Welcome to the Megyn Kelly Show your home for open, honest and provocative conversations. Hey, everyone, I'm Megan Kelly. Welcome to The Megan Kelly Show today on the program. Jerry Springer, he is fascinating, way more so than you even knew.

This is a guy who was brought to the United States by his German Jewish parents in 1949 and has an incredible story of incredible life story. Incredible story in New York Harbor under Lady Liberty as he arrived here and all the goodness that happened in his life thereafter. You may not know he's a lawyer. He was a mayor. He worked for Bobby Kennedy.

He was a very successful news anchor, starred on Broadway, hosted game shows Dancing with the Stars, America's Got Talent to CDs, a radio show.

He's got a podcast. I mean, I could go on, but the guy has seen incredible success over the course of his life and I think has a real understanding of what this country is. We don't line up exactly politically, but who cares, right? Who cares? We got to talk to people who might not be on our side of the aisle.

And I think he and I exemplify that in this interview, which I know you're going to love. So to Jerry Springer in one sec.

But first, the more you do online, like all the gift giving and the banking and the browsing, the more you expose your personal information that makes you vulnerable to thieves, cyber criminals. They're out there just waiting for you to make a mistake. Now's the time to think about your cybersecurity right now.

It genuinely is as the year closes out with all in one protection, the all in one protection of Norton 360 with LifeLock. This is the easy way to keep your busy digital life safer. In one place, you get powerful protection for your devices, your laptop, your your tablets, your phone. You get a VPN for your online privacy and LifeLock identity theft protection that alerts you to potential identity threats. No one can prevent all cybercrime and identity theft or monitor every transaction at every business.

But Norton 360 with LifeLock can help keep your holidays happy with powerful protection against cyber criminals. You can save twenty five percent or more off your first year at Norton Dotcom. That's Norten Dotcom MGK to save twenty five percent off to it now.

Thanks for having me on, and I mean, for me, it's really exciting talking with you. Oh, well, it sounds like I'm saying I'm really a big fan, but actually I am. So although our politics may be a little different. But other than that, you're really good. You're really good.

Thank you. I thought I thought that. But was going to go someplace else like but I actually don't like you at all but no, no, no.

I like what you said. I almost all my friends are liberals. I'm not a liberal. I'm not really a conservative either. But I hate that we've gotten to this place in the country where people are assuming that's impossible.

Now, I agree with that.

I agree. But I think that is just exacerbated by modern technology. I don't think people all of a sudden became political. I mean, throughout history, there've been lots of moments and even generations which were highly political. Certainly my generation in the 60s was so that that is a new but nowadays, suddenly everyone is a journalist who has an iPhone and and there you go. And with the social media, all of a sudden your opinion becomes part of a movement and then everyone lines up.

And of course, cable news has done that as well, whether it's FOX or MSNBC. And I understand it, I guess because, you know, everyone likes to be around people that agree with them. You know, it's just you don't want every town because it's it's why people got scared at Thanksgiving, because it used to be, at least in the last few years with Thanksgiving in virtually every family, was really difficult because it was always someone in your family that had the opposing point of view.

And all of a sudden it became a political argument. And, you know, there was one year where they didn't even give me the turkey ball. And so I always got nervous around Thanksgiving because of that. But I think now, because of that, we line up in camps. You know, I think there's a sorting process going on is that I do think there's a difference between the political parties in this way. I think people and this is I understand the generalization, but I think people that are Republicans or Republicans first, in other words, it almost doesn't matter who their candidate is, their loyalty is to to the Republican Party.

Now it's being translated into being champions. But the truth is, whoever the Republican candidate was, all those people would be voting to trump Democrats or something else first before they ever become Democrats. In other words, there is a coalition of interest groups. So your maybe your African-American, maybe your labor, maybe you're part of a group that the environment is the major issue. Or so you've got this coalition of varying interests that from the Democratic point of view, hopefully can coalesce at the time of an election and present a unified front.

Republicans don't have that problem. It's a static kind of. I'm a Republican. I was raised a Republican. And and I think that's why it's all of a sudden becoming very difficult when let's say during the Trump era, when people were saying, at least when I talk to my Republican friends, Republican acquaintances, any time I have a discussion, the word. But if you talk about Trump, the word but was always part of the sentence, yeah, I know what he's like.

And yeah, he exaggerates or sometimes doesn't tell the truth or whatever it is. But but I like the fact that my taxes went down or I like the fact that he's the anti immigration or whatever. There was always that. But and with Democrats there's really not a but it's that it's a more comfortable party for whatever their group is. But their loyalty is not to vote for a Democrat no matter what happens. Because I was raised in the with the 60s, the Democratic Party turned on Lyndon Johnson, the president of our own party, and challenged him with McCarthy and Bobby Kennedy, etc.

. So, you know, that was the first example in my lifetime of not necessarily staying loyal to your party because that wasn't the most important thing going for you. I find much more loyalty in the Republican Party, and I think that's part of why we have this incredible division right now.

Well, that's interesting. I feel like I, I feel like what we see on the left more and more is is allegiance to identity politics. Not from the what I refer to is just the liberal left, but the far left has made Wolke is a religion that must dictate one's vote. And if one doesn't support. Drive to his hardcore identity politics, one must be denounced as a bigot, one must not vote for one's pocketbook issues when there are these other capital Capitolio, big capital be issues capital, ie, looming out there.

That is true. I don't deny that is the case. But that goes to the point I guess I was trying to make, is that there is a loyalty to something else first. And for example, for me in my loyalty this time, boys and I had nothing personal against Donald Trump. I just I met him on a few occasions. I worked for him when I was the host of the Miss Universe pageant back in 2008 and in Vietnam. So I have nothing personal against Donald Trump.

I thought he was an outsized personality or whatever. And but I never, never dawned on me that he was interested in going into politics. And so that became a I really was. Oh, my gosh, we can't have him for president. And the reason I for me, my where I'm an immigrant know my whole family came over from Germany and I lost my family in the Holocaust. So immigration has always been a key issue. And I didn't think and this is my my personal partisanship.

I didn't think I don't think he understands what America really is, that America is an idea. We are the only nation in the history of the world to have been created by an idea. Every other country in the world throughout history starts out maybe as a tribe, as a religion, as an ethnic group. They then get a little more land. All of a sudden they want to have a country and they start a war to protect it, and then they establish a goal.

That is how every country starts except America. America was first an idea and then around that idea after the revolution, let's have put together a constitution and form the government of where you govern by the consent of the governed. That is an idea. And the idea was as articulated in the Declaration of Independence. All men are created equal and men now obviously more than just men. But the concept was we are all human beings and we weren't there yet.

