Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, number one bestselling author, a couple of times over and host of the Dr. John Deloney show, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Merry Christmas America. We're glad you're here. Open phones at triple-eight, 825-5225. That's triple-eight, 825-5255. 525-5255. Madison is with us to start off this hour in Atlanta, Georgia. Hi, Madison. Welcome to the show.

Hi, Dave. Hi, John. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? I'm in a predicament that I've actually made myself. I got married, second marriage for both of us not quite six years ago. At that time, I had been through a pretty bad divorce and had a pretty traumatic first marriage, so definitely was healing from that. I met this wonderful man, so nice to me and kind to me. I just fell head over heels in love with him. I knew he was broke. I knew he didn't have any money, and that just didn't matter to me. He was just so nice to me, and I loved being treated nice. We got married. I did have him find a pre-nut because I was expecting to inherit a large amount of money from my parents' estate at some point. I hadn't at that time, but I knew that that would be in the future. He did sign a pre-nutial agreement and didn't have any problems with that. However, I started our relationship with just paying all the time. I paid for everything. We'd go out for dinner, I would pay. I already had a place where I lived that I paid for and et cetera, et cetera.

I understand how I've set a pattern. At the time, it didn't bother me. I also want to add this man is a Christian man. He knows the word of God. I really have put this in God's hands and asked for his help. But I just can't figure out why there's no spirit of generosity with him. I've brought up several times, Can you please pitch in? Just kick in. I don't expect half and half. I have plenty of money. I don't need his money. It's just on principle. I just need to know that I'm not just the only one that's supporting us. I feel like I'm the breadwinner.

He doesn't earn an income?

He did. We are both retired now. He does not have any retirement.

How old are you, Dash?

I'm 60, he's 64. He took Social Security early. He was working at that time, and then when you start taking Social Security, you can only work so many hours. You can only make so much money. That knocked his availability down to where he really couldn't work very much. But since then, we've both retired and relocated.

What do you feel like the core question is?

I think I'm just trying to figure out if I'm being taken advantage of. Is this just something where I'm being... I've brought something up several times, and nothing changes, nothing... It just stays the same. I don't know if I... Well, I guess what my next step should be.

Hold on. This isn't a money issue. This is a respect issue. You don't respect the man that you're married to. Right. Because I bring home income to the house, but my wife, my God Almighty, if she disappeared, the house would go away. I don't look at her and say, Wow, you're not contributing to this thing, and I'm paying for dinner all the time because my money is our money. Right? The home that she keeps and runs and her small business, that's ours too. But there's a mutual respect there. This doesn't have to do with money. You mentioned earlier, you don't want your marriage to be where you're paying for everything. It is. That is the world you set up. So the only thing you can do from this point forward is to create something new. But this is a respect issue. This isn't a I just need him to pitch in issue. Have you been very clear about what you need? Or has it been a, Man, I sure am paying for a lot. He might be thinking, Well, it's our money. Have you been very clear with him?

No, I'm very afraid of confrontation. I get very nervous about talking about something like.

This, about money. Then you end up in resentment, Lain, because you spend a ton of time having imaginary conversations in your head, don't you?

Yes, I do.

Yes. That's cruel and unfair to him.

And doubt, yes.

Yes. So if you're going to.

Be mad at him- It's hard on your brain, too.

Yeah. If you're going to be mad at him, he at least deserves to know what he could do, give him a path back to relationship. Because right now, he married somebody with a lot of money, and he might think he's fulfilling his duties as your husband by being the fun loving guy that just whatever, whatever, partage in a pair of the tree. He needs to know you don't respect him.

Yeah, I do love him, and I don't want anything to end. I don't want.

To be- What does he need to do to be a person that you would respect? Because he doesn't need to work. You guys are retired.

No.

We're retired. It's not a work ethic thing. What is it that he's supposed to do that makes him valid in your mind?

I think just pitching in, say, I don't know, $1,000 a month, something so- Pitch in from what?

I'm not the only one. Where's he got money?

He has social security money and he gets other money from other places.

You guys don't have your finances combined at all?

We do have a joint checking account, but he's never put any money in it. So no.

Does he have an avenue to do that?

He could, yeah. He could put money in there, yeah, because he's on the account.

But if he's looking at your vast amount of money in that account, and he looks at his piddly government check, you see what I'm saying? He needs to know. Again, I think he's going to put $1,000 in that account, and that's not what the issue is going to be.

Yeah.

If he started depositing $1,000 a month in that account, you'd be right back here in six months.

I don't know if I would be. To me, like you just said, it's not about money, it's more about respect. I think because this has gone on for so long, and I've allowed it to go on so long, and this pattern's been set now, I want to rewrite the rules, I guess.

Well, since you all are married, you all get to rewrite them together.

Right.

I think it's a matter of sitting down and having a conversation and say, Hey, we've been married for a few years.

I need you to do this to have me have positive, respectful feelings towards you.

What can I do for you so that you can have positive, respectful feelings towards me? Let's put all of it on the table. Let's give each other a chance for success.

Yeah, 100% of what you don't say, he can't hear. Right.

Yeah.

I've been married 43 years. I'm still working.

On that. Dave, I am too, man. I am too.

The things that are insurance-head that I have never heard are amazing.

But you're in trouble for them. I'm always in trouble.

You better fix them. What's wrong? Nothing. This is The Ramsey Show. I get heartbreaking calls and emails all the time from people dealing with the loss of a spouse or parent, and many of them can't even grieve properly because they're too stressed about the money. This is exactly why you must have term life insurance. You cannot leave your family in this situation. Let the team at Xander Insurance help. I've trusted these guys for over 25 years, and I know they are caring and professional. Go to zander. Com or call 800-356-4282. Thanks for joining us America. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. We appreciate you guys hanging out. Merry Christmas to you. Hey, if you like what you hear around here, we could use your help. Please help us. Subscribe. Click the Subscribe button. Click the Share button or share a link or tell somebody where you're listening or watching or whatever it is, or YouTubeing or TBN-ing or whatever it is you're doing, Spotify, Apple podcast, whatever it is, maybe you're listening on a radio station out there, thank you. Just share and leave us a five-star review, please. We'd appreciate it very much.

