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That's the meat eater dotcom tags for more information.

This is the Meat Eater podcast coming at you, shirtless, severely beaten, in my case, underwear, less than half a Meat Eater podcast.

You can't predict anything presented by Onex Hunt. Creators of the most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt app from the iTunes or Google Play store. Know where you stand with Onex. Janice, did you hear what did you hear what happened to Brandt's boat? No, we hadn't heard this. No. So. I'm talking to Danny, my brother, and he's our good buddy Brandt, waterfowl biologist, and Danny says, Oh yeah, Brant and Matt Carlson are out hunting and hunt moose in my boat.

And he said, you'll notice I said my vote and I said, what happened to Brandt's boat and him and Danny were fishing kolkhoz on the river. And he said they're just in the worst possible spot where there's this big tree across most of the river. And he said just rip current through their brains. Then he said he's glad he is nowhere near the tail or nowhere near the. Center console for this, but. Brands like RAF's around front of this big overhanging tree and somehow snag something and pulls out, you know, that stupid, dangerous little safety feature.

Yeah, where you pull that ripcord, you're supposed to look at your life jacket or your wrist.

Yeah, I think it's more I think it's like pepper spray. Bear spray. It's almost like I'm more scared of bear spray than bears and I'm almost more scared of those things than I am just because if it's not clipped in, then you can't run the engine.

Yeah.

So which is what I can see where the story somehow I don't understand how he somehow. Pulls that thing out. Burm. Engine stops. And he says he turns and here comes this tree branch trying to get this little thing up and back in there and shit in his boat's gone.

He said it like they had a bunch of all their gear, everything they had with them. Danny said he had time to jump clear that boat. Well, he said for a minute, he said even though it was it was filling, you could kind of control how it's floating by, how you leaned and where you put your weight.

But it was no stopping it, did he climb out onto the tree or he climbed out on the tree? You know, Danny, so the tree is like out of the water and it has a bow in it and goes under, you know, they always do this. Sure. It's like out of the water. Then it's under the water and then it's out of the water. Danny, where he hits, he's he's gets in a spot or he can get out on the tree and leap.

The area Brisset branch is hanging on. With waders on, with waders on and no, wait, hold up, he has read The Meat Eater. Guide to wilderness skills and survival, because if he had even though it hasn't been released yet, you can order now an Amazon. He'd hear a big mouthful about putting your belt on. Danny said those waiters just blew in and out. Am I right that he said he had to ditch the waders to get out of there?

So he's got to remember that he's hanging on to the tree, hanging onto the tree, by this time the boat's gone. Yeah, like gone like under the tree underwater. Underwater. It's stuck on the tree.

Still engine pinned. And they got a boogie that's. Yeah. They're going to go back and get it. Once the water goes, they try to boogie to.

It's a thing you can claim on insurance.

I asked him if he tied his wrote his name on the Booya and then, you know, he said no, this is the boogie tied to it underwater, pinned there, waiting for the water to go down and try to get their least get the boat and engine. And it's going to be. He said it didn't lose anything other than like a rod or two, he lost all of his stuff. I thought Danny said he got it all back.

No, that's where he found some of it in back alleys and whatnot, but I don't think he thought he said all they lost were like a couple of rods.

I think Brant lost three or four rods during the last ride. How far were they from the put in weight? So they just flag someone down and. Do you remember how they got out of there?

I know their way up to remember the name of the tributary that tributaries up ways Fisher's River with them quite a few times over.

I don't remember how they got out of there. Some of you said not quite. A few. A few.

And that's how those accidents go, man. Just from, like, happy fishing day. And to all sudden, it's just tear.

Yeah. He said, you know, he said it took a moment to figure out the engine just stopped, you know, and he turns.

This isn't good. So they were like already close to that snag. They just come around and he says real fast current and they're going up and also and just like the last thing in the world you want to happen.

Oh, yeah. He said you I forgot about that partisan, you could kind of run around for a minute. It was like and kind of like control where the war, you know. But he said there's no. And then he said, you know, he got off to the beach and then had to try to, you know, half help try to get Brown out of the water. And give Brant a call and console them a little bit, and it didn't scare them off Rivers, he's out.

They were out. It's a good story, though, it is. I'm glad they're both safe. We were on that river one time. This is a funny story about that. We get to the take out and we've been up. We've gone up on. And he's got my brother, Brandts doesn't my brother has another riverboat, it's got a go devil on it, but, you know, like it's like an 18 foot aluminum flat bottom with an air cooled.

It's like a it's a it's a Briggs and Stratton.

Golf or lawnmower engine, right, the power is this big, long shaft and we're going up in the dark.

We'll explain the go devil because I mean, it's. Yeah, you could run it across wet grass. It's air cooled and it's a big stainless steel shaft that goes back. They come different lengths, but they go back shorter ones.

I think this just got about a six foot shaft on it.

Yeah, roughly. But they're made so that when the bow is pushed over, say, along that shaft is at such an angle. And there's I guess what I don't know if they call it a scag to on on that shaft, but that is made so that the propeller will just bounce over, said log as it comes across it. You know, you can basically, like in the south end, run them a lot and they literally run in inches of water that sometimes closer to mud than it is water.

Yeah. And the thing about being air cooled is like anybody's ever run a normal bolt motor, it's cooled by the water. Like there's an intake that sucks up river water, lake water, ocean water and that cool water coming in, it's cycled through the engine. So you have to have some water just to cool the engine with an air cooled engine.

Don't need to worry about that.

Then use your as you're holding the tiller, you're doing holding the tiller is more like a three dimensional that the right word is the more three dimensional.

When you're holding the tiller, you're not only controlling like side by side to Access's. Yeah. Where you were. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say. You're working on two Access's. When you hold the tiller, you're working on side, side, up, down. So you're digging it in. Lifting it out. Anyhow, I remember the stakes were going up, Darkon, and it was dark, dark ish and running through and I remember Holanda that tela and hytten going through a hole that had some salmon in it, the most of the most memorable thickener to try to feel them.

Hitting that shaft, coming out like the shaft, going over the tops. But anyways, we get down after dark on. Same place, get down to that takeout and there's a dude down there pretending to be the world's dumbest tourist. Boy, golly, you can fish in hot dogs and their holy smokes. Let me see one of them dogs, right? Mm hmm. And we're just like, you know, entertaining them in the museum after point, he opens up his jacket and pulls it out and it's a badge.

OK, it was the award. Yeah. Let's see your licenses. No shit. Yeah. Yeah, Bieler, you think that's cool? Look at this bald eagle eye shot, you know, or whatever. I don't know.

Yeah, I thought that was some shrewd game warden in Alaska.

They don't they know it's troopers. So so like most days, you got cops like regular, you know, state police, county sheriff. Various municipal agencies, counties and Alaska's like troopers, state troopers, there are state troopers who specialize in like a wildlife division, but their troopers, they're kind of they can do whatever. I mean, any game warden can kind of like, you know, any game warden can make an arrest for drugs or whatever or assist in all that kind of stuff.

But, yeah, in Alaska, it's like troopers. There's not the the enforcement arm isn't part of the Fish and Game agency.

The enforcement arm is part of the state police agency. Do as a trooper.

Youth Duck opens. For us Saturday. Mm hmm. I will be taking my kid was shot a bunch of skeet last weekend. Take them out for Doux. We put our blind out tomorrow. I plan on it being very low pressure now, he was telling me about how his arm was sore and a little bit bruised up from all the skeet shooting he did.

But I think he was being very careful to not, like, overemphasize it or spend too much time on it because he doesn't want get downgraded back to the 14.

Yeah, that would just be like, yeah, well, you know, maybe we don't have to go yet. Like, he's not letting it get in the way. He's like, even though my arm hurts, I'm going to go shoot dogs. Yeah.

I can't wait man. I feel like the dogs aren't really acting like ducks yet. I think they're healthy. They know what hits them on a youth duck opener.

No, I don't even see them flying around. Right.

They just kind of like, oh, I saw them stacking into a cut wheat field or two days ago. Oh, he did. Got so excited.

They just feel like they're just kind of like laying around a pond right now.

Yeah. They're definitely not as active. They're like people at the beach a month from now is what it looks like.

Yeah, I'm curious. See how that goes. Finally, no quick thing to touch on. Oh, you thinks some guy sent in a picture of this? I think this made the news a little bit like this. Bear running around the collar on it and the bears, like famously, this pair is famously tame.

And apparently it's Otane that someone managed to go after the bear and put a Trump 20-20 sticker on his radio collar, really this are these whoever it is, these researchers are now trying to they're now gunning for whoever was up, like basically handling their bear.

Wow, that's crazy. Like, he lured. I don't know. I don't know how you pull that off. He lured it in with some food, put a bumper sticker on its radio collar. Oh, shit.

There's a five thousand dollar reward. Great line. Oh, yes. That's just got the picture right there that had it been like that, it had to have been some drinking going on.

Is it a crime? I harassed some wildlife, maybe I must be to put a bumper sticker on a bear. I don't know who's putting out what the state was it North Carolina?

Who's offering the reward? I don't know. I'm reading about you get another five grand if you swap it out with one of these stickers.

Yeah, I just have a feeling there is no beer anywhere. You're carrying a Biden sticker of Spencer. Real quick before we get started.

You, like you, finally published, it's come to this, the last we'll ever discuss it. OK, you finally published the Squirrel Nuts article. And you think about something this morning at the gym that they play that stupid show at the gym. Were the guys like they try to make up like full on make believe shit to argue about sports? My first day on ESPN. They fall on like a producer makes up a thing to argue about. There for 15 minutes, I can't I can never tell what they're saying because the volumes off, but I can read what's on the thing.

Subtitles apparently for 15 minutes they're arguing about does something. How important is it that some team wins the third game of the season series? And they get dressed up in suits to talk about this, which is the weirdest thing. These guys were some high. They were the fanciest ass suits to, like, argue about make believe sports stuff. And here we are.

The reason I bring this up here we are talking about squirrels biting the nuts off of squirrels that were able to pull that off T-shirts.

The difference is to you that, like, this is real animosity that we have for them. It's like they're inventing a side of the argument to argue. But this is real, though.

Oh, I'm sure they assign it like they're like you. You you act like it doesn't really matter if they win the third game, you know, and and you over there. You act like it really does matter. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, when the cameras are off, they're they're not like continuing these arguments now, like now like this in real life.

But it kind of made me feel like I should get a really nice suit and come down here in a really swanky suit and talk about stupid stuff.

Those wardrobes, I believe, are provided by, you know, if that's what they do, that you watch the credits. Yeah. And this is just me guessing, but I'm guessing that there's probably companies that are trying to get into those spots where, you know, you could provide a suit or two to the guys that do what?

Oh, that explains a lot, man, because it's always got different little outfits. Oh, yeah. There, cutie. Little Barbie dolls. Like she smiles. Yeah, that's got to be right. I never thought of that.

