Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, Ramsey show. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Our phone number is 888-825-5225 Doctor John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. He's host of the doctor John Deloney show, where he discusses mental health and relationship health. And we're here to talk to you about your life and your money today. So it's perfect that he's here again. The phone number triple 888-25-5225 Mike is with us. Mike's in Houston. Hey, Mike, how are you? Hey, Dave.

How are you doing?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Yeah, I really need your help. I need your help with my financial discipline. I need to. I moved my back home this year. My parents told me that I have this year to fix my finances. I make 105,000 a year, and I'm totally in debt, 121,000 in debt. They're allowing me to pay a rent of $400 a month for the rest of the year for me to get.

Back on my feet.

What's the debt, man?

What is the debt of? Yeah, it's $8,000 in credit card, $37,000 in an auto loan, $57,000 on student loans, and $19,000 in that line of credit.

What you buy with the line of credit and the credit cards.

So the line of credit was to consolidate my debt from my divorce because I got assigned a debt because I made substantially more than her. And then the credit card, that is just that. That I've been carrying for the last, probably ten years.

When was the divorce final?

Five years ago.

Okay, so you've not done anything about cleaning up the mess from five years ago yet?

I have not.

I have mine.

That's why I. My discipline has been absurd.

When did you buy the $37,000 car?

So that was actually even worse. What happened was I actually bought a $72,000 car, and within a month, I realized that I wasn't going to be able to afford it. So I took it back to the dealership because my monthly payment was going to be $1,400 a month, and I was able to get into another mercedes that was. I could roll that negative equity to, which was 56,000. And so far, I only owe 36,000. But my monthly payment on the car is $800 a month.

So that you owe 37,000 now. And the car is worth what today?

It's probably worth, like, 20.

Where'd you get that number?

Just kind of. What I've been looking to see if I could resell it and get out of it.

Yeah. Okay. And your question is how to have financial discipline.

Yeah. How can I get my bucks in a row to be able to pay this off this year while I have the advantage to just live at home? I have a girlfriend that I'm pretty serious with. I want to start a life with next year, and she has an eight year old kid, so I want to be financially prepared right now. I don't know if my debate is, should I just save this year to get, like, $30,000 in savings and then start tackling my debt?

I think it's time you start tackling this debt. I mean, that's why your parents let you move home with the sole purpose of you getting your crap together and getting this mess cleaned up.

And they told me this is the last year that they would do that.

Yeah. So, I mean, you got, you know. And so what you need to do is work all the time, like, more than you work now. I, like. You make 105,040 hours a week, right? Yeah.

I'm salaried. I can't get over time.

I didn't ask you to do that. I want you to get another job, go through boxes.

This isn't. You're not serious about this yet. You don't need a hack, bro. You just need to do it.

What is.

What has kept you from doing this? I get. Dude, I get a year after a divorce, man. Those are messy times. You make dumb decisions. You buy a car, you get an apartment. You can't. I get that. This. Five years. You're 35 years old. You're about to enter into another till death do us part relationship, this time with a kid. Like, what? What hack are you looking for, man?

I just.

I don't know if. Because I have only $2,000 in savings, so I don't.

Here's what I want you to do, all right? You have to decide that getting this debt paid off is now a matter of life and death, because this crap, this misbehavior on your part, has stolen your life, literally. Yeah. And it's stolen your piece. And I want my life back, and I want my peace back, and I'm willing to do anything to save my life. Like, the doctor just walked in and said, you know, you're a hundred pounds overweight. You're about to die of a freaking heart attack. You got this, this and this. And if you don't drop the weight, buddy, you're dead in a year. You know what you would do? You would drop the weight, buddy. Nobody have to talk to you about how to be disciplined. You'd be scared out of your freaking skull. And you'd drop the weight, right?

Yeah.

So get scared out of your freaking skull and quit. You, you know, you're hovering around this emotionally as if it's something that is just out there, detached from you. Like discipline is going to fly in and light on your shoulder like a bird. It's not. You're going to have to just look up and go, I am sick and tired of being sick and tired. I've had it. I'm not living like this anymore. You gotta get that thing, that roar coming up from inside of you. And then you don't care what your friends think. And you will work six jobs throwing boxes at night while you make 105 during the day, and you'll sell this stupid butt Mercedes. Mercedes should be driven by rich people, not broke people. What were you even doing on the lot? That didn't even make sense. So you gotta start talking to yourself like that, okay? And go, no more. I'm not doing this crap anymore. I'm 35 years old. This sucks. And I'm not gonna do it anymore. That's where discipline comes from, is a healthy level of disgust. When the pain of the situation you're in exceeds the pain of change, your butt will change.

And until then it won't. But this pain is emotionally manifested. Meaning you just decide, I'm sick of this. And until you are, you're just gonna wander around in circles chasing your tail like you've been doing for the last five years. And that's any of us, man, we all do that. You know, I've told the story a thousand times now. It feels like during the Fauci pandemic, I ate every donut in a 50 miles radius. I looked down and they were hanging on the front of me and I went, this is ridiculous. A fat man is on the radio talking about discipline. I've got to drop the donuts. And you know what? Hadn't had a doughnut now, since the Fauci pandemic, and I walk or run every morning. This morning I did 2 miles. Yesterday I did 5 miles before I came to work as the sun was coming up because I decided I wanted to do that more than I wanted to be fat. And so I decided to lose it. And it's a decision. I got disgusted with myself. Yeah.

And I can't communicate this strongly enough. There's not a. There's not a five step program to discipline. There's not a super hack. There's not an app. You have to decide. And I'm not. Not next Friday. I'm gonna start. Start right now. That's when it starts. It's when it starts. And, hey, hang on the line. I'm gonna send you financial peace university. I want to send you the videos, and you gotta commit to watching them, and I want it to seep in. You're in your parents house. You're 35. This is your ticket out, bro.

I'm not here to be disgusted.

You gotta do it. You gotta do it.

There's a lot to be disgusted about. Now, urgent. Hey, guys. Whether you're starting on a card table like I did or well on your way to becoming a multimillion dollar company, Netsuite can help your team communicate and plan ahead better, like they do for Ramsey. Let me tell you, Netsuite really helped us get our systems together. And more than 37,000 other companies also use Netsuite to know their numbers and their business better. So check out Netsuite today and find out how they can help you become the business you want to be five or 30 years from now. And right now, you can download Netsuite's free KPI checklist designed to give you consistently excellent performance@netsuite.com. Ramsey doctor John Deloney, relationship expert, mental health professional, PhD in counseling, Ramsey personalities, my co host. Thanks for hanging out with us. So when I was growing up, a little redneck kid outside of Nashville in the burbs, these little houses all in a row had a neighborhood full of kids. And the kids would run in and out of the house and in and out of the house all day long and leave the door open. And my mother would say classic things like, were you raised in a barn?

Like, no, I was raised in suburbia. But, yeah. And so. But finally, somewhere in the heat of the summer and the air conditioning having all spilled out of the house, the heat is now full to have filled the house. And it filled her head, too. And her frustration level would reach it, and she would say, that's it. The worm has turned. We had no idea what that meant, except that the beatings were about to begin. And so we would all get scarce real fast. And not no more. In and out of the house. We were just out of the house at that point. The worm has. I didn't even know what it meant. I found out later it was Shakespeare. Who knew? Mom knew Shakespeare.

You know, your mom was a.

The worm has turned. I'm like, what does that mean? Except things are about to get ugly. So, yeah, but, you know, that's what happens. This is the secret of how you become disciplined. The worm has. That's it. Les Brown, the great motivator, used to say, people change their lives. When they finally say, I've had it. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. And that's changing your life is not a changing your habits. Becoming suddenly disciplined in something you weren't is not an intellectual exercise. It's an emotional, spiritual exercise.

Well, and nowadays, we have so much access to so many opinions, informed and uninformed. We have countless plans, and so we. We delude ourselves by researching a bunch. If I like. There's been seasons, Dave, when the time I spent researching the right workout, if I just went down and worked out, it would have been less time than I spent just trying to get the perfect. All right, what's the. What a waste of time. Right? So just go do the thing.

Yeah. When in doubt, go do the thing.

Yeah.

Go do it. Yeah. And that changes everything. So some of you listening right now, get out your credit cards right now. Cut them up right this second. It's time for plastic surgery. It's time for a placectomy. And later, you can write it in your journal that it occurred, but freaking do it.

Go do it. Or text your wife or your husband and say, we need to talk tonight. Text right now. We need to talk tonight.

Whatever that. I just cut up your cards.

Yeah, we're gonna have some. It's gonna be tough this month. But send that text right now. There's no going back. Go do the thing. Get up from your desk right now and go for a walk.

So right now, the reason I bring that back up is not to fuss at the last caller. That's not the point. The point is, this is a common thing. That is a human condition. John and I suffer from it. All of you suffer from it. How do we go about embracing doing the hard thing to get to the easy? And, John, you know, you've got a great saying. Choose your heart. Oh, by the way, you don't know this. I forgot to tell you. I was going to tell you off air, but I'll just tell you right now. So a neighbor of mine came to the event we did with Mike Rowe, and you went through the whole choose your heart. Okay. You can choose to, you know, lower your caloric intake and lose some weight, increase your exercise, or choose to be on the operating table for heart surgery from your obesity both of those are hard. Pass. Both are hard. So choose your heart. You said you did a whole talk on that. So my neighbor, who's a good friend of mine, was in the audience. He has lost 150 pounds since that talk.

No way.

It's all because of that.

Wow.

Your talk, he said, it clicked. It made sense to me. I was with him last night. Wow. And he's a great guy.

That's incredible.

Yeah, he was. He was. And he has lost a. He's lost a backstreet boy. I mean, it's ridiculous. Yeah.

He lost James Childs and James little pet poodle dog. He has. That's amazing.

James and his dog.

But I think the illusion is spinning my wheels. Gets me somewhere.

Yeah. It's hard to work extra. It's hard to not go out to eat. It's hard to stay home from vacation while your friends are going. Your broke friends are going and spending money they don't have. It's hard to live on a controlled budget like a grown up instead of a child that acts like they live in Congress and spend whatever they want. It's hard to do. The discipline is hard, but you gotta choose your heart. Cause otherwise you're gonna be broke.

And it's hard.

It's hard to stay broke.

It's hard to be scared when your kids need braces. It's hard being scared. When I remember when I was broke, broke, broke Dave, I called my friend and said, hey, do you have some money on a credit card? I gotta go to the ER, have something checked out. That was a shameful, embarrassing call I made at 26 years old. Like, that's hard too.

Right.

So you're not.

Yeah. Asking your parents to move back in. Yeah. When you're 35 years old.

Yeah.

That's hard.

Wanting to marry somebody and saying, I'm going to be more of a burden to them than not. Like, that's hard. So choose which difficult path. It's not like one's easy. One's not. That's exactly right.

