Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose. He is our guy that helps you develop in your whole area of your work, where you can be a better person and make more money. He's here helping us today. So you got questions about jobs, careers, all that junk? Well, hey, we're ready. We'll even talk to you about whatever it is you want to talk about. That's what we're here for. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Mindy is in beautiful Portland, Maine, to start off this hour. Love your city. Mindy, how are you?

I'm well. How are you?

Better than I deserve. Serious. Just walk down to the dock and get some fresh lobster anytime you dad-gum want. No kidding.

It's amazing.

How can How can we help today?

My husband is a firefighter and I'm young, but actually can retire at this time. He's not going to be 50 until this summer, but he had put his time in. So they are starting a program at the fire station where it's a retire, rehire. So he'll stay basically doing his job, but he'll to get his pension plus his salary. In talking to him, we've been working the baby steps for the last, oh gosh, almost 10 years, I guess, and we are debt free. And he's saying he wants to put his It pensions straight into retirement, but we still have a hundred and twelve thousand on the house, so we still have a mortgage. And so I wanted to talk to you about, is that really the right place? And The other background, I just think that's important to know is I have a chronic heart condition, so I'm in my mid-forties. I was born with it, and it's something that I probably won't be able to really work for a long, long time. I'm not eligible for term life insurance because of it. And about a year and a half ago, I had a big medical event, and it really made me weigh my life of I want to more before I can't.

I'm hoping in the next five years, maybe 10, that our mortgage will be gone and I'll be able to go down in hours of my job. I do love my job, so that's not it.

No, it's just a matter of the strain. Well, good question. You sound like you've been listening a little bit, and you know some of the things we talk about, but not the whole thing, based on what you're saying.

I think I do, but I think he's off on this one.

Well, he's off because you know the answer then. You're setting him up for a fall because you know the answer. The answer is we're going to tell you to work the baby steps. It sounds like you're debt free with an emergency fund not counting your house, right? That is correct, yeah. Which puts you at baby steps four, five, and six, and you're putting 15% away for retirement already of your household income? Yes, we are, both of us. Okay, if your income goes up because of retire, rehire, then you would raise the 15% up to be 15% of your new income, but you would not put his entire new retirement, back into retirement, we would continue with Baby Steps 4, 5, 6. Kids grown and gone, do you need to save anything for kids' college?

No, we have an 11-year-old, so we are working on that as well.

Okay, so kids college needs to be addressed. And beyond that, we pay on the house, which is your goal. So you already knew you won the argument with us.

Yeah, but you know what? I didn't actually think of it as a new income because I was just thinking it very separate. So this is That's actually really helpful.

No, he got a raise. Yeah. That's all it is. I mean, he goes out on retirement, he starts getting his retirement, and he goes back to work for the same pay because they need help. That's why they're doing this. They don't want him to leave. They're short of help, right?

That's correct. Yeah, it's really hard to find- They're afraid he's just going to retire and not come back.

They need him, so they're allowing him to retire and then come back. That's a very cool thing for you all because dadgum, that's probably a sweet income.

Mm-hmm.

What would your household income be after retire, rehire?

He also does some side hustles because he's a firefighter and doesn't work.

He works, but odd hours. This boy ain't scared of work, is he? Yeah, good.

No, not at all. Probably works too much. I would say we would probably be in the high 200s, low 300s.

And your mortgage is how much?

A hundred and twelve, right?

Okay, so you guys just need to sit down and say, what would it look like to pay off the mortgage in 14 months or 12 months?

Yeah.

It's $10,000 a month. You can do that.

Totally can do that. And then we'll call and then screen with you.

Exactly. You can scream, and then you can take less hours and enjoy. It's only your early 12 months from your goal of being able to chill a little bit with your condition, right? Yeah. If you frame it up that way, maybe he's a little… Because After that, you're at Baby Step 7, and then all you've got left to do is enjoy life, be generous, and invest. He can go to investing a whole bunch of stuff after you knock this mortgage out, but he's only 12 months from that goal.

I'm curious, what's his pension in relation to your take home?

I actually am the one that my hourly salary is about double his salary.

What do you do?

I'm a nurse program manager. I help with heart attack patients in the state of Maine. Oh, wow.

So again, the question still remains the same. I just wanted you to run these numbers out. What's your take home compared to his pension?

Yeah, how much of a raise is he going to get to offset the In fact, you don't work as much?

So his pension will probably be about, I don't know exactly, but let's say 50,000, and I make about 100,000.

Okay. So if you quit cold and he got a 50 the household is only down 50, and you do that after the mortgage is gone, that's a very doable thing is what Ken's asking. That's where you were going, right?

Yeah, because I want you to get to that place of enjoyment because you now can. I want you to be able to cast that vision to him. Hey, we're still going to be great on retirement. We're still fine with our baby steps. We've completed them. We got a paid-for house, and I've got a better health situation.

Or, Mindy, the weird thing happens when you don't have to work anymore, it's easier to work. Yeah, that's right. Maybe you're putting in 60 hours and you can go to actually 40 or 35 or 30 and make a really nice living, and you don't have to be there. All of a sudden, it changes how you walk in the building and the stress The stress because what's your... She said she had a hard thing, and she works in a hard area.

It's very missional, isn't it?

Yeah, there you go. But it's stressful. I'm going to guess and say you probably won't want to quit cold. You probably enjoy enough of your work to do some of it, and the fact that they probably need you like they need him. You guys have picked two great careers. You're going to be multimillionaires, and you will have enjoyed your life through the process and serve your community, both of you, firefighter and nurse. These are acts of service, both of them.

I love that retire, rehire, man. That's strong.

Stack some cash. Strong, strong, strong. I love it, love it, love it for you This is The Ramsey Show.

This episode is sponsored by Better Health. Hey, if you're like me at this time of the year, all of the school plays and meetings and invites from everywhere have completely drained your social battery. Or maybe you're like some of my friends who are bursting with energy so much that everyone may be telling you to just chill out a little. If you're having trouble navigating mismatched energy levels, boundaries, or finding people to do life with, it might be time to talk to a therapist. Therapy can be a place to open up with someone who's been trained to listen and walk alongside you and help you find paths through the chaos of mismatched energy levels and more. If you're thinking of starting therapy, try Betterhelp. Betterhelp is completely online and flexible enough to fit your schedule. Just fill out a short questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapist at any time for no extra cost. Find your social sweet spot with Betterhelp. Visit betterhelp. Com/delonie today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P. Com/delonie.

Well, a big week around Ramsey publishing over here. Two books going on presale. Rachel launched a number one best-selling children's book in the fall. I'm glad for what I Have. The follow-up book, she's going to do a series of these, apparently. Now I'm learning this, but there you go, is I'm Glad for Where I Am. You'll be content with Home, and the other one is Content with What You I have, only this one's about gratitude, the other one's about contentment. And fabulous illustrations, award-winning illustrator. Just really great. I read these to my grandkids this weekend. I had different ones at different times for Easter. The oldest ones, of course, don't let me read to them, but the little one just, Papa Dave, give me a book. There you go. Papa Dave will read to you because I tell you what makes you smart when people read to you when you're little. I read all the time I get, anytime I can. There you go. And increasing the intelligence of that next generation, so they never live in my basement. That's what we're trying to do. But yeah, there you go. That one's coming out the 16th of the month of April, and it's on presale now.

I'm glad for where I am. And Ken Coleman has got a new one coming out. This is a different book. Find the work you're wired to do. Now, he's done two number one best sellers before. This one is more of a how to take the assessment book. That's right. Or how to interpret the assessment. That's right.

The assessment and this short book together answer-The get clear assessment.

The get clear career assessment. That's right.

So essentially, you get the assessment, and then this book picks you up with your results. So here's what it does in four short questions.

It teaches you to speak.

I can't speak, but I can write. No, it's answering who you are, why you are wired that way, what you want to do professionally, and then how you get there. That's what this is going to deliver for you. There's awareness, so you walk away with great clarity on direction, confidence that you can actually do it, and then how do I tactically get there? It's a combination of the assessment, and this short book is me essentially guiding you, coaching you with your results. There's nothing like it in the marketplace because it's not a personality profile, as you know. No, it's not. There's enough of those out there. This is how am I wired? What do I do well? What do I enjoy doing? Then What motivates me, and this is the key, by the way, to winning professionally so that you win financially. 96% of millionaires, according to the largest study on millionaires ever done by Ramsey Solutions, 96% said they enjoyed their work. That's essentially, if you want to boil it down to a money audience, that's what this product does. What's the work that I would enjoy?

You very seldom prosper at something long term. It's not sustainable if you hate your job. That's right. If you hate your job or you hate the place you work, and you're confused, I want to do something different. I don't know what to do. I got to get out of here is all I know. That's right. Whatever here is. It could be a whole new career path. It could be a whole new job. It could just be doing the same thing you do, but not with toxic jerks. It could be all of that can be revealed when you take the get clear assessment. That's exactly right. This new book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do, will help you analyze the findings of the get clear assessment. I took it. It was very interesting when it was in beta. That's right. When we were doing it, just to see if it I suppose, who Dave really is. It did. I like these kinds of things. I like know thyself. Yeah.

Let me tell you what this is. In a day and age where people want results fast, this gives it to you. It really does answer those questions. Who am We're talking about the world of work. What makes you really good? By the way, if you know what makes you really good at what you do, it's going to help you convince other people who are going to hire you. And by the way, pay you really well. Building wealth, the secret to wealth is in the professional side of it is knowing your unique role. Where do I fit?

The deal is the get clear assessment has been available on our website for quite a while. Almost 100,000 people have taken it already. We've sold I sold it to that many folks already, and you can buy it today. Or you can buy this book in presale. It comes with the get clear assessment in presale. You also get the audio book and the e-book of this as well with the So you get those two assets. When you do presale on all our stuff, that's what we do. That book actually comes out the seventh of May. We'll ship it to you, the street date on it. It'll be in Amazon and Target and all those places during that time, starting then. Rachel's book is 416, so just a couple of weeks away. Two new books coming out by Ramsey Publish.

Hey, I do want to say this really fast. If you're looking for a graduation gift for the high school grad or the college grad, I would just point out this is something really practical that the high school grad and college grad in about 15 minutes of the assessment and no more than an hour and a half of reading that book. That's how quick it is. It's a short read.

There it is. I'm going to hold it upside down. There we go.

Dave is auditioning for the new Vanna White.

Yeah, and he's flunking. Horrible. Exactly. On so many fronts. But there we go. Open phones here at 828-825-5225. Melissa is in Ann Arbor. Hi, Melissa. How are you?

