Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life. We're going to help you win with your money. We want you to win in your work, and we want you to win in your relationships. We're here to coach you, encourage you along the way. The phone number is triple-eight, 825-5225. Joining me today is Rachel Cruz, the incomparable, the graceful Rachel Cruz. She's our money expert.

All the adjectives.

I kept it simple. Appreciate it. I don't want to get too long in the list and make it look like flattery. I'm Ken Coleman, and I'm going to help you in the areas of work. How about more income? That bigger shovel to get through the baby steps faster? I want to help you there. We're going to work together to help you. Phoenix, Arizona is where we go. Brandon is joining us there. Brandon, how can we help?

Hey, guys, thank you for taking my call. I really appreciate it. I just found The Baby Steps and The Ramsey Solutions about two months ago. I have to say have been a blessing. I've been listening to you guys on my podcast while I side hustle for Uber. Nice. And then also reading Rachel's book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. I read The Baby Step millionaire book by Dave Kinn-like a day. Wow. That's awesome.

You're binging it all, Brandon.

I'm going all in. It's long overdue.

What's driving it? I love the intensity, but what's driving it?

Yeah. I just retired as a Major League baseball player after nine seasons professionally, two in the Major Leagues. And I've also gone through some hardships just in terms of a relationship. I had an engagement fail back in 2021. Oh, man. Then I also had basically my career just got derailed by injuries the past few years.

Sorry about that. What position did you play?

I was a pitcher and I had three elbow surgeries to Tommy Johnson on their collateral ligament.

Oh, my God.

Yeah. So basically, I'm transitioning. I'm going to church. I'm tiding for the first time ever in my life, which is I'm ashamed of that, just given the amount of money I made as a professional athlete. But that's the reason I'm calling. I know I'm long winded, but how does someone like myself who's transitioning into a new career path deal with financial mistakes in my past and letting go of that shame and guilt that I feel? And then also, too, I've got a little bit of a budget situation that I could really use some.

Advice on. All right, so real quick, I don't want Rachel to dive into this. But do you have any money at all? Because as a pitcher, you probably did well.

Yeah, well, that's the thing is, out of the draft, I was given $300,000 signing bonus. And obviously after taxes, that's a lot less. It turned into $185,000, and I was drafted in 2016. Unfortunately for me, I didn't have parents. They're still in the rat race. They are still in debt. They're in terms of Rachel's book, the type of parents that they didn't talk about money. All I really saw as a kid was they were never enough.

Let me ask you this really quick. Did you sign a contract or was that the only money your initial.

Contract was in? Yeah.

What money do you have right now?

Okay, sorry. You're good. I have $28,000 in my Roth IRA. I have $50,000 in individual brokerage account, and then I have about $45,000 in the MLP 401(k) plan. And then in terms of checking, I've got about $2,000 there. And then I'm working on rebuilding my emergency fund. Unfortunately, I've only got about the basis, baby step one of a thousand bucks.

Are you just ubering? Is that the only income.

You're bringing in? No, I actually just got a job. I won't say the organization, but I accepted a coaching position for a Major League team in the Minor Leagues.

When will you start that?

Yeah, so my first paycheck comes in December 15th. But unfortunately, it's a drastic difference in salary and earnings compared to a player.

What will you make as a Minor League coach?

Yeah, entry level development coach, I'll make 40,000 this year, but they pay for my housing during the season. So really, it's like it.

Do you have any debt, Brandon? Yeah.

So right now, like I said, I dove in with you guys. I was keeping up with the Joneses throughout my career, like I said. And I have a Tesla Model Y that has about an outstanding balance of 42,000. I'm currently listing that on Facebook marketplace and AutoTrader trying to sell it. So I'm underwater there because the value is only about 37, 38. Okay. And then I have a house, which is this is the biggest thing why I'm calling. The house was built in 2021 with $60,000 and earnest money down. After my engagement failed, I went to the builder and asked for the earnest money back. They said no. So I had no choice but to move in. And the mortgage is $3,760 a month, three and a half % interest rate. And then utilities is usually about the.

Total cost of the home. Is that all your debt? Is the car in the house?

Car in the house. And I have like $2,000 in credit cards, but I pay my credit cards off every month to zero. I've never been late with the payment.

So I've never been late, but you have $2,000 on it. So you're going to be paying it in full at the end of December?

Yeah.

Exactly. But your mortgage is too much. Is that what you're getting at, too?

Exactly. So I'm in a situation where it wasn't too much when.

I was a player. Sure. Yeah, and your life has changed, so your living situation will probably change, too. Where will you go for... Well, I guess you don't want to say the city, which is totally fine. Yeah, so what I would do, Brandon, honestly, if I were you, number one, you asked about the shame and the guilt earlier in the show. Here's the hard thing about money, is I could tell you right now, Brandon, I'm a mom, and I'm killing it as a mom this season of life. But I don't have a number to that. Ken could be like, My husband game is out the roof. I'm the best husband ever in the world. There's no number to that. Not saying that. What's sad is that our money, and what's hard, is it has a number. There's a number that follows us around. So as much as, which is very true, that you're present in your future, Brandon, can be a hundred % different. The way you're looking at money and even the stuff you're into content wise is going to help that mindset shift. The thing that sucks is your numbers follow you, right?

I think that it's that reminder, not for it to be shameful, but to say, Hey, I don't ever want to go back there again. And so let me just encourage you, Brandon, you're doing all the right things. You're selling the car. You've got a new job coming up. I would get rid of the credit card. I'd go all the way in on this plan and.

Just see. I'd sell the house if you're moving somewhere else for this organization.

Yeah, because you're going to be... I mean, Sprite Training, I don't know much about baseball, but you're going to be gone a lot of the season anyways. So, Brenda, I would rent somewhere. I would rent a cheap one-bedroom somewhere. You're going to be living somewhere else for months out of the year that they're going to be paying for, which is amazing. So take advantage of that. And yeah, I would sell this house. Again, this house was a dream when your life looked different. You were a baseball player. There was a girl in the picture, and your life doesn't look that way. And so as Dr. John Deloney talks about, What's our reality? What is the reality? And grieve what has been lost because it is sad. The career change and a relationship change. But where you are now, you have to focus on this reality. And this reality is that this house, it's too much for you. It's too much. And it's become a burden.

So I'd sell it. Yeah, I absolutely agree. And hey, you're restarting. You've been through so many injuries. You can do this. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, Dr. John Deloney here. Look, people always say the holidays are the most wonderful time of the year, but many of you all know they're not. But for some of us, the holidays, they're great, or they're good, or they're mayhem for all of us. You're probably traveling all over the place, talking to family members you didn't ask for, by the way, shopping, trying to make it to all the parties, most of which you don't even want to go to, and no one will.

Turn off.

The Christmas music. But inside the chaos, remember, you still have choices, especially the choice to take care of yourself. Taking care of yourself starts with a good night's sleep. I believe good sleep starts with an amazing mattress. That's why I love DreamCloud. Mattresses from DreamCloud have a combination of gel, memory foam, and coil technology that keeps you comfortable all night. Right now, DreamCloud is running their biggest offer ever, exclusively for our listeners. 40% off all mattresses, plus an additional $50 in savings by using promo code John Deloney. Visit dreamcloudsleep. Com and enter promo code John Deloney to get your new mattress and the rest your body desperately needs. That's dreamcloudsleep. Com with code John Deloney. Merry Christmas, everybody, from The Ramsey Show. It's that time of year. I'm like, Why haven't I.

Said that already? I'm so happy. I know. Someone said it earlier on the show in the week when I was hosting, and they said they answer the phone, Merry Christmas. I was like, Thank you.

The a raspy voice you've come to know and love is Rachel Cruz. We're not sure what's going on. She's working on it. She's got the lost and she's working during the break. I'm not contagious. I have.

No.

Fever. She's not sick. No mask. No, she's doing great. I'm doing good. But you may not recognize her voice, but that's Rachel. I feel like I'm a little raspy, so we don't know what's going on. But I'm Ken Coleman. She's Rachel Cruz. This is The Rape Show. We're here to.

Help you win. We had a call earlier this week. I think I was on with John, and we were talking about someone to cash out their 529 that their grandmother gave them. But she wasn't doing it for school purposes. I was telling her not to cash out her 529 because you'd be hit with income tax, 10 % penalty. I was like, But you can roll it over to a Roth IRA because it's been open for more than 15 years. She was like, What? I didn't know that was possible. I was like, It is possible. The Biden administration. I got so excited. Wow. And my.

Voice-.

Just cracked. -went out. Gone. I told Winsor that night, Who knew I was so excited about 529s going over to Roth IRA. I know, I said.

Well, don't get too excitable on the calls today because I feel like your voice is working hard here. I know, I need to like... Here we go. Time for question of the Day brought to you by our great friends at Naverly. The Ramsey Show, question of the Day, of course, always brought to you by Naverly. You have the hub for home services. Soon you're going to have a lot of family over. That's going to make some people start to day drink. But you probably won't have a lot of help preparing for them or cleaning up afterward. You need Molly Maids. Go to neighborly. Com/ramsie to find and schedule a locally-owned Molly Maid. By the way, who doesn't enjoy Molly Maid? I think you'd be hard-pressed to find somebody.

Today's question comes from Mikaela in New Jersey. My husband and I don't agree with...

Oh, no, Ken. I got you. My husband and I don't agree on money. I'm currently pregnant, and I want to be a stay-at-home wife with our son, and my husband wants me to be out in the workforce.ouch. We can't come to agreement, and I need to know.

What I should do. What I.

Should do. Wow. Okay.

I finished it off for you, Ken.

Sorry. No, it's okay. I'm glad you're here on this one because this is not a work question. This is a marriage question, disguised as a work question. They don't agree on money, Rachel. Now she's preggars, right? And naturally wants to be a stay-at-home wife. But the husband is probably freaking out. I'm speaking on behalf of all men. We start to get controlling because we really want to provide, and he's nervous about money. They already don't agree about money. We don't know why, but we've already got tension there. Now she's like, I want to come home and be with the baby. He's like, No. She's saying, We can't come to agreement. What should we do?

Yeah, and that's one of the problems, Ken, that we see a lot. When you don't agree on money with your spouse, it's usually not always just about the money. It's usually because there's a value system difference, right? And that's like the core, right? It's not just, oh, credit card, not. You start to really dig into these issues, and you realize, well, we have different values, and it's coming out as money issues. Right. And that's what I'm interested in this, is I'm like, There's probably a values difference. And it's funny, I have different friends in our lives, and some of the guys will say, No, my wife, she's so smart, she's capable. She used to work and bring in great money. She can. And if the kids are in school all day, why doesn't she? And then I have other friends that are down the other side where they're like, No, I'd rather her be home because everything's taken care of at home. I can go make them... It's just so funny to hear these two.

Different sides of- I always lean the first way. You do? I'm being honest.

I'm going to be transparent. Yeah, with Stacey, you're like, Yeah.

Stacey's got a master's degree. She's made six figures before, and she's doing some part-time stuff now. But we got three teenagers. It's expensive. Got to buy two cars. My default is always that way. I'm always the guy because she'll bring up, Well, there's so much going on. I agree, she is the CEO. Sure. But I go, I'll help with laundry.

Yeah, I'll tag team that stuff so that we can tag too. I'm always like, There's...

First of all, dinner's never on the table anyway. God, love you, Stacey. That's just not how we roll. She's so funny. I'm okay with that. Totally, yes. You know that. I'm not a caveman, you know what I mean? We're not out of the 1950s, sitcom. But I understand that. I tend to go that way, too, because I'm always thinking, Let's max out our possibilities. Right. And that comes from, and the reason I'm owning this is because I believe it comes from my own scarcity thing.

