Welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show your home for open, honest and provocative conversations. Hey, everybody, it's Megan Kelly. Welcome to the Megan Kelly Show today. Love hated, never ignored Candace. Oh, and she has been pilloried, pilloried by the left, called every name in the book. But she does not care. She is trying to reach out to the black community, which largely votes almost 90 percent, votes Democratic and lure them over to the Republican side.

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Candace Owens, so glad to have you here. Thank you for having me. My pleasure. Honestly, I've been listening to you for so long and just watching what's been happening to you and your career and then also the incoming that you take with such grace. And there's a lot I want to go over. Can we start with this covid and Trump? Because at the time we're talking now, Trump's, of course, receiving yet more backlash over his comments on covid because he had the temerity to say, don't be afraid of covid, don't let it dominate your life.

And the media has responded by calling him disgusting, dangerous, irresponsible and so on. Your thoughts on it?

Yeah, the media loves to categorize people as dangerous for saying things that should be common sense. Fear should never be the thing, the mechanism that is controlling you day in and day out. And we have a lot of viruses. This is humanity, a whole lot of viruses, new viruses, old viruses that we have learned to cope with that we are going to have to learn to cope with. And this is unusual in a sense that it almost seems as if the media wants people to be fearful, that they want to have this virus as a way to control the way people think, where people act.

And Trump is right and I tweet actually this morning, but I think the left and the media are categorically misunderstanding Americans. Early on, back in February and March, there was a fear that was palpable in the air. Now I sense a frustration and that Trump is going to be on the right side of this thing in a couple of weeks when Americans head to the polls, people want their schools to be open. They want their jobs back. They like they want their lives resumed.

Their understanding of the lockdowns are causing a lot of deaths, a lot of suicides. And I think I agree with him wholeheartedly. And I think that the Democrats will pay for standing on the lock down America forever and wear a mask platform at the polls.

What about the what the other side will point out is that the American people do support mandatory masks, that they're with Joe Biden when it comes to these mandatory masks, you know, across the country from state to state, it's simply not true.

And I think the greatest example that we can point you to take a look at that is look what happened when Governor Ronda Santurce lifted the mandates. People were pouring into the bars. It's the same thing that happened. I live in Washington, D.C. As soon as the lockdown stopped, even before they started, people were out. They miss one another. There's no substitute for human contact. And I think that people are happy to play the game for a little bit when it comes to their safety.

But long term, telling people that they cannot see their relatives, they cannot bury their relatives. I'm currently pregnant six and a half months pregnant, and my husband has not been able to attend a single appointment with me because of covid-19 restrictions. So once again, I think that they are they are misunderstanding Americans and Americans crave human connection. And that's what we're starting to see now.

You look amazing, by the way. Congratulations. So excited for you guys.

When I look at the polls because I looked a little deeper in the mask mandates thinking I was surprised to see these numbers that up as upwards of 70 percent are in favor of these mandatory masks, the mandates.

And it looks like it does break down largely along party lines that Republicans are against them and Democrats are for them. And obviously, Trump is a Republican and is trying to appeal to the Republican base. But what do you think is going to happen if Joe Biden gets in there? What what kind of leadership do we get on Garone? I'm sure he will fan the flames of fear. But what happens in the country when it comes to dealing with this thing?

That's a really scary question to ask, because he's not only all in the mask mandates, he's now using it as a prop. He just recently tweeted a photo of him wearing a mask and saying to everyone, wear a mask, it saves lives. And he has been pretty open about the fact that he favors a massive mandate. So what I see happening is, unfortunately, a bit of civil unrest in that people will just refuse to do it.

And the only way you're going to get three hundred and thirty million people to abide by a policy like that is with force. It kind of relates in some ways, not at not perfectly, but to the attitudes we're having about safe spaces when it comes to political discourse or just any discourse, cultural discourse, you name it, where there is a strong faction within the Democratic Party that believes you just you're not allowed to say certain things because it makes someone feel, quote, unsafe and feeling at all, quote, unsafe is totally unacceptable in twenty twenty America.

Whereas I think most Republicans or even independents feel like we're not about safe spaces here in the United States. We're about risk taking, dealing with the consequences of that. Right. We deal with responsibility that. Comes with our own choices, then the response to that with respect to Karena has been screw you, your choices could end my life, but now the data is proving the risk of that is very small and my choices could end somebody's life on any given day right behind the wheel of a car out on the street.

If I behave irresponsibly on a bicycle or in front of a car, and I just wonder how long it's going to take before people relax and we can at least attempt some semblance of normalcy.

That question depends upon the media. What we're seeing happening is a psychological conditioning like we've never seen before. When have you ever and you have a very long career in the media. Have you ever seen the media do a death ticker for anything? I mean, could you imagine if every day the media ran a death ticker for how many times people got into a car accident? And would you ever get in your car if you saw those numbers climb or the following day?

Yeah. Or the flu, any of these any of these things. And people don't realize how unique it is that the media is participating in this by creating a death ticker every single day that goes up, it's causing people to be psychologically damaged. And I've seen this before. People are fearful to be around their kids, their husbands, their mothers, their fathers. And they're angry when they find out that people are not fearful. How dare you go see your 80 year old mother when covid-19 is is breaking out as if an eight year old doesn't have the agency to make their own decisions.

And it's somehow the responsibility of the government to keep them safe when it's not. And to go back to your comment about this being along party lines, it makes sense as we see M.F. sort of make a push towards socialism. What is socialism, if not the ultimate government overreach, if it's not the ultimate government expansion, believing that the government should offer a solution for practically everything and control our every move so that it makes total sense to me that we're seeing that division across party lines and the media doesn't want to provide context on the coronavirus.

In my experience, I haven't trusted them from the beginning and with good reason. They don't deserve our trust. They don't they've lied to us about so many different things and tried to vertue signal in so many different things.

