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Today, this might be the longest podcast of twenty twenty for me. I think it is right Jamie. I think it's the longest. Tom Green and I, we're not. We started off sober and then it ended drunk.


It was a long and fun conversation with a man who Tom Green is one of the main influences for me in starting a podcast.


When I went over to his place, we talked about this ad nauseum on the show itself, because I always say he's the reason why I thought about doing it like I could.


He was one of the very first influences where I saw his house that he had set up like a television studio. And I was like, holy shit, look what Tom Green is doing.


And it planted the seeds for me to decide to eventually start doing my own podcast. He's always been cool as fuck. He's a really good guys, funny as hell, and he's just fun to be around. I love him to death.


Please welcome Tom Green government podcast, The Joe Rogan Experience Train by Good Podcast. My Night All Day. A central character known as Tom Green, Joe, how are you? You're the wild man living in a van now. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. You you are that eccentric character.


You go from being a television and movie star to being a wild man traveling the land with your vagabond dog that you got from another country. Yeah, she's a rescue from the Bahamas. Yeah. Charlie, she's rescued from the Bahamas.


God damn adorable, by the way. I love her. She's beautiful. You are this eccentric character. Now look at you.


I guess so. I feel like maybe I feel like in some ways what I'm doing right now is the most normal thing I've done in my life. But it is actually kind of crazy, too.


It's it's crazy compared to people. But I think it fits you like a glove. I really do.


Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, I like going out into the wilderness. I always have. Yeah. And I've been out in this van that I just got, which is amazing. And I'm going pretty hard with it.


Is this the first time you've been tested since you got tested? The last time on my show I got tested one time between.


But that's another interesting story. But let's hear it. Oh well, my ex-wife asked me to come on our talk show and I hadn't talked to her in fifteen years.


Oh, Drew. Drew, yeah. So and so.


I thought. Was that a trap? It was nice. It was nice. Nervous.


It was nice. It was nice. We had a good time. That's cool. And but I get tested to do the show and but it was interesting because, you know, I mean, it was very sort of interesting thing because, you know, we hadn't talked in fifteen years at all. At all. And and then, you know, all of a sudden, you know, got a call from our saying, well, coming to the new show and her shows are new shows, really pretty wacky.


You know, like she's getting really kind of lucky. You put your hands up for wacky. Oh, yeah.


Like, she is definitely pushing it in a very sort of I mean, I enjoying the show.


It's very funny what she is doing very, very, very over the top.


Some of the things she goes on there that's representative of her is of her as well. It reminds me a lot of of of her. I mean, it is her. Yeah. For sure. What she really is like. Who she really is. I think so. Yeah.


Well, as you get older you tend to be able to figure out who you really are better like like with you like doing this van thing.


Now I'm the guy living down by the river in the van.


It makes sense to me when you told me you were going to do that. I'm going to travel across the country and just drive around the van with my dog. I was like that. I could see you enjoying that.


Mm. Yeah. You know, it's it's it's a whole world man. It's a whole world that you that I didn't even know about. Like I didn't know. In Canada it's called Crown Land. Here it's called BLM Land Bureau of Land Management. I'm sure you know all about that from hunting and going out into the wilderness. I didn't really know about Bureau of Land Management land.


And there's certain apps that will show you all the fire roads, all the remote places that you can go and do dispersed camping, go boondoggling.


They're called the Shivan have off road capabilities. Can you drive on rugged trails?


Yeah, pretty good. I got like, it's not it's not an off road vehicle. It's it's a it's a ram pro master 10500. It's, you know, a delivery truck that they convert into.


A lot of people are doing that these days. My friend Tim Poole did that. He got I believe he got a ram as well. This was a ram, wasn't a Jamy. I think it's around as well, and he did the same thing and turned it into a bugout van, so the ramp is wider than than the Mercedes or van, which you see a lot of it's wider. So I can actually sleep full with wires. The beds would with with was on the back.


But but, you know, it was just kind of happened pretty randomly. I saw this clip online of these guys in Arizona who convert the vans. I called them up. They they were on Shark Tank. They're these guys, they're called Bojo. This one's called Baho. They're really cool dudes. Baho Yeah.


Bobino Oh yeah.


And by the way, they are like they love that I'm here right now.


They're your biggest fan. They literally watch every episode of your show and so they're going to take a shit right now. They probably really happy that I'm mentioning them on the show, but they they were on Shark Tank.


They just these two young guys, they started this company where they bought Rampal Masters, totally independent thing. And they do this great carpentry like they build build out the inside.


It's all cedar that you have images of your your van online. Yeah. That's the inside of them there and see it. That's nice. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.


And see like I got my speakers set up and the thing that's, that's kinda like clicking about this in the Mojave Desert.


There's Charlie Chaplin like in there. Yeah. Yeah.


So when you say you have your studio so you're doing your podcast from the road. Yeah exactly. And how are you doing it.


Like whenever you feel like it you just fire up the podcast when you've got something to say and yeah.


That thing looks killer in there. Yeah.


I see how you got a little kitchenette set up and how you cooking as there's a vent.


Oh you got an awning and I'm shooting these drone shots two which are pretty fun.


Your rolling drones. Look at this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the Mojave. Check out all those Joshua trees burned.


Those are burned. Joshua trees. Oh wow.


But so, you know, it's kind of like, you know, I've always been into the techie kind of building out studio stuff. Right. So that's sure.


When I found out about these vans, the thing that really kind of piqued my interest is the the battery and solar technology that exists now. So there's two solar panels on the roof. And in the back, I've got these batteries. They're really called Battleborn batteries. They're like really solid, like they use them in sailboat's to go around the world, basically. And there's four of them and the solar panels are charging them constantly. So I've built I've got my computers, I've got my cameras, I've got my drone.


I'm charging batteries all the time. I've got a refrigerator in there. So I have, you know, cold beer. Right. And and it's sweet. So I can go out into the middle of nowhere and have virtually unlimited electronic capability and to stay there as long as I want until I run out of food. Wow.


And so those solar panels, how efficient are they? Like, well, they're they power your studio and all that stuff where you don't have to use your your engine. You don't have to start up and use gas. Exactly. You run a diesel in your van.


No, but that just that just happened to be the way it went because that van was available and I've got that one.


But how is the gas mileage. It's pretty good.


I'll tell you one thing though. I am always filling up like I never let it go below three quarters of a tank because just in case it gets I never know where I'm going every day.


That's like I got weird stories over the last six weeks where I've just been like, not sure where I'm going to sleep. And it's the sun's going down. And then I end up going down a crazy road. And then the first night I got stuck in the Mojave Desert because I looked up on this app, Dispersed Fire Road, I'm thinking, oh, that's pretty cool. You know, I get there.


There's a sign that says tortoises crossing careful driving under the desert.


I'm 200 yards and I get stuck because it's the soft sand gets stuck in the soft sand. So I've been a little more careful.


But but get out and you get stuck in the soft sand. Cultural. Oh, come closer.


I was I was 100 yards from the from the from the freeway. It was like I had gotten into it yet I was it was so pathetic. It was hilarious because I've been planning for months, you know, and then all of a sudden I'm like, I'm seeing the, you know, so fast cars.


Can I get before we get into your adventure, I want to I want to get more into this van. Bill. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you started it out with just buying this van.


Is it a new van or did you buy it brand new? So you bought a brand new van and then you bring these boho guys. Yeah. And these guys, what do they do? They ask you what do you plan on doing it? You plan on using this as a studio. Like your idea from the jump was to do your podcast on the road with no no plans other than your own whims. Right. So when when you do something like that, how do you know what you're going to need?


You didn't really have any experience in, like off roading or that kind of not living out of a van. Yeah. How did you know what you're going to need?


Like, how did you research it. Yeah. So.


Well, there's, there's. Couple of categories of research. One was just building the studio itself, so I built the studio at home first. That was just the, you know, nitty gritty technical stuff, you know, and what kind of microphones, what kind of amps and preamps I'm going to use. And I have some apps that use tubes. I got rid of those because I figured the tubes would rattle out in the dirt road.


So boring techie stuff. But but as far as the survival and the food and the and all of that and the van, they've been a real great like I built my studio equipment into a real case.


And I know I knew that. I thought, well, that could fit under the bed and then weeks or planned it out where there's a little door that opens and you can access it under the bed. And we've wired all the cables through the walls and it's pretty efficient.


So you get everything you need to do a podcast down into one box.


Yeah, just pull that box out and then you ready it or it's actually it's actually permanently housed under the bed. So I just I have a table that pulls out that table. I was sitting out there and just under their little door opens, microphones plugged in and the way you go.


But the other side of it is like a lot of the video stuff, too, like the the drone, the cameras. Like I've got some new cameras that I'm kind of messing with that are exciting to me. And so so I'm kind of out there. The thing that I was thinking, I was thinking and I did get bored out here. Yeah.


That's what I was going to ask. And all alone with or lonely. I'm going to get bored or lonely. Yeah.


And I haven't because I've populated the van with stuff to do so and I get bored of the drone. Then I'm making music too.


So I've made a it's a recording music studio too. What kind of music. Well I'm doing some sort of different stuff. I've got my acoustic guitar so I'm going to start doing some. Some.


Country rap type of you're going to go on a tour country rap, I call it crap Joe, it's going to go on tour maybe.


Maybe as a singer. Yeah, I could see that.


No, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I probably maybe incorporate it into my standup or something like that. You know, I you know, I was a rapper when I was a teenager, so. Yeah, I remember back in. Yeah.


So. So to get back to this build out so you get it where you're you're ready. You still have your house in L.A.. Right.


And then you decide, all right, let's do it. You start the car up and you go, where did you go.


I drove out, drove out into the Mojave Desert. And that's the first place with the destination was Utah. And so I started by going out to the Mojave Desert. And what type of what time of the year was this?


This was like a six or seven weeks ago. I guess I've been on the road ever since. Wow. Haven't it was great just eating out of your van.




So that was part of planning like the food. So I've got these. Big Rubbermaid containers and the trunk, four of them. Do you have a refrigerator? I have a refrigerator, yeah. That's is that solar powered as well.


It's runs off the electric system. So the solar is charging the batteries in the batteries run electric for the whole van. All the lights are led.


So it's very effective, efficient and the fridge is also high efficiency cooler essentially.


So so is it like one of those roll out coolers that people have under one of the seats?


It's called the domestic cooler because there's a lot of guys who do not let them call it off roading. What do they call it when they go out into the boondocks boondock? And I don't think they call it that either.


That's that's the van life term for for what people are doing with these vans now.


But where they go off grid and I think it's a Filipino word from the U.S. military brought that there's a lot of people that plan.


They they get a kick out of meticulously planning like a 500 mile venture through the off road, through the wilderness with these, like, off route.


I forget why they call it trekking, goddammit.


Oh, yeah. Yeah. But it's there's I got into it for a while. I went down a rabbit hole. There's tons of videos on YouTube of these guys overlending. Sorry. That's what I call overlending.


So I'm not going you know, I don't have extra fuel so I've got my tank of fuel. So I usually when I get off the main highway, I make sure I've got full tank. And I've never I've gotten close to running out of fuel.


Have you thought now that you've had this thing for six weeks and we don't have six weeks to make revisions like like maybe have some exterior fuel canisters, maybe put an extended range gas tank?


And I'm thinking about all this. Yes. Yeah, I love these questions. Yeah. Overlanders do all that stuff.


So there's like. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. You know, the thing is, is this van is is. Yeah, I could I mean, look, I'm amazed how remote you can go just and this is what I kind of talk about on my social media and some of the videos I'm making YouTube sometimes sort of telling people like. Hey, you know, if you're like sitting around at home right now and you're bored and you're angry about shit, you want to you can just get in your car and drive out to these beautiful places.


You know, the last week I was on the top of a mountain in the Lincoln National Forest, right on the border of New Mexico and Texas. And I mean, there's drone shots where it's just nobody seems like a hundred miles.


Like I drove for an hour up this two lane paved highway and didn't see a car the entire time driving there. And then you get up there and you find. A place to camp and there's deer hunters are up there, so there's lots of dispersed spots with fire pits and you're up there all by yourself and you get up in the morning and I make coffee with this gas powered kettle. So I'm not eating my battery. And, you know, I got all these propane tanks.


I got a Coleman stove. I'm cooking with my Coleman stove. I got lots of cans of beans. I mean, a lot of spam and ragu. I remember you gave me some shit about the Ragu last time. It's pretty good.


The regular. I don't think it gave me shit. It was kind of joking around with you, but. Yeah, but like, you know, I mean, a lot of canned food because part of the part of what happened was this started from the whole quarantining. Right. I got all this canned food for the house and I was just cooking for myself. And then I thought, you know, I could just take this out, take this on the road.


You're spending a lot of time with no people. Like, did it feel weird coming here? These all the people, security people here and Jamie and Jeff and me feel weird like all these people was a village. You know, it's interesting because. You start to feel a little bit, and I think this is probably something that maybe is affecting everybody with the the the the the quarantining and the pandemic and all that stuff. Maybe not maybe, maybe certainly not everyone's in their van.


But you start to get to the point where you think. Maybe I didn't get social anxiety coming here because, like. I know you guys are getting tested and all that stuff, but I have a little bit, you know, I have a little bit more paranoia about getting this virus than the average person's of cancer because of cancer.


I think so. Yeah. Thanks. And so, you know, because I just don't it's not even that I feel like I'm more susceptible to it. It's just I really hate being sick when I have cancer.


I was in the hospital for six weeks.


It was like painful. It's I just hate it. I hate that loss of control, you know. So so but no, I mean, are you taking care of yourself, like vitamin wise you take in like I supplements.


I think I'm eating pretty healthy. I don't think Pam and Ragu, but I mean, like, there's a lot of vitamins slow down. There's a lot of vitamins and that stuff. No, look, I'm I'm I'm getting I'm exercising, doing a lot of what I'm doing a lot of walks.


That's cool going. That's good. Into these woods. Are you getting any fresh vegetables at all?


I have canned corn. I have I have a large quantity of Cancún is barely a vegetable.


I was told I was told corn, rice and beans is enough for some students.


You could stay alive. That's what I'm trying to say. No, I want you to take care of yourself like vitamins and nutrients and like corn is very little.


I have onions. That's not going to last a long time.


And potatoes. Yeah, well, there's a little bit in potatoes and potatoes kind of live off. They last a long time.


I have. I mean, full disclosure, just to be clear, I have done a few curbside pickup at Walmart and I've got oranges, so I've got oranges. Oh. So you won't go inside.


Yeah, not not really trying to not to go inside. I have I have gone inside a couple of times.


Admittedly you're nervous about going inside of Wal-Mart. I did, I did do it once. Yeah. Because it was late and I was quite hungry.


But you're hardcore with this fear of the virus.


I'm not sure how. Yes I am. Yes I am. I am sure that I am. But I also am enjoying, not enjoying. That's the wrong word. I am. I'm just trying to see if I can do it to try to see if I can do it. Is it possible to go remote off the grid and just sort of be disconnected from the, the, the luxuries that we're used to having in life, of being able to go to a Walmart, grab any food you want?


You know, I'll have some sushi, you know?