Yes, totally. Do you agree? Yeah, I could totally see that. That's my thing, too, or the value of not being home full-time. I'm not saying that you feel that was Stacey, but some people could.

Say- Let values are in question.

Yeah, right. I know that's not you. I know that's not you. No, I know.

But you're right. You're making a very.

Good point. But I'm just wondering about Mikaela and her husband, if his value is like, No, it is a scarcity mentality, possibly what you were saying, Ken. Let's bring in as much as we possibly can, because why not? And hers is, No, I want to pull back and be with the kids. So again, for me, what do you do? How do you get on the same page with that?

I'd get some counseling and get to the heart of where we disagree on money, and to your point, why we disagree on money. When we get to the bottom of that, these other decisions take care.

Of themselves. Yes, exactly.

It's hard. It's hard. It's really tough. I hate to hear that, especially with a baby on.

The way. Oh, I know. His motherly instinct is kicking.

Triple-8825-5225, Kyle is joining us now in Orlando, Florida. Kyle, how can we help?

Hey, how are you guys doing? Ken and Rachel? No. Love the show. I've been listening for the last couple of months. Thank you. Two weeks ago, Dr. Maloney said something that triggered me and made me think for the last two weeks. I've been trying to call in. I got an inheritance from my father passing away on 27, passed away when I was 20. So I saved that money. My grandmother passed away last year, so I got an inheritance from her as well, and been accumulating this money. I bought a house and I still have in my bank account 90,000 cash liquid in my high yield savings account and 125,000 in my brokerage account that me and my girlfriend, we do discuss going on trips and going away and what to spend money on and what things that we need and what we can hold on for. And I realized something that Dave Maloney said that I'm almost afraid to spend money. I have a decent amount of a nest egg, over $200,000 and all the house can make the payments. And I'm almost like nervous spending money. And even if it's a $2,000 or $3,000 trip, I'm like, how am I going to pay for this?

Even though I'm sitting here with a decent amount. So I wanted to call in because get some insight on how do you deal with those thoughts?

Kyle, are you on a monthly budget?

I am, yes. So everything's paid for. Mortgage is 1,500. I do use credit. I know it's a big thing.

It's not really a- I mean, like a budget, meaning you have your income for the month, all of your expenses from cable, subscriptions, insurance, food, restaurants, groceries. You have it all listed out before the month begins. You know exactly what you're going to spend money on on every single category. Exactly. Usually the answer is no. I'm very impressed if that is true. You really are on that detailed of a budget every month.

If I interviewed people that know you, would they say you're tightwad?

That one tends to move around the gas and the food. Okay. But definitely the main stuff you want to get like the money. Are you a tightwad?

Kyle, real quick. Are you a tightwad? Would people say you're up tight about money? Super frugal?

Yes.

They do. The reason I'm asking that, Rachel, I think you wrote a book called Know Yourself, Know Your Money, and I think it's really wise. It's got to be from his past, yes?

Yeah. I mean, your childhood can dictate a lot of this. How did you grow up, Kyle, with money? Okay.

So I grew up with divorced parents. So my dad was an ex-cop, so he was based on a pension. So he did have a very strict budget. And I think I got a lot of that from him just knowing where every dollar is going to go. Yeah, I'm going out.

Kyle, do you have our every dollar app, by chance?

No, I don't use the Every dollar app. Okay. I have a.

Okay. If you hold on the line, Austin is going to pick up because I want to give you every dollar premium, which will connect to your bank. And this is a budgeting app. So why I'm saying that, Kyle, is because with money, you always want to be doing three things: giving, saving, and spending. All three things. And when one of those is deficient, you don't get the full freedom of what money has. And one of yours, which is spending, not mine, yours, is deficient, Kyle. And so what a detailed budget like every dollar I want you to do it, it's going to help give you permission to spend. And, Kyle, I want you to save every month towards a $3,000 vacation. And when the money hits when you plan it and you have that $3,000, go on that vacation. You almost have to force yourself to spend. But a budget will give you the guardrails and the guidance where it's not questioning, Oh, gosh, is this is okay. It's permission. It's telling you it is okay, so hold on the line. Every dollar premium for you, Kyle. Thanks for the call, Kyle.

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Lane Suite 100, Brentwood, Tennessee, 37027. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me in studio this hour, and we're here for you. We want to help you win with your money. We want you to help you win. We want to help you rather win in your professional life as well as in your relationship life. Those three areas are always tied together. We want to help you win in all those areas. If you're not winning in one of them, it's going to affect the other. We're here to take your calls. We'd love to coach you and cheer you on triple-8-8-2-5-5, 2-2-5, triple-8-8-2-5, 5-2-2-5. Baltimore, Maryland is where we're going next. And that's Brittany. Brittany, how can we help?

Hi, Ken. Hi, Rachel. Thanks for taking the call. Rachel, I hope you feel better there.

Thank you so.

Much.

Brittany.

Of course. I honestly just need quite a little bit of insight here. I am trying to figure out ways to either make more money and save more money. I barely make $30,000 a year. After pretty much all of my bills, I have about 10 bucks left to my name. What are you doing?

What's your job?

I am a medical secretary for a hospital.

Let me ask you this. In your head right now, top of the mind here, what's up the ladder look like for you? If I could just magically wave the pencil around and we bumped you up based on some skill, some experience, what would that look like? Then what would the financial payoff be? What would the new salary be?

Well, targeted right now, at least a good maybe $70,000. I'm not too greedy. I honestly just want to feel like I'm not drowning. I actually took out a loan against my 403(b) to take some IT software testing classes, and I'm actually finishing those up this month, but still I have to put myself out there and look for a job, which could also take months as well.

Well, hold on a second. The mindset there has to be you're already identifying companies and positions that this certification will prepare you for, in other words, qualify you for, and you're starting to make connections now. You have to have the mindset that I'm shaking the tree. I'm just waiting to see what opportunities could be there and maybe waiting on me. Does this program have a placement program with it where they help you get placed?

They do not. They just basically help with your resume and LinkedIn profile, in which I am currently in the internship, but I haven't finished it yet, although I have already started putting my resume out there just to get the ball rolling.

What technology work will you be qualified to do day one? Is it programming? Is it code?

It is actually software testing, quality assurance, engineering. Okay.

And is that where you said a minute ago, I didn't understand you and that's my fault. You were talking about a $70,000 salary. Is that what you've identified as a potential option coming out of this? Yes. Okay, great. I want to turn you over to Rachel on the budgeting side of things because I don't want you to wait to start getting your money. By the way, if you can work two or three extra jobs right now for some additional income, that's going to help what Rachel is going to coach you through. I just want to push you into that. You need to take the bull by the horns here and get after it. So I want you connecting. I'm going to give you a book called The Proximity Principle, okay? That's my gift when we're done here so that you're connecting with people, and it's going to walk you through tactically and practically how you begin to make connections so that opportunity is coming away, because that's going to be huge for you. But income alone isn't going to fix this.

Problem, Rachel. No, it's definitely going to have to be so much of a mindset shift, Brittany, for you, because even talking to you, you're so kind and sweet. But there's a part, though, that I'm like, yes. As Ken was saying, Grab the bull by the horns. There's that aggression, too, that I want in you that I'm sure is there. What's your just... I'm curious, your family dynamic. Are you married? Do you have kids?

I am single, no children. I have a one-bedroom apartment. And honestly, I was thinking about moving in with my dad for maybe two months or a year just to save up some money because I could get a billion, like 30,000 and like- How.

Old are.

You, Brittany?

I'm almost 34. 34. Okay. And what's your debt? What's your car payment, credit cards, all of that?

I have about 4,500 in credit card. Like I said, I took out a loan for my four or three Ds, which is only maybe at 2,100 right now. But probably the second part of my advice meeting is that I actually did something really now that I know is stupid. Last year, I was going through a hard time and actually, long story short, I got taken advantage of by a friend, and it's something I know I shouldn't have done. I put my name down so that she could get an apartment. I basically wanted her an apartment in my name because she was having trouble with her own kids, and I was going through my own heart breaks and things like that, and was feeling really vulnerable. But long story short, she did not pay any of the rent. No, no. That's so sweet. Yeah, I've earned up about $11,000 in debt in my name now.

Okay. And is the $11,000, that's separate than the 4,500 credit card and 2,100? 4.03. Correct. Okay, perfect. How much are you owe in your car?

I don't. My car is paid off.

Okay, that's great. Great news. Okay, so here's the good news. The good news is, Brittany, there's a lot of upside to your income. Right now in this time between now with this career you have and hopefully going forward, which you're getting your training and all of that, which is great. Between now and then, if I were you, Brittany, you could move in with your dad if you want. There's a part of me that I'm like, You're an adult. You can do this. You can do this. There's a sense of dignity there that I think is really, which I think is really important. But I think it's going to be an uncomfortable season, meaning the amount of hours that I would encourage you to work, Brittany, because there's not much expenses to cut. You're living on 30,000. And so there's nothing to really cut there, right? So the income side, though, to me, is huge. I'm like, even if you took four nights a week, Brittany, and said, I'm going to drive Uber three of those nights, I'm going to do Instacart. You do some extra side hustle work, which actually can bring in a good bit.

I mean, some people are seeing two, three thousand dollars on side hustle. So even bringing that stuff in, you're going to be able to... I would pay off your debt smallest to largest. So I'd pay off that 403(b) loan ASAP, get that out of the way. And then the $4,500 credit card debt, I would cut up your credit cards today. I would force yourself to live on what you can. And we talk about the four walls that are really important, Brittany: your food, your shelter, utilities, and transportation. I know I said earlier, as I was talking with you that I wouldn't want to move in with your dad. But listen, if there's a season that you're like, for six months for rent, all of it, if I can cut some stuff because even my four walls are tight, maybe that is an option too.

What is your rent?

My rent is $1300.

Could you get out of that how quickly? Is that a month-to-month or you have to finish out a lease?

I have to finish out a lease. It is up in June, the first of June.

Okay, so six more months.

Yeah, I'm with Rachel on this one. I'm going to say six months from now, if you get after it, I don't think you're going to have to move. I think this is about you going, what must be true for you to make an additional $300 to $500 a week? Now, if you break it down like that, it's not as intimidating. But if you go, Okay, what do I have to do? You can knock that $2,100 loan out very quickly. Next on the list is the $4,500 in credit cards. Honestly, the stupid tax and the $11,000 debt, that's the biggest one. You can actually do this. You've doubled your income over the next six months to eight months on the technology side of things. You start networking and connecting like your life depends on it. You're going to get a good job. Now it's about managing the mistakes that you've made. Go, You know what? I'm not an idiot. I've made a mistake or two or three.

Big deal. Brittany, any savings you have to, I would throw at this debt to get this moving. I think for you- Sell some, too. -having some confidence and some quick wins for you, Brittany, it's possible and it's needed for you. Because once you're out of this debt and you have a fully funded emergency fund, you're a whole new person. There's a level of confidence that you're going to have in yourself knowing that you can do this hard stuff, and you're going to learn from those mistakes, not going back into credit card debt, not being taken advantage of from a quote-unquote friend that screwed you over. All of these things, Brittany, are lessons to learn and do something different the next time, which you will. These numbers are great. I think work and extra is going to be your.

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Welcome.

