Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with bestselling author, Dr. John Deloney. And man, I'm getting over something, but my voice sounds terrible. Now that I'm hearing it in my ears.

Sounds all like smoky and sultry. Hey, everybody. I'm trying. Welcome to the world headquarters of Ramsey Solutions.

It's winter. It's winter. I blame the weather. Well, it is a free call. And as Ken Coleman would say, a toll free call anywhere in the country.

He's a 141.

Triple 8, 825, 5225. Give us a call. We'll talk about your money, your relationships, your work, and your life. All right, first up, we have Stacey in Atlanta. Hey, Stacey, welcome to the show.

Hi, Rachel. Hi, Dr. John. What's up? I'm the perfect pair for this question. My mother recently passed away from dementia. I'm sorry. And when my brother and I sell her house, I'll come into some inheritance. And all during this process of us caring for her financially and supporting her through her health, trying to keep her out of a memory care and all of that, I swore myself if there's any money left at the end of this, I'm buying long-term care insurance so that my kids don't have to go through this. Yes. But I keep questioning myself because my husband and I am 59, he's 60. We have not paid off our house, but we're set everywhere else. So we're baby steps six. So I don't know if you want some numbers.

Or- Yeah, what's your main question? Because you're on the right track, is what you're saying, you guys want long-term care insurance, which is something when you're 60 that we recommend.

Or apply it to paying down the house, the mortgage.

Here's where I would suggest to go forward two things. One is go forward with the insurance. Two, you're entering into a window, right? The longer you wait now, the more expensive it gets.

Right.

It's already going to be expensive. I'll tell you one of, if not the greatest gifts my parents ever gave me through my whole childhood. After I was going into all these homes with the police department and dealing with death notifications and taking care of people who had just been widowed, I remember calling my dad and saying, Man, this is really weighing on me. Do you all have a plan? We talked through and he did. But for Christmas that year, they got all of us kids. They got themselves long-term care insurance. I remember exhaling in a way that I didn't realize I was holding my breath. Because in the back of my mind, I'd always been thinking, Well, if something happens to mom, we're going to... I didn't realize I was doing that, but I was. When they said, Hey, Merry Christmas. This stuff's expensive, so we don't really get you all anything other than this and a couple of books, I just went, Oh, who. I would tell you on behalf of everybody, I think it's a.

Wise decision. Yeah, and it's not part of the baby steps, Stacey, but we do look at insurance as one of these foundational principles. If you were a young couple with little kids, we'd say you need life insurance, right? Stacey, if anyone's dependent upon your income, you guys still need life insurance, which is different than long-term care. So these kinds of things that you have in your life that are part of your financial picture is regardless of baby steps. So I really do think, yeah, at your age, this is regardless of on your... Even if you're on baby step two, I would say this is still something to look into, because to John's point, it's only going to get more expensive. And if something does happen, it's insurance. It's there to catch those really expensive costs that hopefully are not anytime soon, but long term. But I would, yes, I would go ahead and do that. And then also for your house, how much do you guys owe on the house?

Two hundred and fifty thousand.

Okay. And how much do you guys make?

About $210,000.

Okay, that's great. And do you have kids at home at all or are they all grown and gone?

No, they're grown and gone. Okay, that's great. When you sell this house, when you sell your mom's house, what inheritance are you going to bring home after you split it with everybody?

About $100,000. That's great.

Okay, so an income of $210,000, and you take that $100,000 and apply it to your mortgage. Because I can't think of something I would rather my kids have than a paid-for home when I go, like a place they can always call home that nobody can take from them. I would love for my children to use that as their inheritance for that. That would drop your mortgage, your principal down to $150,000. You make $210,000, you could knock that out in a couple of years and just be done.

Have you priced out Stacey, your long-term care? Because you keep talking about how expensive it is, and I'm just curious your health situation or what numbers you're pulling.

I talked to my financial advisor, and he was saying it's about $50,000 a person for about $500,000 worth of long-term care insurance. So that takes it all.

But hold on. Are you talking about buying a whole life policy?

That's one of those hybrid policies.

Yeah, don't do that. Please don't do that.

No, no, no. What you're pricing out is extremely expensive because they're putting you into a whole life type of insurance.

Don't do that. Don't do that.

Don't do that. Yeah, you don't need to do that. So what I would do is I would look up... I think Xander does carry long-term care insurance. If they.

Don't, they'll direct you in the.

Right place. Yeah, go to zander. Com, Stacey, because that's a terrible financial product of what your financial advisor is trying to get you in. And if you guys don't have people dependent on your income, you don't even need life insurance and whole life insurance. Yes, they do all these scams within it and these investments and this and that and that. They try to sell products within it, and it just ends up costing a lot, which long-term care insurance, it's not inexpensive, but it shouldn't be that expensive, and especially upfront. They're asking you to pay for the whole policy. So, Stacey, look at options. And again, go to zandr. Com and call them. I'm pretty sure they do have long-term care. It may just be term life right now, but talk to them because they're trusted people that are in this insurance world, and they know all of this stuff. But yeah, go ahead and get a second opinion and maybe even a third opinion.

Please don't buy a whole life policy. Please, please, please, please. Not good. Rachel, it feels like a snakey thing.

From her financial advisor? Yes.

I know. Yeah, it feels gross to me that they're going to sell you on an expensive product when you're in it. Yeah, it just feels gross. It feels.

Gross, gross, gross. The whole thing about whole life, Stacey, you have to understand because a lot of... There are financial advisors out there that sell these products, and either them themselves know that they're getting a great backend, and so they're just like, hey, we're going to push this product because we're making something off of it. Or some of them are just ignorant. Some of them literally have been sold this bag of goods, too, and they believe that this is the best thing. But when you run the numbers and you actually look at the options, Stacey, it's terrible like it is. And so stay away from anything, Universal Life, whole life, all of it, because they do. They try to tack on all these different types of insurance, and it becomes extremely expensive. And if you had invested part of that money, right? If you went into long-term care insurance with someone else, it's just purely long-term care. There's no insurance, whole life parts of that. There's no package. Yeah, and you invested the remaining part. How much you're going to have left to, Stacey, for your kids? So there's so many different options. Go ahead and price that out, but I would not go with that product at all.

You don't even need life insurance at this point. If you and your husband, if there's people not dependent upon your income, and there's enough for burial costs and all that, you do want to look at that process.

Stacey, also while you're at it, you and your husband call one of our Smart Investor Pros, because I want you to get second opinion on the person taking care of walking alongside you with your retirement, because I don't know that you're getting the best advice.

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Special offer by using discount code, KLG. Welcome back to The Ramsey show. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney. And we are taking your calls. Next step. We have Mia in Boston. Hi, Mia. Welcome to the show.

Hi. Thanks for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help?

So a mom baby, step two with my husband and our car broke. So we're stacking cash to replace it. And we're in the suck. And last month, I busted my butt to earn about $3,000 on five gigs. The intent was to cover a small Christmas budget and pay off debt, which then got transitioned to stacking cash for the car replacement. After repair and a cut an hours at my husband's job, we only ended up paying $1,000 towards the car after replacing the emergency fund. So five gig hours are reduced this month and the budget shows we're doing every dollar. We do a budget every month since July when we started this. And we have about $200 left in the budget this month. And it's so early in the month. And I'm really worried that we won't have enough money to be finished the month. And my husband thinks I'm just being pessimistic. And so I'm just trying to feel like, is this normal to have this much of a setback?

So yes, I would say, for sure. And that's part of this. I mean, you guys are six months in to this. How much have you paid off so far?

We've paid off about $16,000, I think.

Good for you guys. How much you have left?

Over.

30. Okay. No, you're great. You're doing awesome. And how much you guys make a year?

About.

140. Okay, good for you guys. And doing some side hustle stuff. So, Mia, I feel like one of the frustrating parts, I can think of just life, right? But especially if you're on a really intense plan like this is that you wish life was just a gradual line upward, but it's not. It is a up and down, up and down. It almost looks like the stock market. When you look at that chart. The life just happens. And the great thing about you guys, though, is that you've had a plan. Before this, if life happened, you would probably have no savings. You had debt. I mean, all of this, right? Maybe living paycheck to paycheck. And so I think the positive end of this is that even though it feels like, Oh, my gosh, it's a step backwards, it's going to feel like that because it is. But that doesn't mean that it has to continue like that, and it won't, even though these are the times that it can be so discouraging. But that is life. And we see that all the time. People call in, I mean, this is. You're going to go through life.

People deal with health issues. They deal with job changes and losses and moves and expenses all the time that they were not expecting. And that's so common. It's so common. But when something like a car breaks down, I get it. It's so discouraging because it feels like all your hard work went to a stupid car, and you're just like, Oh, my gosh, we want to pay this debt down. So I hear you. I want to say that that is so normal, even though it sucks, that's not fun. And the $200 buffer, I mean, I get it because $200 can just go like that, right? I'm like, it doesn't feel like a lot after a while. But I would say if you guys stick to it, and maybe you pull back from Christmas even more in the season and do a couple of things there, I think you're going to be okay. But I think your fear and concern is valid. So your husband saying that you're being a pessimist, I don't think so. I think there's a level of a realist of like, things could happen and this $200 could just be gone in an instance.

But I also think that you guys are planned and you know what's going on, and that's going to give you more direction, more confidence than probably you're giving a credit for.

Okay. Yeah, I mean, he's wise, but it just feels like we're not getting anywhere. And he keeps saying like, It's just two years. It's just two years, and we're only six months in, and it just feels like we're not... We were so close to paying off our next debt, which was our last car loan. And he said the difference is that the old us would have just driven to the dealership and taken out another loan. Exactly right. And the new us is going to drive this crappy car, which is on its last legs, and just work harder and try to save the money. But I'm so tired. I've worked so much extra time, and it was just so disheartening to like... I basically didn't even have a day off for almost 30 days, and I thought I was going to be pulling in $3,000, and you said it's like a thousand. All that for a thousand dollars was so disheartening.

But it wasn't just for a thousand dollars. You saved your family from going back over the cliff.

Yeah.