OK, I think I'll grab a plate of fresh cut steak. I mean, it's kind of interesting to kind of go out into these places that are incredibly remote and beautiful and to cook on an open flame. And I brought a fishing rod. Haven't caught anything yet. Have you done any fishing? I did a little bit, but I honestly haven't had a lot of.


How are you getting your licenses? Online. Online. Online? Yeah.


Yeah, I also I did bring a shotgun as well. Oh Jesus. For protection or for birds. Well I have, I've been hunting but I have not actually seen an animal yet.


No animals at all. No. You bring in your dog. I might be a part of the problem.


No I don't bring the dog. Actually I don't.


So when you say you go hunting, what do you hunting for?


Well, in my mind, it would be it would be for birds. No gun. So but cage. It's a 12 gauge. That's an alley gun birds is it. Yeah.


Well I guess I got yeah I guess so. It's a binelli for ducks I guess.


Maybe I don't even know what I'm doing Joe. I don't know.


But but but birds you targeting. Well I'm not really honestly, I honestly have it just because I feel like when I'm going in bear country and when I go walking deep into the woods, I kind of feel a little nervous. So I've got my bear spray.


I've got my, you know, hunting knife, I've got my hands ready rock. I'm ready to rock.


But I honestly, I just like to walk in the woods and I like to go deep out into the woods and I bring a compass with me and a way out not I have the system to not get lost. OK, I know it sounds I have a system. What's the system.


Well, basically.


So like last last last week I was up on this mountaintop in the Lincoln National Forest and so.


There was a sort of a long straight, I'd call it like a ravine or something, so I just walked straight along that ravine. I knew that would lead back to the van.


And I followed that until like probably a mile or so until I hit a landmark that went that way. It was a sort of a limestone ledge that went straight.


So I don't go so far that I'm going in circles.


Right. But I'm always keeping very good track on those landmarks. And I just know that, OK, I walked walked a mile down to this ravine and this ravine to this to this limestone ledge, and I'll walk a mile that way.


Do you find yourself way more aware of where you are? Because you have to be responsible for yourself and because you are alone off grid different than you would be that if you were with a bunch of friends wandering around, you probably wouldn't be paying that much attention.


I love it. It's my favorite thing. You know, I really do love it. You know, we talk about it before. You know how I used to go out and canoe trips in Canada when I was a kid and just, you know, this is the first time I've ever done it alone.


Alone. I've never done camping alone before.


Who goes camping alone? But, you know, I there's something even really extra special about it.


And so I have a lot of friends who really enjoy it.


And to clarify, like I do, bring the dog with me on a lot of these walks and when I have the shotgun, but I have no intention of firing the gun because I don't hurt her ears.


Right. Yeah, but but but if I ever went with the intention of possibly firing the gun, then then I leave her in the van.


You have to worry about coyotes with her. Oh, yeah. And she she this was this happened a couple of nights ago. It was really kind of interesting. Dogs are so smart.


We should let her know she's a she's a little doggie, but she's adorable.


Let's just let it go. Say hi to her. So the other night. Say hi, chopper. Hi, sweetie.


She was sleeping, you could tell she's like, Dad, you just leave the other doing the other night.


We were surrounded by them multiple times, we've been surrounded by them in the van at night, so it was sort of late at night and had a campfire going.


And we just heard, like, you know, I don't know more than I've ever heard. Actually, it must have been like 30 or something out there.


And they were howling. And and for the moment, she barked. And then I said, why it?


And then she sort of realized I could see her realize she barks at everything.


There's a video I've put up on my YouTube, which is pretty funny because, you know, we saw some we saw javelina, you know, wild boar.


Don't kill your dog. Yeah, yeah. We were in the van, so we were driving down this road and this was in New Mexico. And I'm getting my camera to get the shot of this, you know, wild boar.


And she's not really a Havoline. It's not really a pig. It looks like a pig, but it's not a peccary. It's a different kind of animal. Yeah. Yeah, it's I think it was wasn't a wild boar. It was a harlina. Yeah, I think it was. Yeah. I've never seen one before.


Where was this. A New Mexico. Yeah. That in in the Gila National Forest. Hilar. Yeah.


Yeah, yeah. So she's so cute. So she starts barking at it like this.


Yeah. There it is. You have video footage. Oh yeah. That's how you'll see it. And she starts barking and then it runs out of vicious little fuckers.


They killed Stanhope's neighbor's dog. Oh really. And they said it's interesting that it's by itself.


Yeah it's well actually later we just up the road, we drove by a river, get her.


She barks and then she yawns. She's so well taken care of. She's not worried. Good job pulling that video. That's pretty impressive, you guys. Wow. Look how beautiful that is. So that next shot there. So this is a deer. She scares the deer away here. And this is that is just outside of Las Cruces, New Mexico.


You've got a few deer out there. OK, we'll do a lot out there. Yeah.


Yeah. And I've got that's not actually my that's a New Mexico.


New Mexico. And she's barking the deer. Yeah. Yeah. What time when what was this.


This was know a week ago. They might be in season son. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.


There's when I'm in, when I'm up for my walk I've got my, my orange hunter orange on.


And do you have a license to shoot. Deer would tag. I don't know. No I just have a small game license. Just uh New Mexico.


If you got a deer do you know what to do with it. Well, I'm not your type intention of shooting here because I'm by myself, I mean, what am I going to do with it? You know? Well, you don't have enough.


But I do have Steve Rinella Renaldo's book on small game preparation. Oh, really? Oh, that's why I loved your your episode of that, by the way.


I just did one with him a couple of days ago. A new one. Yeah. Oh nice. Yeah. How long was it. Five days ago. Five days ago week. Yeah. He's awesome.


I particularly like the little face. Look at that little face I particular. She's so cute.


First thing she did to me is bite me. She can run it out to be like a little bit my fingers like she just wants to play.


He's still teething. Look.


How old is she. She's but six and a half months. Yeah. She's so cute. She's so playful too.


Yeah. Um but yeah. Yeah. So like full disclosure though, like I've never really hunted before.


I don't, I'm not a hunter I've never had before a lot of fishing, grew up fishing, did a ton of that.


But I just, I do like, I just, I just there's something about being all alone.


In the middle of nowhere, yeah, at night, surrounded by coyotes, that I'd be lying if I say it wasn't a little bit scary, like, oh yeah, it's a little bit scary.


There's something about those low alone trips that people say you you do sort of an inventory of your life and start assessing your your behavior and who you are and you're alone for so long that you're forced to sort of think about what you've done. And are you happy with your choices in life or are you happy with your job? Are you happy with your relationships? Yeah.


Is that what you're experiencing? Oh, yeah. Yeah. My friend Aaron Snyder, he's been on the podcast before. He owns Cafaro. It's a big backpack company. They make like really super high end hunting backpacks. And he spends hundreds of days a year in the woods by himself. Yeah. Either by himself or with other people hunting. And he goes on these long backpacking solo adventures. Hunting. Yeah. Where he goes deep into the woods many, many, many miles.


And by himself with just his camp on his back. That's it. And that's the thing that he's always says, you know, you get in there and then once you get back to civilization, you want to call ex-girlfriends and apologize, call friends and mend fences. And, you know, yeah, just sort of like give you an inventory of what you've been some. I think sometimes we get caught up in momentum in life. You know that life is a series of things that you have to do.


You wake up in the morning, you have to be at work at a certain time. You try to get to the gym, you try to get this, and then you have phone calls you have to make. And then you have to, you know, sync your calendar with the other people you're working with. And then you're this now and then you're planning for in two weeks. We have that meeting and this and that. Ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba.


And you get so caught up in momentum you never stop to take a breath and look at yourself and look at what you're doing and go, is this what I like is this is what I want to do or is this something that I'm just am I on this like sled that's flying down the side of this snow covered mountain? I don't know exactly how I'm going to get off of it.


And you made me think of something. A lot of the places I've been no cell service. And so it's three days and like maybe a textile fire out, but there's no video. There's no no reading YouTube comments, no reading YouTube comments. How nice is that? Yeah, there's been a few days where I'll get the the the cell service and then immediately the contents more than.


Yeah I know we talked about this before. I want to try to adopt that.


What is it you said post and Ghost I and Ghost. I want to try to adopt that because I am sort of on the opposite approach. I'm like kind of interacting very much with with, with those comments.


And I'm sure the fans like that, the nice fans.


I find it kind of a fun, creative exercise, like sometimes I'll have, you know, a hater or whatever, and then I'll go out and do a little thing with him.


And it's fun. But for the most part, I've created kind of a very positive thing. But but like, what's fun is just getting away from it from the phone. But like what you said is exactly what it's been like going through that. I just love it out there. And. And what have you learned about yourself?


Definitely that I've been on my phone too much, but I think I think one thing that I've learned is that that I, I actually do.


Pretty well being alone, actually, I was I was worried that maybe I would would not be able to like I thought one of the things I was thinking when I started this whole process of planning was plan for several months, getting the van, getting all the stuff ready.


I thought, what if I get out there and I can't stand it? You know, what if I don't, you know, two days in. But I got to go home. I need my shower and my bed.


But but I actually. After a couple of days, I just start to really kind of get very relaxed and you start to kind of feel a very nice connection with with with with nature, I guess. I mean, you know you know, I'm going to bed at.


8:00 at night. 9:00 at night, waking up at five thirty in the morning. You know, making my coffee as the sun is rising over a mountain and so I'm watching the sunrise and it's cold, it's cold in the morning up there. And so especially when I was up in northern Utah, like my cold.


But there's a whole system to keeping the van warm and stuff, too.


But but so sound system to keeping the vanua. Well, so the first few weeks I didn't have the proper insulation on the windows, so I ordered this stuff for the van windows. Do you glue it to the windows? Are magnets, magnets?


You just take it off and I stick a thick sort of a padding.


So you heat up the van inside and then you put that up and I put it on first.


I put it on. I put it on. It covers the windshield, the two front passenger, all windows, they're completely sealed. And then I start the engine and I, you know, run it.


I don't run the gas out, but I, you know, run it for ten minutes. The thing heats up and then I just don't open the door. And I do that right when it's time to kind of crash. How long does it keep it warm for?


You know, it's warm until I fall asleep and then I wake up in the morning freezing my butt off. But no, it's not too bad. I mean, I don't think this would be something that you would want to go out in the winter in. But but but, you know, this time of year, it's and down here in Texas, it was it was nice. The last last few days have been nice.


This is a guy who's got a video. He he's living out of his van to doing the same sort of situation. He's very organized, got the whole deal. But he's doing it in Colorado. Yeah. And he's in the middle of the winter, like, covered in snow and does all these detailed things like how he gets out of snow, what he does and how he stays warm.


Yeah, it's it's I imagine it would be a lot less simple up in that kind of.


Well, just camping in cold weather is rough. You know, you have to have the right insulated sleeping bag. You have to make sure that you have.


Yeah. Down booties, down booties. That's my new discovery on the Internet. Right. This is what's hilarious about the world we're living in now with the Internet and everything, having access to everything before I left to start researching. Oh, here's a guy talking about winter camping down booties, right? There's all these little feathery down things. You can't put them on your bare feet at night. And where I'm in your sleeping bag or and your feet are warm right off your feet or so, I start like sort of seeing all these little things that I.


Oh, that'll help, you know, you know, these little products.


And you go on Amazon shows up at your house the next day, your supplies start building up, you know, but you have these down booties and and, you know, I've got I've got nice, you know, merino wool undergarments and things like this and I think is a merino wool.


It's hunting stuff.


You know, merino wool is great because when you get wet, it doesn't make you cold. Yeah. If you get wet and cotton and then you get cold, you're in trouble. Yeah.


Like the issue is if you're going somewhere and you're hiking and it's cold out, well, even though it's cold out, if you're hiking and you're wearing a lot of layers, you're going to sweat. But if you sweat and you're wearing cotton, you're in big trouble. Right? Because as soon as you cool off that wet cotton freezes, it feels terrible.


Yeah, but wool was different. Yeah. Wet wool keeps you warm. Yeah. Like you can be in wool and it gets wet.


It's wet still. It's not the most comfortable thing. But you're warm.


Right. It's, it's very interesting. Yeah. Because I guess because it's like an animal fibre, you know it's.


Yeah. I mean it's, it's, it's been relatively comfortable.


It's been a few nights where I've been a little colder than I would have liked to have been. But and a lot of the places right now I've been right now I've it's no fires because of the because of the dry.


So so there's you know, but the last week I was in a place I could have a fire.


So keep a nice campfire gone. But you and I talk. Where were you.


I was in that was up. And then Heela National Forest known that the Lincoln National Forest. Lincoln National.


So you went to New Mexico and then you drove your way up to Austin? Well, first, I actually first saw one of the most beautiful places I went, by the way, was in Utah. I went to this place called the Valley of the Gods. I've heard of them on the Navajo reservation there. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Oh, there's a video of that.


I don't know if you have a video that drone shot, that is it's like they shot all the John Wayne movies out there in Monument Valley.


And then just down the road is this place called The Valley of the Gods. Look at this place. So look all alone right there. That's you. Look at that.


That's your drone footage. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And, you know, a big part of this for me is also looking for places that are going to photograph. Well, you know, because I enjoy photography and video.


So do you have all this stuff on Tom Green dotcom? Is this on YouTube? I put it on my YouTube channel. Yeah. Yeah. And then I link it to my website. Yeah, it's on time green dot com to you.


So so I get these shots. You see Charlie Chaplin out there.


Charlie is like intrigued by the drone, like the first ten times I've flown it, she just sort of see she's going under the van because she hears the drone coming.


Did you call her Chopper and Charlie? No, I'm just not Charlie. Someone called Chopper did I just called Chopper. Oh, maybe that's a good nickname, that's your new middle name, Charlie Chopper. Why don't I call a chopper and someone else call our chopper outside?


Yeah, Charlie Charlie named after travels with Charlie, the John Steinbeck novel. And if you see on the van, see at the back, you can't read it.


But there's a blurry world right above the rear wheel. It's Rocinante, which is what. Yeah, right there, which is Steinbeck called his van Rocinante, which is named after Don Quixote's horse. So there's it's why the layers of images there. But look at that shot. Isn't that amazing?


It is amazing. I love your shirt, too. That's a very lumberjack shirt you're wearing in there.


Oh, yeah. It's warm. It's warm. The last shot of this video, I don't know if you can just tell that it has so pretty. Lasha, this video I waited for sunset. Well, here's my here's how I take a shower.


So you can just go out there and camp anywhere you want. Just pull over and camp. Yeah. Now, do you have any concern about running into serial killers?


Well, that's why I got the shotgun, Joe. But, you know, look like a serial killer. Yeah. You look like a like if I was going through there with my family, they you're like, hello?


And you just waving a black off fuck.




Yeah, they know what it was crazy. You know, I look at the last shot right after this. So there's this sunset. I kind of like, look at those, those boots in the background. See that the shot after this one to just let it just let it roll. You'll see it's let it roll. You'll see. But there's I kind of like to wait for the sun to get these nice shots. So this is the shot here.


Watch this drone shot is pretty cool.


So and to kind of get these interesting images, you'll see the sun will go.


Now, what do you strap on the drone? Is it built in with. It's got a camera on it. So this is just not even a super look. Watch the sun disappear. And then and then the music that's playing his music that I made in the van is a score. You could you can play the audio if you want it to my music. But it's a score. I'm doing this sort of ambient score kind of drugs. You get, you know, nothing too crazy.