Hi, Dave. I'm good. How are you? Thank you for taking my call.

Sure. How can we help?

I'm calling because… A long story of how we got here, but the long and short of it is we have some debt, part of it's student loan, part of it's consumer debt. But our rent has gone up like 18% in the last two years. We got offered to… My folks have a basement apartment, and in order to mutually help us and help them to try to better prepare for future, save up stuff, help them pay stuff down, They offered to let us move in and split bills with them. We're going to talk it out together, obviously, but trying to see what your take is on that.

How old are you?

My My husband and I are 36.

How many children?

No children. Okay.

What do you all do for a living?

We have multiple jobs, actually. My primary job is a medical coder. I also have a small business I have a contracted job through our church. My husband is a warehouse supply clerk and also has a small business. Okay. All right.

I am not opposed to families jumping in together, and that includes a grown child quote moving back home, which would be you. What I don't want you to do, and I don't want them to do, is I don't want you to use that move to mask the real problems. Okay? Can I be real straight with you for a minute? Absolutely. Your real problem is not 18% increase in rent. Revealed the fact that you both have weak careers. Am I wrong?

Not necessarily. I have a degree and a certification in my field, and it's It's taking me about 12 years to work my way up in a hospital to get where I am.

So what's your household income?

I pulled the after taxes and insurance. It was about around 70,000.

That's working four jobs, two each.

Well, five, I guess, if you count the church.

That's what I'm worried about, okay? You guys are working. You all are like a hamster in a wheel, man. You all go. You ain't afraid of work. You all work hard and a lot.

How much debt do you have?

Right now, I originally gave them about 79,000 on the phone, but I forgot about there's About 3,900 that we're paying to a relative for a vehicle at zero interest.

What are you, 83,000? Is that what I'm hearing?

Yeah, they're about.

That's a part of the problem, too.

If you go home, make it a plan to pass through there on the way to prosperity, not land there because the world is mean and rent went up and I can't make it out there.

And, Dave, I'm also concerned about the boundary of helping them.

That's a safety net, not a hammock.

And don't get guilted into helping them with their bills, because I heard that, too. There needs to be a boundary there. You guys aren't doing them a favor.

Well, that was what they had said was that this would be primarily to... Because I'm an only child, so I want to live near them anyway because as they age. We only live 10 minutes away from them as it is.

That's good. I want you to help them. I want you to be a good daughter. I don't mind you going through there on your way to prosperity, but make sure you're addressing your core issues. I don't think you are because you didn't like what I said. I might be wrong, but you got to look at that. This is The Ramsey Show. Guys, it's no secret that the real estate market is weird right now, so go with a mortgage company you can trust to have your back. Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted because they're stable, reliable, and focused on you. At a time when a lot of companies are being bought out or going out of business, count on Churchill Mortgage to stick around. They've been doing things the right way for over 30 years, and they'll keep doing them the right way for 30 more. Get started at churchillmortgage. Com. This is a paid advertisement.

Nlls ID 1591, NLLS consumeraccess. Org, Equal Housing Lender.

1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee, 37027.

Ken Coleman-Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thanks for hanging out with us. Hey, guys. Thank you. We appreciate you. The number of you that are out there and the number of you that are talking about this show is apparent because we keep showing up in number 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 slot on Apple. Out of all the two million Apple podcasts, we're one of the top five almost every day, every week, oftentimes number one. We bounce around with Mr. Joe Rogan, which is an honor to be mentioned in the same sentence with him. Certainly, all the different murder mysteries that NPR puts out, they're all over the place. We bounce around with those.

Have you ever listened to one of those? No. I gave one of them a shot. It's not my genre.

We got members of our family, including my wife, and Blake Thompson, too, our senior producer here. That's true. He's way into that stuff. But anyway, if there's other stuff out there, if you I want to. But thank you. Thank you. And thank you for the numbers. Our numbers on YouTube and on our radio stations are just in serious XM. All those platforms are just through the roof, and it's all because of you guys. Thank you. If you want to help us, we can use the help still. We really can. Listen, leave a nice five-star review, click the share button or click a link, cut a link out, and send it to somebody, say, Listen to this, whether it's subscribe, follow. Anytime you do any of those things, it bumps those algorithms on those platforms around and pushes our show to the front and makes it offered to more people who have never heard of it before. It's our only marketing plan, so you're it. We don't own a football stadium or anything like so far. It's just us. Us and you. It's me and you, baby, against the world. So thank you. Thank you for all the help.

All right, Jasper is with us in Oregon. Hi, Jasper. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hey, thank you. Glad to be on.

Sure. What's up?

I'm glad What's your life? Basically, I'm a truck driver. I'm an owner-operator. I hate this job, though, because I'm always on the road, and to leave and go take time off even for a few days costs me money. I want to get out of this business. I've been in I've been in for about two years. How old are you? I'm 28.

Okay, go ahead. I'm sorry.

No worries. My buddy Chris, he watches your guys' show, and he told me… Because I got a new car, and normally, I never I never want to get a loan, but I did. I'm about $33,000 on it. It's about $633 a month for it. It also is about $300 and something for insurance.

How bad you want to quit your job?

Oh, man, I feel like a slave.

I hate it. Sell a stupid car.

I know, but I put like 50,000 dollars on it.

No, I just ask you how bad you want to quit your job. Now, you just told me you don't because you signed up for a $600 payment. You want to know what you're a slave to? You're a slave of a stupid car. That's what you're a slave to.

True. I regret it as soon as I talked to my brother.

Not enough to sell it. You started crawfishing on me. You lobstered right back into the hole as soon as I said, sell it. You back up, didn't you?

How would I sell it? How would I go about it?

Okay, well, let's finish the numbers. You were saying you put how much down?

I put about 15,000 down on it.

Okay. What's it worth right now if you sell it, private seller?

Well, I haven't put much miles on it, so I'm guessing probably about 38, 40,000, depending.

It does-What was the sale What was the price when you purchased it?

I was stupid and I got that extra mileage on it. The dealer tries to sell you. I probably bought it for about 43,000 because it has that-Extra You mean you got an extended warranty?

Yeah. Oh, you can get the... Listen, when you cancel that, you'll get most of that back. Right.

You owe 28, and you think it's worth 38?

I think it's probably worth It's a Honda CRV, a hybrid, so it's pretty popular. I don't know how quick it would sell or for what people would offer me.

It doesn't matter. You're not upside down.

Because if you pull it up on private sale on Kelly Blue Book, kbb. Com, you can find out what you sell it to an individual for. If you sold it, you're convinced at this moment, you can find out in a few minutes with that analysis. But it sounds like you're going to put some money in your pocket when you sell it. Am I right?

Oh, yeah. I would get some money back for myself.

Or you could go buy you a hoopty car and quit your lousy job.

Yeah, I could. Yeah.

Okay. Now let's move on to quitting the lousy job because that's the only thing standing your way.

Yeah.

The other thing is, if I'm a truck driver and I hate my a job. I am using all of that amazing amount of time when I'm behind the wheel of that truck, I'm making phone calls, I'm talking to everybody and everybody that they know, and I'm going to land a job while I'm in the cab, so therefore I don't have an interruption of income. But we've already solved the first problem. You can sell the car, get it back. You're in the truck most of the time anyway. I would be landing something, making phone calls, learning. If I got to certificate program to move into something else, I'm listening to that while I'm in the truck.

Any idea what you want to do?

I just want to go back to school is the issue. Why?

For what? To hide? An engineering degree. Oh, an engineering degree? Because you want to be an engineer.

Yeah, I like energy. If possible, something to do some electrical engineering, I figured I would get a better idea when I'm going to school.

No, no, no, no. Let me save you a step. I want you to be on the phone When you're not in the cab and you got some days off, you're hanging out with electrical engineers. It's the number one way to figure out if I want to do something. If I want to go into carpentry, I'm going to spend a day, at least a half day, shadowing a carpenter. Why? Because Jasper, I want to know the good, the bad. I want to hear him gripe about it. I want to hear him tell me what he likes. I want to know what he makes. I want to know how long it took him to make that. The way we figure out if I want to go into electrical engineering is not to go to school for You go talk to- Those professors have never done it.

That's right.

He's an electric engineer, except he develops weapon systems, so it's a bit separate from what I would be interested in.

Well, again, I'm all for this. I'm just telling you, don't choose to go to school to figure out if I want to do something. Hang out with people that are doing it, do research on it, and then your head and heart will either say ding, ding, ding, or… I'm telling you, I'm saving You're spending time and money, my friend. I think you got an idea, but let's go get confirmation on. The best way to get confirmation is hanging around somebody who's doing it.

A lot of people, Jasper, a lot of people, and you're a sharp young guy, so I'm trying to keep you from doing this. I feel like I've done it in my life. A lot of people, a lot A lot of people go to school to hide from life. When my life isn't working and I hate my job, I'm going to go to school to see if I like it. It's code four. I'm going to go over there and hide for a little bit because my life has sucked driving this truck. I don't want you to hide. I want you to embrace it. I want you to stand on the mountaintop and freaking roar. I want you to step into this, whatever it is, with gusto. I mean, somehow when you were making the decision to be a truck driver, you didn't realize you were going to be gone all the time. You missed that part, and now you hate that part. I really would not go to school until you are a thousand % sure the school is the only way to get to be the thing you want to be. It's not where you go to discover yourself at 28 years old.

All you will discover there is student loan debt. That's right. Sell the car and begin to put together a process of discovery to see where you need to land, and we'll participate. We're going to give you a copy of Ken's free... I'm going to give you a free copy of this. This is a nice gift I'm giving you. It's the GetClear Career Assessment. Hang on, and Austin and the team will pick up, we'll get you signed up for that. Take that, and then you can even call Ken back on the Ken Coleman Show if you want, or go to ken Coleman. Com. He'll help with the whole thing. But you got to figure out a very clear, wise adult process of discovering where you go next. Kids, children go to school to discover themselves. You're not a child anymore. You're like a full-grown man and stuff. You don't have that option anymore. You now need to be wiser than that. Kids should be, too, but you need to be wiser.

That's right. Just to land this for a lot of you out there that are listening and watching, thinking through this, there's a difference between interested, Dave, and invested. I'm interested is great, but I got to know enough about it to where I go ding, ding, ding, and the tuning fork inside your chest goes, That I want to do. That's the difference. Interested? Yeah, that's great. But I'm not going to make a decision until I've tasted enough of it, seen enough of it, heard enough of it to go, I want to invest time and money for the future. It's a big deal. Go test it first. Yeah.

