Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people with their money, their work and their relationships. Whether it's friends, romantic, whatever you got going on in your life, we are here to help. I'm John Deloney, joined by my great friend, Rachel Cruz. And we're here to take your calls on just about anything. Triple 825-5225 Triple 825225. Let's go out to Johnny five in Phoenix, Arizona. Hey, Johnny, what's up?

How are you doing today?

I'm good, man. How about you?

Not too bad.

Outstanding. What's up?

All right, I'm going through the baby steps and I'm looking to maybe kind of work them around. Basically, my income is about 82 80, and I just paid off about $25,000 worth of personal debt and it freed up about $3,700 a month. And I wanted to find out that I have about $16,000 worth of credit card debt. And I have it targeted to have those paid off in about three to four months. And it still leaves me with that 15% that I could apply to it. And I was wanting to find out. One is, is it okay to invest that, or should I take that 1242 and still attack credit cards? Or could I turn around and still start the investing as I'm attacking the credit card debt?

How old are you, Johnny?

I'm 47, and I think that's the call to action.

Well, yeah. Well, I was just curious where you were, because here's the deal. How much interest are you paying on.

Those credit cards combined? It kind of varies and stuff, but half of them, there's probably about ten of them that I have, and the most expensive or the most debt that I have on one of them, I think, is like 3500. The rest of them, no.

But what's the interest you're paying?

Yeah, what are you paying on those?

Do you know what? I really haven't calculated it, but if I had to guess, the average ones are probably close to 18, 19%, 20%.

Yeah, that's what I was probably going to guess. Because here's the deal. The baby steps are in order for a reason, and you're going to have opportunity costs on either side, but you're going to come out better when you eliminate debt. You're not paying that extra interest of 20, some of the credit cards up to 22%. I mean, it's wild, the interest rate right now.

Right.

And so what you're doing is you're eliminating that, not just the fact that it's debt and it's risk. But also from the mathematical standpoint, so much interest that's paying out versus, and then once you pay all of that, then to press play and go and invest and then on average 1011 percent that you'll gain, but you'll be able to invest more and more consistently without having these credit cards. So without a shadow of a doubt, Johnny, even with your age, it is still the answer of yes, take that extra cash, pay it off quickly and stop playing the credit card game. I mean, have you eliminated and cut up and gotten rid of the ten credit cards?

Yeah, essentially I committed plastic surgery.

Good. Yes. Yeah, that's awesome. And again, I know it can feel unnerving not to be saving for your future and having retirement there, but here's the deal. You're going to be able to knock these credit cards out so quickly with your income and everything. And like you said, the biggest one is like $3,500 or whatever it is. So it's like being able just to have that motivation and paying off those smallest ones and getting them out. And then that frees up so much. Just space financially with margin, but also space emotionally just to know that you don't have that risk.

I want that to haunt you that you're 47 and you're not putting money into retirement because you're still cleaning up old mess. Let that be the jet fuel that gets that nonsense out of your life quick.

100%. Yeah, that's what I've done. I've already paid off like two of them and I know that they compile interest and so I'm trying to compile my payments. So I took the smallest one or essentially the smallest two, paid them off and then I'm just attacking them. I actually have them labeled one through twelve or one through ten, whatever they are, and I just plan on doing it. And then every time that I pay something off, if it was $100 that I paid towards that card that I paid off, I would put it towards the next one up. And so I've been compiling the payments in that aspect, but I'm still sitting here looking at this extra money and I'm like going, gosh, why can't I just go ahead and start investing it?

What's your next biggest credit card you have to pay off?

Next one is going to be 22, 95.

Pay it off right now. Right now.

Okay.

By the end of this show, you should have that one knocked out because you got 3000, what, $500 burning a hole in your pocket. Pay that next debt off now. You've just knocked one out. Now you have nine left, right? You're just going to keep knocking them out, right? Get them done, man, for sure.

And then I've got two houses right now. My one house is paid off that I live in, and then I have a rental that actually brings in some passive income.

You're passively going broke, too. Sell that house. Can you afford it?

Oh, yeah. Hands down. The payment is like $450 a month. I bought it as a foreclosure. I paid like $45,000 for it. It's a stick built on a little lot in a rural area. And I've had renters in it for five years now. Six years.

And how much total debt do you have, Johnny? Not including that extra house?

Not including the house. I drilled a well and I got some personal loans, and I got those paid off. In fact, I just paid off $6,000 yesterday.

Good.

But my monthly bills.

No, not monthly bills in all of it. Is it just the credit cards left? Was it 16,000, you said? Yeah, that's it, and that's it.

And then the $4,500 a month is what all my bills are, my electric, all that.

Okay. And any savings?

Yeah, about 15.

15,000 in savings? Yeah, it could be more, but I would. No, dude, honestly, what I would do is because with the baby steps, again, you have $1,000 emergency fund, and then you take everything else. So honestly, Johnny, you could be almost debt free by the end of today.

Today.

And that's what I would do. I would go down to a $1,000, pay everything off, and then start saving that back up, and then that changes. It's out of order. I feel like what you're doing, you're.

All over the place, everything all at.

Once, and you have great progress. Because I'm like, you're making great money. You're motivated to do stuff, which is great. I just think just tilting that motivation and going in one direction versus trying to do 18 different things is going to help you see more progress and feel more secure. So if you hold on the line, Austin's going to pick up and we'll throw in a copy of total money makeover, which is Dave's best selling book. But it walks you through, very simply, the baby steps. And you could read it in one night. But honestly, Johnny, just do these things in order, and you have the motivation and you have the cash coming in. It's there. It's all there. The pieces are just doing them together by getting out of debt. Building up an emergency fund, then investing in retirement. Do it in that order and you're going to do great. You're going to do awesome and pay that house off soon. $45,000 for a house. It's great.

Then you've got two paid for houses.

Yeah. One that you're going to be doing great. So just do them in a correct order. Honestly, Johnny, since the house is only that much, I would just almost throw it into the debt snowball.

I would.

That's like what people pay for a car.

Exactly. They pay more than that. And I think it's important to call out. You mentioned one direction. That's George Campbell's favorite band. It's amazing. Hey, triple 825-5225 give us a shout. We'll be right back.

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People, welcome back. This is the Ramsay show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Rachel Cruz. Taking your calls, triple 825-5225 Today's question comes from Ella in Nevada. Ella writes, my partner and I used a lot of your advice in our day to day lives and I desperately need your advice. He's 22. I'm 21 and currently pregnant. We're both in college and still financially dependent on our parents, but want to become independent to support our new family. Problem is, partner says he does not want to get married until sometime after we move in together and the baby's born. I don't want to get married just because we're having a child. But we've been dating for three years and have had this conversation before. I don't understand why there's so much pushback now and when it's more important now than ever that we get married. He claims that finances and the timing do not work out. But he knows I don't want an expensive ring or wedding. I only want to make it official. Why is he holding back? And is it time for me to draw a firm line saying I will not play house with him?

Whoa. What do you think, Rachel?

Say, Dr. John Deloney, what do you think? I mean, it's like the. I've been learning. I don't know why. I'm probably late to the game. Attachment styles. He sounds like an avoidant.

Yeah. Oh, big time. Yeah, it sounds. Man, there's so much here stressed.

I mean, he's 22.

Yeah.

Girlfriend's pregnant, you're in college. He may not have any money. The whole world changed. And to be responsible for a child and a wife probably feels like a lot of pressure for him.

No question about it. And I will say this as a guy who did. My first kid was in my late, late 20s. We waited a long time. I did not fully understand the responsibility of what was coming our way. When my wife got pregnant, she understood that immediately and I had to learn. Right. And it's not an excuse, but I didn't fully understand what was happening or how much our life was going to change. And so there is that. The other side of it is.

You.

All are 21 and 22, and now you all just got thrown into grown up land, right? Real fast. I'm just going to be honest. He may not want to marry you and he may not have been planning on marrying you. And you say we've been together three years. That doesn't matter. It might have been a college romance for him, and then he's going to move on with his life. And so all that to say is, I don't think you're talking about rings or weddings. I think you all are on way different pages. I would recommend you all go sit down with a relationship counselor, even a marriage counselor, have the conversation about how you're going to co parent and start from there.

Yeah, because, Ella, I mean, only what you can control is you in the situation. And so I would be talking to your parents and saying, hey, once this baby comes, because they're still being financially supported by parents, am I off the payroll? Are you going to still be with, how can I create a life for me and my baby? And then you have to decide, is he going to be a part of it still? Or is this a deal breaker for her to say, like, if he's not going to commit to this, I'm out. Right.

Well, let me say it like this. I've had this conversation. I can't even tell you how many times with college students and their parents, and some parents would say, you went, did this, you're out of our life. Which I think is a terrible choice. It's a terrible decision. I've never seen parents not regret that move. The other one was, I don't want to keep paying for tuition. But I also know now my daughter's going to be a single mom, dropping out of college as a senior. I understand the statistics. Tell me what trajectory that's on. All right, so I'm going to pay for an apartment, and I'm going to pay for college to get her out of. So you all sit down and have that conversation.

You just have to create your life.

Which means, Ella, you've got to move forward as though you're a single mom of a new baby and with a boyfriend. And that's the plan you have to make for housing, for childcare. And that means you have to sit down with your parents. As much as you want him to be involved, he's telling you I'm not going to be involved. And that's heartbreaking. That's sad, it's whatever. But like Rachel said, you got to deal with reality on this. Yuck. And by the way, for all those out there, Rachel, talk to people who, well, I don't want to get married yet because of our finances.

Yeah. I would never stop a life choice like getting married, even having a baby, of waiting on the finances to be in a good spot. Because the truth is that finish line can keep moving now. And can it be less stressful if you have money saved and all the things, and then you have a baby? Sure. But also, I don't want you waiting till, oh, I get out of debt and we this, this and this to start your family. Your family is like, number one, right? Like, there's a priority level in the sense of if there's something in your life, a change like marriage or a baby, just do it. Do it. And then you can figure out the.

Money piece and you can do it together.

Yes. That's the other thing.

And there's this big cultural lie that I've got to be perfect, and then they've got to be perfect, and then we come together. It's nonsense. You'll never be fully you in isolation like that. So, man, get married. Go do your thing. Yeah, the ring and the expensive wedding is kind of off the table right now. You all are two college kids that having a baby. So if you're going to do it, let's just do it and we'll do the other stuff later. But, yeah, it's time for you to, a, draw firm lines, and b, you've got to start getting your life in order because you got a baby coming, whether this deadbeat is going to be in the life of you two or not. And, yeah, there we go. We'll go out to Tampa and talk to Beth. Hey, Beth, what's up?

Hi. So I have a question. I am following the baby steps, currently in baby step two, trying really hard to get the rest of my debt paid off. Most of the debt I have left is in my car, so I am looking to get rid of it and get something that costs a lot less so I can get out of debt faster. But I am upside down on the car loan, so I'm not sure the best way to go about getting rid of this.

