Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win, folks, in your life. We do that by helping you win with your money, in your work, and in your relationships. 888-825-5225 is the number to jump in. We'd love to help you today. 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my dear friend, the incomparable, the graceful, Rachel Cruz, ladies and gentlemen.

I love all the adjectives. There it is. Every time you host, Ken, I appreciate I like a good adjuntive.

I also like helping people out. You ready to go? Let's do this. All right. We're going to take your money questions. Rachel is going to be your money expert today. We'll take any work-related bigger shovel questions. I'll help out on that. She always weighs in on anything I say, so it's going to be fun, I promise. Let's go to Kisa. That's a very interesting name. Love the names. Kisa from Little Rock, Arkansas. How can we help?

Hey, thanks for taking my call. My question My name is Dr. Harker. I work as a traveling nurse right now. In traveling, I make probably around 120,000 a year, if you average it up, working full-time, not taking any too much time off between contracts. I would like to... I'm single right now. I'd really like to settle down and have a family, have children. That's really where my heart is. I don't have anyone in my life right now that I would get married to, have children with. That's what I want to do. I'm also paying off debt right now. I owe, I think, a total I have less than 38,000 between student loans and a truck payment as well. I'm set to pay all that off by August because I'm putting in 55 A hundred a month into that. Good for you. Into that. That's great. I don't spend too much. I'm pretty reasonable with my finances. But my thought is, okay, should I... Because I do want to settle down. I do want to have a family. But should I leave travel nursing and get a core staff position after I pay off this debt and then start working on the 15% into investing and saving for a house and stuff like that, or should I keep traveling?

How intense is the traveling? How much does it affect you?

I like traveling. I enjoy traveling. I make friends really easily. I guess I just, I don't know, I'm getting to that point in my life where I don't have all that.

You just want some more stability. Yeah, I get that. Yeah, in a sense.

Well, the reason I asked that, Kisa, is because I'm curious how much you would make less because you're making 120 as a travel nurse, how much less would you make if you played out the scenario you asked us about, and now you take a staff position? What would that pay look like?

It depends on where you live. I'm from Arkansas. I would think probably if I was to be core staff in a hospital in Arkansas, I'd probably make, I'm guessing, 60,000. Okay.

I'm curious to know what Rachel thinks, but I'll jump in really fast and say, Just from a professional and financial standpoint, if the travel nurse is not affecting your ability to date, I hear you want to settle down. It makes total sense. But I also didn't hear a person who feels like Their soul is sucked out of their body because of the traveling. You're like, I like the travel. I just want to settle down. I want to have my house. I want to have my backyard. I get all that. But until we got that relationship thing going, me personally, I'd keep doing the travel nurse. Hey, if I'm traveling, that means I get to meet a whole lot of people, and hopefully that life partner, and I would be focusing on my relationships and putting myself out there. This is not a dating advice show, but I would keep stacking the cash, Rachel. Then when we find that significant other, then we settle down because I just think that not only can you knock this debt out really fast, I'd love to see that fully funded emergency fund, Rachel, and then she gets going. What are your thoughts on that?

How old are you? Can I ask?

29.

29, okay. Yeah, I mean, I think if you're still enjoying the travel nursing, I mean, I would keep doing what you're enjoying because after the debt's paid off, like Ken said, and yes, if you have that emergency fund, I feel like that freeves up even more options for you. So I'd probably let those be my two goals that are driving me to stay in the high paying job to get through that. And then you're going to look up and be in your early 30s, and you may say, Gosh, I'm just tired of this, right? I mean, I'm in my mid-30s, and we have friends that he changed jobs because he was traveling a ton. He was like, I just want to... Yeah, I don't... I get that. I'm just tired of it, right? I do think there gets to a point in your life that you may not enjoy it as much anymore. Then you're going to have the freedom financially to be able to say, Yeah, I'll live on 60 grand and settle down, regardless of having somebody in your life or not, I would drive my financial goals to keep me motivated to stay in that high-paying job.

And then once that's reached, then you're able to say, Gosh, I'm good cutting my income in half because I can, and I want to just settle down more and be in one place. So that's probably what I would do. Does that sound around what you're thinking, or do you want to just quit tomorrow?

No, I want to pay off my debt first, for sure. I'm not going to quit right now. But I think it sounds really reasonable. I I guess it… Obviously, I believe in God. I believe that it's diviny appointed, partnership and stuff like that. But as a traveler, you don't necessarily build long-term- Hey, Kesa, I hear in your voice that you want to pay this debt off, and then you want to slow down.

That's what I hear. You want to pull back from the traveling. You want to establish some roots. That's I hear. Is that how you felt before you called us?

Yes. Roots. I want my roots. Yes. I don't have any roots.

I don't have a problem with that. We're not trying to talk you out of it.

I think it's great. I think I would push to get through Baby Step three, which you just say three. I would say three months of expenses and then settle down. But stick with this maybe for another year or map out, okay, when can I get this paid off and all of it. But have an end date, so at least you're looking towards something because of what you're really wanting. Yes. I'm not one to give dating advice. I haven't dated in 16, 17 years.

I haven't had been on a date since 27 years.

But, Henry Cloud, though, I will never forget. We were at a smart conference, and Dr. Henry Cloud was saying, Even though, yes, we believe in a God that orchestrates and knows our story and all of that, it is still our free will to get out there. You got to go fishing. Yeah, you got to put yourself out there. I remember Henry saying that. He was like, he talks to people and they're like, Well, I just go to my small group.

Do women ask Do you ask men out these days? Kisa, what's your... I've literally been married 25 years. I don't have a clue.

I don't think so. I'm just asking.

Kisa, what's the play? Do you ask dudes out or you just got to be... How are you going to get a man? What's the strategy?

She's going to be her, and she's going to be awesome. Hold on. And some man's going to be like...

Kisa, do you ask guys out? Do women do this?

I'm more traditional. Good for you. So am I.

I know.

I know. I know. That's what I like.

I get things, though.

People ask me out. It goes in a hard way.

Well, I'm going to say this. If you're in Little Rock, Arkansas, I don't know Keisa's last name, but it's pretty unique. And she's got a great salary, great career. She's going to be debt-free soon. She's smart. Look up Keisa, all the single guys in Little Rock. Give her a call. This could be great. This is the Rave'sy Show. When families were asked how long it would be before they faced financial hardship, if a spouse died, Only one-third said they'd be in trouble immediately.

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They're committed to protecting families with only the products I recommend, plus their team keeps the entire process simple and affordable. Go to zander. Com for quick online pricing or call 800-356-4282. Your family has to be the top priority. All right, America, you can win in your money, you can win in your work, and you can win in your relationships, and The Ramsey Show is committed to helping you do that. So excited that you're with us. We're honored. My name is Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz is my co-host and dear friend. Joining me in studio today. The phone number is 888-825. That's 888-825-5225. If you've been listening or watching just for a small amount of time, it's nerve-wracking a call. We totally get it. We're going to take a really good care of you. We're for you, and we'd love for you to jump in today. Let's Let's get some hope based on some practical steps that you can take to move forward. The Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by Neighborly, your hub for home services. Winter is the perfect time to freshen up your home's interior with a new coat of paint.

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Today's question comes from Hillary in Wyoming. We have had a shift in our income, and our mortgage is now about half of our take-home pay. We bring home around 5,500 dollars a month, and our mortgage is $2,300. We currently are a month behind on the house and a truck payment, which is 683 dollars a month. We have another car note and a tractor payment. Our $100,000 RV is in the process of being repossessed. Between the mortgage utilities, groceries, insurance, credit cards, and student loans, we are at a deficit of $400 a month. When do you just throw in the towel and sell your home? Wow. Gosh, Hillary, you all have a lot of stuff happening. I would say, just to answer your original question, the main question, when do you sell your home? Unless you see your income going up double and getting back to where it was, meaning if one of you all has lost your job, but you're in the process of finding one, and you think you'll find one here in the next 30 days, 60 days. But if something has shifted that you know, Okay, getting our income back to where it was is probably not realistic, then I would sell.

And again, you don't want to be in a rush with something, but then also you guys need to have a level of urgency about you with these other things. I mean, the truck, the other car, even the RV.

And the tractor.

The tractor. If you can stop this repossession, if you can somehow sell it. I mean, it's in the process of it, so maybe it's too late at this point. But anything you can do to not have things on your record, like having on your credit reports, because it's going to ding you in life. And we're not about going and taking out debt. But in general, if someone pulls that for a job or anything, they're going to be able to see these elements of your life. And so if you're able to avoid all of this, and especially a foreclosure, and that's what I don't want for you. And so I would make the decision to move, again, if you don't see your income doubling anytime soon. And get rid of some of this stuff, Hillary. I'm like, You can't afford your truck. You can't afford the tractor. You can't afford this stuff. And so selling it, it's going to get you to a more in full place when you don't have all these payments.

Yeah, it's tough stuff. Before I'd sell the house, I'm with Rachel, I would try to... We have a deficit of 400 a month right now. If we can flip that, just flip that. My goal would be, okay, now we have a margin of 400, then what do we have to do to make it 800? We have to make it to make 1,200 all while trying to get that income back up. But one of the things we need to mention here is we're in a country right now that has an unbelievable employment market. We have 3.7% unemployment. Here's what that means. There are part-time jobs, gig, economy-type jobs that are available. Even if you had a major loss of a job, which sucks, and that takes time to fix sometimes. But Going out and making 20, 25 an hour, brings a lot of relief short term. That's right. Just something to think about.

Getting one or two of those. You can work. Yes, that's right. It may not be the job, but it's a job. You're making an income.

The phone number is 888-818. 5, 2, 2, 5. Let's go to Seattle, Washington. Olivia is there. How can we help?

Hi. I'm just stuck in a pickle. I'm on step two, and our monthly income is 4,300 $800 a month. I'm not sure whether or not I should be selling our truck so we can get rid of the $800 a month payment, or I should cut up my credit cards because my husband is now starting training We don't have the money in our savings to pay for this training. But after the training, he would be getting a significant pay increase.

Walk us through some of these numbers. Give Rachel the numbers. Let's talk about income first. What he's at now and what he's projected to be at.

Okay. So starting pay right now or his ending pay in this position is $30 an hour, and that's the max he can go. The starting pay on this new position is 32 to 34.

And what's the training going to cost?

And the training, so far, it's already cost $1,500. And I had it on the EveryDollars budget app. So every dollar was accounted for. And so I had it. I was thankful that I didn't cut up my credit card, but this morning I was so distraught that I should have cut up my credit card and just tried to figure it out or something. Yeah. You're working? I am not working. I'm a scared home mom, but he works mostly overtime. I don't know if you've heard of the North slope on Alaska. So that 32 an hour is a significant increase compared to 30.

Yeah.

Okay. And how old are your kids?

I have one child, and she's two.

She's two. Okay. And how much debt you guys have We have a total or just a car? A total.

69.

Okay. And what is that in? 59,000. And what's that in?

17,000 on a credit card, 3,000 on another credit card, 5,000 student loan, and then 41,000 on the car.