Let me actually feel better about it anyway. So you finally put squirrel nuts thing to rest. Me saying that. Me saying that I've always heard. The pine scrolls bite the nuts off all the squirrels, lots people have heard that in your official thing now is what they do not do that.

I'll give you credit in two places here, please. First place I'll give you credit is that this is a common belief.

I was wrong about that.

Found where it came from, where it might stem from common belief.

I had thought that everyone believed this because Steve believed it and then they had heard Steve say it on the podcast. Right.

And then he thought all they could all be traced to that. Sure.

He was telling me. Yes. Which I might do sometimes. I was wrong, though.

Yeah. We had emails from Pennsylvania, Kentucky, Wisconsin, Montana and everywhere in between saying that, oh, no, my uncle told me this. My neighbor told me this. My hunting manager told me this. So it was like a fairly common belief that this happens.

And you found reference in the old book predates. Yes, 1956 in the Singing Wilderness. This is the oldest written source that I could track down of it.

The book was inspired by Lake Superior Beauty, and it had a whole chapter. The author dedicated to Red Squirrels. It was written by Sigurd Olson.

Are you aware that I won the Sieghart F. Olson Nature Writing Award? I'm not. You didn't know that.

Now, this is good stuff, though. Yeah. So actually, when I won it, I was actually taken out.

I was. Laurel, is that a word? That is I was I was rewarded the reward award in his old stomping grounds.

I like it and I laugh. Olson Nature Writing Award.

So I saw that article. I felt betrayed.

I felt a kinship, but also betrayal. Sigrid's said that Ingrid Siegert said that this was GURPS.

He had a whole chapter dedicated to red squirrels.

He's kind of like elderly Leopold, who never got real famous, never got as famous and then isn't isn't in his time, you know, but isn't he didn't kind of like hit the mark. He didn't kind of hit the afterlife jackpot quite like Leopold Moon for sure.

Yeah. So he had a whole chapter dedicated to red squirrels. And in that chapter he said, I also know that owls like them as well as Morten's and that they can throw the fear of death into the larger gray squirrels should they invade through the convenient medium of castration.

Damrey. So that that was what he said, look, it's the oldest written source I could find, so I talked to John Karpovsky. He is the dean at the Harvard School of Environment and Natural Resources at the University of Wyoming. Prior to that, he had written three books on squirrels. He's won awards for his work on Squirrel.

Those books then won the secret Eiffel's in Nature Writing Award. I don't know about oh man, but a dude. It's written three books on squirrels. We might consider having him down.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I would consider him like the authorities. Here I was. Chrin was here. He just moved to the he went from the University of Arizona.

We're in contact with this fella. We're in contact. Right. Great. I think he'd be a good resource for a fruitful episode.

That's five like a five pack.

So I talked to him. And then I also talked to Jonathan O'Dell, who's a small game biologist for the Arizona Game and Fish Department, who happens to be a tree squirrel, grand slam holder.

That's right.

So not only is he passionate about squirrels enough to work with them in his job, but he's also what he thinks is so he also shoots them.

One of the first people to have North America squirrel slam, which is killing all eight species, eight.

That's a lie, though. You can take it up with him.

Well, know all. Hey, what about the Delmarva? Fox girl, you can't hunt the dog, maybe it's like the eight hunter little ones.

Yeah, sure, you need to fix up his language or you need you need to, like, fix up your language, because he wouldn't say that if you're the squirrel man.

OK, so I talk to those to you folks. They both said this doesn't happen. That's not a reality. They've like watched mating bouts. They've, you know, dedicated their lives in squirrels have sex 100 times.

Oh, yeah. He in the wild that John Karpovsky said that he has spent tens of thousands of hours in detailed behavioral studies watching red squirrels.

Red squirrels. Yes. Yeah. So this doesn't happen.

But so another place that I'll give you credit, Steve, is that there is like good reason for believing this, right?

Like, red squirrels are pretty feisty. And then it's also common to kill, like, impotent squirrels that are males. But what you're really seeing there is when you think you kill the squirrel ahead, it's not bitten off. Is that for part of the year when they're not doing the squirrel? Right. When they're not breeding, they'll absorb their testes, like up into I don't think you'd say their abdomen, but they absorb it up into their body and then that that SAC shrinks, OK?

So oftentimes it's only when it's cold. That's right. Oftentimes do you have some male squirrels running around that don't have visible testes. And then young of the year, squirrels don't usually develop their testes until their first birthday.

So you'll see a lot of male squirrels in the woods that appear to not have testicles. But it's not because they got bit. And you think Sigurd Olson, who.

Well, you know, it's you know, it's pretty good. I'll tell you another squirrel if you think Sieghart Olson. Shoots a grade school. Inspects its genitalium, sees it, it's missing its scroll and says to himself, there's only one thing that could explain this.

A pine squirrel. Also known as the red squirrel has eaten his testicles. I would also imagine that he was not like the source of this, right, like he had heard of his granddad, his and so on, but now we're going to put an end to that.

You know you know how it's often said you could tell you not all of it, but it is often said that Boone, Daniel Boone would hunt squirrels by barking them.

Are you familiar with this, unfamiliar in a way that I've seen squirrel calls and park shots.

It's a shot placement strategy. Oh, like shoot next to them so as not to so as not to damage the meat of the squirrel.

Yes. You get a squirrel plastered against the tree. And you hit the tree, you shoot the tree. Right where the squirrels make a contact with it so that he is concussed and he was probably doing this with a musket ball, right?

No, he would have had a rifle. He would have had a rifle. OK, you'd had a Kentucky rifle, but not a shotgun. No, but he had been shooting like a rifle, the flintlock rifle, like.

Well, the fella that. Claims to have done that with Boonen. He even says, like what river they're on and what year it was, and the boon loved squirrels, loved to hunt squirrels and would bark the squirrels. Later, historians looked and Boone wasn't even in that state that year. So it's like did the guy, you know? They mess it up or just lied about it. Yeah, was it John Filson? I don't know. Did he mess it up or was he just being like he had heard something and wanted to attribute it?

I think there's an endless amount, just bullshit.

Just I'm not saying it's bullshit, but. Right. We're kids.

We take all kinds of ball bearings, wrap up a masking tape and some of our slingshots thinking that we would create a shotgun like effect if you hit a tree near a squirrel or bird.

I think there's like an endless amount of fact checking and with stuff like Boone and Crockett and Hugh Glass and all those folks that it's just like it's hard to even start down that wormhole because you just, like, never end.

Mm hmm. Yeah. Mm hmm. I like it, though, I'm glad that we finally put some effort into that because it made some gravy, but I don't know, because I still.

When we talk about strange human behaviors. Rick Smith, the cameraman, likes to say there are seven billion people on this planet. So am I surprised that someone did that no. No, I'm like this, you tell me that somewhere at some point in time. Red squirrels never before squirrel. Well, it's not common, Jonathan.

Jonathan O'Dell, the squirrel slaveholder, did say that he's like like the squirrels get tangled up and they'll bite each other and they'll wrestle and it gets like violent. He's like they won't intentionally go for the testicles, but there's probably been instances where they get the testicles. Now, boy, that's a good time to sneak in there and kill a whole pile of you see all the going on like that and see all the time on like nature's metal and those Instagram accounts where squirrels get their nuts hung up on, like, feeders and fences and stuff.

I'm sure they'll eventually rip me off, you know, well, and then somebody commented on your Instagram post, even they said, well, I don't know, we we live in an area that used to have a lot of grey squirrels and then red squirrels moved in and all the grey squirrels disappeared, furthering that they do actually castrate them rather than just displace.

Right. It's not like every time I saw some guys like someone wagtails displays velimir, they're biting all their nuts off.

I was that guy. I wrote that.

Righty. All right. All right.

What we're doing now, we're in honor of or in celebration of the the the ninth season, our ninth season, which is a five pack episode.

There's more episodes coming up soon of or hit is out on Netflix, available for viewing now.

And so every time we launch new episodes, we get like a bunch of questions and oftentimes we get a bunch of the same questions.

Like people watching certain things percolate through the collective brain and then we this this time around, we went and solicited those questions.

And then we commissioned Spencer here. To come in and ask those questions. And to answer the questions, we have people who are very, very close who were all present for all production Sath you didn't miss any, did you, sir?

No, not last year I was there. S you now that I have my own flashing beam. Oh, when I gave Travis Barton the welder. Mm hmm. This is the first flash to be his stand he's ever worked on, he does a lot of decorative stuff. You gave my stand. He wanted to see your starting to replicate it for my flashy being.

What do you think? You know how you're how the tensioner on your adjustable part. I told him to turn that into a hand crank. So you didn't need to get out of Hecks head ranch to do it? That's a good idea. But then he thought, what if that bull has sentimental value? So he's producing a whole new Tybalt.

With a grip on it. And you'll still have the sentimental bull.

And you think it's not sentimental at all. Now I'm going to have my own Beahm and that's going to mentor me.

Yeah. What's the origin of your beam? Did you make it his own man made it.

No, my someone made my old man had it made by I don't remember who someone. Actually, might have been my buddy Rusty Fetzer, his dad might have done it. I don't remember who welded up the stand. I think it was my buddy's dad. He's growing older. You know what Travis Barton thinks that he used in the construction of that stand, but there's like a hex shaped shaft.

Yeah, he thinks that that's off an old chisel. Might be no, I don't remember who well, he also thinks it's very dirty.

Oh, it's covered in fat and blood.

He comes some mold. He commented on what he might catch from that thing.

I don't clean it.

Yeah, OK, so where were we? Oh, yeah. Are you like a happy or intimidated?

I'm getting into B reflection while I'm not intimidated yet because I still have to teach you how to do it.

But it's good because you know what? How many beers we catch? 30 or.

Yeah, that's. Daunting when you got 30 hours in the freezer, so it's nice to know you could do half of them. You know, there's a part of a mentor mentee in the sort of trajectory of a mentor mentee relationship. Mm hmm. There's sort of like a playbook of how those relationships work there comes apart in a mentor mentee relationship when the mentee me.

Yeah. Actually turns against the mentor. Boy, it's just it's just like a thing that happens. And there's that study this you can study this. Where are we at?

And that really. I thought you were going to say we're the mentee gets better and starts teaching the mentor stuff.

So he becomes like dismissive of probably like some kind of psychology about like they don't like to behold.

They don't like to feel beholden. Yeah. So then they need to get to a point where they they have like outshined or.

Yeah, there's a part of that. There is a part where we will turn against one another.

There's probably flesh in different areas of the office. Yeah. From like I said from my perspective, Seth would be like I taught him everything he knows and now he acts like he came up with it but never said the same thing.

I taught him everything he knows, but I didn't teach him everything I know.

Oh, so he's going to he's going to hold back now knowing that you're going to turn on him.

Said if you go ahead, as you say, I'll keep some real hot tips so that I won't share.

What he's going to teach me is like signature stroke. And I'm going to tell people that I made up that story. The only problem is he went you went with a different flesh. Also, I went with an ensemble. You want to see how that is. Seth, you skeptical? Seth uses the famous knacker.