This is going to sound crazy. Would it be weird for somebody in your house to say the phrase, Hell, yeah? No. Okay, you're like, No, no. I want you to make a Hell, yeah, journal. It's a gratitude journal on steroids. Because as you're working through this, you earned $3,000 on top of your regular job this month. You, my friend, kept your family from sliding back into a deeper hole than you even started from. Because you're right, you all would have gone to get a car loan, and you would have got something nice. While you were there, they would have been running an end-of-year special, and you would have ended up getting way deeper in the hole than you even started this whole thing with. I want you toYou saved your life. You saved your family.

You did it. You did the plan.

You did it. Yeah, this is the plan.

You did it. Yes.

Even.

Though it goes to something stupid, like a car, because the car broke, right? I get it. I get it. But you did it. It's frustrating. But you did it.

I want you to write these things down on a regular basis. Dude, I worked... I didn't have a day off for 30 days. Hell, yeah. I earned $3,000 on top of my paycheck. That goes in the journal. That way, when you have these setbacks, and you know what? I hate to be Debbie Downer, your refrigerator is going to go out in the next six months. I just promise you it will. I promise. But you all have continued to work and work and work. Let me ask you a hard question. You all make $140 grand.

What.

Is it about your expense ratio? Because that's a really good salary. What is it about your expenses going out the door that you can barely breathe like that? Because your debt is $30,000. That's not an astronomical ratio. Do you all have really expensive cars or a really expensive home? No.

No, we went into debt because we had four kids in braces, medically necessary, so really expensive, not covered by insurance. We went into debt last year and then adopted this program, got on a budget and like you guys said, getting on a budget, suddenly we had a read and we had money to start paying down the debt, which is why we've been able to pay down the debt in the past few months. Our cars are all over 10 years old. We have a really low mortgage payment. I have five kids and they eat a lot a lot coming in and out.

Excellent. Okay, I totally get that, man. Kids, yes, they will eat everything, all things and then more. I know it sounds so trite, but don't just hang in there. Celebrate where you are. I know you're like, And with five kids, $200 feels like somebody could sneeze and you're going to spend $200. I get that. I would lean on my husband's optimism in this season and then keep grinding away at it. Keep grinding away. I'll tell you this, on the back end, you are providing your kids a life-changing picture of what hard work looks like, what breaking chains looks like, what changing your family tree looks like. When things that are hard come up in their life, which they will, economic problems, war, relationship issues, their own financial issues, they will have a crystal clear picture of the time mom and dad didn't even get each other something for Christmas because they had something bigger in mind that was changing their family tree. They will remember the months mom worked every day of the week and missed recitals and missed games and made us cook our own dinner because she was so focused on setting the family free.

None of your efforts are lost. It's disappointing that you didn't put $3,000 down, you only got a thousand bucks down. But, man, you are changing everything. I'm proud.

Of you. Yeah, no, absolutely. I think that's a fear from a lot of parents is, Oh, gosh, I'm going to miss out on this time with my kids. If we're doing this for 18 months, even you saying, I'm missing recitals and practices and all the things because I'm sacrificing to get us in a position where we can actually breathe as a family. A lot of people see that as complete detriment, but it's not.

There could not be a better lesson. I promise you, if you had to have to decide, Well, my kid's got a travel soccer game that I just have to go to, or, Hey, son, I want to sit down. We're going to have breakfast together at the house. We're going to have cereal because that's what we're eating right now. We're going to have oatmeal. I'm working really hard to get our family out of debt, and so I'm going to miss this game. I'm going to be thinking about you. I want you to call me the moment you walk off that field. But I also want you to know your daddy or your mom is working really.

Hard to set this family free. Yeah. I would say this too. It's not in the vein of I'm a workaholic and I'm just going to work and work and work until the day is long. There's a plan. It's for a goal. There's a time set and there's a goal, a very noble goal in the midst of all of that. So remember that, parents. This is The Ramsey Show.

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, it's Dr. John Deloney. This time of year can be great, but the holidays can cause anxiety for a lot of people, especially about giving gifts. Maybe your family makes super thoughtful, handmade things, or they demand you buy really expensive things, or maybe you just like experiencing time together, or you all just pick up random gift cards last minute. No matter how your family does gifting, remember to take care of yourself. Whether it's going easier on yourself during tough moments or treating yourself to a day of rest from everyone and everything, remember to give yourself some love this holiday season. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. Betterhelp is flexible because it's online so it can fit into your busy holiday schedule. Just fill out a short questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists anytime for no extra charge. In the season of giving, give yourself what you need with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp. Com/daloney today to get 10 % off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P. Com/daloney. Welcome back to.

The Ramsey Show. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney. We are taking your calls. It's a free call anywhere in the country at triple-8-825-5225. Christmas, you guys, it is right around the corner. And John, I've done so many interviews recently for different media outlets talking about budgeting and Christmas and everyone's shopping and feeling like they're over their budgets and going into debt. And it's insane. So you guys, remember, as you're shopping, be wise. Don't put yourself in a financial hole. I saw a study, 25 % of Americans are still paying for Christmas from last year. So don't be one of those people. Be on a budget. Be wise. And as you're shopping, we have some great affordable gifts, gifts that can actually help the people in your life, help your friends, help your family. There are so many meaningful gifts that are only $12. At Ramsey Solutions, we're continuing our Christmas sale only $12. So the total money makeover, Baby Steps Millionaires, Own Your Past, Change Your Future, all for just $12. And even your questions for humans, John, it's back for $10. So if you need some great gifts that are in your budgets that are inexpensive, but actually are great gifts, go to ramseysolutions.

Com/store. Hey, can I add something to that? So this is me being a little bit vulnerable talking about stuff I don't usually talk about on the show. I keep this stuff private, but here we go. I think it was last year when Own Your Past, Change Your Future came out, right? And it was the number one best teller did well.

Yeah.

I grew up the son of a police officer and a minister, and my wife grew up the daughter of two teachers. Then we had number one bestselling book money, which was something we'd never experienced. I had seen an escalation in our kid's Christmas and me continuing to try to show them how much I love them by how much stuff I bought. Last year was a madhouse. I overdid it. I went bananas. This year in preparation, Sheila said way early, we have to be responsible. My son and I, I talk about this, we go to breakfast every week, and he's 13. About a month and a half ago during breakfast, I said, Listen, Christmas is going to look different this year. The last few years, I just keep buying more and more stuff, more and more stuff. You and your sister, you all have enough stuff. We're going to buy a couple of things that are important, we think, maybe one or two nice things, and we're going to give a lot of stuff away, and we're just going to spend time together having some adventure. My son's response, he got quiet and he said, Dad, I don't think you can do it.

Here's what he was saying.

Hank, raise.

The bar. Hank was not saying, Are you serious? You're not going to get us a bunch. He said he was expressing, I know, dad, it's overwhelming, but I think you buy gifts for us, for you. I tell everybody that for this. He's special and he's my son. He's the smartest kid and the best looking kid, all that stuff. That's not the point. The point is, if you'll sit down and have a direct, honest conversation with your kids about the state of your financial life in your home, like our last quarter, we got hours cut. We're trying to get a debt, fill in the blank. If you will be honest with them and say, Here's what we're going to do, they're with you. You know why? Because they feel the tension in their home. They know something's not right. If you say, Hey, this is going to be a different Christmas. You and your sister, you and your brother, you and all five of you brothers and sisters, you're all going to get three gifts this year. That's what we're going to do, and they're not going to be big. I just want you to know ahead of time we have a plan, but we're going to do some different things this year.

We're going to go hang out, we're going to play. Have that conversation with your kids, and I'm telling you they're going to respond in a positive way. Yes.

I'm telling you. Well, and it sounds so silly because it's so simple. But, John, I'm like, we over Thanksgiving, we took the kids, we went and got by all the bikes, went to an empty parking lot at a high school nearby, and they just literally rode bikes in this big empty parking lot for probably two hours. We went on a hike the next day. We just did so much stuff with them activity-wise. And then we go and clean out the playroom closet and like, Oh, that's good. But all they can talk about is riding bikes in the parking lot. Do you know what I mean? I'm like, We don't know this, but yet we get sucked into this consumerism and this Christmas and the Amazon big catalog they send, and the kids are looking through it. I want this. You just get caught up in it. When you just stop and be like- They want you.

-oh, my gosh, yes. -they want you. They want time with their parents.

It's just crap that we buy, crap that 80 pieces, and you're just like, Oh, my God. Get all of it away. Get all of it away. It's all these little things.

How many people have you talked to who went to Disney World with their kid, and all their kid comes back talking about was the hotel pool, right? Just your kids want you. That's right. They want you. They want you. They want you. So have the conversation if your finances are tight this year. And if your finances are not tight this year- So it looks like you have to spend. Don't use Christmas as a way to sing and dance in front of your kids. They don't want your song and dance. They want you.

That's right. That's right. All right, let's go to the phones. We got Kelsey in Austin, Texas. Hey, Kelsey, welcome to the show.

Hey, you all. Merry Christmas. And thank you for taking my call.

How are you guys? Merry Christmas, Kelsey. I don't think I've said that yet on the show.

And that was a good Texas. Hey, you all. That was awesome.

Thank you guys so much. So my question is, my husband and I are in baby step two, and we have a really great opportunity to move back home to North Carolina and start the process of taking over 100-year-old family business. But we'll be lucky if we break even on our house here just outside of Austin. And so really, my question is, do we wait until we have more equity in our home to move? Or do we take that opportunity and try to just break even with our house here?

Yeah, I.

Wouldn't wait. I was going to say I've bought and sold multiple houses in my life, Kelsey, and one of those times because the economic incentive on the back end was so important, I ended up having to take a check to closing. I technically lost money on my house. Okay. Not a lot. It was a little bit. It was like 4,000 bucks. That was the check I had to take to closing, which sounds bananas. But the following year, my wife and I paid off six figures of debt. And so the trade-off was definitely.

Worth it. Yeah. So the trade-off for sure for you guys. And, Kelsey, you guys are on baby step two. So when you move back home, I would rent. Don't buy again, rent while you guys get out of debt. How much debt do you guys have left to pay off?

We have about 40,000 left.

Okay. And what's your income? Is it going to go up or down this first year with the new transition of the job?

It'll actually go up for both of us. For my husband, it'll go up. And then I will also get a promotion with my company.

So all the.

Income.

