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The Rachel Maddow Show weeknights at 9:00 Eastern on MSNBC. Rachel remains quarantined after a close contact tested covid positive, but Rachel is still doing just fine. However, we just got word a moment ago that more than one hundred and fifty seven thousand Americans were diagnosed with covid today. This is a brand new record, which comes a day after we broke the previous record. More than one hundred and fifty seven thousand people tested positive for cocaine in the United States today.

We'll be talking in just a few minutes with a member of President elect Joe Biden's covid-19 advisory board. Looking forward to that conversation. We're also expecting brand new numbers from Maricopa County, Arizona, tonight, which could very well lead to the state being called for Joe Biden. But before we get to the next president, in fact, before we even talk about the current president today, we heard from our last president, not in a speech or in an interview, but in an audio book.

The Atlantic magazine today published an excerpt from President Obama's new memoir, including an audio excerpt of the former president reading the book's preface in that preface. Obama says one reason it took this long to write this book was that he, quote, didn't fully anticipate the way events would unfold and quote, in the years after he left office, which I think is Barack Obama's measured way of saying stuff. Got kind of crazy around here. Our democracy seems to be teetering on the brink of crisis, a crisis rooted in a fundamental contest between two opposing visions of what America is and what it should be, a crisis that has left the body politic divided, angry and mistrustful, and has allowed for an ongoing breach of institutional norms, procedural safeguards and the adherence to basic facts that both Republicans and Democrats once took for granted.

What I can say for certain is that I'm not yet ready to abandon the possibility of America, not just for the sake of future generations of Americans, but for all of humankind. And so the world watches America, the only great power in history made up of people from every corner of the planet, comprising every race and faith and cultural practice to see if our experiment in democracy can work, to see if we can do what no other nation has ever done.

To see if we can actually live up to the meaning of our creed. The jury's still out. The jury's still out preface to President Obama's new book continues from there, but when he recorded that audio version, this year's presidential election had not yet happened. For the written version of the excerpt published in The Atlantic today, the former president updated the text in light of recent events, and it continues from where he left out. I'm encouraged by the record setting number of Americans who turned out to vote in last week's election and have an abiding trust in Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, in their character and capacity to do what is right.

But I also know that no single election will settle the matter. Our divisions run deep. Our challenges are daunting and. Boy, are they as of tonight, only four count them, four Republican senators have acknowledged Joe Biden's win these four. That means Joe Biden has received far more congratulatory calls from foreign leaders than he has from elected Republican officials in his own country. And Biden would have received yet more calls from foreign leaders were it not for the fact that Donald Trump State Department is refusing to put them in touch with Biden when they call.

The State Department has always handled communications with foreign leaders for lots of reasons, including translation and recording what they say and briefing the person getting the call for the president elect, but not this time.

Another thing that president elect have always gotten, but Joe Biden isn't, is the presidential daily brief. The daily intelligence report prepared for the president. Several Republican senators have now begun saying that Joe Biden should at least be getting that. But to be clear, they are saying Joe Biden should be getting the PDB not because he's the president elect, but just in case he becomes president.

Oklahoma Republican Senator James Lankford was sounding very decisive yesterday, saying if Joe Biden did not start receiving the PDB by the end of the week, he, Senator Lankford would step in, which many people interpreted to mean that Senator Lankford, a Republican of Oklahoma, was saying the presidential transition should begin. So today, just to clear things up, James Lankford rushed to a microphone to make clear that he meant no such thing. And we just have no idea who the president is going to be in January.

So Joe Biden might as well receive intelligence briefings, and that is all he meant. Sure.

Give Joe Biden some briefings. No sense being unprepared. I mean, I guess there's some slight chance Joe Biden could be the next president, but right now it's just unknowable. How could Republican senators be expected to have answers to such bottomless mysteries like who won more votes in the election? OK, all kidding aside, there's a reason that one place Republican senators are starting to budge is actually the issue of intelligence briefings, because if they know in their heart of hearts, as most of them surely do, that Joe Biden really is going to be the next president, regardless of what they're willing to say within earshot of Donald Trump.

Well, then making sure the next president is up to speed on the latest intelligence and national security information is really important today. Over one hundred and fifty former national security officials, including several who served in the Trump administration, wrote to the Trump administration to urge them to officially name Joe Biden and Kamala Harris as the apparent president and vice president elect the technical step that is required to get government transition resources flowing. They warn that, quote, delaying the transition further poses a serious risk to our national security.