Go sell your car either way. Yeah. Today. This is the Ramsey Show. If current times have shown us anything, it's that the least expected events can and will happen, and we have to deal with it. That's why everyone who has a family counting on them needs term life insurance. For over 25 years, the only insurance company I've recommended is Xander Insurance. Not only because they search all of the top term life plans to find you the best rates, but over the years, they have constantly changed and updated their systems to make the whole process simpler and easier to get the protection needed. You can now apply with a completely touchless experience with everything being done either over the phone or the internet. They also have plans with super competitive rates that don't require an exam, allowing you to skip a step and get the coverage you need faster. Go to zander. Com or call 800-356-4282. Great rates and a simple process mean there's no excuse to not get this done, people. Ken Coleman-Ramsie personality is my co-host. John is with us. John is in Chicago. How are you, John? I'm doing well. How about you guys?

Better than we deserve. What's up?

I appreciate you taking the call, but in a little bit of a blender here, and that's why I'm reaching out. But essentially, I got about $76,000 student loans. 63 of that would be private, 13 would be federal. I can give you the interest rates if you want those. But currently making around $45,000 a year. I graduated from school with a marketing degree, so I'm working at a marketing agency. And it's going okay, not necessarily enjoying it as much, doing a half roll of sales, half roll of internal optimization for Google Ads campaigns, etc. Coming to have learned that I do not like sales aspect of it at all. But starting to cross my mind, I should probably start looking for probably better jobs because there isn't really a lot of room to grow. And after asking for some help and training, my bosses haven't really given me that time after to do that. So the situation there. But essentially, I got a... I'm just going to lay it all out. Sorry for rambling here, but got a car that I bought off my grandma. It's got 135,000 miles. It's reaching the end of its life.

It's currently in the shop today, actually, because I had a flat tire.

What car?

It is a 2005 Buick with Saber.

Okay. Flat tire is not the end of a car's life. It's the end of the tire's life. No. And 135,000 miles on a car is not that much today. No. They usually reach the end of their life somewhere around 335,000. Grandma took better care of that car than you have. You're probably in pretty good shape. What do you make? I agree.

I make around $45,000 a year right You just got out of college with a four-year degree in marketing?

Correct. In Chicago?

I'm an hour outside of Chicago. I'm in Indiana, but I'm a halfway hour drive around the lake.

You've been out of school How long?

I graduated in 2022. I played golf in college, and so I gave professional golf a shot.

How long have you been in this job?

I've been in this job for about nine months.

Okay.

It's entry-level. I'm guessing a small marketing agency. Is that true?

Correct. Yes, about 10 employees.

That's part of the issue. I'm just going to address really quick the income because I can do it in 20 seconds. You need, as a young guy, unless you're married and you're anchored with kids and all that, you need to be looking at a much bigger market. I'm talking about a city where the marketing agencies are bigger and there's room for growth, and there's a good chance you might get about a $10,000 to $15,000 bump just by simply working at a larger agency in a bigger market. I think small town Indiana is not the place to grow a marketing career.

No, I agree with you there.

Yeah. So that I think, addressing the income side of the equation. Yeah, you're not making much. For your marketing degree overall. No. If you told me you were making 75,000, I would tell you, quit your whining and go to work. But I'm tending to agree with you right now because I think some of the lack of attention you're getting is also symptomatic of the fact you're in a very small firm and they're just stepping and fetching, trying to make payroll on Friday. Bless their hearts. That's right.

Yes. I agree with you there.

I don't think they're bad guys. They're just not large enough to have the income to pay you much or to be very sophisticated in their leadership development tracks.

Yeah. I've learned all throughout college and growing up from family, friends, and everyone to always start working away at your 401k early.

No, you got it. Right now, whoever told you that's wrong, you got to get this debt gone. What I would have you do is talk about your income side of the equation. We call it the shovel to hole ratio. You have a $45,000 shovel. You have a hole, it's like 80 grand, 70 grand. That's a pretty big ratio. I would do what Ken is talking about. Let's talk about changing jobs, getting our income up. If it means a move, so what? Go do it. It's an adventure. Nothing is forever. So go give it a run. Go make some stinking money and don't do anything. Don't buy a car on payments for God's sakes. Drive that Buick until it lays down and dies, not as a flat tire. Then Let's get rid of this $80,000. Let's pretend you were making 80K and you lived on 40, you'd be debt-free in two years. If you lived on 20, which is beans and rice, and you worked a side job, then you'd be out of debt in one year.

Wow. Okay. John, I'm going to shoot you straight. Rough math. What do you have to do to be able to put three grand a month away at debt? That's going to get you right at the two-year mark on this 76,000. That's quick math, but that's realistic, right? What do you have to do as a young guy who's single to be able to put three grand a month towards the debt? That's 36k a year, and you're basically there in two years. This is dual.

Three words with one of them hypenated. No more happy hour. That's it. That's the truth. You be working now, John. You be working. We're going to clean up this dadgum mess because when you don't have any debt, then you build an emergency fund, then you buy you a better car, and then we start looking around to see how we can start our 401k and build the adventure that is called your life. You're a sharp young guy. You got a lot of upside, my friend, a lot of upside, and we're here to help you. Thank you for calling in. Nick is with us in Connecticut. Hi, nick. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Well, thanks a lot. I I appreciate you taking the call, guys. I'm a long-time listener.

Sure. How can we help?

Well, just a quick question. I just sold my house about a week or so ago, and it was income property, rather. I'm renting right now in a different state, moved here for a job. Within the past couple of hours, I just paid approximately $100,000 of debt off.

Good for you. That's fun. Wow. From your equity in the sale of the income property.

With all the equity plus, I've been working like a dog the last year. So you wrote a check.

Are you debt-free?

No, not yet.

How much debt have you got left?

Me and my wife have a total of about $110,000 student loans left. I have about 80 of that. My wife has around 30 of it.

But you cleared off 100 more than that today?

Correct.

So you were 210 before. Correct. Wow. That's got to feel like you lost a bunch of weight or something.

I feel pretty great about it, but that's what I want to keep the feeling. I just wanted to pick your brains about… I've been living in the new area for about a year and a half, and we've been renting. Rent is extremely high in this region. And since we're looking into possibly getting another house. I'm a veteran. I have the VA loans, and The rent would be equivalent to what I would pay for a PA loan pretty much right now. But here's the thing, that I don't have the down payment for it. And so my question was, would I be better off paying off the student loans? Yes. Okay.

You've been listening a long time. You knew what I was going to say. I've never told somebody to buy a house who had $110,000 worth of student loan debt in 32 years. Yeah. Ever. I just haven't. I don't want you to. No. It's not about the monthly rent today. It's about what is better for you 10 years from today. Buying a house when you're a broke person, you have to buy an extra bedroom for Sally May, for God's sakes. No, you can't do this. You got to stay clean. I know rent's high. Rent as cheaply as you possibly can because rent is throwing money away for the short term to be able to win in the long term. It's a price we pay to win long term. I want you to just rent as cheaply as you can. I want you to get out of debt as fast as you can, work as many jobs as you can, spend as little money as you can, and get out of debt as fast as you can so that you can buy a house as fast as you can without any debt. When you're debt-free and you have your emergency fund, then I would save up my down payment and I would buy a house.

I would not do it. I know. You just spend all your equity money paying off debt, so you're trying to get out of debt. If you were that Jones to buy a house, you could have stayed in debt. All that debt and turn around and use that $100,000 to buy a house. You knew that wasn't the right thing to do. You knew you should pay it on debt. But now it leaves you broke, no money, and still got $110 to go. Just keep plowing, man. You're doing the right thing. Don't quit. You knew what I was going to say. You said, I've been a long-time listener. I heard you when you came on the air, and so you knew exactly what Ken and I were going to tell you.

So you're telling me there was a chance. No chance.

None. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, host of The Ken Coleman Show, and author of the number one best seller, Paycheck to Purpose, and another one called Proximity Principle. He's my co-host today. Open phones at 825-5225. Dallas starts this hour off with Pat. Hi, Pat. How are you?

Doing well, Mr. Ramsey. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

I was just calling in. Appreciate you guys taking the call. I just wanted to get your take and your opinion. I listen to a lot of your shows and snippets here and there about shared finances, which is how I grew up in my in my life, my parents. One bank account, one finance, one checkbook, so to speak. I am currently about to propose to my soon to be fiance. We have sat down and talked about a lot of the life goals and how we want to raise our kids and how we want to manage our life and everything. Sometimes we butt heads on finances, and Sometimes, I guess I feel I'm about 11 years older than she is and have worked very hard to get to the point I'm at now. I worry about, is there some steps that I should take from possibly getting a prenuptual agreement for assets that I have now? Then also a big question on, I'm currently building a house and about to move into that. Then If we were to pay for that house out of shared finance, but it's in my name, it just felt like muddy waters.

If something whatever happened down the line where we were to ever happen down the line, we're going to divorce. Of course, that's never the goal, but just how to approach that and make the best decisions going forward.

What's your net worth?

Probably about 1.7..

How old are you?

I'm 38.

Okay, which makes her 27, right?

Yes, sir. She's about turned 27. All right.

How long you all been dating?

About a year and a half now. Okay.

All right. What's the nature of budding heads over finances discussion?

I guess when I think about I had bought some property and held it for a while, and now I'm building this house on it. Just, I guess, going forward, should I pay for the house or should she help out? She's just concerned because it's not in her name.

If you're budding heads Are you budding heads over that? Are you budding heads over anything else?

Not a whole lot. We have different thought processes on vehicles. I've had a couple of cars in my lifetime, and she likes to lease cars and do things that way. I've always been more over the… I'll drive a car for 7, 8, 9, 10 years or something before I make a change.

Okay. Well, here's what I want I'm going to get to the bottom of in your pre-marriage counseling or pre-engagement counseling, whichever one you decide to do. Yes, sir. The house disagreement is a valid thing to argue about, and we can I'll walk through that in a minute. Let's set that to the side for a second. You don't borrow money, you're a chipskate, and you drive a car forever, and she likes new things and nice things, and she doesn't mind going into debt.

Right? Yes, sir. Yes, sir, for the most part. She is very good with her money, but she- No, she's not.

People who lease cars are, by definition, not good with their money. It is the most expensive way to operate a vehicle, and it's the inability and immaturity to say no to myself. I go buy whatever the flip I want because I'm an immature child. That's who leases cars, regardless if you're 53 or you're 27, because you just want to buy something. It is the least down, the least a month, and the worst deal to get a new car that you can't afford. So this is who leases cars. So no, she's not good with money. But can we talk through that?