But so I see the sun pop says like ocean music.


Yeah. Yeah. It's like music that I expect to hear about, like a documentary on whales. Yeah. Yeah.


That's it's kind of a Brian Eno influenced type of vibe.


Are you doing a video whenever you feel like it, are you doing them on a schedule?


I kind of just am always shooting stuff and then I'll edit. And sometimes all the first, the first, the first month I didn't post as much because honestly I was trying to figure out how to survive out there.


And now I've got a good system. I saw I think the videos are going to start coming a little more fast and furious now because was there a moment we were like, what the fuck am I doing?


I need to go back to L.A. every day, every day, every single day. I get up and say that for real. And I'm not even a every day I get up and go, what the fuck am I doing?


But you keep going. Yeah, because I have I have some I have some things on the agenda that I want to accomplish in the next month in Texas when I leave here. First of all, I don't know why I'm sleeping tonight. I don't know where I'm going tonight.


But I'm I have a few little interesting tricks for that, too. But if I ever get stuck in a bind. Right, I've been driving and I haven't found a nice place like that.


I'll go to just a straight up truck stop and I'll wedge in between a bunch of 18 wheelers, crash, get up in the morning and, you know, start finding my destination.


What I've been finding is I get on these sort of this sort of pattern where I'll go a couple of days where I don't find a place like that, you know, that's like but every three or four days I'll find a place kind of at that level of beauty. And then once I'm there, I'll stay there for four or five days and just really get into it.


I'll shoot a lot of video, I'll edit and I'll create some music and create some things. And then when I get back to sell service, I'll post and then I go look for the next spot. So my agenda when I leave here today is I want to go around Texas and go find some ghost towns and ghost town. Lots of ghost towns in Texas. Lots.


There's apparently there's 500 of them, you know, 500 ghost towns back in the silver mining and gold mining days when they built the railroads.


First of all, the silver would dry up, the town would dry up. So there's these towns that are just. You know, dilapidated, broken downtowns in the middle of that, didn't Kim Basinger by one of those? She did. She did. Right in Georgia, right?


I think so, yeah. Yeah. And I won. She must be losing her marbles. Like, why don't you buy a ghost town?


Yeah, I don't I don't know. But, you know, there's a real sort of beauty to it because so there's two things I've been doing that I found I really enjoy. And they're new things. So I can't speak to them like with total detail.


But I'm you know, next time I talk to you and have a lot more information about this, the other thing is native ruins of like like is there is unbelievable amount of Native American ruins out there in the desert in New Mexico.


The reason I was in the Heela National Forest, I went to the the cliff dwellings that were built by anaesthetising those Anastasia's in Colorado and this but it looks just like kind of that's exactly like that.


And so there's other than where the the Mongolian Indians, they were called in twelve eighty.


They know. And so that video is that is a clip of that 12 eighty. Yeah. There's a clip of that in the Arizona one. There's a clip of that. And these are.


Like, first of all, a very remote that was right, actually, where we saw the javelina was right after I went there.


There are 50 rooms in this thing built out of stone up on a cliff they've created. So but it was built in twelve eighty and then not discovered by the park. Ranger told me this last week.


Yeah. Right here. Wow. That's just sitting there. Not discovered. Not discovered until 1874. Right. 1874. And so they discovered this and it wasn't until a few years later that Roosevelt, Theodore Roosevelt made it a national monument.


So in the period between 1874 and I think 07, it got looted a bit.


When they found it, it was full of pottery. It was full of all this artifacts and stuff that got looted that's gone. But there's some things in there that were really interesting that they did discover, like they discovered a mackoff, whether this is this is pretty beautiful places while. Yeah.


And you're this is all drone footage.


Now, this is me shooting with my my handheld camera. So you're allowed to walk around up there. Yeah.


So they have a nice it's really set up nice. It's as you drive in on a nice paved road and then there's a national park. State Park or National Park is the Healing National Forest Facility there, National Park Facility, I believe. But and there's some some rangers there and some some people with knowledge of the history. And then they have a nice maintained path that walks up to, well.


Were there people up there looking at it with you?


There was on that day I saw the sun was kind of going down there and there were two other people. That's it. And they walked up ahead of a national monument, reliquefy cliff dwellings.


Yeah. And the healing wilderness, the Hilo wilderness is where they have some of the best elk hunting in the world. Yeah.


Yeah. There was a lot of hunters out and and I saw some elk assessments this year. Yeah. You hear them screaming. I didn't. I did not. But but that's. They were. The thing that I noticed about the elk, which was just the one time I saw them, was they were I was driving, so I was driving a. Very remote, sort of I'm not going I'm I'm not taking any interstate's I never take an interstate all the way from L.A. the whole way to here.


I maybe was on the ten for, like. Maybe a couple of miles just to get from one highway to another, so you take the smaller highways and then you see like these towns, these places that, you know, went away when the railway was built somewhere else and they put the interstate somewhere else, the town dried up. And then there's these towns that are just kind of half alive and fledgeling towns. And it's a real beauty there to do it.


Right. So, you know, from a photography standpoint, you know, like there's a lot of nice architecture and things that it's just really interesting.


So but he consciously made a decision in the beginning of this journey to not take any interstates. Yeah. Yeah.


Because I want to I want to go find these places that are off the beaten track and and photograph them, really. But so I was coming around a corner and there's a herd of elk and.


They were sort of in the distance and they were running like playing with each other. I've never seen it like this one was running and how many rounds this whole thing was us?


Oh, like seven days ago or something. OK, so it wouldn't be the rut.


The rut is in September. Yeah. They were running sometimes they brought in October. Yeah.


So one it was one was running and I thought they were horses for sure because I just thought well I've never seen that. And it was fast, really fast like this. It was a farmer's field and they're playing with each other.


Yeah. And then, then the car pulled up. I pulled up my car and they immediately stopped and looked at me and walked off into the woods. But but yeah, it was it's it's it's beautiful out there, man. But yeah. Ghost towns, that's that's where I'm going after this. I'm going to go try to find some ghost towns and and photograph those and and I'm writing, you know, I, I write in the van. I'm working on things that I'm working on, you know, if, you know, I'm not just completely off the grid.


I mean, I'm writing an animated series right now that I'm sort of working on.


So I'm on my computer sometimes. Animated series.


Yeah, there's this I I'm working with this great company out of Ottawa, my hometown called Mercury Filmworks, and they're they actually animate Mickey Mouse and all sorts of stuff for Disney, the big, big animated company.


And so I'm writing a fun show about a crazy kid who likes pulling pranks and and you know. And so about you.




It's called little Tommy Green on the nose. It's like a Dennis the Menace, you know. But he goes out and pulls pranks on his parents and does a lot of the kinds of things I did. So but but, you know, so I'm writing that and and just kind of you know, it's interesting.


I've found that, like, I can kind of do everything that I would do at home in the van, you know, with this electrical system, you know, so it's pretty, pretty neat.




You seem like you're in a good place, like. Yeah, it's seems like it's been tricky. But you I mean, I'm getting the impression that you're really enjoying this.


I am. Is this going to extend how are you going to do this for this?


Is this has been a this is a very good question. This your new life? It's possible, really. I'm not selling my house or anything. And I think what I'll do is, I mean, I bought the van and I didn't rent it for a quick one off trip, you know, and I've put a lot of time into it and I am enjoying it.


And, you know, one thing, as I've always loved photography, I'm bringing a Leica film camera as well.


So I'm shooting a lot of still photography as well. And it's nice to have something to take a picture of.


You know, it's nice to go somewhere interesting. So I'm enjoying that.


But I think that I think that what I'll probably do is.


You know, when life gets back to normal, whenever the fuck that us right now, what is normal anymore? Part of my plan is to you know, when I start touring again, doing stand up again, I think I might take a few less airplanes in the future and be in the van a little bit more.


And so I'd say if you have a gig, if you decide to stand up in Utah, you might drive there. I'm thinking I might start to talk to, you know, the way I buckett about sort of doing more of a road trip type run of like in a straight line as opposed to go on. And, you know, right now in Seattle this week and Boston next week. Right. We have to do East Coast run or do.


Yeah, that's smart. So so I'm thinking it might be something that I do. I mean, I, I'm not I'm not moving into my van full time, but I definitely do of moving in that direction.


It seems like.


Look, I it's interesting what you say I believe is is true because you get in there, Phil, by the way, this is the way I make coffee, too.


I make coffee with this thing. This is not an endorsement or anything, but it's pretty cool products called a jet boil.


Yeah, yeah.


Yeah. Those are great. Yeah. They're great for hunting. Yeah. So because I don't wanna use my battery so I boil my water and then I make my coffee and I pour it into a thermos coffee all day and hot coffee and it's amazing that stays hot.


So I was thinking about that and technology thinking about that exact thing. I'm going. Is the technology as thermostat technology changed. Oh yeah. Since in Canada I was a kid, you'd take a thermos to hockey because we play outside on outdoor rinks and you'd bring a thermos of hot chocolate.


We didn't. Yeah, well, when I was a kid we used to ice fish and we'd bring hot coffee. Oh yeah. Out onto the lake. Yeah. Did much of that.


It's it's fun. It's not as fun as regular fishing. But when you're living in a place like Boston. Yeah. We're in the hut on the now we're just out there. Yeah. What were you fishing for.


Pike or trout. Usually trout. Yeah. Pike too though. Yeah. Pike are pretty active in cold weather. You do about fishing these days.


I do what I get when I can just unfortunately ever since I moved to Austin it's been kind of playing catch up and getting everything set up. And, you know, just I'm still not totally moved.


I mean, I moved in, but I'm not totally settled in, but I'm pretty close.


Yeah, well, I didn't catch much trout growing up, mostly largemouth bass.


And Pike was where I would what I would fish for. But but yeah.


Thermos technology. I don't know if it's changed, but it's amazing.


Oh yeah. Yeah. Flip the fucking game on its head. Really. Yeah. Yeah he cooler's are amazing. I have a yeti cooler that I take when I hunt and you can put ice in that yeti cooler in the summer and seven days later you'll have ice. It's bananas. They're crazy.


I, I took a video that I put on my Instagram of we shot deer in Hawaii, shot acces deer in Hawaii, put the you know they put the thing in the cargo, the seal up the yeti and got it all the way back to L.A. left it outside overnight. Then the next day at noon I opened it up and it was filled with ice, like I'm to like rock solid ice.


OK, it's crazy how good those things that's better insulated. That's better than I just have a regular thermos for my coffee. But that's pretty amazing. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know.


The coolers are way better. The thermoses are better. Those you know. Yeah. He makes those tumblers, they'll keep your coffee hot like literally all day. I don't know what they're doing. Some voodoo but it's fucking amazing.


I loved in the I love the the sock foot walk in when you did the when you were with Steve. Oh yeah.


When you're sneaking up on you guys that you've done before. Yeah.


Yeah. My friend Remy Warren calls it an S.O.S. a shoes off situation. Like when you're, when you're closing in on particularly on mewl dear oh dear are very sensitive to predators. Elk are not nearly as sensitive elk here.


A lot of the elk are a big animal and you know, they're worried about mountain lions and bears and stuff like that.


But, you know, they're they're little less worried than the smaller animals are.


So mule deer particularly worried to they're very jumpy. They're always like listening I on their ears or twistin. And if you snap a branch, they'll they'll pop up and start running.


Was that obviously that was a fun day with you and Steve out there. But like what was was that must have been that was in Nevada wasn't.


Yeah. That was in the Nevada high country where 100 mule deer we struck out. Yeah. But I got real close a couple of times to deer. Just didn't really get a shot.


Did you feel is it kind of sort of nice sometimes when they get away. I mean because you feel like because.


Well it's a luxury because I'm living in a first world country and I have access to food and I'm not starving.


And you know, so it's a it's a luxury that I can enjoy the fact that they got away, because this is something that I've been grappling with a little bit, because, like I said, I'm not a hunter or haven't.


But but now I am.


Hunting, but I haven't actually seen anything, so I'm just looking I'm just saying what I'm saying I'm hunting. I'm just I'm looking for something. You're looking for birds. And in my mind, I'm thinking, OK, grouse or quail.


I could probably, you know, wrap my head around that. Yeah. Because first of all, you know, I'm eating Runyon's and canned beans out there and I'm cooking onions, but, you know, yeah, that would be pretty tasty, you know, and I chicken out there, you know, and then I saw wild chicken. But the thing is, is I also kind of know I'm never going to find one because I don't know what I'm doing right.


So, like and I don't have I think you really need dogs that are trained to rouse the birds out.


Not necessarily. You know, you there's a lot of birds that you can get if you just so I've done some research.


OK, so I went to I went to this was a top of a mountain.


Where was this? This was on the road for a while.


But it was you know, I know the dusk the dusty grouse is native to the certain elevation in the way such plateau. That's where I was the Wasatch Plateau in Utah.


And I went up there. I don't think that's how you said what, Wasatch? I think that's a yeah.


Right. Yeah, I just I just I don't know. I just read the sign when I go up the road.


I know the whole country that know. Oh my God. Yeah. And they're in the aspens. And so, you know, I walked out, but there was a moment where I was walking through the aspens, looking for the the dusty gross and. You know. Didn't see one, and then there were three beautiful deer standing there, like as far as Jamie away, looking at me, standing there with my shotgun, looking at them, I'm just like.


I don't know what I'd do with you guys, but I'm pretty hungry right now, but I'll let you guys let you guys go and keep people looking for my bird. But but so I don't know.


I don't know that I would ever have even really want to shoot a mammal, a mammal for some reason. Yeah. I don't know if I let you eat them. Yeah, I know. I know. And I've heard you talk about this and I agree with it. But but but but I just don't know if I'd be able to do it. I don't know.


You would definitely be able to do it if you had to for food. Yeah. And I'm sure you would develop a different sort of relationship with the animal. You would think that you're you're very appreciative of them. But you will you'll develop this real predator prey relationship with animals if you need to survive.


You know, I've talked about this many times, but unfortunately, I won't talk about it again. There's a fantastic series that Vice Guide to Travel did back in the day, quite a few years old, at least eight years old, I think it's called hindmost Arctic Adventure. And it's a guy I think his name is Hinako Couth. I think that's his last name. And he lives up in the middle of nowhere in Alaska.


And he actually has a license to be in this particular area or permit to be in this particular area that no one else can ever have a house in there again. He's like grandfathered in. Yeah. And all this guy does is go out in subsistence hunt. So he goes out and hunts, Cariboo goes out and he fishes and that's all he does. That's that's his whole life. And this guy has this incredible connection to to life and to to his food.


And but he's also a very articulate, intelligent man. So when he talks about it, he's able to talk about it. In a way.


This is the guy right here. Wow. So he's got all of his food and it's frozen. So that's his cabin. That's where he lives. Yeah. Yeah. And he's been out there since, I think since the 70s, man.


And had super fun. Yeah, I think so.


Super fucking healthy and really robust. This guy didn't find out about 9/11 until quite a while afterwards and I think he found out from a photograph. Oh my gosh, yeah.