Sure. How much do you owe on it? How much is left on it?

I owe about $18,400.

Okay. And how much is it worth?

I was just at the dealership the other day and talked to them. They said they would probably only take like nine or ten for it.

Okay. And dealership is the more expensive route. Or you're going to get less of the money for that car at a dealership because they have to do a markup, because they have to turn around and sell it, inventory, all of that. So your best bet is through a private party. But how much do you make a year, Beth?

Just under 60,000.

Okay, you know what, Beth? Keep the car.

Keep the car. Pay it off.

Yeah, and pay it off. You're fine. Because our rule of thumb is if you can't pay it off in 18 months or if it's more than half of your annual income, that's when you have way too much card. And it's going to be hard to get traction and progress, but with these numbers, you'll be able to do okay.

I guess the other part of it, why I'm trying to get rid of it, too, is because I actually have a Kia. I'm not sure if you know about the problems going on with them right now, but I can't get it insured. And for me to be able to get it insured, it's like way out of my price range. It's a ridiculous amount of money to try to get it insured. I'm at the point where it's time to renew my policy, and I really am having trouble trying to afford the insurance on it. I was trying to get rid of it.

Okay. Yeah, all insurance is through the roof right now. So yeah, you do want an insurable.

Car, but what about a Kia makes it uninsurable? I've never heard that.

So they've been having a lot of issues lately. There's certain models, and I think mine is one of them, that they were not made with some kind of security system like anti theft. And they're really easy to steal. I did talk to some insurance companies and they did tell me, yeah, my Kia is the problem. They're not insuring. Kia's almost a lot of insurance.

And did Kia not have a recall and to fix?

I'm not sure.

Yeah, you can't have an uninsurable car. All cars have to be insured on the road, so there's got to be some. My goodness.

And in a sense too, though, Beth, I think that, I don't know, you'll have to run out the numbers, but taking an $8,000 hit on a car just because of insurance doesn't sound worth it to me. Right. So again, I would still shop around. And again, all insurance is up right now. We're seeing that across the board in almost all states. It's a lot. And so, yeah, I would hate for you to take an $8,000 hit, though, on something that you're going to be able financially to pay off. But again, I don't know what the insurance is telling you. How much are you paying now and how much are they quoting you?

Well, right now it's like almost $500 a month for just my one car and just me as a driver.

And how much are they quoting you for the future?

It's about the same. It really hasn't not gone up too much, like maybe a little more, but it's hard because I had paid it in full before. So now that it's, like, time to renew, I can't afford to pay it in full again or like the monthly. So I didn't have the monthly insurance payment before.

Call our friends at Xander and call a local endorsed local provider in your area. I just got a message from my brother in law, family member this morning that said he reached out to a local Elp for the first time and they knocked $300 off. It was a great crew.

Yeah, they shop all different companies.

Amazing.

Not just one specific. So yeah, check out xander.com through Ramsay.

And a local endorsed local provider. Thanks for the call, man. And we need to dig into this Kia gate. This episode is sponsored by Betterhelp. Listen, if you can't even remember the last time you had half an hour to yourself, be honest. Ask why. It's probably because everyone else's schedules, priorities, and emergencies are driving your life. And when you can't keep carrying that load, talking to a professional therapist can be a game changer. Therapy can be a place to work through your challenges with time, boundaries, commitments, and your own self worth. Therapy can be incredible for figuring out what even makes you happy anymore and how to go make that happen. If you're thinking of starting therapy, try betterhelp. Because therapy isn't just for people who've experienced trauma, it's great for building skills to be the best version of yourself. Betterhelp is completely online, so it's flexible enough to fit your schedule. Just fill out a short questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. Learn to make time for what makes you happy with betterhelp. Visit betterhelp.com deloney today to get 10% off your first month.

That's betterhelp he lp.com DeLONEY all right, folks, a lot of you have questions about taxes. We get it. They're confusing. You don't like paying them. It's kind of like the government says, hey, we know how much money you owe us, but you figure it out and send us a check. And if you're wrong, then you have to go to jail. We know that it's the worst, right? And people say, here's a question from one of our listeners. We normally have someone do our taxes, but our accountant retired. I think we have a simple return. Should we try to file ourselves with Ramsey smart tax? You can for sure use a software like Ramsey Smarttax. If you feel confident filing on your own and your situation is relatively simple, we recommend working with a tax pro. When you had a major life change, like somebody retired, you got a big inheritance, you adopted a child. Or if you own a business, or if you're not confident about filing your own taxes, or if you just want to save time and stress and just outsource it to somebody else. If you're confident about filing your own taxes, head to ramsesolutions.com slash tax.

You're going to have Ramsey smart tax with low upfront pricing, no hidden fees, no trying to sell you something on the back end so that we can all get richer. Everybody shakes hands on the front end of this deal. Or you can connect with a Ramsey trusted tax pro again. All of that can be found@ramseysolutions.com Slash tax let's go out to the Utahs in Salt Lake City and talk to, well, my Michelle. What's up, Michelle?

Hello there.

How are you doing?

I'm doing great, thanks.

Excellent. What's up?

So I have a question. My husband and I, we own two homes, and our primary home is paid off. It has about $550,000 in equity. And when we have an investment property that we owe about $90,000 on, and that equity is around $700,000, we have both of these homes in an irrevocable trust, naming our daughter as a sole beneficiary. It was set up that way originally because my husband's son was not in our lives at the time, but he has since come into our lives. And my husband originally approached me and said, hey, I want him included as a beneficiary. We need to change the irrevocable trust. I was in agreement that he should be a beneficiary sometime in the future when we demise. But recently he came to me and said that he wants his son actually to be able to move here to Utah. And the only way for him to be able to afford to do that is if we give him the rental property. And so I'm not in agreement with that because I don't think it's wise from a financial standpoint for us. We don't have any other assets. We don't have any debt, but we also don't have any other assets.

So we're not in a position to really be just giving somebody a property outright.

Yeah. How old is his son?

His son is 40 years old.

And why isn't his son able to afford to move where his son wants to move?

So they do have a home where they live. Where we live is very expensive. The average home is between, he can't.

Afford to live there.

He can't afford to live there.

He can't afford to live here.

Yes.

And that's why my husband is like, well, he can if we give him this house.

Yeah, dude, that doesn't sound good.

And what about your daughter?

And that's the other thing, too. She would be in agreement because she just wouldn't want to be confrontational. She'd be like, okay, that's fine if that's what you want to do. But of course she's going to be hurt if he's given a house that.

She originally thought she was going to $700,000 of equity. I'd be pissed. I'm sorry. $700,000 what? Yes.

We have a greenhouse on the property and my husband is wanting to create a CSA in the future. So his other thing was he said, oh, he'll be here to carry on my name and keep the greenhouse.

It sounds like a husband issue more than the sun issue.

Dude.

This is 100% a husband issue. Here's what it sounds like. Sounds like he is trying to buy back lost years and you can't do that.

Yeah.

That's my feeling too.

You can't do that. You're going to throw money into a fire pit and. Don't do it. Don't do it. He's going to compromise his relationship with his son. He's going to compromise his relationship with his wife and his daughter. It's just going to become a mess. If he wants to rent this house. If you all want to rent this house to him even at a discount. Fine. For a season. But it also sounds like if he's back in the picture. You fighting for. No. We have a will and it's only one kid. Well, if there's two kids in the picture then maybe you all need to sit down and redo your will. But this whole thing is a much bigger conversation.

Yeah. The will is one thing. Giving them just a house right now when he can't afford.

Yes. That's just madness. You all can't afford it. He can't afford it. Nobody can afford this.

Right.

And your husband wants to make up for lost time and be around a son. I totally understand that. The problem is this gnarly, ugly reality called math doesn't work because this is your retirement.

Is that what you were saying? That you guys don't even have a lot like this is it. Right.

Our primary home is paid off and both homes have a lot of equity. We have some gold, some silver, a little bit of that. But yeah. We don't have anything else. When we retire we'll depend on our Social Security.

Yeah.

Why would he give away three quarters of a million dollars of your financial future?

Because he's emotional to a 40 year.

Old who I think he originally is. Like we probably aren't ever going to sell this property because we're going to put the greenhouse on there and we're going to have a CSA. But we don't know what the future brings. We don't know if the CSA will be successful. We don't know if we'll ever need to live in that house and sell this house. There's a lot of we don't unknowns. And I feel like is your husband a gardener?

Is he a gardener?

No, he's not a gardener. He just recently decided that with the way things are in the world and.

Awesome, I would get a third party involved. Michelle. I would sit down with a good therapist or a counselor. And you guys need to hash it out, because, again, when you get down to it, what John said, I'm like, it's not even like the house isn't the problem. It's everything underneath. It's the motivation behind it that's unhealthy.

It's him watching a lot of YouTube. The way the world's going, we got to start our garden up. Yeah. Hey, listen, I know it's Rachel for, like, as a guy who lives on some acres outside of town and has gardens, we've got enough produce. We share with all of our neighbors. My wife's amazing, but even she, after last year, canning, jarring, we've got jars and cans everywhere. Our neighbors are gaining weight. She said this year.

From the fruits and vegetables.

Yeah, from the vegetable. She said, I'm not doing that this year. That's crazy, right?

That's what I told my husband. We don't know that. His son, he may come here.

So much baggage and so much wound.

I mean, he's anxious.

He's anxious so much there. And I really would. I would sit down with her party because he's not listening to you, his wife. And the fact that y'all aren't a team and an agreement is always a red flag. The red flag goes up, and that happens in every marriage, right to a point, like, something goes up yours, Rachel. And it's perfect. We agree on everything all the time.

And I don't want to be the bad stepmom that didn't let the son come live here because I'm not a math.

The math isn't mathing.

As the gen Zers, you're the planner. You're the wonderful, sturdy human being who's saying, hey, I don't want to give away three quarters of a million dollars to a 40 year old man who has a job and a family of his own.

Right.

And that we need to figure out. And if he wants to move here and he truly wants to move here, then we can certainly help facilitate that and figure out how to do that. But it can't be.

This is. Let me flip it in reverse. My parents live in a great house in Texas, in central Texas, in a small town. They are talking about moving to Nashville. Their living experience is going to be radically different. And they know that. So if they move here, it's not going to be apples to apples. Right? Because living in Nashville is infinitely more expensive and living in a small town.

Groceries and restaurants, moving around, real estate.

All of it's different. So there's just a reality to it. And that's why Rachel, like, what she's saying, is dead on. None of this is happening in reality. That I'm going to start a gardening company and save my neighborhood, and then my son is going to carry on our legacy. By the way, this son that I didn't have much of a relationship because he cut me off or was out of the picture or whatever was going on back then. And so let's go ahead and give him a three quarter of a million dollar house. Forget the will, forget the trust, forget our joint kid. We don't care about that person. We're just going to deal with. All this is in madness. And this is a guy who is spinning out. Spinning out. He needs to sit down and talk to somebody. You all need to talk to somebody and begin to paint a picture that is rooted in reality.

