Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life, specifically your money, your work, and your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by the incomparable, lovely Rachel Cruz. The phone number is triple-8-8255-225-8255-225. Rachel will be taking your money questions. I'll chime in if she lets me to see.

How that goes. I always will, Ken. I always want your thoughts.

I'm sure you do. We'll also take your work questions. Your income is your greatest wealth-building tool. Your income, multiple incomes is the best way to get out of debt and get through the rest of the baby steps. If you're feeling stuck, you're not where you want to be in your work life and your financial life is being affected, I'm here to help you on that as well. We'll take those calls. Let's get right to it. Ross is joining us now in Houston, Texas. Ross, how can we help?

Hello?

Hello, Ross. You're live on The Ramsey Show. What's up? Awesome.

How are you all doing today?

We're having a blast.

It's really good to get through to you all. I've been trying for a.

Couple of months. Well, today is your day. What is your question?

We got in a predicament where my girlfriend got in a wreck not too long ago.

Is she okay?

About a year ago. Yes, she was fine. She almost bit through her bottom lip, but she's doing it all held up and everything. We ended up purchasing a vehicle after that, out of spike. She went and got a challenger. Then about six months later, we found out she was pregnant. Now we have another vehicle, and we just kept rolling bad equity in this one vehicle. It is now has a loan for about $38, $37,000, and it's only worth about 20, 22. Wow. It's got a $664 payment per month on it. And then I also downsized from a truck to a smaller vehicle and got a loan on it like a smart person. And it's got a note for 505, 407 per month. And I was just wondering what you all would do. Well, I have an idea of what you all would do, but more the question is, how can I get my girlfriend on board to sell this car, if not both cars-.

Okay, how much is.

It- -to lower our notes?

Yes. Okay, Ross, how much do you owe in your truck?

I do not have a truck anymore. I down size to a car.

Okay. And how much is on that car then?

$21.

$22,000. Okay, perfect. How much does she make a year?

I don't know the exact on both, but I know our total together. Because I have the every dollar app. So it just shows a total of what our annual income would be, and it's 64. That divvies down to about five grand a month.

Okay.

Hold on. We can answer Rachel's question. What do you make out of the 64? What do you make?

I make around 36. Okay.

You guys are essentially making about the same amount of money. Correct. Yes. I have a quick question for Rachel. I'm going to ask him, but this is for you, because you're walking through this. I'm just curious. The question is, how do we get her on board? But you said that she got in a car accident and then she bought a, I think.

You said a Dodge. Well, he said we bought it. I know, you said we. I'm going to make sure your name, Ross, is not on her car.

That too. But I also want to know what it means by we did it out of spike, because I want to know where her head's at on this whole situation.

Well, she left into a guardrail, and then she didn't want to have to pay for the damages, so she just thought about getting a branded vehicle. It wasn't branded, it was used, but it was new to her.

Okay, so that helps me with her mindset on all this.

Okay, wow. Ross, is your name on her car?

The newest one, yes. Okay.

All right, Ross. Let's just have a high-picture chat here for a second. Because your whole language, you're acting like you're married. Your names are on each other's debts, you're combining income and all of it. And what can happen very quickly, because we talk to people all the time on the show, Ross, sadly, is that there's no legal binding. If you guys were legally married, then the risk then is somewhat mitigated, because if a divorce happens or their separation, there's legal action that can be taken. None of that can be taken in this situation. So I want you to be very cautious. And I know you guys have a baby together and all of it. I mean, you're acting like you're married. So you have to be so careful financially, Ross, so careful. And I would recommend keeping everything separate because you are not legally married, and this ends up becoming a complete mess. And so are you going to get married? Do you think that... Obviously, I'm hoping she's the one you guys are doing life together. You have a baby together. Like is marriage in the picture?

Yeah. The bad thing is we don't have enough money saved up to have a wedding.

Different question.

Ross, you can get a marriage license down at the courthouse, right? Yes, I do.

Want to get married, but the stipulation is a wedding. Because I've already gave the JP office run at it, and it was not taking.

Very well. How old are you guys?

I'm 21 and she is about to be 23.

Okay.

So- The stipulation. She has laid a stipulation out on you. She's 23.

She wants her wedding. She's a 23-year-old girl. I mean, this is- I get it. -that's not.

Surprising me. I get it, but it's not.

What needs to happen. It's not good. No, it doesn't. You're right. This is not me rushing you. If you guys don't need to get married, you don't need to get married. But I don't want you to keep playing like you're married, especially with money. Ross, oh, man.

Okay, so- The question is, how does he get her on board? I want to know your take on this because you do have a female point of view, too. She likes the car. She is pregnant. Or is the baby already here?

Yes, she.

Is eight months old. Oh, is that what's all? She's a new mom. She likes the car, and you have brought up the idea of selling it, and she didn't like that at all? Correct. Did you tell her why you think you should sell it?

I told her that we could... All she sees is the money on top, so we're not going to be making any money off of it. But she sees a vehicle that we're going to have to pay on, even though we don't have the nice vehicle.

Right.

Yeah. But also you'd be paying.

On- We would be on the track to paying off debt very quickly. Because I did it, and with the little amount that we saved, the most we saved on a single month was $800. And we threw that to the smallest loan, which is my car loan, to try to do the debt snowball. And it fluctuates so much, especially with our son, because he's going to have some surgeries coming up because he's got to get tubes put in his ear. And it just fluctuates when you have a baby. So sometimes we save $600, sometimes that's spent in Totally.

Well, let me just say this. That's the predicament. For sure. Well, you guys have, gosh, close to what you make in a year in car loans, and it's just too much. You guys can't afford these cars. So if you're underwater on the first one, I would probably sell it. I think I'd rather have $15,000 loan with a beat or car than a $37,000 loan making what you guys make. And then with your car, Ross, you're making 21,000 and you're making $36,000. You can't afford these cars. So you're going to have to sell them, get some beaters, take a loan out for the difference. It's not going to be fun. It's going to be uncomfortable. But from a financial standpoint, that's what the numbers show me.

Ross, you got to show her a monthly savings how you get out. Get in the details, cast vision. It's the only way you're going to get her on board. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hi, everybody. I'm Kathy Lee Gifford, and I've.

Been around a.

Long time. Every one of us, as we age, realizes that things.

Are.

Changing in our bodies, in the world around us.

Lots of times, I don't like what's happening.

So what can I do about it? Well, the one thing we can do is pray, right? The other thing we can do is take better care of ourselves. I do that by taking balance of Nature because I'm.

Not really good at nutrition.

I'm too busy, I'm on the run, and I don't need enough vegetables.

And I certainly.

Don't.

Need.

Enough fruit. And when I take balance of Nature, I can.

Feel good that I've done something for myself that I.

Can actually control. So take control, get Balance of Nature. Start your journey to better health with Balance of Nature.

Go to balanceofnature.

Com to get 35 % off your first preferred.

Order with free shipping and our.

Money backto guarantee. Go to balanceofnature.

Com or call 1-800-24-68-751 and get this special offer by using.

Discount code, KLG.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show on Ken Colean. I'm joined by Rachel Cruz. We are here for you this hour. The phone number is toll-free. You can jump in at triple-8-825-5255. That's triple-8-825-5255. The question of the day is brought to you by Neighborly, your hub for home services, the 19 home service brands nationwide, the network of local service pros on neighborly. Com can help you with just about anything you need in and around your home. Incidentally, Neighborly was founded to solve problems like Ken Coleman, because I can't do anything.

You and George Campbell are like two peas in a pod.

We are neighborly prime customers. Our poor wives, we can't do anything.

Do you know George on this show said something about table sauce? He's like, I mean, you guys go spend $1,000 on table-saws. He got lit up because everyone's like, They're like $100 to 200, and he thinks they're like $1,200.

Right. Well, again, I'm not even sure he knows what a table saw is. He just heard it and said it.

Or a.

Circular saw or something like that. Yeah, he has no idea. But nonetheless, if you're like me, please visit neighborly. Com/ramsie to find out more and improve your marriage.

All right, today's question is a long one. Get ready, everyone. Oh, it is. Buckle up. We got Barry in New Jersey. Is my wife a princess or do I need an attitude change?

Yes and yes.

All right, let's get other than their numbers. All right, let's get other than their numbers. We have followed your baby steps in our debt-free, but the house, our net worth is 1.6 million. We owe 80,000 on the house. It's worth 700,000. We're 50 years old. My income is 125,000 every year. Early in our marriage, my wife made over 100,000, but we had two kids. And later we had two more. We made the decision for her to be home and home school the kids all the way through high school. Huge sacrifice. Both agreed it was the best for our family. Now, fast forward 20 years, the kids are grown. We're doing well. Our lives and our marriage are great. But my wife is still not working. I have asked her to just work to knock out the mortgage to take that off my back and to help us build a gap fund so I can retire a little early. She has shown little effort of finding something and is not super motivated. We make plenty to live on. But I've noticed some of our budget drift as she has more time on her hands and isn't needing to spend devoted time to our kids with schooling.

Is she a princess for not wanting to go back to work, or do I just need to suck it up and change my attitude and be grateful for the fact that she doesn't have to work. I know my knee-jerk.

I want you to go first because I have a very clear answer.

I think he needs an attitude change. I don't think she's being a princess. She worked hard with the kids. She's a stay-at-home now wife. He's doing fine financially. They got 80K on the house. They're going to pay it off. She's 50-plus years old. She's enjoying her life.

I agree.

But... I'm not mad at her.

I'm not either. But what do you say? In fact, I'm going to stay out of this and just ask a question. Okay. Let's say that Barry's wife, her name is Mary, just for fun. Okay. Let's say you and Mary go to tea or whatever you would do. She says, My husband, Barry, has asked me to go back to work. It's the same scenario. Sure. She says to you, We're fine, all the things you just said. But I understand he wants to knock it out, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He wants me to go back to work, and I just don't want to. What should I say to him? How should we handle this? What would your advice be to your friend Mary about her husband, Barry?

Mary and Barry. I could understand where he's coming from. I can see more for him wanting to retire early and wanting to get out of the work and stuff. I see that more plausible and understandable for some reason than even the house.

I know. But what did you say to her? Because he's clearly brought this up to her, and she's not.

Moving fast enough. I would ask her, What is it that keeps you from not working? Yes. Meaning, is it that you don't have a thing that you're passionate about that you want to do? Is it that you just logically have come to a conclusion that you all are going to be fine, like you're going to pay off the house soon? Yeah. He will retire at a decent age. There's no need for this urgency at this point in our lives. I would ask her those questions, and then I would want her to ask him, Hey, what is going on? What's more pressing? Do you get frustrated that I'm just home? Is that bother you? Do you think I'm... I don't know, because some resentment could be building on his end.

Yeah, could it be the budget drift? He's like, If she works, then she's going to keep her in a discipline.

Yeah, and obviously, she can't go and just do whatever she wants. We have to have limits and boundaries in life. But it doesn't sound like she's out.

Of control. No, not at all.

If they had two car payments and $15,000 of credit card debt, she has to get back.

To work. All right, so I want you to keep on this because you're getting us there. But let me interject on behalf.

Of Barry. Well, you get us there. Do you know where we're going?

Well, yeah, but where you were going. I wanted you to tell us what you would tell her because I think this is a getting on the same page. You're great at that. I would ask her. You're very intentional in your life with Winston. Here's my only take. I think he sees her as potential income, and he's got some stress, and he's got some urgency over goal, and he's looking at her, in this case, wrongly. It's very with me. I understand what you see. You see potential income that's not being maxed out, and you're going, Come on, babe. That's what I think he's feeling. I just wanted to throw that in there. What would you tell her? Because there's some stress on his end.

