Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel here with the man himself, Dave Ramsey. This is your show, America.

That's my new title. The man himself.

I like.

I don't know what himself is. It's epic. I'm always himself now.

Legendary.

Who knew? Wow. Open phones here. We want to talk to you about your life and your money at Jason's with us in Hartford, Connecticut. Hey, Jason, welcome to the Ramsay show. Thanks, Dave. How are you doing today? Better than I deserve. What's up, man? Okay. Yeah. I'm a longtime listener. And I'm a longtime saver. I was hoping you could answer a question regarding a retirement disagreement between my wife and I. I'm 54, she's 51. I'd like to retire next year. At 55, I feel like I have enough savings to retire comfortably, maybe possibly do a side gig. And she doesn't feel like we do. So just asking for some advice.

Well, retirement is not a feeling, so that's at least some consolation to you. We can look at some facts and data to go. All right. Do you have the finances to retire? Is your nest egg big enough?

How much is your nest egg, dude? Around two and a half million. So she needs more than a couple of hundred thousand dollars a year to live on? Apparently.

So what's your current expenses?

Right now, we're probably about $8,000 a month. Okay. So you need $100,000 a year to live and two and a half million invested in good mutual funds, if it made 10%, would be $250,000, right? Correct. Now, you probably don't have access to all of that at 54, do you? No. She's going to be younger. So she will probably work until you can't access all the two and a half million now, at 54 years old, because some of it's in 401, right? Correct. 59 and a half before you get to it, right? Yeah. Have you got some money to live on until you get to 59 and a half? Well, she's actually employed. She makes most of the money in the household. What does she make? She makes around 160 a year. Okay. And your expenses are $8,000. So if you weren't even there, she'd be okay. Correct. I think she's trying to tell you something, actually. I just want to get out of corporate. Okay. Yeah, there's a couple of things. Mathematically, the answer is you're just fine. And I just outlined why as soon as you get access to two and a half million, if it's invested.

Well, if you pull off 8% or 10% of that a year, regardless of whether she's working, you easily are going to make more than it takes to cover your expenses, right? Correct. It's a math thing. Like George said, it's not a feeling, but I think there's a lot more going on here than this. Well, we're completely debt free. We have no credit cards. No. I mean, she doesn't want you sitting at home on your butt at 54 years old. It's just going to be a career change for me. I'm very handy. Side hustle is different. I want to retire and do a side hustle. It's not a side hustle. It's a business. Retire and open a business. Okay, well, we'll call it a business. Yeah. Let's start a small business idea that makes more than you used to make in corporate. Yes. And then none of this is an issue. So I just can't recommend. I'm 63 and I can't recommend you do nothing. It's not worked out for most of my friends. They die. No, I'm not going to do anything. Trust me. We have a younger son that I actually want to spend the summers with, so the business would give me the flexibility to schedule work based on his school schedule.

So if he was home in the summers, I could spend more time with him. So this is kind of a work life balance thing for me. Yeah. You have the money to do whatever you want. I'm now moving from financial to life. Do something. Okay. Babysitting your kid in the summers, going from that with the net worth you have is your only goal. And calling that life balance and making it sound cool, it's going to wear pretty thin quick, dude. You're going to want to go do something with your life, and you're too young to do nothing. You're too valuable in the marketplace. So go do something with your life. That's just guy to guy right there. There's nothing to do with the math. The math is you're just fine. And I kind of think in this argument with your wife, she's a little bit worried about that. I don't think so. Because I'm pretty involved in all kinds of activities and civics. That's not the same thing. Well, I have a lot of activities to keep me busy. That's not the same thing. I'm talking about being of marketplace value, not simply serving the jcs.

Okay. And so you can do whatever you want to do. I'm not belittling you for that. I'm just trying to listen to what's going on here because there's nothing in this math that says you can't quit cold today. All the math says you can quit. Well, the issue for her is she just doesn't think we have enough. That's the thing. She's just worried that we're going to run out.

Have you shown her the expenses and the net income and what the retirement accounts will do?

Yeah, we've already met with a planner and he says we're good to go as well.

Well, then she just doesn't believe the data at that point.

Lady that makes $160,000 a year is not stupid. So what is she really saying? That's what I'm trying to figure out. No, she's come from a family where everybody works. No, she didn't come from a family where math didn't work. Math works in all families. She doesn't believe the math, I'm telling you. Well, that's a different issue. But she's not too stupid to believe the math. She's not wanting to believe it for some reason. And that's your core issue. It's not do I have enough to retire? It's how do I deal with my situation? So I have a friend I talked to the other day. He's like the 6th guy to ever go through financial peace University. He called me up and I met with his grandson. That's how long ago this was, right? Met with his grandson the other day, who's a millionaire because this guy went through financial peace university. Pretty cool. But the first time him and his wife walked in, she was a real estate agent and they had $4 million. They were in their fifty s and she thought she worked like 80 hours a week selling real estate. She could not relax.

And I sat down with the math and I showed her the exact same math that he had been showing her that $400,000 a year, 30 years ago. $400,000 a year, 30 years ago. You've got enough. You don't have to be in freak out mode. She relaxed, calmed down, ended up selling more real estate because she wasn't in freak out mode all the time. But it was an emotional thing, like with Jason's wife, because Jason's wife, the lady I'm talking about, is not dumb. She's brilliant. And Jason's wife's not dumb. They don't generally pay dumb people 160 grand for much of anything. Generally not for long, anyway. It catches up with you being dumb.

Is it the security gland that flares?

Could be.

It could be scarcity mindset, essentially.

Like, I knew a guy that was a billionaire, and I asked him why he worked all the time, and he said, I grew up dirt poor. And I'm like, well, I get that. And he goes, no, like, the dirt, the floor in our house was dirt. That's dirt poor in Appalachia. And he goes, I can't get that out of my system. So I work all the. That's, that's not a math problem. That's not a financial problem. That's a psychological problem. You have a wound from your past, a trauma that you've not overcome. And that's a Dr. John Deloney answer. It's not a George Camel Dave Ramsay answer, right?

Yeah. Well, a lot of that has to be dealt with if you're going to ever think it's enough, because you'll never point. You go, you get 20 million.

This guy had a billion.

It could all go away at any time. So I got to keep stacking. Keep stacking.

Yeah. And listen, you can't get enough. Godliness with contentment is great. Gain financial peace. Two words that don't go together, like airline service. Right? This is the Ramsey show.

This episode is sponsored by Betterhelp. Hey, it's Dr. John Deloney. This time of year can be great, but the holidays can cause anxiety for a lot of people, especially about giving gifts. Maybe your family makes super thoughtful, handmade things, or they demand you buy really expensive things. Or maybe you just like experiencing time together. Or you all just pick up random gift cards last minute. No matter how your family does gifting, remember to take care of yourself. Whether it's going easier on yourself during tough moments or treating yourself to a day of rest from everyone and everything, remember to give yourself some love this holiday season. And if you're thinking of starting therapy, give betterhelp a try. Betterhelp is flexible because it's online, so it can fit into your busy holiday schedule. Just fill out a short questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists anytime for no extra charge. In the season of giving, give yourself what you need with Betterhelp. Visit betterhelp.com deloney today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp. He lp.com Deloney.

George Camel Ramsay personality soon to be number one bestselling author, we have launched the new book as my co host today, breaking Free from broke, I actually am holding one that they really came in when I got here. They were on my desk. They're pretty cool, man. This is the real book. It's coming out January, but it's in presale right now. Breaking free from broke, the ultimate guide to more money and less stress. On pre sale right now in the store, along with a lot of other wonderful Ramsey goodies. Rachel's new book is about sold out. We've got another order coming in. The children's book. It's gone crazy.

I'm glad for what I have.

Thank you. That's what the book is called, and we're glad that it's selling. Thank you. I'm glad for what? I have another bestseller.

Well, you posted a great picture of you with the grandkids reading book, and I think that pulled everyone's heartstrings.

I don't know if I was reading. I think I was just kind of hanging out. Yeah. Was I reading it?

Well, it was a posed photo I imagined you reading.

Yeah, it was. Rachel. Yeah.

I'm sure the kids love when you read to them.

Yeah, it's great. Papa Dave's read.

The total money makeover to those stories.

Are a big deal, man.

Epic.

Just saying. Epic because I just make up stuff. Justin's in Washington, DC. Hey, Justin. What's going on? Hey. How you doing, sir? Better than I deserve. How can we help? So, I'm active duty military, and I have a decent amount of credit card debt, along with debt in general. And I really am trying to figure out how I can start knocking this debt off and eliminating this, because it's become a bit of a burden. And I honestly don't even know where to start. Cool. How old are you? I'm 28. Cool. How much debt you got between house credit card vehicles? We're about 350. How much of that house? 290. Okay, so you got 60,000. How much of that cars? About 30 to 40. Okay, so you got 30,000 in credit card debt. Roughly. Roughly 28? Yeah. Okay. All right. Wow. Thanks for your service. Which branch you serve in? I'm currently an army, sir. Okay, cool. Thank you very much. How long you been in? I've been in about six and a half years. About long enough to make this mess? Yeah, unfortunately. Okay.

And you're ready for a change. The payments have caught up to you and you guys are feeling the weight of these and you want out.

Yeah.

What's your household income?

Between my wife and I, we're about 100,000.

Great. So you make 100, you owe 60 in this consumer debt. So the question is, how much margin can we create to throw extra on the debt? And we're going to follow the debt snowball method. That's the way 10 million people have followed. It's the same way I got out of 40 grand in debt. And so you have how many debts?

Three.

Or is it more than that total between the car loans and the credit card, is it multiple cards?

No, it's one credit card. And honestly, I really didn't even want to get a credit card to begin with, unfortunately. But when you become a homeowner, it's one of those things where you got to have it as, like, a backup plan.

Well, a backup plan would be your own money. Like having an emergency fund where you.

Become money would be a backup plan. Debt didn't turn out to be a good backup plan.

20% interest on 30 grand is a bad plan, for sure?

Yes, absolutely. Okay, so we're going to list the debt. Smallest, largest. You have one big credit card, one big car, and that's it. Other than the house, is that it? Yes. One of my cars is paid off already, and then I do have a motorcycle that. We're alone 10,000 right now. Okay. And what did you say the household income was again? We're about a little under 100,000. It's like 98 and some change. Okay. Justin, when I was exactly your age, I filed bankruptcy. That was 30 years ago. About 35 years ago now. So I know how it feels to be scared and broke. And after that, I figured out how to get out of debt and stay out of debt. And I figured out that it was worth it to sacrifice. Now I call it live like no one else, so that later you can live and give like no one else. The way you're living life now is all the money comes in, all the money goes back out, and there's nothing left but stress. After each paycheck, we still pocket about anywhere from 1500 to 2000 a month after all of our bills.