Yes. And there's such a beautiful redemption part of this story. Right? I'm like, they've reconnected.

Yeah.

They want to be close to each other, like in even proximity of living close. Mean, all of it is so good, but just do it the right way. And throwing a house at the situation of someone that can't afford that part of the country or that part of the state, it's going to do more harm. And then in the meantime, fracturing relationships, possibly with your daughter, with you, Michelle, because you're not fully on board, all of it. So there's a right way for this relationship to be healthy and so good and what a gift, right? What a gift. But just don't let the money be the mudding it all up.

This is the Ramsey show. We'll be right back. Hey, guys.

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This is the Ramsay show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Rachel Cruz. Triple 8825-5225 taking your calls on money, life, relationships, parenting, all of it. Let's go out to Oklahoma City and talk to Brandy. Hey, Brandy. What's up?

Hi, John and Rachel. How are you?

Good. How are you?

Good. Okay. So I'm really nervous, but I just started baby step number two, and it's super overwhelming. But I did have a question regarding one specific debt because I don't really know what to do with it or where I should place it.

Go for it. What is it?

Okay, so it's a debt settlement company. And it was for a credit card settlement. I've paid two off. I have two that they have negotiated that I'm currently paying. And then I have two that are unsettled. So I don't really know if I should because I'm really scared because I don't want them to take my money and run without paying for it, without paying them off. So I don't know if I should wait until they settle the last two or if I should just try to get out of it or how to do that. I'm just really confused.

Is that your only debt? Are these four?

No, it is not my only debt. I have 110,000 total in debt.

Okay. And what are the last two? What types of debt are they?

One is like a small bill to at and t it's like $300. It's not very much. And then it's a credit card to Wells Fargo.

And how much is that one?

It's 4272. And that has the one that has not been settled yet.

Okay. And those two, though, are the ones that are not settled, correct?

Right. I guess would be still in negotiation.

Okay. And where are you guys at in that negotiation? Because I would hate for you to pay on it. And you guys settle for a less than amount. Right. In writing that that's the amount you actually pay for. When do you think it'll be settled?

So the estimated settlement date is like September or October. Okay. I'm expected to graduate the program is what they call it in June of 2025. And if I were to continue to just make some $220 payment that I make a deposit into there every month, it would be like 3000 something that I would still owe. So I have included the 4200 into my total debt. I know if that gets negotiated, it'll go down, but I'm not really sure how to navigate that. If I should just continue to just pay on it, like the minimum payment or if I should throw. Because it would be pretty quick into my debt snowball if it was just this amount. So I'm not really sure where I should put it or what I should do in regards to.

Right. Yeah, well, the $300.01, that feels like it could just be settled, right. I'm like, you could just pay it off and it would just be gone, right?

Yeah, I think so. I can probably get that one done. That one kind of popped up on me, like, a few months ago, and they kind of just took it over. So I could probably get that one taken care of. Okay.

Are you able to get out of this? What kind of program? When you said I'm in a program until 2025?

Yes. So I started a debt settlement program. It was November of 2020, where basically all of my credit card debt I just gave to them settling it for me.

Are you in a contract with them or are you able to get out of this whole thing? All of this?

Yeah. I don't actually know on that. I'm not sure how they work. I had gotten a divorce, like, four years ago, and I was kind of in a hard place and I didn't have any other option. But now I understand that it's not a good thing. It's already happened, so I can't really do.

Well, you can, though. Your path forward is you taking back your autonomy, taking back your power in this. Okay. It's your money and it's your bills. If you've signed a contract, like Rachel said, you've signed a contract and there's no way out. But I would want to know how much you've paid off since 2024. Years later. My guess is you've been paying money into a goat, like, into a hole in the ground, and then you're still going to owe a whole bunch of money when this is all settled.

Yeah. And with their fees.

Yeah, plus their fees. So they've just burned your credit to the ground. They've burned your ability to get yourself out of this to the ground, and they've taken their fee money, and you're going to get done. You're still going to owe $90,000 on all this.

Well, is it just the four debts that are with them, the two that are settled, and then the two that are unsettled?

Yeah. So I started with seven. I have paid three of those off over since I've been in the program, two that I'm currently paying on that they've negotiated, I've made 22 of 24 payments on one and 28 of 36 on the other. I'm not sure why they divided up like that, but that's the number.

So what I would do, Brandy, is I would call them and just say, hey, I went out. I went out, and what can I do? And you may get charged a penalty for that, whatever it may be. But I don't want these people. These people don't need to settle for you. You have the debt. We're going to figure out a plan with you right now to pay it all off on your own without them. I just don't want them part of your life. And if you can just get out clean, and some of the money for the last four years may have been going into a black hole. And we just call that stupid tax that we do things, and we're like, I don't know why I did that, but I did. It's where I was. And now we're going to move forward. So I would call them today, brandy, and just say, stop all the negotiations. All of it. I'm out. I'm done. Can you just give me everything back in my name fully, even the way.

They call it you graduate as though you're getting. That language is so manipulative.

All of it. Okay, so, Brandy, walk me through, because you have a lot of debt, and I want to know the whole picture. Walk me through every piece of debt that you have.

Okay, so between me and my husband, our total take home pay is right at 100,000. It's like 99,000. And then my total debt is 110,060. 6800 is student loans, and my student loan payment is the highest payment of anything I have, including my rent. So I'm trying to figure out a way, because that just overwhelms me, and I hate it.

Sure. And then the other four debts that you have with this is. And those are what, again?

I have 33,000 in auto loans between three vehicles. I have a vehicle. My husband have a vehicle, and then he has a child with a vehicle that he pays on.

Okay, how much are I owe?

Twelve on mine. He owes four on his. And then the child's vehicle is, like, 18,000.

Oh, my gosh. How much could you sell that for? Or it's his child. I'm guessing this is a second marriage.

Yeah. I'm not sure if I would be able to, really, because that was his.

Gift to his kids.

So I don't really know if I want to try to. I would just rather pay that debt. Don't I don't know that I would rather.

I don't want to get you. I hear you. But also, Brandy, you have to realize that when you are married and you guys are together in this, that if you guys can combine everything, and when I say that, it's like we're combining debts, we're combining incomes, we're combining budgets, like we are all one. You basically magnify sometimes the debt because one person has the student loans, one person doesn't. But you also magnify the opportunity. And there's something about locking arms and doing this together. Brandy, that's really your best shot of getting out of this. The fastest and the most efficient is when you and your husband together say, we're on this plan to get out of debt together. And it's not just Brandy over here spinning her wheels and trying to figure all this out. And so how willing is he, just, in general, to do this money stuff? He's.

He's very on. I. That is one thing I have not talked to him about is specifically that vehicle. Okay, so that's one conversation we have, and maybe that's on me for avoiding that just because I'm conflict averse. So maybe that's part of the problem, but I could have that conversation with them.

So your conflict aversion. Maybe you are, but let this be the moment, right? A conflict aversion. You hired a company to deal with some of your debts, and it's cost you a lot of money and a lot of time and a lot of heartache. There's particular debts on the table in your home right now that you don't want to talk about. And you can create a story about how, hey, you know what? That's really not mine to talk about. But as Bessel Vanderkolk says, your body's keeping the score on this one. Okay? It knows that you're not. All right? So put all the debts on the table. Let's go through all the debts and.

Talk to him that you're scared. I mean, Brandy. That you're stressed, right? Like, come with him and just say, I want to do this together. And I just feel like it's an uphill battle, and it's not. You guys can do this. You can, but bring it forward.

The money you make and the amount of debt you owe. You can do this. Y'all can do it. Hang on the line. We're going to send you financial peace University total money makeover as our gift. That's 1 hour in the books. We'll be right back on the Ramsey show. Live from the Ramsey headquarters in Franklin, Tennessee, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people with their money questions with questions about doing work that they love and their life and relationships. I'm John Deloney, joined by my good friend Rachel Cruz. And we're taking your calls on just about anything. Give us a buzz at. If we don't know an answer, we will make one up. Let's go out to Sacramento, California, and talk to Austin. Hey, Austin, what's up?

Hey, how's it going, guys? Thanks for taking my call.

You bet, man. We're partying. What's up?

So, a little bit newer to the Dave Ramsey show, and I've been listening to the podcast the last couple of days, so just a lot has kind of come out.

Hey, welcome to the cult, my friend. We're glad you're here. We're glad you're here.

Thank you.

So what's up?

So I have about $90,000 in student loan debt. Just a little bit of out of state tuition, being irresponsible, and I'm currently getting my MBA right now, too, and I'm a little more than halfway through. I also have a car loan that has about 12,000 left on it, and the value is about 16,000 or so. I don't have any credit cards anymore. Got rid of all the credit card debt and credit cards. I have about $18,000 saved up right now as an emergency fund with about 10,000 of it in a high yield savings account and the other in my checking and savings. It's a lot, but 10% going to my high yield savings every month just to save up for tuition, so I don't have to add to the student loans, of course. And then I also have my 401. It does up to a 4% match. I'm contributing 10% right now. So my question is this one to start. Should I keep putting money in my 401K right now? Either the 10%, the 4% just to get the match, or none? And then the second part of that question is, if I get aggressive, I can probably pay off my car in, I think, nine months to a year or so when there's about two and a half years left on it.

But if I were to pay on my student loans right now while I'm in school, it would go directly towards the principal. Which one should I go after?

What are you doing?

And then I do have a little. Yeah.

What do you do for work?

Consulting. Management consulting.

Okay. How much are you making base is 84. Okay.

What are you in school for?

Getting my MBA.

And you have two years left of that? Correct.

Next spring. So a little less than a year.

Okay, good. And you're able to cash flow the rest of that, like, as you look out, you won't be taking on more debt for that?

Yeah, if I save the 10%, it'll cover about half of that. So I can pull out of my emergency fund and do it. Just looking at the baby steps.

Rachel is going to walk you through this, brother. But here's what I want to say. You are a driven smart guy. And so we are totally team Austin. Here's what I'm seeing from a 30,000 foot view. You're in it. There's bullets flying. There's smoke everywhere. You're in it every day. You are trying to do everything all at the same time, and you're slowly leaking money everywhere. You are paddling so hard. The way you are paddling is so admirable, but you're not getting anywhere because there's water coming in all over the place. Does that make sense?

Yeah.

Okay. So Rachel's going to outline it for you, but you're going to have to make some short term sacrifices to get where you want to get. And when you get there, it's going to be much better upon arriving. Okay.

Got it.

I do have one quick wrinkle to add to it. My fiancee inherited some money and she offered to pay.

No, don't do that. Don't do that. If you take her to the courthouse this weekend and get married, then it's y'all's money. But until then, don't take her money. Don't take one penny of it.

Got it. I want to do that anyway.