Will go up. Okay, great. Yeah, I wouldn't let the house stop me, honestly. I would sell it. And don't try to be a long distance landlord and keep it and rent it and wait for the market. All of it is just... We always say with real estate, whether you're buying, whether you're selling, whatever it is, it's when is a good time for you. You're looking at your situation. You're not trying to gage the market because we don't have a crystal ball. We don't know what's going on. But one thing I do know, Kelsey, since you guys are in baby step two, do not buy. Just go and rent for a few years, make sure to get this debt paid off, get a good fully funded emergency fund, and then save five % for a good down payment to five to 20 % or more if you want to for a down payment. But I would not rush back into-home ownership, which can be hard when you've done it and then you feel like, Oh, my gosh, we're going back to renting. But that's going to be the smartest move for you guys.

No, we did it not well this first time.

Okay, so you feel it?

Yeah, absolutely. I'm like, Let's wait until we're totally ready.

Yes. Okay, good. What's this business you're going back to take over? What was that, John? Sorry. What's the business you're going to take over?

It's actually a 100-year-old furniture business. So we're really.

Really excited. That's great. Whose side of the family is it? Yours or his?

It's on his side of the family.

Okay, that's great. And you're able to keep your job when you guys move?

Yeah. I'm fully remote and it's a Fortune 500 company. So, yeah, I'm able to move, which is such a blessing.

Yeah.

That's awesome. Have you all counted the cost to your souls and what it's going to be like to leave the Lone Star State?

Honestly, we came here for the military, and then we transitioned out and we love Texas. But, John, why is Texas a whole country? It's so far.

From every- You live there. You know why it is. Hey, listen, when we told people we were moving to Nashville, multiple people took me out for a drink or for coffee.

Double checking that you're okay leaving.

Well, there's-like, hey, is this the right move. You're leaving the motherland. You know Al-Qaeda is waiting for you on the Arkansas border. They're waiting. I was like, I think.

We're going to be all right. Texas people are so bizarre.

With their states. They're amazing. They're just.

Proud of their home. Which I guess so.

Good for you. Get out of there, Kelsey.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney and taking your questions at triple-eight, 5-25. It's a free call anywhere in the country. Up next, we have Jamie in San Antonio. Hey, Jamie, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you for.

Taking my call. Absolutely. How can I help?

If I needed a dream team to help me, you two are the ones that would pick.

We got you. We are here for you, Jamie. We are.

Here for you. What's up?

I need you. I have a very simple question and a very messy situation. At what point do I stop investing? Kind of what's going on? I'm 45, I'm disabled, and I'm freshly divorced. So I'm on a set income, and I need to start making a budget, and I'm not sure what to do with my money. I bring in about 4,000 a month, but I only spend about 1,500. I'm debt free, and I have a little over $650,000 in brokerage accounts.

Say, 600 and what? 50,000. 50. Good for you, Jamie.

This is from the divorce. I received probably 90 %. You perceive maybe 10, is that? But I feel like I cannot make any financial mistakes because I cannot go out and get a job. If anything goes wrong, I'm scared.

Jamie, I want you to do me a huge favor. I want you to take as deep breath as you possibly can, and I want you to hold it for three, okay? Do it. Take it deep in. Hold it. One, two, three. Let it out. I want you to hear me as directly as you can, okay? Financially, you're in great shape. You're in great shape.

I can hear the words, but.

I just can't. I know you can't. I know. But when you get scared in the middle of the night, I want you to hear those words. What happened in your marriage?

After 21 years, I found out he's been cheating on me for a while. He's recently admitted that he has a sex addiction.

This has been going on with a lot of people, huh?

A lot of people. I found out. I couldn't say I couldn't. No, No, I don't know.

My kids are broken and I'm broken. On paper, it looks so good. I know that because I've been Dave Ramsey since 2009. I'm better than I deserve, but I'm afraid I'm going to make a bad decision. I'm afraid I'm going to become a shopping addict. I can't eat my emotions because I've had bypass surgery. I cannot drink alcohol. I can't smoke. I can't. So I'm stuck here having to deal with this. I'm scared. So I have, back to the question, I have about 2,000-plus extra each month. I have $650,000 in brokerage. Can I just take a break? Can I just go on vacation when I want to? What do I do?

Yeah, yeah. Oh, Jamie. How recent was all this?

The divorce was final in September.

Okay.

My rule of thumb, I always tell people, is no big decisions for six months to a year, okay? That doesn't mean don't go out with your kids. You only need to go somewhere and just be together.

I had some medical issues, and I've received... We had two homes. I received both of them in the divorce. I sold the first one, and I moved to 16 hours south. I had to get away from him. I had to move. I have my son with me and my daughters in college, and she will not talk with them as she wants. I'm constantly the in-between. I'm covering every bomb that he throws, and the kids just don't know what he's doing wrong. I'm born out. But then I'm also keep thinking, at some point, is it going to break? Is it going to be a financial bad decision? Is it going to be, what is it? This is the only thing I can control.

Have you broken before? Because you keep.

Mentioning this. I can't control.

Have you lost control before?

No, I think it's a control issue. I can only control my money right now.

I can't control him. That's not true. Hold on, hold on. That's not true. You can't control him, but you can control you. Have you had struggle with addiction before? Have you struggled with out-of-control behavior before?

My brother died of addiction last year.

Okay.

I'm very aware of.

Slipfalls and- I get that. But is that you? Yeah. Because I hear a very strong woman whose entire world just blew up.

Yeah. Jamie, one thing John has said, and I've heard you say this before, which I feel like is so true right now, what I'm hearing from you, Jamie, is that especially when someone walks through a situation where there's been dishonesty, broken trust, infidelity, anything in that category, the spouse on the other end questions, Oh, my gosh, can I trust myself?

Yeah, you've lost.

Trust in you. Because I feel like I was trusting him. Then he comes up living this completely different life. Am I the crazy one? You know, like.

You- No, that's what he told me for years. I was the crazy one, and I made it all up, and I was manipulated for two years by him. That's right. Right.

Which is obviously the complete opposite of what's going on. Jamie, all of that, you are sitting here and second-guessing yourself on everything. You're second-guessing yourself that you're going to have a shopping addiction because your brother struggled with addiction, but you haven't struggled with addiction. You're trusting yourself that I'm going to spend all of this money, $650,000. I don't know if I can trust myself with money. You can't trust yourself with money. You've been doing this stuff since '09 of how to handle money well, right? So I want you again, and I don't even know how to walk you through that, but I want to give you confidence as a long-distance friend that's met you for two minutes, tell you, you can trust yourself more than you're giving yourself credit for. So just hear an outside voice say that because you're questioning every part of your life, which is understandable. Like, hear me say that. Yeah. Understandable. But for someone on just the outside looking in, I just want to say that truth over you that you can trust yourself, okay?

You're not crazy. I want to ask you this question. Repeat that to yourself. You're not crazy. You were married to a sociopath who put you in extreme danger by having multiple sex partners you didn't know about. And and destroyed the trust and gaslit you the whole way. So you're not crazy. Now, I'm going to ask you some direct questions. Are you going to blow all $650,000 of this money? No. Okay. Are you going to take care of your kids?

Absolutely, every day.

Every second. Are you going to honor and take care of Jamie? I'm trying. Okay, you are. Now, you have to, have to. Priority number one, full stop, you have to get a couple of people in your life that will sit with you and have coffee. Now, that's going to be very difficult because you move 16 hours away, right? Yeah. Whether that's a therapist, whether it's a counselor, whether it's a local church, you have to have people with you during this time, and it cannot be your kids. They can't be the people who prop you up, right?

Right.

I would block husband. I would take him out of my phone. I would cut him off. X. There you go. Thank you for catching me on that one. At some point, because he is such an out-of-control, dishonest person, he's going to, at some point, try to snake his way back into his kid's lives. I want him to have that... He's already started? Yep. Of course, yes. I want you to have that conversation with your kids that they get to walk away from somebody who is a sociopath, okay?

That's okay.

Because.

I keep telling them, He's your dad. God. Hold on. They don't know everything, obviously.

How old are they?

19 and 21. Okay.

There is a way to tell the truth without telling them that their father is evil, okay? Let me rephrase that even more. There's a way to tell them that their father is very dishonest, has had a pattern of dishonesty, has not told the truth, put you at extreme risk without saying your dad sucks and he's a terrible person. One of those is just running somebody down. The other is just telling the truth about what happened, okay? That's okay. We're not going to disparage, but we're going to tell the truth. All that to say, you guide us to people in your life. Hang on the line and we're going to give you three free months of better help. I want you talking to a counselor before tomorrow is over.

Thank you for the call. Thank you, Jamie. Thanks to everyone in the booth. Thank you, John, for a great hour. Thank you, America, for listening. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with best-selling author Dr. John Deloney. And we are taking your calls. It's a free call anywhere in the country at triple-eight-825-5225. All right, up next or at first this hour, we have Stephen in Springfield. Hey, Stephen. Welcome to the show.

Hey, good morning or good afternoon. Yes, how are you?

We're doing great. How can we help? Good.

So I'm in a position, so really just looking for some advice. So my wife was involved in a car accident about a year, year and.

A half ago.

Oh, gosh. Is she okay? Yeah, she ended up being okay. She almost had to have some surgeries and everything, and it affected her work. She's a hairstylist, so she works for herself. She had some hand injuries and things like that. We incurred some medical bills and some time off work and everything else. My question is, I've got a list of our payments and what our debts are, and we're expecting to get about $22,750 back in a settlement from that accident. I was just wondering if you guys could help point me in the right direction, what we should maybe pay off, or we should put it in our savings account and just sit on it and continue to make our monthly payments like normal, just what the best course of action you guys.

Thought would be. Yeah, it's a good question. Do you guys have any money and savings right now?

Very little. So we have four kids, one of our kids is disabled. So it's a back and forth thing.

Okay, so really nothing and savings. So what's your debt like? Give me a list of it and the amounts.

Yeah. So we have about $44,600 on our house. We just incurred a new debt, which we had to buy her a vehicle after the accident. Hers was totaled. We owe $21,000 on it. We got a pickup that I drive, I have $5,000, $17,000 on it. Then we got a personal loan for about $2,000. Then somewhere in the neighborhood of $5,000 to $5,500 in credit card debt.

Oh, Stephen, you're not going to like what we say.

That's fine. No, that's what I'm.

Looking for. How much you guys make a year, Stephen?

About $75,000.

Okay. Yes.

Okay, can I say it before you give it to them, Rachel? Let me just tell you this. Stephen, how did you find us?