There is, and I just wonder on her end, Hey, is there other ways that I can help contribute to lowering that stress with me not having to go back to work? Would it make you feel better? And if we agreed on a budget and I actually stuck to my word, because if the budget's a drift, then there is a level of like, someone's not keeping their word, which is not great. I would have those conversations, but I also think that there's a reasonableness for him to say, Yeah, you guys are doing fine.

Yeah. Well, if anytime someone mentions twice the same phrase, Is she a princess? Me thinks that Barry thinks that she's a princess. What he means by that is not the compliment. It's like, You got it good, babe. I've been out busting it. Yes, you did your part. I would say to Barry, Hey, dude, I'm guessing there's already been a lot of tension around this, and you got to change your tenor and how you're going at this. Because if you're asking twice and a thing that you know may get read on the air, is she a princess? That tells me you are feeling some resentment towards her that's got to.

Get fixed. That's more of the underlying issue. I do think sometimes spouses, because our spouse is the closest person in our lives, they are the ones that we can just say it all, give it all, whatever. But I do think the intentionality, and you're great at this, Ken, asking questions. I think, and Winston, I've gotten in this rhythm, too, instead of just telling, you do that. Asking questions. Actually get to know your spouse on that level of what's really going on. And that takes some intentionality. But I think getting to the root of all of this is key. The root for her, why does she not want to stick to the budget? The root for her, why does she not want to go back to work? What's going on within her? And then for him, too, what is going on?

I love that you bring this up because we know there's all kinds of tension around money issues. This is a really great conversation. One of the things I learned from a coach years ago that I was getting trained by as I was getting into this type of work where I get to coach people, they told me to always ask what questions, not why questions. You hear this in a lot of therapy. If you're doing marriage counseling, a good therapist, we have a mutual friend who we did some work with, both of us individually, and it was like, Don't ask why questions. Ask what. In this case, Barry needs to get to a question where he goes, I've mentioned to you that you could work. What is keeping you from pursuing this? What are you concerned about? And allow her to share her voice and not be defensive because it's like, Why haven't you applied for something? Yikes. Right. She's immediately on the defensive and unable to do anything but defend herself.

Yeah, the finger pointing doesn't get anyone anywhere. Yeah, that's right. That's, and that is hard. And usually, too, I have found can in life in all my years. There's usually a balance, right? There is. She's probably not a full-blown crazy princess over here. Oh, no. But could there be some... Could there be some things here and there that she could do to help relieve some stress? Sure. For him, I think there's always this like... There's usually a middle ground.

My guy, Barry... My guy, Barry, he's a little uptight. A little advice to Barry is, Hey, you know what? Why don't you go take on a second job?

Go enjoy your life.

No, I'm going to tell him to go pick up. Mary's like, Barry, why aren't you home? He's like, I just really want to knock this out. Then she starts to go, Well, why do you feel they need to do this? That could be.

A little...

A little passive-aggressive way to do it, but it's better than what he's doing now. My email on the second largest radio show in the country and asking is my wife, a princess. By the way, I don't know if her name is Mary. I just think it'd be really cool if Barry's wife.

Was Mary. Mary. Barry and Mary.

Can you imagine? Ladies and gentlemen, I introduced to you, Mr. And Mrs. Barry and Mary, whatever. I don't know, folks. The drugs are kicking in. They'll be ready when we get back from the commercial break. It's ADHD. It's a real thing, folks. The struggle is real. This is The Ramsey Show. Yo- yo, Dr. John Deloney here. Hey, it's pumpkin spice latte season. Just joking. Those are gross. But it is fall. It's a little cooler. The sun's going down earlier, and God help us, daylight savings time is ending or starting or whatever, the time is changing again, and it can be exhausting to adjust. Make sure you're moving your body every day. Make sure you get some sunlight in the morning and hopefully in the evening, and make sure you get 7-9 hours of sleep every night. I can't stress enough how important this is. Sleep is the cornerstone to your physical and mental health. For me, amazing sleep starts with an extraordinary mattress. And that's why I love DreamCloud. Right now, DreamCloud is running an incredible offer, 40 % off all mattresses plus an additional $50 in savings exclusively for our listeners. Go to dreamcloudsleep.

Com and enter promo code John Deloney. That's dreamcloudsleep. Com with code John Deloney for 40 % off all mattresses plus an extra $50 in savings. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Colman. Rachel Cruz joins me, and we are taking your calls on your money, your work, and your relationships. Triple-8-8-2-5-5-2-2-5. Triple-8-8-2-5-5-2-2-5. Grand Rapids, Michigan is where Ethan is. Ethan, how can we help?

Hi, how are you?

Good, sir. What's going on?

I am a 22-year-old college senior. I'm looking to propose to my girlfriend in the next couple of months. But when we get married, she will have about $70,000 of student debt. I was just curious on some ways to best prepare myself to take on that debt when we get married in a year-ish.

Well, we start with a stiff drink, and then we get... No, I'm kidding. That's terrible advice. I'm kidding. I'm joking. Just making sure everybody's paying attention.

Have a little cocktail and you're.

All good. I mean, we've got the baby steps, but they usually work better when you're inheriting debt with a stiff drink. You have no debt at all? No, I don't. Okay, all right. So tell us emotionally where you are. I would just love to know this. Because you're calling to ask this question. How is it hitting you, knowing that you're going to marry this gal and you're starting with 70 grand in debt?

Because I don't have any debt, a little uneasy. We're also moving to Iowa. I took a job out there after I graduate.

What are you.

Going to be making? Kind of a pre-tax away making $69,000 post-tax with a 5% contribution to a 401K about 55.

Does she expect to work as well?

Yes, she has one more semester of college, and then she'll be getting a full-time job.

In what field?

She has a business degree. She's not exactly sure what field she likes to get into, though.

Okay, so what would you-.

So that's the starting salary.

Yeah. What do you think?

Thirty-five, 40? I would say, yeah. Forty-ish.

Yeah, probably in.

The 40-ish range. Yeah. I wanted to give Rachel those numbers because she'll walk you through what you're going to do here, but this is doable.

Yeah. I'm assuming the debt is student loans, correct?

Yes.

All my student loans. Okay, yeah. So here's if there is the positive side to this, even for me, because going into a relationship, we talk about this a lot with couples that are seriously dating or engaged entering marriage, that the money conversation needs to be had. And obviously, you guys have had that. You know what her debt is. And I think the most important part where my uneasiness would be not really is the dollars, because it's going to be a journey. You all will get out of debt. We can look at the numbers in a second. But I think where my uneasiness would be is where her value is when it comes to money, when it comes to debt. So if you told me it was $70,000, half in a car loan, half in credit card debt, because she just loves to go and shop and do whatever she wants to do, it's regardless of what money is. That's not her, right? That would tend to feel like, okay, we have a behavior issue there that could probably create a lot of conflict in marriage. Let's talk about that. But this is student loan debt, and it is what it is.

You know what I'm saying? So even the types of debt is different. So from a value standpoint, relationally, I think I would have a little bit of peace of just like, okay, this isn't a behavior problem per se, and just making sure that you guys are on the same page with debt. Never again. We're not going to use debt going forward. So that's more of that baseline to get to. And then when you look at the numbers, Ethan, I would not contribute to your 401K. I would put that five % back in your paycheck to put towards the 70,000. So I would do nothing. I would literally do nothing with my income except pay for necessities because you guys are in college. So I want you to keep living like you're in college. Keep living like broke college students for a few years where you just got your rent because I don't want you to buy a house. So rent somewhere. You guys eat cheap, no vacations. I mean, you guys are really going to buckle down, probably work a side hustle or two, work weekends. Do some things you guys have to do because the good thing is, too, in Iowa, you're not moving to the Bay Area or Miami or some high cost of living area.

So for you guys together, I'm like, Yeah, if you're making $1,000 together, you really could knock this out in two years, Ethan. I'm like, You guys could really say together, Hey, we're going to live on 50, 55,000, and you could get this 70 paid off in 18 months.

Absolutely right. The way I like to look at things like this, because I know it's really scary, Ethan, is let's say you do what Rachel said, and we try to knock it out in two years, that is $3,000 a month. Between the two of you with no kids, maybe you're working a second job, and you're living like college students, as Rachel said, could you put $3,000 a month towards the debt? If you can't, that's okay. But $3,000 a month towards the debt you're out in two years. Excuse me, you're out in... Yeah, that's exactly right. Can we get this done? The answer is unequivocally yes. Yes. The question then is how quickly. Is she on board, by the way, with getting after it?

I've mentioned to her that I'd like to pay it off as quickly as possible and have a tight budget and things like that. How did she react? We had to sit down and created the budget or anything like that. She was a little uneasy about it, but I think she saw the value in it.

Well, so the next step is, and.

Again- You guys need to do.

This together. Yeah, you guys are going to sit down and go, If we make this and we start laying this out, if we put $2,000 a month toward it, that's $24,000 a year. That's going to take us three... You just have to get real with the numbers. It is intimidating for anybody when you show up and you go, Hey, babe, I want to knock the 70 grand out as fast as possible. You didn't tell her how.

Okay, yeah. Yeah, it can feel.

Overwhelming to get this point. It's just like, whoa. Yeah.

Yeah. So you all sit down, run the numbers, and look at it. And here's the deal, even... And you can't force this upon her. There are so many questions of like, How do I get my spouse on board? I'm like, At the end of the day, they're an individual person. They're going to have to decide. But my encouragement, so if she listens to this at all, my encouragement would be the tighter you guys could lock arms and be such a unified force against the 70,000, the faster you do it. Ethan, you all are going to be 24 years old, two years in the marriage, no debt, have an incredible way of how you set your life up, and you get to continue on. There's such an upside to it. And I think you'll see the benefit not only relationally when you do that, but also financially. But it does take both to lock arms and say we're doing this. And I'll stress this, and I always hate to put an age of like, Well, you all are young, so it's easier. Because I know life is hard for everyone at different stages, but I think it is easier now, Ethan, than having kids and one of you all having to figure out childcare.

There's so many other dynamics that start to happen in life. You guys are at the prime, the prime just to do it, just to do it. And all your friends are getting their new jobs. If you're going to sacrifice the time, this is literally the perfect time to do it.

Please hear what she said, rent. Don't buy a house. Don't buy new cars. I know you're going to be adulting. You guys are going to be doing pretty well financially. But getting through this debt and getting emergency fund before you start to really get to the next phase of life, Rachel could not be any more correct, Ethan. It's worth it. But you're going to have to cast a vision. Don't tell her what we're doing. Tell her what you want to do, why you want to do it, and then you better be able to show her how.

Hold on the liney thing, because we'll pick up and give you guys Financial Peace University. This is our nine-lesson course and every dollar premium. So just to give you some tools to walk through together, so you guys watch these videos together. It's a very romantic date night instead of Netflix. Watch Financial Peace University. But start these conversations, sit down and do a mock budget of like, Hey, let's just dream. When can I do this. Let's just dream for a second. Once you're out of school and we're both working, what... Because honestly, you feel rich. I remember when Winston and I, when we graduated college and got our first full-time jobs, you're like, What? This is amazing. We both made 42 grand. You know what I mean? It wasn't like we made.

A lot. That's a lot of money combined.

It does. So, and start to feel those numbers and just see where you guys are going. When you can paint that picture as clearly as possible, it makes it realistic, it makes it fun, it makes it doable, all of it. But we're excited for you to congrats to on the marriage and everything.

Yeah, how confident are you that she's going to say yes when you pop the question?

99 %.