He lives up there. It's like one of those with his wife, Japanese soldiers they found in the woods sort of the sixties, you know. Right. Right. It's still the the war was going on. Yeah. Yeah.


But this guy, he's got a really interesting way of describing what he thinks is great about this life.


Wow. What's where do I find this? This is it's vice guy to travel. Oh yeah. There it is. Surviving alone. Alaska. Hi. Hi Mo ACIM. Oh Korth that sunset KLR Karate.


Wow. Yeah. I watch that show alone actually which I loved if you ever watch that. Yes. That show is amazing. So I kind of was, that was something I was getting in my head and I don't know if it's the latest season, but the one guy who got the moose and Jordan Jonah's right.


And I that's the guy who's been on the podcast.


Yeah. And he, like, made a fishing net out of Ropen. Oh yeah. That was incredible. But no, it's just something, something amazing about it for sure. But so. Yeah. Yeah it's and by the way, like. First of all, I believe I said congratulations already off camera, but how cool is this man?


Thank you. Congratulations, buddy. I you know, I'm super I'm just makes sense to say proud of you because, I mean, what the fuck does that mean? But, you know, like I am, though, I mean, like, I just I think it's so cool. I sent you a text right after the after you announced your Spotify deal. I was just thinking, like, nobody has ever done that before, you know, like like in the history of all broadcasting.


And I said, you know, Johnny Carson was the guy who we all looked up to back in the day, had everybody watching him. It was a different world. Television was, you know, three networks.


Everybody watched Johnny. He was a guy who became this very successful person off of traditional media. But to do what you've done is just so incredible. And I just congratulations.


I know it's definitely something that, you know, I you know, we talked about this before, but I always thought you could do that.


You could do that. You could be the biggest show and not be on network TV. I always believe that. And thank you for for for for proving it because it's like it's so cool. And I love the studio, by the way.


So well, thank you for being a pioneer man, because you I mean, I'm really living in a log chopping wood for dinner.


But you were a pioneer of this because you gave me the seeds of the earliest ideas about doing a podcast.


Well, and you've been very kind with when you've said these things to me over the years and last time. But but you know what I what I find amazing about it that I never was able to figure out I was into the technology and I was never really able to figure out what is so amazing. What I've watched you figure out is. You've really made a show that really captures the interest of people, you know, a huge population of people love what you guys talk about on the show, and that's what's what's really cool, you know?


You know, just just I mean, how did you determine that? Like, you know, I just watched your interview with Kanye. I just watched your interview with Alex Jones. And I'm just I'm just seeing all these subjects that I see swirling around. And I'm going, well, that's the kind of stuff that like when I go down a rabbit hole on the Internet, like I want to I want to, you know, learn about these.


Yeah. Things. Was there a moment where you realized, oh, wait, like if I talk about, you know, X, Y or Z, that's really capturing people's attention or whatever, not just what you were interested.


Never for a second. Never for a second. And I said this is going to capture people's interest. Never everything has been like, oh, I want to talk to that guy. That guy said he was in a Navy a Navy jet and he was tracking a UFO commander, David Fraser, who I want to talk to him. Yeah. Oh, Bob Lazarre said he worked on alien technology, an area. As for oh, I want to talk to him.


Oh, this guy said he saw Bigfoot or that guy says he's working on life extension and figuring out how to lengthen your telomeres or this guy knows how to, you know, whatever it is, whatever they're figuring out the age of the universe or people are just, you know, people that are writing books or people that are, you know, former military people or people that are whatever they are.


If I find them interesting, I like people. I'm a big fan of people. I like talking to all kinds of different people. I like the way their brain thinks. I like comparing the way people's brain thinks. I like I like sort of like just seeing how they view the world, because the way you view the world is the way you personally view the world.


But it's very much influenced by the things that you found attractive about the way the other people that you've run into see things like we are not individuals in the sense that we're autonomous, completely alone, without any influence whatsoever from the outside world.


We are we have multi influences. We're constantly being influenced by our and that's why you're where you live is so important.


And one of the things that I found in moving from L.A. to Austin is that where you live, it makes a big impact on the amount of stress you have and how you feel.


I feel so much better here, just right away, disconnected from Hollywood, disconnected from, you know, traditional forms of show business.


But also the people here, the people here are different. They're more relaxed. They're regular people. Yeah. Chapell and I were having a conversation about this last night, and he was like we were talking about how, like people here in Austin, they're real people. They're not people that are trying to get famous and people that are trying to, you know, get on television shows and do movies. And there's a weirdness to that life.


And some of the people that do that are really cool.


Yeah, it's it's rare and nice when you run into a guy like Chris Pratt, who is a super famous guy, he's in the movies but could not be more genuine, genuine, could not be more down to earth, could not be more normal and friendly. Super great guy. Just happens to be a big movie star. But that's rare.


Most of the people that want that life, they're all kind of wacky and fucked up.


And you you're in their world with their energy. And they in fact, all the people around them, they infect people that are in the service. Industry managers, agents is just fucking hive of weirdness out here. There's none of that.


There's none of that. And almost immediately, I felt a lowering of stress level almost immediately.


And then the people that you deal with, like whether it's someone who's working at the counter, Walgreen's or a restaurant, they're so nice, they're so friendly.


And so because early on in your show, you had the confidence to just do your own thing, right. You create your own thing. You didn't have, you know, these sort of tentacles coming down, telling you all you can't interview that person.


You know, that let that allowed you to just talk to the people that you found interesting and want to be you happened to be interested in interesting shit.




But in the beginning, nobody wanted anything to do with it. That's what's hilarious.


Like, my agent in the beginning didn't want anything to do with this podcast. Then they were like, what do you do wasting your time? Because back then, like two thousand people watching, listening, it was nobody's listening.


Yeah, I remember with mine, I was trying to tell people, yeah, this is going to be I know you're like, get the fuck out of here.


We're busy with movies, kid. They're busy. Yeah.


So luckily in the beginning when I maybe could have used a little help getting guests or doing things are getting advertisement or something like that, they didn't get involved because if someone got involved, they would have definitely told me to not do things that have turned out to be very successful, like I'm sure there was.


Told me to not interview controversial people or to not interview people that, you know, you get criticized for specific topics or, you know, specific people that are writing books that may, you know, ruffle a bunch of people's feathers.


And I want to know what they think. I want to know why they think the way they think. I want to ask them questions. And there's a lot of people that don't think you should do that. And, you know, and they'll they'll be the gatekeepers to your the information information that you take in and the conversations that you have and you distribute. And it's not good.


That's not like if you talk to someone and it was a mistake. Well, now, you know, but at least, you know, you talk to them. If someone tells you it's a mistake to talk to someone but you want to talk to them and then you start thinking, oh, let me run it by Mike and the team. And then the team will sit around and think about their mortgage.


They sit around and think about whether or not you could get in trouble.


And that could that could eventually lead to them having a decrease in their income and then they start to fucking play it safe.


Yeah, I've seen that man. I've seen that with stand ups. I've seen that with people like there's people that, you know, they have podcasts and they have a bunch of people that are there at the studio telling them talk about different things, telling them to pick different subjects, telling them let's move on. Like I've seen that I've seen in the middle of a podcast, someone say, let's let's move on.


You guys are on this subject. Let's move on. Who the fuck are you?


Let's move on. Some some guy standing on the outside that gets some sneaky paycheck that he doesn't really deserve is now saying, let's move on holding a clipboard as if it like like, what are you doing?


Get the fuck out of here. It's two people talking.


And if they decide to move on, they'll move on.


But people that like, you know, bring up this bring up that, like bring up this. Who are you? Why are you here? But that's what they do. And if you've ever gone to like I went to I did.


What's the guy's name. The the sports guy, Bill Simmons.


I did his show on HBO. He's a great guy, really interesting guy. And I love the way he does his podcast.


But I did his HBO show, Dude, and you're surrounded by people. It's me and him sitting in the booth just like this. But there's fucking people there and there's people there and there's people walking around the set. It's distracting. And his people stand around. They got notes and clipboards and his camera people everywhere.


You're like, this is not necessary. Yeah. You have one hundred people here. Yeah. Or twenty you have twenty people here. You need one. You need one person.


And then managing all of those people becomes a bigger priority than actually the content.


And then you have interoffice politics take place. You have relationships with people.


I mean not not even I don't mean relationships like boy girl, boy, boy, girl, girl. I mean, like boss friends and.


Yeah, and then weirdness, egos, ego.


The boss got ego and then they're mad at the the talent because the talent is getting more attention than that.


And it's everyone's like, yeah, no one would have ever let me do this show. They would have never. Yeah. No one would have ever let me. Yeah. And it's not by design that I did it this way. It's not like I see what they don't see and I'm going to do this is I didn't want to listen.


I like go get out of here. Fuck off.


Where do I want to do you had that confidence in and just straight up sort of just sort of you didn't give a fuck and you just did it. Where do you think that came from.


How fear factor money. Right. That held up you if you're feeling a little bit of fear factor money in the bank.


Well I give this shit completely hits the fan.


You know, I can just sort of live off of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And also, I don't I've never been very good with the whole boss, someone telling you what to do.


If I did that, if I was good with that, I would never become a stand up. Oh, I've never done most of the things that I've done and I certainly would have.


No, thank you. I'm good.


I certainly would have never been able to do the podcast this way if I brought people aboard.


And there was a certain point in time where people were talking about it before the show, the people did want to come on board. And I started getting offers. I've had offers where people wanted to buy half the podcast. Yeah, like pretty generous amounts of money.


Yeah. And I was like, this is not I don't think this is wise. This is not wise. Yeah, I get weird. Spotify, I was the first offer where they came around.


They said we don't want you to do anything different. We just want a license to show.


How do you decide what you're going to ask people. You just gone with the flow. Do you research on stuff? Because I really loved some of the questions you ask. Can you try to remember what they were? But I mean, do you sort of plan in advance or are you kind of just sort of because.


Well, with Kanye, we had talked about doing a podcast for a long time, but I was worried that he was going to come off.


I remember your first question was, why do you want to do this? Right. I just was when he was running for president.


Yeah, that was such a great question because it's like, you know, why do you want to run for president? Everybody would ask that question. Yeah, but it was just it was just right into it. It was just great, you know? Well, I'm a fan of his music. I've always been a fan of his music.


And I think that the way he communiqu. AIDS is sort of manic style of thinking and constantly creating and doing things. It's why he's so successful.


I mean, there's this, like, stream of consciousness that he has is also why he's so prolific as an artist.


Like, I mean, he is all of his albums are good, doesn't have a dud. You know, you go from one album to the next and they're all like, he's got this stream of creative ideas that are constantly running through his head.


And he talks sometimes in these streams where they don't end.


He goes from one subject to the next subject.


And so I was curious as to like how I was going to talk to him.


And I wanted to make sure that we can do it in a way where other people are going to appreciate there's a great value in the way he thinks.


And then if you get it in sound bites or you get it in some weird thing where he says something and people get mad at him and they boom or something like that, like you're missing who he really is, who he really is, is him all day.


It's not him in this 30 second chunk where you don't like what he said. Guess what? He probably doesn't like what he said either. OK, he's fucking streaming. He's just going he's running with these thoughts and ideas.


But that's also why he can boil those thoughts and ideas down these amazing fucking songs, you know, like this is.


That's what I wanted to get out of him while we were talking, because people were trying to medicate him and people were trying to and I'm like, I don't.


If you have a choice between this medicated, overweight Konya who doesn't get anything done or manic crazy Conyers's wild shit, you want manic, crazy Kanye. He's manic, crazy. Kanye is the one who makes amazing music. And I've been around him. He's a nice guy, man. He's a really, genuinely nice guy. And when the cameras are off saying things, nice guy with all the staff and everybody, he's cool, like he's genuinely cool.


But whatever you want to call mental illness, that's the problem. It's like when you call it mental illness. Well, well, you got to give it medicine. He's got mental illness. You got to give him medicine. Do you really? Because that mental illness is making some pretty amazing shit. Right.


Like, look at his fucking look at his catalog. Look at all the music he's made. That's all because of mental illness.


No, whatever you call an illness is a particular style of thinking that he has that sort of non-linear and it's it's wild and it's all over the place. But it's also very focused.


I found in that interview, though, that, you know, I've seen him interviewed quite a bit, but that was that was one where everything he said made a lot of sense. He's certainly done a lot of.


Put a lot of thought and a lot of the stuff he was talking about with everything from, you know, reorganizing the way civilization works. I mean, I know that it takes a little bit thinking to come up with how to reorganize the entire way civilization works.


But that was one of the things that I thought was really good about the interviews you do get a chance to see. Like, this is not just a crazy person who buys his own bullshit. And by the way, when he's like the Bragi stuff that he kind of does, he talks of himself. First of all, he's being honest about where he is.


He's sort of reaffirming who he is. But also he jokes around like he was joking around about it. He was showing us this video that he had made for his wife, for his wife's birthday.


And it was really emotional, was very beautiful because he he made a hologram of her dad and he wrote the script for all this.


Oh, he did. Yeah. And he wrote the script for all the things that the hologram was telling her. And it's really intense.


And, you know, you can do that now or they can take your voice and for you.


And I would be easy for them to do because there's hours and hours and hours of us talking.


So they would take this voice and imagine what they could do. They already have. There's they used me as an example for one of these companies in Canada. They used me as an example for how well this deep fake technology works because there's fifteen hundred fucking plus podcasts of me that are three hours long. So you take these these sounds that come out of my mouth and then you can make me say anything and literally anything is every noise that I'm capable of making I've made.




So you use this catalogue of sounds that my voice can make. And that's what he also did with that hologram. Yeah. Because, you know, Robert Kardashian, there's all the cases and all the different times he's been interviewed on television. There's a great catalogue of his voice and you can have him speak to her.


Yeah. But even then, like he has him say, you know, and your genius, genius husband.


But he was laughing when he said it and showed it to us. He was laughing. He thought it was funny that he he had them. Yeah. He had Robert Kardashian call him a genius, amazing genius husband.


Like he thought it was funny.


Like, he's not just it's not just ego. It's not just crazy. It's also there's brilliance there. He's a complicated person.


It's nice to hear that because, like, you know, it's interesting. I don't know, you know, how the media can sort of reframe a person. Right. And take away nuance.


Yeah, people are nuance, man. People are really complicated. You decide to decide that a person is this person because of one sentence they said one time or because of one thing that they did where they maybe wish they didn't or because of one concert they did, where people booed them or what.


Whatever you pick about Kanye that people decide he's this people just love to put someone in a box and categorize them and just decide that they want to dismiss them. And this is the problem with council culture, right?


It's like we have this idea of of of things where we want to boil them down to almost a tweet, you know, things that are like enormously complicated.


A man who's lived forty plus years of his life and in that life has experienced heartbreak and sorrow and success and failure and friendship and betrayal and all these different things and all the the creative passions that you've poured out in your work.


And they want to just boil you down to a sentence or two.


And it's crazy.


It's crazy. It's crazy for the person doing that and trying to boil someone down. It's crazy for people to read it and accept it. It's it's so negative. It's one of the most negative things about social media is that we want to categorize someone by individual tweets or individual statements or people are fucking immensely complex, immensely complex.


