First major Thanksgiving proclamation. Other presidents have done minor ones, but this was the one that really solidified it as the holiday we know. He puts it out in 1863, which is the worst year of the Civil War. You have the two bloodiest battles of the Civil War, gettysburg and Chickamauga. Gettysburg over 50,000 Chickamauga. You're looking at about 35,000 killed, missing or wounded. And yet, amidst all that, he's not only asking the nation, but giving them a charge. To pray for those who are who are mourning, who are hurt, but also to keep holding on for a better tomorrow, to ask God for his blessing and his mercy. And it's really a reminder that we only have the life we have, the breath in our lungs we have because there's a God who loves us.

Welcome back to the Kevin Roberts show. This is a special episode.

I mean, really special.

This is the first time we have endeavored to record a Thanksgiving special. And a Thanksgiving special because we should always be grateful. You've probably heard me say once or maybe a hundred times in the couple years we've done this show, that the heart of a conservative is to be gratitude, to be grateful first. And so the best way I can do that here at Heritage is to feature my colleagues, all of whom who are friends. And so that would be a little time consuming if we had all 300 plus of us on this episode. And so this year, we've got several of my colleagues, each of whom will talk about a different aspect of why they're grateful, also a different aspect of the holiday, of thanksgiving itself, because so much of what we have lost in the United States, but we can reclaim is remembering our customs, our traditions, even as a few people who happen to be vocal want to take them away from us.

So thanks for joining.

I hope you enjoyed this episode.

Very fitting. My first guest colleague on this episode is Chris de Mouf, one of our newest members to the Heritage team, but someone who is known throughout the country and the world. He was a longtime president of American Enterprise Institute and is now the distinguished senior fellow in American Thought here at Heritage. Chris, the grand Poohba, the conservative movement. Thanks for being here.

I'm thankful to be at Heritage Foundation and thankful to be here with you to discuss Thanksgiving.

Tell us why Thanksgiving still matters.

First of all, it is America's oldest holiday, and it is many Americans, including my own favorite holiday. It goes back to very early to the 16th 17th century, early settlers in Florida. It was celebrated intermittently pretty much throughout the colonial period, and it was a harvest festival, giving thanks for nature's bounty and to God for all of his blessings, often at the end of hard times. Sometimes it was a day of feasting and festival. Sometimes it was a fasting day. It had elements of penance and charity from the very beginning. The first Thanksgiving in 1621. There are many controversies about Thanksgiving, and you and I are Virginians, and Virginians sometimes claim that Jamestown actually came a year or two earlier. But we generally think of the Pilgrims first Thanksgiving at the end of a terribly hard first winter. Half of the people who'd come over on the Mayflower were lost, but Native American tribes helped them, taught them American agriculture. They had a pretty good planting season, a terrific harvest in the fall, and they set aside three days to give thanks the survivors and even larger contingent of Indians to memorialize what they had come through.

But the big change came in the administration of George Washington in his first year of his first term. And it was the first presidential proclamation of any kind recommending to the people of America that they set aside a day of Thanksgiving for the blessings that had come to them. It was not like an American executive order issuing from the White House today. It was very modest and dutiful. And George Washington emphasized that he was doing this in response to a request from a joint resolution of Congress. So the representatives of the people had put this idea forward, and it had been controversial. Some people in the House and Senate had thought that it sounded like a European tradition. There were Thanksgivings in the old world that we were trying to put aside. Many of them thought that it was violating the separation of church and state for the President to make such a proclamation. But it had ended up passing by a fairly considerable majority. And the President, as I say, he did not order anybody to do anything. He was not stepping out and issuing an order. He was recommending that the nation pause and give thanks.

And he transformed what had been a celebration of the harvest gratitude for the bountiest harvest that had just come to thanks for the blessings of liberty that the independence of the nation and the Constitution had given to us as agents of God's will. Listen to this. He recommends that we give sincere and humble thanks for God's care and protection previous to their becoming a nation for the manifold mercies and favorable interpositions of His Providence which we experienced in the course and conclusion of the late war for the degree of tranquility, union and plenty which we have since enjoyed for the peaceable and rational manner in which we have been enabled to establish constitutions of government speaking of the States for our safety and happiness and particularly the national one now lately instituted for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed. So it is now becoming more of a political document and a national document. We are giving thanks not just for the harvest, but after 13 intense years, beginning with the Declaration, with the war, the founding of two governments, the first one a failure. The second one, we're hoping it's a success.

It's not even a year old. Washington is referring to many private blessings that he wants us to give thanks for, but he's referring to them as reflections of the peace and civility and the rule of law that our new political institutions have created. So it was a political holiday, not in a partisan sense, but in the sense of appreciating the great blessings of living in a nation that had come through such terrible times and had achieved the beginnings, at least, of a peaceful and successful nation.

And political, in the best sense of the term.

Political in the best sense of the term. It changed a little bit. John Adams, who was a little bit more of a dour character he proclaimed Thanksgiving as a day of repentance and humility.

There's this Massachusetts upbringing coming out as opposed to the Virginian, right?

