Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Not the fake kind, the real kind. I'm your host, Jade Warshaw, joined by Rachel Cruz, host of the Rachel Cruz show that you can find on YouTube. Also, smart money, happy hour.

Love that. Right?

Also the author of I'm glad for what I have.

Listen, the list goes on. Oh, Jade, it's good to be here with you.

Love it. All right. If you want to talk about your life or your money, you can give us a call. The number is triple 8825-5225 and we will do exactly that. So let's go straight to the phone lines where we've got Nicole in San Francisco, California. What's going on, Nicole?

Hi, Jade. Thanks for taking my call.

No problem.

My question is, I live in a very expensive area. Half of my take home check goes to my rent. I work remotely. So it's kind of ridiculous that I'm being here and I'm thinking about moving to. Moving to Texas. I see that the new constructions in Texas, they have lower interest rates, like 4.9% interest rates, whereas the interest rates right now are 7%. And I'm wondering if that's too good to be true. Why are the new construction interest rates so low and attractive? And should it be something that I pursue?

I have heard of new construction being able to offer lower rates. I guess they're eating that cost at some point within the process. I just love that you're looking at your situation and saying, listen, it's too expensive for me to live here. Rather than continue to struggle, I'm going to embrace new opportunities. So I don't think it's too good to be true. Does your question go further?

No. Yeah, I was wondering if there was some sort of trick that they're doing that I'm not understanding. Also, it's a big move for me, and it's something that I want to do because I am single. I just live by myself and my dog. And if I were to move to Texas and save money, I would be able to pay for egg freezing, which is something that my job doesn't help pay for. And it's also something that I was like, I know I don't want to finance it. They have a lot of payment plans for egg freezing. And it's something that if I moved to Texas, I could save money, because even a mortgage payment is going to be way lower than what I pay for rent right now.

Yeah.

And we're seeing that, Nicole. I mean, like your situation, it's very common, and we're seeing that a lot with people in these really high priced areas, especially where you are, San Francisco, the Bay Area, I mean, I think it's number one right now in the most expensive places to live. But you look at people in New York and different places, and we're seeing that people are gravitating, obviously, to places that they can actually have an affordable lifestyle and actually enjoy their money, versus being taxed high real estate, being insane, and experiencing exactly what you're experiencing. So just know you're not alone in that change, even though that's a big change. You're right. I'm like, when you decide to change locations and states, and it is, you're uprooting your life, but I think what you have to realize is you're doing it for a reason, right? You're not necessarily running away from something, right? You're running to the life that you want. And in order to get that and do the things that you want to do, like freeze your eggs and different things, you have to have more margin. And so that means other areas of your life are going to have to look different in order to do that.

And so you're just kind of weighing the pros and cons. And I really applaud you for that. And it's not easy, but it's a reality. I think a lot of people are facing 100%.

And here's the thing. Even if you get there and you realize, oh, man, whatever they quoted me on, the interest rate, it's slightly higher, or it's not quite that. It's still a better situation financially, you're still going to get more for your money, you're still going to be able to afford owning a home or getting a place for yourself more easily. So what are you looking to spend? Can you tell us a little bit about what you're looking to spend? Obviously, having your rent or your mortgage be 50% of your income is just not sustainable long term. So have you identified a number that puts it at 25% and what you could spend in order to get that?

Yeah, so I was looking at homes around 300,000.

Good.

Which here I would be 1.5 million. It's crazy. Well, good for you, Nicole. Yeah, I think it's great. And I think builders are feeling a little bit of the pinch of people pulling back. When rates went up, suddenly everyone kind of paused and they're like, I'll just wait to see if rates drop and then when they drop, they probably will. They're going to fluctuate. We're in an election year. Things are always kind of up and down, and then when they drop, everybody's works. And I think Jada just drives prices back up. So if anything, the time is to get in now, and you can always refinance later. But if you're in a good position to buy a home, I'm not saying everyone needs to rush out and buy a home, but I think her, Nicole is a great example of kind of looking at all your options, being wise. And I think, yeah, homes are not selling, have not sold, at least in the calendar year of 2023, like they were in 22 and 21. So I think builders are feeling a little bit of that pinch. They're probably wanting some inventory off their hands, and if they can partner with the bank and all the things and get a lower rate, they're probably doing that to entice people.

But obviously, Nicole, do your due diligence. I mean, your home is, for most people, the largest purchase that you make in your lifetime. So don't rush into something, because I think sometimes, at times, even these new builds, if they go real quick up, they may not be the best quality. I mean, you want to look at for sure quality, look different areas and all of it. So do your research, because it's a big change and a big purchase. And even, Nicole, what you could do is, since you're moving to a brand new state, you could even rent, which I know you're 100% so tired of renting right now, but you really could for six months to a year, just to be like, okay, is this the part of Texas I want to be in? Because once you buy a home, you're planted there for a bit.

Yeah. A completely new state, completely new culture. I 100% agree with Rachel in that I would rent for him, and I definitely would not do, like, a long distance home purchase. I wouldn't do that. But to your point, there are new builders that are offering those kind of incentives on the rate because we had callers call in saying, listen, I'm trying to sell my property, and it's hard for me because I'm having to compete with a new builder around the corner who's offering a lower interest. So that is definitely happening. So just do your due diligence, do your homework. Don't just jump out there and buy the first thing you see that seems right. Mean. I think it takes a while, Rachel, to really get the feel of a new neighborhood, let alone a new city, let alone a new state. Like, there's a lot of.

Absolutely. Yeah. And I think Nicole, too, I do applaud you just for looking at options, because, jade, we talked to a lot of people and they're stuck. I feel like we always pick on California. But California is expensive. Your real estate is high, and it's a high cost of living. So it's an easy place to pick. You know, a lot of people and they're like, well, I'm in California. I'm in California. I'm in California. This is it. This is it. And you have to realize about anything in life, which, again, I know uprooting your life is a big deal. So I'm not saying it flippantly, but I just love the fact that she is taking initiative and saying, hey, I can make choices in my life.

That's right.

And for me to have the kind of life that I want, it's going to require some changes. And so for some of you, maybe it's changing your money habits. For some of you, it's changing location. I mean, I don't know what it looks like for you, but this idea that I have control over my life and I get to make decisions for myself, it's powerful.

That's right. And remember, it's not just change for the sake of change. It's change to get you where you want to go. You want to be a homeowner. You want to have more margin in your budget. You want to be able to enjoy your income. So focus on that side instead of focusing on the uncomfortable part. The change. Or I may not know anybody and just like, think of it as an adventure. You're off on an adventure to create the life you love, in the words of Rachel Cruz.

That's right, Jade.

This is the Ramsay show.

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You'Re listening to the Ramsay show. I'm Jade Warshaw, this is Rachel Cruz, and we're taking your calls for the next couple hours about your life and your money. So give us a call. The number is triple 8825-5225 and we would be happy to answer any of the questions that you have. In the meantime, the Ramsay show question of the day is brought to you by neighborly, your hub for home services. Neighborly offers a helpful winter maintenance checklist that you can download for free@neighborly.com. That would be very helpful for me. And for the more challenging stuff in and around your home, neighborly has a local pro to help find out more@neighborly.com. Slash Ramsey.

And today's question comes from Heather in Wyoming. I'm a stay at home mom, and this has been the most stressful, painful past two years of my life with my husband making horrible financial decisions that left us over $500,000 in debt. He owns a tree service business making $70,000 a year and is trying to start a mobile mechanic business and has purchased an investment property. We have $163,000 mortgage on our house. The rent is a total disaster. That's completely. The rental. I'm sorry. The rental is a total disaster that's completely gutted. And we have to make payments every month while earning no income with it and no progress on the repairs. He also bought a brand new truck that we owe now $84,000 on and $18,000 on a loan on a bobcat for the business, a $20,000 home equity loan that he used to fix up the rental. Oh, and over $5,000 in credit cards. He keeps saying he's working on it, and he is a hard worker, but has put us in a completely impossible situation that angers me and stresses me out every single day. I work od hours because we can't afford childcare, nor do I want to give up time with my kids to fix a problem that I did not cause.

I feel so stuck and hopeless. All right, can we just listen?

I wrote it all out because I'm trying to track with this.

Okay, Heather, you shouldn't be this way. She's very bitter, as we can tell. Yes, very resentful, which, again, is valid. But they feel like not only different pages financially, but they have been split now, emotionally, really severed. It sounds like she wants nothing to do, I mean, nothing to do with him. And $5,000 in credit card.

Stuck and hopeless.

She is not in a good place, which I get it, Heather. I'm like, yeah, all these decisions were not wise decisions made. He made decisions without obviously talking to her or working as a team. So what do we do, Heather? What are we going to do?

I'm seeking counsel. Number one, I always talk to folks about keeping their money safe, Rachel, and it's kind of like an acronym. And the first thing to decide where you're at. So s is for seeking counsel. Like, if you're noticing trends within your money with your spouse that you're like, what's going on here? I feel uncomfortable. I feel unsafe financially. I feel like there's something going on. Seek counsel. And then you're going to find, listen, if there's things like addiction, abuse, that's the a. And then f is financial infidelity, which this is getting real close to falling under, in my opinion. It is because he's going out and spending massive amounts of money without your permit.

I say permission.

Your input. Input, yeah, without it mattering. And then the e of that is you need to evaluate your options. So that's how you go through this. And I do think that this is a. Sometimes people think financial infidelity is like, I'm just hiding money under the mattress or something like that. But I'm like, this is a lot of money. And it sounds like we don't know Rachel, but it sounds like she has made her objections clear. And it sounds like we could be wrong. It might be something that he did. And then after the fact, she was like, how could you do that? But even still, there's financial issues here. But when I look at this, I go, this is a couple who desperately needs to go to therapy. They need help.

Yeah. And he's obviously not living in reality.

No.

And there's people like that that we talk to. And I hate to pinpoint people, but it's the dreamers. It's the, oh, I have an idea, and this idea is going to work, or I have a new idea here. And don't worry. Don't worry. This is surely going to. And it's a level of immaturity to a point when you actually make decisions in those dreams and they don't come to fruition, you have to have reality to say, I can't do this anymore. So there's a safety here, Heather, that I would want for you. Like a point where you're like, I can't keep putting myself. There's a level of danger there in this situation that's endangering my kids and my family. That is what it is. So that weight that you're feeling is very real. And I just want him to wake up to the reality. And I think what's going to have to happen is a third party, you're probably not going to be the one to do it, Heather, sadly. And I think sometimes that's mean. All of us feel that way with our spouses. There's always that thing that you're like, if this, this or this, and you can say it and then it ends up being nagging and it's not effective.

But when you actually sit down with a third party, usually if it's coming from someone else, it's speaking there. But that's it. I'm like, the financial issues here are a symptom of where you guys are in your marriage. And again, I don't blame you, Heather, for being angry and bitter, but what are we going to do with that? We can't just sit in that and continue to be in that cycle. You, Heather, have to then grow and learn. Are there boundaries you put up now? What do you do now? What are those steps? Yes, that's right. Which is really hard, but situation.