How much? Forty-one?

Yeah, which is just outrageous.

Oh, my gosh.

What's that car worth?

34. That's where I'm really struggling. It's just dropping, like, drastically.

Yeah. There's so many people underwater on cars right now. But honestly, I mean, Olivia, yeah, that car is, you guys probably make- $800 a month. Well, you make around, probably, 55,000 a year before taxes. I mean, let's get- 89. 89.

Yeah.

Before taxes.

89, yeah.

Do you have time, and I have very much honest day at home moms, do you have any time during the week where you could pick up some Does that anytime work, even if you're doing it from home?

I've been looking. I'm just having a hard time coming up with anything. I don't have anyone to watch her, and I don't want to put her in a daycare, and I've been trying to find something, but I haven't been able to I don't mind anything.

Okay. Well, keep looking. Be encouraged. You know what your boundaries are there, but any of that will help, and I'm glad you're looking.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. The $41,000 car, I mean...

Yeah, I I just don't know if I should sell it.

That's what I thought you should call it. Yeah, it's just right on that line. And there's a part of me, Olivia, that what sucks is you will have to take out a, probably a $7,000 loan to make up the difference. But that feels so much better seeing $7,000 versus $41,000. And it's a car. And you guys, I mean, you've been in this habit, and you said it earlier. So I'm going to just repeat back what you said. You know, we just kept the credit card around. Something came up, and it's going be good for us. The training and all of it. I understand how you can rationally get there. But until you guys make a mindset shift of this is now how we handle money. We don't use debt, regardless of what it's going to bring to us in the future. Until you have a strong line like that, Olivia, you guys are going to continue to creep back in to these habits. You really are. And so there's a part of me for selling the car. It's like shocking the monkey. It's like this, oh, my gosh. It shocks the system of what you guys have been living in, and it forces you to say, Okay, we are doing...

We are literally acting different right now. We are selling a car that we should never have bought in the first place. We're cutting up the credit cards, and we're just saying no. And you have to have that hard line because this whole wishy-washy way with debt, it's going to find its way back in. And you guys will look up, and the habits haven't really changed. Having that hard line, I think, is what I really want for you guys. So yeah, I would sell the car, Olivia. I would start working to pay off credit card next the student loan, then the $7,000 loan that you'll take out for the remaining of the car. And then you guys go and attack this big credit card debt of $17,000 and get rid of them. Again, when we have the ability to go back in, it's the easiest way in the moment. It's, Okay, we'll just swipe it. We'll just go back in. That's what people find. And when you don't have that option anymore, it forces you to look at other options, which there are other options out there. It may more patience, but there's other options.

Thanks for the call, Olivia. You got this. Focus. This is the Ramsey Show. Guys, it's no secret that the real estate market is weird right now. Go with a mortgage company you can trust to have your back. Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted because they're stable, reliable, and focused on you. At a time when a lot of companies are being bought out or going out of business, count on Churchill Mortgage to stick around. They've been doing things the right way for over 30 years, and they'll keep doing them the right way for 30 more. Get started at churchillmortgage. Com. This is a paid advertisement.

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Brentwood, Tennessee, 37027. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me. The phone number is 888-825-5225-888-825-5225. 2:25. Taking your questions, let's go to Zela, who is on the line in Indianapolis, Indiana. Zela, how can we help?

Hi. Hi, there, Ken. My question is, my husband and I did not live in the same country. He's in Canada, I'm here in the US, and we're on board with combining finances with married couples and taking down debts first, not even credit card and all that. But we each have our own debts that we bring when we got married. We're on baby step two, which is paying off the debt in the snowball method. My question is, do we tackle our debt In combination, do we list it from small to big, like his debt and my debt and Canadian dollars and US dollars combined? Do I send him money transfer? Does he send me money transfer to pay that? Or do we tackle our debt separately? We're not combining our checking account yet because we haven't found a bank that would accept both currencies yet.

All right, a couple of questions before we dive into that part. How long you've been married?

Six months now.

The plan was to live separately the entire time?

No, we are currently working on getting him here to the US. We actually have our application now, and it's in process in the immigration, USCIS. It just takes a while, about a year or two.

Even though you're married, even though he married an American woman, it's still taking about a year.

I'm not an American citizen yet. I'm just a green card holder over here. Okay.

All right. That's why it was- That would take a while. Okay, got you. Wow, Rachel. I don't like that they have not combined accounts, although you're saying this is a legal thing.

Well, there's a logistical thing, I think, when you're working- That's what I'm asking. Yeah, two separate countries. I mean, yeah, you guys may not find a great solution to actually share a physical checking account together until he comes here.

What does he make and what do you make financially?

For him, I converted the fee with dollars. His salary is 60K. He has dollars. Mine is 80K. He has about also 64K of total loans, debt, and I have about 19K in debt.

Okay.

I'm just curious, how long were you guys? How long did you all date for?

We only officially did for two months before we got married, but we've known each other since we were kindergarten.

Oh, okay. You guys have had history. You knew going into this that you would be in this situation from a long distance standpoint.

You've known each other since kindergarten. Are you Canadian?

No, we're both Filipinos. We just migrated to different countries at some point in our life, and we met here in the US.

What country were you in when you met as kindergarten?

The Philippines. We both grew up there, and then our families migrated to different countries.

He goes to Canada and you go to America?

The US. Yes. Yeah.

Okay. The way you ask this question, I'm just curious, are you sending money to him?

Well, right now, we are currently in doubt on whether to pay his loan first or to pay mine first. I was sending him money to pay off the smallest. How much? Well, I just sent him 100 this month. It's not constant. Just to pay off the smallest debt that he has, Yeah, but how much money have you sent him, ballpark, since you've been married? Not much. It's $200 maybe in total. Okay. All right. Yeah, $200 in total, I guess.

Okay. That was such an ignorant question. I probably should know this, but your marriage license, when you guys got married, is it- Our marriage license is here in the US. Okay. So once he comes here, okay. Trying to put all the pieces together.

Is he on a- Yeah. Yeah. Was he on a visa to be able to come over here and get married? The travel visa? No.

He's a Canadian citizen now, so Canadian citizens can come over to the US for six months at a time. He just did it. We see each other one a month because that's just how the border allows them to come. Okay. Just one week at a time. Okay, got it.

Well, this is complex, Rachel. This is a little complex.

Yeah. Well, I mean, there's a reality that, yeah, if you're in two separate countries with two separate currencies, yeah, you may not be able to share a physical checking account. I mean, that's obviously the goal once you guys get into a place that you're actually living in the same country. That's what we're going to work towards. But since you are married, seeing this as a holistic picture, though, that for you guys combined, to look at your income as one, I would take all of your debts and I would combine them and say, Okay, let's list out the smallest debt to the largest. And when you get married, it is. You are one in every aspect of this. And so I would be paying off the smallest debt first, regardless of if it's his debt or your debt. My hesitation when I'm saying all this, For all of you listening, though, you don't do this unless you are legally married. You do not do this if you are engaged, if you are dating. But for a married couple, this is what you do. Combining, but yeah, In a perfect world, you guys would be able to see each other's accounts, and you're very much on the same page with your budget and what he's going to be spending, what you're going to be spending.

It's just a really weird situation being in two He's living in two separate countries for what could be two years, and you're married. I'm like, Man, that's terrible.

Zelle, I'm sorry to keep asking. You said that you guys are on board. You said that we're committed to this.

Yes, 100%, both of us.

You're seeing progress. You're seeing his budget based on his 60,000. You're sending him the money for what? What was the reason for sending him money again? Just to help pay down the smallest debt? Yes.

Just to help pay down his smallest debt. When it's time for my small debt, he also sends me money. You got evidence- I don't know if that's the wisest.

Great. You guys are on the same page, and we are attacking this thing as though we have the same account and we're in the same country. It's just separate. If you're doing that, then that's fine. But he's got to be fully on board, 100% on board. Yes, he is.

100%.

Yeah. Wow. Very interesting. That's great. Keep going. I know.

Good luck.

Max communication. That's hard.

Yeah. Wow. That's hard. Dating long distance is one thing. Being married long distance.

Well, you think about how many couples struggle with finances when they live in the same house. Yeah.

I think, yeah, just a lot of communication between you guys. The reason we would say you don't combine accounts, because there are reasons. There's asterisk to this. If you are in a dangerous situation, if there's abuse, if there's an addiction that's not being addressed, if there's reasons to to protect yourself, then that's what you need to do. We've even said on the show, there are some spouses that will not be on board at all on any level of the same page as money, and they go out and rack up all this debt on their own, and there gets to a point that you even have to... There's a level to protect yourself. So always remember that. That's why I even said, If you're not married, you don't send people money. Because this is just... They dated for two months, live Separate countries. You just want to make sure that everything is okay.

I don't want to play armchair quarterback, but Zela, if I could have talked to you six months ago, I think I would have said, Look, you're in America on a green card. He's a Canadian citizen, let's think about where we're living a little bit further. Let's play this out here and let's do what's best for our marriage.

Yeah, it just causes some stress.

Yeah, just a lot of separation here. Again, this is fascinating to me. This is otherwise a very nice couple. These are good people. A year and a half for him to be able to get what paperwork he needs in light of the fact that we have people crossing our borders just freely. I just don't understand how the government can't figure out how to help people who are trying to do it the right way. What paperwork does this dude have to fill out to be with his wife?

It's the government, man.

It irritates me. I'm not an anti-government rant right now. I just go, I I hate that.

Yeah, totally. They've done everything the right way. That's right.

Can we fast forward this, please? I hear you. I know. You're not a bureaucrat in DC or in Canada.

Somebody listening. Come on. Zela, Zela's husband out.

Listen, Zela, in all seriousness, make sure you guys are really dialed in to an online group, get in a class. You guys need that extra accountability just given the complexities of your relationship. Don't move. More of The Ramsey Show coming right up.

This edict identifies Jesus of Nazareth as a heretic and a blasphemer.

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See season 4 of The Chosen in Theaters on February first, starting with episodes 1, 2, and 3.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, America. Thrilled to have you with us. We're here to help you win in your life, specifically with your money, in your work, and in your relationships. All three of those areas are really connected. If you're losing in one of them, you might be losing in all three. We want to help you win. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me this hour. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. All right, so those I suppose of you interested in real estate, thinking about what your real estate strategy is going to be, Dave Ramsey has got a brand new quick read out called the... What is it? Oh, Real Estate, the Ramsey Way. This is fresh off the press. I haven't even seen this. Look at Dave. Million dollar smile.

Just happy to talk about real estate.

He's so happy to talk about real estate. We call these quick reads. These are very accessible. This is taking Dave's decades of experience with real estate, putting it all in one short read to help you with buying, selling, and investing. It's only 70 pages. Home ownership is still possible. You can turn that home into your biggest asset. It can be done, but you got to do it the right way. You can get your copy now at ramseysolutions. Com/store. That's ramseysolutions. Com/store. All right, Kylie's up next in Dallas, Texas. Kylie, how can we help?