I was actually just scrolling through Facebook and ran across some Dave Ramsey videos and started listening.

How long ago? Not very.

Okay. Probably probably three months ago, if that.

All right. You are still in the entryway to our gang, right?

Yeah, you could call it the infancy, I guess.

Okay, I'll be super gentle and kind, okay? I want you to begin to transform your language. Okay. From, We had to. I had to go take a loan out and buy a $21,000 car. I have to have a $17,000 truck to, Yeah, we chose to do that. Okay, yeah. That's going to be key as Rachel walks through, because when you approach life as reactive, Life did this, so I just have to do this, you will stay broke for the rest of your life. If you say, Come what may, I will stand firm on a principle. I don't borrow any money outside of a mortgage, period, ever, and a mortgage only if I got to. Now you're about changing your entire family tree, okay? Okay. It's about taking ownership, okay? All right, Rachel.

Stephen, how much could you get for the $21,000 car? Have you, Kelly Blue, booked any of these in your truck?

Yeah. So my truck is actually worth about $30,000 in today's market. I actually just looked it up the other day. Actually, I had the dealership. The dealership called me the other day offering me $30,000 just to buy it out right from me. Wow. Okay. I'm not interested in doing that. Well, I guess I.

Could be. You're going to. You're going to.

Get real interested. You might be in a second. How about the $21,000? I could.

Definitely be interested in that. And then I think my wife's van, it's probably worth right at what we owe on it.

Okay. And did you say you have $5,500 in credit card debt or $500? About $5,500. Okay. And what is the credit card debt? What is that consistent? What were you guys swiping the credit card for?

It was Christmas last year, and I listened to part of the show earlier when you're just talking about.

Christmas- You're one of the 25 %, Stephen.

Yeah. And I was really hit home. And then school clothes and.

Everything else. Okay. So it's just life. Okay. So one bright side of this, Stephen, to make you be like, Okay, you're normal. You're normal. You guys literally are the every American family. You got two car loans, you got some credit card debt, you got a personal loan, and you're just living life. But you probably feel like, Steven, Oh, my gosh, we work really hard. And I feel like we're broke. I feel like we're barely making by. How is that possible? Okay, so that feeling that you're feeling is a flag that is raised in your emotions to say like, Okay, we're not doing this correctly. So the way you guys have been looking at money, because you caught on this show, the way we're going to advise you is a complete 180 of how you've been looking at money. And here's the deal, too, Stephen. You have to realize, Okay, I have to do a 180 because what I've been doing is getting me these results. And I don't want these results. I want something different, which means my actions and my thought process have to be completely different now. So what we're going to say is probably going to radically shake you up.

And you're going to be like, Wait, these people are insane. I mean, maybe a little, but we're also not broke. We do.

These things in our own homes.

Yes, we live this stuff out, Stephen. So if I woke up in Stephen's shoes and your wife's shoes, here's what I would do. I'd sell your truck today, get the $30,000, go get a $15,000 car. That debt's completely gone. You got a great truck or great car, whatever you have for 15K, you're calling it a day. I would take the $22,000 that you guys have, and I would knock out the personal loan, I would knock out the credit card debt, and then I would put anything else that's there, I'm trying to do this quick math, anything else left at the car loan. So you guys will probably have about, I think, $15,000 left on the van. And I want you, Stephen, for about a year to... No, I don't want to be a year. Yeah, maybe a year to work extra. I want you guys to take on extra jobs either at your primary job. I want you to drive for Uber Eats. I want you to do the most radical stuff to earn extra money and get this van paid off? Because you could look up in one year, Stephen, and your whole life looks completely different.

I actually just started a new, not new job, a new side job.

Oh.

Good.

Okay.

I'm a career firefighter. That's what I do for a living. Okay. Frankly, there's no money in that.

Oh, shoot, Stephen. Sorry I didn't mean to cut you off. We're going into a break anyways. But all that to say, that's exactly what I would do when I laid out for you. And it's going to feel different. It's going to feel uncomfortable. It's going to be strange. But I'm telling you, Stephen, this $22,000, if you guys get this settlement and you get this cash and you don't change anything, you don't cut up credit cards, you keep living your life, it's going to be gone. It's going to be gone. Put it to good use. Put it to good use, and you guys could look up again in a year and be in a completely different position financially. So we're cheering you guys on. Thanks, Stephen. If you're buying a home in today's market, it takes more than hope and an internet search. You need a team that you can trust through thick.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. If you are a new listener like Stephen from the last segment or an old listener that you've been with us for decades, one of the best things that you can do to help us get the word out about this show and get people the information that they need to help take control of their life and their money is to share the episodes of this show. So whether it's on YouTube, whether it's on podcast, it's one of the best ways to get the word out. And you guys, I see this stuff all the time, even from my friends and family, we always will text podcasts that we were loving and all of it. So added to that group and those messages that you're sending out anyways, because again, it helps us when it comes to getting hope, and direction, and guidance for people all over their lives or for their entire lives. So that would be a wonderful thing. So again, share the show, subscribe, leave a review, share with a friend. All right, up next we have Michael in Dallas, Texas. Hey, Michael, welcome to the show.

Hey, Rachel. John, how's it going?

Doing great. How can we help?

So I have a clothing business that I saw use Mins Clothing on eBay. And I've been doing it for about three and a half years. And recently, my wife was able to clear her W2 job and join me. And we are currently in baby step 6. And so I have a two-part question here. So I constantly feel like I'm in this race to increase my income with this business and whatever else it is in life. And with that, my wife and I are considering pausing, investing for three months and cutting out some of the necessary spending to use that money to put back into the business and grow our revenue quicker and in hopes that our goal being to pay off our house within three years from now. And I was just curious if there's anything wrong with doing something like that.

No, I wouldn't necessarily recommend it. I know it's just three months on one end, we're just pausing for three months. It's not that big of a deal. And then I would look on the other end and say, Well, it's just three months. It's not that big of a deal either way. So meaning I wouldn't pause it because I don't think three months is going to completely change your life and change your numbers that drastically.

Well, my bigger concern is running your business out of your checking account.

What was that, John?

My bigger concern is you're running your business out of your checking account.

Oh, no, sir. We have a business account, and then our personal checking accounts.

But you're talking about investing, like retirement investing is what you're talking about pausing for three months. Correct. Which is on the personal end, I think, is what John's saying. That should be money that you guys are using out of a income that you're paying yourselves. That's where the retirement investing comes from. So you're saying to pay yourself less?

Yes, that's what I'm saying. So just basically take home less a month. Basically take on what we need to survive and still enjoy life a little. Yeah. But and then use the extra money to increase the business.

Yeah, I hear you. And I just don't think I would, Michael. I think it sets a precedent that if we feel like we want to grow really quickly, we're going to just pause and pull back. I feel like you don't have to do any of that. You're not on fire, right? If you guys are about to lose your house or something, then I'd be like, Oh, yeah, I.

Cut everything. I'll go this far. If you told me, Hey, we've gotten real close. In six months, we're going to have our house paid off if we pause investing, I would say, Go knock your house out. Go get that thing done because you'll be able to catch back up with your... You're not going to miss that because your house payment can then go to fund your... So knock that out. Rachel, I like what you just said. This feels like we're always going to have this at the back of our head that we can borrow from ourselves. Now, if you wanted to pay yourself less in salary, that's a very common thing in your draw from your business. But I would want your giving and I want your investments to still be rolling with you. Does that make sense?

Yeah, that makes sense. And I guess part of that question, the first part of that was like, does that whenever the house is paid off, and this is my thoughts, like whenever the house paid off, I'm just curious, does that feeling that I have of just feeling like you need to increase your income and need more, does that go away once you have all of those expenses out of your life that are recruiting that are dilated?

Not necessarily, because I feel like that feeling, Michael, I could speak for personal experience, is more of an emotion than a fact. I think you guys are go getters. I think you've started something that's amazing. How much are you making a year with this clothing company?

Right now, $13,000 a month, $150,000 a year. Okay.

So you guys, I mean, you're doing great. I mean, you've created something out of nothing, and you're doing an incredible job. And so I think that there's a natural bend possibly to you, Michael, I could just be making this up, where you are hustle. And I want to do the next thing bigger, better. We want to pause retirement for three months because we want to throw more at the business. You're a go-getter, right? You're very proactive. But I think with that same spirit, and again, I'm saying this to myself, it can be like, okay, well, once we get to here, everything's fine. But you're going to get there, Michael. The house is going to be paid off. You guys are going to be... You could double your business, and it's going to feel amazing. And then in about five months, you're going to be like, okay, let's go to the next goal. And you just keep pushing yourself. And not that goal setting and all of that is bad, but I do think there's a contentment piece emotionally that's really important in this. And I don't know if that's exactly what you're asking, but yes, I think the weight of not...

Yeah, the weight of not owing anyone anything and this freedom is definitely there. But there's still a rat race inside of all of us that think and believe if I could just make a million dollars, if I could make 500 million, or 500 million, actually, that would be fantastic. I would take 500, $500,000. We'd be totally fine. We'd be set. We'd be fine. And then you get there and you live in it, and then you're.

Thinking-yeah, however much money you make, you go with you, right? Yeah. Here's what I would tell you. Here's how my wife and I have had to adjust our life. There for us, paying off our house was a massive exhale, okay? As Rachel said, then the old demons about, Well, you got to have this, and you're not enough for this. Here was the important question we asked ourselves that changed, and I'll tell you how it changed. It didn't change my go get attitude. I love working. I just.

Love it. Yes, that's.

Always going to be there. I like to pursue. I like figuring things out. I really like solving problems for people. You probably like making money, but you also probably helping people get nice clothes at a good deal, right? And you like finding deals. So after we stopped running for our lives, meaning we didn't owe anybody anything, my wife and I asked a question, What life do we want to have, and what do we want that life to feel like? Not like, What do we want? Well, we want another house and more cars. That's not what we asked. When you walk in the door, John, what do you want this house to feel like? Hey, my wife, when you walk in the door, what do you want the house to feel like? What must be true for that to happen? What that did is I'm still as ambitious and busy as ever, but I'm ambitious and busy about different things. In a weird way that I wish I had learned 20 years ago, financially, we're doing better going after things that make our lives more whole than I did just running around like a maniac trying to not be on fire anymore.

Right. Does that make sense?