Perfect. Okay, so you owe twelve on the car, but it's worth 16.

Sell it tomorrow.

Okay.

Here's what I would do, Austin, if I woke up in your shoes, because that's always kind of how we frame this scenario. If I woke up in your shoes tomorrow, I would take maybe 2000, 3000 out of the emergency funds, and that leaves me with 15,000. And I would add that 3000 to the 4000 that you will get when you sell your car. And I would go get like, an $8,000 car and I would pay cash for it.

Okay.

And be done with that debt completely. Like you're done. So, okay, so then you're down to 15,000 left in your emergency fund. I would pause investing completely, and my next focus would be to do anything I could to save up 100% to pay and finish out your MBA. That would be my next goal. And then once you are completely out of school, all is good. Then I would start attacking the 90,000 in student loans. Okay. Because. Yeah, while it would go to the principal, which would be. That's great, obviously. But you don't owe it, obviously, until after graduation. And so my number one sole focus would be to get my MBA without taking on any more debt. And then once you're out of school, do you think you guys will get married soon after? And I'm not asking because of the inheritance. I'm just asking in general.

Yeah.

We have a date for next year. Next year?

March. Oh, awesome. Okay, so right before you graduate, you'll be married.

Yes.

And how much does she make a year?

It's a little variable. She left her corporate job. She is doing life coaching. So the low end this year will be 50. The high end will be like 150.

But she hasn't made 150, though, yet, right? She's made 50.

No.

Okay. Yeah, but the hope is that it's a little bit more than that. Okay. So you guys will be on the conservative end because you said your base was 84. That's a base. So I'm like, once you graduate, everything. I mean, you all could be close to 200 together. Right. I'm like 150 ish. But, I mean, it'll climb, hopefully, your opportunities so much. So you guys could knock out, and then with her inheritance, all of that. Knock out that 90.

You'Re debt free in 18 months.

Yeah. Will she have any debt coming into the marriage?

No, she's had her car for 17 years and never had a credit card.

Okay. Wow.

All right. Get out of debt and get her a car in 18 months. Okay.

Okay.

But the order is important, right? Because the debt, that's just kind of just biting your toes on the car is then leaning, and you're going to make a choice about, well, then I got to pay this. And so then I'm going to go ahead and take out another student loan just for MBA, but then I'm going to pay the principal over here. And you're just zigzagging back and forth. You're like a punt returner that's running all over the field. You're just not making any forward progress.

Yeah. Get north and south.

That's right. Go downhill. So let's knock the car out. Done. And, honey, guess what? I'm buying a $9,000 car. That's how much I love you. And she's going to say, I have this inheritance check. Can I just buy you a nice car? And you could say no. And by the way, she's going to respect you more in the long run that you're like, no, I dug a hole. I'm going to get this thing cleaned up, and then we're going to go to school debt free. We're going to knock that out, and then we're going to just crush the rest of it, and we're going to be good to go.

Yeah. How old are you guys?

Okay. I'm 30. She's 33.

Okay, so great, because I'm like, I mean, seriously, Austin, by the time. Gosh, you guys are.

Be debt free.

36. Yeah. I'm like, you're going to have two car. You'll, by that point, replace cars, be debt free. Killing it when it comes to your jobs and your careers. And then you'll be putting money towards retirement after that. It's just amazing. You guys really will make so much progress, but it's just one thing at a time, and I want you to feel some of that sacrifice now, but make it the goal to finish out the NBA with just cash. And, yeah, you guys are killing it. Great job, Austin.

This is the Ramsay show, triple 825-5225 it's triple 825225. Listen, check this out. Join us in Nashville at Ramsay headquarters for our brand new event, total money makeover weekend on May 10 and 11th. It's going to be a party in one weekend. You're going to get a crash course on everything we teach about money with all new stuff. Now, here's the deal. Millions of you have joined us in the last couple of years. Like the last caller who said, man, I just went down a rabbit hole. I've been listening to all the podcasts. I'm trying to figure this all out in real time. It's like drinking from a fire hose. This weekend is for you. Okay. Is the 25th anniversary of total money makeover.

Yes. Or 30th?

30Th?

25Th.

For you millennials out there, the book was written before you were born, and it still works.

Millennials, Gen Z.

Whatever, you youngsters.

Yeah, millennials are in their 30s.

All right, good job, millennials. All right. Hey, it's for you. It's for you. The book is getting a complete overhaul, but the principles are staying the same. It's going to be a live taping of the hit podcast smart money happy hour. We're going to have live interactive Q and A's all throughout the weekend. I think Rachel and I are gonna do a money marriage thing so it's gonna be a wild party. Dave, Rachel, me, George Campbell, Jade, Ken Coleman, and probably some surprises. Like always, when you get in a Ramsey event, don't wait to get your tickets. Platinum plus already sold out, but you can get platinum or VIP tickets. If you get them now, go to ramsaysolutions.com events. Total money makeover weekend, May 10 and 11th. All right, let's go out to Indianapolis, Indiana, and talk to Keeley. What's up, Keeley?

Hey, thanks for taking my call. I was calling. My husband is obsessed going debt free, but he won't take one step at a time. How do I get him to take one step at a time?

Oh, my gosh. What do you mean?

What does that mean?

Yeah, what's happening?

So we have about $65,000 in consumer debt, and he just thinks it's possible for us to get it done in just a few months. Is it just not realistic for us? No.

Have you all sat down and made, like, a plan on paper?

We have.

We sat down. We started doing budgets, making some cuts that we needed to do, and the 65,000 isn't even what we make half a year.

So where does he get these numbers from?

He just sees all this debt, and they start running in his mind.

They're flying at him. Okay, so what is he doing, though, in reality? Is he, like, selling stuff? And you're like, whoa, that's our couch. Don't sell our couch. Like, what's he doing?

Yeah, so that's kind of the thing. He's willing to sell it all. He's willing for us to sleep on.

An air mattress at this point.

But we have been selling things. He picked up a side job. We're doing the work towards it, but we haven't even done step one. He skipped step one. Said, the emergency fund. We'll get to it later. He's like, I got to get rid.

Of these credit card debts, so I.

Got to get them now.

Oh, my gosh. I so appreciate his enthusiasm. Okay, so how much do you guys make a year, Keeley?

About 115,000.

Okay. And you have 65,000? Is that what you said? In debt? In consumer debt, yes, in consumer debt. Okay, 65,000. So you'll have no money saved right now. Like, not even $1,000.

We have right at 700.

Okay, so, yes, he needs to bump that up to 1000. Again, being specific on your end, because you're calling us saying he's obsessed with it. Is it that because you never see him? Is it because it's all he talks about. What's annoying you.

That's all he talks about. He's not sleeping at night. The conversations. We can't have a conversation about our kids, even the evenings without him being like, well, there's money signs already flying out the window.

Okay.

All right. So here's what I think is important. Is he a guy that gets this way about a thing and it goes away in three months, or is this a new husband for you?

This is a total new husband.

Okay, so he didn't like when little league was going to start the first year. He's like, we're going to crush. He's not that guy.

No. I mean, he's been the type to always check his bank account to see where he's standing with his money, but never to this extent. We're checking it thousand times a.

So he's just, his body flipped a switch and it's game on. But it's like atomic game on.

Yes.

I'm afraid he's just going to go start running and he's going to be that guy who picks up the fumble and runs the wrong way.

Exactly.

The wrong end zone.

Yeah. So I think it's a total mindset shift in your household. And there is a level of momentum that he's actually probably feeling with his money for the first time ever. And I don't know, this is so stereotypical, but the way we've usually talked when it comes to men and women with money, for women, a lot of people, and this has been through research, that our number one fear is security. And if the money is not good, I don't feel safe. Right. Like there's that deep feeling for a guy. It can be a sense of, like we've said, like a scorecard or there's.

A sense of safety, but also shame.

Yes.

I put my family in this hole and I'm getting us out today.

Yeah.

So there's like a motivator that he has keely, that you may not have.

Right.

There's something in him that suddenly the light has turned on and he sees a way out and it is like he's not stopping. So what I would want you guys to do is to be in agreement that you may keely for a hot second, just smile and nod as he talks about the dead all the time and the budget all the time. And you just say, okay, but your life choices and how your family is set up, you guys need to be in agreement on because it is not fair for you to say, yes, the kids I have to make lunches for school. And here's the budget for the groceries. It's like, no, you got to spend only $20 this month. And you're like, no, literally. That's not realistic. So he has to have reality. A part of me is like, I don't know, good for him.

I'll tell you, I am somebody who gets overly zealous about a thing, okay? And I'm going to tell you, here's how my wife has kept us married without her going bananas is when I get overzealous about a thing, she will sit down and she'll say, hey, every conversation is becoming about X, y or Z. You get one or you get three. And it's a joke and she's never held me to it. And if you know her, she's funny like this, but she'll say, you get one, John.

Right?

I'm going to listen to one new thing about some new weird nutrition hack. I'm going to listen to one thing about some new doctor. Yeah. Cold. Like, one more thing about ICE baths. You get one a day.

Right?

And so here's what I would love to see. How long has he just been tasmanian devil about this?

Since December.

Okay? So here's what I would love you to do. I would love you to set up and say, honey, I want to take you on a walking date because we're not going to spend any money, but we're going to go to a park or something like that. Or we're going to go get coffee and look at him and say, we are spending $9 on coffee. And here's what I want you to do. I want you to take a spreadsheet or a plan or your budget or whatever it is and tell him, I'm so proud of you for being a part of this change. But I also feel like I'm losing my husband. I need my husband back.

Okay?

And if you can communicate to him in whatever language you all use, not an accusatory, but in the same way he feels panicky and shameful about the hole he quote unquote dug for his family that he's so insane to get out of, I want you to communicate that same fear that you're losing your husband. And we're going to make a plan. We're going to make a budget. We're going to stick to it. We're going to use the everydollar app. Do you all have every dollar?

We do. Not yet.

Okay. It's going to be my gift to you. I'm going to give you the premium version for a year. Okay, thank you. All right, so you all going to use that together? But that way he doesn't have to check the banking accounts. 24 7365. Any expenses will just pop up on the app.

Okay.

And you all will be in partnership together. And you can tell them with a smile on your face, you get one. We'll talk about the debt, snowball or money once a day. Okay. But we have to learn to live in a rhythm now. And we have a map here, and the map says it's going to take us 23 months to pay this off. Talking about it a whole bunch every day does not accelerate that. 23 months. Maybe you get in a second job or a third job, maybe that will.

Or if there's a raise at work and a bonus, I shake your hand. That's going to the debt. Yeah, dump it all on.

We just did that.

Both of us took that step.

Awesome. But the kids still get to play soccer this summer, and the kids still get to go to church camp, et cetera. Okay. Just build it into the budget. Okay, perfect.

Yes.

All right.

Thank you.

Hey, he's lucky to have you. He's lucky to have you.

I know.

We'll be right back.