To her defense, she just recently purchased one about eight months ago because I told her, I was like, Man, I feel like leasing money is a good way to waste a lot of money. But I think she's trying to make good decisions. But now a little bit of fired her more. Did she lease it? No, she bought her last one. And pay cash for it? No, sir. She has payments.

Okay. I'm resting my case here. Here's the thing. If I will not delay pleasure to win, that is the definition of maturity. I'm willing to save up and pay cash for things. I'm willing to drive things longer to get the full value out of them and pay cash for them. Thus, you have a $1.7 million net worth and she's broke. That's not to put her down, it's to put her actions down. That is what's concerning me about the marriage, not your 1.7 and not who gets their name on the house. Because the number one cause of divorce in North America today is money fights and money problems. You're not likely to have money problems, but you are very likely to have money fights. Because either she's a great lady, which we suspect she is because you want to get engaged to her, who has some minor adjustments to be made and needs to learn understand some things she doesn't understand about money and move along the spectrum a little bit to move into wisdom, or she's a freaking princess and you're going to spend the rest of your life trying to keep this woman happy.

She's one of the two.

I think it's two, Pat. I hope it's the former. No, I'm going to tell you why it's not. You called us asking us if you should protect your money because deep down in the dark crevices of your mind, when you're When you're being awake at night, you are afraid that she might be a princess. That's the truth. I'm just going to tell you. You don't call and ask that question.

Wait on now. There's a percentage chance.

I didn't say she was going. I'm saying he's worried that she might be. To your advice, Dave, Dave's advice is right. I would do premarital counseling to the nth degree and make sure that money are the first whatever sessions because I think you're worried, and I think you have some justification as to why you're worried. You guys are on opposite ends of the spectrum on money.

Yeah. That's what you've got to solve for the sake of your marriage, and no prenup in the world will solve the disagreement. That's right. You got to get on the same page. You got to get aligned. Right. Okay. That's your protection more than a prenup. Let's change the discussion and pretend we're at a different place, okay? Let's pretend we're four months from now. You guys have been through Financial Peace University together. They gave you some material, which I'll give you as a potential engagement gift or whatever we call those things. I'll give it to you free. You two go through that together. You two sit down with a pre-marriage counselor and work through this issue. Let's say you get through that and she's solid. She's like, I get it. We're doing this, okay? You might look at a prenup more to protect you from her crazy relatives than her at that point because your networth's okay. It's not like through the route. It's not like you got 10 million, you got one. But the house, if you're going to ask a to share your bed. Her name ought to be on the deed. Correct. Yeah, she's right about that.

But you've got a reason for not putting it on there right now. You got to solve for that reason as a marriage thing and then put her name on the deed Indeed. If you want to do a prenup or not, it won't matter on the other stuff. That's what I would do. Hang on. I was going to pick up. We're going to put you through Financial Peace University. Ken Coleman, Ramsey, personality number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Jane's in San Francisco. Hi, Jane. How are you?

Hi, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. I'm going to make this try to talk real fast. My brother and I are co-consultants the reverse of my mom. My mom is in a facility. Dad passed in 2020, and I'm interested in buying my dad's home. Brother tried early on to say he had a video of what my dad wanted done with his home. It was a He went to an attorney who said, Home belongs to mom. In light of this, and what he's already tried, I want to protect myself. I've been told I need to see a probate attorney. Somebody else said, You need to see a real estate attorney. When somebody else said, Oh, no, no, you need to see an estate planning attorney, I'm lost, and I need guidance.

When I bought my- You and your brother are arguing about the house? Is that what you're saying?

No, not yet.

Okay, so you want to buy the house. Is your brother on board with that?

Yes. Okay. Now he is. But he's tried things throughout the past three years We were supposed to sign on that stuff.

That's irrelevant to today. If he's on board with you buying the house, will he sign as co-conservator for you to buy the house? Yes. Then you sign as the other co-conservator and you buy the house. As conservator, it's your job under the law, and you can ask an estate planning attorney, whoever set the conservatorship up, can tell you this, but a conservatorship is you have the responsibility to act in your mother's best interest. Correct. So if as co-conservators, you decide to sell you this house at half of what it's worth, you would not have acted in her best interest, and that sale could be undone.

Correct.

So you would have to pay market value for the house?

Correct.

Okay. If you pay market value for it and both of the co-conservatives, you have power of attorney as a conservator, do you not?

I am the main conservator, yes.

Well, I mean, the two of you together acting as co Conservators can sign to move any of her assets around. You're conserving, you're taking care of her assets. Am I missing something?

No.

Okay, then the two of you sign to sell the house. It's in her best interest. She's never going to live there again. She has a pile of money to take care of her from the sale of the house. As long as she gets market value for the house, no one could object to that.

Okay, because my brothers just pulled some things in the past with these three years that we've been co-conservators, that I just don't trust in anything that he says or does. That's why I'm wondering what a term- Why do you want to buy the house? Because I live on the third floor, and I'm really tired of climbing three flights of stairs, anywhere from eight or nine times a day. This is a single family dwelling, and I'm ready to leave Silicon Valley. It's really expensive.

Where is the house?

It's up near on the other side of Sacramento.

Okay. Why this Why not just go buy you a house that you like and forget it?

I just said no reason.

Just because you're fighting with your brother and you want to win. No, we're not fighting. You told me six times how he's trying to screw you.

Right.

Okay. I don't know where you're from. I'm from Tennessee. We call that fighting.

Well, I was here in California It's just the way people are.

That right there was where showing up for today.

Ladies and gentlemen, you don't get that at your mother's 401k meeting. I'm just telling you.

You do not. No, but you have deeper sentimental feelings about this house.

You need to go buy a different house, honey. You're just chasing some emotional rabbit trail here. If you don't want to live on the third floor, so move. That's okay. It's not hard. There's lots of places you can live. So pick out where you want to live and go buy you a house. Then when your mom needs to sell her house for the good of your mom, then you and your brother sell her house for the good of your mom. There's nothing here that's holding this to you. You're chasing some ghost in the past or something with your brother or some a thing here, some gyration. I'm assuming there's a will in place that causes all the assets to be sold upon her death and divvied up between you and your brother, and that's a standard probate process. You're very protected. You're fine. I think you're going to have a much better quality of life if you go buy a different house. I don't think this house is going to be a blessing. I don't think the process of getting it is going to be a blessing. It's going to put you in too many different conflicting conversations that you don't need to be in just to get off the third floor.

Wouldn't do it. Wouldn't do it. Gray, open phones at 828-825-5225. Today's question comes from Jackson in Pennsylvania.

I work for my parents family business, which is worth over 10 million. I've been working for them since I was 15, and we've all agreed that I am interested and in position to take over the business one day. For now, I'm in the process of learning and advancing. This is fine, but right now, I feel like I'm stuck in my career when I could be making more money at another company doing the same thing. I currently earn only $35,000 a year. Anytime I start doing side hustles to make ends meet, my dad gets frustrated and says he can't give me more responsibility until I'm more committed to the business. How do I balance wanting to make more money now and being content with what I'm making currently, knowing full well I will be financially set in the future when I own the business? My friend Jackson, you just about answered your own question there. You are not stuck professionally. You're stuck professionally, you're stuck emotionally, because you're a future owner. You're young, you're full of hope and vigor and energy, and I want it now. I'm much older than you, and I still struggle with wanting everything now.

I think this is a focus on the now. We win the now so that we can get to the next. You answered your own question. I mean, you have got to get to a point where you go, If I'm the owner one day and I've got some frustrations, I need to be a big boy, sit down with dad and be a man and talk man-to-man, owner to employee who is potential owner, and share some of the frustrations. But ultimately, I think this is about learning and advancing. You can't learn and and advance- And be stuck. And be stuck.

They're not the same thing.

You're just not stuck professionally. You're set up. Your own question says, I'm going to be financially set in the future. I'll tell you, from my perspective, if I were in your situation and I didn't grow up with that opportunity, you're very blessed. You should be very grateful. My friend, welcome to one of the most difficult things of winning. Every person I've ever had a chance to meet and talk to or interview who is successful, they learned how to deal with the tension between patience and persistence. You got to get up and you got to show up, and you keep getting up and showing up. Eventually, you go up. But there is a tension between patience and persistence, and welcome to the game.

I completely agree. Lean in, work harder. But I think it is fair to have a conversation with your dad. One of the rules we teach when we're teaching an entree leadership, and we believe it at Ramsey, we made it true here, the Ramsey Any kids, the family members that work inside of our business, get paid market value for their position. No more, no less. So Rachel Cruz has the exact same pay schedule, royalty on her book, that Ken Coleman does on his book. Now, she might sell more or less books, but she's in the same royalty schedule. And so she doesn't get any leg up. She didn't get double royalties because she's a Ramsey. And she doesn't get half royalties because she's a Ramsey. We don't need They leave labor here just because they're in the family. If you're worth in the marketplace more than 35 for that position, your dad, your company ought to pay you market value, not a dime more, but not a dime less. You got to be paid for the position you are, not for family. You shouldn't be cheated because you're family, and you shouldn't be overpaid because you're family.

Then from there, you work on the transition, the succession plan, the learning, and the processing and the growing. We got three Ramsey's that work on this team. All three of them are paid exactly that way. Not a dime more than market value and not a dime less. That's what they've always been paid. When they came out of college and they were just worth nothing, and it took a little while to get the college knocked off of them and make them valuable, they got paid what we pay a worth nothing just out of college student. Then they get the college knocked off of them, they're worth more, and we can pay them more. That's true of everybody in this team. This is the Ramsey Show. Well, it's National Financial Literacy Month this month. So what are we going to do? Well, we're going to celebrate teachers, teachers of all kinds. The teachers of America love our kids well. They work hard. They're helping to shape the future by making sure our kids get the education they need to succeed with whatever life throws at them. Here at Ramsey, we want to say thank you to our teachers out there with the Teacher Appreciation Giveaway, sponsored by Ramsey Education.