Yeah, that's where this question arose from. We had a talk a couple of days ago, and I was like, Where do we want to be in three to five years from now? Mind you, we're 25 and 24, so we're just trying to get ready for our whole lives. And so we're like, Well, we want kids in a few years and whatever. So we wanted to just have this goal of paying off the house early before we have kids and get out of the way. We have this freedom to do things that we wouldn't necessarily have. I think.

That's what you're saying. But listen, I want you to ask a different question because everybody asks the question, Where do you want to be in three to five years? You know five years ago how different the world was. Three years ago, how different the world was. We can't control what happens in the world. One, Iota, zero. But I can control what I want my house to feel like when I walk in the door. When I walk in and it's COVID, when I walk in and I'm a professor, when I walk in, I'm a Dean of Students, I walk in and I'm a YouTuber, I can decide through the world we've created what that's going to feel like. Do you see what I'm saying? Go out five years. What do you want this house to feel like? I want there to be a kid, and I'm pregnant with kid number two, and you're laughing, and X, and Y, and Z. All right, what has to be true? Well, for me to walk home laughing, I can't owe anybody any money. For me to walk home laughing, we have to have somebody else cutting the grass for once.

You see what I'm saying? We're going to reverse engineer how we want this thing to feel, who we want to be, not like, How much money are we going to have? What car? Because you'll start cutting corners to get that money. You'll start cutting corners to get that new car. All of a sudden, you're going to end up with a hectic, chaotic life in a bunch of toys. Or you've gone on a nice vacation, or you have a pool, and you all are still the same hustle and exhausted people.

I think you guys are experiencing some wins really early in life, which is amazing. I think what can happen is that feeling can be so addictive where you're like, Oh, my gosh, we got to get the next and the next and the next and the next. And what John's saying, too, is there's depth in all of that. And you can do the same action, but your motivation is different. So check that motivation and you and your wife sit down and have that conversation because it's a good one to have. Thanks, Michael, for the call. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney. Our Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Neighborly, your hub for home services. Naborly is one place that brings together a nationwide family of locally-operated providers to help you take care of repairs, routine maintenance, and home improvements. Go to neighborly. Com/ramsie today to get started on your search.

All right, today's question comes from Adrienne in Georgia. Adrienne writes, My fiancé and I are in our 70s. I don't girl, Adrienne. I love it. And planning on marrying in the next six months. Dude, yes! We're going to end up at the end with no tread left on the tires. Good for you. I've heard your advice on always combining finances as a married couple. However, I'm not sure if that's a reasonable path when both parties have children from previous marriages. What's the best approach here?

That's a great question. That is a great question. Yes. Yeah, because, yes, you guys as an entity, as a married couple, you're going to be dealing with finances together. You're going to be paying household bills, working as a team on all of that. But it always raises an interesting point when there are grown children involved from previous families. And do you suddenly combine the family just because you got married in your 70s and everyone's equal? You know what I mean? Like, all of that. Yeah, and I lean towards keeping it separate still. At this stage of life, I mean, in my head, I'm like, your immediate family before this marriage was pretty much... I mean, like grown kids. You've done.

Your job. You've made your life.

This is something different.

That's right. Exactly. This is somebody like, Let's just party until the wheels fall off. Let's do this together.

Right. I love that. I'm all about combining your income at this point, seeing yourselves as one, because you guys could still have 20 great years. Twenty more years. -20 more years, that's right. So as much as a team aspect that you can do, I mean, all my advice would be the same, but I would say things like estate planning, wills, stuff with grown kids, if you want to keep all of that more separate and his money that he brought into marriage maybe is divvied up among his kids. I don't know.

Well, this is one of the very few times, and again, this matters a lot. If either of them have anything, it doesn't matter. Right. But if either of you or both of you have any wealth or an estate, this is one of the rare times when I would be okay. Not only okay, but I would recommend a pre-nup. Here's why. You're not protecting each other. You're husband or wife if one of you passes away from cousins and kids coming out of the woods, that is going to take stuff from you. It might be that I don't want... Rachel, if you and I were married and I died, I don't want my kids suing you. I don't want that mess. I want both sides to be protected here. But I do think for the sake of your marriage, whatever money, Social Security coming here, dividends coming here, I think they should go in the same pot. We're going to make married decisions about bills. We're not just going to be roommates for the next 20 years. Right. We're going to be married. So let's do it right.

Absolutely. Yeah. And that's not just from the technical aspect and the logistics side of it, but there's also an emotional part of this. I mean, Andrea, when you really do see yourself as one, and this is if you're 17 and getting married, or 27 and getting married, there's an emotional connection there that's really beautiful. And I don't want you guys missing out on that. Even for the 20 years maybe you guys have together in the vein of like, Well, we're just adults now, and we've done this all ourselves, so we're going to just keep it separate. I think you guys miss a level of intimacy and connection if you don't combine what, yes, the income that's coming in now or social security, all of that, your livelihood and your day-to-day life, combine all of that financially and work as a team.

And just for a different picture of this, my wife and I have been married for 21 years. It feels like 1,000 years we've been married, both good and bad. There's a chance they are married that long or maybe a little bit longer, right? That's a long time. Yes. So let's do it. We're married. We're going to be married. We're going to be all in, both feet in the boat. We're not just going to have one foot on land and one foot in the water.

It's good. All right, let's go to the phones. We got Lynn in Minneapolis. Hi, Lynn. Welcome to the show.

Oh, thank you, Rachel and John. I'm so grateful for your wisdom and can surely use some direction in our dilemma here.

Oh, well, thank you, Lynn. How can we help?

Well, we need to know how to leave a cabin in our wheel to our kids without causing resentment and issues.

Okay. Tell me about the resentment that you think will emerge if you give them a cool gift like a cabin.

Well, they would be getting our house as well. We own our house. We own our two cars, and we own our cabin. We are currently retired. One of our children, they're both in their 30s, they're adult kids, one has a family and has a really good job, and the other one is coming out of prodigy stage and is on really good track and is at the university, getting a degree, finishing a degree in cybersecurity. He's really good at computers and tech stuff. We're hoping the best for him at this point. But traditionally, he doesn't have money. The cabin costs about 25-30 grand a year just to sit there. It's not a fancy cabin. It was built in '58. But between property taxes and utilities, it costs about 25-30 grand a year. If this is given to them, and now all of a sudden, generally costs would be split, and they would probably split a calendar on it as far as when they would use it and stuff like that. The one without the money is, I don't know, maybe the one with the money is going to be left holding the bag to pay for things without the money.

Right. And the one without the money, I can just see this whole thing.

Yeah. No, absolutely. Lynn, do they both want the cabin?

Oh, yes.

They do. Okay, so.

It is like a- It's the family jewel.

Yes. Okay. Now, the one that doesn't have the money, he's not going to not have money forever.

Correct.

Right?

But that's been his life so far.

Yeah. Well, at that point, this doesn't become a gift. It becomes a burden to the point that he can't afford to be able to participate in something because you guys aren't leaving a million-dollar fund to be able to pull from to keep up the cabin, right? They're going to be expected to pay this $30,000 a year to maintain the cabin. And so it would be like any other asset, I think, as an adult that if I can't pay for this out of my own pocket and help keep this afloat, I can't afford it. And so I know that's really harsh. Oh, you're right. I know it's really harsh because of the situation, and it's a family part. But what ends up probably going to have to happen is I would still keep it 50-50, and then I would communicate all of this. But the older son, there's probably a reality that he's going to have to buy out the other half of the brother because the other brother can't maintain that. Now, in five years, Lynn, he could be able to help pay $10, $15,000 a year.

Actually, at this point, our estate is probably worth around five million. So at this point, he would be getting half of that. So he.

Could- He would have some money to be able to operate it.

Right. What about the possibility of putting it into a trust and then putting some funds, creating a fund that would pay for this thing for a decade?

Oh.

I love that. The language I would use would be an endowment. It wouldn't really be like that, but it would be an investment fund that was designed to pay for this thing for X number of years. The other thing would be this. What if you left it to your oldest son and said, In the will, it is our expectation that you share this with your brother? Yeah. He'll pay for the upkeep, he'll pay for the stuff. The asset stays in his family, of course, and so that becomes like, Well, I want to split it whenever we sell it. I don't want uncle, sue, and nephew thing.

But.

I'm like you. I don't know. I just hate to put somebody in a position where the whole, I've got to put fight. A brother's got to fight a brother because of a gift. Right. I'd rather uncomfortable conversation upfront, We're going to give this to your brother. The expectation is you'll be able to use it whenever.

You all will navigate that. Yes. But if he gets at that full asset, then he is still technically owed part that money, right? The brother will have to buy him out. We have a break. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Com/store. Welcome back to The.

Ramsey Show. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney. And we are taking your calls and your questions about your life and your money. With the giving season upon us. We do a giving show every single year, and it's coming up here in a few weeks. And so we want to hear stories from you and how you have given generously this season. So maybe you tipped a waiter, a waitress a hundred bucks or maybe you bought a Thanksgiving dinner for a family that couldn't afford it, whatever the creative ways that you have been giving this season, we would love to hear about that and that story of how it's changed you, how it changed the lives of the people that you are giving to. So if you go to rambassysolutions. Com/ask and put giving in the subject line, we want to hear your story. We do this every year around this time. And this show is going to be on December 18th. So start sending in your stories today because we are all about living like no one else. So later you can live and give like no one else. Giving and generosity is a huge part of our message, and we love to celebrate that.

So again, December 18th is our giving show. We want to hear from you, ramsiesolutions. Com/ask and put giving in the subject line. Can I say.

Something real quick about that? Yes. That we do not tell giving stories so that we pat you on the back for giving. I think the giving stories are super impactful, and I've learned from them. It gives me a picture of what giving looks like in the wild, and it gives me ideas because it might never have occurred to you to tip, you tip something $500, and they started to weep, like, Never even occurred to me. I'm going to try that. Right. You just walked into a Walmart and saw a mom with a thing full of groceries, and you just stuck your ATM card in her thing and paid for. It never occurred. This is putting off 20 different pictures of what generosity looks like in the minds of millions of people. This thing spreads all over the place. This is not about patting each other on the back to be like, Oh, way to.

