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My guest today is a legend. A legend in the world of skateboarding. Couldn't be a nicer, cooler guy.

Please give it up for the great and powerful Tony Hawk Girl podcast, the Joe Rogan Experience, trained by job Rocky podcast by night, all day and Marone.

All right, Tony.

Awesome. Thank you. My pleasure. Thanks for him. Thanks for coming here, man. Yeah. Thanks for inviting me. It's an honor.

It's interesting to see you even just fuck around with your skateboard just the way you maneuver it. So you're so adept. It's really weird, like the way you move your feet and just pick it up and. Oh, it's very impressive.

I mean, it really is just at this point kind of extension of my body, it seems like. And it's I guess it's weird.

I don't think about how comfortable I am. And a lot of times we'll be in a city or something or just like now, I didn't know where to park. Right.

So I just parked somewhere kind of close and just I go skate and I feel way better about doing that than like parking and then walking somewhere. And just, you know, I know I get around people and sort of be indiscreet and still indiscreet, Tony.

I'm just saying, like, aiport is in the street. That's ridiculous. I do get weird looks for sure. For sure. Yeah. I guess they like to do a kick flip out from car window. Really. Yeah. Oh that's funny.

Yeah. That's my curse that I, that I, that's my burden I carry.

I'm seeing these new skateboards that are, they look like convertibles where as these guys flip the board the wheels flip up and go oh yeah.

That's, that's sort of a phenomenon, sort of a social media thing going on.

So you could see it in slo mo. Is that what it is? No.

Where the board is actually a contraption, right. Yeah. Yeah. I don't I don't really understand what that is. There's a there's a select few people doing that. Yeah.

And I've seen a couple where they actually have figured out how to make their board grind and then do a flip around a rail as they jump back on it. Oh boy. Yeah, that's it's very specialized though. I can't say that's a movement.

It's just a few people that do many bones. Do you have to break that? This dude sliding down rails? I'm like, how many times do you fuck that up. Yeah. Have a forearm.

I was scanning went through a different different waves of of disciplines basically. And in the early 90s it was all street.

Right. And so what I did was, was vert skating that was kind of dying out. So I, I was skating straight a lot too. And I realized I was not fit to be a speed skater. The third time I rolled my ankle like both ankles twice. Then the third time the other one, I was like, I don't want to handrails anymore. This is not working for me. This impact is I'm not going be able to skate anymore.

If I keep doing this.

I see these kids like when you whenever you go, like near like a large office building that has a lot of outdoor space and you see them using the rails and stuff like how many breaks can you have before like there?

I think that it's a little deceiving because people do know how to fall relatively safely from from stuff like that. But they get addicted.

Right? They're doing that probably every day. Yeah, for sure. And there's there's all kinds of different styles.

So there's textiles where it's more people are skating ledges and benches and they're bored, grinding, flipping out stuff like that where it's low impact but super technical.

And then there's just the stuntmen who are doing the big rails, the big gaps, you know, jumping fences.

And how did this happen? Like what was like how did it go from just riding escape? Like when I was a kid? You and I are the same age. But when I was I guess I was probably like eleven or twelve, I had a skateboard. I was just riding it on the street with all my friends who just ride a skateboard on the street. Like what happened? Like how did it get to be like grinding across cross benches and railings?

Like, I think there's a well, there's a pretty deep history there of how it got there. But skating was. Yeah.

Just more like a transportation toy.

And then it was really the Dogtown crew that took it to a new level where it was like, oh, you can use this to do aerials and skate swimming pools.

And they were just trying to emulate their surfing. And so then skate parks started cropping up.

Skating got popular in the late 70s, early 80s, and then it was all swimming pools.

And then maybe like four years later, the skateboarding kind of started falling in popularity. The the skate parks couldn't get their insurance anymore because the liability was crazy.

Oh, yeah. And so then the streets became the skate park because there's nowhere else to go. And there was a. There were a few key skaters that that figured out how to use, like the urban landscape as a skate park, and then that was it, like it was all bets are off skating kind of took off in the underground as the street culture, street sport.

And then people started doing handrails, ledges, benches, stairs, because they just did not parks.

How much of an impact did the Internet have on it? Because it seems like once kids could see all these YouTube videos of people doing all this crazy shit, it must have really accelerated it.

I think what it did I mean, especially in the last 10 years, it even the playing field, you didn't have to live in Southern California. You didn't have to live in New York or be near where the industry is. You can just be in your little town. As long as you're putting out content and it's progressive, you're going to get noticed.

And I think that's awesome. Oh, yeah, that is awesome. Yeah, yeah. That's one of the cool things about it. Like you said, evened out the playing field. Yeah.

And, you know, people are making career as a skaters now in the most unlikely places.

Well, you are the Lance Armstrong of skating and this is what I mean. I don't mean that you get caught doing drugs.

What I mean is that you're the guy like when people talk about professional skaters, Tony Hawk, like, I don't know, a single fucking bike rider other than Lance Armstrong. I mean, Greg, there was another guy, Greg Lemond. Yeah.

See, but I can't remember him real quick.

But for you, it's that's got to be strange because, like, you were the first in your for sure. The most prominent.

Like, how did you pull that off?

Well, mostly longevity by surviving the first wave of skating in the 80s was actually kind of the second wave of skating in the 80s where I had a pretty good career.

I was doing really well in competition, especially in the in the mid to late 80s. And then skating kind of went underground. I never quit and started my own skate company in 1992. And then when the X Games came into play, I was still kind of on top of my game. I did really well there. And I think a lot of people carried over my name from that that first round where they were skaters in the 80s and now maybe their kids skate and they're like, oh, I remember that guy, you know, and their kids are watching on the X Games.

And then when our video game came out in nineteen ninety nine, that's when everything changed for sure.

Well, you were famous for skating when you were like 17 or something, right. I turned pro and I was 14. Yeah. And then but I mean that when I say that it seems it might seem magical but at the time skating was this little tiny scene.

So when I first, when I literally went pro, I was filling out an entry form to a competition and I had already reached the top of the amateur ranks. And there was a little box that said pro in a little box that am. So I clicked. I checked the pro box and that was it.

As pro, no one was offering me a contract. No one had champagne, you know what I mean? And like my coach was, I'll never forget. Stacy was looking over my shoulder and I checked it and he's like, OK, that's it.

That was it. Yeah. Wow. But you had a coach. We had we had a team manager. He he's the one who put me on what is now considered the Bones Brigade. But the company was Powell Peralta, and that was sort of the elite crew of skaters in the in the early 80s. And I was the super young newbie on the team, like super skinny, dorky kid. And a lot of the guys that were established were like this guy.

Really?

What is that, Jim? Oh, that you. That's me at age 17.

Wow. Time flies freak you out, look at it. I think it's I mean, I see that photo making the rounds, so it's cool. I'm actually so by the time I turn 17, I was kind of doing well in competition and making money. So I'm literally sitting outside of my house that I bought while I was a senior in high school in that photo.

Whoa. Which was a challenge trying to stay focused on schoolwork.

When you have the party house, that's crazy. You own a fucking house. Yeah. Wow. A duplex.

But yeah, it's my own place. But, you know, like when you're a senior. Oh, so and so's parents are out of town parties at his house like my parents were never home so everyone's going to my house.

But what did your parents think about you buying a house is my dad's idea.

Really? Yeah. Because he saw me really not understanding finances or how lucky I was.

And I was just throwing money away, you know, and cars and trips and Sharper Image, just the most ridiculous things.

And then he's like, I really think you should invest your money.

You get a massage chair, Sharper Image, massage chair of those. No, but I thought, OK, this is a long story.

But my sister and I went in on a tanning bed together, was like I used it once.

She used it because she it was helpful to her skin.

I'm not going to say why, but, you know, she had a legitimate reason for it. But I was like, yeah, tanning bed, never going to go tan.

But, you know, you got to have it. Where did you live at the time?

In North County, San Diego. Carlsbad. You don't need a tanning bed. Exactly. Yeah.

That was the first time I went. I was like, why am I laying? And then I just go to the three hundred fifty days a year. Yeah, that's hilarious.

But it almost, you know, when you're that age and you're you're doing well, you think that some other some like a status symbol.

Did you sleep in that house by yourself when you were 17. No, I had three roommates. Oh God that's so great. They match one was a little bit older.

He was a good friend of mine, pro skater, and he was the only guy that actually had a job.

And he was tortured for like two years because we were up super late all the time making noise. And he'd have to get up at seven a.m., go to work. He was doing he was doing line stripping, like back when you'd have to separate for magazines and stuff like that.

Oh, bummer. For him, it's such a bummer. Yeah.

And still like he's still trying to make it as a prosecutor, but clearly he had to get a job and it must be an exhausted too.

Yeah. He would leave these kind of nasty notes for us in the morning.

So were you in high school or to your senior year in high school?

You had your own place. Did you do any schoolwork at all? I did, yeah. He must have been like, fuck this. I can buy a house. I don't know.

I think it was more because my parents valued education. My mom was an educator. She was actually like taught in college. Oh, wow.

So I felt that I was going to be a disappointment if I didn't at least graduate high school. And I was always pretty advanced like I was in the gifted program. And, you know, I was a grade ahead and a lot of the subjects. So by the time I was a senior, I only needed four classes to graduate.

So I went to school until lunchtime every day. And then I was out. Oh, wow.

And then I got my diploma and my dad.

Not strongly suggested I go look at colleges and so just to humor him, I went in looking like a, you know, a city college in our area and looked around the campus like, that's cool, I guess. Sure.

And I just knew that it was my opportunity to really chase this and to embrace all these opportunities I was getting. I mean, I was I was literally out of high school onto a Hollywood movie set, gleaming the Cube.

Oh, that's right.

So I was at graduate high school and then moved to North Hollywood for two months. That was like, what?

Eighty six? It was it was shot in eighty eight, I think. Eighty seven. Wow, got them remembering that now. Wow, what what a crazy way to go from being a young kid to right into your manhood. It's it's deceiving, though.

I mean, especially when you have that much success at a young age. You think you think it's never going to end. Right. You think you're invincible.