Yeah, I've been here. I was reading on little comment sections about the knackering all that anymore.

It may be that maybe it's not about an ensemble made by it's made by like Dexter. Those fellows burned the beaver processing business for about a couple hundred years. Maybe they got something going on, I don't know. It the question, if you grew up in the morning, I got a question for you. You get up in the spring, the listener. This is from Yoni's brain. You didn't do any heavy partying. It's just a regular old morning.

You get yourself a cup of coffee and you got your mind set on flashing a beaver used you put on your apron. Everything's there. I'll point out that this never happens.

How many? This never, ever happens.

What's what's the length of time I take it is to knock one out.

Oh, it. Very much heavily depends on the size of a big beaver takes a shitload of time like how much time? I think I did. The last time I kept track, I did one big Beever per hour. On the board, that's like flesh and put on the board those guys in Minnesota that we're going to hang out with bad guys in Minnesota, we're going to hang out with this year. He says it's I think it says 10, 10 and 10.

Tender skin, tender flesh tend to get it on the board. 30 minutes start to finish. I didn't I don't know about this adventure has cut me out of there, but it's a dude I met in.

Tells that town. Names of towns way up in northern Minnesota where guys are trapped, a lot of beavers, Bemidji, they got the number one Ducks Unlimited College chapter, a way to help in Bemidji. I met those kids. They gave me a Ducks Unlimited College chapter hurty of Bemidji. It was I met him, he's this guy like is Joe Beevor, it's not his name is Mike. Actually, this guy's name is Joe Beever, and I want to go out there.

And one of my problems so with with speed on flashing right now is my life is dull and let me sharpen it while I'm afraid.

Yeah. Spencer, how interested do you think people are in this conversation?

Well, I think fairly. Oh, really? Yeah.

I mean, more especially since, like, stretches beyond the podcast. Right. There's videos of guys and Instagram posts.

The problem with Yoni's question is Seth never has WACHT woken up in the flesh to Beaver. I've done that before. He flushes Beever at night, if you can, Joel, if you cajole him. He likes to flash around, like around five or six o'clock, I shoot my rifles in the morning, flush the beavers in the evening.

That's how it goes. He kind of gets in the mood mid-afternoon, late afternoon. Sometimes I'm going to say I've seen him here in the office all times of the day.

Well, mostly because I'll get the beavers out in the morning, let them thall. And then by evening, they're ready to flesh out a good explanation. So that's how that works, you know. All right, let's do a Season nine question.

First question, what was the full conversation like between Jesse and J.T. arguing over keeping that tanker redfish?

Danny, we showed it, I think we did a really good job of of showing what it was that there wasn't much more to it. You know, it's kind of like, you know, usually I let him go.

But if you want to keep it, please do. He's like, yeah, I do. And J.T. stuck a knife across its gills, and that was the end of it. Yeah, I think that.

JT, he's torn, JT, Van Zandt, he's torn like he's in different directions because. He's a guide, so he wants you to have fun. He. No, he recognizes that it's a good fishery that's well managed, but he's cognizant of not being abusive of that.

And I think that that. He lets far more gold than he keeps, he's leery of keeping them, killing them and throwing them in the cooler just for the. You're doing that. You know, yeah, it's not something he promotes. Yeah, but when it's, you know, I think that he gets on board with keeping a fish.

If he knows that, it's going to be. Treated well, respectfully and consumed quickly, then I think it makes them feel better if you said what I want to do is. Get it and then freeze it and put it in my freezer and then wait a year and then throw it out because it's freezer burn. I think the just I think the jati would be very, very not cool about it.

All right, I know it wasn't JT style, but did you all consider Wade fishing when you did the episode in Rockport?

That is not not his style. You're saying it is the style. He does like to do that, and I have done that with him. It wasn't warm while we were down there. So that probably played into it, but no, he'll get out and chase him on foot. If you want to have a hell of I'll have you seen abusiveness a show, if you want to have a hell of a good day of fishing. Go put what he calls outfit.

It's like JT Van Zandt, Rockport, Texas. Yeah, I don't know if he has, like, a name of the outfit or. Does either J.T. Van Zandt, Rockport, Texas. Redfish and sea trout, I would suggest going when he says you ought to go. Because I've gone when he says I've gone, what he says is, you know, he guides all the damn time he takes, like I think he like just one month a year.

Somebody doesn't guide for you. Kind of tell you, like we've gone out when he was when he said, you know what, we will find fish.

But it's not like the best time of year. And then we went out when he said this is the time to go. And holy cow, man.

JT Van Zandt, Dotcom. That's where you can. Find them book trips, were you there when it was supposed to be good? Dude, you have never seen fish like what we saw when we were filming. That episode, I'd never seen fish like that we one time really, really film anymore, man.

We're like. Kind of like got our moles, we put some of it in, we kind of got everything we wanted to do, Don. We were heading out one day and like, the wind had switched or something. And there's like this channel here, guys. It's real flat stuff. And it's just like. Channels and flats and. You know, how do you describe it, very intercoastal. Yeah, intercoastal like estuary type water, you know, that's sandy, you know, shallow, lots of grass poking up everywhere here and there, and just little braids and channels and islands and mazelike.

I mean, you could get lost in there in a heartbeat. And that opens up into little bays and, you know, stuff that if you don't know how to get out of it and then the water drops out of the tide, boy, you could be there for the tide cycle in.

This dude knows, like, what the fish are doing, man.

And he we're done for the day and had now the wind switched and so it's blowing water like so I was like blowing water into these channels. Because if fish like to find current, the current come from a variety of ways, like tide, wind, whatever. And we get in a spot and we pull over. And it was like it was just. Every cast iron, it was every cast, but to this point, I actually had more fish than cast.

At one point I was at 11 fish in 10 cars because one of the times that has had I took the fish off and had my. Grub. In the water, in a red fish grabbed it, so that put me 11 fish, 10 cars, I've never seen anything like it, man. And then you're out there with them and you think you think like, holy cow, this place is full of fish, but I think is probably quite plausible that you go down and around a boat, not get shit either.

Oh, yeah, but he just knows, like what's going on and this little spot right here, right now, like or later in the day, this little spot.

Or they're not in this little spot, which must mean they're in this little spot and it gives you the illusion that like any moron could go in there and catch a bunch of fish right on the next episode when you were chasing the guy and the guy told you to shoot again, did it go against your beliefs?

And that he thought in that he doubted that you had great shot placement the first time, did you feel obligated to shoot again when he told you to, you know.

No, but you're like you're highly impressionable and moments like that, and so I think that same question pointed out like that, you were there, too.

So we had multiple guided trips in this episode.

So we were guided by JT Van Zandt. We were guided on that Neil Guy deal.

And the new guy idea was really kind of like we sort of, through social connections, knew a social connections, had a connection to to a ranch.

And the ranch does allow some guided hunting on there. And the guy that owns the place, they've come out to hunt. I'd prefer that one of our guides went out and accompanied you guys. Who knows what's up? The guy was totally cool, the guy was not like obstructionists at all, very knowledgeable and those no guy are famous for.

Not dying. When shot and you have really thick, thick brush, it's like. You get up high on something just like this, like eighth, I don't know how tall, just this very thick brush extends for, you know, miles and miles and miles.

And that guy was saying, you hit them wrong and they make it in their.

Because once they get into that brush, I get a sinking feeling. They they he reiterated they don't bleed well, they have a very thick hide, he just was paranoid about losing them.

And I believe you even shot the heart, a shot the top of the heart right off, and there was almost no blood in this thing, dude. It got up and ran like so he so he had already set it up. That, like, very, very knowledgeable dude. Had already set it up like, listen, man, these things get in the brush and they vanish.

Yeah, he said multiple times, shoot until you can't, you're either down or they're in the brush.

Yeah, and he said, you go and look and you don't find blood because I just like, you know, we do everything we can do. But he said it just. So when he said do that, no, I didn't I mean, I was just he was there. He was there to be helpful and was helpful and was totally cool.

He had no regrets about jumping to any no postings. Huge.

I mean, I think if you were out hunting Pronghorn or something and you can see every which way for a million miles and you're hunting an animal is famous for like not taking a hit very well, then I would have not done it.

But when you got a guy that kind of devoted his life to the whole thing and the guy says, shoot, I think you probably ought to shoot. Whether you camping in the woods or at a backyard get together, there's nothing like a roaring fire to bring you back to what matters. Dude, I was just recently thinking about my favorite one of my favorite fireside memories as I was with my friend Eric Kurn, someone named Carly, someone named Sue.

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All right, Steve, write a journal day to day to narrate the show, or does he just watch the footage and write something up after Johnny keeps a journal? Just Yenny, yeah, not that kind of sometimes. Seth, you yeah, but yeah, during every day we sort we keep a log that has just the major happenings of the day and what time that they happened. So it is sort of like a journalist. You kind of know what went down in the day.

And then if there's something that happens like an interesting conversation or a moment, let's just say and normal guy gets shot, you know, you write down that that 12 05, no guy got shot and then there was a butchering scene afterwards and so on and so forth.

And also, you take note of conversations and whatnot even. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

No, especially good ones, you know, and those are the ones that go really well. When you then we turn those notes into a document called Producer Notes, which we hand off to the editors. And it's sort of like a road map for the editors because they watch the footage. And even though you think as much as we roll that they would be able watch the footage and have a great idea of what happened. But it's just not that way.

I mean, what they see is a, you know, 10 percent of what actually happened.

And so they need sort of like a road map and an outline to understand what went down over the course of a shoot that it's always been or did it evolve to become this nuts?

I was trained to do that in terms of the video writing one the editor. So the editor gets it. We usually have a conversation, manual layout.

What's up? And Ed still has a lot of freedom to kind of find what they want to find in there, but. Then the editor will put in something called scratch video because they sort of need to create a bed for video that doesn't mess up the pacing.

So by the time I write the actual video, you will be aware of like what kind of chunk of time?

What kind of chunk of time you're filling there and then it goes like through a thing called there's a we do a process that has a rough cut and fine cut. But I'm usually like when it comes to actually, like writing the stuff, I'm usually filling in. Writing over the top of something that the editor knows ought to be addressed.

And that's how that process goes. I'm actually curious on what you use for bags that you keep meat in when you're when it's in your pack. Also, do you just put your backpack in the washing machine to get the blood out?

I'll take the blood out, no, I'll take the blood out once he's he's got the whole thing. OK, I'll take the bag one. When we take an animal apart in the field. We use breathable game bags, so when a quarter, you know, leg, the backstrap, rib, slab, boned out meat, whatever it generally goes, generally speaking, goes directly from the carcass to a bag. Unless there's a nice lesson, there's no bugs around and there's a nice place to hang it while you work.

You know, you might have a little Stobbs ticking off a tree and you could hang a quarter on there and let it do its thing.