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. I was calling in because my husband and I are at a pretty good stage in our life where we have bought our second property and we are looking to build. There were some circumstances that happened to cause us to move a little bit faster on the build than we would have liked. Our first home is completely paid off. We just have a mortgage on the second property that we bought, and the mortgage on that is about 310, and we're looking to build a house with about $300,000 on that property. We have a couple of different options, and one of those options was to take out a heat off to cover about $200,000 on our first property to cover the cost of the build because we have about a $115 saved up to put towards it. I was just looking for some direction. We're really not sure which way to turn.

What's the end goal? What's the end goal? What are you trying to pull off here?

This is essentially my dream property, the Our second house that we bought. We're needing to build because right now my father, he is 100% disabled, and it was unexpected, so we're needing to have care for him. We don't want to put him in a home. We want to keep him with us. That's That's the reason for doing the build now, because he does not fit in our current home. It is too small on it. We've made adjustments as needed, but that- Yeah, it's very admirable, you guys.

Yeah, for sure. So the second property, is there a house on it There's a mobile home on it, which presents some struggles to get a construction loan.

A lot of people don't like that. The Heelock, they're willing to just give us without any of the red tape.

Okay. Why are you keeping the first home then?

We're currently living there in the first home. We intend to live there through the build. Then once that build is complete, we could either sell it or keep it as a rental. I prefer to keep it. It's in a great location, and it could rent and give us some really great money How much could you get for it if you guys sold it today? Probably in the range of $300,000.

Oh, just enough for what you need for the new house. Yeah. Okay, Kylie, here's what I would do. I would not go take out a heat lock. I would not continue to go into debt when you have an asset like a house. Now, if you guys had everything paid off and you had money saved to be able to cash flow the build of the new house and you wanted to keep this as a rental, that would be okay. But you're sitting here and you're trying to piecemeal all this together where you could make it pretty simple. It's not going to be the plan you want, but I would sell. I would go rent for a while while we build. So it may be a 12, 18 month rental situation. Making sure that it's enough room for your dad and everything. So you guys will have those parameters. Cash flow the house as you build, and then the 310,000 that's for the land, then you take that as the mortgage and say, Okay, that's then what we're going to continue to pay off. I would not go get out a second. I would not go get a heat lock or go around that way.

But that's personally what I would do because I would not continue to go deeper in debt if I don't have to. You're in a situation that, yeah, you have a great asset of a home. I would use it to further the cash flow that you guys will be able to pay this property down quick. Then you're completely debt-free. You have no mortgage or anything right after that property isThat's the dream. Is paid off. That's the dream. That's what we want for you. We want you to get to that point fast, and this is the fastest best way to do that. Real estate is so hard because I feel like, too, the idea of having a rental, passive income, this whole dream.

It sounds so exciting.

It's great. We love investing real estate, the real estate quick guy. We are not anti-real estate people. We are pro-real estate people, but doing it in the right time, in the right stage of your life. For you guys, and here's the other thing, because, Kyly, we built a home in 2018, moved in in 2019. I'm telling you, when you have cash that you are working with, you stay in budget. Suddenly, the upgrade of the tile, Oh, this, this, and this, do we have the money for it? It really gives you this hard and fast rule because it can be so easy to say, Okay, we'll just get a little bit more, and the bank will be willing to, We'll get maybe $40,000 more to do some… You continue to uptick. But this, really, it's an accountability thing when you're working with it. What a gift to be able to do that. I mean, that's really how I would look at this.

Kyle, I just add very quickly. You said that this second property that you need for your father, I'm glad you can do it. Rachel is 100% right. You need to sell the current home and do what she does. Here's why. You would still owe on that house. Now all of a sudden, this dream property, the whole thing could become a nightmare if you get somebody in rent in your house. Believe me, when something goes When you're on with the roof or the toilets or whatever, they're calling you. All of a sudden, I'm a landlord.

You have $600,000 in this.

You're $600,000 in debt. This is a no-brainer. Sell, rent. Rachel is 100% right. Focus on this dream, this dream property that also is going to be a blessing for your dad in his time of need. Don't muck this up. It just doesn't need to get that complicated. Because here's the other thing, Rachel, that kills me. People go, Oh, he can rent it. I always love to do the The size of, Okay, what's the mortgage on the rental property? Do they tell me? What are you going to clear each month? It could be 300, $400. We're going to take on all this risk and all this pain in the butt to be a landlord for what amounts to 4,800 $800 a year?

Right.

That's assuming you have no expenses.

Yes, that's right. This idea that I'm going to get rich. But hers is paid off. Her specific situation. Her house was? I think so.

I didn't realize it. Well, everything else I said is true. Yes. But I would use the money. The point is, we don't want her to go into debt on the new property. That's right. Exactly.

Why be a landlord?

Carry debt, be a landlord is the point.

Don't do that. That's right. 100%. It's crazy.

People get sucked into that, and it's just there's so much that can go wrong.

So hard. Yeah.

That's nuts. All right, let's go to Chandler in Salt Lake City. Chandler, we only got about a minute and a half, two minutes. What's your question?

Okay, so getting right to the point, I'm a PhD student, and I'm studying the skills to be a high-level quantitative researcher, which includes statistics, research methods, programming, this thing, right? My particular subfield is political science and criminal justice. I also work a full-time job in an unrelated field. While it's really hard and I have to maximize my time, I'm more than capable of following through with this. My question is, would it be a better time investment to drop a full-time job and put that towards my quantitative skillset? In the short term, that would put me in a much less fulfilling and more difficult financial position, but I can see how it would pay off in the long run.

When you say more difficult, are we talking barely scraping by or just a little uncomfortable?

Yeah, it would be barely scraping by on a student stipend. Do you have debt? No.

You have no debt. Do you have cash? You got an emergency fund?

Yeah, full six months.

What's the timeline? You're the quantitative guy. Give it to me fast. If you do this move that we're talking about, how long am I in this uncomfortable, barely making it by before it pays off and I'm making more dough?

The payoff would be about 4-5 years.

I wouldn't do it. Not for that long. It's too risky, man. One major life thing happens and you're whacked, and it's just, What do I do? I'm trying to recover. I'd stay in the day job, finish the PhD. That's hard, too, but it has way less risk. Let's step our way into this new future. Stay in the day job. Do not take that risk. It's not worth it. You're trying to exchange time for a ton of risk, and I wouldn't do that. Good hour, Rachel Cruz. Thanks to Austin, our fearless leader, and the guys in the booth. This is the Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, This is the Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win. Win in your money, win in your work, win in your relationships. The phone number is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. I'm Ramsey personality, Ken Coleman, joined by Ramsey personality, Rachel Cruz, and we are here together for you this hour. We'd love to help you out. Let's get it started. Oh, one of my favorite cities of the South. We're heading to Savannah. Savannah. Otherwise known as Savannah, but I like to say it that way.

You always love a good city accent.

When you go, I just love it. Savannah is a great city. Ebony is there. Ebony, how can we help?

Yes. Thank you for taking my call. How are you doing?

We're doing great. How are you?

Awesome. My question is, I am finally starting to make money, and I am trying to figure out how can I finally become financial free. I don't have anything to my name whatsoever.

What money you're making now that you're finally making money? What's that number?

It'll be 32,000 a year.

What are you doing?

Marketing company, storage clerk for U-Hall.

Okay, good. Do you see a path forward with them? I don't want to get locked in on that, but do you see opportunity for a promotion there?

I do see growth with the company. It's actually a good company.

Great. Well, congratulations.

That's great. How old are you?

Thirty-six.

Okay. All right. Good for you. Good for you. Thank you. Okay. Ramsey, we always talk people through having a really intentional guided plan, because that's probably one of the best things that you can do with your money is what you're calling in for, but it is to have direction, right? And so part of that is saving, part of that is getting out of debts, investing, homeownership, all of that is at play. So right now, do you have debt right now?

I do. Okay. I purchased a vehicle. I had to give it back. Something happened to the car, and then I have school debt as well because I dropped out of school.

Okay. How much- I gave my kids. How much do you owe on the car?

Eighteen thousand.

Eighteen thousand, okay. You said you gave it back, though. You don't have it?

I don't have the car no more.

What happened?

A company did an oil change in the mess that my engine, and unfortunately, I could not afford to get the repairs. They were pretty high, so I had to pick the vehicle up, and they came to pick it up.

And they're just- Who's they?

I don't want to say the company that did it, but it was a company Okay.

Like a mechanic?

Yes. When I was supposed to be legit, it was a new store, and I went there and they messed it up.

I'm trying to just figure out really quickly, do you not have any… What are we doing here? You should be compensated for that. They ruined your car.

I didn't know until later on down the road that I could have done something. It was too late. I found that at the last minute.

Okay, but I don't want you to have given that car. I want that car back in because you own that car, and that is an asset. How much will it take to fix it?

I cannot get that car no more. It was car lot has it, and that car lot is no longer available in my city.

Okay.

All right. So it's gone.

It's gone. It was last year.

I did that. Do you have a car right now?

I do not. I'm actually in the process of looking for one that I wanted to do it cash.

How are you getting to work?

The bus.

Okay, great.

Yeah. It's awesome. Okay. That's good news. I know. I don't want to keep harping on this car, but it is $18,000 of debt with an asset that at least if you get and you can't fix it, you could at least sell it for less and try to get something out of it. I don't really know how that happened. We won't stay on that because I want to continue to help you. But I would go back and retrace those steps, Ebony, because again, that was in your name. Unless it was repossessed and you couldn't pay the payment or something like that happen. But overall, if you can find out a way to get that car back, I want that for you just so you could even just sell it for cheap and make some money on it. Okay. And then you have your student loans. And how much are those?

Thirteen thousand now.

Okay, perfect. And any money saved? No money saved. No money saved. Okay, great. Okay, so what I would do is I would figure out, okay, how can I get $1,000 quickly? That's going to be your first starting point is to be able to get that emergency fund. I would probably honestly do that before you save for a car. I want some cash in the bank that's just cushioned to the side. Again, this may look like working a part-time job at night for a little bit, finding if you can sell something, I mean, like anything that you can do to get that $1,000. I would do that as quickly as possible. That would be the first step I would do. Then I would probably say I would start saving for a car. I would have a goal to get a great used car and to be able to pay cash for it. It's not going to be a pretty car. It's not going to be a great car.

I'm going to look up some used cars in Savannah.

Yes, there you go, Kenny. It's my favorite thing. But it's going to be the best thing, yes, is to get that point of transportation for yourself. Then the next goal would be to start working to pay this debt down and pay off the smallest amount, which will be the student loans first. Maybe in the meantime with that, because this will take you some time. This will take some patience, and it's not going to happen overnight. In the meantime, again, I would circle back with the whole car thing, because If there's any way you can get this $18,000 down, it's only going to be for your benefits. So I would look into that. And then beyond that, Ebony, you want to start saving up for a fully-funded emergency fund after you're out of debt, and then you can start looking at saving for a down payment and investing. But all that may be a few years down the line, which is totally okay because you're starting somewhere. So that's the overall plan. It's called the Baby Steps. And I'm going to have Christian pick up and give you Financial Peace University, which is our It's a money course.