And I definitely sometimes treat it as such where I was just like, you know, just throwing money away. And like I said, my dad was encouraging me to save it. And then it all came crashing down in about like nineteen ninety one 92, where my my paycheck was all based on royalties of SCAP products and it started getting cut in half every month. Wow. Just from lack of interest, lack of sales.

Why did it drop it? Was it just a liability thing.

It was that and just skating was considered a fad. And it was just like and also my style of skating. I was I skated the ramps. Right. So I'm a great skater. Vert skating was just instantly not cool because street skating had taken over. So I was considered this dinosaur and it was just like, you're out. Skating's not cool and you're not cool in skating. Wow.

So it was it was rough, like, I would say sort of ninety two to ninety five ish were were very lean.

So you were trying to figure out like, hey, what am I doing. I got really good at this. Were you thinking I got to find something else to do.

Yes and no. I knew I wouldn't quit skating because I just loved it like I never did it for the money. You know, I started there were no no one could be rich or famous from skating. So that was never the objective.

It was just because I loved what it brought to me.

I love the self-confidence that brought to me. I love the creativity. I love the misfit crew, the the community of it. And so when things started to go south financially, I know when I quit, I just had to figure out how to make ends meet. And I actually had a video editing system and I learned how to do that very early. Like, right when non-linear video started happening, I had a system. So I started doing freelance work for companies, doing video editing, super random, some skate companies.

And then I did exhibitions like we were doing exhibitions in amusement park parking lots. We weren't even in the museum park. We're like in the parking lot as people walk in as entertainment, you know, and doing that for like one hundred bucks a day.

Wow.

But but it allowed me to skate and allowed me to pay the rent. And it was like that was good enough for me.

But were you thinking that this is going to stop? Totally.

Well, it was definitely felt like it was heading that way. Yeah. But like I said, I was trying to I was just trying to do whatever I could.

So I was trying to learn different skills and, you know, maybe skating wasn't going to pay the bills, but I couldn't let it go for my life.

Wow. That's a great story. It was in there and you brought it back. Yeah, I guess. I mean, a lot of ways, right?

It was it started to slowly come back, really, when the X Games came into play, whereas suddenly we were we were on TV and kids could see how much skating had evolved.

Well, the whole public could see how much skating it evolved from the time that they last saw it in the late 80s. And then they were seeing and it was just like, well, these guys are this is for real. You know, this is for lack of a better word. This is a sport. These guys are doing acrobatic things and it takes discipline and it takes it takes determination. And kids recognize that. And I think, you know, that's really when skating started to spark again.

And this is like 95 ish, probably more closer in ninety six.

Ninety seven, the first X Games was a little strange, little scattered because it was like skateboarding and bungee jumping and rock climbing and sky surfing, trying to figure out they were just throwing everything.

And then it really rubbed us the wrong way because suddenly we were labeled as extreme and it was like, what do you do?

I skateboard. Oh, you're into extreme sports. No, I skateboard. I don't know.

Yeah, that's a weird category, right? That extreme sport was just anything. Yeah. And that was I mean, it really was coined by ESPN.

So that's why they changed it to X Games.

So the first one was Extreme Games. Ninety five, they changed the X Games in ninety six. I think they really found their, their niche a few years later when they really sort of started to weed out all the random stuff and it was more about skateboarding, BMX, motocross, like those became really the highlights and the reason people are tuning in. And then that's when things really exploded.

And what were like the early skateboarding events and the X Games, like what it was, it was street and virt.

And so it came back. Yeah, yeah. A lot of it.

I think it was really because ESPN recognized that Evert is a spectator sport.

Yeah, I was going to say for us on the outside, we would watch it to see someone fall spectacularly. Yeah. Because sure.

Guys would go you would hit those ramps and you would watch people just fuck up and like, oh my God, look how far is falling, right?

Yeah, for sure.

And then once they got you know, once they evolved that into what they call the big er ramps, the mega ramps, then it was just like the, the aerials and the risk factor was tenfold.

Yeah. The risk factor. I mean I've seen some wipeouts that are just baffling, I think when when things started to really explode with that, with the big er thing.

And then Jake Brown had his big accident and one that kind of everyone saw went viral.

You probably seen him where he's just falling from, like, yeah, he's up.

That's when they started to I don't want to say tone it down, but but really they started to figure out how to do it in a way that is still progressive, but not just throwing caution to the wind and not just trying to break all the python spin records of how bad, you know, they really refined it.

He I mean, surprisingly, he I think he broke his hand, maybe his his heel and had like internal bruising.

But that's all it was. I mean, it was really unbelievably lucky. Yeah.

I watched that and I was like this guy, there's no way this guy is going to live.

And then. Yeah. And then and then, you know, they didn't have the proper protocol in place. They just let him walk off the ramp. It was nuts. Yeah, it was.

But but it was definitely a shock to the system. And like I said, they start to refine that event where it's just like, all right, you guys, you know, we're comfortable at the certain height.

Let's stick with that. Yeah.

Even all the skaters said it themselves. They're like, well, we can really work on new tricks at this height instead of trying to go to the moon. Go to the moon, right.

Yeah. It's just it was. Is there an issue with with skaters? Well, it's definitely a concern.

Yeah, I haven't I can't say that I know many examples of it, but I I'm not following people past their careers necessarily, you know, except for close friends, you know.

Jason Ellis, of course. Yeah, Ellis. I think he told me he's been knocked out like seven or eight times, like out cold.

I yeah, I definitely at least that for me. Huh?

Yeah, wow, I mean, I've had probably, by all accounts over the years, at least like 30, you know, either semi concussions or heavy, I'd say like three or four heavy concussions.

But got cold. Yeah, alcalde just three or four times woke up in the ambulance. Yeah. Um, and I don't take that lightly, like, I don't and especially with all the information that we have now and with all the research, I went and proactively tried to figure out if I'm susceptible because.

Did you get that gene?

I did, yeah. What does it apply for? Is that what it is? Yes, I believe so.

I do not have the gene that makes me susceptible. And I was even more concerned. I mean, because my my mom, she passed away recently, but she had Alzheimer's dementia. And it makes you more susceptible to Alzheimer's dementia, not just CTE. I mean, I'm I'm acting like a medical expert.

I just you know, I researched it enough to know that, OK, I'm not more at risk for that. But I don't you know, I'm not I'm not putting myself out there to be to have concussions anymore that. Well, I mean, I'm not doing those kind of moves that that I was getting knocked out on.

Have you done anything proactively to try to like I take supplements, stuff like that.

Yeah.

Mhm. Do you ever heard of NeuroFocus. No, no, no. Neuro one. Neuro one. There's Bill Romanowski, football player created it specifically because he was dealing with a lot of issues, memory issues and the like.

OK, because of head trauma. And it's like the first nootropic I ever tried. It's really good.

It's just like it's a bunch of nootropics that combined into delicious.

But you do feel like your mental capacity. Yeah, yeah. There's a bunch of stuff that I take the cracks me up alpha brain, which is one that my company makes and it makes there's another one on neuro gum. I really like just a gum that has no OK in it.

Um I'm willing to try. Yeah. I mean I would imagine any sort of supplement that would aid the function of your brain. Sure. Yeah.

Foggy or anything that I know I only had a couple of concussions that affected me for a longer period of time, like for a week where I couldn't focus or I had other, you know, physical issues.

And I don't feel any of those effects like that.

Now, you're down in San Diego. There's there's an area outside of San Diego that cats and gonna want to she's a UFC fighter and she fought Amanda Nunez, who's the Panama champion now currently. And she got a really bad concussion in that fight. It was really fucking her up to the point where her hormones were out of whack. Her cortisol levels were so fucked up she couldn't she couldn't keep weight off. Her whole body was just a mess. She was having a hard time with her coordination and she went to the center that they do some sort of magnetic therapy for people with brain injuries, and it stimulates growth in those areas of the brain that have been damaged and brought her back to normal.

For how long that take?

It took a few months. I mean, she was going on a regular basis and it was quite a trek for her. I think it was more than an hour drive back and forth. And she was doing it, I think, every day.

And I believe the center was developed because, you know, San Diego has so much so much military down there.

I believe that's why I live there.

My dad was in the Navy and I love San Diego. Oh, me too. I'm not leaving.

And the mayor actually just asked to go into stage three. They made a request in San Diego to go in the stage three of the recovery from coronaviruses.

Like everything's great down here. Let's I know the rest of the city or the rest of the state is having issues in some spots, particularly Los Angeles. But he feels ready to rock and roll and push.

I keep getting different, different views, different news, different different guidelines.

Yeah, I don't you know, I'm just kind of like I'm go out wearing a mask.

I'm doing, you know, trying to follow the guidelines as possible, as much as possible while still leading a relatively normal life.

Yeah, it's a weird time, right. It's yeah.

And the strange part to me is the the, the great divide in terms of, for instance, my daughter loves to get bagels in the morning before school, so I still try to do that with her sometimes so she can feel like we're doing a normal school day even before she goes online.

And the bagel shop says, like face mask required and people just walk in without him and give you dirty looks for wearing the mask.

And it's just like I'm just following the rules of the place. Yeah. Just like this isn't some war of politics here. I'm just following what they're asking me to do. That's so weird.

Yeah, it's it's really it's like they're making a stand by not. I'm like, OK, well, you know, it's the same thing. There's no shirt, no shoes, no shirt. No service like except your stinky feet doesn't get someone sick, you know? I mean, it's it's a little different.

It's a fucking weird time and it's a weird time politically. It seems like the coronaviruses is a line in the sand politically.

Absolutely. Yeah. It's a strange time.

And like I said, I'm just, you know, doing my best to follow the guidelines, the experts, and and still try to maintain a semblance of normalcy for my family so that, you know, we feel like we.

There is light at the end of the tunnel. Yeah, we all feel that way. Yeah, it's just California in particular is very restrictive state when it comes to the recovery.

And maybe that's a good thing. Maybe that's a bad thing. We really won't know for months, you know. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. All the dust settles. I'm still there. Certain appearances and events and things that have been so-called postponed.