And sometimes we'll make like a almost like a trellis. Yeah. You know, out of some fallen logs and let it out because it is nice for this reason to let some of the blood either drain off of it if it is super bloody or and even to let the meat just kind of get like that air dry crust on it, you know, before you put into the game bag.

Yeah, that's not enough. It's the wintertime. You know, there's usually always a way to do it. Sometimes you're in a place where everything's just grubby and sandy.

Like when we were on oryx this year in New Mexico that have been like, no, I mean, just dust and sand and bugs and we just got to do a breathable bag.

I used to use a type of bag. A lot of people use them. I think they're just inexpensive. Looks like cheesecloth cut Alaska game bags. There's various companies that make them, but the thing about them is that the flies can lay eggs through the fabric. And some dirt passes through them, but they're inexpensive and they're disposable. But now we use. Reuseable fly proof, breathable bags, you might think of it as sort of a very lightweight, souped up pillowcase with a drawstring on it goes into those.

And then I keep in my pack at all times.

I buy contractor bags by the box, so 50 or whatever, and I just keep a contractor bag in my bag, in the bottom, the very bottom. My backpack is always a contractor bag which can be used for setting stuff on. You can make a poncho out of it, whatever.

But when I put it in my pack I, I line my pack with the contractor bag, put the game bag in there. And then you don't want to leave it in there for, you know, days on end, but for a couple hour hike or whatever. That's what I do because I just get so sick cleaning my damn backpack all the time.

So I line it with a contractor bag. And when I get where I'm going, I promptly take the breathable game back because that's not breathable. Take the breathable game bag back out if one does get blown all over the pack, which is inevitable.

Yeah, well, and there's another system, too, which I use this year and some of my bull off the hill in Colorado and I ended up just using the stone glacier load. So which it took me a while to understand that that's literally what it's meant for, is basically their version of a game bag that but it fits perfectly in that on that load. So. Yeah, right.

And you know the actual bag. Yeah. Yeah. Like I see. Even in the beginning. Oh you said loads sell out. I said shelf. I got Rousselle. Yeah. And it basically looks like almost like a like a rolltop dry bag. It's got a rolltop on it but it's not meant to be a waterproof bag. Doesn't have tape. Seems so if blood is still coming out your meat it's meant to be able to leak out and for.

Er, to go, you know, through the family, the no fly zone, but it's like it's just the perfect shape and when you pack it full, it's plushie meat carry. It's going to be heavy. I mean, you're going to have 60 pounds of meat if you filled to the brim, maybe more.

But it just fits in that load shelf just perfectly. And you can also put the contractor bag with the game bag inside of it in that load shelf, too.

But there the load shelf itself.

Is coated in like this waterproof fabric and then the fabric that's on the the backpack's inside that faces you're back on the outside is also waterproof.

So any blood that goes towards the backpack doesn't go through. It doesn't get to your gear. It doesn't really soak in. Sometimes the edges will get some blood that happened to us in Colorado. And I think as long as you get to it like the day over the next day, all I did was had like a bowl of soapy warm water. And I found a scrub brush under the kitchen sink where we were staying. And I put ten minutes of elbow grease into it and then hit it with the hose and my pack was clean.

If it was super soaked, I guess you could take it off and run it through the through the wash. But I think the key is to get to it quickly.

Now I have also in the past, which works pretty slick, is I think what you were talking about earlier is used hydrogen peroxide to cause the the the blood to kind of foam and bubble up.

And then you just basically dump that on their scrub it, rinse it off, dump them on their, scrub it, rinse it off, and that'll help pull blood out of fabric.

Well, you know, it's interesting. We when we were cariboo hunting this year, my boy got a. One of those red legged flies. In his. Against his airdrome. It was making him nauseous. Oh, look, I just flew in there. Yeah, I was, like, affecting his balance, making him nauseous. And. Hydrogen peroxide in there. Holy shit, that didn't come out of there in a hurry. Look for them right out.

Nice.

Did he did your son know what was going on? Oh, yeah. Well, he didn't like it one bit.

You just happened to have some peroxide. Look, were at we were boning out meet back at the Bush pilot strip. And a woman there was like. I came running in with him and I was going try to get it out with water and she's like, no Powhida peroxide in there and one drop of that shit in that bag was out of there, you know, bubbled.

That's a hot tin. Had to lie to dislodge them in a hurry.

Was there panic from father and son there or just son? No, I don't say I panicked, I mean, I didn't think we were going to never get it out of there. I was eager to get it out of there, though.

Before we leave the subject, be careful with hydrogen peroxide, because I think you can leave it on fabric's too long and it could actually start to eat away.

It's hard on the stitching at your fabric.

Yeah. The thing I found, too, is people think they got their pack clean and they did. Because you lay it out in sun and you're packed up smell and then it rains. Oh yeah. So you get that clean. Yeah, that's a bad smell.

Man Yeah. Now, stoneware, she's got a there's they have a real nice tutorial video if you need to know how to clean it.

Backwell. I notice you guys are only running one clip off your Benos instead of one on each side. Damn straight. What's the reason for that?

PAUL-LOUIS Things are goofy for doing. All he does is way wrong. Explain to me better what this listeners are referring to.

OK. I use everyone, I everyone I hang out with, like it's the best one out there is there's a guy in the old days you wore your binoculars around your neck, OK?

And then came the days of the then we used to do biennials around your neck. Then you go to the drugstore and get surgical tubing. Oh, and run surgical tubing around your back and clip it into the connection point where the spinal harness or the where the neck strap is so that when you're creeping up on a deer, whatever, you're the surgical tubing keeps your Benos from bouncing around a little innovators over there at the Rinella.

Well, no, we sold the idea and we also put a Prusak.

You'd have that surgical tubing tie into a piece of paracord and there'd be like a little Prusak not around that pair quoits, so as you took layers on and off, you could cinch up and down.

We kind of stole that idea somehow. Then came the final harness. No, you forget you're forgetting the the elastic band harness that everybody ran for a long time.

A pair of suspenders. Yeah. Yeah. What was that company that first made those? I had one of those things, maybe voluntary, but yeah, I think it was electric.

But I mean, everybody made them eventually. Yeah. Leopold would have worn suspenders. Yeah. Yeah Bela's had them but yeah.

And they were better than just running the neck strap with the surgical tubing and then came.

I want to talk about the custom, but I got sick of the back before I had to buy insurance. I got sick of feeling on my neck. Hmm.

I took an old pair, neoprene waders and a very healthy chunk of neoprene and made a custom neck strap so that I had neoprene, weightier material than I stitched in my.

Nylon webbing into that, and that was comfortable. Very calm down, and then I had the surgical tubing thing, but then then came the suspenders, whatever the hell they call those, I think a lot of hunters are still stuck on that evolution.

Oh, yeah. This guy knows those guys that much prefer the suspenders.

Yeah, I saw a bunch of dudes this weekend where.

Yeah, I think they the one I think thing that they have is that there is no lead and so they are more accessible.

Right, if you're if you're hot in on a stock. Know, you know, but soon as the dust kicks up and it starts to rain or snow, men can't see anything through, you may or you go to climb over a barbed wire fence that gets hung up because they still flop around.

They do flop.

But if you're out there mixing it up and stuff, just get a harness. Yeah, it's like a little pouch. It's a little pouch. We've got like I use our camera guys like them so much they started using Bino pouches just to keep their gear in. And then they started run around, even in cities, working on other projects like MO would be in some restaurant filming no reservations or parts unknown of the Bino Hakonarson with his camera gear in it.

FCF now makes a chest rigt. Yeah, and the camera guys like those because you can fit all manner of garbage and a camera in it.

Yeah, like when Mo Phalen discovered when he goes, I can't believe I got into my whole life wasting that piece of real estate.

On my chest, yeah, like it hasn't done me any good. Now it's like my storage area. But. If you have a Bino harness and don't. Clip them in, you'll be like Yanase. John was jumping over a creek one time and his benos fell out of his Bino harness and they weren't clicked in, they weren't to know because I was using a less thought out of lower quality.

Was using a magnet kind? No, it had a clip in the front not going to mention the brand, but there was no tether option all at all.

Couldn't even tell if you wanted to. Now it's just a clip in the front and that was the other thing. So you had to have that thing clipped.

Remember those things they fill out twice to fill out and do a rage and crick and hunt bears. And we looked and looked and best we can tell there in the ocean, it was a it was a rage or man.

Yeah.

Look, I have a feeling around in the any little pools down below him.

I mean, you jump this thing almost and we're like parlement around rolling around in little pools and then you go to the next pool and feel around if you like.

What's got you in the next pool, in the next pool is just why it was just wide enough and raging enough that we took our packs off and threw them across. And then like, you know, people would kind of stand on the far side when you jumped to grab your arm and pull you over. But it was raging enough that had you just cannonball into it, you would have gone for a ride for sure, sucked them away.

So that wouldn't have happened to him had he clipped it. But why clipping one side instead of better?

That's better the way, because it hangs up the way they're clipped in on a system is coming off the shoulder straps that go up over your shoulder into those into like the adjustment section.

There's a very thin but strong piece of webbing webbing that's connected to a small clit. And there's one on each side.

And then the, you know, end that I think it's male on your shoulder strap and the female and you attach to the binoculars themselves. And so binoculars have to attachment points, the harness has to attachment points and you clip them in.

We do one for a bunch of reasons.

One I usually think of is that there's often times when you want to share your binoculars with someone and instead of unclip in to you, just unclip one, pass them over.

But that seems like something that unique to you guys. Yeah, it's how often are you out with some reason that doesn't happen?

I'm going to beat Paul Lewis's ass.

So there's two of mine are still minor. I don't care what kind of stuff they taught him in the cops. I'll take them.

There's two of mine because like. Yeah, and he said people are like, well, they must need to because there's two sides to binoculars. But I always put my Baracas on a tripod. My kids are like giving it brockers give me braggers. Weigel that clip clip.

It's only meant to keep you from losing it. But I feel like the sharing of binoculars is something that's like sort of unique to when you were with cameramen that don't have videos or when you're OK and putting them on my tripod, I just don't need to drive do too.

And when it is hanging there, I kind of I like how it hangs.

Is their preferred side, like if your left hand is right handed, right hand side, I would never do it on the left side.

And all three of you were like this. I know I used to be, but I went back to to wow. You know, it's just because I like it better. I like when they're hanging out a couple times.

You know, if you don't if you don't like, button up your harness. Yeah. You bend over. They could they can fall out. And if they're clipped on the right side, you know, they they fall out and they'd just be clipped one and do like the old swing around just when they fall out the you. Yeah. When they fall out, you know, when they fall out and there's too they just plops out and they're still hanging right there.

What's the next question.

I thought that was a silly question. But I mean I like that.

I don't mind unsnap and the two little clips and put them on my tripod. I go so far as to get rid of the other clip. I take it off the bino and I unthreatened out of the harness and put it in a place where I put all of them.

Yeah, I have a top drawer left cabinet.

I was walk towards the kitchen. All those things are sitting there.

I don't know collection. I know. I should just take them back to FGF and we work. Here is megadose set.