And even as the lack of a presidential transition process may be doing unknown harm to national security, President Trump continues to clean house across the intelligence and national security establishment in the US government. We've written reporting for the last few days about the firings at the Defense Department and the installation installation of Trump loyalists at the top levels of the Pentagon. Well, today, President Trump appears to have started clearing out the government's top cybersecurity officials. The Department of Homeland Security's Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency, or Cesa, is definitely not a household name.

But throughout twenty twenty, it was at the center of preventing foreign interference in the election, both by preventing cyber attacks but also by pushing back on Internet disinformation about the election. Today, Reuters reports that the assistant director for Cybersecurity SSA was forced to resign, and the widely respected head of the agency, Chris Krebs, is telling associates that he expects to be fired. Here's what's particularly crazy about this. Just today, Cesa joined several other government agencies in a celebratory statement announcing that, quote, The November 3rd election was the most secure in American history.

There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised. That's amazing news. Imagine being the president of the United States and seeing that statement and being upset by it, but apparently it is sister's insistence that it did the job it was supposed to do, that it successfully helped protect American elections. That has made Donald Trump so angry. Chris Krebbs, quote, drew the ire of the Trump White House over a website run by Cesa dubbed Rumor Control, which debunks misinformation about the election.

White House officials have asked for content to be edited or removed, which pushed back against numerous false claims about the election, including that Democrats are behind the mass election fraud scheme. This makes your head spin the top cybersecurity official, his whole job is to protect the integrity of the election, and he did. But the president says the election was fraudulent. So the guy has got to be fired.

And in just a moment, we're going to speak with a key Democratic senator who has worked on election security and knows Chris Krebs about how concerned we should all be about what the president is doing here. But this story once again gets at the tension we've been talking about all week. On one hand, it seems very, very bad that the president is clearing house in all these national security posts as he refuses to concede defeat in the election. It can look sinister and scary.

But if Trump is just firing his top cybersecurity official because he's mad that the guy debunks his Twitter conspiracy theories, well, that feels less sinister and more petulant and silly. And if you're looking for more evidence of Trump and his allies are not really engaged in a serious or competent attempt to hold on to power. Today in Arizona, a Trump campaign lawyer attempted to submit as evidence a stack of online forms filled out by random people who claimed they had witnessed or heard about voting irregularities.

Even the Trump lawyer admitted the forms were full of lies and, quote, spam. The judge would not allow the so-called evidence. The Trump lawyer was later forced to admit in court, quote, This is not a fraud case. It is not a stealing the election case, which maybe he should tell the president.

Meanwhile, another Trump lawyer attempted to file an election lawsuit with a federal court that has no jurisdiction over elections. A legal dream team. This is not an over at The Washington Post, this headline quote, Trump insists he'll win, but aides say he has no real plan to overturn results. And talks of a twenty twenty four run. Washington Post reporters Philip Rucker and Josh Dossi and Ashley Parker write, quote, Asked about a Trump asked about Trump's ultimate plan, one senior administration official chuckled and said, You're giving everyone way too much credit right now.

Trump has been spending his days largely on the phone, calling advisers, allies and friends. The president has been trying to find people who will give him good news. One adviser said.

Look, there's no doubt this is a scary time. There's no doubt that Donald Trump can do a lot of damage on his way out the door. The moment calls for vigilance, but there is mounting evidence that there may not be an actual plan or even a genuine effort to keep Donald Trump in power. Joining us now, Philip Rucker, White House bureau chief for The Washington Post, whose reporting I've been telling you about.

Good to see you again, my friend. What are you hearing about about those around the president, what they believe to be true and what they're telling him and what he's what he's thinking?

Well, what they believe to be true is not the same necessarily as what they're telling him, that the people around the president understand the reality as it exists, which is that Joe Biden won this election, he's the president elect, that these legal challenges do not do not have much hope of turning those election results around, even if some minuscule amount of voter fraud were to be discovered. And let's be clear, none has been discovered yet. It's not enough to turn this election around.

Biden, one that backs the reality, and it's what the White House officials largely believe. But a number of people are trying to encourage. The president don't necessarily want to give him bad news. They're trying to encourage him to fight on to pursue these legal challenges. The president, instead of being president, instead of addressing the coronavirus and making public appearances and holding task force meetings. These last few days, he's been lighting up the phone. He's been calling friends, allies, advisors, anybody who can give him some good news, who can point to discrepancies potentially where where the vote may be crooked and the president's view, and give him something to cling on to as he tries to claim falsely that the election was stolen from him.