Yeah. And so the problem is when you don't choose to take the steps to live like no one else, so that later you live and give like no one else. You don't choose to do the things that cause you to build wealth, become wealthy by default. You have chosen mediocrity by default. You've chosen to retire broke and hope the government will take care of you, which is well known for its ability to handle money by default. You're gonna be working in McDonald's or be a Walmart greeter. When you're 68 because you didn't choose the hard earlier, it's just gonna.

There's just no easy path.

Yeah, that's. Once I get that about something, then it's go time. Then I can go. It's game on. And I can flip the switch, and so can you, and so can everybody else. But we all have to consciously, intentionally choose to delay pleasure. And delaying pleasure is emotionally a sign of maturity. It's a sign of emotional and spiritual maturity. No. Discipline seems pleasant at the time, but it yields a harvest of righteousness. Chloe is in Grand Rapids, changing the subject. Hey, Chloe, what's up?

Hi, Dave. This is so cool to talk to you. Actually, my baby monitor. Sorry about that. My question. I am currently working full time, and my husband is working full time as well. And we have a beautiful little baby girl. She is ten months old. And I was wondering your opinion on whether or not I could basically go part time.

Okay, can you.

More. More detail.

Can you go part time?

You tell us. Well, I. After being on hold for a while, I think I can, but I guess with inflation in the housing market and just the cost of everything going higher and higher, it's a scary jump to make.

Okay, here's the deal. I mean, mathematically, I'm sure you've thought about this. Can your household operate on your husband's income and your part time income?

Our current household? Yes, definitely. However, I mean, we're currently. We're in a house that we don't want to be in for the long run. And just looking ahead, I guess maybe I'm coming from more of a place of fear, just watching how the economy is changing.

What are you doing?

I'm a school psychologist. And my husband.

What do you make?

Therapist. I make about 62,000 full time.

Okay. If you go to part time for three years and the child is old enough that it starts to. Or four years, child goes into kindergarten, whatever. Right. And then you went back to full time. And you went back to full time in order to buy a bigger house.

I probably want to have a couple kids.

Okay, then. Then you're making a choice to either be with a kid or have a bigger house. Your choice? Yeah.

You gave. You gave me the magic word, Chloe. And this is what you would tell your. Your students, your clients?

You.

You want to work part time and you want to have a bigger house.

And those two wants a bigger house.

Or a different house.

Totally fine with it. Yeah, I'm totally fine with a small house. It's more just location, a safe location. Sure. You're sure?

I'm not making any sort of judgment. I'm just. I'm just repeating your words back. Here's the deal. You have two competing wants and you have to sit down and say which one is more important to us. That's it, right?

I mean, and definitely is a mama bear. My kids are. My kids in my family are the most important.

Sure.

There's not a judgment judgment here?

No judgment at all.

People who work full time, moms who work full time are not bad moms by definition, unless they choose to be.

And people who stay in the same old maybe run more rundown housekeeping for Micah cabinets aren't bad people either. They're just making choices.

Yeah, just which choice just consciously realize. But you can't. You can't have both. Cause you're not in Congress, you don't have unlimited funds. If current times have shown us anything, it's that the least expected events can and will happen and we have to deal with it. That's why everyone who has a family counting on them needs term life insurance. For over 25 years, the only insurance company I've recommended is Zander Insurance. Not only because they search all of the top term life plans to find you the best rates, but over the years they have constantly changed and updated their systems to make the whole process simpler and easier. To get the protection needed, you can now apply with a completely touchless experience with everything being done either over the phone or the Internet. They also have plans with super competitive rates that dont require an exam, allowing you to skip a step and get the coverage you need faster. Go to zander.com or call 803 564282. Great rates and a simple process mean theres no excuse, no to not get this done people. Doctor John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. John is with us, a different John in Salt Lake City.

Hi John, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hi, thanks for letting me be on. I really appreciate and feel honored to be on your show.

Honored to have you. How can we help?

Hey, just wanted to see if a decision I made is reasonable and if there's a way out. I wish I would have met you two months ago. I hadn't really known about you and what you talked about, which I really agree with. I went and bought a new car about a month and a half ago for $54,000 with taxes and everything was 57. It was a big regret because I know what you teach about buying new cars. You shouldn't do it. I'm wondering if it's worth it. It's got 1800 miles on it. I can only sell it now for about 48,000. So it's taken that big of a hit immediately. And if it's better to take that hit and try to buy a used car, or should I just stick this out? Learn from my mistake. What would you recommend on that?

Did you pay cash?

Yes.

Okay, and what's your net worth?

About one 1 million.

Okay. Well, we tell folks not to buy a new car unless you have at least a million dollar net worth, so you didn't violate that. And what's your household income?

About 125.

Okay. Are you married?

Yes.

What's her car? What's her car worth?

That was her car, huh?

What? You good? Good man.

Well, please.

Smart man. You know the federal law. Wife gets the good car. All right. And so, uh. Yeah. And what are you driving? What's yours worth?

Mine's worth probably 15,000.

Atta boy. You're going to be married a long time, John.

Okay, so, John, the rule of thumb we use on a paid for vehicle is don't buy new unless you have at least a million dollar net worth. You did not violate that because you're going to lose $10,000 in 20 minutes and you need to be able to absorb that blow, which is exactly what happened to you. Okay, but $10,000 doesn't put you into the street homeless. It does someone that makes fifty k and has no money. But you have a million dollar net worth, you make 125,000. The other rule of thumb is don't buy things with motors and wheels all combined in your life because they all go down in value that equal more than about half your annual income. And you haven't violated that. You're right on the bubble, though.

Yeah.

Okay. So there's nothing in the guidelines that. And those guidelines are simply there to say, don't put too much money in things that are going down in value and expect to build wealth. That's what that means. Okay. And too much money is a ratio. So, you know, like, I've got a friend that makes 15 million year and he drove up in front of my house in a $400,000 car the other day. Well, it, you know, that's nothing to him, but it's. It's obviously a lot and it's obviously going to go down in value faster than yours did. And so because they. 400,000 doesn't go up either. They go down, too. So, you know, but he's. He's no dumber than you are or I am or, you know, anybody else because of that. Because of the ratio of 15 million to 400 is a lot smaller. It's like someone buying a $4,000 car that makes 150,000 a year. That's his ratio. So his ratio is excellent in that regard. But anyway, so that whole idea is to just keep people from doing this. So I wouldn't shame you on this at all. I mean, the only thing.

The only shame I would have, you know, you went through this whole thing. I wish I met you too. Well, I might have told you to buy the car if you call me and hadn't bought it. Because I think you can afford it. You pay cash for it. You've got a million dollar net worth. The total of your vehicles is not more than half your annual income. Or it's right around it, but it's not. It's not killing you. It's not, you know, you're not over in the stupid column. You know, that kind of stuff. So I think you keep it and enjoy it and don't shame over it.

Yeah, you know, I despise the car, but she loves it. But I don't know. I don't know.

Why do you despise it? Did you despise it before you bought it or because of this discussion?

One is because, you know, it's right on the bubble of whether you buy new or not. But it's just a car that has a reflection on the windshield. She drives it mostly, but it's just not a car that I would buy in it. And, you know, you teach about being together in the marriage, on financial decisions that you'd be together on. Even the purchase of a car. Right. Even though she drives it mostly.

But hold on, you're. You're putting. You're upset with her and you're putting all this onto that car. You all need to have this conversation. Cause you. You hate this car. And maybe it wasn't a car you would have bought, but you're more frustrated that you feel like you lost or that y'all. That she overrode you. Like y'all.

There's some sort of relationship.

But being together, it doesn't mean you both have to love something before you buy it. I mean, I'm building a house right now, and my wife and the decorator picked a light fixture for one of the rooms. I hate the light fixture, but I don't really care. It's a light fixture and it's. I care a lot more that Sharon is going to enjoy it. And it's swi. Sharon wants it, which is one of the rules. It's one of the rules in our house. Right. And so I acquiesce on that. I don't have to be completely aligned on every single thing, and I won't walk into that room and hate the light fixture. It will disappear because light fixtures do disappear once you buy them. You put them up and no one sees them again. You don't. People don't walk around, go, oh, there's a light fixture. People don't do it. So. And that includes me. And so I will be fine. I will forget the stupid thing is there after I've lived in the house 20 minutes, and so move on. And so you don't drive this car just because you don't like the car.

You know, don't. Don't go through all these financial gyrations to go, I got. Oh, now I got her. Now I got a way to get this car sold. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah.

Y'all sit down and have that hard conversation.

Yeah, yeah. But when we say you should be aligned on your money, it doesn't mean you both have to enjoy and every exact thing exactly the same way. Now, if someone is completely diametrically opposed to something for a good reason, we don't do it. You know, one of us, you know, when in doubt, we don't. One of us is standing up, and we're just going, no, cannot do that. It's awful. I can't stand it. We're not doing it. And then that's what. That's being aligned. But, you know, you buy something that you really love, and I really don't care for, but I care that you were going to enjoy it, then I can do that. That's a line, too.

Exactly. It's like my wife and I are aligned on concerts. The one I'm going to tonight, she has no interest in going to. So I'm going with.

She's very aligned about that.

We're very aligned on the thing, but, yeah, not. Not the actual.

So you're going with James?

No, James is gonna be at home. Even I have standards. Yeah, exactly. He's gonna be writing sad poetry about his dad in the corner.

Ben is in Detroit. Hey, Ben. Welcome to the Ramsey show. How you doing? Good. How can we help?

Yeah, I was just calling. My main question is if I'm trying to get my monthly expenses down in any way possible. I only make, like, 40 last year, like 40 to year. And I'm trying to see if I only got like seven or eight grand in my retirement. I pulled out over the years quite a bit and because of not too great decisions and Ben, what's your question? I'm just trying to see it, like, should I take the rest out just to pay off my monthly debt?

No, no. Here's why. How much is in your four hundred one k? Seven thousand?

Yeah. Okay.

If you pull 7000 out of your four hundred one k and you're not 59 and a half, you get charged a 10% penalty for pulling it out early, plus your tax rate. What do you make a year?

I only make like last year, 43.

Okay, so you're in 25% tax bracket, so you're going to get charged 25%. Plus you're going to get charged a 10% penalty. That's 35%. It's like saying, dave, I want to borrow money at 35% interest and pay off my debt. No, that would be silly. Mathematically, you would never go and give the government a third of your money in order to get access to it. Unless. Unless the house you was burning down. Unless it was in foreclosure or something. So no, you don't do that. You take an extra job, you get on a tight budget, and you clean this mess up. And quit spending every Friday night out doing something else. Go to work. That's how you clean the mess up. Ben this is the Ramsey show.

