Live from the headquarters of Ramsay Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey personality George Camel, joined by not one, but two compadres tonight. Doctor John Deloney and my good friend Ken Coleman. And there's a reason we went full SportsCenter today with this setup, because we are celebrating the launch of my friend Ken Coleman's brand new book, find the work you're wired to do, which comes with access to his amazing get clear career assessment. And I'm telling y'all, if you are trying to win with money, you've got to be winning at work. And that is something that my friend Ken Harps on. Ken, I have my results and we'll get into that. But I want to talk about why the relationship between work and money?

Yeah, well, let's first look at what David said for decades, which is that your income, presumably from your full time job, but I guess, you know, three part time jobs, whatever it is, but your income is your greatest wealth building tool. That's where you take that money. If you use the baby steps as we've taught, and you're smart with your money, you live on less than you make. You live like no one else. Later, you can live and give like no one else. And so it's making the most of our income. Strikingly, you know, it's not just something Dave has said as though it's, you know, some truth he's pulled out of the air. We did the largest study ever of net worth millionaires, over 10,000. Both of you guys know this. And the, the third largest group of net worth millionaires in the United States were school teachers. And I think to a person in this country, no matter what side of the aisle you're on, I think we could all unite around teachers, make a little bit more money.

Yeah.

And so teachers aren't not wealthy, but what teachers are, are people that are on purpose. They've got a mission in life. They're serving. They're really investing. If you think about it, in the next generation, our greatest resource are children. And so because of that high sense of mission and purpose, they live on less than they make and they invest it like you and Dave teach. And so that really crystallizes this idea of how important the income is. But don't miss the whole teacher part of that story. And John, you get this. You know, you're talking with people all the time. Mental health is at an all time low, and it's coming from a lot of directions, but the workplace is one of the big drivers, one of the huge drivers. And so how is it that you can, how can teachers or anybody become net worth millionaires doing something they're miserable at doing? And we see a lot of teachers leaving, but a lot still have a high calling in it. So the idea around meaning and purpose in the work is a huge driver to you. Being able to be disciplined, to be healthy enough, to actually live on less than you make and ultimately yield the results of investing over time.

So that's how work and money are inextricably tied together.

And we found that as people build wealth, they love what they do. We didn't find many wealthy people who were like, I hated what I did, but I did it for 30 years and I became a multimillionaire.

96% of net worth millionaires said they enjoyed, loved their work. And there's something to that. In fact, I'll throw it to John. What's the psychology behind that?

I was about to say, I'm glad you called out. Like something like teaching, we often think that the work we're, quote unquote, we're called to do means it's pain free. We like it every single day of our life. It's never dramatic. We're never worried about losing our job or our customers going away to their business. That's not it at all. It's when you find the work that you were put on this planet to do and you go all in to learn how to do it and be the best in your craft, you'll overcome any obstacle to see it through. Right. And so I think you just won't keep sticking around if you keep. There's that famous psychology experiment they could never do in the modern era where they're electrocuting dogs. They just, after you get electrocuted enough, you just don't move and you just take whatever life gives you and you just live that quiet life of desperation. And it's those that can figure out, no, no, no. But I know I have a purpose. I've got a way, a path forward. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go make it happen.

Yeah, that's it right there. And so there really is something to having some enjoyment in it. We all understand we gotta be adults and go work and take care of our family, but at the same time, this notion that I can't do something that I really enjoy, and of course, as you know, what we teach in this book and in all the methodology that we've developed, here at Ramsey around work is that there's actual design involved. And then things that I suck at, somebody else is great at.

Thanks for pointing at me.

Well you're great at things that I'm awful at. And here's the other thing, the things that you enjoy drain me. Right. And so this idea that we all have a place where we can kind of fill a role. And again John, back to the psychology of this. And what we really are trying to explain is it's not just a money play. The money is the immediate play. And you can really win with money if you're winning at work. But there's this idea that everybody wants to make a difference. You just kind of long to. Did I make a mark while I was here on this planet? Relational first, but certainly occupational. And so we want people to understand that. But the biggest picture is, is if I'm doing work, I'm good at work, I enjoy work that creates a result that I care about. Guess what? I show up motivated. I'm willing to hustle to John's point, I'm willing to deal with some suffering, whatever that looks like. Because there's a bigger thing at play here. And that's where we win with money.

And the byproduct is career success and professional growth and a bigger income.

And that, what does that come to? That comes to freedom. Everybody wants to be free to live the life they want to live. And more money we have with responsibility and values we have options.

Yeah. When you spend a third of your life at work and you spend 4000 hours, you know, going through high school and it's all leads to this path where we go. I think this is what I want to do. But no one's really taken some deep.

Thought or not how to figure it out.

Yeah.

And that's what we've done with the get clear says this is simple methodology. And when you can use what you do best to do what you love to produce results that matter. Boy that's a really good feeling even on the worst days because you can have a really crappy day but also go I'm still making a difference. And that's key. And so it's self awareness.

That's what this book, the self Awareness tool for professionals.

It's a superpower. John can tell you this from his field. The key to getting healthy is an awareness of what's really at the source of the problem.

Right. And I also think, and Ken and I, you and I haven't talked about this but I think this is also good for supervisors because people are leaving businesses in droves because their leaders are terrible. Like we have a leadership crisis. That's right. And we have choppy waters ahead. And if you have a good boat driver, you can get through choppy waters. If you don't, then it's going to be a mess. And so I think it's important also for leaders to know what are the people that work for me good at? What do they love doing and how can I move some of these tasks so that this person lights up every day and this person lights up every day and I'm not drowning everybody with my top down processes?

That's a great point.

It's cheat code. It's a cheat code.

KeN and I, we, you know, we had a decade of struggle trying to figure this thing out and get to this point. And you've cracked this code to help people. I wish I had this ten years ago.

Yeah.

So I have my get clear assessment results here. I want you to read it out loud.

So real quick, real quick for time. His top three talents, George, we're talking.

About imagination, vaping with a cherry flavor.

I knew he couldn't resist communication and discernment.

And perfect hair. Perfect, perfect hair.

Now the things you love doing most are promoting, leading and creating. And ultimately what you're driven by is creation.

You nailed it. Now it's read my mail.

How does that come out? Give us a 32nd of how that purpose statement shows up every day and.

At work for you.

I'm communicating. I'm here promoting things that I'm passionate about, messages I'm passionate about. And creating is what fuels me when I leave work knowing I created something, a piece of content, a video. That's what fuels me. So go check this out, guys. He has cracked the code. Who you are, why you're wired that way, what you want to do professionally, how to get there, the get clear career assessment along with find the work you're wired to do. It's a combo. You need it. Give it to someone you care about in your life, a spouse, a child, a parent, and they'll figure it out. Ramsaysolutions.com store big congrats, Ken.

Thanks guys. Having me on. Have fun today.

We will. Thanks for visiting us. More of the Ramsay show coming up. AAA 825 225. We'll be right back.

This show is sponsored by Betterhelp. Hey, it's Doctor John Deloney. And one of the most common questions I get is how to get something off your chest. A deep secret you've never told anyone. Or maybe something that happened to you, something you've done that you're worried about, because bringing it to light will disrupt your life. Anything. I say this all the time. Secrets will kill you. But it's hard to know where to start when it comes to talking about scary, dark things. Therapy can be a safe, effective place to get things off your chest, to learn how to say hard things out loud and figure out how to work through whatever's weighing you down. I've personally been blessed to have a great therapist who helps me get those heavy things off my chest. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give better help a try. It's flexible because it's online, so you can suit it to fit your schedule. Just fill out a short questionnaire. You get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. It's time to get it off your chest with betterhelp. Visit betterhelp.com Deloney today to get 10% off your first month.

That's betterhelp. H dash e dash p.com deloney.

Welcome back to the ramsey show. I'm george Campbell, joined by doctor John deloney. Open phones at 8825-5225 Tammy's on the line from tampa, Florida. Tammy, welcome the show.

Hi. Thank you.

Sure.

How can John and I help?

Well, I'm just needing some assistance with stopping giving my ex daughter in law money.

Okay.

I have an awesome tip for this before you even ask your question.

Yeah.

Okay.

You ready?

Yep. Go ahead.

All right. Do you have a pen, paper? You can write this down?

Sure.

You'll. You'll remember it. Okay. All right. Stop giving your ex daughter in law money. That was incredible.

Tammy. Don't let. Don't fall for it.

So why can't you stop giving her money?

Um, well, I did. I I've been giving her money for a long time, trying to help her.

Because what's a long time and how much?

Since my husband died in September and probably about $4,000 total.

Four grand since September?

Yeah. I paid her rent since January. It's $800 a month.

Where's your son in this?

He is not in the picture at all. So he is paying support in your life or hers? He's paying her child support. Dollar 25 a week.

Oh, okay.

A week. Where.

Where is he?

He's in North Carolina. And he's dropped out of her life or everyone's life.

Is he legally supposed to be paying more than $25 a week?

No, that's what the courts awarded him.

So he's indigent. He's not working. Is he struggling with addiction pretty bad?

Not addiction. He's a transgender, so he's not. He's just not in the picture at all.

Okay. He just dropped out of his life. So are you. Are you giving money cause you feel guilty?

A lot of it is. Yeah. Well, because she's a single mom. I don't want. I don't want her to go under.

And this is your grandchild still. It's not an ex grandchild. It's still your grandchildren.

She's raising my grandchild. I gave her a car. I gave her my car, and then I bought a car so that she would have a reliable vehicle because she was going under with the used car dealership.

Sure. Well, if you want to keep giving her money, then why do you want to stop giving her money?

I don't have it anymore. I'm 59. I want to retire someday, and I can't just keep giving her money. But the latest was Sunday night when she messaged me that she's going to be evicted if I don't help her pay her rent.

Is she working full time?

She works two jobs. She gets food stamps, child support. She no longer has a car payment. I mean, she's. I don't know where her money's going.

Here's the deal, though. Unless you want to file with the child protective services in that local area and take custody of this kid, because the kid's not safe. Where her money goes isn't any of your business. And I know that's hard to hear, but it's not.

Yeah.

And she. You've been giving her money, thousands and thousands of dollars. And you've probably had a ton of conversations about your son who's transitioned like, you've had tons of conversations with her. Y'all are close. And she's going to keep calling you in the middle of the night because she knows you'll bail her out of whatever situation she finds herself in.

Yeah.

And so until you say upfront, hey, I don't have enough money for me. And so from this point forward, here's the last $500 I got, and this is it. And she's going to call you again because she doesn't believe you. And you're going to have to hold firm to that boundary, and you're going to have to be sad. You have to be upset. You're going to have to be angry at your child. You have to be angry. You have to be frustrated, all of it. But you don't have any money. To give.

Yeah, that's. Thank you. Yeah.

And it seems like there's a lack of trust on your part because you don't know what she's doing with this money, and you don't think it's going to the things you want it to go to.

That's sort of correct. I don't understand. She works, like, two towns over. It's an hour away. Why not get a job closer to home? Why not? I just don't know where her money's going. And it's always an excuse, and I'm just tired of the excuses. I just don't want my granddaughter out on the street. And now she's going to be evicted in three days.

Are you in a position to take temporary custody of your granddaughter for a while?

I've told her yes, she can come stay with me. I mean, I haven't done anything legally. I'm not sure what I need to do legally, but I've told her I can put up my granddaughter. I just. I can't have her in my house.

Sure, of course. What does she say to them?

I'm waiting for a response. I just sent her a long message.

Today saying, no, let's stop communicating in messages because that's how my teenage son communicates with his friends. And we're adults, and this is too big of a deal. Let's make phone calls. Okay.

Okay.

Let's pick up the phone and call and say, I'm gonna come pick up my granddaughter, and she can stay here until you get on your feet again, if that's what you feel like you need to do. Okay.