There's reporting that the national security adviser has told staff, don't even mention Biden's name, if you ever mention Biden's name. That's a no go. You'd be fired. One national security official said everyone is scared of even talking about the chance of working with the Biden transition. That's reporting from The Daily Beast. To what end? Bill, where does this go at some point? Are they all hoping that he'll just come around to the conclusion himself or the courts will dismiss all the cases or all the counting will be finished and there'll be no nothing left?

And at some point, Donald Trump will accept reality. Well, Ali, the hope of some in the president's orbit and this would be the least dangerous scenario for the country, is that this is just getting the president to a better emotional state. And maybe next week before we hit Thanksgiving, he'll start to realize what's really going on and he'll find a graceful way to accept the reality of the results and and move on. And by then, we'll be able to begin his transition in the formal official way that he's waiting for.

But we don't know that that's going to happen. And Donald Trump is mercurial. He's impulsive. He makes decisions based on instinct and based on what information people are feeding him. And there's a very real possibility that he refuses to concede and that he refuses to accept these results. And this continues all the way through the inauguration on January 20th. But it's worth keeping in mind that the staff in the West Wing are under orders not to accept that Biden is the president elect, not to be casting about for jobs, not to send their resumes around.

If they're caught doing so, they may be fired. And yet privately, they know that their jobs are going to be over on January 20th because they know how this election turned out.

Philip, you are the White House bureau chief for The Washington Post for a reason, you don't speculate, you report. So you just stated that there's a possibility, the outside possibility that he doesn't come to this conclusion and this goes on until Inauguration Day. At some point in between there, there'll be an Electoral College vote, which then makes it harder to fight back on it. But what do people tell you is the is the worst case scenario?

Well, that would be the worst case scenario that that the president continues to challenge the election result, that he continues to encourage his millions of followers around the country not to believe the integrity of the vote, that he cast doubt about the validity of our very democracy in this country, and that he refuses to accept that Biden is his successor. Now, what that physically means on January 20th when he's supposed to vacate the White House, who knows? And I'm certainly not going to speculate about that.

But it's a dangerous scenario because as you just quoted, Barack Obama saying in his book, The World is watching. This is the most powerful and important democracy in the world. And what we have right now is a sitting president who's challenging the very integrity of our election system. Philip Rucker is the White House bureau chief for The Washington Post. Bill, thank you for making time for us tonight. We appreciate it. Thank you. Want to turn now to Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, the ranking Democrat on the Rules Committee and a member of the Judiciary Committee.

She was a key voice on election security throughout the 20 20 campaign. Obviously, she was also a presidential candidate herself. Senator Klobuchar. Good to see you again. Thank you for being with us tonight.

Thanks, Ali. Thank you. Let's talk about what what you believe is going on with Mr. Crêpes and Cesa. Why is this just vindictive on the part of the president? He did tweet again today, the president that is about votes that were actually changed, votes for Trump that were that had become Biden votes. There's no there's no ground on that at all. What do you think's happening? Chris Krebs has headed up this agency toiling away now since he was appointed to this position and then confirmed by the Senate on a bipartisan basis all through since twenty eighteen.

And he has won the respect of conservative Republican secretaries of states like the West Virginia secretary of state that said he turned everything around, worked so well with the states on election security to people like my friend Mark Warner, who today issued a statement supporting Chris Krebs in his position as the ranking Democrat on the Intelligence Committee. Why is all this? Because this guy literally has been telling the truth and this is in the people that work for him. This is predates what we've seen in the last few weeks.

All along, they started this website and I suggest people look at it, Cesa, Cissé, dot gov slash rumor control. And it took on all kinds of bad information out there on mail, in ballots and things and set the record straight. At the same time. He worked really hard to stop foreign interference in our election. Yes, there were attempts which they came out with publicly with before the election. But overall, as they stated in their statement today, this has been an election where we were able to have a fair election.

And that's because of local election officials all over this country, Republicans and Democrats, who are doing their jobs. And that's because of people like Chris Krebs. And no frivolous lawsuits by Donald Trump going to change that. And I just I'm proud of Chris, but there are a lot and I think he should get a medal instead of being condemned for protecting our country's election.