If I woke up in your shoes, knowing what I know now, and today I'm a multimillionaire because I'd quit doing stupid crap, or as much I limited the stupid crap I do. Right. And so if I woke up in your shoes, I'm going to give you a real harsh prescription, because I know that the faster you get out of this mess, the faster you're going to actually become wealthy. You see the ratio of that? Yes, sir. Okay. Anyway, I would sell my motorcycle today. It's a freaking toy. You don't need it. You can get your motorcycle later, by the way. I have several things with wheels and motors in them now, but I didn't have them when I was broke. And so you drive like no one else. So that later you can drive like no one else. You're driving a $30,000 car. I'd probably consider selling that and moving down. But if you want to plow your way through it, you got $60,000 worth of debt. And if you do that at $2,000 a month, that's 30 months. Right? Two and a half years. You don't need to see the inside of a restaurant, and you don't need to go on vacation.

The only time you're in the inside of a restaurant is if somebody you love is working there and you're getting a free meal. And that might be you, but I don't care. Nobody is going anywhere. Except we're getting out of debt. We're living on beans and rice. Rice and beans. We're going to clean this freaking mess up and we're never going back in debt again. Because if you didn't have any payments but a house payment right now, man, you'd have some money. And you deserve to have some money because you have put in your time serving your country. You don't deserve to be this broke. Absolutely, sir. Now, will you say this is going to boot camp? That's what I'm doing. You hearing me? Yeah, absolutely. So I actually do have my motorcycle up for sale right now. Good. You're ahead of me.

What's it listed for?

So after all the aftermarket stuff I put on it, I'm trying to sell it for about ten. Yeah. So I figured if I can get maybe a little bit less, maybe 9500, I can put the. Yeah, you can cover it or a little bit more and you'd have 500 to throw at the credit card. Chop the credit card up. Get your wife on a budget. You two sit down and get the every dollar app out. It's completely free to download it and use it. It's the number one budgeting app in the world. Go check it out and sit down and lay yourself out a budget and commit to boot camp for the next 24 to 30 months. And you could be debt free, but the house, and then that sets you up with a lot of money in your pocket to do a lot of stuff with in generosity, in investing, and to begin paying off your house. Yeah.

And there's a lot of sacrifices you can make. If 30 months sounds like a long time let's sell more stuff. Let's increase the income. Let's get the expenses down.

Donna's in Wilmington, Delaware. Hey, Donna, what's up?

Hi. How are you, sir?

Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Well, I'm just checking with you. I've been listening to you for about two months, checking with you to see if I'm making the right decision. My husband and I are seniors. We're retired. We own a house in Delaware, one in Lewis, which is near Wilmington, and a rental property in Rehoboth. And my son lives in Connecticut. And we're considering of buying a third home up there instead of visiting him and paying hotel rooms all the time. Buying a house and making it into an Airbnb. And this way we can use it when we want and rent it out when we can. The two houses down here are fully paid off and our rental property pays the expenses for our house here, which is a good thing, but it would mean having to go into debt when we go to Connecticut. We don't have much money for a down payment, so we'd have to mortgage the whole thing. And we're looking for no more than about $250 to $300,000 for a house up there. I just don't want in my sixty s to make a wrong decision.

It's a wrong decision.

Five years down the road eating cat food after I.

It's a wrong decision. Don't do it. You don't spend $250,000 of borrowed money to avoid a hotel room. No. Well, eventually. Not eventually. That's exactly what you're doing. And then you got to screw with Airbnb people. Lord help you. Have you ever rented to Airbnb people? Now you're running a hotel?

Oh, yeah.

That's a total pain in the butt.

This is going to be a big headache and it's going to cost you guys a lot of money and it's going to cost you your piece.

Just rent you a hotel room, honey. I mean, you go rent the freaking four season suite in a corner for a lot less than this and pay cash for it. I mean, just. No, no. If you can't pay cash for toys, don't buy toys. And this is a toy. Donna, we love you. If that sounded harsh, I apologize. I'm coming up on a commercial break and I wanted to tell you the truth because I love you. This is the Ramsey show. Look, life insurance has one job to replace your income for your dependence. If you die, that's it. So if someone tries to sell you high cost life insurance that doubles as savings or an investment strategy. Scams like whole life cash value, variable life, then run term life from Xander. Insurance is a much smarter way to protect your family's future. Xander shops all the top companies to find you the most affordable term life rates. Then you can go build wealth with what you save, not by falling for those crap policies. Go to xander.com to learn more. That's xander.com or 803 564282. George Campbell Ramsay personality is my co host today. I'm Dave Ramsay, your host.

Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones at, say America. I just came back from an overseas vacation in Egypt, and I'm shocked as to how many people in other countries they recognize everywhere we go, listen to this show.

It's because your co host is half egyptian. So now I'm bringing a whole new market.

That's it. They were like, George, you know, George Camel. You're the guy with George Camel. That's what they kept. That's what they told me over and over.

I'm sure you stand out like a sore thumb there, too. It doesn't.

Oh, yeah. Lots of sore thumbs. In the lobby of Ramsey solutions on the debt free stage. Brandon and Hannah are with us. Welcome, guys. Where do you guys live?

We live in a small town called Mount Dora, just outside of Orlando.

Awesome. Welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you paid off?

A whopping 143,010. $110,000.

Whopping. You almost grew it there. Yeah. All right. And how long did this take?

Four years on the dot.

All right. And making what kind of household income, range of income?

When we first started our debt free journey, collectively, we were making $48,000 a year at the end. Currently, where we are, we're making about 143,000 a year.

Nice jump in four years.

Yeah.

Very well done. What do you guys do for a living?

I am a corporate recruiter for an insurance technology company.

There we go.

And I work on our corporate marketing.

Team, and we happen to work for.

The same organization, actually.

Shocking. Is that where you met? No. High School. Oh, okay. High school.

Yes.

All right. How long have you been married? Coming up January. Okay. So you started this separately and then finished it together? Absolutely. So what kind of debt was the $110,000 and whose fault was most of this?

There's always one. Well, I think we had $73,000 in student loan debt, my student loan debt, which became ours. We had, what was it, 18 and a half credit card debt. And then we were paying back an auto loan that my grandparents had purchased a car for us when we really needed one, and we wanted to pay.

Them back as soon as possible. Oh, okay.

Yes. And I want to emphasize that the $73,000 was just for my bachelor's degree.

Okay. All right. And what's your degree in?

Communications. Specifically in public relations and advertising.

And now you work in marketing.

That's good.

You're actually using your degree. It's unusual. Wonderful. Good for you. Good stuff. Well, what started this journey, guys?

Dave, four years ago, I called into your show.

Was I nice? You were very nice.

I was in a pickle, had five credit cards maxed out up to my eyes in minimum payments, and I was considering debt consolidation. But the bad kind, where you default on all of your loans and then your credit score tanks and everything goes out of whack. You talked to me out of it. Sent me a copy of your total money makeover, read it cover to cover a few times.

Wow.

And got on the program and then got her along with me.

Wow.

That's the best where are they now story ever.

One of those free books actually worked? Sure. Amazing. That one worked good. Sometimes they work, sometimes they end up in the trash. I'm never talking to that guy again.

You took the advice and you inspired others, and here you guys are together. Was it easy for you to get on board, Hannah? Did you already know about this stuff?

So. Actually, no. When he first presented it to me, I was like, I know how to save money. I'm making my own money. I'm an adult. Whatever. But he broke it down into such a fun way, especially following a lot of your practices. After reading the book, we even incorporate now we have monthly budget meetings that we followed the budget document that's on your website, I believe.

Oh, yeah. Very good. Old school. I like it. Very well done. Congratulations. Yeah.

We actually were able to cash flow her entire master's degree.

Oh, wow.

Which was excellent. She didn't believe it was possible, but I broke down the numbers, like, hey.

We can do this. What's your master's in?

My master's is in public relations. And that helped me actually get a big bump in my pay.

I bet. So it already roi. Very good. Yeah. That's called smart education. I like smart education. There's too much dumb education out there. That's smart.

Well, you actually want to hang the degree up when it's paid for. When you got the student loans attached to it, you're like, I'm going to hide that in a closet.

Well, they can repo it. So you don't want them doing that. Way to go, guys. Yeah. How's it feel to be free?

Amazing.

Like a literal weight off your shoulders. I didn't think the psychological benefit was going to be as powerful as it has been, but it's been phenomenal. One of the things, and I would say this is probably the hardest thing we did, but shortly after getting married last January, we took all of our honeymoon money, all twelve, $13,000 and threw it at debt and had to postpone our trip to Italy. But we were finally able to take it earlier.

This right. Yay. Very good. Well done. Nice honeymoon.

Great photos, too, if you're watching on YouTube. Fantastic.

The Italy photos. That's the perfect. Yeah, the coliseum.

That's some good delayed gratification right there. You guys still took the know. A lot of people think, well, Dave doesn't want me to live my life. And we go, no, you can live it two years from now with freedom, where you're not paying for that trip six months later. You guys did exactly that.

Yeah.

And unfortunately, also this year, I was laid off in February. And fortunately, because we were smart and had a cushion between us and life, it was a lot easier to go through that and not freak out like.

We would have a few years ago.

Yes. Every $5 out of the nine that we make in monthly income went to our savings. Just going to the debt at first. And then after we finally got debt free, it has now just become a nice nest egg as our six month emergency fund.

Yeah. How old are you?

229 and 28.

All right. Not even 30 years old. You paid off $110,000 in debt in four years of that. You've been married two years, and you're working it separately before that. Well done. What do you tell people? The key to getting out of debt is because you're a blazing example. You did it. I'm so proud of you all. Thanks, Dave.

Well, I would say 100% it is worth it. Unfortunately, the systems in place can kind of make you feel like it's hopeless in America. But you can absolutely do it, especially speaking to the younger audience and talking to the people in their twenty s and thirty s. You can do it. Just perseverance, dedication, staying consistent, and being honest with yourself.

And I think a biggest thing, too, is simplifying it and communicating it. It's so scary to talk about finances if you don't know what you're talking about. But with tools like your money, total money book, every dollar. We use that all the time. It just made it so much easier. And we were able to just really focus, dig our heels in and get to our goals.

And I'm so happy we've done it now in our mid to late twenty s and we never have to look back and listen.

There were moments where we're just putting money towards this debt and it's just like, this is never going to end. I'm sick and tired of throwing my money into this never ending black hole and it was just absolutely worth it. You worked two jobs in the beginning?

Yeah, for almost two years I worked two jobs with like a day off every week just to get ahead.

What was the best money you made? At a side gig at my previous.

Organization, I worked for the airlines and they commissioned bonus checks to us depending on how well we were doing during the flight. So just hustling like that and then just finding something easy to do on the weekends.

Okay. All right, good. Very cool. Way to go, you guys. Thanks. Way to go. What a great job.

I can tell you guys have built these muscles where you're like, any financial goal, we're going to be able to do it because you know how to save, you know how to spend wisely. And that's the most hopeful part of all this. You guys are invincible now.