And they're at their least credible. They're least credible when the story could be bad for President Trump. And this was obviously such a story right from the beginning.

And by the way, it has been bad for Trump and remains. So we're we're a month out from an election. So, you know, we don't know how they're going to change the coverage after November 3rd, but they are not to be trusted. So all along, I've had difficulty knowing who to trust. I think a lot of people have. I want to ask you, though, because you make the point about the media and sort of pumping it.

And all I can think is the same is true on the on the police killings of black men narrative because the facts do not support LeBron James is tweet that black men are being hunted by police every day in the streets of America. But the media every election year chooses one case.

And I grant you, the George Floyd tape was awful, but they choose one case, they blow it up and they fan the flames of a narrative about police writ large.

That isn't true. Right, if the media had any interest in the truth, then LeBron James would be making a statement that police officers are literally being hunted by black men because we know that they're 18 and a half times more likely to be shot by a black man than the other way around. We also know that white men, when you look at their rates, are killed at a higher rate than black men by police officers. And yet we don't know any of the names of a black person.

If a white person or Hispanic man unarmed that was killed by police, we could right now name several black men that more than several dozens of black men that were shot and killed unarmed by police officers. We can't do it about any other race because the media is not interested in presenting the truth. They're interested in inciting a race war. And they've been largely successful in that beginning in the twenty, fifteen, twenty sixteen election years. And they've got in now.

It seems it's become an obsession and they know that they're called it causing unrest. They know that they are in the end ultimately hurting black Americans with this narrative. Black and black Americans die in these riots and these protests in these Black Lives Matter demonstrations.

And they don't care because what it is about, what it is for the media in an election year is to create the most possible unrest and then to turn it around and to blame it on the president. And that's what we're seeing. And that's something that I fight day in and day out to awaken black Americans to, that we really are just being political, being used as political pawns.

Well, that's I mean, Coleman Hughes, who I'm sure, you know, he's amazing. He's he's a lefty. I mean, he's a liberal. So he's in a unique spot because he's a he's a black liberal who's been challenging this narrative. I guess it's not that surprising to hear some Republicans challenge the narrative, but he's a liberal who's been trying to take an honest look at this. And he's been pointing out the case of Tommy Timba, a white guy who had nearly the exact same thing happened to him that happened to George Floyd.

And no one knows his name. No one. There may be some bias in policing when it comes to interactions short of killing. There's no other way to put it, but manhandling and stopping on the street and profiling. And there there have been so many black men and testimonials about their negative encounters with the cops, where there's an assumption right from the get go that the black man is a criminal and they're roughed up and it creates a resentment. What do you think of that?

So I don't have those statistics in front of me, but what I what I do know is an important question to ask is, is it biased if it's based in reality? And what I mean by that is we know that that black Americans are if you're looking at the statistics, we are a more violent group and people don't like to hear that because it's the truth. Right? So people don't like to hear that. We represent 13 percent of the population, yet account for about 40 percent of all the murders in this country.

If you look at armed robbery, we look at violent crimes. Black Americans are committing all of these things and the alarming rate much higher than white people. And that is a true discussion, a meaningful discussion that should be had. We can talk about why we can build upon that and and maybe get to some short answers. But people won't at first acknowledge that. So if you are a police officer and you are policing in an inner city and you are having a confrontation with a black American, especially amidst the Black Lives Matter movement, where it seems that from the videos I'm seeing, every time a black American has any confrontation with police officers, now they're saying, I can't breathe, I can't breathe.

Right. I've seen these tapes over and over again because they realize that there's a narrative out there that will support them. Not listening to police officers. These are these are really important questions to ask. Why are black Americans killing at a higher rate than white Americans? Yeah, I mean, you do get in trouble at the latest statistics I saw was that that black Americans or black men are responsible for 60 percent of the violent crimes in our major cities.

And so that's there's a reason they have more interactions with police. And you could say that the police are also sexist because they're only having these encounters with men, not with women, but they're not encountering the women. The women aren't committing the crimes. So they have a much lower likelihood of having a negative experience with a police officer. But, you know, what we're actually seeing is that women in the inner cities, black women, they want more police, not less police.

They want they get nervous when the police get taken away from their precincts, their their vestibules of their buildings because they know crime is going to go up. But No one it's I don't know, Kandace. It feels like people don't care about the women and the children. They're very focused on on the defendants who resist arrest and things go south.

And I say that all the time, that there really should be a movement talking about why people don't care about these horrific experiences that a minority women are having with black men. Jacob Blake would have been a great time to talk about that. He had the cops called on him by a black woman. This was a woman there was a warrant out for Jacob Blake's arrest for digitally raping a woman, digitally assaulting a woman. And a pretty horrific story story behind it.

And nobody cared. His name still got put on the helmets of NFL players. Think about that.

Kamala Harris is out there saying to him she's proud of him. She was proud of him.

Mm hmm. The standard has been so remarkably lowered. And people look past these black women that are speaking up, these minority women that are speaking up and saying what happened. People were horrified when I retold the story of what happened with George Floyd when he started that longer sentence for armed robbery, pretending to be a waterman and breaking into a woman's house while a small child was there holding a beer, a barrel of the bullet to her, to her stomach and robbing the place.

Nobody cares about that woman, though. There's morals. Nobody cares about what she went through and what it took for her to stand trial and to say, yes, that is that is the man that came into my home and put a a barrel of a pistol to my stomach. Nobody cared about that. Nobody cares about the truth because they're obsessed with the narrative. And the narrative that they're obsessed with is that white police officers are running around for no reason, harassing and killing and stalking black men.

And unfortunately, none of that is true.