Back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Colean. I'm joined by my colleague and friend, Rachel Cruz. Merry Christmas to you. Hope you are not stressing out over all the things around Christmas, and it's become about getting, getting, getting, and then the stress is around giving the thing that everybody wants to get. Just remember around this time that it is ultimately about giving and make sure that you don't lose yourself in the music or the moment, as Eminem said once famously. Did you like how I just transitioned right into a little.

Rap from Eminem? Just Eminem. Ken Colman and Eminem.

He would say lose yourself.

He'd say go the eight mile.

Don't lose yourself. Nice. Good reference there. Good reference. Slim Shady. I used to be called Slim Shady. No, I didn't. But I tell you the name. We were just smoking cigarettes and listening to Eminem apparently. I know.

We're going off the range.

Little fun thing. I want to find out next segment, one of your favorite Christmas movies is, and maybe we'll do an object lesson out of it.

I'm taking over- I did on the Rachel Cruz show, the Christmas episode that comes out, we did my top five favorite Christmas movies and the money lessons to learn from them.

Oh, no, this is what I want to do. That's even better. You took my horrible idea and you went- Let's do it. -that's what I want to review.

And you're going.

To love them. Actually, it's going to be really great.

So you're going to have to hang around. What is that? Next segment? Next hour?

Next hour. So you got to hang around for that. All right, let's go to Izzy. By the way. I think my name is very boring. James likes to have fun with it, with the puns, like you were very entertaining. He does those things. But what if my name was Izzy? I just think I would be much cooler. Izzy is cool, and is in Boston. Izzy, how can we help you?

Hi, guys. Thank you for taking my call.

I love your name. Can I tell you that?

I love your name. Thank you very much, Ben. I like yours.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

My question is, I've obtained a bachelor's degree in biology this past summer, and my next step is to try to get into PA school and become an emergency medicine PA. But what I would like some advice with would be, is it okay to take out loans for PA school. If not, what advice do you have for me to pursue this career path and take on as little debt as possible?

Okay, so walk me through what you think the path looks like, maybe the next couple of steps or years, and let's attach some money to that, meaning what it would cost for the education necessary and then maybe what you're making. Can you fill me in on that? I think I can answer the question a little better.

Yeah, of course. Right now, I'm on baby step two, and I have about $1,400 in credit card debt. In student loans, I have about $25,000.

Okay, and that's it?

Yeah, that's it. My car is paid off, but I don't have any other short of debt. Okay, great. But the next steps look like... Right now, I'm searching for schools both within Massachusetts, but also outside. And what will happen is I would start applying to programs in April. Now the thing is that most PA programs do not allow you to work while you're in school because it's so rigorous. But also, I'm in the most competitive state, and also one of the most expensive programs is in Boston. But if I were to move out of state, I would have to take on living expenses. But right now I live with my mother, and I only pay the utility bills, which is about $500 to $600 a month.

What would the PA program cost you then in Massachusetts?

In Massachusetts right now, the programs that I'm looking at, it ranges from $115,000 to $133,000.

What's the path? What's the salary coming right out of PA school?

Coming right out of PA school, especially if I want to work in emergency medicine, which is what I do right now. I'm a nursing assistant in the emergency room. Fresh out of PA school, I would probably… If I move to Mass, the salary varies from where you live in the state. But I think I'd want to work in Mass. It would be about $115,000 to $120,000.

Okay, and what are you making right now?

Right now, in that role? Right now, that's a thing. So in the emergency room, you do not get paid much as a nursing assistant. I make about $15 an hour base pay. So this past summer, what I've done, I love landscaping. So what I did is I opened up my little gig, and I was able to make pretty good money. I'd pay off a good chunk of my debt, but I can't do that in the winter. I'll continue working.

Let me ask you this. I love your hustle, by the way. Love it. All right, I have one more question, and I'm sure Rachel and I are going to weigh in here. Based on your current degree that you just got, what's the best paying gig you can get with that biology degree?

Yeah, so I had a feeling that you guys would ask me this question. The thing is that I haven't thought much after I obtained my biology degree because my plan was always to go straight to school. Sure. And then my cousin, he got me into listening to you guys. I've always seen my mother live paycheck to paycheck, and I don't want that.

We don't want that either.

You got to answer the question.

For me. I never thought beyond.

So you haven't.

Looked at it. Yeah, so you haven't really looked. Which is fair. Totally fair. Yeah, totally fair. Because you're what? Twenty-two, Izzy?

I'm.

24. Twenty-four, okay. I'm sorry. Here's what I want you to think about, Izzy. I want you to think about... Let's split the difference between the 1:15 to 1:30 is what it's going to cost you for a student loan, okay? Let's just say it's 120 for conversation. I want you, you don't have to do it right now, but I want you to reflect sometime today on how long it would take you pay that back. I want you to also think about, if I told you to pay cash, which is what I want you to do, how long would it take you to save up? Could you save up 30 grand a year? Well, at 30 grand a year, it's four years to be able to pay cash, yes? Yes. Or cash flow your way through it. The question is, living with your mom, the cash option is best for you. You do not want that stress. Because even at making 115, coming out of this degree after tax, I want you to run the numbers. What is your after tax situation? I want you to do it almost like a pre-budget. I think you're going to go, Oh, my gosh, I don't want to sign up for that.

I'd rather be patient. Could I save 30 grand a year, which gets me to four years or can I cash flow? If it's going to cost me X amount per year, I'd love to know what that number is per year. Then can I live with my mom? I know PA school is hard, and they don't encourage working, but what is the other option? Being miserable and being in debt?

Yeah, Izzy, I don't know why. It's like the people pleaser in me sometimes that I'm always like, I know our advice is not what you want to hear, so I always hesitate to be like, I'm sorry, Izzy, what you're going to hear you're going to think, Oh, my gosh, Izzy, six months ago before her cousin told her to listen to Ramsey, but I'm so glad we got you because our advice is going to be different. Because normal would just say, Oh, of course, you got to go into debt for PA school. And of course, you need to go right now. You just finished your undergrad. Of course, that's the next step. I mean, it's exactly what your mindset was. And, Zia, I can't tell you how many calls we take on the show of people that have debt, of people that took on this amount of debt, and the stories of even they get married, they meet someone, get married, have a baby, something is wrong, they want to stay home because of health stuff. I mean, life happens. And when you take on debt, you're taking on risk. So what we want to do is eliminate risk from your life because that gives you peace, and it actually gives you money at the end of the day.

And so the most peaceful, wisest route is, and this is what I would do if I were you, I would say, Hey, I'm going to put all this on pause for three years, which means you'll be 27. We talk to 35-year-olds that want to go back to school, right? Oh, yeah. So I'm like, You're early in the game. You have the time. You have the time. And to say, I'm going to go try to find... You're smart, obviously. So I'm going to go try to find a job making 60. Honestly, I don't care what it is. It may not be in the medical field. We're going to just go make it because, Izzy, listen. And if you stay living with your mom, I'm okay with that because you're going to pay off the $26,400 that you owe your credit card debt and your student loans. You can pay that off in the first year. Keep working that job for two years. Save and save and save. You'll have enough to cash flow that first year PA school. Do your landscaping stuff in the summer. You can make a killing on that and just stockpile cash.

And when you go through PA school, you will be writing checks. When you get out of PA school, you're going to make $120,000 and it's all yours, and you're starting that off at 27 years old. It's unbelievable. That's going to be the widest piece of this, Ralph, for you, Azzy. You're awesome. I'm so.

Glad you called. Thank you, Azzy. We believe in you. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your money, life, your work life, and your relationship life. A phone number to jump in on the conversation is triple-eight, 825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, and I'm joined by my good friend, Ramsey personality, Rachel Cruz. We're both a little raspy today. We don't know why. We haven't been yelling at our kids, I promise. But we've got the throat.

Coat going. I know. Are you raspy? You're not.

You don't.

Think I am? I'm about to start laughing.

You're really struggling. I'm good. If her voice falters, I just jump in until she's ready again. It's just how it works.

It's just the weather.

It's the weather. But anyway, we're excited to coach you up. We want to help you win. Jump in, 888-825-5255. Let's go to Mobile, Alabama. Chase is joining us on the line. Chase, how can we help?

Well, Dave, it's a pleasure to talk to you, Ken. I'm a big fan. Rachel, thank you for taking my call.

You bet. Thank you for calling. What's going on?

I'm 25, and I'm trying to get some advice on how I have a adult and proper conversation with my parents about their financial situation. I planned on getting the financial piece of diversity for Christmas, and was hoping that I was able to talk them into just checking it out and giving it a shot because I felt like if they at least gave it a shot, that they would be hooked. But I wanted to do this right with good intentions and love and not make it feel like it was just their kid trying to get involved in their finance.

Have you ever talked to them about their finances before?

It's a delicate topic. Me and my dad talk about finance quite a bit. We get along with it. But my mom and my dad are not on the same page. They haven't been for a long time. They have separate finances, separate bank accounts. They keep everything separate. I was on the fence rather to do it or not. Last night, they got the news that my sister's transmission on her car is about to go out and they don't have an emergency fund. So I felt bad telling them that and seeing their faces when they got that news.

Is your dad, is he more in line with you on what they should be doing?

Yeah, he is the one who actually introduced me to you all when I was a little younger. As Dave would say, he's Dave-ish. He's been on it in the past, but he never stuck.

To it. And I've been there when I was younger. And what's your mom's like, Emma, Chase? Your mom, what's her status?

I think she feels like it's a little controlling, and I understood it when I was a little younger because I was so worried about what was going to be today. I wasn't worried about next year, five years down the line, 10 years down the line. And I'm definitely more coming around to that. But I feel like she's more worried about tomorrow and the end of the week.

Here's the big problem. The problem is they both have different accounts and different philosophies. So you gifting them FPU, I think it's a great thing, but they've got some serious marital issues around money that I'm not sure that you can stick your nose in. And if you could or did, it would make a difference. Rachel, what.

Do you think? Here's what I would say. If you were my friend and we were hanging out, I would say one thing I've learned in life, and I can save you thousands of dollars of therapy for this one, you can't control people. You can't. And as much as you, which is what I've done of like a certain person in my life, I can conjure up some conversation, and I pray the whole way there. And I think this is going to be the thing. I'm going to say the thing, and the light bulb is going to go off, and they're going to turn and it's going to be heroic and great. And I don't need the credit because their life is good. I conjure up this whole thing that if I just say the right thing and have the right conversation, I can help them see X, Y, and Z. And, Chase, I've had to let that go completely. Because is your heart there to help them? Absolutely. But you can't control what they're going to do. And here's another thing, Chase, they're not asking. They're not coming to Chase and saying, Gosh, Chase, I feel like you're just not stressed with money.

What are you doing? Will you show us? So what you're doing is a little bit, which I'm fine with you gifting them FPU. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, but I think your expectations have to be very low. And the role that you play, Chase, is a, Hey, I'm giving you this gift because it's helped me, I'm talking as you, Chase, and I've loved it. And if you guys want to try it out, awesome. Here it is. And you wipe off your hands and you walk away because you can't. That's not the role that you play in life for them. And I hate to say it, I feel like that sounds like, Oh, we're going to just turn our backs or something. And it's not that. It's just the reality of the relationship. So that's what I would say, Chase, go ahead and gift them FPU. I think that's a really kind thing. And you can say from your experience how it's helped you. But besides that, there's nothing that you're going to say or I wouldn't put that pressure on you that this thing you're going to say is going to change them, and/or they're not asking for your advice, and they're grownups.

