Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life, specifically in your money, in your work, and in your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaugh, my friend and colleague, joins me this hour. We're here to answer your questions. Should we be taking your money questions? I'll chime in. I'll be taking any questions about personal growth in your work, and do you want to get ahead and how to get ahead and managing this money journey alongside of that? Jade will weigh in on that as well, the phone number for you to jump in is triple-888-25-5-2-25. I'll also say this. I'll say a little bit more as we get closer to it, but a special treat today. The clue is the word treat. That's all I can say right now. Well, I could say more. I just don't want to.

Don't give it away, Ken. I'm not going to. Give it away. Give it away. Give it away now. I was.

Thinking that. Were you thinking that? I was like, Anthony Keitas told us to give it away, but don't.

Give it away. Love that. Let's get to the phones. Levi is up first in Tampa, Florida. Levi, how can we help? Levi.

I.

Hit the button, I promise I hit line one, so we're not getting Levi. This happens from time to time.

That's all right, we can keep rolling.

I think James is going to help us out.

Yeah, we.

Hear you, Levi. Levi, what's going on?

Okay. Hi, everyone. My name is Levi. I am in $200,000 of student loan debt. I am an attorney. I make $115,000 a year. Take-home income is about 6,200. I also DJ and create content on the side. My overall take-home income per month is about 6,800. Here's my question. I want to refinance my student loans to get a lower interest payment. Right now, my interest is nine %. If I refinance right now, my interest rate will be somewhere between seven and 7.5 %.

That's.

Great. Okay. Should I refinance right now or should I wait for interest rates to lower?

How long have you been out of school?

So I graduated from law school in 2020, which was during COVID. I didn't... And my student loan... I never had to pay any student loans, and now they've just kicked back in, and I've made a couple of payments.

Listen, and they're all private?

They're all federal.

Oh, so you're consolidating them at 7.5%. You're not necessarily refinancing them?

I don't know. See, the answer is like that. That's exactly why I called it.

The ranky show. I don't really know. No, it's okay. With federal loans, you can consolidate them down and they'll group them all together and they'll put them at one interest rate, which is not always, for some people, it's not always the best move, but it sounds like in your case, it is the best move. The thing that you need to realize with that is you get one shot to do it. I think that's why you're worried of, should I do it now or should I wait?

That's accurate. Okay.

Well, let me ask you a couple more questions before we get to that. Do you have any other debt?

Well, I've been listening to The Ramsey show for about three months, and over the last three months, I paid off all my credit card debt.

Sweet. Awesome. Anything else? Cars?

My car is one hundred % paid off as of about six months ago. Right now, I pay, and you're probably not going to like this, I pay 1,250 in rent, but I'm ready for an upgrade. Sorry. Who are.

You apologizing to? Not me.

Well, right now, the debt snowball is 200K. And if I raise my rent, it's going to be $2,000-ish. But I'm sorry, I don't have an in-unit washer, dryer, I'm ready for an.

Upgrade here. Okay, that's your choice if you choose to do that. I mean, if you go to 2,000, you're still not... I mean, you're going over 25 % if you do that of your take-home pay.

Right. Okay, is 25 % the metric that I should.

Be wearing? When we talk about buying a house, it definitely is. And in your case with Baby Step Two, I would still consider that a framework. I like where you're at now, and I want you to move up in a... In a hotel. My goodness. I want you to move up in apartment. Is there any way that you can save it until after you pay off the step? Because here's the thing, that extra $800 or $750, we're talking about months of freedom there. And you've got to really weigh the opportunity cost of whether you take that extra $750 and get your end unit, because it feels like that's a celebratory thing for you or a status thing like, Listen, I deserve this. I've been working hard. I've been in law school. Give me the apartment I want, and I understand that. But man, oh, man, having that extra 750 over the course of time, knocking out these student loans, that is a big, big deal. I do want you to weigh that heavily. Have you done the math out on that?

You're absolutely right. I have done the math out on that, and it's not pretty.

What about a roommate? Willing.

Not.

Willing. Yeah. If he's ready to do that, he doesn't want to live with anybody.

Well, look, you got to make a decision. I just think this is a bad idea. I think it's a bad idea for you to increase your expenses right now when it's really not that big of a lifestyle issue. I get why you feel the way you feel, but now we're always going to give you the advice that says, sacrifice, sacrifice, sacrifice, because we want you to get free sooner, as Jade said. We're not going to be in.

Favor of that. You're bringing home $6,800. How much of that is going towards your debt at this point?

Right now, I put about $2,000 per month to student loans. Okay, so- I picked an income-driven repayment plan. This is before I became obsessed with the Dave Ramsey show on YouTube. Now my payments are 600 something dollars, which is laughable. I've been overpaying my payments.

What.

Law do you practice?

Worker's comp.

What's the ladder look like over the next 1-3 years financially?

When you say ladder, how much more can I make over the next.

1-3 years? Yeah, with a lot of ground. I want to know how you can increase this income because that's what needs to happen. We need to be busting it.

Well, staying where I currently am, which I'm planning on doing, I could probably go up to probably 1:30, 1:40 over the next three years.

Okay, no freelance opportunities?

Not really. The firm that I'm at, I would need to disclose and get.

Approval for a lot of what I'm doing. You understand why I'm asking that, right? $200,000 is very doable with your ability, but you're going to have to increase your income, this is going to be a long journey.

Yes and no. Yes, you do need to increase your income. But I think 2,000... Are you single? Yes?

I'm single, yeah.

I think 2,000, if you're making 6,800 a month, you have no other payments besides this. I think 2,000 a month is a little wimpy.

Okay, what would not be wimpy?

I think that there's areas in your budget that you can cut more. And I sense that because I'm looking at the numbers. And I also sense that because you're creeping up on wanting another apartment already. And so I just sense that there's things in your life that you're like, Listen, I've earned this. I want to spend my money on this. And that's true. But again, you're weighing that opportunity cost. I think you can squeak another $500 or $1,000 out of this budget. I think you need to do what Ken did and you need to get your income up. I don't want this taking you eight years to pay off. That's far too long. I want this done in four years, and you can do that.

Yeah, good stuff. Thanks for the call. Glad you've joined our community. Stay with us. You will get through this. All right, we're just getting started, folks. Merry Christmas to one and all don't move. More of your calls coming up. This is The Ramsey Show. Look, life.

Insurance has one job.

To replace your.

Income for your.

Dependents if you die. That's it. So if.

Someone.

Tries to sell you.

High-cost life insurance.

That doubles as.

Savings or an investment strategy.

Scams.

Like whole life.

Cash value, variable.

Life, then run. Term life from Xander insurance is a much.

Smarter way to.

Protect your family's future.

Xander shops all the top companies to find you the most affordable term-life rates. Then you can go build wealth with what you save, not.

By falling for those crap policies. Go to zander.

Com to learn more.

That's zander.

Com or 800-356-4282.

Welcome back to.

The Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warsaw joins me. We are here for you, America. Triple-888-255, 5225 is the phone number. Triple-888-255, 225. Taking your questions about money. I'm in the chair today. Let's take any questions about personal and professional growth, decisions about maybe starting a business. When do I go from side hustle to full-time? Hey, I'm stuck. I need a promotion. I'm not getting any work-related questions because those are always money-related, and we'd love to take some of those as well. So jump in, triple-eight, 825, 5, 225. And if you want to stay with us, if it's like, Well, we're getting... This is the second to the last Friday of the year, am I right? Did I get that right? That feels right. And you're just like, I think I'll hang out today. You don't want to miss next hour. Jade has got another special treat. I get to sample it. There's another clue.

You're really hyping this up, Ken.

Well, I even broke out the cardigan today, the new cardigan sweater.

You look like a stickle of bourbon.

A.

Stickle?

That feels right. I don't know what that is, but that doesn't offend me at all. It feels right. Let's get to Stephen in Houston, Texas. Stephen, how can we help?

Hi, guys. Thanks for taking the call.

You bet. What's going on?

I'm looking for some advice. Me and my wife just recently got on the Ramsey Plan. We're on baby step two. I'm a full-time high school teacher, and I've taken a part time EMS job when I'm out on vacation and on the weekends and stuff. And I do some food delivery to try to just pack as much money as we can to this debt. But I'm afraid that my wife's getting overwhelmed by it.

Because you're not home.

What's going on, man? You're pretty emotional right now. What are you feeling?

You know, it's like a baby Christian. I don't want to... I don't want to be so intense that she's like, Oh, you won't let us do anything, and this and that.

What's going on? I don't know how to have that conversation. Well, take us to what's going on with you guys relationally. What are you feeling from her? What are you hearing from her that you would call us about this?

Well, for instance, she works full-time at home. We have two kids. So when I'm like, All right, I'm going to go. I have a goal to make $50 a day with food delivery. Five days a week, so that's an extra thousand dollars a month. And then on Saturdays, I go work this EMS job, which are 24-hour chefs. Oh, man. And that's extra $350 each day I do that. But she's still like, Well, you think you can stay home tonight so that we can clean the house and get ready for our Christmas brunch that's coming up? I'm like, Well, you think that maybe you could pick up a little bit of that so that we can continue to stay on plan.

Okay, I see what's going on here.

Yeah. And then I get negative feedback. Well, so now you're not here to help around in the house and stuff like that.

Let me ask a couple of clarifying questions. When you said she works full-time, does she work full-time as a stay at home mom, or does she work full-time at a job that is work from home?

Yeah, a job that.

Work from home. Okay, but the kids are also there, too, so that falls on her as well.

Right, when they're not in school. Right now, we're on.

Christmas break. I totally get that. Okay, and then can you tell me how much debt do you guys have? Because I'm trying to understand. I get the intensity, but I just want to get a bigger picture.

Okay, so we have about $26,000 in cars and credit cards.

Break it down. What's the cars and what's the credit cards?

My wife's car is almost paid off. It's got $3,000 left. My truck's got 11,000 left. And then we have about 15,000 in credit cards and then another $10,000 around that that I owe to my mother-in-law.

What's the payoff date? If you didn't miss any night schedule, you've got this thing figured out. If you stay on this pace, what do you anticipate the day would be? How far in the future before you pay off this debt?

I told my wife we can do it in six months, not our house. I have.

A house. Sure. Let me just tell you. I don't do anything with it. I'm not doing anything with it. Stephen, man to man here. I love this intensity, but this is a six-month window. It'd be different if this were a six-year and you guys had to be that intense. I love the intensity. I think you have to downshift in moments like this. When your wife is giving you the signal, you read it, man. You've been married long enough, going after it. But if there's a holiday party and the situation you gave us, I think the answer, and this is not criticism, you called. I'm going to tell you as a dude, just my take here in that situation, you take the night off from Gazelle intensity, and you jump in and help her out. I think if you guys were in much bigger debt and it were far more intense, I think there's a conversation to be had to say, Hey, babe, I got to do this. We got to be all in. But I think given this situation, I don't think this is three or four nights a week, I think you sit down with her and go, Hey, I'm doing this to sprint.

Hang in there. But if you need that emergency situation, raise your hand and I'm going to be more sensitive next time and I'll jump in. That would be my take in this situation. Okay.

What to you guys' combined income yearly? You mentioned all the things you're doing, but what does that amount to?

That's recent, the EMS job and stuff. Right now, we make about 110 gross together. We're just at a regular jobs. I'm looking to bring in... I got a plan to bring in 3,000 extra a month, so about 30,000 more, so maybe about 140,000 if I.