What they'll say about, at least in the Jacob Blake case, is what does that have to do with a cop pumping seven bullets into his back like that? What does that have to do with anything? Yeah, and I think what upsets me is that what people don't realize is that in each of these situations, you you have black men that are resisting arrest. And and another case in point would be the Rashad Jackson case, where we all got to watch on tape him.

He was being treated very kindly by police officers, then starts physically assaulting them, punching them in the face, grabs their taser, fires the Taser at the police officers, and then runs away with the Taser. And a police officer shoots him in the back and Rashad Brooks dies. Nobody considers that these police officers have families to go home to, to any any individual that is resisting arrest with a police officer and being violent. Jacob Blake heading toward a knife is involved at Rashad Brooks.

A Taser is involved. You are realizing people are failing to realize that police officers lives are being put at risk and they're being told it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. I don't care if you never see your wife and kids again, you need to let this dangerous criminal go. And that's problematic. You know, we get to a point in society that we can no longer agree on the left and the right between right and wrong, basic concepts of rightness and wrongness.

It's scary because these are not things of a left and the right use of debate. Nobody used to debate whether or not police officers deserve a modicum of respect. Right. Whether or not you should listen to police officers regardless of your skin color. Well, these are now matters that are being debated.

I mean, it's funny because I did a great interview with these four black female police chiefs from the Raleigh Durham area a couple of years ago. And they were all talking about they were amazing and they're strong. And they you know, they're in an interesting position, right, because they're they're black. They have black sons, and yet they're chiefs of police. So they're not anti cop, but they recognize that there could be some improvements. But they were talking to me about, quote, the talk that they all had to have with their sons about you get pulled over by a cop.

You put those hands ten and two on the steering wheel, do exactly what he says. If something goes wrong, we'll deal with it later. But you you comply in the moment or things can go bad quickly. And I thought, God, that's amazing. Like, it must be hard to have to think like that as a as a black mother, that if my son doesn't listen, he could die. And then I started talking about it more in my social circles and a lot of my mom friends who a lot of my white friends who have boys who are now driving age said, we say that too.

Like it's a I don't know if it's just a black teenage thing as much as a boy teenage thing, because, I mean, let's face it, the number of times women resist arrest or give a cop a hard time, I think are far fewer than the number of times some teenage kid will do it.

Boy, correct? That's correct. In that conversation, you're exactly right. Happens in households all across America. And yet somehow we've had this narrative taught to us that this is only happening in black homes, that they have to be told to listen. I believe that when you raise children, you always tell them that they should listen to authority and respect authority. That shouldn't be I mean, that that should be implied. I was raised on those ethics.

My grandfather put that into our heads when we were young. But you respect authority that there are rules. And if you have an issue, there is a time and a place to raise those issues. But the idea that blows my mind that I would ever physically assaulted officer, you have to be mentally unwell to think that that that is an OK thing to do. And then on top of that, to do that, to have a situation, then obviously go awry and then to turn around and say you're the victim after resisting an officer, hitting an officer, running from an officer who was telling you to stop over and over and over again.

And then the community is actually shocked when this situation doesn't turn out positively.

Well, that's I mean, that is remarkable when people say, OK, the fact that he that he digitally raped his ex at a prior time has nothing to do with why he took all the bullets in the back. And my response has been right. But, you know, possibly, although it gives you context for why the police were there and what they thought they were dealing with and when they arrived, because they were called by the ex who said he's violating a restraining order.

But something happened in between those two events, which is according to eyewitnesses and the police, he resisted arrest. He got the cops in a headlock. He was tasered and kept going. He had a knife. I mean, that is the reason he was shot, because he resisted arrest and threatened the officers lives. Once the police believe reasonably that they are in danger of dying or great bodily harm, they are allowed to use lethal force. And the first bullet is not distinguished from the 7th, correct?

Correct. And that is why I fully supported the police officers in this situation, as I have done many times. And I think it's time we get to a point. And it really is the bigotry of low expectations on the black community that that people don't think that we're able to just listen to basic instructions. I mean, I've been I've been pulled over. I've had officers yelling at me before. Or I've been uncomfortable scenario at the end of the day, was my fault.

I didn't know he had been following me for three miles because my music was blasting. So he didn't know what was going on, why I was still racing at 80 miles per hour up a highway. And he was obviously very nervous when he pulled me over and he was shouting at me. But you know what? My instinct wasn't to resist or to yell at him or disrespect him. It was to apologize, you know, to make sure that I showed him that this was genuinely a mistake.

But this was a mix up. And this is what we're seeing happen over and over and over again, is that now there was an expectation that black Americans do not need to comply. And even if they don't comply, even if they're violent, even if they're resisting arrest, somehow we should be able to walk away from that situation unscathed. And that is wrong and that is problematic. And that is what I speak out against. Next up, a very frank discussion between Kandace and yours truly on victimhood.

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So let's talk about what happens to you when you speak out against this, because I as a lawyer, look at the data, I look at the facts. That's what I want to know.

I'm open minded on all of these cases. You know, tell me tell me what the facts are and then I'll draw a conclusion. And I see that in you two, you don't obviously you don't jump to this is racist conclusion as a knee jerk or, you know, usually. But I do want to talk to you about that. But you get it. You get backlash. Of course, I've been called a racist. Most Republicans have been called racists when they try to talk about anything having to do with race or police, etc.

, you get it in a particular way. It is vicious. And I wonder if you can just talk about that for a minute. Yeah, there is a visceral response to me and cost the white community and the black community on the left side, and I when I get it from white Democrats, there is a stain of racism in it. They're just so angry that this black person isn't behaving in the way that she ought to behave, because this is they've set up this perfect narrative.

And I need to see myself as a victim and I refuse that. And I assess situations that according to what color a person is, but according to the facts of the situation and I know from black Americans, you get this, you're a traitor, Uncle Tom, you're CWD. All of these racial slurs that are developed to basically say to a black person, what, you're no longer allowed to be black? And people ask me all the time, how do you deal with it?