Yeah, that's right. Because something's got to change. And in a situation like this, not to belabor it, but there's very little you can do to control the other party. Like, there's nothing you can do really to control the other party. But you've got to sit down and figure out, okay, what am I, Heather, going to do in order to try to better this situation? I can seek out counsel. I can put these boundaries in place. But then you've also got to kind of have that point of where you go, okay, where does this just get completely, you know, that's up to you. And like Rachel said, a third party to decide.

And Jade, we talk all the time about couples staying on the same page, being on the same team, all of this. But there's extreme situations that we talk about a lot. And I mean, Heather may be in one of those for me where I'm like, there's a point that you have to protect yourself and your kids, right? Like, if he's going to continue to spend, I mean, hundreds of thousands of dollars, I don't want my name on those.

I don't want my name on that. And if you're headed towards. I'm not putting this evil on you, but if you're heading towards a point where, like, listen, I don't know. If I see us together in the future, the more he racks up, I don't want to be any part of that. Because if you don't stick together, like, I'm looking, like, is part of this going to be on me? No. Yeah.

So for the time being, Heather, there's probably some hard boundaries I would put up to protect you and the kids, but working on your marriage could solve a lot of this. And then my prayer is that they would get to a point that they in agreement and realize, okay, he's not going to do X, Y and Z. And now as a team, we have to work together. And if you guys get to that point, Heather, that's where you have to say, all right, we're in this together. What are we going to?

And then it's on both of you to just link arms and get out of it together.

And that's what we pray for. We don't want this to split couples, but this is the stuff that causes divorce in marriages, right?

100%.

Another spouse doesn't want to take the responsibility of the decisions they've made. They're probably not taking responsibility in other parts of the marriage, too.

That's such a good point.

So hard.

Such a good point. And such a good reminder, man, it's uncomfortable and it is not fun. But have conversations with that person that you're engaged to or even that person that you're dating, and if you've just gotten married, start having these conversations. You've got to know the other person's philosophy on money at the end of the day and not just make assumptions and go, oh, they've got a good job. They probably have it together, or they don't seem like they have a lot of debt, like really digging deeper and figuring out and just know even when you dream together, Rachel, like, I know there's times Sam and I will sit together and think about, oh, it would be cool to have a business like that one day, then take it a level deeper and go, well, to what extremes would you go? Like, I would never take out money for a business. Would you really ask the questions, find ways to bring money into the conversation? So you really understand in a lot of different facets what their views are on money, because as we see here, it can really be an issue long.

Term, such attention point. So, yeah, it's a big relational wedge that's caused. So, yeah, you're exactly right. And I think especially when you're dating, engaged, we get this question a lot of when do I bring up the money? When do all of it? And we would always encourage to be having hard conversations about everything, right? And we've talked to people on the show that have been dating for six years, and they don't know anything about their partner's financial situation, and they think this or that. And I remember being on the show with you one time. We were like, what do they talk about?

I know.

So take this stuff seriously, you guys. I'm like, don't ask about their 401k on the first date, but that's a little extreme. But start understanding to be in the same value system with the person you're going to link arms with. But it's a hard one. It reveals a lot.

Listen, I say all the time, if you have babies together, you can share a bank account. That needs to be it. And both people's opinions should matter. And sometimes it takes some time and many, many conversations and counseling to get to that point. But go through that journey. This is the Ramsey show.

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This is the Ramsay show. I'm Jade Warshaw. This is Rachel Cruz to my right. And we're taking your calls, so give us a call. The number is triple 8825-5225 and we'll try to help you out. Let's go straight to the phone lines where we have Avery in Newport News, Virginia. What's going on, Avery?

Hey, Jaden. Rachel, it's so great to talk to you. I can't wait to see you guys in May.

Awesome. Oh, you're coming to the total money makeover weekend?

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I'm bringing a Friend too.

Love it.

That's exciting.

Love that. How can we help today?

All right, so here is the situation. My mom always says, the strongest thing in the universe is compound interest. My brother always says, time in the market beats timing the market every time.

Let's go.

And I thought I was smart enough to time a dip. I had about $21,000 worth in a fidelity mutual fund in my roth Ira, and I sold my positions on it back in September. I was going off a bad hunch and have watched the market rally by at least 20% since. And I've calculated that I've missed out on about $4,000 worth of gross. I'm kicking myself. I still contribute weekly, but that $21,000 is still sitting there in the account. Feel like I've learned my lesson. But what do I do now? Should I buy back in, or should I wait for the rally to end and maybe buy in at a dip?

Listen, first, I'm glad that you've learned your lesson, and I hope that it sticks. Do you have any debt?

I have no debt.

Okay. Do you have three to six months of expenses saved?

Yes, I do.

Awesome. Listen, I'm getting back in today, and from here on out, I'm adding 15% of my gross income to it every single month. Okay.

Today.

Yeah. How are you feeling? Are your armpits sweating? What's going on?

Yeah, I don't know. If I buy now, I feel like.

If you wait, you're timing the market again. That means you haven't learned your lesson. Avery.

Yes.

Listen, because, Avery, I think the point, though, is that all of this is long term, right? So whether you get in today, whether you get in in 30 days, whatever it is, the earlier you get in and you ride this out again, long term, we're talking decades here. That's what's important. So $4,000 at the end of when you're 65 is going to be a drop in the bucket because how old are you now?

I'm 25.

Yeah, it is if Avery of February of 24 is different than Avery in July of 24. I mean, if you wait six months or whatever, it's not absolutely the end of the world. But I think it's more about the principle behind this. Right. The idea is that I can't time the market. It's an election year. We have no clue what's going to happen. And so if anything, I'm like, yeah, the lesson is I'm not going to try to time the market. The lesson is I want to invest long term. That's what I'm doing. So to practice on the principle of the idea is to say, yeah, I'm at a position to start investing, put my money in the market.

Yeah.

Okay. And so even if I buy in today and then it goes down, I feel like I'm going to kick myself again.

Avery, you're not going to worry about it until you're 65.

How old are you?

25.

Listen, think about it, okay? I think you're focusing, and Rachel tried to lay it out for you, and I think she did a beautiful job, but let me take a swing at it. I think you're so focused in whatever rate of return that you're hoping to get immediately or in the next couple of months. But if you look at it, I don't know if you're new to the show, but we talk all the time about, oh, you can get. Even if you just invest in an s and P 500 account, you're still going to look at about 10% over time. Everything is over time. And if you're pulling it out every month or every other month, or when you think the market is dipping, you're not allowing for the rebound. That always happens on the other end of that. And you can look over the last 20 years, even. You can just see, listen, the annualized rate of return has been upwards of 10%. And that's what you can count on. That's why we suggest what we suggest, and that's why everybody invests in these accounts in order to have their retirement.

Avery, I say this in the most loving, big sister way that I can. You are going to be your worst enemy, okay? You're going to be the person that's going to be going on CNBC and watching the ticker at the bottom daily and saying, oh, gosh. Oh, gosh, Avery, you have to put the money in, and you got to forget about it. That's what this is. This part of investing is that it is long term retirement type mentality, and it's going to take some restraint from you and your personality, because already I'm trying to talk you off the ledge, and your money's not even in the market.

You know what, Avery, you have to relieve. Avery is who really needs a smart vestor pro, because one of the things that they will help you do is not freak out, talk you off the.

Yeah. So it is one of those things mean, I watch the market for this job, so we know what's going on in the economy, but from a personal standpoint, I'm like. And it kind of sucks for me, Avery, from a personally, because I'm like, I'm such a spender. And when we fund our 401 ks and roths and all the things that we're supposed to do because we're smart and we're wise and we actually do it, Jade, even though it kind of makes me like. Because it feels like a black hole and I'm like, this money is leaving. We could be going on a great vacation this summer.

That is hilarious.

So it does kind of feel like, man, my money is just leaving, and I'm never going to see it again. But you have to know that 65 year old Avery is going to want to live a great life, and you're going to have plenty of money to do that. Avery, if you start investing now and not try to time every little thing. Because when you're in that little situation, that's the principle you live by. You're not going to win long term because you have to have a long term mentality.

Yeah, you can't do the. I feel like he's trying to find a way to maybe make this thing happen faster and get rich quick. And I'm like, listen, it doesn't work that way. And if it does, I feel like it's a fluke. And then everybody tries to figure out what it was that they didn't. It's like, listen, just understand it was just something that happened in a moment. So I hope that helps.

Let's take another call.

Let's go to Haley in Philadelphia. All right, Haley, what's going on?

Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call.

You're welcome. How can we help?

My question is, I'm wondering if I should sell my car to pay off my student loans or if I should keep my car paid off tomorrow and follow the baby steps to pay off my student loans.

Okay, well, how much do you have saved and how much is the car bringing if you sell it?

I have $10,000 saved and the car value on Kelly blue book is $15,000.

Okay. Do you owe anything on the car?

Yeah, I owe $5,000.

So essentially you'd be. Go ahead.

How much is your student loans? I have 17,000 in student loans. Okay. How much do you make a year? I make 70.

Okay.

No, I would not sell this car. No, you owe $5,000. Throw 5000 of the 10,000, have it paid off today, and it's gone. And then you have 4000. Keep $1,000 in an emergency fund, take 4000, throw it at the student loans, and.

Gosh.

And you got 13,000 left, making 70,000. Yeah. You'll be able to pay off these student loans quick.

Yeah. I love it.

Okay. I would not sell it. Okay, perfect. And right now I'm putting 11% of my take on pay into my 401k. So I'm assuming I should probably stop that.

Yeah, that's right.

Pause that. Yes, exactly. That'll be more money back in your paycheck to throw at this debt, which is awesome.

Yeah.

I mean, if you had, like, we talked to a girl two days ago, me and George did. And she had an suv, BMW. She could sell it for like 70,000. I mean, it was a pretty big chunk. She owed some money on it. She could have paid it off with all this stuff. It was an asset that was like, oh, my gosh, you could sell it and make something, but no. With a $15,000 car, you owe five, you make 70, you're in a great position just to sell it, and you have that $10,000 saved, which is awesome. The reason why I wanted to sell my car to begin with is because I live in Philly and I work from home. So I'm literally using my car once a week, and that's only to go see my parents. That was kind of my. But it makes sense, too. I don't feel like it's something that's.

On fire for you to make that choice right away. I'm with Rachel. If you still owed 15 on it, it might be a different discussion. But the fact that you only owe five and you have the five in your possession and you still have money to make decent headway on the student loan, I feel like it's something that after you pay off the car and maybe a year from now, if you're like, listen, I never use this car. You might decide to sell it, but for now, sticking with it. Listen, good job. I'm happy for you. You'll be debt free in no time. This is the Ramsey show.