No, for four years, we talked about foreign interference in our elections, the idea that that wasn't the problem. In fact, there was a joint statement from the Elections Infrastructure Governing Coordinating Council, a whole bunch of people who govern, who oversee elections. And they said there's no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes or was in any way compromised. But herein lies the rub. These are governmental organizations saying so. And today, the same day, you have the president not just tweeting about suppression and polls and all that kind of stuff, but actually saying votes were changed.

And the net result, Senator, is that depending on what polls you look at, up to 20 percent of Americans do not think this election was fairly decided. Not not do not think that Donald Trump lost it. Do not think that it was it was run fairly. This is the the deep scar that this is imposing on democracy in America.

It is. And I am pleased that people are coming out slowly but surely on the Republican side, including some governors. I know you mentioned a few of the senators, but the governors, there have been a number of them now that have come out congratulated Joe Biden on his election. And we just start seeing now today it was yes. James Lankford said he thought Biden should get the briefings, but also Chuck Grassley said the same thing. And he is the most senior member of the US Senate on the Republican side.

So I think that things are slowly but surely changing. Am I dismayed that Donald Trump is firing people left and right while we have the worst moment in the pandemic so far occurring in this country? Fifty six people died in my state alone yesterday, and he is just sitting, stewing in his office. As John Bolton said today, we don't have time to get through seven stages of grief with Donald Trump. The point is that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are moving forward.

They Joe announced his chief of staff today. The president elect has put together this preeminent task force of 13 experts to make recommendations to get us through this pandemic. And out the other side, work is being done in the private sector on the vaccine. We need to get rapid testing out immediately and work is being done. And that's I hope that some assurance to you, despite the fact that Joe Biden is being denied what he should be getting, which is these intelligence briefing and a transition space and funding for his transition.

Senator, I saw you last in person when I was in Minneapolis doing my show there and your husband had had covered so this is this is personal to you as well as the national tragedy, as you heard today. One hundred and fifty seven thousand new cases today. Senator, thank you for your time, as always. I appreciate it.

Thank you very much, Ali. The coronavirus numbers today are so overwhelming that they are almost hard to comprehend. A member of the Biden Harris Coronavirus Task Force joins us to help us understand what this administration, the next administration is planning to do to help.

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Nine thousand more than the record. We've been breaking coronavirus case records almost every day for the past week. We are showing no signs of stopping. Deaths are on the rise, too, with the number of new people reported dead from covid. Increasing daily hospitalizations are trending up. More than sixty seven thousand people are in the hospital fighting this illness. Hospitals in many states like Wisconsin, Illinois, New Mexico, to name just a few, are overrun with patients.

The pandemic is worsening in every corner of this country, no matter how you measure it. By The New York Times, count cases are rising in every single state except for Louisiana. Meanwhile, in our nation's capital, the White House is experiencing yet another covid cluster, despite not having the bulk of the election results in on Election Day. Last night, the Trump last Tuesday I'm sorry, the Trump White House held this presumptive victory party in the East Room at the White House.

And since then, several attendees have tested positive, including the White House chief of Staff Mark Meadows, HUD Secretary Ben Carson, Trump campaign adviser David Bossie, former Trump campaign aide Haley Baumgartner and White House political director Brian Jack. All in attendance, all having tested positive. And today we learned there are two more positives. Republican National Committee Chief of Staff Richard Walters and Trump campaign advisor Corey Lewandowski, who since that election night party has also spent time in Philadelphia trying to help Trump's flailing legal challenges to the vote count there.

And he showed up at the end at the infamous news conference on Saturday outside the Four Seasons, the Four Seasons Total Landscaping Company. But don't panic, Lewandowski told CNBC today. I feel great and it's great for him that he's not experiencing symptoms right now. But it's not great for the one hundred and sixty thousand Americans who just caught this thing today, or specifically the sixty seven thousand people currently hospitalized because of their symptoms. These numbers keep going up in no small part because of the lack of a consistent national response to this virus.

Each state has been left to make up its own rules in response to cave searches. The Wall Street Journal reports that governors in New York, Maryland, Minnesota, Iowa, Utah and other states have imposed restrictive measures since yesterday's record high case count. But change could still be on the way. The Biden transition team is getting down to business and planning a national response to coronavirus. Earlier this week, Biden assembled his coronavirus task force, a team of doctors and health experts that will help shape coronavirus containment policy for the Biden administration, starting on day one, hopefully before day one.