That's right. So you can see the different aspects of it. And then Jefferson refused to issue a proclamation. He thought that it would be a violation of the separation of church and state. Madison felt sort of that way, and it fell out of practice until Abraham Lincoln in the fall of 63. Now we're in the midst of a terrible war, but it is also a public statement to give thanks to God for such blessings as we could see in the midst of this terrible war. Because the range of violence had been limited to the theater of war, foreign nations had not taken advantage to invade, as some of them had been thinking of. There was, in general, peace and rule of law in areas of the nation removed. So he's looking for good things, and he's looking forward to a nation that would enjoy blessings of increased freedom after the war.

If you had the opportunity for President Biden and, I mean, this is a political question, but not a partisan if you had the opportunity to give him advice on what to say in a Thanksgiving proclamation this year, in other words, accounting for all of the challenges in the country, including a toxicity in our politics, what would your advice be?

I would urge him to emphasize what I regard as the most important part of Thanksgiving, which is that it is a day of pause. It is a sort of a secular national Sabbath when we put aside our cares, even our ambitions to simply sit back, to put our individuality aside. And we are in a home. We are with a family. We are bringing in sometimes extended family from around the country, roommates, friends who perhaps are without family, engaging in acts of charity. It is a day for family, for important rituals. It's still a harvest feast when we have a big, splendid table, but everybody participates into that. It is a day completely different from other holidays and from the usual cares of our lives. So it is a time when we should just think of our blessings that have been unearned, to count those blessings and to concentrate on those and how they should lead us to rededicate ourselves to live better lives in the presidents. Modern presidents often talk about their political programs. And the nation should give thanks for all of the wonderful legislation that I've proposed to Congress. I would suggest that President Biden not do any of that, but to suggest the religious aspects of Thanksgiving, giving thanks to God, putting aside our differences, emphasizing our humanity.

And George Washington observed the first Thanksgiving by making a charitable gift. He didn't advertise it. He just did it. And I would suggest that President Biden emphasize charity, helping out others, helping out the less fortunate, which are all political acts, in that we're all doing it as individuals in our homes, but we're doing it when millions and millions of other small platoons all around our country, we're all doing it as Americans at the same time. So it is a time of private thanks and gratitude, but it is also one of national celebration. And I would ask the president to emphasize that.

Truly great advice for him or for any president, but also some good advice for the rest of us as we prepare whatever our family customs are going to be. One final question for you, Chris. What are you most grateful for this Thanksgiving season?

They're personal aspects of gratitude, Kevin. I'm one of your oldsters around here, and I have been blessed by excellent health. And it's something that I work on. But mostly it's something that was completely unmerited and just given to me. And I'm thankful that I can be active. I can be a somewhat productive citizen at my age. I'm grateful for the strength of our institutions because my life at Heritage in the years before that have been devoted to the study and understanding of America's political institutions the Constitution, the rule of law, sound economic policies. And as you know, those of us who study these things are often overwhelmed by all the mistakes we're making, how far we are falling short on Thanksgiving. What I think we should all think about is and be grateful for is the tremendous strengths that have gotten Americans through so many terrible periods and that are going to get us through the periods of serious travail that we're in today.

We'll need to remember those. So thanks for joining me, Chris Dmouth. And I will say that one of the things I'm grateful for, both professionally and personally is that in addition to our friendship, I now get to call you a colleague. Thanks for joining me.

Thank you, President. Thank you very much, Mr. President.

That's fine once, but Kevin's fine. Chris. Have a great Thanksgiving.

Thank you.

Delano Squires research Fellow, DeVos Center great friend, colleague, someone whose hiring I remain so grateful for. It kind of happened around this show.

It did.

Which is just awesome. And providential and what a year or so in, things are still going well. Thanks for joining me. We're going to talk about a lot of things family, Thanksgiving, custom. Let's start with national identity. This is a noble country in spite of all of its warts. What would you say as an immigrant yourself, a son of immigrants who's grateful for this country but well aware of its warts, from the political left to the political right? What's the advice you have for Americans who are aware of those warts to still be grateful about what we have?

That's a great question. I think my advice really springs from how I see family, which is you don't get to choose the one you're born into. And as you said, every family has its strengths, its weaknesses, its warts, his secrets. But I think it's unwise for a man to destroy the land that he's standing on. So I'm a person that has a deep sense of gratitude for America, partly because my parents came here over 40 years ago and it's the only home that I've ever known and it's the Lord willing, only home my children will ever know. And there's a lot to love about this country. And part of what it means to be a mature adult is to be able to see things for what they really are. A clear picture, not one that's rosy, that denies the ways in which our creeds and deeds have not always aligned, but one that understands that we are a more perfect union because we've been striving to match those two things up. So I know it can be difficult at times, but I'm a person that believes deeply in the virtue of gratitude, because one thing I will say is this is that much of what we're seeing in this people talk about wokeness and sort of the woke movement.