I like that. I think I agree with that.

And she may say, I hate you, and I can't believe this. Or you may bail her out for three weeks, and then she'll come over to the house and say, oh, my God, she took my kid. Like, who knows what's gonna happen on the back end of this deal? But at least for three weeks, that little girl's got a safe place to put her head.

That's what I want. I just want her to be safe.

Yeah.

Just trying to take her child away. I just want her to get on her feet. And, of course, wasting money.

Of course. But listen, you don't get any say into her budget. You don't get any say into where she lives and where she works. That stinks. But you just don't. Right?

Yeah, I know.

And it. We want the man. I can't even imagine being in the situation you're in, but just because it hurts doesn't mean it's wrong. You don't have a pain free path forward here. You have to choose the one that's going to hurt and also lead you to where you want to be, which is right now, a safe place for your daughter. And you're bleeding cash that you don't have. And have you grieved your husband, your husband's loss?

Yeah. I mean, it's. You know, it's. I think that maybe it's just being taken advantage of since my husband's passed.

Okay.

It's. It's tough.

Yeah.

You know, and he would. He would probably. He's rolling over in his crave seeing me give her money.

It's okay. Hey, you went through a period of having to survive, and you're still breathing and you're good. And now we're going to start making some. Some harder and firmer and more safe and rational choices, right?

Yes.

Yeah. Forgive yourself, man. I can't. My life would end if my wife passed away. It would stop. And I would hope to give myself some grace on what I did the next few months. It would just be. I can't even wrap my head around that. So I'm gonna give you some. Give yourself some grace. You've been trying to keep your. Your family afloat as it's kind of drifting apart from you.

Thank you.

I'm proud of you. Okay.

Thank you.

And now you got to put your oxygen mask on and make sure you're in a stable enough place so that if you do end up having to take custody over this little granddaughter or whatever you choose to do, or your child comes home, what have you got to do? You're going to be in a more stable place to do that.

I agree.

Okay. I'm proud of you. And George, the one thing I always tell parents in this situation is don't. Don't pull a gotcha. Meaning if you've been giving money for month after month after month after month, and it's up to thousands of dollars, in my opinion, that warrants a conversation, not just an overnight cutoff, right. Because somebody has begun to lean on that money and you have shown up time and time and time again. It's worth a conversation. And that can be an uncomfortable one, because she's going to say, hey, this is it. I don't have any more money. Oh, she's going to let us. Like, it's all her fault, right? I can't control how you budget, how you spend any of that stuff. I'm just telling you, don't have any more money. Right. It's worth that conversation. And then you got to hold those boundaries firm because those waters are coming. We're going to see if they're going to hold.

It's so hard. And I know a lot of people, not this particular situation, but a lot of people are going through some version of this where they're trying to be a good, nice person. It's turned into this enabling. They have to have the hard boundary conversation, and it's a close person in their life. How do you even begin that?

I'll take it one step further. It's not only like we talk on the show, we often oversimplify it. Right. Like, you just cut that person off. What if I cut that person off and they have my granddaughter, who's four? Right. Like, it complicates things. And so, like we talked about in that call, what's the end goal? The end goal here is I can't give you any more money. And the end goal is I need my granddaughter safe. Okay, well, then maybe she's gonna have to come live with you for a couple of weeks. Cause that's the only option, right? Is anybody want that? No, but that's. That's the next right thing. So I think it's. It's. Sometimes it's as simple as telling your 25 year old kid, like, you gotta move out of the basement. Often it's sitting down and saying, okay, what's the best thing for the children involved in this deal? And what's the reality, my financial reality? I don't have more money. I can't give you anything else, or I'm gonna have to be calling you for money. And you gotta make those. Those hard decisions and think through all the ramifications of that.

But none of it is easy. And I think we all want an easy path. None of it's easy. It's all hard, and you gotta go do it anyway, so. Good.

Well, Tammy, thanks for the call. We're wishing the best for you. Hope this ends up with a good situation for you and your granddaughter. This is the Ramsey show. We'll be right back.

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Welcome back to THe Ramsay show. I'm George Camel, joined by doctor John Deloney. Listen, it's May, it's graduation season, and a grad in your life just spent more than 4300 hours in class and we are guessing that nobody figured, you know what? We should teach them how to handle money. How about that? So before you stick a crisp hundred dollar bill inside that graduation card, why not give them a tool that you wish someone had given you? And we've got tons of great gifts for grads in the Ramsey store. Gifts for teaching a grad about money. How about this? The total money makeover, Dave's all time best selling book. It's helped more than 10 million people get out of debt and build wealth. And my number one bestseller, breaking free from broke, exposing the money myths and traps out there. It's sort of like financial peace for the next generation. It's riddled with jokes and humor. I put the cookies on the bottom shelf.

That's like saying, like, I just came out with a new record. It's kind of like sergeant peppers for.

The next generation, pretty much.

Good job, George. Good job.

That's what Harry Styles is to me. Good job. So lots of gifts over there. If you're looking at grads trying to work on their job search, check out Ken Coleman's brand new book. We talked about it earlier. Launched today. Find the work you're wired to do. It includes the get clear career assessment. So this is very actionable for that grad in your life. It'll show them the work that they would enjoy doing. Helps them narrow down the search.

So questions for humans are all up.

That's a good one, too.

Building an on anxious life. They finally put it on sale. They've never put on sale.

About time. I know I'm not paying retail.

Never. So go to the store, man.

Go to ramsey solutions.com store. Shop till you drop. The grads will thank you and put a $20 bill in there along with the gift. I think that's always a kind thing to do. They like cash, too.

Yeah. Put some coal in there.

There we go. John's real angry today.

I'm a hundred years old. I guess I don't even know. I wouldn't even where to find coal.

Does Home Depot sell coal?

Has some.

A little kings been Kingsford briquettes. Does that count?

Yeah, that's charcoal. Okay, man, that's. That was the most outdoor, doorsy, manly thing I've heard you say let's go to in Brigette form.

Let's go to the lines. Because I prefer talking to strangers than John. Cindy is joining us in Richmond, Virginia. How you doing, Cindy?

I'm fine. Thank you for taking my call. I have a kind of a complicated question.

We have a complicated answer, most likely.

Great.

Hey, wait a minute. You're in Richmond, Virginia. You know where there's cold, right?

No, I don't.

She was so excited.

George Tinks is at Home Depot. All right, go ahead. Go ahead.

Okay. So six years ago, my mother moved in with my husband and myself. She sold her home. She built onto our home. She put $100,000 in our home for an apartment for her. I'm her full time caregiver, and now my husband and I are moving, and we want to take her with us. And the house that we have bought does not have accommodations for her. So my question is, who should fit the bill to make our house accommodating for her?

Does she have the money?

She has the money. She. She lives off Social Security for. She gets about 1700 a month, but she has 300,000 in invest in investments.

Do you have siblings?

I have a sister. She is hands off.

Okay. But is she going to be entitled to this money and be really upset that you spent it? Because I'm feeling like your mom put her 100 grand in, and so whatever y'all got out in equity of that home, you've just absorbed that and made that your money. And that would be money, I think, sounds right to go to. Y'all chose a house that's not accessible. And so that. That sounds like that's where that money would go.

So. Okay.

Because you've absorbed that equity, right?

We did. Yes, we did.

And I'm sure it didn't increase the value by $100,000. It wasn't dollar for dollar, but I am assuming it increased the value somewhat to add on an apartment, right?

Yes, it has. It has. We've made a lot of upgrades to this house, and I know that that has put built in financial equity in the home. I just, you know, it's a hard question because I am her 24/7 caregiver.

Do it for free.

Yes.

Okay.

Except, I'm sorry, she does give us a check for 350 a month, and that's for gas because she has a lot of appointments. She's a heart patient. That's for her insurance. That's for her phone and utilities and food.

Okay, Sydney, can I.

Do.

We only have a. We don't have a ton of time. I would be much gentler in this approach. Okay. But. So it's going to sound like I'm coming at you pretty hard, but I just have to ask this question. It sounds like you are getting frustrated in your role and you're looking almost for back pay. Like, you. You deserve this and she deserves to pay for it.

You know, that. That could very well be.

I don't think that's right. I think y'all came to an agreement and y'all chose. Y'all chose another house. And. Yeah, I mean, you chose another house. You get to do whatever you want to do. But the house that you chose and the choice you made to be your mom's 24/7 caregiver, those are right now are incompatible. But those are both choices you made after your mom put a hundred grand into your old house. Yeah, I know. That's. I know. Tell me if I'm wrong. Tell me if I'm. If I'm being unfair.

You know, I don't know what's fair, but I want to be fair because I'm a Christian and that's how I live my life. And I just.

Are you exhausted?

I'm completely exhausted.

Okay, let's say. Let's say that, like, that stinks, man. Like, what you're doing is really hard. My oldest, best friend on planet Earth is a paraplegic. And his brother takes care of him and his mom takes care of him full time. That's exhausting. No, thankless, nobody's there work.

Yes.

Right?

Yes.

It's exhausting. And when you get exhausted and you don't have people that you spend your life with, it's real easy to start saying like, well, I deserve and I should have. And those things. Your heart hard. And then you start thinking, well, I'm gonna build mom for. See what I'm saying? Just. It. Just one step and one step and one step.

Right. And I don't want to do something. I know by my mother. She has been a good mother. She. She is a good mother. And for the circumstance that we're in, she has made it as easy as she can.

Sure.

You know.

Have you already bought this house and you've already moved and all that stuff running and gunning.

We're. We're in the process of moving.

So you already sold or have you not closed yet?

We haven't. We have bought a home. And we are almost ready to put our house on the market we're living in.

So whatever happens with the position, I'm guessing you're gonna have a job. What number do you think you'll have at the closing from the sale of the house?

I think. I think we're going to. I'm hoping that we're going to close around 700.

Okay. Do you have a mortgage?

This house is paid off.

Okay. So outside of fees, you will take every penny and put it in the bank, and you're going to roll most of that over to the next house. What's the next house cost?

589.

Okay. So you'll be able to pay cash and afford $100,000 edition.

Yes.

Or remodel.

I like this plan. I like doesn't send you guys back. You're not going into debt for this. You have the money. I would leave her investments alone because chances are one day you're gonna inherit whatever she has left.

Or worst case scenario, you're gonna get sued for the money that your sister thinks you spent.

Well, I hadn't thought about that.

You use a portion of mom's investments now. She passes. Sister goes, whoa. They took. They already took 100,000 out of their inheritance, so I deserve that back.

Then they charge. They charged mom another 75,000 to make the new house Ada accessible, and they can't. Now it's 150. Right. See how it just gets Messier and messier and messier?

Yeah.

I would find somebody to go sit with, whether it's a couple of friends, whether it's a counselor, whether it's somebody that you can just exhale and say, I didn't see, this is how my life was going to be right now. And I'm tired, and I don't like it, and it's right. And I know what I'm doing is holy and good and all that, but I'm also allowed to say I don't like it. And find some people you can say that to and get it. Work through that stuff, man, because this is hard, what you're doing. You're a good, good daughter. But when you get into the shoulds and I'm owed, man, you can make some gnarly decisions that you can't take back. And.

I saw some recent financial statistics, and there was some pretty troubling news. When families were asked how long it would be before they faced financial hardship if a spouse died, nearly one third said they'd be in trouble immediately. Another 44% said they'd be financially drained. Within six months, people. It does not have to be this way. Term life insurance plans are just plain cheap. And companies have made it even easier by not requiring exams. In many cases, there really is no excuse to leave your family in this situation by not having life insurance. This is why I talk about Zander insurance every day. They're committed to protecting families with the only products that I recommend. And their team keeps the entire process simple and affordable. Go to zander.com for quick online pricing, or call 803 564282. This has to be a priority if your family is in this situation. You need to get this done.