Go, dude. It's not that at all. No, but it also is like good for the soul. It's so good for soul. There is good people out there. Yes, when you just watch the news all day and you start to get in this belief system that everyone's crazy and we're all, you know. And that is the funny thing. I'm like, we travel around to events, and we meet people here in the lobby all the time. I'm like, There's just great people out in the world, you guys, and doing amazing things. And when we can highlight that and encourage you, that's what we want to do. So it's a great point, John. All right, up next we have, Krissy, in Cincinnati. Hey, Chrissy, welcome to the show.

Is this real life?

No. It's real. You're dreaming, Chrissy. This is not real.

I feel like I am dreaming.

Oh, my gosh. Is this just fantasy?

Oh.

We're glad you called.

Hi.

Guys.

Hello. I cannot thank you both enough for everything that you guys do. And Dr. John Deloney. Oh, my gosh, my go-to for how to make it through the day. I have listened to every one of your podcasts probably 75,000 different times.

I haven't even listened to them at all. That's awesome.

Thank you so much. Me, your mom, and the other original 17. Yeah, dude. Awesome.

So what's up?

So my question today is I'm looking for, excuse me, I'm.

Looking for- Hey, do me a favor. Take a big, deep breath, Chrissy. And hold it for a count of three. One, two, and then let it out.

Okay, that's better.

Neither or neither of you and Rachel can drive very well, but you're safe. You're safe with us. What's up?

Awesome. Okay, so my husband and I were trying to get pregnant for quite a while, and we couldn't afford the IBS stuff, so we just kept trying. I had a plethora of different procedures over the last couple of years, including having a couple of surgeries to have tumors removed. And then in April of this year, I was scheduled for one last surgery to have what we thought was going to be the last of these tumors removed. And that surgery ended up being a complete hysterectomy. Oh, I see.

I'm so sorry.

Cleveland Clinic, as well as several of the local renowned hospitals here in Cincinnati, have given me a diagnosis of primary peritoneal serious tumors. And basically, all the organs they took out were riddled with cancer, and it has invaded my peritoneum. And there's things they can do to help, but nothing they can do to really make it go away. And so I am really just trying to figure out a way to deal with this while still being a parent to an 18-year-old and being a wife, and while still trying to manage our family finances because treatment is very much not something that is in our budget right now. And it's a scary thing to know that I can't afford the treatment to be better. And I don't know what to do. And I feel like I am at my wits end, day in and day out. And I feel like it is affecting my ability to be a good mom to my 18-year-old and to be a good wife to my husband and grieving the fact that we're not going to... My husband and I are not going to have a child together. And... And also just...

I'm only 37, and I am very much not ready to die. But this feels like I've been given a life sentence, and I don't know where to go. Yeah.

Will you do me a huge favor? Number one, well, number one, thanks for being brave and laying it all out there. I want you to take both of your hands. I want you to squeeze them as tight as you can for a count of three, okay? Where it's almost uncomfortable. Squeeze them as tight as you can. One, two, three. Open them up and open them wide, okay? Usually when people do that, their shoulders drop too.

Yeah, they do.

Okay, this is a posture. What is this for? This is the posture you're entering into the next phase of your life. Through your attempts to get pregnant, through your attempts to wrangle an 18-year-old, is this a relatively new marriage for both of you?

We've been together six years, but we've been married for just over two. Okay.

You have a picture of what a, quote-unquote, perfect wife is. Your grip on your life has gotten tighter and tighter and tighter and tighter. What you found out in the gnarly, ugly, scary, I wish you were here so Rachel and I could hug you and let you see that we love you and care about you, that we really don't control much of anything. Okay?

Right.

All of those questions you rattled off, I don't know about the money, I don't know about being a mom, I'm being a terrible this, I'm not good enough for that.

Let that.

Go, okay?

Yeah.

Does your husband love you? Very much so. Would he go to Helen back for you?

He has a.

Couple of times. I know. He'll continue to. Does that 18-year-old love you?

She does.

I know 18-year-olds sometimes don't know how to say it just right, but does she?

She does. She's pretty good at it.

What you have is two people, plus you holding hands, looking at this life that we wanted so bad that doesn't exist anymore. It's ash. The path before us is A, above all other things, we're going to fight and we're going to do what we can to stay healthy, okay?

Yeah.

The second thing is we're going to be really clear with each other how we feel, how we're doing, how are you, how can I love you today? How can you love me today? We're going to practice that new way of doing life together because we're not guaranteed anything other than write.

This out. Yeah. Hey, Kristy, did they give you... I'm not familiar with that type of cancer. Did they give you a time frame at all?

No, they haven't. They wanted to do more scans. They wanted to do some different kinds of treatment. I do not have health insurance, and the scan was like... I mean, it was like a $15,000 scan. So that was supposed to happen a couple of months ago and just hasn't yet.

Okay, okay. I want you to sit down with a hospital social worker, and I want you to ask for... Is there any in agent care or support care for people who don't have insurance? They'll point you in direction.

Because on life and death stuff like this, Christy, do what you have to do. You can worry about the money later. I know it's stressful, but I want you to do what you can to fight for.

Your life. So hear us say that. I'm so sorry. You and your husband spend some time creating what's this week going to look like?

We're going to take this week by week for the next year, okay? Thanks for the call, Christy. We're so proud of you. Thanks to everyone in the booth, John, for a great hour. Thank you, America, for listening. And remember to take control of your money and create a life you love. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with best-selling author, Dr. John Deloney. And we are answering your calls. It's a free call anywhere in the country at triple-8-825-5225. Talking about your life, your money, your relationships, your career, anything and everything, give us a call. We're going to start off this hour with Maria in Denver. Hi, Maria. Welcome to the show.

Hello.

Hello. How can we help?

I just had a couple of questions. So I'm doing a career change from law enforcement to medicine.

All right.

Yeah. It's a big change. I started working as a patient right at 21. I'm 23 now, and I decided to make the change in the middle of last year. I'm currently working as an Office Manager in a medical setting, trying to get my clinical hours, working on what I need to do to apply to med school. I am in debt from my undergrad, and then as well as a car payment and some credit card. And I'm attacking it, but I don't know if my plan of attack is the most stable or sound.

Okay. How much do you owe on all those debts? Will you list them out with the numbers?

So total is about 48. Credit card is 10, car is a little over 15, and then the rest is student loans.

Okay.

So for the credit cards, it was a move. I took out a card and then just moved. I know it's not super, super smart, but for that, I'm currently putting a little over 500 close to 600 every month towards that to try to just get it paid down and be really aggressive. My loans are on the save point right now, so they're deferred. And then my car payment is about $300 a month.

Okay, how much are you making a year considering you're doing all the schooling and everything?

Yeah, I make 37 now. I consider doing a switch, but I take my exams and everything for the med school admission stuff in July.

Okay. And how much after all of that will you owe?

So I've already paid for my exams, so I don't really have to worry about still paying on those. Okay. For the actual med school application cycles, I don't have numbers yet because again, I'm still working on my prerequisites and the exams and everything to even try to.

Do the application cycle. Do you know what it's going to cost you going forward?

Off the top of my head, I'm going to assume $2,500 is just an estimated guest for application, secondaries, all that stuff.

Okay. All right, Maria, do you have any money saved?

I have 200 in a higher rate dollars. Okay, okay. I don't have an emergency fund right now. Okay.

What happened at your police job? It sounds like you just said, Literally, I'm done.

Yeah. I was... My caseload was massive for me by myself. Again, I was 21.

Sure.

I thought that was something I had wanted to do. Everyone told me, This is something that'll be really good. You'll have a job. It'll be stable, blah, blah, blah. I wasn't making too much more than what I'm making now, and the stress was through the roof. My caseload was again, huge. I realized very quickly, I don't think I want to do this forever.

I'm going to give you an analogy. There's not going to be apples to apples, and then Rachel is going to walk you through this. Again, I'm telling you this to somebody A, who loves you and B who has sat with countless college students, and I was a graduate school professor, so I've been in your world, okay? Okay. You made a very quick decision. Here's the analogy. Again, it's not watertight, but it's close. You were driving a car that you didn't like. You were like, I want to drive such and such car. You got it? You're like, I don't like this car. You just pulled over on the side of the road and you said, I want a Mercedes. You just started walking to a Mercedes dealership. I'm not saying you should have stayed in your job. We're in desperate need of extraordinary law enforcement officials, but also our professionals, but also that's a demanding, brutal job. I grew up in that home. Those are my friends. I get it. I'm not saying that's the thing to do, but I'm also saying, Man, it sounds like you are not in a place financially to swan dive into med school, which will be one of the most, if not the most challenging academic endeavor a person can enter into.

It's tough. So, Rachel, can help you pull apart the numbers. But you're in a bigger mess, I think, than you think you are.

Yeah, because I'm trying to think, Maria, with your timeline, I want what you've done so far to be credible in the future. But I can't, in good conscience, tell you to continue down this path and go into med school eventually with money you don't have while you're owing all of this. And so how old are you?

Twenty-three. Okay. And luckily, I'm planning to actually do the application and stuff in 2-3 years. So that's not something I'm wanting to do tomorrow.

Okay. So what's your plan for the 2-3 years in the meantime?

Yeah, just pay off what I can, complete prereqs.

Okay, that's a good plan.

Okay, so could you consider going to nursing school for two years and making exceptional money and building yourself a pretty remarkable foundation and then deciding... Because here's what I don't want you to do. I don't want you to go through all this, get all the prerecs, and then go through three weeks of med school and be like, Oh, this sucks, too. You see what I'm saying?

Yeah.

Yeah, there's some things you can do, and especially with your age. Your age is on your side, right? You have the time- Big time. -to be able to slow walk this. Because, Maria, I think one of the best places you could be mentally is entering to something to John's point, med school, which is one of the most stressful environments I could only imagine that someone walks through where I would say, What if you went and got a job somewhere and you made 60 grand. You paid off the credit card first, which is what I would do, the 10,000. I would pay off the smallest amount of debt to the largest. I would pay your $300 minimum payment on your car, like you said. But I would be throwing that extra 600 more at the credit card, cut it up, get rid of it, pay it off, work to pay off the car loan next, and then your student loans. And you work your way down. That's $48,000. And if you can do that, pay that off and live like you're in college, Maria, like you're 23. So live on nothing. Try to find a great job, hopefully, maybe in the medical profession.