One of the doctors on that task force joins us now. Dr. Celine Gounder, epidemiologist, clinical assistant professor of medicine and infectious diseases at NYU, Grossman School of Medicine and now a member of the Biden Harris Coronavirus Task Force. Dr. Gounder, good to see you again. Thank you for being with us tonight. My pleasure, Ali.

I want to understand, I know that there are many of you very qualified people on the two different groups that the Biden administration, the incoming Biden administration has put together. What does it mean to us on the receiving end? What does a coordinated federal response look like? Is it stuff that the administration does? Is it pulling all the governors together and creating a standard that makes sense? Is it using the CDC and the NIH the right way, unlike this administration is doing?

What does it look like? Well, it's all of the above.

I think part of what has been in the works for months now is developing a blueprint, a plan how to operationalize that plan in terms of how to control the pandemic in this country. And that requires a federal response, but it also requires a state and local health response and the involvement of the private sector. And so what you're going to see in this new administration is you're certainly going to see the CDC taken off the sidelines back in the center of the game.

You'll see you'll be hearing from people like Nancy Messenger and Nancy excuse me, Anne Schuchat. Again, these are career scientists at the CDC who are really expert in this area. And you're going to see improved coordination with governors, with state and local health departments in terms of implementing the CDC guidelines. And finally, in terms of the private sector, when we talk about how do we scale up vaccines, how do we scale up testing, how do we scale up some of the new therapeutics like monoclonal antibodies, that is very much going to require the participation of the private sector to distribute and disseminate all of those new technologies.

I remember watching the Ebola response in the United States and thinking this is tight, the the idea that if you called I was in New York City and if you call nine one one and you've got Ebola symptoms, a whole separate operation comes to get you in hazmat suits and you went to a particular place, the government thought that Ron Klain is now going to be the chief of staff at the White House, a guy who knows how to fully take on a virus and really go to war with it, you know, run very well.

I do, I do, and I think there could not have been a better choice. Ron has spent decades in government previously as chief of staff to Vice President Gore, later for Vice President Biden and now for President Vice President elect Biden. And not only does he understand how government works, how different branches had different agencies work together, how to coordinate all of those different groups. He also served as White House Ebola czar and so really does understand how to control a pandemic in terms of the government response.

So really, I was quite pleased to see that Ron was chosen. I can't think of a better choice. What there is some talk about shutting down the country. What's the best way for people to think about what controlling the spread of this virus looks like? Visa V going about business as usual.

Well, I don't really love the expression shut down or a lockdown, I think we have moved beyond that at this point, those kinds of draconian, lacking in nuance kind of measures. We've moved past that because we do understand a bit more about how the virus is spread. And really what we need to be doing is thinking about this as not an on and off light switch, but rather a dimmer switch where you sort of dial up and dial down interventions as you do your surveillance, you see what's happening in different communities.

I think New York City was actually a very good example of this in the last couple of months, where in specific zip codes we targeted testing and contact tracing on the basis of searches in those zip codes. We didn't have lockdowns across the city. And so we're now in New York at the point where we're reaching a tipping point in terms of having to tighten up on certain other things more broadly. That includes putting a pause on indoor dining, on bars, on indoor gyms.

But that doesn't mean closing schools, for example. So I think we can do these things in a far more granular way that are less disruptive to people's everyday lives now. And that those those new restrictions in New York City will go into place starting tomorrow night. So it's interesting that dimmer switch analogy. Dr. Celine Gounder, good to see you. Epidemiologists, clinical assistant professor of medicine and infectious diseases at NYU, Grossman School of Medicine and now a member of the Biden Harris Coronavirus Task Force.

We appreciate your time and your service to the country. My pleasure. President Trump has gotten a lot of mileage out of the controversial legal opinion that you cannot indict a sitting president, but that all changes after January 20th. And tonight, there's new reporting that could give the president yet another reason to worry. Hey, it's Chris Hayes this week on my podcast, why is this happening? I'll be talking with digital fundraiser Michael Whitney about the Wild West of online fundraising for political campaigns.

There was in 2004 a fairly big scandal where the College Republicans essentially disguised their fundraising appeals as a supporting George W. Bush's re-election. And they did a direct mail scam, essentially targeting senior citizens, getting people to donate to George W. Bush. But all the money went to the College Republicans, and that's 2004. You look 16 years later, and that is the M.O. for probably one hundred different Democratic groups. That's this week on why is this happening? Search for why is this happening wherever you're listening right now and subscribe.