It's seven lessons. So you can watch all the videos, really get a basic knowledge of all of this and every dollar premium, because the next thing I really want you to do today is sign up for every dollar premium and start budgeting. So you're going to take this income that you're making and actually have a plan for it. And within that, you're going to be able to see, Okay, here's how much I have for groceries. Here's what I have for that. You can go down the list and really see, here are my expenses. And that's going to help you save that $1,000 as well, because you're going to be able to say, I'm going to save X amount a month towards this thousand dollars, and you're going to really just be on that plan. And so I'm excited for you. It's going to create new habits and a new way of looking at money for you. But I think that you're at that point. I could even hear it in your voice when you called in, you were like, I'm ready to do something. And I think it's awesome.

Emotionally drained.

Yes. You're emotionally drained. Is that what you said?

Yeah. I've been crying because I feel like I've done wrong because I'm 30 I have nothing. I feel really, really... I'm not going to cry right now. I just feel really bad. I should be further off as far as financially. And it's just... It's really stressful being- Yeah.

Let me just be your friend, though, for a second. And that's a lot of shame. I should have. I wish I had, right? We all have regrets, and we all... No one is perfect with money. But I want you to be able to say, Okay, from this point forward, I can do something. And you're only 36, right? People call us at 56. 6:00. You can still be a millionaire. What you got?

Well, I was going to say, if you save about 4,500 to 5,000 up, you can get a decent car. But I would also say, if the bus is safe and it's convenient, I'd keep stacking cash. One little encouragement I want to add on to what Rachel said, Ebony, you're going to get through this debt quicker than you realize. If you start just basic small investing, you're going to be a millionaire by the time you're 65. I hope you hear that because it's true. We're going to guide you.

You can do it. Yeah, hold on the line. Christian will pick up and give you that stuff. This is the Ramsey Show.

This episode is sponsored by Better Help. Hey, this is Dr. John Deloney, and some people think relationships have to be easy to be right. Sometimes that can be true, but more often, great relationships get that way because both people put in the work to make them incredible. Therapy can be a place to work through the challenges you face in all of your relationships, whether that's with friends, people at work, significant other, or even how to get along with yourself. And if you're thinking of starting therapy, try Betterhelp. Therapy isn't just for people who've experienced trauma. It's great for building skills so you can become the best version of yourself. Betterhelp is completely online so it's flexible enough to fit your schedule. Just fill out a short questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. Find the path forward to making all of your relationships incredible. Visit betterhelp. Com/delight. Com. Deloney today to get 10% off your first month. That's a betterhelp, h-e-l-p. Com/delonie. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me. We're here for you, 8888 825-5225 is the number.

You got a money question, you got a relationship question. We'll take them all because they're all interconnected, 888-825-5-225. And is now with in Salt Lake City, Utah. Anne, how can we help?

Hi, Ken. Hi, Rachel. Wanted to get your thoughts on a potential big decision that me and my husband have that might set us up. But to give you a little bit of backstory, we're both 35. We're at Baby Step 6, so we don't have any debt. We're really just putting a little bit extra towards the mortgage at this point. We have some money set aside for the six-month savings, so working our way through. We've been listening to you for about a year, so it's been good. That's awesome. I'll say a lot of... Yeah, a lot of, I think, our success is, at least my success anyway. My mom's pretty smart financially, so I take a lot of her advice. On this potential decision, though, she's not very much on board, so I wanted to get maybe a third opinion.

Okay, we'll give you our thoughts.

That's right. I promise you that. We don't know how much it'll help, but go for it. All right, give us the scenario.

Of course, of course, it turns. Right now, we bought and took advantage about three years ago of the really low interest rates. We bought our home that we have now. Obviously, we've made some equity on it now with prices going up. We bought in a pretty decent area. We have probably, I think, probably about 350 that we could get out of equity if we were to sell. That's where we're at right now. We owe quite a bit because obviously we're only a years into the mortgage. We did go with a third year, which, of course, I read right now, but that's in the past. We're at a standpoint to try and decide to sell, take quite a bit of amount out of the equity, buy something for less in a more rural area, which is something both me and my husband are interested in, or stick with the mortgage at a really, really low interest rate. We got a hold of a 2% interest and just stay here and ride it out or pay it off early. Obviously, listening to a lot of the conversations and tips that you guys have, I lean towards sell, take the equity, take some of our savings, and buy something where we'd be mortgage-free.

My mom says to stick and don't lose the 2% interest because we'll never see that again. Curious yourself.

Okay, I'm not going to talk about the money side. I'll let Rachel weigh in on that. But it sounds to me like you guys want to live in a rural area. That's the life you want to lead.

Yeah.

Well, that's the no-brainer.

It is for sure. We've got a hobby for them going now, and so maybe delve a little more into that.

Can you get what you- Can you get what you- from home right now? That's a good question. Can you get what you want for that 350, 400?

For 350, probably, we have about 150,000 saved saved. That's in a high-yield savings. It's just been our next year.

That's above your emergency fund?

That's the other question is, if we don't do something with that, maybe what should we do with those funds?

Okay. Yeah. Is that above your emergency fund, the 150?

That includes it. Includes it, okay. I would say we could easily take probably 100.

A hundred, okay. So for $450,000, it's amazing, could you get what you want in a rural area and where you guys want to live? Have looked at houses out there? Yes.

Yeah, I have. And there's quite a bit of availability that- It's a no-brainer. And- And- And do what you want to do.

Do it. And financially speaking, 2% is worse than zero %.

I know. So poor mom. We're blowing mom's advice out of the water.

Yeah. And listen, Anne, and this is where we're the weird people in the space when it comes to this stuff. But when you own your home, It's not even a financial move at that point. It is a true emotional, spiritual. Something happens when you don't have a bank in your life. There's not a mortgage company in your life. Ford Motor Company is not your... You don't have other people in your life. It is just you. Because how much do you guys make a year?

I bring in about 75, and my husband brings in 85-ish, depending on the bonus.

That's amazing.

You're living where you want, debt-free.

I Making $160,000 a year.

God bless your mom.

If you said, Yeah, what we really want, we probably need to take out a $50,000, $100,000 mortgage, I'd say, Okay.

I'd say, Do that, too. Because you want to live there.

At that point, yes, you would be able to afford that, too. But if you can just straight up do this in cash, I'm like, That's the dream, man. That's what you work towards is to have nothing. And you guys make an incredible income all day. All day. I'm living out. My And so would be running for the hills if I said we could live in a rural area.

He would be. He'd be like, Yee-haw.

You just see him in the distance. He threw me back because he's always been the one to pinch pennies and don't take out credit card loans and go to school debt-free and stuff. So it threw me off a little hearing this from her.

That's so funny. Well, and it's good that your mom has such a positive voice in your life, but also, and you're a 35-year-old woman. So mom's not going to agree with everything all the time. Can you imagine? It doesn't matter. She doesn't get a vote, right? You and your husband, I'm assuming, are on the same page. You both want to make this move, and you guys are excited about it.

Absolutely.

Anne, do this. But just imagine- I'm so excited for you. Imagine 20 years from now, you're talking to Rachel, you see her somewhere, you're talking to a friend and you go, Yeah, we had this opportunity 20 years ago to buy this great property cash, live where we wanted to live. But my mom talked us in to keeping the 2% on this house we have. Could you imagine how much you would resent her? Does that sound silly to you?

Yeah, it does. That's where it's like this internal back and forth. No. It's good to get a third party.

What do you want to do? Forget what me and Rachel think you should do. What do you and your husband want to do?

Oh, for sure. I think that's been our dream. We've been together 15 years and worked our way through this and- You all done an incredible job, Anne. You've really stated a little bit of a leverage.

In one year of listening to this and doing this plan, you've made it. You made it through all through seven baby steps.

Cue the Disney music. It's time for dreams come true. Pixie dust. Let's go.

It's great, Anne. Just have your mom out for a great dinner at the place.

I got to ask you a question I think really hits our broader audience, the influence of family. Let's also throw friends in this bucket. You've been coaching a lot of people for a long time. What are your thoughts on this as to why we have a hard time allowing our heart to overcome the influence of what family members say? The heart's totally in. But then it's like, why do you think that is?

I think that there's a level of acceptance we all want. I think for our parents, from a parent to a child relationship, I think a child regardless of age, you still are like, Are you good? Isn't that true? So true.

So you think it's approval?

I think there's a level of approval there. I also think in Anne's case, her mom sounded very wise with everything else. She probably genuinely thinks and believes, because it probably is very true, that she's a really wise person with money. So I am going to take what she says really seriously. But the problem is, is when all of that starts affecting our day-to-day decisions and our life Yeah. Decisions. Parents, at that point, yes, I understand you're still their parent, but you're not their parent anymore. You have an adult in your life, and you don't get a vote either.

It's interesting, isn't it?

I do think parents, there is something about the relationship. I feel like even with my friends, and I can say this even about my own parents, as better of a job as your kids get older, and especially when they start having families of their own, and you become more peer-like, I think you enjoy each other's company more versus like, I still need to teach you, and I'm still being in this role. The adult kid always ends up feeling like, Oh, my gosh. I remember mom and dad, they've done a great job with that. I remember even coming to dad about a money My question. Winston and I had been married, probably 18 months. It was about a mutual fund or something. And he would not give me the answer. He's like, What are you and Vincent want to do? What are you all going to do? I was like, I have Dave Ramsey sitting in front of me. Should I just call the show and make up a name? He'd be like, This is Sarah from Dallas. You should have. What are you You're up from Dallas. But yeah, he pushed us a lot of like, You got to make your own decisions.

I think inquiring minds want to know, if you and Winston were to move out into the wherever, rural area, what animal would you not allow on the property? Do you have a hard and fast? Or is there an animal you'd like to have?

I feel like a rooster would be tough, right? Yeah. Waking you up.

Three in the morning. Yeah.

What about you? I'd have chickens, though. I'd like some goats. I'd like some goats.

I like the little noise.

No, what would you not do, though?

Cows. They stink. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. So excited to have you with us, America. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me. The phone number is 828-825-5225. Rachel and I were just talking. We're going to get to the phone. It's just a matter of moments, but we were just talking during the break. We love getting out amongst the people. I am a self-fashioned man of the people, and I think you are a woman of the people, whether or not you would ever refer yourself as that. But I love being out.

We love doing events. We love hanging with you guys.

We love doing events. We're very excited. We're not going anywhere, but we are doing an event. You might be coming here. What are we talking about? Brandon A new event called Total Money Makeover Weekend. It's May 10 and 11. It's going to be right here on our campus, just south of Nashville and just God's Paradise of Franklin, Tennessee. It's just fantastic. It's a one-weekend event. You're going to crash course on everything we teach about money, every side, from the big shovel to getting out of debt, saving, investing, the whole nine yards. No matter what baby step you're on, this is going to light a fire under you. There'll also be a lot of Q&A. When we're speaking, we're also They're going to be taking questions live in the crowd. We love that. Early Bird tickets started at just $99, but this is going to be for a limited time. If you want to get the best deal on tickets, this is it. The Ramsey Event Center, by the way, brand spank-a-new, only holds 2,400 people, so it's limited. So get your tickets now at ramsey solutions. Com/events. That's ramsey solutions. Com/events. It's going to be fun.