Obviously not with a slave being three fifths of a human being. We weren't there yet. But that was the goal. That was our civic religion. When you said before that it's almost like a religious calling that some of the people on the far left to that extent on some issues, it is religious, it's a civil religion. And that idea is when we salute the flag, when we tear up in the seventh inning stretch singing God Bless America.

That is, it's not the piece of land. Every country has some beautiful scenery and military heroes and what have you. But what what America is at least that was the initial understanding certainly to to immigrants is that, wow, this is a place where it doesn't matter where you're from or whether you how you believe in God, you know, what your religion is, what whatever your ideas are. You're welcome here. The Statue of Liberty is the manifestation of that one hundred years later from the revolution.

But it's that America is something special. And if you attack that idea from day one. It's like, whoa, then what are we sending our young men and women to fight and die for?

So let me ask you that, because as as you know and you're talking about Trump's policies on immigration, but what we're seeing now in the wake of this summer of protests and riots is people on the streets literally saying this idea is over.

This experiment of America needs to end. There is true hatred being expressed for our country.

And, you know, you seeing the football players kneel during the national anthem, some want to call attention to police brutality.

Others think America is an awful place. And what scares me is that's spreading. You know, they're not even saying the pledge in school anymore. It's controversial to put an American flag in the background of a live shot the flag.

OK, I understand that. I understand what you're saying and agree with what you're saying. But I think I'm adding to that, though, that although I obviously I stand for the flag, I would do the Pledge of Allegiance. I desperately believe in America and all that. I think what you're seeing some people on the extremes that they are so upset because America has isn't living up, at least in their lives if they're African-American, for example, which it's pretty hard to argue against their notion that what we say America is doesn't really reflect in their everyday lives, that it really and I don't think we fully understand it.

I mean, we we we're starting to understand it. We see what the anger is about. But at some point, this has been festering for hundreds of years, certainly since the since the civil war. And it's like there's still second class citizens and their lives are, whether you're talking about that, the neighborhoods, the schools, the housing, the health care, the opportunities, the income disparity. I mean, all of this stuff, they're not all lying.

It isn't like someone made this up well, but they're not all saying it either.

Well, I'm sure they're not know because the black community as though it's uniform and there are a lot of really smart heterodox voices within the black community saying they don't buy that narrative at all, that they do believe in America and they do believe, well, we're not perfect.

You know, we're the only country that's fought a war to end slavery. We're in within a hundred years of doing so, we passed the civil rights laws and that there is opportunity in this country as proven by people like Barack Obama. Right. Oprah Winfrey, Clarence Thomas, to rise to the very top of industry.

Yeah, but the real test is going to be I'm not arguing with you there. Yes, there. Sure. It's not monolithic, but there's a reason. My guess is there is a reason why. Ninety five percent of African-Americans or that 92 percent. But, you know, I'm talking about the vast, vast, vast majority of African Americans vote on the Democratic ticket, not because they're diehard Democrats, but because they they don't see they don't see that we're we're really concerned about that issue unless there's a disturbance.

What can I ask you something there. I know you, unlike most people out there, understand the working class of America. And I think that's that's very largely driven by socioeconomic status. And I think, you know, when I was growing up, I was a Democrat.

My family were Democrats. I wasn't really partisan. They weren't really political either. But, you know, you had to be one or the other.

And my nana, my nana, who was born in 1915, used to say Republicans, that's for rich people.

What Democrats? Because we didn't have any money. And I think there is still maybe less, though, these days, a knee jerk instinct to say if you don't have money, you're a Democrat because the Democrats are for you, given their relationship with labor and so on.

But I think it's changing not only the working class going for Trump in some of these, you know, in Appalachia and in the Rust Belt in 2016.

But he even increased his share of the black vote. It wasn't by huge margins this time around, but he sure did in the Latino vote.

And a lot of folks said that came down to socioeconomic issues they want they trusted him to improve their pocketbook.

There's no question about that. Are obviously people that voted for him thought that he would improve their lives more? Yeah, that's true. But I'm just saying the vast majority people that are let's say this, people who. Of a group just for a second, I'll talk groups that are in a group that by and large initially well, you even now looked at the women's vote or whatever group that they thought were getting a fair shake by or by the by the government, which does basically reflect the interests of, at least socioeconomically, people like me.

I mean, you know, they're giving me this incredible tax break, which is insane, insane when we have all these real needs right now of of people and not just because of the pandemic, just in general, real needs of of people at the lower end of the economic scale or even the middle class that need some help. In other words, they see the government as representing wealthy, powerful interests, which is true. I mean, it does mostly represent that on both sides that I agree with you on that.

But I think it's true. Both sides. Yeah.

Yeah. Because these politicians want to be re-elected, so they rationalize how it starts out. Let's say they originally go into politics for a nice reason. They want to help people. They want to make the country better. But then once they're in, they kind of enjoy their life. And being in Congress will be a senator. And it's not a bad way to live. And the prestige and all of that and then comes up the next election and suddenly they're 40 years old, 50 years old.

And if they lose the next election, that really disrupts their life. And so all of a sudden they rationalize and the rationalization is, well, I'm willing to bend a little bit here because if I don't get re-elected, I can't do the good that I originally came in and wanted to do. So that's how the the intellectual corruption starts. Not I'm not talking about the problems like the corruption when you're getting paid off, but just in general, they start rationalizing and it's intellectually dishonest.

And that's why people then get really upset with government. So we're talking about people on the edges. Yeah. If someone's throwing a rock through a window. But let's be honest, the number of people that were actually doing that compared to the 80 something million people who voted for who voted against Trump and notice I'm saying voted against Trump more than necessarily voted for a Democrat, that most overwhelmingly most of them went to watch the Windows show, just like I shouldn't say, if the Republican Party is all white supremacist, neither should we say that, oh, all these riots, because you want to look at the 1960s, we burned down cities.

I don't mean a block. I mean we burned down cities. We burned draft cards. We had I mean, the country was an armed camp, the Democratic Convention in Chicago. I mean, there was just so much by the assassinations of Martin Luther King, Bobby. And it just the whole year was it was that 1968 was unbelievable. So, yeah, there is on the extremes, but in the middle, I understand why some of these quote groups, whether it's women, whether it's African-Americans, Hispanics, Muslims, labor, working class people, why these people often find or mostly find a home in the Democratic Party.