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You are listening to the Ramsay show. I'm Jade Warshaw. This is Rachel Cruz. And let me tell you something. I'm hyped, guys, because we have a great live event coming up in the late spring. Actually, it's May 10 through 11th. It's the total money makeover weekend. And listen, I've been here for some really great live events, Rachel, but I think this might be the one that I'm most excited about. It's going to be all the personalities. It's a whole weekend here in Nashville at our live event center up there on a beautiful hill with a beautiful view of Nashville and the surrounding area. And we're just giving you a crash course on the baby steps, how to manage your money. I love this event because it's really for anybody, regardless of where you are in the baby steps. You could be on baby step one or baby step seven.

Yes.

And you're really going to benefit from being at this event. It's like a rally.

Rachel, I'm here for know at Ramsey. We've done so many different types of events, like you said, and we try to know some events. We try to cover your whole life and we try to do it all. But it is fun to kind of focus in on a subject like money, which know, it's what we talk about most of the time here on the show. And so to have a whole weekend dedicated to that and really have the time to walk through principles and ideas and motivation and fun. George and I are going to do a smart money happy hour live broadcast the Friday before. I think I'm allowed to say that. Go ahead and say it. If I wasn't supposed to. Sorry. And yeah, there's just some really fun things we're going to be doing. And if you are a fan of the content on this show and others, you're going to love this weekend.

It's a really fun, listen, I'm excited. I had a meeting yesterday with one of our folks on staff who helps plan the content, and I told her one of my ideas, it's out of the box. Rachel.

You're always good at that.

It's going to be so early bird tickets start at $99, but remember, it's for a limited time. So go to ramsaysolutions.com events today because Rachel and I both know these tickets sell out super fast. And if you want that early bird pricing, you got to do it today or like tomorrow. This weekend, you just got paid. So go on ahead and do it. It's $99. Get that now@ramsaysolutions.com. Events that's exciting, man. After that, I feel like we have to go to the phone lines. If you want to call in the numbers, triple 8825-5225 and we'll try to get to your call. But in the meantime, we have Madison in Tampa, Florida. What's going on, Madison?

Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call.

So I'm just in a predicament. I just found out that I will be terminated from my job that I've been at for almost five years as of July 31 of this year. Sorry, what do you do? I'm currently a business financial administrator for a sales and marketing company.

Okay.

Yeah. I make about $43,000 a year at this job, so I have six months to plan. We're not officially terminated until July 31. And at that time, we will receive severance, although I don't know how much. Okay, keep going.

I was going to say I don't.

Currently have anything in savings, and I'm worried about what's coming next. Yeah.

So, Madison, the way I would handle this, when we talk to people who are paying off debt and there's a big life change that they are aware of most of the time. It's a baby, right. They're pregnant, and we call it stork mode. Pause the debt snowball, and just pilot money. And I would say the same would be true. If someone knows that they're going to relocate and they know that they're going to have some moving expenses, we'd say put some of that money aside. And for you, thank God, you have six months, which is a gift to at least know that they're not coming in and they're like, today's your last day, honestly. So for now, I would save as much as possible. I would be in that mode of saving. Saving. Do you have a lot of debt?

So I have about $13,000 in debt.

What's it in?

The majority of it? Student loans. Okay. I just recently got my accounting, my associate's degree in accounting. Okay.

So what I would do, I would be saving, Madison. And then I would start looking, what may ish and say, hey, or even line up a job sooner than that.

I'm trying to do it now.

Would you leave the job? I always wonder about that. They give you six months.

I mean, if you know it's happening in six to. I personally would not wait to the wire. I'll be honest with you, Madison. I don't know a ton about the financial admin space. Is there a lot of jobs out there? Is it easy to just kind of go in, apply for something and get it? Or do you feel know that it could be a couple of months to find something? What do you think? Have you looked or do you kind of know the landscape? So I don't think there's much as far as the admin side, but I do have a part time currently with a company called Primerica, and I'm currently getting licensed. I just recently got licensed for life insurance, and I'm currently trying to get licensed for investments. So I've been trying to build that. And I am also wondering. So I'm about to receive my tax return. That time of year, I'm going to receive a nice chunk. I have a twelve year old, three year old, two year old, and a one year old. Oh, we didn't know that.

So you have four kids?

Yeah. So I'm going to receive about a little over $10,000 from my tax return. And I'm wondering what my best steps are to save it.

Are you married, Madison?

No, I'm not.

Okay.

I have a partner. I have a boyfriend. Okay.

I just didn't know if there was, like, a dual income situation.

Here's the thing. I'm the breadwinner in my situation, okay? What I don't want you to do is stick around simply to get the severance. Like, thinking, like, I'm going to do this thing up to the wire to get especially an unknown amount that you're like, listen, I don't even know how much it is in this equation. I care more about taking care of the stability and taking care of the kids. So really lining up something, or at least listen, start getting options. It's not to say that you have to take the first job you apply for, but start seeing what's out there. If I'm you, I'm using this as an opportunity to take a step up, find another position, know within my field of knowledge and what I love to do to possibly get a raise and get a higher salary. And really just look at this. I mean, I know it sucks and it hurts. You've been there for five years. But like Rachel said, it's a gift that you've got six months. And really think of this as the stairstep to the next best thing and the next good thing for you and your family.

And before you get off here, let's connect her with some of the Ken Coleman materials.

The assessment, his book, proximity principle, would be great, too. Yeah. So, Austin, if we can give those to her. That's a great point. Yeah. And Madison, I would be encouraged, too. It's not like you're trying to replace $143,000 position. $43,000. You can do that. You're smart, you've done this, and. And you've been with this company for five years. So there know a part of you that you want to leave. Well, but I don't know why. My heart kind of flipped on this, Jay, but when I'm like, oh, you got four kids, all right, we're a single mom. We got to provide now. You have to do what's best for Madison. And I think you can leave well and respectfully, but I would be looking for another job because you got to pay your bills, and if you find it and you find a job you love and they need a sooner start date, I would just tell the company I would give plenty of notice. Do it respectfully, but you have four kids to take care of, so I would do this faster. And again, I hate to say if you're a single person all that, but there's not as much that's right.

It's on you. You could probably have a level of flexibility to a degree, but when you have dependents in your household, you want to make sure that you're well covered. So I would be saving that tax return. I would be saving every penny you can between now and finding a new job.

Well, let's talk about that, Rachel. Okay. So when I was in my day, if you left a job, it was like, listen, give two weeks notice or more if you can. Is that still like the running?

I think so.

Is that still the thing, two weeks notice?

To me, I feel like that's a respectful right in the, like here at Ramsey, if someone gives her two weeks, they usually don't laugh. They don't stay the whole two weeks. It's like, hey, let's wrap some stuff up because once you're done, you're done. Yes, but if they're in a position of, because it sounds like layoffs, so the company is not in a good position. So if she does have a critical role, I would want to hand that responsibility off to do it well before my area is gone or whatever the situation is that'll never bite you in the butt.

It's all, you never want to burn.

Bridges is very appropriate.

I think so, too. I'm like, listen, if you can give more, if there's a way to do that. I'm not.

People give less. And I'm like, or two days or whatever, terrible.

Or to just walk in and be like, I quit. Are you kidding? Listen, you never know. One thing I've learned, Rachel, is you never know who you'll run into on down the know. You get older because the world is like, it's big, but it's small. And I have always been shocked at the people who have come back around in my life, or vice versa. And it's kind of funny, because sometimes people want things, and I'm like, I.

Know how you worked with you before. Yeah. But Madison, too. And anyone out there that has a big change like that, I think. Jade, you said something. I was like, yes. See this as an opportunity of growth. And Ken's book, the Proximity Principle, is really going to help you find that next better thing. Right. This is a closed door to open something great. And we want to believe that for you, Madison.

Absolutely. Well, thanks for hanging out with us. Keep hanging out with us. We're going to take more of your calls, hear from more of you guys. Coming up next. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm your host for this hour, Jade Warshaw, joined by your other host, Rachel Cruz. And we are taking your calls for the next couple hours on your life, your money, whatever it is that's going on in your financial situation, we'd like to help you with that. So give us a call. The number is triple 8825-5225 and we'd be happy to give our two cent. All right, let's go straight to the phone lines. We've got Trevor in Tacoma, Washington. What's going on, Trevor?

Hey. Thanks for taking my call.

You bet.

Yes. Had a question. Me and my wife have been paying off debt for the past seven years, slowly. But we have two items left, which is our house and my student debt.

Okay.

Last year, I started investing through fidelity. And within six months, I've put in about $10,000, pretty much from side hustles.

Okay.

And my student debt is around that same amount. $10,000. It's the last debt I have. I feel like I know the answer, but I'm wondering if I should pull that and pay off the student debt. I haven't made really any money in the stock market, only being in there for six months.

Is it just a brokerage account or is it a retirement account?

I have two. I maxed out last year, and then I've started this year. So in the Roth, I have about 7500. And in just normal brokerage, it's about 1800.

I would not touch the Roth. It's retirement. And I do not want you to start the habit of, if I need money, I pull it out of my retirement. Now, if you had single stocks laying around. Listen, what's in the brokerage is technically up for grabs. It's not a whole lot of money, but it's some money. What I really want to hammer home, though, is the idea of just stay the course. It sounds like you understood that the plan is for you to pause retirement until you finish paying off debt. But it sounds like, and I relate to this because when you said seven years, everything in my body went, I know about that because it took my husband and I seven and a half years. And it sounds like you kind of got a little bit weary and maybe felt like you were getting behind, and so maybe you started investing. And I just want to encourage you from this point on, listen, I would stop investing and finish paying off this debt. Like I said, don't touch your retirement, what you've put in there already, if you want to pull what's in the brokerage, you can.

There's no penalty on that other than maybe a little bit of tax on it.

How much do you guys make a year, Trevor?

We're a single home income. I stay at home and home school, two kids and she makes about 70,000.

So you guys have been paying off debt for seven years. What was the debt you guys paid off and how much was it?

It was actually my side. We got married a few years ago and it was all my side debt and it was, oh, jeez. The whole story of me being in the military overseas, my other significant other, not paying off debt, and it just stacked up, racked up and it was horrible.

Gotcha. Gotcha.

Okay.

I talk about credit card to repossess.

You guys have been through it, Trevor. I mean, to Jade's point, I'm like seven years. But honestly, so I get know there's a weariness there. We're just like, oh, my.

Yeah.

But what you've done though, so far, which is one of the biggest obstacles for people, is to change what you believe about money. Right. There was one set of beliefs that you had overseas in the military that got you. Those choices created an outcome that you said, I don't like this outcome. So you have been working your way right out of this. So I think that one of the biggest, again, hurdles you've overcome that is, hey, I'm going to look at money differently. But then you get into the details, into kind of the nitpicky stuff. Like we are here at Ramsey where we're like, pause, retirement. There's certain things you do for a reason. This isn't just for the heck of it. It's because of what we've seen over time. And this last bit, Trevor, I mean, this is like. I know. I hate to even relate it to this, but I just watched a video. It was on Instagram reel and there.