Stay on this track. Okay, so you're basically saying our normal budget stays the same and I'm side hustling to pay off. I get it.

That causes a little trouble, too, because then we strip the budget way down as well. We cut off some streaming services.

Well, that's what I'm saying. It almost needs to be one or the other because you've got $39,000 of debt and you just outlined a plan where you're side hustling to bring in an extra almost $40,000. If the side hustling alone is paying off the debt, then I'm trying to find a way where you guys can balance this out a little bit more. Does that make sense? Because if you-.

Okay, yeah, I understand.

-if you're going to bring in $40,000 a year and this is a full year play, as opposed to you just trying to, to Ken's point, just squeak this thing out in six months, I do think that if you can get her on board, fine. But like Ken said, if she's having these moments where she's throwing a flag on the play like, Listen, we haven't seen you. We don't even remember what you look like, dude. You have to cool out for a minute, right? Yeah. I think that... I think there's room for you to take the pedal off the metal just a little bit.

Right, great. Because I don't want to burn her out. I guess that's what I was looking for to say- It's very smart.

Your.

Instincts are right. Yeah. She's like a baby bird. Sometimes you got to.

Get them to keep.

Coming.

To you. Stephen, I think your instincts are right. You called us. We're validating your instincts. Your instincts are right. You're pushing really hard, and it's affecting her, and you don't want to lose her in the midst of this cause. The cause is not as important as her and the kids.

Right, because it's not. At that point, what's the point?

Especially during this season.

That's right. But listen, my man, she seems to be all in. We heard no signs of her not being all in. It's just, Hey, we got a holiday party, and I'm swamped with the kids, and I'm exhausted. I also think it's important for you to show some appreciation to her for her being all in. You know what? Maybe take a night, come on up in the next couple of weeks, and totally surprise her and say, Hey, babe, here's a little money that I've been making on the side. I'll also go out with some of your best girlfriends. Have a nice night. I'll take care of the kids.

All right, Ken Kahlman.

What do you think, Jade? I think that's a teamwork play.

That's a teamwork play.

Listen, I'm honoring all the moms out there because my wife has done both. Stacey has fluctuated between being a work out of the home and a work in the home. Notice I say work in the home because that's a lot of work. There are times where it's really good, guys, for us to just acknowledge the partner in the situation and say, Hey, you know what? I appreciate you being on board.

I want to show some love here. What it is is when you're going at that pace, you have to ahead of time say what the milestones are going to be. When we pay off this car, we get this. When we do this, and it sounds like they don't have those milestones in place, and that is so important.

You need a cheat day, you know these big-time athletes? That's right. I follow the rock. No big deal.

I like.

The rock. Listen, those cheat meals? Have you seen the man's cheat meals? Yes. It's pretty fantastic. So even one of the greatest athletes, actors get after guys in the world. You got those down days. I think mama needs a little time off every once in a while, and you can fund that. And then we keep going with great momentum. Stephen, you're a good man and a good husband. This is The Rangid Show. Hey, guys, buying a home is not a button push. It's a process, and it takes.

Building a.

Relationship with an expert to dig into details to provide sound strategy.

For peace of mind. It's worth a.

10-minute call with.

Churchill, Morgan. I'm here today to talk with a human expert who.

Can.

Help you.

Buy a home the Ramsey way.

Go to churchillmortgage.

Com today to learn more. This is a paid advertisement. An MLS ID 1591 and mlsconsumeraccess. Org, equal housing lender. 1749, Mallory Lane, Sweet 100. Brentwood, Tennessee, 37027. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, Jade Warsaw. Joins me in studio. We're here for you, America. 2025, 225, taking your money questions, your work questions. It's a good time to be thinking about next year, and we are here for you. The question of the day is brought to you by Naverley, your hub for home services. Naverley has local service providers who can repair, maintain and improve your home. Ladies, if you're married to a guy like me, you need Naverley because I can't do Jack Diddy's squat around the house. That's why Stacey is happy for Naverly. Their network of experts offer top quality work and customer service by trained, reliable service providers. Find the help you need at neighborly. Com/ramsey today.

Today's question comes from Sarah in Arizona. Can I donate money in baby step two? My husband and I disagree about this. I made my husband... I made my husband do FPU and agreed to the principals before I would even accept his proposal. Wow. Dang, son. We just got married in September, and we are officially on a budget with combined finances. We have a good income, around 400,000 combined, but our debt snowball is more of a debt wrecking ball right now, 448,000 in total debt. I have always given $100 a month to charities, and I put these as line items on our combined budget. My husband says giving is for baby step seven, and this money should come out of my discretionary spending if I want to keep giving. I say it is not $100 a month that is going to derail us from reaching our goals. I'm still tweaking the budget, but right now I have our individual allowance at $200 each month. Can you please be the arbitrator of this debate? Gladly.

I need to get you one of those black robes, and you're Judge Jade right now. I need to give you a gavel, too. What say you.

Judge Jade? I see a lot in this, so I'm just going to pick it apart. This woman is strong. Oh, you think? Okay, I do not want to mess with Sarah. I know. Sarah is coming in hot. Okay, here's what I'm going to say about giving, and then I'm going to go back through this thing. I do think it's important to give. I think giving is an important practice that you do all the time, all the time, even in baby step two. Now, pause for a second. I'm going to tell you my perspective, and you have the ability, Sarah, to put this make it make sense for you depending on your belief system. I'm a Christian person. The way I believe is you just give 10% off the top all the time, and you give that 10% to your local church. That's what I believe. That's a spiritual practice for me, but it's also a financial practice and generosity for me. So even while Sam and I were in baby step two with almost the same amount of debt as what you have, Sarah, but with the smaller income, we continue to give not $100 a month, but 10% of whatever we brought in.

For me, the reasoning behind that is not just, like I said, a spiritual one, but it is a practice and just good financial principle. Because at the end of the day, and this is for everybody listening, when you have an open hand, the money is sitting in your hand, money can easily get out, but it also means money can easily get back in. That's a wonderful thing to know. It's just a blessing. We say it all the time, giving is the most fun you can have with money. I agree with you in principle. Yes, you should continue to give. Matter of fact, up it. If you're making $400,000 a year and you want to give 10%, well, there you have it. What your husband is talking about, baby step seven, he says giving is for Baby Step 7, that really is if you give above and beyond. If you're like, Listen, we've been at this lower mark of giving for a while. We're ready to increase. There's some dreams that I have. Yeah, Baby Step 7 is the time to do that. I might just... It might just be the way it's written. Maybe just ease up a little, Sarah.

Just maybe pull back a little bit. You're very strong. All of these things sound like, I told my husband we're doing this, and I told him we're doing this, and you're dragging him by the collar. She got him the collar on the wall, you know what I'm saying? I think that might make him feel a little... He might be feeling some type of way, and maybe this is a way where he feels like he can get a little control back, because sometimes relationships get to be a bit of a power struggle. This feels more about a power struggle than it really does about giving, I'm not going to lie, just reading it. I may be wrong. Ken Coleman?

I think you're right. I think the language implies her attitude towards him. You don't want to take too many liberties with just a one-sided email. But yeah, it feels like this is not a partnership. This is a dictatorship is what it feels like. I think you're right. The budget needs to be adapted to include the giving that you're talking about based on what we teach. Absolutely. I agree with you lockstep. Man.

I get it, though.

Money creates enough tension, us telling the spouse how things are going to be, that doesn't lend itself to long-term financial partnership.

It doesn't. I mean, Sarah, hear me loud and clear. I have a Mr. T. Personality as well. Okay, like-.

I pity the fool.

I pity the fool. I come in hot. Like Sam Warshaugh, he could tell you right now, I come in hot. When I read that, I recognized that. We sometimes we have to pull back a little bit. We stomp in the room, you know what I'm saying? We just.

Chill out. Guys, even if she does stomp in the room, never say that she stomps in the room. There's a little bit of advice to all the dudes out there. We float. Man, I'm already getting nervous. I feel like I'm on eggshells already. I'm ready to move on. By the way, the illustrious, incomparable, Sam Warsaw, is in the lobby. He gave me a look. He leaned over and gave me a look when you said that. That's all he did. I don't know what that means. I'll find out afterwards. Oh, boy, that's good stuff. All right, Brittany is up next in New Orleans, or as I like to say, Nolans. What's going on, Brittany? Hi, Tim. How are you guys? We're having a blast. What are you up to?

I'm working at Snowball, but I have.

A question. Hey, before you ask a question, I got to know. When you live in the New Orleans area, does everybody have beignets around Christmas? Is that a Christmas morning thing?

I prefer sweet potato around this time of.

The year personally. I just want you know, I order every year a box of the dough from Cafe du Monde, and we do beignets Christmas morning.

Wow. Yeah, that's my treat. Anyway, sorry I got distracted. Brittany, what can we answer for you? No, they're good. Yeah, they are good.

Okay, so I'm working on my debt snowball, and the next debt I have coming up is a personal loan for $5,000. Now, I was previously married before, and so this is a loan that I hold with my ex-husband. When we split, we did agree to split it 50-50, and we've been paying the monthly payment since we split. Now, it's the next thing in my debt snowball, so obviously I'm trying to figure out what to do because he does not have his half of the $5,000 to pay it off currently.

Who do youre all allowed to? I'm allowed to pay the money to?

One man.

Okay. It's a personal loan from a bank, not like grandma loan you money. Is he good for it? Tell me what guy this is. Is this the type of guy who's going to pay it?

He's been paying it monthly. He's late sometimes, but he always gives it.

But- Is it in both of your names?

-for the most part, yes, it's in both of our names.

I'd probably pay my half and set it aside. And then by the time I get done with my debt, snowball. If he still hasn't paid it, I'm going to pay it and move on.

Okay, that's what I was thinking. Should I just pay the whole thing?

Now here's the thing. If you start to see because... Here's the thing. You pay half of this and there's still a monthly payment due, so you need to monitor this. And if you see, listen, he's not making his payment. This interest is racking up and the bill is going up. It's not going down. You need to reach over and just pay it off immediately. But if you see, okay, he's making his payment, this is working because $2,500 is a lot of money. I might change my mind. Hold on a second. How much more do you have in your debt snowball?

If I sell my car, which I plan on doing, I don't have about 40k left.

40k left. And how much is the car worth?

The car is like 20.

All right. If you don't sell that car because I think that's a big part of this, pay your half and watch it, all right? Watch it every month because I don't want this going back. If you see even one month that he's late, reach over and pay it off. All right?

Thank you for the call, Brittany. When you said reach, I thought you said reach over and cuff him right in the back of the head. But no. She could try that too. She could try that too. Hey, Brittany, you're doing awesome. You're on your way and nobody's going to stop you. Thanks for the call. Great advice. Jade, all right, don't move, folks. We got to pay a couple of bills and we'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, it's Dr. John Deloney. This time of can be great, but the holidays can cause anxiety for a lot of people, especially about giving gifts. Maybe your family makes super thoughtful, handmade things, or they demand you buy really expensive things, or maybe you just like experiencing time together, or you all just pick up random gift cards last minute. No matter how your family does gifting, remember to take care of yourself. Whether it's going easier on yourself during tough moments or treating yourself to a day of rest from everyone and everything, remember to give yourself some love this holiday season. And if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try.

Betterhelp is flexible because it's online, so it can fit into your busy holiday schedule. Just fill out a short questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists anytime for no extra charge. In the season of giving, give yourself what you need with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp. Com/daloney today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P. Com/daloney. Welcome back, America. You've joined the conversation about your life, specifically your money, your work, and your relationships. We want you winning in all three of those areas. That's why we do this show, The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw joins me. Triple-8-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in. Triple 8-8-5-5-2-2-5. Let's go to Toronto, Canada. Max joins us there. Max, how can we help?