Thank you.

Welcome back to the Ramsay show. Triple 825-5225 taking your calls on money, life, work, all of it. Let's go out to Austin, Texas, to the five one, two and talk to Jacob. Hey, Jacob, what's up?

Hey, guys. How are you all today?

Fantastic, brother. What's up?

Well, I've got a few questions for you and hoping you could provide some clarity here. I've got a few brokerage accounts, one of which being a crypto account totaling to about $50,000. The question is, should I allocate that towards a $48,000 vehicle loan, as well as chip away at $200,000 in student loans?

$200,000. What was your degree in?

Yes, that was my wife's anesthesia degree is the vast majority of that.

Okay.

I'm not going to tell you to get student loans, but that's pretty good.

What does she make in a year?

She makes 209, and I make about 100. So we're just shy of 310 annually.

Okay, well, that's the good news of all of this.

What kind of car is this?

It is a Chevy Tahoe.

Okay, awesome.

And is that the debt? Just that and student loans.

Student loans, in addition, would be a mortgage. We purchased a home in October.

Okay. How much do you guys owe on that?

320.

Okay. Yes. So I would. When you cash that out, there may be some taxes implications there, right. But the rest, yeah, I would throw. Pay that off. Exactly. And then I would just lower lifestyle and get this 200 the student loans knocked out. I mean, if you guys could live on 100,000, this could be gone in twelve months.

Yeah, sure.

We have another vehicle as well that we actually just paid off yesterday.

Good. Congrats.

That's awesome.

Can I tell you, if it was me, I'd probably sell the Tahoe. It's an amazing car. I love them. It's been one of my dream cars for a long time. Does it have any sentimental value or could you get rid of it? I know you're going to roll your eyes, but could you just camry this thing for a minute and get all this debt cleaned up?

It's certainly a possibility. We purchased it about three months ago.

Okay, what's it worth now?

Family has grown. I would have to assume roughly the same. We don't drive terribly much, so I would assume 50 or so.

How big is your family?

We just had our second daughter a few months ago.

My parents raised all three of us in a Camry. Hashtag. Just saying. But I know the world's different now, but I'm so proud of you guys. You all make killer money, and you all didn't go bananas with your house. And that tells me that you all are really wise. And so, man, that wisdom, if you take that wisdom and just say, I know that we make $300,000, but if we live like we just make 100, we can change the entire trajectory of our family. Think about just having that. You make 300 grand, you have no payments except for your mortgage. You can knock your mortgage out real quick. And you're talking about, you all are going to be stupid wealthy. You see what I'm saying?

Sure.

You all could get out in front of this thing really quick with just a year of hard sacrifice. And by the way, not hard sacrifice. You know what I mean? But living well below your means, you all could really turn the tide on this sucker.

Okay, so just so I'm clear, you would advise to sell everything in crypto as well as any brokerage accounts. There's also a $10,000 Roth ira that.

Don't touch that.

Yeah, leave that one.

That doesn't have the penalty. That doesn't have, like, if it's a.

Retirement account, leave it alone. Yeah, but in my house, if I had $50,000 in a brokerage account with crypto in it, that would be gone before the day is over.

Okay.

And John would sell the car. I honestly am on the fence with it. I'll just be a little bit.

Yeah.

It has nothing to do with your salary to car income ratio.

It's just getting out of debt as quick as possible.

I would be more haunted by the debt than I would be by a smaller car.

Yeah, sure. And then would you still advise maintaining, if I'm not mistaken, baby? Step two of $1,000 emergency fund. Right now we have $5,000 in that savings account. So would we whittle that down another four to get to the one?

Yes. And just throw that. Anything extra you guys have at that.

$200 and let that. Dude, I know it will haunt you. It'll drive you crazy. Let that be the gas that dumps on the fire that you all just say, honey, can we do this in one calendar year?

Okay?

Can we just be bananas for one calendar year? I'm willing to drive a Camry or not a corolla that's probably too small for everybody, but I'll sell the Tahoe if we can just knock this thing out. And let's put all the money towards this. Can we take extra shifts? Whatever it's going to take. Let's just do this real quick.

Yeah. And realistically, Jacob, if that's the route you guys take, you'll take that 4000 and put it towards another car. Right. Because you'll be selling the Tahoe if you sell the Tahoe. Yeah. But then you have the 50,000 in the brokerage account takes them out of that, too.

Okay. And then I also have another paid for vehicle. So I don't know if that would have any merit in this conversation.

So you have a third car or just two?

No, sir.

The one that you just paid off. Yeah, that's fine. I would just keep it.

Yeah, keep that car. Unless it's a $75,000 car. And you think, well, man, we could sell it, buy two Camrys and take that 50 grand. Now we're dealing with 150 grand in student loans instead of 200,000.

No, it's a silverado. It's 35. $40,000 vehicle.

Yeah. You got to keep your truck, dude.

Don't go too far.

He's a Texas male. It's part of these men.

It's in our DNA.

Yeah. I don't want to be totally unreasonable. Jacob, sell her tahoe, you keep your truck.

Oh, my gosh.

Of course. Yeah. She can do the worst case scenario.

I'm out this call. I'll hang out with your wife.

Yeah. Rachel, she's not buying any of this. No. Quite honestly, I'm going to be a martyr on this one. I would keep my wife's Tahoe and I'd sell my truck. But whatever y'all decide to do, you don't have to sell either of the vehicles. It's just going to accelerate everything. Just think of it this way. The faster you get out of debt, the faster y'all can go start going to restaurants again. You can get that emergency fund built up where you can breathe, where she can breathe. Where you don't have to worry about kids falling down and eating stitches, which they're going to need. All that stuff. You just begin to build peace into your home. And you can start building peace after you quit running for your life. And you all just running for your life right now because you got 250 grand clawing at you. A car company and a student loan company are telling you two what you all are going to do with your lives tomorrow.

Right? You have to let somebody else's asset.

That's exactly right. You are working for them right now, making them wealthy. And y'all have worked too hard, y'all are too smart, you're too accomplished to let somebody else get wealthy off of your hard work.

Okay, well, thank you guys so much for your time. And I can't thank you enough.

Yeah, man. I'm proud of you, man. Congratulations. That's awesome.

Yeah. It's funny doing the show with different personalities because you get different levels of what you'll do. Like what George will do, what Jade would do. It is so great. So, yeah. Back to that, though, not to confuse anyone, it is. When we talk about cars, if you can pay it off in 18 months and or it's less than cars in total is less than half of your annual income, then that's all good. But to John's point, when you're in this and just about making choices, yeah, it's $250,000 staring at you. And when you can take some of that and say, oh, my gosh, this percentage could leave right now, this percent, this, by these radical choices of selling cars, doing stuff. That's where you see progress. It really is.

Yeah. And again, I'm so haunted. You've been around me when I'm not well, when I'm kind of just out of my mind. I hate owing people money. And so if I sit down and my wife and I put it all on paper, and in twelve months, if we live radical, we could do this. It almost baby step twos. It again for me, I'm going to burn a hole through my mortgage. I'm going to burn all this stuff out, man. If it is a matter of me driving a Tahoe or a Camry and we don't owe any money.

Twelve months. Twelve. Yeah.

Shoot.

That car is gone. It's gone.

Yeah, right.

Totally.

It's out of here.

Totally.

If it's going to be two years, three years, Tahoe is a sweet ride.

It's a sweet ride.

All right. Hey, this is the Ramsay show. Triple 825-5225 we'll be right back.

Keeping up with the stock market and all the investing opinions out there is exhausting and is probably steering you in the wrong direction. Building wealth shouldn't be this confusing, and it doesn't have to be. On May 21 and 22nd, we're doing a brand new virtual event on the number one topic you've asked to learn more about investing. For two nights, I'll unpack everything from my playbook you need to know about investing. Mutual funds, real estate, 401 ks, all of it. I can't wait to dive into this with you. Plus, you get to submit your own questions for me to answer live. And since it's virtual, you can watch this right from your home. I know investing can be confusing, but you can feel confident that you're investing the best way for your future. Listen, I don't care who you are or how much money you make. It's never too late to start building wealth. Early bird tickets are just 199. Get yours@ramsaysolutions.com Investing essentials before the prices go up.

We are back. Triple 882-5225 I'm John Deloney, joined by Rachel Cruz, taking your calls on life and money, everything you got going on. Hey, listen, if you're like me, you see the congress spending, you see the political infighting. You see your neighbors are like, hey, I got this new car. And you know there's no way you can afford that. And it's just frustrating because you're watching the whole thing go down, and you love this thing, this country, your neighbors, your friends, your community, and you just wish everybody had this information. You don't have to buy anything. It helps your neighbors. It helps your friends. It helps people you've never met by simply leaving a five star review by subscribing to the show by thumbs upping it or whatever the device you're doing says, how do we know that you like this thing? Sending an episode or a particular call to somebody that you know needs this call? The more you pass it around, the more it kicks it up into the algorithms and puts it in your neighbor's feed. And that's how the show grows organically. Word of mouth, church by church, person by person, neighbor by neighbor.

And we're getting the message out that, hey, we're unplugging from the matrix. We're done letting other people get rich off our backs. We're taking back our autonomy. We're not going to owe anybody any money. And that way, we can do kind of what we want. And so, please hit the subscribe button. We're super grateful for you. Send episodes to your friends, doesn't cost anything, and you can really change the country from the inside out. Let's go out to Charles, right down the street in Franklin, Tennessee. What's up, Chuck?

Hi, guys. I have a life insurance question.

Bring it, man.

All right. I'm 60, and my wife is 50, and we have two adult children. We have 800,000 on my life and 250,000 on my wife's life. And they're both in term policies that cost us about $530 a month. I'm wondering if we need that much life insurance now that our children are grown up. And our net worth is about 2 million, but that includes our primary residence, and we have no debt.

How much do you guys have in just cash or retirement accounts? Actual money, not assets.

In a house, in retirement accounts. In 401. Combined, we have $560,000.

Amazing. Well done. So there gets to a point, yes, Charles, where you do become self insured. And so it really is running out the math for you guys to say if something were to happen to you or to her and that income is not coming in, where does that leave us? So, for you, how much do you make a year?

I make 125,000 a year. She makes 78.

And she makes 78. Okay. And she's 50, is that right?

Yes, she's 50.

Okay. You're in a really great spot, I mean, almost to that point. And so I would just run out those numbers for you guys. I would sit down and say, okay, if something happened to her, would you be okay on 120 for however much longer you want to work or you need to work in order to be fine, which you're going to be. You have a paid for house and $560,000 in retirement, right? You're going to be fine.

That 560 every seven years will double, right?

That's right.

I'm planning to retire until I'm 70 as well.

Okay, so at 67, that's 1.1, right. And what, 74 it's 2.2. And that's just in your. I mean, you'll be withdrawing from that, obviously, but how much longer are you insured under your policy? You got to be getting close to the end there, right?