I thought you were already engaged. My bad. Sorry, I.

Thought you were- No, that's why I asked the question. No, not yet. He's 99 % sure. I'd like to work on that one %. I don't know what's going to be there.

I would, no. But I feel like that's a great... Would you ever go into a proposal if you feel less than 99 %?

No. I personally can't deal with rejection, so it'd have to be a lock. And the way he said it, he was like, 99 %. I don't know, man, I'd work on that a little bit. Slow down on the debt talk. Whoa! Whoa!

One more.

Quick.

Question that I.

Do have. Okay, super fast. We got 30 seconds. Go.

All right, well, in this time after I graduate until we get married, should I be saving up money to make a lump sum.

Contribution to our debt? Yes. Don't pay on anything on our debt until you're legally married. Once you guys are married, take your lump sum, throw it at the student loan debt.

Great question. Good question. All right, Ethan, we're rooting for you, buddy. Put a ring on it. Better be a romantic proposal. If it's 99 %, we got to go extra on the romantic ask. You need that extra emotion to get that one % in there. I'm just telling you, this is advice you didn't call for, but I had to give it. This is The Ramsey Show. I get heartbreaking calls and emails all the time from.

People.

Dealing with the loss of a spouse or parent, and many of them can't.

Even.

Grieve properly because they're too stressed about the money. This is exactly.

Why you must have term.

Life.

Insurance. You cannot leave.

Your family in this situation. Let the team at Xander Insurance help. I've trusted these guys for over 25 years, and I know they are caring.

And professional.

Go to zander. Com or call 800-355. 6-42-82. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me, and we are here to help you win in your money life, also your work life, and in your relationships, money, work, and relationships. They all have a way of just fitting together when things are working and opposing each other when things are not. Speaking of money, we found at Ramsey that if you're going to win in money, no matter what baby step you're on, the budget, it's the thing that powers everything. As John Maxwell once said, a budget is telling your money where to go. To that end, Rachel, we've got some incredible stuff we're doing. You are going to be offering something that's fun that will help people if they feel like, Oh, I get it, it makes sense, but I'm not at it. I'm scared of it, whatever it is, tell us about that.

Yeah, so we've been doing these every dollar webinars, and thousands of like 6,000 to 8,000 people sign up for each one, which is just incredible. I have one that I'm hosting on Monday at 11:30 central time. So if you go to every dollar. Com/budgeting, you can sign up there, or you can sign up and we can send you the recording after. But we really want to walk people through how to do a budget on a very tactical standpoint, because there's a lot of people that push against the idea of budgeting. So we'll go through some of those pushbacks, but then also walk through, Hey, here's what it looks like to budget, and here's the benefits of it. We do some live Q&A, so we answer questions. But it's about an hour long. It's free. It's really helpful. So again, if you're new to budgeting or have questions or just want to hang out on Monday at 11:30 central time, go to everydollar. Com/budgeting.

And there it is. All right, let's get to the phones. Hartford, Connecticut is where George is hanging out. George, how can we help?

Hey, how are you doing? Ken and Rachel. So I consider me and my wife right now pretty well. But however, with the economy in today's stage, I'm being a very frugal person, or someone call it being cheap. My wife is the person where she would prefer to take a big vacation every year. When I say big vacation, we're talking about like $6,000, $7,000. And I'm the person I can go 10, 15 years without taking a vacation. I just want to know, in my financial state right now, should I be able to... Or should I be a little loose with my my money or should I keep the way I have been doing it?

Sure. Okay, a couple of quick questions for us. You said you guys are well off. What does that mean? Give us your financial picture.

Okay, so I wrote on some of the numbers. Right now, we have a combined income of $210,000. Mind you, that's in Connecticut. We have a combined of retirement savings that's between 401(k) and Roth IRA between the two of us of $315,000. I also have a $10,529 educational saving account for my children. What How much?

How much you guys make a year?

Two hundred and ten between the two and.

The two. I'm sorry. I did write that down.

I apologize. So you've been doing these $6,000 to $7,000 summer vacations? Yes, or she wants to start doing them?

So we did one last year, and I'll be honest with you, I'm absolutely hooked. I want to go back. But then I wake up from reality like, oh, I can't do this. I need to keep saving my money because eventually we want to buy a bigger house.

What do you guys owe on your current house?

I owe $110,000.

Okay. And what other debt do you have?

I have zero debt.

Okay. What money do you guys have saved that's non-retirement?

I have $60,000 in CD right now, and I have $25,000 cash in my bank right now.

Okay. How long does it take you to save up for the $6,000 to $7,000 vacation that you said you could do without, but now you're hooked. George, how long does it take you to save up to 7,000? You're a budget guy, man. You're all over it. Yeah.

How long? So if I want to save it, if I'm put all my mind and effort to it, I can save up in maybe three months.

Right. What's the benefit, George, of taking your wife and the kids on the $6,000 to $7,000 vacation that, by the way, you're hooked on?

The thing is, no problem taking it, but what if? There's a lot of what ifs.

You didn't answer my question. What are the benefits of taking your wife and kids on this $6,000-$7,000 vacation that you can easily cash flow and save up for in a three-month period? What are the benefits?

Happy wife, happy life.

Okay, great. Not to mention you said you were hooked on it, George. It's good. It's good for everybody. Now, take me to the worst-case scenario that this $6,000-$7,000, and I want to stay with this number, Rachel, because that's the number you've given us, George. Give me the thing that you're so worried about happening where the 6,000-7,000 you're spending on the vacation puts you in a bad spot.

Well, I'm trying to say right now, currently we are saving to buy a bigger house. We are trying to actually move to a different state to buy a bigger and much nicer house. What's your goal? I want to make.

Sure What's your goal? You're not answering my question, George. You're like a politician on a Sunday morning show, so I'm going to act like the host. Listen, I'm trying to get you somewhere, okay? How much are you trying to save every year to get into the new house? What's the goal? Because I know you know it. What is it?

I want to save somewhere between $40,000 to $50,000 every year.

All right, so am I understanding that you want to save 40,000 to 50,000 every year? Am I understanding that you can't hit that number, 40 being the low number, right? Because you're spending six to seven on the vacation?

Oh, man. This is not the result I was hoping for.

What it means is I got you, because what I think I hear you say is you can save the 40 to 50 a year and cash flow the vacation. Am I.

Right, George? Aloha, George. Go.

George. You know, my wife is standing next to me.

Good. Tell her what's her name. What's her name?

Is she listening?

She is. What's her name? Mary. Mary, you're going on vacation.

Mary.

Rachel and Kim say you are going on vacation every year.

I was hoping that you guys are going to take my side and be like, You should be...

George, listen- George, he actually did take your side.

You can do both, is what Kim's saying. Yeah, you get to go on vacation, George. And also, George, and here's the thing. Okay, and I think I could get a little bit more on George's side. I could empathize with you a little bit more. If George, you're like, Hey, here's our goal. Here's this. We could be in two years earlier, and she really wants this. She wants both. We're trying to really reconcile. The main reason you said to Kim when he first asked you why he says, What if something happens? What if the world go... And it's like, That hasn't happened, George. You're living in a fear that has not happened. If that's the reality, then we will change it. We probably won't go on the $6,000 to $7,000 trip that year because the world has collapsed.

I'll tell you what I'm doing. If the world is going to hell in a hand basket, I'm going on vacation. I'm going on a $6,000 vacation. I'll tell you right now, I'm going to be on the beach when it all goes down. That's how.

I'm paring. If the worst-case scenario happens, pulling back your lifestyle may be a reality. That's what a lot of people find. You guys have gotten out of debt. You have your emergency fund. You make a great income. You have savings in retire. You're doing everything right, and you have the ability. There is margin there for you guys to enjoy your life. George, you have to enjoy your life.

Mary. Is Mary right there? George, is Mary still there?

No, she actually just leveled into.

A meeting. I was going to ask Mary where you guys are going this year.

Actually, we're going to KenNie. I was in Mexico last year, and then I'm just absolutely hooked. One thing I was going to say is I think where it is the lifestyle I grew up with. I grew up poor.

That's right.

In my family, I never went on vacation. In fact, we're very love the state at all. I still buy my clothes from Goodwill if I buy clothes. I'm going to.

Take you on a shopping trip, George. You and me, pal. J. Crew, it's going to be great.

I know, but that's a legitimate thing, George. We do find that. You talk about that.

You wrote a book.

About money styles. Yes, know yourself, know your money. You go back to childhood. So much of how we're shaped, our fears, our dreams, all of that is because of the emotional state or the true financial state of our household growing up. So it's very real, that fear, but it's not reality, George. So you're not that little boy anymore living in that scenario. You're a grown man who's done really well with your family, and that's the state you have to live in. Speaking of.

States, wherever you go on vacation, George, we'd like you to send us a postcard from you and Mary to Rachel and I, Ramsey Solutions, Kare of Rachel, Cruz, and Coleman. We'd love to see your postcard. It's going to be great. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life, specifically in your money life, your work life, and in your relationship life. The phone number to jump in is triple-88825-5225. It's a full toll-free number, not toll-free. Toll-free, actually. Made up a word there. It's always fun when you're in a hurry. Tolfrey, triple-eight-eight-two-five, five-two-two-five. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz is about to make fun of me. Go ahead.

Well, tolfrey, I feel like that's what we used to hear back in the day on TV when it was like a call for this product.

It's true. I'm an old.

Radio guy. Yeah, the internet wasn't there.

Everybody pretty much knows it's toll-free. You're going to give us a PO box to write to you, Ramsey? Yeah. Make sure you go to www. Ww. Ramsysolutions. Com if you're a new listener. We've got a new listener survey that will help you catch up. Remember that's www. Just kidding. A-o-l keyword, Ramsey. A-o-l. That's right. I don't know why I say that. I think it's an old radio app.

Toll-free.

Nobody even knows what that means. What is that? Do I have to pay a toll to call?

I know.

It means.

It's a free call. Just grandpa can. All right.

Have you had enough- See.

If.

Shelby- Are you feel.

Good about yourself? I feel good. I feel good, grandma.

We'll move on. All right, good. Thank you very much. Shelby is on the line in Sacramento. Shelby, how can we help?

Hi. Thanks for taking my call. My question is about when do you decide to put paying debt on the back burner, I guess. I have a lifestyle right now that's completely unsustainable. I have a three-month-old and a 15-month-old. I have no child care. And I am also working part-time, 25 hours for a week from home. And balancing those two things has been impossible. And currently, my kids are really suffering, honestly, sorry, because my job is so demanding that I'm not there for that the way I want to be. And I want to leave my job, but my job is paying for our debt repayment almost in full. If I were to quit my job and be at home with my kids full-time, it would significantly delay our ability to pay off our debt. I feel trapped one way or another.

Okay, well, Rachel, I'll walk you through the numbers on this, but you guys can still get through this, but you can't get through it, period, if you're burning out emotionally. I know we can tell. I just wanted to tell you, you're enough, you're doing fine, you're busting it. You guys will figure this out. But there was a season of life where Stacey was working to help bring in extra income. I was going for it, and my income was much lower. I took a strategic sacrifice, and we went through something similar like this. She was trying to help in which we had three kids under the age of three. I got to tell you, I was an idiot for not realizing it sooner. I just said, Hey, I'll make up the difference. But what matters right now is that you, the nerve center, the CEO, the mama, the wife, you have got to just be home taking care of the kiddos. I certainly empathize with what you're feeling. I just want to tell you, you're not a bad mom. Those kids are okay. You've not done any damage to them up to this point. That's all I wanted to say.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

So good. Okay, so, Shelby, how much are you bringing in with your job?

