Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Number one bestselling author of the book breaking free from Broke, Ramsey personality and host of the very popular George Camel show on YouTube. George Camel is my co host today. Thank you for joining us, America. The phone number is triple 8825-5225 so, George, when sometimes when people think of Dave Ramsey, they think, cheap.

I don't like that.

They think, if I'm doing Dave Ramsey, I can't ever have a life the rest of my life. And that was happened early on in my career. I got associated with, you know, beans and rice, rice and beans, junk cars, drive the hooptie, drive the hooptie, never have a life, can't have any fun. And that's all about Dave Ramsey. And the truth is that that's exact opposite of me. And so we had to try to communicate that to our team, and we started saying, okay, here's the deal. Yes, you're going to pay a price to win. But the point is win. That's the point. So live like no one else. So that you can live and give like no one else. Drive a car like no one else. So that later you can drive a car like no one else. Yeah.

It wasn't the end goal, you know.

And so the goal is not to stay, you know, be worth $80 million and live in a cave, collect lint, and only come out on triple coupon Thursday. That's not the goal. Okay? The goal is to be outrageously generous, enjoy the money to live like no one else. But you got to get your crap cleaned up to do that, right? You got to get out of debt, you got to get your emergency fund in place, and then you hit baby step four, five, and six, where you're investing in building your emergency fund, and now you're starting the process of living like no one else can.

Let your foot off the gas a little and start to upgrade some of the stuff, go on vacations again, all that good stuff.

So a couple of years ago, we launched a live like no one else cruise. And the cruise date was approximately the same date that we shut the entire nation down for the Fauci pandemic. And so guess what? We didn't cruise, which was a problem, because, I mean, people were getting on those boats. It was. It was, y'all remember, it was a mess. And so it was so painful for all of us here because we had the thing sold out. It was gonna be such fun.

I had my bags packed.

It was ready. I mean, I was. We were so ready to go. And, like, weeks, you know, days before it was. It was March 23, 2020 was the sale date. That's when we were gonna go and leave the dock, right? No, no. Not enough masks or flattening of the curve for vaccines on the planet to cause that puppy to sail. It was done. But guess what? Today we are relaunching the live like no one else cruise. We are going, baby. It just took a little while. We're going next year at this time. And it went on sale today to the public. And as soon as it went out on the public and went out to our, you know, we sent out the email newsletter from the people on our database and so forth. We shut the cruise website down. We broke the Internet.

Oh, boy.

So many people want to live like no one else with us. So it's joy. It's all the Ramsey personalities. George Camel. I mean, you got seven days of George Camel trapped on a boat with you.

Don't tell my wife, Dave. She may not go.

And Jade Warshaw and doctor John Deloney and Ken Coleman and me. I'm going to be there the whole week. That's right. And we're bringing some friends with us, y'all. It's gonna be so fun. It's Holland America, so it's an upscale cruise. It's not like Walmart on the seas or something. This is a good one. Okay. And some of those other ones, y'all know what?

They are not a great value cruise.

Yeah. This is not a value cruise. This is a fun upskit because you're. Now you're living like no one else. You don't need to come on this cruise, though, unless you're in baby step four or beyond, because that would, a, make us hypocrites and b, you wouldn't be following our system because we tell you not to go on vacation until you're out of debt and have your emergency fund in place. Baby steps one, two, and three. And we're going to stay with that. We stayed with it last time. The crew sold out in about. I think it was about four and a half, five weeks. It sold out last time we did it. And based on the response this morning, it's not even going to last that long this time.

Well, think about it. Over the last five years, people are in much better shape financially if they've been following these steps.

Yeah.

They've gotten out of debt since that last.

That's exactly right. And a lot, you know, the first people we offered it to and we sold a whole bunch of them were the ones that didn't get to go last time. They had up until yesterday to sign up and you people didn't know about it. So we're going to Turks and Caicos. Oh, have you ever been to Turks? That's a wheat. That water so clear makes Gomer say Shazam. I'm just saying St. Thomas. Oh, the US Virgin Islands, San Juan, the Bahamas. These are the stops. And it's, again, it's Holland America. It's a first class ship, and we're going to have the whole ship. It's all just us. It's gonna be Ramsey people. That's it. Live like no one else. Cruise. And I said, we're bringing some friends. Stephen Curtis Chapman. How many Grammys has Stephen got?

He has five Grammys. I've set five Grammys. 59 dove awards, an american music award, 50 number one singles, 17 million albums. Those numbers hurt my brain.

And a little known secret is he's also just an incredibly nice guy.

Amazing dude.

We've been friends for about 20 years, and he is a world class talent and a great guy. He's gonna be with us on the cruise. Manit Shohan from the food channel, world class chef, winner of Iron chef and a whole bunch of other things. And she's become a friend in the last few years. We've done several events with her. She was at an event I did that we did just the other day at one of our vip events. Oh, yeah, man, the food. When she. She's going to do cooking demonstrations, all kinds of fun stuff with Monit Shohan. Dina Carter, country music star extraordinaire. I don't know how many Grammys or whatever she's got, but she's a big deal. Been around Nashville forever. We're bringing some of the country music songwriters. We're going to do songwriters night. And these two of the guys win, and Phil are. They've written some of the biggest hits out there. Like win wrote waiting on a woman.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Little song that Brad Paisley did. And so these guys are going to be on there with us. It's incredible lineup. We're going to be talking and doing events and doing sessions all week, and we're going to play together and we're going to splash in that blue water.

That'S on top of all of the normal world class cruise entertainment. And we're bringing stuff on top of that.

Well, it's our cruise. I mean, they're gonna have their little dancing people and all that, but. But, I mean, I thought I was gonna have their normal thing, right? But we're gonna do our dog and pony show, baby. This is it.

Ken Coleman and I are gonna do a little routine.

Are you out there? Yeah, we're working on a little banjo.

It's kind of an irish jig.

Oh, please don't. We'll save that. I'm gonna veto.

But we do have a world class magician and comedian. Nate Bargetzi's dad, Steven Bargetzi, is gonna be joining us.

He's a hoot. He's amazed how Nate got funny.

You've seen him open for Nate. Yeah, he gets it from him. And then Carolyn Xavier, a hilarious comedian who even Dave.

Oh, man. Well, I was the one recommended her for this. Recovering California. Yeah, recovering Californian. She makes fun of the south and tells Californians, like, this is a stick of butter. They use the whole thing when they cook and stuff like that. Right. So she's funny as card. I love this. Gonna be great, y'all. It's gonna be March 22 through the 29th. So about a year away. Little less than a year away. Eleven months away. And if you're in baby steps four and beyond and you want to go with us, it's the live like no one else. Cruise it open to the public today. We already broke the Internet once. Let's see if we can do it again. Go to ramsaysolutions.com cruise and get your cabins and tickets and all that stuff before while you can. Last time we did this, the whole thing was gone in just a couple of weeks. Few weeks. So you. We're gonna remind you about this thing, but as you can tell, we're a bit jazzed about it. And even though it brings back very dark and deep and horrible memories. But aside from that, we're very jazzed about it, so it's very cool.

This is gonna be fun.

I can't wait.

Go get your tickets.

Ramsaysolutions.com cruise. We'll see you there.

This episode is sponsored by Betterhelp. Hey, if you're like me, at this time of the year, all of the school plays and meetings and invites from everywhere have completely drained your social battery. Or maybe you're like some of my friends who are bursting with energy so much that everyone may be telling you to just chill out a little. If you're having trouble navigating mismatched energy levels, boundaries, or finding people to do life with, it might be time to talk to a therapist. Therapy can be a place to open up with someone who's been trained to listen and walk alongside you and help you find paths through the chaos of mismatched energy levels and and more. If you're thinking of starting therapy, try betterhelp. Betterhelp is completely online and flexible enough to fit your schedule. Just fill out a short questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapist at any time for no extra cost. Find your social sweet spot with betterhelp. Visit betterhelp.com deloney today to get 10% off your first month. That's Betterhelp. H dash e dash p.com deloney.

George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're so glad you're here. Alex is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, alex. How are you? Hello.

How's it going, Dave?

Better than I deserve, sir. What's up?

Nothing much, man. You know, I've been following you for a couple years, man. You know, been making great strides, and I'm at a point where I'm questioning whether or not I should finally treat myself and just get a new car that I've wanted for a little bit.

Okay. All right.

Yep.

So you've been following us. What's the guidelines that we use?

Obviously not taking on new debt.

Okay. That's one. That's good. What else?

You know, that's, you know, paying off your mortgage. You know, all that. All that good stuff. You know, I've been working on all that. I've been really chugging along the last couple years, made, you know, what I feel is amazing strides. And I'm just like, you know what? I feel like I need to reward myself, man, you know, and get.

Are you out of debt completely?

Not completely, but, like, in a position where, like, given my income, the debt that I have is very minimal.

What debt do you have left?

So I have a house worth about 210, 220. I owe 85 on it. I got a rental worth about 120 that I owe 60 on. And that's it. I have a credit card that I owe 2000. That's my business credit card for my rental company, but that's it.

Good.

Good for you.

And are you. And what do you make a year? Household income.

So household is around 250. I'm the bulk of that. I make 220. My wife, she makes about 30.

Okay. All right. And what is your net worth?

Well, I got probably. Do you include my houses and my 401 and everything? Well over 200. Probably between 225 and 250.

Yes. When you say a new car, are you talking about a new to you car? Or a brand new car.

Brand new 2024 Ford Maverick. You know, as much as I'd love to get a $70,000 Sierra, that's just dumb. So, you know, I want to be modest. Get a truck that checks all my boxes, that isn't too crazy and is very affordable. So, yeah, the truck's only 27k. So, you know, like, it's a new truck for the price of used trucks nowadays.

Alex, you are a grown person, and you're certainly allowed to do whatever you want to do. What you're asking is not illegal, so you get to do whatever you want to do. To be very clear, though, if you'd spent more time than I thought you had listening. We teach folks that new cars go down in value so rapidly that you shouldn't buy a brand new car until you have over a million dollar net worth. And we've taught people that for 30 years. So I would buy a one year old truck or a two year old truck, if you can pay cash for it in the guidelines that you're talking about, would be just fine. Yeah.

So, like, I could. It's basically like, should I save up my resources over the next, like, few months instead of dumping them into my mortgage?

Yes.

And pay cash for it? Or just keep dumping into my mortgage?

No.

And just stride on for another year?

No. If you. If you want to keep paying down the mortgage, that's fine. There's nothing wrong with doing that, too, and not buying the truck. But if you're going to buy the truck, you're going to pay cash for it. So you're going to have to save up, right?

Yeah. So pretty much put. Put pauses on the mortgage, the extra.