To me, to be honest with you, again, like, I don't really care. The truth is the truth. I'm not losing any sleep over the fact that you can't see the truth or that you think that I need to behave a certain way because the color of my skin, my grandfather didn't survive segregation and go through time for there was actually systemic oppression so that I could wake up every day and see myself as a victim. I'm a blessed person.

I live in the greatest country in the world and people find it appalling that I don't see myself as less than that. I see myself as equal and perfectly capable of moving through society by following rules and being respectful. Right. And then lead a life that that reflects that. I mean, I for my whole life have been very anti the word victim and anti victim mentality, even when I have been the victim of a crime, for example. And, you know, I've been targeted by bullies, as I know you have, which we'll talk about.

But it's not that nothing has ever happened to me to make me feel victimized. It's then just the mental shift that comes shortly thereafter where you say, yes, something bad has happened. But I refuse. I refuse to let them make me their victim. I always use the word target. Yes, I was so and so's target. I was targeted by those bullies. But I it's been super helpful to me in my life and my drive towards success to not get mired in that.

And what I'm seeing in the country right now is a huge sway, a huge rush to embrace that ideology. And I don't I know there's racism in the country. I don't know about systemic racism. I listen to you. I listen to Larry Elder and and I hear statistics that say it isn't true. But I I don't think it's healthy to be running toward victimhood, even if it is true. Well, there it's not healthy, but it is healthy for people that want to garner power.

That is exactly the kind of mentality that you want the masses to develop a reliant mentality. I say this all the time, black America especially. There was this tremendous coddling and infantilizing of black America, but it also extends to children on campus. I mean I mean, you brought up students and the safe spaces that are now happening at the college level. At the university level, you're seeing these safe spaces develop. But why is all this happening?

Why are we seeing this extreme coddling of the American mind? Well, it's because if people want to seize power and seize control, you need to make people think that they need help with everything, that they can't get over certain circumstances, that they belong in these categories of victimhood. And who's going to be the big sweeping Prince Charming that's going to come save them government? More policies, more restrictions, more. You can't say that you can't do this.

You can't look here. You can't do this because this person is upset. And so that is my that is my true fear. And people say, what are you fearful of? I'm fearful of government overreach. I'm fearful of looking up and seeing America run like a socialist country. I'm fearful of communism. I'm not fearful of being offended. Right. I'm not fearful of being victimized. I know that that that's that happens to everybody in their life.

And it's going to happen repeatedly. You're not done being victimized in your life, Meghan. I'm not done being victimized in my life. But it's not about how many times you're going to be victimized, about whether we're going to stay down and keep ourselves as victims and allow people to control us based on those fears.

Well, and it's like the more you get government involved, the worse things seem to go. And now and now, of course, it's beyond government. It's like every corporation in America that's making you go through critical race training or theory training and anti bias training. And some of these things, like the psychologists, if you look at psychology journals and so on, will tell you these things have exactly the opposite effect of the one that is intended, that if somebody has some latent racism that they would never act on otherwise, the more attention you bring to it, the more likely you are to act on it.

There's no there's no benefit in bringing it to the frontal lobe. But this is what this is what's happening anyway.

I, I think, you know, when I when I watched Uncle Tom by Larry Elder and you were in it when I read Thomas Sole, which everyone should do, he's been it's crazy how he's been ignored by so many historians or so many education institutions. Meanwhile, he's one of, if not the most prominent black scholar living in America right now. I I realize that there are serious problems with the welfare program that was put in place in the nineteen sixties.

And then it really did divide the black family, the white families too, but the black families in particular, to the point where things got flipped, it was, it was that seventy five percent of or even more, it was more like 80 percent of black families had two parents in them years ago and before that. And then post that, it's exactly the opposite. It's seventy five percent of black families don't have a father involved. And I think we can't talk about that.

It's another thing if you raise that kandice, you will you really will get blamed for for sort of blaming the victims. It's that that's not the problem, that it's that, you know, how is a child coming from that household supposed to fight systemic racism that just doesn't like black people? All right, and you're exactly right, and this is sort of what I always say, if the left is very good at is that they're good at linguistics, they're good at seizing the conversation and dressing it up as something else.

So when welfare was introduced, it was introduced as obviously Lyndon Baines Johnson. Obviously, it's incumbent upon white people to feel guilty and to realize that it's now the government's responsibility to step in and try to help black Americans as much as possible. Now, of course, we have 60 plus years of evidence to show that it hasn't helped black America at all to black America, people that go on welfare. There's no incentive for them to ever come off of welfare, that they're trying to learn tricks to be able to keep their welfare, incentivizing bad behavior, incentivizing black women not to marry the father of their children and to have multiple fathers of their children, not to have them living in the home.

And we know that children are worse off if they don't grow up in a two parent stable home. And that, unfortunately, is an epidemic. That is that black Americans have been facing for a very long time. And the reason why we're not allowed to have those discussions, because those choices that we're talking about, it's a very uncomfortable term to say personal responsibility, right. They hate black America. Actually, here are a lot of things are going bad in the black American community.

Right. Here are some basic things that we can do to fix it. Right. Not having children before you're married is one way to fix it. Having children grow up in a two parent home is another way to fix it. Do not turn to the government for handouts is another way to fix it. Stay out of trouble. Yet charter schools stay have trouble is another way to fix it. But when you start talking about personal responsibility, people accuse you of being a racist, right?

Because there needs to be somebody that you can blame. And unfortunately, this isn't a black it isn't the fault of black America solely. It's also the fault of white America. I place a lot of blame on white Americans and their guilt, and they're constantly being Koury being told. We need to apologize for telling basic truths that every white person should walk into the room where there's a black person and start with I'm sorry.

