.

I used to think, yes, you should have a hard on or you can't fight. I used to think I used to think that you should have to have no gloves.

But then I've been watching this bare knuckle boxing and people's faces get fucked up so bad.

You see Chris Lieben fight. Dakota Cochran and his face look like someone hit him with a machete. It was crazy. The most enormous car ever seen on a man's face in a fight. So now I'm starting to rethink that, like maybe those knuckles or something about blood.

No, it's not that. It's about damage to your tissue, not worry about the blood. I'm worried about scarring people up for life.

What about you on her injury?

It's crazy right now. It's crazy. You want ideally, I didn't check in the shower.

OK, yeah, she's fine now.

Her swelling is all gone down, but she had black eyes for a couple of weeks. All that fluid she had on her forehead. She's so tough, man. She's so tough. She's such a savage as a grave. She's so admirable. Like watching the way she fought that fight. Both of them are. But it was such a back and forth brawl of a fight was so perfectly matched. There was a draw or I mean, you could make the argument you want to one, you could make the argument, Whaley one, you can make the argument it was a draw.

You can make any of those arguments because that's how close the fight was. It's all what you think about this one. There's a lot of people that thought you want to win it. But the most important thing is you want to fought like a champion. I mean, they both fought like a like champions. Weli fought like a champion.

It was about as good a fight as you're ever going to get. So evenly matched, so perfect, so much heart and conditioning and skill. They had everything, everything spectacular actually forgot the other fight in the card.

That's how good that fight was.

I mean, the fight was style Bender versus Joe Romero, right? It was forgetful. It was it was a fight that was forgettable.

It seemed like huge, huge beforehand. By the way, who you got in terms of do you think Ferguson and Kobe will go down?

Who knows, man?

Not a fucking not if something happens this weekend just in case he's a monster, just engages a monster. He's a monster. He's a terrifying individual.

He is.

I mean, in a sport that's violent, it's an inherently violent sport.

He stands out as the most violent, you know, craziness.

I mean, you watched his knockout of Edson Barbosa. You watch how that motherfucker attacks people.

There's a reckless abandon to his his calculated wildness. That is it's terrifying. He's something special and he's better all the time. The question is, how much has he been training?

He's taken a fight on very short notice.

He's taking the fight essentially two weeks notice also might be kind of weird to train now in these coronavirus times or training partners.

I don't know him well. Ray Longo, who I respect very much, said that fighters shouldn't be fighting because I don't know if you said they shouldn't be fighting, but he said he said he definitely felt like it wasn't fair, the fighters, because they they don't have a full camp. They're not going to be able to show who they really are. The good point.

It's a really good point, man. It's a really good point. This is a, you know, a wild situation. Where there's a guy who's going to fight for the interim title, he gets the call, let me look. That's also how Nate Diaz beat Conor McGregor in their first fight. Remember that? That was 11 days out. They call Nadiya's. He's eaten tacos, fucking trigged tequila in Mexico and probably doing triathlons, but.

Well, on the side. Yeah, sure. Well, he's never out of shape, really. Knock out a normal person out of shape like you or I would get.

But for Justin, Gaggia really depends entirely on how much time he's spent in the gym. Now he's a man with a plan. Right. He's trying to be the UFC lightweight champion. So he's probably not getting too out of shape.

And he probably knew that in this case, there is a potential that one of those guys could drop out because they've already made that fight four fucking times and it fell apart. So this is the fifth time it's fallen apart, which is nuts. It's crazy.

So it might be the just engaged knew that this was a possibility that he could be called in as a replacement. He might be in full camp mode. We really don't know. We'd have to talk to him.

Conor McGregor knew all along.

Conor McGregor knew. He knew. I called it.

He's he was another one that I'm sure was probably getting ready, but I'd love to see him for in 2020.

Conor McGregor versus Tony Ferguson would be fine. Yeah.

Oh, why didn't that people have to be on standby for last minute villains or so I think there are some people that they asked to be on standby. They have definitely done that before and they've asked guys to make wait. And there's a lot of guys that have been through a full camp and they're paid for a full camp and they're paid to make weight. This is something that's happened several times in the UFC history where guys show up because they're there to to to fight and step in.

If something falls apart, especially if you have a guy who may maybe struggles with weight cutting and you might fall apart and get pulled from a fight or someone is maybe injured or sick and they like a little nervous with this fight.

We're getting super fights every week. Do you think?

I don't know, man. If they build into the Dragon Island, you're going to commentate, right?

Yeah, until the Dragon Island. I don't know. I don't know how we're going to do it. I don't know how it's going to be done. That's where the tracksuit. Please.

Just like Bruce Lee. Hmm. Yeah. I do want to real quick ask you. Did you consider interviewing Trump on this? Well, he's never asked to do it, and I've never asked him, would you do it?

Oh, no. Because as well, so what makes you what you ask? I'm not trying to stay out of politics, bro. It's too sketchy.

You think it's politics interviewing somebody like Trump? No, it's all politics at all.

What's the meaning?

Well, it's a political thing. And just even having him on is it's a statement. Well, it's you know, it's it's he's the he's a politician.

He's a professional president. I mean, that is not better.

But the nature of long form conversation is such that you're not doing talking points. Why do you ask? OK, so I'd love to see him on the show, first of all. And I actually was in the works of interviewing him. Lie a year a year ago for what? For the podcast that I do, really, but it was more of a supposed to be about the A.I. initiative, that that would be a short I mean, imagine would be a short thing about seeing how we going to be in person.

