Live from the headquarters, supporters of Ramsay Solutions. It's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey personality George Campbell, joined by my good friend Jade Warshaw. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225 if you've got that burning question, you find yourself at a crossroads. You're not sure what to do next. You're in a pickle. We're here for you. That's what we do. Whether it's about your money, your life, your relationships, we want to help you take the right next step. So Aaron is kicking us off here in Knoxville, Tennessee. Erin, welcome to the show.

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help?

Yeah, so I am in a unique situation. I am currently in vet school with about two years left. And through some loan simulators and things like that, I've been able to calculate that I'm going to end school with about $400 to $420,000 in student loan debt. So I guess my question is related to how can I set myself up now and in the future for the best financial position to be in? And should I take advantage of situations like the public service loan forgiveness to potentially rely on that for some of this loan debt?

Well, the que. I mean, you said you have two years to go, so right now would be the time to start, like, stop in your tracks and stop creating more debt, because how much do you have at this point?

So at this point, I'm about $240,000 in debt, but I have two years remaining in my vet school program.

And then your question after that was basically, what can I do to have better choices and be on a better financial footing? And the answer to that question is right now, like, you've got 240,000. Now you got to turn the faucet off. Like, you're just going to. There's no point in letting this get to 400, 425, 450 when you can stop it now. And I think that's the first thing, is let's come up with a path to where you can finish these last two years. And we're not taking out student loans and going into massive amounts of debt in order to do that. Is that. I mean, that's fair, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

So what would that look like?

Um, well, it would likely look like probably finding a job while I'm in school.

Okay.

Like that just to pay for some of the. Pay for some of the tuition and fees that come up perfect. Then I guess I don't really have any other debts outside of my student loans. And so let's not take solace in apartment.

Let's not take solace in the fact that you don't have any other debt outside of your student loans because your student loans are astronomical. So I don't want you leaning on that like, well, it's only my, like, it's. It's just these student loans because it's a lot. So I don't want you to let your mind go there.

Are you single? Go ahead, John or George, are you single? Aaron, is it just your income?

I am single, yes.

Okay. What's your current income?

I am currently a full time student. And as far as in school, it's kind of tough because it is a professional program to have. So how are you living so, on the student loans?

Okay, so you're putting all of your life's expenses on these student loans? Essentially, yes.

What will you earn when you get out of school?

So coming out of school, it's going to be dependent on location, but about 100 to 150,000 starting out.

And you understand that if you're going to go the student loan forgiveness route, you would have to work for a non profit animal welfare organization or shelter.

Yeah.

Or like the department of agriculture, which means your income is going to be limited.

Yes.

You're not going to make as much.

As if you were in private practice.

Yeah. I've looked at some of the average salaries for some of those positions, and again, location dependent, but about 90 to 100,000.

Okay. So think about it this way. Let's say you go and you make 90. That's a best case scenario. Right out of. Right out of school. Well, making 90. And now you still have bills to pay. You're only going to be able to put away, let's say 30, if you're lucky, on your student loans every year, which means you're on a track with interest. Maybe pay this off in 15 or 20 years. That plan sucks. And so we're trying to set you on a path to where you're already going to graduate with debt. We know that. We're trying to limit the damage and stop the bleeding so that you can get out in three or four years instead of that. So if you can go out there in the marketplace and be making 150, well, that changes the numbers. And that's why I'm not a fan of these public student loan forgiveness programs. Number one, very hard to qualify. You have to play their game perfectly. You can't have anything wrong on the application or you're denied. And the, it's abysmal seeing the rates of forgiveness that are actually happening out there. So it's not a plan you should bank on anyways.

But the other side is that you're locked into working for these nonprofit agencies, which limits your income. You might be able to make double in a private practice, but you can't because you were handcuffed to this nonprofit and to this PSLF. So do you see the conundrum here?

Yes, I do.

And so your best bet is to, number one, minimize the damage. Is there a way to transfer and go to a more affordable vet school at this stage?

At this point in my education? Unfortunately, no, because I would likely have to backtrack just because some of the programs are so different from each other.

Do we know that, or is that an assumption? Do we know that for real?

Yeah, I've looked into it when I was way earlier on in my academic career, and I had actually a close friend who did transfer from one program to another and had to backtrack by a year.

Okay, my next question would be, how old are you?

I'm 25.

Okay. There's not. I'm just going to be honest, there's. There's no scenario where I'm going to say, yeah, just go ahead and take these loans and, you know, deal with it when you deal with it. So for me, even if that means, like, I got to take a break and stack up some money so I can pay for the next semester, I'm. I'm going to do whatever it takes to make this happen, because there is a part of this equation where there's something that we want and we want to have it quickly. Right. When you think, oh, this is the career I want, I want it in four years. So I'm going to take this degree and I'm going to take student loans to make it happen. But just like so many of the other things that we talk about with finance, it takes time in order to have what it is that you want. And sometimes with education, it's no different. Right. You want this fancy vet degree. It's expensive. You can't afford it. So there is something that to be said for, okay, how much time, realistically, is it going to take me to get this?

And I might not have it by cultural or normal standards of time. Does that make sense?

Yes, it does.

And so, yeah, we think, okay, four year degree, maybe five years, but this might take you longer to have that. And you have to decide, is it worth me having it the right way? The way that causes the least amount of risk and friction in my life, or do I want it now the way I want it? And I'm going to go into $500,000 of debt in order to get it and then make 30,000 a dollar a year debt dollars payments. I mean, the choice is yours.

So, Aaron, you got some homework in front of you. And like we said, your best path is to limit the bleeding here and then make as much money on the back end and pay this off as quickly as possible. But I would not graduate and then hope that ten years down the line of working in nonprofits that you get these forgiven. That's a bad plan. This is the Ramsay show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm George Camel, joined by Jade Warshaw. Open phones at 888-25-5225 now, if you've been listening to the show for about ten minutes, you know about our world class budgeting app called everydollar that helps you manage money the Ramsay way. It simply works, whether you're on iOS, Android, or online, and you can start every dollar for free and immediately see where you stand with money. There's a reason we tell people when they call in, have you actually made a budget? Have you actually looked at the reality of your finances and gotten organized and stopped the overspending and save more? So in every dollar, there's a new feature in the premium version that will show you a long term financial roadmap where you can track your net worth, your debt free date, even your retirement date, your baby step progress, and more. So go download the app on iOS, Android, or just go to everydollar.com. And speaking of everydollar, Jade, we will be doing you and I a free budgeting live stream, indeed, on YouTube, on the Ramsey show YouTube channel on April 11. And we're going to be answering your top questions we get around budgeting.

Like how do I get started? I've never budgeted before. Can I budget and still enjoy my life? That's a great one. How do I deal with changes that are coming up throughout the month? How can couples budget together? How do I get my spouse involved? And also answering your questions live from the chat on the phones. So it's going to be a good time. And if you want to stay tuned to that, you can also ask your budgeting questions@askolutions.com. And be sure to tune in on April 11 for that budgeting live stream. If you hop over to the YouTube channel, you can hit the little button to be reminded because I will forget in the grand scheme of the Internet, there's a lot going on out there.

I'll remind you, George.

Thank you. I'll be here. All right, let's get to the phone. Savannah is up next in New Orleans. What's going on, Savannah?

Hi. Thanks for taking my call.

Sure.

Yeah. So my question is, I recently read the total money makeover with my husband and we have honestly never budgeted before, have kind of been irresponsible. We currently are homeowners and we have about $10,000 in credit card debt. However, I do have $6,000 in our savings account. I'm really passionate, really want to get this debt paid off. However, I'm so nervous to use the 6000 in our savings to pay off debt simply because since we do own our home, we do live in a flood zone. It's very hurricane prone and my deductible on my homeowners insurance is exactly $6,000. So if a hurricane hits, we need a new roof, our house floods, it's going to cost me $6,000 and that's why I have that in the bank account to begin with. So I guess I just want to hear your perspective. Should I use that to pay off this debt or just kind of. I'm not sure where to go from here.

I would, if I were in your shoes, I would most definitely use this money. Saved all but $1,000 and throw it towards your debt. Is the credit card debt your only debt?

Yeah, our cards are paid off. I do have of course my mortgage. But other than that, that's it.

Yeah, I would do it. I mean, think about it like this. I know this might be seem kind of funny, but I'm like, listen, it's not hurricane season yet, so you've got some time to pay off this debt and start saving up very quickly. And there's a big part of this where I like that pressure of feeling like I. If I do this, I've got to move quickly because so many people think that they can just kind of patty cake their way through the baby steps. And this is a great incentive for you to move quickly and move at the speed of intensity that we would suggest for people to move. Do you see what I'm saying?

I do. I even have another $3,000 saved up because I started my young children a college fund. So I kind of have my baby step.

Hey, there you go.

That's socked away in the kids college fund.

It's already in the five already invested.

Or is that saving?

It's not in it. It's just. It's in a separate savings account. Okay. College fund.

It sounds liquid to me.

That as well.

Yes, ma'am.

That means you have $8,000 you can throw at ten, which means you have two left. So then the question becomes, how quickly could you pay off $2,000 next month?

Now that we've started budgeting, I think we probably could get it pretty quickly. We've been irresponsible with our budget before, but we downloaded the app and I love it and we're really focusing on our budget. So I do think in maybe like two, three months we probably could get the other 2000.

What's your household income?

It's about 100,000.

So let's say what. Do you know what the take dollars home pay is every month out of that 100,000?

Yeah. We bring home just under $8,000 a month.

Oh, my goodness. That's incredible.

That is.

You're telling me out of $8,000 next month, you couldn't find two to throw at the debt?

Yeah, our kids. But we have.

Well, how much is your mortgage?

My mortgage is 1200.

Okay, that's not bad. And you've got two children, what age?

Four and two. And they're both at daycare? Yeah.

Okay, so what are you paying? 3000 a month for daycare?

I actually have a really great local church daycare. So we pay about 1500 a month for daycare for both of them.

So where's the rest of this money going? Because those are generally the two biggest expenses. You don't have car notes, you don't have any other debt. Where's the rest of the money going?

To be honest, we just started budgeting last month and all of our money was just literally going down the track.

So then George. George is right. George is right. That $2,000 is definitely there because. Yeah. Because unless you can name off one other major expense that's throwing off our brains right now, if it's not the mortgage and it's not daycare and it's not the cars, then everything else is tiddly winks.

Okay, so here's your homework. Savannah, you and your husband, you're gonna sit down. You're gonna make that every dollar budget, and you're gonna list out food, utility, shelter, transportation, insurance. List it your minimum payments on the debt, and then see how much money is left over. If you just followed that plan, and my guess is you'll go, oh, my gosh. If we actually followed this, we would have $2,400 extra this month. And guess what? You knock out the credit card next month. You just freed up the credit card payment. That now becomes another part of the budget to help you get that emergency fund even faster.

Okay, that's.

Okay.

Now, that. That definitely, definitely makes sense. I think food was our business.

I was going to say, check that. Uber eats. I guarantee you it's some in that category.

Yeah, it was. It was. It was a bad. Whenever we looked at our budget for last month, it was like $4,000 went to food.

Listen, there it is.

And there it is. You're not alone. Like Michael Jackson said, you're definitely not alone in that category, but you can get it on track. Just. You're gonna have to cut back, and you're gonna feel it, especially if you're used to just being able to run out, pick up a meal, you know, call it in, and have it delivered. That's definitely gonna be a behavior change, but totally gonna be worth it in order to get this $10,000 credit cards paid off and have a three to six month of real emergency fund sitting there for you.