Payments on the mortgage, you're going to slow down because that's what we teach you to do at baby step three, because this kind of is a want for you. It's not really a need, but let's pretend that it was an actual need, that you were driving a $2,000 car, making $250,000, and it was really time for you to move up. And you're on baby steps four, five, six. Right. Then we would tell you to just slow down how much you're putting on the house so that you could upgrade the car to something reasonable, because a $2,000 car in your situation will be unreasonable. Reasonable. Right, George? Yeah.

And the other piece here is, are you currently investing 15% into retirement?

Yes.

Okay, good.

So beyond that, how much cash do you have?

Well, I got about six, seven grand in my emergency fund savings. I think it's like 6500 to be exact. And then in my checking I only have, honestly I think like 1500 because I budget very strictly and anything extra pretty much at the end of the month just goes straight into the mortgage. Mortgage.

That's how you got those low balances you're killing like.

Yeah, like I bought this house two years ago, the loan was 180. And I'm already got it down to, you know, 84.

I love that. I love that. What are you driving now?

You're gonna laugh at me when I say this. I work from home, so I got a 1994 Chevy s ten.

Okay.

Because I just.

I don't laugh at.

And then when I. When I got the rental property just for getting stuff for that. Cause me and my friend are fixing it up and so forth. We got a really good deal on it. That's why I got it early, because it was too good of a deal to pass out.

Yeah. So, Alex, so what? Our recommendation always is, and I'm not laughing at you at that, I think you've done a great job. You paid down very aggressively on these mortgages. That's excellent. So if you want to slow down the payment on the mortgage a little bit, or just make regular payments on the mortgages for a few months and pay cash for a one or a two year old truck, I think that's just fine. I would not recommend you buy a brand new truck. Because when you drive a brand new car off the lot and you hear that sound as you leave the lot and pull on the street, when you go across the curb, it goes, bloom, bloom. That sound is $10,000. That's how much you lost right then. And by the time you get home, it's almost another ten. So the new cars just lose so much of their value so fast that we don't recommend you take that hit. Unless you've got a net worth of over a million dollars.

You can stomach it at that point. And there are some prerequisites here, Alex. You need to pay off that credit card debt before you do anything. You have the money sitting there. You got seven k in the bank. Pay that off now. That leaves you with five k. I think you need to beef up that emergency. He said it's for the business and all this, but if you're playing, I wouldn't be playing that game.

I'd get rid of that. Get you a debit card, cut up that credit card. Time for plastic surgery too, Alex.

And I think the emergency fund needs to be beefed up. Cause he's only got five k at that point. We need to get him closer to probably 15, 20, 25,000.

You need to be at 20.

Then we can start saving up cash for the car.

So we need to get the credit card done, get a debit card, build the emergency fund up to that, then save up for a car and pay cash. That's the order of events. And all of that. What, you can slow down making 250 a little. You've done a great job overall. All we're doing is fine tuning just a little bit. A little bit of polish right here.

But the ingredients are there.

All we're doing, you've got all the right things. And the good news is you're paying attention and you're really thinking about it. Anna Lee is with us in Sacramento. Hi, Anna Lee. How are you? Hi.

I'm good.

Good. How can we help?

So I have a question about my mortgage. And I didn't know at the time of buying our home that you guys don't recommend manufactured homes, but we currently have a mortgage on it, and I am debating on whether we should throw our savings at that mortgage or keep it in cash for when we decide to sell. Trying to pay down the mortgage quicker on the principal.

Okay. Well, overall, the concept is that every day you keep it, you're losing money because it going down in value.

Yeah.

So when we decide to sell would.

Be like three weeks from now, and it's not looking great for equity.

I'm sorry, say again?

Just based on the pricing.

Start again.

I was talking over you right now. We're not looking great for selling right now. It's kind of a lull in the area we're at. But that's why I'm debating on if we should be paying down the loan with the money.

I'm saying that regardless of a lull in the area, in real estate, every day you own a manufactured house. It's going down in value. Trailers go down in value.

Yeah.

And so the longer you hold it, the more you're going to lose.

Okay.

So I'm going to be thinking about putting this on the market very quickly.

Now, there's nothing rental wise that we could even really afford for the same amount.

Well, you're losing money every day that you sleep in a trailer. Don't talk to me about. There's no rental property in Sacramento, California. Okay. You're losing money every day that you own a trailer. A trailer is a car you sleep in. These are two back to back calls on depreciating assets. So you keep it as long as you want and you rationalize it as long as you want, but every day you keep this, your finances are going the wrong way. So don't rationalize that stupidity. Don't do it. You know, you, you need to be thinking about how quickly we can get out of this thing.

Even if you don't have equity, it's going to be a stupid tax you pay to get out of the situation.

The equity's going down. It's getting negative and negative and more negative every day. It's what it does. It's just, yeah, sorry. I got friends that are in the manufactured housing business. They're like, Dave, quit trashing us. I'm like, I'm not trashing you. You sell something that goes down in value. I'm just stating a fact. That's it. This is the Ramsey show. Hey, guys. Whether you're starting on a card table like I did or well on your way to becoming a multimillion dollar company, Netsuite can help your team communicate and plan ahead better, like they do for Ramsey. Let me tell you, Netsuite really helped us get our systems together. And more than 37,000 other companies also use Netsuite to know their numbers and their business better. So check out Netsuite today and find out how they can help you become the business you want to be five or 30 years from now. And right now, you can download Netsuite's free KPI checklist designed to give you consistently excellent performance@netsuite.com. Ramsey George Camel, Ramsey Personality is my co host today. This is a fun day on the Ramsey show. Some days we just sit here and do what we're supposed to do.

And other days we get to have a lot of fun. Today is get to remind you guys it's National Financial Literacy month. And that's a big deal because financial literacy is a big deal. Ever since I started talking about this stuff, everybody says, why don't they teach this in high school? Why don't they teach us in high school? Well, we do. We sell high school curriculum called foundations and personal finance. 48% of the high schools in America have not taught it at one time or another. We've had almost 8 million students go through it. It's pretty cool. So we're actively working all the time. Texas is in adoption right now, so South Carolina, and they're putting in, you know, we're one of the approved curriculum. And so the teachers and the administrators and the people who are purchasing the curriculum for the different schools, it's now required subject to get out of high school in those two states, and it is in several states, thank goodness. It's good. You ought to learn how to balance a checkbook. We'd have better congressmen if they learned how to do that for the. You know.

So it's good and we're biased, but we have the best curriculum.

Oh, definitely. Oh, it's because the other stuff's dry, boring, and not even right. Ours is fun, funny, and it's correct.

And actually teaches you how to win with money and avoid debt instead of accumulate it.

Here's how you build your credit score. Don't. Okay, that's good. That'll work. That was easy. So there's that. All right. So, hey, one of the cool things that happens is we have companies and. And institutions and groups come alongside us and sponsor the curriculum to go into schools that can't otherwise afford to pay for it. And so we've got local businesses that do that. We've had other groups. One of the groups that came alongside us is the air force. Now, that's pretty stinking cool. And the air force is one of our big sponsors on it. And so we've got Lieutenant Colonel Brian Ewing from the US Air Force on the line, and I want to talk about this a little bit. Brian and I have gotten to spend time together a couple times. How are you? How are you, Colonel Ewing?

Hey, I woke up today, and I'm getting paid, so life is good.

There we go, man. Well, we're honored to have men and women like you on the payroll. Thank you for your service. So, you guys with the Air Force have been sponsoring this for quite a while. How did you hear about the idea that you could sponsor the Ramsey curriculum and the Air Force decide to do that?

So, I've been, you know, following you for quite a long time. Back in 2008 and 2009, my wife and I, we got debt free, and thanks to your curriculum. And, you know, we just kept looking at that and then, you know, seeing where we could help.

We.

We taught, or I should say, facilitated FPU all over the world, you know, Afghanistan, Iraq, states, all over the country. But then when I got into Air Force recruiting, I said, but, man, how can we. How can we do something better and do it for the youth and get upstream of, you know, before people get into those troubles? And so, yeah, I was talking with your folks there, the education team, Ryan Davis, Jeff Martinez and team. And they told me about this. This foundation of personal finance, and said, hey, we have this. And if you guys want to come alongside as you can. And so a couple years ago, we said, well, let's dip our toes in the water. And we sponsored three schools there in the Tennessee area. It went amazing. And we had such great results. We said, well, let's expand it over to Oklahoma and a couple other states. We went to ten schools, and then this past year, we just, we just went crazy with it. And, you know, said, hey, we want to go after about 100 schools. And we were able to sponsor 92 schools. Thank, thanks to your partnership.

Wow. Well, thanks to your partnership. We appreciate you, Colonel Ewing, appreciate the Air Force coming alongside. And that's 92 schools. And if you had, that's a thousand students probably or more that are going to go through this curriculum because of you all. And in the process, they're going to hear about the Air Force and find out that if you want to go to college debt free, the Air Force can cause that to happen. Right? And so they learn there's a good, it's a good, it's a good partnership in a lot of ways, right?

Yes, sir. I think it's a phenomenal partnership. You know, I've been in schools and homes that, you name it all over everything all over the country. And what I hear from these young people is they're hungry, right? They're hungry for information. They're hungry for opportunities. And I call it the, you know, it's kind of like a dog with a cone on his head after a surgery or something. We have this cone of knowledge that we just don't know about. We know what mom does and dad does. If you're lucky enough to have both of them, those that may be a teacher, but what we want to do is open them up to take that cone off and tell them about different opportunities, both on the educational, the job opportunity size, and whether they come in the air force or not. Let's set them up for success. And the teachers and the counselors are saying, hey, air force, come talk to my students. And so everybody wins in this, from the student to the parent, to you guys, to us. I mean, our communities are better because of this partnership.

I love that. And the ripple effect, colonel, is amazing. I just met someone yesterday. I was at, you know, the line of the coffee shop, and she said, hey, are you the guy from that Ramsey curriculum? I went, yeah. She said, I love your stuff. I was able to pay cash for a car because of you guys. I learned so much. I'm budgeting. And so the ripple effect, we'll never know. As these people start families and, you know, affect their communities. So thank you for what you guys do and the big part you play in that.

Yeah, thank you. And all of the businesses out there across America that sponsor Air Force is one of our larger sponsors with 92 schools. But all of you businesses are sponsor out there and. Cause maybe the high school you graduated from, you make sure those kids get the curriculum, you know, that kind of thing. A lot of you jump in. You can get in touch with us and jump in. If you're out there listening and want to join this crusade of teaching the youngsters, I kind of have this idea, if we could teach them all to be financial literate, it could possibly change the nation. It'd be one of the things that did. Anyway, so very cool. And so, Colonel Ewing, thank you so much. Thanks for the sponsorship. Thanks for your personal friendship. Thanks for your heart and for your service for this nation. And we really, really appreciate you guys coming alongside us and thanks for taking a little time with us.