One teacher will win a $5,000 vacation, plus two additional teachers will each win a $3,000 vacation to wherever they choose. It's completely free and no purchase necessary. For more information, just go to ramsey solutions. Com/teacher. Ramsey Education, of course, is the arm of our company that puts high school curriculum out there on personal finance called the Foundations and Personal Finance Curriculum. It's taught in most of the states in the United States now. 48% of the high schools in America have taught it at one time or another, and almost 10 million students have been through it. We continue to have great teachers out there teaching that. We say thank you to you and All of you that enter the classroom at your own risk these days. Thank you for doing that. You should get combat pay. Oh, my gosh. Hey, a couple of vacations, a $5,000 and $2,000, $3,000 vacations are out there. Ramseysolutions. Com/teacher. No purchase necessary. Go and register and spread the word to other teachers that you know that they should register as well. Somebody's going to walk away with those. Grace is in Washington, DC. Hi, Grace. Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Thank you for taking my call.

Sure. How can I help?

I purchased a home in 2022. Right now, I've made a decision to rent the home. I'm currently living with my mom and grandmother. The home needs some repairs. I've put some work into it thus far, but I need about $20,000 to $25,000 more to complete the repairs to get it rentable. My question is- Why are you not living in it? Well, because I live with my mom and my grandmother. My grandmother's 95, so my mom and I are taking care of her together. Then just joint economics at this point. I've been with my mom for this long, and it just works out this way.

You used to live in the You've never lived in the house, though.

I didn't.

No, I have not lived in the house. You've never lived in the house.

I've never lived in the house. Now, like I said, I need about 20 to 25 more in the house.

You live with your mom because you don't have any money, but you bought a rental house.

No, I bought the house.

I'm paying the mortgage on the house. I know. You bought a rental house.

Yeah.

But you lived with your mom for economic reasons.

I didn't have a plan when I bought the house. I really stumbled upon it, got it within 30 days, and then it was just like, Okay, you secured the property, now what's next? I grappled with what to do, whether to move in or not.

Sell it. Sell it. You're too broke to be a landlord. You don't have any money. You live with your mother.

Okay, but I could live in the house if I chose to.

Yeah, but you don't choose to because you have economic problems.

I wouldn't say I have economic problems.

It's what you did say.

My goal is to rent the property to make money because DC is a really hot market. I am comfortably living with mom, paying the mortgage, getting things done there, and plan to rent the house that will pay for the mortgage, and I can save- Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

Let me back up one more time, okay? Because maybe I'm missing something. I thought you told me you lived with your mother for economic reasons, meaning you don't have the money to live in the house.

Okay, that's not correct because I pay the mortgage- What were you saying when you You said economic reasons? Well, because I've been here and I've just been able to save while with my mom.

That's not an economic reason. That's just I wanted… Okay. What do you make a year? I'm just saving. What do you make a year?

I make 96,000 a year.

Okay. All right. You don't have the 25,000 and you make 96,000 a year. How long has the house been sitting empty?

Coming up on two years in June. All this time I've been making repairs. I'm repairing. I'm doing repairs on the home. I have a few more $1,000 needed to make those final repairs and get it rented.

Are you saying it's uninhabitable, meaning you can't get anybody in there until all this is done, the 20 to 25?

Well, I need it maybe about 10,000 to make it habitable. The house was habitable when I bought it. It just needed cosmetic updates. The biggest was I needed to put it in the new HVAC system. That was the biggest blow thus far. But other than that, it's cosmetic. The reason for the delay, to keep it short, I'm working with a contractor who was working with me, so I'm working with his schedule. It's It's just a slow process.

What do you do for a living?

I work in disability rights.

I've been buying and selling real estate since I was 18 years old, and I'm 63. I own several hundred million dollars worth. I love real estate. Real estate is not a magic silver bullet to make you okay financially. You have bet a ton of your emotional life and too much of your financial life on this one rental property, and it still has sat there empty for two years. You suck at this. You've got to get better at being a landlord and managing the project. Let me tell you, if I had that house, I'm not working on any contractor schedule. They freaking work for me. They're working on my schedule. You better get the dadgum thing finished because I want rent. I'm not sitting there paying payments on this stupid thing for two years and collecting no rent because some contractor can't get out of his freaking pickup truck because he's hung over. Come on. This is stupid. You got to get this thing finished. You've got to increase your landlording and project management skills or you shouldn't be in the business. I really think you should sell this house. I really do, because I don't think it's as big a blessing to you as you think it is.

Okay. I really think that. Then take the pile of money that you get from it and decide where you want to be 10 years from now and where you want to be living 10 years from now and what life you want to build. But I would never tell someone as their financial coach to go buy a rental property while they're living with their mom.

What if I decide to move into the property? Because that's on the table as well.

Okay, then fix it up and move into it and have a life. But get that done now, not two years from now. You do that immediately. What is the house payment?

The house payment is 36 a month.

Thirty-six hundred dollars a month for two years. Man, how are you not just screaming?

Because I'm comfortable. I mean, I'm able to pay the bills. Exactly.

Here's the thing. This house, it's not going to make you the money you think it's going to make. You're not going to move into it. What do you think you could... By the way, you don't have the money to actually fix it up. That's why you called. You don't have the money to actually fix it. 20 to 25,000, correct?

Correct. But you're right. I think even with this extra point, you're still going to be right.

I was really calling to ask about pulling from a previous employer 401k. I have 48,000 within that. That's an easier answer. I don't have to get that one. I think I can actually convince you of. Okay, so Let's try this. If you pull money out of a 401k early before your 59.5, you get charged a 10% penalty plus your tax rate. Your tax rate is 30% at 96,000. You're going to get taxed 30 plus 10 is 40% of the money is going to go to the government in taxes and penalties if you cash it out. Never use a 401k for something like this. It's like calling and saying, Dave, I want to borrow money at 40% interest to finish the house remodel that I've been working on for two years for house I don't live in. No, absolutely not. Please, for your sake, not because I'm trying to be mean to you, not because I think you're an in-up person. I don't think you're an in-up person. I don't think you're good at this, this landlording and rehabbing stuff. You've proven it. Your track record is horrible. And so for your sake, sell this house.

And when you get ready to buy something later, buy something that you can just move in and that you're going to live there. And you're going to build a sustainable life for Grace. Grace looks up 20 years from today and says, Gosh, I'm really glad I bought a house. It's been a great place to live. I've made some money on it. I've been able to manage the cash flow on it. But you're sitting over there with Mama and Grandma doing nothing. Please don't borrow money at 40% interest. Please sell this house for Grace's sake. Not going to affect me at all, hon. This is the Ramsey Show. Knock, knock.

Who's there?

Your taxes.

Well, actually, it's George, but you get the point. April 15th is the last day you can file your tax return or request a deadline extension. So head to Ramsey Smart Tax and get this party started. Ramsey SmartTax gives you access to free chat and phone support and saves you up to 70% compared to the other guys. So filing your federal return is easy and affordable, like less than 35 bucks affordable. So go to ramseysolutions. Com/smarttax. Com SmartTax. So when the deadline comes knocking, you're resting easy. That's ramsey solutions. Com/smarttax.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality is my co-host. Open phones at 828-825-5225. You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. Mike is in Los Angeles. Hey, Mike, welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Thank you so much for having me, Mr. Ramsey. How's it going?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, my wife and I have been doing... We're okay. I think so. Anyways, we've got about 200 in savings. Our house is valued at probably around 850, 875. We owe 400 on it. We have a business We work for ourselves as a contractor, and we recently inherited some money as well as some property and looking for some direction on where to go with the property. It's a multifamily property across the country in New York, as well as several mortgage notes each month. We're not sure if we should liquidate the mortgages, sell the building, and move closer to home. That's where we're at.

Wow. What are you make a year?

It's like an optional load. It varies between 150 to 300.

Okay, cool. Who passed away?

Father-in-law. Okay.

All How long ago?

Nine months ago. Okay. All right.

I'm sorry. He obviously was a real estate guy. Yeah. He has mortgage notes that he had taken back on property owner financed, and so he was receiving payments. That's what you mean? Yes. Okay. What's the total face value of those?

It's about 220. Okay. Well, it would be about 340, and then we got some pricing to sell them off.

Okay, so the discounted value is the actual market value is 220 if you sell them, but the face is 340. Yeah. Got you. Okay, that's what I was moving to.

Each month it comes in about... Yeah, and it comes in $2,500 a month, and it just seems like we'd be able to probably do something a little bit more. But we're not living off of that money anyway. It just goes right in the savings, and we're not touching it. It's like, Gosh, well, in 10 or 15 years, when it's fully mature, we'd be able to do a lot more with the lump sum today.

Yeah. The The apartment complex, what's it worth?

1.4..

Okay. What's the owed on it?

Nothing. Okay.

All right. A good way to help you answer these questions, and I use this with assets, I use it with income, I use it with everything. Anytime something lands in my lap or might, I ask myself, okay, right now 1.4 plus 220,000 is 1.62. You're with me?

Yeah.

Okay. If you had a million six cash sitting in the middle of your kitchen table, and you and your wife are sitting there looking at it. Would you go buy $340,000 worth of notes for $220,000 in an apartment complex in New York? The answer to both questions quickly would be no.

Correct? Correct.

Now, that's called a sunk cost analysis. What it does is it makes you critically think only about the future, not about where the stuff came from. The reason you would not go buy those things there is the same reasons you would sell them now. Is because you don't want to manage something from Los Angeles to New York called rental property. That sounds like a disaster. And what you said, I think I can take 220 and do more with it than receiving these payments over the next 15 years. You were correct on both things. Now, the trick is for you and your wife to have a clear discussion about this is to talk about we have $1.62 million sitting in the middle of our kitchen table from your father. What an incredible legacy he left. What an incredible job he did. How nice is How wonderful is that? Now, do we want to go buy an apartment complex with it in New York and some mortgage notes? You see how that changes your thinking?

Yeah, absolutely.

It makes you sell both of these instantly.

Sure.

We used to do this with sellers when I was selling real estate for a living a thousand years ago. If a guy a $200,000 house on the market for $200,000 and someone offered him $190, he'd be going, I don't know if I want to take that or not. I said, Wait a minute. Your house is sold for $190,000. If you had $190,000 in the middle of this table right now and you didn't own this house, would you come buy this house for $190,000? No. Well, you're getting ready to buy it back if you counter offer. If you jack around with this buyer and run him off and you raise the product, try to get that 190 up, you're buying the house back for 192.5 when you screw around with them. It's the same thing. You got to decide, what is it I want? Do I want the money or want the stinking house? In some cases, I look at the thing and I go, Well, I like the thing. I'll keep the thing. If I didn't own that for that price, I'd buy it right now. Then you should keep that, right? If you're like, man, we're thinking about living in New York and we wanted to manage these rental properties, we're going to pull up routes from California, we're heading out, and we're going to live over there and we always wanted to have this, of course, I would buy it again.