This is the Ramsey show. I'm George Campbell, joined by doctor John Deloney. If you're listening to the show, do us a quick favor. Wherever you're listening or watching, hit the share button. And share this with someone in your life who might enjoy it. Leave us a kind review. Hit the subscribe or follow button. All of that helps us reach more people. It helps the algorithms love us. And you are the best marketing we have. So I appreciate all of you who have done that. It is working. We are seeing the numbers grow, and it means the world. Tyler's up next in Charlotte, North Carolina. Tyler, welcome to the show.

Thank you, guys.

What's going on?

Honestly, I have a. I would say a base platform that I'm trying to build from. I just recently had a two year old son, so that's kind of motivation in a lot of different manners. I'm trying to build credit, looking at buying a house, things of that nature, but I'm basically starting at the complete bottom.

What does that mean? Like, you're just. You don't you have no financial literacy or are you broke or both?

Financial literacy? I'm not sure exactly what I'm doing. I work for the post office, so income is decent.

Are you married?

No, I have no, sir.

Okay. Are you a single dad?

Yes, sir.

Okay. How old are you?

32.

Hey, welcome to the gang, man.

What's up, guys?

Hey, look, man, if you knew how many questions I asked Dave off air. Cause I don't know either. It's. Man, you're right where you need to be, and I'm glad you found us.

And someone who's 52 is going, oh, I wish I was Tyler learning this stuff at 30. So put down the shame and baggage. You probably feel that you should have been doing better things sooner. It's okay. All right, so let me free you. So let's talk about your financial picture and what your goals are that helps us kind of assess where you're at in the journey, and then, of course, I'll give you some tools that will kind of lay out the Ramsey plan and foundation. So, how much are you making at the post office?

Roughly 3200 a month.

Okay. And what does child care look like for the two year old?

I'm paying about $750 in child support a month.

Okay. Now, what debt do you have?

None, besides maybe a few medical from years ago.

Okay. And how much money do you have in the bank?

About $2,300.

Okay. This is a good start.

I can just set to the side. Yes.

So you're a. You're better off than most people in America. And I know it sounds crazy. That's how bad things are, but you're ahead of most people. Okay.

What's your rent? Every.

Congratulations.

I actually don't have it. I did a while back, but then I moved out. It was time for me to step out on my own. My family was like, all right. Going. Let's go. So they kind of pushed me out, and I'm starting fresh.

So, do you have rent or a mortgage?

Right that way. Do I have rent for a mortgage?

You have rent or a mortgage?

Oh, negative. No, sir.

So, what's your living situation?

I actually live with a friend. They've been gracious enough to open their door and give me an opportunity to build.

What do you mean, to build? Like, to build your financial life?

Yes.

Okay. So, are you paying them any rent, or is this just free, just being a bud?

Yes. Now, I will help out between two. $300 a month and. Or fixing things around the house or just random things, but it's not a. Hey, I need this amount. They're. They're secure in themselves.

Okay, well, I think, long term, I want to. I want you to have a place for yourself, even if that's just renting for a few years as you start to save up a down payment to become a home I'm running into, because.

I did look into apartments recently, this falls back to credit score, and I don't have never established credit, so I have no credit score. I don't have bad credit. It's just not.

Dude, you know, when you say running.

Into a problem, you don't need it. Here.

Here's the truth. I've rented many apartments. I've called different apartments across the country. I've done. I did this on my YouTube channel. I did this in the book and my fine print podcast, and it turns out almost every single person was like, yeah, do you have a stable job?

Yeah.

Do you have a criminal background? No. Okay, well, you might have need to pay an extra $500 deposit.

And I go, okay, that's it.

So, that's the truth. A lot of it is fictionalized in our head. Or they go, hey, we're gonna run a credit check. And you go, oh, gosh. And you get scared off. They're looking for delinquent, bad credit. They're not. They're not going to be concerned if you just have no credit history because you don't have debt.

And by the way, Tyler, both George and I have bought a house with a manual underwriting with a credit score of zero. You can do that, too.

And we've. We've our partners at Churchill mortgage, they've been doing this for decades. They are the number one experts in manual underwriting with a no score loan. So I don't want that to scare you into doing what most Americans do, which is go, I got to build my credit. Let me get a credit card or seven. Let me go get a car payment, because that helps my credit score. And then you wake up going, I'm in no financial. I'm not in a better financial place than I was, and I have a 750 or 800 credit score. Big WHOOP. And so I think you're actually doing better than most. If you don't have a credit score right now.

Here's something I learned about the credit score, Tyler. And since you don't have a lot of financial literacy, this blew my mind, and I'm gonna tell it to you early. If I gave you $5 million in cash right now, it would not change your credit score one bit. If you went and opened up a credit card and ran up $5,000 and made your. Your monthly payment three months in a row, you'd have a great credit score. Who would you rather be? A guy holding $5 million in cash or that other dude? Exactly. The credit score, just as simply as a. It's a marker for how good you can dance with debt. And if you just decide I'm going to dance with freedom instead, that the score is kind of irrelevant.

Okay, okay, okay.

So that.

That solves it. Now you go, well, what should I be doing? Well, the Ramsey baby steps give you a great filter. And right now, outside of clearing up that medical debt, I would just go ahead and call them and say, hey, what do I owe? See if you can settle for the, you know. How much is this? Do you know have any idea?

Maybe 15 minimum to maybe $4,000.

Okay, well, you've got, let's say you, you have a $1000 starter emergency fund that gives you 1300 to play with. What if you said, hey, can I settle this debt? I've got $1,300. I need it paid in full and I need it in writing. I bet they'd go, yeah, that's fine. Let's clear that out of your life.

Don't give them your credit. Don't give them your checking account either, so they can tell you that is.

Part of the plan. I just. I didn't know which step that would be. I'm halfway through Dave Ramsey baby steps book right now.

Okay, so that's your step one is to clear up that old collection debt. You have a $1,000 in the bank. Now we move on to step two, paying off all debt. You don't have that. Let's move on to step three. Three to six months of expenses, fully funded emergency fund. And for you, that might be ten grand.

Okay.

And so your next step would be how much of my income can I push towards savings and not spend it? And that, probably for you, with your expenses right now, will happen pretty fast.

Yes.

And so the next step after that is let's begin investing, baby step four, invest 15% of our income. I'm guessing you have an employer retirement plan through the postal service.

Yes.

And you're not currently investing.

Not yet. A lot of that was within your 1st 60 day window. And I was so busy with a job, I didn't actually get into it yet. That's totally fine at any time.

Well, start it. Once you have a fully funded emergency fund, that's when you can turn on that dial for 15% in that retirement plan. Then beyond that, it's saving for the kids college. And obviously in all of that, we got to be saving for a house. That would be baby step three b, and we'll, we'll give you some more resources on that to help you take that next step. But it's very clear it's one thing, focus, intensity, and you're going to do one thing at a time. But I want to encourage you that you're in a better spot than you think you are. And credit is not the answer to any of your problems.

Awesome.

You're the solution, man. So hang on the line. I'm going to send you a copy of my book, breaking free from broke. I spent a lot of time pouring through the research and the data and the objections, talking about credit scores. There's a whole chapter on that. Talking about credit cards to kind of unlock what John's talking about, about solving for freedom instead of playing kissy face with banks and lenders your whole life and then wondering why it doesn't feel like the american dream. And I think you're going to be able to rise above that with these tools. So hang on a line. And Austin and Kelly are going to pick up. We're going to send you a copy of breaking free from broke. You've already got the baby steps book, probably total money makeover if I had to guess. A great book to get you fired up. And you'll get there, man. That's exciting. It's kind of nice. John, when you, we talk to someone who's sort of fresh, they think, they.

Think that everything's coming down and they realize, no, you're pretty good, actually. Most, most people call in and they're underwater. You're just, you're on dry land. You're not in the mountains, but you're on dry land, dude.

And there's no unplugging from the Matrix. You don't have to deprogram all the crap and beliefs and myths. You just go, I don't know what to do. Tell me they're going to be way better off than the people who are stuck in their own limited beliefs, believing the debt system is the path. It's simply not. And listen to the show for 20 minutes and you'll see how that's true. That puts this hour of the Ramsay show in the books. Thank you to my co host, Doctor John Deloney. All the guys and gals in the booth keeping the show afloat. And you, America, will be back before you know it. Live from the headquarters of Ramsay Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by doctor John deloney. Open phones at 8825-5225 you call in, we'll talk about your money, yourself, life, your relationships, your emotional health, all of it right here in front of you on the show. Chelsea kicks us off this hour. And Phoenix, Chelsea, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hi, George. Hi, doctor John.

Hey, how can we help today?

Okay, so I'll just lay it out and I guess we can go from there. I'm 30. I am in about 102, to be exact, k in debt. And I decided to not renew my lease. Last summer, I converted my car, so I'm living in my car full time. It was by choice, but now I feel like it's something I'm depending on to try to pay off debt, and I'm pretty much. I feel like I keep making the same debt in choices. I come from a family who all are in debt. No one's financial literate, and I really want to make that change for myself and not keep carrying that burden. But this is my first time really realizing that I need help. And I'm confused. Don't know where to start, how to organize all of this so that I cannot run into this again.

Do you have a support system at all, or are you all by yourself hunting?

By myself. I live in Phoenix. Just me and my dog. I moved out here a couple years ago. All of my family is back on the east coast, and I'm just figuring it out.

What is in Arizona?

I originally came here for a job. I got laid off from that job, and thankfully, I did get another job three months later, as of March 23. So I've been with them for about a year.

Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.

Yeah.

Honey, you live on the street?

Yeah.

What's. What's in Arizona? This is not a life for, like, if you're my sister, if you're my friend, I don't. I don't want this for you. What's in Arizona?

Nothing anymore. Since I'm not with that job. The current job I have now is remote, and I decided to do, like, you know, a little bit of travel and road trips and take advantage of that to kind of figure out the next step. Really?

Okay. What is so. And tell me I'm not. I'm not. This isn't a judgment question. This is just me asking what is so unsafe about going back to the west coast or the east coast and staying with a relative or a friend for six months to get your feet back under you.

A lot of trauma. PTSD.

Okay. If it's abusive, don't go back. I'm just. I'm just. I'm wondering. That's what I'm digging at. So if there's. If it's a mess, don't go back there. Okay? Not safe.

Yeah. Yes and no. I'd rather. I'm the type of person to figure it out on my own. I can move back into an apartment, at least, but I figured, like, that money could go towards debt.

Instead, you're. You're in. I can't tell you how unsafe your position is right now.

Yeah.

You're living on the street. You got to get yourself a place to stay.

This is not a two month plan. You're going to be living in your car for four or five years at.

This rate, even if you. If you apply for an emergency housing voucher there in Phoenix, Arizona, you got to find a place where you can have four walls over your head. If you have to go to a shelter, go to a shelter. I want you to be safe. And the thought of my daughter spending the night, month after month, in a car on the side of the road in Phoenix, Arizona, when it's about to be 118 degrees every day, it's untenable. I can't. I can't even. My heart stops thinking about that.

What kind of car is this?

Such a great question.

It's like a mattress in the trunk situation. You said you converted it.

Yeah, no, I converted the whole thing. It's a Kia soul. And I originally, I was around the country. I was exploring. I actually did get, like, a house sitting gig for the summer while I'm here so that I'm not in the heat. And then I was going to head back to the coast of California to continue, like, to travel.

Right now is not our time to eat, pray, love, and travel. That's a distraction from facing your real life.

Yeah.

And we need to clean up this debt before we go on another road trip.

That means you're going to have to get some stability and get yourself a full time job and two part time jobs and pay this stuff off.

And maybe you get, you know, a few good gals and you have a few roommates. You don't have to keep doing this on your own. So how much money do you make?

44 a year with my full time job. And I've done some ubering on the side, so that probably brings in about 15 to 20.