Merry Christmas to you. Shay is with us. Shay is in Daytona. Hi, Shay. Merry Christmas.

Hi, Merry Christmas.

Good. How can we help?

Hi. Just to cut right to the chase, I just took out my first student loan ever. Super nerve-wrecking. It's for my masters in social work, and it's about 45,000. That's without the interest. I'm just trying to figure out what's a great path to start on that, how to tackle it super fast because I don't want to be with this debt for 10 years.

You just took out your first loan for a semester, or you just finished a degree program, and you have $45,000 in the whole?

No. It's like $6,000 a semester, but they just gave it all to me at one. So it's 45 grand is what they gave me at one.

Who's they? I've never heard of that ever.

It's Financial Aid, FAFSA.

They just cut you a check and deposit it for $45,000?

Well, not into my bank. It goes directly to my school, and then they start paying it that way. So it's already given to my school, and my school just.

Takes it out. Okay, so you're starting your masters, and you just finance the whole thing.

Well, Dave, I bet what's happened is I bet you've been approved for the entire program. I bet they don't have a check for… I bet your university doesn't have a check for $45,000 because they wouldn't prepay like that. Because you could quit, you can drop out. It could be a whole thing. But my guess is you were approved for the program, and the school gave you a letter that said you've qualified for $45,000 in federal aid, and every semester you're going to have to re-up and re-up and re-up and re-up. Okay. That's my guess as to what happened. I've never heard the.

Company prepay. You're just starting your masters. Yes. You're spending $45,000 to get a masters in social work to make what money?

Not enough. It's about 90 grand, which would be the salary for it.

There's no way you'll make 90 grand.

That is the salary in Florida for it.

Where?

Right now. I work at a hospital.

And a starting social worker with the LMSW makes $90,000?

Not starting out, no, but I've been doing social work and case management and all that stuff for years. So with the experience and once I get it, I'm already making $15 right now. So they're bumping it up.

Wow. That's extraordinary. Good for them because that's a field that needs more people that drastically is usually underpaid. As a guy who I've taught graduate school and mental health programs, I've lived this world, what I would plead to you is to you make $50,000 a year. I would cut back for the next three years and cash flow this program. Please, please, please don't chain yourself to the federal government and then try to go into a serving profession. It's a recipe for burnout, and it's just going to melt you from the inside out. Please don't do this.

Yeah, that was one of my big fears. It's just like, I definitely don't want it lingering for so long, too, and when it comes to money, I just have really bad anxiety over it.

Just don't take it. The way it doesn't linger, you don't.

Take it. Don't take it. Don't take the check.

Pay cash for your degree is what.

John's saying. $6,000 a semester, go pay it outright for the three semesters plus your 3,000 hours, whatever you.

Have to do. Your hospital not got any financial matching for education?

No, because I'm not a nurse. They only have it for nurses.

Okay.

What enticed me to it was because they said at first that they would. Then when I got here, they said, Oh, sorry, no, it's just for nurses.

Yeah, I'd find another place to work too while you're at it. I'm serious. 100% serious. If they're going to lure you in and then they're going to bait and switch you, that's a company without integrity. I wouldn't work for them.

Got you.

I know this is a radical shift, but I would go to the school and say, Hey, I need my semester-by-semester cost. They're probably going to tell you, Well, it depends if you take six or nine hours, whatever, and say, What is a full-time? What is a part-time student going to cost? Then you make $50,000 a year until you find another job where you'll make 60. I want you to cash.

Flow this program. What we're trying to tell you is that uneasy feeling inside of you when you're called is real. It's right. It's telling you don't do this. We're telling you it's right. Don't do it. The best way to get this degree is pay cash for it and look for someone, maybe another employer that pays 90 when you're out, but also we'll help with the education like this one promised, but it was renexed on. Let's do a couple of things here that are pretty radical. But you sound pretty chill, and if you just allow all this to happen to you, it's going to step on your face. Don't allow this to happen. You need to stand up, square your shoulders, and head straight into this with your teeth, with a warrior yell, girl. I mean, you need to get after it. John's in Jackson, Mississippi. Hey, John, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. How's it going? Better than I deserve. What's up?

I have a question about getting an FBA loan to purchase a business. What's your thought on that is- Never.

Never? Never under any circumstances. It's a disaster. Why would you buy a small business?

Well.

I travel 10 months out of the year, and my wife stays at home with kids, and it's a taxing life. We're trying to find a happy medium for everybody. We stumbled what we think is a good opportunity per se, and.

We just- What is the industry that the business you're looking at is in?

Making signs.

Okay. How much is the purchase?

Approximately $1.2 million.

Yes, sir.

For a signed franchise?

It's not a franchise. It's a person that started the business, and he's looking to retire.

Okay. Let me give you a different way to skin this cat, maybe. Okay. But 80 % of small businesses fail in the first five years.

The.

Number one cause of small business failure when we survey them, and we work with 10,000 small businesses and entree leadership right now, is what's called cash flow problems. Cash flow problems is a phrase that means a lot of things, but it primarily means two things. I can't pay my debt payments, and I didn't pay my taxes on time, and I get screwed by the federal government. So you're going to have a million two floating around your neck trying to drag you down while you're trying to run a business this guy has already been running for a few years. That's like trying to swim with an anchor tied around your ankle. It's a bad plan. Let's go at this a different way. What is the net profit on his business?

He pays himself a.