Thank you all so much. You know, like I said, I hope this is, as I've said to your team before, I hope we keep this relationship going and if we can grow it in any way, and if, like you said, if people want their schools out there that want it, hey, we've got a little bit of money left in the coffer, believe it or not, and we'd love to sponsor more schools. So Air Force.com, or however they want to reach out to us, to your team or to, to us, we'll be happy to grab some more schools so that we can keep this going.

Well, if we have, if we hadn't spent all your money, we'll find a way to do it, brother.

We're about to break the Air force.

So here we go. That's awesome. Yeah. Go to ramsaysolutions.com sponsor. That's where you would go. If you, if you're a teacher and you need the curriculum, air force just offered to sponsor it for you, maybe got a handful more because apparently we need to get over 100. We only got 92, so there we go.

Dave likes round numbers.

Yeah, well, apparently Colonel Ewing does. I'm just saying. And we don't argue with him. We salute. The lieutenant colonel comes in the room, you salute, buddy. That's how you do it. So. And, hey, we appreciate you in all seriousness. And if you want to sponsor or help these kids out, ramsaysolutions.com sponsor will do that. By the way, in honor of this month, we're giving away for our teacher appreciation giveaway, Ramsey education is one teacher is going to win a $5,000 vacation. You don't have to be teaching the curriculum. You just have to be a teacher in the classroom. Not a homeschool teacher, a teacher in the classroom. You homeschoolers are real teachers too, but I'm talking about classroom teachers. Okay, so $5,000 vacation for one. Two more teachers are going to win a $3,000 vacation. No purchase is necessary. To register for that, go to ramsaysolutions.com teacher.

And we all know a teacher, so send them a link to ramsaysolutions.com teacher and say, hope you win.

That's cool. So someone in line, a youngster, she.

Was working the register.

She had just. Oh, oh, so she was a high schooler. Oh, she is currently in high school, yeah.

She said, hey, last year I took the curriculum. And so I run into these people all the time. One guy, I was in a target once and he just yelled at me, Dave Ramsey. And I went, sure, George Camel. But I knew exactly what he was saying. And again, I went, how do you know? He said, I went through the curriculum and they're actually enjoying it. They're engaging with it. I did a Zoom call with a class this week, you know, 60 students out there asking questions. And the teacher's been doing this for 15 years now. He's been teaching this stuff. And it's just amazing the impact we can have on this next generation to be the preventative medicine instead of the emergency surgery you've done on the show for 30 years, telling people to amputate the Tahoe.

So I walked in. Sharon and I were dropped by Best Buy. She was looking at a washer and dryer. And so we go in there Sunday afternoon, there's nobody in there. It's right before closing time. And we walk in, there's a young guy like 1617 at the front. They've got greeters or whatever. How can we help you? Or whatever. And I'm like, washer and dryer. He points that way. You're Dave Ramsey. I'm like, good gosh, you're 16. How do you know that? He goes, curriculum. Same thing. I went through your high school curriculum. And he goes, and your YouTube student, man, it's great. And so we get ready to leave. We walk out, there's a girl standing beside him, also, 1617. She goes, I'm so into your YouTube. And I'm like, I walked out. My wife said, you're just a youtuber now. That's all you are.

That's it the bono of personal finance.

Used to be cats chasing lasers. Now it's bald. Guys. There we go. YouTube has moved along.

Whatever keeps you relevant.

There you go. This is the Ramsey show. I saw some recent financial statistics and there was some pretty troubling news. When families were asked how long it would be before they faced financial hardship if a spouse died, nearly one third said they'd be in trouble immediately. Another 44% said they'd be financially drained within six months. People, it does not have to be this way. Term life insurance plans are just plain cheap. And companies have made it even easier by not requiring exams. In many cases, there really is no to leave your family in this situation by not having life insurance. This is why I talk about Zander insurance every day. They're committed to protecting families with the only products that I recommend. And their team keeps the entire process simple and affordable. Go to zander.com for quick online pricing or call 803 564282. This has to be a priority. If your family is in this situation, you need to get this done. Thanks for being with us, America. George Camel Ramsey personality is our co host. George there is a way that the listener, the viewer can help us, and we need their help.

We do. What is that way?

Well, it would be subscribing to the show. What else?

Following, following the show, liking, commenting, engaging, sharing.

Clicking the buttons.

That's it.

The buttons.

All of them.

The podcast, the YouTube buttons. What is it? What is it? Deloney calls it the Internets. Oh, gosh.

The interwebs. Call them interwebs.

The YouTubes.

He thinks it makes him seems like.

There'S more than one tube. The YouTubes.

There's many, yeah.

And so leaving reviews, do you think he does it on purpose?

I think. I think he does. To anger the youth of America, just to rile them up, make them feel something.

He wants to sound like an uncomfortable, cool boomer.

Yes.

And he's not.

He's actually cool is the problem.

That's the problem. Yeah.

Gosh.

So subscribe, follow. Leave a five star review. Those one star reviews are not helpful. You're just a little troll. We know who you are.

I don't like this.

My little troll. And so don't be a little troll. And so, yeah, be, be a five star. Be a hero. Five star. Be a hero, be a hero. Five gold stars. Remember when you're first grade. Five gold stars. They probably didn't do that, but they did it when I. We got. That's where this whole thing came from, by the way. We were little kids. They used to give us stars, but, yeah. So, anyway, now I'm still a little kid asking for stars. There you go. And so. And follow. And, hey, by the way, share. That's a big one. Let people know about the show. Thank you for that. Wendy is in Phoenix. Hi, Wendy. Welcome to the Ramsey show.

Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm slightly terrified to talk to you, but I'm.

It's just me. Wendy, don't worry.

We'll let George be nice to you.

I know. I hear you telling people what a mess they've made of their lives. Now they're stupid. And I know you're going to say, that's me.

Well, now you know. You're going to be nice to you. Wendy. What's up? What'd you do?

Okay, so my husband and I have $320,000 worth of student loans. What? And it's just growing.

Wow. Who's the doctor in the last.

He's a foot and ankle surgeon.

Oh, that's good.

And. And so he does make. He does. I know. He's saying he has a good shovel.

Good.

Okay. But it doesn't feel like that because everything goes towards this bet that's just growing.

And what's he make?

Um, for the longest, he makes 180,000.

He just get out?

No, no.

It feels low for a surgeon.

Yeah. Really?

He's in podiatry. He's a footnote surgeon.

I know, but they don't charge less. I mean.

And it. That's. That's. That's about where.

Okay, so let's. Let's. Let's pretend that he's making 200, because that sounds low. Okay, good. 180. Do you work outside the home?

I work part time with special needs.

Okay. And thank you. That's wonderful. And you've got 3320,000 in student loan debt from his getting his md. And what else do you have in debt?

Well, we do have two cars that we are planning on paying off.

How much do you own? The two cars?

It's 20 total.

20 between the two of them. Okay. What else do you have?

That's it. Well, and our mortgage.

And how much do you owe on your mortgage?

$480,000.

Okay. All right. Okay. Well, you haven't done too bad. A lot of people, when they graduate from med school, get what I call docitis. Cause they've been holding their breath for 16 or 17 years doing nothing but going to school. And they graduate and go, ta. Ta da. I'm a doctor. I'm gonna go buy a bunch of crap I can't afford. And that's what they usually do. That's docitis. And so they buy a house that can't afford two bmws and a mercedes as a spare and. And start going on vacations and still have $300,000 in student loan debt. You didn't do that. You'd only got $20,000 in car debt. That's good. So y'all have been fairly, fairly conservative, so. But you're making 200 a year. So how much can you throw at the debt if you get on beans and rice?

Well, that's the thing. I feel like we are on being a nice. And I'm emotional. I'm sorry. We have a lot of things that we're paying for, for, like our kids that aren't covered with insurance.

You have special needs children yourself?

Well, I do, yes. But then three of my kids all struggle with depression, anxiety, suicidal ideations. And so a lot of. A lot of our disposable money goes straight to therapists because not all that's not always covered by. Anyway. I'm getting off topic.

No, that's part of the topic. I mean, you got. Got your hands full. So how old are you guys?

I do. I'm 40. 43. Both of us are.

And you have three children, and he has. I mean, are they yours from a previous marriage or.

We have four children. One has special needs, and then the other three struggle with mental illness. They're all from my husband, and I like first marriage. Anyway, so finally I got my husband on board. He read your book because he was content to just make the minimum payment and income based repayment and live like that.

I got the picture. Now, how can we best serve you today, ma'am?

Okay. Okay. So I would like to sell our home. It's increasing so much value, we could list it for 1.1. We have a few comps, a few realtors telling us that we won't be able to sell it unless we put in a backyard. And my debt is telling me not to listen to them and just sell it as is because we will make enough to wipe out our student loans, have the three to six months of financial reserves we could rent for a while and just start building wealth and save for when we can do a home with a 15 year.

I would do that as a last resort, really, not as a first resort, because moving is very expensive and you do. You have to replace it with another place to live.

And you got a lot of kids. You need room for six.

So I would not do that until the two of you had sat down and done your every dollar budget together and gotten some peace about where the money's going. Because in talking to you, it feels very chaotic. There's not peace on the subject and it's going everywhere. It feels out of control. And so the selling of the home feels like a desperate slash, a leap, a lunge, rather than a carefully thought out, wise decision because we've done everything else we can do and we're stuck. Am I missing something? No. Okay. All right. That's where all the emotions coming from is, the chaos and the sense of hopelessness. There's no, no, I can't see a light at the end of the tunnel unless it's a train coming at me. So I want the two of you to sit down together before you give up your home and lay out and say, okay, we're going to budget for the therapist. We're going to budget for the special need. We're going to budget for food, shelter, water, clothing, transportation. We're going to lay all that at the two of you together. And then we're going to see how much of this debt we can knock off.

And, oh, by the way, you're probably going to pick up some hospital shifts and things, honey, on the weekends and get your income from 180 to 280 and so we can knock this out quick and keep our home because I think that that's probably really what needs to happen. But until you've worked a plan that the two of you are working together and you're making all the progress you can make and you've squeezed every sacrifice out of that budget that you can and you've worked that plan for four or five months and you still aren't making progress until you've done that. I wouldn't sell. Yeah.

And part of that I'm going to, we're going to gift you every dollar premium and it's going to be real simple. It's going to take you about a half hour for the first one. Get the bank statement, you and your husband together, list out all the expenses that could happen in the next month, list out all the income that's coming in. It's probably going to be more income than you realized and more expenses than you realized, but that'll at least give you a picture of reality and help you take the next step.

Stop investing for retirement, stop going out to eat, stop going on vacation. Write it all down, honey. You're just stuck. And no, we're not going to yell at you we're going to help you, okay? And y'all can do this. Wendy, I think you've got numbers that'll do it. I don't know what you're spending on all these various issues with the children, but other than that, your budget sounds very doable. So I want you to dig in and really put numbers to all of these issues and then see where the. That leaves your family. If after doing that for five or six months and you're from a point of peace, you make the decision to sell the house. I would. This is the Ramsey show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create action, amazing relationships. Number one bestselling author of the book Breaking free from Broke, and the hottest YouTube show out there, George Camel with a K Ramsey personality. He's my co host today. Open phones at triple 8825-5225 Kristen starts this hour off in. Well, I'm gonna have to push the right button.