Yeah. Another eleven years on my policy.

Okay. That's a little bit longer than I thought. So you bought that sucker early.

Yeah, I did. I've always been kind of afraid of dying, and I did have a heart attack a year and a half ago. But I set these things up when my children were young.

So let me ask you another weird question. Sure. I call it peace of mind tax. I pay for certain things in my life simply because it helps me sleep at night.

Right.

And I don't mind paying $5 a month or $10 a month on several different things because it helps me sleep. Can you afford this payment?

Yeah, we can. We're maximizing our retirement accounts with money left over so we can still afford this if we want to keep doing it.

That's my question for you, is if you just had a health scare, you have this thing and you have no payments. You all are making upwards of $200,000 a year. If it's me, I'm just speaking honest truth here. Forget the math. The fact that I know that my wife would get almost a million dollars if I were to go and I got real close to the edge just a year and a half ago, I'd pay that money. I'd pay that money every month until they quit letting me do it. Okay, but again, that's not a math problem. I want to sleep knowing that that woman that I've dedicated my life to is going to be able to do nothing if she doesn't want to, she's going to be able to do whatever she wants and or needs to do in the event that I go.

Right.

So that's not a math problem. But that's just.

And I. And I'll say it, too, because again, we can go the math side. Charles and I think you guys will be fine. I think you'll run out the numbers and realize we'll be good. But Winston and I, we could be self insured. And it's exactly what you're saying, John. And we still have life insurance. We have term life because I'm like, we're young and we're healthy, it's inexpensive and we use Xander insurance. We always get a great rate. And it's like, why not? Why would we? Yeah. So if we're seeking truthfully, that's what I'm doing. But again, mathematically, Charles, if you both are really secure and you're like, Mal, we don't have that, we're fine. If something happened and that income went away, we're going to be okay. Because truth is, you will be. You will be. You have a paid for house. You got plenty in retirement. You will be fine. But it's just that peace of mind. And maybe it's vice versa. Maybe you cancel hers and keep yours. Because maybe she's like, nope, Charles, I still want some money in case something happens to you. Or maybe you say, yeah, just in case something happens to her.

I don't like it may be one or the other, even you drop one, keep one, drop both, you're fine. Keep both. So, yeah, it's a peace of mind play at that point, because you are, at this point, self insured.

And here, along that same line, Rachel, just to put this out in the world, and, Charles, I'm going to use your situation to just have a broader conversation. My household can only run. I can only do what I do, be on the radio all day. I do my show. I do media in between, and I do this show. And then get on the road and travel and speak and then write books out of hotels in the middle of the night and early morning. I can only do that because my wife is incredible doing all these other tasks. So we are absolutely intertwined as a gang. We're a team. And so if something was to happen to her, on paper, it looks like, well, all the money is coming from, or most of the money is coming from here. I would have to hire people to backfill the role she plays.

Right?

Does that make sense? Forget the connection part. Like, just the day to day, she runs everything. She's amazing. So she's the CEO of the whole property, of the whole place. So all I have to say is, like Rachel said, y'all fit factor in. What would it cost to replace just the duties, right. Someone to take care of X and Y and Z. I don't know how y'all have it broken up in your home, but that looks different for every family. But just the reality is my salary is only possible because of the work that my wife does. Right.

Great point.

Because we work together on this. So it's easy to just look at the dollar amount, but it's often a bigger ecosystem.

That's right. Totally. Yeah. And, Charles, I'm so glad you called, even for this question, because you're a great example, Charles, for people watching or listening. Because sometimes John and more than not. When we talk to people about life insurance, it's on the other end of this. It's a young family with little kids and a husband dies in a car wreck, and there's no life insurance. And it's compounding the worst stress that you could ever imagine. And so all of you out there, you need life insurance. If someone is dependent upon your income, you need life insurance. And so term life, exactly what Charles was is it's inexpensive. You guys, obviously, the younger and healthier you are, the less expensive it is. But go to Xander, shop some rates. And it is a gift. It is a gift to give your family. When people don't have life insurance and something happens, it magnifies. I mean, it doubles down everything, all those adjectives, onto a situation where you just can't breathe.

I've been to both sides, and I think I've told you privately there's a particular hollow look in the eyes of a wife whose husband has just died. And she says, I got to go to work on Monday. I know we don't have anything. Or the other scary is she looks and goes, I don't know where anything is. And I had a friend whose husband passed away, and he left a significant amount of money on a life insurance policy. And she got to go to counseling and got to grieve and got to be with the kids wherever they needed to be. What a different trajectory. Absolutely. Get life insurance. Get it, get it, get it. It's another hour in the books here on the Ramsey show. We will see you soon. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people with their money, their work, and their relationships. I'm John Deloney, joined by my great friend Rachel Cruz. And we're taking your calls on just about everything. Triple 882-5225 that's 888-25-5225 let's go out to Charlote, North Carolina, and talk to Hannah. What's up, Hannah, where are you? Here. Right there.

What's up, Hannah?

Hi. Thanks for taking my call.

Of course. Thanks for calling. What's up?

Yeah, my question is about our house and whether it's okay to sell it or if we should sell it. It's a little bit of a complex situation. We bought the house two and a half years ago, and it's a 1940s home that needs a lot more work than what we had anticipated. So it's going to take us longer to update it than what we had anticipated. But along with that, we have a lot of really great neighbors. But we also have one really awful neighbor that is really making me want to move. But we want to make a good financial decision and not just an emotional decision.

Okay.

But sometimes emotional decisions aren't bad. Are you unsafe in your home?

I don't know. I think we're okay.

I can hear in your voice, tell me, what makes you think you might not be safe?

It's with a neighbor, the neighbor that you're trying. What's going on?

Yeah, they're hostile and aggressive and a little bit unpredictable in how they behave towards us, particularly around one situation where they really want to control where we park or our delivery drivers park, or anybody who comes to our house parks on the public street between our homes. So much so that they've called the police on us twice for parking where they don't want us to park. What are the police? The first time he came over and talked to us after talking to them and said, hey, you're not doing anything wrong. They just make sure that you're being neighborly, which we have been up until about today when I ignored the neighbor because he comes outside and it's very chipper, and it's like, hi, how are you? But after having it run in with them this weekend over parking during our garage sale anyways, they feel very unpredictable.

Here's the deal. When I turn onto my street to head up my driveway, I want my heart rate to start to go down. And that means my marriage has to be healthy. That means my relationship with my kids has to be healthy. That means I have to have mowed the yard when I said I was going to taken the trash out, like, all the stuff. That also means I have to be at peace with my neighbors.

Yeah.

And so that's a part of the homeowner experience. Now, if you say, hey, there's no chance that we can sit down at a table and say, hey, we're neighbors, can we talk this out? If that's not possible, it's not possible. Then have a hard conversation. But I wouldn't go into debt. I wouldn't do anything stupid with my money. But if I'm tired of coming home to an unpeaceful neighborhood or unpeaceful home. Yeah, I might consider moving.

Yeah. Okay.

So the home, Hannah, what's the money situation? What equity do you have in it? Do you have money saved? Where would you go? I mean, what's the numbers around that?

I think that's part of the tension of it. I think we would have to rent. So I think the home is worth between 556 hundred. Our mortgage is about 420 on it. We do have a little bit of, well, not a little bit. We are on baby step two and we have a $90,000 and then a little bit of credit card debt for our business.

How long have you all been married?

Almost 15 years.

Okay.

What's your husband say about the neighbors?

He's overly optimistic. There's been a couple of things, like he wants me to still be friendly with them. Today when I told him, I just waved just out of kind of politeness. That wasn't real friendly with them. First reaction was awe and it was disappointed. But I told him, I just think that they're manipulating us and I don't even want to talk to them anymore.

That's a fair boundary to draw.

It's a fair boundary. And also, I'm not going to give up my dignity for somebody else.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? I'm not going to give you that.

Yeah. And that's where I'm having a really hard time because when I had an interaction with her this weekend, I was physically shaking because I didn't know how far she would escalate. So I don't want to live near them. But it sucks to have to move for just that reason alone. And it's not just that reason. I dream of something different.

If this is the case, if you were my wife and you came to me with this challenge, I would sell the house this weekend and we would rent for a while. Because here's the deal. This transition is going to come at a cost, some shape, form or fashion. And can I use you as an example not to kick you while you're down, but just to kind of paint a picture?

Sure.

This is one of those exact reasons why we tell people, don't take out a heloc because you never know when you're going to have a neighbor that wants to burn your house down. Right. And it's like, you know what? That's why we tell people do things at the speed of cash and yada, yada, yada, we sound like a broken record. But what we're doing is we're giving people margin in case something happens, which something does happen. But if you sit down with your husband and say, I don't feel safe here anymore either, he's going to go next door and say, hey, can we just talk about this like adults and come to some sort of understanding here. My wife's scared. You all don't hate us as neighbors. Can we just solve this or. All right, we're going to put the house on the market. We're going to go and we're going to rent for a couple of years. We're going to save some money up. We thought we were going to do the cool old house with lots of quirks, but we're going to fix it up. And we're not those people.

Yeah. Because is there more to be done, Hannah? More than this? 90,000 HELOC? Would you guys have to put more money into the house?

Oh, yeah.

So it kind of feels like a lose lose, bad purchase, bad neighbor situation. Right. So you guys have some credit card debt. Do you have any money saved?

Just the $1,000 emergency fund.

Okay.

So if you sold this house, you could use equity and clean up everything. Look at each other and go, we are not those people. We're not hgtv people. We thought we were, but we're not so cool. We're going to rent for two years. Save up.

You'll walk around with around 50,000 in equity. That'll go down some with realtor stuff and fees and commissions, but you'll walk away with some. And I think you guys rent for a while, and it may be a start over process for you. But again, the peace of mind is really big, Hannah. And you were, like, shaking talking to us. And I don't know if it was because you're nervous because it's me and John or the situation brings so much emotion, but I heard it in your voice, and so there is a peace of mind there. And the fact that this is a money pit of a house, it just wasn't a wise purchase. Right. So, yeah, looking at other options, it might be the case and knowing that you'll be renting for a bit. But if that brings peace of mind, that brings peace of mind.

I'm with you. I'm with you. Hey, we'll be right back. This is the Ramsey show.

All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're someone you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsay trusted agent near you@ramsaysolutions.com. Agent ramsaysolutions.com Agent.

Triple 8825-5225 this is the Ramsay show. Hey, check this out. A brand new event. Dave Ramsay's investing essentials. At this event, Dave is going to deep dive into investing. And for the first time ever, he's sharing his personal playbook on investing, including how he buys real estate. This is not just the broad principles. He is kind of bummed out, Rachel, because this is what I thought the cool part of working on the show was, is we hang out with Dave, and I'm like, hey, would you buy this? And he's like, no. And here's why. Or, yeah, I totally wouldn't. Here's why. I thought I kind of had an inside track. And now he's like, it's going to tell America.