Salary, but- No, what's the net profit on the business?

On average, over the last four years, it's around 250.

Okay, a million two is a little rich.

Yeah, we know that part of it. We're in the beginning process and we're.

Trying to figure out what to do. Here's how I've taught some people who hand the business to the next generation and want to be bought out, or they have to the employee or an employee or a buyer like you that want to be bought out. I don't want you to get payments on a million two and Fauci decide we're having another quarantine. Me neither. Okay, that'll put you into bankruptcy court, sir. It did a bunch of people. Because nobody making signs or making plexiglass, but they weren't making signs. So you were screwed if you had done this two years ago. So learn a lesson from that. Now, what you can do is agree to pay him 80 or 90% of the profits after you take a basic small salary out.

Until.

He gets his million. And about a million is about what it's worth. But if you make 250,000 a year on it and you gave him 90% of it, you'd have him paid out in four and a half years.

Versus getting the loan.

Per se. Exactly. And he'd get his money really, really fast that way. But you're living on a wage to get till you get him off your back. But if profits go down, you're only committed to give him a percentage of profits. So you're not bankrupt then. Sba will come take your house, dude.

Fake it till you make it. It's popular career advice, but it doesn't work for very long. If you don't love what you do, you can't fake the.

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John Deloney, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Open phone is a triple-eight, 8255, 225. Well, it's Christmas time. Merry Christmas. You can get meaningful gifts for Christmas during our $12 sale right now. Our best-selling books, The Total Money Makeover, Babysteps Millionaires, John's number one best seller of the first one he did, Own Your Past, Change Your Future, all just $12. The questions for human cards, conversations. The Christmas edition is back. They sold out really quick last year. We've got the New Year's Eve edition. For your friends and family. It's a lot of fun. Meaningful gift for everyone there. Check it out, ramseysolutions. Com/store. Maggie is in Atlanta. Hi, Maggie. Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hey, Dave. Thanks so much for taking my call.

Sure. What's up?

Hey, I'm just calling today. I've been listening for about twoto three months now. I'm 20 years old. I've been doing an every dollar budget for about a month now, and I am needing to get my own place in ASAP. I don't even know the first place to start preparing for it. My income is fairly low and my monthly bills are pretty high. I just wanted to call in and give you all advice. What is your income? My income is 2,300 monthly.

What do you do?

I process medical records right now.

Okay, and you're 20 years old?

Yes, sir, 20, and I only have a high school diploma.

Okay. Are you looking for new work? Because your income sucks.

Yeah, it does. I've been looking around to see what I can do, but with no degree and- No degree.

Is not a whole back at all.

Yeah, I live in rural Tennessee. I saw a sign the other day that said McDonald's at $20 an hour.

Yeah, I do have a side hustle that I am starting after the holidays are over. I'm starting a side hustle, and that'll be like $15 an hour. But that's only the weekend that I can do a side hustle because my job now is a 9:00-5:00.

So what? What happens after 5:00?

After 5:00?

After 5:00.

Is when you work.

From 5:00 AM to 9:00 AM.

When you're broke, that's when you work.

Yeah, I do have a one-year-old. My boyfriend has a one-year-old.

You can't have a one-year-old. That's impossible. That's physically impossible. It's not your baby, you're saying? Yes. Your boyfriend has a one-year-old. I'm sorry, baby, you're broke. You're not babysitting your boyfriend's kid when you're broke, and you got to get a place to live, and you don't have the money, right?

I don't think I have the money to know. Right now, I'm living with my sister. I've been out on my own since I was 17, 18. I've been living in people's rooms and just renting rooms. Now I want a place for just me and my boyfriend and his son.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You're not in a position to be taking care of people.

No, no.

No, I'm not. If he wants to get married and take care of you, we'll talk about it. What does he make?

He's not working.

Right now. Oh, this is real good.

Maggie.

Maggie, are you hearing yourself out loud?

He's making me feel like a firefighter. Yes, sir.

Yeah, yes, sir. If you were talking to your daughter and your daughter was you, you'd smack her.

Mom, I wish my mama would have.

Yeah, I know. But I mean, you listen to yourself. I'm going to move in with a guy who has a one-year-old and doesn't work.

And I have to take.

Care of the kid. I'm supposed to take care of these people. I think you need to go somewhere where there's grownups.

Why he's not working right now is he's becoming a firefighter. That doesn't start until the beginning of January, though. Right now, he's just waiting to.

See- Right now, he's not in school to be a firefighter. He's only waiting for which firehouse he's going to be doing. Why is he sitting on his butt during Christmas?

Yeah, it's a good question.

That's a.

Really good question. He should be driving for Uber from 5:00 AM to 8:00 AM.

You want to date my daughter.

You work. And then work all day and then delivering pizzas at night because that's what men do when they don't have a job and they have a one-year-old.

Yeah, and he hasn't worked for about eight.

Months now. I can almost guarantee you he's not going to the Fire Academy. You know how I know? Firemen don't live like that. That's not the character of a fireman. I know those men and those women. They work their fire shifts, and then they have another job, and they have another job on top of that. You know why? Because they are so invested in working and going out and serving their communities. I can almost guarantee you he won't go to the fire academy.

He's already gone, hadn't he?

Well, he's waiting to hear back.

He hasn't started yet.

Dave, he hasn't even started the fire academy yet.

He hasn't worked for eight months.

That's telling me- I thought he just finished. He was waiting to get a son of.

A child. Hold on. He has a one-year-old. How has he not worked for eight months? Have you supported him?

Yeah. His mom does a lot, and then his- Maggie, honey.

Maggie, please. Listen to two old.

Farts, okay? Both of us have daughters.

Run.

Run. As fast as you can. Run.

Oh, no. Yes. Oh, yes. I don't think I can.