In twenty nineteen, Trump's longtime lawyer and fixer testified to the House Oversight Committee, Michael Cohen testified that the president and his business inflated various asset values for loans and insurance purposes to secure more favorable terms and in some cases understated the value of some of his properties to pay lower taxes. Now, in case it's not obvious, that is fraud and that is illegal. To your knowledge, did the president or his company ever inflate assets or revenues? Yes.

And was that done with the president's knowledge or direction?

Everything was done with the knowledge and at the direction of Mr. Trump.

To your knowledge, did the president ever provide inflated assets to an insurance company? Who else knows that the president at this Alan Weissenberg? One of the many people apparently tuning in that day was Letitia James, this woman, the attorney general for the state of New York. After hearing Cohen's testimony, her office opened an investigation into the president's financial dealings, specifically the alleged fraud detailed by Michael Cohen. Now, up until now, this investigation has not provided much of a real threat to Trump because the president has a very important job that virtually makes him immune from prosecution.

But obviously, things have changed in just the past week. And today we learned that New York's attorney general is advancing her investigation. Bloomberg News reports that Letitia James's office has obtained financial documents from Allen Wastler. Berg, the individual name checked by Mr. Cohen during his congressional testimony testimony. Mr. Wisenberg is the chief financial officer of the Trump Organization. He was intimately involved in the twenty sixteen Stormy Daniels hush money payment and has been with Trump for decades, been with the Trump family.

In fact, for decades. His financial documents could potentially shed major light on the Trump organization's operations and tax strategies. More on this. I want to bring in my friend, US attorney and former U.S. attorney in Alabama and MSNBC legal analyst Joyce Vance. Joyce, thanks for being with us tonight. Good to be with you, Ali. Let's try let's talk about I talk to Letitia James, the attorney general, a couple of weeks ago on my show and asked her about this.

She wasn't terribly forthcoming. But if she's got a case getting ready for case, she's not going to tell me about it on MSNBC. The fact is, this Alan Weissberg character, who she's looking into, he's been with the Trumps. It's his name on the checks. Apparently nothing got anywhere money wise without Weisberg's fingerprints on it. That seems to be accurate. He's the chief financial officer, he's the man in charge of the president's trust, those resources that he's supposedly put into a blind trust during the presidency.

But he has been with the company since Fred Trump's time. He would certainly know, as prosecutors like to say, where all of the bodies are buried, if there has been any financial mismanagement or misconduct by the company.

And we'll we'll find out when we find out what Letitia James has, but this does shed new light on what we've seen since Saturday since Joe Biden was declared the president elect. Donald Trump has a lot of reasons for wanting to continue to be president. In fact, according to CNN reporting today, Donald Trump has been asking aides since twenty seventeen about whether he can sell pardon. One former White House official said Trump asked about s pardons as well as pardons for his family.

Trump even asked if he could issue pardons preemptively, preemptively for things people could be charged with in the future, the former official said. So what's the answer to that? Can he and does it matter if if charges are brought by Letitia James, the attorney general of New York State, or Cy Vance? I think, first off, we should just take a deep breath and acknowledge the audacity of a president who so clearly concerned about his own criminal culpability and that of his family members, that pardons are a major obsession with him.

And certainly we know one thing about Donald Trump, which is that he will do whatever he wants to do, whether he's entitled to do it or not, whether it has legal force is an entirely different question. But at best, he can pardon himself for federal criminal conduct. And what Attorney General James is looking at is a series of civil cases in New York under broad authority that she has under their blue sky laws to investigate persistent incidents of fraud by a corporation.

It's meant to tell companies, if you're going to play in New York, you have to play fairly. And so she could theoretically bring perhaps one major civil case against him or an entire series of cases over all of these incidents. And that, of course, would be something he couldn't pardon himself from, nor can he protect himself from criminal investigations that are clearly being done by Manhattan D.A. Vance.

So what these two lines of investigation together show us is that there will be investigations that will survive the end of Trump's presidency and he will no longer have the shield of the presidency to protect him from the consequences of those investigations.