Was a. I mean, the cars are paid off now. Is there a way I can do both? Maybe make a higher payment on my student debt?

No, I think you just pause it. You're going to be okay for a year. For a year. And you guys make 70,000. And I would even. Trevor, if there's anything at night that you can go do, if you can make a side gig with $1,000 a month, that's going to add to this.

This is where my monies came from with side gigs, like, putting into this.

What about the 70? Do you have anything that you guys, from just a lifestyle standpoint that you can cut?

We've been cutting the past two months subscription.

Okay, good. So you're kind of back in it. It's that fuel, but it's almost like you're limping a little bit to that finish line. And I want you to sprint. Like, I just want you to want you to get there and you're going to be okay. If it pauses for a year. How old are you guys?

33.

Oh, yeah. You guys, Jade's got. Yeah, Jade, give us.

I love walking you through this. Okay, you said you're investing a little bit now. What percentage are you investing? How much a month?

Again, it's not from our actual account. It's from me doing side hustles. It's around 1000 a month.

Okay. You're investing 1000 a month, which means, obviously, when you have this debt clear, you'll have that and more to invest. Right? So let's just pretend that you said right now there's 75 in your roth. I'll just put it at 5000 just to be. I'm going to make this so foolproof. And let's say that every month you do an additional $1,000 every single month.

This is after you're out of debt.

This is after you're out of debt. And this is. I'm going to do like a super conservative rate of return. I'm going to say 8%. Just for all the hater aids out there to just calm down. And let's say you retire at 33, right? Let's see how much money that would be for you. Oh, shoot.

No, not retire at 33. He has 33.

Oh, he has. He's. I'm saying for 33 years.

For 30 years. In 30 years. Okay, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Wait, Rachel, keep the conversation going because my computer is being.

Yeah, so he's 33, and let's say in 30 years, you decide that, yeah, I'm going to retire at 63, 64. The beautiful thing is that you'll see the decisions you've already made with the Roth, which, again, would not completely agree with because you still have debts. But the proof is that even if you waited one more year, didn't contribute anything to investments in retirement, paid off debt, went back to investing in retirement and put money away in 33 years.

Dude, $1.5 million in 30 years.

Just pause. This year.

My point is, you're still going to be just fine. Sorry for the delay. My computer was not doing what I wanted it to do. But that's starting at $7,000, which you said you have 75 in your Roth right now. That's a 30 year term. You're in your. You're going to retire in your 60s. It's a very conservative rate of return that I put in here. You're going to do better than that rate of return. I'm just letting you know. And this is $1,000 a month. Like, come on, now.

And then 15% of your income, too. With that 70,000, I would push you guys to say, yeah, instead of that going to debt, that's going to be now going to investing.

And this is assuming nothing changes. Like, you're going to earn more money, you're going to have more opportunities. I just want you to see, worst case scenario is $1.5 million. Come on, Rachel Cruz. Oh, my goodness. I'm so excited. I feel like people need to do this more. People need to run out the numbers and stop letting it circle above their head and cause the fear that's out there. It's like you're over here getting a stomach ulcer because you're like, I'm getting too old. And I used to feel that way. My husband and I didn't start investing until our mid thirty s. And now I see, like, we're going to be just fine. And you're going to be just fine, too. Work the plan as planned. It works every time. This is the Ramsay show.

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You are listening to the Ramsay show. And by the way, thank you for listening to the Ramsay show. We're just so grateful that each and every day you guys choose to log in or go onto YouTube or go to your podcaster and pick our show to listen to. Like, that's great. We're here because of you all, and we just want to encourage you to keep doing that, keep liking, keep subscribing, and really keep sharing it with people that you think will enjoy the content that we give to you guys every single day. It doesn't cost you anything. And it really is beneficial for us and for the people around you because they get this wonderful resource, but it also helps us because it just helps the algorithm favor us a little bit more above some of the other things that are out there. So if you like this, tell other folks about. Know they might have their crime podcasts that they. But, like, tell them about the Ramsey show.

It's with me.

Listen, these crime. Don't.

Rachel, I don't get it, but I'll send you one.

I don't know if I can watch it. I feel like.

No, the listening. You listen.

Listen.

Okay.

Yeah. You don't watch.

Yeah. There's nothing scary. You see, you just listen. Get ready. I got you some.

Rachel Cruz loves her. A prime podcast. Jade Warshaw, your other host, is fearful of, you know, listen, as long as we're part of your daily routine and you listen to a little bit of the Ramsey show, then go listen to a little bit of your other podcasts. So, so funny. Well, anyway, my point was to tell you that we appreciate you and keep doing what you do. We're going to go to the phone lines where there's Tony in Rochester, New York. What's going on, Tony?

Hi. Hey.

So I'm calling because I am quite a bit in debt. It's gotten to a point where after I pay my bills and subscriptions and things that I got going on, the amount of credit card debt I got, it pretty much takes over the rest of the paycheck. And we're trying to manage it. I'm looking at options. Sold a car. Considering maybe selling a house.

A house? Do you have more than one?

No. The house.

The house.

Okay.

Selling the house and maybe using that to bring them down. I make about 100,000 a year.

Is that including your wife?

What's that?

Is the 100,000. Including your wife?

No, it's just me.

Just you? Does she work outside?

Well, that's our household. She's at home.

Okay.

And I'm the one that's working outside.

How much credit card debt do you guys have?

We got about 126.

126,000 in credit card debt?

Yeah.

No, it's okay. I can hear it in your voice, Tony. That's hard. That's really hard. What was the reason for that?

Well, I was out of work for a year, trying to figure out different things. I attempted some things on my own as well. I wasn't able to make enough to get us out of. To be able to sustain us for a long time, start getting debt, started getting credit cards, to be able to manage until I finally got a job. And then it's grown because I guess there's a point of, you have enough debt, the payment gets you to a point where you can't make what's left is not enough. So you got to continue getting more and debt more and more and more. We haven't been able to manage reducing the expenditures enough.

So how long have you been in this job that you're in now? How long has it been?

About a year.

Okay, so when did you decide, when was the point for you that you were like, I got to do something different. This isn't working.

Well, as soon as I'm looking at the numbers, I mean, two years ago. Well, for a while we've been wanting to do something, but it's become quite urgent now. So we're trying to figure out how.

Much are you paying every month? How much are you paying every month towards these credit cards?

3500 more.

1500. Oh, 3500. Okay.

And is that minimum payments?

That's the minimum payments. Wow. And you mentioned a car. Tell me about the car situation.

So we had two cars. One of them I ended up having to spend quite a bit in repairs and things like that. And I said, well, you know what, I got it fairly nice, but I didn't want to continue. So I have another car that's newer and it's in good shape. I own loans on them.

Sorry, Jeff, I only have one car.

Right now at this point.

So there's one car. The car that you said you didn't want to continue with. What did you do with it? Do you still own it? Does it just need the repairs? You sold it?

Sold it.

Okay. So now you're a one car family.

There's a one car family for now, yeah.

Okay. And the car that you have, what do you owe on it. And what's it worth?

I owe about 30,000 on. It's probably worth the same amount, maybe a little more. It's fairly newer, so it's kind of.

Okay.

The loan is a little over what the car is worth, so if I were to sell it, I don't know that I'll get my money back.

Yeah. You'd be underwater in it.

And you have no savings, I'm assuming nothing saved anywhere.

Well, just a little bit. Very little.

Okay. That's off limits. What I want to ask about. Sorry, I'm going to pry. Like, I'm putting my crowbar in and I'm prying out. Your wife's a stay at home mom?

Yeah.

How many kids?

She's actually on the line, too. She's hearing us.

Hey, girl.

Hi.

Hey. So you're staying at home, you're doing some heavy lifting. How many kids are you watching and taking care of? Three. Three. And what's their ages already?

Our oldest one is eleven, Andrea is eight and the youngest one is six.

Okay. So when I'm listening to that, I'm hearing school aged kids, which is great because that daycare bill is not a thing. So my question is, and I'm going around this delicately, but I think there's room that you can work as well, because right now the most money that you can bring in is what's going to break the cycle.

Yes. I'm just trying to make smart choices.

Like I was telling him, it's just difficult to sit down. Sorry.

Search for a job, that it's prudent in terms of knowing the hours, minimum per hour. And just with one car right now, we are managing. So he takes the car for the.

Most part right now, or if not the bus.

It is a bit difficult, but yeah, that is my main goal.

Well, I always say get a job until you get the job. Because right now, literally anything you do is going to help you guys out.

Yeah. If you drop the kids off and go work at a bakery for whatever it is, like go doing something.

And.

What's your name, can I ask? We have Tony and. Okay, yeah, it's not that I haven't tried, I believe. Sure. To come up on the side job, like staging. Because here's the deal, you guys. I know Tony had mentioned, or at least it's here on our screen. One of your biggest questions was debt consolidation. And so here's the deal, you guys, what's going to fix this issue is, you guys, it's not rearranging this credit card debt and trying to find a lower interest rate.

That's not your problem.

The problem is that you guys lived a cycle with your money that got you in this problem and in this mess. But the beautiful thing is, yes, you were the ones that got yourselves in this mess, but you're the ones that's going to get yourselves out of it, okay? And so listen to each other, because this is the stress point, because you're starting to make that turn of saying, we're going to do something differently. She's looking for a job. You've sold a car. I mean, you guys are feeling this tension. You're starting to make these choices. You're getting in the right direction. So stay on the same team because Tony's not feeling great about himself. And when I heard your voice immediately, Tony, I thought, he's caring so much. There's a lot of shame. Yes, there's a lot of guilt that you feel, Tony, like, this was my responsibility. I tried taking care of my family and this is what I got us in. She is supportive. She sounds wonderful. She's willing to help. But you guys, together, you have to work as a team and stay on the line because Austin's going to pick up and we're going to give you financial peace, university and every dollar premium, which is our budgeting app.

And you guys sit down together, go through these lessons, learn the basics, because debt can sell validation. That's not going to be your answer.

Not the option.

You are your answer. You guys can do this. We take these calls every day and hear people that do their debt free screams. I mean, Jade is a living testimony of this, of you guys can do this. It's going to take a long time. It's a lot of sacrifice, but it is possible. So I'm so glad you guys called today and we wish you nothing but the best. You guys can do this.

Hey, you're listening to the Ramsey show. I'm Jade Warshaw. This is Rachel Cruz to my right. And we're taking calls about your life and your money just came off of a call. And, you know, honestly, we get calls all the time of people, you know, they're in a hard financial situation and, you know, we're asking questions and mining around to kind of figure out what's the core of the problem. Where'd the problem come from? How can we go about a life that we're not repeating those mistakes again? And you kind of do have to dig in and each individual kind of has to go back and do their own digging. So that they're figuring out what happened here. It's good to want to solve a problem, but you also have to go back and go, okay, but what, like, what caused me to act in that way? What did I do that caused this to kind of spin out? And we try to help you guys with that a little bit. And some of that is personal work. But one of the themes that I notice, rachel, is, and I get this, this is not me pointing a finger.