And to deny that, to deny that it's it's very disingenuous. It's dishonest. It's bad for our understanding of us. It's bad for our our understanding of who we are personally as a human. When when someone decides to define you based on a sentence or call you Tom Green is just a bump, a bump bump. And then you read it. You're like, oh, shit, I am. Yeah. Felt like we were talking about then you start to believe it.


But that's when the comments are negative.


You know, when you're reading comments, you're reading one person's typed out thing that's negative about you and you're saying like, oh, I can't help myself. Like, oh yeah, that that is all.


There's a real issue with the way human beings are taking in other people's opinions.


It's not that there's anything wrong with taking in people's opinions, but people's opinions are supposed to be shared like this. Like you and I are sharing opinions, like you tell me something and I. Tell you something, and I say, did you mean this like, no, no, I meant that. And you're like, oh, OK. Oh so you think that you like. Yeah. And then I'm like, oh. Huh.


Then we get each other, we're talking. But it's an exchange.


It's very rare that you can just nail something with a sentence or two.


And also there's not you're not limited by time as a normal television. There's what we've got seven minutes before the commercial break. So we've got to get to this on on this.


And then you never really end up talking about anything that's been the the best part about podcasting without a boss is that no one has ever told me, like, it has to be 45 minutes long.


It has to be in here. And let's edit out the parts that weren't as good. Let's chop this up and make that like.


Oh, why, yeah, why so are you going to go back to L.A. at all or, you know, keep the studio there or two, I'm going to fly over it in a plane when it's on fire.


You're not going anywhere but the comedy story, when Gavin Newsom don't he when he detonates the nuclear weapon that he has under his desk.


What about stand up? Because they decide that they're going to kick him out of office.


The comedy is going to have a suicide vest on. Yeah, I do miss the Comedy Store, but the Comedy Store is not the Comedy Store anymore because it's not open.


Right. But when it opens up again, you're going to see if what if is the word L.A. is on a 10 p.m. curfew. Now, you know why? Because covid has a Batebi time, covid after 10:00 p.m. it comes out and attacks people before 10:00 p.m. But we got that assignment right when the vaccine next, it will open up again.


And why why 10 p.m. that's so arbitrary. You tell me you can't catch cold between six and 10, which is going to be some sort of a thing that happens after ten people are much more vulnerable.


Get drunk. And it's nonsense, man. It's nonsense. These fucking assholes are imposing rules on people that close their businesses down. You still don't know whether you want to drink. Sure. That's what you want. If it's OK, I'll have one. Yeah, I get you nervous.


All this crazy talk of covid you just mentioned alcohol and I thought, hey, are you still drinking on the show? Yeah, we can have some sort of.


Tamiko, let's get us some whiskey. Know some Texas whiskey and some glasses. No ice. We're going like men today. No ice bucket.


What kind of whiskey you drinking here in Texas? I never. We have. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But do you have a favorite. I've been drinking Bushmills.


That's good stuff. I like Buffalo Trace. Oh yeah. We had two. It's a sponsor and they've been around since before America started. Oh okay. They've been around since 1773. I see. And it's really good. They one like whiskey maker of the year 2020. Yeah.


Bushmills is my grandfather's Irish heritage. You know, it's real shit. Northern Northern Ireland.


So, you know, my friend Josh Barnett has a great whiskey as well. Goddammit, I don't have a bottle here to remember the name of it. It's like war master. It's like a smoky whiskey. It's very good. He brought it last time he was on the podcast. Yeah, I drink.


I drink and scotch to Balvenie Scotch.


I like getting hammered out there in the woods by yourself in the woods.


I don't have the Balvenie in the woods.


I bring I've got a lot of mini bottles like airplane bottles. Oh I've got a fridge full of those do you. Yeah. Why don't you just have a big bottle and glass once you open it.


You know you don't really want to open a bottle of booze in your van driving around, so you just drink them one at a time and oh I have an open container and that's my idea.


I came. Oh that's right.


You can't have an open container in a car.


Yeah, exactly. You do. Yeah, exactly. So I just got a bunch of little ones that drinks. Quite smart sir. So it's a healthy pour my friend. So my brother.


Thank you Jesus. Mm hmm.


This is still Austin. Straight bourbon, whiskey, local stuff. Oh. Logit right. Very nice. Yeah, very good.


Bourbon. It's just I don't drink a lot of corn. Right. Bourbon. I don't drink alone so I don't know. No I'm a social drinker. I don't think I've ever done you and me I guess. But yeah. I smoke weed alone though.


Yeah yeah yeah. I like to do that before I. Right.


Yeah yeah. I heard Carlyn talk about that. I mean, red or something, you talked about how he let me get this right, I got it.


He wrote me first and then he would write to publish one he would drink and one he would he would drink when he was coming up with ideas and he would polish it up with some weed, I think. Oh, really? Or maybe was the other way around.


But yeah, he definitely would punch it up with with pot. He said he would smoke pot and then punch up the material.


It's interesting, like how are you supposed to write totally straight. You know, I write in the morning a lot. Totally straight, right.


Because you're kind of got that energy.


But I guess a lot of times they're just it's just a scaffolding, just a framework. And then Pott's like, I got an idea when I smoked the weed in the weeds, like, I got an idea. Yeah.


Feel like it's cheating sometimes because the ideas aren't really mind the weeds, ideas, the weeds.


Like, listen, it's just relaxing your mind and taking you away from your distractions and allowing you to just kind of relax and think of things that you might not have thought of if you were distracted by all the seriousness of life. Right.


I think it's more complicated than that. I think your body is interacting with molecules that it doesn't come in contact with in the regular world. And these molecules have a spiritual connection to the universe that you're not able to access without them.


That's what I really believe. Right. Say that again. I think the molecules of marijuana in particular, when you smoke pot and you just get this, there's a there's a connection that you get with the universe. It's not available when you're sober. Right. When you're when you're sober.


I think your feelings are in some ways and they're deadened by an accumulation of life experience, an overwhelming burden of your existence and your friends and your bills and your obligations. And you're like, there's all these things going on and all these things sort of like squash and deaden your sensitivity and.


And then everything just vore, everything opens up and then you have access to thoughts and ideas and feelings that you're just not available without the weed, right?


Yeah, absolutely. It's it's a beautiful thing. That's a beautiful thing. I remember the first time I was on your show. How many years ago was that at your house? Well, I think that's back in the day. We're pretty. I think we were pretty high for that one.


I think we got too high a lot of times for those shows. Yeah. Yeah, that's right.


And, you know, the last time I was here, I was like, oh, I don't really like to smoke when I do the thing because I kind of get quiet, you know, I get nervous.


Yeah, we were talking about the election yesterday and I did it with Donelle and then Dave Chappelle. Come on. I got way too. I I'm trying to think of what I really think about the election while I'm doing it.


Yeah. Like on one hand I'm like, I hope people are more relaxed, like the people that hated Trump. I hope they're more relaxed. And I hope everybody just like maybe maybe the country can heal together. But the other side, like the people that think that Trump got robbed, like they're angry and it's like it's almost like people are more separated than ever before. And, you know, and there's a lot of people that, like there was no election interference, there was no election fraud.


And like, I think there's always election fraud. Always the question is how much of it is there? Yeah. If you're dealing with hundreds of thousands of workers, like we were talking about it yesterday, like, what is the number of election fraud?


Is it what's the percentage? It's not zero. Is it more than zero? Most people think it's more than zero. Yes. Like so what's the number? Is it only like a thousand episodes of fraud in the whole country? Over millions and millions and millions of votes.


And it's really non you know, in terms of like the overall effect, it's it's it's quite possibly it's not, you know, in my opinion, I don't I don't know.


I mean, I just I haven't done anything to research it, so I wouldn't be able to tell you for sure.


But I just worry about the state of the country in terms of like this polarization between the two sides, the red versus the blue, because I think it's mostly bullshit. I think mostly people are just Americans.


And we need to just like whoever is in office now, let's just like let's support them and hope they do the best. Because one of the things we were saying yesterday was that I feel like when Trump was in office, people literally wanted the economy to tank so that he would be a loser. They wanted things to go bad because they didn't want him to do well. They would rat.


Like I was saying, if you gave a lot of hardcore people that were Trump haters, the choice, would you rather have the country do fantastic and have Trump's all of his ideas turn out to be the best for our our culture, our economy, joblessness, everything. Everything is doing great. But he's bragging. He's on TV. Or would you rather have everything tank and he goes to jail, fuck him, put him in jail. I think there's a lot of people that would say that they would rather the economy go to shit.


And Trump wound up getting put in jail and removed from office than him being a winner and being successful.


It's very strange because he's such a polarizing figure that we we would rather him fail. And then the United States, not we some people would rather him fail. And the United States being a real bad situation than him kick ass and do amazing in the United States booming. But this asshole that you hate is like the hero.


What you do here is amazing because you have this sort of very broad audience of people on both sides on your show. And you have found a way to, I guess, not polarize it so badly that half the people don't want to pay attention.


I don't think we do have two sides. You don't? I think it's a lie. I think we have America.


I think we have you know, we're saying that somebody wanted to write something about you, like a negative comment about you on YouTube.


I like that.


By the way, you don't have two sides. I like that because I've been thinking a lot about that lately. Because I've been I've been you know, I don't if you see in some of the videos, I, I got my U.S. citizenship last year.


I think I told you that. Yeah. Yeah.


Well, they let me in after twenty years, but but so, you know, I got my U.S. flag that I hang from my awning in my videos and beautiful, beautiful thing. You're out there. And part of what I've been doing with, you know, my photos and my podcast and my traveling is I really part of what it is, is I just want to show my little audience at the time that's tuning in. I want to show them how much there is to celebrate in this country.


It's beautiful out there. Yeah. So beautiful. It's rare to go out out there. So it's beautiful. Yeah, I can't believe it. It was.


So, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm flying the flag. I'm very proud to be an American. Right. I am very proud of her.


I can wear these. I know I'm free.


Right. Yeah I and I am. And I'm also proud to be Canadian. I was getting a little grief save that saved that.


You were doing great. You know, I put a little candidate I've said in Canada that I think countries countries are bullshit.


I think you guys are basically Northern Americans. They got mad, right? So I guess we're all North America. Well, you go your Canada, I go, this is no different to me than being from fucking South Dakota. Come on, we're all humans on Earth. I agree with this nonsense.


Yeah. You just have a different king. Yeah. Yeah.


But no, it's it's it's interesting because, you know, I you know, everybody on social media has to kind of you know, if you're putting information out there, you end up now having to deal with getting drawn into this argument, which is frustrating to someone like me, because, you know, I just want to take some cool pictures and tell some jokes and have some fun.


And all of a sudden, oh, I said something that indicated I believe this or that and everyone's mad at you. So, I mean, I think I find it pretty incredible how you found a way of navigating that. Well, I don't know how I did it. I mean, I think being honest is one of them, and then also I don't believe in the two sides, I share a lot of opinions from both sides. I do not have an ideology that is neatly tucked into the left or the right.


Wouldn't you endorse Bernie? I love so I love all of his ideas about helping community. And I think this is a problem.


This is a problem that people that think of themselves as right wing don't they don't want to look at the good aspects of someone from the left, someone from the left like Bernie. First of all, he wants to absolve people of student debt. I think if it's possible to spend trillions of dollars in these never ending wars, it's also possible to absolve people, student debt.


I think getting people into debt for hundreds of thousands of dollars when you're fucking 17 is crazy. Your brain is when I was 17, I was a wild person. I was barely a man.


I was I was crazy for 17, 18 years old. To have a person like me and give them Saddledome down with hundreds of thousands of dollars. Debt is going to follow them to their grave is crazy. And that's a giant percentage of our population. I don't know what it is, but millions of people have saddled down with that kind of debt. Right.


It's too much money and it's crazy and it doesn't make any sense. Education could be something that we make for free. I think we can use our tax money in better ways that benefit the community as a whole.


And I think one of them is by giving people the access to education where it doesn't cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.


Right. Well, and I think we can do that like in Canada. That is a left wing perspective. Right. But I also like guns and I think you should have guns. And I think I'm a firm supporter of the Second Amendment because I know crazy people. And there's people that are bad people. They're violent and they're broken and they want to hurt other people. And I think you should be able to protect your family. Yeah, I think you should be able to protect the loved ones that you have nearby.


You and this is a this is a real situation that comes up. We wish it didn't. Everybody that has a gun hopes they go to the grave and never have to pull the trigger on a person.


Yeah, but but but guess what? Better to have it and not to need it than need it and not to have. Absolutely. Now, we can pretend all day that the world is a perfect place and you're never going to need a gun. But you and I both know that's horseshit. Yeah, right. So this is a that's an opinion I share on the right. I'm a I'm a firm believer in the Second Amendment.


Yeah. And then you get the First Amendment. I would think freedom of expression and freedom of speech is one of the most liberal core tenants that you could you could ever ascribe to that side.


Like the left has always been pro First Amendment. The ACLU literally started out defending fucking Nazis.




Like saying that, like, you have to defend everyone's ability to express themselves, even if their their beliefs are abhorrent, even if they're the most disgusting beliefs in the world. Your ability to express yourself should be a part of being an American. And the way we combat bad speech is not by silencing people. It's by better speech and more speech.


And that's that's how we've figured out the way human beings interact with each other from the jump from the beginning of this country.


And so that right there is sort of like what we were talking about earlier when we were talking about how you had the confidence and autonomy with your show to do what you want to do and what you believe. Politically, that's what you've also done to, you know, you like this, you like that, these are things that are on opposite ends. Why is why do these why do these issues?


Because people get divided so clearly divide and where it's like, well, I can't want health care and a shotgun. Right. Come on. Like, I kind of like like not having to worry about getting sick. And also I want to go hunting. I mean, what's the what's the fucking deal? You know, I can't be 100 percent right.


I couldn't agree with you because you had the confidence and autonomy to be able to just say it because you didn't have all those people around with clipboards and shit saying, well, we better not say that because we're on this channel or that channel.


And this is our message here.


That's a lot of it. Right? It's also that I don't need a job. I don't need I think one of the things and you could speak to this, right, when you're working in Hollywood, you're always wanting to make sure that you're not saying anything that's going to exclude you from being hired. Yeah, right.


Like, if you if you want to work in television, you must be liberal. Yeah. You must. Or you keep your fucking mouth shut.


Yeah. If you want to get a job on television, like you don't really have many, you can't be a right wing pundit on the side and also work on a sitcom.


They don't want you.


Right. Right. Or can you be down the middle though, like you're down the middle. Right. You're not a right wing pundit. You're not a left wing guy.


Can you be down the middle?


But even then, you say something that is contrary to what they believe and then you're in trouble. You can be. Yeah, you can be.


I mean, it really depends on how how open minded the people and how desperate the people are that are hiring you. Like people get desperate.


They get they get panicky, you know, they feel like people get attacked for almost nothing and then they fire them, you know, like because they don't want blowback.


This is a that's a big part of the whole Hollywood experience. Now, like who it was. It wasn't Natalie Portman who was the actress that got in trouble because she played in which's.


They were mad at her because she played a witch with three fingers like glitter. Who is it? It's a new movie. It's so dumb.


She apologized. She literally had to apologize. Why? Anne Hathaway. Thank you. Why?


Because. Because she played. It's in the book. The original book. Right. Describe this witch.