Tell everyone.

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Hi, guys. How are you doing?

We're partying. What are you up to?

Oh, just waiting on the line. Talk to you guys. So I just have a quick question for you.

All right, bring it.

My husband and I, we have about $38,000 left on our debt snowball. And recently, last week, we had a hailstorm at our house, and our cars are considered a total loss by the insurance. It's all cosmetic damage, though. Insurance is going to give us a check for about $10,600. So we were wondering if we should put this money on our debt snowball.

Wait, they totaled both cars and all you get is $10,000?

Yes, but we drive 2011.

Allie, I would high five you.

Yeah. And it is all cosmetic. It's running fine.

Yes, they run fine.

I'm throwing it at the dead.

I would. I mean, they're old cars.

You know, it's was a, uh. My husband's from Knoxville, and there was a terrible storm in Knoxville. Like, I don't know, this was years ago. And we came in for a weekend and every car that was driving down the road had hail. I mean, like, literally almost every car had hail damage. And we were laughing. Like, people just. They just cashed in.

In West Texas, where I'm from, there's one every month. There's a wild. That's just. You live there and your car is going to be all dinged up, so.

You all won't be the only one.

People treated it like a tax refund, like, we got money. And I was like, no, it's not like a gift. But, yeah, hey, I would. Allie.

Yeah.

If it was a 2022 Lexus, I might go get it fixed. But your cars are depreciated all the way out to the very bottom anyway, and so. Yeah. Get out of debt.

Yeah, that's what we thought. So we just wanted to check with you guys. So.

Yeah.

Awesome.

Yeah. Good on you.

Well done. Thanks.

Congratulations from the hail, guys. Right. All right, let's go out to Philadelphia and talk to Ma t. What's up, Matt?

Hey, John and Rachel. How are you doing?

We're doing fantastic, man. What's up?

Awesome. So I have a question. This is also vehicle related. I had a truck that I've owned for about twelve years, 2000 Toyota Tundra. And I had gotten a newer truck and was looking to get rid of that truck. And my 16 year old son was interested, so I told him, hey, it'd be awesome if you get dad's truck. He didn't have the money to pay for it all, obviously, up front. But I told him, you can make payments to me as you can. He had a side job while he's in school and he's been paying a couple of month for a little while. Anyway. He's paid probably $1,400. And yesterday he totaled the truck.

No.

He is perfectly fine, thank God. But the truck is done for and I only carried liability insurance on it, so it's going to be a loss, straight up loss. And my question is, as a dad, what should I do to help him to learn a lesson in responsibility and reality, and yet not overburden him financially?

How old is he?

I can absorb this loss, but he's 16. Is there anything I should. Yeah, he's 16 years old.

All right, Rachel. Rachel, I want you to disagree with me, but I'm going to give you, from my gut, answer. Okay.

I know. They're just so young.

And Matt, my son, is 14, so I'm right there with you. Okay? Okay. I would take my son out for lunch, just us, too, and say, we're going to talk about the truck. And I would tell my son if I had done what you did, son, I screwed up. I put you in a position to borrow money on a vehicle, and I never should have put you in that position, and that's on me as your dad. You've lost this truck. I put an object. I put debt between our relationship, and that will never happen again. And I'm the old man here. I'm the dad. That's on me. Now. You are out of a truck. You're going to have to earn your money back. And like you say, if you're in a financial position, the deal I've made with both of my kids is I'll do half. You save up and earn it. I'll double whatever you got. And so maybe you make him a deal like that, or whatever you can do, but he's got to have some skin in the game because he wrecked it. Yeah, but I think the relationship stuff, the healing there, it's got to come from you.

The debt part, you got to say, dude, I did this to us. To us. I should even give you this truck or whatever, but here we are. And what you're going to do is his shoulders are going to. He's going to say, I'm sorry, dad. I'm sorry. And you say, no, it's not your job to make me feel better. I'm the dad. I did this. I'm glad you're okay. The thought of losing you just kills me. And take this lesson. You and I are never going to borrow money again. That's what I would do if it was my kid. And there's probably thousands of people listening, millions of people going, oh, that guy's weak. You should crush him. I think you put him in a position where he's going to borrow money from his dad.

Yes.

He's 16.

How much did he give you, Matt, in payments so far?

$1,400.

$1,400. Okay. And was the wreck his fault? What was the situation?

Yeah, it was. It was a one vehicle accident, and he was driving on a gravel road and lost control.

Okay. Was he, like, on his phone? I don't even know if you want to go into all of that.

Was he on his phone? Was he texting and driving?

I don't know. I don't think he was being extremely irresponsible.

Because I'll tell you this, Matt, Rachel at 15, and I had my own car at that point because I had saved up and paid cat. I paid half of it. We did that. We did the 401 Dave thing and I got in a wreck outside of my high school with a permit. So my mom's in the passenger seat and it ends up being a five car pile up. The last car was some guy who, I mean, it was probably $1,000 car. It ends up catching on fire. The engine caught on fire and they had to call the fire department. Can I just say at 15 the lesson was learned. It was horrible. It was horrible. The whole thing I learned. And now I don't get close to cars that are stopping at stoplight. I'm very aware of the distance. So all that to say, does he need to quote unquote learn his lesson? I bet he's learned his lesson at 16. Like that sucks. You total a car. He knows. I don't know. And then there's a part of me again. I just think about my son. Such a mom with a son. I almost would say that 1400 is a credit to the future car.

I wouldn't do that. Payments to you, I wouldn't do that. I'm not quite as soft as Rachel.

But I don't know. Because I don't know. He's going to have to work hard. It's going to take him a while to save up money at this point to pay for another car or half of a car, however he chooses to do it. Matt.

But here's what's not broken. Your finances aren't broken. What's in flux right now is your relationship. Let's fix that. Let's let him know.

It was all I love, that it was on me.

Will never happen again. You and me are making a pledge from this point forward, we're never borrowing money again.

And that puts weight on the subject of debt. Heavier than ever. If my dad is telling me I did this and I will never. And you're like, oh, it is a bad thing, right? Like you're learning that lesson in real time too.

Good on you, Matt. He's lucky to have you as an old man. We'll be right back.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm John Deloney, joined by Rachel Cruz. And we have somebody cool on the debt free stage. We have Josh. What's up, man?

Good to be here. Thank you.

Where are you here from?

I'm Greenville, South Carolina, in the upstate.

Greenville, South Carolina. And I'm assuming since you're on the stage, you've paid off everything. Talk us through it. How much have you paid off?

I paid off $96,000 in three years and five months.

Wow.

Nice.

Ninety six k, three years and five months.

Making what kind of income?

From 62 to about 70 or so with a bunch of side hustles in there. So that's the base, roughly.

Amazing. So great.

All right, so tell us, how did you get connected with this wild crew of people?

Well, about five or six years ago, I was approaching halfway in my career and really wanted to prepare myself for retirement. So I'm a planner, like, way ahead planner. And I put my spreadsheets together and calculators and everything and realized I was in pretty good shape. But I looked over and I had a truck and a mortgage that I really didn't want to have in retirement.

So you paid off your house.

Way to go, dude.

Congratulations.

Yeah. 3000 of it was a truck and 93 was a house. Oh, my house.

Anyway, so you're done. Completely unbelievable. Unbelievable.

But I was wanting to pay everything off, and so I looked at the math because I just like the math part. And I paid extra on the mortgage because that higher interest rate than the truck was did that for a couple of years, and it was okay. But then 2020 happened. We got sent home. So I found a podcast and found you all. And you all said, pay off everything except the house first. So I looked at it and realized that if I really went after it, I could pay off the truck. And pretty quick. So about four months into it, I paid the truck off. It was just quick and then, which felt really good. So I said, I'm going to go ahead and see if I can do the house also. So I put money to retirement. I still did that, but I kept paying extra and extra and more and more side hustle to get the house paid off. And originally I have it paid off in January of 2025. But the more I kept paying on it. The more side hustles I picked up, I kept pushing that payoff date up a little bit.

Ended up paying it off in September of last year, actually.

Oh, my gosh. So, like a year and a half.

Or saved almost more than a year of your life.

Right.

Unbelievable. That's incredible. So what kind of side hustles did you do?

Actually, I had to write that down because I had so many of them. I'm a teacher by trade, so most of it was through that. But I tutored after school. I still do that nowadays. What got me the most money is I sell tickets to sporting events at school, after school.

Oh, yeah.

So I do that once or twice a week. Get paid anywhere from $30 to $100 a night, depending on how many games there were a couple of times a week. That adds up real fast.

A teacher paid off his house debt free completely.

And, hey, I used to do that. I used to teach all day. And then I would go work a volleyball game or sell tickets. It's miserable when you get there at 06:00 a.m. You don't go home till 10:30 p.m. Night after night after night. Right.

That happens quite a few times.

Same kids are like, oh, my gosh, Mr. Josh, why are you and their parent. And you kept doing it. And you kept doing it and you kept doing it. What a sacrifice.

I got. No, a lot of the parents because I saw them every night anyway for the game. So they say you're here again.

Okay, so how much is your house worth?

280 right now.

Okay. And how much do you have in retirement?

About 350.

Oh, my gosh. On your way easily to be a millionaire.

All right, so what are some of these other jobs? Because everyone tells us we can't do it. You can't do this anymore in modern day USA.

Let's see. I grade AP chemistry exams. I do that every summer.

That's the worst. Do you go out on the beach to do it, though?

Well, it was in Salt Lake City the past few years. This year's in Tampa, so, yeah, there you go. I'll do that.

Okay.

I did summer school last year for the first time ever. And my favorite thing, though, is my district owns a planetarium and part of a science center. And out of the blue, a couple of years ago, the planetarium director called me up and said, I see you teach astronomy. Do you want to do a public program once a month, like one Friday night a month for the public? And I said, I would love to. So I get paid the least for that because it's once a month. But that's more fun than anything else I do, though.

You're an astronomy professor?

I'm a chemistry and astronomy teacher. Not a professor, a teacher.

All right. Hey, we're going to pause this debt free scream real quick. Rachel and I have an ongoing stop now. Did we land on the moon or not?

Absolutely we did.

I knew it. I knew it. Solved.

And earth looks like this, too.

I think it's round. I don't think the earth is flat. I'm not that.

Josh, you made my whole week, man. Thank you so much.

I appreciate that.

Golly. Okay. Time back in. Jeffrey. Scream back.

Here's what I love about you in this whole situation that you're right, number one about the moon is that you took what you're already great at, what you're already doing, and you just expanded, right? The environment, the school, right? Doing sporting events. You took what you're good at, the knowledge you have. And that's where you plugged in. And that's where you end up making so much money. Our friend Jade Warshaw, I mean, her and her husband, Sam, musicians, and they did private music lessons. You find a thing you're good at and see how you can make money, right? You can drive for Uber and do all of this. But there's something about what you're saying that I think is so brilliant and so great and causes people to be creative when they have to go find a side hustle.