In person. Yeah, that would be an interesting conversation, but very different.

Like, I would like this kind of conversation. I just wanted to talk, not wanted. But I think what they wanted to talk with the NSF and certain heads of the administration and just saying this is a really it's important for us as a country to stay ahead on innovation in terms of artificial intelligence so that that kind of conversation, it's a little it's a little bit less about getting into the human story of a human being, which I think is one of the most interesting people has been in office.

But, yeah, as if you're studying humans, who's definitely one of the most interesting. The reason I bring that up is as. I was thinking. At this kind of question of if there if there's a person I talked to because I thought Trump would be incredible for this, there's a bunch of people in this world which are incredible for this podcast, like only you can have that conversation. So I started asking myself, like, what is the conversation I could have that only I can do not only but like I'm especially well equipped for.

Yeah, I would say well equipped better. I don't think there's anybody that only I can talk to. All right. I misspoke, but I know what you said. I know what you're saying though. And for that, that's why. And now I think I think there's agreement now as I'll interview Vladimir Putin. Holy shit.

I think he has not been interviewed. Well, I have all the connections. And you speak Russian. Yeah. So it would be a mix of Russian English.

Yeah, well, that would be the big thing, though, is to talk to him in Russian and then relay it in a way that makes us understand it.

That's a actually interesting question. I would probably talk in English with the translator. Why would you do that?

Because the ultimate result has to be an English. Nothing that has to be but the we have to translate on the fly because the how do I put it, translators won't do a good job of translating. So I'll understand everything he's saying in Russian and he'll actually understand everything I'm saying in English. He speaks pretty good English.

OK, but he's not allowed I mean, not not allowed. So you think that would be better than subtitles?

Yes, I think it's more human. It's more real. It's like you with your ideas and you're. Well, you are. Yeah. You didn't do subtitles for that.

Oh, that was that speaks pretty good. Yeah. Joey's perfect. He's perfectly bilingual. So that was a great situation, you know, and also Joyce from Cuba. So together that was amazing.

So the translator that Putin has is actually really good translators. They're not some generic folks. I'm sure they're friends like they're not not friends, but they know each other. They know each other well. So that's it's almost it's a very similar situation, except that person is not a Giorgio's at all. Right.

But it's that creates that kind of, uh, atmosphere where you can when there's some uncertainty about the statements that you're making, you can play with that. But it's an interesting thing.

Do you think you would do that, the interview? Yeah. Yeah, well, there's two parts. I know I have all the right connections for it. I think you would do it because he he will understand who I am. And the second part is I have a little bit of a Conor McGregor situation going on where anything everything I've done in my life that I decided I'm going to do always happens. Everything, everything. Mean, I think that is, you know, some mystic shit going on, I don't know, mystic, let's call you Mr.

Mystic. Looks like mystic Matt. No, that's wrong. Is that.

Yeah, that's his thing. Mystic Mac. Dude, we're three hours and 20 minutes into.

Believe it or not, it's a good place to end up. Can I do this silly song? Yeah.

Well and honestly. Song No pressure. It's been an amazing podcast so far.

This song doesn't, uh, if it doesn't hold up, we're just going to cut the power just.

Well, I mean, I'm Brian Cowen. Yeah. We'll blame it on Calland.

Good call the. So I did this video. I played the organ experience theme.

OK, so what many people think can hear the guitar, by the way.

Right. What many people think is Brian Reed Band set out to Red Band was the one who came up with that from like Garage Band, but. It turns out there's actually words to the song, oh, that Brian Cowen wrote Brian Cowan, he sang it in a few episodes.

OK, I know this stupid song.

Yeah, well, and with this, let's Friedman, thank you for being here. Appreciate the fuck out of you. Tell everybody your Instagram. Friedman spelled weird like Fridman.

Yeah I fridmann leks fridmann Instagram. Do use the Twitter as well. The Twitters. Yeah twit. Same thing on Twitter. Same thing on Twitter. Listen to the artificial intelligence podcast. Yeah. And it's been fun, but if anyone wants to do any weddings or bar mitzvahs for musicians, he'll sing his ass off.

I'll come get some. OK, thanks for being here man. I appreciate it. Let's go. This is the stupidest thing I've ever done. Uh, so this is a story, OK, in the desert.

I met a man with an eagle perching on his hand and he asked me, son, what can I do for you? Definitely the stupidest father. I said, I'm looking for the meaning I should be living for. He put a finger to my lips, but the old man speak. They call me Brian Callahan.

In this cruel world, there is a man you should listen to as he journey on through life. His name is Joe Rogan.

Joe Rogan showed for days and the really Wide Bay, Joe Rogan, Joe Rogan barrel of snakes for a bag that he mounted his horse and he looked to the sky and he rode to the sunset with a tear in his eye. And the legend goes. The old man rides on singing the words to this terrible song.

Joe, Joe, the show This Days and I really back. I really regret this.

Joe Rogan, Joe Rogan and various other snakes were by.

You fucked up. Should've never done that for those terrible people, going to never forgive you for that. Thank you. I regret nothing. Thank you, brother. Thank you, brother. Bye, everybody. Stay safe. Thank you, friends. And thank you to our sponsors. Thank you to Stamps.com. In these crazy times, Stamps.com is a godsend. It brings all the services of the U.S. Postal Service right to your computer in the safety and comfort of your own home office or anywhere else.

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