Hey, Ken. Thank you guys so much for having me on.

Can you hear me okay? Yes, sir. What's going on?

Awesome. Yeah. So I'll just give you the question, and then I guess we can dive into it. I'm 23, graduated university two years ago now and thinking of moving on from my first full-time job and taking a shot as an entrepreneur doing some social media and YouTube content.

Okay. And what do you make in your full-time job?

So right now, I'm at 80,000. I also have a side hustle that I'm doing about 5K a month.

Oh, wow. What's the side hustle?

Yeah, so I'm running this company called Odds Jam, and it's a little bit weird, but with a lot of the new sports, books, and gambling companies coming to Canada, there's a lot of opportunities for different promotions and things like that. Using the software, I've been able to have success on average about 5K a month the past year.

Wow. Where does the YouTube social media venture that you mentioned, is this related at all to the work you just described? That's the side hustle, or is it completely separate?

No, it would be completely separate. My game plan would be to continue to do the side hustle and then leave this full-time job and then be able to fully dive into doing 60, 80 hours a week on the YouTube.

Do you have any debt right now? Nope, no debt. No debt at all. You're single?

I have a girlfriend of three years.

Girlfriend of three years. What content are you planning to do? Social media and YouTube?

Yeah, so it would be in the self-improvement, self-development space, specifically geared to a target audience of young men probably within the age of 14 to 22. A lot of it would be either fitness-related, mental health, building self-discipline, confidence, and stuff with how to have success with women as well as business.

Have you done any of that content before, or is this just an idea?

I haven't done any of that content before, but I am publishing a 300-page self-improvement book in January. That's going to be coming in the next month, and all of the things I talk about in the book are going to be directly related to the content I'm doing on the channel.

All right, well, then based on what you've told me, I think what I would do if I were you is I would release that book, proud of you for that. I think that's great. I would start doing this content now. I would not go all in. To me, it just is not worth taking a $20,000 pay cut. I love that you're making 80K in a day job that is allowing you enough bandwidth mentally to be making 60,000. You're on pace to make $60,000 a year in a side hustle. I wouldn't just immediately walk away from the ADK and to go all in on the social because I don't think that's the right strategy. I think what I would do is I would come up with a strategy to test this. What's a legitimate test? I'm making this up. Please don't let me hang this on you. I want Jay to weigh in here in a second on this, too. But I would be thinking, social and YouTube, is it three videos a week? Is it one? How many posts a day? Get whatever you think is a legitimate test, not be all-and-all. Because remember, starting a social media side also should have the same mindset as starting a regular brick-and-mortar business.

Meaning, I'm not going to go all in on a bunch of inventory, buy a building, I'm going to lease, I'm going to do a small inventory. I'm going to test this stuff. To me, I would stay put doing exactly what you're doing now. What I would do is I would commit 20 hours a week to it, 15, whatever you can do. Let's go full-blown test because you could still hustle right now, put out enough content to test it and see is there anything there. Then what I would like to see is social media, this new side hustle, the personal development stuff. I'd like to see that getting to a point where you can see it generating 20,000 so that we replace the ADK from the day job. There's just zero reason for you to risk right now.

Also, that book, when did you say the book comes out?

The launch is planned for the end of January of this year.

Okay.

2024, I guess.

I'm just asking, is this something you've done on your own, like you found a publisher and you did this? Or is there some deal that you got because of something you did and there's a little bit more hooplaw around it? Can you tell us the - The self-published? -the seriousness of this? Yeah.

I wrote the entire book myself, and then I worked with another publishing company in Canada, which helped me with cover design, going through the manuscript, going over everything with a fine toothcomb.

But it's up to you to market it. Yeah, exactly. Okay, so I think to Ken's point, that book is going to be a big test for you, too, because you're going to look and say, Okay, is it selling? Are people interested in this topic? What's the feedback? On Amazon, you'll be able to read those reviews and see everything that's going on with that book. So that's one of the ways you'll test it. But Ken and I can both tell you from social media. Before I came to Ramsey, I started a channel, and it is hard work. People like to look at influencers and go, Oh, you're an influencer. How hard could it be? I'm like, No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's hard work. It's very hard to get people... I mean, it's a constant competition to make sure your content is what people want to see. Do you plan on having somebody to help you with it, or are you... Is the first step just you doing it on your own?

Yeah, so my thought process with, and I know that this is someone you guys have on the show, Alex, and something that you said is a lot of people that have one foot in the door, one foot out the door. And that's why I wanted to quit and go full-time in it because I feel something Ken talks about it as well as I don't necessarily have the career capital in terms of editing video skills and stuff, but I feel that the skill I do have is great communication. I have a belief in myself that if I commit to this for a three-year time window, let's say, and I'm doing 68 hours a week on it, I believe I can be successful. It's more so just having that time that I don't really have working nine to five. And regarding what Ken said earlier, 20 hours a week, something like that. No, I do think that I can do that, but a big part of it is also fitness, right? So I'm in the gym probably two, three hours a day. So on top of my nine to five and the side hustle, I don't really have a lot of free time in the day per se.

So that's why I'm at a bit of a crossroads.

If that makes sense to you. Well, let me address, because I've interviewed Alex and know Alex. I want to address what you said. I think it's correct what he has said, but there's also scaling involved, and there's a season when we're testing, and then there's a season when we scale. What I heard you say is quit everything and go 80 hours a week to be able to do this. Did I hear that correctly?

I would still do the side hustle that I'm doing, the August.

The fifth thing, but obviously, I'm trying to put- How many hours a week do you have to put into that that's making you 5k a month?

Probably two hours a day, every day.

Okay. Well, listen, I'm not going to tell you not to do it. I told you what I would do, and I would eventually ramp up. I'm with Alex that at some point you've got to go all in. I just don't think you're ready to go all in yet.

Yeah. How quickly? Okay, let'sry to think. Now you're replacing the $5,000 a month that you're making from your $80,000 job that you're netting. How quickly do you think by posting on social media and YouTube that you'll recoup that? In your mind, how quickly do you think?

I think if I.

Do two years.

How long? If I do two years, two years, that'd probably be 800 videos. I think I could have a good audience by then.

It's very speculative.

It's very speculative. I'm just saying it's very speculative. Because, again, this is from somebody who's doing what you're saying to do. I did it for two and a half years, and I had just started making money. When I say money, I mean a little bit of money. Not anything close to bank. Just a little bit of money, having some opportunities to.

Interact with people. And Max, she's really good. She's really winsome. I'm just going to be honest with you. I mean, people like looking at her and listening to what she says. She's dynamic, and it took her that long. She's a big time performer. I would just rather you take my advice, not because I think I'm right. And you'll get there. But because I think it's not going to hurt you. You got to try this. I know you don't have a lot of time to be able to crank out, but start working that gym time into video time. If you're in the gym for two hours, then figure out a way to film it.

Film the whole.

Time, yeah. You got some extra money, I'd hire somebody to be following you around. That's what Alex does. Alex has got a guy that's full-time, follows around, shooting stuff and editing. I'd rather you keep the day job, invest some of that money and somebody filming you while you're at the gym for two hours, but test it. Then when we know it's really working, then we scale it, Jay. I just don't want you to go backwards financially, Max, but I love your heart and your desire. Thanks for the call. Jayd Warslaw, good hour. Thank you, my friend. To our fearless leader, old captain, our captain, James Childs, and the fearless crew in the booth. Thank you, guys. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life, specifically with your money, in your work, and through your relationships, triple-888-255-225. That's the number to jump in. Jade Warslaw joins me. I'm Ken Coleman, and we are thrilled to be with you to answer your questions. We're for you. Let us coach you up today. 8255, 225, Jade specializing in the money questions.

I'll specialize in any work-related questions. We'll tag team any question that comes in, and we believe that your best days are ahead. Triple 828255, 225, special segment coming up later this hour. Jade, I want you to tease it however you choose to tease it, because these are my favorite segments of all segments. I don't care if Dave's listening, George, Rachel, John, I don't care. This is why I love co-hosting The Ramsey Show. Is that.

A setup? Okay, King, you didn't have to fire shots, but yes. Why?

That's.

Fantastic. That's great. This is great. Yeah, we're talking about... It's the holidays, right? Christmas is coming up this weekend, and then you got New Year's and hosting parties can. There's always these expectations. How can we save money and have a great contribution in the midst of that?

We are going to have a test, a taste off. That's right. I'm going to be subjecting myself to your tips. That's right. Then I am just supposed to comment, and this is my favorite thing to do. That's right. There will be beverages.

Can you tell the difference between a $10 bottle of wine and a $30 bottle.

Of wine? We're about to find out. In this sweater today, you would think I would know, but I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if it's all surface or if I have a pallet that is good enough, so we'll see. You don't want to miss it. You're actually going to learn something and save money, thanks to my bright colleague over here. It's going to be a lot of fun. I can't wait. I'm already getting hungry and thirsty. Let's go to Rebecca in Portland, Maine. Rebecca, how can we help?

Hi, good afternoon. Hi, everybody. How are you doing?

Good afternoon, Rebecca. How can we help?

Hi. I'm trying to figure out how I can get started on paying down all of my debt. What I had told the dispatchers when I called in was that, so we are on Section 8 voucher, and so it goes by income. Between that and then my son's SSI, our income is limited. I've got already that collective calling me and our rent's going up in a week and a half after the first. I'm trying to figure out how I can start slowly paying down these debts given what our new budget is going to be.

Okay, how much debt do you have total?

That's roughly about, I would take educated guess, $5,000.

$5,000. And it's what, credit cards? Credit card, yes. Okay, so 5k credit card debt. And that's it. What about transportation? What's your situation there?

We just ended up actually having to junk our car about two weeks ago. So right now we don't have a vehicle. We try to take public transit up here, but the public transit isn't very good. Busses here run about once every two hours.

Oh, man.

Yeah, we've been having, We've been having to take a lot of Lyft and Ubers around. So I'd say about weekly with that. I have to do two a day. I'd say that I rounded up to about $20 for $20.

Yeah, that's expensive.

Okay. I'm going to say probably about $100, $120 a week.

On with an Uber. Yeah, so we need a car. Okay, now you outlined a little bit of the Section 8 and the SSI. I'm not an expert on that, so I might ask you a lot of questions. How much are you bringing in? And are there any limitations on your income because of the SSI?

Okay, so with SSI, my son's SSI is based off of my husband's income for that type of fluctuate. I know for January, he'll be getting roughly on the off to about 800 a month starting in January, but that could change in the future. What my husband gets biweekly after taxes, etc, is taking out is about 1,500 after taxes. And then what was the last thing? Our rent is going up after the first to just over $1,600. And obviously with any programs, whether Section A or any Medicaid programs, they count everything pre-tax. So this is net pay that I'm.

Talking about. So you get $1,600. The section that you pay $1,600 towards, that's what it's worth?

Yes.

Okay. All right. So I'm looking at your income and I'm like, okay, I'm seeing $2,300. Is that right? The $800 from SSI and the $1500 from your husband?

Oh, he gets biweekly. I should say, sorry, about $1,500 biweekly.

Your husband? Yes. Okay, so $3,000 a month.

Yes.

Then the $800 from SSI, so $3,800 is what you're working with total?

Yes.