This is amazing. I feel really good about this. I'm happy because there's so much hope in the situation.

Well, at first, I thought she was gonna say, oh, it's our mortgage. Like, our mortgage is 60% of our, you know, something crazy. But listen, doordash. It's.

That'll get you.

Yeah. And she's investing in the kids college.

Fund, which is a good thing. But the problem, Jade, is a lot of people are doing a lot of good things at once, and then they become bad things.

That's right. Or out of order. Yeah.

I'm trying to pay off debt, but I also want to invest, but I also want to save up for this thing, and I also need to cover this thing. And there's a method to the madness that is called the baby steps.

That's right.

So $1,000 is your starter goal. That's baby step one. Get that baby emergency fund.

Most people get it in 30 days or less.

She already had it.

Yeah.

So you leapfrog to two, pay off all consumer debt. Outside of that thousand dollars, any savings you have goes toward it. We're pausing investing, even if it's for the match, because that frees up some serious money that you can use to accelerate your baby steps.

And most people are done with that.

Years or less, 18 to 24 months for baby step two, on average.

Very good.

And then baby step three takes another three months. Six months. Some people takes twelve months to get that fully funded emergency fund of three to six months of expenses.

And I always say it's basic expenses because a lot of people, it takes them forever to save that up because they're saving up all their bells and whistles budget. Right. And I'm like, no, this is the money that it takes to keep things.

This is the if crap hit the fan. What do we need to cover?

That's right.

All the extra luxuries.

That's right. And then baby step four is my personal favorite. Right. Four, five and six, you're doing them simultaneously. But I love that initial baby step four of saving 15% of your gross, really, income every month. And so that's my favorite. And of course, you're doing that at the same time as baby step five.

Saving for the kids college. But even then, you do them in order, so you got to put your own mask on first. I was just on a flight and the flight attendant, we had our baby.

Good word.

And she said, she went over to my wife, Whitney, and said, remember to put your mask on first. And I was like, what a great reminder for life and finances.

Yes.

Like, I love that you want to take care of the kids and help them go to college debt free, but if it means you're going to be broke in retirement with debt and nothing saved in the nest egg, yeah, that kid's going to have to take care of you.

That's facts.

Mom and dad are going to be moving back into the house, and that becomes a real burden later on when you're not prepared. So that's the baby steps. And Jade and I both followed them. They work. They still work in 2024. They worked back in 1992 when Dave started this show. And they'll work 30 years from now. It's God's and grandma's ways of handling money. That's what we do here. The principles don't change. The methods may change over time, but it works. You get out of debt, you have an emergency fund. You invest for the future. You're gonna be okay. This is the Ramsay show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Jade Warshaw. This hour, the number to call is triple 8825-5225 you call us up, we'll talk about your life and your money. Jacob is up next in Los Angeles, California. What's going on, Jacob?

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure. How can we help?

So I kind of need some, I guess, some direction in terms of what to do next in my life financially. My parents recently went through a divorce, and so I kind of had to take over as, like, the main contributor to the household financially. I'm currently living with my mother and my younger sibling, so I'm kind of paying for mortgage, you know, all the insurances.

Why is that? Why is mom not working?

No, no, she is. She is. So because, you know, cost of living in California is insane. The way we set it up is I pay for, I say I want to estimate, like, 60% to 70% of my take home pay, and then the rest is made up by my younger sibling and my mother.

How old are you?

I'm 28 right now.

Okay, so when you say 60% to 70% of your income, tell us dollar wise, how much money is this costing you every month?

I would say maybe around 28 to 3000.

Okay, so you're spending $3,000, kind of paying the, the things that make the house go round. And tell me again, explain to me again why mom is not contributing no, no, she is. But, but how much is she contributing? If you're contributing that much right now.

She'S contributing maybe like 1500.

And explain to me why that is.

Well, she doesn't really make much, so because I make the most in the household right now. So I wanted to, you know, obviously.

So did she ask you to take on the brunt of this or was this something you sort of stepped up and went, mom, here's what I'm gonna do.

Yeah, no, I definitely stepped up. I mean, it isn't fair for her to, or for me to force her to try and find a job out of nowhere.

The scary part is it's not fair for you to prop up a lifestyle that's not sustainable for them because let's say you go up and get married next year, you move out, you're not still paying all of their bills.

And how old's your sister?

My sister is 25, I guess to give a little bit more information. So in terms of the unsustainable lifestyle, it more or less is the reason she got a job is because if me and my sister were to contribute 100% of our take home pay, we would be able to afford all the groceries and everything else to make the live. But because she has a wonderful mother, she is, she's like, oh, I don't want you or both of you to not have any savings for the future. So she said, I'm going to get a job to do it. But because, objection.

Wait a minute, let me jump in here. Okay, couple quick questions. You guys live in Los Angeles, but it doesn't sound like it's for the reason of a career. Like nobody's like, listen, I started my, my firm here and now this is where I'm at. It sounds like you guys are kind of making ends meet to you. Your terminology. Why are you still living in such an unsustainable, to quote you, inexpensive area?

Well, my dad's business was here, so we all moved here. And my mom does help with that. Even through the divorce. It wasn't an ugly divorce. Now, it was one of the situations where they got married out of, you know, necessity because they needed to help each other.

But that money's not filtering into your lifestyle now because they're now divorced and the two children are grown. So my question stands. It sounds like if this is an unsustainable situation for your mom, and I'm saying your mom, because the two kids are grown, like you're grown, it sounds like she's got to decide where can she live. That's not Los Angeles, California, and afford her lifestyle, because here's my second part of this. You're 28. Your sister's 25. Typically, the reason that somebody would say, somebody your age would say, hey, I'm living at home, is typically because they've got student loans, they've got bills, and it's cheaper for them to live at home than it is for them to maybe do something on their own. And in your case, that's not really the case, because you're paying for your mom's life. And I understand that there's, you know, it's been something traumatic here with the divorce, but it still doesn't place that ball in your court. Do you see what I'm saying? And so I think all three of you have to go, what does my life look like? Where can I live? Where I can afford to be an independent person?

Cause do you have debt?

No, I have no debt.

You have no debt. There's nothing that stops you from saying, hey, I'm gonna go a further radius out from, you know, Los Angeles, California, wherever that is, and I'm gonna figure out where I can live to do a job that I can make more money doing and support my lifestyle. What are you earning now, and what is your job now?

I'm an analyst for a film studio, and I earn gross is around $80,000.

Okay, so that's great. That, to me, $80,000. You're doing good. Like, there's gotta be a life that you can have on $80,000. Is that fair enough?

Yeah.

Okay.

So, Jacob, on my screen here, it says, how do I make enough to take care of my mom? Is that the ultimate question? Are you wanting to make more so she can stop working?

Yeah, she's working right now to help contribute, but obviously, you know, she's kind of, you know, getting up their news. I don't know how to put that delicately, but. But because she. First language, she's turning 60. But she does have some, like, health issues.

So what is her plan for retirement? Because right now, you just. You're just gonna stunt your growth as an independent person to just, well, I got to take care of mom for the rest of my life. I'm going to live at home. And what if she lives to be 90 now? You're 58 and still propping up her life because she didn't prepare?

Yeah, that's. Because that's the kind of situation I'm in. Like, she does kind of have, like, a very loose retirement plan. I don't think it's as structured as I would like personally.

What is it but laid out.

So she said that her plan is to, well, we'll still live in this house that we are, this condo that we have. And you know, she.

Did you say wheel, like, all of you will still be living together for her retirement?

No, my sister is planning to move out, and so they're just me and my mother.

But this is not good.

This is not good. This is not good.

Yeah, and I know it's not good, but yeah. Once she is old enough to get Social Security, she says she plans on finding like one of those, I guess, like apartments or whatever that is like income based or like low income, something like that, and kind of live there. But I guess another piece of information is my parents do have a second property that's paid off and that's they're getting like rental income. But because of the divorce, they were debating whether or not selling it or.

Just splitting, you know, what it's worth. If they were to sell it, what would they. What would they take to have to split?

I think collectively if they sold it, they get maybe around a million.

Okay, so she'd get 500,000 and then have to take out fees and whatnot, right?

Yeah.

Is she getting rental income right now from this property?

Yeah, yeah, right now it's already been paid off for years. And they've been kind of.

How much is she making from that?

Now that it's split, she'll make around 1000.

And then what is she making from her job?

Right now she's only, she's like elderly care. So I guess it's based off how many people she takes care of. She's only taking care of one person. So she earns around 1500 net. But she says she is planning on assisting another person. That would bring her income to me.

Listen, I don't mean any harm. You gotta separate yourself from the situation. This is gonna pull you under, dude.

You're going the opposite direction by saying, I'm gonna work more so mom doesn't have to work because that becomes enabling. And you're gonna have to keep that up for the rest of your life. Cause mom's not gonna up and get a job ten years from now if you decide to move out.

Right. And right now you're paying, like, to your point, you're paying 60% to 70% of the household expenses. She has no reason. And in her mind, the plan is your sister can go on along, but you're gonna live with me until I'm done. And that. That really puts you in a bad position. If I were your mom, I would be talking to ex husband. I'd say, we need to sell this property because I need this $500,000 and I need it in my nest egg so it can grow for me for the next ten years.

And she still has to work for the next ten years?

That's right. Oh, my goodness.

So, Jacob, we're basically telling you to do everything opposite the way you're headed right now. And it's because we care for you. We care for your mom. We want her to have a great life. And currently, her loose retirement plan is going to end up stunting your growth for the next decade or two or three. And so we need to end this codependence right now. Otherwise, it's going to hurt both of you in the long run. So sorry to hear that, man. This is the Ramsey show.

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Why Refi is not licensed by the California Department of Financial Protection and Innovation. Why Refi is not authorized by the New York State Department of Financial Services to service any New York loans. Funding may not be available in all states. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Jade Warshaw. The number to call is 888-825-5225 this is your friendly reminder. As things warm up, people are traveling. It's springtime to come visit us at the Ramsey Solutions headquarters just south of Nashville, Tennessee. We were just out there greeting people from all over the country, sometimes the world.

That's right.

And we love to have you guys. So come by, you get free coffee, free baked goods. A lot of happy faces out there.

Will.

We come out every twice an hour and we'll take pictures. We'll sign a book if you want to do that. And it's a great time getting to meet people and hear a snippet of their story. It's a fun pit stop if you're coming through Tennessee.

Love it.

Amanda's up next in Honolulu, Hawaii. Amanda, what is going on? Aloha.

Aloha. Thank you so much for taking my call.

Sure.

How can we help?

My husband and I just got out of babysit two, so we're debt free and we're looking, yes, we're looking into the next step, which is a three or six month expenses saved up. My husband's in the military, so he gets a housing allowance, but we don't see it since we live in privatized military housing. I'm wondering if I should be including that number in our three to six month expenses or just go based off what comes out every month.

How much longer will you be in this scenario where you have that stipend?

His contract ends in 2027, so you.

Could look at it a couple of ways. I definitely would want the emergency fund to be based on your life, but if you know that that's going to be changing here very quickly, then I would base it on what, you know, your life is about to be. In this case, you've got three years. And so you might consider saying, okay, we're going to do six months or three months as is, and then just know when that time comes and you no longer get that benefit that you're going to have to up, you know, you're going to have to up your emergency fund based on what your new mortgage or rent payment is.