Now, I would say this, and I think Rachel is absolutely right. She is 100% right. But I would have at least one man to man with my dad because you guys seem to be in alignment. It's like he agrees with it philosophically.

I think his dad.

Knows, though. He does. But I'd say I take- And he's living with the mom. I know, but I take one shot if this were me and my dad, I would go, Dad, I want to support you. I can't do anything about this. You are going to have to lead mom. You are going to have to do something about this. I hate that you're in this situation. I'll support you however I want, but I'm going to tell you, dad, I think this has gone on too long. You guys need to get on the same page. I would challenge my dad, but just once. Just once, I'd go, Dad, this is on you, man.

I know, but he's not asking. That's my thing.

Well, they talk about money. I think they are.

Talking about it. Yeah, but in conversations. How is he coming to you with money, Chase?

Well, we're very into each other. He's making sure that I'm okay with my finances. I'm more worried about him- About him, yeah. -than I thinkHe wants them to be on the same page. That's what I'm hearing. He's made that very clear.

And then that's.

Up to him. There's just some deep rooted trust issues when they had their own.

Bank account. And that is not... Yeah. And I would say, Chase, that's just not your arena to play in. And here's another thing, and I would not triangle. And it's sounding like a triangle situation with your dad and you triangling against your mom, and you don't want to be in that dynamic either. So, Chase, your heart is so good and your intentions are so good, and I get it. And like Ken said, maybe there's one good run at it of just like, Dad, I can't sleep at night unless I say this for my own conscience. Here it is. And then, Chase, I wouldn't. And if your dad brings up conversations with your mom to you, I would draw a boundary there, and say, Dad, not my problem. I'm sorry. I'm not the one to talk to you about it. And I get you are talking money and all of that, but I would just be really careful. I just think as grown children, I just think that those conversations are really important because they can get tangled really quick. I don't want responsibility put on you, Chase, or you're feeling a level of responsibility that is not yours to carry.

I don't know if I'm being too harsh on that or too strict.

No, I think there's a lot of wisdom there. And I don't know if the man up conversation is a good idea now that you've made me... You made me almost... But what I mean is- I convinced Ken. Here's what I think is happening. I think his dad's coming to him, and he's treating him like the counselor. He needs to go to a real counselor. He's coming to the son because he's like, Well, my son did this, and I.

Don't have the cojones to do it myself. There's a.

Natural connection there. I think his dad's terrified of his mom. Oh, boy.

That's probably a good truth.

But, I don't know. It's tough.

Good heart, Chase. You've got a good heart.

Yeah, you're a good man. This is The Ramsey Show. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, it's Dr. John Deloney. This time of year can be great, but the holidays can cause anxiety for a lot of people, especially about giving gifts. Maybe your family makes super thoughtful, handmade things, or they demand you buy really expensive things, or maybe you just like experiencing time together, or you all just pick up random gift cards last minute. No matter how your family does gifting, remember to take care of yourself. Whether it's going easier on yourself during tough moments or treating yourself to a day of rest from everyone and everything, remember to give yourself some love this holiday season. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. Betterhelp is flexible because it's online, so it can fit into your busy holiday schedule. Just fill out a short questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapist anytime for no extra charge. In the season of giving, give yourself what you need with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp. Com/daloney today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P. Com/daloney. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.

I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by Rachel Cruz, and we're here for you this hour. The phone number to jump in is triple-88825-5225, taking your questions about money, about your work and income. I need to get more income. Side hustle, starting something. Can I make a move during the baby steps? Anything related to that? We would love to help you. Triple-888-255-225. Tis the season. I don't know if anybody talks that way anymore, but it.

Certainly works. Oh, Tiz.

The season. Tiz the season, okay. I was afraid you would roll your eyes and go, There's the old.

Man, Ken again. Just the.

Toll-free call. But that's right. Never again. By the way, people were on Instagram going, Yeah, Ken, I'll call the toll-free number from my home phone. I was like, Okay, all right, point made. But I love Christmas. And as I look about the lobby here at Ramsey Solutions, we've got it all decorated. I got trees in my house. I love the Christmas music. So you have a fun little Christmas.

Money lesson. We're going to fight a game. We're going to play. We just made this up on the spot. I love this. Go ahead. I'm going to say a money lesson, explain a money lesson. And Ken is going to try to guess the Christmas movie that that money lesson is from. And all of you on YouTube, play along. I'm going to number them one through six. Okay. And try to put your guesses in as well before... Okay, so here we go. Hold on. I got to get focused. These are going to be short, so I hope they're going to be good. Here we go. Number one, don't spend your work Christmas bonus on a pool until you actually have the money.

Christmas vacation, the greatest Christmas movie of all time.

Nice. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Yes. Number two.

Okay.

Don't steal a credit card and try to check into a hotel.

Home Alone.

Ding, ding, ding, ding.

Wow, you're cool. What's that? Lost in New York. Home alone, two. You know what? James got me on a technicality. I missed that one.

Okay.

It's a stickler, folks. It's a stickler.

Number three is maybe a little tough. I'm trying to just paint. The lesson is, even if there is no Christmas presents, a town can come together and still have happiness and joy.

Boy, I'm going to go with my instinct here. If I'm wrong, James is waiting. I'm going to say it's a wonderful life.

No? That's a good one to have a money lesson, though. How the Grinch told Christmas. Good job, James.

I'll be honest with you. Don't know that I've seen that movie, folks.

Okay, the next one people would debate if it is a Christmas movie. I'm going to say it is.

I think.

You've given me the clue. Yeah, that's a clue, I guess. If you switch houses and do VRBO, make sure it's what you expect. Do your research. Come on, Kenneth. Think. I'm going to give Ken about-.

This may be Stacy Coleman's favorite romantic movie. I'm going to go with The Holiday. Yeah! Ding, ding.

Ding, ding, ding, ding.

Wow, I can't believe it. My wife is going to be very proud of you, folks.

Well done. Okay, number five. This one's going to be hard to explain. Let me see if I can do it. If there's a sign in the mall that says, for someone special, and you buy it, they may not want or need the gift. Does James have it? Okay, James has it. Hold on.

Do you really? I don't.

Have anything. I know, it's broad. Oh, look, our audience even knows. You've got it?

She knows. Is that Elf? Is it Elf? I was going to say that or Paul Blart, Mall Cop. I wasn't sure it was going to be. Well done.

Well done. Okay, number six.

Thank you for the.

Clue from the audience. Number six, I would not categorize as a family-friendly movie. Oh, boy. Wouldn't let my kids watch this one. It's one of Winsor and I's favorites, though. We think it's so funny. Here's the last one. Don't lie to your family about not visiting them on vacation and saying that you're going to go on vacation.

This is going to be a hot take and an unpopular take, but it has now become my favorite Christmas movie. It has gone above National Lampoos Christmas vacation. It is Four Christmases. I'm a Vince Vaughan fan, and I got to do a sound effect. I'm probably going to get in trouble for this, but I got to do it. That's where they're going to inoculate the kids in Burma, and he makes up Burmese in the bedroom while they're packing. It cracks.

Me up. It is the funniest movie.

That and one last one. Okay. Swattle that baby. The Christmas service is just too much. And then Graham Graham. But I'm going to stop there.

Graham.

Graham, Betty White.

No.

That's not Betty White. No, it's not Betty White. Oh, my gosh. You're right. Sorry. Yeah.

It's true, though. But they make a very good point. You can't spell lives.

Without family. I mean, for Christmases, if you've not seen it, adults.

I think it is an instant classic.

It is so funny. We watch it every year. Okay, but It's a Wonderful Life is one of my favorite movies. And Mr. Bailey, I didn't think of that one to do a money, but that's a great money. I'll throw.

It well. But see, this is a part of the newest episode of The Rachel Cruz Show, so we're having a little fun with this. But you actually do a deep dive on this, yes?

Yes.

Yeah. We do it. Can I mention a movie for next year to go along with its wonderful life, Miracle on 34th Street? Yes.

I haven't seen that in years.

I know, and.

These are classics. Now, would you do the black and white version, the original?

The original, okay. Because it's really sweet. There's great character lessons in that. James, do you have... Can I also throw another movie out for next year?

Yes.

I think it's a Christmas movie. I'm pretty sure the booth and the audience, you jumped ahead. Would it kill you to wait? Would it kill you to not interrupt me? I was setting it up. I think Diehardt's a Christmas movie. That's what I think. You think it is? Austin says yes. James says... The collective booth says yes.

Because you're all dudes. All the women know.

It happened at Christmas. It was a.

Christmas party. It's not a Christmas party. I guess it's like the holiday. People would argue, is it a Christmas movie or not?

All right, there we go.

Lots of lessons to learn. God, it's a wonderful life.

Now let me turn this to real money stuff for people. Yes. What do you know from the data, and you've been coaching people for a long time, what are the biggest causes of Christmas mistakes, money mistakes? What would you say?

Obviously, overspending? Yeah, for sure. 25% of Americans are still paying for last Christmas. What? Yep, an article came out last week from Wallet Hub. Yeah, a quarter of Americans. I mean, it's unbelievable that they're still.

Do you think that we, as Americans, spend too much per capita? What I mean by that is per household. Within reason. Your budget's different than everybody else. My budget's.

Different, right? Yeah, I think naturally people are overspending. I did an interview today. You would love this, Ken. They're writing an article comparing 1950s Christmas to today. And what are they seeing? Well, they're interviewing about today, so I didn't get all the historical facts, but you're a history buff. I feel like you could go back in those days. But we were talking about the expectation of lifestyle in general from, for sure, the '50s, even the '80s, average square foot of a home, the cars, everything about it. Just our natural baseline of lifestyle is high. And that bleeds over, for sure, into the Christmas season. And so it is. It's this expectation, and it's the buy in, I think, too, because this gets me. It's the stuff you don't plan, right? We do a budget and we plan out, Hey, here's how much we're going to spend on Christmas. And then a party comes up. This happened to me last week, and it's a bunch of girls I know, and it's a favorite things party. I'm like, Why I want to go? But you have to bring two items. I mean, they're 20 bucks each, so it's like 40 bucks.

That's 40 bucks that we didn't plan exactly.

I had to run out the other night for Josie. She's like, Dad, tomorrow I've got my secret Santa at school, and I got to get this, and this, and this, and I'm going, What are we talking about? Get her an apple. That's what they did in the 50s. You're fun. I'm kidding. I didn't say that.

I wanted to.

I know. I wanted to. I remember, you probably don't remember this, but some of you are old enough to remember when the tickle me elmo.

First came out. Oh, I do remember it.

Yes. People were punching each other. Do you remember that video? Wrestling, like jumping off the third W-W-E move over this gift that your kid doesn't even know about.

I mean, it's wild. I mean, that's what's crazy. And I do miss a little bit of that hectic shop. I feel like there were always news stories. The furby, was it? I feel like we had all these toys, and you'd watch the news and watch all these crazy people- I don't know. -go crazy over a toy. So, yeah, I do think it's not being able to plan well because you're trying to do everything, and when stuff comes up, you just add on, and/or not having the margin, but continuing to live how you want to live. And there's a point that we have to be grownups to say, I just can't do that. And it's hard to say no to ourselves, but...

Oh, my goodness. It is tough. Here's the other thing. Look, this whole holiday is supposed to be about what you give, not what you get. If we're giving different things, we could fix the whole thing by changing everything to all you can buy is one ugly Christmas sweater for everybody you need. Then it becomes more about the fun of just that. We've made it about stuff, and I don't know where we're going to get it back, but hang in there. Please don't make any crazy money decisions. It's going to be okay. Don't be like those people that Rachel's talking about that are still paying for last year's Christmas.