This is just, I think, a human nature thing that we have to guard against, which, know, everybody has work, in the words of Ken Coleman, that they were created to do, and everybody wants to find the work that they're created to do and the thing that gives them life and the thing that gives them energy. And I'm all for know, you want to be excited to go to work and feel like it's time well spent. But I do find that a lot of times, we enter into seasons of life that we are doing work that we don't love, and it's not the job, and it's not right. The one that we were hoping for. And you'll hear me say it time and time again, do a job until you get the job. And so in the spirit of what I think is just a consistent thread that we see throughout, and even that I face throughout times in my life, is five reasons to get any job.

To go.

Just to get any job. All right, so number one, some money is better than no money.

That's right.

Right. Some money coming in is better than no money. When Covid hit, we were in the cruise industry, and ain't nobody going on cruises and the live entertainment industry, and wasn't nobody going to a live event. So I had to get a job, and my husband had to get a job. I had to get a job that I did not like that, to be honest. I was fully, fully, fully overqualified for. But we didn't want to just burn savings. So it's like, bring in some money, we're debt free. We have hardly any expenses. Any money that we bring in is going to be great. So we did that, and it didn't feel good. And let me just say, I don't necessarily believe that work is beneath people, but in some days, it felt like it was beneath me. Let's just be honest about that. Somebody needs to say it. Some of you feel like, listen, I shouldn't be working at McDonald's, okay, I get that you feel that way, but you don't have any money, so go work at McDonald's. All right? And listen, just be happy that McDonald's is open, because back in the day in Covid, it wasn't even open.

So anyway, some money is better than no money. Rachel, the next one I have here is your spouse needs to see who you are. And if you're a husband or a wife and you're facing a very hard time in your marriage, go get a job. Because when they see you at home and you're not working and they feel like they're taking on the burden of that, you can help take some of that off. So go get a job. And then that might encourage your spouse to go get a job. That is good. Your spouse will feel like, I remember when I was a kid, my dad, he just was always working. And I was like, one thing about my dad is like, this man is going to work. And it builds a sense of security in your kids and in your family. Go get a job. And no one's going to be going, whoa. But my dad only works here. No one is saying that they're going, listen, my dad goes out and works hard every day.

That's right.

Go get a job. All right. Number three, you'll learn what you like and what you don't like.

Yes. By testing out all different things. Yeah.

Listen, I don't like food service. I don't like call center. I don't really like working with animals, even though I like animals. Yeah. I like cooking. I don't like making wedding cakes. I've done it before. It's a lot of work, I can tell you, Rachel Cruz, the things that Jade does not like doing. Okay. And now I know the situations that I do enjoy working in. So you'll learn what you like. You'll learn what you don't like. Number four, you'll be productive.

Yes.

And there's just something to be said for, all right, I'm getting up and.

Leaving and doing something. Or not leaving, but staying at home and being on your computer doing something.

Yes, something. You're getting out of your bed, even if you're putting on sweatpants and going up and putting your little headpiece on and doing your call center job. I'm almost talking about it like I know it. Okay. And then finally, it will build confidence in you, because the longer you go without a job, the more you wonder if you'll ever be able to get a job. So to just go from one job to another says, listen, I've got some confidence. Like, I can say when I go to my next interview, I can say that I'm currently working, or I can.

Say, here's the experience that I've had.

Or at least feel it on the inside.

Right.

So there you have it. Five reasons to take any job before you get the job.

And that was free, ladies and gentlemen, free games, right? From Jade Warshaw. That's amazing, Jade. I mean, seriously, because I do think that there is this feeling, and especially if you've been in a certain industry or you kind of have your line of sight of, like, this is what I do, and you get laid off, or you're in a bad situation, you quit, whatever the reason.

Yeah.

And you still have that kind of narrow focus of this. And to your point, when bills have to be paid, open those horizons and go just do something.

Yes. And one door leads to another, and you never know. You might be taking someone's burger order. And you meet the person taking the order, they have a situation that they tell you about, and it leads to the next thing. You never ever know what's behind a door. So don't count it out and think that you're above it or think that it's just keep going. Anyway, I digress. I gotta take a deep breath.

I love it.

We got to go to Brenda in Washington, DC. Sorry, Brenda, that you have to come after that, but what's going on in your world?

Hi. So me and my husband are looking to buy a house. We want to know if we're even there yet and if we are, what steps financially we should take to get there. As far as pausing our investments, continuing to invest or. Yeah, what we should do. Okay, well, what we look at, Brenda, is a series of steps that we want completed before you go and purchase your first home. So how much debt do you guys have? We have about, I think 12,000 total for our cars. And that's it. And that's it. Okay, perfect. And do you guys have any money saved? We have about 55,000 in savings. Okay, that's great. How much do you guys make a year? Combined? We make around 220 before taxes. I don't know what it is after, to be honest. Yeah. Okay, perfect. That's a great income. Okay, so if I were you, Brenda, I would pay off your cars today with the money that you guys have saved in that $55,000 account. And then the remaining, I would look to see how much your expenses are a month. Because what we say is, after you pay off all your consumer debt, look, to get a three to six months of expenses saved in a fully funded emergency fund, and you can put that money in a high yield savings or a money market.

And for you guys, you may want to put some more towards savings once you pay off the cars, or maybe that's enough for you guys. But I want you guys to look at your own budget and figure out, okay, if we need probably three months. Do you guys have kids? No, we do have a kid on the way. That's part of our, we want to buy a house, too. That's so great. Well, congratulations. When are you due? Yeah. Thank you. September. In September. Okay. That's awesome. I wouldn't push the timeline of the home with or without the baby.

Okay.

So, meaning I wouldn't feel like, oh, my gosh, I have to get in before the baby, or I wouldn't let the baby's timeline dictate your house timeline. I want your money to dictate the house timeline. So again, I want that fully funded emergency fund. And honestly, Brenda, with a baby on the way, starting to look for a home, I would feel comfortable around that five to six month mark for an emergency fund and just making sure you guys have plenty of cash set aside, and then you want to start saving up for your down payment. And I would say to put at least 5% down and make sure your payment is no more than 25% of your take home pay. So when you run those numbers, you guys can kind of look. Now, you're in the DC area, so you're in an expensive part of the country real estate wise. So your expectations and our formula, we get knocked on it sometimes it is more on the conservative side, but I don't want this house to be the thing that stresses you guys out. So it may take maybe another year or two or depending on what kind of house you guys are looking at to really kind of slow down and say, yes, let's get in a good position, have a good down payment, and making sure that it's a reasonable payment within our income to make sure to pull the trigger.

So I hope that's helpful, Brenda. And if you go to ramsaysolutions.com, we have tons of articles and free content on home purchasing, so make sure to check that out.

All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey? Trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're someone you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you@ramseysolutions.com. Slash agent. Ramsaysolutions.com slash agent.

You're listening to the Ramsey show. Hey, by the way, a couple of days ago, we did A-Q-A after the Ramsey show, all on budgeting. And it was really cool. It was live. It was George and I here in the studio. It's still on the YouTube page if you want to go and check that out. If you have any questions about our budgeting app, every dollar, which is the best budgeting app in the world, we did a live Q a where we had every dollar pulled up on the screen. George and I were just kind of little characters in the corner. So you could really see how the budgeting app works. And we answered Rachel, gosh, probably eight or ten questions in depth. And, I mean, it's questions that most of you have all the time. How do I do sinking funds? What do I do if I get paid four times a week? Do I do my budget by week or how do I do it? We answered all those questions. We talked about, gosh, paying off debt. So many just everyday questions. So if that's something you're interested in, find it on our YouTube page.

I'm sure they'll pull it up at some point or maybe even after the segment. So stay tuned for that. It's so valuable. There it is. It was really, really cool. I think, like over, gosh, the numbers on it were crazy. I'm not going to sit here and try to quote it, but my point is go watch it because it was super duper valuable and I'm sure that we'll do that again. I don't know when, but it was super valuable. So go in there. Every dollar again, such a great budgeting tool. But let's be honest, there's sometimes questions that you have and things that you want to know about it. And so we're here to answer those questions as well as questions about your life and your money, which we're going to do. The numbers triple, 8825-5225 we're here to help. And let's go to Jerry in Phoenix, Arizona. What's going on, Jerry?

How are you doing? Thanks for taking my call.

You're welcome. How can we help?

My question is, I'm 66. My wife is 71. She's been diagnosed and said dementia for three years. Getting close to having to go into a long term care facility. I've done the baby steps. I have like 5000 in emergency fund and 20,000 in savings and investing. My house is paid for. But my question is, should I sell my house to pay for her long term care which I can't afford on my income?

How much does the long term care, how much is it costing you? Like, what's the cost per month? Per year?

Cost per month for long term care is about 7000 a month. And I take home only 5000 with my retirements.

Okay.

And are you retired, Jerry?

Then yes, I'm retired. Military disability and Social Security.

Okay.

Tell us more about your home situation.

Okay. I own my home. It's worth about $700,000. I could sell the house here and move into a smaller house for like 400,000 and it would leave me about 250,000. I could use that to pay monthly on long term care, memory care that would only last for maybe two years.

Or three years, assuming it's not invested.

What's that? The house?

No, the 250,000. Are you just thinking of it as a lump sum, as it is cash?

Yeah. It would just be my equity out of the house after I sold it.

And. Tell me again. Sorry, I was kind of writing down some things. Tell me again what you have in retirement as it stands.

Okay. Military retirement, military disability, Social Security and my wife's Social Security. And it adds up to about $4,800 a month.

But what are the nest eggs? Is there a nest egg anywhere in there?

I got 20,000 in the savings account and 5000 in another savings account for my emergency fund.

Okay, let me think.

We're trying to get everything right and house paid off. Getting there. But then this happens.

Yes. I'm so sorry. And, Jerry, I'm assuming because you called and asked the specific question so she will need to be in a. Yeah.

She'S getting to a point where I'm not going to be able to take care of her at my age and I'm doing full time caretaking for her right now. But I'm just trying to look into the future and I know it's not going to last forever.

Yeah, I know. I'm so sorry. Have you looked at other options? Whether it's homes or facilities or even in home care at all?

Yeah, I have looked at it. It's a little bit cheaper, but not very much. Still going to be about 5000.

Okay.

More than I take home.

Yeah.

In this case, though, a 2000 difference is a big difference from 5000 to 7000. So it is something to consider.

Okay. Yeah, I thought about that. Because the house that I have now, well, I'd have to sell this house. That's the only thing I could think of, to be able to have money to do anything.

Yeah, I do think so.

Yeah. It's a large asset. It's paid off, which is just incredible. And I think it is. You need money for her. Right. And so you do have a stream of income, in a sense, with this. I mean, not income, but you have the ability to get some cash. If you do sell this home, what.