There it is. Kristen's in Syracuse, New York. Hi, Kristen. How are you? Hi.

Good. Thank you so much.

Good. How can we help you?

So I'm wondering if I should go back to nursing school to get my nurse practitioner degree this fall. I keep going back and forth because I had my second baby a few months ago, and I went back to work part time. I've been back for about a month, and I was full time before, and I feel like I'm in a sweet spot. I feel happier at work. I feel, like, more patient and kinder with my patients. I feel like life is more manageable than when I was full time after I had my first baby. So I'm nervous to take on, like, another endeavor.

Why would you, at this time?

Why would I take. Oh, well, I mean, I don't want to do bedside nursing forever. I would like to become a nurse practitioner, and they. I mean, I. It would be less.

But to justify the expense, you'd be full time.

Oh. Oh. Um. Well, my. My dad offered to pay for it, so I feel like I'm so grateful still.

You're gonna have to go. You're gonna have to go do the work. He's gonna pay for it. And to justify the expense of doing this, you would want to be full time to.

Oh, yeah. After, um. After I get the degree.

Yeah.

Working part.

And you're telling us that you're happier part time, so there's some conflicting views here. So what do you actually want to do?

I mean, that's what I was trying to figure out. Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna. I don't know how it will be. Like, I want to set my family up for success in the future so.

That, like, was this a financial thing? Do you guys need more money?

Like, I mean, I don't. I would like to have more money, like, for. To be able to.

What does your husband make, Kristen?

Well, he probably makes the past few years, like, 25 to 30, and then I've brought in, like, 60, and we're. I'm very fortunate because I have a lot of support from my parents, so I'm debt free. But, like, I. My mom.

How old are you?

Let's. I'm 33.

Okay.

Why is he only making 25?

He could make a lot more. I kind of.

What does he do?

He's a builder.

Full time?

No, no.

We've been trading off on childcare, but he definitely could work a lot more. I've been encouraging him to work a lot more. I feel like he was kind of raised, like, by the mindset of, like, just making enough to get by. Just making enough to get by.

Once you're 33, it's not your parents fault. It's your fault.

Right.

I don't care how he was raised. He ain't working much.

Mm hmm.

Maybe that. Maybe the way he got to not working much is his parents weren't motivated people. The family were people that sat around, did as little as they could do. But it's time to grow up now. You got kiddos. And he needs to get his button gear.

Mm hmm.

Yeah, a lot more. You need to go back to school.

Are there other jobs?

You. Here's the net result, okay? Your husband sits on his thumbs, you're working part time, and you're freaking grown ups who live off your parents.

Yeah.

That's the net result. Your mom and dad ought to cut you all off so you could grow up. Y'all need to step up. No, you don't need to go back to school in this setting, because you're bailing this whole situation out because nobody's doing anything but you. And. No, I think we need to address his work career aspirations, and he needs to go be somebody. And then you can pick up more hours as a nurse. And if everything's rocking and rolling and you're quit taking money from your parents and you're running your own lives and you're doing pretty good, and you decide, hey, I really. I want to throw my shoulders back. I want to be a nurse practitioner. I really want to go do this for me. Not just because my husband doesn't work much and not because I'm. My dad's willing to pay for it. Good lord, no. How about you want to go be somebody? That's when you should go do it. Yeah.

I think we need a bigger reason here than just like, well, I want to set up my family for success.

Not.

But not.

That's not it.

That's. That. That's code for my husband doesn't make any money, and my mom and dad give us money. That's what that's code for.

So you'll need some independent success.

Yeah, yeah. And you guys ought to get, you know, lined up, get yourself going. You have the ability with a nursing degree to work as much as you want to work or as little as you want to work. And until you're running that through and he's got his career off and going and his work ethic issues addressed, and you guys get off the dole from your mom and dad, and that's not a blessing. It's enabling at this point. So, yeah, y'all need to it be good for y'all. Be good for your mom and dad, be good for your husband, to have the dignity of running the lane by yourself, putting the ball in the hoop and go, we just scored. That's important for people. The sense of, I'm in control of my destiny. I know it and I care about it.

That kind of mojo is what will carry you to actual success.

Yeah. And then when you got that stuff going and you call in and you go, hey, I want to. I want to step up one more level. I want to level up and be a nurse practitioner. Yeah, we can talk about that. And then if you want, at that point, if you wanted to accept a gift and your dad wanted to pay for that, that's fine. But this is all just masking over the fact that y'all aren't dealing with it. And that's. That's what I want y'all to do for your sake.

Doesn't affect us, but that's around as we take calls. A lot of people want to go back to school because they're sort of in this conundrum, life crisis, and they just think going to school will hopefully solve everything.

Yeah.

It's rarely the right next step. It just seems to be the thing I can.

It's where I go to. To escape, because we've told people that you automatically make more money if you increase your education, and that's not true now. It would be true in her case, because nurse practitioners do make more. Okay, but, but you know, this general, vague thing of. Okay, so the answer to everything is go back to school. No, really? Not. Not unless you're already successful, and then you want to just add some tools to your already successful belt, or you're going to take a complete left turn and go into something that requires some certifications that you don't have, then you can do that. But, you know, all college is not good. The right college, the right study in the university is excellent. But when you get a degree in left handed pump puppetry or german polka history, and that's not her. She's not trying to do that. And you know, you're going to end up a deeply in debt barista. That's what you end up. And so all college is not good. That's not, you know, that's a misnomer. And we've told people a lie about that. And then we financed it, and we give a 17 year old $100,000 debt who's never done anything, then Sallie Mae.

And the colleges go, we can make a lot of money off these people.

Yeah. Let's go raise tuition, screwing their constituency. And now we got a trillion and a half in student loan debt. A trillion. Can you even spell that? This is the Ramsey show. Thanks for hanging out with us, America. We're so glad you're here. Open phones at triple 8825-5225 George, I'm sorry. Pumped about this total money makeover weekend that we are doing. It's coming up in just a few weeks, May 10. And, man, it's absolutely, it's going to be all the Ramsey personalities, May 10 and 11th, all day Friday, our Friday afternoon, all day Saturday. And we're going to walk you through everything from the very beginning, all the way through wealth and generosity. And by the time you leave, you're going to be so jacked that you're going to know you can do this. Yeah.

Whether you're crushing it with money or it's crushing you, this event is going to give you some inspiration, motivation, some knowledge. And again, we're covering, of course, the core Ramsey principles, but we also have Ken Coleman talking about how to make more money and Deloney talking about how to ease anxiety, Rachel talking about comparisons, and I'll be talking about homeownership, how to pay off the house early, how to get a house. Dave's going to be hitting the baby steps. Generosity, investing via the debt, snowball all.

Be speaking as well. Everybody's going to be there. We're going to do a lot of Q and a with you guys. It's here on campus at Ramsey, at the Ramsey live Event center. And we're, we going want you to be with us there. The tickets are not sold out yet, but they're very close. It's May 10 and 11th. The platinum plus is gone. The platinum, there's just a couple of, in the vip, there's a few of, and then general admission is available as well. So we would love to have you with us. Be there. Don't miss this. We're going to walk you through every dollar. We're going to walk you through everything you need and bring, bring your reluctant spouse and spend the weekend. You're going to leave all knit together, ready to go. And you can even bring your friend who thinks you're crazy because you're doing this Ramsey stuff. And by the time they leave, they're going to be crazy.

Maybe, maybe you pay for their ticket. That'd be fun.

Yeah, they should generosity. There you go.

So it's going to be a good time. We got smart money. Happy hour live with, with the audience on Friday night. And if you want to come even earlier, come watch the Ramsey show right.

Here on the glass.

I'll be hosting that day. So that may be a selling point. May not be.

I think it's a big one. Check it out, folks. Ramsaysolutions.com events Parker's in Bozeman, Montana. Hi, Parker. Welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hi, Dave. How you doing?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hey, so I was wondering, I'm self employed. I'm 23 years old. I've got $2200 a month mortgage payment. That's just me. I don't rent out any bedrooms or nothing. And then I have about $160,000 in consumer debt. It's a couple trucks, a bunch of trailers, a bunch of equipment. It's all for my business. It all makes me money. I've cut the excess off. I'm really, I've got a few loans that I'm starting to get to the point where I could pay them off here, you know, sometime in the next six months. I'm starting to buckle down. And I'm not buying anything new. I'm trying to pay stuff off. I'm working 80 hours on a light week, you know. And.

What'S your profit gonna be in this calendar year?

This year, I'm, it's looking like I'm gonna take home around 250,000.

Okay. All right. And your questions?

Well, a lot. So I'm to the point where I could use an employee. I have more work than I can get done on myself. I'm falling behind. With that said, if I were to hire a guy, I need to buy another pickup.

No, you don't. You got enough junk.

Well, we, you know, primarily I drive in and out of job sites, and right now I can't. I actually. I have enough for myself, but I've been having one of my brothers help me, but I'm, you know, sitting at home trying to take care of stuff. If I were to full time him, I would need something. I would be buying it with cash.

You got $160,000 in debt on a bunch of other equipment, correct? Yeah. And you keep figuring out ways that. You kept figuring out ways to not pay that off. No, I want. What's wrong with just hiring a guy that has a truck and tell him, go get the work done?

I guess it's just a liability aspect of it.

It's not a liability.

Just if something were to happen to it, I don't want to, I guess, have him. It's also really hard to find a good employee. I had. I had one, actually, a guy in the same position as you were.

That's a different subject than he has a truck or not. Yeah. Fair. Yeah.

How much money do you have?

Right. Right now I only have about $15,000.15. Like liquid?

Yeah, 15.

One five. Because it's. I'm getting eaten up on these payments.

So that's why I've been trying to. Are you 28?

23.

Okay. All right. Because you sound like you're trying to out earn your stupidity. Yeah, I did that a lot. I did that all through my twenties. It didn't work for me. You got. You got to quit out. I mean, because you. You're not afraid of hard work and you know how to make money. You just hadn't had it figured out how to keep any of it yet. It.

Yeah, yeah, 100%.

You're a hard working dude and you're a great entrepreneur because you got about six ideas every minute and a half. I think you're going to be amazing. I think you're going to really make a lot of money in your life, but you've got to tame that monster of thinking you can out earn your stupidity. So here's what I would advise you to do. As the owner of a brand called Entre Leadership, where we coach small business people all the time, I would hire someone if that. The work that they are doing is going to make me more than they cost me. Okay, so you said I can't get all the work done, so you're going to be able to get the work done now and make that money that you couldn't make if you. It was just you by yourself. That justifies a hire from a business perspective. And. And what will it cost to hire that person? What. What kind of a. What kind of an income would you need to pay them?