Then you would keep it, right? But long-distance landlording multifamily, that's like getting shot in the head. Don't do it.

That's exactly what it feels like.

Yeah, it's a Russian roulette, man. I mean, you're just asking for it. Okay.

Second question, where to allocate it? Where are we moving forward with it?

The only debt you have is a mortgage, right? Yeah. I'd pay that off tomorrow. So now we got one 1.4 again, right?

Then we have some cash in savings as well.

Okay, so now you got 1.4 plus the cash. What are we going to do with that? Well, then the only thing left to do is be unbelievably generous, enjoy your money, and invest your money. So what do you guys want to invest a million dollars in? We'd assume real estate. It's up to you. I don't care. Some people don't need to do real estate. Some people love real estate. I love real estate, and I love That's the only two things I put money in. But you could do whatever you want to do. It's your money. But what do you want to invest a million dollars in? Because you don't want to leave it sitting in a stinking savings account. No, of course not. So you're 100% debt-free. You got 200 in the savings plus a million. You pay off the mortgage of 200. It's about a wash. You end up with about a million six clear, give or take. You got some expenses on selling the apartment. Let's call it a million five. I want to label some percentage percentage of that money, an exact dollar amount, you and your wife discuss it, that we want to be generous in Father's name.

I want to do something in his name. What did he love? He loved wounded veterans. I want to go help one of them, furnish their home. A Gold Star family lost somebody in the military. We're going to go take care of them for a year, whatever. Label some money for generosity. Label some money for hungry kids if that's what he was into. What is it that is in his honor? Let's be generous with some of this. Let's invest most of it and let's enjoy a chunk of it. What is it your wife needs? A new car, a trip, a cruise? I don't know, but some of this money ought to be spent on that. It's a bit extravagant, but you came into a million six, so you can do a little bit of extravagant. Okay. You just can't do a million dollars worth.

Got it. We're pretty full.

We shot the salvation army. You've done a good job till you got to here. So yeah, I know that. I think you've done a really good job.

Still working hard. We just look at the numbers.

What does she drive?

A 2016 minivan.

Buy her a car.

Toyota, Sierra.

Buy her a car. Yeah, okay. You're a millionaire. She needs a better car. She needs a better car. What trip is she always wanted to go on, but hardly talks about it anymore because she doesn't think she's ever going to get to go.

Yeah, all right. Start thinking like that.

We'll talk about it. Because all I'm spending here is less than 100 after we do a bunch of dreaming, and you still got tons of money to do everything else. Yeah.

And simple decision, Mike, just a little jury. A little jury, something shiny, foot on her finger. Good for you.

What you're doing?

Just a Southern accent. I'm bored, I guess. I don't know. The jewelry.

I'm boring him.

No, you answered that one great. I didn't have anything to add except for buy something sparkly for her and some jewelry. Just small stuff.

Just enjoy this. Yeah, Enjoy some of the money. This is big. Be generous for some of the money. Invest most of the money. That's what you do at Baby Step 7. You live like no one else, so later you can live and give like no one else. By the way, if you guys are smart with this, the million he leaves you guys, I'll be worth 30 million when you retire. This is the Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-822. Com. 5225. Today, we have launched a companion piece to Ken's GetClear Career Assessment. Almost 100,000 people have taken the assessment, and we are launching the presale on a book called Find Find the work you're wired to do. Included with the purchase of the book is the assessment, and this book will go on sale presale today. You'll get the audiobook and the e-book with it, and you'll get codes for the assessment with each of them.

So that's a pretty good deal. It's a great bargain, actually. It's like $200 worth of stuff for buying a book. But the book comes out actually May seventh, and the book goes on sale today presale. Rachel Cruz also We're launching the presale on her new children's book today. It comes out in two weeks on April the 16th. I'm Glad for Where I Am. Absolutely incredible kids' books. This is the second in the series. The first one is I'm glad for what I have, which was about contentment. This one's about gratitude, about the gratitude of home. For teaching the kiddos, contentment, gratitude, these are excellent things to teach the kiddos. If teach the little ones that, that's the opposite of entitlement, and it puts them in a completely different position. They're the ones that say thank you and mean it, please and mean it. Manners comes with gratitude, automatically. That's why we teach manners at the Ramsey house. It's old school, I know. But, Hey, you. That's not what we do around our places. Ma'am. Sir. Yes, Papa Dave. Sir. This is how we do it. We honor, respect, Gratitude, contentment. These are character qualities of people who live quality lives.

We want to teach the kiddos all of these things as we go along. Be sure and check them out. Ken, I'm excited about this new book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

Yeah, I am, too. This is really a coaching manual, very short, simple, and it's going to walk you through your results. Once you know what you do best, what you enjoy doing, and what motivates you, this is going to come alongside and basically go, All right, now I know who I am and why I am that way, and Now it's going to help me figure out where I want to go and how I get there, which is all about making more money, more freedom.

There we go. Heather is in Madison, Wisconsin. Hi, Heather. How are you?

Oh, my goodness, Steve. I'm great. Thank you so much for taking my call. It's such a hoot to talk to you today.

Well, we're honored to have you. How can we help?

My husband and I, we are on Baby Step 6. We are earlier this year, we're sitting down and coming up with our budget. We were trying to get an idea about our long term budget, specifically with his older parents, if they wanted to live with us when they were unable to care for themselves. They came to visit. We brought this conversation up with them. During that conversation, we learned that they have never had or made a budget. They have considerably less in retirement savings than we knew about. Their investment strategies are wonky. They're investing in single stocks instead of ETFs or mutual funds, and a lot of other questionable financial decisions. How old are they? During this, so his parents, they're both right around 70 and both retired.

So how much do they have in savings? How much do they have in retirement?

In retirement, they have just under 700, and they do own a home in the LA area, and they may be able to get a million for that, but that's not liquid. In terms of liquid savings, I think they had about 30, and then they have 700 in I meant.

Okay, so they have almost a $2 million net worth?

Yes.

I don't think that sucks too bad. I think they've done pretty good.

They have done good, but we didn't really get an answer about if they wanted to live with us. Right now, we have a home- They don't need to live with you.

They got $2 million. Why would they want to live with you?

Well, when they're older and there's no family around, we want to be there to care for them. We wanted to plan a few years down the line if we wanted to buy a multi-generational house so they would be comfortable and we could share the home together. They really didn't give us an answer about that.

That's not a financial necessity. That's a lifestyle decision.

It's twice you said they haven't said anything. I think there's an old song Eric that says, When you said nothing, you said it all, or something along those lines. I think that's them saying nothing is all you need to know. They don't want to live with you. That's what I think.

Yeah, they got $2 million. I think they're okay. I mean, really, they're going to be- I think- They're going to be okay.

The one thing that we were concerned about is that their largest asset, which is their house, is not fully insured. They don't have earthquake insurance. There are other problems with the house that we learned about.

Nobody in California has earthquake insurance unless they buy it from the state. Insurance companies quit issuing it because California has earthquakes. Everybody in California has that unless they buy it from the state. It's socialized now, like everything else in California.

My husband and I, then, we should just operate under the assumption that, like you said, if they say nothing, that means they're fine. Yeah, we love you and we're here to help.

If you want some coaching on this stuff, we've probably got some ideas because we've done pretty well with our finances. You guys have done a great job, mom and dad, but if you want some coaching, I'm here. Really, it doesn't need to be you because really, for sure, the daughter-in-law, but it would be a very unusual daughter-in-law that gives the advice. It's probably their son that says, Hey, dad, those single stocks, man, you're taking a lot of risk there. You're 75, you probably ought to quit that. But owning a home in LA, it's going to go nowhere but up. If they live 10 years, that's a $2 million house. Okay. They can sell that and move to Madison Freak in Wisconsin and buy whatever they want and hire a full-time butler. They don't need you.

Yeah. We just want to make sure that taken care of as they get older, and we're trying to lessen their risk. So we just weren't sure how we should approach that.

That's going to be up to them because they've done well enough to be worth $2 million. If they want your input and will take it, it would be from your husband. It would be my suggestion. Unless you're just known as a financial expert, I mean, sometimes my in-laws will ask me stuff, but I've also been married 43 years, so it's like I'm one of them now. But But by and large, the actual blood would be the only one that can get through. If your husband took your dad to coffee and said, Hey, I noticed a couple of things here. You may not want my input, but here's a couple of things I would do if I were you. But no big deal, dad. Hey, if you ever want to be in Matt Madison, and you want to talk about doing something together at some point, we'll talk about that. Meantime, we're going to go over here and pile up some money to go with your pile of money. Great. I really would not wring my hands over it, Heather. I think they've done better than you feel like they've done, is what I heard.

I just don't know many old people that want to go to Madison, Wisconsin. Lovely place, but it's cold.

It's cold up there. Well, they are in California.

That's my point. La to Madison, I don't see it.

They're two choices.

That's why a lot of people go to Florida?

Nothing against Madison. Florida, there you go. There you got mosquitoes the size of pterodactals.

I'd rather get a mosquito bite and freeze.

We're going to trash states. Let's just trash them all.

There's no trashing. It's just cold. Everybody in Wisconsin knows how cold it is.

No, but that's just because your blood is thin because you're a Southerner. That's a fact. Madison, Wisconsin is actually a pretty place. It's just cold for a Southern people.

Well, I bet it's pretty in the spring.

That's true. In the spring. In spring is what happens for three days before summer. Exactly. You're so mean.

I'm trying to read between the lines.

I think they don't want to live with you. I think he's right. This is the Ramsey Show.

Hey, friends, it's Ken Coleman, and I've got some big news. The GetClear Career Assessment is now paired I'm here with my new book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. Every book comes with access to the assessment so you can discover who you are and how you're wired. Then I'm going to show you how to use your results to get specific in your job search and find the work you enjoy. Pre-order Find the Work You're Wired to Do at ramseysolutions. Com/store and get the audiobook and the e-book free. Go to ramsey solutions. Com/store.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host Today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. If you got a question about taxes, we get it. Taxes are confusing and yay, even maddening. To help you get a better handle on them, let's unpack a question from one of our listeners. Are there penalties for filing a tax extension? No. There's no penalty for filing a income tax extension, which gives you six months to submit your tax return. But your extension is for the tax return, not for payment. So if you owe money, you have to pay now, whether you file an extension or not. Now, is there a penalty for not paying your taxes? Dadgum, right. Your taxes are due April 15th, whether you file an extension or not. If you owe $50,000 in taxes and you file an extension to October, the only extension you're getting is the filing, not the taxes. You pay the $50,000 now and wait till October to do the paperwork. That's what we're saying. There is no extension on, Oh, we're going to let you wait six months to pay your taxes. No, you'll get penalized out your freaking ears.