When you were hunting in Wyoming, what hat was Yanase wearing? I believe they must be talking about my stormy car story about this Stormy Kromer, there is no more. Oh, yeah, well, that was the one prior to that. But yeah, it's a stormy Kromer. It's a I don't know, it's a Michigan has something. Yeah, it's a Michigan. You see a lot of ranchers wearing a lot of the ranches where like the more like Woolie version, which has like much deeper earflaps, they come all the way down.

It kind of covers the nape of your neck. But yeah, I like it. It's made out of wool.

It's warm, it's got like it's got a short brim. So I don't really get in the way when I'm wanting to shoot my right going.

Man, you really like that hat? Yeah, I've had a couple, but the first one I had one time I was. I think I saw the game warden pulled over, so I pulled in behind him just to chat, see if I could work out some, you know, game location info out of him.

And he I must know I was wearing the hat and he said, you know, that next season you might want to get a new kronemer because that one ain't quite Hunter's orange anymore.

But I mean, it was five, six years old, you know, and I think his being a dyed wool fabric, you know, Colorado sun beats it up and I'll point out that I don't let it just ride around on my dashboard. I looked it up and they are out of Michigan and their tagline is the original winter cap. I'm about that. Beaver Beaver was the original winner. All right, someone says, I need to know what the detachable tripod gun mount was on the Wyoming on Spartan.

That's a good bipod mount. Very good by putting out what how it works, is that you? In the old days, you'd get the count the springs on them. Yeah, you want to mention the company's name?

They make a great product. Yeah. Harris Harris. I used to have those man you get to like all the Childhelp, although.

Those springs, they they are they are prone to some snag and they're not good for thick brush, they're very stable, though, and you'd like the state, you put it on and it's on there.

The bipod, for the most part, you know, you don't like take it on and off throughout the day.

But Spartan Bipod is like a very nice, good bipod.

And what you do is you put like this attachment on the forearm, your firearm and then you replace your front swivel stud.

Yeah. So the thing you like that little screws study that used to put your sling on, you take that out. Screw in the attachment point for the bipod, and then that plate, that attachment plate has another hole that you that accommodates your sling, then you carry in your pocket, in a holster, in your pack or whatever the bipod prongs.

And it's a magnetic fitting. It's very satisfying. Not Kozik, quick. Maybe a cry like a smidgen, like a suction with Elephunk at the end, not like that, not like, it's like, yeah, that's it. That's it. One was too moist.

Does he go with you on every hot. Yeah, well, no subdisciplines. Anything dry, open, anything, any kind of open country stuff, yeah, but if I was sitting, you know, out of hunting in a deer blind eye, I don't imagine I would total around.

Yeah. If I think there's going to be shots over two hundred yards, then I'll definitely have it with me.

They make a thing where you can put it on a tripod to. So, you know, you can be standing, you'll always have to be prone, you can clip it into a tripod and be standing or whatever. It's a very nice product.

Oh, and you can do that with any tripod head. Like they just have like a quarter 20 attachment.

The. Yeah, it's I think it's called the the Debrosse head or something. It's made for going on tripods and they make their own tripod.

Oh. But you got to have the whole head. It's just the head. It's not it's very simple, small little head that you can screw on like 20.

Hmm. To look into that. All right.

Why do you zip ties instead of electrical tape to attach your tag to an animal? I have no idea. I have no idea. I've had great luck with them. I carry zip ties in my kit until why? Until I only that was like part of the episode. That's not what happened. It was in the zip ties. We all know it is what happened. Well, yeah, like would have that happen if you had electrical power, the details know that deer took a tumble when we were trying to do it.

Yeah. It kind of kind of slid down the hill. I feel like the zip tie failed. That's right. The zip tie broke off.

Yeah, it was a real steep slope. And instead of, like, dragging the deer, the deer kind of was it was one of those situations where instead of dragging do the deer's dragging you. Like once you got it out of its final resting place. It was just going, yeah, snow covered, very steep, icy hillside, and I think and it slipped out of my hand. Yeah.

And it slid down the hill a little bit through. And so we are in Iraq or something. Busted the zip tie. Yeah. And then we looked and looked for the dark.

Then came back. And I was going, you know, I was going to like figuring out we're going to try to contact Fish and Game. They had been validated, so we're like making a plan on how to contact the Fish and Game agency and say we have an Ontake Desroches, like, simply lost the tag.

And then went back in the daylight and scoured around and found the tag, we had no real reason why and that didn't change your mind either. Like you'll still be carrying zip ties this year. It wasn't until this gentleman I'm assuming this gentleman there was until this gentleman flagged it in my head that I realized that I finally put it together, that it might be better to use electric tape.

Yeah, it's a tough one, I don't carry both usually in my little kit that, you know, rides in my backpack along with me all the time, but I just feel my head right now that I have more uses for the three or four zip ties that I usually pack in there than I would if I had a little mini roller electrical tape.

I usually have a little mini roll of duct tape in there, so which I could use to keep it wrapped around my cigarette lighters.

Some states tags, though, if you put tape on, would totally destroy them. Yeah, that's kind of the other thing about this. Yeah. What are you going to peel the tape off? You're going to screw your thing up, especially now that more and more states are going where you print your tags at home.

Yeah. Erica, duct tape that on there and take it off again, you got to put into a little baggie and then duct and then. Yeah, is it.

I have I've used everything from paracord. Tied down, they're taped it on their med tape, duct tape, black tape, zip ties. I don't know. It seems like a lot of tags actually have two holes that are just the right size to slip that and zip tie or paracord punched for zip tie.

I use a big pin when I live in Pennsylvania. You put the tag through the pin and stick it through the year like a safety pin, like a big safety pin box.

And those. Yeah. Mhm, yeah, see, for us, it's usually not a problem because if we, if we butcher in the field, I mean I forgot that's my reason why I usually don't attach anything because legally you don't have to attach it until you're moving the carcass. And so usually everything's chopped up and quartered and we usually find if you need to have evidence of sex, we find the bag that has the test in it and then attach the tag to it inside the bag.

Close the bag.

You know, that's another argument for. Zip Ties is on Andalus game, a zip tie my tag to the Gambril.

To the Achilles tendon. Of the animal. I think a lot of states should take to learn a lesson from Alaska. Alaska doesn't, except for metal locking tags, which you need nonresidents need. You validate your tag and keep it on your person. They don't make you go through the sort of like it seems silly that you need to fasten it to the thing anyways, if it's with the person who has the thing in their possession, why can't they just keep it all nice and clean in their pocket?

Well, I think that, yeah, what we're talking about here in five years is probably going to be pretty archaic because pretty soon it'll be on your phone, you know, has the crew ever thought about using drones to scout for deer?

We talk about all the time, but it's becoming increasingly illegal what we do talk about, like the everyday we're having this conversation.

Hunt, moose and real thick willows and I was like, man. No wonder Alaska made drones legal because imagine you fly a drone and find all the moose in our camera guy was like, I think that like the rest just I, I think that seems like and he does a lot of drone work for all kinds of reasons, different kind of stuff from like real estate stuff to wildlife stuff.

But he's like the resolution in the Usagi goes. It just doesn't really work that way.

I'm don't know that I believe that it doesn't work that way because there are cases of people finding elk and moose and stuff with drones, but it's illegal in 20 some states now.

He's crazy to think that wouldn't work. Smith, imagine antelope on that country side and you fly that thing up and do a 360 pan, you don't think you'd see the herd of 20 out a half mile?

I should argue with them.

Yeah, I guess it all depends. Some of those, like a lot of those when you're shooting like landscapes with a drone. A lot of those lenses are real wide. Yeah. So when you look straight down, it's just like. You don't know what you're looking at. You know, the animals are if you're hot, if you're too like if you're I guess if you're low enough, you could see them. But at that point, they're going to hear the thing.

But the question was, has have was have we ever done it? Have you ever thought about doing it? We've definitely talked about how it's illegal and if it. Ought to be and how helpful would it be anyway and in what cases have they been abused? So beyond thinking about it, we've spent quite a bit of time discussing this subject.

All of the states that the states that ban drones are the states where drones would actually be helpful.

Open places, a lot of open country, and we we never fly drones on hot days, you know, like when we're out shooting these shells, all our drone stuff is like. Days that we're not going for that reason, just so there's never any confusion, right? Yeah, there's no regulations about flying a drone like for, say, in Mexico, but there's no way you're going to find, like, accused you of the drone.

I don't care. You're not going to find one. Do you ever use tracking dogs to find injured game? I have not used a dog that is trained and kept for the sole purpose of finding game in order to find game. I'm not either, but I think I feel like we're going to be seeing more and more of that.

And I actually have a guy offered me one who lives near where we're hunting in Wisconsin in November, and he has a Rothhaar or however those fancy dogs from Germany.

And so, yeah, we have a bad hit and we'll we'll try it out. Why didn't you try tracking your Colorado ball that night, because the best hope. Was that. The ball would lay down. And when you get a hit on something. And you don't hear, like, crash down and die or watch it crash down and die. You don't want to pressure it. Because if it is injured and runs off a ways and it's not being pursued, your hope is that it lays down and dies.

Once you get a sense that something's not immediately, mortally wounded and you start pursuing it, you will be bumping it out of its bed and if you bump it out of its bed and scare it. It will cover a distance in minutes that it might otherwise cover and many hours and if it's not bleeding sufficiently to follow its progress, you will lose it while it's hauling ass away from you. When if it just lays down and dies, you have a good chance, a better chance of finding it because you're at least in the right area and you haven't sent it off into the next county.

So following that, once you get down and take a look and be like this isn't going to go well. Don't pressure it. Give it time regardless, you shouldn't really pursue anything for an hour. Mm hmm. And I wasn't there. You were there with, I don't know, two or three guys with you.

But what you got to remember, too, is that blood trailing hand.

It is mentally and physically exhausting if you're like really on a hard blood trail. Two or three hours of that. I've seen it, man.

People just start falling apart because you're just not used to putting that sort of effort with you. I don't know if it's your eyes and having to stare like that and look and the emotions that you're going through.

But it's a lot of work. And so, you know, you shot him towards the evening and you guys spent, I'm guessing, a couple, three hours on it and then decided to bail.

I mean, it's a smart move to do because like you're saying, you want to let him rest, but you get some rest yourself. And then in the morning, you're nice and fresh and all a sudden those pin drops that you might have missed that night under a headlamp. The next morning you can see him and find him.

And, you know, we spent a few hours, but we didn't move 100 yards.

Yeah, it was because there's there's also, like all these little indicators you get, there's little indicators you get when you're on something that's got a bad hit where.

You either see things. Either reconstruct things and realize that like, oh, no, we're in good shape, it's going to die. Or you start putting the pieces of the puzzle together and you start getting a sense that it wasn't a mortal.