Do that. Okay, I'm sorry. I can't help you, darling. You're running blind into the wall, and you're going to blow the car up when you hit it. I'm sorry. Honey, you've been a survivor. You bounced from room to room. You left home at 17 years old. Your mama didn't tell you not to do this stuff. Two guys who love you and love our daughters are telling you, If you were our daughter, we would get rid of Mr. Fireman. He would just disappear somewhere. We wouldn't be able to find him.

You're being preyed upon, sweetheart.

I'm telling you, this is not going to happen. You need an ugly, angry, older brother or father like one of us. We would tell him to go away, and if he didn't, we'd help you go away because you got the stuff to go get it done in the marketplace, girl. You can go out there, get you three jobs, get you an apartment, start you a life, start taking a degree field. I'll send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, From Paycheck to Purpose. You can start working on your career. You're sharp talking to you, but your judge of men is sucks.

When you have a man with a one-year-old who's responsible, he doesn't work for eight months, we call that a deadbeat, a burnout. If you ever listen to me talk or listen to my show, I'm overly compassionate. I've got zero compassion for a man who's got a toddler who is letting a 20-year-old girl living in her sister's house take care of them. Zero. None. Zero, zero, zero. You have a daughter. You have a child. Yeah. My goodness. Please, Maggie. He should be ashamed of himself.

But you're not going to do it. You're going to learn the hard way, and you're going to call me up at and you're going to go, Yeah, you were right. Now I've got all this debt, because I went and bought him a car and we rented an apartment and he didn't pay the bill and the landlord threw us out, and I've got a judgment lien from the landlord. You're going to be that caller if you go through with this. Please do not go move in with this guy. If you don't dump him, that's your business. I think you're on the way to dumping him. You should be. But for sure, for God's sake, quit giving him money and don't move in with him.

Let's say this. For those of you who have grown up the last five or six years like Maggie, you're on your own, you're bouncing from room to room to room, and you spend a lot of time on social media, it appears that things just happen. It appears that bills just get paid. What you're finding out is, Oh, I only make $2,300, but I have an inside job in a medical community, and it feels like I'm connected to something bigger, and I'm not working at McDonald's for God's sakes, or I'm not going to throw boxes at Walmart. I would never do that. You're going to realize that things don't just happen. You have to make enough money. It's a math problem. To make enough money to pay for your rent and for your water and for your food and for your electricity and for your car, all these things are very expensive, which means you got to go get one job. You got to get two jobs. You got to.

Get three jobs. Then you develop a plan that is a career where you don't have to work 80 hours a week. There you go. But it takes a few years to get into that. But most of us that are older than 30 have worked more than 40 hours, like more than 80 hours the first five years of our.

Working life. Or 10 of our life.

Or more, yeah. You have no life balance. No, I have a life that you wish you freaking had. I can tell you that. You just wish you had a 10th of my life. But I've worked my tail end off to get here.

That was a good self-censor, Dave.

I got that. You got it. Just right there. Right there. This is The Ramsey Show.

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, it's Dr. John Deloney. This time of year can be great, but the holidays can cause anxiety for a lot of people. Especially about giving gifts. Maybe your family makes super thoughtful, handmade things, or they demand you buy really expensive things, or maybe you just like experiencing time together, or you all just pick up random gift cards last minute. No matter how your family does gifting, remember to take care of yourself. Whether it's going easier on yourself during tough moments or treating yourself to a day of rest from everyone and everything, remember to give yourself some love this holiday season. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. Betterhelp is flexible because it's online, so it can fit into your busy holiday schedule. Just fill out a short questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists anytime for no extra charge. In the season of giving, give yourself what you need with better help. Visit betterhelp. Com/daloney today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P. Com/daloney. Dr.

John Deloney, Ramsey personality is my co-host today, Open Phones, Triple Eight, 8255, 225. This show has become inordinately successful with 30 million of you or so out there in a given month on YouTube's podcast on the various platforms, the 680 radio stations that carry us, because we understand that personal finance is not math, the problem with my money is the guy I shave with. The mathematics of becoming wealthy are somewhere you learn them somewhere around the sixth grade. This is not an intellect problem. This is a behavior problem. If I can get the moron in my mirror to behave, he can be skinny and rich, but he's got issues. He engages in stupid people tricks. To the extent that I have dysfunction in my relationships, I'm going to struggle to build wealth. To the extent that I have dysfunction in my behaviors like a lack of work ethic, a lack of integrity, other character issues, I'm going to struggle to build wealth. There is a tie-in between your emotional wellbeing, your relational acumen that is more predictive of your ability to become wealthy than your income. In other words, it doesn't matter what you make if you're addicted to cocaine, you're going to lose everything.

100% of addicts, as an example of this discussion, end up broke. Eventually, 100%. Eventually, some in 10 months, some in 10 years, and they lose everything. That's a misbehavior that caused that. It's not a math problem that caused that. It wasn't they didn't understand how mutual funds work. It wasn't that they didn't earn an income. A lot of cocaine addicts earn a great income, and they hide their addiction. But if you don't know how to interact with the opposite sex and you continually choose poorly in your mate, you are going to make it almost impossible to create a sustainable financial life.

Isn't that weird? Yeah, and I'm just haunted by that last call haunts me because when you say it, you won't accept this for your own child. Everyone goes, No, I would never accept that. But you just become blind to it, and you just keep doing it, and you just keep doing it, and you keep doing it, and you wonder, you keep going back to the money issue. Why are we broke? Why are we broke? Why are we broke? You got to let this predator who is preying on you and your time, you got to let him go. I ain't doing that. Well, there's not a crypto secret we can tell you to help you make money. There's not a budgeting hack we can give you. You and him have to go work. It's just tough, man. If you're not connected with your spouse.