And then before exiting the room and with I'm sorry, I just thought this is a ridiculous person who people are listening to and people will do it.

People are crazy. You saw this. You're now seeing people join the Black Lives Matter thing that were going when they saw black Americans walk in the room, people that were cleaning and washing the feet of black Americans in Central Park in New York City. I mean, this is really crazy, deluded stuff that we're talking about. And so nothing's going to get better until white Americans have had enough. Right, because it's always going to be someone if you're dumb enough, that will take advantage of you.

If you're dumb enough to say, Kandace, I'm going to transfer all of my assets when I die to your family, am I going to say no, Megan?

No, because I'm white. You're black. Probably not. Right. Well, OK. Well, it's now gotten to the point where it's just fine to look at every white person. Doesn't matter who it is, every white person is a racist. That's it. Like there's a presupposition that you are racist. And if you don't acknowledge it, then that's racist and so on and so forth. But and then and then some people who challenge that will say, well, that's racist.

But but what it is racist. What these activists will say is white people cannot I mean, black people cannot be racist because racism requires discrimination plus power and that blacks do not have power. So they're incapable of racism. Blacks do not have power is a very, very, very funny sentence, blacks should not have power. And yet we just talked about critical race theory being introduced to schools. Blacks do not have power, but we are the only ones that get get get to benefit from these affirmative action structures where kids are not qualified or being allowed to take the place of the people that are qualified in the schools.

Blacks are not empowered, and yet we're seeing white Americans losing their jobs just because what we need to have a black face here as opposed to your face, blacks are not empowered. And yet if I accuse somebody of racism, even if there's no proof about it, that person will lose their job and their lives will be destroyed because that is how much power that word holds. So when people say black Americans don't have power, I have never seen black Americans with so much power in this country and yet still trying to call themselves victim victims, shuting white Americans up.

You cannot tell the truth in a room without being accused of calling or being accused of racism yourself. And that doesn't work the other way around. Black Americans can say things that are pointedly ridiculous and not lose their jobs, not lose their positions. Snoop Dogg posted something that if a white person had posted about a black person would have lost every sponsorship under the sun. It was an image of me, Dr. Ben Carson, Larry Elder, and called us the coon bunch.

Right. Did he lose his did he lose his sponsorships with Dunkin Donuts and all the other places that he held sponsorships with? No, because it was perfectly permissible because what black Americans are allowed to be outwardly racist. We have not seen the the news media harp hard enough on what we are seeing in the streets now. White Americans eating peacefully at restaurants, black Americans rushing them, Black Lives Matter activists, black people are getting racist in the air, but black people are also getting harassed.

I saw a woman in her car get harassed just the other day, and she was kind of like, you know what, I'm I'm with you, so get off my case.

But they wouldn't let her go through. I mean, it's just it's indiscriminate now that the BLM protests that are out there that have turned into.

Right. The Black Lives Matter, why are they allowed to do this right. And face no consequences and yet still have their names on buildings? One hundred percent. They're lifted up that they are lifted. Yes, they are empowered. The group is lifted up one hundred percent. So the idea that white Americans who are not even allowed to say all lives matter without losing their positions and jobs. Right. Are empowered. I just don't see it. You know, that's seen as a sort of a retort to the concept that Black Lives Matter and that has now been dismissed effectively as a racist thing to say.

I get I get that by that.

But one thing I wanted to ask you, because I do watch you I follow you on Twitter and I haven't I'm trying to think of a situation that you that you did think race was the issue. Like, is there an issue that you did see racism in, like the one with the shootings? No, just in general. Just in general. The one that that stuck out to me was, for lack of a better term, Central Park. Karen, you know, the woman who got in the face of the black bird watcher and she had this dust up.

And and I know C.J. Pearson, who's only 18 and he's a black conservative on Twitter, and even he was like, come on, Candice, because you defended her. And it got me thinking, like, does Candice Owens have anything that she finds discriminatory or racist against black people? Of course, there are examples of racism towards black people. The Central Park shrewish that you're talking about it, but remarkable to consider is imagine if the situation was flipped.

Imagine if a black girl was walking her puppy in the park and a white man came up to her and said, you need to put your dog on a leash. Your dog's not supposed to be here. Dog's not supposed to be here. And then said, I'm going to give something to your dog. And the girls are freaking out. All of America would have said that this girl was stalked and harassed by a white man in the park. That's so far so far.

We're on the same page completely. Yeah, I but I don't disagree and I'm not even with these radiation. But let me get to the point, because I agree with all that, that so far these are just two weird people having in New York encounter that we've seen a million. Right. Like it's a it's an odd city. It's it's a great city, but it's an old city. But the point at which the racism comes in is when she threatens to call the police and tell them that a black man is threatening her.

She says it a couple of times. She specifically mentions and I think it's a fair interpretation, she threatens to mention to the police that he's a black man. And to me that now they're you finally do have what to me seemed like a racist statement. And I think she deserved the blowback she got, although, I mean, her life's been ruined. I don't think that was appropriate.

I I think I think the punishment that she got did not fit the crime. Now, if you're saying she thought that saying pointing up the guy who was African-American was going to make the police come faster to her, sure. You can examine that. What I was getting at was that this this entire situation did not unfold because a racist white woman came into the park. It just isn't right. She got fired up because he said he was going to give something to her dog that she wasn't going to like.

I would have freaked out if I was with my good and someone said that wasn't good. And then she lost her. Right, and we're seeing this happen more and more again, where people are pushing people out of a limit, waiting for them to freak out and pretend that the entire situation happened because of race and it didn't happen because of race. Did she say something that she shouldn't have said? Yes, she shouldn't have said that she never needed to say.