One thing that doesn't get discussed enough is the extent to which we're losing our sense of gratitude. And when I look at you or you look at me and you say, well, your sex or your race gives you a leg up, what it ultimately ends up doing is making people ungrateful for the things that they have. Because for whatever little we think we have and what more we think we should have, someone always has less and is desirous of what we have. So all of those things sort of go into how I think about a sense of gratitude and Thanksgiving for this country.

This is related, but it may seem like a little bit of a pivot, but one of the things we're trying to do in this episode is highlight customs of colleagues in their own families. Are there special customs that your family had growing up or your family now with your own kids has that you would share with the audience as a way of maybe encouraging them to rekindle some of those? I asked that question because if polls are to be trusted. And at least the trends in polls, I think, can be trusted. Americans are sort of losing touch with this kind of quasi religious element of the Thanksgiving holiday, which President Washington set out so long ago.

So I remember as a kid one of our customs that we would meet at my aunt's house every year. And at that time, at the height of it, I probably had about 2030 people in the house aunts, uncles, cousins, family, friends who would come from Brooklyn on the Bronx and drive to Queens. And we would all eat and have fun and dance. And that really was one of the most special memories I have of growing up as a kid. Now, as a young family, we're creating our own customs. I don't kill my own bird. Maybe one day if I get into hunting, I will. But just being able to spend some quiet time with the family and we're still developing some of those things. One of the things that we used to do early on in my marriage, my wife and I, we would travel to Houston because she said how much Thanksgiving meant to her parents. So we did that for a number of years. Haven't been doing it as much, obviously, since COVID but we're trying to develop more of those customs and traditions in our family so that our kids have something to hold on to and then they have something to pass on to their own children.

I think it's still possible, given the political differences in this country, which, as you said in our first conversation thread, highlight these immutable characteristics of all of us just as a political project. Or maybe it's better put as a social project for us, knowing our pluralism as a society, to actually get back to the point where there is a greater emphasis on shared national holidays, perhaps starting with Thanksgiving. And if that's the case, what can we do at our respective Thanksgiving gatherings to begin that project?

Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely on our current trajectory?

You're an honest man. You can level with me.

Delano it's hard to see that we are breaking apart in so many different ways. And I think one of the things that has made me realize is what we have, this sort of experiment in our country is not the norm. A tribalism is definitely the norm, right? Shared ethnic background, a shared sense of land, and sort of people groups situated in a particular place, that is the norm. So the fact that we've gotten as far as we have over the last 250 plus years is a testament to the resilience of the American spirit all around. But I hope that we can do that. But it's hard to have shared holidays when people start from such different perspectives on everything. And in fact, at times it feels as if one side says, this is a great thing. The other side is duty bound to say no, we must oppose it. So I hope that we can do that. But as I said, I think Thanksgiving is the notion of being grateful for what you have is one thing that I think can be sort of broadly accepted by Americans of all different types, all different backgrounds, religious views, ethnic backgrounds.

So I'm hopeful, but I don't think the trend lines are pointing in the right direction at this point.

So maybe what we can do at our Thanksgiving gatherings for those of us who are the praying sword is to pray for this. But secondly, in terms of what we can do outside the supernatural, that is to express our gratitude, to do what we try to do first here, which is to listen before we speak, which you personify, if I may say. And yet we can also be sober that the reality is not good right now but perhaps by doing those things and realizing that culture, what we do in our own homes will affect politics, that we can get there.

Yeah, and I agree. And I think more of us need to become the praying sorts because again, my faith does drive that sense of deep gratitude. I wake up every morning understanding that some people didn't make it through the night. Every holiday I get to celebrate with my family and friends I'm thankful for because I know people who lost both people younger than I am who've lost both parents. So there's so much to be thankful for in this life. And in fact, I think our bounty has helped drive this sort of sense of envy and ingratitude. Because for the person that thinks that when Starbucks runs out of their pumpkin spice flavors that this is some sort of crisis, people like that haven't spent enough nights being going to bed hungry or living in a place that doesn't have running water. Right. So I'm aware that there are people all across the globe who live those lives. And one of the things that always struck me as ironic is that sometimes, you know, missionaries go over to some remote village in Africa and one of the things that was most consistent about those experiences is that the kids in that village always have a song, they're always singing.

There's always a sense of palpable joy that you can get from them. And then you compare it to this country where kids who have every conceivable device and video game console are complaining about what they don't have and largely in part because they're listening to parents who complain about what they don't have or what somebody else got that they didn't deserve. So I do feel that one of the things that can help bring us back to that sense of unity is for a greater sense of prominence that religion and faith can play both in our personal lives and also in the public square.

Well, I'll take that as a charge from you this Thanksgiving season. Delano Squires, I remain grateful for our friendship, grateful that you're here as a colleague, and grateful for everything you do for this country.

Thank you, sir.

Thank you. Richard Stern, director of the Hermann Center. Here, you'd focus on all things fiscal budget. If this were an episode of a different purpose, we might be talking about a different topic. But the government's spending too much money. We'll leave that there. And instead, you and I are going to talk about what you're thankful for.

Absolutely.

What are you thankful for?