Oh, that gives me heartburn.

Cousin Eddie. Where are the tums? Where's the eggnog?

Fell in a well, eyes went crushed.

Kicked by a mule, go back. There it is. I'd to hold off on that. She's got a little lip fungus we haven't identified yet. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by Rachel Cruz, and we're here to help you win in your money and in your work-life. By the way, if you're enjoying the show, no matter how long you've been listening to the show, one of the things that we would love for you to do, if we're adding value to you in any way, we'd love for you to share the show. Subscribe, leave a great review, share it with a friend. That all helps us get out there. You know how those algorithms work? I don't, but they're out there. All of that helps us get in front of people who may be struggling, certainly this time of year, as we head into the Christmas season, a little bit strapped financially, maybe heading into the new year and wanting to break free of all that debt and get a good start, we'd love to help. Please let people know. Triple-8-8-2-5-5-2-2-5. Let's stay right here in the back of the woods, if you will.

I don't know what I'm saying. In our neck of the woods, there it is.

I don't know.

Nashville. Nashville, Tennessee is where Kate joins us. Kate, how can we help you? Hi, Kate.

Hello, Kate.

How are you? You're on with Ken and Rachel. What's going on?

I was recommended to check out the call into the radio show to get some advice about my husband and my financial situation. It's more on my end. I moved out on my own two years ago. We just got married a couple of months ago. I've just been struggling to find consistent work that pays enough to the point where I've been on and off unemployed over the past nine months. Obviously, unemployment brings on debt, and I'm trying to figure out how to work with that while still being unemployed.

What debt have you accumulated?

I have some credit card and just some medical and other general debt.

What work would you love to be doing if we could just make it happen for you today? What would that be and what would that be and what would that income look like, realistically?

Well, ideally, I would say farming. Realistically, I went through a course for data analytics almost four years ago and have not been able to find a job in that yet. Okay.

Can I ask a question? What's causing all the unemployment for you? You said, I'm having a hard time keeping a job.

Some of it has been living on my own due to the rising cost. I've had to look for other jobs just to stay afloat. I recently was diagnosed with a thyroid illness and realized that part of what may be unemployed is I have difficulty getting out of bed in the morning and showing up to work.

Okay.

Now, you said that you've moved on from thing to thing. Is that what I took from that answer? Because you were trying to make more money, so you're job-hopping? Yes. But you're not hopping from something to something. You're just leaving something, then trying to find something else, sounds like.

Well, I have been moving from one job to the other when I've been able to. But sometimes I've been let go due to the illness and had to find a job from.

Being unemployed. Okay, so let's just hone in what we need to do right now to get some income for you. Now that you've got the thyroid condition diagnosed, and I'm assuming you're getting some doctor's care on this, and can we presume that you're going to be getting better and that energy issue is going to be taking care of itself? Is that true?

That's what I'm.

Hoping for. Okay, so we don't know. The issue is, would you be better served doing maybe a remote job, work from home where it's that is the thing they're expecting? Is that a better fit for you?

That's what I've been trying to find for almost four.

Years now. Well, sweetheart, let me just tell you something. I want to say this as kind as I can. You're in Nashville, and this is one of the hottest job markets in the country. When you look at states and their states' economies and we look at the general economy, there are a lot of jobs out there. If you can't find something, there is something going on with the way you're looking or the way that you are actually applying and getting into the situation. Because you should be able to find something right now with all the online freelance work that's out there.

Where you can make some money. You can be a personal assistant, a virtual assistant, Kate. You could pick up two clients and do that. What's your husband doing? You said you've been married a few months. What's his status?

He is a full-time student. He's about to start his final semester to graduate with the Bachelor's in Business Administration.

So he's not working?

He works part-time, but very limited part-time because he is a senior.

So you guys are broke and barely making it by?

Basically. Okay.

Yeah, Kate, I think the part of the formula that I think just has to be the one part you really focus on is this income side, Kate. And like Ken said, there's a lot of jobs that you can do from home. It's either going to have to be that or your husband is going to have to say, Hey, I can't go to school right now because my family doesn't have money. My wife is sick and can't work. And I don't care if I'm a senior. I have to pay my light bill and my rent and my mortgage. You know what I mean? There's a level of adult choices here that are not fun, but that have to happen to survive in our world today. And I'm not talking about the luxury of life. I'm talking about, Kate, you guys got to pay bills to keep the lights on and the rent paid. And so he may have to stop school. I mean, he may have to pause, Kate. That's how urgent I want you guys to feel, unless you can find something, which I have confidence you can. But it's that urgency. You looking for four years and him staying in school full-time, working part-time, that doesn't happen.

You can't do that. Does that make sense?

I don't know if to clarify with the four years. I was looking for my specific ideal role. Oh, okay, I got you. Which is what? The four years. I have been working since then, but it's been the lower income, unable to get decent savings jobs.

Okay, well, but wait a second, you can. Okay, so the ideal job is in farming, and I get that. I think when you're getting healthy, we want to get you on a path of that. But Rachel is right. Your hubs has got to be working two jobs. He doesn't have a thyroid condition, and the degree, we can get back to that degree, it will be there. He doesn't even need the degree. Honestly, a business degree doesn't guarantee anything. I don't want to pour salt in a wound here, but Rachel is 100% correct. He's working two jobs, maybe three jobs to get you guys in the income where it needs to be to pay off the debt.

Weekends.

Saturdays, Sundays. He's working all the time. He's working all the time. I will tell you, you need to be looking at customer service roles until the steroid thing gets under control. I think it's very hard for you to go to a Walmart or a Target or someplace like that when you've got this physical condition that is obviously sapping your energy and untold other issues. Here's the point. You can be working online, tutoring, customer care.

Those jobs are everywhere. Data and treatment. Data and treatment. Anything, yes. Anything, Kate. Even if you're bringing in $25,000 a year, that's something. Do you know what I'm saying? There needs to.

Be- It's what the two of you can do. This is not on you.

Yeah, this is not on you fully. Yeah, I'm not. Okay. So, yeah, you both, I think... How old are you guys?

I'm 25 and he's 23. Okay. Yeah.

So, yeah, this.

Is- By the way, Kate, one of the questions you need to ask is, will you help me? It's a question that we don't want to ask, right? You know people. You guys, you're young, you've come from a network, a connection to families in the national area. You've just got to go, Hey, this is where I'm at. I've got a thyroid condition. It's now diagnosed. I'm getting treatment. But this is where we are. Hubs is in school. We need to make money. We'll do anything. You've got to start putting the word out. Do you understand what I'm saying? This is not applying online and just hoping your resume makes it through the matrix. This is you talking to people, posting on social media to go, Hey, I'm looking for X amount of hours. This is what I-.

Raise your hand.

Out there. You got to raise your hand is a great way of saying that. Kate, you got to get.

After it. Which takes humility, right? I'm like, To your point, we hate doing that sometimes. It's hard to ask for help. Yeah, but you guys are in that situation where you need it. Because how much is your rent a month, Kate?

It's 700, so it's not that much.

Okay.

It's a lot when you're broke and you guys aren't bringing.

Anything in. Yeah, and then you got food. I mean, yeah, I mean, it's all of this. So any amount of money, Kate, to get you guys in a stable place. But that's probably going to mean him working Saturdays and Sundays and nights. I'm like, That's... And bartend, be a waiter. Find the places that you make some good money, too.

I hope your husband watches this. Have you watched? Hey, Hubs, listen to me. You could come to my neighborhood in Franklin and say, I'll put your lights up, your Christmas lights, outdoor for 200 bucks. I'll pay you so fast your head will spread. I don't want to do it. That's right. But there's something.

To be done right now. Step out there.

That's right. We are urgent because we must provide, and then it'll cycle out. Thank you, Kate. This is The Ranzy Show.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life, your money, your work, and your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me. We're in the Christmas Spirit, so Merry Christmas. We had fun. That was a little fun exercise. The game that we.

Played that was really interesting. Oh, earlier, yes, our Christmas movie.

I enjoyed that. I enjoyed that. Christmas movie trivia.

Between you and James.

Yeah. All spot on. Yeah, absolutely. All right, back to the phones we go. Bryan is now joining us in Danbury, Connecticut. Bryan, how can we help?

Hey, all. Thanks for taking the call. My family is expanding, thankfully. We are in the process. We purchased a new home. We're in the process of moving to that home. We're in the fortunate situation that we didn't have to sell our existing home in order to purchase the new home. And so now we're left with a question of what to do, whether we should sell it, whether we should rent it out. We did buy the home pre-COVID, and we bought in an area where a lot of New Yorkers have moved too. So our property value has increased thankfully because of that. So yeah, that's where we are. We're just wondering what to do with the home.

Okay, how much do you owe on that home, the old home? Yould home.

So the mortgage we have on the home outstanding is about 560.

560. And how much would it sell for?

We've been told it could sell around 1.2, 1.3. Amazing.

Okay. And how much is the new house? How much of a mortgage did you take out for that?

New house, the mortgage is 680.

680. Okay, so if my math serves me correctly, Ryan, you could sell your house, your old house, current house, and pay off the new house, correct?

Something like that. That's the dream.

Now, why are you chocolate?

Why would you not do that? Where the chuckle.

Come from? So I guess two things. Number one, we are changing, moving towns, and there's a little bit of emotional attachment, I'll say, to the existing house, like visions of moving back and doing something with the property or something. But also just a question of what's the right investment. Does it make sense to hold on to it as a rental or does it make sense to just.

Sell it? How far away are you moving from it?

It's about an hour.

It's not too far. And how much do you guys make a year, Ryan?

My wife and I are both are both in tax. So we gross around 340 a year.

Nice. Do you want to be a long-distance landlord? Because an hour is just at the point of a pain in the you know what.

Can I add this, Ryan? That and you guys said you have an emotional attachment to the house. Some family is going to move in there with a dog and three kids. You're going to be like, Oh, this is- Speaking of emotions. -and you're not going to want to move back into that place. Honestly, to move back in after three or four other families have lived there, the romanticism of it leaves.

I love this. What's the favorite part of the house? Give us an emotional attachment.

I don't know. We're in the Christmas season. The best I can probably describe is just like a nice, cozy house in a great neighborhood. I know the cold, the fat.

It's just a great house.

And worth 1.3 million. Yeah, there's that.

I know. I don't know if it's helpful is our mortgage. Part of it, I guess, is because we bought pre-COVID and mortgage rate was like three %, the mortgage monthly we're paying with.

Insurance and taxes and all that is like 3,300. Honestly, right? That doesn't really factor majorly into my thought process, because for you guys, doyou have any other debt? Do you owe stuff on your cars, credit cards? No. No? No. Okay, Bryan, listen, here's where I would say to keep it. If you called Anne, Brian, and you're like, We're making a million a year. I'd say, You know what? You guys live on nothing. Pay off that house. Pay off the other one. Keep it as a rental because it's yours and you own it outright in three years, whatever, whatever, whatever. But this keeps you, I mean, 560,000 on one, 680 on the other. It's keeping you guys in debt. And so when debt comes into play, there's a lot of this that's just, I don't know. It just adds on to me, more stress and the idea of, Oh, it's just passive income. The renters will pay. They'll pay the more. All of that that people believe about rentals is just not true. There's more of a headache. Now, if it's all paid for and you could take on the risk of something, that's something else.

All right, now I just had a thought, Rachel, and I don't think this changes anything, but I got to ask, Brian. I mean, Danbury, Connecticut, pretty historic place, as I recall. I've never been there, but pretty historic. I'm guessing pretty high income.