Yeah.

And honestly, this is four years in the making. It has taken us four dedicated years to be here today.

And did some of your friends, like, think you were Cuckoo?

Friends, family, a lot of cuckoos out there.

Yeah.

Some people are like, don't worry, just.

Pay the minimums on the don't worry, stay in debt. It'll all work out. No, it won't. This is called grown up stuff. Yeah. Way to go, you guys. It's so good. That's so good. So now you get to do the Toby Keith thing. How you like me now, right? Oh, my gosh, I love that song.

We just hope we can inspire other people out there to do this because I promise you it's worth it.

You just did, my brother. Well done. Very well done. Hey, we've got a copy of the total money makeover for you to give away in the live and give box. And of course, the baby steps millionaires book because that's their next step in this journey. You're going to be there for sure. And a financial peace university membership. So enjoy those or give them away as our gift. Thanks for coming all the way up from Florida to do your debt free scream. You two are incredible. Brandon and Hannah, Orlando, Florida area 110,000 paid off in four years, making 48 to 143 they did it before. They're 30. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

All right. Three, two, one.

We're debt free.

Yeah. That's how it's done right there. Woo. Love it. This is the Ramsey show.

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George Campbell Ramsay personality is my co host today. Open phones at triple 825-5225 our question of the day comes from our friends at neighborly, your hub for home services. For over 40 years, neighborly has done an exclusive network of trained local service providers backed by the neighborly done right promise. So if it's not done right, neighborly will make it right. Visit neighborly.com ramsay and you can learn more.

Today's question comes from Peter in Michigan. Hey, Dave. I just turned 22 and have a credit score of 730.

Oh, God.

I'm looking to buy my first home within the next year, but the interest rate on homes are through the roof, although I see that they are coming down a little bit. Should I hold out for lower rates? Go ahead and lock it in. Thank you.

Aha.

The classic conundrum. Should I time the real estate interest rate market? It's kind of like timing the stock market. The best timing to invest in the stock market is when you have the money to invest versus trying to figure out if it's going to go down or up.

Exactly.

So I would buy when he's ready to buy.

Yeah. Marry the house, date the rate. So buy the house and refinance when rates come down. You're not married to the Mortgage, you're married to the house. So figure out the right house at the right time, the right girl at the right time, get married and date the rate. The rate is temporary. It's not a permanent decision. So no one says you have to keep a mortgage. So matter of fact, I have a 0% mortgage. I don't have one. I haven't had one in years. Not a percent, not even a mortgage. So there you go. And that's a possibility, too, in your future. So I will tell you this, Peter. You're 22. You got plenty of time. There's no problem. You'll get there. But whenever you're ready to buy, marry the house and date the rate, you can refinance. You can refinance. Any of you that are sitting there right now waiting on house prices to come down, you're going to be waiting. You're going to be waiting. There's some prices that have adjusted, but values have not adjusted. Prices have adjusted because some of these people were trying to get some of these people who were paying too much because everything was in a frenzy.

You remember right after the Fauci pandemic, y'all remember that? Yeah.

It was listed for a bajillion dollars and the market was like, no, we're not paying that.

You were looking for a sucker and the sucker didn't come. So now they dropped their price. But the values have not gone down and they're not going to go down because there's a shortage of housing. Buyers are not out there eating up everything right now, and there's not a lot of inventory. And so it's a really slow market, number one. But it's slow in listings, too. You can't find a property because there's not a lot of inventory. So it's a really weird time to buy, but there's nothing wrong with buying right now. And if you wait two years, price is going to be more. And if you buy now at a higher rate and the rates come down, you just refinance. That's the whole thing. Ashley's with us in Philadelphia. Hi, Ashley. Welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hi, Dave. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

So my boyfriend is receiving a pretty large settlement in the next coming months, and we're kind of debating, we're looking to buy our first home. And obviously, once the right home comes, we'll do that. But he's stuck on paying the house out in full. And I'm wondering if it's better to do a big down payment and get a mortgage on the house.

Why do you want a mortgage?

I don't know. I feel like putting a huge lump of that settlement into a house.

Why do you want a mortgage?

I'm not sure.

Well, you just told me you wanted a mortgage.

What do you think you should do with it?

I just want him to use it as wisely as possible.

It sounds like he wants to avoid debt.

How much is he getting?

Yeah, right around half a million.

Okay, and how much is the house price you're thinking about buying?

We were thinking, like mid three.

Okay. Is the settlement taxed?

No, it's not.

Okay. All right, well, let me send him a warning through you. And you're not going to like this. Okay. There is no we. You're not married.

Exactly. I'm coming into it. Yeah, exactly.

There's a he. It's his money. And so if he buys a house, it goes into his name, not our name. Unless you're married. Are you all getting married?

Eventually. We've been together for six years.

Apparently not. Okay, six years and you hadn't paint or get off the ladder, so you've already figured out what you're doing. But if I'm him, what is his income?

Right around 55, I think.

Okay, so let's pretend for a second. Let's just reverse engineer this so that it'll help you with your heart on understanding where our advice is coming from. Let's pretend that he made $55,000, had $200,000 in the bank, and a paid for $300,000 house. And you walked up to that guy, and you met that guy, he had a paid for $300,000 house, $200,000 in the bank. He makes $55,000 a year. Would you then tell him to go get a mortgage? Because that's wise.

No.

Same thing, though, isn't it? I just did it backward. Yeah, it's the same exact thing. So the only thing that could fall under the heading of wisdom is if it made sense, and I don't think it does and George doesn't think it does. To borrow on your home to do investing. And effectively, if you're going to invest some, let's say he put 100,000 down and instead of paying the other 200 on the house, put it in mutual funds. Okay? Which is kind of what's probably rattling around in the back of your head somewhere, if that makes sense. Then borrowing on the paid for house to do the same thing would also make sense. But by reverse engineering it, it makes you realize, oh, there's risk involved here. I know you can't get into lawsuit details. Was he injured? For the settlement, he was, yeah. Okay. All right. Is he okay?

Yeah, he's great now.

He can still work.

No permanent damage to his income?

No, it was a miracle heal.

Good. I'm glad for him. And you too. Yeah. So I would tell him to pay cash for his house and set aside an emergency fund and invest the balance long term. And by the way, if you don't have any payments in the world and you make $55,000, you could pay what's the equivalent of a house payment into your investments every month, and that alone will make you a millionaire in just a few years.

Okay.

Does that make sense too?

It does, yeah.

So that's what I would do. Those of you that are shacking up and playing house or whatever you want to call that stuff, be sure that you keep your legal stuff completely separate. And you have to be careful even with your pronouns in this case, not like woke pronouns, but like pronouns, like, you have to get your.

We're buying a house.

We're buying a house. We aren't doing anything. He is. We're getting a settlement. No, he is. If you're married, there's a we. When you're married, you become French we. We. Right. That's how that works. But until you're married, there's not a we legally, I'm talking about. And honestly, Ashley, that also leaves you in a predicament as well, that I don't want you in. I would rather you have the safety in this relationship and the things that you've been pouring into, the economics you've been pouring into this for six years. I'd rather you have the safety of marriage. Marriage represents safety for you, young lady. So just as a guy who's seen all the stuff go bad, because that's all we do, we work with a lot of people who are. Things went bad. I want you to have a better life than this is setting up, because one day he just decides you're not there legally. He didn't have to do anything except tell you to move. He didn't even have to evict you. You don't even have tenants rights. You just move out. You're a squatter.

No equity, nothing.

And that's just. You don't want to play that out for 90 years. You don't want to play that out. I've been married 43 years. You don't want to play that out 43 years and see how that looks. This doesn't age well. It's like cheap wine. It doesn't age well. So that's just me loving you right now, telling you that for you. So you guys do whatever you want to do. You're grown ups, and we love you. Either way, we'll help you all the time. You call us anytime. This is the Ramsey show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Open phones at triple 8825-5225 I'm Dave Ramsay, your host, George Camel. Ramsay, personality, YouTube celebrity, is my co host today. His YouTube show George Camel, just surpassed the first 100,000 subscribers. We got the little YouTube button in.

We got the whole little plaque they send you when you hit 100,000.

Plaquey poo.

Very kind to all the subscribers out there and people watching every week.

The fastest show to go to 100,000 in the Ramsay network on YouTube, did it faster than anybody.

I'm not very fast in life, so it's nice that I beat you all to something.

Dave. Hey, you got there quick.

The team has done an incredible job making this entertaining, fun, and, of course, informative and helpful.

Casey is with us in Amarillo, Texas, to start this hour. Hi, Casey. Welcome to the Ramsey show. Hey, Dave and George. How are you? Better than we deserve, brother. What's up? Well, I'm a little embarrassed, because this is really going to showcase my ignorance of the subject, but I've got a few questions about the national debt. I don't know if you've heard, but we are in debt a little bit. I heard the rumor. Yeah. So I've got three questions for you. Okay. The first one is, who do we owe this $33 trillion to? The second one is, why, as a country, did we borrow it in the first place? And the third one is, is it even possible or logical for our federal government to pay off this debt and operate debt free? Those are great questions. Well, who we owe the money to or whoever bought the treasury bills are called t bills. And the treasury of the United States issues a bond. And if you buy that bond, then that means that if I bought, I don't know, $100,000 treasury bond, that means the United States of America owes me $100,000. If I bought that bond and it pays me a certain interest rate now, I know they're never going to pay the bond, or if they do, they're going to pay it by issuing another one, which is, if it actually ever does come due, that's how they do it.

They'll issue another set to cover the ones that are coming due. But I also know that I can sell that bond at any moment because the credit rating of the United States of America is still strong. Okay. So that's how they finance it. And the danger is when foreign countries or foreign entities of any kind, wealthy corporations in foreign countries, buy up a bunch of that, that means the United States is in debt, say, to China, as an example, deeply in debt to China. It's a little dangerous politically, but it's not like they can call the debt. It's not like they can repo know. It's. But in that sense, it's not dangerous. But it's just kind of creepy. You know what I'm saying? So your second question was. Your third question was, can we ever pay it off? Your second question was what? Why did we go in debt? Well, we went in debt just because, like regular human beings, they spent more than they made. When the revenue coming in from taxes and other things won't cover the expenses of highways and military and $45,000 toilet seats and a billion dollars to this country and $8 billion to that country in supplies, which we do pretty regularly, we give billions and billions and billions away overseas.

When we don't have the income in a year, the amount that we're short revenue is not enough revenue to cover the outgo, the budget. The difference is called the deficit. And the amount that we borrow has gone up every year because we keep spending, not just spending more than we make, but every year spending more than the more than we make, we raise the amount that we're going into debt. So when they say they cut the deficit, all that means is they didn't go over budget quite as much. That's all it means. So it's kind of an oxymoron on words. And then the last question is, can we get rid of it mathematically? We could. I don't think we have the political willpower to do it. Because as soon as you tell your uncle Henry, who gets a subsidy because he runs a dairy farm from the US government, that he's not going to get that subsidy anymore because we're cutting our expenses, then he's not going to vote for that congressman. And that congressman is going to get replaced by a congressman who will spend money like he's a drunken congressman. Right? Yeah. And so people won't.