Honestly? And I appreciate it. Thanks for having me on here. One of the things I actually love about budget policy is if you do it right, it's about that. It's about the things you value, it's about the things that give you inspiration. It's why you do the things you do. So I'm thankful for my family, friends, those things, the people around me, the team that I have here. But I'm thankful that I get to be in a country, I get to work at an institution where we try to make sure that everyone has the ability to do what they want, to pursue the dreams they have to not just be thankful for things, but to use that as inspiration to make other people's lives better. And that gets me up in the morning.

Anything different about this year?

Well, the government's about to run out of money. Oh, right. What's different about this year?

Heritage has been saying that for a long time. Right?

Exactly right. I would say this, right? We all know this. There's a lot of pessimism. There's a surplus of pessimism in this country, and that seems to be getting worse year over year. But I will say this though, right? We have a new speaker, I would say maybe in a long time, the first kind of devoted Christian conservative speaker we've had in a long time. And I think there's a new energy in this country. Actually, in some ways, despite the pessimism, there's an increasing kind of determination energy to get back to our roots, to get back to our traditions. Frankly, I think to refine that optimism that I think drove the United States and I think drove the pilgrims to come here and found a nation that for the first time in human history, at least since ancient Israel, was devoted to God's law and not just to dictators that ignored God's law, which was most of human history. So I think we're back to that.

What needs to happen in 2024? I'll leave that open ended. So in any sector of life, in order to accelerate or maybe implement this sort of newfound optimism you have.

So I think at some level and it feels frustrating, you need people to believe it individually in their own hearts. Right. I think optimism is something that starts at the individual and that permeates through our institutions. The family, other civic institutions, but Pessimism does as well. And so I think it behooves all of us individually, as you said, to think about what we're thankful for, what our roots are, what our foundations are, what drives us, not just the thing you do day in, day out at your job, but really what motivates you. And I think if all of us focus on that, focus on what we're thankful for, what we have, what our goals are, to make the future better for ourselves, our families, our neighborhoods, I think you'll see them more that energy building, and so it's for people that lead and have platforms to use it. But at some level, I would ask everyone, right, to be inspired by that, to refine that sense of optimism. And I think the more we do that, we'll get through these times.

Switching gears a little bit, a question that I've asked all of our colleagues in this special Thanksgiving episode. Any particular customs, thanksgiving customs in your family you're looking forward to?

Yeah, so my family usually tries to get together around Thanksgiving. It's always a little difficult being a traditional Jewish family. There's a lot of people in New York and a lot of people in Illinois, and of course, an enormous amount of people in Florida.

I was going to say there has to be some of your family members in Florida, right?

So I will say it's easier, though, because over time everyone's migrated to the Florida, both because it's the Free State and low taxes, all those amazing things. But it's also where Jews tend to populate, right? So I'm looking forward to everyone getting together for that. But I will tell you, though, so maybe a little more unique for us as Jews, of course, is we view Thanksgiving as kind of part of the story of Passover. So in some ways, Passover is near the beginning of the year, thanksgiving is near the end of the year, but they're both in many ways the same thing, right? They're devoted to being thankful for our free will, for our soul, for what makes each of us individually unique. And so I think it's an important moment for my family that way, is to view Thanksgiving as that kind of end of the year bookend on recognizing the importance of that and the value of having that freedom and what you can do with it. So it's always a good time for the family to get together as well, for sure.

Nice break. One of our colleagues talked about Thanksgiving most importantly, in addition to those great things you said, being a pause, being a pause from life. And for those of us who are here in DC, I think especially for you, where you're in the middle of budget analysis, it seems like every day this year, right? I mean, that's just kind of been the policy nature of this interesting thing we call the US. House of representatives. I'm sure you're looking forward to the break. Last question. What advice would you give to anyone in the audience who wants with their head they know in their head they need to be grateful, but maybe in their heart they can't quite get there because they see a lot of things to be discouraged by. What advice do you give them this Thanksgiving?

So I think at some level it's focus on those things that inspire you, right? So I think it's easy. I think if you're prone to be thankful for things, you kind of do it naturally. I was one of those people that tended to fixate on what was wrong, what was pessimistic.

It doesn't be hard to believe, truly.

Well, you have to I know you'd.

Be one of the most hopeful people.

That's why, though, because I know what it's like to not have that. In fact, a little bit of my story is I grew up in a very liberal family, actually, and so in some ways, and I got interested in politics when I was a liberal and where I came from on that. So I'm not saying it kind of looking at the other side, but saying from my own background, it's peddling in pessimism. Right. It's an ideology that fixates on what you're not grateful for. That fixates on what's wrong with the world. It fixates on imperfections. So what I would say, right, is if you're not already prone to look at what you're thankful for, if you're not already prone to be motivated by the good things, focus on that. What is it about the world that you think is beautiful that you think just kind of organically comes together? What is it about the world where things that have guided your hand, things you could never have planned for but led you into the right place? All of us have that story. All of us have stories where there were things that we would never have expected made the difference and did in a positive way.