Okay. That's.

What are your current expenses?

They're between twelve and $1,500 a month.

Okay, so let's say we went on the high end of six months, 1500 bucks. So we're talking about nine grand for a fully funded emergency fund.

Yes.

And so I would just aim for that six months. And as your life changes, that may become three or four months of your new emergency fund, which still gives you a good buffer. So I like that sort of. You're kind of playing both sides there and it puts you in a good spot, especially as you think about, you know, deductibles for all your insurances. It just, I'd rather have you closer to the 10,000 mark regardless.

Absolutely. And can I ask a follow up question real quick?

Yeah.

So we're on, we live in Oahu, Hawaii right now. All our family is in the mainland. Should I be putting like, flight expenses into that emergency fund or a separate savings account just in case some family emergency happens?

That would be. I would call that separate savings because emergency fund is for emergencies. So if something out of the blue took place and you had to deal with it, you've got the emergency fund. But if, you know, hey, my family, they, they live a plane right away and I'm going to have to see them from time to time. I would have that a separate account that's basically just a sinking fund to know. Okay, we're, how often do we plan on visiting them? Um, three times a year.

And it's going to be $500 a pop. Well, that's going to be 1500 bucks we should have set aside.

Okay.

So you can build that in. I'm going to put $100 a month away for the next 15 months and we'll get there. In worst case, you can still dip into that emergency fund if there is a true family emergency.

Absolutely.

Awesome. Well, thanks for the call. And tell your husband thank you for his service. That's huge. I mean, people moving around all over the country now. There's worse places to be than Hawaii.

Absolutely.

If you're gonna go somewhere.

It's a good discussion on that. Three to six months of expenses. You know, I think that people don't know should they have three months or should they have six months? And so, you know, we always filter it through things like if you're married, both spouses working, are they stable jobs? Are they state, I mean, what job really is? But you know what I'm saying, like, it's different. If you have two jobs that's like.

A teacher and a postal service worker, pretty stable versus three months commission. Something where it's a, you know, startup.

Right.

Some of that tech world, or there's layoffs all the time.

Right. If I was single, though, and I had one of those, quote, stable jobs, I'd still do six months.

Oh, yeah, of course.

You want to consider the health of your family, the health of yourself, like.

The likelihood, chronic health conditions. You got to worry about that.

Yeah. So there's some things that you can filter through to figure out what really is most suitable for you. And then there might be a situation like, this is the way Sam and I are. I'm like, we both have stable jobs. There's two of us working, we don't have health concerns. I just like having six months of, I just want as much as possible. So there's that. And then there's a whole idea what you said, george, which maybe you have just a low cost lifestyle. You always want to make sure that your emergency fund is at least enough to cover your, you know, home insurance.

Deductible on your health insurance, your home insurance deductible, the car insurance deductible. All that can add up.

Yeah. So it's good to. Good to think about that.

Good questions. Thank you. All right, Tracy is up next in Sioux Falls. What's going on, Tracy?

Hey, guys. How you doing?

Doing great. How can we help?

Yeah. So here's our situation. It's a real estate question. About a year ago, we sold our home under a contract for deeds and purchased a different home. Well, two months into the contract review, it fell apart. They defaulted and we ended up having to dissolve that. So we went to plan b and we quickly got a renter. And the renters been doing a great job and we kind of bought that house at the right time for the right price in the sense that the renter is actually paying us about dollar 1100 more than what our mortgage is on that home. But we're coming up on a year and at the end of their one year lease, we'll have an opportunity, if we want to, to sell that home and put that equity towards our current house. Just wondering if you guys could weigh in for me, if that would be a wise choice. The little caveat here is that my husband is actually a pastor. And so with the higher mortgage that we have right now, we have been able to kind of capitalize on a higher mortgage payment and it's actually reduced our insurance premiums because we pay for those through the marketplace.

So just kind of wondering what your thoughts are now that we're at a point where we could sell or we could just continue on with the renter.

Okay. What's left on your current primary home mortgage?

So on the house that we live in right now, we have a more of 340,000.

Okay. And on the rental.

I'm sorry. No, no, no. I'm gonna. I'm gonna back up here. So on the house we're living in, that is four. Four.

Sorry, you broke up with us. Talk. Speak directly on the phone, see if that helps.

Okay. On the house that we're leaning in right now, we have a mortgage of 440,000. And on the rental home we have a mortgage of 65k.

Okay.

What other debt do you have?

Zero.

And you guys have a fully funded emergency fund?

We do, yep.

Do you have one for the rental home as well?

We did. We upped emergency fund. After we kind of chatted with our financial advisor, we upped that. So we're at like a 30,000. We have it funded for the two if we needed it.

Cool. And what's the rental worth if you sold it after the year was up?

Right now, it's about 420,000.

Okay, so you probably net around, I don't know, 320 out of the deal.

Yeah, right around 350 is what we figured, because we actually have somebody who's interested in purchasing it, so we wouldn't need to pay for, like, real estate fees or anything like that.

Okay, so what would this do? Just help pay down your current mortgage? Is that the goal here?

Yeah, exactly. So when we bought our home a year ago, we're at, like, a 6.1% interest rate. So kind of like, our nature is that it makes us feel a little bit itchy to have a high balance on our mortgage with a kind of high interest rate. But our long term goal has always been to have a rental property kind of in our portfolio. But it just sort of feels like a question of timing. Like, is it prudent for us to keep this right now?

I think you're asking yourself the right question. If I were in your shoes, it would be really important for me to live in a paid off residence before I had a rental property, especially a rental property that would be paid off soon. I mean, you only have 65,000 to go, if I heard you correctly. And so if I were you, I'd sell it. I'd take the 350, I'd put it on your mortgage. And that leaves you with less than 100,000 to pay off. And how quickly could you pay off a $90,000 mortgage? With you guys, income is the question. That's how I'd be formulating this thing. And my question, my. My thought is you'd be debt free, mortgage included, very quickly. Yeah.

So thanks for the call, Trish. Hope that helps. And the other option is you aggressively pay down the rental. That frees up that payment. And now we start attacking the mortgage. You hang on to the rental. I'm okay with both of those plans. But if you want to be debt free sooner, sell the rental. I don't think you'll regret it. That puts this hour of the Ramsay show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel, joined by Jade Warshaw. This hour, open phones at 888-25-5225 don't be scared. Give us a call. And if you're younger, your phone does make phone. I found out what there's a button that says phone. Hit that and then dial triple a, 825, 225. You can talk to us.

Interesting. Dial a number.

Yes. All y'all sending me the DM's with, like, nine paragraphs. I'm telling you, call the show. This is the best way to get your financial questions answered. That's what we're here to do. Nikki was brave enough to call in, and she made it. What's going on, Nikki? She's in Denver. How's it going?

It's going good. How about you guys?

Doing great. How can we help?

Okay, so my husband got a workers comp settlement for an injury, and it's about $100,000. And so we took. They just automatically put us in biweekly payments, so we're getting about $1,300 for it every two weeks for the next three years. We currently have a school loan and a car loan left in debt. And so our question is, should we take the full payout of the settlement, which would cost us 4% of the $100,000, or should we keep doing the biweekly payments? Because we could pay everything off and have our emergency fund if we took the full payout now versus, like, the bi weekly. So I'm kind of curious for you guys opinion.

It cost you 4% to take the full $100,000.

You're talking. You'll take a four grand hit in order to get 90. You'll get 96, essentially.

Correct.

I'm doing that.

We would lose a little bit. Yeah.

I feel like not only financially, but also emotionally, mentally, you know, you're gonna be in a very different spot.

Yeah. Plus. Yeah. For many reasons, because you'd also get used to having this pad in your budget. That's not real per se. And then when it's gone, it's like, oh, that's a total lifestyle shift. And if you can take that money, that 96,000, what can it clear? Tell us. Tell us all the debt and stuff.

So we have a $30,000 car loan. That's at a 6% interest rate, a school loan, that's 46,000. So a total of 76,000. If we budgeted, we could have those paid off both in about a year with the settlement, and then we'd still have about two years left getting that bi weekly. So.

But if you paid it off now, if you paid it off now, you'd pay off the car, the student loan, and you'd have 20,000 to put towards. Correct.

You have an emergency fund?

No, we've been kind of stuck on baby step two for several years now. So this is kind of like our jump of, like, we could get past all of it and then we would just have our mortgage left after that.

Yeah. What's the mortgage?

Mortgage. We have 300 left on that. We've been paying a little extra to it. So we have 2000 a month that we pay towards that.

Okay.

I love that. I. If. If I woke up in your shoes because of the situation you're in, I would 100% use that money. The $4,000 to me is very negligible in this whole equation. I'd pay off the debt, I'd put the rest aside, and whatever else you might need to, to call it, three to six months of expenses. And then I'd start baby step four, investing 15%.

That's what we're doing. So.

And the other piece of this, you have 20 grand at the end of this that you put in a high yield savings account. That'll make right now, 5%. That's a $1,000 in a year.

That's great.

That you would make.

Perfect.

And so that on top of the interest savings from not having to pay interest on these payments and freeing up those payments, which have you done the math on what that adds up to? What are those payments amount to each month for the student loan and car loan?

Just 900. We've been paying a little extra to the car.

Just 900. If someone gave me an extra $900, I'd be doing backflips.

Yes.

So think about it that way. You're getting a forever car payment. You're getting a forever $900 raise just by getting rid of these payments.

That's right.

Right.

So that on top of the high, you totally make sense. Okay. We've convinced her we're done. Our job here is done.

I want to caution you, Nikki. One thing I hear there's just been a couple of little things that you said that I'm like, listen, you're not doing the baby steps in order. You're kind of still doing your thing. I heard you say that you're already investing. I heard you say that you're already putting extra towards the mortgage. Do the plan the way the plan's written, and you're going to get further faster, because right now you're just trying to put money on all these things that are really important things and they are important to do, but you go further faster when you know what the priority is in the moment and you do that thing and then you go to the next one so just. Just a caution with that. Make sure now that you're officially in baby step four, make sure that you're investing 15%, no more, no less. Make sure that if you have kids, you're putting also putting a little towards kids. College, you and your husband can figure out how much that is. And then after that, you're putting extra towards the mortgage. So don't kind of say, well, we're doing the mortgage, so we're going to do less investing, or we're going to do, you know, more investing, so we don't have to do the mortgage.

Just make sure you're doing them in order. And if you have questions about that, we can also talk about that as well.

Okay, perfect. I know my husband has a. It's a mandatory 12% match, so we automatically have that regardless of whether we want to or not.

Great.

That's been going for the last.

Well, make sure you add your 3%. Make sure you're still investing up to 15%. And the reason we say that, you might think, well, Jade, there's the match. But if he loses that job and doesn't have the match anymore, you guys are not in the rhythm of investing 15% of your money. So we want to make sure that you're still doing yours. And everything else is gravy on a biscuit.

And if you have. If you guys have too much in your nest egg later on, you can call back and yell at us about how you have too much money. I'm okay. Good. Problem?

No, I think that is perfect. We put in the paperwork to do the buyout, so hopefully all of this will be done soon, but I appreciate your guys's advice and taking the time.

Yeah. Final question, how's your husband doing? It's a pretty serious injury.