This episode is sponsored by Betterhelp. Hey, if you're like me, at this time of the year, all of the school plays and meetings and invites from everywhere have completely drained your social battery. Or maybe you're like some of my friends who are bursting with energy so much that everyone may be telling you to just chill out a little. If you're having trouble navigating mismatched energy levels, boundaries, or finding people to do life with, it might be time to talk to a therapist. Therapy can be a place to open up with someone who's been trained to listen and walk alongside you and help you find paths through the chaos of mismatched energy levels and and more. If youre thinking of starting therapy, try betterhelp. Betterhelp is completely online and flexible enough to fit your schedule. Just fill out a short questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapist at any time for no extra cost. Find your social sweet spot with betterhelp. Visit betterhelp.com deloney today to get 10% off your first month. Thats betterhelp. H Dash e Dash p.com Deloney.

Doctor John Deloney Ramsey Personality is my co host today. Everydollar is our world class budgeting app that helps you manage money. The Ramsey way everydollar simply works wherever you are. IOS, Android, online with your desktop, start every dollar for free and immediately see where you stand with your money. You'll get organized. You can personalize your budget, of course. Stop overspending, and new to every dollar will show you a long term financial roadmap. Track your net worth, debt free date, retirement date, baby steps, progress, and even more. We're going to help you work the plan, and everydollar does it. We'll proactively coach you to build wealth and reach your goals. Download the free app for iOS or Android, or go to everydollar.com and get started on your desktop however you want to do it. This is the Ramsey show. Hey, by the way, guys, if you want to help us out, we could use your help. Click the subscribe button or the follow button wherever you're doing this, whether it's YouTube or a podcast or whatever, and of course, share the link or click the share button. Let people know about it. Leave a nice five star review.

Tell people about us. When you do that, it changes everything in the algorithms. It moves this show along. And we're amazed at our rankings on apple on YouTube. Our rankings on Spotify are fabulous. And it's all because of you guys sharing it and talking about it and following and subscribing and all those good things. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We appreciate you. Megan is in Salt Lake City, Utah. Hi, Megan. Welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hi. Thanks for taking my call.

Sure. What's up?

So my husband and I and our two kids are feeling forced out of our house because of a legal situation with our HOA, where our HOA will be doubling in cost. And if we sell our house, we're wondering if we should use the equity to pay off our remaining debts or if we should put it all towards a new down payment since the interest rate is much higher now than when we originally bought.

Wow. What is your ho afi now?

400.

And it's going to 800, probably 750. Wow. Probably. But hasn't happened yet.

Nope.

So who sued the Hoa?

Basically, the HOA sued the construction company because some of the townhomes in our neighborhood have major damage. But the Hoa just lost, and so now they are responsible for repairing the foundations and roofs of the damaged homes.

Wow.

That doesn't sound right.

I mean, they sued the construction company to get the construction company to fix the things. I don't understand, because Hoa usually doesn't cover. Oh, this is a condo. It's not. These aren't. These aren't standalone homes. Okay. That's what's going on. Okay. All right. What a mess. So how much equity do you have?

So probably about 120,000 before your values go down.

Once word gets out about the Hoa fee going up and.

Yeah.

So right now. Right now it's worth 100. But once word gets out on this, you're. You're probably gonna lose some value.

Correct. The thinking of selling it now, we have to disclose it, of course, but we might have a better chance now.

Yeah, because there may be a bunch of other people going on the market, too. The market might be flooded. Yeah, I'd sell it. I'm with you on that. And you got 100,000 or so in equity. How much debt do you have?

We have $50,000 in debt.

Okay, so if you buy a house with $50,000 down and you have zero debt, what's wrong with that?

Well, since now I talked to a lender, and we qualify for about a six and a half interest rate when we bought, we have interest rate that.

Hasn'T got anything to do. The interest rate hasn't got anything to do. You're moving. So you're either renting or you're buying. You're either you're moving, you're either renting or you're buying. So your old interest rate doesn't matter. It's gone. You sold it. Okay. You're gonna buy. If you're gonna buy, it's gonna be at these current interest rates.

Yeah.

That's not gonna change.

But whether or not we put a bigger down payment will change, like what type of house we could get and what our monthly payment for that house would be. So we're just not sure what the wisest way to use that money is.

Yeah, well, your interest rate on your mortgage is going to be less than the interest rate on all your other debt, even though it's higher than the current mortgage. So mathematically, you come out better by paying off the debt and putting a smaller down payment down. You'll come out with a lower monthly drain by having an increased house payment. And so, yeah, and, yeah, the reality of this is, is that you're. But, yeah, I would pay off the debt and buy whatever house you can afford at that point with the $50,000 down. And. Listen, I. Megan, I got a feeling this has been stewing and running around like you. You guys have been dealing with the unknown and the stress of this whole situation for quite some time. And I'm going to encourage you to list your house by Friday. No more wringing your hands, no more worrying, no more wondering. Make a decision. Your anxiety level will drop immediately. But you guys have been kind of hanging up here in this. In this constant level of angst for a long time over this issue, and now you've. You've come to the conclusion it's coming.

So act on it and you will see your angst drop. Do you agree with that?

Yeah. Clarify what you're saying. So let's say she had a 2.9% interest rate. Now it's going to be six and a half. So maybe her monthly payment, I'm making up numbers here was $2,000 a month, and it's going to go to, again, making it up $3,000 a month.

No, it's not that much.

But what you're saying is. So, yeah, $2,700. What you're saying is paying off all the debt, all the car notes, everything. You're going to end up paying off $1,000 of monthly stuff coming out of your house.

And here's the thing. $50,000 at an extra 3%. Three versus six. Right. $50,000 that you don't have. Cause you paid off debt at an extra 3%. Three times five is. Fifteen hundred dollars a year.

Hmm.

This whole discussion is over $100 a month. Yeah. Difference. That's it. So she puts down another 50k, saves her $100 a month on the payment. That's it. So it's just. The math is bogus. There's nothing here. Nothing's happening here.

But there's.

The numbers are so small.

And fire about that interest rate.

Yeah, but it's like, oh, God, interest is higher. Yeah. It's $100 a month in your situation, because you paid off your debt instead of putting down an extra 50. That's what it changed it. And so, zippy, you know, I mean, in the scope of your life, that's not the problem. You got. You got a lot of bigger problems. Get this house listed. So, John, talk about the idea that when there is that the unknown or the sitting on the fence on an unmade decision is more stressful than a hard made decision.

Yeah. I think it goes back to that illusion that we. We sold people for 150 years that mental health was getting all the right thoughts in the right order. And when you have a situation like this, it'll never get in the right order. They just swirl and swirl and swirl. And so what do we do? We think. We ask more. We read another book. We go. And so instead of just doing the stupid thing, you have to act your way.

Oh, and by the way, unfollow or defriend, the Hoa Facebook group, that's the other. Quit talking about it, because that's where hell lives, is in Hoa Facebook groups. The devil. That's where he takes up resident. It's a portal straight into hell.

If a bus is coming right at you and the lights get real bright and all of a sudden, everything goes dark and you open your eyes and you're staring at a Facebook portal for an HoA group. You didn't get in. You didn't make it.

You didn't make it.

I don't. And people live on.

People live. Oh, they're wrong people. That's what I'm saying. So. And when stuff like this is going on, when a negative situation in the neighborhood, it's like, oh, it just goes.

Banana, gasoline on fire.

It's just like, whoo.

What the hell?

Unfollowed.

Get out.

Get away from that stuff and put your house on the market and sell it and get out of Dodge now. This is The Ramsey show, live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Doctor John Deloney, Ramsey personnel. He is PhD in counseling, best selling author, host of the best best listened to Ramsey network show. I can't even get it out. It's called. It's just amazing. The doctor John Deloney show. The numbers are ridiculously up on that show. Hockey sticking up into the right. So thank you, guys, for listening to his show and this one. We appreciate you joining us. Open phones here at triple 8825-5225 Demarri starts off this hour in Miami. Hey, Demari, how are you?

Hi, Dave. Good, and you?

Good. Better. Nondeserved. What's up?

So I've been watching since 2019, and you've helped me get out of debt many times. But I have helped you get out.

Of debt many times.

Many times.

Yeah. I had issues with credit cards, but I've paid them off for the most part. But the issue I have is that I got home two weeks ago from work, and there was a pack in front of my door. And I am being sued by Calvary for an old credit card I had back in 2020 from Citibank. But it doesn't say I'm being sued. It says I have to be in person for a pretrial conference by a judge. So my question is, should I go? What are the steps? Like, what's the process if I do go?

How much do you.

That card was for $7,688.

Okay, and why has it not been paid?

This was during COVID So my husband had lost his job because they couldn't afford him.

Because that was four years ago. Why has it not been paid?

Um, I had let it go into collection back in 2020, so I just haven't paid it then.

So what do you all make? Where?

Do what? I'm sorry, what.

What's your household income right now?

I get paid forty three k. And he gets paid 39k.

Okay, so you make $80,000 a year, and you figured out that not paying something and ignoring it doesn't work because it has a high rate of resurrection, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. It comes back. The zombies. The zombies are here?

Yep, it does.

Okay. How many others are like that?

This is the only one in collection because this was the only one.

How many other debts have you forgotten and have not dealt with for years?

There was another one from a Walmart credit card that portfolio bought, but they haven't sent me anything.

Okay, how much is it?

That was 5400 around there.

And I'm assuming you have no money.

I mean, I have money saved.

How much?

1000.

Okay. That's all you keep saying. Eyes your husband around. Does he have any money? All stuff. Separated?

No. We save money together.

Okay, so together we have together. All you could scrape together is a $1,000 right now?

Yeah.

Okay. All right. I am not. I'm not an expert on Florida law. A pretrial conference on a $7,000 credit card is highly unusual. I've been doing this 30 years, and I've never heard of that. So this is a new tactic of some kind that the collections attorney is using. What. What is the date on the pretrial conference?

June 10 at 01:00 p.m..

Okay. All right. If that occurred with me, what I would do is call the attorney that is suing you and start negotiating a payment plan or a settlement.

Okay.

Do you have anything that you could sell? Because if you come up with about $3,000 and offer it to them as settlement in full, they'll take it. Cause they figure you're a deadbeat. Cause you hadn't bothered to pay in five years.

Yeah, I mean, I don't have anything to sell, and I have my fast.

Can you scratch up $3,000, like, real fast, like, don't do anything. Go crazy. Go work six jobs for the next two weeks. Both of you go nuts and get some money really, really fast to get this off your back before June 10 gets here.

I mean, we could do doordash on the side.

There.

You go in the morning, and then you work all day, and then you do it until your eyes are drooping in the evening.

You go to bed for a few.

Hours, you do it again.

Yeah. He's not kidding.

Yeah.

Because otherwise, you're about to get your. But listen, here's what happens in general when you go to court on a situation like this. Here's what happens. A hundred percent of time, you lose.

Yeah.