If you focus on that, I think it opens you up to feel all of those things that we just naturally take for granted because there's no problem, there's no crisis. It's already good if you fixate on that. I think what most people see is even in the darkest times, and I've been there as well, the vast majority of things around you are actually pretty good, and they work pretty well. And so you can ignore kind of the few problems around you and fixate on how much is good and how far you've come in your life. So that would be my advice.

What a terrific Thanksgiving reminder. Richard Stern it's a great pleasure to work with you every day. So I'm very grateful for that every single day. Thanks for taking some time out of what is a very busy week for you as you're crunching some budget numbers. Most of all, happy Thanksgiving.

Thanks. And. You do as well. Thanks so much.

You bet. Brenda Heifera, who works in our Simon Center, one of the great policy leaders at Heritage. Thanks for joining me.

It's a pleasure to be here.

Everything you do is awesome. No, truly. And as a historian who is not really able to have a lot of time to continue to do academic history, I read everything you write, and I don't have the time to do that for every scholar at Heritage. I think everyone understands that. But I love your work. It's always a sober diagnosis of revisionist history, which is terrible, how that is seeped into so many of our historic sites, especially here in the Washington, DC. Area. But it's always with an attitude of being grateful for the past, honoring it properly, telling the story honestly, but also some suggestions about how things can be improved. So thanks for your work, but tell us about the scourge of revisionist history before we get into some happier notes.

Yeah, unfortunately, it is spreading, and it's spreading very quickly of once it infiltrates one area, it is on to the next. It is always one step further ahead than we can seem to catch up to it, unfortunately. So I think a lot of people are familiar that it's certainly part of our lower education. It's certainly part of our higher education. The higher education institutions actually came first, right? If you really want to be effective, you educate the educators because they're going to go on and educate the children, of course. And so that was part of the strategy of get the higher education institutions, get the teachers, and then lower education institutions will follow. So we've seen that in many different forms, in the form of critical race theory, in the form of identity politics. And now, as you mentioned, we're seeing it at our presidential homes and museums, which I find particularly disturbing because so many people have come up to me and say, I remember when I was a little kid and I went to James Madison's home and I stood in the room in his library where he thought of the Constitution. And that was a remarkable experience for them.

It's something that touches them and makes them feel proud. To be an American and to be part of this great experiment in self government and to have that taken away from our kids and for them to be told that America is this horrible place and they are victims in this whole affair is to take away something fundamental from them. It's one a question of where is our country going? How are we undermining the principles that we're dedicated to? But also it's a question of human dignity, of telling children that they are victims has never made anyone strong or grateful or resilient. So these two things are intertwined.

So no doubt you are tracking the attacks on Thanksgiving itself as a holiday, as a custom, as sort of a quasi religious, quasi secular holiday. Are those attacks increasing? Is there any hope that maybe we can turn the corner and push back on them?

There's always hope. I would say that's my disposition and I think they are increasing as everything is. This is part of the Great Awakening, as they say. And I think in part it's a war on gratitude. That is something gratitude is much like forgiveness. Gratitude is a choice. It's not based in naivete. It's not a dismissal of things or a refusal to confront things. It's a deliberate decision to look at the bad, but then to turn to the good. And sometimes it's not easy, and it requires a great deal of strength. But I think that we're fortunate in that one of the ways you inculcate gratitude is you study history. And there's a lot in American history to be grateful for and to be proud of. And that's one of the things that when we undermine things like thanksgiving, when we undermine our history, we're undermining the virtue of gratitude.

So as people watching or listening to this think about what they're going to be doing for Thanksgiving, or if they happen to watch or listen to this after the holiday of Thanksgiving, but want to take this charge from you to be more explicitly grateful, including about our history. What would you recommend to your fellow Americans to cultivate that virtue of gratitude specifically toward the holiday of Thanksgiving? Or specifically toward our own history as a nation?

Well, I think a good place to start is to read the primary documents, right? It's all there. And there's so much of a sense in those primary founding documents that there's a continuity of America and there's a continuity of the American people and that the founders think they owe an obligation and an obligation of gratitude towards those men who fought in the revolution as Abraham Lincoln, who laid so costly a sacrifice on the altar of freedom. And they owe gratitude toward those men and women and then looking forward, they owe an obligation to posterity. And so they are merely a piece in this grand American story. And you get that sense. And then if you reflect, you realize that the gift that we've been given is what Robert Frost called the gift outright. It's something that is freely given and is so immeasurable in its significance that you can never fully repay it. And it's not meant to be repaid by a material matching. It's not that kind of gift, and it's not this greedy, ugly obligation, right? It's a gift of character. And that's why you can't repay it, because it's so significant. It forms the very person that you are.

And what that means is it lays claim to your character. And that's the obligation of gratitude.

It's a great piece of advice for all of us. Thank you, Brenda, for mentioning that. One quick final question. One of the things I try to do on the show as you know it's. What we try to do at Heritage with all of our research is not only diagnose a problem, propose some solutions, but remind especially the audience of this show that those solutions aren't just for elected officials, they're for all of us. And is there advice that you would give to members of the audience, like visiting a historic site where they live? They don't necessarily have to be in central Virginia and go to Madison's, Montpelier or Jefferson's, Monticello or Is, in addition to reading the primary documents, what's a step, a homework assignment you can give them outside their home where they may be expressing gratitude or cultivating in their fellow Americans a greater sense of love for this country.