Okay, well, Phoenix just moved all their ubers to autonomous, didn't they?

Or.

I'm not sure.

A big chunk of them.

I do the uber eats, I don't do the pickup people.

Yeah, you're making about sixty k. And you have $100,000 in debt. What kind of debt is all this?

38 is for a student loan, another 47 is another student loan, 17 is car, and the rest is credit cards.

Okay.

What was your degree in?

Communications. Broadcast journalism.

And what are you doing for work right now?

Hr.

Okay. Would you want to be doing something closer to your field? Yes, I think it's possible. I think you took whatever job was there, which is totally fine, but I want you to move into something that you're really passionate about, because that's going to end up increasing your income over time and going to help you pay off this debt, because right now, how much money can you throw at the debt every month between the payments and the extra?

Maybe one or 2000 a month.

Have you done the math on that?

Ten years, not including interest, 1000 a.

Month is a hundred months for you to become debt free.

Yeah, should be definitely more.

We need to be throwing more like two or three k a month.

Okay.

That's 33 grand a year. You're done in three years max. So that's, that's what we need to figure out how to get that margin. If that means you move back with some family or friends or you get three roommates, you do that. But we can't keep living in this car. Is the car loan on this Kia?

Yes.

I'm guessing you're underwater on this car. I doubt you're going to be able to sell it after you converted it like that.

Very much underwater.

Well, you're going to debt, snowball all this and pay off the smallest balance. The largest. That means splitting up all the student loans, splitting up the credit cards, and paying that off, the smallest one first.

And if you're gonna. If you're gonna keep living a nomadic life, pick a place that's cheaper so you can get an apartment. Phoenix is incredibly expensive for somebody making $40,000. Just trying to piece together to, I mean, trying to find two pennies to rub together. Move to Kansas, move to Nebraska, move to somewhere that's cheaper to live.

Yeah.

And listen to. You cannot outrun this debt. You can't pretend it never happened. And you can't just wander off like wanderlust it away. At some point it's going to come for you. And my fear is you're not, you're not going to listen to the thing George and I say, and you're going to look up in five years and that 100 grand is going to be $175,000 with penalties and late fees. And they'll garnish your wages. They will come get their money. You're going to have to just stop and grow up and have a hard, hard couple of years, and then you're going to be free. And then if you want to drive around the country, drive around the country, I'm all for it, man. I'm a, I'm a dreamer, too, but, man, you got to cut these chains.

I was going to send you a book, but you don't have an address right now. So instead, hang on the line. I'm going to get your email and we'll send you the digital versions of breaking free from broke. The e book and the audiobook. I hope it helps you get out of this cycle. You're going to break it. You're going to break the generational chains. Dead is not in the DNA. We checked. This is the Ramsey show. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm George Campbell, joined by doctor John Deloney. Open phones at 888-25-5225 our question of the day comes from Bethany in Connecticut. What does Bethany have to say?

John? All right, Bethany asks. My husband and I are in our mid thirties and self made millionaires. We are debt free and have a fully funded emergency fund, retirement accounts, education funds for our children, and we own three rental properties. Our combined after tax income is about $600,000 a year. We could be investing more, but we're not on the same page on how to invest. I'm more conservative and lean towards mutual funds, but my husband prefers to invest in venture capital funds, startups and real estate. As a higher earner, he subtly infer. God pisses me off. As the higher earner, he subtly infers that his opinion holds more weight than mine and says that his lifetime earning potential is so vast that I shouldn't even care. I'm afraid this attitude could lead to the collapse of what we've worked so hard to build. You are correct, Bethany, from a relationship perspective, can you offer some advice on how we can find a mutually agreeable way to decide what we invest in and continue to build wealth? George, you can answer the question. But Bethany, this is not a retirement question issue. This is a. Your husband thinks he's smarter and better than you.

Your husband thinks you are dumb, and your husband placates you and pats you on the head and says, pat, pat, it's all gonna be okay. And then he goes and does whatever he wants because, let's be honest, he makes more money than you. And these kind of guys make my skin crawl. They make my skin crawl because it's so nonsensical. So until you guys get that part of your marriage figured out that y'all are together on the same team, 50 50, who cares how much? It's all going the same pot. And y'all decide we're gonna build something together. And now we're gonna. We're gonna disagree over what bricks we're gonna use and what stucco we're gonna use for the house or whatever, or the siding. Whatever. Then you can have the conversation about investment vehicles.

Yeah.

This is one part of a much bigger story, which is your entire life. And I love that you're at least on the same page with the fundamental principles of we're debt free, fully funded emergency fund. We've got three, I assume paid for rentals if they're debt free. So you're doing a lot of things correctly. But I don't like his. The arrogance and pride that he's projecting with this idea that, like, I know better. Listen, I know you want to do these cute mutual funds. I want to do these venture capital funds and startups, which, by the way, have a lot more risk now. They can have more reward. But he's getting starry eyed here, and the prideful investor is the one that's about to get his butt handed to him.

And you don't have data on startup like funding?

I haven't looked into that to see, like, the percentage that fail or the percentage that, you know, the volatility of these.

Yeah. My understanding that it's kind of like the Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. It's like, you don't got to go to college. You don't need to get any kind of training. Look at Bill Gates and Steve jobs. Like, well, good guys. Okay, cool.

So everyone was just like, well, just go back and invest in Uber 20 years ago. It doesn't work.

Like, exactly. People were like, man, I made a trillion dollar. Like, Ashton Kutcher made so much money. You're right, he did. He's better at this than y'all are. And he knew some friends and had some good questions, and he's a very savvy investor. But that leaves out the billions of dollars that are lost every year by some guy with the next app or the next new idea. The next good idea. Right? It's just man.

And like Dave says, you can out earn your stupidity for a long time, and you guys are probably going to be fine because you're not lever over leverage. You have a lot of debt. But I would say, hey, let's have some guardrails about how we invest. You like to invest here, I like to invest here. Let's set a foundation. We're going to max out all of our tax advantage retirement accounts. We're going to invest in mutual funds. Then beyond this percentage, x percentage of our income, anything beyond that, you can invest. This is essentially play money.

I like that. So let's say 15. What's 15% of 600,000?

Is that 90?

Let's say it's. Let's pretend it's 90. I can't do math like Dave can in his head.

I was right. John.

Say it's 90,000. Yeah. So we're going to cover, we're going to do all the max out both.

Our 401 ks, we're going to fully fund the backdoor Roth Iras, and we're going to fully max out the HSA. And then beyond that, here's how we're going to spend our play.

Go play.

And I think being in agreement on that and letting him have, you know, hey, you're going to have $20,000 in play money.

Or, or maybe since we make 600 grand and we have maxed out everything and we're all, everything's paid off, I'll double it. Yeah.

You.

Of our 600 a year, we're going to take home about 450 of that. You can go play with 50 of it, go play with 75 of it, go start up whatever, go set it on fire in the front yard and.

Go start a business.

We're going to continue to be conservative with these basic principles over time.

So I just like having a little compromise here. I don't think he's doing anything wrong, but he's not listening to her and he's not giving her a vote. And that, to me, is the part that's wrong in all of this.

Yeah. So I. Bethany, your question. Can you offer some advice on how we can find a mutually agreeable way to decide what we invest in? Let's start with, okay, we're in our mid thirties and we've made millions of dollars. Our marriage is now different. He's married to a different wife. You're married to a different husband. Let's rebuild and reimagine our marriage as one of two people on the same page doing the same thing, working towards the same goal.

Let's start there and asking, what are we really after?

What do we want this thing to look like?

If we hit 5 million, what then? Yeah, we had 10 million. What then? And most people find they just had an arbitrary number, and it just was exciting to chase the next.

And then you hit ten, and it's like, well, let's, let's double the business. Maybe you're not the kind of business leader that can run a $20 million company, but you can dominate a handshake. $10 million company. Awesome. Be that guy and do it well. Or get some people in your life that can help you with it, but let's have those conversations. Don't let them accidentally happen, because then you're right. You're going to accidentally just keep rolling and rolling and fall right off a cliff. Yeah.

Hope that helps. All right, Eric is in Portland. Up next, what's happening.

Eric, good morning.

Thanks for taking my call.

Sure.

I've got a nine year old daughter who is fortunate enough to have inherited about $7,000. And I'm trying to decide what the best thing to do with that is. I don't know if a college fund or a mutual fund.

Crypto, man. Buy crypto. Just kidding. Don't do that, Eric.

Someone's going to clip that call. John Deloney said, wow. So who gave her this?

My father passed away a few years ago.

And this money is now sitting in a bank account somewhere, correct?

Yeah. Not doing anything.

And is it in your bank account?

No, my sister was in control, and so it's sitting in an account that she has at the moment.

Okay. But you can do what you would like with this money now, correct?

Yeah.

I think college is a great place to store this money because of the tax advantages. It acts similar to a Roth IRa to where you put this money away. It's going to grow tax free for college related expenses. Worst case, after, I think it's 15 years now, with the new secured 2.0 act, you're able to roll that over to a Roth IRA with no penalty if they don't end up needing it or using it. So a lot of people are spooked going, I don't want to put money there. What if my kid doesn't go to college? Well, now you can roll over a certain amount to a Roth IRA, and then that becomes retirement money for. So that's one option. The other option is if there's a more short term goal, let's say, hey, her first car, this is going to be the money that she's going to use. And we're going to park this. Let's say she's nine. Let's say she's driving by, what, 16? I don't know what the Oregon age is.

Yep. Yep.

But this is going to be money that goes toward the car, and we're going to put it in a brokerage account, in a mutual fund or index fund, or even a high yield savings account and make 5%. Because the goal here is the seven k is not. We're not trying to become multimillionaires off the seven k right now risk. It's just, what can we do to set her up well, with. As she steps into adulthood. And so I think car or college are the best things. And the best vehicles would be a 529 plan for college. Or you could do a brokerage account. There's also up muz and ugmas and things you can look into that are under your control until she's 18.

Okay?

And, Eric, this is a. This is terrible money advice. This is just the. The heart behind it all. I like thinking when there's some. Some sort of inheritance. I like thinking what would make the person who left the money just sit back with that shoulders drop smile, like if your dad's a car guy and he'd love to see your daughter pulling up in a car that's paid for in cash, and he would just sit back and get a big grin on his face. I don't know, man. I kind of lean that way. And if your dad was all about you go to college, you're getting educated. You're getting educated. And the thought that. That his inheritance that he left to his daughter is going to grow and pay for part of her first semester of like. Like whoever your dad was, like just that, sitting back and smiling. I like to let that guide me a little bit. It's not going to make the final decision, but I sure like to imagine that moment.

Yeah, absolutely. Now, you said with the Roth Ira, if she doesn't use it after 15 years, we can roll it into a roth. If she. She decides not to go to school.

Yes. And so don't let that spook you. About what? If she doesn't go to college, there's going to be room to switch that account over. So I think the fact you're calling in tells me you're going to make a good decision with this money. You're a great dad. Thanks for the call. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm George Campbell, joined by doctor John Deloney. Ryan's up next in Salt Lake city, Utah. What's happening, Ryan?

Hey, guys, how's it going? Can you hear me all right?

Yeah, you sound good. What's your question?

Perfect. Hey, so just a little bit of background, rather. My question is, how do I manage my finances in regard to vehicular repairs when I have a wedding coming up in the fall, while I'm at the same time trying to save for a home?

Sounds like you're trying to do a lot at once.

A little bit, yes, sir.

The wedding has a planned date. Did you already sign a contract for the venue and everything?

Yes, sir.

Okay. That one is immovable. How necessary and urgent are these vehicle repairs?