Here it is.


Anne Hathaway apologizes for a portrayal of Lynn Difference. I, Anne Hathaway has issued an apology for the pain caused to people with limb differences by her character in HBO Max movie The Witches.


Based on the Roald Dahl adaptation, Hathaway portrays the evil Grand High, which was three fingers on each hand that resemble the congenital disorder.


I don't know what that is, but it's a hard road.


Dach to find a possible reason. Ectrodactyly that word.


That word is impossible to say. They need to come up with an easier word for that.


It's it's crazy. People are looking for people for things to be offended by.


And this is this and this is Anne Hathaway, I should have said. I played a witch. Yeah, that which had three fingers. Yeah, I mean, no offense to you. Yeah.


It's like no need to apologize. And if you want an apology from that, you you're probably a fucking asshole. And, you know, I'm sorry if you have three fingers. I mean, I'm sorry you have a disease that resembles that.


There may be some benefits to that, too. I don't know what it would be, but will they be. So that was probably with come up with we could probably try to come up with some funny benefits, too.


That's our character, Jamie. Yeah. Listen, I sort of understand what it's like when you have something like that, you know, because I have one testicle, right. So, you know, people will sometimes, like, make a joke about that.


And I'll go. I'll feel like, oh, you know, sorry, because you have to want us. Yeah, because I had the testicular cancer. Right. And then someone will make a joke about, you know, and then I'll be like, oh you're right. It's not that fun when your testicles. Sorry. Not trying to bring them down here but I'm just saying. So it's like what happens now is that, you know, the Internet cheers.


The Internet sort of. Now one person with three fingers is, you know, obviously saddened by that might not even be real.


It might be. It might be. Someone looks at her and goes, you know what? I think she should apologize for people that don't have all their fingers and they get mad.


It might be someone with five fingers.


It's saying this is exactly someone with five fingers, assumes the three fingered person is offended, tweets it, and then the people with the clipboards at the office have to get canceled.


There is there's there's a there's a retraction statement from Anne Hathaway.


Meanwhile, it's actually probably good for the movie. Yeah, right. Because now people I heard about it from my mom because my mom recommended it to my daughter.


She's like, I think they wouldn't enjoy this movie now if they'd just given her seventeen fingers or like, ten fingers. Right. No one's got that right. One would have been offended. Right. That would have been weird anyways.


Like a fucking like like a garden rake. Yeah. Ten fingers on each hand and one's offended. There's no there's no condition we got right. Ten fingers and it's too few that people get upset. And now are we going to get in trouble for sort of giggling about this. I don't know.


Like what if you have three arms on each side. Would people who worship Shiva get upset at you.


Yeah, exactly.


Which is very what I love the. Presence of Ganesh, all of this remover of obstacles that would. Yeah, what's up, Jamie?


I'm reading an article talking to someone that seems like they were on the upset side. It says that it seems like they're more mad that the character has this disability and they're also a villain, not just that they have a disability, it's that they made them bad. Well, isn't the character, like, not a human?


It's a witch.


Yeah, they have fucked up teeth and they're bald and people are mad at their bald also.


Oh, me too. So I forgot. I'm mad now. I'm bald. The reason I'm pissed.


I don't like when people make fun of bald people. Tom, it's not right. Oh really. It's rude. I am bald and I am mad and hathaways bald in that movie. Fuck her. You think it's funny being bald. Do you get mad about it?


No, no, not at all. Though I have a shaved head, I'm super lucky I don't have a flat flat back of my head. Just kind of hot as a bald chick. I did a ball check when I first moved to L.A. She was a singer from nowhere.


You got like a good bald head, though. Thank you. Like, not everybody does not everybody does not like a lot of people with weird heads.


You've got a good bald head. Like it's like almost like it's almost like supposed to be bald. It's almost if. Yeah.


If you had a full head of hair you'd be better off to shave it. Oh I tell you right now, do you ever think about when you had perfect. You know, I should just shave it. It looks better but.


Well I do think the back when I was really freaking out that I was losing my hair, I should have shaved my head earlier on. But I was really worried that I would never get work.


You freak out one.


Yeah, I got hair transplants, minoxidil. I did the whole thing. I have a stupid scar in the back of my head like a big smile from hair transplants from the 90s.


Because I was in show, I was all of a sudden working and I was like, oh my God, my hair's falling out, fuck, what am I going to do? And I was thinking I got to do everything I can to keep working because all of a sudden I was making all this money I was never making before I was on television and that TV hair.


Yeah, you need TV hair. And then once I shaved my head, I was like, oh my God, this is the best thing ever going to have to ever go to a barber.


I just every couple of days ago when I hit it with the buzzers and then I'm good.


Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, then, you know, you don't shave that bitch. You do. I don't know.


It's getting a little crazy, but you kind of look good. It's like a wild, crazy man with the hair all the time. There's been a while but I like it. I like your hair like that.


It's getting a little crazy. You, you can like get by with your hair all fucked up. You look good with like as a guy who has like a sock hat who takes it off and steps into the restaurant on a cold day and sits near the fireplace with a fucked up hair.


It's kind of good.


It works with like I'm in the headphones on. I've made a choice not to put them on earlier because I thought, oh well, you had can go ahead. Yeah, but but but this is I like this.


It locks you in like people always say, well, you're right across from someone. Why do you wear headphones? The reason why is that it locks you 100 percent in the conversation and you're really aware of talking over each other, which, yeah, everyone has a tendency to do.


I was conscious of it, but, you know, done enough of this over the years. I knew to play the mic. Right. But I was missing this this part of it. Yeah.


You know what? Like when people don't want to wear the headphones, I'm always like, OK, I did want to wear them, but I also didn't want to take off my cowboy hat right away because we're in Austin.


Weren't you wearing that around you? All I saw your video is dust on it. You know, it's real dusty.


I got I got this at the Stetson factory about five years ago, and it's a real Texas hat. So, you know, I wanted to to John Lee Stetson.


I debated not wearing it when I came in because I thought I was walking with a cowboy hat on, as you know. But but then I thought, you know, shit, we're in Austin. You know, I got to got to honor your move to Austin, where my friggin Stetson, goddammit. Cheers, my friends. Excuse me. I'm sorry, but no. Thirteen silver dollars about culture.


Culture Wall talks about having a job. Stetson wakes up in the snow in a ditch. I got my health, my job. Stetson got me a bottle for babies. Bluebird wine.


Hmm. And I look up and I left my stash somewhere down in Preston along with thirteen silver dollars in my mind. Nice.


You ever heard a culture war? I've not replaced them after the show.


Oh I wish, but that's right.


He's Canadian. Yeah. Jamie turned me on to him. Jamie is my source because I'm an old man and Jamie's a younger man. Jamie turns me on to good music.


Oh Culter. Well it's a singer. Yeah. Yeah. It was beautiful poetry I thought was I was a poet or.


Yeah, dude, he's he's a guy like a Leonard Cohen, who's also Canadian.


He's he was twenty one and he has this song called Cape McCannon and you listen to it and you would swear to God is an eighty year old man who's been drinking and smoking his whole life.


It literally doesn't make any sense. Like you hear the song and you like what the fuck.


I wish we could play it. Oh, that's him. Oh, young young guy. Yeah. Oh, young as he's here, they want to hear some crazy.


I feel better about not having heard of them. I thought he was like some classic Canadian artist that has been around for 100 years. Oh no, no, no. How did that. But but now I'm glad that you're showing me this one here.


Authentic. This cat is. I love this. We try to get him on the show. We contacted his agent. This was the agent said he works as a ranch hand in Texas.


Over the summer and when he's done, we'll get a hold of you, I bet he's from Calgary, is from Alberta, Alberta, Alberta, because that's where that's where we got the Alberta, Canada, like the Texas of Canada.


Right. But the Calgary Stampede. And so I was right. He's yeah. Yeah. He's a cowboy Canadian cowboy.


Shout out to my friend John and Jen that my friends John and Jen live up there. Yeah, Alberta that I love. Alberta, great. Saskatchewan.


There he is. Yeah.


Oh, wow. He's from Switzerland. You know what? That's cool.


I'm from Swiftian, Saskatchewan. He's only 25 now. My grandparents met in swift current Saskatchewan on my father's side. It's a tiny little place.


How they meet. I don't know that story. I think everybody knew everybody in Swift Current back in the early. It was probably twenty people living there at the time.


But this guy comes down to Texas in the summer and he works as a ranch hand. Yeah, yeah. Summer camp. And then they're like he's not going to be done any time soon. This is like literally like you try to get in touch with them for like publicity. We're blowing them up. I blew blew them up on Instagram when I had when Donald Trump asked me to host a podcast with him and Joe Biden, I put it on my Instagram and with with his tweet, Ann Coulter Walls lyrics for the The Devil Wears a Suit and Tie.


I put a quote from one of his lyrics. I just threw it up there. Oh, is his left it like that.


Yeah, just just just just so people would listen to the song.


So in an up and coming, is he up and coming artist. Oh yeah.


When an up and coming artist says they can't come on the Joe Rogan experience the biggest podcast in all of the world, that must just make you want him to come on the show so much unless you make you like him so much more.


I appreciate you saying I love his music, but I love authenticity. So that's who he is, literally a ranch hand.


He doesn't have time.


He's tending to the cattle like look, whenever he wants to, he can come here. This is like, yeah, come on, have some more, baby. Let's do it. Like Dave Chappelle came on yesterday. Dave Chappelle and I have been friends since. Oh, really? 1990.


Dave was here yesterday. Yeah. Wow. I've never met but he's always like Joe. Eventually I'm going to come on your show eventually is not the first time he was on. Yeah. And he came on because Donna was here and he just dropped in and hung out for like an hour.




And then we're eventually I should probably say this on the show, but I'm going to anyway, because we've been drinking. We're going to Dave and I are going to do a residency here. Yeah. Yeah, we're going to do a bunch of shows here.


Oh really. Yeah. Could I do a spot.


Oh come and do it. Fucking five minutes or something like. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah I would love to fuck. Yeah. I've never met. Dave is a great guy you'd love. I'd love to meet him.


He's super genuine. Yeah. He's as genuine as it gets. He's right there. He's, he's, there's no bullshit with him. He's right there. He's right there with you.


But that's the same thing. Like whenever you're ready I'm here, you know, like the Kanye West things like it was almost the opposite.


I was like. I like him too much.


I don't want to fuck him up, I don't want him to like he was like when the first time he wanted to come on the podcast, it was he was recently unmedicated, like he had done this concert where he said he supported Donald Trump and everybody booed him. And the next thing you know, he's in a mental institution. Remember that.


Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. He was on. That's concerned. Yeah.


Is and then in concert a while after that he said he wanted to.


He wanted to, he wanted to talk about things but nobody wanted to do it or people were afraid to have him on.


And I said I'd be willing, I put it on Twitter, I wouldn't have you on and we could talk about whatever you want for as long as you want to me. And then it became this giant thing and him and I had a conversation on the phone and I really enjoyed talking to him.


But my hesitation was purely that I didn't want to fuck him over, because I do think he's I mean, for lack of a better term, I think he's a special person. I think he's a he's there's a rare diamond.


Right. Like, it's it's hard to make a Kanye West. It's like there's a few people that I know like that, like Joey Diaz. It's so hard to make a joke ideas. You don't get a lot of joy ideas in this life. You get one or two ever.


And when I see a person like Conure Kanye and I see how sensitive he is and I see all these people that are trying to chop him down all the time, and I made fun of his fucking sneakers.


I mean, Jamie, Jamie, give me a pair of Yeezus. And I was making fun of them. But I make fun of everything. I make fun of me, too. But I was like, I don't want this guy to have a bad time. So I resisted having him on.


Really? Yeah. Even though I knew would be a big show, like ratings wise, I'm like, I don't want this guy to say something where people get mad at him. And I would rather him just making music.


And I really got into his music like pretty, pretty deep after. I mean, I always loved his shit like gold diggers. A classic owes a lot of his shit all day. He's got some classic shit. Right.


But after he did after he and I had that conversation, I really got into it. And I was like, man, I don't want anything. I don't want this to be negative.


And then I started getting messages from his people and even some of those people actually got in contact with my wife. And like, we don't want to say anything crazy and having it ruin them or and and I was like, let's just leave it alone.


Your wife involved with producing the show? Zero. How'd they get in contact? She knows somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody. It's like a multi chain step.


Yeah, it wasn't even, but it was like I was like, all right, let's just leave it alone. Yeah. I'm just going to enjoy his music. I'm like, just let Kanye be Kanye. And then when he was running for president and then he was and then he reached out to me a bunch and he's like, and I'm like, all right, let's just do it.


And then he and I had a conversation on the phone and he sounded like super stable and and well, I think creator, you you accomplished what you set out to do, because I thought he was I felt that I saw a side of him that I've never seen because he really was able to have the time and space to say what was on his mind.


He seemed to be in a very good place on your show like he was I've seen him on TMZ and stuff kind of like scattered, but he was great. I'm a huge fan because I think he knows that I respect him.


Yeah. Yeah. So he felt comfortable that I really did a little bit of a role. Right. Right, right. Right.


It's like waiting for this attack. Yeah. Right. He knew there's no attack on me so I think that helped.


He knows I love his music and he knows I think he's a unique human. He's a unique human know hip hop.


I love hip hop because I know I saw you tweeted something about gangster recently.


Love the next gangster. Oh, man. I didn't know Joel a gangster. Oh, my God. Yes.


You know, when I was a kid, I was a rapper and I made rap music and stuff and I made beats.


I still make beats, but and I like just doing it.


But Gangster Man like that was, you know, back guru step in the arena. Sure. No doubt one guru died. Yeah, that was a bummer. But I'm a big fan of DJ Premier. Yeah. Yeah, I'm a I'm a big fan of a lot of that East Coast. Really the backdrop. Yeah.


There's something. Yeah. Like from the his beats are like that boom bap hip hop. Mm.


Well there's this, there's a grittiness to East Coast early hip like kouji rap. Yeah. In New York. Yeah. Giant fan in the streets of New York. I still occasionally listen to a song that cockblock and kouji rap cockblock.




It's a great fucking songs man streets of New York man. That's was a great song. I love East Coast Hip Hop.


Yeah. Tribe Called Quest. Yeah. Low End Theory is my favorite album of all time. If anyone ever asked me what's my favorite album of all time, I say the low end theory tribe called Quest.


If I had to pick one rapper that I'm well, I don't know. Biggie is pretty top of the list, but also Nas like there's something about Nozizwe lyrics like Nas has the best lyrics like Nas lyrics. I'll go back over his lyrics like like that reverse rewind song where he does the whole story backwards. Like come on man.


He's so good. He's so creative. Yeah. And his, his lyrics are there. His dad was a jazz musician.


OK, and I think that's true.


Jazz or blues. His dad was a musician. Yeah.


Like a like a professional, well respected musician and not sort of I think.


Sort of embodied that ethos and put it in the hip hop, you know, because like one thing I remember from Mo Better Blues, you remember that movie, the movie where I remember being, like, real when Denzel Washington was like, wouldn't even fuck his girlfriend cause he had a practice.


I was like, wow, that's dedication. Right.