Yeah. Okay, what would the rent- Nice, New England towns, that thing.

Yeah, I actually want to go sometime. But what would you say the rent is, the market? Do you know what the market rent is, what you could get for your house?

We've been told, because the market is so constricted right now that we could get around $5,500, $6,000 a month.

What's the mortgage on it?

$3,300 a month. That's what tax is doing.

It's not changing my opinion. I just wonder if it changes my co-host's opinion on that. That's interesting. You're doubling up now. Now you still got the pain and it's an hour away. I have another question. You said the hope is we return. When would that be? When would you return? If that was even an option. I mean.

We talk... I know, it would be like five, 10-year times a week.

That thing. I just wanted to know.

Does that change your mind at all? Honestly, Brian, it doesn't. I know people are going to go on YouTube like, Rachel, you're crazy. Because here's what I think, Brian, and I'm usually a glass-half-full person, but I'm just thinking, Oh, my gosh, what if in 18 months, 24 months, what if something happens to the market? What if one of you loses your job? Without question. This thing that is supposed to be so great and in a perfect world, it's great. Where, Brian, in a perfect world, you could sell it bank $220,000.

That's what I'm doing every day of the week, by the way. Putting that.

Half.

That, maxing out retirement, putting some of that in a vandal account, letting it grow, going on vacation on just the interest. I mean, you know what I'm saying?

Your life- I agree with you.

It's all of it. I agree with you. I would sell it, Brian. I take the cash. I get that it's really sentimental. I get that.

Make some videos before you leave.

Yeah. Can I tell you this, Brian? Have you all moved into the new house yet?

No, not yet.

No. Okay. And is it an upgrade of a house? Would you say it's nicer and-.

It's a little nicer. It's importantly just more space because the family is growing. So that's the.

Principal reason why we're- Okay, so do you love the new house, though? Are you excited about it?

Yeah. No, it's a great... I mean, wife and I are the people that are really sticklers about things. And this house.

Check the box. Okay. And I'm only saying that, Bryan, because my husband and I, when we built and moved in in 2019, our house, we had only lived in one other house. It had been about 11 years. I brought all three kids home from the hospital in this house. It's right when Winston and I moved as a married couple. We had spent a decade of... And all of it. And I cried, and I took pictures of every bed, I mean, all of it. And I just told Winston, I was like, I'm so sad. I'm so sad. But yet we're building this home that we're so excited about, but I'm so sad. I'm so sad. Brian, can I tell you this? This is not exaggeration. We moved in. Two to three days later, I had to go back to the house because we forgot something in the garage I had to pick up. I walked in the kitchen and I was like, I want to go back to my.

New house.

There it is. I flipped the switch. Again, and you may not, but I'm telling you, when you make the change, the glamor, and I understand the sentimental factor, but it seems just to, I don't know, for me, it'll always be special. But it's not a reason I would keep it $560,000 a day. I think.

You're so right. I'm with Rachel. Take the cash, keep the memories.

And go and run off into the sunset with $220,000 in cash after a paid-for home, Brian? Then think about this. Your whole income.

Is yours. Huge income.

$3,000 rent is not even going to be a $6,000. You know what I'm saying?

There's just so much to do. Now that brand new house or that new house for you guys is a massive investment that's paid for in Connecticut. Yeah. I like it. I had Connecticut real estate, by the way.

I can't only imagine.

You've ever been to Connecticut? She doesn't know.

No, I was going to say Boston, but that's Massachusetts.

Yeah, okay. I'll show her the map. Don't go anywhere. More coming. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life, specifically winning with your money, winning in your work, and winning in your relationships. The phone number to jump in we'd love to coach you today is triple-eight-eight-two-five-five, two-two-five, triple-eight-eight-two-five, five, two, two, two, five. Rachel Cruz joins me. I'm Ken Coleman, and we are thrilled to be here to coach you, guide you. We want you to win. Let's get to the phones. Susie is up in Seattle, Washington. One of my favorite cities. You were just out there recently.

I was, yes.

Little T-Swift?

A little T-Swift action this summer. Fantastic.

Love Seattle. That's where Susie is. Susie, how can we help?

Well, first of all, thank you, Ken and Rachel for taking my call. Ken, you're the perfect guy for this question. After 33 years, the corporate headquarters where I work is moving out of state. And my question is about how I go through this transitionary process where we have an end date that's vague and how I go about interviewing. And what do I share with my current boss about what I'm doing? I mean, obviously, I'm not going to stay. They know that. And it's just a weird ethical thing I have going on in my heart.

Yeah. Well, you're a very, very, very upstanding, high-integrity person because of even asking this question. But I would tell you, this may shock you. I wouldn't tell them anything. Now, what I mean by that is I tell people all the time, don't cheat on your current job. If you're going for job interviews and you get personal time or your lunch hour, you use that. You know what I mean? You're not going on job interviews when you're supposed to be in the office. I want to be very clear about that. But they know you're leaving. You already told us that. They know why you're leaving. Company's relocating. My guess is you're an employee with high standing. Is that true with your leader? Correct. Yeah.

I'm just the person that wears my emotions on my sleeve. I'm the cheerleader. Get that. For the couple of us that are looking for other jobs, I'm trying to encourage them at the same time. Do it. Do all that. It's just a weird line.

No, I understand what you're saying, but I'm trying to tell you there is no line here. It's not unethical for you to look for a new job when they've told you your job is essentially ending and they know you're not going to relocate. It would be, in my mind, the issue is not is it ethical? It would be nonsensical for you not to apply for a job and to go do interviews. Does that make sense? Yes. All right, then.

You don't have to tell them anything. If they ask you point-blank, be honest.

Of course. But my point is that if you're going to do a job interview and you got a lunch hour, then instead of taking your normal lunch hour, then go do your job interview and you take that hour and you're a good steward of what you're supposed to be doing. Now, you didn't do anything wrong. Now, to Rachel's point, they go, Hey, are you looking for jobs? Go, Yeah. Which by the way, they're probably going to ask you because they know you're not staying with them anyway. So none of this is a secret. Therefore, you don't have to act secretive, but you also don't have to walk around going, Hey, I interviewed the other day. Let's just go about our business. It'd be like me telling Rachel, Hey, she knows I probably have to go to the doctor once in a while, but I don't go, Hey, I went to the doctor today. I got a case of gout. She doesn't care. She doesn't want to know I don't have a case of gout. But just.

Saying- Or even if.

I know what that is. -it's an overshare. You know what I mean? It's like you don't need to share this because you're not doing anything wrong. Does that make sense?

Yes. The other nuance here is that they're having a very hard time finding people in the new state. They have and in the other departments that have already transitioned, they offer them to stay longer. And up until this last month, I've been pretty clear that I was willing to stay longer. But my heart has changed because, partly because of your show, I am encouraged about the job market. I know there is something better for me out there, and I'm excited about that. And because of the rampy plan, I have total financial peace. I am not concerned at all about that, and I'm ready to move on. I'm also worried about that transition when they ask me to stay if I don't or if I- Here's the deal. You're right, though. It's on paper that they're.

Letting me go on that. That's right. Here's the deal. You're such a nice person. You're probably a bit of a people pleaser, and you're probably wrestling with some guilt, but you have not done anything wrong. See, we use the word guilt. We apply guilt to- Feeling bad, yeah. -something that is, I've done wrong. You've done anything wrong, and I think you're just very open and clear. If they ask you to stay a little longer, you go, Well, I don't think I'm going to. That doesn't make you a bad person, and it doesn't make you ungrateful. I think that's what you're wrestling with.

Yeah. Susie, even when you said, Oh, my gosh, they're having a hard time finding people in this other state. If they have trouble, what do I... That's not your responsibility. There's a point that they've made this decision as a company, and now that decision is not sitting well with you because you're not going to move. And so naturally, your heart has moved on. It's a reasonable line of thinking. You're not out of the blue this crazy person. I mean, that all makes sense. So just know that, too.

Yeah, Susie, you're a great lady, and there's great things ahead. And I would be moving forward on everything that you want in the next of your life. No guilt.

Thank you so much.

Yeah, you bet. Appreciate that. What a sweet lady.

I love that. Yeah, so fun. And just as a little tack on what she said, because of the Ramsey plan, I'm able to do this. That's a beautiful thing that we talk about a lot. When you put yourself in a position financially, you guys, and the Ramsey plan is you're out of debt. You have money saved in the bank, you're living intentionally, you have options. So even if Susie's company came in and said, You're laid off, Susie probably would say, Okay, because I don't have debt and I have three to six months of expenses in the bank, and I'll just look for a new job. That's really sad. I've been with them for a long time. But even if this decision was forced upon her, it still has a level of peace because things are taken care of. There's wisdom in that, you guys. But even on the front end, she can proactively now say, I don't want to go with where my job is going.

She's thinking about.

Something else. Now I can think about something else. Even if you don't have something for a month or two, it's okay.

It's a very good point. The financial freedom that Susie has gives her the professional freedom right now when this change has been forced on her. And now she's like, I want to do something else. It reminds me of that scene from Jerry Maguire. Have you seen it? Yes. You know, he finally leaves, and he's thinking he's got the world, and he's in the car, and he just rolls the windows down, and he's singing Tom Petty's, I'm free. And he's letting it go. And that's a guy in that situation who's going, Look, I'm doing my thing. I'm doing what I want to do. In this case, Susie, I think that might be the play. It might be a little chilly in Seattle, but maybe we crank up to Tom Petty on the drive home tonight.

And just enjoy.

She's financially free, which means she's free to do what she wants. By the way, that's what everybody's longing for, is freedom.

Yep, that autonomy over your life. Were you have a say. I know George, Camel, and I were talking this morning on my show, and we are filming a segment for his new book, Breaking Free From Broke, if you have not pre-ordered that. Make sure to pre-order to get some free goodies and stuff with the pre-orders, so check that out at ramseysolutions. Com/store. But we're talking about how you go through high school and college, and then you're out on your own, out of your parents, telling you what to do. And then you all of a sudden look in a system that's telling you what to do, the financial system, or you're looking to the government, whatever. I'm telling you what. And I'm telling you, it's like when you break free from all of those quote-unquote systems, you have the ability to have a say over your life in so many ways, in your career and in your money. So that freedom is massive.

I'll tell you what I am fighting the freedom to do is to sing that last-Go, Ken. -that big refrain. But I think James is going to write me up for it. So I'm going to just do it during the commercial. Do it. Just for the Because I'm free. There it is. That's all I got. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey, guys, it's Rachel Cruz. I'm so excited to announce that our Ramsey Christmas Cash Giveaway is back. That's right. It's your chance to win $5,000. Just go to ramseysolutions. Com/giveaway and enter daily to increase your chances. Plus, you can shop our brand new meaningful gifts, including my new children's book, the limited edition Navy Wallets, and Dr. John Deloney's Christmas conversation cards, all for as low as $10 at ramseysolutions. Com/store.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by Rachel Cruz, and we are here for you to talk to you about your money, your work, and your relationships. The phone number is triple-eight, 825-5225, triple-eight, 825-5225, and Victoria is joining us now in Philadelphia. Victoria, how can we help?

Hi. I just had, I guess, a question and just wanted your opinion on me and my husband. We just bought a home.

Okay.