Oh, gosh, I'd be shooting for, you know, 40 hours a week and, you know, $25 to $30 an hour, depending on, you know, just depending on experience, talking.

50, 55 grand somewhere in there.

Yeah. Yeah. Right. So if you buy. If you hire somebody for $50,000 a year and you say, I'm gonna pay you, I'm gonna pay all of your gas, and I'm going to pay, in addition to that, $200 a month for you to use your truck.

Got it.

Then you don't have to buy a truck.

Yeah, that's a better idea.

Yeah, yeah. And then. And later on, you may want to buy a truck. Now, what is all this other equipment?

So, like, a lot of them. A lot of them are like dump trailers. I've got 14 of them, and I rent them all out on a monthly basis to contractors throughout the valley. So I still owe some on those just because I didn't, when I started this up, when I was 20, I didn't really have any savings.

You still barely have any savings. How much has changed?

I do now, and I don't have much, but. So I got debt or, you know, I got loans to. To get myself started and get my foot in the door.

Yeah, and then you went. Then you went big.

Yeah, and then I keep trying to, like you said, out.

You're really good at justifying every purchase as long as you can tell yourself it's gonna make you money.

Because here's the thing about. Here's the wonderful thing about an entrepreneur. We never think it's gonna fail. Yeah. And that's. That's me. I never do anything that's gonna fail. Yet 90% of my ideas, actually, in hindsight, sucked. I made all of my money and my brand impact on the Dave Ramsey brand over the last 30 years. On about 10% of my ideas, I survived the other 90% of my brilliance, which was awful. And so it's painful. And when you go in debt, you magnify the size of your mistake. So what I would also prescribe for you then, sir, I'm going to send you a copy of the book entre leadership which was a number one best seller on how I grew this business from a card table in my living room to what it is, to which is a 300 million dollar business with 1100 team members. Okay. I'm gonna send you that copy of that book free. And you read. Now, the two things I want you to do is don't buy a truck. Hire a guy with a truck. Parker. And then the second thing I want you to do is you are also good at living on nothing because you work all the time.

So I want you to take every dollar you can find and start throwing it at. List these debts on these, on these, all your debt. Equipment and everything. Smallest to largest and attack it. The smallest one when it's gone. Attack the next one. When it's gone, attack the next one. And I want you to clear all of this debt in one year because you're, you know, you're 23. Just go do it. You're amazing. You're amazing. Now, don't screw this up. Go do it. This is the Ramsey show. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Open phones at 888-25-5225 thanks for hanging out with us. George Camel, Ramsey personality is my co host. Sarah is in Pensacola, Florida. Hi, Sarah. How are you?

Hi.

Good.

How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I'm calling because I recently, I'm pretty much a single married mother of two. And I just recently had to get a restraining order against my husband in January. Either way, I am left with the responsibility and finances of two incomes. Now, on just one, I've done a the budget on the app, on the everydollar app, and I am just consistently on the red. I've done everything to try to bring all my expenses down the best way I could. On just me and my two kids, I've done pretty good. But what really is, it's my rent and I can't move until my lease is up because I don't want to break a lease.

So how much? Let me stop a second, honey. Okay, so a restraining order. So he was physically abusive?

Yeah, around Christmas. It was the last straw.

Yeah.

So I.

How long have you been. How long you been married?

Five years.

Okay. I'm so sorry.

Okay.

Okay. What do you make, honey?

Well, my salary is 55. 55,576.

What do you do?

I work for United States Postal Service.

Okay. And how old are your babies again?

Six and four.

Is everybody safe now?

Yes. The restraining order has a space at the home? Yes.

Well, they're not magic. So. But that. But it. But so far it has worked, right?

Yes.

Why'd you hesitate?

Because he's popped up. But, you know, as soon as I told him, get out of here, I'm going to call the cops, he pretty much runs, but he doesn't make it easy for me. But I. And what I mean by that.

How many times has he popped up?

Twice so far.

Since January.

January 10? Yes, sir.

Okay. Okay. So let me help you with a couple things. Sadly, because we help with people with financial crises, I've been in these situations many times in the last 30 years, and so I've been forced to learn a little bit about it more than I wanted to. Okay? Because it's a filthy, horrible thing that you have endured, and I'm very sorry for you. The next time he shows up, don't threaten to call the cops. Call them. Put him in jail.

Okay, okay.

Quit playing games with this guy. He needs to go away. He's bad, period. That's your uncle Dave, who loves you telling you that. Okay? No screwing around with this. He goes to jail. He violated a restraining order. He is threatening you and the children. If he pops up again, he's going to pop in behind bars. I got you. Pop up, buddy. I'll put you. Put you where you can't breathe, okay? So I'm done with him. He's scum. Okay? Period. And I've got to tell you that real directly and real loud, because he has told you for five years two things really often, and if you're not careful, you start to believe them. One is, is that you'll never make it without him. And two is that he's really sorry. Well, he is really sorry. But I'm not talking about an apology here. I'm just talking about a sorry human being. Okay? So he ain't sorry. He's abusive. And you are a thousand times better than he's been telling you for five years. You're gonna make it. You're gonna be fine. And we're gonna put a team of people around you to make sure you do, okay?

And you are gonna break your lease because you can't afford it. How much is the payment?

1750.

Okay, so we're gonna. We're gonna have our. One of our financial coaches serve you at no cost to you. When we get off the phone, we're going to hook them up with you, and they're going to meet with you. And on your behalf, they're going to call the landlord and tell the landlord that the husband in the building has been beating his wife, and she can't afford the lease now that she threw him out like she should have five years ago. Okay. And the landlord is going to have some mercy and get the house rented to somebody else, and you're going to get something you and the kids can afford. You are not trapped, and you can make it without him. You make $55,000 a year. The lady that I'm talking to is articulate and intelligent.

Thank you.

Aren't you? Aren't you?

Yeah, the best that I can, mister.

Yeah, you are. I mean, every. Everything I've heard was intelligent. Didn't you, George?

Yes. You are a warrior. If you survive the crap from him, you're going to survive anything.

Yeah. Okay, so how much debt do you have other than this lease? That's a problem?

Well, that's the thing. I, um. I don't have a car payment, and I have two secured credit cards each for $400, but they've. I've paid them up.

Good. So you don't have any debt there?

No.

We'll convert you to a debit card on that. You're not going to spend money you don't have. You got 55,000 coming in. So your payments are food, lights, water, shelter. What else?

Mainly what it is is that I'm not really taking home that much. See, when he. In the beginning of year and I got this restraining order, he also took all of our savings and money.

Yeah.

So he cleaned us out.

And we're also going to help you contact an attorney and get that back because it's not his, it's yours. And he left two little kids behind and he's not paying any child support, and he's going to get the benefit of doing that, too.

Yeah, I started him on. I started the child support, but it takes a minute, you know? Yeah, but, yeah, I had to go back to that in the beginning when he did that, in order for me to pay the rent, I had to take a loan out against my 401K.

Okay, we're going to get that. So.

Yeah, I'm not taking home all that, so.

And the other thing is you probably have too much taxes coming out of your check.

Yeah, that's another thing.

Was he handling all the money before?

No, we were both doing it. Okay.

How big a tax refund?

That's the thing. We. I owe. We owe. We owe $3,000, so I'm paying that, too.

Oh, you're not. He is.

Well.

He doesn't have legal options here. He gets to pay this stuff.

Oh, well, he's, he's relinquished our responsibility.

He doesn't get to, he doesn't get, decide that the judge will help him with that.

He may have as a husband and a dad, but financially speaking, he can't.

Get, the judge is going to go. Innocent spouse syndrome. Boom. You can file a code with the IR's that this debt with them is the result of your husband and it's called innocent spouse. There's a whole form that does it. We can help you do that, too. And then he gets to pay the 3000. Ding ding. That's how that works. So what you need is you need some people in your corner that know how to fight some of this and get you back on balance. And we're just the ones. We're going to help you, okay?

Oh, yes, sir. Thank you.

You're going to, you're going to be okay. You're going to have to make some moves that aren't comfortable to get stabilized and get a sustainable situation after all this mess because you have less income now to deal with. But you now have control of your life again and you're safe again. Okay?

Yes.

If he pops up again, say, Dave, I'm calling the cops.

Say it, Dave, I'm calling the cops.

There we go. There you go. We love you, darling. You hold on. We're going to pick up and we're going to take care of you. This is the Ramsey show.

Hey friends, it's Ken Coleman and I've got some big news.

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Go to ramsaysolutions.com store. Thanks for helping us, America. We're so glad you're here. Ken Coleman's get clear assessment has helped thousands of people. Literally almost a hundred people have taken the get clear career assessment. And we're excited to announce his new book, find the work you're wired to do, which will show you how to enjoy your results and get specific in your job search and find work you enjoy. So who are you? Who you are, why you're wired that way, what you want to do professionally, how to get there and the get clear assessment comes with the book. A code is built into each book, a unique code. And so if you want to find the work you're wired to do, check this out. Take the get clear assessment. You can get it@ramsaysolutions.com. Store it is happening now, baby, now. So you don't want to miss that. Today's question comes from Ethan in New Jersey.

He says, what is your take on car leases? I view it as a, quote, rental expense, such as renting before you can afford a house. I hope I'm not fooling myself, but I've been driving cars that are within three years old. Keep the payments on auto pay, I drop it at the dealership. When anything goes wrong, the dealership takes the depreciation hit, and it only costs me $300 a month. I feel like I can't go wrong with this method. Am I right, or do you see this as a big scam? Oh, boy. Well, the reason dealerships push leases so hard is because it's what they make the most money on. You're taking the depreciation hit, not the dealership.

It's built into the $300, bubba. You think you're gonna, you're gonna lease a car that's worth $20,000 or $30,000 and you're going to turn it back in, is worth 25, and you didn't cover the five. Of course you did. It's built into your, built into your little payments, buddy. So, yeah, no, it's not like renting a house. Not at all. Nothing like renting a house. It's just an alternate way of financing. It is the most expensive way to operate a car. Right? Yeah.

I mean, I talk about this in the book, breaking down all the ways they screw you with a lease and all of the ins and outs and the bells and whistles, the stuff they don't actually tell you at the dealership when they just show you the shiniest car in the lot and say, you could drive away at this thing. $300. It's better than a car loan. Just lease it, man. That's what smart people do. And they're fooling you. Ethan, I guarantee. You're a young guy, you like driving a nice car, but that thing's driving you. And so, no, this is different than renting for a lot of reasons. And at the end of it, you hand back in this car and you just get another payment and get another payment. And you can do that your whole life and not build any wealth. That's the problem.