If not, like something else, doing something. I just think if you can enter in to med school and make those decisions in 2-3 years without any debt, having some savings, three to six months of expenses saved in the bank, and then start making these career altering decisions and financial decisions from that place from a financial aspect, it is way less stressful than trying to juggle all of this. So, yeah, if there's a couple of things you need to finish up here in the next few months, you can do that. But then I would pause, I would go find a job. I would. That pays well? Pay the state off. Pay the stat off, and then reevaluate med school, Maria, which I know is probably not the answer you want, but I think that's the best one. This is The Ramsey Show. All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. We're answering your calls. And up next, we have Felicia in Waco, Texas. Hey, Felicia, welcome to the show.

Thank you. Hi, how are you guys?

We're doing great. How can we help?

So last year, I had a property that was my primary residence. Me and my husband bought solar through ADT and a partnership program. And they promised us that we would hopefully get almost $14,000 on our federal tax return.

I bet.

They did. Oh, they sure did. And that we get the return, we pay it, and our payment stays down to 187, some odd change. And so taxes and rolls around, we file. Come to find out, if you don't get that money, you get a percentage. And I believe we got like it was either just under or just over two grand by like a hundred bucks. So clearly we did not have almost $14,000 to pay the deferred portion. And so now our payment will be going up. It's either this month or next month that it takes effect. And I called the company and I talked to them and I told them, what the heck? You guys said we would get this. You made promises you can't keep. I don't know what to do. I don't have $14,000 to just be like, here, there you go. Keep my payments low.

Yeah. What did they say?

They were rude to say it nicely. And basically, we're like, Well, blah, blah, blah, it's your fault. It boiled down to it's my fault. I'm uneducated. And I did blatantly get called an idiot.

I sound like.

A wonderful people. Do you have any of this communication in writing? Is it part of a contract you signed or any email or text message communication?

I have the contracts, which states that you get whatever that percentage, which amounted to that almost $14,000, that we would get it in return, which we were allowed to then apply to our overall loan to keep the payment low from that deferred portion. However, once I told them, Hey, by the way, we don't get that. That's not how that works. They were like, basically, you need me, sucks to suck, and then told me I was an idiot.

Well, there's two different things here. Three different things here. One, don't conflate legal matters with business matters with idiots, okay? You're in a business relationship with them, with jerks. Let me just say jerks and idiots. You're in a business relationship with them. Let's put your emotional side, they called you an idiot. You know I'm never going to do business with them again. I will never recommend them. I'm going to call the better business period, whatever. Cool. Let's put that over here, okay? That's when our emotional side gets fired up and we do things that we wouldn't possibly otherwise do, or we say things that aren't really us because we're fired up. Let's put that over here. If you're holding a contract that says based on percentage X, you're going to get $14,000 back that you're going to apply to the principal, it's going to keep your payment low, then they have an obligation to meet the terms of the contract. If they don't, you have two choices: you can walk away or you can sue them. Okay. That's the point of a contract. My guess is it's going to be in the middle somewhere that basically the language is closer to, unless they put the number 14 grand, they're going to say, No, you get a percentage up to possibly including something like that.

You may be entitled to up to something like that. Then when they actually did the calculations, it was 2014. Their salesman, which are unscrupulous, told you the highest possible return. You can make up to $5 million. Most of our people make $50, but you could make up. You see what I'm saying?

Right.

How much do you guys owe on these?

It's somewhere in the 40s. When we did our taxes, it says... In our tax paperwork, it says it shows that full 13, almost 14,000. And we get a percentage of that. So that's the percentage of the total loan. And then we get a percentage of that 14,000 yearly, apparently, as long as we.

Own the house. But it's within your payments and it just lowers it.

Right. When we file every year, we can get a percentage of that 13, whatever, thousand.

Let me say this. Did you take the contract to your tax attorney?

Yes.

They said, I'm sorry, this is what you're entitled to.

He told us because we don't owe taxes, we get lower returns. Basically, because essentially we're too good with our money, we don't get to get the money upfront from the government.

You're not getting a big tax return, you mean? Correct. Okay, on the back end, they don't send you a big return. Okay, sounds like one of two things. Either they ripped you off and you need to have an attorney look at the contract. My gut tells me they painted you a very, very, very rosy picture of a possibility that did not come true and probably almost never comes true, but came true once or twice so that they could tell everybody that this is what happens. Okay. You entered into a deal with the devil. You took out a debt payment, and now it's come back to bite you. I think I- Very hard. Yes. My gut tells me at the end of this, you're going to have to figure out how to pay this thing off.

Right.

Yeah, I said a little bit of my fear, Felicia, and it sucks. We call it stupid tax around here of doing something. This hurts. And you just think, That was so dumb. But there's no way out, right? Because I don't think with solar panels, you can dismantle them and resell them on a different market or something. I think with a lot of these, and we get this call a lot with, Oh, my gosh, we want to put solar panels on because it's going to save X, Y, and Z. This has been part of... We've heard this discussion a lot, or not a lot, enough, that at the end of the day, it never ends up financially being a smart move. I hate to say it, Felicia, I feel like you guys just.

Fell.

For a great sales pitch. And then as the numbers came in and it laid out in front of you the facts, it's just not the picture they painted to what John said. But again, if there's more legal issues, and again, getting a good attorney on your side just to look over some of it, if there is a case there and you guys want to pursue legal action because you do feel like we were lied to in a contract, that's one thing. But having somebody from a legal standpoint be able to go through it with a fine toothcomb. And if they deliver the news, which I'm believing probably will be true, is that it's like, Yeah, you all signed up for this. The return is not what they said it's going to be, but the way the language speaks or something you can really do about it, and you're stuck with a bad financial decision, Felicia, which hurts so bad, and it sucks.

I wish we had better news for you. By the way, Rachel, I'm a huge fan of solar panels, but I'm not going to be under any illusion that I'm doing it to save money or that it's somehow a different alternative investment to- Right. -buying the rental properties.

-and to go into debt for it. Absolutely not. Because that's the big thing, is people get caught up in this idea. Oh, it's going to save here and all of this. If we take out this loan, a little bit of how Felicia painted it. I feel like I've heard that verbiage, that language, that idea around this specific thing, solar panels. You got to just run the numbers, right? Yeah, I'm not saying they're bad necessarily, but I think a lot of people justify debt to go into them. That's usually what we see on the show.

It's very similar with student loans. If you do this, there's a government program for this and then this other thing. Anytime somebody says, Hey, the federal government is going to… I know. Just stop and say, I want to see this in writing because I don't.

Believe you. Let's start there. Sorry, Felicia. I wish we had better news. This is The Ramsey Show. All right, guys, we got to face some facts here. The holidays are right around the corner, and with the holidays comes more spending.

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Hey, welcome back to The Ramsey Show, Rachel. I want to talk about our first-ever illustrated kids book, which I love it. My daughter loves it. It's the perfect gift for parents who don't want to spend a gillion dollars but want to get their kids something beautiful and something with a positive message. Tell me about it.

Thanks, John. Yes, it's called I'm glad for what I have. And it is beautiful. The illustrations are just so cute. And here's the deal with our kids. One thing I want to teach my kids is it's okay to have stuff. Stuff is not bad. But if your motivation to have stuff is to keep joy and happiness going, you're going to be very disappointed in life. And so contentment is such a powerful principle in our lives and for our kids. And I have an eight, six and four-year-old. Our four-year-old said a few months ago, Is the Amazon guy coming today, Mom? I was like, Oh, my gosh. I created these little monsters. And so I just thought, You have to get this and understand it. But also, John, what's funny, and you know this about parenting, most parents do, I can say it and read the book and all of it. But my actions and how I live life and how I interact with money speak way louder. So the message, yes, is for the kids, but I also wrote it for the parents that at the end of the book that there's truth that you can say, Okay, I can settle into something so much greater than me, and it's not stuff.

So it is called I'm glad for what I have. So this Christmas, I've gotten more DMs. I've gotten lots of parents that bought it. So thank you, parents. So many grandparents. Yes. Lots of grandparents are buying it for the grandkids.

And I think if your grandparents and you grew up in an era when you didn't have a lot-.

You know that you can survive.

Without it. -you know like, What are we doing? And then finally a beautiful message comes out in a cool book that's like, Hey, you all are going to be good. So that book, along with the 2024 Ramsey Goal Planner, which is a planner that Rachel, me, and our great friend, Jade Warshaw, work together to help you line up your faith, your relationships, and finances through monthly teachings. For those of you, like my wife is still an OG, likes to have a planner in her hand that she can write in with this awesome piece of ancient technology called a pen or a pencil. The Rachel Cruz Wallet. Thank God, Rachel, it's finally.

A Navy. I know, so many colors, the Navy's out.

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That's right. All right, I'm next. We got Juliana in Charlotte. Hi, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you for.

Having me. You're welcome. Absolutely. How can we help?

So my initial question is, I'm interested to know what you guys think about consolidation.

Loans for debt. Please don't. Please don't.

And the why behind that is what we have found is that debt is a symptom of behaviors that are going on. And if you can't control the behavior, you're going to get the same result. I think a lot of people depend on debt consolidation or have the belief that it's somehow going to rescue them out of their situation. But what's going to rescue them out of their situation is actually changing their behaviors and learning how to deal with money. And so we find that almost everybody can pay their way out of debt. They can get themselves out of debt. They don't need debt consolidation that comes with fees and everything. The one type of debt I would be okay with you consolidating is student loans, because usually that's not a type of debt you go back into. So if you wanted to do that because you had a better interest rate, that's something we can talk about. But yeah, just this idea that it's going to sweep in and save you, that's what a lot of people believe, and it's just not the case. So what position are you in or what's the situation that's causing you to think about that?

Right. So I see what you're saying, but that really doesn't apply really... I mean, I'm not saying... So here's the situation. Okay. So recently, my husband, who has a history of some mental illness, snapped, and there was a life-threatening situation which ended him up in a mental institution, which he's still there now.

Oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry.

I'm pretty sure because of some things that happened on his job that he has lost his job. But in the interim, I work and he is the breadwinner. So all of our money would go to one account. All of our bills would just come out of this account automatically. And that's the way we've done this for years and years and years. Now, all of this debt that we have, and mostly primarily because of his history of having to be in hospital, as previously, I've had to go into some extensive credit card debt, personal loan debt, and it hasn't been a problem to pay these things with his check because he was the breadwinner. But now my check is not going to do it. So am I looking into a second job? Yes, I am. However, I'm 58 years old. I have a medical condition that requires treatments every eight weeks myself. So it's not like I can do a lot, a lot like two and three jobs. I might can do another part-time job plus my full-time job and hopefully get some of this. But in the meantime, the thing is what scaring me is all this debt is like my...