I bring in about 2,000 after taxes. But sometimes I work a little bit more, but that's the average.

Right now. Okay, and what about your husband?

He brings home about 5,200.

Okay. And how much debt do you guys have?

We have $30,000. It's just two cars. I shouldn't say just, it's still $30,000 in debt. It's two cars. And currently, if I were to continue working, we'd be able to pay off all of our debt in a year.

Okay.

I'm curious real quick. What does he do for a living?

He is a construction design manager. I'm so sorry, I don't know if you can hear.

My kid, but he is a kid. You're fine. You're fine.

You're talking to two people who have three kids each. We've been there, done that.

It sounds like it. It's beautiful. It's beautiful. It's in the same place at our house all the time. Crying and crying. You're fine. I love it. You're fine.

All the time, yes.

All.

The time. But my husband is a team lead technically for a construction design company. He is in the process of requesting a raise, but it hasn't happened yet, and we're not sure.

If that's going.

To be possible. Is he pretty handy, though?

Handy? No. He does computer work. He is not a.

Construction guy.

He's like, Nope.

Join the club because you're talking to the chief non-handy guy right here. I can barely change the toilet paper. I have to get instructions out. I do my own oil changes.

My husband can't. There you go. There you go. There you go.

There you go.

There you go. There you go. There you go. I hate, Shelby, you're a really sweet lady. Shelby, please don't tell anybody.

That again. What do you do?

I work for a nonprofit. I'm the program manager, so I run day-to-day operations, and it is not what I want to be when I.

Grow up. That's part of the issue as well. Okay, well, the good thing is the numbers are not crazy, Shelby. You guys don't have $200,000 of student loans, and it's going to take you eight years. You know what I mean? This is doable. What you're saying is instead of paying it off in a year, it may take two years because you have two little kids at home and you guys are trying to figure out or.

He goes. I wonder, could he make $1,000 extra a month? Yes. Could he do that? Or 2,000. If he makes 2,000, I'm not putting this pressure on him, Rachel, but if he makes 2,000 a month through side hustles or something, then he fixes this issue. He's fine. He's fine, yeah. He replaces your take home. So he needs to make 2,000 after tax and we don't miss a beat and.

You're with the babies. Or, Shelby, with your administration skills, you could do be an online assistant for one person for 12 hours a week. There you go. It's something small and you bring in half of what you're doing. Just bring in a thousand.

And that would still.

Be something. Yes, totally. And then he matches it, and then you guys do it, or you guys back it off a little bit, and it's 18 months, so you pay it off versus a year. You're okay. Nothing is on fire here. And we do celebrate the urgency of getting out of debt on the show. We love it because when people taste that freedom, they're all in, right? And for some people, it takes them longer because of income, because of stage of life, I mean, all of it, right? So this has to play with who you are. And if you're at this point where you're like, I don't want to do this all the time. I'm exhausted. This is not fun. There's going to be points of that in sacrifice, period. But for the long game, you don't want that for the long game. So yeah, I would be great if you guys pulled back a little bit. Again, like Ken said, if he could supplement something on the side just for two nights a week, you do some assistant work, be a virtual assistant, bring in a thousand a month or something, you're going to be able to get through this.

Are you guys just curious? Are the cars... Would you be upside down on the cars if you sold one or both?

Or what's the situation? That's a good point, too.

Yeah. Unfortunately, we bought these cars when we were young and didn't know anything about money. No worries. We had negative equity in both of them.

That's fine. You're going to pay them off.

Yeah, the plan is to pay them off and then sell one of them because we don't need.

Two cars. You're great. I can tell you right now, Shelby, I can sense a difference in your voice from the start of the call to now. I think you called asking for permission. You didn't need it. But you got to take.

Care of you. What's your husband saying? What's his take on all this?

He agrees. I think he's really stressed about the amount of debt we have, but at the same time, I have a wonderful husband, and he.

Really just.

Wants me to be okay. Yeah, me to be okay and the kids to be okay.

Hey, he can make more money. He can make more money. I'm telling him, you go watch this on YouTube. Hey, listen, bro, you can make more money than you're making. I know you can. You just got too much skill, too much experience. You can take this burden off your wife. It's going to be a win for everybody. But you guys are fine.

It's for a year to 18 months to 24 months. This isn't forever. Short time, short period.

I missed the screaming baby phase just for about a second.

-come to.

My house, Ken. Then I get over it. This is The Ramsey Show. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, it's Dr. John Deloney. This time of year can be great, but the holidays can cause anxiety for a lot of people, especially about giving gifts. Maybe your family makes super thoughtful handmade things, or they demand you buy really expensive things, or maybe you just like experiencing time together, or you all just pick up random gift cards last minute. No matter how your family does gifting, remember to take care of yourself. Whether it's going easier on yourself during tough moments or treating yourself to a day of rest from everyone and everything, remember to give yourself some love this holiday season. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. Betterhelp is flexible because it's online, so it can fit into your busy holiday schedule. Just fill out a short questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists anytime for no extra charge. In the season of giving, give yourself what you need with better help. Visit betterhelp. Com/daloney today to get 10 % off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P.

Com/daloney. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show America. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me. The phone number is 888-825-5225, triple 82825-5225. We're taking your questions on your money and work-related questions, feeling stuck, not sure what to do, want to get a promotion, I'm into baby steps. How do I balance all that? Love to take those questions as well. Let's go to Cheyenne. Love that name. Nashville, Tennessee. Cheyenne, how can we help?

Hey, guys. Thank you for accepting my call. So today I was just calling because first I just want to start. We started the baby steps in December of 2021, so we have no out-of-home that anything besides our house. We have 59,000 left. I'm 21, my husband is 22, and I was just wondering when we should start having kids. I'm ready now, but my husband wants to wait until we get a couple more things done on the house, just try to wrap things up. He also wants to be more financial stable. But my opinion, we're financially stable. You know what I mean?

Well, it sounds like you're stable. What's your combined income?

Our combined income, we make about.

$5,600 a month. Hey, Cheyenne, are you inside of a tunnel by any chance? We're having a real hard time hearing you.

No, I'm so sorry. Can you hear me now?

Yeah. Perfect. Maybe stand completely still and talk like a ventriloquist to see if we can get that through. What is your combined income?

Well, I don't have it all, but I know that we make about $5,000 or $5,600 a month.

Okay. You're both working, correct?

We are. My husband makes $17 an hour and I make $13, but we're working on also me changing career paths. Right now, I'm a dental assistant and he works on sewer lines and sewer main and stuff.

What are you wanting to transition to?

Something that's more, I don't know, like office work or something. I don't really have a set.

Did I hear you say you guys owe 59,000 on the house? You have nothing other than that. That's the only debt.

Nothing other than that. We'll see Dave, Ramsey, and hopefully by work, by work, 30.

I love it. We'll have our house paid off. Can I presume that you have a fully funded emergency fund?

We do. We have three months of us. If we don't work, it's funded. We have 20,000 in there right now.

Let me say this. Just for you guys. I understand your hubs. I mean, he's scared. You guys are really young, by the way. I get the provider gland, but I'm going to defer to my friend over here, the mama, the wife.

When to tell them when to have kids?

Well, no, it's not your responsibility to tell them when, but what do you think? Because I think you guys decide what is it he's worried about?

Yeah, well, and also, Cheyenne, we never, and you can tell your husband this, when it comes to kids or getting married, we never tell people you need to be in a certain financial spot. Even if you guys had $30,000 student loans and you wanted to have a baby, we would tell you to go on with your life financially. Is it going to be more stressful there? Sure. But I would never say not to have kids or not to get married because of financial reasons. I think that you can work all of that out because, honestly, there's never a good time. I'm like, you could continue to push that down. So true. I guess it would be understanding for you, what's causing you to want to have kids now? What is that in you, for him? What really is the root of... Is it the remodel? Or is he thinking, Oh, my gosh, I'm going to be married three years without kids and enjoy life? Which are both fine answers, but I think it's more getting down to the motivation and the why behind wanting to have kids right now.

Yeah. I do want to add that we've been married. We got married in August of 2020. So we have been married for a little bit. We got married young, but we act like an old married couple.

I.

Appreciate that. Listen, here's the deal. I don't care what the issue is. You want it, he doesn't right now.

Yes, that's it. I really think it's because he's scared.

Hundred %. I don't think he has.

Anything to do with financial.

He has nothing to do with it. He's terrified. What you have to do is, if his wife, you want something. I mean, you got to get onto his page for a minute in order to get him onto your page. That's all that is to say, Hey, a nice dinner, maybe a romantic weekend or something and just go, Hey, I want to know what you're concerned about, and just listen. Once he gets all that out, it's not a point-for-point, counterpoint thing, it's just understand him and hear him, and then express your support for how he feels and, Hey, what would make you feel comfortable? And just talk it out. I think when he feels heard and supported and he feels united with you that you're not forcing a timeline on him, I think things are just going to work out. That's what I think. I think it's just a basic, easy conversation about understanding, and I think it works out.

Yes.

Did he say he wanted to have kids? I mean, when you guys got married, I mean...

Yes, he does want to have kids, but not right now. I would have had them yesterday.

Yeah, I get that. And that's normal, too. You guys are not bizarre people. I feel like that happens a lot. One spouse is so ready, the other one is like, Oh. So it's a little bit of that. You're going to have to compromise that. So your original question when you called in is, Am I being irresponsible? No, you're not being irresponsible. No. On the financial side or any other side, you're fine. You're married, you want kids, but he doesn't right now. So that's where a little bit of that grown-up conversations have to come and play. And you'll have a lot of them in marriage. Oh, yeah, welcome. One-on-one. Welcome. This thing, this, this, this. Well, we got to get to the root of what's really going on. How can we each love each other well? I think Ken, always the advice I think is so great of seeing something through his lens. What is he seeing? What is he feeling? And there could be a lot there for him, which is very reasonable. A lot. There's that. And as always, with child, people are prepping for kids. I'm like, And you never know, right? You could get pregnant on the first try.

It could take a year. So even that journey is a whole journey in and of itself, too. So you guys deciding to have kids, it's at least going to be nine months, so it actually happens at.

The earliest. That's true. At the earliest. She's from National. Cheyenne, if you like country music, pull up a Golden Holdie by Diamond Rio called Meet in the Middle. The chorus is great. I'd start walking your way, you'd start walking mine. We'd meet in the middle, meet that old Georgia Pine. That's the theme. I mean, as silly as it sounds, that's the play. It's a great song, by the way, on top of that. But nonetheless, Sandra is in Boston, Massachusetts. Sandra, how can we help? Hello, Sandra. Sandra, going once, going twice. All right, we'll put her on hold. We'll see if we can figure that out.

But back to Cheyenne's-.

Yeah, that is really it. You got to meet in the middle on money discussions, children, a.

Lot of stuff. Okay, so here- Yes, and I've heard two different sides of this piece of advice. I'd be curious what you say. I've heard some people say compromise is the worst word because that means you both lose or somebody loses or whatever. Interesting. But I think I found them like, Yeah, but there's going to be times that when someone wants to do something, and I have to say, I don't want to, but selflessly, okay, I'm going to go. Then same on the other side, right? There's stuff that I want to do that he's like, Oh, geez, another vacation, whatever. He's like, Yeah. Okay, we'll do it. I'm like, Think like, there's give and take in marriage. There's not going to ever be this perfect formula.

That's well said. Whoever said that about compromises- What do you think? -probably bordering on the narcissistic side. I mean, you had to give something up. Yeah, you did.

It's called marriage.

Well, it's called, I'm going to sacrifice.

I'm.