Because other than and I would say other than pro choice, there is no litmus test to be a Democrat. And that's why the Democratic Party has so much trouble. Once they get elected, they you know, we're not a we don't like organized political parties. We're Democrats. What's his name said that one.

But I would say that I mean, just knowing what I know about the other side, I would say they're much more in favor of personal responsibility. They want government to get out of the way, not to make the way. They want less regulation to open up the economy, let it rip, which has which happened under Trump. It happened prior to covid. And so they're what they want is opportunity.

And that's one of the reasons why his crackdown on illegal immigration to go back to your first point was popular with the working class.

They were saying, I don't want people who are here illegally to take my jobs. That's one of the reasons people believe that Trump did so well with Latinos down in Texas because they understood how important legal immigration is to the country and how damaging illegal immigration can be and how important it is to stand up against it for the people who are already here and maybe struggling.

Should we? I understand that's what they say. I understand what you say, and in some cases, I don't think there's any question for some individual people that is that's true, but for the vast, vast, vast number of people in America. How how many, honestly, if you're in a room alone with God and you have to tell the truth or your life, so for, you know, how many really go to sleep every night and saying, my life is horrible because of the immigrant came into this country.

I mean, Jerry, you got to go spend some time on the southern border and those numbers go way up.

Well, I do. I do. It's more so there it is. More so. But it's not it's not overwhelming. I think it's basically because the people up here. Well, I'm in Florida. That's where I live. But anyway, when I'm up north, you know, people there complain about immigration and that never comes up that they took my job because the people I'm talking to have a very nice job or whatever kind of a job their police officers live with.

But they're not losing their job because of that.

And they have their jobs, but they're worried about the security threat. I mean, they're also worried about the security threat because they're what they're arguing. No one's arguing against illegal immigration. Well, some people are. Some people are. The cultures of the world aren't really in favor of that either. But the core Republican Party talks about illegal immigration and how to crack down on it.

And even under Obama, you know, he deported more illegal immigrants and unlawful immigrants than then President Trump did.

And I'm not I'm I'm not proud of that. But clearly, you know, there's a racial context for many of the people of why they're gone.

Why should we just open up the border and let a bunch of illegal enter entrants come in?

That's not the alternative, though. The alternative that that's setting up a straw man. I can't think the the parameters, but that's not yet. But that isn't the that isn't the choice. The choice is. Yes, let's have legal immigration, but let's have let's have enough judges on the border or lawyers on the border so that when someone applies to get in, let's make let let them be able to go through the process. Let's not kick out children that have lived there 15 years in this country.

And moms, they snuck over the border to get a life for their children. Who knows what their circumstances would? I don't know a single parent that wouldn't do everything in their power, everything to make sure that their kids got to live and if they could get across the border. I understand the human emotion of trying to get there. So if what I'm saying protect the borders, but I'm saying also have a process. When these people come up and ask for being able to come into this country that there's a process there.

I would take for example, I would hire 10000 if necessary, whatever that was a graduate of law school to give one year. And maybe we wind up helping with their tuition of law school, but for one year to set them up on the border so that we would have a court system. We're just dealing with immigration and then we'll find out who's legal gets to come in or go through the process, who's not. We are not going to put in.

But I mean, I'm all for taking a hard look at asylum claims. You know, I'm in danger where I am and I need help. That's one thing. But trying to sneak across the border and then and then get the rights that others who came before you from from the border waited in line for and worked for and studied to achieve, that's not OK. And so for sure, we could be doing it better. But I think, you know, one of the things that some Democrats want, even Joe Biden wants amnesty for the existing 11, 12 people who are of 12 million people who are here undocumented.

Now, that's not right. That's not fair to the people who did it by the book.

Well, the process now is literally the process is different in different countries. But in most of these countries, and I certainly know it was true during the time of Nazi Germany when my parents were trying to get out. I mean, most of my family didn't, but mom and dad finally did. But the people that did get out, there was all kinds of stuff going on to get up on the list. Who did you know? Could you pay some money to get up there?

And, you know, parents would do whatever they could to to save the life of of themselves and their children, you know, and that is such a human that, you know, putting the politics aside, who doesn't feel for that? Now, I understand that today they would be asylum seekers.

We know where the virus came from. But do you know where your mask came from? You should.

The PPE shortage that we faced as a nation was due to the outsourcing of American manufacturing to China. Founder Lloyd Armbrust started his company to start bringing back. Manufacturing to the U.S. and to ensure this never happens again. The company produces both the materials and the masks in its Texas factory. How about that? If we don't want our country to shut down, we have to mask up. And not all masks are up to the task. Unlike cloth masks, gaiters or bandanas and the nonmedical masks, Armbrust USA surgical masks are FDA listed and are independently certified to have ASTM Level three filtration exceeding the highest safety standards.

Now what is ASTM Level three ME American Society for Testing and Materials. It goes level one, two and three. Level three is the toughest, like the best, and this exceeds the highest safety standards. So this is a good mask better than most. And that means the masks that are used by heart surgeons in the E.R. and by frontline workers are now available to protect you and your family. These things are triple layered, but they're still breathable and lightweight.

That's key for me. They have a secure fit to wear protection. They have an electrostatic defense shield for filtration, FDA listed and again, ASTM level three certified, hypoallergenic and most importantly, made in America. Go to don't shut down, mask up dotcom and enter the coupon code. Make a check out for a 20 percent discount on your order. Again, follow with me. Don't shut down Mascotte Dotcom. That's a good one. Don't shut down Maska Dotcom again make.

Back to the point I was making at the top, which is I do think you have an understanding of the working class in a way most Americans do not. And I heard it from you a few years back. You were celebrating the 25th year anniversary of your show. You were in a tuxedo. You got a little emotional. It was actually really sweet. And we're going to play the clip. Here it is.

But what I've learned over our quarter century of shows is that deep down, we are all alike. Some of us just dress better or had a better education or better luck than the gene pool of parents. I'll say it again. Deep down, we are all the same. We all want to be happy. We cry when we're hurt. We're angry when we've been mistreated. And to be liked, accepted and respected, not to mention loved is the greatest gift of all.

Yes, we're all alike. Know this. There's never been a moment in the twenty five years of doing this show that I ever thought I was better than the people who appear on our stage. I'm not better. Only lucky. So thanks for the twenty five years we've signed on to do a whole bunch more, and as long as I stay healthy, we will. And on that note, take care of yourself and your.

What I love about that clip is, number one, a theme I've seen in you, which is humility, and number two, a willingness to understand we have more in common than we do that separates us and end to just sort of look at people for their humanity as opposed to with judgment. There's so much judgment today, isn't there?