Doing good. Yeah. He had two disks replaced in his neck. He's a firefighter, so, yeah, it ended up being a very lucky scenario. And it was awesome that his work took care of him. So he's in a good spot and doing well.

Good, awesome. Well, wishing you guys the best on this financial journey. That's a good problem to have.

Yeah.

Of an extra 100 grand just came about, and we just knocked out all of our debt, and that's our emergency fund, and we're ready to invest. So I'm like, leap, just emotionally, mentally, to leapfrog and not have this year of sort of just deep sacrifice.

Yeah.

And be at that spot. I'm doing it.

I think it's good. There is the piece of that, though, where you have to do an extra layer of work to make sure your behavior has actually shifts, you know? And that's why I kind of called her out on, hey, you know, you guys are having this windfall. Obviously, it was at a cost to her husband's health. But don't let that convince you that everything's, like, hunky dory. Cause there is some mental work and behavioral work, and, I mean, obviously sticking to the plan work that still has to be done, that she doesn't have. She did not have the benefit of walking through a process to get there.

Yes. When you build those habits and discipline, you have that deep sacrifice. It changes you. Your physiology changes. The way you look at money changes versus, hey, we just got a lump sum. Let's pay off the debt, and let's keep living on more than we make.

Right?

That's also a bad plan.

Yeah, it's interesting. There's that gradual change that happens mentally. And for her, it's going to be lickety split. She can do it, though. I have nothing but confidence in them. They seem like very.

Got a good head on the shoulders.

Yeah.

Oh, my goodness. Well, hey, the baby steps work, y'all. You gotta do them in order, but they work. Don't do ish. And then call and say, hey, your plan doesn't work. Well, you didn't do it. You gotta go all in on the plan, and it works every time you work it. It's called the Ramsey baby steps. If you want more info, go to ramsaysolutions.com, hit the get started button, and we will help you out. More of the Ramsay show right around the corner. We'll be right back. Welcome back to the Ramsay show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Jade Warshaw. We've got some fun events coming up. It's about to be game on. We got three events where you can experience Ramsay teachings live and in person with thousands of other people just like you. The big dog is total money makeover weekend. It's happening May 10 and 11th right here at the headquarters up the hill at our new event center. And it's two days. We're going to motivate you, fire you up, help you live the life you always wanted. So join us in Nashville. Leave the money stress at the door. All the Ramsey personalities are going to be there, including Jade, Dave Ramsey, doctor John Deloney, Ken Coleman, Rachel Cruz.

The whole gang love it. It's going to be fun.

The big dog.

Yeah, that's what it is. And then just about ten days later, we have a virtual event. It's Dave Ramsey's investing essentials for two nights. It'll be about 2 hours each night. I'll be joining Dave. He's going to unleash his personal playbook on investing. On real estate investing. We're going to help you unpack some of the basics about investing, deep dive on 401 ks and mutual funds and some other investing options you may not know about to help you invest and build wealth with confidence. So you can join us for that one as well, wherever you are.

Here's your challenge, George.

Uh oh. What is it?

First you said big dog, then you said unleash. We've got it. We've got a pet theme going. So let's get it with money and marriage.

You think of this one money and marriage getaway happening this fall. So you got time to plan for that one. And don't, don't be barking up the wrong tree if you miss out on the tickets for this one. Okay? They're gonna, they're going quick. Money in marriage has become its own brand and event, and people love this. It was an incredible event last year. Jade and I both spoke. I don't know if they'll invite us back this year. I hope they do. But this is a weekend away with your spouse to focus on your marriage as it relates to your money. Of course, with great teaching from doctor John and Rachel, real life answers to your hard questions. They, they don't shy away.

No, they don't.

And the scary stuff, they're going to get up in your business to help you win in your money and marriage, you walk away with tools you need to build that deeper connection and win with money together. So if you want to attend any of those events in person, the virtual one, go to ramsaysolutions.com. Learn more get your tickets today. Start putting this in the budget, the travel, the transportation. Get a ticket for a friend or a spouse that tells you, you know what, I believe in you. I believe in our marriage. I want you to win with building wealth. And that's a great gift to give right there. Ramsaysolutions.com events. All right, let's get to the phones. Manuel joins us in Grand Rapids. What's going on, my friend?

How we doing? Good.

How are you?

Good. I just have a couple of questions. My first one is, I am a father of two and a husband, and my wife has been a stay at home mom for about a year and six months now. And I'm just trying to figure out what's the best way to bring that conversation up of going back to work, because we're a family of four on $43,000.

Yikes. How old are the kids?

One in six months. But we have a lot of family and friends in our church and in our family that would watch them for little to none.

Uh huh. So you're making 43,000. And what. What type of work do you do?

I do environmental work. So I took this job because I got laid off from our last job with a guy that I go to church with, and it was just, like, a spur in the moment, and I can't afford to miss, like, any work, so I was just.

What'd you make it your last job? What'd you make it your last job?

56.

Okay. So you know that you have the potential to earn more, but right now, it's just, I got to take anything until I get the job. Right? If I understand.

Yes.

Okay. Now, your wife, what was she doing before she started staying home with the kids?

She's a cosmetologist.

And what was she earning every month?

Um, I I think, like, $15 to $2,000 a month. So she's hourly and commission.

Okay. So she was earning 2000 a month. So how much debt do you guys have?

I I brought in the debt of a truck of. It was 31, but I've got it down to 27,000.

Okay. What else?

All the debt that we have. That's it.

Oh, this is solvable. What's the truck payment?

530 a month.

So, if you had an extra 530 a month, would things be better? Would she be able to continue staying home?

Things are just, like, super tight. Like, I pay 530 for a truck, and then my interest are not my interest. My insurance is 418.

Mm hmm.

But you're.

If you got rid of both of those things, let's say you sold the truck, now you got basically a $1,000 freed up every month.

Uh huh.

Would that fix your financial situation? And let's say you got your income up a little bit, too. I'm just wondering, are there other paths here? I would rather you sell the truck than your wife have to go back to work. If she's truly wanting to stay home.

She.

She really is wanting to stay home. But I've just. I've brought up the conversation just because of how tight it is right now.

The question is. Here's my question from her perspective. Did you guys speak about what the plan would be once she had the babies? Was it like, hey, we're gonna have these babies. I'm gonna stay home, and you were like, I'm good with that. So is the plan changing, or did this kind of happen by default? She had the babies and realized she likes being home, and now she stayed home, and you're kind of like, hey, we never discussed this. Which scenario is it?

We. We discussed it, but it wasn't like a. For, like, her be a stay at home mom for like a forever time.

Okay.

Like a timeline. And then, I mean, and what was the timeline? We had our daughter.

Okay.

It was like we had been together for two years. We've been married a year, but we were together for two years. And then we had our son. And then three months later, she got pregnant again with our daughter. So they're eleven months apart, and it's.

Just like, and are you guys on a budget right now? Are you working a budget, or is this just kind of chaos right now?

I would say we have a written budget, but we don't really stick to it. So it's kind of just like chaos.

What I would say, I want you guys to get on everydollar, and if you don't already have it, Christian will pick up and make sure you guys have it. Or at least go to everydollar.com jade, and get. I want you on the premium version because I want you to have all of this in your arsenal here. I want you guys to sit down and do the budget tonight. I want you to go over it together, and I want you to go over two versions. One version, which is as it is today, and for both of you to see, here's what it's going to take. If you want to stay home and it work, here's what it's going to take. And then the other one is, here's what it would look like if you worked x amount of hours, because I do think there could be a happy median in between, um, her staying at home and working. It doesn't necessarily mean that she's got to go back to a 40 hours a week situation, but you guys have to run the numbers and each of you see it and see what your options are, because I feel like there's three options.

Stay at home, do some kind of part time situation, or she goes back full time and the numbers are going to tell you guys what works best for you.

We've talked about that, and we've had a couple of people tell us, like, yeah, we'll watch them, like, three or four times. Three or four times a week. And then she just works because we only have one car at the moment. The truck so it's just the truck only card.

Okay.

What's the truck worth?

Yeah, sold every thousand.

Why is it only worth 17? Did you roll negative?

Equity book says yes. I had a. I had a. I had a Kia before this, and we had. We were having another kid, and we were just, like, so certain on getting a bigger car, and. And so I was literally, like, four payments off from paying the key off. So I sold it for, like, three or $4,000 more than what I owed it. So then I paid off what I owed, and then all the money that I got back from that, I poured into the truck.

Well, not necessarily poured. You dripped it into the truck and took most of our loan, let's be honest.

Yeah.

So then you bought way too much truck manual. Way too much.

Oh, I know. And I regret it every day.

And I would rather see you sacrifice to get rid of this truck instead of sacrificed to harm your wife's well being and her dream. And so that might mean you go side hustle your way for the next few months, scrape together ten grand, sell the truck to get rid of the loan, and then you scrape together another five and get a beater car that gets you around for now.

Well, yeah, I thought about that. And then I also was talking to my wife when we were doing numbers last night, was, if I like doordash for nine months every day after work, I would be able to pay off my truck in six to nine months, depending on how aggressive I want to do this. So that's like, we're just throwing out options.

I'd also look at getting a different full time job where you're making 56 or more. Again, I don't want you to comfortable here. Just side hustling. You can get your core income up and then side hustle. This speeds up the whole process.

And start looking around your house and seeing what you can sell. Look at everything. Suddenly everything has value. Something's going on. Facebook, marketplace is going on Olio. It's going everywhere. So get this thing cleaned up quickly.

I would make some deep sacrifices and revisit this conversation six months from now and see if it's still the right move for her to go back to work. But I wouldn't just do it today.

Not with a six month old.

That puts this segment in the books. We'll be back right around the corner. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Jade Warshaw. The number to call is triple 8825-5225 headed to San Francisco. Up next to talk to Nathan what's going on, Nathan?

Hey, guys, thanks for taking my call. So I really am seeking some financial advice. I'm originally from the Nashville area, and I've been living and working out here in San Francisco for about eight years. And my wife and I, we kind of know that even if we could afford a house in San Francisco or the Bay Area, there's no point in us spending a million dollars on a two bedroom house. It's just not, you know, we come from somewhere else and we see what that money can get you in other parts of the world. So we're thinking about buying a house in Nashville while we continue to live here and work and try to pay it off or rent it out. And right now we make about 160,000 before taxes. Our monthly bills is probably about 2600. I have 30,000 in student debt still, and my wife is going to graduate from university in May, and we've been able to save and pay $25,000 a year. So she'll graduate with no debt.

Way to go.

Yeah. Thank you. So we're just trying to figure out, like, we kind of know San Francisco is not our final destination. We know that we'll end up moving. And the other part that sort of complicates this is my wife is from Germany originally, so we flirt with the idea of moving to Europe, but I, as an American, like, I really want to have a place to call home. And we have $20,000 saved up right now. And the plan is, once she graduates in May, we'll start using any extra money to go ahead and pay off my student loans, the remaining 30,000, and within the next maybe two, three years, I think we could save up like $80 to $90,000 to use as a down payment for maybe like a $400,000 house in Nashville. And I've got friends in there. I've got family. I would try to rent it to one of them and just see if they could pay the mortgage, or I'd get some property company to try and help take care of that for us as well.

Is this.

Well, I don't know if that's.

So you'd buy the house and go to Germany for a while, or you'd buy the house and stay in San Francisco for a while.

Stay in San Francisco? Yeah. I have a pension on my work, and the longer I stay, the better it is.