Tell us about it. So I have been in the military the last five years. We lived on a military base, and I own my own hair studio. So living with no expenses with the military, we were able to save up quite a lot of money. So when we moved back home, our intent was to buy a home and not to rent. So we lived with my parents for just a month before we found a townhome in the area that we wanted to be in. We went into it knowing it wouldn't be our forever home. It's just a small two-bedroom little townhome, but we didn't want to rent and not be able to save up another significant amount of money as our down payment. So we went through with buying it. And now in my head, I'm like, Will we ever be able to get out of it? It's not a forever home. How long should we stay in it? So not that I have regret of buying it, but sometimes I wonder, should we have just waited to buy a forever home, or was this a.

Good move? All right, let's see what the details give us here. How much did you put down? How much do you have left on the mortgage?

It started at 385, and we put 10 % down, and we also bought out the PMI.

Okay. So how.

Much do you have left? I think we have about 360, I believe, 358, something like that.

And how long ago was this that you bought it?

Exactly a year ago in November of 2022. Okay.

Okay. And besides it just not knowing it's not your forever Home, because Forever Homes, Victoria, honestly, it's a romanticization of this term, but that rarely happens. I mean, some people do. They buy their first home and they stay in it forever and ever. But most people move two or three times, right? Houses in their lifetime. So for you guys, I understand not wanting to rent, especially when you have the money saved. So is the mortgage... How much is the mortgage compared to your income right now? Does it feel like a lot?

I feel like it felt like a lot coming from not having any bills. So our payment is 2,700 a month. We have a 6.9 % interest rate, so it's definitely not low. Altogether with all of our bills, we probably end up paying $3,300 a month. My husband alone brings in just about $7,500 himself per month. And then I'm a business owner. So now that it's my first year owning my hair business in this state. So I bring in about 12 grand a month, but I have to.

Pay all the taxes. Twelve grand a month?

Yeah.

But she's paying.

What's your take home?

Well, that's the thing. It's different every month, but I would say maybe around seven, which is still really good.

But I'm- Listen, you.

Guys have a 14.

You got $14,000.

Yeah, your income- Take home. Yeah, you're fine. Your ratio of mortgage to your income is great. Yeah, you all are fine, Victoria. I think you're probably having a little buyer's remorse because it's probably just sticker shock. It's one of the largest purchases, probably the largest purchase you guys have ever made. I think you were in a great... I mean, you guys had prime position to buy. Do you guys have consumer debt?

You mean any other debt?

Yes, any other debt besides this mortgage?

Just our two car payments, which I have, I think, $12,000 on mine. And he has, I think his is in the 20s. So they're not.

Too bad. How much are the car payments a month?

Mine's $325, and his is $400.

I'm in really grief. I'd be more nervous.

About that. I know, $700 going to car payments. Do you guys have any money saved?

Yeah, I have about 100 grand saved, and he has just around 30.

What is going on here?

Hey.

Victoria, you guys are great. I would pay off your cars today. Yes. And no more of his savings and my savings. You guys together have $133. You all need to start looking at this as a unit, right? That you guys together have $130,000, put it in the same account, the same high yield savings. This is a together conversation you and your husband are having or living out is, together this is what you guys have. You guys have $130,000. Pay off your cars today, Victoria. You have a great savings. You're in a beyond perfect position. You're great.

Can I ask you, Victoria, have you seen another house and you know your income? You've been really disciplined to save that money. Is this because you see something else that you want? You're like, Dad, government. I got my money wrapped up in this other thing. Is that what's going on?

Yeah, that's exactly what it is. Me and my husband are both 23. The fact that we were able to save so much, I feel like at a somewhat young age, I'm like, Did I not waste my money on this house? Did I.

Have waited enough? No. Now, let me be big brother for a minute, okay? Let me tell you what you've done. You've been really, really smart except for these car payments. Rachel's right. Cut a check for $32,000 today. If I wrote it down right, $20 and 12, and you guys still have right at $100,000 in savings, high yield savings account, you guys are making money, hand over fist. You just gave yourself a $700-plus-month raise because the car payments are gone. You know what I would do if I were you? I'll let Rachel correct me here because she's a little sister. Believe me, she'll correct me. I would take the $700 a month that you've been in car payments, and I'd put that towards the next house. After you've got your emergency fund, you're investing 15%, all of that should be walking the baby steps. But I take that $700 and I go, We're going to save up and we get through year number two of having that home so we don't take capital gains hit. Then if you want to sell and you got a down payment that you've saved up for with the rules that we give, Rachel, I'd like to see them stay in the townhouse two or three more years.

Don't be in a rush. You've got a.

Great asset. Yes, exactly. Yeah, I would be okay with that, Victoria, or putting the 700 towards the house. So you have built-in equity. I'd pay that off too, sure. And you have built-in equity. So you're building equity. So when you guys save, you have more equity in the house to use for the next house.

They've either way. They have margin to do both.

Yeah, you're fine, Victoria.

My point is, I look at 14,000 take home, and you said your bills are, we're going to call, I think you said 3,300 or something?

Just around that.

My goodness. Yeah, you could be doing the baby steps, paying towards that, plus saving a down payment. Yeah, you're doing great, Victoria.

Plus saving the down payment. You did not do something... No, you did not do something wasteful. This is it. You did.

It perfectly. You're doing great.

Yeah. You guys have a nice hotel room. Does that help you?

Okay, we're okay. Yeah, it does make me feel better. Yeah, it does make me.

Feel much better. Do you guys want kids soon? Do you see that you want to move areas? Is there any of that that's playing in? No. Okay. You just really freaking out that you own something.

Kind of, yeah. I feel like we have enough space for us, too. It's just like a want to have more space than should we have way to get.

Exactly what we wanted. Listen, let me tell you, and Rachel is great at this. You said it. I'm going to remind you what's going on. You know you can afford something bigger and better, and you didn't get it, and you'reone, you're trying to play armchair quarterback and go back and go, Oh, but you can't do that. You guys are making more money now. All this is is, I'd like this. On paper, financially what we're making, we could make it. We could get that house, and that's all you're dealing with. That's it. You didn't make a bad move, though, and you can upgrade down the line.

Yeah. Be patient is the point. Wait a couple of years. Twenty-three. Yeah, wait a couple of years. You'll have the sweet house. And upgrade if you want. This would be a good season too, Victoria, of practicing a level of contentment, right? Because I think there is something in the sense that even though we can do it financially, do we need it? And there's a little bit of that discipline in that. And I think that's what's hard. But we always warn people when they have money saved and they go to the mortgage broker, the mortgage broker is automatically going to be like, No, but look at the house you could get. You could get this much of a mortgage. And you're like, Nope, I'm doing this. I'm doing this. So I think there's a level of practice of just, hey, you guys are really blessed. You've worked really hard. You've been really smart. You're good. You don't need more space. Even though mathematically you could, you don't need it. So Victoria, I would take this season and I would have sweet memories and a space that maybe feels a little tight to you guys. Love it.

But it's a good season of life. And then when you want to upgrade later on the line, you can, but you don't.

Need to. What do you call these hands on Instagram?

Oh, this means all done. No, sorry. What's the little-Praise hands emoji.

Praise hands. That's what I'm doing. I can't see you, Victoria. I'd have Rachel help me. She's better at the whole social than I am. That's what I'm doing right now. You guys are crushing it. -praise hands. -so happy for you. Praise hands. That's what.

That's called? That's what I call it. Praise hands emoji.

I did it wrong because I started doing- I thought you were.

Doing this.

This is what.

You do. It was a little-It's a sign language for all done.

-it's a sign language for all done. This is The Ramsey Show. All right, let's cut to the chase.

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Com/agent. Welcome back to.

The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me. We're here to answer your questions about your money and your work and your relationship. Triple-8, 825, 5225, Triple-8, 8255, 8255, 5225. Portland, Oregon is where we go next. Carson is there. Carson, how can we help?

Hi, I'm looking to start a fab shop with a friend of mine. I'm just curious if that is something that I wouldn't have to take a commercial loan out for. Is that even smart? No. I'm also trying to go into a welding program, and that will also require me to take out.

Student loans. Okay, whoa. Hold on. I want you to keep going, but I want to understand this. How much is the welding program going to cost?

$28,000. That is.

How long? How long before you get it? Ten-month program. How much?

$28,000 for a.

10-month program. Ten months, okay. What are you going to do with that? Is that going to help you in the Fab shop where all that fabricating, or is this something separate?

No, it will help me because when we start the fabrication process, I'm going to be running all of the business, but it's just going to be me and my buddy doing most of the welding, and I don't want him to be alone doing all the welding.

Okay. Is there another option than a $28,000 welding program?

Well, I've panicked when I heard that. I called you guys, and I called my parents. My dad has owned a business. He owns a body shop and has welders on his payroll. He was looking at buying me a welder, actually, a pig welder for Christmas, and just buying material myself. I'm just thinking about it, and I've talked over with my friend who's the welder. According to him, I can learn how to weld all on my own. You can't. I don't need a little piece of paper.

You don't.

Need it at all.

Yes, Carson. Carson, thank you for playing. I was walking you right into that because welding does not require any licensing. Welding requires experience. You're surrounded by welders. Carson, please, please, please do not take that program. Do not take it. You don't need it, number one. Number two, you can't afford it.

Your dad is in an industry that you could sit down with any of those guys and watch and learn.

Let me also say this. Just business 101, Carson. You get this business up and running and you need a second pair of hands. If you're not at that skill level yet, you can hire that out. There are plenty of welders out there, and you build that into the cost of doing the work. You having to take this course, it's not a requirement, and I don't want you to take the loan out. Now, let's talk about the business itself. What do you think it's going to cost real capital to actually start this fabrication business? $300,000. What's the $300,000 go for? Talk me through that.

Leasing the building out for a period of time, however that may be. The welders, in particular, the welding tools, tig welding, the MiG welders, all of that, the gas, that's going to cost around $3,000 for the gas. It's going to cost around 10 grand for all the welders, and it's going to cost... Well, the welder salaries, that's the thing because there's per diem, and then there's how much you're actually getting per hour. I'm thinking, Well, I'd want somebody starting out at least 25 because I want somebody of skill. Per DM, Well, that's $100 a day, or $75, $50 a day, depending on the level of skill.

How old are you, Carson?

I'm 19.

Years old. Carson, this is great. I'm going to challenge those numbers, but I like that you're already able to rattle off those answers. But you're 19. My advice to you is, go work for a fabricator, get the welding skill by getting paid to do it, working with your dad, working with friends of your dad, get into this business, but have somebody else pay you. You're 19. Maybe you do it for four or five years. I'm not going to hold you to that. I don't want you. I don't want to hang that timeline on you. I'm giving you an example. But let's just say that you did it for four years. I put you at 23, and you've been making really good money as a welder or in a fabrication shop, even if you're on the business side, because I hear more of a business guy than a welder. If I go to work for somebody who's winning in the car fabrication space and all that, and I get a master's degree in real-life experience while I'm getting paid, and I'm putting money away, and I'm now going to take that new welding skill, and I'm going to make an extra $50,000 a year.

In four years, I got 200 grand. I'm trying to play this out for you that my friend, if in fact, it's going to take you 300 grand to eventually open up your own business, you are so young and so far ahead of the game with your vision and knowledge. Be patient, because at 26, you could start that business cash, have zero risk, and be crushing it and be a multimillionaire.