So it's fairly mild. It's more a question of if I'm. If I have too much truck. So maybe to provide a little context, I was in the army and I. I'm utilizing the GI bill right now and all the money I saved in the army, I used to buy a car, and the truck I have now, which has turned into a work vehicle, started as a toy, and now I used it as a work vehicle. Just a lot of repairs, one after the other. So the plan was, once I get married, sell her car, keep my car, because it's a little on the nicer side. But I'm just worried that I'm spending too much money on repairs because the differential needs to be serviced here, that the other needs to be fixed. And do you have any debt on.

These cars, or is this all debt free?

It's all debt free.

Okay.

Get nauseous at the thought of pulling out alone.

What kind of truck is it?

It is a 1997 f 350 with the diesel motor and manual transmission.

Bro, that truck. That truck will be alive at the end. Like, you'll ride that through the apocalypse.

That's. That was. That's the plan.

Okay, man. So you want to hang on to this for now? I would, you know, keep doing whatever necessary repairs and ride it through the fall. But the goal right now, I. I don't think you need to be in home buying mode yet. Let's just get through this wedding season, and it is a season. It's got. It's going to have its ups and downs. Let's rent for six months or a year, and then we can look into home ownership with your new spouse.

Yes, sir. I guess the follow up question to that truck is, I mean, I'd rather keep this truck than spend $100,000 on a brand new one. I'd rather just keep fixing this one until they don't make the parts anymore.

Well, I'm guessing it's not worth much.

At what point are the clean out that dirty mouth?

It's emotionally worth a lot, but with the issues on it.

Yes, sir.

Did you get a few thousand bucks?

What's that threshold that we crossed, like? Because I can do all the. All the repairs on my own. I was mechanic in the army.

George is just trying to put a price tag on a piece of american craftsmanship, like that Ford f 350. Just don't listen to word he's saying.

I'm with Doctor John here.

The trucks of master, I'm sure they'll.

Feature it on american pickers one day, but right now, we got financial goals, so I'm just. I don't want you to sink eight grand into it if it's only worth three.

Yes, sir.

And I think that's the heart of your question is, how much do I really pour into this thing before it gives up the ghosts? And I go, we had a good time, right?

I guess I'm thinking, like, the replacement cost, like, if I had to get another vehicle for work, if, like, I much rather spend three grand on the transmission than sell that and get five out of it and spend 20 on another. Agree.

So it's okay to pour a bunch of money in this versus going out and buying a $50,000 truck. And because it's a work truck, I would not spend a lot of money on it. It's a very utility thing. And so once you guys are married, I think that's the time to start making those kinds of decisions and prioritizing. Hey, when do we want to buy a home? When is it time to upgrade the truck? All of that will come into play once you guys combine finances. But for now, unless it's on its last leg and you have to upgrade, I wouldn't. I'd keep doing these repairs, doing them yourself to save money. It doesn't sound like you're going to pour much more than a few thousand more into it.

No, sir. No. It's just trying to, well, stay in good graces with fiance, if you understand.

Dude, I drove in 96, and my wife was finally like, hey, you got to choose, us, me or the truck. And that was a long night of sleep I lost before I finally settled on my 15 year marriage. But, hey, but listen, actually, she didn't do that at all. I was the one that was embarrassed enough that I just finally got rid of it. You have a picture, and you're a good guy, and you're working real hard, and you're going to school on that GI bill. You're a serviceman. You're working hard with your truck, your mechanic. You can do all these things. And you have this picture of a guy that gets married and buys his wife a house, don't you?

Yes, sir.

Yeah. Just that picture is beautiful, and it's right. And if you rush it, you're going to crash the whole thing. So just keep that picture on the fridge and tell your wife let's. We're going to save up. Here's our plan. Let's do it for a year, and let's do x. And what? Let's do everything in order, George. Nailed it. Don't do everything at the same time, man. It's a recipe for everything being a little bit lukewarm and nothing. Just what you want. You're gonna buy a house that's kind of, yeah. Your wedding's gonna be a little.

If you add home shopping to your fiance's to do list, she will explode on top of all the details she has to deal with for this wedding.

Yes.

Even if it's chill for you, it's not for her. And so I would get through this. Let's get married. Let's see how much money we come to the table with. Let's make sure that she's on board, that we knock out our debts, if she has any. We've got this big pile of money now on top of the emergency fund. Then you can make a decision with peace instead of rushing into it. Because you're trying to be a great husband.

No doubt.

So you're on the right path. And I would just put as much as you need to for the repairs. Within reason. You know, if there's something that's like, this is gonna be ten grand, I would just say, you know, take a picture with it and sing a song. I don't know what you do for trucks, John.

When you say goodbye, you never say goodbye. The truck says goodbye to you, George.

Oh, wow.

I didn't.

And then it floats away into truck heaven.

I mean, there's some who have said they've seen that all trucks go to heaven on the range. All trucks go to hell.

Priuses go somewhere else. Ron is with us in Oklahoma City.

Ron, he knows about a good truck out there in Oklahoma.

How you guys doing? Good, man. What's up, man? You guys do.

Thanks.

I'm almost 62. I feel bad asking this. I'm good, but I don't want to be stupid with my money. In retirement, I've learned to live on $2,500 a month. But now I'm. My checking account is going up $3,000 a month, and I feel like that I'm wasting it. Only debt I have is my home. 40 acres with a mobile home, $500 a month. That's my only. Well, you know, utilities.

But you owe. You owe $500 a month on the mortgage?

Yes.

Okay.

About three years left on that.

So I feel like this extra money has a goal. Let's pay off this mortgage.

Okay.

What else would you do with that?

Because it's. It's not a bank mortgage. It's to the guy I bought it from. He's getting older, and I've been feeling bad, especially.

Pay him off. Especially.

Bank is faceless. This guy's got a face, and he's.

Going to die, and his kids are going to sue you, and they're going to make up. It's going to be a mess. Pay them off.

What's left on the mortgage.

Okay.

On the loan?

Oh, probably about 15 grand.

Okay. How much money do you have in cash? In the bank?

65.

Ron, what are you doing?

Pay it off today. You'll free up another $500, and you're gonna be fine.

I will call him up today.

I love it. I love it.

What's your bigger retirement plan?

It's a personal guy, not like some institution.

Yeah, that's great. And get a worry about it. Obviously, good people get the title in writing, of course. But, hey, I wanna go back to something you said when you first called, and I, and I've grown so sick of this in our culture that we just beat up. On one side, we beat up the people on the least of these in our communities, and on the other side, we beat up those who have done really well and who have taken care of their business and have gotten lucky and have just been good stewards of their money and their jobs. Don't ever be ashamed that you've done well and that you have found yourself.

In a, sadly, I didn't learn it from you guys. My parents lived through the depression.

I know.

I learned how to be cheap.

Hey, hey. I'm with you. You should have listened to the last call. I'm with you. But find ways to be generous with that money. Find ways to enjoy that money, and find ways to bless future generations, people in your community. You can do a lot of good with that money, man. But don't be ashamed.

I do enjoy the fact that I have several charities that I give.

I love it.

Good. You don't want to flat tire on.

That's the big passion, etcetera.

The lesson here, so you can spend more, you can save and invest some of this into retirement accounts or brokerage accounts outside of retirement, and then you can give. And that's really the only three things you can do with money. So learn to get really good at all three. This is the Ramsay show.

Hey, folks, our brand new event, Dave Ramsey's investing essentials, is almost here. Do not miss this chance to get the tools you need to build your investing plan and prepare for your dream retirement with confidence. It's happening May 21 and 22nd, and it's virtual, so you can tune in from anywhere. You can even submit your questions to get real answers in real time. Tickets are 199. Get yours@ramsaysolutions.com events.

Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm George Campbell, joined by doctor John DeLong, we've got some new events happening. One of those is Dave Ramsey's investing essentials. And good news for all of you in America. This is a virtual event, so you can tune in from anywhere. You don't have to travel. You can enjoy it from the comfort of your home online. And Dave Ramsey and I will be deep diving on investing. And for the first time ever, he's going to share his personal playbook on investing, including how he buys real estate. And this is a two night virtual event, about 2 hours per night, May 21 and 22nd. And yes, you can watch the replay, I believe, for a week after for the general admission tickets, which is great. So even if you can't make it on those particular times and nights, be sure to grab your virtual tickets because you can tune in later. And this is not only going to be covering real estate investing, but also how to maximize your 401k, how to choose mutual funds, what investing trends to follow, which ones to avoid. You do not want to miss it.

Ramsaysolutions.com events is the place to go. And I'll tell you, John, I was in a meeting with Dave late yesterday as the team worked on the content for this. It ended with Dave doing, like, beautiful mind math with charts and graphs to where our brains were just melting with these, like, real estate formulas. It was insane. So I'm excited to see this come to life.

I remember it was a few years ago. I'd only been working here for a few months, and he called us all in the room, like, hey, I need to run something by you guys, just in case you'll get a question on the show about how bond prices are sort of backdoor connected to interest rates. And we sat down and he started talking. And I remember just the over, the overarching thought ahead was, oh, my gosh, this guy's really smart. And I think we forget that, right, because he just tells people to sell the truck and, you know, kind of does his date. Dude's a survivor.

He's so accessible on the air. But his, his mind, he is. It's a beautiful thing.

Brilliant in a, in a impressive and terrifying way. So I love that he's doing these events. He did one earlier this year with, just, with a group of baby step millionaires as a private event. Like, here's how I've done life.

They're like, what do I built all this wealth? What now?

What do I do? How do I not ruin my doing this? He's kind of like opening up his brain for us and saying, like, hey, here's. Here's my playbook. Here's how. The playbook that I've used in my home for this many years at a deep, deep dive. And it's pretty impressive.

So be sure to tune in along with the brain melting. You're going to leave with some, a lot of hope and confidence in your wealth building plan and some great questions to start working through with your spouse, with your financial advisor. So go to ramsaysolutions.com events. Join us for Dave Ramsey's investing essentials May 21 and 22nd. Anna is in Dallas, Texas. Up next, Ana, welcome to the show.

Hi. Thanks so much for having me. I'm so nervous.

Hey, it's just John and I. You're going to be fine. How can we help?

Thank you. Yes. So I just, you know, started listening to YouTube shorts, and I found you guys about a couple days ago.

Cool.

And, yeah, I actually wanted to know. I work full time at the moment, and I wanted to see, I took my LSAT, I got a really high score, and I was wondering if I should go to law school full time or part time and work full time as well.

High like 170. High like 165 and above. Like, or high 155 and above?

I got a 173. Wow.

Way to go. You're like a prodigy. Congratulations. All right, so here's your goal. I don't think you're going to be able to work, and it's really, really, really discouraged, for one l's, most schools won't allow it. Um, but with that score, I want you to find a law school where you will go for free. You should not pay for law school with the score that high. Okay.

They're lucky to have you.

So I was wondering, um, I know my undergrad GPA was absolutely horrible. I didn't know the value of school. I was.

You got it.

173, sweetheart, I'm telling you right now, any admissions person listening to this would be like, uh, okay. Okay, cool. Yeah. You might have to take some study skills courses, right? Because law school is really, really hard. I worked in. I worked at law school for six years. It's really hard. It's amazing what those students can do. But with the 173, there's gonna have people knocking on your door, and they're gonna want to talk to you about your undergrad GPA. But don't walk in the door already with your head hung low. Many of us did way better in grad school than we did in undergrad because we just got through Grad Undergrad, and then we realized, oh, man, life's important, right?

Yeah. I would love to go to one of the top schools, but because I know, like, the ending salary will be high, however, I don't want to get into that 250k debt. Yes, but I want that. Yeah, but I want that. I don't know if I. It's probably not worth it. Is what you're saying correct?

I'm telling you, if you were my daughter and she came home and said, dad, I took the LSAT, and I got a 173, I would love her to go to law school. It's a trying hard, hard experience. And they teach you how to think. They teach you a different way of seeing the world. It's amazing. And I would say, go to the best school you can go to for free, period. And, yes, I would forego all the fancy.