I'm going to say an African-American man is is whatever in the park. She could have just said, listen, I'm going to call the police and I'm going to say that you're harassing me. And she did not need to introduce race into the equation in just a bit.

We'll have more with Candice Owens, who gets very personal and very frank about how Donald Trump changed her life forever. But first, now it's time for the feature we call asked and answered here at the Megan Kelly Show. We take a look at the questions that you've sent in and we answer one or two. And we've picked one today from Jane Martin. Steve was Jane have to say no.

So Jane is a she's a she's a longtime Democrat, has little respect for the party in its current form. So, Jane, thanks for listening. And her question to you, Meghan, is during one of your new podcast episodes, which she said she loved the first one, would you be willing to tell us a bit about how you've gotten yourself through the mobs, the cancer culture attacks? She says, I'm very curious about the most vulnerable moments, losing fans or knowing what was being broadcast about you while you know differently about yourself.

Well, thank you for that, Jane. Well, I would say I don't think I lost any fans as a result of my my ending at NBC. I think my fans know who I am and know exactly what went on there.

But it is not fun to read awful things about yourself in the papers or see them on on television. So as a general rule, I avoid that toxicity. I try not to take it in because they don't know me and they have an agenda. And there's no point in firing yourself in that because it's only going to make you feel bad, you know. So when when the storm hits and it's hit a lot over the past five years in my life, I hunker down with my loved ones, with my husband, Doug, with whom I'm really close.

We have a very strong marriage, which I am really proud of. It's one of my crowning achievements as a human and our kids who are, you know, they ground you. You know how that is. They ground you. And everything is like. Right. When you think some bullshit in your world matters, your kids come over and snuggle up next to you and hug you. And you're like, you know what, I'm good. I have a pretty high floor.

So that's in general how I approach that stuff. But something in your question triggered something that I've been wanting to say. You talked about, you know, most vulnerable moments. And there was something that was really frustrating to me after I left NBC, and that was the inability to say goodbye to my studio audience on that show, who I adored. They came every day. I had a huge set of regulars who I got to know very well.

And I fell in love with them. And I think it was mutual. You know, we just had a bond.

We'd hug all the time. We'd cry on the hard segments. They trusted me and I trusted them. And they totally had my back at the end of everything. There were so kind about it. And these are people of all different ages, different sexes, different races.

You know, they were just kind and loving. And I never got the chance to say goodbye. And I never I never got the ability to even round back with them on everything that had happened because I couldn't really talk about it. So I if they're out there, I want you to know I think about you all the time. I miss you. I miss our times together. I don't really miss my time inside that building. But I miss my audience there.

And I don't know. I hope we're reconnecting now. I hope my my old Fox audience in my old NBC audience are here that we've reunited without the middleman. You know, this is so much more direct and more authentic. That's the hope for this. And that's so far how I've been feeling about it. So anyway, and if you want to communicate with me, you can either I'm I'm sort of reading your stuff two different ways. I read it on Apple.

Like, if you go and you you write a review. And if I start reading that, I do read a lot of the reviews. But also for this segment, if you want a question answered, we read them all so you can email in at questions, plural questions at Devil May Care Media dot com.

Look forward to it. There's so much interesting stuff in your background, much of which you cover in your new book.

It's called Blackout. And I recommend it to all all of our listeners. I, I wanted to know more. I knew I know you grew up you grew up in Stamford, Connecticut, but you used to be a liberal, which I think a lot of people will find surprising. So what was it that made you a Republican? Yeah, so, I mean, I want to be clear, I was a liberal, but I was never a Democrat, so that's one of the lies that are out there about me.

Like Kennedy's switched parties, I was not politically inclined. And that is actually the case for the majority of black Americans. We're not engaged in politics. And yet, if you ask us, we sort of flippantly assume that because of our skin color, we have to be Democrats. We have to think liberally. And I just sort of believe the mainstream media nonsense. I sort of believe that Democrats had our best interests at heart, even though I had never voted.

I just thought that I sort of had to be a little because of the color of my skin, even though I was actually raised, which I go into in my book quite conservatively. And my grandparents were extremely conservative and I was raised on values of faith, on family and on hard work. And when I finally looked up and put two and two together and this happened with Donald Trump and the election cycle, this happened with me just being very confused as to why a man who I grew up hearing his name dropped and hip hop songs repeatedly, everyone wanted to be like Trump, Beyonce and Jay-Z had him in their songs.

They wanted to be sipping poolside at Mar a Lago. He was a symbol of status. He was celebrated. He was partying with Diddy, Puff Daddy, I think it was his name back in the day. And everybody loves him. And the second he announced he was running for the United States, they flipped the entire narrative and tried to say he was a racist. And it just forced me to think. And and when I started thinking and digging, I did not buy the narrative that Trump was an avowed racist white supremacist who wanted to send America back for hundred years.

And the thinking and seeing how the media was misconstruing everything that he said sort of led to my political. Aha. And so I think Trump is the person that really made me engage in politics. And once I actually became politically engaged, I realized everything the left was doing was just a hit job. It was smearing, it was libeling, and they just weren't being honest about the fact that they didn't want him to be president. But also, you cannot want someone to be president without smearing and labeling him.

And they refused. They were unwelcome.

It's been funny recently because, of course, they got all over him for not what they claimed was not explicitly denouncing white supremacy at the presidential debate. And then and you see people like Jim Acosta of CNN tweeting that out. He refuses yet again to denounce white supremacy. And then people, of course, dig up Acosta's and other reporters old tweets saying Trump specifically condemns white supremacy, the KKK, like he's done it so many times. But you would think from the Chris Wallace question and from the media's reaction to Trump's answer that night that he'd never done it.