You don't really have an argument here. You signed a contract that says, I am going to pay $7,600. You violated the contract. You're in default. Done. Guilty. Okay. And so there's no argument. It's just like, I don't have any money. I don't have any money's not an argument.

And if they add attorney's fees on top of this or some kind of court fees, you're going to end up walking out owing more than that, potentially, yeah.

And so, and so there, you're going to lose whether you go to pretrial, whether you don't, whether you settle, or whether you don't. So you might as well work your butt off right now and get this done before. And let this be the catalyst. June 10. You know, I got to get this solved before June 10. And so call the attorney and say, if I give you $3,000 before June 10, can we call this settled in full? And he's going to say, oh, no. And you say, oh, yes. And he's going to say, oh, no. And you say, oh, yes. And you argue about it until you settle on a number, right?

Yeah.

And then you go get that number before June 10 as settled in full, and get a written release in writing from him or her to call this case closed.

And if I never get that letter before June 10, do I still show up or do I not go?

You get the letter, and you give the guy the money. You settle this. You take care of this. It's time for you to proactively take care of something instead of letting everything happen to you by trying to ignore it. Okay? And so, you know, if you want to go to a pretrial conference, you can go, but all the judge is going to do is go, boom, you're done. It's gonna take about 30 seconds before you're done. Because there's, you know, there's no, they didn't do anything wrong. You're the only one did something wrong. You just didn't pay the bill. And so they're gonna get you. It's that simple. And then they're gonna take a, they're, you know, they're gonna take a judgment lien for whatever the amount of money is. And then if Florida allows it, I guess Florida does, they're gonna garnish you your wages, and then they're gonna attach, put liens on your house and whatever else. So you better go get some dad gum money together and do a lump sum settlement. Boom. 30 00, 40 00, 25 00 somewhere in there and settle this five year old $7,600 debt and settled in full in writing before June 10, and just become a nuisance to this attorney until they do the deal with you and then become a nuisance to yourself until you scratch together the money and get this done.

So, John, in 30 years of doing this, one of the things that I see most often is if you take care of something when it's a problem, instead of ignoring it for five years or ten years or 20 months or whatever it is, the level of problem it would, she could have cleared this up five years ago by busting her butt in the middle of the Fauci pandemic. There was stuff people were doing in Florida. Florida was open. And, you know, there's a lot of stuff you could have done taking care of it then, but now, five years later, we're still talking about this. Well, my husband lost his job, well, freaking five years ago. If you take care of it back then, you got one 10th the problem. You magnify your problem by ignoring it. Ten x minimum. Whatever the problem is, no landlord dispute. Whatever it is, you cannot ignore this crap. You gotta take it to ground. This is the Ramsey show. Doctor John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co host today. This is a show about you, America. The phone number is 888-25-5225 well, it's tax time, so folks got questions about taxes.

The only question I can't help you with is how to deal with your rage, because I haven't been able to figure out a way to deal with mine. So my poor tax guy, he has to bring me bad news every year. And the bad news is that I pay our ridiculous government a ridiculous amount of money. And what do I get for it? Anger?

No, you get ridiculousness. It works out.

Oh, I bought it. Yes, I bought and paid for it. That's it. There you go. Hey, question of the day for taxes, what's the difference between a tax deduction and a tax credit? A tax credit 100% applies to your tax bill. So a $1,000 tax credit reduces your tax bill by $1,000. Tax credit much better than tax deduction three x better. Because if you take a $1,000 tax deduction, that means you lower the income that is being taxed by $1,000. And so if you're in a 30% tax bracket, it actually saves you $300 on taxes. So a tax deduction is worth a quarter on the dollar, roughly. A tax credit is worth a dollar for a dollar. And that's the big difference you're looking at. So if you're confident about filing on your own because you got a simple return, you can go to ramsaysolutions.com tax and get our Ramsey smart tax software. It's very inexpensive to use, and we won't try to sell you a bunch of crap like turbotax does. They're awful. Did I say that out loud? I just did, yeah. Okay. Because it's true. If you've got a complicated return, go to ramsaysolutions.com tax and click on the ELP, the endorsed local provider, an individual person in your area that has the heart of a teacher that will help you do your complicated return.

The fees are obviously more to do that, but you get a very personalized experience, and you don't need to do that if you've got a simple return. If you're just doing a 1040, easy. Don't pay somebody $400 to do that. That's silly. Okay, but get, but for sure, you know, spend 20 or $30 on some software, right? That's the deal. So ramsaysolutions.com for Ramsey smart tax or for the ELP in your area. Katie's in Springfield, Michigan. Hi, Katie. How are you?

Good, good.

How can we help?

So my husband and I have been kind of stuck on baby step three for a very long time now. He only makes like, 40. Well, he just got a raise, so now he's making 45,000. But we have a child. Well, we have six kids, but one with severe special needs, severe autism. And we are just busy with him all the time. And I can't. I used to do daycare in the house to help out and things like that, and I can't do that now. I can't go get a job. My husband wants to be home more to help me with the kids. Since it is a high stress situation. So we just. We're having a hard time ever making enough to get anywhere. And right now we're on Medicaid and food stamps. And as soon as we make a little bit more, then we lose those. And then we, you know, we're kind of just stuck the same spot all the time.

Okay, what do you think the solution is?

I mean, I feel like we have to find a way for him to make a higher. Get a higher paying job. But in our area, he's, you know, been stuck trying to find something. And mostly everything's, like, requiring him to travel or, you know, just working second job, which then leaves me with no help with our six kids. So I just. I don't know. Like, he feels like we just keep going on welfare for the next couple years until we get. I had been homeschooling, but because of the special needs and trying to work with him, most of my kids are in public school right now except for him and the baby and my teenager, who homeschools, but the others are all in school. So he's like, well, if we can just wait long enough for the baby to get in school, then maybe you can get a job working at the school or something. But I'm like, do we really want.

To be unwell for years? What's he do for a living?

So he is a, like, a service technician. He works on, like, coffee makers and things, travels around and fixes them and installs them.

Okay, and how old is he?

48.

Okay, well, you guys have a lot going on. I'm sorry, man. I mean, you. You're a warrior girl. I'm proud of you, and you're carrying a tremendous burden. And. But. So the answer. You're right. The answer to the equation is income. And how do we get income up? Well, we have to have some aspirations to do something other than welfare. And so we have to say, okay, what do I want to be doing ten years from today? That makes $100,000 a year. The average household income in America is 43,000. I'm sorry, you make 43 is 73,000. Okay, so by definition, not by shame, but by definition, you are in a lower income household with six kids. That's like a factual statement, not an emotional statement. Okay, and so how do we fix that? Well, obviously, we change the income because we're not going to change the number of kids. Right?

Yeah.

So that. So, you know, this amounts to career counseling for him that says, okay, what is it you can do? What is it? What classes do you need to take. What tools do you need to put in your belt so that you are worth $100,000 a year ten years from now? And the path between 43 and 100 is not a singular jump, it's a progressive jump. And so the income will be going up consistently every year, year over year, as he moves through the apprenticeship or as he moves through the training, or he finishes that degree, that two year degree at the community college or whatever it is. But he's going to have to figure out what he wants to be and what it takes to be one of those and then get about the business of doing that. Sitting there doing nothing, fixing coffee makers is killing your family. Yeah, it's hard. The stress is in your voice. And I don't blame you. And he's not doing anything wrong. He's not a bad guy. He just doesn't know what to do. So I'm telling him what to do. What he needs to do is he needs to set a very clearly defined goal, to do something that he actually does enjoy and has the capability to do with maybe some training or maybe some classes or a certification.

I don't care what it is, but you can go to six months of code school while working full time and make $100,000 a year.

Writing code, being an electrician. But it was a lot of internship type stuff and not making much the whole time.

Well, guess what?

Do I take less for a while and make more later?

Or maybe we do something, but what we have to do is lay that down. And it's not just, I want more money, it's I want more money doing something I'm going to have some level of joy doing.

Yeah.

Okay. And so I don't want you to just sign up for something you hate for the next ten years to make more money. That's not the issue. But the end of the equation is, yeah, there's going to be more money at the end of that rainbow. And so we need to really clearly define and set some goals. Because the problem. The problem is not that the heart things are hard. The problem is that things are hard. And we don't see how they're going to get better. Yeah, that's what. That's what makes it triple hard. And so when I can go through hard, if I see my way to better, and you can too.

This is a strange glitch in the matrix, Dave. If a friend of mine called me and said he's in the same situation, the first thing I would. I'd probably get pretty loud and say, dude, I don't give a crap what you're doing. You got to go to work. Maybe I'm being, I'm too harsh, but, man, I'm trying to put myself in this situation. And listening to Katie's voice, I hear a mom who's drowning and a husband who's like, eh, we're good. And maybe I'm too, I'm getting callous in my old age.

But, man, he doesn't see a path, okay? And that's what he needs, a path and Katie needs a path. And that's, you know, I agree that. And then, and then if he won't get up, I'm gonna put my foot on his butt. Yeah, I'm with you on that. So. Yeah. Okay. So, Katie, I'm going to send you Ken Coleman's career assessment for your husband to take. And I'm going to send you his book from paycheck to purpose. I want him to read that book in the next three days, and I want him to take that assessment tonight when he gets home because we're going to send it to you by email right now. It's a link. And he's going to start discovering what he's going to be when he grows up. Doctor John Deloney Ramsey personality, is our co host today. Today's question comes from Patrick in Minnesota.

Patrick writes, my wife and I are in our early sixties. We have no debt and a net worth of $2 million. Both of us are retiring in the next nine months and our biggest issue is the expectation of our children and their families for support. We've been taking them on annual vacations for a long time. We give them money when needed, basically supporting their family at our expense. We've been blessed due to hard work, planning for the future and making sacrifices along the way. Is it okay to cut the cord so we can enjoy our retirement and not have to worry about their lack of budgeting? No, Patrick, I'm sorry. You got to keep paying for everything for them forever. I couldn't say a straight face. I tried. Yes, Patrick, you should have cut it a long time ago. A long, long time ago. Yes. It's time. It's time. Have a big family meeting. Don't just ghost your kids. Have a big family meeting and say, mom and I are no longer paying your bills. We're retiring. We're on a limited now. We're on a fixed income, and it's time for all to grow up.

Yeah. Sorry. I bet as he typed this, sorry, not sorry.

He was, he got upset.

You know what but he's not the problem.

No, she is.

He's trying to get us to give him permission to tell his wife that she has to quit being an enabler. Ah. What are you gonna bet?

I wouldn't take that bet. I won't take that bet.

Cause this guy, the way he worded this, he's so pissed he can't breathe.

You can feel it through the te.

Is it okay if I cut them off? It's like, sweet.

So we can enjoy our life and not worry about my life again. There kids on a budget.

I was like, yeah, yeah, you've been wanting to do this a long time, Patrick. It's overdue. And so, yeah, you have to tell your wife and your kids that we're not sending them any more money.