Would it look like? You ran one scenario where you sell this $700,000 home, you take 250, you invest it well, and you're pulling off of it for a number of years to only fund it for so long. But that's with you buying a $300,000 house. Is there any situation, it's just going to be you in the home, possibly, depending on which route you go. Is there a route where you buy something far less expensive, like a condo, as opposed to a full size house, even though it would be downsizing, but something even smaller where you've got a larger nest egg that you can invest and draw for a longer period of time?

That's always an option. I know in the Phoenix area, even condos, they're getting up there. Price wise.

Yeah. For. I'm so. I'm so mean. I probably would. Yeah, I would look to probably sell, and I think you do have to map out, because what I don't want to happen is you sell this paid off asset and there's nothing left for you. There's nothing left for you, or you end up running out and then you have to go to another option. Right. And so, yeah, I would run the numbers pretty tightly. I probably wouldn't rush into buying something new right now for you. And I would look at other options for care as well. Obviously, we want the best for our loved ones, for sure, but that industry can vary so, so much. And you guys, obviously, she doesn't have long term care insurance or anything. Right.

Okay.

That's something I never planned for. I wish I would have.

No, I know. Well, she's so young.

I'm.

So you would invest the money if you sold the house and then tried take the money out of the investments or how would that work?

Yeah, I probably would try to take away as big a chunk as possible. That's why I was saying, is there a way that you can do a situation where you're taking the majority of the sale of this and investing it? Because then what you're drawing off of it is much less, and you would only draw off what you needed to fund this, since you're living, since you already have some income, of course, coming in from all of your different retirement options, you wouldn't have to pull much. I mean, we're talking about, you said you bring in 5000. This is an additional 7000. So it'd be you coming up with a retirement option where it allows you to pull off 5000. And you're dwindling that nest egg far slower than if it was a $250,000 nest. Like going in with 600. 700,000 is a lot different than going in with 250,000. So to Rachel's point, I hate the idea of you being a homeowner and then you not being a homeowner anymore. But I would love if you worked with a professional to see what your options are, because, a, I want you to be able to take care of her, but b, you're not getting any younger either.

And so there's got to be a situation where you're covered as well. And that'll just, at the very least, having your options will really just help give you peace about, okay, this is what I know I can do. Here are my options. It's not floating around in my head and being able to choose between a couple of things on paper as opposed to just thinking, all right, this is my only choice. I can only do right.

That's right.

Right. So that makes sense. Talk to Felician investor.

Yeah, we have Smartvestor pros. You can hop on ramsaysolutions.com and check out our Smartvestor pros, and they're going to help you really see, okay, here's what we can do. And they're going to shoot you straight and tell you what your options are. And again, that's going to help give you a very clear picture of what.

Your choices are moving and how to stretch this money out as long as possible. Jerry. Right. I mean, I think that's going to be the goal, to make her comfortable, to make you feel good about the situation. But how can you do that while balancing? You have a chunk of money, and how can we get that to go as far as tough stuff?

But there are options. And the more knowledge is power. That's what I was trying to get to. At the end of the day, knowledge is power. So go out there and see how those smart vestors can help you. This is the Ramsey show, live from the headquarters of Ramsey solutions. It's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm your host, Jade Warshaw, joined by your other host for the day, Rachel Cruz. Taking your calls all afternoon long. Your life, your money, we want to hear about it. The number is triple 8825-5225 and we will get into it. So come ready because we're going to give you our thoughts and our advice on it. All right? So let's go to the phone lines where there's Vanessa in Dallas, Texas, waiting. What's going on, Vanessa?

Hi, ladies.

Thank you so much for your time today. No problem.

Absolutely.

How are you here? I'm so glad it's the two of you because I really, really want your opinion. I just got engaged two weeks ago.

Very excited. Congratulations.

Thank you so much. We don't have a date yet. We both rent separately. We're both completely out of debt. No secret credit cards, nothing like that. Nice. And I was just curious, what should we prioritize first? I'm one of those soon to be brides where I care more about getting into a home rather than a very large, expensive wedding. And I feel like I'm suffering from paralysis of the analysis and I don't really know where to go from here.

Okay, good question. Oh, my gosh. So for you guys, the wedding, is it you guys paying for it, you and your fiance?

Yes, just us. Okay.

And how much do you guys make a year?

We both make 65, respectively.

So altogether, 131 30.

We haven't combined any finances yet.

Yes. You're good. I swear we're doing this, right.

I know, I love it. Okay.

Do you guys have money saved? What would be the money saved if you were to combine savings? Not like you're going to, but if you were, what would that be?

At this point, we both have a fully funded six month emergency fund. And that is it. We paid off all of our debt, saved up. Baby step three, all of that. And then he popped the question. So we're basically starting from baby step three. B wedding fund. Yes.

So you both have a six month emergency fund separately.

Correct.

Awesome. Okay, so how much is in yours? How much is in his?

Mine is since we make the same amount of money, it's right in the neighborhood of about $20,000 each of you has. Okay. Correct.

Okay, that's great. Yes. And I would leave that alone. I would keep that as is.

Okay.

What is his take? Is he more on the house side or does he at all have any? I don't know. I feel like dudes don't really care about the wedding as much. Usually stereotypically.

Yeah, I would think so. He's kind of torn as well, because he was raised Catholic. So his family's approach to everything is like, try to get married in the church, which I know is around like $10,000. But at the end of the day, we're both sort of like, what if we just went down to the courthouse and could be done with it then? When you said that, are you saying that the church is more expensive than another venue? Because I always feel like the church route is less expensive than like, a ballroom. Right. So the church comes with a lot of prerequisites that you have to go through, like marriage counseling, which is wonderful and things like that. I think it just sort of all encapsulated is about $10,000. We would be able to do it probably for that much money. Okay.

But you guys don't want to do that necessarily.

Not necessarily. Okay. And you don't have to.

Yeah, I would lean on what you guys want. And it sounds like Vanessa, unless I'mistaken, that you both lean to. I mean, you could do a lope. You could go a step up from a lope, get the license, go have.

A great, like an engagement party.

Yeah. Have a great reception at some know, later in the future. But it sounds like your priority is because of how, I can tell how focused you guys are, is really looking towards the future and looking at like, hey, what's going to last us longer? And saving up more for a down payment on a home is, quote unquote, technically a better financial investment. I won't necessarily say emotionally and all the things, but I do think whatever.

You choose, you have to make it a memory. Like, you have to do something that makes it special. If you say, okay, we're just going to go down to the courthouse. Right now in your life, you're really focusing on the financial thing. But there might be a point later on where you see something.

I wish I had gotten addressed. I wish I had done a couple of things.

Yes. There is part of that that I think that she should include or that you should include Vanessa, even if you choose to go, like, do the least route, right, still have a beautiful dress, still do something that's going to create a memory in your mind where later on you will look back and not feel like you missed out because you still did something.

And it is interesting because these types of situations and you could probably put vacation in this realm that I'm talking about or other things. It is so personality driven. I had a cousin and they went to Washington, literally went to the top of a mountain, had a pastor do it. And they were done. That's cool because that was like their thing. And they're like, that's all we want. We don't need a bunch of people around. We're good. And then for me, I love a good party and I love dressing. I love all the things. So I would tend to lean, which I did. I enjoyed my wedding, and I loved know. But all that to say, your personality and what you guys want and what you guys value is going to drive this. And so maybe Vanessa would be a fun exercise to write down maybe three things for you in the wedding category that you would genuinely love to have. And maybe that's the dress or maybe.

That'S a really good idea.

Yeah.

What three things are important to you? What three things are important to me? And see where we meet in the middle.

And you guys may be very similar in it. And we've talked to so many people on the show, and they do it so inexpensively, have a great time. And then they ride off in the sunset and do it. And then we know some people, too, that are like, no, this is an important day for us. We really want to take the most of it, and we're going to save, put more money here, and we'll worry about the house in two to three years. I don't think there's a right or wrong, honestly. I think going into debt or making decisions like that, I think will put you guys back. But I really think that it's a lean into what you guys both want, not what everyone else around you is saying.

So true. And listen, there's thinking towards the future. There's two ways to think of this. Number one, Rachel, I think in some ways I'm like you, which I like a good party, probably not to the extent, because I love my, like, I have great memories of my wedding. It's not something I think of all the time. And so I do, like, know when people call in. I do like to call out, like, listen, it is one day, and you're not going to think about it all the time. And the flip side of that is, Sam and I are big on renewing of vows. So it's like, if you don't do.

That's good.

Everything you want to do the first go round. Listen, in ten years, renew your vows.

Yes.

It'll give you something to work towards. My husband and I did a vowel renewal at ten years, and we're going to do another one at 20 years. And each one will be nicer and better. Listen, so just understand like, you have room to go up, and.

That's a great point. Yeah, that's a great point.

I love it. I like that conversation.

Yeah. Congratulations, Vanessa. I feel like you guys will make it the right decision. I'm not worried about you guys. You're pretty the straight line when it comes to the money.

100%. Do you remember there was a Netflix show that was like, the people had the opportunity to choose between. I think it was $30,000 on a house or a wedding. Gosh, it was a great concept, and that's basically what that call was.

But do remember, your wedding is one day. Your marriage is a lifetime. So do the marriage counseling beforehand. Do it in a year. All the things. It is one day.

That's right.

So don't get too caught up in it.

This is the Ramsey show. What's up, guys? It's Jade Warshaw here. Now, I want you to take a moment and dream with me right quick. Imagine a life where you don't have to feel stressed about money anymore. Got it. So here's the deal. That life is possible for you, and your first step is to get on a budget. Budgeting helps you make a plan for your spending so you know that you're covered all month long. And the best way to budget is with our budgeting app, everydollar. You can get started for free right now@everydollar.com. Or download it from the App Store. That's everydollar.com.

All right.

You're listening to the Ramsey show. I'm Jade Warshaw. This is Rachel Cruz, host of the Rachel Cruz show on YouTube, if you happen to be on there. Also, smart money happy hour is a great one. Listen, Rachel, this kind of came up several months back. I saw an article where they were just talking about more and more people drawing from their 401 ks and from their actual retirement to cover month to month expenses. And of course, we've all seen in the news, like, the extremes where people pull from their four hundred and one k to go see Beyonce or to go see Taylor Swift.

Right.

Don't do that. That's terrible. But there's a lot of folks out there who are kind of facing that paycheck to paycheck cycle. They're feeling the stress and the strain of their money, and they don't know where else to go. And they're thinking, is it better I don't want to put this on a credit card or I don't want to take out more debt? Here's money. That's my money. Maybe I should take out from this money and I can make my situation better. Matter of fact, the guy called the show the other day. He had just had his taxes done and the fee for the taxes was $300, but his return was only $100. And he was like, oh, crap. I thought I was going to be able to take some of the money from my return. And he's thinking like, maybe I'll just go to my four. Matter of fact, the tax guy, not one of our trusted pros, but the tax guy that he was working with, told him, hey, why don't you go to your take out a loan? So people are just tossing this around as an option, like it's just nothing here.