Going to serve, which is a form of give. You said give and take. I don't think it's that harsh. I think it is. You know what? There have been times in our marriage. I'm sure you could say the same with you and Winston, where Stacey wanted something and there was no reason not to do it. I wasn't there yet, but there weren't any reasons not to other than I just wasn't as comfortable as she was. But I shared the value of, number one, her desire and the value of our relationship, and it worked out every time. That's good.

I shared the story at Money and marriage that I, the second kid, Winston was ready and I wasn't. We had three trips coming up and Zika was a thing. I was like, If I get pregnant, we can't go on these trips. He's like, Our life is dictating our schedule, or Our schedule is dictating our life. Our life needs to dictate our schedule. It ended up being this conversation about our priorities. And then Caroline came nine months later and we didn't go on the trips. That's right. That's a different story.

For a different day. That is. And she is as sweet as you think. Love, sweet Caroline. She really is. She's a doll. All right, good stuff. Thank you for the call. I love that. I love the young couples with big dreams and making progress, and that couple is an example. Don't move. More of your calls coming right up. This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome.

Back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by Rachel Cruz. We're thrilled that you are with us. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. I've got something in my hands, Rachel, that says, Ramsey Cyber Monday sale is extended. I mean, wow. All week. All week. You can get meaningful gifts for the family and friends as low as $7, financial peace universities at the lowest price of the year at only $60. 59. You can also get Junior's Adventure, Storytime collection, just $14.99 and so much more.

But your books are in the store, Ken.

My books are in the store. My kids need shoes. Don't forget that. We appreciate that. If you're looking to make a change in 2024 in your professional life to make more money or just get more meaning, you can just check out the Ken Coleman books, of course. But the Rachel Cruz wallet, I got to mention that black, camel, brown champagne, and the brand new Navy.

I know we came with a Navy.

Wow, that's pretty nice. I could get a Michigan block in on that.

Yes, you could. Get that first- I'm trying to hear you. -and then we'll see.

Yes, you could. The weeklong Cyber Monday sale is at ramsysolutions. Com/store. All right, Sandra, we're going to go back to Sandra in Boston, Massachusetts. Sandra, you're on The Ramsey show. Sandra. Hello? Hi, are you there?

Yes, I'm there.

You sound like you may be in a tunnel.

Oh, I'm right in front of.

The window.

Because I had to move position.

Can you put your phone up to your mouth?

Yes, it's right.

In.

My.

Mouth. Oh, it's in your mouth. That's why it sounds like you're in a cave. I want you to pull the phone out of your mouth and put it next to your mouth. All right, Sandra, we'll try this. Hold still. What's your question?

My question is I'm interested in purchasing a home. Right now, I live in an apartment. Purchasing a home, then the mortgage would be twice as much as my apartment. I live by myself. My child is grown. She's not with me. I wanted to know if it would.

Be a.

Good idea to purchase a home.

Sandra, do you... What do you make a month?

About $8,000.

$9,000 a month. Okay. And do you have any debt?

I have about $50, $45.

$50,000 in student loan. Okay. Do you have any savings? I have $50,000 in the bank. How much?

$50,000.

In the bank. $50,000? Yes. Great. Okay, so what I would do, Sandra, I don't think you're ready to buy a house right now. I would pay off your student loans today with your 50,000. I would bump up your savings back up to three to six months of expenses, and then take some time to save up a good down payment after that. And then you just want to make sure, even though it's going to be doubling a house payment versus the rent, it'll be double. If it works within the formula that it's no more than 25 % of your take home pay on a 15-year fixed rate, you're fine. You're fine. Just making sure that math works out. So I would not give you the green light today. I would pay off your student loans today, get an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses back up, and save for a good down payment anywhere from 5-20 %, and make sure the new house is no more than 25 % of your take-home pay. So if those are the parameters or, Sandra, you're great, but probably not today would I pull the.

Trigger on that. But I would consider a different cell phone plan. That might be our first purchase. Let's go to Grant in San Antonio, Texas. Grant, how can we help?

Hey, how's it going, guys? Good. So I am 24, and I just had a massive change in income in my life in the past six months. So I just wanted some advice on how to handle this properly. I was making about $60,000 a year. Then I got engaged and immediately got a new job right after that. So now I'm making around $140,000 to $180,000 a year.

On commission. Good for you.

Come on, Grant.

That's fantastic. Thank you, guys. Yeah. So I have no car payment. I have very minimal credit card debt because it's all expense at the end of the month for my company. My future wife, my fiancé, she has a car that probably has about $8,000 left to be paid off on it. She has about $3,000 to $4,000 worth of credit card debt that we're going to pay off pretty much immediately when we get married. My main question is I don't want my money sitting under a mattress. And as inflation and the dollar E evaluates, I don't want it to lose value. What would be the best place to put that money to work and grow substantially? By the time I'm 30 to 35, I want to have some kids and be very well off for myself.

Yeah. Well, it's a great question. What will she be making after you guys get married?

Right now, she's probably going to keep her job. She's right around $55,000 to $60,000 a year.

Okay, fantastic. I mean, you guys are going to be doing amazing. So I would... I think paying off all your debt, for sure, is the first priority in knowing why the credit card debt was there and all of that, fixing the symptom, not just the symptom, but the actual problem, too. Right. But as far as where to put your money, I would do, for sure, just an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. And you could put that in a high yield savings account or a money market account. That's more like insurance money than an investment. And then when you can look on to investing 15 % of your income into retirement. So we look at good mutual funds to go within that plan of a 401K or a Roth IRA. And then beyond that grants, you could always... Cds don't always keep up with inflation. But even just opening a Vancard account and putting some money in the S&P 500 is a plan that you could do as well. But I would always invest my money when I'm thinking long term, more than five years, and making sure what I'm investing in has a long track record.

And so for me, again, mutual funds, Vancard account, those kinds of things is where I feel the best putting my money. But any short term savings that you guys have, if you're saving to buy a house or something, again, it's just a good high yield savings account. Some of those percentages nowadays, the bad thing about everything going on with interest rates is if you have debt, it's a ding on you. But those of us that are saving, you're like, Oh, dang.

Six and a half %.

Right here. Doing pretty good. That's what I got. And high yield savings, isn't that amazing? Yeah. So all that's keeping up with inflation. So I wouldn't worry too much. I wouldn't park all my money in just a regular savings account or a CD for my whole life. But I think you'll do some investing and spread some of that money around. Is that helpful?

Yeah. No, it is. And really what we're looking at, too, is we're both set up in 401K. Her company matches four %. Mine matches six %. So we have it maxed out. So it's free money at the end of the day.

Sure.

Really, what we're looking at is right now we're in a two-bedroom apartment that's costing about 1,800 a month. We want to get into a house because we feel like we're just throwing this money down the drain every month. So we're looking at probably in the next five to four years purchasing our first home. I know FHA loan is, I think, three % down. So I'm trying to... This is all happening pretty quickly for me. So I want to take my time and do it the right way. For sure. I'm just trying to make sure that I'm making the right decision of where should I hold this money? What's at the house should I be looking at?

Things like that. Yeah. No, it's a great question. Yeah. So beyond the emergency funds, yes, saving for a down payment anywhere from five to 20 %. And I would just do a conventional 15-year fixed rate. And we always say for the payment to be no more than 25 % of your take home pay. So that'll give you some parameters as you guys are saving. But four to five years is great. You guys should be great. You should be in a good position for sure to buy a house. And I get the renting feeling of like, Oh, my gosh, we're throwing our money away. And that is right. I understand that feeling. But at the end of the day, too, you're buying time. And it's okay, because you will learn very quickly that homeownership is very expensive. When everything breaks and stuff happens, you're on the hook for it all. So it sounds very glamorous, and it's wonderful, right? Homeownership should be part of everyone's financial plan long term. But like you said, don't feel like you have to rush into this. I would be married. You guys get married, pay off this debt, get an emergency fund in place, or saving for a good down payment.

I would do at least five %. I wouldn't go lower than five.

Yeah. And, Grant, I would recommend you go to ramsysolutions. Com after the call and look up some SmartVester pros that are financially... They agree with the Ramsey Way and and they're going to help you with that investment strategy. They're going to create a custom plan for you. They're going to make sure that they share it with you in a way that you understand where you're making the decisions. Look up SmartvestorPro@ramseySolutions. Com. Pick two or three, meet with them. Go with the one that you feel the most comfortable with, Grant, but that's going to help you on your investment strategy, but you're going to be fine. In fact, you're just crushing it right now. Yeah, congratulations. I'm so excited for you. That's awesome. Congrats on the gig. All right, don't move. We got a couple of commercials coming your way, but Rachel Cruz and I, Ken Coma, will be back very soon on The Ramsey Show. Don't move. All right, guys, we got to face.

Some facts here. The holidays are right around the corner, and with the.

Holidays.

Comes more spending.

Listen, folks, if you don't go into this season with the budget, you're going to end up swiping your way into a huge mess by the time January rolls around. Don't make that mistake. Our budgeting tool, Every dollar, will help you make a plan for your spending now. Don't wait. Create your free.

Account at everydollar.

Com or download the app.

From the App Store today.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by Rachel Cruz. The phone number is 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. We're here to answer your questions. Let's go to Jason, who joins us now in Los Angeles, California. Jason, how can we help?

Hey, thanks for.

Taking my call. Sure. What's going on today, Jason?

I have a... Excuse me. I have a quinceyette that my daughter wants to plan. I don't know if you guys are familiar, but Kington, yeah, it's pretty much like a Sweet 16. I'm a bit of a pickle as to whether I could or if I could afford it, or should I do it?

How much is it going to cost?

I'm estimating between 10,000 and 15,000. Wow. Wow.

You got an itemized list on that?

No. Another detail on this is that I'm currently going through a divorce with her mother, and this is being planned by her, and these are their prices or her prices as far as what they found. I'm just trying to see. The problem is that I have just recently actually fully funded my six-month emergency fund, but that takes into account any support that I pay her, my ex-spouse. I don't know if technically I can dip into that, but it's an emergency fund, and this is not an emergency.

Yeah, not only that. You can't afford it. You're calling us to ask. The way that you're talking, we know you can't afford it. Am I right? You can't afford.

10-15 grand. They're expecting you. They're planning it, and then they're going to expect you to foot the whole bill?

Not foot the whole bill, foot half. She was asking for, at the beginning of all these talks, was half of 10, which is five. But I don't think that's realistic of what it would cost. If I save up until the point of when this is supposed to happen, I could probably save about 4,000.

Okay.

But.

I'm just.

Whether I should do this at this time in my life is this.

Big question. Jason, do you have any other debt, Jason? No, I don't have any debt. Or any debt? No debt. Okay, but you're a fully funded emergency fund. How much do you make a year?

Overtime has been good this year, so it's about 120.

120, okay. So here's my two things that I keep thinking as you're talking. Number one, how we define an emergency to actually dip into an emergency fund is when something is unexpected. So this doesn't really qualify because we know that she's going to be... Yeah, is it 16 years old or is it 15? It's 15. 15, yeah, okay. So we knew she was going to be turned 15. So it's not unexpected. Is it urgent? Do I have to do it right now? Yeah, I guess urgent would somewhat qualify because there's a date there. And is it necessary? So these are the two things. So honestly, this whole thing, it does not check off all those boxes for me. So no, it's technically not an emergency. So that's one part of the discussion. The second part is that you could bring together some money. And let's just say and pretend that it is 10,000. They want you to do five. You could say four. Could you take 1,000 out of the emergency fund to get to the five? Sure. You could, right? I mean, it's not the end of the world. But my biggest problem with all of that, though, Jason, is that just like weddings, just like another party, just like vacations, anything, if you don't keep a strict budget and have a limit to what you're going to spend, it gets more expensive.