Yes, there absolutely is. And I think a lot of the judgment and this really is on both sides, it's it's almost as if I don't know, politics has become a sport because it's covered at a sport. It's covered as a contest. And everyone you're rooting for one team with the other and the team that line up with you starts to define you, who you are. And I know when Democrats say, oh, that's a Trumpy, and I know they have the absolute image of what that person is.

And when Republicans will say, oh, that's a liberal Democrat or a lefty, lower the lib. Yes, lib, they immediately have to have that image. So I 100 percent agree with you. There is that. And I think I think it's kind of inevitable because of our culture today, the technology today, where it's it's so easy to to line up with one side or the other. And then because everyone likes to find people who agree with them, they keep going to those same websites.

They keep watching the same cable news. They keep. You know, it's just it gets all of a sudden you become a fanatical supporter of that side. The making of my wife and I wear it was a week before the election. And by the way, this happens on both sides. I'm not picking on Republicans here, but we were standing there in Sarasota. There's a there's a major road. And traditionally people stand there with their signs, waving the signs.

And, you know, Mickey is the most private person in the world. And it's very political but doesn't you know, she's not up front like I am. But anyway, we had our all the signs said was Biden Harris. And we stand along the road with a couple of hundred other people that were standing there. This was a Biden group. And these cars would come by giving us the finger and making and we're saying, why are you like our our side didn't say Trump's an idiot.

We hate Trump, you know, whatever. And it was so depressing. You know, America, let's just go home. Yeah, I know.

I know. I know. Cause and we don't see it. Both sides.

Yeah, I know. I like you aspire to see a country in which we lean in to our better angels. But I think I agree with you that the Internet, while it's done so much good, I feel like it's No. One harm is the damage it's done to human relationships and intimacy. But this is a this is a related problem where it's made us so tribal. It's made us just committed to confirmation bias, less open minded, even though we have more access to more information.

Let me tell you. So instead of watching cable, they should have been watching The Springer Show, as so many people were for twenty seven years. The show just ended eighteen after almost thirty years.

And I was like, what do you mean? What do you say? Stop it.

Well, look, I mean, the show had no redeeming social value and but it was fun. It was it was fun to do and it was crazy. And and I realized over time that no matter how much people would complain about it, they obviously watched it. Otherwise they wouldn't know what they were complaining. It was what you know, it was one of those guilty pleasures or whatever it was.

What did people love about it? What did people love about it?

Well, at first the shock, because they never seen behavior like that on television, American television up until the night in the early 90s. In fact, about the time that our show came along, American television was almost exclusively upper middle class white, whether it was the sign for Sonnenfeld or friends or whatever the shows were at the time, they were always well scrubbed, upper middle class white people. And if you were African-American, you it was either on one of the side channels or you had to be a doctor or like Cosby was.

But it was even the newscasts where all white. And then when they started to have one anchor be a black person, they had to speak with. The upper middle class white accent and language, it was just all that long came our show and for the first time on major networks, you saw every day people who didn't speak the queen's English, who weren't white, middle class, who weren't well scrubbed. And it wasn't that they had never seen behavior like that because that is absolutely false.

We had miss you know, when we we had Hitler and no one had a television set. So it isn't like television created bad behavior. That's absurd. But what it did do, we were shocked that where we used to have our sitcoms were husband and wife would sleep in separate beds. I Love Lucy or whatever, or The Donna Reed Show or that. All of a sudden we saw this language which was bleeped out, but they knew what the words were, this misbehavior, this, because everything that was ever on our show is already in the Bible, in Shakespeare, in great literature.

So there was nothing new. It was the medium in which it was shown.

I look at it and it's like, OK, so there were there were all those shows. Did you point out Cosby friends, etc.. And then along comes Springer with you slept with my stripper sister.

And I was the guardian was it was wasn't that great. Wasn't that it wasn't that I didn't see it.

I didn't see it. But I love the title. So The Guardian writes this about the show.

In the last twenty five years, The Jerry Springer Show has delivered more on air fights, ranting white supremacists, adulterers, strippers and transphobia than anything else on television. It's an undeniable phenomenon, a game changer that turned daytime television into an entirely different, somewhat terrifying place. What do you think of that review?

Well, well, it's accurate and it wasn't intended. You know how it all how it all came about is I was anchoring the news for ten years in Cincinnati for the NBC affiliate, and we were pretty dominant in the ratings. But the company that owned US multimedia, they also own talk shows. They own Phil Donahue, Sally Jessy Raphael, a bunch of others. And in fact, I think they also had Rush Limbaugh's. Television, he had a television show for a while, and so they had various talk shows and one day they took me to lunch and said that Phil Donahue was retiring.

And we're going to start another talk show. And you're the host. So I was assigned to it. This wasn't anything I. I hadn't seen. You know, I had a job like a lot of people did. And during the day until I wasn't, you know, I didn't know much about talk shows at all.

They just decide you are an award winning evening news anchor at the time of.

Yeah, it went well, you know, but yeah. Yeah, we did. And but anyway, so I enjoy doing the news. And because particularly in Cincinnati, they initially when I finished being mayor, NBC offered me the job to anchor, but I had no interest in being a news anchor. I wanted to do political commentary. So the deal we made was that I could do the news every night. I did the news at five thirty six and 11.

But at the end of the 11:00 newscast, I would get two minutes to do my own commentary and which at that time was. Real, I mean, it is amazing that the network that the station let me do that, because up to then stations had editorials, but they were always by the general manager, station manager or whatever. It wasn't by the person who delivered the news. So I had to put on a different hat. And I really worked hard to make sure I always succeeded at it.

But I really worked hard that when I did the news, I did it without raising my eyebrow, without any asides. In other words, because it was Reagan was president when I started in 82. So there was never any anti Reagan stuff when I was doing the news. And a lot of times it wasn't political when I did my commentary, but that's when I gave my view and or on what was going on, something about like the commentaries I had to at the end of the crazy show.

That's where the final thought came from. And so I was doing the news. But how I got the talk show was because we were doing so well in the ratings, they said, you're going to do the show. I said, I didn't want to give up the news. And they said, you can do both. So in the beginning, for the first two years, I would get up in the morning in Cincinnati, fly to Chicago, where I do the talk show, fly back in the afternoon to Cincinnati, because I did the news that, as I said, five thirty six and 11.

So but after two years or a year and a half, actually, it got exhausting. And so and so I that's when I said, well I'll do the show, just the show. But the show was serious in the beginning. You know, we had serious people on. It wasn't the crazy show it became. It's one day, about three years in, we did a show on the Ku Klux Klan and and a fight broke out on stage.