That is not mortally wounded or there's a good, strong likelihood that it's not mortally wounded and that would go by kind of like how the blood, how much blood, the patterns that the blood falls, the coloration of the blood, what we might what might be with blood. Does the blood fall on its own or does it only get brushed off when it brushes against branches, when it brushes against branches? How high on the branch or low on the branch?

Is the blood? Does it look oxygenated? Does it have little chunks of muscle in it? What's the coloration of the hair where the hit was on the ground? What what were the sort of mannerisms or the movements of the animal posted? And you get a sense that like yay or nay. I mean, sometimes you'll see something, you know, might get hit by a bow and you'll start, you know, go poke your nose in there down the 10 yards down the trail.

And it looked like someone had two cans of red spray paint going through the woods, going out each side.

And then I'm not too worried about everybody hanging around for three hours waiting because you just know what's going to be waiting for you there.

You got something that's. Punch through both lungs and every time its heart beats shooting out of it, shooting out an ounce of blood out of each side, and then you're like, let's go. Someone else wants to know, aren't you afraid that scavengers are insects will damage the carcass when you leave an animal like that?

Absolutely not. Insects. Just rot from heat. Just yeah, they got all the guts and the stuff generates a ton of heat. Generates heat, like even when they're dead, they've got some that's like big got the lawn wet lawn trimmings in their stomachs. It just creates heat, they rot the first place they rot is around the ball joints on their back hands and it just spreads from their. Yeah, man, and then and then not so much bugs right away, but but.

Bears, coyotes. Yeah, it's all everything, all this stuff, man, it's hard to keep your all rigid about it. It's like. All this stuff is like, well, there's this, but then there's that, well, there's this, but then there's that, there's this, but then there's that and then you factor it out and try to make a call. It's never like I know exactly what needs to be done, boys. It's more like that is kind of what it's like.

Someone writes, I want to hear you discuss the efficiency and ethics around using bows and muzzle loaders. Efficacy. Is lower because you can't shoot them as far. In their less forgiving. So but efficacy, efficacy is a hard thing to talk about because there's like. I don't know, I guess like a rocket propelled grenade would have tremendous efficacy. You'd probably get like. There's probably like military weapons, I suppose, like very, very high caliber, I don't know, like truck mounted machine.

I don't know.

There's like ways to get efficacy. Borders over into a. Borders over into an overkill situation, or the efficacy is so high that not many people will be able to have the opportunity to go try hunting.

Yeah, too many people are too good and Fairbreeze filling their tags and a lot less people are going to get the opportunity to go hunting, someone could say there's great efficacy in being able to use.

Night vision. A high powered rifle with night vision, you get up close, they don't know you're there, great clean shot placement, great efficacy. We should allow people to hunt at night. With night vision. Because it's better efficacy, you know, at a point you have a finite resource and the ability to.

The ability for a bunch of people to go hunting relies on the fact that that area is going to get one. Feels like you just answered this, but somebody asks, why doesn't Colorado let you use a scope on your muzzle loader for that elk season?

They're just trying to I think my guess is they're trying to widen the Gulf. They're trying to widen the gulf between. Firearm animals loader. Yeah, I mean, they're trying to keep it a primitive weapon, which is why muzzle loader seasons were came out in the first place, I believe now is like they're a little bit better than a bow. But they're not a modern firearm, right, and it gives you a chance to have more seasons more often.

It's like you're creating opportunity.

Someone else says after your Colorado hunt, are you still an advocate for muzzle loaders or are you less likely to support them?

I have absolutely no problem with manslaughters. I have no problem with muzzle loader seasons. I actually appreciate as much as it didn't work out for me. I appreciate Colorado's efforts to keep muzzle loaders as a sort of distinct weapon, class muzzle.

If you say if it's there's muzzle loader technology out there, you know, there's some very some phenomenal muzzle loaders.

Manda's guys that are getting 300 yards accuracy out of scope mauls loaders.

So, yeah, I applauded Pennsylvania has a Muslim overseas and there has to be a flintlock. It's got to be like the the hammer. There's a piece of flint that strikes a piece of steel and shoots a little spark into a hole which ignites the gunpowder, they go, Yeah, I grew up.

I grew up doing that. Yes. Fun, Jeriko. They're doing it. Yeah, I did. With muzzle. At one point I killed more deer the Musila than Bo and Rifle. But what about with a flintlock. Yeah, all flintlock. Oh really. OK, now I've never even shot a in line Musladin till I moved out here ok.

Yeah. If I was ruler of the United States of game laws I would make them almost better seasons like that. You know, flintlock iron sights, they're falling loose powder. If we lose power and we melt down, lead and make our own balls by loose powder, you know, indulge me for a minute there, Spencer. So if you went and looked at early retirement, Daniel Boone, Daniel Boone Honeywood, he had a rifle that was spiraled barrel souls rifle.

He had a rifle that was rifle.

He would take a powderhorn and paw loose gunpowder, gunpowder down his barrel. Then he would take a patch of cloth and put beargrease on it.

And Nestl, a LED's Sfeir into that greased piece of fabric and cram that down the barrel and that's your ball you're wadding and your loose gunpowder and you can pack that and then the firing mechanism was a little piece of flint that would strike a little piece of metal and shoot a spark into a whole.

He'd prime it, so it's like there's a flash pan. Yeah, there's a flash player with, like psephology or five G or whatever, like a finer gunpowder. Yeah, like we used I think it was like like two F in the barrel and three F in the pan. I think you're after too low or m.a three in the barrel, four in the pan or something like that. Yeah.

So when you hear it was just a flash in the pan, what you're saying is if Flint hits the prison, causes a spark, the spark falls into the pan. And ignites the powder in the pan, which goes through the tunnel and ignites the powder in the barrel, lot can go wrong a lot.

How much does go right time. And there a lot of time and a lot of room for flinching.

You've got to hold your bead because it goes like boom. Yeah. Boom. Yeah.

Yeah. I got a question about that. Here's my point real quick.

You know what those things are, is now you got like a little cake of powder that you can just carry around in your pocket.

Yeah. Or a pellet even. Yeah. So it's like. And there's no bear there's no greased piece of fabric. You got a conical shaped bullet that's like shaped like a bullet, it rests inside a piece of plastic, which is a sabbat, and then you can have powder that is even powder.

It's like. And then you have a. Primer that is like a little cap that you carry around and when you touch that trigger, you know that something is going off. I mean, it's just going off. And he put a scope on top. If you go watch our Maryland Seka episode, you'll see us hunt with these setups.

You're up there like when I see one, I'm getting them. And there's not the feeling you get with old style muscle odor. No, not at all.

Is it a known fact that Boone did not measure his powder? I don't you I don't think that they. Measured the powder in just reading accounts of how people did I think they freeboard and eyeballed, I don't think they were measuring there, but I'm sure that at times, maybe during a shooting match or whatever, sure, they would measure their powder.

But you read many accounts of just like I think it's just something you did all the time your whole life, the same way when you're putting salt on something, you cook. And I think they just. Open that horn up and knew what they were looking at. You measure like how many 100 grain charges until you just kind of like you could dump it out on the table and he'd be like, that's 100 grains, that's 100 grains, 100 grains.

And Freeport. OK, someone says, I totally respect the idea of not taking a different look in Colorado, but why did you not spend the rest of the trip looking for the one that you wounded?

It's a great question. Needle in a haystack and. Yeah, it's a great question. I don't even know what would it be. I don't know what it would have what doing so. What it would have begun to look like. To, like, stay out and try to find yeah, good question, no answer. Yeah, I don't know if he'd be looking for a dead animal or looking for a live one that's, you know, holed up somewhere with a wound on its chest or shoulder.

But, yeah, it's a good question. I don't know. Someone says, hello, Latvian eagles, long time Yianni slash Latvian lover, I would love to know more details about the distance and specifics of the Deer Drive in Wyoming, because that should happen quick.

And it looked like a real crack shot.

I think that was my favorite part of season nine was the drive seeing an executed deer drive in the backcountry like that, that that was special.

That might be the only one that ever gets executed ever anywhere. No, I'm sure there's a list that has a hole they drive deer out of all the time. But no, that outfitter, Stuart Petersen, he's been on that hillside on that mountain quite a few times. And if you could see the whole mountain. Well, I think we did a pretty good job in that diagram, kind of showing where there was timber and where there wasn't, but the diagram is great because it showed the diagram first.

I was like, this is oddly specific.

And then it goes back to showing, like the hunt. And I was like, oh, that's because they made it very specific.

Totally. Yeah. No, I mean, that was a very and we had glast this strip of timber numerous occasions in the prior, you know, five or six days looking for deer in there.

And it did not look like much and it looked like it was just a strip of raggedy.

You know, wind blown, I'm guessing, fir trees, you know, a lot of that stuff that they call the chicken tangle that they call Qiantang Qiantang.

Yeah, because it's tangled your shins when you walk through it, just like Gros Lokes is just got to be like a trying to like grab on to the rocks because it just like this these the strip of timber was just on a basically a giant scre slide hillside.

I mean that went on for, you know, a thousand yards either direction and hundreds of yards up and down until you either made the ridge or you actually dropped down into like the main timber, which would have been, you know, below tree or at tree line.

And he just knew that they hole up in there. And that morning we had bumped deer that had headed that way.

So he thought it was a pretty good chance to be deer in there. And again, he'd executed his drive prior to doing it.

That time, he told us a couple stories about other hunters that had sat where he was sending me and where I went to.

We'd already spent a couple of days sitting and looking at deer in the bowl below us on a ridge across from us. So I had a pretty good familiar familiarity with when he would explain to me where to go with what it looked like and what I was going to see there.

And I knew what he was talking about when he was talking about game shows, a wrapped around that hill and where they went, because, again, I had been sitting above them for a couple of days, so.

It didn't happen much faster. I mean, there was enough time that the photographer and I walked to the spot that might take in five to 10 minutes, we set up there. There was enough time for me to kind of like I did. I set up like a long range shooting position. If they kind of came out low and got farther, I needed a better rest. And then I had sort of a shorter range shooting position where I use my tripod and I had be attached to the top of it where I was going to shoot, you know, 100 yards or less or whatever.

And I sort of explained that to the camera a few times. And we were like, all right, now it's time to wait. We'll see what happens. And it probably wasn't more than five or ten minutes.

And you remember when a deer is pushed on a drive. They move so quick through that country that the pusher is probably just standing at that deer's bed when you shoot, even though you might be a thousand yards away from it.

I mean, that's how fast they move from that spot to where where I was. There's a good chance that Stewart had just gotten to those beds and said, oh, look at that.

There were some deer bedded here. And then he probably heard me shoot.

But no, they left those just like we saw in the deer diagram.

They left that little strip of timber and just wrapped right around the horn of that ridge and didn't drop down, didn't really come up. And then came basically right underneath me.

And as far as the crack shot goes, I saw him coming from Away's the photographer. That with news is he's a great photographer, but he hasn't done too much work with us yet.

And so it was happening fast. That deer was coming and it was in a lot of a lot of small trees is hard for him to pick up. But that deer was walking pretty slowly by the time he finally got over to me. And I think I shot him at like 60 or 70 yards. It was really a pretty easy shot on your muli.