And I remember thinking like that, that the dedication that a blues musician has or a jazz musician has, what they're just constantly practicing their instrument is so much different than to stand up for the same.


Yeah, well, standards or very similar to. I sometimes think stand up, I mean, put so much of us are sort of like jazz, right? Yeah, but fuckups in that we don't practice like they do, they'll practice for hours and hours every day, getting up on stage every night.


Man, that's practicing, man.


Yeah, but you should practice before you get up on stage. Most comics don't. Yeah.


Well, how are you going to sing in front of a mirror to writing, writing, writing, going over your nose. Yeah. Yeah.


But I mean I'm just, I'm sayin, you know, I feel like because I feel like. I mean, what do I know, but like, you know, you know, it's it's the space between the notes, right?


That's what they talk about with jazz, right. The space between the notes. You discovered that's the same thing. Yeah, we both did, bro. That's the same thing with stand up. It's the space between the jokes even. It's the space between the ideas. Like stand up is the thing that requires.


A lack of discipline, sometimes Hixton up is not just it's like jazz, and any time you're playing a musical instrument, you must be proficient.


Wait a minute, what is marijuana? No, but I mean, what comes from Donna Rawlings? That's some good shit, right?


That's good for now. I'm going to moderate. I'm going to I'm going to monitor that hit and good call.


Yeah. Stand up requires almost a lack of discipline to be. Wild enough to say some of the shit that we say, but also discipline to go over your notes. Discipline to look at all these ideas and try to structure them in a way that's going to resonate with the audience, you know, and then also discipline, like think about the set and what went wrong, what went right and re-evaluate.


And so the words in stand up and the ideas, that's where your fingers are on the piano. Right. That's that's the technical side.


And then the spaces between the words and the rhythm and the timing with the audience, that's where.


Yeah, also your head, right, like where your head's at, because, you know, like I mean, again, like I've had a you know, I've I've enjoyed making music over the years. I wouldn't say that I'm that good at it, but I definitely love doing it.


And you can pull up pull up my video from 1992 of when I was a kid in Canada. I made a rap album.


And to me it was like, I love this. I love it was it was sort of like the technology. Like I loved I loved like I got a sampler.


I worked all summer as a mowing lawns so I could buy a sampler, used sampler. And then I started sampling records, listening to gangster, like, I want to try to do that, you know, and and so.


Oh, so but you know, man like, yeah, this is that's me in the red jacket when I was 18 years old.


And you know this album that's 1990, 1991.


That's the yellow jacket. Look how skinny I am.


I won 18 megapixel camera. Yeah.


Yeah. Well it's it's a bad upload. We actually shot it. So shot on film actually that was shot on sixteen millimeter film on a Steadicam payback.


There we go. Yeah. They're me in the grocery store. Are you friends with these guys anymore. Yeah.


Yeah, yeah, yeah. Greg Greg Campbell is the other emcee. He's a great rapper. What's he doing now.


He is in Ottawa and he's he's actually killing it as a real estate agent up there. And he's doing a great job.


He really is killing it.


Like I mean, this is he's so Mr. Big Stuff. He called himself after. He's an incredible rapper, actually.


Does he call himself Mr. Big Stuff? When you selling houses? You should, man, it's a good idea. Show up with a clock.


And, you know, he still has. I'd like you to meet Greg someday. OK, you still got like an incredible energy about him and I feel like in a lot of ways, like.


I like I learned a lot from him, we were kids, you know, we met in high school, we were we were skateboarders and he was the other skateboarder.


My squeeze a couple of years younger than me, like he's like and when we were like when I was 17 and he was 15, we went to New York and made a bit of goofy records.




And he's got there and there we are. That's Greg on the right. And that's my Jordy Ferguson, who I've been Tuktoyaktuk. He was our deejay in the middle. And but Greg on the right and the glasses. Where are you? Hilarious.


That's me on the left side of you that you see. It says, see your face.


Look at me. I barely see it says Bones on my hat.


That's because that's from Powell Peralta Skateboards. I just. But I was Bones. M.C. Bones because I was skinny bones rock the microphone. I'm like a king on the throne. Only thing is I stand alone and I'm Sanjo.


I do. I still get it. This was our pizza commercial. We did we did a pizza a lot. We did a local pizza commercial. You can play. Amazing.


Yeah, I know. What's the pizza?


Is the pizza company still around the pizzas to us for a grocery store chain called Loeb? Like your plan, you can play this video. Can you play that when you play with the music we wrapped in it?


Yeah. Check this up one time with the cool food and don't be a cool dude. Used to be it was not up.


You did a pizza commercial as a rapper, so let me be nineteen. Did that kid really need glasses or was that a prop.


I don't think that was me. That kid right there where the other one right there was like, no, no Greg needed glasses. Yeah, OK.


Those were real. But yeah, I really distrust people with fake.


Keep it real man. We keep it real organized when we keep right.


If you found someone who's wearing fake glasses, they're wearing glasses. But they weren't prescription.


Oh yeah. Wouldn't you get a little uneasy.


They're trying to be like John Lennon or something or. I don't know why I would get uneasy. Yeah.


Why I, I require glasses now for reading. Oh, that started three or four years ago, and I know how it started. How old are you? I am.


Yes, 30, no, 12 and 49. Wow, you look great, you know. Well, you do. That's very nice of you. Everyone on line tells me I look old looking up and reading, look up and he looks and if I was 20, I would say that shit to this kind of old as fuck.


But as an actual person that's near your age, I think you look great. Yeah. Thank you.


You look great, too. Thank you very much. But how do we get to this? Well, we were talking about right before the well, who was the guy with the glasses? Greg had glasses on. And so. So I have glasses now. I wore glasses only for reading my phone. And I know how I know how I got I know why my glasses went my eyes went bad. Why. And I actually said this the other day in your show, you said, make it bigger for my old eyes.


He said, right.


I was like, I know how that's what happened to me. Yeah. You got old. I thought, you going to tell me about something important, like like a chemical exposure or something?


I know how it went bad. No, I just got old. I do have a thing, OK? It's a real thing.


It's what is when you wake up in the morning and it's still dark, don't look at your phone until you've turned the lights on. And that fixes everything. No, that's when you damage your eyes, looking at your phone in the dark. I felt them break, I felt my eyes break.


They're lifting weights, maybe oxalis. And now it's in the dark and the bright, the bright light of the pushiness, eyes that are scared of matches.


I think it's I think it's when you look at the phone in the dark is what makes it makes it go. Imagine if you looked at difficult, like the eyes are so much different than a lot of parts of your body because like if you live difficult things with your legs, you get bigger legs. But if you look at too much shit with your eyes, they break.


Yeah. Yes, right.


You know, they so do not talk to basically. That's true. That's what I'm saying.


Like legitimate. No, first of all, they're going to break no matter what. Right. And part of it is a pair. Your legs break down eventually as you get there. Already broken. Yeah.


But I think it's also like there's a thing about looking at something that's always a certain distance from you on a regular basis over and over and over again. I don't think we're supposed to do that. That's what I'm saying.


Yeah, I think especially in the dark. But when you wake up in the morning, it's dark and there's a bright thing.


It I believe it accentuates the speed at which it's not good for your eyes because it's that your eyes are exposed in photography. You've exposed for the darkness.


Your irises are at a certain point, and then all of a sudden you hit it with this bright light. That's what I felt at break. I remember the day it went out of focus. I was in the morning. I was looking at my phone, OK?


And it was I don't like to be overly optimistic about some shit that I barely understand, but I think that super smart dudes are really on the ball when it comes to like vision and therapies for vision deterioration. I had a guy, Andrew Duberman, who works on that specifically, and he was talking about they're going to be able to put injections into people's eyes and then I'm absolutely butchering this, but then do something with virtual reality that actually improves the way your your vision is.


I remember seeing oh, I don't like the way so they can word it, but they can they can bring our without the laser eye surgery. I haven't had that. Oh.


Scientists have reversed Age-Related blindness by deliberately infecting the eyes of the virus. This is exactly what Huberman was talking about.


A small and this is from 2017 and preliminary clinical trial has found that injecting a common cold like virus in the eyes of age related macular degeneration patients, one of the leading causes of blindness in the US, it can halt and even reverse the progression of the disease.


So it could reverse.


Wow. So these these people are they're way smarter than you and I, Tom. They're different kind of humans. Yeah.


They're out there trying to fix problems with cancer and age and telomere length and mental deterioration and all the things that plague all of us.


They're out there working on it while we're talking shit. We're just here talking shit.


And you're bringing attention to it, Joe. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, absolutely.


It's it's but I mean like seriously like yeah that's, that's, that would be I would get that my friend. I would get that, I would get that injection because I hate, I can't stand. That's blurry when I look at my phone. So annoying. Is it blurry when you look at your face.


Oh yeah for sure. Oh really. Yeah. OK, good. I feel better. Yeah. Like if I look at my phone like I can read it.


Right. I heard you say that on the phone but it's not perfect. I heard you say that on the show the other day and I actually felt like.


If I put glasses on, it looks great. I was like, oh, good. I was like, oh, good. Like me. Yes, I put these pictures on glasses, like, I should go get my glasses out of the van. I can see and put a camera by the van.


I'll show you the events here. I'm having fun of my I can't. This is first of all, thank you, Joe.


Thank you. Thank you for having me. My pleasure, brother. And thank you for, like, legitimately inspiring me. That's not bullshit. Your show was one of the first things that I ever did where I thought, oh, my God, you could do this on your own.


When when I went to your house and you had these wires going through your living room and then you had a server room and me and Red Van were like, holy shit, dude, it was bradbourn part of what got me interested in doing a podcast was going to your spot, you know.


Thank you for the inspiration my friend, but I appreciate it.


We're, I think we're all in this together man. But you no doubt without, you know, without any question, you helped me a lot because you gave me a thought that I didn't really have before, that some guy could be so ahead of the curve that I mean, you were doing this in like 2000.


And I'm like, what for?


What were you doing? What you you have given me the inspiration of saying, oh, shit, it actually could work.


It works. It does work. Joe fucking did it. Yeah.


But I got the idea a lot of it was from you, the rest of it was from Opie and Anthony.


You know, I think you're you're, you're inspiring so many people because the thing is that's the hardest part about being creative or being an artist or whatever you want to call it, a comedian, a writer, a musician, all these things.


Right. You dream something.




The idea of not quitting, right, that's like really the thing, because everybody kind of sort of second guesses himself and says, OK, I was maybe I shouldn't just be doing this, you know, and and I'm mentally ill.


Tom Green. I don't let things go. Yeah, it's not as beautiful, though, man, because it's great to see.


I mean, here we are in, first of all, the UFO studio, which I love. And I wanted to ask you some questions about it. OK, if.


What is the inspiration for this incredible Chinese restaurants, no disrespect, oh, love Chinese restaurants. Oh, wow.


I didn't I actually didn't even notice that that that until now. I'm joking. I hope people don't get mad at me for that.


No, they love Chinese restaurants. Feel like that's not negative. No, no. Honestly, it's not it's not that I was this was the whole idea behind it.


We Matt Alvarez, who's a guy who built it, and I we're we're thinking of like what to do with the space.


There was a circular space like this. The shape of the space is already there. And I was like Dobbie kind of cool to have a podcast in there. And then we found out that they have the sound panels that look like this and you can make them in different designs. You can also choose what designs again, like, oh, those would be kind of dope as like things on the wall.


And we just put it together and he did it all within five or six weeks of the time we decided we're going to move here.


So it happened so quick.


So what he's done, you know, with all this design and everything is we just ran with it, you know, wasn't it wasn't anything that was thought out.


When people like God, it's weird and they're like, yeah, I get it. Yeah, it's weird. Yeah, I don't know, I like it, but this is not the end.


This is what I needed to get in here. This is like think of this is the spaceship that takes us from the L.A. podcast studio to the Texas podcast to the Texas podcast studio is under construction currently. Yeah.


So when all that's this is our question. This is not the Texas podcast studio. We're in a spaceship.


We've traveled from one podcast, Studio three, this spaceship into the next. Oh, so this time capsule, this is not the ultimate destination. We're not in the studio.


No. Oh, this is a spaceship leading us from one studio to the next.


Thought I was in the studio. So there's a new studio coming to studio. When's that going to be?


When Odin blesses us with his praise. You have to wait. But no one's bringing back Oden. Imagine if you wanted to you know what? That Greek gods like. Let's just go back to the classics, guys.


Thor Athena. Yeah. Come on.


Let me ask you a question. If this is the spaceship and the new studio, is it going to be enclosed? Environment like this is kind of really interesting to me. I like it better.


Yes. Really. Now that I'm sitting here. Before I might have said, you know, well, you know, he's still fucking rogue and he could have as much space as he wants, but you could put himself in a big giant thing, Colosseum kind of place with background, deep, deep background you could have like.


But the thing is like no, because I always think about depth and photography. I think about depth. But then when you're as far as the experience, when you're in an intimate conversation with one person for an hour, you're sitting there going like, oh, we're going to talk to each other for an hour.


It's kind of nice feeling like there's not people back far in the distance, you know, it's kind of cutting. It creates an interesting environment like just acoustically. It's really cool acoustically.


That's nice. That's what I have to say, that we are where there's less space, which makes us somehow or another more intimate with the same amount of distance.


Always it's going to be an enclosed space or is it going to be a larger it's going to be a both would be good, by the way.


But the difference is kind of split the difference, I think, between this one, the old one. But just be more normal, I think less distracting.


You know, this is awesome. I mean, I like it, too, but I don't know if it's necessarily perfect. It's just fun. It's fun to be able to make look, I'm not a big designer, but it's fun to just do different shit. It'd be fun to have a green screen behind me and be in space every day like different galaxies floating behind me, like we could do a lot of shit.


So what is that?


That you think that it is? That it is.


And people are we drive ourselves to kind of create this vision we have in our mind, you know, like you think I do have a vision in your mind.


Oh, this is not even the end of the vision. This is this is this is the beginning of the new vision. Right. This is this is not even the studio. I thought it was in this new spaceship. This is just a spaceship.


This is the first time I was hearing this because the first time I've ever said it. Because the first time I thought of it, yeah, there is no other studio. This is the next studio that's taking us to the next studio. There is going to be another studio. Oh, yeah. This is really is a spaceship. Like, if you could look at it, that would be a metaphor, right? Is that a metaphor?


Technically now and listen, I won't I'm not going to ask any more questions about the new studio because I wanted to do. Well, I want to be a Frenchman.


I wanted to I want to do a bunch of different things, but I do want to do something where it's a room that's 100 percent green screen. And I want to figure out like what we have to do to be in space.


I want to do a conversation in space. Yeah.


So one of the rooms I want to do I want to do like wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Circular green screen. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Can you start that again? Yeah, yeah, you want to do DeWinter in space? Yeah. Do a room where say, like you and I, Tom Green, Joe Rogan, sitting at a bar table, a circular bar table.


You want to have like all that? I would just hang in talking to Joe, OK, just two microphones and be very intimate behind us all. Green screen in space, OK.


So when you see the podcast, it's just us in space.


So that's what I love that. Is that really what what's going.


The problem would be you wouldn't see that it's in space. You just see green. Right. Would that be weird? We can do that. Well, what I'm saying we do the right thing I told you about.


We could do what you're saying. Yeah. It's not green.