Okay. I think that you guys have some choices to make here. I would not. To broadly answer your first question. I would not buy a house in Nashville. Rent it out for years until you're ready to move. I wouldn't do that for many reasons. One is which one in which I would. Wouldn't own a rental someplace where I didn't live. Two, I wouldn't want somebody living in my house for four to six years, and then me coming home to sloppy seconds, and it's my first rent, my first house ever. And then two, I just think that you're not ready to buy a house yet, and so you guys have to decide what life you want, and if you truly want a life in Nashville, I would be figuring out, what does that mean for us to make this happen after May, like, after she graduates, how quickly could we move our life? What kind of work do you do?

Yeah, well, I work as a technician in a hospital owned by the University of California, and she's going to graduate with an international business degree.

Can you both do your work in other states? It sounds like it.

We could, but the compromise would be that if I were to go work at Vanderbilt, I would probably make $25 to $30 less an hour.

Okay, but you're also living in a different market, and so the reason that you earn more in California is because it's a more expensive state. So there is some balance there with the wages.

No income tax here in Tennessee, as you know.

I know.

And also lower cost of living. So I think it might be a wash, is all I'm saying.

Yeah, you know, that's. That's true. The thing that I. We're super fortunate, you know, I. To the house that we rent now, I actually put my own listing on Craigslist and said, hey, this is who we are. This is how much we'll pay. So we have a. We have a two bedroom here in San Francisco, and we paid 1900. And that includes utilities, which is, like, unheard of.

I mean, that's like, how are you only having 2600 a month total in expenses in San Francisco? That's crazy.

That's excellent.

But that's not where you want to be, and it's a rental.

So everything you've described is just like golden handcuffs. Like, well, I got to stay for the pension and I got to stay for the rent, but I don't want to live here. That's what I heard.

Yeah, yeah. Essentially. Essentially, I can't. You know, I can't justify it in my own mind to, like, you know, what would a half a million dollar house get you in Tennessee versus, honestly, right now?

It wouldn't get you much.

I don't know.

If you've been to Nashville lately, man, but it is tough cookies around here for a $400,000 house, but it's going.

To get you more than it would in San Francisco.

Yeah. And that's the thing, too, is like, I think, like, okay, I've got this California money, and I'm still living on a really reasonable, like, cost of living month to month. And so is it smarter to me to, like, use this California money and invest it while, you know, the market is lower than what it will be in potentially five to ten years when we move back home, or I think.

The baby steps still apply here. And that means, you know what? The 20k savings we're going to take down to one. We're going to throw 19 at the student loans. We're going to get rid of these student loans faster. When she graduates, she'll help beef up the emergency fund, and then we'll start saving up for that down payment, whether that's in California or Germany or Nashville. Just start stacking up cash.

Got it. Got it.

And then when you're ready to make the move, you just move. And you don't let your. That career, that job, that rent price dictate the rest of your life. That's my worry.

Yeah, definitely don't let your pension be.

The dictator here, because, I mean, you're not that old. How old are you?

31.

Oh, yeah.

You got plenty of time and life to invest and create your own pension through nest eggs.

Yeah, it's so, you know, there's so much noise from the outside. Like, you hear people talk and they say, okay, well, you're not going to have Social Security by the time you graduate.

Yeah, but you. You have a job and you make plenty good money. Your wife does, too. And the quicker you do these baby steps like George laid out, the quicker you'll be investing 15% of your income every single month, and that's going to stack up. You're a young guy. You've got a lot of time on your side, and I would not be concerned about that. And to your point, a lot of it is noise. So many people talk and they're not doing diddly or they hate their job.

And they're like, well, I gotta have my pension. I'm like, that's not who you want to be.

Yeah, George and I know the stats. We know the stats. And a lot of people are not walking the walk. They're just yapping. So don't let that faze you.

Yeah, definitely. All right, well, thanks, you guys. I appreciate that.

Yeah, man. Absolutely. Best of luck coming back home here in Nashville.

Love it.

Stephanie's up next in Milwaukee. What is going on, Stephanie?

Hey, guys. Thank you for having me on. So my husband and I are wanting to get a new car for safety reasons, and I just kind of wanted to talk to you guys to see if it sounds rational or we're just trying to buy new cars. We want it.

Tell us about it.

Could be both.

So we live in Wisconsin, where it gets really snowy. So half a year. It's kind of difficult driving around if you don't have four wheel drive when it's all icy and snowy.

I feel that.

And then we also have a one year old daughter. So Stacy has become, you know, more of a concern, especially driving her around in that type of weather. We have been sharing a car for about three years, so we do have one nice, reliable car, and we both worked from home, but now my husband is working outside of the home. So the other car that we have is a kind of an older car that I don't feel super comfortable in, and that's a car I would need to use to take the baby around.

When you say older, I want to know details.

So it's a 2000 Toyota van, but it does only have 75,000 miles on it.

Okay. And it just doesn't have four wheel drive. That's the only thing.

Yeah. And just with it being, you know, 25 years old, it just. There's a lot of rust on it, and it just. It feels kind of unsafe, like something could break at any point.

Okay, so tell us now the financial snapshot. Tell us you've got the nicer car. Is that one paid off?

It is not. It is a 2021 Toyota Rav, 445 thousand miles. 15,000 still owed on the loan.

Okay. 15,000 on that one. And then, of course, this older van is paid off. Please believe.

How much money do you have?

Well, we do have a good income, but we do have some debt we're trying to pay off, and we do have a bit in an emergency fund, too.

Okay. What's the income and what's the debt? Total debt.

Income. Income is about 200,000 a year between the two of us.

How much total debt do you have? Real quick?

About 100,000. Most is student loans.

Okay. Oh, my goodness. And you have money saved. You said how much saved?

25,000 emergency funds.

Okay. It's not really an emergency fund that should have gone towards the debt if you were to sell the car, if it really is in bad shape and you could sell it and maybe get a couple thousand for it and put another couple thousand for it. I'm fine with you spending $5,000 to upgrade this car, but I wouldn't spend any more than that. I keep it.

I think mama drives the Rav four. He sells the van and gets him a little beater car to get around it. Yeah, that's what I would do. Mom always gets the nicer car. That's the rule in our house.

Hey, guys, it's Rachel Cruz, and I'm beyond excited to tell you that my new kids book, I'm glad for where I am, is available for pre order. And there's more. When you pre order, you'll have access to a live event that I'm doing from my home. Storytime with Rachel. Join me as I read this new story about gratitude and the gift of home to you and your kids. Plus, we'll do a live q and a, so go to ramsaysolutions.com store and pre order your copy today. That's ramsaysolutions.com store.

Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm George Camel, joined by Jade Warshaw. Open phones at 8825-5225 well, Jade, it is financial literacy month, and one of the ways we're celebrating that is taking questions from students at high schools that are teaching our foundations and personal finance curriculum. And today's question comes from a student in Carrollton high school. What do they have to say?

Yeah. He says, how do I find motivation to budget when I can't find it? That's a good question.

It's like car keys. I just don't know where I put that motivation. I don't know where I left it.

I love that he's thinking about this. You know, in high school, I. I.

Didn'T have motivation at 16 to budget.

Not to budget. I mean, do homework, practice volleyball. Not budgeting was not in my. My thoughts there. But I love that he's thinking this way. You know, if you can get in your mind very early on the three things that you can really do with money, which is give it, save it, spend it. And if you can do that in the proper ratio at that age, I think that you're ahead of the game. Like, if you can say, okay, I'm working at McDonald's, or I'm working at Kroger, I'm bringing home my minimum wage, and I'm going to give some of it. For me, that was in the form of tithe. So I was given my 10% tithe, and then I'm saving some of it because, listen, I want a car. Like, I want to have a ride when the time comes. And I know college is coming up, so if I can save a big percentage of that. And then, of course, keeping aside some of it to spend and have fun with, you know, when you work hard, you do want to see some of the fruit of your labor. So, honestly, Carlton, if you can do that, you are ahead of the game, my friend.

Yeah. The way I look at this is showering. How do I find the motivation to shower? You don't. You just get up and you shower. It's just part of being an adult.

But he's not an adult yet.

Well, you know, but he probably has, you know, there's some people in the picture. Maybe he wants to go on a date, ask someone. A prom.

Well, then. Showered up? Yeah.

And so that's how I see budgeting. It's just a habit and discipline you want to build. It's not this thing. Like, I got to find the motivation today. You go, what are my goals and what do I need to do to get there? And the budget becomes a part of that. So if you don't have income and you don't have expenses, then a budget isn't going to do much for you because it's hypothetical. But if you're working and you've got some income, you have some savings goals. I got to save up for the summer camp or that first car. Well, then the budget becomes very important.

Yeah.

And it just becomes a scoreboard of how we're doing and if we're on track. So that's a better way to look at it versus this. I need the motivation, Jade.

Yeah, that's true.

It's.

It's really the means to the end to get the life we want, whether that's a vehicle or a class ring or.

You know, when I was working at 1617, I was a knucklehead. I was spending every paycheck at my retail jobs and nothing to show for it. And I wish someone had showed me the investment calculator. Hey, if I just put $20 away today at 16, what will that be when I'm 66, then I'm going, okay, there's my motivation.

Yeah, no, I had no. I wouldn't even known the words that were coming out of your mouth when.

I was in high school, I was like, let's go to hot topic, man. Let's do this thing, hot topic. Let's hit the movies, hot topic. Thank you for that.

You're welcome.

I like the combination of hot topic.

Plus the hot pocket.

It was good. It's very high school.

Meant for those that understand. Jade speaks in parables. I love that. Let's get to the phone lines. Adam is in Ann Arbor, Michigan. What's going on, Adam? How can we help?

Hey, George. Hello, Jay. Thank you for taking my call. Appreciate it.

Sure.

All right, real quick, the question is a straightforward one, but not a simple one. Do you think I should sell my house in order to pay off the majority of my debt?

Okay, let's hear more.

It's a big question. So give us your financial picture. How much do you make? What's your total debt load? Are you married?

Make 68,000 a year. Take home pay would be about 4000 a month. Single? Don't make enough money for anything else. Debt is 90,000.

What kind of debt is that?

Two debt consolidation loans, a car note and a small credit card.

How much is the car?

The car is 27,000.

And what do you, what's it worth?

If I look at Kelly blue book, best guess, 20,000.

Okay, so 7000 upside down.

Okay. And what's left on the mortgage and what do you owe?

Mortgage is 148.

148. And what is it worth looking at?

The offer of comparables offer I got into Opendoor. I think I could reasonably get 240 for it.

When did you buy it?

2021.

Okay. How long have you been working the baby steps?

About three months.

And what's causing you to say I can't pay off this debt, I got to sell my house?

Looking at the budget, looking at the income versus expenses and realizing that they're not quite, that they're not balancing out like they should.

So tell me what percentage, tell me what you're paying every month for your mortgage. I want to see where the percentage lies.

This year, 1100 per month.

Okay.

So that's fine.

I don't think this is on fire, Adam. I think you can pay this debt off within about two years if you can get that income up with a side hustle. And that's kind of the parameter. If this would take you ten years to pay off and selling the house would help clear that much faster, I'd say this may be worth selling, but the monthly payment is about 25% of your take home pay. That's a green flag to me. You got 90k. If you can put 45 toward it per year, it's done in two years.

And rate on your mortgage, that's going to be hard to go back on.