Some are still are very optimistic where they think, OK, we're going to do it in July.

Like you think so? I don't know. Or August or we're going to push it back. And it's just I just don't know what to believe. And, you know, I got a I got a schedule for doing some promotional stuff for our video game coming out in September. And it's like, OK, August, go into Europe like, are you sure?

I don't know what we're going to be let in. Am I gonna have to wait in quarantine for two weeks when I land? Like, I don't know.

Yeah, I have a bunch of dates. I've got one in July in Vegas and then I've got a bunch in New Orleans. I got one in New Orleans, one in Nashville with Chappelle. And we're just like, hopefully it happens. Yeah, but it's like September 4th and 5th. Like really I mean, I mean, maybe it's I never thought this was going to happen.

I never thought we'd be sitting around in May going, there's no way we're going to be open in August. I thought it was just going to be we closed down for a month. You know, we take this financial hit, but, you know, the virus settles down. Everybody can get back to where we get testing or whatever, whatever takes place, some sort of therapeutic, you know, relief, something where that comes along, some sort of a treatment.

No, no, I am not. Yeah, yeah. I don't. Yeah.

It's weird to remember when when a couple of my events got canceled and I was in shock then. Right. And now I'm more in shock that they're trying to reschedule.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's, it's interesting how quickly you get used to this new normal too. Right now when I watch movies people are hugging and handshake and I'm like, oh oh yeah, yeah.

I had I was going to be in this commercial.

I mean, I don't know, they want me to say what it is or whatever, but but they had to delay because there's like, yeah, it's not the right time for going out.

But we know we didn't shoot it.

Right. Right, right. Yeah. It doesn't matter.

We didn't shoot yesterday. That's so weird. Like perception. I just just just the appearance of.

Yeah. I mean I understand there was got to be careful and whatever. I'm just I was just super excited to be in it. So I was like no.

But statistically at least San Diego seems to have taken it much better than Los Angeles to in terms of like fatalities. And one of the superintendents was a supervisor.

A superintendent said that there's only six deaths that can be directly attributed to nothing but coronavirus. Then everything else had people with underlying causes, which is pretty extraordinary. Oh, wow. Yeah.

I don't know if he's right though. Yeah. I mean, yeah, he's a conservative. So hard to know what to believe to.

That's a problem, right. Yeah. Yeah. That's the problem when you like. San Diego is a really healthy place. Like every time I'm down there like Pacific Beach where like people are always running and biking, it's like.

Yeah, especially like County Dorsi. Yeah. I would imagine just that alone would lend itself to people having stronger immune systems.

I would hope so. But like I said, it's still it's still feels like a great divide even there. Really. Yeah.

Where people, you know, when they open the beaches and then there was only one beach in our area open and it was like spring break, just nuts.

Yeah.

And then, you know, people are frustrated with each other. What are you doing? You know, put everyone at risk and it just it was a mess. Nothing like right now it's closed down for good and then everyone just goes up to Newport or wherever they can and then more crowded there. And it's just it was it was a mess. Well, their ideas are pretty open now, right?

It's not the new thing. You can go surfing, but you can't park on the beach. Oh, that's so stupid. Which is which is very challenging. But hey, at least for surfing.

But that's so dumb. Why can't you park there if you're like, what's happening to people when they park?

It's like some of these rules are so arbitrary. Um, yeah.

And like and you never know what you know.

What is the rule now changes day by day, but it does feel like there's definitely a slow opening happening.

Um, so when we're talking about San Diego being like very fit place, do you do any sort of strength and conditioning or anything for skateboarding? Is that something that people do?

Some people do it. I never found it to help my skating. And I always felt like skating kept me fit. So I never really did it. I mean, outside of. Swimming and surfing, which is more of a body than skating, obviously, but but I do feel like that would have benefited me later in life. I just got stuck in my mode and then just skating was and you stay there, you're in your mode now.

You don't do anything. I don't do anything else.

I do I do make an effort to, like, swim some laps because my mom lived till her 90s and she swore by swimming.

I swam. Amazing. Yeah. Yeah.

She would go, you know, through I mean, I remember all as a kid, she would definitely she had to get her 20 laps in every day.

And we are are where I live, the residential area had a community swimming pool that was like Olympic size.

Oh yeah, we were talking before about surfing and I was saying that I think that surfing, at least partially, would kind of mimic some of the muscles that you use in skateboarding. And then you telling me about getting towed in Philadelphia.

Yes. While you drink his coffee. Wow.

Yeah.

So, well, my brother my older brother was a surfer and he got me into skating because he skated in the 70s when that was the thing was they were trying to emulate surfing with skateboards. And so he actually gave me one of his old boards was my first skateboard. And then he would drive me to the skate park once a week, like come home from college and take me to the park. And then I just got hooked. Like, that was that was my home away from home from that point on.

And so I surf pretty regularly.

I would say less now, but but it was hard not to with my brother's influence.

And we were in Hawaii. My brother actually used to be the editor of Surfer magazine.

So he knows all. Wow.

Because he's he's a journalist, really good writer, teaches at Stanford now, actually.

And so we went to Hawaii. We went to Maui and he said, hey, Laird said he'd take us out, tow in surfing. If you want to go, we're going to go to Windsor with Laird Hamilton like that.

I don't think his level of what is mellow is something that is what we would consider. And he and I go, but, you know, we got to go like once in a lifetime, right.

So they took us out to Spreckels, which is near Jaws, which is their big spot. This is like early 2000s.

So Toine, surfing was just starting to come into play.

I'll never forget Dave KMA, who's one of the surfers, one of his homies, he was trying out the first foil board there.

Oh, wow. And he had he was wearing ski boots attached to the foil board.

That's how he was riding it. I was like, these guys are out of their minds and and so detached like a ski boot if you fall.

I never saw it attach. Oh, my God, yeah, so you have to recover and swim to the surface while you're permanent, I was focused on trying to survive myself to worry about what he was doing. But yeah.

So Rush Randall is another windsurfer there. He was telling me and Larry is telling my brother, and I'll never forget them being outside.

And then, you know, they're saying it's a small day and they're like, oh, I think they might be like some 10 or 12 foot sets. And I know, what, 10 or 12 foot in Hawaiian measurement means.

And I was like, just don't tell me in one of those, OK?

And and then I'll never forget looking out.

And Rush said, here comes one where because you're so far out, right. And he's like, get ready, OK.

And so then I got ready and I'm getting towed. And all of a sudden this thing, this mountain just swells up underneath me. And before I know it, I'm just in the pit of this this where there was like double overhead.

Biggest way I've ever ridden for sure. And for me, it's backside. So when you're going backside, you're just sort of looking down the line.

You're not looking back at the at the barrel. What does that mean? My backside. So the wave is breaking this way and my boss coming over the back is to the face of the wave. Oh OK. Right.

And it backslides a little more challenging just because the turning and the way you're facing. So when you go in front side you're facing the wave. You can really see down the line, you can look back easily.

So I'm going back side and I remember looking, looking at the wall thinking like I've ridden 20 foot skate ramps and I'm like, that's that looks like about a 20 foot skate ramp.

So I was going and I was cruising and then I did a little cutback.

So I started going back towards the barrel and I looked at the barrel and it was like the most frightening thing I've ever seen in my life because it was, you know, it was like a massive hollow wave that you see in movies that you see they're just dancing around in.

And I'm like, I can't I'm not getting near that thing.

And I immediately just turned back and went down even further to get ahead of it. And then I did find myself after a few waves getting cocky and I tried to pull into the barrel and it just clobbered me in the head. And then I you know, you were in a life vest and then I went down. I'll never forget, like, I felt myself going down one shelf and, you know, trying to swim up to the top. And then I felt it go down another shelf.

And I was like, oh, I was bad.

And then finally made it up to the surface.

And Rush is like three feet from me. Wow. Because he's just been chasing these guys are they're the Masters experts and you're covering people that get clobbered.

Yeah. Fuck. And I was just like, how long were you down for?

It wasn't it wasn't like a crazy hole down. But in my inexperience and not conditioned body, it felt like a long time. And I and I told Rush I was like, oh, that was so scary.

I never have been held down that much. It's like, yeah, I've had my worst hold downs out here.

Thanks.

I was telling you, you know, I get in the sauna every day and I said something to Larry and he sent me a picture of his sauna.

Pull it up here.

It's he's at. 250 fucking degrees in his sauna. I mean, I don't even understand why he would do that, but he's like, I'm pissed that this thing doesn't go any hotter. Yeah, he lives on a different plan.

He gets in there with oven mitts at two hundred fifty degrees out. Here it is. Look at this crazy motherfucker. Look at that.

So does he where met so his skin won't melt off yet because he rides his fucking aerodyne bike. So the middle of the Erdan bike would literally cook him.

I mean I cook a steak at two hundred and fifty degrees and the smoker. This is crazy and it's two hundred. It's actually like it's pinned at two fifty because that's as hot as this thermostat. Oh yeah. Right. Like it's probably hotter than two fifty. He's out of his fucking nuts and he's more is always better is his his quote to me.

I just there's got to be a point. I did it once here.

I was trying to after he came on the podcast, I was trying to copy him. So I was doing it like two ten and I did once a 220. I was burning like the inside of my throat from breathing in the air. I was I felt like, oh yeah.

Kicking myself because I was in there for like twenty minutes like and then I'd get out and it was as tired as I've ever been in my life. I oh just collapse on the mats. After I got out of the song I was like, I got to stop doing this. And then I come in and do podcasts like I was having a hard time talking.

I was like like my throat was cooked. It was basically getting cooked. Yeah. I never did well with that stuff.

We, we got one actually we got one of the Infra-Red ones.

Those are different those he doesn't like the infrared ones. Leonard said that they gave him a real bad skin condition and that like there's something about particularly the temperature is putting him out.

Yeah, well, I got to start somewhere. I'm not going.

Well, I think the dry heat, it's like that's where the studies have been done on them. And I'm sure there's some benefits to the infrared one. But according to him, he's not into it.