Okay. Now, what happens if you bring in more money?

I have to report it to our local housing agency, and then they have to have to wait and calculate what our rent is going to be, which is part of the reason why I haven't worked. I'm also disabled and I have two disabled. Two out of my three kids are on the autism spectrum, so they're considered disabled. But yeah, so it does affect our housing and anything else we get. Right now, we don't get SNAP because we're over income.

For SNAP. Okay, I'm going to just throw out a bunch of stuff and you poke holes in it, but I'm going to throw it out here. And Ken, you're the career guy. What I know is there's a lot of work from home positions, a lot, a lot, a lot. And you're talking to me on the phone, and I know exactly what's going on. You're here with me. So my question is, is there anything that you can do from home? You're working on your computer, you're working on the phone lines. I don't want you stuck in this, and I don't think you have to stay stuck in this. $1,600, a $2,000... I mean, a guy called in the other day that was his rent. I want you to consider your options here. I think that when you feel backed into a corner, you're backed into a corner. But I want you to really challenge yourself to open your mind up to look like, What could I do? What could I do to make $3,000 a month? Because suddenly, if you make $3,000 a month, now you almost got $7,000 a month, and now we're getting into a regular income zone, right?

Right. The average, before you say well, but average is around 67,000, okay? That's average, around 67,000 a year combined. That's where most people are.

Real quick, because we're running out of time. This is an income plate. Yeah. Rebecca, what does your husband make really quick?

$3,800 a month.

$3,800 a month. Okay, if you're making-.

Roughly annually about, I'm going to say between 50.

And 52. Rebecca, here's the deal. I understand your situation with your kids, but this is the pitfall of government programs. You feel like you can't make more money because then they're going to penalize you and you need these services. But I'm telling you, you making more money gets you out of government housing, get you off, and you guys can.

Afford it. It's messing.

With your confidence. You have got to be making more money. If you just make an $18-hourabout $18 an hour, that's going to put you right to shade under $3,000 a month that Jade's talking about. Listen, your ability to move forward on all of this and getting a car, I'm looking at cars right now, $4,000 for a Toyota Corolla in Portland, Maine, 142,000 miles. Go make money, get transportation. Go make money, get out of government housing. Go make money, supplement your kid's services. This is about increasing your income. Getting out of debt is going to give you freedom. You guys can do this, but you have to attack it like their life and your life depends on it. This is The Ramsey Show. Fake it till you make it. It's popular career advice, but it doesn't work for very long. If you don't love what you do, you can't fake the enthusiasm and energy you need to win at work. You also can't fake your physical health and energy. Everybody knows we should eat more fruits and veggies, but fruit chews and vegetable chips don't count. If you aren't winning physically, I promise you're limiting your opportunities to win professionally.

Folks, I know you're going hard right now to pay off debt and get ahead professionally. You need another gear, and that's why Balance of Nature will help you. They help me. They give me the benefits of fresh, whole fruits and veggies in just seconds. The blend of 31 different fruits and veggies is powdered in an advanced process that locks in the nutrients. So go to balanceofnature. Com and enter the promo code, Ramsey, get 35% off your first order and lock in a lifetime price as a preferred customer. That's balanceofnature. Com with the promo code, Ramsey, for 35% off your first order. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by Jade Warsaw. The phone number to jump in is triple-888255225. We want to help you out on your money questions, your work-related questions. Let's go to Brent in Philadelphia. Brent, how can we help? Can you hear me okay? I can, Brett. What's going on?

Hey, thank you so much for taking my call, you guys. Cain, just really quick, I actually just ordered your book a few days ago, From Paycheck to Purpose. That's probably going to help me get some ideas with my career. But the main issue or the main question I have today involves our second baby. We just found out a couple of weeks ago we're having our second child.

Very nice. Very nice. Congrats.

Thank you. I appreciate it. So with that in mind, we're trying to find some prenatal care and we're looking at using a midwife. But we're trying to figure out how to cash flow it. I just went through the numbers through our insurance company and found that the midwife is a lot more affordable, but it's still going to be about $6,500 out of our pocket before insurance will even cover it. We have a pretty high deductible plan. But our finances are pretty tight at the moment. So I'm just looking for a little advice on maybe ways that we could possibly cash flow it or maybe step up in the work department.

What's making the finances tight right now?

Well, I think it's more of like... I don't know if it's necessarily an income issue. Currently, I bring home about $4,000 a month, so about $48,000 a year. Our mortgage currently is about $1,266 a month. We currently owe about $169,000 on our house. Okay. And then currently, we have a couple of debts. I have some student loans that just went back into repayment. Now, you guys have spoken of that often. So I've got about $39,000 there and then $11,000 and a % low. Okay. I'm crunching the numbers on there. Currently with all of our current expenses, we've been trying to cut in different areas, but we're only ending up with maybe a couple of hundred dollars extra a month, if that.

Like two or three? Hundred extra a month?

Yeah, two or three.

Hundred a month. Okay, yeah.

I'm listening- Why do you say that it's not an income thing?

It.

Definitely is. Because I thought, well, Jade is going to sit down and help you with that budget. But after you walk through all this, you're telling me there's not a lot of fat, and then you're saying it's not an income thing, so I'm confused.

Okay.

It is an income thing. It is. You get my point?

Yeah, I get it.

I jumped in there real quick. I want to get back to Jade. But if I'm you, I'm looking at $6,500 as a number that I'm circling on a piece of paper. I go, As a dad, as a husband, I got to come up with $6,500 for this situation, and I've got nine months and counting. You got nine months. It's ticking down. That's right. I start with... What's that?

Go ahead.

You need to find the thousand extra dollars a month.

That's what it boils down to.

You need to find the thousand extra dollars a month.

Get after it, my friend. I'd be dividing it by 9, by 6,500, and now I know what my mark is, and I got to get.

After it. And, comma, and, that's the first thing because that you can go out and door-dash that, right? You can instacart your way into that. Ken, I don't want him instacarting forever. No. You're bringing another person into this world, and these people can eat. Okay, these babies eat, and when they turn three years old, it just is off to the races. You're going to need to find a way long term to increase beyond $4,000 a month. Ken Coleman, take.

The wheel. I just want to ask you real quick. Until we talk about the future, what are you doing now for the job?

Currently, I work for a large automotive manufacturer. I'm one of their field service reps.

What does that mean?

So basically, I'm on technical support for dealerships.

Like computers?

So if you have a mechanic, someone that turns wrenches on your car at a dealership, whenever they have questions, if they have a car that they can't fix, basically, they can reach out to me and I step in and give them advice on how to fix it.

Wow! So you're consulting mechanics?

Essentially, yes.

Which means you can fix cars?

Yes.

It feels like that is a awesome way to be making some extra money, is taking one of your top skills that is at a premium. Are you laughing?

I'm just laughing because I've actually been tossing around the idea of maybe tinkering and flipping some equipment on.

The side. My friend, I would stop tossing the idea around and I'd grab a hold of it and do it. Because listen, I'm not knocking DoorDash or delivering pizzas. The Ramsey Show is never going to knock any work. However, time is money. Have you ever heard that old phrase? So using your premium skills, meaning the skills that I can get the most money for my time, is the play for you right now. You fixing stuff up and flipping it, I stink and love that idea. There's real money in that. Again, we've got a target. I love what Jade is saying long term. We're now going, Okay, what do I want to do? Because the reason you bought my book is because you're thinking about the long term, 15 years, 20 years down the road. What does that life look like? What are you doing for work that far down the road?

Yeah, that's true.

But what are you thinking? You got an idea?

Well, I think that's part of why I wanted to start thinking because there are jobs available farther down the line, at least for my career, but they're all back where the company is based. It's one.

Of the big manufacturers in Michigan. Hey, Brent, when I asked you that question, you had an answer, and then you begin to think through it and you're dealing with some fear and doubt. I've coached almost 10,000 people on the Ken Coleman show who call me up and they act like they don't know what they want to do, and I always find out about two minutes in, they do. They're just afraid to say it. Because I'm your friend and your friend and we don't judge anybody, what's that thing that you've been thinking about that you want to do? Just say it.

Well, I'm... Let's see.

See, you're already trying to couch it. Just say it. I'll tell you if I think you're crazy.

I really want to work with doing some engineering type work. There we go. But the avenue to do that is to go back.

Go ahead. Go back to what?

We have to move back to Michigan. Right now we live in.

Pennsylvania.

But we'd have to move back to.

Michigan, which my wife is not. Why? That's the only place you can do that type of engineering work?

I could move to a job similar to the one I currently have for another company.

And move up that way. Brent, you know what engineering work you want to do, yes?

You.

Are limiting yourself to saying that you can only do it in the state of Michigan. Am I right? I don't think you're right. Why is that? Yeah, I know you think I'm right. Did you say you think I'm right? Yeah, I did. Yeah, okay. I'll tell you why, Jade. I think that's because, Brent, that's where you think you've got relationships, and that's the only place you can get that engineering work because you used to live there and you used to work there. I think you limit yourself because you struggle with a lot of self-doubt. Is this true, Brent? That's true. All right, Brent, now how is it that I know that? I've never met you before my life. I'll tell you how I know, and I can hear it on you. I'm not you. I'm telling you, my friend, that we all deal with that. I deal with doubt. Listen, Jay, we all deal with it. What I'm trying to get you to see real quick is that you have been limiting yourself based on your own beliefs. When I walk you through it, you laugh at yourself and chuckle, because you know, I'm just saying straight up common sense that Michigan and the previous company and the previous industry is not the only place that a guy with your talent and your passion and your experience and your desire can do engineering work.

Is that true or false? That's true. All right, then. Here's the deal back to the issue at hand. Start using that skill set right now because you got to come up with $6,500 to that midwife, and that's the best way for you to do it. Read the book from paycheck to purpose. It's going to be like me and your ear with the speech I just gave you. You, my friend, need to start to connect and begin to look without committing. Look around the country. Look for companies and industries where the engineering work that you are qualified to do, where you can do it. As you begin to look, you'll begin to see possibilities that you never saw before, Brent. Congratulations on that baby. But right now, my friend, $6,500 on a whiteboard, circle it and start getting after it. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, Jade Warsaw joins you. Hey, folks, if you're tuning in right now live or later and you're watching on, you're going, Should I hang around a little bit longer? Trust me, next segment, you don't want to miss it, Jade Warsaw, special segment, How to save money and still entertain the right way during the holiday season.

This is the gift that keeps on giving. Yes, it does. I can't wait. I'm excited. I get to sample whatever she's bringing in here. To me, it's just- You.

Just want snack skin.

You know what? I'm a simple man. I'm very excited about that. All right, Clara is up in Louisville, Kentucky. Clara, how can we help?

Hey, guys. I am thrilled to be able to talk to you guys.

Well, we are thrilled to talk to you. What's happening?

I have a question more for Jade, my money girl.

I'm going to smoke a cigarette while you guys talk. This will be great.

We are looking at buying a house next year. We want to know if we're crazy or if we're rushing into it, or if our numbers are looking okay and what order we need to do things.

Okay, tell me more. Right now we have.

$6,200 on a credit.

Card.

$7,000 on a truck, and then a $20,000 home equity line of credit.

Since August.

We've paid.

Off.

$34,000 in credit card debt. Good. We're on a roll. My goal is to have the credit card in the truck paid off by March.

Okay. Then I.

Didn't know, do I not pay on the home while I pay the minimum payment on.

The home equity line.

Of credit and do our three to.

Six months.