They won't give it to me first.

They will.

They will. Well, I would go to a second tier or third tier state school with that score for free, because here's what you're gonna do. You're gonna walk out with a JD, with a juris doctorate, a law degree. And if you want to go work big law and have 2200 billable hours and not see your friends or family, yeah, you can get a big salary right out of the gate. And I've done my research, was on lawyer mental health. It's not great. Or you can get a job, go serving folks, and you can do any job in the world you want. If you don't owe anybody any money.

You'Re gonna have options. You're gonna be able to make decisions with peace instead of just rushing into the first paying thing.

That's right. And you might go to law school and be like, love estate law, or I really love. I want to. I want to go be a public defender. I want to be a prosecutor. Like, going to school with no debt allows you to take. Follow your. Your guts where you want to go. Not, like, follow your dreams. Not like that. Follow, like, where you are pulled. And law school will show you where you're pulled because you got to really commit to it. So go in there, and if you get into big contract law and you want to do big law. Amazing. Go down that road, the 173. That tells me you've got the computational power. You're going to have to learn some study skills, and you're gonna have to really buckle down on this stuff. But, man, go get it. Go get it. Go to the best school you can go to for free. You got a 173. You have a golden. You have a willy Wonka ticket.

My friend and let's say that, you know, they don't. It is like either Yale or Stanford, the top at the moment. But they don't give me, don't go. They give me a little bit.

I'm just telling you what I would tell my sister or my daughter. Don't go.

Don't go. Okay.

The Stanford law degree will look awesome, and you'll have some great networks, and you'll make some good money out the door. There's no question about that.

Okay. And there's no way that I can probably work full time then, right?

Absolutely.

They wouldn't.

They would allow it.

Yeah.

Um, I think many schools, if I remember correctly, the ABA, had something to say about it. They may have shifted a little bit and changed somewhat, but no, for a full time program, you got to be there. And once you get into it and realize what it is, you'll realize you can't work it. I mean, it's. I mean, you're reading hundreds and hundreds of pages a day. And not just reading them, but you're reading them so that you can recite them in front of a professor the following day. It's a tough, tough slog.

Are you in a good place financially right now?

I would say so. I have about 65k in savings.

Oh, you're so far ahead of the game. You're amazing.

No debt.

Actually, I have a 24k car loan, which I could pay off, but I haven't yet. I only paid eleven k in cash.

Today. I officially know you're smarter than that. I know your LSAT score. You're smarter than that. Pay it off today.

Okay? Okay.

And don't worry about other big goals like home ownership and all that. That will come later on. Right now, your one focus would be, let's apply. Let's do early applications, let's perfect the application, the personal statement, all of that stuff. Maybe consider those lower ranking schools in order to go debt free.

Okay. Okay.

That's going to be your best path. You will never call in with regret that you didn't go to the XYz school. When you're the first one to graduate and all your peers are drowning in debt going, what are you going to do? I got to go to work, man. $250,000 in loans and you go, I get to choose.

Let me tell you something great about the loan. I mean, the law school ranking system. George, and I'm talking to you, but. George, or on. I'm talking to you, but I'll tell this to George. So they were trying to figure out how important these things are. And much of it is voting. So they actually mail stuff out to other professors and law school deans, specific people, and they say rank these schools. And so it's a reputation score. What do you think about these guys? Well, they stuck. I think it was Penn in there, Penn State. And it ranked very high. Like top 15, top ten. Like law schools. There was no law school. It didn't exist. It was simply a. Oh, that's a pretty good school, man. Yeah. And they wrote down. And so it tells you that the ranking systems very flawed. Incredibly flawed. Would a Stanford law degree be good? There's no question about that. Anyone who tells you no, it's a waste. It's not. It's amazing. It'll be amazing. And I know some students that are, have changed everything in their family tree, going to second and third and fourth year law schools.

And they went and worked their butts off helping people in the community, and they've done amazing things. Love it.

Great advice there. Thank you so much for the call, Ana. That puts this hour of the Ramsay show in the books. Thank you to doctor John Deloney. All the guys and gals in the booth keeping the show afloat. And you, America, will be back before you know it. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey personality George Campbell, joined by best selling author doctor John Deloney. Open phones at 888-25-5225 you call us and we'll help you take the right next step for your life. Your relationships, your emotional health, and, of course, your money. Amber is going to kick us off this hour in Denver, Colorado. Amber, welcome to the Ramsey show. How can we be of service?

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure.

What's going on?

I'm kind of nervous.

That's all right.

Take your time. My husband and I are in baby step number two. I just recently, like two months ago, started listening to you guys. And then I just kind of told my husband, here's what I'm going to do and here's why. I do the budget in our house. He just trusts me to do everything, and he just kind of lets me do it. But now I'm throwing all of our extra money at our debt, so we have nothing left to do fun stuff with. And he says that he's on board and he understands why I'm doing it. But then every weekend, it seems like he's like, well, we have no money, and I work so much, and I'm working for where's all my money going? And so I just. I don't. I kind of wrote down the baby steps for him and tried to explain it, and I just don't know how else to. He says he's on board, but then again, it seems like he's not.

Yeah, he's. He's not. He's not. Is your husband kind of a brat, or are you. Are you kind of the. The dictator in the house?

I mean, I guess. I don't.

I don't like, this was. Mama gets what mama wants. Is that the kind of house, or is it. No, I'm trying. And your husband's just kind of a whiny baby.

I think he just feels like he works 52 hours a week, and so I think he just feels like he worked so much and he's not seeing where it's going.

Okay.

But he knows it's going to debt.

He knows because I tell him yes.

But that's not enough for him, even though he said, well, babe, I trust you, so you just do what you want until it affects my life.

Exactly.

And all of a sudden, I have.

Opinions until I get poopy pants, and then I'm gonna throw my little temper tantrum. Here's the deal. Most of the time, we hear this call. When people go at some. At their. At their spouse with a plan, it almost always fails. I got this plan. We're gonna do this thing, and it's gonna cost you your truck or your minivan or your suburban or your money time. But we're doing this plan that almost never works. What does seem to work time and time again is I'm so scared, I can't breathe in this house. We owe this much money, and if we want to have a family, if we want to go do these things, if you want to retire someday, if something were to happen to you. I can't breathe. Can we follow this crazy plan with these crazy group of people out of Nashville, Tennessee?

It's.

Millions of people have done it, and it's going to suck for two or three years. Can we hold hands and do this together? That's been the way we've seen it work. Two people have to be on the same page and commit to. Yeah, it's gonna be a lot of Saturdays where we're staring off into space. We're going fishing with worms we dug with our. With our own hands. Or if you're George, you're just. You're just gonna use that same vape cartridge over and over and over again. Right? Even though it's empty.

Throw up in my mouth, you just got it.

Like. But you see what I'm saying? Like, that's how you get each other on the same page. It's a shared, common vision. It's not just another. It's not just another Tupperware plan or an Avon plan or an essential oils plan. This is like a life change. Does that. Does that ring a bell?

Yeah. I mean, I did kind of explain that to him in that way, just not in those exact words.

Okay.

And he. When I. When I tell him, he does say he gets it and he's on board. It's just.

He does some saying that with his mouth, but he needs to show it with his actions, his attitude, his behavior, that he's all in.

Have you sat down with him and said, hey, we're three weeks into this or four weeks into this or two months in, and every time you say that on the weekends, it makes me just want to quit, because I don't want to be the person all by myself trying to hold this thing together. Have you said that to him?

I mean, I told him it makes me feel guilty because a lot of the debt is my student loan, okay? It's not his. And he makes more money than me, and then I feel like. I feel guilty, like I'm taking all his money.

No.

He signed up to marry you. Huh? For better, for worse.

And how much he makes versus you make has nothing to do with it. If you stay at home today and produce zero income for the family, you still get just as much as a vote. And if that's how he st. I don't know. It sounds like you've put that on yourself, that he makes more money, therefore, he can do what he wants and he can have his attitude. But it sounds like you guys have not been on the same page since you've been married. Is that fair to say?

I mean, I don't know.

How long have you married? Married for?

I know, I know. Hey, Amber, stop saying that, okay? You keep saying he's saying it, but he's not doing it. He's saying it. Behavior is a language. What is he saying? Every Saturday when he gets after you for not having any money, for spending his money. Oh, my gosh. I work too hard for not. What's he telling you? He's telling you, I don't care what I agree to. I'm gonna make you feel bad for my discomfort, my short term discomfort, even though you're trying to save the family. I'm making you do it all by yourself. I'm gonna make you feel bad. That's what he's saying with his actions. And it's fair for you to say, stop hurting me like that. Quit. We agreed on this. I don't want to hear you complain about it all weekend. And you have to stop carrying around this. I'm less than. I'm inferior. I feel guilty. Y'all both signed up for this deal, this ride together. How much debt did you bring into the marriage?

I have two student loans. One of them is 32,001. Of them is now 18,000. But it was at 25.

Okay, so 50 grand. And then how much did he bring in?

He didn't bring in any. But then as we got married, we bought a car, and he got a motorcycle.

Okay, so what's your total debt profile right now?

About 90,000.

Okay, what can you sell tomorrow?

I don't know.

The motorcycle. Do what?

He won't sell his motorcycle.

Do you own it outright or they got payments on it?

We just owe 4000.

Just.

This is how we get here. Well, it's just 4000. It's just. It's just a student loan. It's just a credit card.

Is it your next lowest debt?

It is the lowest that. It will take us two months, and it will be paid off.

Okay. Will you breathe after that? After his precious little motorcycle? That's more important to him than his wife's sanity? Will you be able to breathe after you get that motorcycle safe and secure?

I don't know.

You just have this voice as though you've been dragging this thing all by yourself. How much money do you all make together?

About 80,000.

Okay.

You got more debt than you do income. This is a problem. We need more shovel. If I gave you financial peace university, would he agree to go through it and watch all nine lessons with you?

I think he would.

Done.

I'm gonna give it to you anyways. You need him on the page.

We're gonna give you the everydollar app, too, so y'all can be on the same page with. With all of your daily, your spending every day and every month.

You threw Ramsay at him. Now we need to walk with him and show him the journey instead of Dave being a cuss word in the house. I think that will change things. You went to the mountaintop, found the Ten Commandments, brought it back down, and all of a sudden, he got a list of rules. We need to change that narrative. Hope it helps. This is the Ramsay show. Listen, your grad just spent roughly 4320 hours in class, and we're guessing that nobody taught them how to win with money. But you can still set them up to win with gifts, like the total money makeover, breaking free from broke, or Ken Coleman's. Find the work you're wired to do, which includes the get clear career assessment. And listen. These gifts could change the trajectory of their lives. And if it helps them earn, spend, save, or invest money the right way, you'll find it@ramsaysolutions.com. Store that's ramsaysolutions.com store. Welcome back to the Ramsay show. I'm George Campbell, joined by doctor John Deloney. You've heard us mention every dollar on the show, and that is our budgeting app that we created to help you make the most of your money.

And, you know, if you've heard the show, your greatest wealth building tool of your income, how do you control that income? Well, you gotta do a budget, and it makes it real simple to plan your spending, track expenses, and save for what matters most to you all in an easy to use app. And you can download it on the App Store for free or Google Play. Today, I would highly, highly recommend it. Thomas is up next in Fort Collins, Colorado. What's going on, Thomas?

Hi. Thanks for having me. I'm Colin. I'm currently a college student at CSU. I'm 20 years old, and starting in August, my college fund will be running out, and I'm going to be up to paying, having to be paying everything out of pocket. Currently, I pay for about half of my expenses. My current rent, along with my tuition, is paid for from this college account. But starting again August, that will be completely gone. So I'll be adding around $800 to $900 a month in expenses for me, not including cost of school. And I was wondering what I should do to plan for those extra expenses.