They don't they. They want to, in theory, a lot of people say, I'd like to balance the budget. I'd like to get the income to at least equal where we're not going further in debt. But to do that would require cutting a lot of things out. And the problem is we're so far in debt now that a big portion of the budget is just the interest on the old debt. Right. And you can't cut that. You got to pay that. So where are you going to cut? You're going to cut giving money in the Middle east, money in the Ukraine, money to this country? Money to that country. There's a lot of people talk about that. Are you going to cut the military? I mean, those people don't get paid anything anyway. And they put their lives on the line for us. I don't know how to do that. It just requires this tremendous. The amount of hate that it would generate because of the number of lives it would touch to cut everything necessary to cut to get it down to balance. I don't know if anybody's got the political capital to pull that off either side.

I think it'd be the last time that party existed. Right now, because people have gotten used to being on the government dole one way or another. The local government in my county is waiting on $14 million right now to build a highway or to redo a road that runs up beside one of my houses. And they've been waiting five years on that $14 million from the federal government, and they won't build the road until the $14 million comes. Meanwhile, the road is a damn, damn goat track. It's awful. And so they're waiting on $14 million from the government instead of the local county handling their own business. Wow. And it's that way everywhere. Waiting to do the bridge repairs until we get the government money. Waiting to do this until you get the government. And so everybody's on the dead gum take, and nobody wants to say no. And saying no is the only way you balance a budget when you do it at home. Casey. When I do it at home, the way I live on, less than I make is I look at the kids and I say, no. I look at my wife, and we look at our budget and we go, we can't go on vacation.

We're broke people. We got to not be broke people before we can go on vacation. We can't afford that car. Those bass are going to get away because I'm not going to have a bass boat with a motor that big because I can't afford to pay for it. This is what normal people do. We say no, but the federal government has absolutely no ability to say no because everybody wants them to say yes. So that's the problem. It's not a math problem. You could actually cut taxes and revenues, go up. Art Laffer proved that under Reagan. It's a statistical fact. It's not a political theory. So it actually worked.

You see Warren Buffett's method to solve this?

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

I said I could end the deficit in five minutes. You just pass a law that says anytime there's a deficit of more than 3% of GDP, all sitting members of Congress are ineligible for reelection. There you go. You lose your job unless you fix this. Yeah, there's one way to do it.

Because you redefine what winning looks like. What does winning look like as a congressman now? Giving everybody free money. The only way you can stay is if you balance the budget. That's a new way of saying what winning looks like. Hanging out with lobbyists, they would learn the new ancient word. The ancient word. No. No. You press your tongue towards the roof of your mouth. You release and let air go by. No.

Hey, Dr. John Deloney here. Look, people always say the holidays are the most wonderful time of the year, but many of y'all know they're not. But for some of us, the holidays, they're great or they're good or they're mayhem. For all of us. You're probably traveling all over the place, talking to family members you didn't ask for, by the way. Shopping, trying to make it to all the parties, most of which you don't even want to go to. And no one will turn off the Christmas music. But inside the chaos, remember, you still have choices, especially the choice to take care of yourself. And taking care of yourself starts with a good night's sleep. And I believe good sleep starts with an amazing mattress. That's why I love Dreamcloud. Mattresses from Dreamcloud have a combination of gel, memory foam, and coil technology that keeps you comfortable all night. And right now, Dreamcloud is running their biggest offer ever exclusively for our listeners. 40% off all mattresses, plus an additional $50 in savings by using promo code John deloney. Visit dreamcloudsleep.com and enter promo code John deloney to get your new mattress and the rest your body desperately needs.

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George Camel is my co host today. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Hey, if you like this show, you can help us out we'd appreciate the help, by the way. We do need all the help we can get around here. Subscribe. Click the subscribe button. Click the follow button. Click the like button. Share the show. Send somebody a link or some of the different podcast venues or platforms, some of the different YouTube things. They have a share button where you can just click it. Share it real easy with somebody. Hey, I like that clip. I like what they're doing there. You're the only marketing we have, so thank you. And you've been sharing it and telling people about it. We know because our numbers are way up. Way up. And we appreciate that because you guys are sharing it and subscribing and doing all the proper things. We appreciate you. That's the way you say thanks here. Otherwise, it's just free. Hey, pretty cool. Elizabeth's in Miami. Hi, Elizabeth. Welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call.

Sure. How can we help?

So let me start with. My dad just passed a couple of months ago.

I'm sorry.

And I help my mom and my sister with their finances. Now, my sister has learning disabilities and I've been following your plan with her for the past six years. We have her debt free. She has like $26,000 in the bank because she's saving up to buy a new car. Not like a new to her car. She has about 29,000 in retirement. Just from her work putting in for her. She makes about 27,000 a year.

Wow. What's the nature of her learning disability?

It's in math, actually. So that's why I do all of her finances for her.

Okay, I'm sorry, I'm not aware of an exclusively math disability. What is this? I don't understand.

It's not very common. Not a lot of people know about it. She just doesn't understand beyond basic addition subtraction.

Okay. That also inhibits her career path, I assume.

Exactly, yes, absolutely.

Okay.

And it inhibits her confidence in applying for a different job. So she has a job she's in now. She's been there for eleven years. She's very happy. She likes the people she works with.

You've got her in a sustainable mode. Way to go. You're a great sister.

Thank you. So, with my dad passing, the situation has arise that my mom, they were married for 50 years and she's uncomfortable living on her own, but she really wants to travel and she doesn't want to leave the house empty. So she came up with the idea that maybe my sister could move in with her because she's only going to be there. She only wants to be there for like three months a year. I really want my mom to live with me, to be honest. So my sister could sell her house and make about $150,000. She has a townhouse. She's got 50,000 left on it and we could sell it for 200. Does it make sense? And there's like a lot, obviously, of nuances in here for her to take that 150 and invest a huge portion into her retirement, because I'm afraid she's not going to have enough. She's 42. She has this 29,000 in retirement and she's got some health issues. And my dad passed from health issues that are genetic. And I'm just worried about taking care of her.

What's your mom's house worth?

$300. And it's paid off. She doesn't owe anything on it.

Right. There's two elements we find from people that build wealth and are able to create a sustainable situation at retirement. Okay? One is a paid for property and one is a nest egg. And so you're being very wise in how you're going at this, isn't she, George? Yeah. I want that for your sister because if she does not own a property going into her retirement years, because she moved into your mom's house and sold hers, she's going to be out of the real estate game.

That's what I was nervous about, too.

Yeah, I'm worried about that because. Okay, let's fast forward. Let's say your sister's life expectancy is better than you fear. And let's say she lives to 70 or 80. Okay? At that point, the number one line item in most people's budget, expense wise, the largest item is housing. Okay? And when you have a paid for property, you have greatly reduced the number one expense item. You've stabilized it. Like for your mom in your mom's situation, she's sitting there in a paid $400,000 house. What's that give her? Stability.

Yes.

Because she doesn't have to worry about a stinking house payment with your dad passing, which might have forced her to sell the house instead of thinking about traveling. I don't know. I don't know what the rest of the nest egg is, but that's the thing. So the paid for house that your mom's sitting on is a beautiful testament to your dad and your mom and how they've managed money. That's a stable thing for your mom going into her golden years. I don't want to take that away from your sister.

Okay. I'm going to throw one more wrench into the situation. My mom is saying she's going to leave the house to both my sister and myself. Could my sister just stay in the house after my mom passes and then that becomes her house?

Yeah. And I'm guessing if your mom's traveling nine months a year, there's some money, too.

She's legitimately going to live with me for six months, and I'm beyond happy about that. And my husband is happy.

That's not travel.

No.

But then she has friends everywhere and they all want her to come.

Okay, so this is not. She's got $2 million in a nest egg and just going to go out and have some fun?

Unfortunately, no.

My question is, does she have 300 in addition to the house?

From what I understand, she's got 175 in investments and then probably 50 in checking. But then she gets pension and Social Security, enough to cover more than her bills.

Is it just you and your sister? Are you the only two siblings?

Yes.

Here's what I'm beating around. I'm trying to figure out the math that's fair to you because you've been a wonderful sister. I'd like for your sister to end up with this house without having to pay you.

No. Honestly, it would bring me so much comfort to know that she's just taken care of. It's okay. And we're in a stable place, my husband and I. We're going to be okay. We've got military retirement. I'm really worried that she's so tight on her money and so tight with her retirement right now. And this would just. I mean, it would be the world changing for her.

Is a relationship part okay with mom? You hesitated.

With my mom is obviously great.

I know you hesitated.

I think it's more an insecurity for my sister to say, I'm moving back in with my mom. And I told her, I was like, it's really, mom is living with you? If she's living there nine months of the year, and my mom only comes in for three months, just basically to visit and say hi. It's really. My mom is gifting her that house, so changing her mentality.

But I understand if you want to make it thorough and legal, you could sit with an estate planner and go ahead and deed the house to your sister with a life estate to your mom, meaning your mom has rights to it. As long as she's alive, she can stay there.

Okay.

And you could put in the write up that your sister is also allowed to occupy the property. And then your sister does own the house.

Okay.

That wouldn't be a bad thing. You could sit with an estate planner and do that under the unified estate tax exemption, she could transfer the title on the property over and not pay a dime on taxes on it. Your sister could sell the house, her house, and dump that money, as you said, into retirement. No house payment. Yeah. Then that starts to work. Unless your mom is going to mess up your sister's progress because she's done so well under your leadership.

Yeah, I just keep coming back to that real estate. I like that she's got skin in the game. I don't want her to lose that by this situation.

If she's going to own this other.

House, then that solves it.

That keeps her in the real estate game. Yeah.

But I would also ask, what does sister want to do?

Yeah, that's part of it. She likes her independence right now is what I heard, too. That's something to deal with. That's a good question.

Even though it's quote unquote her house. I think emotionally, psychologically, and until the deed is changed over financially, it might.

Be good for your sister's state of mind to go ahead and do the Deed with your mom having a life estate.

Make it official, not just a promise.

Yeah. Then this is your house and you're getting your part of the estate now prior to death. And then the rest of the money and stuff will come to you, Elizabeth, at that point, upon death. And it probably won't be 300k is what you're telling me. Probably going to be more in the 200 range, depending on what your mom spends between now and then. Wow. I got to tell you, Elizabeth, that's very noble. You're doing really good stuff there. You're a good person. I'm honored to speak with you. I hope we helped you. This is the Ramsey show. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, is my co host in the lobby of Ramsey solutions on the famous debt free stage. Sean and Glenda are with us. Hey, guys, how are you?

Hey, Dave.

How's it going? Good to have you guys.