Yeah, well, I don't like I said, I don't really do anyway. My wife, my kids, they like going in there, but I guess they go in for a little bit and like, we'll watch one episode or something. And I'm like, OK, I'm done.

Have you done his crazy water workouts? No way. No, I would never survive that. Not no. I have a bunch of friends that have gone up there and train with them. Then they just text me afterwards.

What the fuck.

Yeah, because he's just not no one no one can can go easy.

No he's not. There's no easy with Larry. There's only two speeds. I was telling you about his ankle. He came in here and showed me his ankle is an ankle that broke that he never did anything to he never bothered getting a cast. He never bothered getting it surgery. And it's like the root of a tree.

It's this fucked up thick ass knee of an ankle. It's so weird and like, wow, that's next level. He's just a next level human. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, I, I respect and admire him, but I don't want him to train me by his workouts are so crazy like they take a 75 pound dumbbell and they swim with it like the whole seventy five pound dumbbell and then you're swimming across the pool with one arm while holding the seventy five pound dumbbell while trying to pop your head up and breathe. Oh ok. Yeah whatever.

Yeah. So not, not my conditioning but I like that there's a guy like that out there for sure.

I think it's important leading the charge. Yeah. Just some fucking maniac. Exactly.

Who's just so he's so psycho about everything. The guy sends you a two hundred and fifty degree some of it. He's mad that doesn't get any higher.

Just it's so interesting.

But I think like in terms of a guy like that who's like a world famous big wave surfer guy, you almost have to have that kind of mentality. And I would imagine the same thing, at least in some way, has to transfer over to skating and to kind of everything, right?

I think so. I think I think that there's a well, there's one there's an adventurous spirit, but also there is a sense of self-confidence that you gain and that you explore like you want to see how much further you can take it. You know, you want to test the limits. And I identify with that for sure.

That's always been my drive to come up with new tricks like I knew the first time I ever did a trick, like a new trick and one that hadn't been done before. The buzz that I got from it was what I've been chasing my whole life. You know, the idea that I created something new, like just on my own with my own thoughts and creativity and that like I did in my own way and, you know, skateboarding was like that.

It was like this art form to me where there's this blank canvas and this just like, go make it your own.

Oh, that's an interesting way to look at it. I never thought of it that way. Yeah. I mean, it really is cool to look at. So it is an art form. Sure.

And like you could show me a picture of two people doing the same trick, silhouette it and I could tell you who it is. Oh, you know what I mean?

Because everyone has their own style and they put their own flavor on it. And that's what I love.

Like, I love that it's it's subjective like that. You know, people think of it like they don't like skaters themselves, especially the more hardcore purists don't like to be called a sport.

Like we're not a sport like, well, there's legitimate competitions. So.

Yeah, and there is a sporting element to it.

But I agree it is more of an art form and a lifestyle because how can you're comparing apples and oranges always.

That's real similar in a lot of ways to martial arts in that like if I saw a silhouette of certain people, I'd say, oh, that's you know, that's John Jones and that's John McCain. Like you could tell by the way, someone moves like right away.

Yeah. You just because you put your stamp on it. Yeah, that's what I love about it, because it's so diverse.

Yeah. When you come up with a move like, what's your process? You just skate, fuck around, have some fun and then go, oh, I just try this.

It's always different. A lot of times it's like, how do we combine, how can I combine these two things that I know I have dialed in? Like can I make them work together? Sometimes it's a happy accident. Like you go try something, your board spins the other way and it's like, well, wait, if I caught it there, that would have worked out yesterday.

I literally created a new trick yesterday. Yesterday. Yeah. Because we are doing this.

When will this er tomorrow. Tomorrow.

What we're doing up, we're doing sort of a we called it NBD best trick event at my ramp and it's never been done.

And so my idea was that and this is all this love come out, but my idea was a while. We're all stuck, you know, doing this social distancing and whatnot. Let's do a best trick event where everyone gets one hour on my ramp, all the best vert skaters. So you get one hour to do a trick on video.

So it's literally just one dude and one one skater and one filmer at the ramp at a time. And I was the guinea pig. So yesterday morning was like, all right, you're the first hour go.

And and I had to come up with this trick and I started trying one that I had been working on and it just kept slipping away, like getting worse every attempt. And so I went I went and sort of switched gears into a trick that I had tried a couple months ago and was like, if you're ever going to make this happen, this is it.

And finally, one just clicked and I made it.

And it was like it was it was the combination of tricks that I have pretty dialed. But putting them together added this element of of just so much to to miss.

Hmm.

Like they, you know, everything had to come together at the exact moment and land on my feet on the coping in the right position. And and I knew if I got it once I'd make it. But like, I'm never gonna do that again.

That's how technical it is now, where I just know that, OK, I got that one done it got on video.

I don't want to go through that again. Now, how much.

I don't know shit about skating.

So like, forgive me if there's an ignorant question, but how much improvement has there been in the wheels, in the boards and the components and all and all the different things like are there things you can do now? Today they just really weren't possible when you first started skating?

Only in the well, when I first started skating, skateboards were all over the place. So they were made of different materials. They were different, like all different shapes. They, you know, Urethane had just come into play.

But I would say for the last thirty years, it's pretty much the same.

Construction mean seven plywood, maple skateboards, trucks have not changed. Wheels have changed in size and hardness. But it's still the same urethane for the most part.

So there hasn't been a lot of huge advancements. The big the big changes are the shapes of the boards.

Now, why have they stuck with plywood? What about like carbon fiber?

And you know, that that is that's the big question and something that I would like to pursue. But we really need a sea change in skateboarding with materials.

I believe that. Yeah.

And we we haven't found anything that that responds the same. Hmm. Or, you know, the other thing is skaters, as much as they are very progressive and, you know, they like to.

We do different things and got to think outside the box and whatnot, if you try to sell them a deck that's, you know, two hundred bucks, that's going to be hard, even if you can convince them that it's going to last three times long, four times long.

So is it just a money thing or they just haven't really felt like there's some some people have done different construction where they add a different ply in and that has worked a little bit.

But like I said, there just hasn't been that one seed planted where it's like, all right, this is it.

I would imagine carbon fiber.

I, I tried something along those lines and it just, like I said, didn't have that reflex.

Does it have to have a certain amount of weight to it too? Because that that. Well, that's the other thing. We're kind of stuck where this is.

This is how skeeball should weigh. Right. And so if you bring in something, it's way lighter. Maybe that's not the answer. But we don't know. It just takes R&D for sure.

And you would have to get someone really good to fuck with it, too, right?

You into believe in it and get behind it. Yeah. When I was a kid, there was no 50 year old rock stars, you know, or, you know, 10 sort of rock stars as they were in their 20s and 30s. And then they just kind of like we thought they faded away like the Beach Boys.

Everybody felt sad about the Beach Boys and all that, but not anymore.

You know, now Mick Jagger is like fucking almost 80 years old and he's rocking after heart surgery and shit.

And the same is true with skaters. Right? Because when when we were kids, when you became famous, you were you were like the first wave. Right. Or one of the first waves and certainly the most famous. You're 52 and you're still like, is that a weird thing that you're it is weird.

It's it's well, it's fun.

It's great that you can still do it and then you're still, you know, I mean, you're also it's not like you're a dinosaur. You're accepted like you're you're a skater. It's like just you just happen to be 52, you know? I mean, yeah, it well, it went through the years. So when I first started skating, the the sort of unspoken rule was once you're at an age of responsibility, you're 18, you've got to get a job.

No, you can't skate for a living. No one can. So, you know, you're skating. Career is over by then.

And then as I turned 18, things started to sort of ramp up with skating, forgive the pun, but and things started to kind of explode.

And I remember around that time there was a photo in Thrasher of this guy, Mark Lake, who was an older skater at the time, and he was a picture of him doing one of those hand plant like upside down in the ramp.

And it was like mach like thirty and still going for it.

And I remember I was like in my early twenties thinking, that's crazy.

He's thirty.

And then as things progressed, like, we realized that that we're all sort of if we're if we're able to do this for a living and we can really pursue it and we have support, we are we're getting better into our 30s.

I mean, you know, when I did the nine hundred the X Games, I was thirty one.

Wow.

And so then it was just like, well, what is the limit? I don't know. I guess I'm sort of the guinea pig now are leading the charge of what how far you can take it.

And I've definitely refined my style.

So I'm not doing big impact stuff. I'm not doing the more, you know, the big spins, the big arrows and stuff. I've learned to get more technical with my skating. And that has allowed me to stay creative but maintain my health.

Yeah, that's why I was asking you about strength and conditioning, because if you're an older athlete, it's it's a mandatory thing in almost every sport. Yeah.

It's just I skate for a couple hours a day, I'd say four times a week, and that's pretty much my exercise.

But definitely I could use some help with endurance these days.

What have you thought about doing something like what would you do? I don't know. I guess I would listen to the experts. I mean, I would tap you well, but you haven't done anything. Yeah, which is amazing. I haven't.

Yeah, but like I said, it's just because that's worked for me pretty much my whole life. Yeah.

My, my only really ailment is my neck.

What's wrong with you.

Not just I've had so many whiplash is like just you know, we call them chicken necks because you shoot out and I've had so many like different ways that whenever I'm like if I'm sitting here and some would call me over there, when I go to turn to look at them, they'll definitely say, like, what's wrong with your neck?

That happens to me every day. And I'm like, what's wrong with my neck?

I don't know, 40 years.

What, have you got an MRI? Yeah, and I do. That's the only thing that I get. Worked on, so there's a guy near where I live who does chiropractic, but also does a lot of body work and he just works on my neck once a week, just massages it. Yeah. Yeah.

Have you tried to lose a thing called an iron neck? Yes.

If you ever use that. I did try, but it was just awkward.

Yeah, it's awkward, but it's really good. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's a must have thing for grapplers. You should really try it, OK.

Because I did it when we, I did sort of this racing training with Cadillac a couple of years ago and they're racers do that.

OK, that makes. Yeah. Checking the checking and mirrors. Yeah.