Who was paying? You said this all coming from the college account as family helping out at all?

Yes. So this. This college account was set up by my parents. So I was fortunate enough where, you know, they say they're large sum of money. However, you know, it's not enough to fully cover four years of college.

Okay.

And they knew that going in. Did they have a conversation saying, hey, when this money runs out, here's the plan? Or was it just be with God?

Good luck?

Yes, it's, you know, we've not really talked much about it. I know the expenses are on me. You know, they just don't have the money to throw at college for me.

Okay. So they're unable to help at all. This is all going to be on you, and you want to avoid taking out loans.

Where do you work, dude?

So that's another point. So currently I work for myself. I do coins and precious metals sales.

Do you make any money?

And I do. I make around 15,000 a year at the moment. But I am raised. I mean, that's my pace averaging out this year. I am on, you know, I'm increasing my average sales, you know, week over week, basically.

How much time are you putting into that?

It depends. So I directly, in sales, I do around 8 hours a week. Then that's another around 6 hours a week in shipping time, as well as another probably six to 8 hours in inventory sourcing.

So you're talking like 22 hours.

Yep.

For $15,000 a year.

Yeah. But the advantage for me is, you know, I work odd hours, you know, because it's myself. And so I. The times that I work normally are at night.

Well, here's. Here's the deal, Thomas. This is a hobby, and it's probably a hobby that you love, and it's cool, but it's not a job. You got to go get some job. We can make some money. You're about to lose your ability to go to college.

Yeah, no, that's my question was do I ramp up this summer or just go and get a full time job over the summer to start building a nest egg as well before getting back into the school year where I can't work as much.

I was able to work full time and have a family and go to school full time. As a doctoral student, I think you can figure it out. You can figure it out, especially your senior year. Unless. Are you an engineering student?

No, I was, but I switched out of it.

Okay. What's your major now?

I'm in business. Undecided between accounting or finance.

Yeah, you can work. You can work like mad. And if you get a job in accounting or finance adjacent, you can make some good money and do something close to or next door to your. What your major is going to be, what you graduate, and you'll kill three birds with 1 st. You'll make some money. You might even get some internship hours out of it, and you're going to have something to put on a resume for somebody to hire you one day. But, yeah, I would put this thing on the hobby burner and go get some real jobs. Making some real money.

Based on the math, you're making about 14, $15 an hour doing this on a good week, a good month. And so if you can find something making 18 or 20 out there, that's great. If you can somehow scale up this business and make the same or more with less time, that's a different ballgame.

Yes. Basically, my pace, as I said, was 15,000. Averaging out over the past two months or so, I have basically doubled in scale, where I basically make around 10% profit margins.

You can't put more time into it. You can't be spending 30 hours a week doing this. Correct. And so that's the thing to figure out. Okay, what's. You said 800 months for rent. What about school per month? In order to cash flow.

Sorry. As in, like, student loans for that.

To avoid loans. How much extra do you need per month?

Too much. Tuition is around 20,000 a semester.

So what's your plan?

To take out student loans for college. But I'm basically just trying to.

For any other loans, it's 20,000 a semester.

What are you talking about?

More? 16 a semester?

Are you.

Are you.

Are you out of state?

I am out of state, yes.

Wow.

Geez.

So why CSU? Just to get a general? You're not even sure what you want to do. Maybe finance, maybe accounting.

You know, I had initially picked here for engineering, and I switched my major, as you know. I just didn't.

But what's holding you at this college versus just. Hey, I'm going to take a pause. I'm going to go work. I'm going to save up some money. I'm going to finish at another in state school or whatever and finding a cheaper option. Yeah, I don't think it's worth dropping another forty k a year to finish this degree.

Yeah.

Where.

Where.

Where's home, dude?

New Jersey. But not for long. My parents are moving out of the country.

Okay.

And that's where my kind of predicament is the thing, where.

Here's the challenge. You've left yourself. This was a math problem three years ago, and you knew this math problem was going to be on you.

And now it's two months away, and you're going. I'm going to be broke.

Yep.

So what was the game plan to cover the next three years of school?

At the time, I was not aware. Expenses came up, and I thought that there was going to be more money than. There was kind of a miscommunication.

Did you blow through the money? Was it supposed to get you through more than more time?

It was not. No, there was supposed to be more. I thought I was under the impression that there was more money than there was.

So you didn't have the conversation with your parents?

Yeah, I didn't have the. You know, we did, but we didn't.

So here's a conversation I want you to have. I've never tried this. I don't know if it'll work, but I want you to give it a shot. Okay. I want you to go down to the admissions office and. Or to your. Like, to the. Yeah, go down to the admissions office and ask. And let them know I'm gonna have to withdraw from campus. And they'll probably have some campus program for you, some kind of student success program for students who are gonna withdraw and tell them I'm gonna have to withdraw for financial reasons unless I can get this move to in state tuition. And if it's in state tuition, then I can work like bananas, and I can pay this thing as we go. Otherwise, I have to leave. And here's the. Here's the thing. I'm wondering. If you drop out, if you leave for a year and you've established residency in Colorado, can you turn around and come back the next year and get in state tuition? And if so, take. Take a year off, do what I need.

I need two years for it to be in state tuition.

Okay.

And my problem has been then I haven't changed my residency to Colorado early enough.

How many more years do you need?

So I would need another full year, which, I guess, to your point, would work.

Yes. So ask them, because they can flip a switch and move it from in state to from out of state to in state. They can do that?

Yep.

Okay.

Yeah.

And I would go sit down with them and say, my parents are leaving the country, and I'm about to be in a mess. If I can, I can stay and graduate, which is a big deal to them. They need students to graduate because the graduate rates are dismal. Um, and just use and see. And maybe. Maybe they'll. You'll get lucky, maybe not. Maybe they'll tell you, dude, you've got a 2.1. You don't want to be here. We can tell you don't really care, and they're not going to help you out, but maybe you'll get lucky. But, dude, don't take out loans for a degree. You don't even know if you want it or not or where you're going or where you're headed. Don't do that, man.

Hang on a line, Thomas. We're going to send you Ken's new book. Find the work you're wired to do with the get clear career assessment to help help you make the right choice. And I'll also send you my book, breaking free from broke. Specifically, read the student loans chapter to fully understand the gravity of the situation and what could end up on the other side. Hang on the line. We'll send you those two books. Wishing you the best. This is the Ramsey show. I know you work hard for your money, and the key to keeping more of it in your pocket is by making a plan for your spending with a budget. And everydollar is the budgeting app that I use personally because it's perfect for looking every dollar you make in its little president face and telling it exactly where you want it to go. Just like you told that guy in traffic exactly where you wanted him to go. And even better, everydollar walks you through the entire budgeting journey, so you always know your next right step. Download everydollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Today I'm George Campbell, joined by doctor John Deloney.

This is the Ramsey show. Open phones at triple 8825-5225 Kevin is up next in Colorado Springs. Kevin, welcome to the show.

Hey, thank you. I really appreciate that.

Sure.

How can John and I help?

Yeah, so I've only been watching and listening to you guys on YouTube and the live show occasionally for the past three weeks.

Thanks.

I know, yeah. I'm a little late, unfortunately, but I'm here and I'm ready to get some stuff done. But I kind of ran into, as we're doing baby steps one and prepping for baby step two, I ran into an issue with my truck. I know one of the steps is just sell everything, and we've pretty much done that with the exception of my truck and my wife's vehicle. Unfortunately, we're upside down on my wife's vehicle because she got rear ended and then a hell storm, and we didn't have gap insurance, so we got an, got her a new vehicle and we were upside down on it. But my, in my genius, seven months ago, I bought a brand new truck thinking like, oh, yeah, I deserve it. And we're fine. We got, you know, $3,000 extra a month left over. And now I have a truck that I can't sell because I don't think anyone's going to want to buy it specifically because why would they spend that amount of money on a truck that has 8000 miles versus zero?

You would be surprised.

Yeah, you'd be surprised. What?

What?

Really? Okay.

What's the loan on it.

40. I have 43,000 left.

And what could you sell it for? Private party.

I mean, 43,000 is what they're paying for. Like a brand new one, a 2023 model. I haven't looked at the 2021.

You might be able to get 41,000 for it.

Yeah. And then there's the warranty that I could probably maybe convince someone to get. You know, you might be able to get that refund. Yeah.

You might get it refunded. Yeah, just fight.

I might be able to break even on it. Um, okay. Do you have a family vehicle I could borrow for a while?

Perfect.

But done, you know? But done. Do it all. Yes.

What's your household?

And if no one. I guess my concern is no one wants to buy it, right?

You bought it. Yeah.

That's a fist admit you don't want to get rid of the truck.

Yeah, it probably is.

Awesome. You bought the truck. 8000 miles is nothing.

Yeah, 8000 miles is basically new. It's good.

Many people go for that barely used vehicle. That's a lot of people out there.

Barely used vehicles.

Barely used.

And then with that extra money. So our mortgage is pretty clear, clean cut. We don't owe anything on the monthly payments because we have a few family members living with us, and we actually make dollar 800 extra a month on top of our mortgage. Would you focus on my wife's upside down vehicle so we can sell that as well? Or focus on, like, Ir's or our credit card debt.

What's your household income?

117 a year.

And what's your total consumer debt? Not including mortgage?

Not including mortgage. About 120.

Bro, you make too much money to be this broke.

Yeah, I agree. I thought I was of the. Until three weeks ago when I found you guys, I was of the understanding that that's just something you do. You. You get debt.

You.

You fight for your credit score to be high. And I, you know, I totally bit the poison apple and just let it consume me and reverse all of that.

You are broke, right?

Not really. We have, by estimates, because this is the first month, we have $3,000 extra left over a month after all our bills are paid.

Okay. What if you had no bills?

Yeah, we would have.

And by the way, if one of you gets fired or laid off, and if you've watched the news lately, layoffs are just coming in waves now. Yeah, it's over. You've built a house like a family.

Eventually. Yeah.

You're. You are built a house of cards, and you are hoping somebody doesn't fart in the living room, dude. Like, you're just so hopeful you're broke.

Yeah.

Until you internalize that, you're not gonna be able to go through the pain of what George is gonna walk you through because it's gonna be painful to get out of debt. It's gonna suck. You're gonna be driving a family car, making that kind of money. You're gonna have a cool wife and.

I are totally okay with it. I've already kind of shown what else.

Can you sell in this debt? Is it just her car, your truck? Ir's debt. What else is in this pile?

Nothing else. We've sold everything else we've got. I've gotten rid of a.

No, you have 120,000 in debt. So 43 of that is your truck. What else?

Credit card. I would say credit cards. Like, we bought a new stove. Our stove went out a new dishwasher when it went out because.

What's the credit card debt total?

About 22,000.

Okay, what else is in that hundred? 20.

The IR's is about 27. And then the other two large portions are the two vehicles.

Okay. The 43. And then the rest is your wife's. What's left on her own?

Yes, about 32. And we're upside down by about 3000.

I'll sell that to dude. Go to credit only by 3000.

Do you have any money in the bank?

We're at like 800 working towards the.

So you're bragging about the extra 3000? Where is it all going, bro?

Comey.

Well, this is the first. This is our first month. We're going to find out at the end of may exactly how much we have left and all of it's going on something.

Okay, scrape together the difference.

What is that step?

Scrape together the difference that you're underwater on both of these vehicles and then get rid of both. And if you need to save up a little more to get her a beater car because you might have hard time getting two family members to let you borrow cars. Then do that and get her a beater car for now. That leaves you with the IR's debt and the credit cards. You're going to do the IR's debt first. That goes to the top of that snowball.

Don't. For your soul brother.

Okay. Okay.