So don't do that. You request an extension, you have to estimate your total taxes owed, compare that to what you paid, and make sure you're paying all taxes due by April 15th, whether you file an extension or not, and then you will avoid any penalties. You can file your taxes or file an extension with the help of a tax software or with a pro. If you have a simple return for your taxes, we recommend Ramsey Smart Tax Software. Very inexpensive, not a bunch of got you, not a bunch of stuff where they're going to try to sell you some stupid credit card like TurboTax does, all that crap. A lot of people leaving this. We got about 100,000 people filing on Ramsey Smart Tax now. Pretty incredible. Just using the software. If you got a simple return, that's fine. Then if you've got a a complicated return, you can go to ramsey solutions. Com/tax and get one of the tax pros, one of the endorsed local providers for taxes, and they can walk you through a complicated return, and they're going to charge you. But it's absolutely worth every penny to have a pro in your corner when you've got something complicated.

But no reason to pay somebody $400 to prepare your taxes when you can do it for $20, $30 using tax software. If you've got a simple return. That's the thing. That's what I do. It's what obviously mind-stu. I mean, I've LLLCs. Mine's just thick as a freaking phone book when I sign it all. Obviously, I'm supporting this guy, this guy that does our taxes. I mean, he's wonderful, and I've been a friend for years, although the only time I see him is during the time of year that I'm angry. But Because he never brings me good news. He never brings me good news. It's always you owe money. All right, nick is in Oklahoma City. Hi, nick. Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hey, Dave. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure. How can we help?

I'm the main breadwinner for my family, and I'm just trying to get a better grasp of my understanding of my trajectory for the future. I was just wanted If you could help me out with that.

We'll try.

I have about $50,000 cash saved up. My wife stays home with the kids, and our kids are still really young. They're one and four. She plans on staying home with the kids until they're 18. I'm just trying to make sure me and her are going to be set up for retirement when we're 60, 70 years old.

Okay. How old are you? I'm 35. Okay. What do you make?

I make about 120 a year. Okay.

How much debt do you have?

Zero.

Your house is paid off, too?

House is paid off, yes.

What's your house worth?

I guess if we sold it today, it's probably worth $180,000.

Okay. We'll call it $200 for easy, okay? Because we're not selling it, so it doesn't matter. You make $120, and how much do you have in your nest egg so far in retirement?

Between me and her, me and my wife's 401k, we have about $120,000. She's got $61,000 each.

Okay. Are you invested in good mutual funds in your 401k?

I want to say yes. Okay. It's whatever Fidelity has.

Fidelity has some great ones, and it has some dogs, too. Good mutual funds that have growth stock, mutual funds that have a long track record. We always suggest spreading it across four types: growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international. That's what my personal 401k is in. Okay? Okay. Now, so here's a rule of thumb. If you earn 10% on your money, Okay? Your money will double if you don't add anything to it, about every seven years. Not every seven years. Okay. Okay. We're dealing with $320,000 in a house in 401k today. When you're 42, it should be, what, 640, right? When you're 49, it'll be a million two, million three. When you are 56, it'll be 2.6 if you add nothing to it, right? When you are 60, what? When I say 56, I forgot where I was. I said 4,956, so seven more would be 62, right? 63. When you're 63, when you're my age, you'll be worth $5 million. If you add nothing to it- We just stopped doing. Oh, wow. Okay. And of course, you're going to add to it. You're going to continue to invest systematically and grow, and your income is going to continue to go up.

You will probably trade houses up and pay cash for the move up, but the house will go up in value. It may not make 10% a year, but your mutual fund should easily make that. Okay. I could be a little off. You might only have 4 million, but you might have 8 million. Somewhere in there if you don't do squat, except leave it alone and invest it well and never move. Now, if you move up and go get a mortgage and lease three cars, you can screw this up. But you're not going to do that because that's not who you are. No, sir. If you will systematically continue to save 15 or 20% of your income into your retirement and stay out of debt and continue to be generous and fund your kids' college funds. You and your wife work a plan together and you're constantly being generous sitting down and going over this. You don't have to do it every week like you're about to be repoed because you're not. You've done an amazing job. You're in great shape for 35 years old. You killed it. Way to go. Now, if you'll just continue on somewhat the same trajectory, it's easy to estimate that you've got a 5 to a $10 million net worth at 65 years old.

Wow. I just really couldn't see that far in the future. I It felt like I was sandbagging. Maybe it wasn't working hard enough or I don't know. I just didn't feel right.

But that's good news. Yeah, you're doing a good job. What we tell folks, when you get to this stage, you don't have to be intense and like, freaked out, desperate feeling like you do when you're getting out I did that. But you move from intense to intentional. And so by intentional, I just mean every dollar needs a name. We're going to get mom a little better car this year and pay cash for it. We're going to go on a trip here. We're going to buy a couch here. We're going to fund the Kids College fund here. We're going to put money in 401k here. We're going to be generous to our house of worship or wherever it is that we're generous. So generosity, enjoyment, and investing in a regular It's that rhythm. Spouse knows everything that's going on. We're doing it together, and you continue to work your career and keep your nose clean, man. You're going to end up very wealthy. You've done a great job.

That's good news.

Keep following system that got you here. Hopefully, we had something to do with it. I think we did, or you wouldn't have been calling.

That's a great illustration. I think a lot of people's eyes were opened as you walked him through that. Just to understand compound interest. We hear it. I think we all heard a story here, there once in a while. But if you actually start plugging your numbers in, people don't realize how the consistency really does pay off.

It was 22. I sat in a room and a guy with a whiteboard showed me that at 12%, if I invest $100 a month from age 25 to age 65, it's 176, 176, 176, 176,000. Well, you can't get 12%. You won't if you're not investing it because you sit around and talk about your freaking theories all day. There's that, too. This is The Ramsey Hey, guys.

Are you ready for The Secret to help you reach those money goals that you've been dreaming about?

It's simple. You got to get on a budget. With our budgeting app, EveryDollar, you'll get intentional with your money and build the habits that will make those dreams a reality. And we'll be with you every step of the way. From your first budget to that retirement home on the beach, download every dollar for free on the App Store or Google Play. Remember, today, download every dollar for free on the App Store or Google Play today. Ken Coleman-Ramsie personality is my co-host today. You're welcome to come by and visit us. We'd love to have you. We're just south of Nashville in Franklin, Tennessee. We do this on the Glass, the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. You can come watch ugly paint dry anytime you want. We're here from 1:00 to 4:00 Central every Monday through Friday. A couple of us, a couple of the Ramsey personalities sitting here and doing the show at all times. The homemade chocolate chip cookies, the coffee is on us. Come in as our guest. You come in here, it smells like mama's kitchen. It don't smell like corporate America, I can tell you that. Of course, right in the middle of the lobby of Ramsey Solutions is the debt-free stage, which is where Brad and Susan are.

Hey, guys, how are you? Good. How are you? Better than we deserve. Where do you live? We live in Pasco, Washington. Which is Spokane? It's near Spokane. That's the closest major. Good to have you, man. How much debt have you all paid? We've paid off $329,300 in 46 months. Wow. Good for you. And your range of income during that four years? It was 176 to 242. Cool. What do you all do for a living? I'm a school teacher, a high school STEM teacher. I'm a pharmacist. Very good. Excellent careers. Well done. I got to stop a second. Rhinos on the T-shirt. Rhinostra's success? Yeah. All right. I love the little book. Yeah, that book was awesome. We sold a bazillion of those little books. I love that little book. Don't be a cow, be a rhino. Absolutely. Run through the jungle and knock stuff down. Cows eat cud. I like it. Way to go, guys. Cool. What debt was this? Well, we had $9,500 for a camper, $8,200 for Brad's master program. We have a rental home.

It was $90,000.

$221,000 was our mortgage. Oh, look at it. We're people. No mortgage, no rent or anything. Yes. Did you sell the rental or keep it and pay it off? Keep it. He kept it. I love it. What's the rental worth? The rental is currently $304,000. What about your home? $443,000. All right, very cool. All right. Then the next question, how much is in your nest egg?

About 299.

Okay. Nice. You broke the million dollar mark, Baby Steps Millionaires. We did. 100% everything paid off. Way to go. I'm so proud of you all. Thank you. Way to go. How old are you guys? We're 40. I'm 41. Nice move.

No, that's a pro move by Brad. Way to go, Brad. Keep guessing a year or two younger.

40-year-old school teacher and pharmacist, everything's 100% paid off in their Baby Steps Millionaires. That's incredible. I'm so proud of you all. How does it feel to be completely free? It's amazing. It's amazing. Thanks to your teachings, it really helped us pave the path. How many millionaires in your family? None. You. Yeah. I think you're looking at them. I like it. Way to go, man. Thank you. That is so cool. You're going to be worth so much more because you're only 40. Oh, my gosh, you keep going. It's going to be worth a lot of money. I'm so proud of you all. Well done, well done, well done. Well, the number three in our Millionaire Study of 10,000 Millionaires, the number three most likely to appear career field in the Millionaire Study is teacher. A pharmacist This wouldn't be far behind because you also fall in what we finally discovered after we looked at all these careers that were all accountants, engineers, teachers. These are the people that are making it, attorneys, because they're all process people. They have a set of rules that they go by. You do lesson plans and processes. You don't mess up the filling of the prescription or somebody dies.

It's a big deal, right? Or at least they don't get well anyway, minimum, right? There's a process. You don't get to... It's not art. You don't make it up. You got to do it the right way. There's one way to do it, and that's the right way. These are the people that learn to follow a process, and they're the ones that have a tendency. That career field doesn't mean you can't be an artist and become wealthy, but artists just make it up. Now, you don't get to make this up. There's a law of gravity. You live on less than you make. You live on a plan. You get your butt out of debt. You build wealth. You invest steadily. There's things you have to do here that work every single time. Way to go, guys. Thank you. All right, now that you're completely free, tell people, how do you be a millionaire by the time you're 40? What are you going to do? You just laid it out. Follow the process. It's laid out there for you. You just work hard, go after it, budget, take care of business. I'm lucky Brad came into my life because I was Dave-ish.