It sounded like you were sawing through the brisket. If so, have you ever tried sawing right next to it where the ribs attach?

It's all cartilage and it's way easier even on Ilke w a a y way. Easier, so much easier making a point there was that for me. For either one of you who I know, the guy I always talk about, yeah, it's easy to cut over there. But here's the thing. When you come up with your gut decision, I'm going up the middle anyway.

The hair is real short along the brisket. And so I cut there and then I cut there on my saw, which is I don't I don't view it as very hard, and then you can just kind of open it up and it's like opening up center based in the middle. And you can get in there and cut the esophagus and trachea and everything and gut it and you can't go down to the side.

But then the other thing is when I take the rib slabs off this way, they're symmetrical. But sure, especially if someone had skinned it all the way back, I might just go up the side like that.

Yeah, I guess on a deer, I don't know, we might shave away that brisket and throw it into the grind pile. But I don't know why it looked hard, because I think zipping through the brisket of a deer is usually pretty dang easy.

I don't. It's enough. Easy enough. I don't really think about it being a thing. How did you feel when you were looking for your tag and you came back and found that the guy had cut your dear clean in half? Did you see it as disrespectful to your kill?

Absolutely not these guys, we're hot with some guys, Landon and Stewart, Peterson, crewcuts guy outfitters, and these guys are like phenomenal hunters, very hard workers. But they are like. They're Horsman. They're packers', if you like, a big part of their job is they their packers, they know how to move things from point A to point B, what B at people or materials on horses.

He has a way to carry a mule deer where?

You got a horse with a Pandur on each side and he knows where to cut it so that that front half and back half way the same when you're loading horses, that might not seem like this would be like an actual thing.

A pound matters.

The panniers on a packsaddle like their balance, they're just they're setting their balanced. There's some lashing himself primarily like if they're out of balance, is not going to ride. So he goes up to the third rib, whatever the hell he is, because the deer off at the knees goes up to the third or fourth rib, whatever, the thing and a half knows how to tilt its head over to make up the difference, puts it into pannier. And he knows that that mule deer is now cut in two halves the way the exact same amount.

I've never seen that before, and I thought my eyes were deceiving me in the episode, I thought someone else had killed the deer in the time that they had last shown your mule deer. And then when they came back to it, because it was like two halves of Mulatu there.

Yeah, we were trying to get I mean, it was I would have liked to have taken part in that process, but as you saw, like, it already had a snowstorm. It was very late at night. I was trying to find the deer tag, everything soaked. He just no, I thought it was genius. I didn't know about that trick, you guys weren't familiar with that Cottenham that way, too. So they weigh the same four first I it know.

Then he cocks the head over the top of the.

The crossbars there and out of there, yeah, if disrespect, if they could somehow be disrespect in getting something out cleanly and effectively.

I don't I don't see it. And they leave the hide under the to protect they like they leave the hide on to protect the meat, which is pretty common with horse people because you're not horse people. They're not always trying to find ways to make everything light.

So they're able to do. It's like making everything light and compact and transportable isn't like their primary focus, like they know how to use the horses for what they're best at.

So a lot of horse guys leave hide on stuff because when you get home, skin the hide off and it's all clean underneath. They use it like in substitutive a game bag. Then they oftentimes aren't looking to turn things into like a thousand bags of stuff.

Two is is fine, those guys are good dudes, man, they know they know their business very well.

Someone wants to know, can you cook mule deer ribs the same as whitetail ribs? Sure was the opposite. Well, either way, can you cook them the same way or cook the same question? Yeah, anything. Anything, any kind of rib's doesn't matter. Someone's wondering how you got the meat home from Wyoming. I'd love to hear a little more about your post hunt post field dressing, logistics, you know.

Yeah, I did the same thing just recently, all my Colorado. We've been flying, traveling with empty Yeti hopper coolers, but we drove to Wyoming.

Yeah, we just drove. Oh, I forgot. We drove those deer home, caught them in a lie.

You're right. You're right.

You know what? That question. There are some there are some more to that question that Spencer skipped over that was asking if we had checked him in on the flight.

Well, because I knew that you didn't fly from Wyoming and Montana, and that's good. Well, I think this guy wants to know how we do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. When we do fly.

Yeah. Like those guys are saying on that particular one, they just went home probably just about that way. Mine was quartered because we packed it off the mountain, but they just went into a cooler anyways for flying or road trip.

So for transport. For transport. Yeah. I'm going to get into the flying because this works pretty slick. But anyways, those Yeti hoppers, soft sided coolers, we get the meat cold. If we can freeze it, we freeze it. But it's usually just like large muscle chunks not fully processed. It doesn't look like it's going to go right into my freezer. I'm just trying to get it cold. So literally on my last hunt, I put the meat, came off the mountain, boned out.

I took it to a processor cooler and I said, how much I'm going to take for me. Just a story here for a while he said he said X amount or whatever it was per day. So it was in there for three or four days.

The day before we left, I went and picked it up and just shoved giant chunks of meat into these Yeti hoppers as far as I could get them and zipped them shut. Now they're heavy, they're overweight. So you have to pay for that on the flight home.

Now, you're forgetting a couple steps here. OK, you hadn't gone into Ziplocs, no. And then you had lined the hopper with a contractor bag, no. OK, I had cooled clean, not bloody, just by me stepping in here, it had been sitting on a wire rack, getting air circulating around it, like in a nice, you know, meat cooler thing that's going to get you in trouble.

Yeah. Oh, I learned this this I don't I hesitate to even tell people this. Someone from Alaska Airlines was telling me. They can't. They won't ditch stuff based on smell. It has to be an overpowering odor, OK? I was like, really? She's like, yeah, we can't. It's just like if something smells, we can't decide to get rid of it. Did you.

But what she said we can do. Anything dripping blood? Right, it's it's OK to not handle it, so I love her. Do I like to line the hopper with a good contractor bag?

Put my meat in there and then zip tie or electric tape, that contractor bag shut because I've heard from multiple airline people that anything dripping bodily fluids. Definitely is OK to, like, find his way to the dumpster, yeah, and like I said, this is a particularly particular instance where I knew the meat was just extremely hot once it dried out.

But like it says in laying in a cooler with air, going around it with a fan for three or four days at.

Until you froze it and then thought it out, then it would probably have juice or blood, wherever you want to call that stuff from the cells breaking down that it would leak. But when I told me, yes, if you strip the velvet off and let it dry because she said if someone touches that antler and gets that blood on their hands, they don't have to handle it.

It's good to know, but speaking of antlers and a head. This is going to be a real conundrum because that same shop, I'm like what they did, they did like the skull cleaning you like a quick European amount, like how much that, you know, I'm thinking I'll just pay for it.

No big deal.

Well, they wanted 350 bucks. So to freedom out of school. Yes.

I'm like, all right, I'll figure something out. You have got to be a kid.

What's the world coming to? Seems like that's going great.

So.

Well, I had I had pretty much a head that had sat in the garage for four days now and it was, you know, kind of cleaned.

I pulled the eyeballs out and pulled some meat off of it. Brains still in it. Actually, we had to pull the brains out because it's because we didn't know if we had to. I think we actually checked and you didn't have to for that.

There are some places don't want to make this confusing, but there are some places where you had to be very careful about transporting brain matter bones in different parts of animals across state lines and even from unit to unit in different states. So if you're going to do that with any kind of meat, redirects closely. So I thought that was going to be the case. So we took we pulled the brain out, but I still had, like, this kind of semi one rotten yet, but just a bloody he had had some dirt on it.

And you can't just walk into the airport like that. So I took some shop towels, like basically a blue paper towel, kind of put it on there, wrapped a little bit of duct tape on there to hold out on there.

Then I took as a regular old grocery sack like, you know, the small one. If you just go and get a few things from the grocery, wrap that around the head.

Then I went balls to the wall with duct tape and covered the whole head and turned it into like a piece of art that just looks like a skull covered in duct tape.

Now, that was fine for that is contained, right? Could you get a garden hose or pipe insulation? Yeah. So then I went and got as perfect as they sell, like I didn't know, eight and like 10 foot chunks, garden hose, and you cut about, I don't know, four or five inches of garden hose and stick it onto the end of a tine.

And then basically just you don't even have to tape the top part, the open part above the time just to keep the garden hose on the time you take that up and they want you to do that. So it's not sharp because if they put a head with tines into the bottom of an airplane and someone tosses, you know, a piece of luggage on top of it could very well go right through it.

Right.

So you're protecting other people's stuff by taping that or that plane goes down and also that antler comes crashing up through the floor of the plane.

Oh, right. You get a time before you burn up.

So anyways, yeah, I checked that and the guy had zero questions, just like put a tag on it and stuck it in.

And then I it was interesting. They loaded it. There was the very last piece of gear to go on to the plane.

I say gear, luggage. Yeah. She walked it over and handed it to the person, didn't even ride the conveyor belt.

They took care of my antlers very, very well. That's great. Yeah.

It's nice when people are like that. Yeah. Because you are coming in with something like that, you're always a little bit like what am I, you know, what am I running into flying home. My kids care, but we come in, they're like, welcome home, welcome.

Well, they're Anchorage and Alaska Airlines. They're used to that. It's a Fairbanks. Yeah. You come in here with the polar bear, they're like, well, please wrap his claws in something like inflation.

When we flew home from Sonora, you guys just carried those bucks on just a small. Yeah, but I've seen I've seen people get turned away. Oh, really? Yeah. I've seen people get turned away. I saw the other day, speaking of flying with stuff I saw the other day, a guy getting a major, major fight.

He was fighting with the TSA guy so bad he had speed loaders. So you had a hard case of this pistol stuff. These are some kind of competitive shooter I could tell by all of his shirts and guys use with.

And you're supposed to like when you fly the American flag with ammo in its original box or a container made for ammunition, you know.

He had a hard case with his pistol, and in it he had all this ammo loaded into speed loaders. Mm. And the TSA guys like, no. And he's like, oh, I fly all over, you know, the first thing you say to anybody to talk about how much you fly all over the place, right? I fly with this deer head everywhere I go never before. But he lays that on them. And this guy is like not giving an inch to do get so heated.

It also in two cops come in, one cop comes and stands back.

Like to survey the situation right now, another cop goes out to engage with the dude. And it was the most genius piece of policing I've ever seen because you could the cops like. Once a here's a guy standing like a pistol in an airport, right? Are you over speed loaders and he's getting heated up.

Yeah, and this guy can shoot good. So the policeman comes up and the police bands like the TSA dudes, basically his colleague, they both work in the same airport. So you see that he can't alienate the TSA guy. And he comes up and explains that in my in defending the TSA guy, you could tell he doesn't agree with the TSA guy, but he said we have a job of interpreting in a situation like this.