And then people in the audience charged. And then it became basically a riot. We had no security because whoever heard of a fight on television and the next day we did. But I we honestly thought that's the end of my career. We're done. And I honestly thought that I was this weekend and but they kept going the opposite way.

Can I ask you so this is the the show started in 91. So this is still the early to mid 90s. I'm just curious at this point, were you married? Were you with Mickey or like where you going through this like this shift from news anchor to talk show host with a support in your life?

Yes. But here's here's here's the lovely thing about it. About twenty two years into the show, we're now doing the show by the twenty second year we were doing the show in Stamford, Connecticut. And in the middle of the show, the producer called me over and says, Oh, Mickey, Mickey, cool. Well, Mickey never called me, you know, during the show or something like that during the day. So I said, Oh my God.

So I run to the phone. I say, Honey, what's wrong? She said, Oh, my God. I said, What? She says, she took off her blouse. I said, What are you talking about? She said, I just saw your show. Is this what people are screaming about? And I said, What, are you married to me now? We've been married forty seven years, but you never even watched. Like she was like, oh my gosh.

She says that's a good thing. It's crazy.

I said, Honey, do you like your you like our house if this is how you got it. Yeah. Yeah.

Well in my mind I was thinking that. But you don't stay married forty seven years by saying that.

That's a good point. That's a good point. Some thoughts are better left unsaid. So what, what about it. Because I want to of course I forgive me for asking the question everybody asks, but I do want to know, is there one that stands out to you as particularly nutty?

Well, pure nutty was the guy who married his horse. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I want you to know I came out against it, so it's like I don't have, you know, don't I don't have values as a family.

But I was actually a guy who wanted to be rappers. It was that like a setup. Yeah, well it was in the newspaper. He lived outside of Branson, Missouri, in a rural area. And so and people knew that and they had a little ceremony there. And so. Oh, God, when the show contacted I guess. But anyway, oh, I should tell you on this story, which some relevance is, I'm never allowed to know the subject of the show.

I'm not allowed to know anything about it. All they do is, is when I go out there, they hand me a card and the card or the card has on it or the names of the guests because I haven't met them. So that's why the start of every segment on the show is me saying I introduce the names and then I say, so what's going on? And then they start telling me their story. And I'm supposed to ask questions that you would ask sitting at home watching and then make some jokes.

So basically, I was paid to ask questions and then to make some comment about a joke about it. So but I never knew what the subject was. So this particular show I saw, I forget the guy's name, let's say was Bob. I say, please welcome back to the show, Bob. So what's going on? And he was about, I'd say, about a forty five year old man and he's sitting on a chair on stage.

And I said, Bob, what's going on? He says, well, I'm having trouble with the neighbors or what's what's wrong? What's what's the trouble? They don't seem to like my wife. Well, why wouldn't they like your wife as she cause trouble? No, she's quiet. She keeps to herself. Well, I can see this is going nowhere. So I look at the car and I look at the next thing I say, OK, let's bring out your wife outcomes.

This horse, the crowd goes crazy. Now, I as what I would argue, a reasonably normal person said, oh, my God, stop the cameras because I'm assuming his wife fell off the horse. So it dawned on me that the horse, like the producer, is waving his arms.

No, now that is what. And then we take it from there. And it was really weird.

Is it a good look at her? Because she was adorable, but it's a little long in the tooth.

That's right. Yeah.

Yes. No, I said, why the long face. Yeah. So, so. But every time I stood between Bob and Pixel Pixel with her head with just kind of nudged me out of the way. She wanted to keep Bob in the line of sight. It was just, just crazy. And after a few years later I do the national tour of The Price is Right, the live show in casinos and theaters around the country. And we did some shows in Branson, Missouri.

And one contestant that came up and, you know, I always talk to them first before they play the games. And she says, you know, our town is famous on your show. And I called to tell me about that and says, well, we have someone here who was on your show. His name was and I didn't remember the name, but he was the fellow who married his horse. And the crowd goes crazy. And I say, yes.

And she said, yeah, he lives. It's about thirty miles up the road here. And so, yeah, that's that's the most that's the craziest we ever had.

Well, I got to I my number one takeaway is my producers are phoning it in on this show.

I we got to have a serious heart to heart after this is over. So but the truth is who a who could tear their eyes away when watching that. And B, this is why people would criticize the show. Right. I mean, Bernie Goldberg, he said you were screwing up America. And, you know, that's, of course, what people say about the show.

It's just it's the it's the dregs of society and it appeals to our worst instincts. And I know you said you didn't watch your show, but do you think overall, on balance, it was a force for good?

Probably not, other than if there is good.

First of all, the show was put on purely for entertainment. And I agreed to host the show. And I'm not allowed under the contract. I'm not allowed to know what the show is about, so I can't then it was supposed to be dysfunctional behavior. I held it or people or people outside the mainstream. That was the concept of the show. And I agreed to when they signed me up, I agreed to host the show. And we've had all kinds of people on the show that are dysfunctional.

So when somebody for example, if I was doing a basketball show, one of the sports channels, and every day I'd have basketball players on, that wouldn't be strange. Well, if you're doing a show about dysfunctional behavior, obviously you're going to have dysfunctional people on it. If you're doing it, if you have a show about, you know, serial killers, that's what you're going to have on every day. So I was never shocked at how do you have these people on?

Well, that's what the show is about. Now, if there is any good to be gleaned from it other than, look, the show was aimed at high school and college age kids. I mean, let's face it, that was mainly the audience, college aged audience, the. Studio audience, we're all college kids, and so, yeah, if I were in college, of course, I would watch the show, I'd be laughing. And do you know, it just was a crazy college kid.

But, you know, as a seventy now. Seventy seven year old man, I'm not, you know. No, I'm not. I wouldn't watch a show like that. I mean, that has no particular interest. This is crazy. And then I'd move on.

What did it teach you about human nature. Kind of what I said in that thing you ran is that we really are all alike. Some of us just dress better.

I really like that. I married a human I, I don't see anything in common.

Well, no, but but my guess is he wants to be happy. My guess is if he's angry, he'll sometimes even curse. You know, I'm sure. Pray God obviously not. He's not a violent person. So that obviously is beyond the pale. But here's the example I give and I've given in other interviews, I guess is when if a professor of English at Harvard comes home one night and sees his wife in bed with the next door neighbor or whoever, he is not going to say, forsooth, my dear, what it is that I have found, he's going to grab the bite guy, probably start cursing physically, throw him out of the house, maybe throw something.