Yeah, it's going to be a great weekend, so come hang out with us. Let's do it.

All right, Henry is up in Las Vegas. Henry, what's going on?

Hi. So my wife and me have about $125 in household income, $305 in a mortgage, $35 in student loans, no other debt. So we're Too late to go out and enjoy food. But that's really our only, I guess you could say vice. I got my student loans. I'm comfortable with just paying the 420 every month. She would like us to more aggressively pay off our debt. And I agree, but at the same time I don't because I don't want to not live as well. I want to enjoy life. We have about I think she had 20 something in her Roth. I have about 30, 35 in my retirement. We're putting 10 %. So we're doing the baby steps and we're going along the way. We have about 100 in cash, 100K in cash. So that's about three years worth of it. God forbid, we lose everything. We can still pay all our bills to include the mortgage, utilities, and food. So I think we're doing good, but she wants to be more aggressive versus I don't. We're at an impasse of how to… It's not really about having one person be right or wrong, but it's about maybe finding a balance because it's all about balance in a relationship.

We're not arguing anything like that, but just trying to- That's okay if you are.

Couples argue. We're okay with that.

Rachel and I like to argue.

Ken and I argue. Okay, Henry, I missed how much the student loan payment is. I'm sorry, How much debt total student loans are? Thirty-five. Thirty-five thousand. Okay. Is that all the debt you guys have?

And then the mortgage is 305, and the house is worth about 365.

Good for you guys. Henry, I'd pay off the student loans today.

Okay.

You have $100,000 in the bank. Pay it off today, and you have a fully-funded emergency fund. Now, you guys are... And then bump up your investing 5 % to 15 % of your household income, and you guys are freaking going to do incredible.

What are you paying? What's your student loan payment every month?

420.

You just get a $420 a month raise on top of everything.

Go out to eat with that.

Yeah. That'll buy a nice steak. Maybe a Tomahawk.

Yeah.

I do like that. Let's throw another way, Rachel.

Because here, the $100,000, though, I want to address it because I so appreciate it. I so appreciate the $100,000. But the reason why is that it's a three-year emergency fund. He said, In case something happens- Yeah, I was going to say, what? Henry, for three years, you'd probably be moved and living off the lands. I mean, if it gets to that point in life that you can't find a job in three years. I'm just saying that it's an unnecessary amount of emergency funds for that reason. Use it to your advantage. You guys worked and saved so hard for that. I mean, it's incredible. Use it to benefit you guys in the present. This takes away all the questions on your aggression on paying off debt because it's paid off. It's paid off today. Henry, let me off and then get a nice bottle of champagne tonight and celebrate. You're debt free. I love that.

And the Tom Hawk's Day. That's amazing. But, Henry, let me throw something out you here. What if you invested that $420 a month? You're a real safety guy and you're a numbers guy. Is this true?

Yeah, Yeah, she's the more aggressive one. Right, but hold on a second.

Yeah, but what if you did what Rachel said? I said spend it. Well, no, you said pay off the loan, but he's still going to have my math, 65,000? Yeah. Okay. So Henry, what if you had $65,000 in the bank, and you had no debt other than your home, and you were able to invest $420 a month starting tomorrow?

Extra.

Yeah, extra. How exciting is that?

Yeah. By the time we retire, we'll definitely be millionaires.

Dude, Henry, that's not even up for vote. So your cautionary This cautionary narrative is actually holding you back, and I'm trying to flip your brain on this. You're going, Oh, my gosh, I don't want to give up 35,000. And I'm going, You're not giving up 35,000. You are creating total freedom. You're freeing up $420 a month to invest, do whatever you want. I mean, this is a no-brainer for you, and you're still safe. Trust me, 65,000 in your emergency fund, Henry, is plenty for you. You know how I know this? Because if you were to get laid off tomorrow, you would be getting a job as fast as you possibly could. You are not a guy who likes risk. Correct. What are you going to do, Henry? It's your life.

Did we convince you?

You've inched closer. I don't I don't want to lie to people and say yes, 100%, but- What are you so afraid of? I'm afraid of us getting into a bad situation, and my wife craves stability.

What would be the bad situation? This is really fun. Not making fun of me. What's the bad situation? Describe it.

We both flew. Well, she already lost her job. It's been about nine months, so that's creating a stress for her. God forbid, I lose my job. I'm the stable one right now. If we lose that, that 65 can go real quick.

Okay, but wait a second. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. What has kept her from getting a job for nine months?

In the industry of recruiting, it's a little bit difficult right now.

Okay. Has she been doing any work?

Oh, yes. She has part-time work, so she has income.

Okay, here's my point. This is what I want to say. If that were to happen to you right now, you would go get a full-time job, or you would get a part-time job, or another part-time job, and I would say she needs to get another part-time job right now. She actually doesn't have to because you're in such great financial shape and you can live off your income. But my point is, I'm trying to play this out for you, Henry, that let's say both of you lose your job. You could still not touch that emergency fund if you went and got busy. You may have to use some of it, but you're not going to blow through 65,000.

Yeah. That'd be you guys just sitting at home doing nothing.

Literally not even trying to work.

Yeah.

That's not going It's going to happen.

I'm trying to walk you up to the threshold of hell here, and you look over and go, What has to happen?

I love you because I feel like we're usually the ones telling people to slow down. We're the conservative ones. I don't want to pay that debt off. You guys are crazy. We're so aggressive. We're the aggressive ones. That never happens.

It really never does. But listen, here's what's great about Henry. He's never going to make a dumb financial move.

No.

It's now just building up that muscle.

Listen, here's my thing, too. The way you guys live and your ability to save, what you guys want to do, pay it off. If you really keep losing sleep at night over that 35,000, then just build it back up.

Well, okay, I love this. Great advice. Let's take the 4, what was it, 420? Let's round it down to 4 to make easy math. Okay, over the course of 12 months, that's $4,800. But just taking that loan payment and putting it into savings. You could do way more with the 420, obviously, but you're fine. I would be so happy to get rid of that student loan. It'd be a party. I like the champagne idea. Yeah, thanks. Maybe the Tomahawk is a little too much red meat. I don't know, but something.

Go celebrate. You are debt-free, Henry.

Well done. You got to cut the check first, Henry. Get yourself a Pepsi. It'll help. This is the Ramsey Show. What's up, guys? It's Jade Warshaw here. Now, I want you to take a moment and dream with me right quick. Imagine a life where you don't have to feel stressed about money anymore. Got it? So here's the deal. That life is possible for you, and your first step is to get on a budget. Budgeting helps you make a plan for your spending so you know that you're covered all month long. And the best way to budget is with our budgeting app, EveryDollar. You can get started for free right now at everydollar. Com or download it from the App Store. That's everydollar. Com. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. So excited to have you with us, America. 888-825-5225 is the number. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me, and we're here for you. Ryan is up in Raleigh, North Carolina. Ryan, how can we help?

Hey, Ken. Hey, Rachel. How are you? It's good to talk to you. Great. Good to talk to you.

What's up?

Thanks. My wife and I have been followers of yours for years, and I have a quick question about retirement that I don't know if I've ever heard you answer? Okay. Between the two of us, we make about 280 base and then up above 300 with bonuses. And that's pretty recent that our income is not that high. So for the past couple of years, we've had to transfer what we were putting into a Roth IRA, just into a regular IRA, because our income was too high for the limits. And I was wondering if we should start foregoing the IRA altogether and just maxing out our Roth 401(k)s.

Well, you can do a backdoor Roth IRA. Do you know that?

Right. Yes, but we're not at Baby Step 7 yet.

No, but instead of- I didn't want to take the extra money- Yeah, instead of a- that we would be putting towards the taxes instead of putting it towards the mortgage. Wait, say that again.

I didn't want to take the extra money because if we do the backdoor Roth, We have to pay the taxes that are due on it- Sure. Right away, correct? Instead of doing- Well, if you converted- Yeah, I got the backdoor baby step seven. Yeah, baby step five, I guess, six, the mortgage. That's what I'm wondering if it'll be better to just… Because we're very happy with our 401k options.

What percentage does that- What percentage does that- as well as our IRAs. Okay. What percentage does it get to? If you guys both max out your Roth 401ks, what percentage How much of your income would that be? Will you hit that 15%?

Well, I think it's 22,5, so it's about $45,000, which is almost exactly 15% for us.

Yeah. Okay.

Then how much do you have saved total in your 401(k)s?

Our total retirement is probably around 500.

Yeah, but I'm asking specifically, I'm going somewhere with this, how much do you have of that 500 between the two of you is in your 401(k), the Roth 401(k)?

I think a 401(k) is probably two Fifty-ish?

Here's why I'm asking that question. Do you work with a smart investor pro? Yes. When was the last time you met with them about the strategy?

I actually I was just talking with him about transferring over our Roth IRA to a normal IRA because our income exceeded the limit. But I didn't ask him about this.

I'm wondering if it's not- Well, just from like, this is real high-level math here, Ryan, but if you guys are making 300,000 a year, then you should be investing over $30,000 together, household income, In that, the max, I think, is $23,000 for your 401(k), max Roth is $7,000. That's right at... I mean, you guys could max out both of these accounts and do the backdoor Roth. Yeah, you pay taxes on it, but I would go ahead and just do that because you're still within the 15% of your income into retirement.

15% for both of us would be 45.

We can do 22 It's five each into 401k.

Yes.

I'm going to throw out to talk to you- That gets you to our 15%.

That gets you to your 15%.

Which is why, if I can jump in here, I would like for you to talk to your Smart Investor Pro about, do we diversify diversify because you've got a good chunk in Roth. I'm just wondering, not recommending, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be a good idea to do a joint brokerage account here. It gives you some other tax options, and you can invest that. Since you've got so much Roth invested, do you start to diversify that? It would be a question that I would ask.

Yeah, but I'm saying I think they can still do both.

They might be. Yeah, I'm just throwing it out there. My goal for you guys, Ryan, would be to max out the 401k They max out the Roth by doing the back door, and then if you have something above and beyond that, then that's when I would look into a broker. Just the diversification there because it does give you some- Now, our Roth 401k gets it to exactly to our 15%, but we wouldn't need to do an IRA at Oh, I hear you. That's what he's been saying. So he's already there. Yeah. Which is why I'm bringing- If we should do all Roth 401(k).

Yes, I probably would at that point. Yeah.

Okay. Instead of messing with the traditional.

Match beats Roth beats traditional. So when you look at that? If you have the Roth 401k, you could. If your income goes up, though, Ryan, I would look at the backdoor Roth. If your income grows, yeah, and you guys have more percentages because it's just a great vehicle. I don't know. I have no reason to say this. I just have a hunch in life. I'm like, I don't know how long that... I don't know if they'll have that forever and ever, Amen. I don't know. It's such a great easy retirement vehicle to throw some money in. How much do you guys have left to pay on the house?