And here's a way to do this, Patrick.

And no, she can't sneak and do it either.

Right? Here's a way I think you can do this. I had someone that I care about call me a few years ago and say, hey, I'm retiring. And I paused and said, can you afford to do that? And that question had never entered that person's mind. It was like Michael Scott declaring bankruptcy. Like, I declare bankruptcy.

That's like, not how it works.

Not how that works. And so maybe sitting down and saying, hey, we're going to retire in nine months. Let's. Let's see what this is, what our life's going to look like, how much money we're going to have for things. And maybe the math will help your argument. Probably not, but maybe it will help you create a world where this is what our world is going to look like, this is what we're going to have.

And this is the discussion with your wife, sir.

Exactly.

Your kids. With your kids. The answer is just no. Just go ahead and sit down. Hey, we're retiring. And that means so is our sending you money. It's retiring, too. Not happening anymore. Done. And love, you. Want to see you all the time. Come over. If you're really, really hungry, call. We'll make dinner. But short of that, that's it. I mean, you be on your own. Well, your grandchildren. My grandchildren gonna be fine. And you're gonna be fine, too. People have done this for generations, like stood on their own 2ft and stuff. And now you guys get the opportunity to do it. It's pretty cool thing. So, yeah, it's up. Dave.

I didn't even see that through the. Through the lines, but I think you're right.

Yeah. I mean, he's thoroughly done. Yeah. Amanda's in Milwaukee. Hey, Amanda, how are you?

I am okay. How are you doing?

Better than we deserve. What's up?

Thanks for taking my call. So my husband and I are looking at many potential house repairs that if they go, it's going to be a problem. We have a furnace that's 20 years old that may seize up because it's slowly leaking oil. We have a water heater that's leaking that might go. We have a chimney that's potentially leaking into our roof. And we have a sewer lateral that is made out of clay, and it's leaking and causing backups. We also have $55,000 in debt, and we want to focus on the debt, but we're staring down all these potential repairs and a potential surgery for me down the road, and we're not sure how to approach it all.

What's your household income?

About 86,000.

Okay. And what's the 55,000 in debt? What kind of debt is it?

35,000 in student loans, 5000 in medical bills, and then 14,000 in a loan that we took out to repair windows because that was leaking into the wall, causing mold.

Boy, your house is a piece of crap.

It was built in 1912.

You watched too much he tv, didn't you?

They both. They don't build them like they used to. Thank God.

Gonna be so fun. We can fix it up. It's gonna be amazing.

Yeah. Yeah. Clay.

Can I. Clay.

Sewer lines.

My husband's been here for 20 years.

Boilers that leak and water heaters that leaks.

Heads are falling off. Hey, listen, when I was.

Don't you sell it?

Yeah, well, that's what my husband and I talked about. And we were thinking we could sell it and then use that money to pay off debt. We were wondering what your. What your opinion is on. Well, in order to sell it and actually get money for it, we have to fix all this stuff.

No.

And so we were wondering what. You don't.

No, you just sell it? Well, you have to disclose.

But in order to get.

Like they're going to find that they're home. Inspector is going to find these issues. But. And you disclose them if you have known issues as a seller anyway, but. And so it may lower the value. But it didn't keep you from selling it.

Right, right.

The things are all still functioning. They're just.

Are.

They're just on their last leg.

Right.

Yeah.

We were thinking, though, to increase the value in order to fix it is a cash out refinance.

People don't do.

No, don't do a cash out.

Don't. No, no, no, no, no.

Because then you're putting what's the last two legs of your house?

You just put a sign in the yard and sell it and move.

Okay.

I think your life would be.

And we were thinking we could rent until we pay off the debt. But rent is way more expensive than our mortgage. Our mortgage is like 780 a month.

Your mortgage is 780 a month plus $100,000 in repairs.

Yeah.

Renting is not $100,000.

Right.

That you don't have.

And Amanda can ask you.

And guess, what if they. Guess. What if the water heater leaks when you're renting? You call the landlord and he fixes it. It's the coolest thing.

Amanda, are you struggling with. With anxiety?

Yes.

Yes.

Here's how I know my husband.

I. Yes, I can tell. And I know that because I've been you.

You.

And when you get anxious, you start forecasting all of the potential calamities coming your way, and they feel as though they're happening right now.

Well, that's the other thing. My question, my husband was, do we need to fix this? Because these are all potential things we're getting.

You don't need to fix them. You don't need to fix them today if you stay. But I wouldn't stay.

Okay.

I think the quality of your life is going to go up considerably when you move.

And I think there's something else going on underneath. This is your marriage. Okay.

Yes, it is.

Okay.

But we have a lot of outside family stressors.

My family can almost guarantee it. And you start grasping for every shred of control you have in your life. And when you're anxious, it spins out and you can't grasp any of it. It all feels like it's piling on you at the same time. And listen to me and Dave. It's not. You can stop this particular top from spinning by putting a sign in the yard tomorrow, or you can look at each other and make a checklist and say, all right, nothing's broken yet. And we'll have to deal with this someday. We love this house. We love this location. We're gonna knock this dead out.

Yeah, but I really didn't hear that. I didn't hear. We love this house.

It's not our forever home. We hope to grow our home.

Your forever home's heaven. There's not a forever home.

Yeah.

So nobody has a forever home. This idea that you're going to live in a house forever is just dumb. Nobody does. Everybody moves. I mean, really the number of people that live in a house 60 or 70 years is almost zero. The average house flips every 5.6 years in America. So, yeah, hang on the line.

I'm going to send you a copy of building an un anxious life as my gift. I want you all to read it together. Yeah, y'all go through it together. I think there's bigger things going on. That's, y'all are focusing on this one thing and it's all coming down. It's not, it's not. It's a problem to be fixed, but it's not all coming down.

I would leave. That's what I would do. Jump online@ramsaysolutions.com. Get one of our real estate endorsed local providers that are Ramsey trusted and get the thing listed by the weekend. That's what I would do. Hey, teachers, your commitment to your students is next level. Seriously, you guys are heroes. During financial literacy month, we're celebrating you and all your hard work. We want to send you on a trip. That's right. Thanks to our friends at Ramsey education, we're excited to announce the Ramsey teacher appreciation giveaway. One lucky teacher will win a $5,000 vacation to anywhere they want to go. And two more teachers will each win a $3,000 vacation of their choice. No purchase necessary to win. The giveaway ends April 30. So enter now. If you're a teacher, go to ramsaysolutions.com teacher. That's ramsaysolutions.com teacher. Doctor John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co host today. Open phones at 888-25-5225 building a non anxious life. The book is number one bestseller that he just gave away. And John, in that, one of the things you talk about, the, what, four or five things that we have to do, right?

Six. Six daily choices.

Yeah. Thank you.

But it's, I could hear that in that last caller's voice is every time you provide a solution, it doesn't solve the problem. It actually opens up a portal to a whole bunch of other problems. And when you try to solve anxiety that way, or just a whole bunch of problems or even just a lot of stress, you end up playing whack a mole and you just hit a problem and two more shoot up and you hit another one and three more shoot up. And so really the book is about go all the, quit playing that, quit playing whack a mole, put the little hammer down and go back over there and solve these other bigger issues. And she alluded to it in the call, just asking. Hey, is everything else okay? No, it's not like there's a lot of stuff falling apart. And the beautiful thing about our bodies is, man, it'll try to get our attention and let us know things aren't okay. And if you don't. If you don't listen to those alarms, man, they'll start ringing real loud, and you'll think everything's falling apart on you when it's really not.

Yeah. So within the six daily choices, I mean, let's talk about a couple of those.

Like, the first one is choose reality, right? You got to know. You got to the starting line of the marathon you're about to run. And in her case, choosing reality. This house is not falling apart. This house is old. It's got some challenges. Um, what is true is y'all owe $50,000. Let's get that knocked out, because that's keeping you awake at night. The second one, like another one, is choose freedom. They don't get to make choices that they want to make because they owe $50,000.

Right.

So the quicker we can unhook from other people telling us how we're going to live our lives and what we're going to do, then your body goes, bankers.

Yeah. Yeah. Unhook from the bankers. Yeah.

And get some. If your family's falling apart, your family's a place that causes you a lot of pain and stress. Then get a group of people in your life. Get a good church. Get some. Some rider dies, and your body set.

Some boundaries with the crazy.

That's right.

That's right.

Yeah.

So it's.

It's.

It's. It's dealing with these things way upriver so that your body doesn't have to spend its time trying to get your attention all the time.

Yeah. And there's something else that shows up, too, and it's. I kind of. I kind of hit it pretty hard there, but it's the. Everything feels like it's forever. This is not our forever home, but it feels like it's forever. And so it's just a stupid house. There's a stupid house on every corner. Get you another stupid house and rent somebody else's stupid house until you can get a better deal on a stupid house. It's a stupid house. They're everywhere.

And if you think about it that way, it just takes all the air out of it.

Yeah. It's like a release valve versus, you know, it's a forever home. It's like a single. I mean, in a singles ministry, we used to hear this all the time. It's like I haven't found the. There's one person on the planet that God has for me, and I'm waiting on that one person. And it may take me a while. Cause there's several billion out there to find them in that haystack.

Well, think of the. Think of one person, the pressure that puts on the person you gonna date with.

Think about the pressure it puts on a house when you call it your forever house.

Yeah, or your forever car.

Your forever house.

My dream. Whatever.

It's not your forever house. There's no such freaking thing. There's not. I mean, really, you're gonna move? Most people are. And sometimes for reasons you don't want to, but, you know, we've moved about every ten years, and we built a big old, hairy, stinking house up on top of a hill that we thought was gonna be the last one and not our forever house, but we're getting all we thought. And, you know, we were. Lived there 13 years. It was a beautiful home. It was a magnificent home. It's a show place. And we thought, well, that's it. You know, we've arrived. That's it. We're on top of the hill. We did it and we're done. And then these people started moving to Nashville and they started paying ridiculous numbers, and I sold it to one of them. And then I was homeless.

Now you're a suburban guy.

Now I come birds again.

Now you're the guy walking on the street with a little dog.

I am.

Yeah, I know.

You're that guy shuffling the old man with a little dog in the morning on a walk. That's me.

Exactly.

That's me. Me and the little dog both need our walk, so shut up.

If I saw you, I would say, are you okay, sir? You're that guy now.

Oh, my God.

And I would say, get off my lawn. Here we go.

I'm gonna pop your ball, kid.

Michaela is with us in Sacramento. Hey, Mikayla, what's up?

Hey. Well, speaking of moving.

All right, you're right. You're right in the groove here, Michaela.

I am. I am. So we're moving from soccer from California to Hawaii.

Wow.

I know. In probably going to look like July ish. That's what we're shooting for.