He's so angry, in other words. We human beings react at all different with all different ways in all different manners. So when people come on our show to talk about something that is going on dysfunctionally in their own life. We're seeing them at that moment, but that very same not, let's say not well, even the guy who married his horse, he could otherwise be an absolutely. Warm person, you know, he could be polite, he you know, he probably has a job, goes to work, the people in the town obviously knew him.

Now, this Christmas party is weird, but. Yeah, yeah. Well, bring your own heart.

More with Springer in one moment, but first, let's talk about Bloomsday box in the spirit of holiday sharing and we are selling the holidays. The all those people you forgot about, you can still get to them. I put a lot of effort into finding the right holiday gifts for special people. Well, it's a small, small list of special people. I don't really love holiday shopping, but my mom is certainly on that list.

And that's why I sent her flowers from Bloom Xbox for the holidays. Do you know these guys Bloom Xbox? You should. They are spectacular. They're totally beautiful and they're totally fresh, which is what makes them so special. You see, they're delivered farm fresh, straight to your loved one. So they arrive weeks fresher. And the stuff you would get at the store, they're simply better blooms. They're spectacular, as is the story behind them. They're sustainably grown people on family farms around the world.

You place your order and then your flowers are handpicked and arranged at the farm just for you. It's like sending a personal one of a kind flower gift. They've got incredible prices and huge selections of artisan designed arrangements. So you don't have to worry about arranging them. Obviously are suggesting that they know what they're doing.

No hidden fees, no endless obstacles and free shipping with your subscription.

So whether you are sending a holiday arrangement to your mom or your grandma or your loved one, or you're getting a subscription for someone special to receive flowers every month, only send Bloom Xbox. And I got you a special discount to go to Bloom Xbox Dotcom and enter MK to get 15 percent off and free shipping. That's promo code for 15 percent off at the MCI box dot com. And now we're going to bring you a feature before we get back to our guest that we call asked and answered here on the Megan Kelly Show.

Steve Krakouer, our EP is with me and he's been firing through all the questions that we get. And what are what are you seeing?

Yeah, maybe we've gotten some great questions on our social media accounts that we're keeping an eye on at all times. That's Megan Kelly Show. And you can ask your questions there as well or at our email address, questions at Devil May Care Media dot com. This one comes to us from Ashley Jenkins, who has an interesting one. She wants to know if you'll ever run for political office, ma'am.

Thank you for that, Ashley. I don't think so. I wouldn't totally rule it out because I really felt like the country needed me. I would consider it, but it's not something I really want to do.

I just think it's like out of the frying pan, into the fire fire there. You know, it's like I don't really like having an acrimonious life. It's acrimonious enough as it is. And I'm I do it because I feel I must. I just I can't I try to keep myself away and I couldn't do it. So maybe that's what will lead me into that fire at some point. But I don't know what I run is I definitely wouldn't be a Democrat.

I don't feel aligned with the Republican Party either.

And I don't think independents can really win. I don't know, maybe I'll be like Trump having been a lifelong one party.

Just declare myself some other party and tell people that's what I'm doing anyway. I don't know. I'm not really political by nature.

I just have some strong views on various cultural issues. And I like I love the First Amendment.

And I there's a lot I believe in, but I'm not like partisan. I don't know if a person like me could get elected. I know just whether I want to do that to my life. So stand by. I'm not ruling it out entirely. If the country really needs me, I think about it.

But I'd obviously have to leave New York City, which I'm doing anyway, because my politics do not align with the folks in my neighborhood.

New York State has has elected some Republicans at the senatorial and gubernatorial level. I don't know.

Just doesn't seem like a job is well respected anymore. Right. I'm kind of rambling now, but it doesn't. I used to look at these senators and governors think, oh, wow.

Now I'm like, uh, depends on the person, but just the job itself feels a little, uh. So I guess the answer is we'll see, Ashley. We'll see. But thank you for your question.

We'll take we'll take some more questions at Devil May Care, Mediatheque. And also we'll take them on all of our online social media, Instagram and Facebook and Twitter. And now back to Springers.

I always find this I think most people, not everyone, but most people have some family secret that they wouldn't want to see on television or on the front page of the National Enquirer. And what you find when you actually start talking about sad things is you are not alone.

Most people have an effed up family in one way, shape or form because we're human.

So it does give that little comfort to see in the same way. I watch The Real Housewives just to remind myself that I'm a good person.

Sort of gives you that feeling. And you know what I love about you?

You own it. And you even though you're a very successful guy, I mean, pretty much everything you touched over your career turned to gold. You are humble. And I saw my producer forwarded this to me before today and our whole team circulated it. I, I, my husband read it over and over.

We were talking about it for a couple of days. It's it's evidenced in the graduation speech you gave at Northwestern Law School back in 2008.

It's amazing. And I heard you all listeners to Google it, Google it and read it and maybe put it on your wall and I'll just I'll just give them a sense, OK, so bear with me. So some of the students complained, of course, because they complained about anybody, but they expressed a deep sense of anger, embarrassment and surprise that you would be invited. So you get up there and instead of ignoring it and just trying to go highbrow, you say and I quote to the students who invited me, thank you.

I'm honored to the students who object to my presence. Well, you've got a point. I, too, would have chosen someone else in an attempt to soften the pain. Let me stipulate to the facts.

You are right. I am an imperfect being and I feel hardly qualified to tell you what to do with your lives. Though I've been lucky enough to enjoy a comfortable measure of success in my various careers, let's be honest. I've been virtually everything. You can't respect a lawyer, a mayor, a major market news anchor and a talk show host. Pray for me. If I get to heaven, we're all going.

I love that to serve you well as well.

I mean, you sound like you have a very healthy sense of humor most of all about yourself. How critical is that been to your well-being?

Oh, well, I, I just think it's a it's the comforting way to live. I don't want to sound preachy, but I guess if you if you're just really honest with yourself because you know what you're really like, you know, and you know how much luck was involved in my success. I'm not being modest, but I have the only job I ever applied for in life. The only job was mayor, because you have to run for that.

So that I stood up and said, please vote for me. But every other job was handed to me. I was recruited out of law school to go to a law firm. I, I was the city councilman and mayor for ten years. And then NBC came to me and said, when your term is up, anchor our news. And then the ten years later, the head of the news, the head of the station, came and said, we want you to do the talk show.

And then because of the talk show, NBC came and said, we want you to host America's Got Talent. We want you to do Dancing with the Stars. We want I mean, everything is so that's luck. That is luck, because I am just like my friends, the friends I grew up with and the friends I had in the high school and college. We're still best buddies and we're all alike. I'm not the funniest one among my friends.