And then there's this other issue of the money that he owes, we know of at least four hundred and twenty one million dollars that Donald Trump owes. It's not clear to whom he owes it. And two things happen here. One is he can't continue to do things for folks if he's not the president of the United States. So there are worries that maybe take some of those things that he's got in his head that only presidents know about our country. And maybe that's a value to someone.

How do we even know or how can we police that? How does Joe Biden even think about how to stop Donald Trump from taking literally state secrets and sharing them with people in exchange for money? The story of the last four years has been Donald Trump's belief that he is above the law and his ability to hold himself above the law because of the complicity of those around him who have protected him from the consequences of his conduct. That is going to come to a stop on January 20th of twenty twenty one when the rule of law will be restored in this country and where Donald Trump, like any other person who violates the law, will be held accountable for the consequences.

So I feel very comfortable that the FBI and other federal law enforcement and intelligence agencies will be more than up to the job of ensuring that our country's national security is fully protected and that anyone who seeks to violate it will be dealt with.

George, good to see you as always, my friend Joyce Vance is the former United States attorney in Alabama. Thanks for your time tonight. Good to see. The state of Georgia still too close to call in the 20 20 presidential election, but Joe Biden is leading, which is incredible for Georgia. And there's one person who many people think made that happen, Stacey Abrams. We will have her thoughts on the state Senate runoffs and the path forward from here after the break.

State officials in Georgia, election officials tonight face two gargantuan challenges, preparing for two crucial January 5th runoff elections that will decide the control of the United States Senate and the contours of a Biden presidency. But before they even get to that, election officials must conduct a time consuming, labor intensive hand recount of close to five million presidential ballots. Further complicating matters today, the Republican secretary of state who ordered that recount announced that he will be quarantining after his wife tested positive for coronavirus.

Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger ordered the hand recount on Wednesday amid heavy pressure from Republicans who have been attacking him, despite the fact that he said there was no widespread fraud and that any recount was unlikely to erase President elect Joe Biden's fourteen thousand vote lead in the state. Still, the recount means more long days for an election workforce that's already been putting in 12 to 14 hour shifts over the past month. The deadline for that recount has to be completed.

It is November 20th in just eight days time. And while the state throws all of its resources toward completing that, the eyes of the nation are focused on the runoffs. A Republican leaning poll today released showed a tight race in both contests, with the two Republicans slightly ahead, both within the margin of error. But it's a different story when it comes to the money. Republicans have jumped out to an early lead. Both their candidates and their Senate allies have already raised thirty two million dollars over the past week, while outside groups are poised to inject vast sums into the contests for Democrats.

The disparity would be even greater if not for Stacey Abrams, who's Fair Fight Group has raised over nine million dollars to support Georgia's two Democratic candidates. Today, the twenty eighteen gubernatorial committee and one of the biggest stars in the party discussed the upcoming fight with NBC News. We're not fighting against Republicans, we're fighting for America, and the way we do that is by pulling together the coalition that we had in November and making certain that that coalition understands its power heading into January.

We've got to remember, this is going to happen in the midst of Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Year's. So we've got to be able to penetrate and make sure people understand that while we celebrate those holidays, we also have to celebrate the victory of Joe Biden by giving him the greatest present, and that is making sure he has control of the Senate. Today, reports emerged that Abrams herself is indeed looking to run for governor again in twenty twenty two, but before dealing with that, she plans to do everything she's focused on exclusively for this.

Existential challenges, she says, is posed by two more years of Republican Senate control. For me, there is no greater promise that I can make to the American people and to Georgians than I'm going to be committed to ensuring their victory, because that's how we get access to health care. That's how we get access to jobs. That's how we get access to justice. And my responsibility is to focus so singularly on that that nothing else matters except for getting this done.

The difference in our nation, if we do not deliver Raphael Warnock and John OSF is going to be tremendous and jarring and possibly existential. Joining us now is Aaron Haines, editor at large of the 19, the nonprofit, nonpartisan NEWSROOM focused on gender, politics and policy. She's the recent recipient of the 20 20 Vernon Jarrett Medal for Journalistic Excellence. But more importantly for this discussion, she is a native of Atlanta, Georgia, with wide ranging knowledge of the state's politics.