Emergency savings? Then when we sell our house, pay that off and still have 20% to put down on the new house?

I'd pay it off. I'd work to pay it off for two reasons. A, it's less than half of the value of your home, I'm guessing. It's less than half. Yeah, we.

Owe.

124 on our.

House, and we could sell it for 230.

Yeah, because it's less than half of that 124, I'd go ahead and pay it off. Here's the thing. If you don't pay it off, it's going to cut into your winnings when you sell the house. You may as well pay it off so that money goes right back into your pocket. Again, it's that idea of a forced... You're forcing yourself to save the money by paying off this 20,000. Does that make sense? Okay. Yeah. You're going to get it back.

We still need the 3-6 months before we buy, or can we take that out of what we make on the house?

Again, it's what you're saying. I see what you're saying, but you need to get the 3-6 months in place first, and then when you sell the house, that money is going towards the next house.

Okay, just that whole chunk goes straight toward.

The next house. Because you're going to need it, right? Well, how much are you trying to put down?

Well, we would only need about $70,000 to put down. The house we're looking at is around $300.

Sorry, you told me this, but I missed it. When you sell the house, how much will it bring in total?

Two-thirty.

No, how much will you take home?

We should have.

About $110. $110. Is that after fees and you've considered all that? No, that's before. Okay, so let's consider fees and let's knock off 15, all right? Let's say you bring home 95. You're saying, hey, we never planned to put that full 95 down, and we can take some of that and put it as our emergency fund?

Right.

We still have.

The 20 %.

Listen, the way my mind works, I'm like, I want to put the full 95 % down or the full 95,000 down. Okay. How long will it take you to save up three to six months?

Maybe.

Two months. I would listen. Listen. Save up that three to six months. It's all the same. You know what I'm saying? It's a big pool of money, and I see what you're trying to do. You're trying to shift it so you can move faster. I would rather you have that extra $15,000 to put down on this mortgage. Okay. In the long run, you're going to thank your sofa it. It'd be one thing if you said, Jade, it's going to take us six more months to save up or another year to save up. That'd be maybe a little different. I might change my answer. Maybe not. But in this case, it's two months. Just wait two months. Then you've got more money. You've got $15,000 more in your pocket, and that's going to go towards your mortgage. I love that idea.

Okay. All right.

Well, thank you. You're welcome.

That's none of my problem. Claire, did you get what you needed from Jade? Do you need anything from me at all? I did. I mean, anything? Nothing?

Your cigarette's gone out. No, I don't.

Think I do. Great. I see how this is, Claire. Oh, I see how this is. No, we love you, Claire. Thank you very much.

Merry Christmas. Yeah, she didn't want to ask me anything.

Listen, Ken, and.

That's what our... I get it. I know. I think it's intimidating. It puts off the wrong vibe, I guess.

It's.

Very to me. Alex is up in San Antonio, Texas. Alex, how can we help?

Yes, sir. Good afternoon. I owe my sister $20,000 that I would like to pay her back. She owe me money earlier in the year, and we invested the money. It didn't pan out. I was calling for your opinion on getting a loan. If so, what wish would be the best.

Out for you? Okay, hold on a second. You got your sister to give you $20,000 for some type of business investment. What was.

The.

Investment? Yeah, what was it?

It was property, but it's out of the country. It's in Penrose.

Okay.

We've got a little dicey and it hasn't panned out.

What does that mean?

I.

Would like to pay her the money. I know. What does that mean it didn't pan out?

Well, we've run it to some obstacles, legal obstacles, evidently, the people that we were dealing with weren't entirely honest with us.

The money is gone and you have no recourse.

Right.

How's your sister taking it?

Well, she's been pretty patient with me. She's not harassing me at all or she's reminding me.

In.

Any way that I want to pay her back.

When were you supposed to pay her back? Tell me the initial plan, because I'm trying to gage what your timeline is here.

We were supposed to be there within a couple of months. It's been almost a year, and it's gone just a little bit longer than I would want it to.

Got it.

Okay. But you're broke. You're broke, and you're thinking, Now I got to get this monkey off my back with my sister, so I'm going to go get a loan, and I'm then going to just pay the bank back. I just think that's ridiculous. I'd rather you be spending all of your time and effort just paying your sister back. You don't need to go to a bank or a credit union or some private loan shark-type situation where they're going to charge you enormous interest rates, just start paying her back. Could you pay her $1,000 a month? What would need to be true for you to pay her $1,000 a month or $2,000 a month? Could that happen?

Yes, I could pay her a thousand, possibly 2,000 if we really discipline ourselves.

Then start doing it. This is your sister, man. She loaned you the money. Man up. Start paying it back.

What.

Was.

That? I'm impatient enough with me and I would prefer to just pay her because I see.

Her- You can't pay her 20,000, so pay her what you can.

Because here's what can happen. I want to lay out two sides of this. Unless you tricked her, right? When you said, Hey, Cess, let me borrow 20,000. I have this real estate thing that I want to invest in. When you say the word invest, any person knows, okay, there's a chance I could make money, and then there's a chance I can lose money. I'm guessing she knew going in, there is a chance that you would lose us money. If that was the case, she wouldn't get her return back as quick, or she wouldn't at least get the money that she invested back as quickly.

No.

Go ahead. There is part of that. There is part of that that's true. You both agreed on this thing. I think it was a terrible agreement, but you both agreed to it. There is part of that where it's like, Okay, you said you were investing in this. It didn't pan out, so it's going to take a minute to get the money back. I'm afraid of you getting a loan because I think if you get a loan, it's going to cause you to move slower on this than you need to, because as Ken said, the monkey's off your back. Now you can just be willy-nilly with it. When it's your sister, you're going to move, I don't know if I can say you can move hell and earth to get this money, right? I want that intensity for you to pay her back because you don't like this, and I like that you don't like it because that's what's going to make you move. You need to move, my brother. Let me tell.

You something. If you go get a loan, that interest payment is going to be more punishment for something that you already did that was dumb. Don't multiply dumb. Learn from the stupid mistakes. We've all done them. Move forward. Start paying her what you can each month. You'll get through this. This is The Ramsey Show. Here's the thing about.

Investing.

Advice. You can find it just about anywhere, but that doesn't mean it'll always help you with your personal goals. Here's another option.

Check in with a Smart.

Vester Pro. These financial advisors can review your plan or help create one that's personalized to you. To find a SmartVester Pro in your area, go to ramseysolutions. Com/smartvester. Go to ramseysolutions.

Com/smartvester. Ramsey Solutions is a paid non-client promoter of Participating Pros. Learn more at ramsysolutions. Com/smartvestor. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by Jade Warslaw. We've, for years and years and years, decades been coaching people to win with their money. A big part of it is budgeting. Every dollar, the world's greatest budgeting tool, saving money. This segment is all about you saving money in the holiday season. I turn it over to my unbelievably qualified budget queen herself. Oh, budget queen. Jane Warslaw has got a plethora of things here that I get to sample.

Take it away. Man. Okay, so you're right. I love it. We're doing this money thing. It's that time of year. It's the holidays, Ken. Parties is what I'm talking about. Christmas parties, New Year's Eve parties, they're all over the place. You want to participate. Even if you're in Baby Step Two paying off debt, you want to find a way to participate. The number one thing, I would take a poll if you want, the number one thing when you go to somebody's house and you're like, I got to bring something. It's a bottle of wine. Let me bring a bottle of wine. But then your mind immediately goes to, Okay, I only spend $7-$10 on a bottle of wine, but I don't want to walk in there with a barefoot with a yellow tail. Do I need to spend $30? Honestly, can they really tell the difference? Can you tell the difference, Ken, between.

An expensive bottle- I.

Don't know. I think it's.

About, let's find out. It's about time.

This is a $30 bottle of wine that was brought to me in my home.

All right, I'm not going to... When you pour it, I don't want to look. I'm going to look this way because I want to be able to figure out if I can tell. Which one is which? Because if I see you pour it, then I'm cheating.

It's a $30 bottle of wine that somebody brought me compared to my favorite bottle of wine, which is 999. You're kidding me. 999? Really? It's my favorite. It's called Apothic Red.

Now, Ken- Oh, yeah, okay. Have you poured it? Yes. Okay.

Okay. Drink the first one. I know which is which.

Taste it. I always have to do the sound effect. Kills the guys in the booth. That's pretty good.

That's pretty good?

Okay. What's the second one?

I need to- No, you're not wiping it. You're washing it down.

Already, kid. I was going to eat something. Okay, here we go.

That's a different portion.

Now, this one is much smoother without question. Which one did I pick? You don't know.

You picked my favorite.

I picked the.

$10 wine. You picked the $10 wine.

I'm not kidding you.

You picked the $10 wine over the $30 wine.

Folks are watching it. I have no idea. Wow, okay.

So if you're.

Looking for a good one- A little disappointed in my palate.

-but- $10, a.

Pop of red. Okay, I'm going to hold on to these two over here for the commercial break and put.

Those right over here. The reason it's better is because it's a blend. So if you're going to get a cheaper bottle of red, go for the blend. Don't go like a Cabernet or a Malo. 999. 999? Are you.

Out of your money? By the way, I want to add a little value to this because you're the budget queen. I would take Jade's bottle and I would show up with pride to the party and just present it and say, This is one of my favorite wines. It's a blend. Say a little something about it. They don't know it's $10 unless they look it up.

I love it. All right, let's try with the white. I'm going to turn the other way. Now I do think that there's a little bit more leeway with the white wine deal. Why? Ken, I.

Just don't know.

I can't see what you're doing. Here's the first one.

Now, what am I.

Choosing between? These are Pinot Grigios.

Okay. It's very refreshing. I like that.

Okay, now try the next one. By the way, one of these is a $38 bottle of wine. I think it's 38. It's my favorite, Poulet Fouset.

I like the flavor of the second one better.

Okay, flavor of the second one better. In this case, you did pick the $30 wine. But is it truly, Ken? No. A $25 difference or a $20 difference?

No, I would tell you no.

Would you be okay if somebody brought this? Yeah. This Cupcake wine? How much is this wine, guys? I have a picture here. This Cupcake wine is, oh, boy, it's cheap. It's $9.99, I think.

As well. $9.99? Yeah. There wasn't that big of a... There's not a big difference. There was not a big difference. Let's be honest. Admittedly, I'm not a pino guy.

If you're truly concerned about this, what I suggest, just get a bottle of that Martinellis. It's non-alcoholic. It's that apple cranberry sparkling juice.

Am I trying that next? No.

But the point is there's no expectation. When it's that, it's like, Okay, I know what it is. You drop some cranberries in it, it's sparkly, it's still festive, and it's under $5. If you're unsure what wine to bring, bring the non-alcoholic kind. Martinellis is great. The sparkling apple cranberry. Let me tell you something. Then there's no stigma attached.

I'm trying to stay on focus, so we need to go the next one. But this $10 wine is fantastic.

Now-.

I feel like my advice is going to be better in the next hour.

Listen, I didn't have any. You're hogging at all.

No, it's my role. I'm supposed to be the taster. If you want to switch rolls, then that's.

Your problem. No, I'm going to do mine off camera.

All right, what do we got next?

If you're hosting, you're like, Jade, I'm not a wine thing. I'm not doing the beverage. What else should I bring?

Sweet snacks. I was.

Going to go with the cheese and crackers next, Ken.

Oh, I apologize. Cheese and crackers.

Cheese and crackers.

Now here's the thing. Let me be a good co-host.