Did you and your family sit down and say, hey, we don't spend enough money on taxes and food and housing, let's up it?

Well, the reason is my husband's father is. Has pretty bad Alzheimer's, and we don't have much longer with him, so we want.

Well, now I feel terrible for making a joke. Good for you, Michaela.

Good for you.

See, she's holy, and you're sarcastic.

I'm a terrible person. You're a good person, Mikayla. All right, so you're going to do good in the world. I'll be quiet.

So, basically, my question is, at the end of baby step two, we've got about $12,000 in a personal loan that should be paid off in the next couple months. I'm thinking probably, yeah, a couple months. It shouldn't take us very long. And when we move, we're going to be selling. We have a duplex here in Sacramento and a house that we live in, and we're going to be selling both of these properties to go over there because I don't want that debt hanging over our heads. But that basically means that we're going to be completely debt free by July, basically, when everything sells. And we're going to have about $350 in our pocket, or 350,000 in our pocket of just cash.

Okay.

So the question is, do I take that? And obviously, I'm gonna scroll some away for an emergency fund, because at that point, we'll be done with baby step two.

Good.

And then do we stick the rest of it, the bulk of it, into, like, another house out there because we're gonna be there for a while, or do we sink that into retirement? Do we split it? I'm just not quite sure what to take, what to do with that bigger lump sum, if that makes sense.

How long you think you're gonna be in Hawaii?

Well, we've been debating going over there for quite some time before the situation got bad with my husband's dad, because the area that we're going to is the big Island Hilo side, and we really want land. We want to do kind of more homesteading.

How long you think you're going to be in Hawaii at this point?

I would like to have stayed there for quite some time. I mean, I would like to be there for.

How long do you think you're going to be in Hawaii?

Ten years.

Okay, thank you. Then buy a house.

Okay. Okay.

Yeah, for sure.

Okay.

And put it all on the house and get the house paid off as fast as you can, because you might end up. You might end up spending the rest of your life there. It could be your forever home. I'm kidding. But no, you really. I would just invest there and get, you know, get rid of debt as fast as I can. I would do all these things.

Yeah, yeah. Because I'm thinking, like, the Max mortgage I'd want to pull out on anything would be about 150. I don't really want to go more than that, you know, so we could be. We would be able to pay that off relatively quickly, hopefully. I don't really know exactly what my house is.

You can buy a house? Yeah. What kind of house do you get on the big island?

Yeah. So the hero side is kind of like the new frontier. It's like dirt roads everywhere and jungle and.

Yeah, I've been there, but I had no idea that you could get anything in Hawaii for half a million dollars.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're looking at 500. 550 is kind of our max. Absolute max.

Very cool. And your income is what? Your household income?

Right now it's about 150.

Okay, good. Yeah. So pay off then. Pay off the mortgage in, like, three years. That'd be awesome. Yeah, yeah.

I just don't know if it's gonna stay that when we move there, because my husband's gonna be transferring with his company, but I don't know what his pay is gonna exactly be.

You should find that out.

Yeah, well, it's hard because he can't apply for a position until we're closer to time, so we won't know until we're, like a month or two.

Yeah, but he should know what the position is going to pay, whether he applies for it or not.

Well, the thing is, is that the. Well, yeah, it's.

Can you call somebody over there?

Yeah, he's talked to the manager, but the manager is like, well, it's hard for me to pin you on a certain job because you're not here, and I can need to fill things now. So that's why he was, like, getting. We'll have something for you. I'm sure it's just because he's, like, been with the company for a long time and, you know, like, he's a licensed electrician here. We're not sure. We're not really sure how that's going to transfer to Hawaii, because every state's different.

You need to know all of that. That keeps you from stepping in a hole. You need to get all that stuff. Let's button this plan up. Tighten up your plan.

Gotta have a job.

This is how you. This is how people call me back. I'm only moving, and then six months later, he can't work, and it's got the license.

Didn't.

Oh, God. Don't do that. Get it all straightened out before you go, kiddo. Line it up and push the dominoes. This is the Ramsey show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey solutions. It's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Doctor John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co host today. He's the number one best selling author of the latest book, building a non anxious life. He's also the host of the Doctor John Deloney show, which you ought to check out on the Ramsey networks because it's insanely popular. All right, Scott's and Roanoke to start this hour. Hey, Scott, how are you?

Great. Thank you so much for taking my call.

Sure. What's up?

Well, I have a 18 son that's.

Starting college in the fall.

He's actually transferring from a junior college to a four year college. And I got to looking into housing for him and I thought it might be a good idea, good investment to.

Instead of paying the rent that I'm.

Going to have to pay. Hey, there. It's at a, it's in Richmond, Virginia.

And so it's a kind of an.

Urban campus, you know, so it's an urban setting that it would be better for me to buy a house and.

Rent it out to three of his friends. Can you think of a worse possible tenant than four college boys? I thought about that. You can't get the smell out. You'll have to burn it down. Oh, man. You know, I looked at the exact same thing when our kids, I had three kids go through the University of Tennessee in Knoxville, which is about 200 miles from us, and Richmond's what, a hundred miles from Roanoke, right?

100 and 5150.

Okay. So about, I mean, it's out there ways. A couple hour drive anyway.

Yeah.

And so that's what I thought. I looked at the exact same thing. We were making a bunch of trips back and forth to Knoxville in those days because we had, you know, we had suite for the football tickets. We had football ticket suite and we had, so we're down there weekend for football. And that was also to go see our kids and all that stuff. And so what I ended up doing was I bought a condo for me to stay in when I went on the weekends and I didn't let any of them live in it. I paid rent for them to rent a house because I didn't want to deal with all the headaches and the liability of what a college student could do to hurt themselves or someone else doing ridiculous things that I just have memories of me in college and I didn't want to be renting to that guy. And so, Scott, I was a good.

Kid, and I did not make great choices.

Yeah, right.

All that to say, I considered what you're doing, and I decided not to do it. I decided I did. In all seriousness, I didn't want that as a tenant because I didn't want the liability. And I also didn't want the headache that it was going to be involved of trying to collect rent from these people. And then I got to clean up the house and rebuild it and put it back on my market after it's all over and try to sell it. And I just decided it really wasn't a good investment because it brought with it too much risk and too many headaches, even though it pissed me off to pay rent because I had three kids in college, never at the same time. So we were down there for like a decade plus. Right. And if I'd have, you know, if I had the two girls in there first and then. And they were there somewhat at the same time, and then Daniel would have gone down last, and. And I did have good kids, and I don't think they would have torn it up. And your kid probably won't tear it up, but I would have been me.

But are the people I ran around with for sure. But the. I made the decision it wasn't worth the headache, that the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. Sort of mine, too, for the risk and everything else. Even though I wasn't looking at one kid, I was looking at really a decade worth. And I would have made some money versus the rent, but. But not much for the time and the headspace and the resources it would have taken up to screw with it.

I think liability is an under represented risk there. A college students does one thing, man, and sues you as a landlord and. And the risk. I mean, there's a reason that that demographic is charged so outrageous fees for car insurance. They just don't make great choices all the time.

Yeah. And again, it might not be. You might have three good young men living there, and it might be somebody visiting, you know, that comes over one.

Night, somebody's got a girlfriend or something.

Yeah. And they fall out of the window or something. I mean, I don't know. Weird stuff happens. And we just had a story here in Nashville of a college kid visiting from another town that, you know, lost his life. He was downtown partying, and they couldn't find the kid for a while, and his parents were looking for him. Everybody's panicked. And he was from out of town, and came to Nashville to party and did party, and then something bad happened and they found his body later. And I just, that kind of stuff just scares the crap out of me. Right. So I, I don't think you can have enough insurance for that. So I don't want to own that property, that, that kind of stuff. Something like that. Weird. No, I wouldn't do it, Scott. All that to say I didn't do it. I was faced with exactly the same choice and a re and more reasons to do it than you did because I had a longer time horizon. Ten years worth of this stuff. Not. And three kids worth, not just one. But I did buy a condo. And I did sell the condo when we quit going down there, when I gave it the football tickets and all that and made some money on the condo.

So that worked out. But nobody ever lived there. No, none of the students. No college students lived there. No college students were harmed in the making of this film. So there we go. Larry is with us in Orlando. Hi, Larry. How are you?

Hi, Dave and John. Thank you both for taking my call and for all the help you give other people on the phone call. It's really great if both of you.

Thank you.

I have a question. You're welcome. I have a question. My kind of, my personal history, I've kind of worked smart. Not supposed to work smart, not hard. I've worked hard, not smart. And so I divide my personal life financially into two categories. Using historical term BC before common sense and ad after Dave and being. When I heard your show, I kind of like the light bulb came on and I started going, as you term it, Gazelle.

Intense.

And so for like the last, I'm retired right now, 69. I retired just over 67. But up until like about 920, I went into that gazelle mode that's going crazy, saving up and working extra shifts, picking up side gigs.

So you've got a huge net worth now?

Well, I don't know. It doesn't, I don't really know if it is.

I got, well, how much? What's your net worth?

Like, money I'm holding in the CD is getting 5.6%. 240,000. About 80,000 in my savings, about 80,000 pre Dave stocks. Pre Dave stocks. May I just bought them because they sounded cool. And then in my retirement's like, wow, 1,150,000.

I thought so. So you got a million and a half dollars or so and you're 69 years old. Cool. What's your question?

I feel now it's like I've been running the measure like you're running a sprint. You get to the finish line, you cross it and you stop and it's like, well, there's still energy left. I got more running to do it. I'm trying to be reinvesting that money I've got when it comes out of the CD. Exactly. There's a holding pattern.

You need to enjoy some of it, too, and you need to be generous with some of it. But, yeah, I'm not going to stop investing because I'm really, a long time ago, I had enough for me. I'm now investing for the next generation and the next generation after that. A godly man leaves an inheritance to his children's children. Proverbs says. So, yeah, just keep, keep building it up. It's fine. But you don't have to do it at breakneck speed. It's just being intentional, not intense. There's a difference.

And let old Larry off the hook. You've caught up. You've done good.

Old Larry's, he's gone. New Larry's. Awesome. Good stuff, Larry. Well done. Listen up. Trying to reach your money goals without a rock solid budget is like trying to climb mount Everest in ice skates. It isn't going to work. That's why we built the every dollar app to help you win with money. It's the simplest, most straightforward way to track your spending and give every dollar a job. That way, you can stop letting your money push you around and start reaching those money goals. Download every dollar for free on the App Store or Google Play. Doctor John Deloney Ramsey Personality is my co host. Well, if you didn't know, it's national Financial Literacy Month. And we celebrate that big time here at Ramsey Solutions because ever since I very first wrote a book called Financial Peace, people have been picking it up and going, why don't they teach this stuff in the high schools? Why aren't we taught this stuff when we're kids? And that's a really good, excellent comment. And so we fixed that a few years ago and we put together a thing called the foundations in personal finance by, of course, Dave Ramsey and Ramsey solutions.