I mean, a house. Even when you build a house, same thing. The line continues to move. So, Jason, if you decide to do this and to save the 4,000 for her, which I think would be great. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Okay, Ken's not that happy about it. If you do it, though, there has to be very clear communication and boundaries with your future ex-wife to say, And your daughter, I would bring her in on it and say, Guys, this is what's going on. Here's what I will have for you. This is it. This is all I can do in good conscious and in good faith at where I am in life. This is what I have. Work with that. And you set the tone. You set the amount on what you can do, Jason. Because if you tell them, Sure, I'll do half. It's going to go from 10, to 15, to 20, and there's going to be no boundaries. So- You have to set the boundary. Ken's dying.

Over here. I'm dying. I've agreed with everything Rachel said. I just want to say this. I'm going to answer this as if I was in your shoes. I don't know if there's any special features to this party, so I'm completely ignorant. But if my daughter, Josie, who, by the way, turns 15 tomorrow, if she came to me and said, I want a big party and I've got a budget. I think it's going to be 10. I would ask for an itemized list. There's no way I'm even going to give four or five, six without seeing where are the specific. Where in the world is 10 grand going for a party for a bunch of 15-year-olds? I know, it's true. I'm starting there. I would say that everything Rachel said is absolutely right. You give your number after they give you numbers. You don't just get, Well, it's going to be 10, maybe 12, maybe 15. You give half. You have to ask for specifics and have a real conversation with her daughter. You're in a very tough situation now with the divorce, and now she's got to-.

Don't let the guilt right over.

That, Jason. I say, Baby, here's the deal. Give me your budget. What do you want for your party? Let's just walk through it. Let's teach her. This is a teaching moment to go, Yeah, I'd like to drive a Lamborghini, but I can't. I know you want a $10,000 party, but guess what? Me and mom can't do a $10,000 party, but we can make it an amazing party. This is how much money I can give towards an amazing party. I think that's the conversation... Well, it's not I think. That's exactly how I would talk it over with my daughter, Josie. I'd get her wish list, get real numbers. Then how can I meet her expectations in a much more budget-conscious way? I think that's where you start. It takes the pressure off because now you're dealing in reality. Then you go, Look, babe, this is what I can do.

Yeah, and this stuff, Jason, and I know it's such a cultural part, right? I can see it. I know that it is. I know, and I know we had a guy call, I think he was from India, in the wedding that he wanted to spend half a million dollars. I totally am aware that there are certain things culturally that the expectation is really big.

But culture should never outrule.

Common sense. But that's it, too. You could say that about the American culture, weddings or whatever. You could plug in other things. It's ridiculous. There's going to be multiple areas, Jason, within you that you're going to have to be like, This doesn't feel right. It's not what I wanted. But part of being a grown-up to Jason is looking at the numbers, what Ken's saying, and it's like, Here's the reality. Here's the reality of what I have and what I have, and what I can do.

And Coming back to you, Jason, you have a real number in your head that you feel like I can't afford. You feel like a guy who's in control of his money situation, you sound really stable. What's the number that you go, if I set it on fire for my daughter, it wouldn't bother me, it wouldn't give me a Maylox moment? What is that number?

Well, right now, the big thing that is heavy on me is that I haven't even gotten into my investing portion of my life for the future.

I get that, but you didn't answer my question. What's the number that if you know, I can give this money to my daughter and I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

As of now, I would say maybe for something like this, $3,000.

Okay. Then now we've got a starting number. I'm trying to coach you through this practically. You got a number where you go, I know you don't want to spend any money because you think you're behind. You're not. You're going to be fine on your investing. You got to weather this divorce. You got to figure out what the payments are going to be and all that, and you're going to restart, okay? But you're okay. But if the number is 3,000, where you go, That's my baby girl. She wants this. I can give her three grand. Then let's start with that, then go get the itemized list, and let's see if we can get closer to it. That's what I'm trying to do, is get you to a point where you don't let guilt run the day and make a bad financial decision. I think the 3,000 is a common sense number. Would you agree?

I would say so, yeah.

All right. Your ex-wife is not going to like it. Yeah. So prep for that. Your daughter may not like it.

But she don't like you right now anyway. So we're not losing.

That deal.

I'm not trying to be insensitive. I'm just keeping it real. What are you going to do? Make her not want to be married to you more? I mean, we've already crossed that bridge. So you got to stick to your guns, man, and get the itemized list. I'll work for you, Jason. Yeah, Jason, you're a good man. You're going to be fine. It's going to be a great party. Rachel, by the way, will come do a dance or something. I'll come party. Send that request. 15-year-old girls. That'll be great. You'll tell the story. This is The Ramsey. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people win in their life, their money, their work, and their relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me. Triple-8-25-5-2-25 is the phone number. Triple-885-5225. Rachel will take your money questions. I'll chime in. If you've got any work-related questions, just feeling stuck. Maybe you want to make more money in 2024, you want to start a business, those kinds of questions, they're all related, and Rachel has got some great input on those as well. Hey, we're going to take your calls. We'd love to hear from you.

Leslie is going to start us off this hour in Birmingham, Alabama. Leslie, how can we help?

Hi. Yes. I'm really just struggling about what to put my focus on right now. I am trying to work through the baby steps or at least develop a game plan. But right now, I'm really not sure how to really start before I can solve my income problem. I have ADHD, and I know it's very common, but I guess it's just a big problem for me specifically. I've never struggled before the job was active, but professional jobs are usually desk jobs. I got a Master's in accounting. I got a really good job right now, but I'm failing at it because my productivity is so low because of the ADHD, I guess. It just takes me about twice as long as everyone else. The two jobs that I had before this that were desk jobs were similar.

Tell me, before we go any further, this is good. Was there a time when you had a job that was not desk related that you were highly engaged and you didn't have a productivity issue?

Yes.

Tell me about it.

Well, honestly, it was just restaurant jobs and things like that. But I've always been promoted in those jobs. They said I did a really great job. That tells me I'm not lazy. It's just something.

Else going on. Let me address this. I have been diagnosed by an actual psychiatrist. I have ADHD. I'm high functioning, so I've never needed medication. But it does trip me up in a lot of ways, and Rachel could tell stories and my poor wife. It is a challenge. But let me just say this in general about ADHD, because I've done a lot of reading about it. Adhd can be hyperfocused when you're doing something that you really enjoy. The ADHD person, everybody, by the way, is engaged in something they enjoy, something that they're good at doing. But you take an ADHD person and put them in a place of skill and challenge, watch out. You're absolutely not lazy. This is the income side of things. It may not be waitressing, but you have got to figure out what is the work that I really enjoy doing? I'm not going to try to unpack all of this right now, but I'm just going to lay this out for you. I think there's four types of work. Every job in the world can be put into four buckets: people work, process work, idea work, and let's call it objects or things.

That would be working with your hands, building, creating, whatever. Does that make sense? Those four areas in general? Yes, for sure. Okay, great. This is to take the pressure off. What area do you think that you would really enjoy because of the the result and your talented? Is it people work, process work, idea work, or maybe object or things? What would you say?

Let's see. I guess I'm more drawn to process or ideas. Honestly, ideas the most, but I don't see how that could be an active job.

Well, don't worry about that. I've coached a lot of people on this. Let's just have some fun. If you knew you couldn't fail and we paid you the amount of money, that would be really nice. You've got an idea in your head. What would you try in that idea space? Because I think you're highly creative. What would you try?

Sure. I guess I would honestly probably get into health coaching. I really love nutrition and all that, but I just feel like it's just such a risky venture. I have a four-year-old son and a single mom, and so I can't do anything risky.

Yeah, totally got it. But we're not talking risk right now, we're talking your future. So here's what I would tell you. I think you're a people person because you really enjoyed... You said you were on your feet, but you were weighting tables. The idea of being a nutrition or health coach is highly people and highly process. Okay. Yeah. You have a heart for helping people, don't you? You enjoy stepping in and giving people maybe a light bulb moment, yes or no? Yes. All right. Now here's what I want you to do. Well, I want to talk to your money, don't race, you're walking through your money situation. But I'm going to give you a couple of tools. At the end of the phone call, I'm going to give you the get clear assessment. I want you to take it 15 minutes. It's really going to validate what you're feeling. I'm going to give you the book that goes with it, From Paycheck to purpose. How do we actually get there to where that's not risky as a single mom with a four-year-old? Those are my gifts. Christian, I know you're listening at the end of the call.

If we need to schedule a call for Leslie to come on my show where we can go deeper, we'll do that. How's that? Does that sound good, Leslie?

Yes, sir. That is amazing. I actually wanted to take that assessment.

Thank you so much. Well, it's my gift to you because I think you're closer than you realize. Last point on this, I think that there's a very clear path to where you get qualified. You may have to be patient to get to a point where we cashflow the qualification, but that you can get a pretty good job in the health, nutrition, physical coaching space. I think it's wide open for somebody like you to do pretty well. But I want Rachel to jump in on your finances right now because part of making this step forward towards this work is getting yourself financially stable to pay for the qualification.

That's right, for sure. So, Leslie, how much debt do you have?

I have 100K.

100,000.

Yes, 75K in student loans. And this is going to seem almost to the critical, but I have $25,000 in debt because of health stuff. Because my son has some health issues. And I've just been... I felt like I knew how to help him, but I overspent on those areas by buying really good food and things like that. But coming to my senses, I'm just trying to get out of the hole. So $25,000 in credit card debt.

So it's credit cards, but attributed to health situations.

Yes. And then there's 75K.

For the student loan. Student loan. Okay, perfect. And how much are you making in your current job?

My current job is 70K, which I'm really grateful for. But like I said, I don't feel like I have a lot of job.

Security right now. Well, let me jump in really fast on this. You have got to switch your mindset. I know the ADHD is real, but you cannot go backwards right now. You either replace this job with another $70,000 job that you can focus or you overcome this. You figure this out because you can. But you have to focus. You're a mama bear and that little boy and getting out of debt matters. You got to have this income. So fix it.

I know you can. Yeah, and you're in a great... I know the actual career path is not your favorite as an accountant, but that's a great, stable degree to have and skill set to have that people need that. So you can plug in and do that. And Leslie, and I would even say, which is just exhausting, but if there's any way to get some level of more traction income wise, to give you a level of confidence. So even if it's doing admin work for another company eight hours a week, or be a virtual assistant for six hours a week for someone, if you can find another level of supplemental income to attack because there's $100,000 and $25,000 in credit card debt. Any amount of income that you have that can be thrown at that obviously is going to be great. And the health stuff with the $25,000 and I think that as a mom, we do. We want to help our kids. And when health stuff comes in the picture, it's very scary. But I want you to be very discerning, have people around you speaking into these decisions so you don't go deeper in that hole.

You're awesome. You can do this, Mama Bear. We believe in you. This is The Ramsey Show. Our Cyber Monday deals are ending this week, which means it's your last chance to get meaningful gifts for as low as seven bucks. Need a last-minute gift that doesn't scream last minute? Well, pick up an audiobook for just seven dollars, or get the Ladies in Your Life, the Rachel Cruz Wallet in limited edition Navy today and have it delivered just in time for Christmas. There's something for everyone on your list, but you got to hurry because deals end this week. So shop the Cyber Monday sale at Ramseysolutions. Com/store. That's ramsysolutions. Com/store. Welcome back, America. You've joined the conversation here on The Ramsey Show, a conversation about your life, your money, your work, your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me. I got to say this, it's always fun. One of the neat things about doing the show at our world headquarters here just south of Nashville is we have an awesome lobby, and we tell you to come watch the show. Great group of people the entire time. What are you laughing at? James is laughing at me.