About 300. Okay. It's worth about 750. Awesome.

Great job.

I think we should have that done in seven to eight years, probably.

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. I would go ahead and do that. Then obviously, if something changes with jobs or whatever it may be, then you would move that 401k into just a traditional IRA at that point. But that's obviously not in the... Hopefully, it won't happen. Sorry, Ryan, I was getting mixed up with my numbers in my head. No worries. Good question. I would go ahead and do your 15% all in the Roth 401k. Now, for everyone else out there, the only reason I say that is because it is a Roth. Roth is a beautiful thing. If you just have a traditional 401k at your job, you go up to the match, up to that 3, 4, 5, 6%, whatever they give you, and then the remaining of your 15% go back, go to a Roth IRA, max it out. If you still have percentages of that 15% left, go back to your 401k. But he has a Roth 401k situation, which is awesome. Yeah, very good.

Let's go to Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, now where Caleb is. Caleb, how can we help?

Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call.

You bet. What's going on today?

I'm wondering what I should start saving for first. Actually, my wife and I finish off paying off our debt. There's a lot of things I could save for, and it feels overwhelming because we don't make a ton of money, and I'm just looking for any advice you have.

You paid off all your debt. Does that include your mortgage or no?

We went right now. I'm 24. My wife's 25. We've been married for about two years.

Okay. Congratulations. When will you guys be debt-free?

They just did.

Well, we have- No?

I thought you said they paid- A little over $20,000 We have a little over $20,000 on a student loan of hers left to finish.

But once you pay it off, you're asking what to save for. What are the things you guys are- What do you guys save for? What are you all wanting to save for?

Well, We have two used cars that have no payments. Mine's close to 200,000. I don't know how much longer it's going to last. I wanted to save for a home. I know we're supposed to save for retirement. We want to have kids, and we make about 3,000 a month. It's an overwhelming prospect, and I don't even know where to go. I have two months of emergency expenses. We built that up before we started hammering the debt, but- Yeah, that's great. I'm just not sure where to go next.

Yeah. I would bump it up to three months of expenses after you pay off the debt, and that'll cover. That can be the first goal, is to get that fully funded emergency fund. Then I would see where you are with your cars. I think a car purchase is always a great thing to be saving for. I would Kelly Blue book your current car and say, Okay, how much is it? I wouldn't do it just because it has 200,000 miles. Obviously, it needs to be in a place where the repairs are getting so much and it's starting to fall apart on you. Then I would replace it. But I would drive them as long as you can. Some cars nowadays, they're built so well that they do last- It depends on the type of car.

It may not be that expensive. Do you have a line item in your budget, to Rachel's point, for car repairs?

Yeah, we put a little bit away every month for maintenance, and that's done well so far for tires and anything that's come up.

Okay, that's great. Yeah. So I think saving it for a car, but that'll be a faster goal to save for. And then, Caleb, after that, so you got your one more month of emergency fund to save to get to your three months, saving up a little bit for the car. And then I would look at Baby Step 3B, and that is where you save up a down payment on a home. So if you're a first-time home buyer, as low as 5%, you can go to put down on a house. But that would be my next goal. And you guys have plenty of time for investing, but I would get those buckled in and then start saving 15% of your income into retirement.

Thanks for the call, Caleb. You guys are going to do it. It's going to be fun. Rachel Cruz, thanks for co-hosting. What a great hour. Thank you, Austin, for keeping the plane in the air. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life, very specifically in your money, in your work, and in your relationships. 888 825. 5225 is the number. 888-825-5225. Hey, we'd love to hear from you. Always fun to be sitting alongside my good pal, my friend. I don't know if you can call a lady a pal, but I just- Just an old pal. Just my old pal, Rachel Cruz. Old pal. No, each other forever. We love, love taking your questions. Let's have some fun. Let's get some hope established for you so you can move forward. Let's start off in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. The city of?

Rachel.

Brotherly Love. There She used to make fun of me now. You're welcome. I think you've been paying attention to my little quotes.

That's it. You're so happy about it.

Melanie, how can we help?

Hey, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm excited to talk to you both.

Well, we're excited to talk to you. What's happening?

Awesome. I'm in a little bit of a professional conundrum.

I love a conundrum. You do. Great word.

I'm currently working two full-time remote jobs that has been great for my family. Kids in school and all that. I'm fortunate to find two remote jobs.

Hold on a second. Hold on. This is fascinating. I got to know. Do both companies know about the other?

Of course not.

You are a professional polygamist. Are you aware of this? Can we say?

Yes, you can say.

They're in two different fields. Melanie, I am so sorry that you have to deal with him.

No, she's not offended. She's not offended at all.

I expect Ken to give me a hard time.

Listen, not even doing that. I just wanted to say professional polygamist because you got sister wives. You got two companies that you're working full-time for, and they don't know about the other. I'm not even trying to- I think sister wives knows about each other. That is fair. You get my point. It's a fun little metaphor. How are you pulling this off? How long have you pulled this off?

I've been doing it now for a year.

Are you exhausted? Huh? Are you tired?

I'm a little tired. Yeah, I'm not going to lie.

I'm not- I mean, two full-time jobs. I'm a little tired.

Keeping them away from each other. It's like having a mistress. It's exhausting.

It's a lot of great time management. That's all I can say.

You must be incredible. What money are you knocking down?

I'm netting 96 a year. Okay.

All right. What's your question?

I just been offered a different job that would cause I'm going to be hybrid, three days in the office and two days working from home with a base pay of 100K and with up to a potential, you're getting a 20% bonus of my base pay.

Oh, wow.

What has kept you from saying yes to that offer?

Well, because I technically would be netting less. I guess right now, my husband and I bring home about 12 a month. Then if I take this, we'd be bringing home about 97.

Why would the net be less?

That's not including the bonus, though.

Yeah, exactly. You're not cheating on another company and thus, risking getting fired from one or both.

Yeah. Also, I think professionally, the job that just offered me this position would be a step up for me, professionally.

Great.

But I don't know. I just I'm a little nervous about- So it's the net. Giving up to remote jobs and flexibility with the kids because I do have school-age children at home.

Let me ask you, Melanie, let me ask you a real question. You've been a great sport because Rachel thinks I'm being mean. I'm not. I'm not judging you. I'm just trying to coach you. How long do you think you're going to be able to keep this up and then not find out about it?

How long do you think you got? Not very long. I mean, honestly, I think this is more just to do the debt snowball for my husband and I were a baby I don't think you understand the concept.

Hold on a second, Mellie. I don't think Rachel understands the concept. She's working two full-time jobs.

I hear that.

It'd be like you being a personality for another company and they not know about it. She knows she can't keep this up because she's going to get found out, and then she's fired.

Yeah, but wouldn't it be like having a part-time job, but you're just doing more hours?

It's pretty much what it's like because they are in two different fields.

No, no. Okay, hold on. Just for a point of emphasis here, okay? We're not going to get stuck on this, but I got to help my friend Rachel, and Melanie is going to help you.

Rachel has to help me here. No, she doesn't understand it.

Once she understands it- Rachel, listen to me. Here's what's happening. One company, let's call it ABC, is paying Melanie to work a full-time job?

Yes.

That's what? 40 hours a week, minimum, Melanie, roughly? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Company XYZ is also paying Melanie to work 40 hours a week. And, Melanie, just tell us, how many hours you work in a week for both companies?

Eighty.

Now, I didn't see that coming. She's trying to get me out of technicality. I still think it's unethical that they don't know about each other.

Yeah, I can get the secret. Yes.

And again, not to judge you, Melanie. There's no judgment. It's more protection. So we've already covered. Now, do you get my- No, I always get.

She can't keep this up. But in my head, if she's working, I get the secrecy, right? But if you're working both full-time Okay, I said, I acknowledge that she had me on a technicality, but it's still dishonest, and we still have an ethical issue that she could get penalized for. Yes, but with one company- Which all I care about is Melanie. But if ABC Company doesn't care that she's also working for XYZ, it doesn't matter. How do you know?

Because they don't know.

No, but what if they're If they're not, then in your book, is it okay? If they're okay with it, if they're okay with each other. A hundred %. So it's the secrecy that's bothering you, that they don't know about each other.

It's not bothering me in a sense that I think she's a bad... It's risky for Melanie. Yeah. I'm literally playing defense lawyer for her going, I'm not going to tell you what you did was wrong. My job is to help you keep getting paid and not get fired. Now the question is, do I take this other job, which has a bonus above and beyond the 100 base, plus a path for growth, Melanie. You said this is a job that's a better play for you long term. Yeah. Melanie, it's a no-brainer. Now I'm not working 80 hours a week.

Yeah, now you're not working 80 hours a week.

You're not cheating on another company.

Again, it may be lifestyle shift because it's a hybrid idea. But maybe you get into that and it works and it's great and you can you figure out the logistics with the kids and your kids are in school, which is helpful. Or you pan back a year from now and say, Wow, this is hard. So maybe I go back to LMNO Company and you find another job.

But, Melanie, you do know I'm on team Melanie, right?

We love you, Melanie. I do.

But listen. I do. I just wanted to make sure that I'm not shooting myself in the foot with the $3,000 less that I'd be making in a month.

Yeah, but you told us you're not including the bonus in that exercise. I'm not. That's true. You got to put the bonus in, amortize that over 12 months, and then you start looking at the monthly.

I'll bet you it's a lot. It's not quite $3,000 because you said 97.

My point is, I think all in all, it's not going to be that much of a difference at all in the short term, and we know long term is better if you take this It's a new job.

And just for your own benefit, so you're not working 80 hours a week, you're working 40. Yeah.

That's true.

That's true. All right. Thank you so much.

I appreciate your input.

Yeah, Melanie, take the job. Man, you got to get out of jail free here on this one. I mean, whoa. By the way, this is a new trend. She is not alone. There are millions of Americans that are professional polygims. They have two full-time jobs, and they don't know about each other, and it is cheating. I don't care how you slice it. I'm all for you getting them paid. But man, you could get fired, and it makes me nervous. Oh, man. This is the Ramsey Show. Life gets crazy, you all, and your tax situation can get complicated faster than you can say IRS. But having a Ramsey Trusted Tax Pro in your corner can take filing stress off your shoulders.

These top-of-the-line CPAs and enrolled agents have the heart of a teacher, so they'll answer your questions and give you sound advice for all kinds of situations that can make your taxes tricky.

Ramsey Trusted Pros can book up fast for tax filing, so get connected today. Just go to ramseysolutions. Com/taxpro to find one who serves your area with excellence. That's ramsey solutions. Com/taxpro. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me this hour. What do you think, America, that last It was really fun.

We had a good debate.

We really did.

In the lobby with some people that are here.

Yeah, and make no mistake. I want to say, again, I got a T-shirt on. It says Team Melanie. I just don't want her to get fired, and I feel like we got her a path to where she's going to escape and nobody hurt. But again, it's fascinating. What do you think, America? Comment. Get out there on YouTube and comment. Do you think it's okay to have two full-time jobs and both companies don't know about each other?