And I need people to understand that if you withdraw from your retirement, you're going to have to pay a 10% penalty on that money that you take out. And by the way, if you happen to draw from your 401, if you lose your job, that money becomes due almost immediately and you've got a year to pay it back before you start facing more fees and penalties. So this is more serious than what people really are drawing into it. I'll get to that part in a minute. But what I want people to. I read an article that said the average withdrawal, Rachel, is about $5,000. Like, people aren't looking to get $30,000.

It's not tens of thousands. No, on average it's five.

It's $5,000. And do you know what I figured out, Rachel? That if you took a less than average car payment, that's basically the $5,000. Like if you went a year without your car payment, you'd have the $5,000 for sure.

Or you did a side hustle for $1,500 a month, you could get it.

So I kind of want to have some empathy for the fact that people feel like they're faced against a wall, right. That there's no other thing. But what I want you to see is, listen, start looking around because there's other options and avenues for you to get out of this.

Well, and in that case, we see this all the time. If you're in a crisis or you feel like you have no options, it feels like this is the only choice. This is the only money I have. So even if it's 3000, $5,000, I'm going to do that. And it's such a short sighted view versus pausing, letting the chaos settle right and actually formulating a plan. And when you actually start looking at other options. So it is that quick kind of grab of like, oh, my gosh, I got to just have it. It's tough.

And some people are like, listen, I'm having a hardship, and there are hardship withdrawals. Hardship means that it allows you to take money out of your. Meet an immediate and heavy financial need. That's what the IRS says. Immediate and heavy financial. And so many of us could look at that and go, listen, I needed those Beyonce tickets. Whereas others will look at it and go, okay, yeah, I've been without a job for x amount of months. Or what we're saying is this could include something like a natural disaster, right. Repairs from a natural disaster, covering funeral expenses for a loved one, or paying rent to avoid being evicted. Those are really serious situations. You're only allowed to take out the exact amount that you need for those expenses. And remember, you'd still have to pay taxes on it. So there's really no way around some of the financial strings that are attached to this, even if it was a hardship withdrawal. And again, we're seeing that these are on the rise. Unfortunately, more and more people are lying about their situation, Rachel.

To qualify to get it, which is fraud.

That's fraud.

Yeah, that's.

Yep.

We don't want to do that.

So what we just want you to take away from this is, a, don't lie about your situation, and don't commit fraud. But b, understand that there's always options. There's always a way that is better than probably what your scared and anxiety filled, sleepless brain is coming up with in the moment, right?

Yes, that's right.

Because when we're panicked, we're like, okay, what can I do? What can I do? And your brain just fixates on one thing that usually feels like the easiest answer. That feels like the answer with the least amount of friction. But a lot of times, it's not the best answer. Like, it might be what we talked about. You picking up a side hustle in the midst of an already very busy schedule. You selling a car and having to coordinate with your spouse. A one car situation. When you've had two cars your entire marriage. No one is sitting here and saying, that wouldn't be difficult or very hard to pull off or require tons of coordination. But it's bigger and better than borrowing from your future. Because what happens is when we pull from our retirement, it does draw a line in the sand of, okay, this is something that I have the option to do. And once you start that, it's kind of like you've said, this is available to me. And then the next time a hard situation comes, that's an option that, you know, you did in the past. And so it really is about building the right behavior over time, Rachel.

And for me, totally. Because it fixes, like you said, the issue in the moment. But, man, it takes away from so much growth that could be happening. So do make the sacrifice on the short term. That's why we tell people not to take money out of your retirement. Four hundred and one K or Roth or iras to pay off debt. Because this is something that you can do on your own without that money. Because, again, you lose so much growth when you do that.

So if you want to know more about this, we do have a really cool article, by the way. We have tons of articles on ramsesolutions.com. But we've got one here that's called why you shouldn't withdraw from your retirement to pay off debt. Very. There's a nice ring to it.

There you go.

But it's at ramsesolutions.com and the link is there in the show notes. So take a look at that. It's just. Listen, knowledge is power the more, you know, with the little rainbow at the end. So with that, let's go to the phone lines. We've got Kaden in Boise, Idaho. What's going on, Kaden?

Hey there. How's your guys'day going?

Great. How about you?

Terrific. So I got myself into a little bit of a pickle. I'm 22 years old. I made 80,000 last year. I'm planning on making 100,000 this year.

Nice.

And I am roughly $280,000 in debt. That includes a house, a car, a motorcycle and other miscellaneous like credit cards and stuff.

How much is the house of that debt?

House is 225.

Okay. And go ahead and just tell me the rest of them as well.

The car?

Car is 4000. Motorcycle is twelve. And then credit card is another four. And then I have a 4000 home improvement loan for an electrical situation that had happened.

And that's four as well. Listen, I think you do have some debt here that I think that you'll be able to clean up relatively quickly. I think because you're grouping it in with the house, it feels even more overwhelming. And that might be because. Is your home payment too high for your income? What's your home payment?

Home payment is. I have a first and a second mortgage. I went through FHA. So the down payment assistance.

Okay.

First mortgage payment is 1750. Second is 100.

Okay, so you're paying 1850. And what's your take home pay.

Roughly. I work hourly plus commission, so it varies. But anywhere from four to seven.

So I think on most months, you're fine with this mortgage? If I were you. I mean, the way we teach is the mortgage is completely separate from the rest of the debt. And I think if for right now, while you're in baby step two, which is paying off all of your consumer debt except your mortgage, I think that'll break it down into more manageable, bite sized pieces.

Do you have any money saved, Kaden?

I do not.

Okay. Yeah.

So if I were you, I would probably sell the motorcycle. I would look to say, okay, then. That takes a good chunk off. Then we got 12,000 left between the other. The 4000 car, 4000 credit card, and 4000 on the electrical issue. And I would just work to pay that down, Kaden. I mean, I would work extra. I would do what you can. I mean, you're 22. If you get all this stuff cleaned up, it's amazing what can happen when you don't have all this debt. And I would cut up the credit cards and I would really start living a life to say, okay, I'm someone that doesn't use debt. You pay it off, you save up an emergency fund. And Kaden at 25, is going to be pretty dang in a great situation.

Hey, if you want to make real progress with your money and get that extra push to keep going, then you need to be at our brand new event, the total money makeover weekend on May 10 and 11th. Join me, the rest of the personalities and a community of people like you at Ramsay headquarters for new talks, new focus, and new motivation to stay gazelle intense on your money goals. Early bird tickets start at just $99, so don't wait. Get yours@ramsaysolutions.com. Weekend.

You are listening to the Ramsay show. And thank you for listening to the Ramsay show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Join me. Join. Next to me is Rachel Cruz. And we're taking your calls for the rest of the hour, so you can give us a call. The number is triple 8825-5225 I mentioned it before, and I'll mention it again. We are doing a really cool live event coming up May 10 and 11th here on our campus here in Nashville, Tennessee. It's the total money makeover weekend. So it's over the course of a couple of days. You come up here on our campus, and we are going to walk through. Really what it's about is it's based on the book, the total money makeover. So that's the baby steps. And so basically everything you hear us talking about on the radio, if you want that deep dive, if you want to be around like minded people, you want to just get into it, get that deeper level, be motivated. This is the event for you. All the personalities are going to be there. If you've been to a live event before, this is not going to be like the one you've been to.

This is completely different. So if you want to get those early bird tickets, they're $99, and they're only going to be here for a limited time, so you can get those@ramsaysolutions.com events, and we'll see you there. Without further ado, all right, let's go to Rachel, who's in Spokane, Washington, the city I was born in. What's going on, Rachel?

It's a pretty all right city, I'll say that.

What can we do?

I would love some advice. It's sort of financial related, kind of not my finances, but I am 32 years old, and I'm an independent parent, which means I chose to become a parent by myself after I was 25, 26, 27, couldn't find anyone. We never aligned with finances or financial ideology or having children. So three years ago, I decided to have a child on my own. I love my daughter. She is the best. Oh, my goodness. Good for you. I feel like I really made some good decisions. And she's a little older now. She's four now. And a lot of friends and family are always asking me, like, you should start dating soon. Why aren't you going on dates? Why aren't you not doing this? And a really big reason. So I'm 32. I don't have any debt. I don't have any credit card debt. I paid off all my loans, credit card debt, car, all that when I was 26. By the time I was 26, and a huge reason is kind of a feeling of the obvious, not just, like, letting anyone around my daughter, not just, like, going to. For sure, there's that reason.

But the reason I'm calling is that my friend set me up on a date with one of her work friends or something, her husband's work friend. And we were just chatting. He was like, well, how do you do it? How do you single parent? It must be so hard. And I was like, oh, well, I don't live with debt. I like my job. It's not really that hard. It's hard if you are, like, if I'm very financially stable. And he was like, oh, I'm like, $450,000 in debt and all these things, and he started just kind of naming his, this is my first date with this person.

Wow.

And I was like, oh, I know a lot about you, but we say not to do on a first date.

I know. Well, at least now you know.

Yeah. And I was like, maybe this is my fault, because I was just casually just trying to keep it light hearted. Like, oh, I don't live with that. But to me, it's been so long since I've lived with that that I was like, maybe people just love talking about this. I don't know. Yeah. Then I was talking to my friend. She's like, oh, how'd it go? I don't really think this is for me. And when I was explaining it's not just about introducing someone to my daughter's life, it's also about introducing that. Whatever.

Sure.

Yeah. I'm not going to date without the intention of marriage.

Sure.

And I don't know how to explain. And I don't even know if it's wrong to not give somebody a chance knowing that we're on totally different pages.

You get to set your non negotiable. Listen, you get to set your non negotiables. You get to have that list of. Here are the things that I really, at this point in my life, want to align on, and you get to say what that is, and you also get to reevaluate that with time. Like, listen, you could come up with a list of five things, and if you find out that after ten years, no one is meeting up to your expectations, you get to decide, well, maybe I am being a little too. Is there anything that I can change, or is there anything that I'm being a little too judgmental on and having? Listen, you guys talked about this really early in the relationship. I know. Had you have dated for four months and fallen in love, and then him sprung on the $500,000 of debt, or however much it was, listen, you might have married him anyway, like I did.

Rachel, I would go into it, and I wouldn't put this thing out there that if they do have debt, it's an absolute no. And I'm not saying you're saying that, but what's important is the value system, right? So if they came to you and was like, oh, my gosh, I still have $100,000 of student loan debt, and I hate it. I feel this burden. I'm trying to pay it off. That's somebody that you're like, okay, I can get on the same team we are running in the same direction. And I think the same would be true for a spiritual aspect.

How you want to raise kids.

In laws and family, these are big topics in life. And when you marry somebody, those topics collide, and you're not always going to be the same person. You're not going to marry the clone of you. Right. So you're going to probably always have a different. Take a different spin on these things, but the overall direction is what you're looking for. So, yeah, I wouldn't find someone really attractive. If he's like, I got $450,000 in debt, and I'm about to go buy another property and keep leveraging myself, I'm like, great for you, but that's just not attractive to me. I would say the same thing. Lines like that in a spiritual sense or with kids, there's things that you're just like, we just won't be aligned in life. So I don't think you're being too picky. I would say if you had called and said, yeah, just because he has debt, I won't date him.