And he's really trying to keep that contingent in his voting bloc. And it just it's not true. But you can't get through that. You can't get through the smoke and mirrors. It's it's hard. But wait. So can I ask you, because you people look at you in your tough. You are you're tough. You can fight any battle. I've seen you. It's like it's good stuff actually. When when you testified before Congress and people tried, there was a white woman who tried to shame you for something you'd done or said you were like, oh, no, you have been through it, though.

And when you were in high school, you you were the target of of a hate crime.

So how hard was that for you? Can you just tell us a little bit about it? And how hard was that for you? It was incredibly hard for me, it was it was easily the worst thing I've ever lived through, and it's because of my youth and because of my inexperience and because of the complication, the unnecessary, unnecessary complication of the narrative by the media, by the politicians, by NAACP who needed to force this as a racist issue, that these boys who had left these incredibly racist messages.

There's no question these messages that they left on my phone were racist. But because there was an obsession to label them all as racist, nobody sort of Doug and I talked about this in my first chapter for the more human narrative. And they forgot that we were a bunch of teenage kids, that we were all very young and they failed to see. The obvious point was that this kid who had led the ringleader of this racist attack was formally my best friend.

And he he did this because he was hurt that I stopped hanging out with him. And the only way he knew how to hurt a black girl in his very naive young mind was to bring up a bunch of people and have her have them call her the N-word repeatedly. Now, that doesn't mean that he was right. It doesn't remove responsibility, doesn't change the fact that what he did was racist. But does that make a person a racist for the rest of their lives?

And this is what I have what I have trouble with with the media is that there was this obsession with sort of just issuing a verdict that this person is one hundred percent racist because they said this. And that's wrong, especially when you're talking about the level of children. When children experiment with being mean and seeing what they can get away from, they're not emotionally mature, not emotionally developed. And we say awful things. Fortunately, I grew up in the land before Facebook and Twitter, so I don't remember half of the evil mean things that I said.

Right. They're not held somewhere on a Twitter feed from back in the day. But it is so problematic that we have the standard now for people to be perfect, even from the time that they're kids know 11 year olds, 12 year olds being called racist. You can't be a racist at 11 years old. You can be misguided. You can do racist things and say racist things. But to enter in that sort of a of a verdict on someone so young, it's wrong and it doesn't help the person.

As I was the victim of this. It doesn't help me and make me feel better when you go around calling me a victim. Right. So people were hurt on both sides of this and it was dealt with wrong by adults, in my opinion.

I mean, what I hear you talking about is the concept of grace. And it's it's just I think Dana Bash has a book called Grace Canceled. And it's just disappearing. It's people are complicated. And these are difficult issues, race, gender, all the changes, the sweeping changes that are coming through on these issues.

And there's no there's no leeway to people to try to figure it out. There's no willingness to openly engage without Name-Calling. It's just screw you. You're awful. End of discussion. And I mean, I think about me and my sisters when I was growing up, it was totally normal and fine to say that's gay. Like that's like that's wow, that's not was right all the time. That's gay. I say to my sister, oh, you're being gay.

Like, you know, you're being uncool. And then that suddenly changed and became not OK. And another sweeping of political correctness and it sort of became this attack on homophobia. And like I know I'm sorry. When I was six years old, I was not thinking of homophobia. I was not thinking of men and women having sex, having same sex, sex. And of course, could you imagine if back in the day I had a Twitter and I they that's that's really gay.

When I was going to say when I look at there's some similarity with the Metoo movement, because some of the behaviors that men have gotten in trouble for have been considered OK, or at least didn't cause a huge reaction since time immemorial. You know, like a man telling a woman she looks nice or she looks good in that dress or she's beautiful. I realized at the office today that would be like, oh, but that used to be no big deal.

I mean, I was a young woman in these law offices and in the early 90s and is a compliment, you know, might not have been the first thing I wanted to hear out of a partner's mouth, but I kind of let it go over you like water off a duck's back.

And then, you know, I think that the first big case in the media movement was probably what happened at FOX with Roger Ailes. And then a year later came Harvey Weinstein, which really kick things off. I I think some of the past behavior has now been demonized when it really was it was OK at the time. But I wouldn't put cases like Roger Ailes or Harvey Weinstein or Charlie Rose or Les Moonves in that category would you know, and that's why I came out and I was not in support of the Metoo movement.

And that was extremely controversial because you're a woman. How can you not support the hashtag Metoo movement? Because I think signing a blanket, everybody's guilty when every single case is different. There are little things that change the case. The Matt Lauer thing, I thought that that was that was one where I said, well, this is an interesting one. So you were right. But then proceeded to have an affair for months after with the person that raped you.

There is no nuance. There's no nuance when you blanket hashtag me too everything. And that's what I thought would be problematic. I believe in due process. Call me a crazy person. But even if it's one hundred percent true and it happened, I don't believe that we should blanket believe you without due process.

And I know I agree with that witch hunt and then I agree as I do process and I've been talking about that all along. And in all these cases there does. And and the people who just want to believe all women, people are nuts, that's insane. Women like we're humans. So we should not be believed in all in all circumstances. Hello, Julie Swanwick looking at you.

But I'll say just one word on the Matt Lauer accuser, who I know a little. And I think those relationships are very complicated. And I know a lot of people are like, why would you continue sleeping with him if it were a rape?

But No.

One, you can be considered legal rape. And even even she has said that she understands the legal distinction, but it can be considered a legal rape if the woman is too intoxicated or incapacitated to actually consent. And number two, you know, when you've got somebody, a star that big with a young assistant who has no power in the organization, it's a tough spot for the woman to navigate out of. It's really tough. Yeah, I mean, I've been an assistant before, so I'm I have been assistant at a private equity firm.