You're in trouble. It can be a relational thing. One of the jokes that we had in the early days of the show was if you marry a woman that likes spending, you better enjoy working. But it's also the opposite way, obviously. If you marry a man that likes spending, you better enjoy working. But you can't out-earn it and you can't keep up. The correlation among millionaires between spouses that work together and that both shoulder the load together, it's almost 100% of them. There are very few people build wealth dragging a deadbeat along or dragging someone who's misbehaving in some area of their life along, someone who won't work, someone who can't tell the truth, someone that won't file their taxes, someone that lies all the time, just these dysfunctional people that are in all of our lives to the extent that they arethat were wrapped up with them pretty much ensures that we're going to create a situation where we can't build a sustainable financial situation. One of the reasons I've been able to build wealth is my wife is a freaking rock. She's a rock. The amount of drama in 43 years I've had at home when I got home at night with little kids at home was precisely zero.

The only drama in my house, I.

Bring it. Occasionally, there was drama before I got there. But it's not like, Wait till your daddy gets home. No. Fear the wrath of Sharon instead. I was not having to carry three or four things around while I was at work. I was carrying work around, and it's why we were able to make such progress.

Yeah, it's fun. They say that one of the greatest determinants for joy, happiness in your life, is marrying well. It's the most important decision you make because marrying poorly, it's disproportionate how bad your life is. Marrying well, it's disproportionate how wonderful it.

Makes your life. But our friend, Dr. Henry Clough, with the Book Boundaries, whether it is your marriage partner or not, just the other people in your.

Life- Your business.

Partner, your buddy. -that will suck the marrow out of your bones because you won't put up a boundary, or for some reason don't know to put up a boundary. You weren't raised in such a way, Well, I was raised. You always take care of Daddy. Well, did you notice that your Daddy is a problem?

Right. Well, that's just so and so.

Stop. That's just the way he is.

I would love a great exercise for folks is to write down the top 5, the 10, the 15 people in your life. They can be coworkers, they can be family members, they can be friends. If you're lucky, you got 10 in this current world we live in. You're exceptionally lucky if you got 15, write them down and just draw a line across the paper and say, a vampire or contributor? Is this a person that when I get done being around them, I'm just like... Or I get done being around them, and I can't wait to go hang out again. They are somebody that brings me up. I challenge you in 2024 to find opportunities to be around vampire people less, and to be around those who pour into you, who are excited, who challenge you more. That doesn't mean you get along all the time. Some of the people who contribute most of my life, man, we are buttonheads all the time, and I love them. I believe there's very similar things with some of the most vampireic people, I just made that word up, that just you get down, you're just like, Golly, dude.

I feel like I was just slogging through quicksand.

When you come out of a meeting or you come out of a social gathering with someone and you feel like you need to take a shower, I don't want to repeat this. I'm done. My wife's like, Well, we need to be nice. No, I don't need to.

Be nice. We need to be nice so.

That we can be nice. I'm not going to be nice. I can be nice from a further distance. I'll wave from over there. You know? But this close physical proximity with slime is a problem. It's okay. It's not that I'm a snob.

I like you, but I'm not going to hang out.

I can be nice to you. I can help you. I love you. I'm not going to. I can encourage you, but you're not going to be part of my crew.

That's right.

Yeah. Because you become who you hang around with.

If you find out that you're married to somebody who is more of a vampire than a contributor, this is the year. Let this be the year that you put that on the table and say, Let's build something new. Let's build.

Something new. I'm taking your sharp teeth.

Yeah, well, we're like the first caller of this hour that I'm going to be clear for the first time. Because I find myself, I don't like you. I don't want to be around you. The things you do annoy me, and I hem, and ha, and hint. I've never just been honest with you. I've just never told you. Let's put all that on the table this year and decide to heal this thing moving forward. Because at some point, there are people in the margins that are struggling. That's not who I'm talking to. I'm talking to most of us. Most of us, at some point, choose the relationships we have. We choose the dance that we choose to do and those things. At some point, somebody's got to pull the ripcord and say, This one's over. This one's over.

We're going to build something new. The reason for the sidebar right now is this? This is the time of year to look at this and say, Okay, I want you to leave from this little rant that we've done for the last five minutes. I want you to leave with this idea. Who you hang around with and who you are going to create relationship with is 100X more important towards whether you're able to build wealth than whether you understand how a mutual fund works or what your income is. They're going to screw up your life if you let them. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, host of The Dr. John Deloney Show, one of our most popular podcasts on the Ramsey Networks, number one best-selling author of Building a Non-Anxious Life is the latest number one that we did with him. It's a great book. He's my co-host today. Open phones at triple 8, 8255, 225. Merry Christmas America. Travis in Baltimore. Hi, Travis, how are you?

Hey, John, thanks for having me. Sure. I'll make this as quick as I can. Thirty-one years old, married. We have two kids. We don't own a home yet. Currently, five weeks into Financial Peace University. We paid off $1,000 of our debt so far. We have currently $44,000 in debt. My question for you is my previous employer had a profit sharing system set up. In March, I've been away from them for a year now, I went back over the road. In March, I can decide whether I want to roll money over to something or if I want to cash out however I want to do it. I have $51,000 in that account. Should I or could I use that money to wipe out baby step number two and start baby step number three and three B?

I think that's a qualified plan, meaning it's a type of retirement plan. Am I right?

Yes.

So if you cash it out early, you're going to get a 10 % penalty plus your tax rate. So what do you make a year? What's your household income?

So I make 100,000. My wife works part-time. She makes about 20.

Okay, all right. You're in 35% tax bracket, so you're in 35 % tax bracket. So you're going to pay 35 % plus 10 % on the money. So it's mathematically like asking, Hey, Dave, I want to borrow money at 45% interest to pay off some of my debt, that would be a dumb thing, right?

Mm-hmm.