Yeah, that's.

No, I wouldn't say that. I would not go down that route.

Especially if they've been like, and I want to get out of it. Right.

So it's all about where they're going and what the values are going forward. And I think everyone has kind of that one subject in life that they're really passionate about with the other person. Right. And so naturally, yours might be money, Rachel, not from a shallow perspective, but something that you really cherish your convictions, and you really want to partner in this. I think that's big.

The thing to consider, especially with the debt aspect of this, is, let's just say you've gone on four or five dates and it comes up at Applebee's, and you start talking about it. Remember, there's still time. Like, you're not getting married tomorrow. So if this guy has $60,000 of debt, there's time for him to pay that off before you get married. Does that make sense? If you're really feeling some type of way of like, man, I really sacrificed to pay off my debt. I don't know if I have the stomach to go through another 60,000. Just think about the fact that there's still a timeline. Like, you're not getting married tomorrow, and you'll be able to see if this person really does show and prove what their values are. Because are they actively trying to get out of debt? Has eight months passed and they've paid off nothing. You know what I'm saying? You're going to see that come out in the wash. So I wouldn't get too, too hung up on it within the first few days, or even the first few months, necessarily, if you're on the fence. Does that make sense?

That makes sense. Yeah. I think that something was just, like a bit of a flag. He was like, oh, I have all this money, but the government's going to cancel student debt, so that's fine.

Oh, no red flag.

No, for sure. No, I feel like that for me. So maybe I should have added that. And I was like, okay, there's one thing to know your. At least some people don't even know how much money they're in debt, but I felt really bad. I was like. I felt really shallow. And I know that it's one thing to ask for someone to not be in debt, but this is great advice. Thank you. I just walked away. I was like, I have no idea how I feel about this. Yeah, I think, give yourself some grace, too, because $450,000, a lot of money. Even if he's trying to get out, especially if it doesn't include a mortgage, that's a breathtaking number. So I think that's fair that you're like, oh, gosh, that is a lot of debt. And so, no, I don't think you're being too judgmental. I wouldn't count someone out just because they have debt. It's all about the value system and where they're going, moving forward. And could you see yourself with them in the future?

Right.

If they're walking that, but that's tough. And, Rachel, to do what you've done, even with a child, was she 30 years old? That is a beautiful thing. And you've made choices in life that are very mature and you've taken on a lot of responsibility in life. And so I do think your husband has a high bar, and I don't think that's a bad thing.

Hey, in the chat. I would love when people get a chance to put their thoughts on this in the chat. Like what? Your non negotiable is dating. And we can talk about it at some point because, listen, after paying off the debt that we paid off, if, God forbid, something happened to Sam Warshaw and I had to get out there in these streets, if somebody came at me, I don't know if I could do it again. Even, like, 30k would be like, no. So everybody's got their limit.

That's fair.

Jade, I'd be interested to know what you guys think about this. Throw it in the chats, and maybe one day we'll talk about it. This is the Ramsay show. You are listening to the Ramsay show. Our scripture and quote of the day. My favorite. Whoever picked this knows me. Galatians five one. It's for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by the same yoke of slavery. One version says, don't be entangled again by the same yoke of bondage. Ooh. Love it. In other words, when you get out of debt, don't go back in. Just putting that out there. Okay. And then Janice Joplin says, you are what you settle for.

Oh, booyah. There you go.

Love it. That's good stuff. All right, let's go straight to the phone lines. The number is triple 825-5225 if you ever want to give us a call, we're going to go to Eric, who's in Austin, Texas. What's going on, Eric?

Hey, y'all. It's so great to speak to you guys. How are you all today? Happy Friday.

Oh, thank you. Happy Friday to you.

Oh, my goodness, you guys. This is great. Let me take a deep breath here. Kind of nervous. I am calling because I started out kind of in a position like you were Jada and I had $215,000 in debt, and that was. I know it was a lot. It was between student loans, two cars, a credit card, some medical bills, and whatnot. But I'm down to about $77,000 now. Yeah, I've been really building that snowball, but I've come to the final mountain here. That final amount of debt that I've come up to and everything else prior to has only been, like, 10,000 or $20,000. And now I'm facing a $78,000 mountain. So my first question is, what piece of advice do you have for somebody that has been really pushing and really going through this snowball method for the past couple of years? And it's just like, you're tired.

How many years has it been?

I started this in 2020. So I've been doing this for. We're coming up on four years now. It's been a lot.

Listen, that is a lot, and four years is a lot. So congratulations. Let me be the first one to just kind of, like, clap you up and say, very good. The 78,000. What is that big chunk? What is it?

That's all student loans. That's all over for my student loans. Yes.

Ma'am, I know the feeling. I know the feeling so well. The 78,000, let me ask you this. Is it one? Like, I remember ours was one payment, like, it was a chunk of 78,000, but if you looked closely, it was actually a bunch of little loans grouped into that one payment is yours like that?

Mine is just one giant loan at this point. I think I worked with my parents at one point to just, what did we do? We consolidated from Sally Mae into another organization, and it's just one giant sum.

At this point with one interest rate and one account number and one everything, right?

Correct? Yes, ma'am.

Okay.

So I'm sorry about that. That is tough. It's hard to see that. The good news is it's your last one. Probably another set of good news is, how much are you able to chunk away at it every single month?

Well, that kind of leads me to my second part of the question is, I'm currently in Austin, and as you know, the tech industry isn't necessarily very reputable for staying consistent whenever it comes to jobs. So I've actually put myself into storm mode because I believe that my organization will be doing layoffs here in the next couple of months. So that's my struggle, is not only do I have this mountain in front of me, but I also have kind of put everything aside temporarily before I can start paying my student loans again.

Which I think is smart, kind of my predicament. It's probably smart for you to do that. I want to go back to your first question, which is, listen, I've been in this four years. What do I do to stay motivated right now? You kind of have a little bit of a. I don't want to call it a breather, because you're still stacking up as much money as you can. But what I think is really important, and just for anybody listening, we say all the time on here, the average person is out of debt in two years or less. And it's important to remember that there's people to the right of that average number. And my guess is, if you continue paying off this debt, you might have another year or two into this, so that you're going to be six years in, which I relate to, and I do think that for you and anyone listening, you have to. Have to, have to include milestones of your own, ways that you can celebrate, ways that you can. The way I describe it is like a humpback whale, right? A humpback whale is swimming along. He's swimming.

He's going after it. He's doing what he. And every once in a while, he jumps out and he just has that moment of like, oh, I can breathe. And he goes back in. And I think that that's the way you have to navigate this because we say on here all the time, beans and rice. Rice and beans. Gazelle. Intense. You're not going inside of a restaurant unless you're working inside. And that's so, so true, especially when you're in that average. But once you cross over into the four and five year mark, there is a part of this that mentally, for your health, like, you need to go into a restaurant. I'm being clear. I am not talking to the folks in average. I am talking to my six figure freedom. Folks who have this six figure debt. In this case, 215,000. You're in this thing for an above average time, four, five, six years. You need to become a humpback whale and you need to jump out. And maybe you did save up cash to replace a beater. Okay. Like, go ahead and replace your beater. If it's falling apart and you've got 8000 in cash, do it.

I remember it's a marathon.

Yeah, you're in a marathon. And let me just for the people listening, some of the things that Sam and I did in our debt payoff journey, which was seven and a half years, that was not paying off debt. A. We cash flowed another vehicle because it was time. Okay. We did take a couple of very small trips like weekenders to like, okay, we're good. And again, this is at that four, five and six year mark. Right. You just have to do something that you've said. When we get to this point, we're doing that. When we pay off that next Sally may or Nell net or Navian or whatever you have. When I get to 80,000, I'm doing this. And when I get to 100,000, I'm doing this. And so you have to set those milestones in there and set them ahead of time so that you don't feel the need to get sloppy. All right. So you've got 78,000 to go. I feel like in that 78,000, there's probably one medium to decent milestone within that. And you've got probably two years to go after a four year journey. Sounds like you've been hitting it pretty hard.

How much do you make a year, Eric?

I make, after taxes, probably about 4800 a month to about five k a month.

Okay. Yeah, go ahead.

Oh, go ahead. I'm sorry.

No, you go. I want to hear what you have to say?

Sure. My goal is to pay it off by the time I'm 30. Right now, I'm in 28 and a half. And so I really want to get after it. And I've been very gazelle intense about this and I want to pay it off and I want to get rid of it by the time I'm 30. But it's just 77,000 staring at that mountain to me. And you're right. I need to set those milestones. I guess I need to be a humpback whale in the situation.

Yeah. And Eric, I like what Jade said. I haven't heard you say this before, Jay, but I'm like, that is so true. Be intentional with those milestone moments, too, because I think there is a point that you're just so exhausted that you're like, oh, and there can be a sloppiness in the milestone celebration and you end up spending more than you think. Right?

Yeah.

And so it's like you're being so proactive. It's part of the plan as you look out that you're like, I'm planning for this at this date. This is how much I'm going to spend here, to enjoy this, to get that breath of fresh air, to keep on moving. But when you get to the point of complete exhaustion sometimes, then that's when you're like, oh, my gosh, you could make some poor choices out of pure exhaustion.

That's right.

You haven't planned for it. As intentional as you can be, which kind of takes the fun out of it sometimes, but it gives you something.

To look forward to.

Yes.

And it's not a trip to Europe because I heard somebody thinking, I can finally take that trip. It's not a trip to Europe. It is not.

Last year.

What'd you say?

I said, not me taking a trip to Europe last.

Going to. I'm not going to go off because I don't know the details. But my point is, be a humpback whale. And since you did take that trip to Europe, this next milestone is not going to be quite as extravagant. It's different for different people. The things that you value. I know. For me, it was including certain things that I had cut off for such a long time. I was like, listen, I'm going to start getting my nails done again. It was certain self care things that I was like, I'm not doing this anymore. And I've worked really hard. And so you have to be reasonable. I can't decide what that's going to be for you on this phone call, but you have to be reasonable and figure out what that is for us. We had one vehicle and the windows were held up by shoestrings. So it was like, listen, we've got the money saved. It's time to upgrade the car. And I remember calling in the Dave Ramsey show and saying to Dave, can I do this? And I think that's what happens. And this shows me that he's in the right spot.

When you're just so in it that you can't see the forest for the trees anymore, you need somebody to tell you that you can take a break. That's a good indicator that it's time to take a break.

So good.

Really proud of you, Jade.

I'm glad you were here today.

Thank you.

I'm glad you were here, too. Such good stuff.

We have fun together again. Jade Warshaw here. Rachel Cruz, you are listening to the Ramsey show. Thanks for hanging out with us. And make sure you see us on down the line on the next Ramsey show. Sa.

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