We interpret. The situation we interpret the law and it's for courts to figure that out later, but in the moment we need to make a judgment call. This is the judgment call this man has made. Then the guy is still getting heated up, this this police guy takes the guy's speed loaders and says, I will get these held for you and when you're coming through town again, I'll come and bring him to you. You let me know.

Here's my business card. Dude, calm right down, Nice didn't fly with his speed loaders, the cop, like, soothed everybody out. I have a game like a nice job as he's walking away. It was getting heated up, then he came and just dissolved that shit like dissolved that shit.

That's great.

Was their ammo. They were loaded.

You said he instead of having his pistol rounds in boxes, he had them on all these speed loaders.

Right. And I don't know why it never occurred. The guy just the like, but you screw in the airport because you can't go take all the Amwell thought the trash can. They're not going to let that fly.

No, but I'm surprised if he had needed those speed loaders like, say, for the competition that maybe he was flying to, that he would have kept those and just he was going.

I knew he is going home now. He's headed home. No, it's a great bit of policing. It was good. Everybody save face. No one was like, yeah, all right, then I saw that saying, please guy again later in the airport, I was one of them said something to give. I start thinking, you think I was creepy.

In the making of all nine seasons, how many times has the camera crew scared off an animal you were hunting? Only once, all the animals all the time. What was the once? I'm joking.

They they go out there, but they spot a lot of them, like they spook a lot and spot a lot.

Are they carrying binoculars? Oh, they get into it. Yeah.

They, they, we got some camera guys have become like very enthusiastic about dancing and every food lot.

There we go. And we spot them. They hear them. It's know it's tough for the bunch. It's there's a lot of complications, there's a lot of good that comes out of it, you know, a lot of eyeballs, man. Yeah. You know, I worry about missing something that comes close by. What are you doing differently with the cinematography this season?

It has a different feel, but in a good way to handle that one. The answer is nothing, if you felt that way and saw something, you know, you can certainly send me an email to the info. A meat eater is an info.

We have that sponsor, you know, where they send emails to you when they send them to general email inbox.

I don't know. I don't know how I'll get there. Well, how do you get a contact ship to contact your page on the website? A lot of good stuff, but I can tell you that, you know.

Just about everybody that we worked with on that season has been working with us for quite a few years and just through tweaks and polishing, you know, it gets better and better, hopefully always change in always upgrading and changing equipment.

And you'd like to think the people just get better at what they do.

Yeah, I think people just get better ideas get better. Everyone is just growing.

There's the thing that happens, too, is that the camera operators that you use a lot, this probably isn't what this person is getting at, but the camera operators usually start to get a real sixth sense.

They kind of understand, like they start to understand how animals, like they understand how the situations play out, how the interactions play out.

And just through exposure to it, I think, get a sense of also body language that people have right in and they get they kind of like meld into it in a better way and they sort of know, you know, for instance, like the importance of kind of like tying in a person in an animal.

Right. So if you're like, oh, there's a deer over there. Right. That rather than showing the hunter and and showing the deer and showing the hunter and showing the deer, they kind of get where they position themselves to get the hunter and the deer in the same shot.

Right.

And that just comes from exposure and seeing these things happen again and again and also from a good relationship between the the the host or talent or guests or whoever and the shooter, where they start to really understand, you know, if you hunt with someone all the time like a body.

You just kind of know what they're thinking and doing, you know, like you're walking along grouse hunting and you don't say like, OK, we'll stay roughly this far apart and, you know, and whatever it is without talking, you just understand what each other is up to.

You don't just then wander off and leave the guy, you know. So just do that proximity. I think a lot comes out of that that could lead perhaps to some of what they're talking, what they're noticing.

And I imagine also just like equipment and and. Getting better at your craft. Behind the scenes, what are your meals like and your snacks like before obtaining fresh meat? Just depends, man. All depends. Yeah. We're running out of a like house that we've rented or staying at someone's place. We were we were rarely based out of a hotel.

So we usually like to base have a place where we can cook our own meals. And in that case, I mean, it's not too different than what you might be having at home for dinner. I mean, we usually have spaghetti night and we have taco night. You know, it's just a pretty broad night.

I mean, it's definitely something that I can and Seth can cook up quickly, you know, because after a long day of hunting, last thing, you wanted to spend as much time in the kitchen. So stuff that we can whip up quickly.

I was going over just with Chester Molester last night. Yeah, he's he's got to go. Simple. Yeah. He tried to go too complicated one time. I know. I got to go simple. Yeah.

People are tired. It's late. Yeah. And which we often bring we'll bring our own meat. You know we talk about that too. Yeah.

If you're going to travel with some empty Yati hoppers you might as well pack in a couple roasts and stuff.

But some trips we do all freeze dry like maybe instant oatmeal in the morning, all freeze drying for lunch, just like have a thing. A male has some cheese, have some salami and flatbread.

Very simple. Bunch of granola bars now on the Wyoming hunt. We had a full on cook. Yeah, they were cooking out there. It was a outfitted trip. So they did like outfitter meals. Yeah.

Which if we weren't going to do, but then I figured, you know, give us more time to, you know, focus on the honey. Come home again. Tired. I mean, because full meals.

Full meals. Yeah. Because like that night you killed you Buck.

I mean you were in like four or five hours after dark. Mm hmm. You know, I was someone like made all kinds of cool food. Oh, yeah. We I think we put on lamb they made during that trip.

That's a I think it's a game changer when someone else is cooking because we want to worry about it. Gives us a lot more time to do other things. What's it like to pack out an elk at elevations above 10000 feet? And are there noticeable physical differences between elk at lower elevations and higher elevations? Man, they don't even have to be ten thousand feet, man, if you come from sea level, 5000 feet might be very arduous and a tough pack out.

I still don't hear people.

I can't think of a conversation where someone was. Factoring elevation above, just distance. You know, you talk about, like you might say, man by myself, I don't think it would I think it would be irresponsible for me to kill Elk more than a mile from my truck.

I've never heard someone say hunt by myself. It would be irresponsible for me to kill an elk more than a mile from my truck at said elevation.

Like, I just don't it's a real thing and it factors in. But I don't know that I hear people maybe they should pay attention to that because it's a major, major issue.

It is. But if anything, at 10000 feet, most places during archery elk season and then as you get later, it be even more to your advantage.

But it's going to be pretty cool, like above 10000 feet. There's not a lot of days that are actually going to you take care of your meat and get it hung on the north side of that tree that it couldn't hang there for two or three days and be just fine, giving you plenty of time to do the actual work.

Mm hmm. In terms of the difference of the animals, I don't know that a layman isn't going to look and know, but there's no way. There's not a difference. And there's no way there's not a difference in fitness between some crazy elk in Colorado living at ten, eleven thousand feet, an elk living at two thousand feet, there's no way there's not a difference in. That the ten thousand foot elk is not going to smoke the two thousand foot elk in a race at 10000 feet.

I mean, how would it. Yeah, there's no way. It's just like anybody else, you live at high elevation, you learn how to perform at a high elevation. Mm hmm. But I don't you know, I'm not going to, like, dissect want to be like, look at this. See, he's got a. Did you learn anything watching Jesse butchered the little guy? Yeah, quite a bit cooking more than butchering, but the biggest thing I picked up from him butchering that I now do is that cleaver rubber mallet man had a clear trick like I always knew about it, you know, and I'd seen it.

But like to really see someone who's good at a rubber mallet and a cleaver. It's nice, man. I started doing that even in my kitchen.

Cleaver in a Robert Malley.

It's just very precise feeling because a lot of people take Cleaver and start just wailing away at stuff.

But when you put that blade right, you want it and give it a love tap with a rubber mallet. It's so precise.

Well, I think to have Mike messed up a cleaver to because when you're whacking balls with a cleaver, that blade cannot withstand that. Those impacts, you end up like really digging in and like putting full on waves and your blade, especially his grandpa's old carbine.

And it's probably not meant to do that.

It's meant to be used the way Jesse was used. A little love tap with a mallet there.

It's like just on a around derivs one, even on just a home cutting board. I was like, so I usually hacksaw all my ribs shorter because I go tell and you take that cleaver and lay it on a nice sharp clarinet mallet.

It's just like, oh, satisfying man. So that was on the beginning, but mostly I learned from him.

Cooking, I mean, he's just like a thousand times better cook than I am. When you're hunting in Wyoming and your guides wouldn't do anything on the Sabbath, what would have happened if you guys still had tags to fill?

Oh, they wouldn't care if we'd gone on, we would have been hunting. Could you use the horses? No, no.

Their horses rest on Sunday. Oh, it's it's everybody. Well, no, they don't.

If you're with those guys, then you want to go do something. They're not going to care.

If you said, hey, I want to go fishing, they'd be like, oh, God, that's why we packed my bike out on foot and all our bags.

What about the cook? I can't remember what I believe that their employees took the Sunday off to. Yeah, I don't I don't imagine. I don't imagine that they would say that we're going to take the day off and we'd prefer that our horses take the day off. But then an employee of theirs would be obligated to work.

But then again, she certainly made breakfast and dinner for us that day. Yeah, because I think, like, just eating, you know. I mean. Yeah, yeah. You got to get a line somewhere. I can't. Yeah.

I can't remember but no they're very. Observant of their religion and in a like a you know, an admirable, admirable, respectful way, and it will have been never been that. We could have done whatever we wanted now and there's now, you know, they're like quite up front about it. That was totally cool. I actually appreciated it. On the Wyoming hunt, how many horses were with you in camp? So no man, close to 20 about bet.

It's not like one wanted one, though, like one human to one horse.

No, we pack that pack animals and we got crew. We had a huge string because of all the gear and. Packing in pelican cases and shit, yeah, I don't think it was 20 now, probably, yeah, probably closer to 15 ish, I guess. They probably each led a string of. Four or five and then plus all of us, yeah, solid 15, there's a lot goes into that horse business, man. My sister in law knows a lot about horses, that she knows more about horses than she can even begin to tell you, because it doesn't it's not even things that.

You know, I mean, like the same way when you're talking to people, you're making all these calculations and observations about their personality and stuff. And later you say like, oh, I got you know, you can't be like I like him because, you know, this, this, this and this. You just don't think about it that way. But people that are around horses, man, they look at a horse and they just see something I don't see.

There's a lot happening under the surface. And to keep all those horses moving in the same direction stuff without getting all worked up, pissed off, it's it's something that they were hard work and that they would be up well before us and go to bed. Way I've just taken care of the horses, I mean, there's a lot of horses to take care of. Yeah, you've got to draw licenses to hunt in that area.

But I'm telling you, man, I would without hesitation. In terms of like getting your money's worth and having some work, like I without hesitation recommend doing a guided hunt.

In terms of like someone that like wants to hard and is willing to put in the time and those guys are. Hard workers, last question is probably the most common question the media got, when will there be part to. Soon. So early, twenty, twenty one, right? Soon, soon. Soon. So. Thank you, Spencer. Good work, Spencer said. Thank you. Absolutely. Thank you. Good work. And I think people will be honest.

You're welcome. Thank you. Good work. Thank you, Steve. Thank you.