Hi, George.

Where do you guys live?

San Antonio, Texas.

Oh, we love San Antonio. Thanks for being with us.

Cool for having us.

How much debt did you pay off? About $297,000. How long did that take? Five and a half years. About 68 months. Wow, good for you. And your range of income during that time? 86,000 to about 212. Wow, cool. Now, what kind of debt was this?

It's our house, Dave.

You paid. Look at weird people.

We are weird.

Very weird people. I love it. Way to go, you guys. What do you all do for a living? I'm a fire inspector at JBSA Lachlan Air force base. Why aren't you on the radio with that voice?

Oh, my God, he does have a sexy voice.

Well, I am on the radio when I have my sexy. I'm on the fire department radio.

And I work logistics for Lacklund Air force base.

Oh, yeah. I'm retired active duty, but I went back as a civil service, same job. Thanks for your service. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. So you paid off your. What's this house worth? $404,000. Way to go. How much in your nest egg? It's going to be $965,000. You mean above the 400? There's 600 or something. Yeah. Yes. So you're right at a million dollars close. About $40,000 short. I just declared it. You're Millionaire. Way to go. Thank you. Baby steps.

Millionaires. Check the stock market in an hour. Maybe you'll be there.

57.

57. And you've got a paid for house?

Yes, sir.

And you're millionaires. Yes. We never owned a house while I was active duty, so that's why it took a little longer to actually say, hey, because I was originally from San Antonio. We both were. Yeah. I mean, I can't believe you waited to your 57 to be rich.

That's horrible. No time like the present. How long have you guys been married?

32 years.

Yes. Way to go. You too. Way to go.

Yeah.

That's so excellent.

Thank you.

Well done. Okay, so what put you on this journey? Five and a half years ago to knock the house out. So when I was deployed to the Middle east, which you just came back from, so it's very hot. Well, it shouldn't have been hot there. No, it wasn't hot this time in the summer. It's bad. When I was there, it was 120 degrees, and there was on the bulletin board for the chapel, a Dave Ramsay financial peace course. I'm like, I didn't hear about you at about that time. Is it air conditioned? That's what we want to chapel. Who cares what the stupid course is? Is it air conditioned? Yes. So it started from there.

And he came, Dave, all fired up about getting out of debt, and I wasn't having, uh oh. I said, I'm not having this foolishness. I'm going shopping because truly I'm the free spirit. He's the nerd, apparently. But what he did was he start back then, it was your cds. And he would put the cds because it actually started in nine that this happened, and we got rid of our consumer debt. But he started playing the cds in the car on the way to work. And I liked that it was biblically based and that you were funny. Okay, I'll take the class.

So she took the class, I took.

It, and we never looked.

Don't like it. But it's Jesus and it's funny.

Yeah, Jesus, and it's funny and loved it. And we never looked back. We hit it straight head on, paid that debt off and moved to San Antonio, built a house.

I think the budget was. Really opened her eyes, too.

Yeah, the budget.

Because that made our standard for never going back into debt again. We cash flowed. Four cars and everything else.

We recently just bought a car. Cash. A new to us car. It's a 2021 Camry, but new to us.

That's a typical millionaire car.

Yeah.

Yes. A two year old Camry. That's about what they drive. We love it, so we just love that. Financial peace university is just comprehensive. It's from beginning to the end.

And we also had the opportunity to help facilitate, to coordinate with coordinating the chaplain at Lackland base.

Oh, good.

Thank you.

Well, your story has got to inspire them. When you get up there and you share all of this, they've got to be like, we're doing whatever they did.

Our first class paid off 100 grand of debt in the nine weeks that we taught the class. So it was a successful class. We were hoping if we could just help one person, that would be enough for us. But 100 grand was paid off in that first class.

Wow.

Yeah. We had a big support system at Lackland.

That's great.

And our kids were a big support system.

Wow. Very cool. And we attend many of your live events, so we love the pep rallies. It's amazing. When we go to your live events. We've been to one in San Antonio, Houston, Louisville, just wherever kind of where you guys are at. Follow you.

Not our first time meeting.

Got a John Deloney picture I was in. Rachel, everybody. Oh, my gosh. Look at you all.

It was awesome.

Way to go, you two. How does it feel to be 100% free?

It's amazing. We actually took the picture. You should have put that one in there of our feet touching the grass. Yeah, but he didn't have a tan on his feet, so it wasn't a good picture.

I'm just saying.

Not a foot model. No, not at all.

That's not my side.

But the grass did feel different.

Well, you guys have different decisions now. Glenda, the spenda out here, you can actually spend with more confidence.

George?

Yes.

We're going on a cruise in January.

Where's the cruise? It's going to go to Honduras and Mexico. Yeah. Very good. That's a good cruise with a good.

Group of friends, too.

So little did you know you're going to have more fun spending on the other side. You're just doing it with cash. More freedom.

That's our standard. Everything's cash now. We're not going to go below that at all. I'm so proud of y'all.

Thank you.

So cool. Thank you, George, is your family wealthy? Did you grow up in wealthy?

No.

So they all looking at you like cross?

Yeah.

Yeah, we're the crazy ones.

Yeah. We're weird.

And we're crazy and weird.

We're trying to bring them along. So a couple of my nephew Sean, he's doing real good.

And your chaplain.

Yeah. Chaplain herbs. Yeah.

He's the one we're coordinating the FPU's class back home with.

Which is great because it makes you want to do it too.

Oh, yeah.

Everybody's watching.

It's contagious.

It is.

It's funny that just working your butt off and living on less than you make is now considered weird. You're not just spending other people's money. How does that work?

You're not irresponsible. You're weird. Exactly. Because that's the opinion we get sometimes. You can't do that. You can't buy a car, cash. I'm like, yeah, well, I did it. Kind of just did for the fourth time.

Argue with.

Yeah, exactly. What do you tell people the secret to getting out of debt is?

Well, I tell them to take FPU.

I like you.

I do. I say, take FPU. The budget. Zero base budget. Not just the budget. Because for years we did a budget. We paid extra on everything. Never got anywhere with that. But doing it your way, the zero based is what did it for us.

Because I reemphasized that in the FPU course. I said, your personal budget is your truth. Your budget's not going to lie to you. Your income, what you put into your budget is what you're going to be able to do. How to get out of debt, how to pay for items, things that pop up, that it's an emergency. That happens, but you're ready for it.

It's part of ready inconvenience. When we had emergency, exactly. Which we had severals, we cash floor helped with funerals.

Yeah. Both of our moms passed away within the last year. So it wasn't a crisis to plan the funeral. We just did it. We didn't have to worry about where are we going to get the money for? Because funerals are a racket if you look at it. We just took care of business, basically because since we had enough funds to take care of it, we didn't have to worry about changes of mind.

We did a roof replacement.

Yeah, roof repair.

Roof repair, cash.

So life's still going to hit you, but you just got to be prepared for it. That's what you go through their class. You get it.

I'm ready to pay off some debt and I don't have any.

Way to go, you two. Hey. We've got the live and give box for you. It's another FPU membership. You'll be able to give that to somebody because you're being such a blessing. Thank you. Total money makeover book and baby steps millionaires book, which you're all of that. We're so proud of you all. Well done. Sean and Glenda. San Antonio, Texas. 297,000 paid off house and everything. That's a $400,000 house and almost 700, 600 some change in the old retirement. So that's making them baby steps millionaires. They did all of this in five and a half years, making 80 to 212. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt free. Yeah. Love it. This is the Ramsey show.

What's up, guys? It's Jade Warshaw. Now, tell me the truth. Are you just watching the expenses rack up and wondering how on earth you're gonna make it through the. Ugh. But I've got the secret ingredient that's gonna help you find some breathing room. It's an every dollar budget, guys. This works because you make a plan for every single dollar and you know exactly where you stand before the month even begins. And you can get started for free. Just ahead to everydollar.com or download the app from the App Store today.

George Campbell Ramsey, personality, is my co host. Cassie's in Denver. Hi, Cassie. How are you doing?

Well, how are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

So my husband and I are on baby step two in the process of paying off our debts. And we discovered before we got married that my husband had about $17,000 in student debt. To kind of explain the situation, his parents agreed when they got divorced to pay for their kids college tuition. So at the start of each semester, my husband's mom would send him cash and his dad would ask that he take out a loan in my husband's name that his dad verbally agreed to pay back at the end of college, basically. So my husband also worked full time, 40 hours. He ended up getting all of his tuition reimbursed at the end of each semester. He would send his mom the cash back and his dad the other half. And he thought he was paying those loans off, but come to find out he spent that money instead. And now my husband still has $17,000 in student loans in his name with his dad's verbal agreement to pay it back.

I think we see why they got a divorce.

Yes, it's one of the many reasons that he's poor with money.

Not that he borrows money, but he steals money from his kids. I mean, what kind of guy is this?

Yeah, and it's kind of hit to the point where we have a four month old, we want to purchase a house soon. The question is, does that debt fall on us or your husband's name? Yeah, exactly. And so do we delay buying the house, pay that off?

Yes. Okay, I'm sorry, I'm guessing your father in law, I mean this guy sounds like a real upstanding twerp. I'm guessing he doesn't have $17,000 to honor his word and pay this off. Right?

He lives paycheck to paycheck and probably will for the rest of his life.

Yeah.

And for some reason we just trusted that he was going to go through.

With this whole deal.

But your husband did all this when he was a kid. He gave your dad, he's a college kid, right?

Yeah. You mean you're 1718. Your parents finances are your finances.

He sent him the money back then. He hasn't sent him money since you all been married, correct?

He sent him the money at the end of each semester long time ago. Being paid off. Yeah.

So what's your household income?

About 116.

How much money do you have right now?

You mean like in savings? So we have our $1,000 emergency fund and then we're just paying off our other debts.

Including you're working a debt snowball?

Yes.

I'm sorry, Cassie. How much other debt have you guys got?

So I have about 12,000 students and then I have 23,000 on a car. I'm actively trying to sell it and get a lesser car and he has about 10,000 on his truck that we've been snowballing.

Okay, well, I'm guessing that this pattern of lack of integrity and irresponsibility has already put a strain on your husband's relationship with his dad. Not counting this here, if you just took this out, it was already a strain.

No, my husband was pretty clueless until I got in the picture. He's of the mindset. It's his dad's responsibility. It was written.

No, you misunderstand me. Your husband's dad is a twerp. Okay. The student loan is not the first time he was a twerp, correct?

Yes.

So I'm guessing that your husband was already strained just because his dad doesn't do the stuff he says he's going to do in general, correct?

Yes. And you're right, he has done this before.