And it has now been taught in 48% of the high schools in America. And over 6 million kids have graduated from that class over the years. Lots of great teachers teach this across America. So we celebrate national financial Literacy Month by doing just this. And you know who makes that possible? Great teachers that choose to teach this curriculum. Great administrators that choose to let their teachers teach this curriculum. And then your kid doesn't get out of high school and not understand basics about finance and go make stupid mistakes like most people do, including me. So there you go. One of those great teachers is Travis. Travis is from Aiken, South Carolina, and we wanted to jump on the phone with him. Travis is one of these hero teachers. Hey, Travis, how are you?

Great, Dave. Thanks for having me. And I really want to thank you personally, too. You changed my life and really my family's life. My wife and I have been married for 16 years, and we started working the baby steps pretty early on in our marriage, and we've been debt free for three years. So obviously, I'm a big believer in the curriculum.

Thank you. Well, thanks for teaching the class. What school do you teach at?

I teach at Aiken High.

Okay. At Aiken High School in Aiken, South Carolina. And how many students are in the whole school?

Somewhere around 1100.

Okay. And so you teach one class of this a year or what? So.

We teach. Another teacher, along with me, teaches this class, and this year we teach about 150 students. Yeah. Next year it's going to be a requirement, or I guess it's a requirement this year for graduation, starting with the incoming freshmen in South Carolina.

Yes, it is. Amazing. Yeah, that's great.

So we're going to be teaching a lot more starting next year. I think there's almost 300 signed up for next year.

Very cool. Yeah, we've got a ton of new schools coming on board with that new requirement in South Carolina. They're coming on every day right now with us, and so we're really excited about that. So how long you been a teacher?

This is my 20th year.

And how long you been doing the foundations and personal finance?

We started teaching personal finance at Aiken High probably about five years ago. I think I've been teaching it for four years. But, you know, now that it's a requirement and been adopted by the state, we actually had to go out and have it funded by a guy locally that's a financial advisor, that he funded the curriculum for everybody in our county, which is awesome of him. But now that it's adopted by the state, you know, he doesn't have to do that anymore, and it's going to be an option for everybody in South Carolina, which is amazing.

Yeah, that's very cool. Very cool. So you've been doing it four years. That means some of the kids are out in the wild now. They've graduated. They're out being adults and stuff. Any of them ever circle back and tell you a success story, what they learned and what happened? Yes, sir.

Well, one of the, one of the things I love about it is the college planning part of the curriculum. And I had a girl a couple years ago, she really took the, you know, the curriculum talks about paying cash for college and how to do that, how to apply for scholarships and really kind of make that like your part time job. And this girl took it to heart and she started applying for two or three a week. And by the time she graduated, she came to me and she told me that she had enough that she was not going to have to borrow any money for school, which is amazing.

So she got 50 or $100,000 worth of scholarships.

I don't know how much she got, but she told me she had enough that she wouldn't be borrowing any money. She got enough scholarships to cover. Cover everything.

That's very cool. That's very cool. I'll tag team with you on that, brother. Well done. Yeah, well done. Good stuff.

So, doctor John. Doctor John, that's one of my favorite videos, too, on the curriculum is when you explain how you made some of your choices going to college. So that was, that's certainly one of the fun parts of the curriculum.

Well, I appreciate that. Thanks, man. It's, it's an honor to circle back and be a part of this thing. And, um, as a guy who worked at universities for 20 years, I saw students come in and make some tragic financial decisions and just. And they didn't know. And moms and dads, they didn't know. They didn't know there was another way to do this. And so I appreciate you being a part of changing how the next generation thinks about money.

So when the kids come into class, they're in a personal finance class or freshman, sophomore, junior in high school. What's the most common question you get from them?

Well, there's a part of the curriculum that talks about, you know, paying cash for a car. And there's an activity that we do that's in the curriculum that kind of takes you through the steps of buying that first car and how to go about it and pay cash and kind of build up to a car that you want. The first part of the activity is you're starting off buying a kind of a clunker for $2,500. And they always ask me, I think every class has asked me, well, you say you've been through these steps. Why do you drive a 14 year old car? So that's a question I get a lot. But they really love the activity about the used car. They have lots of questions about that.

Yeah. Car is a big deal when you're 16, for sure. Represents freedom. I love it.

That's right.

Very cool. Travis, thank you. Thank you so much for teaching this class. Travis is a teacher in Aiken, South Carolina, at Aiken High School, and one of the heroes out there that's teaching this foundations and personal finance class, and the other heroes, the local financial guy there that's been funding and sponsoring the curriculum so everybody could go through. And now, of course, as he said, South Carolina has adopted this and made it a requirement. And so we're signing up schools in South Carolina. We're one of the approved options for schools to meet this requirement. And we're signing up schools left and right. So if you're in South Carolina, tell your school they should use ours. Well, they should. It's the best one, right? So why would you use anything else except the Bentley? Don't drive the $1,400 car. Drive the Bentley. And, I mean, school's paying for it, so get the best. This is the good stuff. Cool. Hey, and by the way, we're also celebrating by doing a big teacher giveaway. Any teacher that's out there listening, be sure and enter the Ramsey teacher appreciation giveaway sponsored by Ramsey Education. One teacher is going to win a $5,000 vacation, and two more teachers will each win a $3,000 vacation.

Go to ramseysolutions.com teacher to enter. There is no purchase necessary. And you don't have to be teaching personal finance to do this. That's not the point. We just want to honor teachers. And teachers work their tail off. And the ones that need a vacation, they need a vacation. Yeah.

And, Dave, while we were on that call, I thought of the irony of all of this. This is now a mandate going across the country where governments are mandating these kids need to learn about money. And I thought, Dave, you should make a education product for Congress. All of them looking at these kids being like, y'all should learn how to spend and save money.

Be like, yeah, and so should you.

Pot, meet my friend Kettle.

Exactly.

That would be fantastic.

Oh, that is an irony.

It would not sell well, though.

Well, no, but people would buy it and donate it to the congressmen.

You.

I promise you, I could if I just started getting up a little, what.

They call it, GoFundMe FPU Congress edition.

A gofundme for just sending all of them total money makeover books. They, that would. I would get so much money in, in the first 20.

It would be a five minute video of just your face. Just shaking your head.

No. No. I said no. No.

Stop.

No.

Just say no.

No is a complete sentence. No. Quit. Stop it.

These high school kids are off to a better start than some of our leaders.

Oh, definitely. Maybe they'll be our leaders. Ah, there we go. Yes. Yes. I can say yes to that. This is the Ramsey show. Knock, knock.

Who's there?

Your taxes.

Well, actually, it's George, but you get the point. April 15 is the last day you can file your tax return or request a deadline extension. So head to Ramsay smarttax and get this party started.

Ramsey.

Smarttax gives you access to free chat and phone support and saves you up to 70% compared to the other guys. So filing your federal return is easy and affordable. Like less than $35 affordable. So go to ramsaysolutions.com smarttax. So when the deadline comes knocking, you're resting easy. That's ramsaysolutions.com smarttax.

Doctor John Deloney Ramsey, personality, is my co host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Open phone 825-5225 Jeremy is with us in West Palm Beach, Florida. Hi, Jeremy. How are you?

I'm very good, mister Ramsey. And thank you for taking my call.

Sure. What's up?

So I told my best friend recently that I wouldn't be able to be his best man in his wedding because the wedding is in a, in Brooklyn, New York, and it's not in my wife's and I's budget.

Okay.

Okay.

Why can't you get in the car and drive up there?

Well, I don't know. We got Ramsay or we have Ramsey or I. So I don't know if I trust them. We're in baby step three right now. And also we have three children under the age of ten, two, four and nine.

So leave your wife and the kids at home and go to the wedding. Well, drive up there.

I know it doesn't cost any. Yeah, that's a far drive. I'm a floor. I stay in my little area. You know how you don't like to travel far for work? I don't like to travel far from my home.

Okay.

But I don't know if I'm just looking up, like, finding excuses or, you know.

Yeah. It's not really your best friend.

Oh, well, I mean, he's a friend.

He's a friend, but he's not your best friend. Your best friend. You would already have driven up there.

Yeah.

You would do anything for your best friend. Right?

I know, but like I said, I.

Mean, you don't have to spend $10,000 to do this. It's not an expensive thing. You're not really hardly spending any money to do it. It's just inconvenience that you don't want.

When is this wedding?

It's July. The middle July this year.

So why couldn't you take a couple of shifts or work or figure most of lawns or do something to get some gas money, I guess. I'm with Dave.

I am doing that now. I am working overtime. But, you know, we're trying to, you know, pay fill up.

Hey, Jeremy, your wife doesn't like this guy.

Oh, she does. He was our best. My best man. But, I mean, in my wedding five.

Years ago, she doesn't like this guy.

Oh, I don't. I don't say that, but.

Okay, so then what's really going on? Because, you know, this is. This is not a money issue. You know, it's not. Doesn't take any money to be in this wedding. He didn't ask you to fly to Spain?

No, no, no. But it's just out of my realm of just my little hometown, you know? So I just. I don't really feel like leaving my kids.

Okay.

Say that. That's it. That's the truth.

That's the truth. That's the truth. Not. It's not my budget.

Not budget. It's say, hey, dude, I don't. I don't love you enough. I don't want to be a part of this enough to leave my town. Yeah, that's the truth.

Brooklyn scares the hell out of me. I'm staying in Palm beach.

Yeah.

I'm not going.

And maybe he's your best friend, but you're not hit. Like, yeah, I can't wrap my head around that sentiment. Like, if my buddy's called, I'd walk off air right now if I had to. Like, that's just. That's what you do, but that's not your relationship with this guy, and that's okay.

And now if he was asking you to spend ten grand and you're in the middle of getting out of debt, and you. We've had. We've had that call over the years. You know, my, you know, my. Wants me to be a bridesmaid, and it's a $20,000 thing with a ticket. And we have to do the brides. We have to go to three towns for different bridesmaids things, and then we're gonna fly to Mexico. And. And I don't have. And I don't have the money to do all that, and they're mad at me. Well, that's tough. I mean, I agree. Don't do that one. Okay, but this is just getting a car and drive to Brooklyn, man. I mean, it's not. It's not, like, a lot of money, and it's.

It's a long drive, and it's annoying. And by the way, when you have a good friend, there's a lot of times you end up helping out. I don't want to help friends move, but you do it. I don't want to help friends, but you do it.

I don't. I hire a mover.

Same.

You know what I'm talking about?

But, I mean.

And you can't use my pickup.

Yeah, you can't. No one even asks, Dave. No one even asked.