Okay, the don't know thing, just so everyone's clear. They don't know about it. I know. I would say that's the part for me that I'm like, Yeah, you can't. But if both companies are okay with it, I say, Get after it. Okay, there you go. Yeah, we're more on the C. We're more aligned. I knew we were. This is America. We're America right here. You think you're on two separate sides, and actually, in reality, we're not. Oh, yeah. We're not the same thing.

If both companies are okay with Melanie- It's the secrecy.

I get that.

Then I'm like, fantastic.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Go get you some money.

Because for some companies, what your position is, you're a graphic designer and you have these projects and you got to do it. If you get it done in 30 hours, 60 hours. Oh, I'm with you. You know what I mean? I'm with you. Yeah, you're getting paid for that position, too. Let's be honest. You know what?

I want to get your opinion on something really quick. This is fun. I'm going to bring you into my lane for a second.

Career, leadership. Work.

Listen, listen, listen, listen. The kid world. I think the 40-hour work week is an antiquated metric anyway.

Meaning- I feel like most people work more.

I think that, and here's what I'm going to say. I love that you're on this. I think that if you look at the world of work in Americans, it's either you work more than 40 hours or you work less. I don't think there's anybody that's knocking out 40 hours. Let me explain why. If you work an eight-hour day, you're taking a lunch break, which is probably an hour. That's not eight hours. You're seven. I'm just going. Then you start. We know the data. Don't look this up, leaders. The data on how much time people spend on social media during the work. Sure. Now you're way below 40 hours. Sure. I'm just calling it out to say, to your point, I thought you made a good point. It's about the production. Yes. Not the time clock.

That's right. You agree? I do agree with that.

The world of work is changing. You do know this. Oh, gosh. It's crazy. Have you heard about four-day work weeks? Have you heard about the four-day school week?

Oh, the school week?

There are school districts now that are testing a four-day school week because a shortage of teachers.

Longer hours? Oh, no way.

Anyway, I digress. The world is changing right in front of us.

Always. Covid did it, too, right? Wouldn't you say it fast forwarded everything?

Boy, we are Really in alignment today. Wow. You should keep making predictions.

We were a car.

It's great. I agree with you. I think COVID literally is like a fast forward button on change.

I think, too, for people, depending on how they're wired, it works. I have so many friends that are hybrid. I have so many friends that want to be in an office, and they're like, Get me out of the house. There's no way I could work from home. Some that are like, Nope, all I want to do, I will only find work from home job. I mean, yeah. I I get because it gives the variety to fit within your life. I feel like a lot of Gen Xers, we were talking about this with a recent article, but they really see work as a means to an end versus it being part of this life.

It's fascinating.

Yeah, I see that.

There you go. Anyway, America, we want you to sound off. We love it. Get in the comment section. Tell us what you think about Melody. It's always fun. Just for the record, Rachel agrees with me. Took her a minute, but we got her there.

You came to my side a little bit.

Was that what it is? Whatever. Okay. So I'm going to capitulate again. This is all I do. I've been married for 25 years. I have a teenage daughter. I'm always giving in to the women in my life. What is going on? Can I not be right once? Yeah. So fantastic. Tiffany, rescue me from this. Tiffany's on the line at Houston, Texas. What's going on, Tiffany?

Okay, so I actually wanted you all's input on something. So me and my boyfriend have been kicking around the idea of renting, or should we buy a mobile home and just stick it on a piece of land?

No. No, never.

Because there are mobile homes around here for $24,000?

Yeah, and guess what it's going to be worth in six months after that?

They go down, down, down, down, down, down in value. It's one of the It's the best investment you can make, honestly, Tiffany.

It's like buying a giant cannon ball and trying to hold it in the water. It's just you're going under. You can't keep the cannon ball up there. It won't float, folks. I'm just telling you, why would you do that?

It's not a good investment.

I'd rather you rent and keep some stability, but not buy an asset that's going downhill.

Don't buy something together with someone you're not married to as well, Tiffany.

That's a good point.

Don't put both of your names on something. It needs to be very separate. Have you ever lived in a mobile home?

Yes.

Did you like it?

Well, I was pretty well too young to remember.

Okay. Did it have a Redwood deck, while I'm asking?

As far as I remember, no. It had a lighter wood.

That's a Sammie Kershaw song, I think it is. But the point is that you're trying to figure out a way to cheaply live as opposed to doing what it takes to live smartly. What I mean by that is you're going to buy an asset that goes down. Instead of people think, Well, I'm renting, I'm throwing money away. Renting gives you options. Renting gives you stability. I They still don't understand why you would consider it other than it may be in your family, or it's just something you think is a normal thing to do.

I actually had a couple of people in my family to buy them, pick them up, and then sell them for twice as much as they put into it.

I don't believe that. Do we have paperwork on that?

Yes.

They bought a mobile home and sold it for twice as much. Who did they sell it to?

Now, that I don't know, but they showed me the paperwork. They sold it for 50,000. They only had about 20 in it.

Tiffany, how much do you make a year?

Just me, I make about 50.

You're 50? Okay, that's great. Yeah. So, Tiffany, what I would do, honestly, yeah, I would rent you. What debt do you have?

I have two credit cards. How much is- They have $1,000 on them, collectively. Okay.

Both of them have $1,000. So 2,000 in credit card debt. What else?

No, it's like one has 500, one has four.

Oh, okay. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay, okay, okay. Perfect. Okay, what else?

I have a payment to the electric company that I have to make when me and my ex-husband split up because my name was on the utilities. Okay. He couldn't keep it paid, so I just had them shut off.

Okay. Do you have a car payment?

Well, my boyfriend does.

Your boyfriend does. But you don't. Not in your name. No. No. Okay. Well, you're in a good spot. Do you have any money saved?

I'm working on that one.

Yeah, that's great. That's great, Tiffany. Well, I think one of your first goals is to get $1,000 saved. I would not combine anything with your boyfriend. You want to keep finances separate when you're not married for many reasons. But one of them easily is just the legal reason. I mean, if you put your name together on something and then you guys break up, he stops paying. We get that call all the time. You're stuck with it. So keep everything separate. My first goal, Tiffany, would be to save a $1,000 emergency fund on your own with your money and put that away and then cut up these credit cards. You could probably cut them up today. I would just get rid of the credit cards and pay off that debt after that $1,000 is saved and then bump up your starter emergency fund to three to six months of expenses. So starting to get you a strong foundation financially for you, where you don't have payments, you have some good savings in the bank. And in the meantime, Tiffany, then I would rent. And again, on the lease or whatever, I would not sign something together.

Let it be in one of your names. And if something happens to the relationship, It, then that person is the one who will live there. The other person will have to find somewhere else to live. But just don't merge your life and act like you're married when you're not, because from a financial standpoint, it gets people in a lot of trouble. So just protect yourself in that, Tiffany, financially. But I would rent. I would not buy a mobile home.

We just see- Please do your research.

Don't just take our- We see the stats on it. Don't just take our opinion. It's not a great investment long term. I would love for you to own a home and save it for a down payment here in a few years.

All right, we'll be right back. Don't move. This is The Ramsey Hey, you've been listening to the show. Now it's time to start doing no more excuses. Join me and the rest of the Ramsey personalities for the total money makeover weekend here in Nashville on May 10th and 11th. Get a crash course on everything we teach about money, including budgeting, beating debt, investing, and more. In just one weekend, you'll leave with a plan to put it all into action. It's game on, baby. Early Bird tickets start at $99, so don't wait. Go to ramseysolutions. Com/weekend. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me this hour. The phone number is 888-825-5225. We're so glad you're with us. Let's go to Fort Myers, Florida, now, where Tracy joins us. Tracy, how can we help?

Hi there. Thank you for having me. My husband was in a near fatal car crash a little over a year ago.

Oh my gosh. I'm so sorry. Is he okay?

No, thank you. Yeah, God is good. Oh, wow. He suffered with paralysis at the accident. A month later, he coded and he blew a stroke, which gave him brain damage. Oh, no. He got stress. So he was the breadwinner. He was the breadwinner. I'm sorry, I didn't know I was going to cry.

You're okay. You're okay. No, listen, you've been through a lot.

That's a lot.

Anyway, we have a 22 and a 20-year-old. Anyway, all that to say, I homeschooled the kids. Then I was just working at just a fast food restaurant takeout for about six months until the accident, and I left and I never returned. I just started an entirely different I did a part-time job just about a month ago, and so I don't make that much. It's about 24 hours. It's part-time, obviously, because I'm with my husband on Wednesdays and Thursdays in Tampa. Anyway, I make roughly about 1,700 a month through that position. I'm just wondering what I could do to sustain our house. I I'm going to be able to keep our home. I'm not quite sure if I'm going to be able to, but there is debt. I have about 17,000 in credit card debt. Our mortgage is at a good rate. It's 2.875%, and our mortgage is 15, 18 per month. I mean, those are very comfortable numbers to me, but when I don't have income really slowing, I do have a stable amount in savings, but it's going to go. I mean, it's already been dwindling.

How much do you have in savings?

About 8,000.

Okay. What have you been doing for income since this stroke?

The truck that he totaled in the accident I did get money back from that, and I got scared. I'm still paying on that as well. It's like 180 something a month. I used to basically live on. I I had that. Actually, friends through different churches were so gracious, and my daughter actually.

Tracey, did you say, because you're in Fort Myers, and he's in Tampa?

Yeah. So Fort Myers is our nearest city.

So how far is he from distance-wise? How far?

About two and a half hours.

Okay. And he's there, obviously, for medical For what reasons?

Yeah, he's at the VA in Tampa.

So that means his expenses for care are covered?

For now, until they switch him to perhaps a long term because he needs 24/7 care.

Okay. Will he be in Tampa? Do you think he'll be there for the foreseeable future, or will he be coming back closer to you guys?

I would rather him stay there. Well, actually, I'm torn about that. He would end up in a nursing home, probably, if it would be near us.

Because my question to you, Tracy, is, I mean, have you thought about moving towards him if he'll be there?

To tell you the truth, I'm not quite sure about that for a different reason.

Did he have any retirement or any… Where were you guys at on that? I'd I'd like to get a pretty high-level picture of your finances. Did he have retirement? Do you guys have retirement? What's that look like?

No, it doesn't look like anything because we just don't have that.

How old are you?

I'm 57. Okay.

How much is left on the mortgage, Tracy?

The current balance for the mortgage is $233,778.

Okay. What was he making before the accident?

He was making roughly $4,000-something a month.

Okay. Take home pay? Yeah. Okay. How much is on the truck? How much do you owe on the truck?

To tell you the truth, I don't have the balance. I've been paying it for... I mean, he was already paying on it, so it'd been like two years' loan, and it was only a $5,000 loan.

Okay, so probably not much left on that. I want you to find that today. I think as much details as you can have about your money situation, usually just the more piece that you have because it takes all the guesswork out so you're able to see. I want you to find that today, if you can, how much is left on that truck loan. And then the credit cards, the 17,000, is that just lifestyle? Is that just to keep you guys, keep the lights on throughout the This last year, or did you guys have this debt before the accident?