This is not. He says he's going to be there for Christmas. He doesn't come. Or he says he's going to be there at 06:00 he comes at 10:00 because the world revolves around him. It doesn't occur to him that he's supposed to keep his word on anything. Yeah, and that's why they're not married anymore. What I'm pointing out is the student loan is just a one more brick in the wall of this guy's life because it's very seldom that you'd have this as a standalone issue in his life, in father in law's life. So my point is. Yeah, put it in. You owe it. Legally, you're going to have to pay it. It's not going to go away until you all pay it. So put it in your debt. Snowball, I'm so sorry you're having to do that. But then what you all need to do is step back. And if I'm in your shoes, this pisses me off a lot because it delays when you get your house a little. And I would require that if I'm. You require is not the right word. I would want my spouse to say out loud how bad this is and not just act like this is okay.

If your husband act like this is okay, it's going to make you really angry. This is not okay. This is not okay.

Does he still trust that his dad's going to pay this? I don't understand.

Yes, he does. And he did it for his sister as well. And he's actually missed payments on her plan, so her credit got really messed up from it.

There's nothing in the entire story that indicates he's ever going to pay this.

Yeah.

And so your husband owning that is going to help you relationally with your husband and help you emotionally, if I'm in your shoes, this is me. Anyway, it's going to help me. If this is my wife. And she came in, she goes, look, this is awful, I'm so sorry. We got to pay this and it's wrong and he's not going to do it. I wish he would do it. He's just not that guy. He's the guy that doesn't do what he says he's going to do. He's that guy. And so that's for you and your husband, because there's nothing either one of you all are going to change the twerp. The twerp is just a twerp. He just is. I mean, he's just over there and you're not going to change him. And no amount of angry is going to make. There's no justice in this story. Justice will not be done in this story, this side of heaven. Right? Because justice would be. The old man paid the bill, right? But nobody within the earshot of our microphones right now, 30 million people listening to this call, none of them think he's going to pay the bill.

Your husband's the only one. So he needs to own that for the sake of your all's relationships, is what I'm saying. Does that make sense to you?

Yes, it does.

I'm not asking him to disown his father or never speak to him again. I'm not suggesting that there's not molestation or something that's occurred here. There's nothing like that. This is just. The old man didn't keep his word. Well, yeah, that happens a lot, I'm afraid. The old lady didn't keep her word. That happens a lot, I'm afraid. But you can love him. He's just that guy over there and I just love him. But I'm certainly not going to do any business with this guy ever again.

Right.

Not going to trust him with any money, not going to send any money to him. You're $17,000 in the hole to me. Let's just start the conversation there. Yeah.

So the reality is you guys are in 62,000 of debt. Your debt, you make 116. And this is a solvable problem, but it's going to delay your home purchase.

By a few years, not even maybe.

18 months, is what it's going to take to get rid of all this debt. Unless you sell the car, it will happen even sooner.

You're going to get there. You're going to get there.

But it's like you got scammed is what it feels like I got scammed. I'm out the money, and I still.

Didn'T just get scammed. I got scammed by my dad. Yeah. Oh, my God.

The person who's supposed to love me.

Very one that's supposed to not. It's like these parents that steal their kids identity. It's a certain level of scum. It's a whole nother level of scum. When you steal your own kid's identity and you go open accounts in your kid's name. Oh, my God. This guy didn't do that. But he's in the same know, and it's just. Oh, I'm so sorry. But the problem is, when we get into these things, you get right down to the facts. The facts are, Cassie, that your husband has a student loan in his name, and no one's going to pay it if y'all don't. So you're in debt, so you got to clean it up. That's the facts. But the emotion around the facts is just nasty.

Well, and the whole situation from the beginning just sounded complicated and sketchy. They was like, well, you take that down, your name, and I'll get you.

Yeah, once you say that right there, you can see what's coming.

If dad's not willing to take out the loan for himself, he wasn't willing to take on the risk, and he was not willing to pay. Well, yeah, he didn't have the money, and he doesn't now. He blew it somehow.

And mom's over here handing cash, and he's handing her cash back.

Oh, my God.

And, yeah, you could tell what happened in that marriage. That's just awful. Yeah. Integrity shows up in everything, and it always shows up as a pattern, not a singular event. And that's what you're looking for. That's why I was saying that about.

It wasn't the first time, and it won't be the last.

No, it's not going to be the last time. He doesn't keep his word on something. That's the problem. Stinks. Ouch. Ouch. Some people's parents. This is the Ramsey show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsey show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. The phone number here is triple 8825-5225 YouTube sensation George Campbell is my co host today. Ramsay personality. He's also the co host of the smart Money Happy Hour. And we appreciate you guys joining us today. Open phones. Merry Christmas to you. Thanks for hanging out. And, George, you and Rachel got my wife to do something I can't get her to do.

What's that?

Go on a podcast.

We got there first.

I mean, she did this show 30 years ago, one time when there were four people listening to it.

Oh, my goodness.

But after that, she won't come back on. Yeah.

It was the honor of a lifetime for Sharon Ramsay to agree to do smart money happy hour. I cornered her at last year's Christmas party, and she's a big fan of the podcast. And I said, well, Sharon, you should be on it. And she said, I'll do it. And that was it.

And then you all sent her all the positive comments from YouTube. None of the negatives.

Well, there was.

And so now she thinks she's a star.

There was weirdly only positive comments, Dave, even in the YouTube comments section, which is generally a cesspool, everybody's like, we love Sharon. She needs to be a third co host. She's America's sweetheart.

Wow. So she's a star.

They love her. Sharon, if you're listening, which you're not listening to this show, you're busy listening to smart money happy hour, so they won't have to worry about her head getting too big. But it was a great episode, so I encourage you guys, go check out the smart money happy hour episode featuring the one and only Sharon Ramsey.

Courtney's in Canada. Hi, Courtney. Welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hi, Dave and George. Can you hear me all right?

We can. How are you?

Oh, I'm doing all right. I am so honored to talk to you guys. I'm very excited.

We're glad to have you. How can we help?

I have a question. I'll tell you my question. I'll give you a little bit of background. So I am wondering what I should do with my rental property income. I moved in with my fiance, and so my house was empty. I tried to sell it. I was on the market for about a year, and no luck. So I decided for the winter season to get a renter. And so now I have this extra income from a renter, and I'm just wondering if I should put it towards. I'm in, baby step two. I'm wondering if I should be throwing it towards my debt snowball or if I should be saving a portion of that in case, worst case scenario. And I have to do repairs on the house.

Yes.

A little bit of both.

Yeah.

You need an emergency fund for the house, because as a landlord, one of the things you're going to discover is owning real estate is not cheap. And so you're going to have to have some, what we would in business, we'd call it retained earnings in Ramsey talk. We'd call it an emergency fund. Right. Where you've got some money set aside so when the water heater goes out, you've got to fix it. You got a tenant?

Yeah.

So if you have zero money and something breaks over there, you're screwed. Right?

Yeah. And I have a very good income. I'm just obviously.

What is your very good income?

I make about 150.

That's nice. Good for you. I still would set aside. What's your rent on this place? Income?

I charge 2000 a month, and it cost me 1850.

Okay. It costs you 1850.

Well, my mortgage is 1850 a month, and I'm charging my tenant $2,000.

So this is a money making scheme of $1,800.

It's $150 we're discussing here.

Yes. The market is. It's a very small town.

I know. I don't think $150 is going to change your life either way here. What really is going to change your life? You get this property sold. And I sure hope you're married by then. When are you getting married?

June 7, 2025. We are working separately on our debt, and we are paying. We're cash flowing the weding. So we decided to give it a year and a half.

It's going to take you a year and a half to cash flow a wedding.

Well, to get rid of our debt and then cash flow our wedding, we.

Both scale down the wedding and just get the wedding knocked out and be married and then knock this debt out together.

I mean, we could.

With your very good income.

Yes, we could do that.

I don't know if the world's going to be around in 2025. I don't want to be married to this guy.

I guess that's silly, because we both know we're going to spend the rest of our lives together, and we want a really nice wedding. It's nothing crazy. It's average. It's 20,000. So we just thought, like, if we get all our money in order first, and then we can save, I plan to be debt free by April or May and then get some time to plan and all that stuff.

Okay. Sell your house as soon as possible, and if I woke up in your shoes, you can do whatever you want to do. You're grown people. Okay? But having lived and sat with people where things didn't turn out like they thought they were going to, if I were in your all shoes, I would put my debt snowballs on hold temporarily. What does your fiance make?

He makes about 150 to 160.

Okay, so you have $300,000 you're playing with, stop everything and put 20 grand together and go get married now, like March.

Okay.

That's what I would do. You could put a wedding together by March and go get married and then take your $300,000 income and clean up your debt. We don't tell people that they should be debt free before getting married, but they should be in agreement about doing that before, after, during, whatever. You should be in agreement about your money, but you don't have to be debt free to prove it to each other. And you're taking a lot of risk here that you don't even realize you're taking. Let's say you sell this house and then something goes sideways. Yeah, you got a mess on your hands, kiddo. So, yeah, you guys need to decide what you're going to do, and let's go ahead and get things in the right order here, and you do whatever you want to do. But that's what I would do if I woke up in your shoes, knowing that I know I'm not waiting two and a half years to get married to do this. I'm with George on this. I'm going to put it together. I would put the debt snowball on hold temporarily quickly. I mean, you could, what, two months?

You get 20 grand? Yeah.

With 300 grand, they only need to put in ten grand each. And this thing's done. Yeah, that's a paycheck.

It's really not hard. And then let's get rid of this house, because this house is a burden as soon as you're married. So, yeah, march, the house goes on the market right after we get married. If I woke up in your shoes, that's what I want to know, why.

I didn't sell for a whole year. That part is interesting.

She said, it's a rural area, not a lot of market. So she wasn't able to rent it, though, for $2,000. So it's an interesting thing. That's tough.

But, yeah, some of these rentals, Dave, we get the call in, we always ask them, well, how much are you making? Well, after the mortgage, we make about $100 a month, and I go for one, $200 a year. I'd rather just go do a side hustle.

No, that's a lot of risk.

That's a whole lot of risk. And that's if everything goes perfectly and.

It never goes perfectly. It's called rental property. I mean, it just doesn't go perfectly. Something's always busted. People don't pay. I mean, stuff is always.

And they don't treat it like their own house.

No, it's a thing, man. And so, yeah, the longer you leave a renter in there, the harder you're going to be. Just get rid of this property without spending some more money on it. I really think I would do those things. You do whatever you want to do, but you guys have got great potential, and you're dragging this stuff out to your own peril.

Putting your life on hold for this. $150 a month. Not worth it.

Yeah, exactly. This is the Ramsay show.

Don't you wish school had a life lessons 101 class where they taught things like how to not be broke? Same here. But when I learned there's a toxic money system designed to keep us broke, I found a better way. And so can you. In my new book, breaking free from broke, you'll learn to avoid sneaky money traps and start building real wealth. Preorder your copy of breaking free from broke today for just $20 and get $100 in free bonus items. Go to ramsaysolutions.com store to get your copy. That's ramsaysolutions.com slash store.