We're not going to do that. We're going to roll it over, go to Ramsey Solutions and click on Smartvestor Pro and find a good financial broker in your area that we recommend that you can sit down with and help you do that rollover, and you need to roll it over into an IRA and not pay any taxes on it at all and let it grow. I just don't want to give up half the money or so to the government in the name of getting out of debt. That's a bad plan. But you're making 120 and you're only 0.44, right? Mm-hmm, yeah. You're just getting started. The good news is you've gone into attack mode. If you just keep turning up the heat on the attack mode, you'll probably be debt-free in under two years.

Okay.

Hey, Travis, can I challenge you a bit?

I'm sorry?

Can I challenge you a little bit?

Sure.

You've been in class five weeks?

Yeah, tonight is week number.

Five, yes. Excellent. You make 120 grand. How have you only paid off a thousand bucks? Do you have a pretty expensive lifestyle you're living?

Well, no. We started budgeting with every dollar. We literally just started.

We literally just- John's point is this. If you look at the big number, 120 minus 44 would be like 76,000. If you lived on 76,000 for one year, you'd be debt-free, not counting taxes, okay? Right. That's his point. That's not $1,000 a month. That's more like $4,000 a month.

I challenge you to get radical. Find what you can sell in your house.

Do you have tractors? I want you to lean down on it. That's what I'm saying. I think you're going to lean down into that budget. If you did it in two years, that's $2,000 a month. But $1,000 a month is not enough out of your budget. You need to cut more than that and get after the debt. But all of that to say, that's the way to go. John's exactly right. Let's go ahead and roll that money over so you don't give the government half of that. Then just beans and rice, rice and beans. We're not going out to eat. We're not going on vacation. We're going to attack this using the every dollar budget, and we're going to get it cleared up. For the first time in your life, you're going to be free and it's going to be worth it. It's going to be a complete pain in the butt for the next 18-24 months, but it's going to be worth it. Hey, thanks for calling in, man. Joe is with us in Atlanta. Hi, Joe. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Hey, John. Nice to talk to you guys. You too.

What's up?

Yes. I got a question. This is about 5:29 plan. I have two kids, one six, one, four, and we just found out we have two.

Coming next year.

So we have a.

Total of four.

Yeah, all right.

Yeah, pretty exciting. Once we got over the shock of having two at a time. My question is, we have a surplus of funds for this year. We are 100% debt-free, no.

Mortgage, no.

Cars, no debt of any kind, no credit card.

I hate it when that happens. I know it's hard. Wait a God, would you run for Congress? Yeah.

If I had any interest.

I would.

He's like, Man, brother, I was thinking Dave, but I'm also thinking about setting myself on fire. Yeah.

My question is, on the Georgia 529 plan, it's tax deductible up to 8,000 per kid per year. We can only have two right now because I often think you need a Social Security number for each account you set up. You do.

You're right.

Would you recommend, so we have a good amount of extra, just putting a lump, I don't know if we can put more in than 8,000, would you consider putting 50 grand in for each kid and just being done with it? Yeah. Or put it somewhere else and then every year, put a little bit.

More in. No, I mean, you can do that. The downside is 529, of course, has to be used for education, and any growth on the money is going to be taxed if you pull it out for something other than... And penalized if you pull it out for something other than education. That's your downside. So along with making a commitment to put 50 grand, which pretty well finishes it up if you're doing this for young children, that'll be it. They can cover undergrad with that. You're done. Check the box.

You're out.

I'm not sure if this is a new rule, but you can do 10,000 a year for a private school K-12. I believe that's what it is. That's true. If we were to do high school, private.

School- That's true. -you could drain it down down to anything. But if you don't put them in private school and they don't go to college, you got some money trapped in there. That's my only point. That's okay. We just say that out loud, which means when I started my kid's college funds, they were young like yours, and I just brainwashed them. I said, This is your college fund. This is your college fund, which presupposes you're going to college. We're not going to college and study left-handed puppetry. We're going to go study something that actually works in the marketplace, right? We don't want to get some nuanced, useless, freaking degree and then be a barista. That's not the plan. But yeah, all of that. Yeah, I would do that. I would do that. Now, with the Georgia 529, do not do the prepaid tuition. You do not do that. You're investing in mutual funds that you control the options and that you can decide where they go to school. You're not trapped in with prepaid. Don't do prepaid. That's not a good deal because the rate of return suck on that. And your options are very limited.

Good question, man. Thanks for calling. Thank you for joining us America. This is The Ramsey Show, Open phones at triple-eight-825-5225. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality is my co-host. Tanya is with us in Philadelphia. Hi, Tanya, what's up?

Hi. So I'm calling because I have a question. So I'm 25 years old. I'm a single mother. My income is about $47,000 a year, and I have about $18,000 in debt. $16,000 of that is a vehicle that they have it as a repo on my credit because I had a car accident and it was totaled. And the person who crashed me didn't have full coverage, and I didn't have full coverage either. So I'm in a situation where the car that I have right now has 192,000 miles on it, so it's going out on me and I'm in need of a new vehicle. And being that I have that repo on my credit, I'm having a hard time getting approved for another vehicle.

Good. It's the greatest thing that ever happened to you, honey.

Last thing you need is a car payment, kiddo. You're broke.

Yeah.

But you do need a car.

Yes. Wait, when you say it's going out on you, my truck has 197,000 miles on it. Is it just ugly or is it-No, it's not ugly.

-falling apart? No, it's not ugly. It's just starting to fall apart on me. I just put $1,500 into it trying to fix it, and it's still giving me problems. Okay.

All right. The car is probably worth what, $2,000?

No, not even. With the problem that it has not.

Even- You said you make what?

About.

$47. Okay, how many kids you got?

Just one. How old?

He's four.

Who watches him when you work?

He is at daycare. Okay.