So you're gonna tackle the IR's debt. Then that'll leave you with all the different credit cards. And you're gonna tackle those smallest to largest balance. And by then you will have freed up the truck payment, the car payment, the IR's payment, which means you're gonna get a lot of steam and momentum on these. That final debt.

Yeah. We were gonna do credit card debt first because our IR's payment is like $200 a month. It's not much. And we were gonna get rid of the credit card debt first because our assumption is we'll be done with that in eight to nine months and that'll free up 2000 extra dollars.

Now is not the time to do that.

Speaker three, bro. Has your plan worked? Just be honest.

No, because I didn't really have one. Exactly. The other plan was the regular, we.

Tell you this not out of arrogance, but because we've seen thousands of people, 10 million people have followed this plan, and we've got to witness the stories. And the debt snowball is the best way to do it. And it's going to take scorched earth and sacrifice. And right now you're sitting on about 80 grand in cars and depreciating assets.

Yep. Yeah, absolutely.

So we are done live in la vida Loca. We're going to sell everything, and it's going to be a year or two or three of hard sacrifice, but you have a great income. You guys make 117 grand. So once you sell these cars, it's going to just go zoom, zoom. You're going to be debt free probably within a year if you buckle down.

How much of a loss would you take on the vehicle?

As much as you need to.

Because, dude, let's say you take a $10,000 loss, you have 80 something thousand dollars wrapped up in cars, and now you're down to only owing $10,000. You win. You just knocked off $70,000 in depreciating asset debt.

Okay.

And it's only going to get worse over time the longer you keep it. So the goal is you want to sell it for as much as you can, do not go to the dealership and trade it in, because they'll be happy to screw you on another deal.

Absolutely.

So sell it for a private party. You can check the Kelley blue book value, clean it up nice, take good photos, do your due diligence there, but you don't need to take a giant loss. From what you told me, you're only a few thousand bucks underwater on each of these.

Yeah, that's about it. Yeah.

And make an extra 3000 a month. You're going to be ready to do this deal within two months.

Okay.

And then George has on, like, put.

Some of that on the trucks and the vehicles to get a little less underwater, get rid of them and sell everything goes to IR's.

You can't sell the car until you clear the loan. And because you're underwater, you need to come up with a difference.

I would rather you go to a credit union and take out a $5,000 loan at a credit union to get rid of the cars, get rid of.

80,000 in loans, and you're going to go down to five.

Okay. All right. I never heard that before.

I know.

The only time we're okay with you going quote into debt because you're really. You're able to get rid of so much debt.

Hang on the line.

Do.

We're gonna hook you up with financial Peace University. Sound like a good guy? Dude, I know you work your butt off and it sounds like you're just doing the next thing, and the next thing, the next thing, and all sudden you're underwater. We're gonna send you fpu. But you and your wife have to go through this class together. You gotta promise me you're gonna use it. We're also gonna send you the best, the best budgeting app on planet Earth for a year for free. It's the everydollar app, but you gotta use it. And y'all are gonna be free faster than you know it.

Thanks for the call, man. This is the Ramsay show. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm George Campbell, joined by doctor John Deloney. Our scripture of the day. First, John 318. Dear children, let us not love with words or speech, but with actions and in truth. Aldous Huxley once said, facts to cease. Facts to not cease to exist because they are ignored. Interesting.

Go back. Go back to that Bible verse real quick. Put that up there. A scripture verse.

That's first, John 318. Dear children, let us not love with words or speech, but with actions and in truth.

Yeah, this is. This is the original way of behaviors of language, man. If you want to say what you're gonna say.

The OG right here.

That's it, man.

I love.

That's one of my favorites.

It's all about the action.

Stop talking and go serve your neighbor.

Show me.

Don't tell me talking. Go serve the widow, dude. If you're this or that, shut your mouth and go do the next right thing. Just so good.

That's a good principle to live by. Right there. Love it. All right, let's go to the lines. Brittany is in Kansas City. Up next, Brittany, welcome to the show.

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call.

Absolutely.

My question is quite layered, but to make it as simplistic as possible, how do I go about not being solely responsible for the taxes and upkeep on inherited property.

Who's involved here?

Very long story short, my grandfather passed in November, and he was pretty wealthy. He made my sister and I 50 50 heirs on his liquid stocks, bonds, and his house. The three properties that are undeveloped would be owned by me, my sister, and my uncles.

How many uncles?

Two.

Okay, so there's three properties that are split between four of you, and then the stocks, bonds, and house is split between two of you, your sister, and yourself.

Oh, correct. Except one of the properties is just me and my sister.

Okay. All right. And so you're paying these property taxes and you're saying, I don't want to pay this. Are you paying these on your own?

Well, he just passed in November, so luckily this year the estate was able to pay for the taxes.

Okay.

But at the reading of the will, I had stated that I cannot be the sole person paying for the upkeep.

Well, your sister is the other person on the. She's on the deed, my sister's on.

The house, and my uncles and my sister are on the property.

You're paying property taxes on all of it?

I will come, what, next year?

But that's. Is that anywhere actually in the. The legal document?

I'm not.

Or did they.

Why did your family decide you're the person who's going to pay all this on your own and then they're not going to chip in?

Well, it's kind of unspoken. Like I said, it's kind of a long story, but my grandfather always took care of the taxes and always, like, took care of my uncle and my sister's living expenses. They. They would make $10 and spend 100. They've never been reliable on money. They've never been reliable to pay bills.

Well, the beautiful thing now is you're not your granddad and you get to change.

No. And I told him that. I said I don't make the income he ever made.

Here's the deal. They don't pay their share of property taxes. Then they don't get the house.

Yeah. Gets repoed, it's taken away.

And so that's part of the deal here. And so could you. Could you just force the sale of all of these and have a conversation and say, listen, you guys are not in a financial position to actually manage this, and therefore, we're going to sell it. Everyone's going to get their piece and we're going to be done with this? Is that a solution?

I can, and my lawyer did bring that up, but they responded with, oh, well, you know, this is three generations of inherited property. We can't let it go.

But they can't.

They can't afford.

Here's the thing. It's going to go away.

No, they can't.

It's going to go away. Whether you'll sell it, you can get some money for it, or it's going to get taken from you, it's going to go away, period. They can't afford it. And this is not your job, they.

Would have to agree, right.

You can force the sale of it.

I mean that. Here's the thing. The more complicated it gets, the more expensive it's going to get for everyone if you have to go to court for all of this. And so the best thing to do is everyone come to an agreement. The next best thing is mediation. Then if that doesn't work out, you'd have to go to the court system and go, we gotta figure all this out. And it's gonna be messy. It'd be like a partition lawsuit on your hands.

So it seems like at the end of the day, I'm still gonna have to pay something. Whether it's court fees or trying to.

Buy them out, I think you need to show them what's going to happen if we don't make a decision as a group, instead of just going, hey, we're going to fight this tooth and nail. You say, we can't afford this, you guys can't afford this. I'm not paying the property taxes on my own. So we need to come to an agreement on what we're going to do, on how we're going to sell, when we're going to sell, who's going to.

Get what, and let me ask you this. How much is this property worth?

The house I know was worth like 275.

Okay.

And the land, like the three properties of under undeveloped land? I don't know. I have not gotten a estimate or anything.

I want to ask you something crazy, okay. And this is not going to make great fiscal sense, but I'm just doing this for your soul.

Okay.

You have. How much. How much did all the stocks and cash and all the liquid assets, what? What did you take? What did you get? What was that inherently, you. A million bucks.

A million.

Okay.

Yeah.

What's the sole tax for you to sign this over to your nearest uncle and walk away from this house? You got a million dollars. And I don't want to lose my family. I don't want to fight. It's going to come up to 275 plus some land, maybe it's going to be 500,000 total, maybe 600,000 total, divided up across all these different people. You know what? Merry Christmas, guys. I'm out. Y'all can figure it out. It's gonna get taken from them. You know that. We know that. But then you're not spending money on attorneys and all that different garbage. I'm just walking away from it. If I'm gonna have a million dollars in cash and I have the legacy of my granddad that I get to honor, and at the same time, I'm not gonna continue his funding of people who are just leeches off of him. I'm not gonna do that anymore. I feel like it's wrong. I would. I would take a hard look at walking away.

You know, to be honest, immediately after he died, I had said that you all can take it, have it all. But then it was the whole, like, you were saying the emotional soul tie thing, and it's like, oh, well, you know, not to make it a race thing, but, you know, we're a family of color, and, you know, it's not really, you know, popular for us to have three generations of land, and we can't let this go. And. And I'm just sitting there like, well, you're basically telling me, you need to. You need to pay for this. You need. And I just think that's so unfair, for.

I agree with you 100%, and I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm heartbroken that your family is putting you in this position. Cause it's not fair and it's not right, and it's not honoring your granddad's legacy. Just not.

It's not.

It's manipulative, and it's vindictive because you got the money and they didn't, and they should have got the money and not you, and they're mad. So now that you're rich, you get to pay for everything. And I'm just sorry that they are dishonoring your granddad in this way.

I appreciate that. And I. Me and my grandfather were extremely close, and he said that, you know, throughout his lifetime, they spent their inheritance.

There you go.

There's a reason he trusted you to manage more. And what I need to honor that.

Honorable thing, and if I'm in your.

Shoes, I would get a mediator, because right now, it's you against the rest of your family, and you need that neutral third party to tell them the facts. And it can't be coming from you, because it clearly is not going to.

Go well, I'm sorry, sweetheart.

I would go that route.

I'm a proud lawsuit. I'm proud of you, and I hate that you've been put in this position. Geez.

Thank you. Thanks. Thank you both. I. Like I said, that was my immediate reaction, was to just walk away from it all. And I hadn't revisited that until you all just said that. So I definitely will take a yeah.

And sit with your lawyer. I'm not saying it's the right thing, and maybe that land is worth millions and millions, and this is a terrible idea, but I'm just not going to cash in my soul over this. I'm just not. I'm just not. Because you're fighting people that have no scruples. You're fighting people that have no. They're not trying to honor anything other than you give me mine. And they're inventing day by day, they're moving the finish line of what mine is. And you can't win that competition. And, dude, I'm all about legacy land. I'm trying to buy some for my family, but also, I can't control what happens three generations from now. I can't.

And what's the end game here? I mean, what's the, like, you know, ten years from now? What are we doing with all, you know, seven of you involved in this process? And who gets to decide what happens to the land? What gets built on it, what? It just feels like a messy thing. And for that reason, I would want out of this, whether that's selling it or you just opting out. Maybe they buy you out, but they're broke, so it's going to pose a problem. So it's not going to be fun. It's going to be messy. But I think mediation is the next best course of action before you make it even messier with lawsuits and more lawyers. But, gosh, what a sad situation. Brittany, that puts this hour of the Ramsay show in the books. Thank you to doctor John Deloney, all the folks in the booth keeping the show afloat. And you, America, thanks for listening. We'll be back before you know it.

Sa hey, guys. I'm Rachel.

And I'm George.

And you've probably heard our voices before on the Ramsey show.

And do we have a surprise for you.

Yep, we have our very own show, smart money happy hour, where we talk about pop culture, current events, and, of course, money George. It's a great show. And what else do we talk about?

So much, Rachel. Not enough. And yet too much. We talk about guilt tipping, because tipping is out of control and I won't stand for it anymore, which is why I'm sitting.

I'm glad you're taking such a stand.

And we also talk about something else I'm passionate about. Disney adults, George. Why is it a thing?

Listen. Some adults still find the magic.

Sure, we also talk about toxic money traits and girl math. And if you don't know what those are, you have to listen to the podcast.

Yeah, there's a lot there. You guys. It's pretty fun.

We keep you relevant is what I'm trying to say.

We help you out.

So pull up a chair to the happy hour you wish your friends were having. We promise you won't regret it. And if you don't have friends, we'll be your friends.

We will. We're great friends. So make sure to check it out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube or the Ramsey network. Apple.