Carson, the amount of small business owners we talk to that are paying for companies that have closed eight years ago and they're still paying off the loan, it's not good. Remember this, move at the speed of cash. It's going to be slower. It's not going to be as exciting, but you're going to make way less mistakes and different decisions when you're using your money versus the bank. So no, please at 19, don't go take out a student loan for $28,000. Please don't go take out a business loan with your friends for a hundred grand. Don't do the 300,000 loan. No, none of that. I would not do any of that. Take your time. You're very smart. The stuff is going to start to click, and you're going to start to understand, Oh, my gosh, if I just stay in this and I'm patient and it's going to go by so fast. Three years, it's like a blink. Life goes by so fast, Carson. Take your time and you're going to freaking kill it. That's right. You're going to do so well. And it's going to be all yours. It's going to be all yours. So do not take the risk of taking up that debt.

Listen, one last thing on this to all young people like this. If you want to start a business in a certain field when you're this young, go work for somebody who's crushing it in the field. The amount of knowledge and wisdom you're going to get while getting paid is enormously valuable.

Sometimes you may get into the business and be like, Oh, is this what this is?

It's not all.

It's cracked up to be. It's not what I was thinking. Very good point. I mean, people do that a lot where they have this idea of something, and then you go get it, and you're like.

What do you say, Rachel? Can we help Rebecca? Yeah, we'll go quick. Let's go. Rebecca in Minneapolis, how can we help?

Hi. I'm just calling because I'm going back to work next week. I just had my third baby, so maternity leave is ending, and daycare costs are going to be starting. I already have one son in daycare, and we pay 225 a week for him to be in there full-time. Right now with adding a baby, we're going to be up to 425 a week, which seems pretty steep for our area. I've been looking around at rates and just burning home. It seems like a lot. We've been with her for five years, and I just don't know if it's worth bringing up a conversation about what happened or pay.

I mean, cost of living is crazy.

Yeah.

I mean, like why? Because I had my daughter, when my daughter and son went, I paid 360 for them to be there for full-time. So it jumped pretty significantly. Probably inflation. And, I don't know if it's worth the conversation or is that just something that we got stuck up for two years?

I think it's always worth the conversation. Yeah, I think it's totally fair to talk to her and just say, Hey, here's the numbers we had. Here's our situation. Is there any way you could do 400 or 370 or 390? You know what I mean? Give her a price that's fair, because like you said, her rent on the place may have gone up. I mean, there are these expenses. I would assume she's not just jacking the rate, she may be, but there's also a lot of cost that goes into owning a business. And so I would offer her another price and just see if she takes it. And if she doesn't, yeah, you guys are either it's going to be two years of dishing out 425 a week for childcare, find other options if you feel safe doing that, and/or one of you guys wrestling with the idea of does one of you just stay home, right? There's a point where childcare can be so frustrating. It's so frustrating, but it can be so expensive that you have to equate, Hey, is this worth the trade off of what I'm actually bringing home in my other job?

And is it making sense financially for our family? That's always a conversation. But I would have a conversation with her and offer her a different price and see if.

She takes it. Yeah. Thank you for the call.

Congrats on the new little one. I know. This is a hard… I know going back after the third. It's a lot, Rebecca. Oh, boy.

I feel you. Don't move. More of your calls coming up. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruz joins me this hour. The phone number is triple-8-825-5225. Our scripture of the day comes from Galatians 6:10. So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone and especially to those who are of the household of faith. Our quote today comes from Theodore Roosevelt. It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed. That guy would have been a great locker room speech guy. I'd love to see him give a pregame talk. I get the President in here today. He's going to fire. You got the Army-Navy game coming this weekend? I could see him giving a talk there. There you go. There's your little known fact of the day. Nobody cares about the Army-Navy game coming up this weekend. This is a sad time for me. All college football has ceased.

I know.

Until we get.

To- New Year's.

Yeah, it's a really tough time for me. There's a few weeks. They thinking about me. Thoughts and prayers for me on the weekend.

I will. Sorry, Ken.

Thank you. Mike is up in Cleveland, Ohio. Mike, how can we help?

Yeah. Hi, guys. Nice to talk to you.

Nice to talk to you.

So I had left a 10-year career in health and fitness about two years ago trying to get into a new career space, looking at project management or some leadership role at the hospital I'm currently at. And my current role, it's a combination of a lot of different fields. I'm a virtual health coordinator, and it's part IT, customer service, vendor management, project management, tech support. My question is, I have an upcoming surgery in January where I'm going to be off for about 6-8 weeks and I have a lot of free time. I'm just wondering what you would recommend I can do to expand my skills, my knowledge, and if there's any courses or certifications out there that I should be looking into.

Yeah. I love this question. I would get to the most practical things that will help you get where you want to go. If you want to get into project management and/or leadership, I would be focusing on those two things. Just off the top of my head, I'm going, All right, what leadership podcast am I going to be listening to? The Andre leadership podcast. It's a great podcast here from Regenerative Solutions. What leadership books? I can make recommendations on that. But I'm going to be really diving in. I've got this downtime, so I'm going to be reading, I'm going to be listening, I'm going to be watching and so I would start there. But my question is, are you wanting to move into project management and then allow that to set you up for some leadership roles? Which way do you really want to go?

That's the part I'm still navigating. I'm doing that with my current supervisor. He meets with me once a month to explore career options. I was in leadership in the health and fitness industry, and I liked that part. Now in my current role, I'm doing a little bit of project management. At this point, this is where I've just started to get my feet in the water and figure out more.

Clearly what I want. Well, for instance, at Ramsey Solutions, I partnered with our Ramsey Education Department about a year and a half ago, we came out with a project management course. Taking a course like that, if you haven't done anything more than just I stepped into, I'm dabbling in project management in my current role, a project management certification would be a great thing to do in that 6-8-week period. Again, kick the tires on what we've got. I'll have Austin connect you to our team on that. You can see if you want to use that or not, but it's a really good course. But absolutely, if project management is something you're interested in, I would do some research on several courses like you would a college course and go, Do I really want to spend the money and the time to take it? I think that's the answer. I'd talk to some more people who are in project management. This is why I wrote the book, The Proximity Principle, is largely, Look, if I want to do something, I want to get around people that are doing it and get an idea of the good, the bad, the ugly.

Before you make any of these decisions on what to do, let's do a little bit of research. I think your heart's always going to say, it's either that X from Family Feud or the ding-ding-dinding and looking into something and talking to people who do it, that's when the heart comes in and goes, Oh, I don't actually want to do that. You've been in leadership before. It was just a different industry. If you loved leadership before, my guess is you're going to love it again. If project management somehow gives you a little bit more skill and experience to expand your leadership role and you like the idea of it, then I'd go with it. But that's my advice. I want to keep it really simple.

Rachel? Yeah, and I think Ken's advice of sitting down with people that are doing it, I think is one of the smartest things because you can have this broad idea and talk to many different people in different lanes of this and in different industries. You really will start to weed out. My husband, Winsor just did this a few months ago, and he was like, It was so funny because you have one picture in your head. And then you're like, Okay, that was good information from there. Okay, I got that. I mean, probably four or five different meals, lunches. Then another opportunity pops up, and he's like, Oh, now I really know that's exactly what I want to do there because of the... It's all of it. That's a great example. It's all of it. So go and have lunch with people, talk with them and all these industries. People are happy to share their experiences and what they know, the good, the bad. But I think that that's one of the best resources you can do. I think it is so helpful just to weed down, Okay, this is it. This is really what I've realized I love.

Yeah, absolutely. So, Mike, where you're standing right now, what is that 5, 7, 10-year not holding you to this? What would you like to be doing?

Yeah, that's something I've talked about with my boss. Just coming from such a different space, it's hard. But I know one of the pieces of the puzzle is the current hospital I'm at, I would love to stay there long term. Then I do want to get back into leadership. It's just I don't know which area of the hospital I would want to fall into.

Well, then, as Rachel just said, that's what you're starting to do. You're in. You need to be setting up meetings with people in all those different departments of the hospital, whatever that looks like, and get an idea where you want to land. That's the good news. You're already in the door. If you want to be in the leadership role, I would just be using that downtime to just fill yourself up with knowledge, but then get some real wisdom, like Rachel said, from real people who are leading in the hospital industry, whatever that's like. That's a very nuanced world, very different than probably what you're used to. But the leadership side is still the same. That's going to change. You care for people. You love coaching people. You love serving people. You've got great experience there. All this other stuff is now just like, What's that sandbox I want to play in? I thought Rachel's advice was great. By the way, most people are afraid to do that, Rachel. They're afraid to just go, Hey, can I take you to lunch? By the way, everybody loves to get a free lunch and a free coffee. The only thing people love more than a free lunch or a free coffee is?

Talking about themselves. Yes. That's what you're going to say.

Yes. This is a no-brainer. Hey, Robb, can I take you out for lunch? My treat. I want to pick your brain on what you think about... It doesn't matter what you say after that. But Rob is going to be like, Yeah, I'm in, man.

Absolutely. Give me a sub and a Diet Coke, and I'll give you what you need.

A sub and a diet Coke. All of a sudden, we're at subway. Rob is dispensing wisdom. Jersey Mike's. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In't call there. But isn't that true, though?

Yes, and it's having the real life. It's just like the young guy we talked to last segment about the welding. There is something about just real-life experience. I think that's one thing I know about the education system. You have all your thoughts and stuff on. I'm like, And that is one missing piece. It's not the real world. You can take as many classes on something, but when something is just in a formulaic way or in your head what you've made it up to be, it may not be accurate until you're really in the nuts and bolts of life and asking people's experiences and understanding with the filter that they're bringing their own stuff to the conversation. But you're getting a picture of, okay, this is what this looks like, expectations. And even for him in a great way, it's like that specific hospital. And you're going to learn the culture of that place. There's a lot of things you'll be able to pick up nuances within those conversations with people. That is very helpful, too, to be on your side as you start this leadership track.

A couple of practical questions coming off this call for a lot of you that are out there wondering, even on a side hustle, do I launch it? Let me give you a couple of quick questions based on what Rachel and I have been talking about. Do I want to do it? Does my heart get excited about the idea of doing I want to? Now you got to follow up with, can I do it? Do I have the core talent that with training and experience that I could pull it off? And then how? How? Meaning it's the best way? By the way, there's always multiplepass up a mountain. Everything we just described is going to answer those three questions. If you do that, guess what happens? You've got yourself a really good plan that's not very risky because you know what you're getting into. It isn't just I'm walking blind trying to hope that it works out. There you go. Rachel Cruz, absolutely fun show today. Thank you, my friend. By the way, she was telling me she's on the Instagram, and she's putting out these great things, great advice all the time. Check her out on the gram at Rachel Cruz.

She's dropping the wisdom bombs. Go check her out. I'm A Ken Coleman. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey, guys, I'm Rachel. And I'm George. And you've probably heard our voices before on The Ramsey Show.

And do we have a.

Surprise for you?

Yep. We have our very own show, Smart Money, Happy Hour, where we talk about pop culture, current events, and of course, money. George, it's a great show. And what else do we talk about?

So much, Rachel. Not enough, and yet too much. We talk about guilt tipping because tipping is out of control and I won't stand for it anymore, which is why I'm sitting.

I'm glad you are taking such a stand.

And we also talk about something else I'm passionate about Disney Adults.

Oh, George. Why is it a thing?

Listen, some adults still find the magic.

Sure. We also talk about toxic money traits and girl math. And if you don't know what.

Those are, you have to listen to the podcast.

Yeah, there's a lot there, you guys. It's pretty fun.

We keep.

You relevant is what I'm.

Trying to say. We help you out.

So pull up a chair to the happy hour you wish your friends were having. We promise you won't regret it. And if you don't have friends, we'll be your friends.

We will. We're great friends. So make sure to check it out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or the Ramsey Network app.