Yeah. That's the hesitation. Yes. To be sure, but I would pause.

On selling this, and I would aim to pay this off in two years, and then that becomes the gap to fill with income and getting your expenses down to create enough margin to do that.

45,000 a year. That's a lot.

It is a lot, but that means we have a 68k income. We're going to go find 25k worth of side hustles. That's two grand a month in side hustle. Can we find that?

Yes. I'm helping you out. The answer is yes.

Let me remind you, Adam, you're single. Now's the time, my friend.

Yes, Adam.

All right, so I need to find a.

What do you do full time for work? We'll help you.

Logistics manager.

Okay, so you're in logistics, you're working 40 hours a week.

Yes.

Any opportunity for overtime?

No.

Can you do any consulting with that?

I don't have an experience with that, so that would take. I would not have any clients for that, so I'm gonna say no.

Well, I mean, you're in logistics. You have experience with that. You don't have experience doing consulting for logistics. But I'm just saying, are there any opportunities using your current skill set? And beyond that, you have a driver's license. We can always look to, you know, doordash, uber, retail jobs, serving whatever it is to go make, you know, $20 an hour. You're talking about a big sacrifice by selling your house. So I'm shocked that you're willing to sell the house to make that huge sacrifice, but going, uh, side hustle.

Hey, I'm. I'm a chime in here. I think that you were hoping that there was an easier way out here, and now George and I are telling you your opportunity looks a lot like work. And now it's like. And it's, you know, you can wander into debt, but you can't wander out. So there is this part where you're going to have to get very intentional. It's going to make a lifestyle change. You're going to feel it over a long term with the sell of the house. It's like you feel it right away, and then you move into your rental or whatever, and you're like, okay, my life is pretty much the same, but with what we're talking about is two years of real sacrifice, and you're gonna be better for it in the end. But I don't want you to be afraid of work. You know, I don't want you to be afraid to say, yeah, for the next two years, I gotta make 2000 extra dollars a month. And I don't want you to be afraid of the number $2,000, because when you really look at it, I mean, if you took your extra time a couple of nights a week, you took your Saturdays and Sundays, and you said, at the very least, okay, I'm going to do Amazon delivery, I'm going to do Instacart or whatever.

You know, kind of those, those go to side hustles are you're going to find the $2,000. You're a single guy. You don't, you know what I'm saying? Unless you have pets to get home to, you've got a lot of time on your hands. And that's a blessing, my friend.

It seems like a lot for 20 hours.

That's, listen, it's your life. It's your life. If you don't want to do it, nobody's going to, you know, put you in a headlock to do it. But you called us saying that you want to get out of debt, and so we're going to tell you what it takes to get there.

The house truly isn't your problem. I wouldn't have done in that order, but that's not the problem. It's not. As we went $90,000 into debt making 68. Now you can sell the car and get a beater car. That's another option to help speed this up. And Adam, let me tell you, head to this website, George Camel with a k.com side hustlequiz that will help you figure out the right side hustle for you based on your time and your skill set. And America, I hope that helps you. George Camel with a k.com side hustlequiz that puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. Thank you to Jade Warshaw, my co host. All the folks in the booth keeping the show afloat. And you, America, will be back before you know it. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, love and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel, joined by Jade Warshaw. This is your show, so give us a call at 888-25-5225 and we'll dig into your life and your money in front of America. But don't be scared.

Don't be scared.

We're kind, we'll treat you well. And Mike is up first this hour in Lynchburg, Virginia. What's happening, Mike?

Hey, George, how you doing?

Hey, Jade.

Hey, what's up? Better than we deserve, my friend. How can we help?

Awesome.

Good to hear. Before I get started, George, I gotta say, just so you know, like, I gotta come clean next to Dave, obviously. I think you're my favorite Ramsay host. I love your YouTube channel.

Listen, $5 on Venmo America. That's what you'll get. Thank you for that kind endorsement, Mike.

Absolutely. Thank you. So I just had a quick question. I'm 17 years old. I work full time, and my company offers a 3% match. Ira. Simple Ira, 3% match. And we're just, I just, I've been contributing to that for a while. Right now, I'm only at 3%, but I am working my way up, hopefully very soon to that 15% Dave recommends. And basically, the financial advice or the financial advisor and the financial company that my company goes through, it's all provided. And so I was just talking to him the other day on the phone, and we were getting my investment set up and everything, and I wasn't exactly sure what to tell him because I knew basically the Ramsey principles on investing, but I'm not an expert on it by any means. So what he told me, when I explained how I'd like to, I told him basically, I wouldn't have to do it right now. But what I wanted to get to eventually was the 25%, all the four categories, growth, growth in income, aggressive and international. And so what he told me is that basically, he agreed with all that for the most part, he thought the income was pretty much unnecessary at my stage.

And the three stocks he recommended I put it in to start was Vanguard's VTI, Charles Schwab's Scha, and Vanguard VXUs, which he said would break down in my categories. The way I was explaining it, basically is 60% in growth, 20 and really aggressive growth, and 20% in international. So I just wonder what y'all thoughts are on that and how I should go forward.

Yeah. Well, first of all, you're one of the sharpest 17 year olds I've talked to in a while. I thought this was like a 45 year old man calling in based on your maturity and wisdom and communication skills. So way to go. What are you making at this job?

So it's commission based on? So I'm not exactly sure. This is my first year working on a new commission. This will be my first full year, but I estimate by the time the year's over, I'll be making about 35.

Okay. Are you still in school, or did you just kind of skip to the workforce? What's your plan there?

I graduated so I was actually homeschooled. I graduated just after I turned 16, and then I've been working full time since September of 2022.

Wow. And what kind of work is this?

This is house washing.

House washing.

Exterior soft and power washing.

Cool. All right. And we're talking about investment, event investments here. You've got 3% going in. And you said the financial advisor advised these kinds of funds?

Yes, sir.

Okay. And who is this through?

It is through Raymond James, I think, is the financial firm.

Okay, cool. Well, I mean, truthfully, you're going to find a lot of the same funds. So the funds that Dave recommends, the mutual funds, versus some of these index funds that the financial advisor is telling you about, they make up when you actually look at what's inside of them. It's a lot of the same companies. So at the end of the day, it may not make that big of a difference when you talk about the growth in income versus the growth versus aggressive growth. So I wouldn't worry too much about that. The key here is that you're diversified and that you're not in single stocks. And what hes talking about is essentially a total market index fund like youd find in the S and P 500, which is largely what I have in my mutual funds. Theres not a huge difference. Now, the difference is the mutual funds that are actively managed have fund managers that are hand selecting some stocks and different balances of those stocks in order to create a, hopefully higher returns. Gotcha. But at this stage of the game, the funds that are chosen are not going to be the difference maker for you.

It is your savings rate and your income. So I would be focused on that versus losing sleep over what funds you're in. I want to see you get up to that 15% if you're debt free with an emergency fund. Are you at that stage?

Yes, sir. Yes. That's very helpful, actually. On that note, I had a very similar question that went right along with it, if I can ask that.

Okay.

Uh, yeah, basically, yeah. I've, I've got the, the daughter emergency fund. Never had any debt. Um, I've got, you know, I'm driving old, an old beater, 92 Ford Ranger.

Wow.

Um, yeah, it's before you were born, my friend.

Sorry, that's before you were born. That's impressive.

Yeah, it's like double my age, but. So, yeah, I'm done with the emergency fund. So basically, I've gotten through baby step three a. So my question is now, should I be focusing more, do you think, on baby step three b, you know, saving up for the down payment or more on baby step four, which is working up to 15% in investments. Which comes first in your opinion?

Well, you're 17, you're living at home. Yes. This is just Jade talking. I probably would not purchase a home until I've spent time living on my own in a rental type of situation, whether it's you're renting a house from someone or you're renting an apartment, I just think it's good to get your feet wet before you jump all the way into the pool.

Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I definitely agree with that. I was just wondering if I get started now. I've been putting down a little bit each month just for a while, like just in a cash envelope, savings for a while, just to start building it up. And I figured maybe five years down the road, after I've been renting for three years or whatever, I might have a nice down payment saved up. But it's going to be a little bit harder to do that if I'm trying to get the investing all the way up to 15% at the same time.

You have the ability again, technically, you're in baby step three b or baby step four, so you can do both of them simultaneously. You can pause baby step four for a while and save up for a down payment. You have that option. But what I think is most advantageous for you to focus on right now is your career path. That would be. I feel like you're very focused on money, which I think that's great. I love that you're thinking towards the future and trying to make good choices. So don't get me wrong there, but I would be focusing a lot of time on. Okay, what's my career path? What do you see yourself doing, Mike, in the next, even ten years from now?

Well, I love the job I'm at currently, and there's recently some opportunities to where there may be more room for growth than I had initially anticipated. I'm not exactly sure I'll be long, how long I'll be at this. But I am also saving up because I would like to get the Ramsey financial coach training at the very least get to do on the side, and then maybe eventually full time.

So what I want for you is I want for you to be able to talk about your career future in the same depth, in detail that you were talking about how your investments are diversified. You were able to tell us exactly what the name of the funds were, which I think is great. You were able to tell us the percentage, Raymond James, all of that. I want you to be able to tell me that about your career path. So that's your homework. That's my assignment for you.

Get that income up because 15% of 30 is cool, that's $4,500. But 15% of 90, that's triple that. Now we're talking. And so focus on the income. And I believe you have the habits and discipline in place that when the income goes up, you're just going to build exponential wealth. And we are cheering you on. Hang on the line. I'm going to send you our friend Ken Coleman, his get clear career assessment and hook you up with his new book coming out called find the work you're wired to do. So hang on the line. Christian will pick up. We'll gift you that to help you on the career side.

Hey, teachers, your commitment to your students is next level. Seriously, you guys are heroes. During financial literacy month, we're celebrating you and all your hard work. We want to send you on a trip. That's right. Thanks to our friends at Ramsey Education, we're excited to announce the Ramsey teacher appreciation giveaway. One lucky teacher will win a $5,000 vacation to anywhere they want to go. And two more teachers will each win a $3,000 vacation of their choice. No purchase necessary to win. The giveaway ends April 30, so enter now. If you're a teacher, go to ramsaysolutions.com teacher. That's ramsaysolutions.com teacher.

Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Jade Warshaw. The number to call is triple 8825-5225 as you're listening or watching, would you do us a quick favor? It's totally free to you. Only takes a moment. Share the show. Here's how you do that. Simple ways you can engage. You can hit the subscribe button, hit the follow button. Wherever you're watching, leave us a kind review, share it with a friend, word of mouth, click the share button. All of that helps not give us more affirmation and validation. Lord knows Jay doesn't need any more of that. But what it does is it helps the algorithm spread this to more people who maybe haven't seen the show. And that's what we want to do here, is spread the hope. America needs healing right now, Jade. And we hope to be a small part of that by helping people have hope with their finances, with their life, with their relationships, with their careers. It's a dark time out there, and we hope to be a tiny beacon little light of light out there. That's what we try to do. And you guys are a big part of that.

You are the marketing plan. Thank you for all you do to help us spread the word. Sarah is out there in Eugene, Oregon. What's going on, Sarah?

Hi, George and Jade. I would love to get your advice on what job or school next steps would give me the best ROI and financial position. Or maybe that's not even the best question for me to be asking. Maybe it's something else that I should be asking first.

Where's Ken Coleman when you need.