Aaron, great to see you again, my friend. Thank you for being with us. Let's just talk a little about Georgia being in the column for Joe Biden. Joe Biden is in the lead in an account that isn't completely finished and is now going to be a recount. But that in itself is a remarkable feat. It absolutely is a remarkable feat and does not come to as a surprise to one, Stacey Abrams, who has been playing the long game in Georgia for several years and has believed that the electorate can be expanded not by trying to persuade people who may or may not be persuadable, but by really reaching those voters who haven't been seen and heard in the Peach State and convincing them that this election was about them, not necessarily about any one candidate, but about how their elected officials can have an impact on their daily lives, something that's become more real, I think, for a lot of voters across this country and also in Georgia in the midst of a pandemic.

Listen, her newly formed Voting Enfranchisement Association, Fair Fight put out a memo last fall saying that Georgia was in play and that Georgia was going to be a factor in this election, that it was going to be a battleground state. And what she has done has really produced a blueprint for states with the same kinds of forgotten voters and not only in Georgia, but in states with large black populations, large marginalized community populations to follow. And I think that headed into this runoff, engaging that population one more time.

Now that Georgia kind of has its newfound swagger as a battleground state is what she is singularly focused on. The governor's race isn't going anywhere. It's going to be there next year. But right now, what she is focused on is keeping this new blue energy focused on possible control of the Senate. And it wasn't just the counties around Atlanta, Fulton County. If you look at this map this time around, it was a lot of other places that that grew, the metropolitan areas that grew.

It was still urban centers typically that went blue versus rural areas in Georgia that went red. But, Erin, when we look at elections, Senate elections don't get the turnout presidential elections get even when they're in the normal cycle, special elections suffer from that even more. What makes this different? How do you get those same people out to vote in this election? I think because of what's on the line, I mean, for people who wanted to see not just President Trump out of office, but Biden Harris victory that they really felt had the capacity to change their lives, fundamentally, the kinds of people that were in the streets marching around this national reckoning on race, pushing for big systemic change, that doesn't happen if Democrats do not have more control in in Congress.

And so that is is what is being used to galvanize those voters this time around. But look, I mean, with all of this newfound attention on Georgia, I think it has the potential to galvanize both sides even as hard as Stacey Abrams is going to work. And as committed as I know, a lot of these black women organizers, not just her, but the grassroots folks who know how to how to mobilize these kinds of voters and get them turned out one more time, not just in Atlanta.

Ali, to your point, I mean, the suburbs don't look like they looked in Atlanta and in Georgia, you know, just a few years ago. Rural voters are being redefined this cycle, thanks to folks like Stacey Abrams and other grassroots organizers. And so really reaching out to those folks, getting them energized. Again, the tens of thousands of young voters who may turn 18 during this runoff election season, like those people are all gettable. And and I think that those are where her efforts are going to be focused.

Efforts from her and the other black women organizers who really made Georgia the place that we now are all focused on. And it's so good to see you again, thank you for all your work. Aaron Haynes is the editor at large of the 19, the nonprofit, nonpartisan NEWSROOM focused on gender, politics and policy. And she's an expert on all things Georgia. Make sure you follow her on social media and follow the 19th. A reminder that we are expecting more election results from Arizona tonight, which could lead to that state being called for Joe Biden.

We expect those numbers within the hour.

Stay with us. We have new updates on the number of new coronavirus cases reported today. One hundred and fifty nine thousand five hundred and one cases have been reported so far today that exceeds yesterday's tally of one hundred and forty eight thousand three hundred and two. These numbers are too big to imagine, but this is the ninth day in a row that we have seen numbers above 100000. Look at how they are multiplying today. We also had one thousand one hundred and thirty six deaths reported in the United States.

This needs to change. That does it for us tonight.

We'll see you again tomorrow on The Rachel Maddow Show weeknights at 9:00 Eastern on MSNBC.

Hi, it's MSNBC's Ali Velshi. You know, these days there's just so much news to wrap your head around. It's hard to know what's most important. That's why we're updating MSNBC Dotcom with a special feature on our homepage called MSNBC Daily. It's a place where you'll find the same type of expert analysis you're used to getting on TV. But now with a new written perspective section all neatly organized in one place so you can go beyond the headlines and get a deeper understanding of the stories that matter most.

You'll find perspectives written by people uniquely qualified to write them.

People you're familiar with from our network, like Barbara McQuade writing about legal matters. Dr. Kavita Patel weighing in on public health. Liz Plank giving her take on women's rights and gender issues. And I'm excited to share that. I'll be writing some pieces of my own. So visit MSNBC Dotcom today and look for our new feature, MSNBC Daily.