How many of your students would ask you, seriously, what are you doing? How many kids did you get to share this journey you're on with?

Well, I don't really talk about it at school very much because I try to get my students not to get off topic and I could talk about this forever. So I try to stay on topic for that.

I needed you as a teacher growing up because I get off topic quite a bit.

But my astronomy students, though, we talk about everything anyway because it's such a fun class. They'll say, do you see this movie the other day? And we'll talk about how bad the science and it was.

Or if they're, like, talking to a friend who just is so clueless on actual science and you can help them. How to discern friendships. Yeah.

There we go.

Josh.

Back to you, Josh.

Yeah. So, hey, what's something you would tell somebody who is, did you do this all by yourself?

I did.

Okay. So you're all by yourself. Teachers don't make a jillion dollars. And you said, enough is enough. Is enough. I'm going to do this. What do you tell that person sitting at home saying, I don't make enough money. I'm all by myself. I don't have a spouse making $500,000 a year. What do you tell that person?

Well, there are ways to do it again, there's side hustles, whether it's through school or not. There's things you can do for most schools anyway. And one thing I did when I was selling tickets, we have to gray papers all the time and do planning all that stuff, which a pain in the butt sometimes. But when I was selling tickets, it's a big rush the first like half an hour before the game starts or right after the game starts. But most of the rest of the time I'm sitting there just twiddling my thumbs. So I brought my work with me and just graded papers then. So I got paid extra for doing something I would do normally anyway.

But how do you breathe if you're not scrolling social media in all of your spare seconds?

Yeah, stay away from that. As much as I possibly can.

Good grief. They don't even make guys like you anymore. Josh, you're amazing.

I'm on Facebook. I mean, that's ancient now, but my students now laugh at me because they're on whatever's. I don't even know what's on right now, but they're on other stuff, so.

Great. I bet they love you. So someone listening or watching is thinking, okay, I'm going to do this. I'm going to try this. What would you say the key of getting out of debt is?

For me, it's have a goal. I wanted to pay my truck off quick, wanted to have my house paid off by January of next year. I had it paid off early. I want to retire, be able to retire by the time I'm 55. I'm 43 now, so I should be able to, but I'm probably still work anyway. That's still fun.

Yeah.

So it's just have a goal. Just not have to pay anybody in the other.

Here's what I like about you, Josh. You don't seem like the dramatic type, which someone next to me may have a level of that in his life, but there is something about you just do like talking to you. There's so much drama that can be associated with this where it's like just cut stuff out and just do it. And that's the vibe, as the kids would say, that I'm getting from you.

John, what are you going to go do? What's the thing you're going to go do.

Well, two things. One thing I've got a cruise this summer.

Yeah.

Also one thing I did last month, my favorite band in the world, journey, was coming through Greenville.

Don't stop believing.

I was looking for tickets a few months ago, and I was going to usually buy, like, the mid level or up level tickets just to get in the show, but I realized I don't have a mortgage payment anymore, so I splurged. But I sat third row center and had a blast at. It was so much fun. It was a great time.

Somewhere there's a YouTube video of Josh. No shirt jumping off the stage.

Absolutely not.

All right, let's get to it. $96,000 paid off in three years and five months. Serving your community. You did it. Housing, everything. My brother, teacher Josh. Let's hear your debt free scream.

Three, two, one. I am debt free.

Hey, Rachel, you said something so important. If we could all just strip the drama away and just go do the thing.

Just do it.

Just do the thing.

So good, Josh.

You're my hero. My brother.

Well done, Josh. And thanks for being a great teacher. We so, so appreciate amazing teachers. So thank you, Josh.

You can, too, America. You can, too. We'll see you soon. Today's scripture of the day is Psalms 30 914. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Your works are wonderful. I know that full well. The great Maya Angelou says, if you're always trying to be normal, you will never know how amazing you can be. That's how we know how amazing Rachel Cruz is, because she never even tries to be normal.

Oh, my gosh. You know what? Conspiracies just make the world go.

Know?

We ask the question, crash it. Not everybody.

They just destroy the world. Let's go out to Charleston, South Carolina, and talk to John. What's up, John? Hey, guys.

How are you all today?

We are rocking on to the brick of dawn, brother. What are you doing?

I'm still working. I listen to you guys all the time. And I think you were the only ones that could probably give me some good advice on this.

You need better friends, number one. But we could probably help. What's up?

I don't have too many intelligent ones. No, I'm just kidding. So, my father passed away last year, and mom's doing okay. So mom had her will written up, and I told her I didn't want to be a part of anything that she was writing. Do it on your own. We recommend a good attorney to her. To go to. When I did get to see it, when it was all finished. I feel very uncomfortable with what she did, and I don't know how to handle it. 50% to myself, 25 to my sister, and 25 to my daughter, and the house has to be sold. And I know why she did that.

Why did she do that?

My sister was a homeless drug addict, and she was homeless for about three years before I found her again. She since got her life back on track, and everything is great with her. I mean, I give her nothing but huge praise for what she's done, but she's the type of person that. She's all there, but she doesn't have a driver's license and she doesn't care to get one. She doesn't have any friends, which, whatever you want is fine, but she does go to work every day, and her job means a lot to her. She takes public transportation to and from. And she's living on the premise that the day that my mom is gone, that the house is just going to be hers.

And your mom probably is wise enough and is.

Grieved. County would get it in any year because the taxes wouldn't get paid off.

Well, your mom knows. She is wise enough to know that the worst thing I could do for my daughter is to give her a home. The worst thing I could do to my daughter is give her half of everything I have. But I could give it to my son, who I trust. And if he sees best fit to take care of his sister, and however he's going to do that, I trust him. And so what I don't want you to do is I don't want you to pass that responsibility back to your mom.

Correct.

It's going to be hard. It's going to be tough. But you know as well as I do that house was gone in 365 days.

And then what do you do? Do you just gift it to her?

No, you sell the house and you take the money. And I would probably sit down with my sister and say, here is x number of. I mean, how much money are we talking? $100,000. She would go to her, it's probably.

Six figures in the bank. The house is worth 300 ish.

Okay.

Whatever I would inherit wouldn't change any day to day in my life. I mean, I've worked very hard. I've made it everything on my own. But I'm not wealthy.

I know, but listen, you know, as hard as the conversations will be, handing your sister a check for $100,000 might kill her.

Correct?

Right.

I'm scared that would send her down a bad road.

Right.

And so it almost sounds like the conversation is one more step, which is, hey, mom, I will take care of my sister to the best I can, but let's not leave 25% to sister.

Well, to the point where I wanted to get her an apartment and I was up front at all, and then my wife's like, no, if your name is on that lease, no, just be prepared to pay for everything. And whatever she said, I agree with her. So I didn't go down that route.

But I don't know.

It's going to put me in a tough spot one day.

How old's your mom?

So she's 67, 68. But she's in really good health. She's a really active go getter type person.

Yeah. So you never know what life could bring you. But there could be a chance. Yes. But also she could be living 20 more years easy in all of this and the way life shakes out.

Correct. But I think without anything drastic, that would probably be safe to say.

Right. So there is a part of me that worrying about something that isn't imminent is one thing, but also I think it is always wise and it would be your mom's choice to do this, but we always say that once you make a will to communicate that to everybody involved. Now, a situation like this, I don't know if that's more of a gift or more of a turns everyone inside out. It gets to be a, you know, depending on how your mom wants to communicate it or if she does. But again, I know you're planning for what if. But thankfully it hasn't happened yet.

Well, correct. John, this is going to be hard. There's not going to be an easy path forward. You're going to be dealing with a sister. Is she older than you or younger than you?

So she's six years younger than me. Okay, hold on. And I was the one that brought her up for where she was. And we have a good relationship.

No, I know you do, but you have a sister who's six years younger than you that probably has no retirement, has no, or limited insurance, health insurance, life insurance, et cetera. So you are being wise to look down the road. Whether it's ten years, 15 years, 20 years, 30 years, there may come a day when you're going to be charged with the care of your sister.

Correct.

And so I think there's some wisdom in putting your cards on the table, having that conversation with your wife. I think your wife is smart for you to not put your name on a lease. I also think you need to be honest about telling your wife. I can't just let my sister go back under a bridge if that's going to be your thought process. So what do you have to do now? Planning wise to make this thing happen. But I think in some weird way, you were hoping that your mom's will would kind of not on me feeling. Yeah. And that's not who you are. You're a man of responsibility. You're a man who loves his family. You're a man who went and got his sister. Dude. And I could get choked up and hug you. We need more men like you, and there's not going to be an easy path forward. There is a path that you can plan for and don't violate you and your wife's marriage covenant. But, dude, I think it's just being wise about what's coming down the road, however hard those conversations are going to be.

I sure do. I appreciate the insight on that. I really do.

Yeah, you betcha. And also, I love what Rachel said. Keep this in mind if you come from a tough home. Growing up was tough. Sometimes we solve tough childhoods by over planning. Correct. We try to grab variables out in the ether before they're even issues and solve them before they're problems. And you're reaching way into the future. Hopefully.

Yes, correct. 100% on that. Everything, like I said, anything can happen tomorrow. But I was just wanting to try to wrap my mind around it and get my duck somewhat interrupt down the.

Road, for sure, which is totally fair. You're a good guy, man. Yeah. Awesome.

Thanks for calling. I know, because that conversation between even with him and his sister, even down the road, right. You look ten years, 20 years, and it's still like, what is a gift to someone? What is enabling someone? When is it my responsibility? When is it not? And we've had a lot of calls on this show of people, of adult children that are like, I have to take care of my parents. There was a call, I don't know if it was recent, but the parent was making like $300,000 a year and.

Just burning through it.

Yeah. And it's like, where is it your responsibility to, quote unquote, honor. Right. Your parents and all of that. You look at brother sister relationships, you look at friends, but I feel like you do a good job of just knowing what's the healthy boundary here? Because there is a boundary.

There is a boundary. And it might be, I think, where people may misconstrue. I'll just say me, if my parents have burned through all their money, I'm not going to not take care of my parents, but I'm going to take care of them in the way that I can do it. And if I can only afford X place, then that's where they're going to have to go. I'm not going to mortgage my future and my soul for some big fancy.

Taking care of your immediate family first. And that's same with John, taking care of his immediate family first so that he can and then, yes.

Well, hey, that's the third hour here on the Ramsey show. Thanks for being with us. Thanks for all the gang out in the booth, especially Taylor and Emily and the mighty Joe. We'll see you soon, America.

Hey, folks, Dave Ramsey here. You know, budgeting doesn't have to be boring. You just need a budgeting app that's made with you in mind. And that's everydollar. The everydollar app has helped millions of people work the baby steps and take the stress out of planning and managing their money. Start budgeting with everydollar for free right now. Just go to Ramsey solutions.com everydollar and download the app today. That's ramsaysolutions.com everydollar.