Well it's great for fighters too. Strong neck to keep your head from snapping around. No one imagine the same thing would happen with skaters. Yeah. I've got one out here. You should try it after we're done here. It's I swear by the thing. It's it's the belt and it's also it doesn't fuck with your neck in a way that's an unnatural in terms of putting weight on your head and flexing right. Your disks, it actually keeps your neck stiff as well as, you know, when you're when you're turning it, it doesn't bend in unnatural angles and it still strengthens it.

I'm a giant fan of it.

OK, well, I'm open to the idea because I would think that, like the whiplash thing, that's that's got to be real simple, similar to what happens with fighters, you know, like.

Oh yeah. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. It's weird though.

A lot of like a lot of my peers, they have more knee problems and ankle problems and I've just realized all minds on my neck.

You never had any any problems. I've had I had surgery. I tore my meniscus in both knees, actually got it cut out, tore my PCL, but always came back from it.

That's amazing. Yeah.

I mean, I feel I feel pretty lucky.

I was always very flexible as a kid, so I know that that was to my advantage for sure. Oh, for sure. And like I said, when I went through the sort of street era of the early nineties, I was rolling my ankles left and right. So I never actually broke an ankle. But but they're loose.

They've got to play.

Yeah. Yeah. I was really bummed out, man, because I was seeing that they were trying to keep these kids out of the skate park.

Yeah. So they filled it with saying, I know.

See that. Yeah. What the fuck man?

I mean, how much of an effort did it take to do that and why that was that was very strange. But I'm going to get that sand out of there now. Yeah, I know.

Well, you know what? If if they say skate parks, they're open, the skaters will do it. They're very.

Yeah, they're they're all very DIY resourceful.

It's just like I did see some fun helicopter footage on a news feed where there were some guys that actually dug a sort of a path so that they could skate through the park.

So they cleared out one area and they kept trying, like this guy was trying to get a trick on video.

So he kept trying the same trick and the helicopters just shoot him. I was like, what world are we living in?

So strange. But imagine like being in an office somewhere, whatever, you know, government office know, like, well, how do we stop these skateboarders? Yeah, I'm going to have to truck in some sand.

So they use our money, these tax money, probably a lot of it too. If you think about how much sand that must have got, it seem like a big effort.

Yeah, fucking giant effort. How irony is that is that they're trying to keep skaters out of public areas and schoolyards and stuff and give them a place to go.

But now you're just forcing them back to those days.

Yeah, it's not like they're going to stop going to staircases and railings.

Nothing could do it more now. It's so dumb. But all of this sort of exposes some of the flaws and governance. You know, just it's very scattered.

Well, skateboarding, too, it's it's almost like some people would think of it as a frivolous activity. You sure like. Yeah.

Glorious results of a misspent youth, if you know how to. Oh, absolutely. We're on a skateboard.

Yeah, it's funny. The when I first started, I have a foundation for public skate parks. We've been on twenty years actually.

How does that work really? Well we we basically give communities the resources to get a park going, like if they, if someone in the community has started a petition or fundraising or just raising awareness that they need a park, we sort of give them the roadmap to do that and funding to do it. Oh, that's amazing. And, you know, design help and things like that.

So it's been great. We've we've helped to fund over nine hundred skate parks. Now all fifty states, we've given away almost ten million dollars.

That's incredible. Yeah.

I mean it's definitely my proudest work but but so cool when when I started it there was a point where I was we're trying to get funding and trying to raise awareness and you know, I'm doing I'm doing visits to children's cancer wards and stuff like that.

And at some point I was like, I'm trying to build skate. And I remember this conversation had very vividly, actually, with Lance Armstrong when and this is when he was the face of cancer research. You know what I mean? Like say what you will about his competitive career. But he did so much for cancer awareness and research. And I'm visiting Children's Hospital with Lance Armstrong.

And Lance Armstrong walks into a cancer ward back then, like the C's part, you know what I mean?

It was just like this. It was like, oh, he's here. And I remember having lunch with him that day. And I was like, it's so weird to be with you. You're you're doing so much for for cancer and cancer victims. And I'm just trying to build. Playgrounds.

Yeah, like, you know, concrete waves and he said he said, look, the the number one cause of cancer or no, you know, number two cause of cancer in the US is obesity.

And by building those skate parks, you are preventing cancer. You're preventing obesity. Wow. And that was heavy for me. That is heavy. And it really gave me a lot of inspiration, you know, and a lot more motivation.

Well, you creating a potential place for joy. Right.

And for, you know, for people to like minded people to hang out, like to develop a community. I mean, when I was a kid, like, I felt like an outcast.

I felt like like I didn't belong in in sports. I didn't belong in my school. And when I went to the skate park and there was this band of misfits listening to punk music and look, you know, weird hairdos from all walks of life, I was like, this is it.

This is my crew. And I want the same sense of community for, you know, we're not trying to build training grounds for Olympians. We're just trying to build a place for them to feel like they belong and feel like their community actually cares about them.

Yeah, and it is a loved pursuit.

I mean, even though it's had these weird views like or people that have had weird views about it, if you think about how many people love it and how it requires this sort of a place like what you're creating.

Right. To really do it right. And nowadays, it's way different now that the the sort of perspective on skating or the attitude toward skating is that parents are dealing with their kids like, you know, and little girls are encouraged to try it.

And that just wasn't the case when I was a kid. Like, I think it's because of you in a lot of ways. Oh, well, thank you. I mean, I was always happy to at least advocate for skating and try to explain to people like this has a real positive impact on kids. You're you're you're too focused on the hairdos and the music and stuff.

You got to really look at what it provides someone's mentality.

Yeah, but that's always been the case with things that kids do that their parents didn't do. Sure. Like how many parents told their kids to stop playing video games and now kids are literally making millions of dollars playing video games. And parents have to kind of make this adjustment like, OK, yeah, OK. I didn't know.

I think the generation of parents now grew up at a time when skating was starting to be cool. Yeah, OK. So either they're encouraging of their kids skating or they're actually skating with them.

That's awesome. That's kind of make you feel good, which is very cool. Real impact on the thing that you love. Yeah.

I mean the coolest part is for me is that I still get to participate and I get to bear witness to all this like the oldest skater.

Is there a really old dude out there shredding? Sure.

I mean, the like even that some of the Zebu guys like Tony Alva still skates. I just saw for grinding a pool.

He's sixty something. Holy shit.

But when you fall at sixty something. Yeah. That's rugged. Yeah.

Well like it's I'm like I said, I've kind of narrowed down my discipline to the ramp because I know how to fall on a ramp where the pads and that's what's kept me going.

But even that, that's why I'm encouraging strength and conditioning.

Like when I see people in their 50s that are doing things, I'm like, OK, but do you lift weights because you should, you know, really, like, just kind of fucking trainer man, just keep your bone density. That's that's what's really a real problem. When people get older, their shit breaks so easy. Right.

Things that normal you just bounce off of and be fine. And then all sudden you're like, there's some clicking in my arm, like, oh shit, I got to go to a hospital and then, you know, a normal fall causes you to have a cast.

Yeah, I learned that. Well, I broke my pelvis. Oh, I was almost forty. I was nervous.

I was doing a loop ramp, which is something that I had done many times before that.

And the loop that we were skating was kind of weathered and kind of slow. And I tried to adjust for that and I just overshot it like I shot out at the top and it just fell straight to the bottom. That's got to affect you.

Jamie broke his butt bone out here with a hoverboard and he was fucked up. You were fucked up for, like a year, right?

Yeah, it came. It came and went. I thought I got fixed, couldn't get fixed. No one. I went to new what was going on.

It took he had a self identify what the injury was and then who was it that had a similar injury.

Zack better came and said he had his ass, got MRI. The doctor told him he was OK and then they, he looked at it was like, hey, by the way, you have a small fracture. And like, yeah, we're.

And it just like your whole body. Freezes up. I could walk for, like, twenty five yards at a stop and sit, yeah, loosen up. I had the same thing and you know, those hoverboard things that I want, my kids have them out here and they go bananas out here in the warehouse. And yeah, Jamie was fucking around on it while not totally paying attention, just trying to contact us and see if I could film and stuff and like it, you know, be.

Yeah. And we didn't really figure out what what it was until Zack Bitta explained it. And then we thought about the I mean, you're you're a two hundred pound man or whatever.

You weigh somewhere around there and fall like on policy for sure, on your asshole. Like that's that's a lot of weight. Like but first, do you know Zac better is I don't.

He's the world record holder for a 100 mile race. He ran one hundred miles in 11 hours and like 40 minutes.

He's a savage. I mean, just bananas. And then he kept running afterwards.

Can't two hundred miles the longer the fastest to run one hundred miles on a treadmill because he was doing it in quarantine, I think. Oh, my God. Wow.

And he eats mostly meat, really. His diet is almost all rib eye steaks.

And now he he supplements it with like some glucose supplements and things like that while he's while he's doing he did it again. Zac better shatters hundred mile treadmill world record. Oh my God. He averages seven minute mile, seven minute eight mile for fucking one hundred miles. That's so insane. That's saying he's an animal. How old is he? He's in his 30s, right, Jimmy? Thirty four.

Yeah, yeah. But say he was still he was still running while he had the problem, too. Oh, yeah. Crazy.

So when I when I went through that, the thing that I had to adjust mostly was that I didn't realize I was favoring my back foot when I would skate because the fracture of my pelvis was on my front leg, front leg side, and I ended up injuring something.

I actually got a once because I was leaning back more than I should have been.

And I thought I was balanced and then found myself just on my back like, oh, shit.

And then another time I was putting so much weight because when you when you skate, you put one foot on the tail of the board. And I was trying to get speed for something going on the big ramp. And I had so much force on my tail that I broke it off, like going through the flat bottom of the ramp.

My tail just was left behind me with my foot doing the splits. That's so crazy.

But and I realized that that's when I realized that I needed to readjust my weight distribution because of my pelvis and try to figure out how to how to skate properly again. Wow.

Now, how do you recover from that? Did you have to go through the rehabilitation? Did you? I basically laid around, sat around for almost two months and then slowly started to walk. And then I was skating about like six weeks after not walking.