I know. So what's your conundrum here? What was driving this call today?

For the first time in my life, I feel like I've got a whole bunch of options. For the last two and a half years, I've always worked in some type of clerical administrative. But for the last two years I've been working as a court clerk and loving being in the whole legal system and being the connection point between justice and our small little communities and like, restoring the hope in our judicial system. Working beautiful.

You found work that matters to you, right?

I'm considering going to law school. I'm 46 and I'm feeling the pressure of if I were to go to law school next fall, I would be passing the bar at 50 years old. But maybe it gives me a way to do even more of what I love to do, helping people within our legal system. Or maybe I should just be focusing on moving up into more management positions within the court system instead of dumping $90 to $155,000 into another degree.

Well, let's talk about it further. I have two questions that drummed up from what you said. The first question I had was, what is it about being a lawyer that makes you like, that's what I need to do. What part of the job is it? And then if you were to say, no, it's me working up further in management in the court system without getting that degree. What part of that idea makes you go, yes, that's the thing I need to do.

Yeah, well, I love being in the courtroom. Being a court clerk right now, I'm making sure that all the details happen the way they're supposed to, but I don't have to make the decision. But I don't make a lot of money. And so being a lawyer would be another way to stay in the courtroom happenings each day, but make more money potentially and get more time to individually talk with people rather than right now, I'm more just like a background stage.

Manager okay, so what would it cost you? Have you done some research? What would it cost you to pursue this? Let's just play it out a little.

Bit and just background. My current net worth is 380,000. Most of that's tied up in my home equity.

Okay.

And so these numbers, as I'm sharing them with you, I was a little. I was thinking I'd make a lot more money and get to do more what I love. And then when I ran out the numbers, you know, over the course of 20 years, I was coming out with an end result within $200,000 either way. So.

Yeah, but there. There are two equations here. Like, we'll. We'll hear the numbers, but everything can't be about dollars. Like, there's also got to be some part of it that's like, yeah, I'm doing work. I love to. So let's hear, you know, do you have debt right now?

Only my mortgage.

Okay, so just the mortgage. And how much do you own the mortgage?

115,000.

Okay. How much do you currently earn? What's your current income gross?

It's 51,000. So I'm netting 40,000.

Okay. And are you currently investing 15%?

I'm almost there. I will have my full emergency fund saved by this December, and everything's working fine so that I can switch that right over into investing 15% and having a little bit more to still.

Do you have anything in investments right now?

I do. I lost my husband seven years ago, so there's still about $60,000 sitting in trust stocks. On top of, I've got 83,000 in retirement specific accounts.

Okay.

Okay. So the numbers I would want to know about, Sarah, are December comes, you get your emergency fund saved, you start saving 15%. That's when you see how much margin you actually have to put towards possibly cash flowing. You know, a state school or something that you can do night school. I know my brother went to law school. He did night school and came out on the other side. He's a judge now. Yeah. So I know it's possible in Oregon, I wouldn't.

The only way to do night school is I'd have to do it online. And so I've been looking at a lot of different schools. My whole idea, because I don't want to, of course, go into debt to do this. The only way I see to do that would be to sell the house.

And then I don't want you doing that.

I don't think I would do that. Really, the only reason. Because at the end of the day. Here's the parameters that I and George chime in. The parameters that I'd want to make sure. Okay, you're 46. I want to make sure that you're still retiring with a paid for home and you've come so far. I would hate for you to have to start over again with a higher, because real estate has gone up significantly. I'd hate for you to have to start over with a higher interest rate, with a bigger loan and further to plow through. You've made a lot of headway there, so in that way, I wouldn't want you to have to go backwards. I'd be looking for a way that you can maybe earn now more. So maybe you start the path that you had said as a secondary choice, which is, hey, I'm going to work my way up this clerical court situation and see how far I can go. Not only will you possibly earn more money, but you're also going to get a feel and a taste for that work. And you might find out, you know what, I love this.

This scratches the itch. I don't have to do the law school thing or you might get further up the ladder and go, okay, I'm making more money. It's not scratching the itch. But since I'm making more money now, I can afford to cash flow my night school or my online school.

Well, so on working up within my current court system, the way to work up and earn more money is to go into management, which pulls me out of the courtroom. So that's.

Have you looked into all the options in that field? I mean, is there a paralegal position that might fit the bill here?

That would, yeah, that, that could be another possibility that I haven't looked into yet.

Okay, so I would just explore all the options and write them all down. Here's all my options, here's what the salaries are, and then here's the path to get there. As far as education goes, then it becomes, okay, what are all the past education? Which one can I cash flow and then which one can I do the soonest? And you might decide, you know what, I'm okay being a paralegal. It'll get my income up to 60 or 70. I'm going to pay off the house. I'll be get to retire without the headache of going through law school and being years from now. And that might be a path. So I would, I think you're in the exploration phase still, and I don't want you making any big financial moves other than following these baby steps. Get the emergency fund, begin investing 15%, then decide what the right education is, what the right career path is. And we'll help you with that. I'm going to give you Ken Coleman's new book that's not out yet, but we'll give you the get clear assessment as well as his new book coming out called find the work you love to do as well as paycheck to purpose.

Awesome.

We're going to gift you that to help you on this journey. We want to see you win in this area, and I can't. Your passion for this tells me that you're gonna be doing something. And whether it's being a lawyer or whatever it is, we just want you to do it with peace and without payments. And that might mean we delay the dream. But that's also gonna give you the most peace down the road as you retire with dignity, doing what you love to do. So thank you for the call. Love to hear that. More of the Ramsay show coming right up.

Hey, folks, Dave here. What does your dream retirement look like? Do you want a house on the lake so you can fish every day? Want more time with your grandkids? Whatever your dream is, you need a plan to get there. At our brand new virtual event, investing essentials, I'll show you how to build your investing plan with confidence. First, we'll cover the basics of maximizing your four hundred one k and choosing mutual funds. Then you'll get a peek into my personal playbook for investing. I'll share the strategies I use to analyze my investments, including real estate. Listen, you can do this, and I'll show you how to do it the right way. It's all happening May 21 to 22nd. Our special early bird ticket price ends April 11, so get yours today for just $199 or get a limited vip pass that includes two sessions with a Ramsey preferred financial coach. To help you set and meet your financial goals, go to ramsaysolutions.com events.

Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Jade Warshaw. If you want more from us for some reason, be sure to check out Jade's new book called money's not a Math Problem. I've got a new one called Breaking Free from broke. Both of them will help you win with money, help you change your mindset and paradigm around money, and help you build wealth with less stress. That's the whole goal, so be sure to check those out@ramsaysolutions.com. Jade, this is a, this is a big deal. I finally got my tax return done this past weekend?

Same.

It was weighing on me emotionally. I didn't realize it. It was like living rent free in my head until I got it done.

Yes.

Felt good.

I know that's right. I did mine a couple of months ago, so I did it instantly.

Aren't you the teacher's pet?

Listen, my mother in law, she don't play. She wants those numbers.

Well, you get extra credit. I love it. Well, taxes are confusing. People are stressed out about it this time of year. So to help you get a better handle on them, I want to unpack a question from one of our listeners. Here's what they had to say. I want to avoid overpaying taxes each month. What do I need to change with my paycheck?

This is a good one. I've been answering this question. I feel like once a day, because we tell people all the time, don't give your money to the government.

They're giving the whole free loan. And get excited when you get a refund. I'm like, this is not a bonus.

Exactly. So now the big question is, okay, guys, we hear what you're saying. We don't want to get a refund. How do we change it? And that's essentially what the this question is. So you could approach it one of two ways. Number one, if nothing has changed in your tax situation from last year, or maybe this year, you've already gotten your refund back and you're like, this needs to change for next year. You can look at that refund amount that you received and you can divide it by twelve, and that's essentially what you're overpaying. Or if you want to see what it is per paycheck, and you get paid biweekly divided by 24, and you'll see, okay, this is the amount that I could have back in my paycheck, and that's how much less you want taken out of your check. So now you found the amount you found kind of like the golden egg, and it's like, okay, this is what I need to change. So kind of keep that in your back pocket. Or if your tax situation has changed and you can't compare it to last year, you can't compare it to this year, then you could use software to just do a fake return, which is essentially the same if you went to Ir's dot gov comma.

But let's just be honest. Don't nobody want to go to IR's dot gov to find out what they're and do that fake return. It just boggles the mind. I'd rather use Ramsay smart tax and just go in there and do a fake return. And so then you can figure out, again what you're withholding would be. All you're doing is estimating you're withholding at the right rate. And so now that you know what that number is, you can go to HR and fill out a new w four form. And it's worth noting that it's not like it used to be, George.

It used to be twelve dependents and all this stuff.

Yeah, it's not like that anymore. You can literally just fill in the amount.

Say, I want $200 deducted from every paycheck.

That's right. That's right. And so that's the way to do that. That's to make sure you're not overpaying for your taxes anymore. And that's how you get the money back in your pocket, which is, let's be honest, where it belongs. It's your money.

That's true. And to be fair, the IR's on their website. They have a pretty good withholding calculator that can help you figure this out. You don't have to do fake taxes. And the other side, as an example, let's say you get a $2,400 refund and you have 24 paychecks in a year. Bi weekly, like you said. Well, that means you need to put $100 back each paycheck.

That's right.

In order to get back closer to zero. That's the goal. You don't want to owe too much. It's the Goldilocks here.

Yeah.

You know, so that's a. That's a simple way to look at it. And then w four, you just get with HR. And for some people who have a regular income, like you and I, what I did was I asked HR, K, can I force a percentage? Because once I figured out what percentage of my income needed to be paid out, yes, it was easier that way and I didn't have to worry about, hey, it's not $200 this month. It's 500. So that's another helpful tool to check with your HR on. So if you want more tax help, head to ramsaysolutions.com tax. There you're going to find Ramsay smart tax. The software jade's talking about. Low upfront pricing, no nonsense, no hidden fees, and we'll help you connect with a tax bro who's Ramsey trusted, who can do it all for you, if that's your speed. So, again, that's ramsaysolutions.com tax. We are here to help you file with confidence and get it out of your.

Listen, one more tip that you could throw in there if you're. If you haven't gotten your taxes done yet. I would just sneak that into my tax person and say, hey, listen, by the way, I don't want to get a refund. Like, we've already done the one for this year, but for next year, can you just tell me, can you help me figure this out and just kind of like, you know, like, slide it. Slide on in. Like, slide into DM's and they'll.

They're happy to crunch the numbers. They can do a lot faster than you can. Love it. All right, let's move on to the phones. Mason's in New Orleans. What's happening, Mason?

How y'all doing today?

Doing great. How can Jade and I help?

Yeah. So my question is, I'm getting married in October this year. My fiance is going to come into the marriage. It's about 20,000 in student loans when she gets done with school. So my question is, should I hold back on my investments, like, starting now, to start saving more liquid cash? Because eventually, in four to five years, we're going to want to build or buy a house. So I'm just trying to see the best way to attack this because I feel like right now I'm currently investing $1,000 a month and I'm only able to save $500 to $1,000 a month cash. So I'm just saying, should I stop investing so heavily or what do you all think I should do?

So you have no debt and you have a fully funded emergency fund?

Yes. So I have. My truck is paid off. I have a car that's paid off. I have about nine. I have it right here, $9,298 of liquid cash right now.

Great. Okay. So would that be about three months of expenses for you?