Yeah. And you are covering all of the expenses. You don't think a car company is going to let you drive their car around and they lose money on it? No, you're covering it. And you're. You're one of their most profitable customers. They're making more on you than they are on just about anybody else. So the best deal in the car world is a two year old to three year old car that you pay cash for. That's the best deal in the car world. And all of them go down in value like a rock. That's where Chevy got that, like a rock. And so, you know, it's. They lose their. You just lose your butt on cars. That's just. It just goes with the territory. And so there is no scam, there is no pee that can be hidden under a different shell that keeps that from happening. When you're driving a $50,000 car in 20 minutes, it's going to be worth 40. When you're driving an $80,000 car in 20 minutes, it's going to be worth 60. Just. That just goes with the territory, okay? And so the trick is, is to drive the thing that costs you the least money and losses of value and in payments and interest.

No payments and interest. While you build some wealth to where you have enough money that losing $10,000 doesn't matter anymore, because then you can afford to drive something that you're losing your butt on. And that's cars, boats, sea doos, side by sides, snowmobiles, zero turn mowers, anything with a wheel or a motor. And don't talk to me about your $7,000 long tractor while your kids college fund isn't funded. I'll yell at you for being stupid. Don't do that. Okay? And that this is the crap that we do in America because we're all concerned about what we drive. And it's the largest thing we buy that goes down in value. The old boy that called here years ago, and he's like, dave, my truck payment, $700 said, how much is your house payment? I live in a double wide. It's 500. I said, roy, if your truck payments larger than your house payment, you might be a redneck. Seriously. Oh, my gosh.

That's why.

That's America, right? That's who we are. I did the same stuff, too, when I was back.

So you can justify it when you see the shiny car in the lot.

Rationalize.

And they're happy to justify. Tell you. And the craziest part is, FTC doesn't have to. They don't define a lease's debt. So they don't have to federally disclose interest on these leases.

What George is saying is the Federal Trade Commission, when you borrow money on a car lot, requires they give you one of those disclosure forms that shows you the interest rate and the total interest going to be paid. You don't get one of those on a lease because it's not technically debt. But when I take my financial calculator and back into it, the average lease is charging you about 14.2% interest. It's the most expensive way to operate a vehicle. Tom's in Denver. Hi, Tom. How are you? Hey. Thank you, guys.

I'm doing well.

And thanks for taking my call and for the total money makeover. I know I speak for millions when I say that it's helped change and heal my life in the world. Desperately in need of healing. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

How can we help?

Yeah. I was hoping to get your feedback on. I'm on baby step six. And wondering if it's wise for me to sell my home and move to. And work in a different city and state. In order to push me into baby step seven and beyond. I wanted to get. What would Dave say about that? Not unless you need to do it anyway. So, I hate Denver. And you desperately will want to be somewhere else. And the other job sounds much more appealing. There are other reasons to move other than what you're saying. Paying is there. Right? Is there? I would say so. Cost of living is a big one. But where are you going? Where are you thinking about going? So, Amarillo, Texas. And also Anderson, South Carolina, and Columbus, Indiana. Those three have become the top three.

Is it just you at the home?

I am. I am the only person in the home and owning the home. Correct. Okay. What do you do? I recently I was a FedEx courier. But recently they started closing down stations and replacing us with contract workers. So I got a job as a kiln technician in Coors Tech. It's a company that works industrial ceramics. Okay. And so, what would you do if you moved to these other cities? That's the question I was going to ask is you'd recommend finding a job first before even thinking about moving to another city.

That's how I.

So here's the thing. Okay. You presented the question as, would I do this to just become debt free? No. Would I do this and to become debt free? Because it's a part of an overall strategy that I want to do to make my life better. I'd rather live somewhere else. I'd rather do something different. And my time here is done. It's time to move to one of these other things. You. You've been researching these other cities for some reason. And if it's a. As a part of that, you move from an expensive Denver into an inexpensive amarillo, and you can pay cash for a house in the process and get a career field that you love and have the quality of life and the future that you love in your mind. And it's all mapped out. Yeah, I would do that. Yeah. But would I move to Amarillo and not have a job and hate my life and hate Amarillo also? I could say I was debt free. No.

Right.

And Tom, to be clear, are you saying you would pay cash for a home in any of these new cities?

That would be. Yeah, that would be, you know, by far the only option for me would be to buy cash for a house and also keep my three six month income. How did you pick those three cities? It's really been over past six years. So I visited Anderson and fell in love with it. Okay. And also, frankly, just, it's quite a bit cheaper. And it is that. Yeah. And. Yeah. And I have a lot of family out in Amarillo and also some friends in Columbus, Indiana that are willing to kind of work with me in terms of a living situation and working situation.

So you got some homework to do. I'd go look for jobs in those areas, see what the houses actually cost, see if you can actually afford it in cash with the equity and proceeds, and then you can make your move.

Yeah. If you can build a life with every component of your life, that's better. And one of those is you become debt free while doing it. Absolutely. I would do that. You're single. There's nothing holding you there. Sure. This is the Ramsey show live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsey show where we help people build well, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. George Camel, Ramsey personality, is my co host today. He's the author of the book breaking free from Broke, a number one best seller. He's also the host of this George Camel show, which is a very popular YouTube show on the Ramsey networks. And of course, is the co host of the smart Money Happy Hour as well. This hour we're going to be doing a baby steps millionaires theme hour. Now, what does that mean? It means we're going to talk to real millionaires on the air and find out about them to see if you look at them and say, I could be one like that one. Some of them are so unusual in their situation, you can't be like them. Some of them, you have a excellent chance of actually being better than they are.

So we're going to talk to real ones, not your broke brother in law with an opinion who votes wrong. We don't need his help with this wealth building thing. So what is a millionaire? It is not. George. Someone who makes a million dollars a year.

That's true. And it's not an opinion. It's just basically an accounting term. When you actually look at what it takes to create net worth, what you own minus what you owe, assets minus liabilities, that's your net worth. You don't get to decide what that means. It's not up for interpretation.

Yeah, it's. It's a simple math thing. What you own minus what you owe equals your net worth. When that's over a million, you're a millionaire. Well, I don't feel. It's not a feeling. Well, no one should. It's not a should.

Well, a million dollars isn't that much. It doesn't matter.

Not a moral construct. It is an amount of money in a net worth. Did you do it or not? Simple. Very objective, not subjective at all. You either is or you isn't that simple. And you. You people that have all these political opinions and all this bull crap that was taught to you by your communist college professor, you're confused about how this stuff works. Okay? It is a simple thing. It's not. And I heard a congressman the other day, of course, some congressmen are dumber than a rock. We know that. They say he's not a millionaire. He doesn't make a million dollars a year. And I'm like, are you a congressman? And you're this dumb? So it's not. It's not an income amount, and you don't have. You're not a millionaire. You don't have a million dollars cash. It's not a cash amount. It's a net worth. That's all it is.

If you add up your retirement accounts, the equity in your home and your car, the cash you have in your bank account, that's it.

That's that. You know, any money or things that you could sell and turn into money, that. That is your net worth. That's an asset. Right. And so that's who we're talking to. Real millionaires, not broke people with an opinion. And how did they do it? All right, let's talk to Kathleen in Minneapolis. Your net worth. Kathleen.

Well, good afternoon. It's great to be on the show and an honor. My network as of this morning is $2.7 million.

2.7, good for you. Give me a little breakdown on that. How much retirement, how much house and so on?

Well, I've got 1.9 million. That is in mutual funds, that's iras, HSA accounts, cash and savings. That also includes my emergency fund. And yes, I've had one forever. I've got about 720 in real estate and that includes our primary home as well as a rental property that we have. And I've got probably about $90,000 in cars. And you guys will love this. We just trade it up, traded in our cars, wrote checks for the balance.

Good for you.

And my husband and I. Husband, I just bought three year old cars because we never buy new cars and we never will buy new cars.

What kind of cars?

Just so people know what real millionaire is driving.

Sure.

I have a 2021 Toyota Highlander hybrid because I'm sick of paying for gas. And then my husband bought a 2021 Toyota Tacoma. He did buy two f. We paid him off quickly when we were younger and he drove one for 15 years and he just traded the second one in for that was ten years old for the tacoma.

Amazing. Wow.

Millionaires drive Toyotas, Lexus, Acura.

Yeah.

So how old are you, Kathleen?

Well, my husband and I will be 64 this year. So we're heading into retirement soon.

Yeah.

Same age as you, Dave.

Yeah. All right. So how much of the 2.7 million did you inherit?

You know, we were millionaires before we inherited anything. And what we did inheritance. Both are, both our parents have, have passed away, our mothers and fathers. My husband just about a year ago inherited about $90,000. I inherited about five years ago, $300,000. And that is part of our net worth. But it's all in our retirement account.

It's all after you were millionaires. After millionaires being very clear, you're not millionaires because of inheritance. It added to after you were already millionaires.

Correct.

Okay, cool.

And you know what's interesting? I've read that 80% of people that inherit money spend it within the first twelve months instead of, you know, doing what you should do, which was put it immediately away for, to just boast, bolster our retirement account.

Yeah. I mean, you got 400 grand extra here between these two things. Yeah. So what has been the range of your income through the years? The worst year you had, I guess probably when you started up to your best year?

Well, you know, it's interesting. Our first four years of marriage, our gross income was only $16,000. But we still had 35% of our annual income. Gross income in an emergency fund.

Wow.

And that was huge. In my opinion. If we look at those 1st 20 years, it was about 65,000 for both of us. Last 18 years. I actually went and looked at my Social Security account so I'd know, you know, how they listed out there in preparation for this? About 195 gross. And my husband semi retired today from the printing industry driving a school bus. I stepped up and took a bigger role so that I could make a little bit more money.

What were your careers when you were working?

My husband worked in the printing industry and local printing, like, you know, printing paper for a university. I've been in the benefits space, consulting, account management and sales, which also includes benefits like smart dollar. So wellness benefit for employer employees for most of my career of 30, 35 years.

Thanks for the plug. Very good. So, four year degrees.

My husband went to trade school. I got a four year degree that I finally finished when I was 50. And, yeah, that's where we're at. My degree was in organizational communications and business.

Gotcha. And your GPA?

My GPA was 3.4, unless you count the end when it went up. Because I was older and taking classes I liked.

Older and wiser.

Older and wiser. And writing a check for.

Do you think talking to the younger version of you, you could still do this in America at a day?

I think I could do better if I could talk to the younger me.

Okay. Why?

Well, I think, you know, my advice, really simple to everyone, including my younger self, would be to save more earlier, floss more, and use more sunscreen.

If you do those two things, you'll.

Be happier by the time you're 60.

Good teeth, good skin, good nest egg. I like it.

That's right.

That's a good life.