I lived with a credit card. I thought I lived to my means all the time before meeting him. Then two years after getting married, our in-laws gave a book for Christmas, The Total Money Makeover, which my dad introduced me to. You're in-law. Yeah, you're in-law. When I was younger, so I was Dave-ish. But Brad read it while he was on Christmas break. I had nothing to do for two weeks. Hey, read a book. Yeah, why not? Even a boring financial book. He was all about it, but I was a little bit hesitant to get on the budget thing. I was like, Really? You want me to do a budget? But it has actually been freeing because it's allowed us to communicate better. The spending is easier when he knows what we're going to spend it on. Yeah, and we've agreed to it. As Rachel says, it's a spending plan. That's what a budget is. It's a plan of how I'm going to spend my money. In this case, you spent it on $329,000 worth of debt in 46 months. You're completely debt-free and millionaires. I love you guys. You're amazing. You're heroes, man. Never again.

Absolute heroes. Wow. Way to go. Way to go. So your parents gave you the book? Yeah. Okay, wow. That's who's with you? Yeah. Okay, waiting. Very cool. They got to be proud. Who was cheering you on and who was telling you you're an idiot for doing this stuff? I don't know that we ever got you're an idiot, but it's not really a popular conversation to have with a lot of people. Our family cheered us on, supported us along the way. That's good. Well, you got good folks, good people around you then. Yeah. Excellent. Very good.

I'm struck by how much you paid off in amount of time. I mean, this was getting with it. I'd love to hear what was the most gazelle-intense- Crazy. Season or thing that you guys did. I want our audience to hear this.

We would throw our kids into the car and go do DoorDash or Uber Eats after work. Both of us just go and do what we can. He does a lot of after-school program for high school. We just worked, Ken. We just got after it, and we picked up the hours if they were available, and we just worked and worked and worked. We had the vision. We don't want this for our kids. Our kids, we have the benefit right now where they're a little bit younger. We can get after it right now. The older they get, the more difficult it's going to get.

Was it worth it working that hard?

Yeah. You work like no one else. Now you get to work like no one else. Exactly. You live like no one else. Later, you get to live and give like no one else. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but it yields a harvest of righteousness. Way to go, you guys. Thank you. Very, very cool. You brought the kiddos with What are their names and ages? Amelia is six and Lincoln is three. All right. We've got a little Amelia running around. Check out the cowboy hat. Way to go, Amelia. Good job sporting that right here in Tennessee. I like it. Good stuff. All right, Brad and Susan, Amelia and Lincoln, $329,000 paid off house, rental property, everything completely debt-free in 46 months, making 176 to 242, a teacher and a pharmacist. They're 40 years old, and they're Baby Steps millionaires. Awesome job. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one.

Where We are free.

Yeah. Wow. Ken, there's a whole bunch of folks stuck on TikTok and Facebook and Instagram saying, With the current state of the economy, I can't get ahead. Can't win. The house prices and the interest rates, I can't get ahead. I'm going to have to live in my mother's basement. I'll never be able to get ahead. And yet, Brad stood up here, made a very profound statement on how to fix that. Yeah.

Work. We just worked.

There's a great place to go when you're broke. To work. This is the Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day. That's funny, Leviticus 13:40-41. If you didn't think the Bible had some stuff in it. If a man's hair falls out from his head, he is bald, he is clean. And if a man's hair falls out from his forehead, he has baldness of the forehead, he is clean. Well, there you go. According to Levitical law, I am clean. There you go. Larry David said, Anyone can be confident with a full head of hair, but a confident bald man, there's your diamond in a rough. What is it with you guys in the booth right in these clothes?

Everybody's having a party in there.

I'm just saying.

Oh, it's April Fool's. You know what? I missed my opportunity.

Wait a minute. That's not a real scripture. No, it totally is.

I know there is a scripture where some two guys made fun of the Prophet Elisha for being bald, and he called a bear out and killed Yeah, so there's that.

So watch for bears. Next year. Watch for bears back there. I'm just saying. True Bible story.

Really happened. I just can't stop looking at your head now that I know how clean you are.

I just feel Mr. Clean. Remember the old commercial?

Does it mean that I need to shave my head?

No, it does not. No, some heads should be covered. That is true, by the way. Some barns need paint, and some heads should be covered.

I'd look like a sunflower seed.

I Probably pointy. I don't even want to think about that. Andrew is in Kansas City. Please get us out of this, Andrew. How can we help?

I was enjoying that one for a little bit, guys. All right. My big dilemma right now is basically job opportunity, job situation. The job I have right now, it's a remote job, so I get to work from home. Be My two little kids, I got a daughter who's three, son who's one, baby on the way. So it's awesome. But just recently- God, how can you work from home in that circus? It's actually... Well, my wife holds it down real well, so she She gives me that- Man, it's hard for me to work from home.

I just have a dog. Okay, anyway, what do you make at your remote job?

There's a few layers to this. I guess the base salary as of right now is a $97,000 base salary.

What do you make?

Right now, I make about $155,000.

That's because- At the remote job? It is, but I'm not remote right now, and that's why I'm in Kansas City.

It's an onsite opportunity at a construction site, so I'm working on site for our client as of right now.

Oh, so it'll be '97 when you're back home? Exactly, yeah. Okay, so we're going with '97. What's your other option? Traveling?

Yeah. The option is I'm here with our client, and they want to hire me full-time, which if I take this job, I would keep the same exact position as of right now since I'm in-person with this client, but I would just work for their company.

Then you make $155.

I'm at $155 right now. If I took it with them, I would bump up to about $235, and that's starting.

And you would be traveling why? Why would you be traveling? They're there. You don't work there. You're going to all around the country at different sites?

Yeah. Right now, they're traveling. They're based out of Louisiana, the company that I have the offer with. It would mostly be probably two to four year projects at a time. I would probably be here for another two, three years, and then I'd probably do one or two more. They do have a few offices where I could settle down and just work in their district office.

How much would you be traveling in a given month?

No, I guess it wouldn't be traveling- You would just be at a workplace instead of working from your bedroom?

You can move to Kansas City, make $235,000 versus $97,000, and all you got to do is be willing to go to work.

Yeah. I'm absolutely not afraid to work.

No, I'm just saying all you got to do is go physically to work. You just have to walk over to the place and not have your child in the next bedroom.

It's tough. I mean, yes. Why is that tough? I'm already doing that. No, I'm hoping I'm explaining it well enough because I'm doing that now. I'm going to work right now.

I know. You don't currently live in Kansas City, though.

No, I do. I moved here for this onsite opportunity, but I'm with my remote job.

And you would stay there for at least two or three more years?

Yes, but I would just be switching to our client's company. And then from there, I would, yes.

After that job is complete, you would have the option of moving to the next city with your whole family. Correct. Or moving to a district office and never having to move again. So what's the question?

That's where I'm at. I'm strongly leaning yes because it's a huge financial jump. It could do wonders for my family, my children, our lives. But my only concern is I value my wife and I's relationship and the way that my children see me, the father I am, not just the money. I value that over all of that.

Okay, so hold on. Let me jump in. Let me jump in real quick, okay? Because I'm trying to speed it up. If you take this job, you're working eight-hour days, 10-hour days?

Ten-hour days.

How much?

Ten-hour days. Okay, great.

That would not in any way devalue your role as a father and a husband just because you're working those hours outside of the home versus inside the home. In fact, that's setting a really great example for your kids. Is your wife going to adjust? You She said she's holding it down anyway. Dave said, How do you get work done? You said she's holding it down.

Absolutely. She does. She stays at home, which I'm glad she does. She stays with her kids, and she's happy to do that.

Let me ask you this. Does taking this job, does it forward you significantly beyond the financial part? Does it set you up professionally to go where you want to go or be 15, 20 years from now?

I think that's a tough question. I think it It's good because- Let me just tell you, the data says people that are working remote aren't getting promoted.

People working at work are getting promoted because they're in proximity of the people that will promote them.

I'd get the answer. I don't mind that you don't have the answer now. I'd get the answer because here's the deal. You don't just make this decision. This is a no-brainer as it relates to money. No-brainer.

It's a no-brainer as it relates to family. You're not damaging your family. I agree with that. You got eight hours a day in the bedroom or eight hours a day at the workplace.

Yeah, and I'm not too worried. I'm really not too worried about that either. I've always been a hard worker. But I think my bigger concern was, I guess, your guys' input on, of course, we all know, is the money worth it, which I think we all know it is, but is traveling with my young kids- You're not traveling.

You're driving across town to an office.

No, but I'm just saying after this, after two years here, I go to- Well, then you can decide if you want to move, but they're not putting you on the road even then.

You just pick up your family and move. You sell the house and you move to Louisiana, or you sell the house and you move to Abilene, or wherever the next freaking four-year gig is.

I get what he's asking.

Or you don't. But you're not damaging your family. You could quit the job after two years and still be way ahead. But in the interim, your only question is, do I work remote or do I work in the office for two and a half times the money? That's a no-brainer, and it's definitely not psychologically damaging your marriage. If it is, you didn't have one in the in the first place. It's certainly not damaging your children, or otherwise, you were damaging them when you were working at home. Unless you're not working when you're working remote, you're not losing any time with wife and kids.

That's right.

Because you're supposed to be in the bedroom locked in there working. That's what you're getting paid for when you're working remote, not out jumping on the trampoline for two hours a day. You're not losing anything with the kiddos unless What you've been stealing from your employer when you were at home. Which, by the way, when you're supposed to be working and you're being paid for working and you're not working, that's called stealing people, for those of you that are remote and confused about that. That's theft. You're being paid to do something and you're jumping on the freaking trampoline and you're calling that nurturing. Meanwhile, your children go, My dad don't work much.

Right. Andrew, one thing I would say is the 1-3-year-old and then the baby moving from city to city over the next- They don't even know it. They don't have a clue. Now, once they get into school, elementary, middle school, then I think that's a real decision. But as of right now, I would take this latter opportunity because the kids don't have a clue. There's going to be a while before they're even the oldest. You got at least two years, so the oldest is even in kindergarten.

You moved from Atlanta to take this job. How old were your kids?

Ty was a third-grader, first-grader, kindergarten.

And they all prospered. They're fine. They're fine. And you work a lot.

That's right.

From here. It puts us hour, the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it, in the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, folks. Dave here. You want to hear even more life-changing content from Ramsey? Download the Ramsey Network app so you can catch all your favorite shows all in one place, like the Ramsey Show, Smart Money Happy Hour, and the Dr. John Deloney Show. You'll get real talk about life, relationships, money, and your career. Plus, the app lets you browse by topic like debt, business, or selling your home. Get the content you want whenever and wherever you want to listen. Download the Ramsey Network app today.