Yeah, my expenses, automatic withdrawals are only. This is including the investing $1,695 a month.

What?

That's crazy. That's including rent, utilities, everything.

No, so that's.

That's just.

What do you think expenses are, man?

Yeah. So. Well, no, my grandparents blessed us for a year of. To where we only have to pay the utilities. So we do have rent free for a year.

So where are you living?

Yeah.

Yeah. So they have a rental property and they offered it just to help us out.

You buried the leads you've got. You're living rent free right now. So life is going pretty well.

Okay.

But I'm trying to be. That's why I've. That's why I was talking to other people. That's why I'm investing heavily. Just trying to be. If I were to have rent, you know, that's why I'm just doing that thousand dollars a month investing.

Well, you know, you are going to have rent in a year or however many months is left in this deal. My question is, and going back to your initial question with your fiance. So you guys are actually getting married in May or she's graduating in May?

No, no, we're getting married in October. She's not going to graduate to a year and a half from now.

Okay, where did I get May from? Okay. So my thought is I'd go along and work these baby steps as your. As your plan, but maybe when you guys do get married, you mentioned that you have a car and a truck. Does she have a car or vehicle as well?

Yeah, her car is paid for as well.

Okay, so that's three vehicles. When she graduates and you guys get married and all this happens and you come together, is there one of these vehicles that you can sell to get rid of the student loan and then be totally debt free?

No. So my truck, I have my own business, so I need my truck for my business. And we live about 35 minutes away from where we just moved from. So I bought that car as a computer car to save on gas, and I need that. And she can't drive it to standard, it's so old. But her car is only worth about seven to ten grand anyways, so I don't really see any point, if it's paid for, to really get rid of it, you know?

Okay. Who's paying for the wedding?

Her parents are.

Oh, that's nice. So you don't have to fork over any money for that? No, sir. And you've already got the ring.

Yes, sir.

Okay, so here's what I would do if I was in your shoes, honestly, I would keep investing that 15% and any money left over I would just sock away into savings. My guess is that will get you pretty close to where, when you get married, you can use the majority of your savings to knock out her student loan debt and then rebuild that emergency fund.

And I still would consider getting rid of one of these vehicles. There's two of you. You don't need three vehicles. One of them sitting in the driveway just going down in value.

But that's the thing. Well, you need. My work gets 10 miles to the gallon. So if I live 35 minutes away from where I work. So, I mean, it was every three days. It was $80 I was having to fill up.

So you just leave your truck at work, is what you're saying, and drive your car?

Yeah, I leave it at work and.

I take my car.

I see.

Okay. Well, I think you'll be close. Invest 15%. If you guys get married and the debt still not going to be knocked out, you can pause investing for a short period in order to speed that up. But my guess is you get real close to having that 20 grand in liquid cash and then just knock it out. Then knock it out once you're married. But never before then. Do not come by anything before.

I know that.

Okay.

Just making sure. We got to call things out like that on the show because I know you sound like an amazing guy. And she's a lucky gal. Your lucky guy. We're going to gift you financial Peace University as a little wedding gift on us. How's that sound?

Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you all so much for your time.

Absolutely. Hang on the line. Christian will pick up and we will get that financial Peace University membership sent over to you, as well as every dollar premium. Help you guys budget together as a newlywed couple. Isn't love so sweet, Jade?

Love is grand.

I love love. This is the Ramsay show. Welcome back to the Ramsay show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Jade Warshaw. Our scripture of the day comes from Isaiah 40, 318, and 19. Forget the former things. Do not dwell on the past. See, I am doing a new thing now. It springs up. Do you not perceive it? I am making a way in the wilderness and streams in the wasteland. In other news, Mick Jagger once said, the past is a great place. I don't want to erase it or regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.

That's great.

That's good. I don't know if I coined this. I probably heard it somewhere. But I like this quote. Failure is a comma, not a comma. You know, you don't want the past to define you or hold you back or paralyze you. It's just a comma.

That's.

We're moving on, Jade.

All right. I'm with it.

Pontificate on that.

That's my word.

There it is. All right, let's go to Shane in Huntsville, Alabama. What's happening, Shane?

Hey. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure. How can we help?

Okay. I'm 53, and I've only got 48,000 in my retirement. In my four hundred one k, I was putting 13% in and I moved it down to 5% because we got an FPU and we've only been in a month and we're still trying to hash things out. But I've got like 30,000 in debt with the credit cards and other loans and my wife's got 170,000 in stupid loans. And should I change my 401k down to nothing so we get everything paid off because $170,000 will take a while to pay off.

It is.

But I would definitely not cash out your four hundred one k to do that.

I don't want to cash it out. I just don't. Should I stop putting anything in it or stop contributing?

Yes.

What's your household income?

Oh, I'm, last year I'm at 87, but my overtime fluctuates so much. So I'm on saving probably 70,000.

What does she mean?

My wife makes about 85.

So what do you guys bring home every month?

I bring home about, let's see, 2500, she brings home about 3000. 4000. About 4000. What? She brings home.

Okay, so you guys are bringing, say that again.

Hers is more steady of income than mine is because she's pretty much like salary, but she's a nurse. They kind of what you're looking at.

About 6000 a month.

I'm confused because if you take home 6500, that's 78 grand. But you told me your household income is 155.

Well, yeah, I take home 7500. Oh, well, right.

So how much do you take home a month?

I take home a month about 2500, my checks about twelve. That's what I'm confused about every two weeks.

Yeah, that makes no sense that you take home 30 grand yet you make 70.

Are you sure that, what are we missing?

No, my, my yearly is about 70,000.

Now you did mention stopping retirement. How much was coming out of your retirement?

I was thinking 13% out and I moved it down to 5% because that's what my company matches is 5% okay?

That's still something different adding up, but that's neither here nor there. Yes. You should stop investing. Total debt.

My take on my.

That's not gross, that's, I understand, but I'm saying after taxes and even healthcare premium deductions or whatever and 5% investing, you shouldn't be taking home 30 making 70.

Mm hmm.

You're not in Alabama, you're not paying. That's 60% in taxes.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, it could be different than what it was.

I don't know, but it's not.

We worked so much overtime last year. I don't remember what it was the last three years. We worked so much overtime. I don't know what a regular.

Okay, well, here's the key. Well, let's go off the numbers you gave us of the gross income. You guys have $200,000 of consumer debt, not including a mortgage.

Right.

And you make 155, George?

I don't think we should go off of 155 because I don't think they make that. I think we should go off the six k a month.

Okay. So going off your take home pay, my goal for you guys is to pay this off. Three years would be great. So if you do that math, 200k divided by three years, that's 66 a year, which means you need to be putting 5500 a month, which might mean we need to get the income up and do some side hustles, do some overtime because this cannot take ten years because you got to get back to investing because you guys have nothing in retirement. And I don't want you working at 75 if you don't have to be.

Tell us about your vehicles.

Well, that's one of the things I plan on selling my truck. I don't even have it in the debt because I plan on selling it because I still owe like 28,000 on it.

What's it worth?

It's probably worth about 25, 26. So I wouldn't lose that much in it.

Okay. What about your wife? But that's not included in what you just told us, so. That's right.

That's not including. Her car is not included. But her car is 40,000.

Oh, my God.

Our car probably worth 28,000.

Why this?

She traded. She trades cars and she traded.

Negative equity.

Yeah, a lot of negative equity in it.

So. Okay, so there's a lot to be learned from this. Just looking at the numbers. And I don't say any of this to be negative. I say it because there's a lot of. We're just, we're not paying attention to anything. We. We have one car. We don't want to drive it anymore. Who cares if it's got what we owe on it? We're rolling it into the next one. I worked, I made this much one year. I'm not really sure what I make this year. I'm not really. There's a lot of you have. You guys aren't doing your due diligence. You work. You work too hard to not know how much you make. And you work too hard to live in chaos. Yeah. And so I want you guys to get a hold of that. And go, we've got. We've got to stop, because until you get that together, it doesn't matter what you do. Does that make sense? How's your wife feel about all this?

Well, we're in FPU. This is our first full month, and it was last month. And we're kind of still budgeting what our budget is. We're kind of still figuring out what we need to do.

Okay, but she's fully committed the same way you are?

Yes, she is. I don't think she wants to get rid of her car, and.

Well, then she's not fully committed, and that's what I'm talking about. Like, you guys are not going to be able to do this unless you are fully laser beam. 100%. All in, both of you. And so that's. That's. That's got to be the prayer. Every night that you guys pray together is, hey, help us to just get all in on this. Help us to realize the gravity of this situation so we can do what it takes. That's. That's what I would be praying every single day and every single night.

Think of it this way. You're 53. Let's say you go all in like we're telling you to, and three years from now, you pay off this debt. You're now 56. Then for the next ten years, you invest heavily. You do catch up contributions. You invest 15%, you get the house paid off. Well, now, at 66, we can actually retire with dignity instead of looking up and the debt's still sitting there, and we still haven't invested.

I've always. The way I've always looked at it, I'm probably gonna work till I die.

Till the day your funeral. Not. Not if you follow our way. That's a sad outlook.

I know. If I fall that way, I'm. It's just. It's just my job is so. It's hard for me to take another job, a second job, because of the way my job overtime is.

This has nothing to do with your job. You guys made a lot of stupid decisions over a long period of time.

Oh, I know. I've made a lot of stupid decisions.

So. You guys are hard work people. You actually make good money, especially for Alabama. And so the problem is, every time you got a raise, you made more money. We just spent it. And we saw a shiny new car, and we wanted it, and we didn't have the money. We put it on the credit card.

Tell us about your house.

It's probably worth about 181, 185, maybe. And we owe like 97 on it.

Okay. And tell me what the mortgage payment is. Just checking.

740 something, maybe. I think it's 740 something.

All right, so there's no problem there. This is just like we said, you guys buckling down. And some, somebody, if not both of you, is picking up extra work, whether it's overtime. And when you're picking up that overtime, be clear. What is this going to mean for our next check? Like, know what these dollars are so that you guys can crunch and figure out what the best strategy is for you bringing in extra income. And that starts with you really understanding what you know. What is your base salary? What does it look like when you pick up these extra hours? Really getting your head around what the actual numbers are? Because before you were six, like you were, you were only bringing in. You were bringing in less than half of what you said you were bringing in, which is crazy. So we got to get that clear.

My last three years, we've worked so much overtime. I really don't know. In the last. Well, the first three months of this, this year, we've worked pretty normal hours. And we hadn't had a whole lot of overtime.

Well, I guess we don't have a.

Shock to my system, so.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, if. If your overtime amount. If without overtime, you're only bringing in 30,000, we might need to talk about a career shift.

Either way, there's some deep sacrifice here. You're not gonna be able to just roll tide your way into retirement. Unfortunately, you gotta make a plan. You gotta invest. You gotta get rid of this debt. And none of this is gonna be easy. And y'all been living la vida loca the last who knows how many years. It's time to be an adult because we want to see you retire with the dignity. This is the Ramsay show.

Hey, folks. Dave here. You want to hear even more life changing content from Ramsey? Download the Ramsey network app so you can catch all your favorite shows all in one place. Like the Ramsey show, smart money, happy hour, and the doctor John Deloney show. You'll get real talk about life, relationships, money, and your career. Plus, the app lets you browse by topic, like debt, business, or selling your home. Get the content you want whenever and wherever you want to listen. Download the Ramsey Network app today.