That's classic. I love it. Kathleen, you're amazing. Thank you so much for calling in and sharing. That's a real millionaire. That's who we're talking to this hour. The phone number is 888-825-5225 this is the Ramsey show. Here's the thing about investing advice. You can find it just about anywhere, but that doesn't mean it'll always help you with your personal goals. Here's another option. Check in with a smartvestor pro. These financial advisors can review your plan or help create one that's perfect to you. To find a smartvestor pro in your area, go to ramsaysolutions.com smartvestor. Go to ramsaysolutions.com smartvestor.

Ramsey Solutions is a paid non client promoter of participating pros. Learn more@ramsaysolutions.com smartvestor.

Thank you for joining us, America. This is a baby steps millionaires theme hour. We're talking to real millionaires day before yesterday, we launched Rachel Cruz's latest book, second in her children's book series. I'm glad for where I am at this very moment. Live if you are in Phoenix, Arizona. She is at Desert Ridge Barnes and Noble from one to two, your time today, which is right now, signing books and reading the books and talking to you guys. Tomorrow she'll be in Los Angeles Thursday, April 18 at the Barnes and Noble at the Grove from seven to 08:00 p.m. Reading the story and signing the books, teaching kids about gratitude. The first book was about contentment. This one's about gratitude. And it's fabulously done. You'll love it. If you got littles, it's a must. Dallas is in April 20, so that'll be Friday. Lincoln park from one to 02:00 p.m. At the Barnes and noble there. Next week in Atlanta. On Friday, April 27, the Barnes and Noble at Mansell crossing there at Alfreda. And that's from one to 02:00 p.m. And she just left New York City doing a bunch of media up there to head to Phoenix and was in Phoenix today doing that first signing.

So Phoenix, Los Angeles, Dallas and Atlanta for book signings on her new children book. Be sure and check them out. Michael is one of our millionaires on hold here in Springfield, Missouri. Michael, what's your net worth?

2.8 million.

Good for you. Give me a little breakdown by category. How much in retirement house and so on?

151.5 million in rental investments, real estate, 500,000 personal residents, 350 and mutual funds. And then 500,000 cash between savings accounts and business accounts.

Cool. Cool. How old are you?

41.

Good for you. And how much of this 2.8 million did you inherit?

None yet. All my relatives are still alive.

None yet. Okay. It's a good answer. There's still hope. All right. And your, your worst year of making money since you've been working about 20 something years. And your best year of making money? Your best year? Income? Worst your income.

I mean, starting out with just normal 25 to 30,000 a year and slowly growing up to about 100,000 a year by the time I was around 30. And then with, with the COVID Boom. I'm in car sales and real estate. So I hit 400,000 a couple of years there.

That was way to go. Helped as a big help. Yeah. Very nice. So your career as car sales or your career as real estate or both?

Both.

Okay.

About 80, 20. Car sales, 80. Real estate, 20.

Gotcha. Okay. You got a four year degree.

No college.

No college at all. Okay, cool. So what would you tell the younger version of you that's out there listening? Can they still become a millionaire in America? And what would they do?

I believe they can. I actually think the competition might be less if they will seek the trades. I think the sky is the limit. Every time I try to get anything worked on, you can't get anyone to call you back or show up. And I think if those younger guys would, would chase the trades, I think they will be very, very successful.

Yeah. Our friend Mike Rowe would love that, George.

A lot of room for opportunity there and a lot of money to be made. A lot of people to be helped.

Yeah, that's good.

Exactly.

I'm curious. At 41, I mean, you haven't been working that long to accumulate this much. What was the secret sauce here in order to. Obviously the rentals is the big part of this, but even the cash accumulation.

Well, I've been working since I was about twelve.

There. There you go. You have a 30 year career already.

I think I mowed 18 yards when I was 13 years old. I never spent any money. I saved it and saved it. I've never had a credit card. I've never made a car payment. That's impressive. I've had a not applicable credit score my whole life.

There you go.

And I've only had four loans to my first house, my second house and two rentals. The rest were all bought in cash. Day of. And like I said, I've always just worked 60 hours a week and Saturdays and holidays and I've always just. I had a goal when I was in school. I had a goal to be a millionaire by age 30. The counselors and teachers, you know, they all kind of teased and laughed at me, but I didn't make it by 30. But I made it by 32, so I was close.

Wow. And by 41, 2.8 million. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, COVID has really helped the real estate market. The stuff that I went way up in value.

Yeah, that's true. It helped the net worth. It sure did. All the real estate that we own is gone.

500,000.

Yeah. Yeah.

I'd say I gained over 500,000 in one year just in value. Just stuff that I own versus what it was worth a year later. So that helped a lot.

Yeah. Well, way to go, man. Way to go. Congratulations. So, what would you say, over these years, the worst thing you've ever done with money is what was the biggest mistake?

It wasn't a big mistake, but my first big year, when I hit the six figures, all of my expert buddies convinced me I should buy a new pickup for a tax write off. And I probably lost 10,000 on that truck. And I saved about 2000 in taxes. So I figured out real quick that that was not the greatest advice. So I quit doing that.

And you, your buddies are bad at math.

Yeah. This is great. Well done, sir. Congratulations. You're a hero, man. Way to go. Step out in America and go win Jim's in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Hi, Jim. What's your net worth?

About 32 million, Dave.

32 million. Okay, you win the award for the day. Give me a little breakdown on that. What's that?

In about 4 million in land, about ten and a half in real estate .6 iras, five and a half mil in mutual funds, equity investments, about a million and a half cash, and then about between 810 million in my business valuation.

Gotcha. What kind of business?

Manufacturing.

Okay, and how long have you had that?

Me and my wife started it 26 years ago, Dave.

Wow. Okay. Do you mind saying what you manufacture?

Mostly office furniture.

Okay, very cool. Good for you. All right. And how much of the 32 million did you inherit?

Well, two years ago, we inherited a million and a half from my wife's mother.

So you already worth over 30 million before you got any money?

Yeah, yeah. They were farmers in Missouri, 8th grade education. And they ended up with probably $8 million net worth. Unbelievable.

And how old are you? 66. 66. All right, cool. And what's your best year of income and your worst year of income?

Well, before I started my business, they were on worse, you know, 50,000 and then probably about two mil. My best.

Yeah. Okay. Which is how you funded all of this, then. That makes a lot of sense. All right. Very good. You got a four year degree, Jim? I do.

But I served a journeyman tool nightmare apprenticeship. And then I went back to college and got a degree just in industrial industrial technology. So I believe my journeyman's card opened way more doors than my four year degree.

Yeah, for sure. Especially what you do, your training for what you do. And what was your GPA, just for reference?

High school, 2.2.

Okay, very cool. Okay, so you're. You got 26 year old out there, 24 year old out there listening. And there's a bunch of them right this second listening to the show. Literally millions of what should they do if they want to be Jim when they grow up and have $32 million at 66?

I tell them all the time, look for a niche. Look for whatever industry you're in. Figure out, how can I do something better, faster and cheaper? What does somebody need in any industry? There's something out there that's a better way to do it and figure that out and then go after it. Because too many kids, 19 year olds, they want to have a business, they want to have money, and they don't even know what. They don't have a clue what to. You got to learn the business first. Got to learn to trade and then look for a problem to solve.

So you probably in the process, it sounds like you're doing this furniture manufacturing. You've invented some things.

Yeah, we've had, I've come up with a lot of different designs on processes. And it's weird because, not to get off track, but the first person walked at my door that I hired, seven year old man. He walked in wanting to work. Turns out I was actually living in a camper at the time.

Wow.

He drove, he drove 30 miles each way and I couldn't pay him for three months.

Wow.

He was on fire for the Lord. He started telling me about, and I went to a legalistic church, me and my wife. So we had no spirituality. He started telling me about the Lord. About three, four months later, I got saved.

Aha. There we go. That's how it's done. I love it. Sorry to cut you off, Jim. I wish I could hear that whole story. It's fabulous. Hey, folks, Dave here. If you're in baby steps four through seven, join me for the ultimate debt free celebration as we set sail on the live like no one else cruise. We're taking over an entire ship for seven days in 2025. And we'll stop at some incredible places like Turks and Caicos, St. Thomas, San Juan and the Bahamas. We'll also have some special guests joining us, including Stephen Curtis Chapman and Manit Shohan. Book your cabin now@ramseysolutions.com. Cruz, we always teach you there is a price to be paid. To win, you have to live like no one else. If later you want to live like no one else and give like no one else. The millionaires that we talked to most of the time went through a process to become millionaires. This is a baby steps millionaires theme hour. Now, one of the things that we announced earlier in the show, if you weren't around, was the live like no one else. Ramsey Cruz went on the market today.

We are really excited about this. It's a lot of fun. We're going to be going for seven days at sea with Holland America. We've got the entire ship for a Ramsey cruise. I live like no one else cruise. You should not go on this cruise unless you are baby step four, five, six and beyond. If you're still trying to get out of debt, you need to stay home and get out of debt. We'll do another one, maybe, but probably. And this is going to be a lot of fun. It's a seven day cruise, includes Turks and Caicos, St. Thomas, San Juan, the Bahamas. It's incredible. We try to do this in 2020. But of course, this little thing called the Fauci pandemic stopped all the cruises. And about the time we were getting ready to sail, it got canceled. So this is the ultimate free celebrate. Debt free celebration. We want you to come. All the Ramsey personalities will be on the boat the whole week, including me and many other guests as well. Steven Curtis Chapman, many Grammys, award winning 60 something doves, and an all around good guy and a friend is going to be with us.

Manit Shohan from the food channel. Iron chef is going to be with us. Maneet's here in town in Nashville. We become friends as well. Hangs out with us. One of the great country music superstars, Deana Carter. You remember the wonderful song that she's known for, strawberry wine. And so she'll be with us. Some of the Nashville songwriters will be there and many others, too. George Camel, to my right, will be with us. If you want to book your cabin on the cruise, go to ramsey solutions.com cruise. I would suggest you do that immediately. When we announced it and put it out this morning on the web and sent out an email to our database, we actually crashed the cruise website. We shut down the Internet. That's how popular this announcement is. And so if you want to come, we'd suggest you do it. The last time we did this, the one we did not get to take, everybody got refunded because of the Fauci pandemic. But that one sold out in just a matter of weeks. This one will, too, especially based on the activity today. It's going to be a lot of fun, George.

Oh, yeah. And for those of you who have been following the Ramsey plan, and you're in baby step 4567 and you call us and you go, man, I don't know what to do now. We work so hard and we can't. You need to go on a vacation. Some of y'all, you haven't been on a vacation since your honeymoon. And so it's time to take that trip. So start budgeting for it. Make your plans to join us. This is a really fun thing to sort of commemorate the hard work that you've done over the years following these steps. And it's a reminder it's time to live like no one else. It's going to be a blast.