Right now, my checking account is going in the negative because these things are coming out. My bank is trying to pay them and charge me.

For it. You got to stop. Juliana, Juliana, I want you to... You just got- I have to stop. -thrown... You were on a boat in the ocean, and that boat just exploded.

Yeah.

I don't want you to keep trying to drive the boat as though it still existed as it did before all this happened. Okay. So you're going to have to think about all the way you've been doing things have to be different effective immediately.

Yeah, you want to stop all of those automatic transfers.

All automatic payment stop ASAP. Right when we get off this call, I want you to call the bank or go to the bank and cancel all of them. If your husband is the only person on the account and he is- Yeah, we're on it. You're on it? Okay, good. We're stopping all automatic payments. Okay. If these are medical bills, we're.

Going to- They're not.

What bills are- The credit card. -running you into the ground?

I'm about $8,000 in credit cards and $8,000 in personal loans in debt. They've just been set up to come out automatically.

Yeah, we're stopping that. Okay. In fact, we might have to get a new checking account because I don't want any credit card company having my checking account number, period. End of story.

Okay. You might.

Need to tell the bank, Hey, this credit card keeps withdrawing from this account. I need to move my money to a new account and close this.

One because I.

Don't want them to have access.

Yeah. Is it one credit card or multiple credit cards that add up to $8,000. Multiple. How many?

Six.

Okay, so here's what I want you to do. I want you to get very detailed. I want you to list out all six credit cards separately, okay? And then the personal loan, I'm assuming, is just one loan, correct? Three. Three different loans. Okay, list those out separately, okay? So you're going to have nine different debts on a sheet of paper. And I want you to go through and figure out, okay, where... I want you to mark down all the minimum payments on all of this, because how much do you just bring in a year?

Well, I get I've recently started a new job about four months ago. I did have to take a slight cut in pay, but I did that because.

The benefits- Okay, so howHow much?

Hey, let's do this. Let's hold.

Her over. 30 is.

Hey, Juliana, I'm going to put you on hold because we want to finish this call and help you out the best we can. But we got to go to commercial break. When we come back from the commercial break, we'll pick you up from that call because we want to help you the best that we can. Hang on. This is The Ramsey Show.

Our scripture of the day comes from 2 Corinthians 5:17. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come, the old is gone, and the new is here. Max de Pree said, We cannot become what we want by remaining who we are or what we are. I guess it's true. We cannot become what we want by remaining what we are.

Yeah, I think that's.

100% true. Yeah, but what if we're okay with-.

Then you've become what you want to become. -what we want. Good grief. All right, so in the last segment, we were talking to Juliana from Charlotte. Juliana is married to somebody who has been suffering from some significant mental health challenges who ended up in an institution, and they have set up all their bank payments on automatic draft. So the bank is coming in and taking out these credit card payments and personal loan payments, and they're running out of money quick. Juliana is asking, Is a debt consolidation loan a good idea? So we're walking her through. Here's the mechanics of what you should do. First of all was stop all the automatic payments. And since the credit card companies have her checking account number, she may have to go to the bank and close that account and open up a new one. So that's where we landed ourselves. Juliana, does that sound about right?

Yes.

All right. I think we were asking you, Juliana, you took a new job, but we were seeing how much income you bring in a year.

A year is around $33,000.

Okay. And you took that new job. What was the reasoning for that?

So for benefits-wise, I don't have to pay my insurance. Okay. And so that was a great benefit for me, considering like I said, I have medical conditions. So it was just a huge benefit for me and a few other extra benefits that I didn't have with my other job. So I did take a little bit of a cut in pay. But then again, having to pay the insurance on the other job, it equaled out really. So I just felt like they offered a retirement plan and just things that I wasn't offered before. And at my age, those are things you start.

Thinking about. Sure. Go ahead. Well, so I was.

Going to- In the meantime, I didn't tell you that in the meantime of this happening, I also found out 100 % sure that my husband was having an affair. Oh, my gosh. I know that this time our marriage is over. I'm not going to go back into that situation. I've made up my mind. Okay. I'm going to have to handle this on my own, and I definitely have been in prayer about it, but I just don't want to make anything wrong decision. Sure.

I would contact... Rachel, go ahead with the nine debts you have in order, and we're going to add up the minimums here.

Yes. I just want you to get a handle on just the minimums because I don't want you getting behind. But right now, Julianne, I think it's fair because of what you've just walked through. It's traumatic. And then you find out your husband's been cheating. There's a lot going on. Honestly, I would be okay, Julianne, if you just stay afloat that you just can pay minimum wage. I don't want you getting behind because that's going to create a whole other mess and lots of stress. But if you can just keep everything afloat, pay minimum payments, stay current on everything, and let some of this- I don't- Go ahead.

I don't make enough money to pay all the payments on my own.

Well, since you all are about to go through a divorce proceeding, I would actually contact an attorney, ASAP, and they may be able to freeze these payments while they're sorting out what's going on because he's going to be responsible for a big chunk of the debt as you all split up your estate.

If he doesn't.

Have a job, then, well, yeah, but he's going to have to write you a check for some equity in the house for future earning. There's going to be some settlement here. If his claim is, Well, I got fired from my job, I'll never be able to work again, then you will figure out Social Security. There will be a process here, okay?

Okay.

But I want you to call a local attorney in your area that you trust. Maybe somebody from your local church can help you with this, and you're going to have to be honest, and you're going to have to tell the truth. Not that you're going to lie, but you're going to have to just be vulnerable and tell something that's going to be hard and scary and hurtful. But I want you to get somebody to walk with you and give you some on-the-ground advice, okay?

Okay.

I'm so sorry. It's a lot, I know. And walking through this, I think, is going to be so difficult. But I think on that end, I want you to make sure your lights are on, utilities are paid, food is paid, house is taken care of. So we call those your four walls. That's even before debt. So making sure that all of that is there and talking to an attorney. And you may get to a point that you'll look up and your income will be sufficient enough to help pay down your portion of the debt, whatever they give you. And also, if not, there's stuff, whether it's selling stuff, whether it's working just eight to 10 to extra a week. I mean, the things that you can do to get out of this, because we've seen it. People do this all the time, and it's hard. It's not easy, but it is possible. So we really do have that belief. But you're walking through a really hard personal thing right now in your life. I think it's okay to grieve that and to be that. But yeah, I would call an attorney ASAP, especially if you know that you're done with the marriage.

I don't know if this is going to be worth the breath I'm spending on it, but it may be worth calling each one of those credit cards and letting them know my husband's been institutionalized for mental health break for a psychiatric disorder. We don't know when he's going to be released, but he is unable to work at this time. I'm asking for a forbearance, or can we push this off for 60 days or some medical, something or other. They may say, Go pound sand, but it's sure worth asking. And maybe a couple of them will say, Yes, we'll give you 60 days. We have a special program. Send us the paperwork, his admittance paperwork, or something like that that might give you a little bit of breathing room. And here's the last thing I'm going to tell you: find a friend. You cannot navigate this by yourself. Call a friend that will come over and have coffee with you every morning or a couple of days a week and have somebody that you can talk to. Thanks for calling, Juliana.

All right, real quick. Let's go to Morgan and Tulsa. It's going to be a fast call, Morgan. I'm sorry it's the end of the show, but you've been waiting, so I want to get to you. How can we help? That's okay.

No worries. So I'm mainly calling just for some advice. My grandma has saved in a 529 account for me since I was really young, and I don't have any intentions on going to school as of right now, I got married young at 19, started a family young. And my husband and I are making around $80,000 a year. We have $33,000 in total debt. And in this 529 account is around $40,000 is what I can assume. So I don't know how to go to her because she's very career-driven. She really wanted me to go to school. She didn't want me to start a family young and have a baby. But that's what I've wanted for my life. I don't know how to talk with her and say, Hey, this money is just sitting there. It expires in five years. We could potentially really give our family a boost by paying off our debt and having a fully stocked emergency fund.

I just don't know how to do that for her. No, well, if you pull out of 529 and it's not on educational expenses, you're going to pay income tax and a 10 % penalty. So with your income, I mean, it's going to be around 35 % out of this 40. So no, you're not going to have the total to pay this debt off. And if 529 to Morgan look into this, but if it's been open longer than 15 years, which it has, you can roll it over to a Roth IRA up to $35,000. So the majority of this can be rolled over to retirement, which would do you way better than cashing it out and having to pay taxes and the penalty and everything to pay off this debt. So you and your husband, that's what I would ask her to do. And if she's a queer woman, she's going to be like, Good for you, because if accounts been open for longer than 15 years, you can roll it over to Roth IRA. So Morgan, I would roll it over to a Roth in your name. It's been open longer than 15 years. And so that's exactly what I do.

I would not cash it out. I think.

You would lose - I didn't even know it was.

An option. So thank you so much. Yeah. The Biden administration passed it. Something great happens out of Washington last year, and it's fantastic. So, yes, you can actually roll it over. So I would talk to a SmartVester pro. If you go to ramseysolutions. Com, you can look up one in your area. But, yeah, that's exactly what I would do, Morgan. And then another option, if that's what you and your husband choose not to do, you can also, with 529s, roll them over to another beneficiary. So you can actually earmark that money for your kids. You can actually split it up and have that for their college, too. It's just it is money that is grown tax-free. I mean, there's so much benefit to leaving it in that account and protecting it that I wouldn't want to touch it for debts. I think you and your husband can attack that debt. So thanks, Morgan. Thanks for the call. Thanks for all of you in the booth. John, great hour. And also with you. Always fun hosting with you. And thank you, America, for listening. Remember to take control of your money and create a life you love.

Dr. John Deloney here. Mental and emotional health challenges, broken relationships, it's all just part of life, but they don't have to define you. The Dr. John Deloney show is here to help. It's a collar-driven podcast where you can get practical advice on dealing with anxiety, loneliness, depression, relationship challenges, your kids, and so much more. Listen to questions from our callers, or if you're walking through a tough situation and need some help, give me a call. You were never meant to do life alone, and that's what this podcast is all about. Follow along on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or the Ramsey Network app. Remember, you're worth being well.