I've worked with all men. I understand the power dynamic. And I also know I was working within a system with a bunch of assistants that there are women who like to climb the ladder who are ambitious. So as I said, I think the nuance is important. And I think it's not fair to cast men as rapists because maybe a woman is feeling like she has to do it right. Well, he doesn't know that. And I just I don't I just think that there has not been enough new and I'm not a supporter of the me too.

Movement and personal relationships aside, I think some of these cases have gotten out of hand. And I have used my platform to say I don't believe I don't have I believe all women. I like to hashtag believe all facts. And apparently that's a controversial position these days. Well, I agree with you.

It should be evaluated on a case by case basis. And I think it's OK for people to say that one. I don't believe that's OK.

That's part of due process. That's part of your right as an American that we get into problems where it's, I believe everyone, period. It's like that makes no sense. OK, now everyone listening to you is wondering one thing. When is this woman going to run for office as she can't be president of the United States yet because she's only 31 years old? Thirty one. Yes.

So crazy. You're so young. But what do you think? I saw you tweet not long ago. I'm going to run for political office. Are you? You know, I thought about it very deeply when the nineteen outbreak happened, and I was shocked to see Republicans lose the plot when they were fearful back in February. And I was the only person saying, this is not adding up, this is wrong. And I was the only one saying, even if it's all true, you do not have a right to shut down American businesses and tell people where to walk when they can walk it just under no circumstances.

I mean, I truly believe in American freedom, even in times when we're fearful. I believe that you have a right to choose and decide if you want to stay in all day and not go to work and not make any money. And I have a right to choose if I say, you know what, making that last one thousand bucks and giving it to my family, even if I die, is worth it. I believe in personal freedoms and I was really taken aback to see so many people left and right just give up their freedoms so quickly when a little bit of fear got introduced and now everyone sort of come around the bend and Republicans are like, oh, well, you know, I think this is wrong, but it's a bit too late in my opinion.

They are blown up, right? It's been blown up. And I thought to myself, like, there should be there needs to be people that will fight even when the pressure's on. And I'm definitely a person that would fight when the is on. Now, in terms of actually winning the future, I used to always say no to that. Now I pretty much say what Trump said decades ago, which is that if I really felt my country needed me, I would do it.

I hope that we have people that will run instead and I will be like, these are great candidates, are strong candidates. But if I looked on the right and I thought that we were going to take steps backwards, if we had Mitt Romney running in twenty twenty four, I would run against a Mitt Romney. Right. So so I played.

You don't need you don't need my advice on anything. But I will say, because I'm a lot older than you are and I've been on the receiving end of a lot of nastiness, too, although I mean a number of death threats and so on is coming your way or just insane. I here's my one caution to you as you forge forward, whether it's as a politician or as a as an amazing pundit or, you know, just as brave, courageous woman who says what she thinks fight bitterness.

And this isn't based on anything I've seen in you at all. It's just I've seen it in other people, especially women who are as bold as you are because they get attacked so brutally and you're going against the grain on everything and everything. And so it's it's a dangerous position to be in. It's certainly courageous. But you they'll come at you so hard and so often there could be bitterness swelling up and then they've really won, you know, then they're really in your heads.

It's like then your bullies have totally won because they're not even outside bullying you. They're inside bullying you. And, you know, as as you become you are a mother and as you're about to give birth to your baby, who I guarantee you will soften any woman and then also make your mother bear in other ways where you will kill for this kid. It's just the thought that I wanted to share, because don't don't let them embitter you. I love that I think that's such great advice.

I love hearing that and that's one of the things that people who work for me and with me are always so surprised about, because the media isn't a really good job of hard hitting me because I'm always fighting. When you see me, I have to be a people. I'm in I'm in Congress and I'm being attacked down the line by witnesses and that never happens. But I mean, my husband are just so happy. And I think that being a happy warrior has always been something that I've wanted to be.

I have so much to be happy for. Like I said, I love my life. I love living in America. I love the freedoms I'm afforded. I don't have myself. One of the things I did eight months ago was take myself off of Google Alerts because I don't care. I'm not in the comments worried about what people are thinking of me. I'm telling you what I think. And I'm walking away. And I realize that I would say probably at the beginning of this year is not to place so much emphasis on what people think about you.

The most important thing is about what I think about myself and I had and the personal side, the most blessed three years of my life, being my husband, falling in love, about to give birth, which is the number one most important thing in my life is family. And it sucks that people don't get to see that side of me. But I think I've got some things in the pipeline where people will be able to see a little bit more of that.

I am really looking forward to it. And I will say, just for whatever it's worth, my first maybe two months of motherhood with all three of my kids was hideous. It was horrible. So hard. You know, your nipples hurt. Sorry, guys, and that's just rough.

And you're like, oh, my God, I blew up my life. What? I thought I'd be better mother than this. And by the way, nobody tells you that. Like everybody's like I always thought I pictured in my head. I'd be like the lady in the Breck commercial. I'm now I'm dating myself in the 70s with, like, the flowing hair in the white dress and, like, perfectly made up on the couch.

Wrong, wrong. And so if that happens, you can't as you just remember, that's normal. And the awesome period where you love being a mother will come sooner rather than with it, the one and only can.

So is everybody great to talk to you? She was amazing and it's also Friday, so good news all around, it's been another great week. I hope you enjoyed the podcast that we put out and that you'll stay tuned for next week where we've got some fiery shows coming up. If you like the podcast, do me a favor and subscribe to it and download. You got to do those two things and also read it.

You see, it's very easy to read, just like click on the star and end up only five star. Or you can do something else if you feel that you don't need to read it at all. And also you can do a review, which I'm really enjoying. I have been reading them. They've been so sweet. It's fun when people reference memories that we had on the Kelly File or on NBC and I don't know. I'm loving this great review, download, subscribe.

Have an awesome weekend. Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No bias, no agenda and no fear. The Megan Kelly Show is a devil may care media production in collaboration with Red Seat Ventures.