I'm not the smartest one among my friends. It's like, how did all this happen? So when people say, I made it on my own, I say ninety nine percent of what we are. We had nothing to do with it. There's not a person on Earth that was involved in the decision to be born to who may be born in what? In what era. In what country to what parents. To what health. To what mind.

All of this is a gift. And if you just understand that and then you just say to yourself, I'm never going to judge someone based on what they are, only judge people based on what they do, then then the rest is easy. You don't get upset. You know, it's like, hey, what a ride I've had until I don't get upset about the little things. I mean, they really are little things. My family, they had a tough I want to get to that.

I only get to that one minute. But before we get before we go there, let me ask you about and tell me if you don't want to talk about this. But there was an incident in which your luck ran out in the early 70s when you were on city council. And as I understand it, you were caught paying a hooker at a massage parlor. You pulled a Bob Kraft.

Yes. And that that, I'm sure, was humiliating. How did that affect you at the time?

Well, it was yeah, it was humiliating. Terribly embarrassing. I shouldn't have done it. And but no one knew that I did it. When I held a press conference and announced what I had done, I was just afraid of being blackmailed. And so I said, well, I first resigned and then I explained why I did. And but then the next election I decided, well, let's see if people have me back. And I won the election and then the next election I was elected mayor.

So basically, my it was it happened so early in life. And it's 50 years ago of forty eight years ago. So it's like it if it happened, it just wasn't that big of a deal. I mean I was personally embarrassed and and dealt with that, but I wasn't thinking in terms of, oh, what's going to happen in my life. And you know, it just may be because what I did was clearly wrong and I shouldn't have done it.

It didn't strike me as, oh, my God, I've gone out and killed someone or, you know, it just I never took it as that big a deal, except that I should stand up and apologize for what I've done and be 100 percent honest about it. And and what happens happened.

I mean, it would be it would be embarrassing for anybody to be in the paper for that, especially a public figure, a politician here in New York. Sadly, there's a culture at some or at least used to be some of these Wall Street firms that that's just like a thing. You go in, you pay, they call it a rub and tug. You go in there for one of those on your lunch hour. And it I like I always was curious because a lot of the times these are married guys and I'm like, why?

Why would you do that when you're married?

And it reminded me of the Charlie Sheen quote when somebody said, like, why would you be going to hookers? You're Charlie Sheen, you don't have trouble getting women. And he said, I don't pay them to sleep with me. I pay them to go away, you know?

And I wondered now that I have you, if you don't mind me asking, why why would you pay for that? Like, why not just go get a girl and hang out and, you know, do the old fashioned way beyond instant answers?

I have no idea. I mean, there's no rational answer to it. It made no sense. It was wrong. I mean, I just I mean, that's the honest answer. I can't think I can do anything I say I would be making up now, you know, you do. I think part of the things I grew up a little later than most people I don't know is just this stupid thing is all I can say. There's no there's no justification for there's no rationale.

But I can't tell you that it has been a weight. I mean, obviously how lucky I've been the rest of my life.

So, OK, but you keep saying, look, I it's also it's also determination and hard work. I mean, if if most guys caught in that situation as a public figure, I would probably assume my political future is over. And what kind of a job am I going to get now that that's been out there publicly?

You had a huge cutback. You after that is when right when you became mayor at the youngest age ever. Right. You were thirty three at the time in Cincinnati. I was out. That was after that.

Well, I think there was some goodwill going in because I at least politically was did very well in terms of winning elections. You know, I think people honestly look, Cincinnati was Republican and I won as a liberal Democrat. I mean, I think people just as their own son, I used to say the only reason they voted for me so that so that they could keep an eye on me where I was, you know, so they there was no real anger.

You know, it's oftentimes the way you handle it, the way you respond. If you you know, who hasn't had someone, some kid in their family, let's say, or someone in their family that, you know, you scold and they did some. But you don't stop loving them or you don't stop it, is your family supportive and maybe your friend, you don't stop liking your friend, but again, that it's so long ago that I don't you know, I'm trying to reconstruct now and I can't even come up with a lie.

Well, right. It's been a lot of years, but I mean, weirdly feel inspired by the fact that you picked yourself up and you got back out there and you made it happen. You know, all of the all of the success we've been discussing came post all of that. You know, you wound up running for governor. That didn't that didn't work out. That's when you went into news that crazy time, Chicago versus Cincinnati during the same timeframe, I think.

Well, I don't know if you lived in Chicago or if you were just visiting, but I saw you. I moved to Chicago right after I finished law school. It was 1995. I lived there till 1997. And I was living in a building called the North Pier Apartment Tower, which was four seventy four North Lakeshore Drive. It was basically right by Navy Pier. And I came downstairs and there was like, I can't remember what was going on, but it was like snowy outside and it was just a beautiful day, like winter day.

And I come I turn around the corner and it's like picturesque. And there was a man standing there. All the doormen were men were staring at him. That man was Springer.

And I thought, oh, that's exciting.

Well, because I yeah, I had a place I had a place in the Hancock building. Oh, yeah. It was not far away.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And and. Oh right. Oh I forget. Was someone who he was on the Sedley, he was on the Saturday Night Live and died of a drug. Oh. Chris Farley. Chris Farley. Right. Still live in the building. And the day that they found him I was I went to lunch, we were taping shows and then I went to lunch and suddenly the news broke out that so the headline was Celebrity Found Dead in the Hancock Building.

And so I don't know anything about it. I'm just I'm walking back. There's a big crowd out there. And then when I get upstairs. My phone back then, we had voicemail, you know, answering machines, it was going crazy, Hujer, or you just call call. Are you are you OK? Call because they immediately assume that it was me. They probably didn't, you know, I mean, people that I knew knew I was there.

And so that was a frightening thought. But, yeah, I lived in your neighborhood, I guess.

Yeah, I remember I saw that building I lived in had sixty one floors. And I when I moved in I was on 19 and it had views of Lake Michigan and I completely thought I had arrived. I my, my own newspaper headline for myself was a young lawyer has Lakeview boom.

You are such a loser.

My view was the ninety first more far total loser under present and but you know who wasn't a loser, you know, who was not a loser on the sixty first floor of my building.

Guess who had the higher floor. He was a big athlete. He was huge Chicago star at the time.

Again, this is ninety five through ninety seven, probably one of the biggest, you know, a different sport.

Baseball.

Oh Cubs. Sammy Sosa. Yeah.

Yes, you got it. Oh yes. Sammy Sosa.