Good. I'm glad. Don't ask. But, yeah, I do whatever you want to do, dude. But I think we did boil it down to, this is not about a budget. You don't want to go. It's about you don't want to go. That's why. That's why I was blaming your wife, because I thought you don't want to go. But it is you, after all. I was wrong. It's not your wife. It's you. You don't want to go. And it's not that it's not in your budget, and it's not that you have to take care of the kids. These are. That's all mythology. You just don't want to go. And, you know, that's cool. You can make that decision, okay? And. And you're fine. I'm fine with that. If you don't want to go, just tell them I don't want to go. I don't. I can't.

Don't blame the budget. Don't blame Ramsey. You don't blame us for that.

Oh, God, please don't blame Ramsey. We get blamed for everything else. James is in Augusta, Georgia. Hi, James. How are you?

Hey. I, uh. I also am better than I deserve, Dave, and I appreciate you taking the call for me.

Our pleasure. How can we help, sir?

Well, I'll boil it down, Dave. I'm a follower. I'm at baby step six, but I got a couple of baby step two nics I need to take care of. I have two mortgages. One is a rental, and one is a primary. And I'd like your advice on which of those to pay off first. If you'd like the numbers, I'd be.

Glad to give them what is in baby no, that's baby step two. Right. Those are more mortgages are baby step six.

Right. Well, one is an optional spending because it's not my primary. Oh, I got you.

But now rental property goes in six, too, so. But, so you don't really, you don't have any consumer debt left, right?

Correct.

Okay, cool. How much you own the rental?

I own 96.

I'm sorry, 95. 95,000. How much do you owe on your present residence?

My present residence is 196, so that's a 195 payoff.

You got any cash to throw at either one of these numbers?

I do, I do. I've probably got about, I want to say 30. I maybe could even pump that to.

About 50 and still have your emergency fund in place.

And still have my emergency fund.

And your household income is what we're tilting, right?

At about 97, pushing at the highest.

Oh, you've done a really good job, James. Way to go. Way to go, man.

Yeah, it's taken a while, but I just don't like, I just don't like having that mortgage. I'm a believer in what you do and what you recommend. So I know one of those debts has got to go sooner than later. My thought was one is a near goal and the other is maybe a far goal. So what do you think?

Yeah, if they were close to equal, I always pay off the house first, my residence first, and that's just risk management, meaning if everything goes sideways and I have to lose something, that's not the one I want to lose. I want to lose the rental. Okay. So I would always pay off my home first, but this rental is half of, less than half of your house. And so, and with throwing 50 at it, you probably knock it out another year, and then that would leave a lot of cash flow freed up in additional income freed up then to throw all of it at the mortgage and be done. So it's okay to do it either way there, you're still going to end up in, it's going to take you exactly the same number of months to be debt free, regardless of which one you pay off. No, it's not. Pay off the rental first. It'll probably get you out of that faster because the rental income is freed up.

Yes. Now, I know, I do like that approach because it is a moneymaker. And I will just let you know that I do have a second rental, and that is a fully paid for 1031 exchange that I managed to do a couple of years ago. So I've got good passive income from both of them. I'm at about 3500 a month. And what I want to do is just rack and stack all that good passive income onto that rental mortgage and blow that baby out of the water in less than two years. Two years is my goal.

Yeah, I think you're probably with. You throw 50 at it. It's probably one year, right, but I.

Got to convince the wife of that.

Well, you got an emergency fund beyond the 50, right?

I do.

So why do we have to convince the wife? What's the wife's problem with 50,000 living in the bank or 50 extra?

Well, we might want to. We might want to not go down that rabbit hole. David, I apologize. I'm trying to keep it short for you, but she just has a different. She has kind of a. She has kind of a different approach from a different portion of the, of the world where she comes from. And her priorities are like east and west, if that makes sense to you.

Sure, sure. Yeah, yeah. Now you explained why she's wrong. Okay. Oh, well, whatever. Talk it. Talk it through and figure it out. But I'm going to throw 50 at the rental and stack and pack on the rental, and then stack and pack on the house. And you're probably going to be out of debt a slight bit faster going that direction than the other direction. But there's not a wrong answer, because either way, in about five or six years, you're going to be 100% debt free with all three, all the two rentals and your home, it's going to put you in a really sweet position. Hey, thanks for the call. Our scripture of the day, Philippians two, three, and four. Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility, value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interest, but each of you to the interests of others. Thomas Sowell says, when you want to help people, you tell them the truth. When you want to help yourself, you tell them what they want to hear. Ooh. Whoa, whoa.

Ouch.

That could happen around here. We do love people, and yet sometimes we are a bit brutal in our truth telling because we want to be real sure you hear it for your sake. It doesn't change our lives, it changes yours. And that's what we're here for. All right. Dom is with us in Philadelphia. Hi, Dom. Welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hello, mister Ramsey. Thank you for taking the time to have me on. Sure. I'm three years unemployed. I've been taking care of my mother. There's about 400 grand left to pay on the mortgage for the house I lived in my whole life, I made a promise to her that I would never put her in a nursing home. And I've just been struggling to find the right healthcare in home and just how to keep the house. My question to you, mister Ramsey, is if you were in my position, what's the first thing that you would do?

Wow. So you're how old?

23.

You're 23 and you've been taking care of your mom for three years, since you were 20? What's wrong with her?

She's got Parkinson's.

I'm sorry. So it's progressing, I assume?

Yeah, it's gotten worse. I mean, at the beginning, obviously. I've been through multiple companies, multiple interim health aides. I was working out of high school, a little family shop for, you know, automotive, and, uh, it was fine back then, but, you know, it's progressing. And I saw that, you know, gradually she, you know, didn't really know what was going on and.

So, how's she doing right this second?

Well, now it's. It's just me. It's been me for a while, and if you want something done right, you might do it yourself. And.

No, that one. I asked, I said, how is she doing? What's her condition? She's.

Right now?

No, no, she's not. Good.

Degrading.

Yeah. I mean, what. What kind of condition is she in? Today's.

She'S at home. She doesn't leave the house ever. It's just me feeding her with her every day, and it's hard to move. It's on and off, the disease.

How are the bills being paid?

So she was an anesthesiologist, and she has. She took a lump sum of the retirement money, and that comes out of an IRA that she put it into. And that's what's paying the mortgage and everything else. And then there's Social Security that comes in every year, I think to the tune of 20 something. 25.

Yeah. So, Dom, you sound completely drained and exhausted, like you're on your last thread, like you're just down your tanks empty is what it sounds like. Am I wrong?

Yeah. I thought taking on all this stuff, house and the paperwork and everything, would be easier with the support of the other half of my family, but they don't really want to get involved.

What's the other half of your family?

My dad side. The grandparents.

Oh, and your dad's gone?

Yeah. No, I mean, they divorced.

Yeah, that's what I mean. Okay.

Yeah.

So you're. You're. You're the only child I have a.

Brother, but he's in college.

Mm hmm. And how much is in this ira that's deteriorating along with this whole situation?

About 500.

Okay.

All right, Dom, I think you made a promise as a 19 year old that you weren't wise enough to make at the time. And just listening to you, it sounds like you've exceeded your capacity to help. And the most gracious, honorable thing you could do for your mom is to get her into a place where they.

Can take care of her or hire someone or use her. Use her. No, it's not. They're not all hell, some of them do a great job, but. Or just hire somebody to come in with her money and take care of her. You go get a life. I don't think you can keep going much longer. I'm not talking to a guy who has much left. Gas. Gas left in his tank.

Yeah. It's crazy because, you know, I went over most of the paperwork for some of these companies that came in for. In home health aides. You know, these people that they hire to do this work get paid less than somebody flipping a burger at McDonald's.

So hire one directly, find somebody who's a nurse and hire them. You have $500,000. Right. Okay. And can I ask you a difficult question? Can I ask you something that's painful?

Yeah.

How much longer do you think she has?

I try and keep her spirits up, you know?

That wasn't what I was talking.

Negative. I don't know.

Maybe this is not negative. It's facts.

Maybe five.

Five years?

Yeah.

Yeah. So you're gonna be 28 and it sounds like this. I don't think so.

74?

I don't think so. I don't think that this mom wanted this for her son, for when he's 28 years old, to have done this for eight years. I think you use her money to hire someone to come into her house and take care of her, and you get back up on your feet and create a little distance, physically and emotionally from the situation. So you'll have a much better head to help her with her care than you do right now. You are out of gas, young man, and you need some help.

She's also in debt to the IR's.

How much? $300,000.60.

More like 2250.

Okay, well, they can't get. They can't get the IRA.

Yeah.

So just spend the money out of the IRA to take care of her. What's the house worth?

So last time it was appraised seven, it was around 750, which is like a year and a half ago.

That's when they'll get their money, is when that house sells. Until then, they're not getting anything.

I want to keep it, though. I want to try and at least keep on, you know?

You don't need that house. No, no. That house needs to go away, bro.

You're trying to do so much. It's noble. But you got two guys who've, we're telling you can't lift the weight on the bar, and we're watching it crush you.

Yeah. We're your spotters, man. Don't, don't push again, okay? It's a, you know, we want you to win. We want your mom to be taken care of. We don't hate her. We're not angry with her or you. You're a noble, very cool, neat young man that's trying to do the best he can. But, man, the number of sighs that have come out of your mouth, the depth of the angst that is in your voice is amazing. You don't even hear it. But we get as clear as a bell on this end. And, man, I'm. I think the best gift you can give her is for you to get in a better place.

Absolutely.

I appreciate that.

Yeah. You have got to go get a life. It's time now, and you don't have to abandon her to do that. You can still make sure she's taken care of, whether that is in a facility or whether it's. You just go. Go down to the hospital and say, hey, who's a nurse that works part time that wants some full time work? I'm going to hire one right now. And you can hire them as cheap as you can pay a nursing home and bring them in and manage that. And then you step back, get you a job, get you some space emotionally, financially. I've been unemployed for three years is how you led the call. The lack of dignity in your voice when you said that even though you're doing something that's very noble and dignified, so you really need to do this for you. And the healthier you are, the stronger, your stronger position you're going to be in to care for her through these last stages of this disease. I'm so sorry you're facing this. So here, here's what we're going to do. I'm going to put you on hold and Christian's going to pick up.

We're going to set you up with one of our financial coaches at our cost. We're going to pay for it to come alongside you and walk with you because you're by yourself doing this. There's no one speaking into your life. And you need to get in a good church to and have a good pastor with you. You need to get some people around you that are encouraging you to lift up your arms while you're tired like this, brother, don't stay on this track, man. It's not a good track. That puts us hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace. Christ Jesus. Hey, folks, Dave Ramsey here. You know, budgeting doesn't have to be boring. You just need a budgeting app that's made with you in mind. And that's everydollar. The everydollar app has helped millions of people work the baby steps and take the stress out of planning and managing their money. Start budgeting with everydollar for free right now. Just go to ramsaysolutions.com everydollar and download the app today.

That's ramseysolutions.com everydollar.