And so you didn't do any rehab?

Um, I did some stuff in the pool. I did have I did have a trainer that was helping me and a guy that I knew that used to work on skate stuff.

So he did help me for a few weeks.

And then I started skating. It was actually I was I was working towards a goal. We had a big exhibition in Orlando that was already booked.

And I was like, all right, that's that's the time many weeks out was that I want to say it was it was about 12 weeks from when I got hurt.

Oh, wow. That's not a lot of time. Yeah. To recover from a bone break.

Yeah. I mean, I you know, I didn't I wasn't my best performance, not my best work, but I got through it and then really had to figure out how to rebuild my confidence.

That's the thing I lost the most because I started to question everything I can only imagine.

So mostly just laying around, let it heal up. And then you had to do something to build your muscle mass.

I was doing I was doing a lot of stuff in the pool with resistance. Oh, my leg and stuff like that. That was that was pretty much it. It was just more I just felt stiff.

And like he said, like, when you have an injury like that, you can't cough, like, you know what I mean. You can't like sneezing if you feel a sneeze coming on is it's traumatic.

Right, because everything hurts. Yeah. It's about a shot. Yeah. And then like just going to the bathroom is a trauma.

Oh God. Right. Just sitting right on the bowl like Christ.

Oh damn dude. Wow.

That's amazing though that you, you got through that with pool work but you could do some great shit in the pool. George St. Pierre is like one of the best UFC fighters of all time. Does the majority of his workouts in the pool now he has these things that he wears on his hands, these resistance things, and he does like all these crazy workouts in the pool and he does them on his legs and he does like these jumps inside the pool and he does it all to preserve his joints while still, you know, building up muscle.

So he's mostly focused on the pool. Yes. See if we can find them. They're pretty cool to George St. Pierre. The pool workouts. Yeah, he has. I mean, he's he's a fascinating guy, really intelligent guy. And he's gone through a bunch of different kinds of strength and conditioning routines and attitudes about it over his career. And at one point in time, he really embraced gymnastics and he got really into gymnastics. But now most of what he does, he goes to the pool and see these things.

He's wow. Yeah. He's got like these like barbel looking things and a bunch of different different apparatus that he uses. And the he has these things he puts on his legs and he develops is his kicking power and his jumping power and all these different things. That's up my alley. Right.

It's really interesting because you're really not concerned about getting injured this way, but he gets this ferocious muscle workout and he doesn't have to worry about tearing things or, you know, hurting himself because of weight. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

Well, I'm going to leave here with a whole new attitude. Yeah, well, it's working out OK. Sure thing to try, especially for someone. It was funny.

That was that was one of the things that when I told my kids I was coming here to like, he's going to talk to you about working out, you know.

I'm sure, and they go, but you don't work out OK, I know fucking kids. They never let you take a break. They ride you if they find this one thing.

Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah. What about your diet? Are you healthy? Do you eat healthier? I think so.

Yeah, I was. That's it. That's iffy.

Well, let's put it this way, I, I don't need to excess like I used to. I think that's really what I've learned.

Getting older is just like don't go crazy with everything, you know, drinking, eating like just eat till you're not overly full.

Just eat enough and watch what I eat.

Like for sure, when I was a kid, it was just all it was all junk food, everything. It was sugar, cereals, McDonalds, Jack-In-The-Box.

I mean, our our big going out night with my dad was Bob's big boy.

That was like we are live in Burbank, you know, in San Diego. OK, yeah, that was it. I mean, like, I don't I never went to nice places.

The extent of his nice places like this place, that's prime rib for five bucks.

OK, so I didn't like I didn't really grow up with health health conscious diet. And then as I got older, I discovered, well, mostly just so much great food and then realizing that, you know, I've got to get more greens and really watch it.

And so I managed to be able to do that, I'd say, over the last twenty years. Do you take supplements at all? I do, yeah. Well, yeah, yeah.

I take I have a whole bevy of stuff this nutritionist gave me. I wish I could Nimal, but I just know which bottles they are.

But it's good and makes you feel better. Definitely.

I can tell when I, when I've missed a day or two on them. I mean just in terms of how I feel.

Well people are so much more conscious of that now. I mean, it's, it's, it's something that pretty much in every athletic pursuit, anything where people are doing things physically so much more really conscious of supplements and diet.

And but I but I do have to admit that I do love like barbecue.

Of course, you know that my wife. Not much of a fan, really.

Yeah. What's wrong with her? She's she's much more healthy and she's she's more Mediterranean.

Oh, OK. In terms of her diet, have you ever gone to Dr. Högni while I was in Venice. No, there's a joint in Venice. It's been around fucking forever. You go in there, it's like wood paneled walls. They've done zero for the decor and no one gives a fuck. There's always a line. Expect more when it's open right now. But some of the best barbecue I've ever had anywhere. And it's in Van Nuys and in semi's sketchy neighborhood.

Oh, perfect. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's phenomenal.

There's a place in San Diego that I've been gone called Abbi's that I think is pretty spectacular. That's my my daughter loves barbecue too. So that's our big lunch outing.

San Diego has got some great food. Man, I've been going to San Diego forever. Started going to the local comedy store. Yeah, of course. Way back in the 90s.

Yeah. It's a great spot, man.

And I might have actually seen you there. That's crazy. San Diego's never gotten too big, you know.

Right. It's yeah.

I try to tell people it's one of the last small beach towns, but it's a city like you don't think it's you fan out, especially if you go north. Yeah. It's more like no one can really build on the coastline anymore.

So the homes are there there and it's not going to get any more crowded.

Hmm. OK, that makes sense. Yeah, well that's smart because they've preserved a really nice spot.

Yeah. It's like the right size. So you get traffic there but it's I'd stop complaining. It's not shit you know. Come up here.

Yeah. Yeah. This is ridiculous. This place and even now with the quarantine, it's still, you know, on the road like I thought I was supposed to be home. Right. Well, stay safe indoors. It's fucking five o'clock traffic like real traffic.

I was telling you guys actually, I was I was on a I was on a zoom call just on audio on the way up here. And I was passing LAX on four or five and usually it's just dead stop. Right. And finally I was just like, oh man. So I turn the camera on and faced it out. The guys got to see this. I look at this. There's the one, two, five. There's LAX. I'm still moving.

Yeah. It whenever I've done gigs in San Diego and I have like an eight o'clock show, I'll leave here at 11:00 in the morning. I'm like, there's no way. Oh yeah.

I'm not taking any chances. Yeah, it could easily take five hours easily, you know, make it sound like that SNL skit. Californians. Wow.

I don't know that skit, but they do is talk about traffic. Oh, it's fucking ridiculous.

Have you ever thought about living anywhere else?

Um, not really. My wife and I sometimes sort of muse about we'd love to live in New York once all of our kids are out.

But probably for a brief time, you know, it's going to be real weird now. Yeah, apparently is a mass exodus out of there right now.

I was there right before everything turned upside down. Oh, wow. And it was already feeling.

It's shaky, I don't know. We went out, we went out to dinner, we saw our friends band form this little club and there was a sense of unease when you're with a month.

That was in early March. Oh, yeah. So it was just starting to get there or.

No, no, no. It was in February. Sorry. Oh, yeah. But it was like it was just there was something in the air.

We knew something was going to change the body mind caught it there in New York. Yeah. My my two scatter my age and he went through hell. No.

Yeah, it seems like the New York strain, what they got on the East Coast, they were saying, is coming from Europe, it's a stronger strain than the strain that they got here in California. It's coming from China.

Yeah, my my oldest son and I were extremely sick in February, both like as sick as we've ever been. We are convinced that we had gone through it once everything. And so I managed to I managed to get a test.

I had to pay through the nose. Wasn't you know, the tests are not available, but I lucked into one and we both didn't have it.

Interesting. Yeah. We've been testing pretty much everybody. I didn't test you, but we've been testing everybody that comes here. We just have a concierge service comes here, concierge, M.D., L.A. or whatever.

Oh, well, yeah, it's nice. How do I look in luck out. I don't know. I just didn't test. You didn't ask. I fucked up my mistake.

OK, well, I was negative about a month ago. As of a month ago. That's good. As long as we don't make out I think we're OK. OK, cool. I was I've been tested. I got tested last weekend. I took the swab because I flew to Florida for the UFC event, so I had the swab before that. I had the antibody test and then I got it again when I came back all negative.

We did have one fighter test positive, though. He was asymptomatic and is too cornerman. We're asymptomatic, too, which is one of the weirdest things about this.

And he discovered it here. They found out in oh, he's from Florida. But they found out when he arrived that he knew that someone in his family had had it. And so he was cautious and wore gloves and mask and the whole deal and didn't make contact with anybody other than the people that he was with, you know, the entire time. And then they found out before the fight that he was positive. Wow. Yeah.

But all the other fighters, they did 1100 tests and only three people were positive. And they kind of knew that they had a potential for being positive even though they were exhibiting no symptoms. It's just wild right now. It's weird, and we called the event that was what was really wild, calling the event with no audience at all. I saw it.

Strange man. Yeah, just fucking strange.

I'm just like, well, I can tell you, watching it at home with my kids, they had the same excitement level.

Oh, me too. I mean, it was great. The fights were amazing. The judging was fucking terrible. There was some really bad decisions. But the the fights were incredible. Just it was so it was just great just to do something to be.

I was curious about that, though. Do you think the fighters had a different sense of energy or motivation because they didn't have the crowd?

I don't know motivations any different might be a little bit less stressful?

Slightly. Obviously, it's a fucking cage fight. It's going to be stressful, but maybe a little less stressful because you don't get the roar of the crowd. It's not the energy in the place. Maybe you could focus a little bit better, but, you know, there in the UFC, so they're fighting the best fighters in the world. So that's no matter what certain mindset you're getting into your.

Yeah, but it was just interesting because they could clearly hear their corner.

So when the corners were yelling out instruction and when the opposition corner was yelling, all right, yeah, they could hear hear all that and we could hear that too. Like crystal clear, not a sound in the room.

And you could hear the breathing and the impact of the shots way better.