There you go. We lost one. If you're going to do it, buy a block of cheese yourself and slice it yourself, you're going to earn so much more money back into your pocket. If you buy a block, you can buy a 16-ounce block of store-brand cheese, and it's 43 cents an ounce. Really? But if you buy it pre-sliced, you're paying almost double per ounce. It takes two minutes to just slice it up yourself. It tastes better. See if you can tell which one.

Now. Okay, so we have pre-sliced and then jade slice. Yes. Oh, so these are just for me to sample? Yes. I'm going to skip the crack and go right to a little bit of the cheese.

Okay, you're skipping the cracker?

Wow. You know, for time, I want to get right to that.

There you go. Not bad. Okay. Then try the other one. Can you tell the difference?

Indcernible.

Indcernible. I can't tell the difference. But you saved money. I always say, Listen, it's store-brand cheese.

Is it the.

Same cheese? It's the same. One is the store-brand. You saved two dollars by slicing it yourself. I always say, Buy store-brand, don't go crazy on the cheese. If you want to spend money, get fancy crackers. The crackers are what makes the plate look pretty. They're what give it some interest.

Have you seen the movie Four Christmases?

Yeah, who hasn't?

You could always go spray cheese.

No, that's disgusting, Ken Coleman. I know.

It's not even real. You don't have.

Any home training. People in the lobby are.

Laughing, though. People in the lobby thought that was funny. You know what? Horse de voos, anyone? It's one of my.

Favorite scenes.

Oh, horse de voos. Yes.

All right, now let's talk about dessert. To me, if you bring a dessert, if you really want to look like you did something but not really do something, bring a dessert. Now, here's the thing. If you go to Kroger, you go to Public's, you go to High V, wherever, and you get something out of the bakery, do not bring it to the party in that old plastic tin that it comes in that's like when you try to open it up.

You know what I'm talking about? Yes, great sound effect. I wasn't.

Ready for that. Don't bring it. Put it on a nice platter.

Oh, this is a very nice platter here.

But better yet, just make it yourself. We have two brownies here, Ken.

Which I can't tell. One is.

Made by you? One is made by me. It's a little bit more rustic. It's a little more homey, but it also looks very fudgy and delicious. The other one is a store-bought. By the way, I was able to make brownies at home for two dollars cheaper than buying them, and I got more out of it. The store bought ones, I spent $14 or something like that on them.

All right, so we're running short on time. I just have a bite.

Of each. Yeah, tell me which is best.

Which.

Is best, okay. You tell me. Get into it, Ken.

Get involved. Let me tell you. I don't know if this is a store or you, but it looks good. I got some powder, something on the top.

Get into it.

Oh, my God! That's unbelievable. I don't have enough time. James, you have to come in here and help me.

Now try that old crusty one over there and you tell me which one.

I think she gave it away.

It's.

Light brown. I will tell you. The one I just had, it's very moist. It's fantastic.

Thank you. Listen, don't give me a light brown brownie. What's wrong with you guys at Publix? It's not the same.

It's not even close. Whatever you got in there, that was very fudgy. It had moisture in it. In the sense this is dry.

If you want my brownie recipe, go to jade, warshaw on Instagram. I'll post it this weekend. Oh, really? Yeah, I'll.

Post it. How long does it take you to make those?

That's what people want to know. Five minutes.

You make those.

Brownies in five minutes? That's not true. Yes, you put all the ingredients in one bowl. There's no steps. You put it all in one bowl, mix it up, put it in the oven. They cook for 45 minutes. It's easy, okay? I'm going to show you guys how to make them.

Sam, do you like these? I'm going to tell you, this man is a.

Lucky man. He's a lucky man. It's amazing. He's not 600 pounds. These are my 600 pound life. I'm not.

Just saying this because she's my friend and coworker and co-host. This is the best brownie I've ever had.

Jade, seriously, this recipe. You're not the first to say that, Ken.

@jadewarsaw on Instagram, ladies- Yeah, I'll.

Post it tonight.

Go get the recipe she's going to post it tonight. I got to go find a glass of milk. We got to pay some bills. Don't move. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life, specifically in your money, in your work, and in your relationships. The phone number is triple-eight-eight-two-five-five-two-two-five. I'm Ken Colman-Jade. Warsaw joins me. Triple-eight-eight-two-five-five-two-two-five is the number we'd love to coach you up. Merry Christmas, everybody. Let's get to it this hour. Chris is joining us in South Dakota. Chris, how can we help?

How's it.

Going, guys? We're having a blast, man. What's going on with you?

Awesome. Well, earlier this week, my wife and I paid off the rest of our debt.

Come.

On. All right, let's celebrate. How much?

In total, let's see here, it was 40 for my pickup, another 28 for her car, and a few ads and end along the way, so I'd say 70,000.

Nice. I'd be.

Out in.

About three years. Way to go, Chris. How does that feel?

Feels really good.

Man, your debt-free Christmas. That's going to be a special day, isn't it?

Yeah, that's what we told each other we're going to do for our Christmas gets to each other this year is we're just going to pick up and we'll call.

It a wash.

Oh, man.

That's great. That's awesome.

Congrats. What can we do for you today?

I don't know the baby steps as well as I should. However, my predicament now is that we're debt-free, the house is paid off as well. Wow. I want to start farming. That's always been my goal, but it's very expensive to start farming. Do I invest my money into my retirement? Or do I just start saving up little by little and put down on some acres? You can do both. This is my biggest question.

You can do both. Congrats, number one, on having no home payment. You left out that little nugget of wonderful information. Let me pull us back a little bit. You have no consumer debt. You have no home debt. Do you have any other money saved besides retirement, like an emergency fund? We've got.

The $85,000 in the bank.

85,000 in the bank. I'm assuming well beyond three to six months of expenses. How much do you earn every year?

Myself is about $100,000 and my wife is about another 40 to 45.

Okay, so you guys are $145,000 a year. You got $85,000 in the bank. Let's really look at this. Is there a way... If you had to say three months of expenses, basic expenses, what is that for you?

Oh, boy, now the pickups are paid off. It's minimal. Exactly. My cell phone payments are 200. I'd say probably 500 a month. We're going to save that for everything, including all of our utilities.

Oh, wow. That doesn't.

Include groceries, though. Yeah, you need to think about your...

Yeah. No, that doesn't include groceries. I'd say I'm at, I don't know, 300 bucks a month.

Okay, let's.

Say- Let's.

Round up to two grand a month. Yeah, let's say two or $3,000 a month, all right? That's nine or $10,000 just for a good measure. Let's say you keep $20,000 as 3-6 months of expenses, all right? Then you can turn around and take that other $65,000, and now we get to decide, Okay, we got $65,000. Are we going to put this towards land or real estate or whatever it is that you said you want to do? We're going to earmark that over there. You and your wife can decide what happens with that money. The next thing I want to make sure you have in place is with your incomes, are you guys investing 15% of your income every month?

Not yet. I took a new job here recently, and I'm not allowed to have... Not allowed is the wrong term. They don't offer a 401(k) until I've been here for about a year. Okay. I still have eight months roughly until I can start investing in that. I've had a 401(k) before my previous jobs. Okay. My wife does a 403(b).

Okay, great.

She's putting in... She takes care of insurance. After tax, it's not much of a paycheck that she brings home.

They're automatically pulling some into her 403(b) between the two of you, and this might mean that you need to go and open some Roth IRAs between the two of you. I want you investing 15 % of your combined income each month. So that's when you walk away from here, that's the answer to the one question of, hey, do we need to start putting towards retirement? The answer is yes, and the answer is that 15 % of you guys' income each month. So whether it's going into HER-403(b), I'd rather you guys start with the Roth IRAs and do those first. And then if you were able to max those out and there's still money left, then move it on to Her403(b), and then by then, if you still have money left over, you've got your 401(k) that's opening up. So that's the order of business that I would do that. And then again, you've got the 65,000 there that you can say, okay, with any extra income and money that we have, we can add to that and we can start piling up cash in order to make your next real estate or land purchase. Is that fun?

It does. However, the way I've been thinking about it is buying land at, let's say, $7,000 to $10,000 an acre a year. That's my next career goal. I want to want to be a farmer. But how to pencil it out with the interest rates right now at the bank trying to buy loans and try to get land, it just doesn't pencil out. I'm wondering if instead of doing the 15% for my retirement, I mean, land would be a retirement option as well. If I ever had to sell it or if I rent it out, that would bring a good living as well. It would, but it is- 15% for that.

It is. But you want that portfolio to be balanced. You don't want it all in real estate. Do you see what I'm saying? You do want to have a nest egg that you know you can get to cash. We're not waiting for a buyer. We're not waiting for like, you're drawing money off of that monthly. That is really important for you to have because there is going to be a time where you're not working and you want this money coming and you don't want to just depend on Social Security. That's right. It is important to have a nest egg in investment account.

Chris, listen, you know this far better than I, but I read enough about America's farmers and the business itself. It's a very tough business and has a tremendous amount of risk involved. You don't want to take the 15%, which is baby step four, and say, Well, I'm going to put it into the land. That's a highly speculative business. You would agree with that statement? I would, yeah. Real quick, we only got about a minute and a half. I just want to get some quick numbers. What acreage would you like? If you had the money now, how many acres are you looking for?

I'd love to have 1,000 acres.

I know.

That's going to take a lifetime of working to.

Get up to that. Yeah, but what farming you want to do?

Just corn and soybeans.

What's the minimal amount of acreage that you need to be able to test this idea?

Testing, I was just going to try to buy 40 acres just to start and I'd have my full-time job. Then gradually, after I got the 40 acres paid off, I want to buy that upfront so I don't have to go to a bank.

I like this idea. I'm going to keep buying more. All right, so now we've got a number in our mind. All right? At 7,000 an acre, that's $280,000, right? Yep. Okay. You know what? I challenged the 40 acres. Listen, we talk about people testing side houses all the time on social media, but listen, man, you can still test something with dirt and seeds. I guess Jade's given you great financial advice. Hopefully, you do exactly what we tell you to do and invest for yourself because I don't want you to sacrifice your long-term investments in a speculative farming business. However, could you save 150, 200 grand, buy a smaller plot? Let's grow it, let's test it. We pay cash, no risk. We got the land that we could resell. I think this is doable. I guess that's the point. I wanted to give you a hug and encouragement to say, I think you could get in this game for a lot less money than you think and see if it is a long-term play. I would challenge you to think about that in the days ahead, but we're proud of you. Great job getting debt-free. Way to go.

This is The Ramsey Show. Folks, Changing Your Family Tree takes more than rice and beans and side hustles. It's also about transferring the big financial risks off your family by having the right kinds of coverage in place. That's why my team created the coverage checkup quiz. It only takes about five minutes to.

Find out what types of insurance.

You need and don't need to.

Protect your finances.

Make this quiz one of your regular checkups, starting right now at ramseysolutions.

Com/checkup.

That's ramseysolutions.

Com/checkup.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw joins me. Merry Christmas America. Thrilled that you were with us. We're here to help you win in your life, your money, your work, and your relationships. Triple-8-825-5225 is the phone number. Let's go to Megan, who joins us now in Jacksonville. Megan, how can we help?

Hi, I'm a brand new follower. And over just this past week, I've listened to the Total Money Makeover audiobook twice. My husband and I have just begun applying this principle to get out of debt and change our financial future. And after reducing our emergency fund and liquidating our assets, we'll have about 14,000 to dump into debt paying off multiple creditors. So soon, it'll be just one creditor, aside from the mortgage. We'll only have one piece of debt. I would just like advice regarding this particular piece of debt, if it makes sense for our family to pay it off and keep it for the long haul or.