And he was on the elevator one night. I came home after a few too many cocktails and we both get on the elevator and I press nineteen. He presses sixty one. I had some idea of who he was, but I wasn't a big sports fan. Still, still am not. But yeah, he passed the sixty when I look at him and I was like, oh you're high.

And he said, do you want to come up and take a look.

So but I didn't go there. Maybe I should have gone.

Listen, I we've got to talk. You mentioned it a couple of times when we talked about immigration and your family's story.

So what happened is my parents got married in nineteen thirty three German Jews and then Hitler came in and they ultimately grabbed my grandparents, uncles and cousins. We basically virtually the whole family was wiped out except mom and dad. Mom and dad got out of Germany in August of nineteen thirty nine. They managed to get a visa to get them to England and they got it. When I say August thirty nine, it was the middle of August, August 16, 17, something like that.

Two weeks later, September 1st. Nineteen thirty nine, Hitler goes into Poland to start World War Two. Well and that is when the gates came down and Jews were no longer permitted, those who hadn't been caught yet, but they weren't permitted to leave Germany. So according to the visa numbers, my mom and dad where the eighty eight and eighty nine. People, Jews left that were permitted to get out of Germany. In other words, the numbers got cut off.

Eighty nine people later and they got to England, where my sister and I were born. And then 10 years later, so we were born during the war.

Is it true you were born in the London tube? Yeah, that wasn't strange at the time because the war was going on and women in the ninth month would often spend the night in in the subway tubes, the tunnels, because those were bomb shelters. And and my sister was born in October 30 or so, a month after my parents got to work, six weeks after my parents got to England. My sister was born. And then during the war I was born.

And then in nineteen forty nine, when I was five, my parents bought five tickets on the Queen Mary and came over to America because they had lived through two world wars now and they thought Europe would never be safe. And so they were lucky enough to get a visa to come to America, which was difficult at the time too. We romanticize it. But the truth is America had pretty restrictive immigration policies back then in terms of whether it was Jews or from certain countries, etc.

It was there was a real isolationist feeling and it was difficult for immigrants, certainly during the war and even afterwards for some time. But anyway, my parents got and we lived the American dream. In other words, going by the Statue of Liberty, I often tell the story of people. We were the Queen Mary, which is the one memory I have, because, you know, for a little boy to be on the Queen Mary, which at the time was, I think, the largest ship in the world, or at least the second largest ship in the world.

And, you know, it was like, oh, my God, it was a city. And it was a five day journey from England to New York Harbor. You go by the Statue of Liberty. And I my parents woke me up because they wanted me to go out on deck and see the passing of this as we sailed by the Statue of Liberty. And all I remember this was January twenty fourth. Nineteen forty nine. All I remember basically was that it was freezing cold.

And there were two thousand people packed together or watching the statue, and what I remember being scared is that nobody talked. There was absolute silence and it scared as a little kid, I didn't know what this was. All these people standing on a boat in a ship on freezing weather, staring at staring at something. And it was and they were silent in later years. My mom told me about that journey and she said I had asked her, what are we looking at?

You know, what does that statue mean? And she said in the German, she spoke at the time. I always one day it'll mean everything. So she my parents really bought the American dream. And my dad was a vendor. He sold stuffed animals on the beaches of New Jersey and New York. And on the boardwalk there, my mom was a clerk in a bank. And, you know, we lived in a rent controlled apartment in Kew Gardens to until nineteen eighty one when my parents moved to Washington to be closer to my sister.

And they passed away five years later. But so that to see their kids grow up and have the life, I you know, we were having to get us to college to, you know, but it was so we politics to us wasn't just a hobby. It was real life. And I remember as a kid, I Netherlanders to that we would at the dinner table every night, we would have to talk about one thing we saw in the newspaper, and I was a little boy, so all I cared about is what the Yankees were doing or the sports.

So every day I would talk about a sports thing, but I guess my parents knew that at some point I would start reading other pages in the paper and, you know, and then all the way through junior high and high school, you know, we started talking about other things and then, of course, came to the 60s and and it was, you know, everyone was going to Vietnam or whatever. And so it was impossible. And the civil rights movement.

So we became pretty political with that. But so it was No one. It wasn't. I knew my parents said you're either going to law school or medical school with the Jewish culture kind of thing. And, you know, and I never thought about anything other that I would be going to one of those schools. And since I was more interested in politics, I thought law school would make more sense. I never really wanted to be a lawyer, but I thought law school made more sense than medical school for that.

And you know, the rest of the story.

Well, to to end it on the same conciliatory note that we began on. I love that looking at the Statue of Liberty, what does she mean one day everything? I couldn't agree with that more. I think that's still the promise of America and a place where anything is possible. Anything is still possible.

Jerry Springer, you're living proof of that. And it's an honor to talk to you. You're much more Three-Dimensional than than I knew. And I love your story really well.

You are. Yeah, I am. You know, I as I told you, I think, you know, I am a fan favorite. So it's it's exciting. And I kept saying, well, next week I'm going to be talking to make it. Yeah. This week it's tomorrow. So it's kind of exciting for us.

Well, send my love to Mickey as well. I will. Aren't you sweet? Thank you very much.

Today's episode was brought to you in part by Norton 360 with LifeLock.

Protect yourself from cybercrime with the top trusted ally in today's connected world. Go to Norten Dotcom EMK to learn more. Now, listen, if you have not yet subscribed to the show, please do that now, would you? We've been bringing you all new episodes this entire holiday season and we will continue to do that because we're not phoning it in on you. We want you to have new content. It's nice to see you on vacation. You could go down the ski slope and you can listen to us a little.

We can still be together learning and growing together. And we're going to do that. Our next show with Brigitte Fennessy. Now, Brigitte is an online personality. She's big on YouTube, she's big on Twitter. That's how I first found her and fell in love with her. She's funny. She's a comedian. She's a social social commentator. And she's been you may have heard her on Shapiro or Ruben at Joe Rogan, but I what I love about her is she's very reasonable.

She's much more in the middle than she is anyway. So she's sort of fiercely independent. She'll call out both sides. But I think this is going to be the most personal you've ever heard her. Yeah, for sure. There were some very emotional moments. And can I tell you, there was a surprise announcement that is going to knock your socks off. I cannot believe that she chose to do it on my show. I'm honored. And I think you're going to be interested.

So stay tuned for Brigitte coming up next year. Thanks for listening to the Megan Kelly show. No bias, no agendas and no fear. The Megan Kelly Show is a devil may care media production in collaboration with RedZone Ventures.