It was a lot. That's a new element. It was a lot different. It's really strange. Yeah. Well, are they going to have skating competitions with no audience as well?

That remains to be seen. I assume that's probably where it's going to go.

I'm not part of the whole Olympic qualifying thing going on, so I don't know what they're going to do or how they're going to continue to qualify people going into next year.

Yeah, we had an event planned that was supposed to happen in June in Salt Lake City, Big Vert skate contest, and it has been pushed to August.

Um, and I don't know if we can do it with an audience or not.

Well, Utah is opening up. I mean, they're doing comedy shows. They're now restaurants are opening up now. They're they're opening up some things so cautiously opening up things.

Yeah, I'm not ultimately, I'm not the one that will decide if it happens or not, but I hope that we can get it done with the necessary guidelines and whatnot, because I do feel like our our type of skating, which is the skating, is sort of a lost art that's not going to be in the Olympics, by the way.

So is this the first year that skating is going to be in the Olympics?

Yeah. Yeah, well, next year, but next year, is it twenty twenty one. Twenty twenty one. Yeah. Interesting.

So skateboarding, the disciplines are street which is sort of the handrails and stairs, ledges and stuff like that you see. And then what they call park and park is sort of a mishmash of pool skating, but also some other skate park elements like banks and and curves and things like that.

So it's more because that type of skating is more accessible, especially internationally then what we call vert skating. But it's kind of to me, it's a disservice to skating because virt skating, like you said, it's the thing you you can understand if you're not a skater. People are flying around, they're doing gymnastics, they're doing somersaults, you know, and that type of stuff.

You see a very muted version of that in park skating.

Hmm. Now, why do Lympics choose those events?

I think that's it, because the accessibility and then I have to I have to respect that. That's just nice. For instance, you know, there is a there's like a strong skate. I mean, there is a skate scene in places like Ethiopia. And Ethiopia has parks.

They don't have vert ramps, obviously.

So I understand on that level you're going to have a much more well-rounded, competitive field.

That's cool that Ethiopia is embraced skateboarding. I want to go see that. Yeah. Videos of you've been there. Yeah. So here it is. Jamie's already got it. The best in the business. Young Jamie, look at this.

Wow. That's fucking cool. Wow. That's not what I picture when I think of Ethiopia. Right. I mean that looks like that could be Atlanta. There could be anywhere. Yeah, absolutely.

Cargo could be. And he said, I mean, that kind of thing is happening all over the world.

There's there's a I don't know if you've heard of Skateistan, but Skateistan is a skat, for lack of a better word, camp facility, an educational facility in Afghanistan, one in Kabul.

And they teach girls.

They teach girls, they give them educations and they they learn how to skate.

Well, in fact, there was a documentary on them that won an Academy Award at the last Oscars.

Really? Yeah. Do you got anything on that? That was. That was my. For what's called learning to skate, that's Skateistan, it's called learning to skate in a war zone if you're a girl. That's the name of the documentary.

That's got to be very dangerous for them, though, right? Because the fundamentalists don't want them doing well.

So that's the thing, is that the way they see it, the culture sees skateboards as a toy, not a sport, and allows girls to do it.

Oh, wow, so they don't they don't see it as this coed sport at all, and so it's really interesting that the ratio of boys to girls are equal skating in Afghanistan.

And same goes for they have another program in Cambodia and they have one in South Africa. I've been to all of them are not a couple.

But look at the picture that is so wild. The mountains of Afghanistan, the background.

Oh, yeah. Girls catching their programs and saying they're they're one of the best. Wow.

That's wild, that's crazy. Skating is that's crazy that during your lifetime, skating has just blossomed and gone from this sort of misfit thing to something that's in the Olympics and in Ethiopia, Afghanistan, all over the world. That's why it is wild.

Yeah, it's really every day is like a new surprise now when they do it in the Olympics. What is the scoring criteria like? How do they how do they judge?

Well, I don't think they're going to reinvent the wheel in terms of how they judge.

I think that they have to be very concise with their criteria now in terms of writing it down, because before it was sort of loosened back, you know, that skater tripped and went higher and looked cooler and we gave them first.

And now it's got to be much more fun. But it's more it's more about the technical aspects, like how the difficulty factor how you flow, like how you linked tricks together, how much speed you have, how high you go. I mean, all those factors.

But at the end of the day, when you go to escape contests, you can tell the top skaters it's just obvious that they they were ripping. They use the course better. You know, they went higher, they spun more.

They flip the board hard in more difficult ways. And they were the winners.

And now do you have former pros or current pros, the judges like I'm not really sure who how they're picking judges.

I'm not like, yeah, for a standard competition, how a lot of them are pros.

Yeah. And so there's pretty universal acceptance of like what what's good and what's bad. Yeah. I mean cause it's always up for debate.

Yeah. Who should have won that event or this or how to get there at the level that these guys are out.

It's probably quite a few guys that are comparable. Right. Sure, yeah.

So it's basically how good your run was, how good your run was.

Yeah. And who had a better day similar to surfing in that regard.

Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. So that's what's interesting for someone like me watching, like I'm not exactly sure what I'm seeing. I know what looks cool but I don't know what, what, what one you know.

Sure. Yeah.

And I think that well I'm hoping that that will be my job to explain to the audience why they I was supposed to be there in Tokyo doing some commentary, not not the play by play, but more sort of, you know, coming in and out of there and doing whatever shows they need me to do.

But so I would like to own the Olympics for a year every year. Yeah. Mm hmm.

So you would like to I would like to to be there to try to to try to bridge that gap right out of the the non skating viewer who is interested and explain to them why, you know, why this this nuance is going to score way higher than this other, even though they look the same to you.

Yeah, and I've done it.

I've done it like they had the Vans Park series all last year where we went to all over the world and went to China, Brazil, Canada, France, and they built these parks that they left there.

But I was doing all the the commentary for the events. And that was kind of where that's where my strengths are, is being able to explain those things to non skaters.

Well, that's going to be fun for you, too, because it's an opportunity to sort of, you know, proselytize, let everybody know like like show them how cool this is.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Words to your passion, this thing. And I mean, that's got to really spark up the interests of new skaters.

I think that's the silver lining with the Olympics. I mean, there is a lot of controversy in the Hakura skate scene where it's just like we're not we don't belong in. We've always done this to be anti that type of thing anyway. Yeah. And then it's like, well, you guys, all those things you love, ice skating will still exist, right? You can still go hop fences and skate like that's not taken away from you. If anything, it's going to bring it to a bigger audience that is going to be interested.

Yeah. And I believe a more international audience. I think that's the really cool part about it.

That's the thing, though, man. When people when things start going mainstream, people always panic.

Right. But that's the other thing is this like if you think that the competition element is what is somehow sanitising skating, we I grew up skating competitions. I literally entered my first contest at age 10. That is the only way you got recognized when I was a kid. Like this is not something new to skateboarding. It's just that now there are different opportunities in skating and there is a way to make a living even if you don't compete. And so because that exists, people are just like Olympics are, you know, that's a sport competition like.

Yeah, but. We already have street league, we already have the dew tour, we already have X Games, those things all exist. So we're going to have this other big event once every four years.

People always want to shit on something that's different than what they're doing now. Oh, sure. It seems like I mean, hey, I've lived with so much ridicule my whole life that I just like. Yeah, sure. Whatever you say.

Well, for you, I mean, you've crossed over to the other side. That's what's interesting. I mean, you don't even need a thick skin anymore.

Yeah. I mean, there's obviously still haters, like you're a sellout and whatnot, but it's like, do you read those comments?

I just don't Twitter or anything. Do I feel like if someone's making enough noise, I'll see it. And, you know, every once in a while I like to see what the what the general vibe is on something.

But when I grew up, like, I think my journey allowed me to really be prepared for that, because when I was a kid, I was doing this outcaste activity. Right. So I was already not cool in school. And then I started skating and I was like a scrawny little kid with a really sort of what they call robotic style, because I was focusing on tricks.

So I was getting made fun of in the skate world. So I was like an outcast in this outcast activity and it was really isolating. And at some point I was like, I love this too much to listen to these people, not do it.

Like, explain to me what you were getting shit on for. Like you had a robotic style.

So basically, when I first started getting into skating, especially pool skating, to be a skater, you had to be super cool, look like you're surfing.

It was all about your style. Right. And it was all about like how you flow. And if you're doing aerials, it's got to look cool.

And and I was super scrawny, super short kid. And so all I really knew how to do was to maneuver my board. And so I was doing these tricks, ride like, spin my board under my feet and do these weird sort of hand plants and aerial tricks and things where it just wasn't that wasn't the normal and it wasn't really considered the cool way to skate.

And so they just they were like, there's they call me circus circus skater like others, Tony, with the circus tricks, I. Wow.

And then at some point I just like I loved what I was doing and I didn't really listen. And then I got I got more confident and I got stronger. And then I started doing this stuff like way up high in the air. And then it was sort of undeniable that I was like, oh, well, that is something.

So was there pressure for you to change your style and sort of blend in?

I just didn't have I didn't have the bulk to be able to do it anyway, so, yeah, like I just didn't have that weight behind me.

And so what I did was when back then, in order to do aerials out of pools, you had to, like, reach down, grab your board and sort of muscle it into the air and above the coping.

And I learned how to launch into the air without grabbing my board and then grabbing it at the peak.

And that allowed me to get the height when I was still really scrawny and weak. And they said that technique was cheating. Like they literally wrote that in Thrasher magazine. It's just like, well, Tony Hawk cheats because he always into his ears.

And that way he can just grab it wherever.

And I was just like, yes, that's exactly it.

That's what I'm trying to do here. And that's so. So they would judge you on. That's so crazy. Here's this invented thing, right? This art form. And then you're doing it your way and they're saying you're cheating. Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't it just it was just like this old guard in skating and they just didn't like to see anything new or sort of fringe.

And then I started doing that. And then and then a lot of my peers who were my age, they all figured that same technique out.

And then we just kind of took over, you know, that became the way to skate. And but but then through the years, like in those days, you know, skating was still very much a novelty.