No, no, no, no, no, no. Would it be actually there? No, I think I just I think I sort of projected around you. I think I think I thought of an idea.


Is that better? Oh yeah. It's better. Cheaper, but it's better. Oh, just paint this room green.


You could just spray paint this room green. Yeah, you could do that. So you could have it like green. So you can do that. But also you have the intimacy of the like Anthony Cumia from Opie and Anthony.


His whole thing is green screen. Right. He does like green. You didn't go with me. He has a setup where if you go to his channel, go to go to see if it's a clip of him, like it looks like he's like in front of a window that overlooks, like, this spectacular.


Yeah. It's just it's just a green screen.


Wow. Yeah, it's indoors. Yeah. Yeah. What's up, Anthony? How's it going?


Those guys from Opie and Anthony went and Jim Norton when those guys have you on the podcast or the radio show, rather I say podcast because it really was the first podcast. Yeah, I think Opie and Anthony was the first podcast. Yeah.


Because it was sort of structuralists boss. They split up. They did split up.


Unfortunately they needed a mediator. There is. So that's all green screen behind him.


Maybe you think they'll ever get back together. Fuck it would be amazing.


Listen, sometimes people when they were together for long periods of time, they just get on each other's nerves. Yeah. Hate each other.


But what they like every band, each other. One hundred percent.


What they had when those guys were together, when everything was rocking and rolling. I mean, it was a great fucking show.


It was a great show for comics because we would come in and they they taught me how to be just they taught me how to just hang like on a radio show where you didn't have to think like, oh, my God, this is like this is really structured program.


There was no structure. It was Ari Saffir and Bill Burr and Patrice O'Neal and Rich Vos and fuck, it was fucking chaos. It was so fun. It was so ridiculous.


And we would look forward to it.


Like I remember I'd smoke a joint and then drink coffee or we would take pot lollipops or something, and we would be on our way to Opie and Anthony, like Ari and I, and it would be, you know, fucking six o'clock in the morning.


We exhausted his show last night. We were so pumped to get there because we knew maybe Colin Quinn was going to come by.


All these different comics are going to be there. And it was just the hang. It was just to hang. Yeah. Everybody was just laughing and goofing on each other.


And it was, you know, sometimes you'd have four or five comics in the room.


And there's so many people that were obviously in America and the world who remember where they were when at that time listening. They were listening. All the listeners listening to that.


You know, there was some moments that were the most one of the craziest things I've ever seen in my life happened on that show where they had an eggnog drinking contest. And this dude.


Paul from Tennessee, Pat Pat from Wenatchee, Pat from Moonachie, is a dude who won their eggnog drinking contest and then vomited in another man's mouth who was leaning over a garbage can.


Surrounded by comics, Burr Ari Shiftier me, Opie Anthony, a bunch of staff threw up in this dude's mouth.


The Yeah, Pat Duffy, he leaned over a garbage can and opened his mouth like this.


Look at this. So he's leaning over this garbage. He's got his neck over this. And this other guy, Pat, who's behind him is at the end of the line.


He's probably done. How many shots do you think he did? Jamie, do you remember? I had close to 20 ish, maybe more. I don't know.


I had a chance. I had a night like this once at the Rivoli Theater in Toronto, actually.


But he keeps downing these shots of eggnog and he also has diabetes. So he really has to throw it up. Like you really can't keep it in his body because it's so much sugar, it might kill him.


This is a crazy scene. Man, what year is this?


But what. Oh, oh, my God. We're early 2000s. So when you look at this, where do you.


I'm I don't know. I mean, there somewhere like, oh, OK, OK. That might be me filming right there.


I mean, I think that is me. OK, there we go. That's me on the mike film filming.


It was just the nineties were weird to look at. Everybody has a flip phone.


I have a flip phone and watch him throw up in this dude's bounce.


Right. Look at that. Oh ok. Hello. OK, wow. That's one of the crazy things that keeps going. Dude, it's cartoonish. It keeps going.


What was what was he eating that day. Eggnog, bro.


You're not listening. Look, look, look, look. I've seen this. I think he's got more. He's got more. He's got another one. It's like oh looks like the meaning of life. The final scene of the meaning of life. I think he's got one more.


It's like, oh my preposterous, preposterous amounts of eggnog. Wow. In this guy's mouth it was the end. Look, the splat. It's the Dexter scene. This is Dexter. Look at the ground. It's covered in plastic.


Everyone knew there's going to be throw up. This is a radio show.


Do you understand how crazy this is? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The video only came from cell phones. There was no show like on video. This is how bonkers radio was back then.


And so those guys gave a chance to guys like Ari and me and Joey Diaz and all those guys.




Who out of that group that, you know, we're we're doing those radio shows early in the morning.


And you would you would do that show and you would go, why can't we do this? And that's that was a seed to sow between you and them.


And then the fact that Adam Carolla went right from radio, he went to doing his own podcast and a bunch of other people did the same thing. I was like, OK. It's a. I mean, it's I mean, look, Charlie just got up, by the way, that's a beautiful thing. I'd like to say chopper, bro. First of all, Joe, thank you.


And what's up to Opie and Anthony s and and Charlie just woke up.


So let me just get Charlie.


Charlie, what are you doing? Maybe you can come up here, say, hi, this is never going to work. People always want to bring dogs in the park. Guys, you watch my dog, you want to podcast at least five seconds gnarliest.


Celle Sure. She's Chele definitely won't interfere with the conversation a while.


Ignore her for a second. OK. We'll talk about Marshall, my ignore Marshall, you may Rogan, yes, his name, why saying ignore.


Well, just because you thought she was going to interrupt the conversation. Joking. Just joking. So she she's she won't she she's she's a sweet little dog isn't she. She's very sweet energy.


Well she's very calm, which means she's loved like look look at the way she's embracing you. Yeah. That's a love dog. I do love her. She can tell. Look how she leans into a man. When when Marshall when you pet him, he leans into your leg.


Yeah. Like it's the sweetest thing. It's like he's he's trying to stay in contact with you.


Yeah. So I mean, I've had I had two Siberian Huskies for 15 years before Charlie and but this is new relationship.


You know, you're seven months old, Charlie. You're seven months.


You know what's fucked up, man? It's like you could look at things almost in two different. You could be a reductionist person.


You could say like, well, you know, the weird thing about dogs is it's really what mankind has done to wolves, like they've taken them, subjugated them, and then fucking genetically mutated them to be something that sits in your lap, that relies on you to stay alive.


Like, man, no, but yeah, but you can't fix that. And dogs are real and the real right now. And you can have a dog like Charlie.


Yeah, well, I think about that because like we're out there and the coyotes are out there and like, dude, I really am living out in the middle of the woods. It's really kind of crazy. Like like for real. Like that's actually what we've been doing for the last six weeks. And it's ridiculous, but it's really fun and I'm loving it and Charlie's loving it, too.


Charlie's a dog. Go for a walk in the woods every day. She's so sweet and she's having a good time.


She gets crazy. She gets a little crazy. She gets her Zumiez. Oh yeah.


I love when they do that nuts and especially at her age. Right. It can get frustrating.


Well, you got to run with her or do something with her. Throw a ball to her. Yeah.


No, she and she'll instigate all that stuff. So, so yeah. So you know, I do want to, I do want to. It's a worry.


I worry about her. I worry. I'm sure you love her. We're out in the middle of nowhere so.


Yeah, she's got a GPS tracker on her collar.


Yeah I, I put tape over my phone number on the dog tag before I came to the show, but I could move my personal cell phone numbers on there.


You don't want to get them dick pics. I just didn't want didn't want it up on the thing so I thought about that.


Yeah. If you did have it up, how many dick pics do you think you get?


OK, well, let's take the tape off for a second. I'll get my cell phone number. Let's see.


I love dogs, but it is crazy what we did. The wolf. Yeah, it's crazy. Did we do it or did they. They saw an opportunity. They saw a campfire. They saw a bunch of fresh cooked meat. Delicious. They go go in. Be cute. Mm hmm.


Someone tells me this is the same argument that predatory women use when they steal men's money and divorce them. Like when a hot lady marries an old billionaire. Yeah, same sort of logic.


Well, do we really do it to them or do they do it to themselves? Did they come close to the campfire? Yeah.


Well, that they want to love. I think I think that I think that's what it is with dogs. So they just evolved from that. Right.


And I think they for sure did for a while. They were close to us.


And then once we started capturing them and keeping them in our houses and shit, the ones that survived, the ones with the most obedient, the ones that were the most compliant, the ones that didn't give us a hard time, the ones that, you know, just wanted love. I think about that sometimes when I'm hanging out with my dog. He's the sweetest thing in the world. I love him to death. Like we have these little hug sessions in the morning.


Every morning when I wake up, I go, Hello, sir.


Hello, sir. It's like, oh, he's like so excited to see you.


He's such a sweetheart of a dog. But I'm like, he couldn't survive on his own.


Like he's he's this fluffy thing. That's amazing. He's full of love, like a love sponge.


But that's not an animal that survives as an animal. It's he's essentially a carnivore. I'm feeding him food. I have to feed him. Yeah.


But as long as I do that, he'll stay this sort of sweet, compliant, well fed thing. Yeah, but like wild dogs kill people.


Some some lady got killed by a wild dog like a week ago. There was some some article I saw.


I think it was a lady or maybe was an old man but someone got killed.


Do you remember Jamie Chardy. Somebody got killed by a wild dog. Oh, uh, girl.


Today, today only. Look, there's a man killed by a pack of wild dogs, a Florida man killed by a pack of wild dogs. Today, today.


Why is it always in Florida? These things happen because this is the best spot on Earth. It's it's aliens. Amusement park aliens have created the man.


I wonder if it's in the air. Yeah.


Imagine if that's what they prove. Like, you go you go to Florida. Yeah. Get in there, buddy. I don't want to like imagine if you go I want. Make a fool of myself here. They proved that if you go to Florida, your IQ drops three percent and your inability to say no to math goes up by a thousand.


You can drink too much sometimes. But I mean, Joe, it's an honor to be here having coffee with you. It's an honor to have you.


I'm for real, legitimately.


I've said it before and I'll say it again. You are one of the reasons why I do this. So thank you very much. I mean, when you when you were doing that show out of your house and you had me over as guests and I remember sitting at your table with Tom Green did.


This is amazing. You made your own thing. You made your own show and you were doing a Call-In talk show with a dad. Listen, I appreciate it, Joe.


You don't have to say it. I that's it's just. It's true.


It's so cool, man. Just being here. And, you know, this whiskey is pretty damn really good.


Like, really good. Pretty damn good, especially when you're drunk.


This is still Austin straight bourbon whiskey.


When you're drunk, it's like it's not. Oh my God. It's not clear what actually is good.


What was the first what was the first drink you had when you were a kid, like when you're a kid?


Well, I remember when you start drinking. When do you start drinking? I remember I. How old were you when you started drinking high school kids.


High school. Yeah. Yeah. I remember when I first got really fucked up on Jack Daniels to the point where I couldn't smell Jack Daniels for like years.


I have that experience with wild turkey, wild turkey and now I have that.


Yeah, but I threw up in a cab and I was like 15 years old.


Yeah, yeah. I remember that same same fifteen, you know, I said, listen, I had a wild turkey was my first bourbon experience and it did not end well.


But yeah, wild turkey will fuck you up.


Right. That stuff is seriously potent, isn't it?


Isn't it like a higher percentage of alcohol? It's like old moonshine.


What happened was my friend Phil and I, who was my, you know, best friend growing up, we went we went on a camping trip one time. We this is what kids in Canada do when they're in there and they're not skateboarding. Hey, let's go take a walk about. We brought a canoe and we said, let's paddle out of that island out.


And, you know, we'll bring some beer, we'll bring some whiskey and light a fire. We'll hang out and it'll be fun. Anyways, we went out. I flip the canoe on the way. The beer sunk to the bottom of the lake. All we had was a bottle of wild turkey. So we didn't have the beer. It was not a good thing. But damn, dude.


Yeah, Canadian life is a different life. That's why people are nicer up there. You guys have more weather. If you deal with more shit, you have to like, band together more.


Yeah, you know, I'm saying yeah, it's kind of this the winters kind of kept it down a little bit.


As a country like this, there's a certain reality that Canada has that the rest of North America doesn't have is like in the winter you can get real crazy.


Oh, yeah. And so, like what I mean, you were saying ice fishing, right? Yeah, you did ice fishing. I didn't do ice fishing, but like. That it was just walking to school, was going ice fishing. Yeah, like your four and by the way, you know, was the 70s, right? I was born in 1971. So I was I was walking to school as a five year old in nineteen seventy six.


You know, it's like, oh God, Winterreise.


I had on Vimal wolves are out there. Yeah. So Jesus Christ. Tom Green got eaten by a wolf. Yeah.


And look at Charlie. Just went to sleep, went right back to sleep and she's such a sweetie. She's definitely a sweetie pie. She's so loved. You could tell the way she leans into you.


That's a loved and it's a unique situation because of the pandemic and the fact that I I've got you know, we're we're all isolating and nothing else to do other than go with my van with this new dog.


And she was rescued by a rescue from they're called they're called thrive in San Diego. And this is what they do. They find dogs in the Caribbean and and Mexico or this is she was born in the Bahamas. And they bring them over so much dope.


And I just I just, you know. Well, you got a good one, man.


It's kind of like it's kind of weird because, like, I just kind of got super lucky because it just sort of happened. Like, I knew I needed a dog because this has been a weird year. I miss having dogs. You know, I didn't have a dog.


It's also cool that she's young enough so that you can teach her the talks. Like sometimes people adopt dogs and they're grown. And when you adopt dogs, it's grown. It's more difficult road kind of train them and get them.


So she was three and a half months, went back to and lunch. She had actually been rescued by someone else and then they couldn't keep her. And I got a three and a half months, so.


But, uh, yeah, she's she's very good, very good puppy.


And I've had martial since she was like six weeks old. Yeah. So how old is Merche tonight? He's almost four oh four. OK, he's the sweetest and I've never had a golden retriever before. Yeah.


Just a different thing. Like when I see him, it's just we just have this little love session. I mean him, OK? A man dog love session, yeah, Charlie has an Instagram. Look at her pictures, Charlie, the pot cake dog Charlie is called a pot cake dog. What's that? So she's rescued from the Bahamas in the Bahamas.


They call this the street dogs that are running around the strays. They call them hotcake dogs because they go to the local people, cook them, you know, they feed them the burnt rice.


Oh, from from the that's why they're called pot cake dogs. So that's what Charlie is. She's a pot cake dog and and she's Stevo has a dog that has similar type stories.


Yes. Yes, he does. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Dogs hit the lottery, son.


You know, that's. Yeah. What's up Stevo. Shout out to Stevo. Yeah. Yeah man.


Dogs are like it's a really interesting thing because part of me knows that this is a wolf that was manipulated. Its ancestors are manipulated into this thing.


But part of me is like, yeah, but there's nothing I can do about that right now. Like he's alive right now. So he's my my snuggle buddy.


Yeah. Well, you do love Buddy, who is your buddy? And he puts his paws right there on his back and the rebels tell me I love them.


But it's it is it is strange. It's I'm not there's not a judgment. This is just an observation.