George Campbell Ramsey personality, is my co host today in the lobby of Ramsey solutions on the debt free stage. Kevin and Ginger are with us. Hey, guys. How are you?

Great complaining.

Dave, welcome. Good to have you. Where do you guys live?

Cleveland, Ohio.

Fun. Welcome to Nashville. How much debt have you paid?

So we paid off $120,000.

Cool. How long did that take?

About 28 months.

Good for you. And your range of income during that time?

So it was 78,000. And then all the way up till 138 thousand.

Cool. What do you all do for a living?

So I'm an accountant, and then I do cybersecurity as well.

Good.

And I'm also an accountant, and I do auditing.

Wow. Great careers. Way to go, guys. Thanks. So what kind of debt was the 120,000?

So we paid off our house.

A couple of weirdos. Yeah. I love it. What's the house worth?

The last time I checked, it was 220.

Wow. 220 in Cleveland, Ohio?

Yes.

And how old are you two?

I'm 28. And Kevin's?

I'm 30.

28, did you say? Yes, 28 and 30. And you have a paid for house worth a quarter million dollars. I love it. Way to go, you two. Thank you. So how long you been married?

Three years.

Okay. So right after you got married, you look at this and go, this is doable. We're a couple of accountants. We can do math.

We can pay this house 100%.

We can pay this house off. So how did you get connected to Ramsay?

So my mother in law was like, hey, there's this guy, this old guy, kind of like your grandpa.

I know. That's what she said. How old is she? Blame it on the mother in law.

She's 62. But no, she was like, I know you're really attached to your grandpa, and he's kind of like him, so you should look at him and kind of be guided with what he's going to say. So I'm like, all right. So I got a couple YouTube videos. I'm like, man, this guy does finance super simple, and everybody can understand it. So I'm just like, I'm going to go full on, just gazelle intense on all any kind of debt. So that's pretty much the whole thing.

So, Ginger, you're like, my mother. What did she do?

I'd be like, you keep sending them YouTube links. What are you doing?

Love it.

So were you on board, Ginger? Did this all make sense to you? We're like, all right, sure. That sounds fun. What a cool goal.

Oh, yeah. I was like, let's get this done.

And that's how you do it in 28 months. 20,000. That's impressive. Well, school was always, like, leverage and all that stuff, and fancy trying to time the market and all that stuff. And I'm like, well, or we could just pay off everything and then just not have to worry about anything for the rest of our lives. That's a strategy.

That's a strategy. I'm going with that one.

Yeah, I like that.

I'm going with the peace and calmness. I like this. This is good. Way to go. So your mother in law's got to be happy.

Yes.

Oh, yes. She was, like, the first big cheerleader. She's like, holy crap. You did it.

I love it. Well, congratulations. You. How does it feel to be 30 years old, not have a payment in the world? Great.

Feels pretty good. Feels pretty good. I mean, I know.

What. What's it called?

We both had a goal when we got married. I'm like, all right, we need to do this before we're 30. And I missed it by one month. I missed it by one month. But it was okay. It was okay.

I wouldn't call it a complete, such a way to be a failure. I'm just saying.

Did you have friends that were cheering you guys on? Did they know about this, or was this kind of a private thing. Oh, they thought we were crazy. They were like, you make all this money and you're not getting a Tesla. And I'm like, because I want a Tesla. But I'm like, man, it's just so expensive. There we go. Right? I know, I know. You're in the Tesla all the time. And I'm like, man, I want one of those. But here's what I did, though. I waited till the house was paid off, and then I bought a very used Tesla that didn't hurt my stomach.

Such a thing as a junkie Tesla that's not on fire. George has one. That's it.

It hasn't burned down yet, Dave.

Yeah.

Exciting.

Yeah.

A lot of our friends got, like, new appliances and new stuff for our housing, and they always are up scaling their lifestyle. And then here's us with our 2010 Ford Escape. Just like, it's good, but it's not great. But we just thought, well, if we're just deaf free and have that good journey, it's just, we'll have peace. But you'll be driving like no one else soon, my friend. Exactly. Making 140k with no payments.

So now that you're free, are you two weirdos going to lighten up and go do something cool?

So that segues us.

Great.

So as soon as we promised ourselves that we would buy a luxury hot tub, that I did give an image to them, but a luxury hot tub after we paid off, and we did indeed buy that hot tub.

Touchdown. All right. That's better than a Tesla. It won't catch on fire. I know.

I was like, a Tesla hot tub. I was like, well, I get to relax all day.

I'm telling you, it's a lot better. That's a lot better. It's fireproof. Way to go, man.

Thank you.

Excellent. That's cool. I love it. Good for you guys. You're on track to be multimillionaires. You'll be able to do anything you want to do. You'll be able to be generous with money. You'll be able to change your whole family tree. Pretty incredible. And all because your mother, who's my age, said, there's this old guy that.

Was the most offensive part. I'm like, she's his age.

I know.

I was like, he's not even that bad. But compared to, she was saying, hey, listen, he's not as young and scrapping as Joe.

She was talking about relative to you. I'm not mad. It's funny. It's funny. Hey, thanks, guys. So proud of you all. What do you tell people? The key to getting out of debt is?

Follow a budget. Stick to it. Check in on your budget. Have your cheerleaders with you.

I think you got to make sure that you hold yourself accountable, too. Right. You just got to make sure that if you're with a relationship or a partner, they make sure that you're accountable, and they're accountable, too. But if you're saying.

I got a feeling both of you guys were pretty dialed in from there. Like, anybody was kicking and screaming. Yeah.

When we went to marriage counseling, because we did that also, my mother in law said, you should do that. So I'm like, okay. When we went to marriage counseling, they did, like, this test or whatever. I don't know. And then for the finance section, it was literally. I couldn't even believe it.

We were in opposite rooms 100%.

We were 100% aligned with that. I was like, what?

That is Les Parrots test.

Oh, that's right.

Yeah. The simbas. Simbas.

Yeah.

That's a great.

Save your marriage before it starts.

Exactly. That's a great test. Wow.

That's what happens when two finance nerds come together and they're actually aligned. Look at what you guys can accomplish.

What happens is they're going to be so rich. It's so cool. Way to go, you two. Well done. Hey, we've got the live and give box for you. It has in it the baby steps millionaires book, which is where you're going for sure. The total money makeover book. You've got that memorized. And financial peace University membership to give to one of your doubting friends. And that's right. You can get them going in the right direction now. So this is stuff for you to live and stuff for you to give our way of saying thanks for coming down from Cleveland. Let us celebrate with you. We're proud of you. We're proud of your mother in law. We're proud of everybody. Way to go, you guys. You're in such great shape. Pretty incredible. Thank you so much.

But I love it.

Well played, Kevin and Ginger. Cleveland, Ohio. 120,000 paid off in 28 months. House and everything. Not even 30 did it in. Making 78 to 138. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream.

Three, two, one.

We're debt free. Yeah. Love it. Way to go, you guys. Way to go.

That's impressive. What I love is that 28 months of sacrifice is what it took. And the next 28 years are drastically different.

38, 48 years.

And most people would rather just live in mediocrity for 28 years and not do this. That's what's crazy to me. They'll just sort of stumble through life and wake up 28 months from now going, yeah, we're still broke, still got the same money stress. But if you're just willing to sacrifice for this short period of time, this is a blip in the scale of your life changes.

Know, we had my old friend Art Williams speak at entree leadership, and he used to say, you're going to pay a price, period. Everyone is going to pay a price. You're going to pay a price now living like no one else, like they did, so that later you can live and give like no one else. Or you're going to pay a price of living a whole life.

Like you said, the money fights of mediocrity problems, never building wealth.

A whole life of mediocrity, a whole life of financial stress. You'll be normal. God help you. Don't be normal. People pay. That's why when someone does this, we yell, hey, weirdo. Because it's weird to pay off your house. It's weird to be a grown up and live on less than you make. It's weird. Normal is broke, stressed out, freaked out. Number one cause of divorce in North America today, money fights, money problems. That's normal. You don't want to be normal. Normal sucks. This is the Ramsey show. All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're someone you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you@ramseysolutions.com. Slash agent. Ramsaysolutions.com slash agent. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co host today. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for doing this. I've been doing this radio show, taking calls.

For those of you listening on podcast or watching on YouTube, this started with and is still a talk radio show. It's on 680 radio stations, the second largest talk radio show in America. That's how this whole thing started. Been doing it for over 30 years now. And during that 30 years, I've taken some wild calls, some funny calls, some sad calls. We've taken calls. But what we don't do a good job of here because it's just not the format. It's not. What we're here for is we don't ever get the opportunity very often to follow up and go back and say, did you do what I told you to do? Were you able to turn it around? Did it turn out okay? How'd this work out? Did you follow the advice? Was the advice good? Were we able to help you? We don't ever follow up and find out later. Sometimes we hear a little bit of that with the debt free scream, George.

But where are they now?

Yeah, but it's kind of where are they now? Stuff. We just help you and you go on your way and your friends know what happened. Your family knows what happened in some cases, but we don't bring you back on here and do that. So we're going to change that today because on August 1, we took a call from Sarah and she was in a pickle. We've got an edited, quick version of the call just to give you an idea, and then we'll recap it. So James is going to fire that. Let's hear it.

I'm kind of in a financial crisis and I'm not really sure what to do. My house is in the process of being foreclosed on.

Oh, my.

And I don't know if I should just throw in the towel or fight. I lost my husband four years ago and we've been surviving off the Social Security and insurance payments.

What happened?

He was working for a roofing company and he fell through a skylight working on a roof 30ft.

Oh, my. I'm so sorry.

And he suffered a cerebral hemorrhage.

And the insurance company that was workers comp or liability insurance for the employer, says they're not liable.

Yeah, they filed an appeal.

You have an attorney?

I have one through workman's comp. And they have denied the appeal and restarted my payments. But that put me in a place where I got behind. Really behind. And then by the time I got a job, I was drowning.

Yeah. You are not getting foreclosed on. Breathe. I know how to stop. I mean, I know this is my fault. It's not your fault. No, it's not your fault. Life has happened to you. You've had a tragedy, honey. So you're okay now? Do we have some problems that we need to address? Yes. Okay. We do. But you're not going to lose this house. I'm 100% sure of it. Okay.

My car got repoed last month.

Okay. Do you have a car at all?

No.

Okay. All right. And so you don't have anybody around you and family and things? Do you.

I lost my father six months before I lost my husband.

Okay. How many kids you got?

Four.

So here's what we're going to do, okay? We're going to wrap our arms around you and make sure you're okay, and we're going to put a bunch of people in your life, and you're going to follow the instructions of these people, and we're going to save your house, and we're going to get you back up on your feet and get you a car and get you going again. Okay?

Okay.