Rachel started laughing first. World headquarters is right up there with Toll Free. It's right up there. It's a little dramatic.

I'm melodramatic. Our international headquarters.

I didn't say that. I said world headquarters. By the way, am I wrong? It is true. It's factually correct. Thank you very much. Listen, I'm given to exaggeration. This is just let it go. You guys act as though I've never exaggerated before. So shocking. It was such a good opening to the show. I was about ready to talk about the nice people in the lobby, and Rachel and James are making fun of me. I'm going to suck my thumb after the show. It's not good. I'm going to be in a therapy chair over this.

I hope you are enjoying our world headquarters here at Ramsey Solutions.

Well, back to what I was saying. Look at these people. There they are. If you come to our world headquarters, there's a lobby, as you might expect at our world headquarters. You would think you'd have a decent lobby and we have free drinks, free food. There you go, Mrs. Smarty pants. I love it. I know, I do, too. By the way, she was telling me on a break, James, that sometimes people go in the comments on YouTube and say they don't think Rachel and me get along or George and me. It doesn't matter who the.

Duet is. They diagnose our friendships like, Oh, you can tell. Rachel and Ken. No, if.

You can't tell that Rachel and Ken really.

Don't aren't really friends.

If you can't tell that Rachel and Ken like each other- You are not very aware. You lack discernment. We're having a lot of fun right now. She's not being mean to me at all. Now, James is, but that's a different deal. All right, let's go to Tyler in Flint, Michigan. Tyler, how can we help?

Hey there. I have a question. I listen to you guys a lot. You guys don't like whole life insurance.

Oh, thank you.

Three years ago, I got into it. I thought it was a good investment. I paid $75 a month for $175-$215 a month, whole life insurance. I thought it was a good investment because when I retired in 25 years, I'd have that little tump of money that I could utilize and I'd only be, I think it's just under $15,000 into it. And I could utilize that whole life insurance per se on my property or something like that, and then leave a little remainder in case. But I guess you guys are against it. And I'm wondering what I should do instead of that. Should I do a different insurance or go into a high index?

Yeah, I would tell her. My biggest reason with whole life insurance that I hate is mixing your investments and your insurance and the rate of return in these policies is terrible versus if you went and just opened up your own mutual fund or vansard account and did an S&P 500 index fund, you could make so much more money, so much more money out in the market versus it being stuck in this whole life policy. So what I would do is I would go to Zander insurance. This is where my husband and I get our insurance because they're the best. They shop multiple policies, not just one company, and get a term life policy. And anywhere from 10-12 times your annual income, and it's going to be cheap. You're going to fund it annually or quarterly, however you set up the payments, and then look at investing at a completely separate way, right? So investing 15 % of your income into retirement after you have paid off all of your debt and have an emergency fund in place and those kinds of things. So investing in insurance should never go together. When they start going together, you're getting a bad deal because you could just do so much more with your investment out in the marketplace.

Okay, that's what I've been understanding with you guys every day.

On my way home. Yeah, but I will say keeping life insurance, because I'm assuming you have a family and kids that depend on your income, right? Yeah. Yeah. So before you cancel your whole life, make sure to go ahead and get the term life in place and then cancel your whole life because God forbid you cancel the whole life and something happens and you don't have policy in place. So make sure you do that. But yeah, just go to Zandor Insurance. And that's what Winston and I do. And it's so in it. I can't remember what we pay. It's so inexpensive.

Yeah, I'm so insured that I don't sleep well at night because I think Stacey might...

I.

Don't have a good attitude.

That day. A lifetime movie action can go missing.

It's true. And I'm gone. And the kids are loving life.

Man, this is one sector of money that George Camel, if he was walking by right now, we'd wave him in because he would rant and rant on the stuff because it is part of this product. This financial product is really what it is that they sell, it's all over Instagram Reels and TikTok and financial advice. And people are like, Well, you can actually use your life insurance while you're alive. That's what rich people... It's all this gimmicky stuff, you guys. And at the end of the day, it's not good for your money. I'm like.

It doesn't. Just look at the annual return of those mutual funds and how they performed over a lifetime. Just do your own homework on it and then compare to the numbers they're going to give you. Just on the numbers alone, it's just.

Not even close. And, Winston, I did this because we had a friend. This was years ago, and their grandfather set them up with a whole life, which is, again, great intention, for 18 years, got the policy. And if he had invested that just in a mutual.

Fund- Oh, it's make.

Your stomach- It does. I mean, it really does.

Just do your own homework and look at the numbers, folks. This is not our opinion. These are facts. Let's go to Sebastian who joins us. By the way, I think Sebastian's a.

Great- Fantastic name.

If my name were Sebastian Coleman, I'd be a big deal. I think so. I really do. Sebastian is on the line in Phoenix. Sebastian, how can we.

Oh, my God. Hey, thank you. What's it called? My question is, I have, I guess, like a month gap until January to, I guess, move out to my friend's house.

Move out from where?

My mom and dad's house.

Oh, they're kicking you out?

No. My friends have an open room, and they're only giving me a month gap to decide if I want to move out or not. But I already know my mom and dad don't like them because they smoke. So I'm just trying to think what's probably the best way to approach trying to tell them that I want to move out to their house, per se.

Yeah. How old are you, Sebastian? 22. Okay. Do you have a job?

Yeah, I work at the.

Post office. Okay. How much do you make a year?

After tax, 40K.

Okay. Can you support yourself fully or you depended upon them financially?

No. For sure, I could depend on myself.

And all of myself. Well, your mom and dad don't get a vote. They don't get an actual vote here. Now, I would.

- Be wise. They probably have some wisdom in life.

If they're - Are these guys smoking? Is this a bigger problem than just what they're smoking?

I mean, Not really. That's the only reason why they just don't want me to move out with them. The rent's cheap. It's only only a month. I don't know.

Yeah, I think it's one of these things, Sebastian, you have to decide is this the house? Honestly, and I don't even want to ask on air- Why? I do. Do. Going to to because if it's cigarette smoke and they're they're smoking, then how does it smell? Isn't isn't I I I'm just saying the smell smell of I don't want to live in a house where people.

People Are they smoking the weed in the house? That's the the million question. Yeah. Dude, is that where you want to live? Let me ask you this way. Personally, I'm going to give you a multiple choice. Do you want to live with these guys who are smoking weed in the house and whatever else comes with that behavior for $600 a month because it's a great deal? Or do you want to just get out on your own and get away from mom and dad because you're 22-year-old grown, you know what? You're a man. So what do you want more? A or B? I guess B.

B.

Yeah. Then do that. You're acting like that's the only option. Living with a bunch of pot smokers is your only option.

Yeah, true.

I know. You've got a false narrative here like, This is my only option. Option. At home with mom and and dad. Live with these guys.

Yeah, at some other options.

Options. Make decent decent money, do your homework. Okay. You can find an apartment between now and January first.

And get a roommate. Find a roommate or two.

Yeah.

That ideally don't smoke.

My bad. But the only reason why I'm not really too concerned on if I don't move out with them until January is just my mom and dad don't charge me even the rent.

Yeah, but you're a grown man. You're a 22-year-old man with a job. You need to be out on.

Your own. Seriously, bro. Come on. You got to get out. You're a grown man. Act like it. It's going to be wonderful. You're going to be fine. Mom and dad are there. They're a speed dial away. Don't move in with these guys. Whoever these guys. Speed dial.

Dial. Worldwide headquarters.

Headquarters. Did I do It's a toll-free number. Get a toll-free number for your mom.

It's on my speed dial.

Hey, send them a fax. This is The Ramsey Show. All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged.

About.

Crazy house.

Prices and interest interest rates, when you have the right.

Real estate agent to help you buy and.

Sell the right way, you'll have confidence to.

Make smart decisions.

Ramsey-trusted.

Agents.

Aren't just experts who guide you.

Through buying or selling. They're someone you can trust to have your back from the.

First call to closing day. Find a.

Ramsey-trusted agent.

Near you.

At.

Ramseysolutions. Com/agent.

Ramseysolutions.

Com/agent. Welcome back to.

The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me. We're here for you, triple-888255, 225, taking your your questions, your work questions. Let's go to Molly now in San Antonio, Texas. Molly, how can we help? Hey, Ken.

Hey, Rachel. Hi.

Good to talk to you. Good to talk to you. What's going on?

Well, about a year and a half ago, we put our kids into private school. I'm sorry, I'm a little bit nervous.

You're doing great.

My My husband a real estate agent. We've had a slow couple of months, I guess. Probably Probably September, we haven't had a closing. I make about $110,000 a year, and private school bill is starting to become a bit daunting. Not really sure if we can cover it anymore. So I wanted to talk to somebody.

That's.

Stressful. How old are your kids?

Kids? Nine, and and nine twins.

Okay. Is that third, fifth grade, sixth grade?

Yeah, fourth, fourth, and sixth. Okay. Yep. Yep. Okay.

How much is the school? Because three kids, three tuitions. I know in Nashville Nashville it's...

Yeah, it comes to be about 27, total. Okay. Seven thousand per year.

Okay, for all three? Yeah. Okay. Okay. And It's in.

The dental, but that's usually what it.

Comes out to. Sure. Okay. And have you guys paid for the rest of the school year already? Did you do anything upfront or you pay month to month? How does that work?

It's a month. It goes into the summer as well.

Okay. And your husband is doing real estate. It didn't have a closing in September, so you're feeling the pinch of that. Does he have things coming up? How is his forecast looking with his pipeline?

Yeah, there's some stuff down the road, probably not until April or June. But obviously, he's really trying.

Trying.

Sure. We've an emergency fund. Most of it is tied up in equities, which are in the red. So I'm a little afraid.

To tell you all that. What do you mean your emergency fund is tied up in equities? It's tied up in a house?

Oh, no, I'm sorry. Securities. Investment.

Your emergency fund is?

Yeah, most of of in mutual funds, but we do have a bit of it in stock. Okay.

Molly, I think part of feeling secure is that there is money there regardless of what the economy is doing, right? That's why we always say to have three to six months of expenses in just a high yield savings or a money market account, something that's not invested because we say it's not an investment. So for you and your husband tonight, this weekend, I would really have the conversation of, hey, what would it look like just to get some cash to the side that's secure, regardless of what the market up and and it's there. That may give a level of peace, and I understand it's in the red and all that. You have to look at it. But But that's step I would make. Do you guys have any debt?

No, other than the mortgage, we don't.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. I I think it's just one of these conversations. Molly, you guys have to figure out if he's not bringing in an income right now, is there anything else he can be doing on the side to make some money? How much is private school valued to you guys? Is it a big value? Because some people will sacrifice other parts of their their They won't go on vacation. They won't do certain things in order to provide private school for their kids because of where they live, or religious convictions, or learning situations, or whatever it may be. So I think it's a very personal choice. But But we can't go into the red in your budget month to month either, right? So there is common sense that has to play in. And is the amount of stress that's on you guys worth it for the private school? Absolutely, yeah. What is the reasons for the the private school? I ask?

Sure. We're district in some some schools in daughter's middle school was the one that really worried me. So we thought we could just bring her. But then we figured out with all the driving and everything, we're just like, let's just put all three in. In. At some point, we knew that the twins would have to go to that middle school as well.

So we we.

Weren't content.

Okay. So your local school is not great. So So you're for for Okay, perfect. Perfect. It's good to know. Know. Molly, it's one of those things. If you guys can't pay it, if you can't afford it, then you can't afford it. Understood. But also the $110,000 of just you bringing in that money, which is great money. So if he is not doing closings, I would say he needs to be bringing in some income.