Well, I think visiting those historic sites is a great recommendation. As you mentioned, there are these sites all over the country. The battlefields, battlefield of Gettysburg is a wonderful place, for example, to see that kind of sacrifice. It's really palpable. So the local historic sites, many of them are still doing a very good job. We sometimes lose sight of that in the national focus on places like James Madison's, Montpelier or Monticello. But I would say one piece of practical advice I could maybe offer is there's a lot of emphasis put on that we're in a loneliness epidemic right now of a lot of people are very disconnected, particularly young men, that there's a lack of friendship, there's a lack of rootedness in community. And so many of us are very fortunate that we'll go home to our families and we'll travel and be just surrounded by those families. But the harsh and sad reality is there are a lot of people who aren't that fortunate in that way. And so maybe if you know one of those people of a college student who's stranded for the holidays or someone who's not very connected in your church to invite them to come to your.

Thanksgiving, something that simple.

Something that simple.

Brenda Haferra, thanks for joining me. Thanks for everything you do for Heritage and for this country.

It's a real pleasure.

Take care.

Thank you.

Bridget Weisenberger. Great friend, colleague. I'm grateful for both of those things. You are our director for campaigns and partnerships at Heritage. Thank you for that work and quick but big and important question for you. What role do cultural institutions, which you interact with as part of your job play in sustaining gratitude generally, but also the American custom of our Thanksgiving holiday?

Yeah, I think just to start Thanksgiving itself, if you read any of the Thanksgiving proclamations, it all starts with giving thanks to God. And that's a reminder to us that gratitude is the starting place for self government in America, that it's more than mere liberties, mere rights. But there is an understanding that there is a creator to whom things are owed. And out of his generosity, we have what we have here in America. And so I think that understanding of America is essential when you're talking about religion and the role of faith to constantly remind us that that is at the core of what makes America what it is and what allows for the self government we have here.

So with that in mind, what do we owe each other as citizens? I don't mean that in like a Bernie Sanders socialist way, you know that I have to make that caveat on this show. But civically like on a human level, what do we owe each other in this society we call America?

Well, I think it's very hard to answer that question if you don't have a sense of faith in anything other than mere rights and duties. But there is a sense. So in the idea of generosity and the idea of gratitude, there's a sense of dependence. If someone is giving generously to you, you have this understanding that I am somewhat dependent on them. And it's not we're mere rational animals in an Aristotelian sense, but we're actually dependent, rational animals. And so faith constantly reminding us of that part then puts on us a responsibility and a duty towards others that is freely given. It's gift and I think it opens things up to be beautiful in a whole different way. That it's not just what I have to give you, just part of justice because part of justice in relation to God is thankfulness for everything in relation to each other, thankfulness for things given that were owed. But when you add generosity and that level, it's a whole new beautiful expression of gift and duty.

So one final question. Although I would love, as you know, to talk Aristotle for an hour or two with you, but I'm not sure everyone in the audience would appreciate that. Some definitely would. But you and I and a few of our colleagues can geek out on Aristotle another time. The question is, you know well, because among all of us at Heritage, you travel this country more certainly as much as anyone else that Americans, while they want to remain hopeful and they are at their core, grateful people, we are a grateful people. We're also very generous people. They're on the brink of despair, if not some communities actually being in despair. What piece of advice or two do you have for someone who says, bridget, I want to be there with you being grateful, but I need some sense of what's the first step to take in order to get there.

I'm a little biased. I have a lot of nieces and nephews and I think it is very hard not to be grateful and not to be hopeful because you kind of have to be when you spend time with young children and there is just something so beautiful about their laughter. It's contagious and you have to fight for it because you know you want to protect that innocence. But you have no choice but to do it. So you have to be hopeful in that sense.

So I'll take that as a lesson for a dad that around the Thanksgiving table when my kids and their friends are laughing not to have that dad moment and tell them to be quiet but to rejoice in the moment. Right.

Perhaps it's really cute when it's under three.

Yeah, it is. But to your larger point, which is it's excellent spend time around kids and that's a great reminder of why we do what we do. Thanks for everything you do. I hope you have a great Thanksgiving and it's wonderful to be at Heritage with you. Take care. Sarah Felposch, our director of house relations for Heritage action. Thanks for what you do. You've been a busy gal the last few months. But we're not going to talk about that. Instead we're going to be optimistic about the future here in DC and in the country. And instead you're from Michigan like many states but Michigan's profoundly the case with this. Cultural institutions are huge. Cultural traditions, no matter where someone's family is from, are huge. As you think about Thanksgiving, whatever it is that you're going to be doing with family and friends talk to us about the importance of culture.

Well, I think first and foremost it's unity. For know I come from a really big family in West Michigan, went to school in Holland, Michigan and so both of the areas that I grew up and then going to Hope College both had very rich cultural histories, obviously Holland and the Netherlands and then moving out to DC. And the ways that it can break down and quickly coming back to that sense of unity is really important.