Thank you. We've got ramsey counselors right here in your town. We're in your town, and we'll use one of our on staff people to take care of you. Okay? Her name is Lisa, and Austin's going to hook you up with her, and she's going to get in touch with the mortgage company. And this is taken care of. We're going to take care of it. So that's a quick grasp of what the call was. A little longer than that. But her husband passed away at 36 years old, as she said, in a roofing accident, and the insurance company quit paying the payment. She only owed $64,000 on the house is worth $375,000. It was 45 days from foreclosure when she called on August the first. That's a lot of equity. I mean, she had a $300,000 worth of equity that she was going to lose on that foreclosure. She'd just gotten a job making about $20 an hour. She was five months behind on a $600 house payment. $3,000. No car, because, like she said, her car got repoed. No family around her except her four kids, which are 2017, eight and six wasn't plugged into her church in her community.

And we sat her down with our top counselor, the lady that runs our whole counseling area, Lisa Barber. And Lisa stepped in and began to guide everything through this situation, because we deal with this stuff every day, and we knew exactly how to pull this off. Well, what happened in the meantime was God showed up. Miraculously, a roofing company in the area heard this and said, well, that's not okay. And they wrote the check, and Lisa got with the mortgage company and caught the payments up. Stop the foreclosure, the $3,000 or whatever it was, to get the 4000 with legal fees, whatever it was, to get the house caught up. And so the house is not in foreclosure. Like I told her, she's not going to lose that house. Not for three grand. My God. Not going to happen. So this other company heard the story and stepped in and was generous. And another guy that listens to the show all the time in her area that's been a fan for years, purchased a car and handed her the keys. So she got a good used car, got her house current. Lisa was able to sit down with her, and with the insurance payments reactivated and the budget going, she's able to get a hold on, know this turned around.

So we've got Sarah on the line. Let's bring her up and check on her now. Sarah, how are you?

Hey, Dave. How are you?

I'm doing great. You sound a little different than the last time I talked to you.

I do. I feel different.

I got to tell you, Lisa Barber is a huge Sarah fan. All she can tell me over and over and over again is how tough you are and how resilient you are and how you can fight through anything.

I don't think I would make it without Lisa. She is a godsend.

None of us would. That's why we have a Lisa. Yeah.

She's forever part of my family, like it or not.

So, the house is current. You got a car, the job. How's everything else going?

It's going. I mean, in the beginning, it's taken me some time. I set my expectations for myself a little too high and thought, oh, I can just write it all down, and I'll get it right overnight, and I'm good to go. And I didn't realize how much those behaviors have to be unlearned and that I didn't really think about that in the beginning, and I kept getting it wrong the first couple of months, and I can't make it work, and I don't know what I'm doing wrong. And one day I would be like, okay, I can't do this. I give up. And I'm like, no. There's no room for failure here. We can't do this. We've been severely blessed, immensely favored, and I can't let this happen again. So, I mean, it took me some time. I'm still getting there. We're still turning this ship around, but it's definitely been different. And you guys, I just can't. Thank you. If it wasn't for you guys just taking my call, like, my whole world was saved by so many people.

It's an impressive story of generosity. The people that were inspired by you to come around just. I stand back and watch all that because we didn't write any checks out of Ramsey? We just provided Lisa's help, and the knowledge base does it. But the generosity in the community, and you're the kind of people, people like to that people that got the grit in their belly. You're a lady that's not going to quit. Like you said, it's just not an option.

No, it's not. I mean, these kids need me, and they need me to get it right, and they need me to do it right and teach them right. And I don't have a choice.

Well, we love you. We're here with you. We appreciate you. You're an amazing lady. So you keep it up. And thanks for letting us follow up with you. We're proud of your journey and proud of where it's taken you. Anyway, I'm sorry for how you got here, but proud of where you are.

Our team is cheering you on, and so is America. And we're glad to hear you're doing better.

Amen. This is the Ramsay show, our scripture of the day. James one five. If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given to him. Charlie Munger says, it is remarkable how much long term advantage people like us have gotten by trying to be consistently not stupid instead of trying to be intelligent. George, that's like, right up the alley of your whole YouTube show.

Oh, absolutely.

If you'll just not be stupid, you have a marketplace advantage.

Absolutely. And Charlie Munger, rest his soul, passed away recently. But, man, that advice is timeless. So I'm still using it today. Just trying to help people avoid the stupid.

Those clips of him and Warren Buffett together sitting and talking hilarious, are fabulous.

They're so brilliant and they have so much.

They're just. Well, they're dry. It's like two old man Muppets.

That's what it reminds me of.

It's pretty funny, the two guys in the balcony, but with a lot more wisdom.

Statler and Waldorf.

Yeah, a lot more wisdom than a they just don't give. That's classic. Old men don't give a rip.

I can't wait to get there. Let me know how it is.

Dave, when you're there, don't care what you think. I've been there since I was a young guy. I don't care what you think. It's kind of lost the need for that.

Started it early.

Max is in Boston. Hey, Max. Welcome to the Ramsey show. Thank you for having me. Excited to be here. Just last week blew through total bunny makeover in just like, two days. And it really spoke to me and I've realized that I have tracked all my spending for the last almost nine months, since the beginning of March. I have absolutely no idea how to just go about the right behaviors. Like, I see it and I feel like I'm not saving enough money that I need to be for my future goals. I know I want to buy an engagement ring for my girlfriend. I know that I want to start doing those next kind of things in life, and I'm just not. I feel like I'm behind, but I feel like I'm not in a terrible spot. Dives on how to navigate money, I guess.

How old are you?

Just turned 30 in October.

Well, the good news is you got plenty of time to reroute this ship. So what is your current financial picture? Do you have much debt?

I have $1,200 with no interest for a mattress I got a couple of years ago. That's it?

That's it. So one 2000 hundred dollars would get you completely debt free. But you're living paycheck to paycheck. Are you making good money? What's your income?

My gross income for this year will be $91,000. Wow. But I'm still. Yeah.

Do you have anything in the bank?

Yeah, I got 1300 in checking, 8500 in savings, 29,000 in a 401. I was very lucky and had a grandma who left some money behind. So I have 72,500 in an investment account and then 3000 some crypto. And so that's what I'm working with.

Well, you got plenty of money.

Yeah.

I still just stress the beauty. You read the total makeover. So let me tell you, those baby steps, they work. As long as you don't think you're unique or special and need to mess with them, it works. And so you already have $1,000. You have the money in savings to pay off the mattress today. Let's get that out of your head. It's living rent free in your head right now.

It is.

So get that out of the picture. Now we can work on a fully funded emergency fund which you could have very quickly making 91,000.

You already have a good start of the investment account. Create the emergency fund.

Yeah, you already have it sitting there.

So you're in baby steps four, five and six. If you move some money around, cash in the crypto, pay off the mattress, build your emergency fund out of the money that you've got at your fingertips. If you can't quite get there on the three to six months. Use a little bit of the investment money and move it in there and go that route. And then you're at baby. Step four, start investing 15% of your income into retirement. Do you own a home yet? No, I rent. Okay. You're thinking about buying a House. I don't think I'll be ready for that for a few years, I think. What does ready mean? Emotionally or financially? Financially. Okay. Why? You make plenty of money? I'm not really saving a ton. I'm paying 1900 in rent. My total living expenses, about 2500.

What's your take home pay?

Take home? I think it's going to be. Read some math. About 58. Seven one eight for this year. So you can save $3,000 a month in one year. That's $36,000. With some of the money you've got from your grandmother, you've got enough for a good down payment in a year. So I should use that on a down payment and not just let it ride investment? Some of it, yeah.

Okay.

The problem is, Max, you're just doing a lot at once and they're all good things. Savings, great. Investing is great. Paying off debt is great. But when you do it with some focus, intensity, like, mattress is gone tomorrow. All right, next up, we got to get the emergency fund. Great, we got that. Let's invest 15%. Then you've got some margin and you have a focus goal. And so beyond the 15%, it's let's get the engagement ring. Let's work on the down payment fund.

The engagement ring. The crypto will do that. Yeah.

Hey, there you go.

It's a good trade.

Good trade.

Fake money for a girl. That's a good trade.

Do you want a wife or do you want some ethereum? That's the call to make here, Max. I'm going to choose the thing that's real and not the thing that some guy made up.

Max, you're on your way. George is right. If you'll take the stuff from the total money makeover and follow it straight through, it'll give you a sense of power because you've got a step by step plan laid out there. It also sounds like you need to probably do a detailed budget and give yourself permission to walk these steps. Somehow it sounds like you don't feel like that this is all possible. It's very possible with the math you gave us. But part of it is you have to start taking the actions based on that. You start to believe that it's possible. And when you start taking those actions pay off the Mattress, get rid of the crypto, get the emergency fund in place, get the ring, then take a year and let's save up the money for down payment during that time. You're probably going to get married. That'd be awesome. Then you got two incomes to save towards a down payment on a house, and you'll be in really good shape at that point. That's where I would take. So Josephine is in Brooklyn. Hi, Josephine. Welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hi, how are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up? I'm in a little limbo here. So I was watching your show off and on at work, but then I was home, working from home this day, and I watching your show where you was talking about old debt. When you go into debt, when you have a debt and you don't pay it off, and they go into collections, and what they do is they pay a penny on the dollar. So I took a payday loan out probably 13 years ago, maybe a little longer. Yeah. And all of that time, never heard. I was working for a company that went out of business. So all the emails and all that got blasted. So I probably owed maybe another $200 on it. And I was waiting for them to contact me. They didn't not make an excuse, so I didn't pay it. So in September of this year, I got a call from a law office saying that that loan now was 14,000 something dollars and they could settle it out of court for about $3,200. So for. The fact is that I'm actually saving for a home and I want to not have any increase on my credit report because I worked hard to build up my credit.

I paid them. And now I'm getting another call back from another law firm saying that what I paid them did not cover the law fees. And now they're asking me for another 27. So you did not get it in writing that 3200 paid the account? I have, what do they call it? Oocr. I have something saying. Yes, that I do have something in writing saying that this settles the account. I do have something. Tell the other law firm to stick it. You have a bill in your hand that says paid in full on an old bad debt for $3,200. You overpaid on that, but you gave them $3,200, and they gave you a piece of paper that says you paid the bill in full. Am I right? Well, no, they sent me. So this is what I did. I sent an email for an OOCR saying that this amount is for the debt. And this settles the debt. Yes, it does say this. Settle the debt. It settles the debt. This is a scam. Just tell them to bite it. Not a chance. I'm giving them a dime. Nope. Good luck with. Yeah. I'm sorry.

People, people, people. Payday lenders. Scum of the earth. Scum of the earth. That puts this hour of the Ramsay show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace. Christ Jesus. Hey, folks. Dave here. You want to hear even more life changing content from Ramsey? Download the Ramsey Network app so you can catch all your favorite shows all in one place. Like the Ramsey show, smart money, happy hour, and the Dr. John Deloney show. You'll get real talk about life, relationships, money, and your career. Plus, the app lets you house by topic, like debt, business, or selling your home. Get the content you want whenever and wherever you want to listen. Download the Ramsey Network app today.