That's where I was going to go, Molly. I don't want to be insensitive, but if he doesn't have a lot of listings, and and read something this morning that housing sales are as low as they've been in quite some time. Almost two decades. If he doesn't have prospects, he's got time, yes or no?

Yeah.

Then he needs to be working. What is that number? You may have given it to Rachel. What is the number that would cover just the private school? What's that monthly number?

I think it came out to about about a month.

Okay. If I were him, if I were in your shoes and you really wanted those kids there, and I knew knew that was in a cycle right right now, going to cycle cycle back, I would be making more than than a month. I would be making enough to take care of the private private to keep the kids in the school. Even if I got to work a side job, I'm doing whatever it takes to keep him in there. There.

It may a career shift, Molly. How long has he been a real estate agent for?

Well, he's had his license for a while, but he went full-time realtor about a year and a half ago, about two years ago almost. There's still some options on the the back that we could fall back on. It was more of the income potential is really what keeps us going. There could be a great month, there could just.

Be a lot of stuff. Yeah, I don't think he walks away. I think he gets innovative right now. Innovation is when we don't have a lot of resources and we got to come up with something, and I think he can come up with the the I would not touch the emergency fund. This is not an emergency at all. Even if you had to tell the school, Hey, look, here's our situation. Give us one one month and then we'll pick up the payments. There's things that can be done here if it's that close. Handle this like an adult and go, if you got to communicate to the school a little bit on this, but he needs to go make the $1300. Somebody does.

Makes sense.

I wish I had some grand strategy, but that's what it boils down to. While the real estate economy is tight right now, there's other ways that he can make money in San Antonio, Texas, and easily come up with that amount. That's if, all caps, if we really want to keep those kids in the school where there's a will, there's a a is the old saying, and I think that's true. Yeah.

Yes.

Sir. Trust your.

Gut, gut, It's hard, though. I know, Molly. The tension is there because I'm like, Oh, my gosh, he hasn't had a closing. Money is not coming in. It's depended upon you. There's a level of that pressure on your shoulders, Molly. Right. But you're probably feeling too, and you don't want to take your kids out of the school. There's so many dynamics here. But $1300 a month is doable, right?

It's very doable. If I know that I'm making this money on the side just to keep my kids in a private school and out of a bad school school I like the chances of a mom and dad who are willing to come together and go, How do we come up with $1300? Yeah. Yeah.

That's part of, we talk about your budget and life decisions that you make make and everything, the part of like, we're adults. Everyone gets to decide what you want your life structure, right? And where this family says, Yeah, we're going to take on extra work to keep our kids in a private school. That's what they're choosing. You talk to people and they have a one-income family because the mom, they're choosing for her to be home homeschooling the kids. And that's what they're choosing. You have two people, careers, and they're doing that. It is so much about choices and the values of the individuals and the families. And that always gives me a level of of peace. Where do have some black and and white things here at Ramsey. We do say you need to be on a budget, all these things are helpful. But the details of how you live out your life and your money, it's up to you. You get to decide. There's hundreds of different options of which track you want to take in life, and you get to decide that. If Molly and them, that's what they want, they're adults and they get to decide that.

Now you have to figure out, Okay, how are we going to make this work? Then you got to make some adult decisions around that.

Yeah, You guys are going to figure it out, Molly. It's going to be okay. It's going to cycle through. Do what's best for you guys. Do whatever it takes to do what's best for the family we know you will. Thank you so much for the call. All right, she's Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Coleman. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. Don't move. More coming up. Thank you for joining us here on The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me. We're thrilled that you're with us. Us. Is the phone number. Our scripture of the the day from Galatians Galatians Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ. Our quote today from Jordan Peterson, compare yourself to who you were were not to who someone else is today. There you go. You talk a lot about comparison. Feels like that's right up your alley.

Yeah, it's a good quote.

There you go. Let's go to Ivy now in Baton Rouge. Ivy, how can we help you?

Hello. Hey, thank you all for having me.

You bet. How can we help?

Yes, I wanted if you can help me settle a debate between me and my wife.

Oh, my favorite thing to do is get in the middle of a marriage debate. Debate. This is.

Our I bet you all are. Okay, well, we both found our dream home, which is about an hour away from where we currently live. We have some rental properties and our home that we live in. I want to liquidate everything and pay for this new house cash that we will be debt-free, totally debt-free, except for a car note, maybe, and then take the extra money that we will have and maybe do investments where we're going to live at next. Is that making sense? Yeah, it does. She wants to keep the two mental properties because she thinks that the extra income every month is going to help us down the way.

Okay. Have you run the numbers to where you take her theory and we get it out on paper and we go, Okay, if we keep this, this is this extra revenue, and you look at her financial financial and then you look at yours. Have you run those numbers side by side?

Yes, sir. She still wants to keep the the income.

Because yours is clearly better. Your option is better on paper.

Yeah, the rental income equals out to about $2,700 a month. But all we're doing with that money right now is taking that money, putting it down on our mortgage so the mortgage company can take the interest and they make money money off of I don't want to keep that money.

For ourselves. Right, right.

I'm with you.

How far will you guys move from the rental properties?

It's about an hour away, a little bit over an hour or so. I mean, it's doable to keep those properties there and still maintain them. Now we both have full-time jobs also. So it would be a little difficult to go get rent.

If the property is leaking. Leaking. What's her reasoning for wanting to keep them? Is it just the rental income or is there something that she loves real real estate? Found the the I don't know. Is there any main reason?

She thinks that the extra $2,700 a month trumps everything coming in. I said, well, if everything we own is paid for, we won't need the $2,700 a month coming in. We We have $2,700 a month of our own money to put extra investments and do whatever we want.

Yeah, because what would the mortgage be on the new house, the dream house if you were to take out a mortgage?

Yeah, the mortgage on on the Dream She does want to liquidate our home that we live in in now. We bought well, and we bought lower, and we're going to sell pretty pretty high. We'll make a good amount of money off of it. But the note would still be anywhere from from 2,000 a month on the new place.

Right, so it's a wash in just that regard.

Yes.

Is she putting her foot down saying, Sorry, pal, it's my decision, or are we still discussing this back and forth? How tension-filled is this?

They say marriage is 50-50, but I don't believe that. It's usually one person that gives more and that person is me, and I love that. I'm not angry or mad about it at all. We have a real good relationship. We work real hard to get where we at, and I think this is a good problem to have. But we're leaning more towards now. We're still discussing it because it ain't all went through yet. We're still discussing it, but we're leaning more towards keeping the rental properties and just taking the from the house we live in now, putting it down on the new house and paying the $2,200 a month.

How much do you have left on the rental properties? How much do you owe on them?

One of the rental properties is completely paid for. It's worth about 150 grand. The other rental property, we only owe like 33,000 on it, and it's worth about 225, 250.

Okay, why don't you sell one of them? Why don't you sell the one that you still have a.

Payment on? Because she wants them both.

Yeah, she wants.

Them both.

You didn't answer my question.

Is there tension over this, or is she open-minded?

No, it's not tension, but I don't think it's going to go my way.

I can tell you right now, it's not going to go your way. But you know what? This is tough, man. Are you sure you won't resent her over this? Because there's a good chance that she gets tired of being a long-distance landlord.

Yeah. Well, no, I won't resent her over it because nothing matters to me but her happiness. That's truth. That's not me just saying that because I'm on a radio.

Then why did you call us and ask us to take sides?

I'm not trying to take sides. I might be coming back with a little bit of an argument towards her just to say, Hey, look, I called called her in to and they said this would be a better idea to do it this way.

It is a better idea, and I think you showed her that. But I don't think that this is enough of a a compelling for her to come off of her position.

Yeah, because I mean, and also, Ivy, how much do you make a year? How much I make a year? Yeah. Are you guys together, household income?

Oh, household. I'll make about $110, $15 a year. She makes $150 a year. So she is the breadwinner of the family.

Okay. And how much can you sell your current home for? How much will you walk away with?

We can walk away with about about Okay.

And the dream home costs how much?

Much?

Oh, well, your fine.

Okay.

So- If she wants to keep the houses, keep the houses.

Because you only owe $33,000 on the second rental. Yes, definitely. Yeah, you're not far off on a mortgage. Take out a small mortgage on the dream home, pay off the dang car. You said you had a car loan. Pay that off today, Ivy. You need to pay that off. Work to pay off this rental property. You have two paid-for rental properties, and then attack your primary mortgage.

Yeah, I didn't think of that... This isn't really one way that I like your plan a little bit more, but- I do, too. Too. But guys are in great financial position. If you do what Rachel says, you put a huge.

Down payment. Do you have any savings?

Oh, yeah, we got $16,000 in savings right now, and then I have a a with close to a million dollars in it.

Oh, for heaven's sakes. We'll keep the safe- Absolutely do what makes her happy, Ivy.

Keep the $16,000 as your emergency funds. Pay off the car. That needs to be your next step. Yeah, you can take the small mortgage on the dream home. Pay off.

That second house. Pay off the second second Now you guys have.

Got real estate. And then use the 2,700 from her point to help pay off the new house sooner.

Yeah.

I'm going to change my my rulingI Ivy. Ivy.

-i know that the interest we would be I know.

I'm changing my ruling.

If I were you, Ivy, I would do your way. Way. Winston, I did that. We had two rental properties we sold in order to build the house that we're in now. That's what we chose to do because we we not living with debt. So that was a hard line in the sand for us. But you guys mathematically, it's not crazy off. You can do this. This.

No, Happy wife, happy.

Life is. That's my vote.

I I guess. But also- I feel.

Like, yeah. We've already I just don't think he's going to... We've already asked. I don't think he's going to move her off the position at all. And they're in such good financial position, it's not worth fighting over. Right. Right. She may get tired. The question is, is who's going to get more tired of the the distance between the new home and these these homes? That's a pain in the the being a landlord. But you got options.

I didn't want to stop. We flipped houses in the past. We were very handy. We do a lot of work on our own homes and stuff like that. I wanted to start all over again where we at, take the extra money we have left, buy some little houses over here, and keep keep doing.

Does she do any of the work on these houses? You said we we are.

In She's right next to me. No, she's right next to me every time we do something.

This is the passive-aggressive play, but you can have her go and fix fix some of things the first couple of months your way and see if she likes driving an hour to fix it. It's your only shot, man. It's your.

Only.

Shot. I'm keeping it real, man. I've been married 25 years. I'm with you. You got to go with the woman on this one.

I just hate that phrase.

Why do you hate that? You benefit from it. What's your problem? Because it's a.

Little bit like, I'm going to just be be the run over the... I'm just going to be and she's going to take over. I don't know.

I think you're reading reading that. Give a little little like- think happy wife, happy life is very positive. It doesn't say, I'm a beat down, broken man. I know.

That's been said so many times on on show today by multiple men. Happy wife, happy life.

Say it again. I think it's true. I think Winston would say it too. We'll discuss it. We'll discuss it it here, folks. We'll see. She's Rachel Cruz. I'm Ken Coleman. Big thanks to our captain, old captain, my captain, James Childs. This is The Ramsey Show. If you're a leader, your personal growth matters for your organization because whatever you lead can only grow as much as you do. I know from experience. I've been CEO of Ramsey Solutions for over 30 years, and now I'm sharing that leadership and business coaching experience with you on The Entree Leadership Podcast. I'm taking your calls and helping you figure out.

How to overcome challenges within your organization.

One episode could change your business.

Check it out on.

Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or on the Ramsey.

Network app.