So in your own family are there particular customs that while they might be particular your family, their culture that might be a good reminder for other Americans to hear.

Take everyone as they come in your family around the dinner table this Thanksgiving. That really is a message not to be pejorative, I mean to be honest and genuine. And I think in those moments for Thanksgiving, particularly for me and my family, and something that we try to practice is to really be present, be there, be really intentional with the time.

And as part of that, making sure that maybe the follow up questions or points we might make about certain things, that's a day to kind of leave them.

Maybe, maybe not. No, I don't know. Most of my family is still back in Michigan and actually I like to ask some pointed questions. But I think actually in these instances it's a good time to ask the questions because it's a time where you really do have people's attention and people are coming to the actual table wanting to engage with you. And I think that's a good time to ask the questions.

Well interesting because in my family Thanksgiving dinner we always try to have people who are stragglers, maybe they couldn't get home or whatever. And one of our guests last year at the end of Thanksgiving dinner said to my wife and me, I was raised not to talk about politics and religion, especially at the Thanksgiving table, but that's all you people discuss. That's a way of saying, and I hear you saying it too, be authentic, talk about these things, but we can be respectful and kind about them, especially with people we're sharing a dinner with.

Yeah, so you mentioned I'm from Michigan and it's a Midwest. Nice. Came out here to DC and got a little fight in me, came back home and so around the dinner table sometimes and Thanksgiving in particular, that can come out. Let's have some real conversations, and I.

Think it's well received.

So one final question for you. I think what people who may not be aware of Heritage and Heritage action ought to be grateful about your work is that you are our representative inside the US. House. And so you've been a particularly busy person this year. You have many legitimate reasons maybe to be discouraged about good policy, about politics. And yet those of us who have the privilege of working with you know, that's not how you're constituted, that in spite of those realities, that you look forward in a hopeful way to the future. When you woke up this morning, in spite of knowing what you would have to do, which is dealing with some of the House Republican things. Good guys and gals, but they have some challenges. No doubt you were grateful for waking up in the United States. What was at the top of the list as reason number one?

Reason number one, waking up this morning was actually to go home. I made the decision to go home for Thanksgiving this morning. So my family's going through a hard time right now. So that was first and foremost top of my mind this morning.

A great reminder of priorities, right. Keeping everything in perspective. So thanks for everything you're doing. Have a good time at home and happy Thanksgiving.

Thank you.

Philip Reynolds. I don't even know your title. You do something I see you down here in the Comm studio all the time. You're digital producer?

Yes, sir.

Kevin Roberts show?

Yes, sir.

All the far more important productions we do at Heritage. And I'm Chuckling, because you have tolerate me so much. Thank you. I'm grateful for the fact that you tolerate me.

I'm grateful to be here.

And I think you're grateful because I just agreed that for ten minutes we were going to geek out on American history.

Yes, sir.

Let's start. All right. I'm really grateful you want to do this. And so one of the great things about being the president of the Heritage Foundation is, of course, I can exercise my executive prerogative. I try to do so very, very infrequently, but I'm exercising it now, last segment of this special Thanksgiving episode. We're talking history. What's your favorite part of American history?

Wow, that's in the top three toughest questions I've ever been fielded. That comes no, no, it really does. I love American history. I'm particularly drawn to and this isn't really going to tie in very much with Thanksgiving, but seminal wars, westward expansion, comanche wars. I just read a book, Empire of the Summer Moon. Highly recommend.

One of the best books ever.

Incredible. I had to put it down. At times it's almost like eating really rich cake. There's so much there you almost have to pause to appreciate it. But anything in that realm. But aside from that, the Civil War has been something I've always been drawn to shout out to my grandfather. He was really in the Civil War history. And growing up, I used to watch Gettysburg with him and all these documentaries and TV shows. So it's just been something that stuck with me my whole life. And living here in Virginia now, sort of as an adopted Virginian, I suppose it's really cool getting, know, live within driving distance of some of the most important historic sites in American history, particularly ones from that era.

Yeah, you just can't live in Virginia. I was going to say a place like Virginia, but I meant Virginia, period, without just feeling the draw into history and relative to the rest of the country, the age of the institutions, the pride that Virginians rightly should have in those institutions and their history. And you were telling me off camera that you've recently gotten into Jamestown history. That's the earliest of the early for us as Americans. That clearly has a tie to Thanksgiving, but we don't even have to go there. What do you think it is about the pursuit of history that is so appealing for us in this chaotic time of the 21st century?

Yeah, there's a couple of things that really stick out to me. One is when I read I was reading some primary documents last night, some journals and some letters, and you realize that people really don't change that much. As much as times change, technology changes the way we move around and communicate. Humans really don't change at all. And there's something that's very humbling about that. We're in no way really morally evolved than our forefathers, but there's something also very encouraging about that. And you realize how accessible our forefathers are. And they thought and felt the same way that we did about a lot of things, maybe different issues at the time, but they were really the same people, and they had joys and griefs like we do in the case of Plymouth, a lot more grief and joy. Initially, I was really drawn to actually to William Bradford as a know. He wasn't initially their leader. They had another leader. John Carver was their kind of chosen leader, and he died. Bradford's wife died, and then he was elected as their leader. And I see him really as a representative of the sort of everyman sort of the everyday American, the people who hold this quiet virtue and are willing to just put their heads down and do what is right day to day, day in, day out, without hoping to never become famous for it, without hoping, never become heroes.