Sell it. What's the piece of debt? Is it a car?

Yes, it's a van. It's a 2020 Ford transit 15 passenger van. Wow.

Why such a big van?

Well, we are a family of eight. My husband and I, we have six sons, ages up to 11. Wow. Oh, my goodness.

Bless your heart. You need some rest. Yes. So tell us the details on the van. How much do you owe on it?

Yeah. We bought it in March, which it was crazy. The market was insane. Painful time to buy, but we were maxed out in our prior eight-seater van, and it was just on its last leg.

So what did you spend on it?

Well, that one was paid off, but the one that we have now, so the one that's in question, our balance right now is $47,663.

Okay, $47,663. Okay, and what's it worth if you were to sell it private sale?

So I, Kelly Blue booked it, and it's valued about $56,600.

Fifty-six thousand, $56,600. Okay, so the question then is, are you able to get your hands? Because what you could do if you wanted to, you've still got the $14,000, you could.

Get the.

Difference cleared up, and you could sell this thing. It's a $10,000 difference. Sell this thing and then put whatever... I mean, what would the next step be? Do you guys have anything? Do you have other vehicles for the family is my question.

This is our only vehicle.

The only vehicle, period?

Yes.

Okay, so what would it cost to get... You said before you had an eight passenger van, which is great. What would it cost to get another used eight passenger van?

Well, it varies. There's a lot more options. It's obviously a lot cheaper. If the advice was to sell it, then that's one thing that I would be asking, what should I be looking for? I mean, should I be looking for something, trying to go as cheap as we can that will be more short term or just trying to...

Here's my answer to that. I think that I do want you out of this vehicle. I think it's more than you need and it's too expensive for you. In order to say what you need and what you can get, can you tell me what your income is?

My husband, we make... Well, our annual income is 120,000.

Okay, $120. Our general rule of thumb is we don't want any more than half of your annual income in vehicles, okay? So between the two of you, you could really consider this two ways. That's $60,000 split between the two of you. If this is your only vehicle and you plan on being a one vehicle family, there is a world that you could pay this off and just keep this as your vehicle. If you think you can pay it off in two years or less. That's your bag if you want to do that. If you're like, Jade, I want to get out of debt. I don't want this thing. We bought too much car. Then there's a world where you say, Okay, as we're working to pay off debt, we know that we're going to have to fill the gap on this because there's a $10,000 upside down, and you're then going to need some money somewhere to buy an eight passenger van that's used. You've got some options here and you've got to decide ultimately, can you kick it and pay this thing off super fast? Or do we need to really consider some... Ken, what you're looking at vehicles.

What do you see? Here's a question for you. Can you fit eight people? Can you do the six boys in a traditional third row minivan?

We could, yes. I mean, that is what we had before. The question was, and the reason that we also wanted to go up because we weren't sure whether or not we would expand our family anymore in the future. It was just, well, we'd rather at least have the space for it and not have to then at that point be like, okay, well.

This thing that now we're going to have to. I understand that. But now you're in agreement with Jade and I that we probably shouldn't have bought a van for the future. We should buy a van for the now, yes?

The other benefit, like I said, we moved out of the city. We're a little more rural now, and having that extra space for when we do go into town and being able to get groceries and all those things.

The question is- I don't want to try to talk you out of it, so I'll answer Jade's question. I've got right here a 2015 Ford Transit passenger 150 XL medium roof with the sliding room passenger side door. I feel like I used car sales for James. But now this is in Murfreesboro. This is Tennessee, but it's $26,900. It's got 78,000 miles, but it's 26. Okay, then done. That's a lot less than the what, '45? No, '47 is what you owe on the current one. You guys can definitely find a van that.

Large.

For half.

She can, but she's also got to clear the $10,000 difference.

No, I know. I'm letting you help her on that, but we can at least get out of that car payment.

Well, I'm glad you found that, because now that I'm looking at that, I'm like, All right, that's there. She'd have to save up the $26,000 there, plus the 10,000 to get right. So she's already at 37,000. That's 10,000 less than where she's.

At now. I can do it one better. I was looking at minivans in the 15s and 16s. Here's one in Jacksonville, 2019 Dodge Grand Caravan, 35,000 miles, 19.8. That's not bad. So for the now.

That's not bad. Here's where I'm at. There's not a bad decision here because your debt right now is minimum. You've got the 14,000. You'll knock it out, and the only debt left is this, right? So if I'm in your shoes- Other.

Than our mortgage, but that's another- If.

I were in your shoes, we've laid out all the information, and now I'm going to tell you what Jade Warshaw would do. If I were in your shoes, I would keep this vehicle and pay it off this year in one year because it's your only vehicle. It's less than half of your take-home pay for the year, right? And it's your only one.

I like that.

I'm going to keep this car. It's good. It's serving a purpose. It's going to get you towards the future. You like it. The other options aren't enough of a payoff in my opinion, to go through trouble.

It's four grand a month to knock it out in a year.

Yeah, knock it out in a year, four grand a month. Do you like that?

Yeah. There's that security. I mean, it was expensive, but we got it with only 13,000.

Miles on it. Listen, you're not going to make me feel good about the fact that you went out and got a car note now. But you're in it now. We were learning. Exactly. You're in it now. Pay it off and make me the promise that next time you guys, when it's time to upgrade, when it's time to get another car, stack up that cash because I don't want you guys in car. I don't want you in car debt ever again. The car note is the difference between the middle class and the wealthy class, all right? That's the money right there that people... You need that money. You need to invest it. That's where your kid's college is. It's all wrapped up in that car note. Just you and your husband say, All right, we got one out of it, but we're not borrowing money again on cars. I'm proud of you guys.

Yeah, absolutely. You guys are going to win.

I'll just knock it out.

That's right. Look, get gazelle intense on knocking out that car payment. When you guys have singular focus on that, you'll be surprised. All the good stuff that will start to happen when you think, Okay, let's save a buck here. Let's put it towards the car next to you guys have a paid-off van. I put some more money in the bank before I have another kid. I just wanted to throw that in there.

Listen, Ken, you used car salesman over there.

Ken's car lot. Because people need to know their options.

Listen, you doing that helped us make the.

Right choice for her. There you go. Hey, listen, money advice, use car advice, whatever you need, we're here for you. This is The Ramsey Show. It's no secret we love a good deal here at Ramsey, which is why I don't want you to miss this one. Right now, when you.

Preorder my.

New book, Breaking Free From Broke, you get $100 worth of bonus items for free.

I'm talking ebook, online.

Q&a, and enhanced audiobook, all completely free and all chalk full of what you need to know about credit card schemes to investing traps, to mortgage.

Myths, to building wealth, all the research is there.

The offer ends January 15th, so do not wait. Go to ramseysolutions. Com/store. That's ramseysolutions. Com/store. Welcome back, America. You are listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Colman. Jade Warsaw joins me this hour. It's such a privilege to be a part of this show that helps so many people. I want to just give you a snapshot of where we are as we wrap up 2023. We have done 242 live shows. We've talked to 3,200-plus callers, and we've done 184 debt-free screams. Get this ready for this? I wish we had a ticker board for this. Totally. Thank you for the drum roll, Jade. Thirty-six million, $59,064, and don't forget the 47 cents. What an unbelievable year. We keep going on that total, Jade, because in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, standing on the debt-free stage are Donald and LaTisha. Welcome. Hello. How is it going? How's it going? I assume you're here to do your debt-free scream. Is that correct? That's correct, though. Oh, boy, let's go. Let's hear the story. All right, how much debt did you guys pay off?

We paid off $152,000.

$152,000. How long did that take?

That took us approximately 30 months.

30 months. What was your range of income during that time?

The range of income, we started off at about 120, and we ended off at about 165.

Wow, nice. What do you guys do for a living?

I actually have my own lawn care, landscaping company. My wife, she works at the local hospital in Revenue Integrity, excuse me. But really she does everything. She knew light as a photographer. She do T-shirts. She actually is an author. She does it all.

I love that. I love that. I'm going to teach that. Is she responsible for the $45,000 bump, or is this a partnership in raising our income?

Yes, she actually have a thrown chair rental business that she started a couple of years back, and that's what actually gave us the bump. Did you say a throwing chair rental business? Yes. I thought so. If I want a queen's chair, I can rent it from you. Absolutely.

Come on, somebody. Don't get her too excited about this. That's going to show up in the one day. Is this for parties.

And things? Yes, like weddings, baby showers, birthday parties. No kidding. A lot of pastors use it for their pastors' anniversary. Okay. It's used for a lot of things, photoshoots. Listen, America, don't tell me you can't make money. This woman is renting a throne, okay?

I know. That is the American dream right there. I know. I love that. Love it. You guys are from the New Orleans area, is that right?

Yes, actually from Pachatula, we're like 45 minutes.

North of New Orleans. Okay, got you. All right, well, fantastic. Okay, so what happened 30 months ago when you guys say, All right, we're going to go on this debt-free journey? By the way, that's a lot of.

Debt in 30 months. I know. It is. Well, to be honest, I have heard about Dave a couple of years back, and we were already on a journey without filing a Dave Ramsey plan. We would actually get in, we'll pay off debt, and then we'll get right back in it, and we'll just be in this frivolous cycle. What happened was COVID hit. For COVID, that was a blessing and a curse for us. What happened was I commute back and forth to New Orleans every day. I heard Dave on YouTube, and I was an essential worker, of course, and he was just telling me how crazy I was and how stupid I was. I had to get myself together. I go home and I go to my wife and I say, Hey, listen, I have this plan. I heard this guy.

On YouTube. She's still shaking her head.

I had to get her to buy in. I was so sold in Jade, Ken. She looked at me. She says, I'm not with it. Leticia. Tell us more. Tell us how did you get into it. He'd be like, Hey, let's watch Dave, Ramsey. I'm like, You watch it. Tell me what he said. I don't want to watch that. That's great. Wait a minute. You want me to watch what now? I was like, You get the information and you give me a short script of it. What he did was he began to, because it was COVID and it wasn't like we could do anything, he worked a lot. People still needed their grass cut, so he worked a whole lot. He was able to save about 10 grand. And he came home, I think it was like three or four months, he saved 10 grand. And so he was like, Hey, pay these credit cards off. And I'm like, With what? And he was like, Oh, I saved the money because I was listening to Dave Raleigh. Show and prove. I was like, Oh, okay. I'm like, We don't have this healthy competition going on. He always say, I like to spin.

I was like, I'm going to show him. I had my businesses going and I was running specials with my book specials and throwing chair rental specials. I was running it. I came home and I said, Hey, guess what? I paid this credit card off. We had a sheet on the wall, and we were constantly come and home and saying, I paid that one and we scratching it off. It became a healthy competition. I love that. I stopped getting my hair nails done. I was wearing press-ons. I learned how to do my own hair.

From YouTube. Not the press-ons.

Yes. It's a sacrifice. That's a deep, deep sacrifice.

I'm learning things right now. Okay, I got to say this. Donald, you're a genius. Thank you. You need to write a book for husbands.

That's what I've been trying.

To tell you. I actually think you're a genius. I try to force stuff. You just were like, All right, I'm just going to save up some money and surprise her. You're a genius, my man. You should write a book. Yes, sir. All right, fans, fun stuff. What was the debt comprised of? Curious, the 152.