We had some of it before the accident. We usually like to use cash, but it just got up. I mean, just out of note. But I also used it this past year, just for different things.

Yeah, for sure. It feels like you have been scraping by. Do you have a pretty good budget? You know exactly where the money is coming and going?

I do, but I just know that with me being out of work and him for over a year, we took a big, big hit.

No, I get it. But what I'm getting at is this. If you have a really good grasp of your budget, then you should be able to say, All right, I have to bring in this much a month. For instance, all I'm doing is looking at the one bill, which is your mortgage is 1,500 a month, and you're making 1,700 a month. Obviously, we've got to come up with a number where you say, I have to make, and I'm just going to put a number out there. Don't freak out. But if it's like, I have to make 4,000 a month or 3,500 a month, just to have some breathing room. But in this situation, Rachel, I'd love to see if maybe selling the house and getting a- What's hard, Tracy, is I think with these numbers, as Ken was pointing out, that working part-time long-term is not...

No, it's not an option. That can't be the solution. It's not the option. That's why I was asking about you moving closer to Helm so that you could work full-time and be close to Helm. But those decisions, they have to... Yeah, and that's what's so hard, Tracy, and I commend you. I can't even imagine what you walked through the last year. Like you said, and I feel like this is so true for a lot of women, they leave the workforce and they raise kids, and then you get put in a situation and you think, Oh, my gosh, I have to go back to work. What am I going to do? Tracy, I think it would be a good goal for you just from a... I'm going to give an example here in a minute. Yeah, but you're the job career expert, Ken, so you can speak into this. But Tracy, I would want you to have a timeline soon. It's February, and I don't know what that looks like for you, but where you feel like, Okay, I can now step in and get something more full-time. Even if it's a receptionist job somewhere or anything that has benefits that gets you a stable, good income and use the gifts, everything that you have, it is marketable.

I'm like, to run a household and do what you're doing.

Yeah, let me give you a couple of things here. Okay, so $20 an hour job, Tracy. Okay, 40 hours a week, that's going to gross you $3,200 a month. Okay, that's a sizable raise. That's at $20 an hour. Okay, and I'm giving you examples. You have companies like Walmart, Target, market that are paying really good hourly rates between, let's call it, $18 to $22 an hour. You don't have to have a ton of experience. They want somebody who they can count on. And believe me, they can count on you. They also give great benefits. Right now, because of your husband's long-term situation, I'm not just thinking short term when I give you this advice. I'm thinking long term. You can get in, start getting some good benefits, and maybe you sell the house as an option, and then maybe you rent something, maybe the 22 and the 20-year-old, depending on what they're. They got their own life, too. But maybe you get a roommate. If your husband's living... We've got to do everything we can right now to lower your expenses as low as possible while increasing your income, Tracy, to your max of what you can do where you are right now.

Then you can build out, you can get out of this hole. You can pay off the debt. You can begin to invest. You can do this because you're going to have to, Tracy. It's on you now, and you can do it. Hang on the line. I want to get you with one of our financial coaches that will just further help lay out a path. Let's also give the full suite, every dollar, total money makeover, financial piece. Let's come alongside Tracy in this situation. So sorry. Thank you, Tracy, for calling. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. Our scripture of the day comes from Romans 12:9. Don't just pretend to love others. Really love them. Hate what is wrong. Hold tightly to what is good. Our quote today from your friend, Rachel friend makes the quote today. Candice Cameron, bure. Is it Oh. Is it Buh or bur? Bure or bure? Do you know?

Bure. Bure. That's how I say it. Sorry, Candice. I don't know if that's right or not.

Your integrity is worth so much more than proving a point or having the last word. That's a good Great quote. That one gets me because I tend to be the last word guy. I've had to learn in my marriage to let Stacey have the last word.

What's the quote? They say it on Bluey. You can either be right or have fun or something. I don't know.

Generally, for me, it would be, I can either be right or wrong in Stacy's eyes, and then that ends up being right. Happy wife, happy life. Just be wrong.

Just be wrong. It's easier, guys.

Tiffany is up in Atlanta, Georgia. Tiffany, how can we help?

Hi, guys. About five years ago, my husband, myself, and my then 10-year-old son were in a really, really horrible car accident. Oh, my. It was really tough. My son was in the children's hospital for 40 days, 28 in the ICU.

Oh, my goodness.

I'm so sorry. I say he's great now. He's a thriving 15-year-old freshman in high school. I say he suffered the physical wounds, but My husband and I suffered the emotional wound. Oh, without question. We had done a lot of work, but he received a settlement from that accident that after attorney's fees and insurance companies negotiated, totaled about $180,000. His dad and I are financially debt-free, stable, so we have college plans for him. We have no need to access that money. As far as we are concerned, it's his money, and it's been invested for him. It actually has had some growth. It's worth about $215,000 now. Great.

Wow.

Yeah. My concern, well, it's a two-fold question. That money becomes his at 18. I'm not sure there's any way I can legally safeguard it to protect it from decisions that 18-year-old boys can make other than we've tried to raise our son to be fiscally responsible. Then also, what is the best avenue for that money? Do we continue just to keep it invested in the market, or is there something we- What fund is it in right now? I'd have to go look. I think it's in some mixed index. We had our financial planner just invest it.

Okay.

Okay. Yeah. I mean- So it's a pretty significant growth. Yeah, and the market- But you opened the account in his name, or do you guys have any authority over it?

It seems like you have the authority over it, yes.

I do, but from what legally was explained to us that I'm the trustee, it becomes his money at 18. At 18.

Because the lawsuit was in his. Yeah.

For him. I don't know the answer to this, Rachel, but could she, as a trustee, put that in a trust?

Put it within? I don't know. I don't know. I would get legal advice.

I really would. I would sit with one of your… We would send you to Smart Investor Pro. I would get some legal advice on this. That would be the only thing. I don't know the answer, but I would Okay, as the trustee, I have authority over it until the kid turns 18. Yeah. What decision? I don't have the answer, but I think I have the right question. I want Rachel to correct me if this is the wrong question. But I would be asking, what can I do, me and his father, me and his father do as his trustees with that money to further protect it.

Okay.

That's what I would look into. You may not be able to do anything. I just feel that there's got to be something that you guys can do with that money as the trustees that would maybe push it out, maybe put it in a trust. Yeah, somebody can answer that question. I wish I knew the answer, but I would be looking into that. Rachel, you agree?

Yeah, because Yeah. I think the goal, because it's amazing, you guys have college and all of it, is that he doesn't touch it. I mean, the only reason I would use that money if I were him, and you could walk through this with him, which I know you guys probably have had these conversations, but I'm like, if you're a 25-year-old kid and you can buy a house and start your life off debt-free, you know what I mean? Like the things you can try- Would you put a limit on it?

I'm curious, what age would you recommend, Rachel, that he have access to these things?

I would like him to be out of college. I think that would be ideal, right? So 21, 22 years old. What do you think, mom?

Is that where your head's at?

Well, yeah. His dad and I, like I said, we have a 529 plan for him. We're debt free. We have a large net worth ourselves, and so he doesn't have to worry about finances through college. Ideally, I think what we would like him to do is to have it to start his life with. When he's done with grad school or college, he shouldn't have a need for it before then.

That's right. Yeah, I agree.

To start your life debt-free and then with a chunk of money that has continued to have compounded growth over the next- Over the next- Because if he's 15 now- Ten more years.

I mean, if- Ten years.

It's wild. It's going to be some really nice money. Tiffany, I think that's the question to ask. If you can't protect it, that doesn't feel overly controlling.

I mean, if he's 32 and you're like, I'm still. That's one thing. But to get him out of I feel like in college, everyone just doesn't make smart decisions between 18 and 21.

Oh, yeah. I should correct myself. We have people listening. I said 10 years. I was thinking 25. Give it 10 years to grow, and now he gets out of it. I'm not disagreeing with either one of you ladies, but there's part of me that if I'm putting myself in this situation, I want him to come out of college, which you guys have been so amazing to save up for him. I want him to get out there and make it on his own for a couple of years before he comes into this wealth. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. You see where I'm going? I'm not saying to lay it to 35 or that.

No, right.

But either way is right. But the point is, that's what you got to figure out, is how can you extend it beyond 18 if you can?

Yeah. Until he's out of college would be my goal. With it. It's a lot of money to start with. But from a legal standpoint, like an up my account, all that stuff, it does turn over. But I would sit down and have a real mature conversation and even show him. I don't know how intrigued a 18-year-old would be at that point, but pull up an investment calculator and just say, Hey, you don't need this money. Let's pretend it's not there. When you're 22, 23, 24, you can watch it as it grows. At that amount of money, it's going to do great. Hold on, Sarah.

You make a great point. Tiffany, does he know about the 215?

He is aware of it. He does know about it, and he's actually seen some of the financial statements just because he He's a very intelligent 15-year-old, and he has his own checking and savings already because we wanted to teach him fiscal responsibility, and he's actually a great saver. So he enjoys seeing this growth already that it's had. So We're trying to instill those values because we felt like that it's better to use this to help teach lessons.

Yeah, sure.

That's why I ask. I'm wondering, are you guys sitting down with him going, Hey, so 215,000, it could be this in three years or Five years away. What do you think he'd do with it? Are you having those conversations just to see where his immature, even though he's a great kid, he's still 15, where does his head go on these things? What does he say?

He says to buy a house one day.

Yeah. Good.

That's a great answer. It's a great answer. He didn't say buy a Porsche, which isn't a bad idea, but my point is, that's a pretty mature response. I think talking with him about it and letting him take some ownership before he ever can touch it is an interesting It's a interesting way to go about it, Rachel. Yeah.

I'm like, which the judicial system did its work, but I'm like, as a 10-year-old kid, what you went through, you know what I mean? This money, it's not that it heals the wounds and the scars and the memories of what happened by any stretch of the imagination. But for him, too, to feel the weight of what you… Again, I hate comparing money to a medical situation, but we don't want to go and waste all of this because what you went through, this money is worth more than that. You know what I mean? That's a great point. That feeling of what you guys went through as a family. I'm like, honor this money because it came because of a horrible cost, and we don't want to… I would say the same is true with inheritances. When people get an inheritance, use that to further that person's legacy and something that they would be proud of. You take it in that vein as well. But to me, I'm so thankful you guys are okay and that he's okay and great parenting. Model the way. By the way, you guys have done a great job.

Model the way. Model the way. Your financial situation is great. That's what we want you to do. Go talk to people who know the answers to that locally on the ground, and you'll know what you can do next. Rachel Cruz, great show. Thank you, my friend, for always hanging out. Great time. I want to thank Austin and the team for keeping us on the air. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, folks. Dave Ramsey here. You know budgeting doesn't have to be boring. You just need a budgeting app that's made with you in mind, and that's EveryDollar. The EveryDollar app has helped millions of people work the baby steps and take the stress out of planning and managing their money. Start budgeting with EveryDollar for free right now. Just go to ramseysolutions. Com/everydollar and download the app today. That's ramseysolutions. Com/everydollar.