And then in the 90s, like X Games came into play. And then all of a sudden my name was was being well was well known, not mainstream, but but getting there. And then our video game came out and then it was just like, oh, you're just a sellout.

And it was like because of the video game, because the video game, the endorsements that followed from that, I was doing stuff for Jeep, for McDonalds, for Doritos. And they were just like, oh, you just so it was like when I turned pro at age 14, if McDonald's had asked me to be a commercial, I would have jumped on it. Are you kidding me? Like I was eating McDonald's my whole life.

I still do.

So it was more like they thought somebody change my values and was just like I haven't changed my value system. It's just that I'm getting these opportunities. Finally, what I've been doing this for most of my life, for the most part, it's you're getting opportunities that they're not.

So the best way to dismiss that or diminish it is to say that you're a sellout because you're on a video game that's so short sighted.

Sure. But but you know, but so what I'm saying is that just sort of. That sort of steeled my resolve where so once social media came into play and people are talking shit online, I was like, you're not getting to me to this, you know, through this media.

Right. People used to say this to my face, used to read about this. Right. About me in magazines like You're Hiding Behind your Twitter username.

I don't care what you first saw someone say that you were cheating by using that technique. How about that? Must have sucked.

Yeah. And it was from a it was from a skater that I really respected to like he was quoted in the magazine and that was it was crushing. Wow.

That's such a bitch ass approach, you know, cheating. That's so weird to me because I never would have. I guess it makes sense because there's always factions in any discipline or any art form or anything or some people respect some things and other people shit on it.

And but the idea that you doing it your way would somehow or another be cheating. To me, it seems so strange. That doesn't make any sense.

Like I said, it was it was just weird because skating was a small community at the time and it was like, why are you like, why are we fighting in our little tiny world?

It's always going to be that way. Yeah, that's just humans. Yeah. Especially when you're doing something different, especially if you're getting attention, doing something different. They're going to find some way to diminish you.

Yeah, it was just it was it was harder for me because all I wanted to be was accepted as a skater. Mm hmm. You know, I kind of given up on my peers, my schoolmates. I knew it wasn't going to fit in there. And so I was like, I found this thing.

And then just like, you guys don't like me, do it rough.

But look, you hung in there and came out on the other end. Yeah. And I don't I don't harbor any ill will. You know, me, a lot of people are like, oh, you should go back to school, like go to your reunion.

And I was like, I don't it's not some revenge for me.

I loved. I'm just so thankful that I still get to do this for a living like this is seriously living the dream. Like I get to do this for a living. I get to come on your show because I'm a skateboarder. Like, the stuff that I've gotten to do over my life is beyond any dream I could have ever written or imagined.

And it's all because I just kept skating.

That is the American dream to me. World wide dream. The human dream. Absolutely.

To be able to do what you want for a living and to continue doing it. Yeah. And support your family and to you know, it's crazy, that kind of stuff that.

Yeah. That we've gotten to do, especially as a family like kind of troops. We've taken the people we met for skating.

Yeah. For skating. That's crazy. That's amazing. Do you still talk to that guy.

Oh shit. On you back then. Do you know who that guy is.

I mean, do I think he fell on some hard times then. Oh yeah. Yeah. That's how it usually goes with haters, you know.

Sorry. But it's interesting, though, that there's been these waves of change inside of it during your lifetime.

You know, that it's such an evolving, sort of growing thing that from the time you were a kid to now it's almost just a totally different thing.

But yet still skating still.

Yeah. I mean, at its core, the feeling I get when I'm on a skateboard, same. Like, when I just go out just practicing on my ramp or in our backyard or whatever, I can just feel that that happiness, the sort of peace and like it's the one thing in my life that I'm fully in control of. And I just like that's my escape, that's so cool that you still enjoy it like that, that I never imagined, that I never imagined skating into my 30s.

Do you have friends that are your age that also. Yes.

They'll skate a couple of friends that are couple of years older than me, and they're sort of my you know, they're my age.

So do you have a crazy set up in your backyard?

I have a small concrete set up. That's not huge. But but, you know, it's fun. And then I have a proper size Big Vert ramp at my office. And I mean, in the last two months, those in my place, I'm out.

Is it an indoor thing? The ramp to Nooria, how high is it? It is for 13 and a half. 14 feet.

Wow. So you just go there and fuck around and have fun and, yeah, just yeah, we've done a couple of live streams from there just to provide entertainment for people. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. And we did one with Jay Z trip. He was doing like mixing up on the deck and we were doing tricks up on his opponent's table.

That was pretty cool. And then we are working on this best trick NBD thing, actually got some some money from a sponsor. So, you know, just trying to make content, make entertainment as best we can.

What are the content do you make online? Do you do a podcast or anything or video? I used to I used to be on Sirius XM, actually. That was the first time I reached out to you because I had a Sirius XM show for ten years and I stopped doing it just because it was I kind of went as far as I could with getting guests and I just wasn't really moving up the ladder.

And it was really hard to maintain that schedule.

You know, it was only once a week, but for me, it was like I got a book studio time in L.A., drive up here big.

So I didn't have like I didn't have anyone running the show.

So it was just more like, hey, does anyone know Seth Rogen?

But I had a good run. I mean, I definitely like my last two guests were Ferrell and Seth Rogen. Oh. So I felt like.

All right, that's all the sports guy. No. Farell Oh, the music. Williams Yeah.

Oh wow. Yeah. Oh wow. That's, that's a big get was.

Yeah. So I felt like if, if I'm not I can't really go further with this idea and let's just end it here. So it was fun though.

Do you do anything with it now. Do you do anything like that now. Um no, not really. I mean I, I'm happy to but I just so easy to do some sort of a podcast now. It is. Yeah.

I just don't I guess I just don't want to be that guy that's like hey man do you my podcast.

Yeah. Because that's how I felt. When I sent you the first message on Twitter, I was like, hey, you want to go on Sirius XM show? And that was right when your show started blowing up and I saw you, I was like, oh, he doesn't time for my show.

But I did. I mean, I'm look, I'm happy you came to do this. I think what you've done in your life is it's like a great roadmap for young kids that are sitting out there trying to figure out if they can make a living doing something they love.

You know, that's that's the roadmap.

Oh, for sure. I try to tell people to. You don't have to you don't have to be the best in your field to to enjoy it and make a living at it.

Like you can maybe find some angle on it that maybe isn't even the thing, but you get it gets you in the door and you get to be part of the community or the industry.

And you can live like that, whether it's doing video or art or, you know, behind the scenes, you're still part of that scene and it's still super cool. And I feel like that's what's lost on kids. They just want to be the best. They want all the stardom.

And it's just like now think of something that is that you would enjoy and make that your job, because that's for me, that's what successes that's such an American mindset, the mindset of I need to be the best.

I need to be number one. Right. You know. Yeah.

And that that's just the thing that sucks about that mindset is that if you do reach any sense of that, a lot of times that's when it all falls apart.

How so?

I feel like a lot of people get a taste of it and they're no longer motivated. Do you know what? OK. I think in a lot of cases I've seen in skateboarding, especially where they just want to be, they want to get in the magazine and they want to be or win the contest and then they finally do and they're not motivated to keep it going.

That's interesting. Or two, to progress their own skating.

So instead of just enjoying it, they they in their end, the competition is the end. Meet the end goal and then once they hit the competition.

I was just a means to an end. And then and then there's no more inspiration.

That's a fun thing. That's a funny thing, rather, for a lot of people in any art form or any sport. They you know, once they reach a pinnacle, it's very difficult to keep momentum up. That's what happens with a lot of fighters.

Oh, yeah, they reach the top and then they they don't have the same enthusiasm they had when they were younger. And then, of course, the trappings of fame.

And that's another distraction. Another, you know, and some people, that's what they revel in. Yeah.

And you can lose sight of I mean, I think that's what I was lucky that I was young enough and had success. And I saw some of my peers kind of fall into that. And I saw how it affected their skating.

And that was my signal was like, if you follow that road, your car is going to suffer. And my focus was always getting better at skating.

That's interesting. That happens with comedy. A lot of times guys get really famous and then their specials, they start to fall.

Right. They like when they're on the come up, their specials are edgy and they're really into it. They're poor, they're they're all into it.

And then they become famous. And like that was the thing with Kinnison. Like he's partying with rock stars. Yeah.

Hanging out some during those days. Did you really. Yeah. In San Diego. Oh wow. Yeah, it was awesome. Yeah.

I mean to him a couple of times but you could tell that he could just come out and scream and I was like yeah.

Also this must have been like eighty six. Eighty seven.

Yeah. He, he did a thing where he called people from the audience to come up and then call their ex-girlfriend, their ex-girlfriend.

Yeah I saw that. That's that. Yeah. Now that was the thing he was doing. Yeah. I saw him do that in Mansfield, Massachusetts. Yeah.

But, but in his day man he was a genius.

Oh he was the best for a couple of years is probably the best ever. But then the trappings of fame. Yeah. Just got to stop. Right. His brother wrote about it is there's a book called Brother Sam, his brother Bill wrote this whole book about this sort of meteoric rise. And one of the things that he said was that, you know, once he became famous, he was like just doing coke and partying all night. And he really wasn't writing anymore, wasn't out there trying to put down the sets.

And he definitely wasn't keeping a secret that he was doing it. No, no. He was partying. Well, listen, man, I appreciate you coming in here. It was really cool to meet you.

Oh, it was. It was my pleasure. Thank you. It's an honor to be here. I think your story is fucking amazing. It's really cool. I love hearing stories like that where someone finds something they love and they just just follow their dream and they become famous and successful at it.

It's just it's so cool. Yeah. I'm still still chasing that carrot. Chase that carrot, baby. Thank you. Thanks, brother. Appreciate you, man. Tony Hawk, ladies and gentlemen, goodbye. Thank you. Thank you friends for tuning in to the show. And thank you to Casper. Fantastic mattresses at not so outrageous prices from award winning mattresses to pillow sheets and duvets. Casper is transforming the way we sleep one snooze at a time, head on over to Casper Dotcom and save 10 percent on almost everything through June 1st.

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