And those are the true heroes.

Yeah.

And that's still true about America. I don't know what percentage to ascribe to it, but most Americans don't do what they do to be famous, to be known to be seen as a hero. They do what they do because of their sense of what's right, their sense of duty, and the best sense of that, their sense of obligation. And of course, a lot of Americans, the more elites, sort of confiscate power to themselves, feel that there's a certain loss and the loss, as they put it, and you know this well because you travel so much, producing a lot of our digital content, is the loss of the American Dream. Is there something that you've read in your study of history that's a great reminder and encouragement for us in the 2020s? That the American Dream has always been something we've had to grapple for, and that never including up to this moment, is it entirely lost to anyone?

Yeah, there's a couple of things. One is PBS actually put out a really good documentary series about 20 years ago on the city of New York. And I really had never realized the hardship that so many people not only experienced, but really walked into here. People who essentially laid down their lives to work themselves to death, to live in horrible tenement housing, just for a chance to give their children a better life. And I see people are still doing that. I'm from the Tampa area of Florida, and a lot of friends of my family are Cuban. They're from Cuba. Someone I interviewed, actually, for a daily Signal mini documentary a couple of years ago. He runs a salon and he grew up in Cuba. As a child, his grandfather had one of the largest dairy plants in the country that was taken from him when the communists took over. And so to speak, with these people, and almost with tears in their eyes, them tell you that if America goes, I don't know where else to go, this is it. But then they have an optimism that we don't, because they see how bad things can be.

But they really do believe in the American Dream and are still some of the most ardent supporters of it. They're going to fight for this country harder than a lot of people who don't know what it's like to not have the things that we do have, who don't know what it's like to go through a civil war. Where you have 2% of the nation wiped out, where the Battle of Antietam in one day have almost as many casualties as the entire Revolutionary War gettysburg, where you have 50,000 Americans killed, wounded or missing, which is more than the Revolutionary War in the War of 1812 combined, all within a day or two days or three days. We look at Lincoln, who puts out the first sort of Thanksgiving, the first major Thanksgiving proclamation. Other presidents had done minor ones, but this was the one that really solidified it as the holiday we know. He puts it out in 1863, which is the worst year of the Civil War. You have the two bloodiest battles of the Civil War, gettysburg and Chickamauga. Gettysburg over 50,000 Chickamauga. You're looking at about 35,000 killed, missing or wounded. And yet, amidst all that, he's not only asking the nation, but giving them a charge.

To pray for those who are mourning, who are hurt, but also to keep holding on for a better tomorrow, to ask God for his blessing and his mercy. And it's really a reminder that we only have the life we have, the breath in our lungs we have because there's a God who loves us.

History gives us perspective, doesn't it?

It does.

So as you prepare to celebrate Thanksgiving, is there a custom in your family that you're particularly looking forward to?

So we started doing it very recently. Last year is the first time we did it again. This year, we did a little mini Thanksgiving up here for a couple of my siblings who won't be able to go home. But deep frying a turkey if you've never done it before, I'd say it's worth the risk. Please be careful. Look up some tutorial videos, don't throw Frozen Bird in the oil. But I would say it's a new one. My family's, we've kind of always been one of those families who sort of experiment with new traditions every year. So our tradition is probably not having a tradition, but I think the fried turkey is going to stick for a while.

Having fried a lot of turkeys in my life, I absolutely second that motion. Philip Reynolds, thanks for everything you do. You are often the man behind the scenes, sometimes, occasionally the man on stage. But we're really grateful for the work you do and grateful of your reminder that history allows us the perspective to be grateful today.

Thank you.

I hope you enjoyed this special Thanksgiving episode of The Kevin Roberts Show as much as I did. As you can tell, you hear me say often I have the best job in the world because of the people I work with. And you got to see and hear from a handful of them, most of all on behalf of all of us at the Heritage Foundation. Wherever you are, wherever you're from, however hopeful or not you are, we're hopeful that this episode has given you a shot in the arm. Because as we enter the concluding phase of 2023 and go into 2024. People are focused on things like the presidential election. Very important, don't get us wrong. But what's most important is what's upstream of politics and elections. And that's what we do with our own family and our own friends. Let's be sure to take good care of them at Thanksgiving and every day. Take care. God bless you. Remember, we aren't just winning, we're going to win entirely. The Kevin Roberts Show is brought to you by more than half a million members of the Heritage Foundation. The executive producer is Crystal Kate Bonham. The producer is Philip Reynolds.

Sound design by Lauren Evans, Mark Guinea and Tim Kennedy. For more information and to subscribe, please visit heritage.org.