Okay, so we had a van that we financed. That was $12,000. My wife actually had a Nissan Pet Finder. That was $14,000. We had $28,000 in credit cards. My wife had $38,000 in student loans. Oh, wow, every time. We actually paid off a home that was $60,000.

Wait, so we have a paid-off home in this?

We have a paid-off home in this. Is it your primary home? No. You can tell us the story. What happened was in the midst of before the pandemic happened, we were, like I said, already on a journey to pay off debt. We acquired a mobile home that we say, Hey, we'll make this rental property. In the midst of renovating, I was like, Why don't we just live here and rent out our house and there's more money we can save? Interesting. We lived in the mobile home and renovated it. That's what we did. We were on our journey. They pay rent, we make money, and we end up selling the home because the market is right. We end up selling the home and made $28,000 in profit off of that home. Nice. Now you're still in the Airstream or whatever it is you're still in the mobile. Yes. And you own it Free and clear. Yes, Free and clear. Wow, you all don't have a payment in the world. And the greatest blessing of it all as well is because we live in Louisiana, where it's a hurricane state. They have a program called Restore Louisiana.

Because we're in a mobile home and we did acquire some damages, Restore actually gave us a grant to get a brand new mobile home. No way. We just was with a brand new 2023 mobile home. Goodness gracious. Congratulations, guys. We are really doing great.

You are floating.

I got to point out your nails look fabulous. Thank you. Yeah, absolutely.

Fantastic. I didn't.

Get these done. All right, so we've got a couple of minutes. Real quick, tell people what you believe the key is to getting out of debt.

It's discipline. It's knowing that you are worth it, that you are worth being debt-free and not having to struggle and stress about bills. The relief it is to be able to travel and take a trip without using a credit card is such an overwhelming feeling. It's just like, wow. I never believe that we could really be debt free because you always hear people say you're going to always have debt. But to be able to go through the steps, the sacrifice, being talked about, laughed at like, you all really left your house to live in a mobile home is so rewarding because guess what? We could do whatever we want now. We're able to give substantially. We're able to be a blessing. God is constantly pouring out his blessings to us because we decided to sacrifice a little so that we could live like no one else.

She's preaching. I'm ready to do an altar call and take an offering. I'm going to do it all, LaTisha. That's the final word because that is so powerful. You guys are on your way to being Baby Steps Millionaire. We want to bless you with a copy of that book, Dave's latest book, Baby Steps Millionaires, because that's the next chapter in your amazing story, From Mobile Home to Millionaires. That's it. Thank you. That's your slogan. I dig that. Then we're also going to give you a copy of Dave's book, Total Money Makeover, to give to somebody else because you guys have modeled the way. We know you're going to continue to bless people by modeling the way. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Okay, you got your son with you. Let's get him up there real quick. Kelshan. This is Kelshan. How old is he? Seventeen. Seventeen. All right, here we go. We've got Donald, LaTisha, Kelshan. They paid off $152,000 in 30 months, making $120,000 to $165,000. Take it away. Let's hear your debt-free scream.

You are ready on three.

Three, two, one.

We're debt-free.

Yes, they are. Fantastic. I love that story. I mean, I got goosebumps.

Listen, I'm ready to shout. That's all I'm saying, Ken.

All right, let's go do it. Let's go high five and shout with that fabulous family. Hey, they did it. You can do it as well. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show America. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by Jade Warsaw. The number for you to jump in on the conversation is triple-8-825-5-2-2-5. Our scripture of the day comes from Luke 2:7, 8, and 9, and she gave birth to her firstborn son, and she wrapped him in clothes and laid him in a majors because there was no room for them in the end. There were shepherds out on the field keeping watch by night, and an angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them. Our quote today from Calvin Coolidge, a former president, he said, Christmas is not a time nor a season, but a state of mind to cherish peace and goodwill, to be plentious in mercy, is to have the real spirit of Christmas. President Calvin Coolidge.

That's a great contribution there.

Cool Cal, is what they called him, I believe. I think.

You would know.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Colorado Springs, Colorado is where we go. Alex is up. Alex, how can we help you? Hello. How are you?

I'm doing great, actually. I have some good news personally. I recently made a pretty big life change. I moved all the way across the country for a new job. The income here is significantly better. It's about twice as what I was making recently. I'm about to have a bunch of disposable income that I've never had before in my life. I want to begin building wealth and planning out my future. The only issue is I still have some debt, but I also want to do some investing. I was just wondering, how would you recommend going about that?

Winning. Listen, I'm excited for you. You got double the income. Thank you. You've got options now. How much debt do you have laying around?

I have 9,500 in student loans, and that's it.

Oh, that's it. Okay, great. All right. What's your income? What's this doubled salary look like?

I actually do two jobs. I do a teaching job on the side. My main job is $97,000. Then with my teaching job, I make between about $5,000 and $10,000.

Okay, cool. What does that look like monthly? What do you bring home each month?

About $8,500. Okay. That's pre-tax. After tax, it's going to be around $6,000.

Around $6,000, you said?

Mm-hmm. Okay.

What would it look like? Can you get this debt, this 9,500? Can you have that gone in four months?

I could.

Okay, great. That's thing one. Do you have any money or savings laying around? Let me ask that first.

I do, actually. In my bank account, I have about 8,000.

Oh, okay. Well, then we're going to knock this out even sooner. Wow. Okay, so what I'm going to walk you through is our series of baby steps, just in case. I don't know how familiar you are with them, but what we say is first step, you're just keeping a thousand dollars, keep it aside right quick because we need a cushion. We need a barrier between us and life if an emergency happens. So out of that 8,000 today, I'd earmark 1,000 aside, and then I take that 7,000 that's left and I would put it towards the student loan. And if you can scrounge together, I know it's the end of the month, so this might be in January, if you can scrounge together that other 2,000, knock it out and it's gone.

Okay.

And then... Go ahead. You go ahead.

Another thing I was wondering, though, is that I was hoping to invest in an IRA. I was hoping to begin that. We're getting to it. I have about 15,000. But the IRA, I know that there are annual contribution limits. I was wondering, is it too late this year to hit that?

No, it's not. I'm going to get to that, but I want to make sure you understand it within our framework, okay? Because there's Method to Madness. Everybody wants to build wealth and everybody wants to do that. But if you don't do it in the right way, you end up taking steps backwards, and we hate to see that. So it's super duper important that you walk through it with some method, okay? Because if you don't have three to six months saved, what happens is that money that you saved in a 401(k) or an IRA, that becomes your emergency fund. And then when it rains, you have to pull from it prematurely and you get hit with penalties and fees and it messes up your rhythm of investing. I really don't want that for you. Fair enough? Okay. Yeah. Okay, so you've paid off the student loan in January. By February, I want your main focus to not be investing. I want your main focus to be stacking up three to six months of savings, and I want that money liquid. I don't want you investing that money, okay? Because if you were to lose your job, if something were to happen, you fall on hard times.

You need that money there because I don't want you going into debt to cover an emergency, okay? So February starts, you're piling up three to six months of expenses, basic expenses, okay? This is not your full-blown budget. And for anybody listening, three to six months of expenses, that is not every item in your budget, okay? This is what it takes to keep your household running when we say basic expenses. So you're doing that. Then, then and only then are we talking about investing. Now, typically, Alex, we would tell people to pause 401(k) investing. But I'm not going to tell you that because you're literally going to pay this off in one month. It's not even worth the trouble. But once you stack up that 3-6 months, you're investing, all right? 15% of your income. If your 401(k) has a match, you can start with that. And then after you hit the match, you can go over to a Roth IRA, you can max one of those out. And if you still have money left of the 15%, you can go back to the 401(k) and keep going until you hit it.

Okay.

Did I answer your question or you have more?

That makes sense. Yeah, but I was just wondering, is it possible still to invest in the 401(k) or in, sorry, in the IRA this year? Yes. I haven't actually opened that up an account, but I'm just worried that we're running into.

The deadline. No, with IRAs you have until tax filing, so you can invest all the way up until April.

I see.

Okay. At least last I checked. Did that change, Ken Coleman? Last I checked.

Yeah, it's the wrong guy. I don't check those.

Details much. Yeah, it's not the same as with your 401(k), you've got time until tax season.

I believe that's true because it's based on the 2023. That's right. I think.

That's correct. Yeah, keep going. I'm right about that. I just wanted to double-check it, and Ken is right about that, too. But yeah, I love this. I love it. I'm excited for you.

You're on your way, young man. Congratulations. Listen, follow what Jade told you to do. If you do that, you're going to be really wealthy. Just be patient. Just walk the steps out. Start that investing plan now. How old are you? Twenty-four. Oh, my goodness.

Oh, come on now. That's exciting. Listen, again, I'm going to say this again. I don't know if you're going to do it or not, but if you really want to do this quickly, pause investing now. Just pause. It's a temporary, just quick pause so you can get that money back in your hands. You can quickly get the student loan out, so you can quickly save up 3-6 months, and then you can hit a hard 15%. Oh, my goodness. It's going to make your mind blown how quickly you recoup whatever little bit you lost off of that small pause.

That's exactly right. It's all about momentum, Alex, and everybody else. That's the magic of the baby steps, is it allows you to get emotional momentum, which then leads to financial momentum. That's what's really great. Okay, so unbelievable here. I wanted to bring back perspective, Jade, for you as we wrap up the show today. Thirty-six million-plus of our listeners and viewers paying off debt. It is doable. I've got to do this because she's my friend, but this is really good. You see that? I got to tilt at the right way. Look at that. Money is not a math problem. This is her new book, comes out when?

It's technically out now.

Oh, it is. It's on the street. Okay, I know it had been pre-sold, so you can get it now, Amazon, wherever books are.

Sold, yes? Yes. If you buy it on ramseysolutions. Com, it'll ship immediately. If you go on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Target, those sorts of things, it will not ship until January second, so keep that in mind.

Yeah. Here's what's great about it. Barely over 40 pages, includes her amazing story. This is a woman who's walked the walk. She's talked the talk. The real reason you're broke and what to do about it, money is not a math problem, and it's about behavior. That's what I love about this title. Jade has lived it. She and Sam paid almost half a million dollars off in debt. As we wrap today's show, I just was thinking the perspective here of all the calls we have had today. Plus, I could say this about every show. It really is about the title of your book. I'm going to give you the final word on that. Wow! It is about behavior, yes?

It is. Money is not a math problem. At the end of the day, you're not going to accomplish anything if you don't truly believe you can. I always say if behavior is the car, belief is in the driver's seat. Belief is what drives our behavior. Whether you believe you can or you can't, you're right. If you're not getting where you want to go, it's because you don't believe you can get where you want to go. I say it all the time. You can tell me you won't do it, but don't tell me you can't. You can do it, but your belief has got to be in the right place. This book is all about that.

Go get it right now, ramseysolutions. Com. It's in the store. It'd be a great gift because it's very affordable. It's the gift that keeps on giving. The famous line from Christmas Vacation. How about that? Hey, big thanks to my my dear friend, Jade Warsaw, soon to be bestselling author. To our fearless leader, old captain, our captain, James Childs, and the amazing crew. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, folks, Dave here. You want to hear even more life-changing content from Ramsey? Download the Ramsey Network app so you can catch all your favorite shows all in one place like The Ramsey Show, Smart Money Happy Hour, and The Dr. John Deloney Show. You'll get real talk about life, relationships, money, and your career. Plus, the.

App lets you browse.

By topic like debt, business, or selling your home. Get the content you want whenever and wherever you want to listen. Download the Ramsey Network app today.