Because the reason I'm asking is I'm trying to find you some money because I want you to scrape together, like you found the $1,500 to fix the car. I want you to scrape together $1,500 to $2,000, sell your car for $2,000, and buy a $4,000 car, which is a whole lot better than you've got now, but no car payments. Then I want you to do that again about a year from now. I don't want you to drive that car the rest of your life. But car payments are going to hold you back so much. It sounds like it's going to be... You're just so sick of having a crappy car that's unreliable and the stress that goes with that that it makes you jump ahead in your mind, just having something that's reliable is worth the pain of the payment. I'm trying to tell you before you get there, it's not.

Yeah. No, I'm just getting to the point where I'm a little frustrated.

Yeah, you're a lot frustrated. I would be.

I'm.

Frustrated with you.

I.

Understand and I agree with your frustration. I don't want it to lead you to a bad decision, and it's about to. Let's avoid car payments. I'm so glad you did not get approved, because if you had gotten approved, it would have been at a high rip-off subprime interest rate because you have a repo on your record.

Yeah.

You would have been screwed double.

Yeah.

Yeah, don't do that to yourself. Let's go pay cash for a... The difference in a $4,000 car and a $2,000 car is very dramatic.

Yeah.

Okay. Now, are you in a good church?

I do. I do attend.

A church. Do you have some guys around anywhere that could be your ugly uncle for a day or two and help you pick out a reliable car and not let someone mess with you because they think they can? But instead, the ugly uncle standing there and saying, This car is not real pretty, but it's a really good, reliable mechanical car. That's the one you buy when you're buying a $4,000 car. We're not trying to buy sex appeal. We want reliability.

Of course, yeah.

Sometimes when you're negotiating with someone on that, people are sexist.

And.

They'll do stuff for an old, ugly uncle they wouldn't do for a sweet young lady.

Yeah.

Or put a note in your church bulletin or let your folks know I'm looking for a great $3,500 car.

I'm a.

Single mom with.

A three-year-old and I need a reliable $4,000 car. Would someone help me find one?

Okay. You have people that raise their hand.

Yeah, you might have somebody give you one.

Hey, by the way, you don't like asking for help, do you?

I'm not. I am actually a police officer. You don't.

Like asking for help.

It's really hard for me to be that person to reach out and ask for help.

All right.

Hold on.

This is important. You have cast those people as people who ask for help. I want you to reframe that. That. I want you to know that the wisest people I know ask other wise people for support and help about things they don't know. Okay. It's not those people that ask for help. It's you. It's me. It's Dave. It's all of us. The wisest people I know reach out to other wise people and say, Hey, what do you think about this? Can you help me out with this? This is you stepping into.

A whole new identity. I don't go in and negotiate on something myself. I'm a really good business guy and a real good negotiator. But I don't go into an item or a situation that I know nothing about. I don't have any expertise in, I bring along the old ugly uncle myself.

Okay.

That's a really ugly uncle for Dave to bring.

If Dave says he's an ugly uncle, Oh, my God. Well, yes. You bring in the heavy, you bring in somebody beside you. If I'm negotiating on a tech thing, I don't know nothing about tech. I got 400 people at work here that do that, though. I'm going to bring in my top guy who's going to razzle-dazzle him with his academic and says all the tech words. They're like, Oh, God, these people know what they're doing. But when they're looking at me, they're pretty sure I don't.

Similarly, I guess the appearance is we have all the answers to every one of life's questions. A bunch of acres behind my place went up for sale. I immediately thought, Oh, yeah, I know a guy. His name is Dave, and I work with him. I said, Dave, this is what they're asking. You said, That's too much. I moved on. Every wise person I know asks other wise people. I don't know anybody that knows Middle Tennessee real estate better than you do. I would be foolish to not ask you that question. Ask people in your life for support and help however you can, man. Whether it's wisdom or whether it's, Hey, you need to come help me do this thing.

Do this thing. I can do it better with you than I can do it by myself. That's right. That's all we're saying. Thank you for being a policeman in Philadelphia.

Policewoman.

In Philadelphia. Policeperson, whatever we call that. I don't know. I cannot figure out how to do it. But anyway, I was trying to be nice, and then John screwed it up. Got on the wall. All right, anyway. Good stuff. Open phones at triple-eight, 825-5225. Guys, here's the thing. Cars, her situation with cars is a big deal. We did the exact thing. I did exactly this. A guy loaned me a car that was probably worth $300 because I didn't have a car. I had one and I need a second one. It was a 1978 Cadillac with 478,000 actual miles on it. The vinyl roof was torn loose across the front. So when you drove it, it filled up with air and looked like a flying parachute, and the predominant color was Bondo. That's the car I was driving. When you're driving that car, anything is moving up.

A $1,000.

Car is- A $1,000 car is moving way up. I got a $1,000 car. I did. I gave my buddy his car back. It was a loaner. He loaned it to me for a month, and I found $1,000 miraculously because I wasn't driving that. I can see you honking down. I had been driving a Jaguar, and I went bankrupt. Now I'm driving a Bondo buggy with a parachute on top. But I drove it to a thousand dollars. Then three months later, I bought a $3,000 car. Five months later, I bought a $10,000 car. Every time I just move up a little bit. But the difference in a $10,000 car and a $1,000 car is very dramatic.

It's.

Significant. It's very-dramatic. I could just- And none of that was with car payments.

I did it. I know I told you can do it.

I know you.

Told you it. I know you told you it. Honking the horn. Look, Sherry, I got a.

Thousand on car. When you pull up to the stoplight and your top is settling and people are looking at you, you just turn up the rap music, right? I mean, come on, man. This is The Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us America. Merry Christmas. The Ramsey Show, question of the day is sponsored by Naverley, your hub for home services, from repairs and maintenance to remodeling and upgrades. Naverley's trusted home service providers have trained local experts to handle almost any job. Great company. Download the Neighborly app and connect today.