That's how it works. All right, open phones here. If you are a millionaire, we want to talk to you. We want to hear how you did it. The phone number is triple 8825-5225 Houston, Texas. Carlton and Felicia are with us. Hey, guys, what's your net worth? They were at almost 1.2 million. Cool. Give me a little breakdown by category. How much retirement, how much house and so on. Okay, so combined retirement, we're about 600k. Personal residence and property, we're about 425k. Liquid cash, about thirty k, and then another 130k in investments. Good for you. Well done. And how old are you guys? Well, Dave, I'm 50 and Felicia's still not older than me. Smart man. Nor will she ever be like, very good. He's a math guy. Good for you. All right, how much of this did you guys inherit? 60.

60,000.

Okay. After you were millionaires or how long ago? I think it was probably close to that point. I think we're already on our way, pretty much. Probably 98% of the way there. So is it fair to say, would it be accurate to say you're not millionaires because you inherited the money? Yes, that'd be fair to say. Okay, I just want to make sure I'm understanding exactly, because that's a. The data that we collect. So what is your best year working and your worst year working? As far as income goes, I'd say our worst year was probably my first year in the army. I mean, Felicia didn't work like that. She stayed at home with our only child, is probably about 18 to 20,000 a year as a private in the army. Wow. And our best year so far would probably this last current year, last year around 2240k. Very good. What do you guys do for a living?

I'm an RN.

And I work in sales. That's. Okay, cool. So obviously, Felicia, you got a nursing degree, right?

Yes.

Okay. And Carlton, you get a four year degree. I did. Yeah, I got a four year degree in, of all things finance. Finance. Very good. All right, and what was your GPA? If I remember correctly, I was just sub of 3.0. Okay, very cool. What about you? 4.04.0. Of course it was. I like it. All right, so you guys are nurse, and you're in sales, and you're 50 years old, and you're millionaires and not because of inherited money. What would you tell a 24 year old that says it can't be done in America anymore? I first start out by saying, that's a lie. And I would probably tell them to, if Google's around, to Google Dave Ramsey as fast as they could so that they would learn what. I appreciate the ad. What have you guys done that caused you to be here? What do you think the secret was?

Well, first of all, I just want to, you know, give my husband gratitude. It was because of him that we are here today. He found you, and I would just say working together as a couple, you know, in the beginning, I was a little hesitant, but, you know, once I got on board and we started working together, you know, things just went by really smoothly, came together, and, you know, here we are today.

How long ago was that togetherness happen? Well, they. We started the plan in 2015, and I don't know, it's in the notes, but we were actually on the show three years ago to do our debtsy screen in studio with you and Ken. All right. Working this process for about nine years. Okay. All right. And so, really, you did this, most of it from your late thirties into fifties? Yeah. Late. Yeah. My late forties. Yeah. Very aggressive.

So just.

Way to go.

You got a decade of focus. Can change everything.

Yeah. Yeah. It's not too late. Yeah. Way to go, you guys. Congratulations. Proud of you. Josh is in Knoxville. Josh, what's your net worth? 1.3 million, Dave. Very good. Give me a little breakdown by category. About 600,000 in the house, about 400,000 in cash, 250,000 in iras, and just about 100,000 in just other assets. Cool. How old are you? 34. Way to go. All right. How much of this did you inherit? Zero. Zero. And what's your best year working and worst year working income? Me and my wife, when we first got married, probably right around 90 to 100,000. And last year would have been the best year? About 275. Cool. What do you do? I actually am a small business owner, and my wife is occupational therapist. But now she homeschools three children and.

Takes care of the house.

And what kind of business have you got? I actually own a commissary business, so we provide items to inmates. Gotcha. Very good. And you have a four year degree? No, actually, I'm a college dropout, Dave. My wife done all the schooling for us. I love it. All right.

It worked out for you, man.

Love it. Way to go. Hey, congratulations, man. 34 years old. You're killing it. Very proud of you. Thank you for sharing your numbers with us. That's a cool young millionaire story. College dropout starts a small business. Knoxville, Tennessee. Taking food to inmates. Worth amazing million three. Don't tell me you can't do it. This is the Ramsey show, our scripture of the day. Luke, 1610. Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much. And whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. Booker T. Washington says, success will always leave footprints. This is a baby steps millionaires theme hour. We're talking to real millionaires. If you're not aware, we have done the largest study, detailed, in depth research of millionaires ever done in North America. We did in depth surveying and understanding of 10,167 millionaires. No one's ever done that before. It's airtight research. We had an outside research firm look over our shoulder to make sure we didn't have any kind of confirmation bias or any kind of research methodology that was off. If you know anything about statistical manipulation or research bias, you have to be real careful of that.

And we knew we would be criticized by the left wing nut jobs, and so we had to be prepared to actually defend this. So the conclusions of this study are airtight. It's data. It's what's known as a fact. It's not an opinion. It's not a feeling. It's not a political stance. And if you don't agree with the conclusions of the study, you're what's known as wrong, because this is data. So here's what we found. 79% of America's millionaires inherited precisely zero. Another 5% got an inheritance, but it was a very small amount, like $5,000 or $40,000 from their grandmother or something, and it was not enough mathematically to make them a millionaire. Another 5%, and we've heard this in the calls today, got substantial inheritance, two or $300,000 after they were already millionaires. And so if you take 79, got nothing. Five didn't get enough to cause it, and 5% got a. Got a bunch. But it was after you put those three together, you got 89% of America's millionaires are not millionaires because of an inheritance. That's nine out of ten of them. There's somewhere around 18 million millionaires in America right now. Nine out of ten of them are not millionaires because of an inheritance.

So when idiots say that on tick tock, they don't know what they're talking about, and they're telling people it can't be done in America today, and they're stealing people's hope, and that's wrong. That's evil. When you steal people's hope, that's evil. You shouldn't do that, especially when you're ignorant or you're a liar. One of the two. And you're one of the two when you tell people that America's millionaires all inherited their money, because you're just wrong.

And they're just cynical. They don't think it's possible for them, and therefore they don't want it to be possible for anyone. That's part of it.

And you hear it. All millionaires inherited their wealth. No, they didn't. All millionaires are crooks. Well, that's absolutely asinine. Who got rich being a crook? You go to jail being a crooked. If you break the law, if you steal from people, they tell people about it. If you're, if you're crooked, people find out about it. Is there a percentage of the wealthy who are crooked? Yes. Is there a percentage of the poor who are crooked? Yes. Are they wealthy because they're crooked? No. Are they poor because they're crooked? No. The crooked, it just happens among the population. Well, all, you got to be famous to be a millionaire. I hadn't talked to a single rock star today, hadn't talked to a single NFL player today, and I hadn't talked to one in these studies. And as a matter of fact, our data tells us that, .8, less than 1%. Eight tenths of 1% of America's millionaires are famous. So they're not Hollywood actors, country music stars, professional athletes. They make up less than 1% of America's millionaires. So, good thing for me, I can't dribble a basketball, so maybe I have to do it another way.

And I'm not, you know, I'm not coordinated enough to, to stay on skates and play hockey at that speed to become a millionaire that way.

Sure.

You don't make me singing.

It's, it's not about income. Now, the people we've looked at, they make good money, but we found in the study a third of them never made six figures in their careers.

33%. Never made a hundred thousand dollars a year. Well, you have to have a high GPA. You got to be brilliant. Well, brilliant doesn't hurt. But the average GPA among millionaires is 3.0. I have a 2.9731 hundredths of a point. I missed it and I'm still pissed. I think beer was involved, but, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, it's, you know, it's. I still. And I'm so stupid. I've become a millionaire twice. Made it, lost it all. Had to do it again. So, I mean, I. And I still pulled it off. So. It is doable. People in America, there is hope. If you want to know more about this study and more about the processes that prove this, read the book baby steps Millionaire. It's a number one bestseller. It's the last book I did. I didn't actually intend on doing another book. The personalities all do books and, I suppose, support them, and that's generally what we do. But I kept running into these hope stealers that were taught by communist professors in college and telling people, America is broken and it can't be done. You can't make it in America. The little man can't get ahead.

And somebody had to rise up and tell the truth, and that's us. So. So I busted out there, did baby steps, millionaires, and it's sold, you know, getting close to a million copies now. And it's number one. Number one. Number one. So thank you, guys, for supporting that. But if you want to read the details of the study, we put the study white paper in the back of the book. So pick that book up, you can read the study, and you can answer the questions for your broke brother in law, who votes wrong and is confused about this stuff. And so it's absolutely ridiculous that people say, you can't make it in America today. You can make it. Is it easy? Lord, no. Are there isms out there? There's always isms because there's always ignorant people. Racism is ignorant. Sexism is ignorant. There's all kinds of isms. There's baldism. People don't let people on shows because they're bald.

That one feels personal.

I mean, yeah, it's upsetting to me. I'm so sorry.

I feel your pain.

Regionalism. We think if you have a southern accent that your parents were cousins. Well, that's not true. I don't live in a trailer. My house is bigger than yours. That's regionalism. Okay? That, you know, there's isms everywhere. Right. So. All right, Rachel is in Washington, DC. Rachel, what's your net worth?

About 1.1 million.

All right, very good. Give me a little breakdown by category.

Got about 350 in the house, about 604 in retirement, about 100 liquid, and about 76 in college.

Cool. How old are you?

41.

Good for you. How much of this did you inherit?

Not a penny.

Zero. Best year working and worst year working.

Of income, our lowest was probably upper thirties. And our best probably this year, looking at 190.

Excellent. Very, very good. What do you do for a living? What? Your careers?

I am a stay at home homeschool mom, and my husband does logistics for the Department of Defense.

Logistics. Okay, very good. He's got a college degree in that?

No, he has one in chemistry.

Okay, what was his GPA? Do you have any idea?

3.0.

Oh, look at that. Just exactly like we said. Very cool. Congratulations. You're a hero. Way to go, Rachel. That's how it's done. So we talked to 2.72.832, 1.2, and 1.3 and 1.1 net worth. 64 years old. 4166-5034 years old. Industrial engineer, furniture manufacturer, college dropout. Doing commissary chemistry. That just became. What did he become?

He was logistics.

Logistics became logistics. From that and the first lady, he got a degree in communications, 3.4 GPA, 2.23.0, and three point. Oh, I rest my case. Boys and girls, here's another small sample, but, and by the way, we'll let you own if you win the lotto. But you are twelve times more likely to be struck by lightning walking 1 mile to the store, statistically, than you are to buy the winning ticket. So try not walking to the store instead. Go to work. Here's an idea. So the lotto. Gee, not happening. Tax on poor people and people that can't do math. That's who plays the lotto. One of the two or both. That puts this hour of the Ramsay show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace. Christ Jesus.

Hey, folks, Dave Ramsey here. You know, budgeting doesn't have to be boring. You just need a budgeting app that's made with you in mind. And that's everydollar. The everydollar app has helped millions of people work the baby steps and take the stress out of planning and managing their money. Start budgeting with everydollar for free right now. Just go to Ramsayslam and download the app today. That's ramseysolutions.com everydollar.