Today's question comes from Sandra in Florida. Sandra writes, My spouse's spending is crippling our finances and our marriage. Each month, we have only about $500 to $600 left after monthly bills and minimum debt payments, and we only have a thousand dollars saved. I've tried to speak lovingly to my husband and let him know how much the overspending scares me and affects my mental health. I've also had moments of frustration and have blamed him for financial struggles, which I realize is not a healthy approach. Seems all my efforts and approaches are futile. I understand the Ramsey principles behind joint accounts and have lived this way for years, but at what point in my marriage do I say enough and separate myself financially?

Right before divorce.

Yeah, and I think we're here. I think we're close. This is way bigger, Dave, than... I'm glad she had the courage to write, is crippling our finances and our marriage because this type of behavior tells me there's other issues in that marriage. It's not just money.

Yeah, this guy has got the axis of the world stuck through the top of his head. Everything spins around him.

He's the most important thing that ever lived.

I'm telling you, his mama told him that. Now, nobody tells him anything.

I just can't imagine, Dave. Again, I don't have a psychology for this. I can't imagine Sheila taking me out and saying, Anything I'm doing, you're scaring me to death. And me going, Yeah, I don't care. I don't have that in my body. I don't understand that. I don't understand how you could respond to anybody that way. If the waitress at Waffle House sat down and said, Hey, the way you're doing things scares me, and I don't feel safe. I don't think I could be like, Yeah, I don't care. I just don't have that in me, man. I don't understand this dude at all. What a scumbag. I just don't get it. Don't get it.

Yeah, it could be just an immaturity. It could be a lot of things in all seriousness, all once I get past all my frustration and my name calling. There's two issues with this email. Number one, you guys need to sit down with a marriage counselor, and if he won't go, go by yourself so that you can start to get language to how you're going to decide how much longer you're going to do this. Because my experience with this, and I'm not a counselor and I'm not trained like John is, but for 30 years, I've done this and sat with couples. My experience is, particularly ladies, more so than men, they reach an end point, and it boils and boils and boils, and then suddenly they go over the edge and the switch flips. Once it flips, there's no getting her back. She's done. When she's done, she's like road kill. It's over. It's done, and you can't get it back. You're going to reach that boiling point if you don't do it intentionally with some help with a good coach, a good marriage counselor to give you words to do this in a very wise and reasonable way, it's going to sneak up on you and him.

You're just going to go, I'm done.

When somebody says the word futile, everything I've tried is for naught, is for.

Nothing- Yeah, that's lost hope. That's lost hope. That's right. You're getting really close, I'm telling you. If there's a chance that you save this marriage, it's going to be with some help guiding you through how to communicate to him if you can get through to Jello Brain here and get him to do this, okay? Now, if you can and you turn it around, that's great. That's thing one. That's the route to go. Hidden inside of this email is the question that I've been asking a bunch of times as a separate issue. How can I handle my money separately in a messed-up marriage and it be okay? The answer is you can't. You've got to make the marriage okay. If you want to have prosperity in your relationships and prosperity in your net worth, it has to be done from a functional standpoint, not surviving a bunch of misbehavior and still prospering in spite of it. That just doesn't happen in my experience. We see almost never does someone overcome this guy, not changing, and somehow you create a tactical way to separate your money. While you're still married to him and he continues to do the exact same thing, somehow you go off and become a millionaire.

That does not happen. That's just that's mythology. There's not a tactic, a legal document, a process that causes you to be able to swim with an anchor around your ankle. You guys have got to work through this or work your way out of it to be able to have a great life for both.

Of you. I think it's important to call out this husband is not being a person of fidelity. He is not upholding the marriage vows that said the sickness and health, till death do us part, this is ours, mine is yours, and yours is mine. He's not doing that. He's saying, I really don't care about you. I just don't. I just don't. It breaks my heart for you, Sandra. It breaks my heart.

Sad. Very sad. Josh is in Illinois. Hi, Josh. What's up?

Hi, Dave. I really appreciate you giving me your time. I'm going to try to make this quick. My family and I have always used a tax assistant to file our taxes. Now, in 2021, apparently, the taxes of both my dad and myself were filed incorrectly. And basically, it's showing on... At first the CP 2,000 notice, now it's CP 32,19A, it's showing zero dollars was shown on return for several of my employers. And then when it says reported by others, and then it gives how much money I paid. And the increase in tax or the deficiency on this is $9,548, and then a substantial tax understatement penalty is $583. Now, my question is-.

So the guy that did your taxes calculated your taxes wrong?

That may very well be the case.

Is that what you're telling me? I'm asking you. I'm making sure I understand what you're saying.

Yes, the taxes were filed incorrectly.

Okay, and so you have a $10,000 tax bill that you didn't think you had?

Right. This was from 2021. Ever since 2021, even though they just found it, they've been charging interest.

And- Yeah, that's what they do. -and stuff like that.

But.

The bottom line is if they had been filed correctly, you would have owed $10,000.

Correct. We received the refund that we probably should not.

Have received yet. Right. Did you go and have you had another tax professional look at the return and make sure that the IRS's proclamation is accurate.

Yes, sir. Here's the thing, actually. We know that this is accurate because it was a lady that did our returns that year. We are actually doing business right now with her sister. Not only did this original lady, Ghost, our family, over all this, she's not even talking to her sister anymore, and her and her sister had a fallen out.

Over the years. That doesn't mean anything.

She has- It doesn't matter.

I'm asking the question, have you had a tax professional that knows what the flip they're doing this time, actually go over this return and verify that you do owe $9,500-plus penalties? Yes. And we're trying to try to be- Your sister is reliable? Right, yes. You think? Why? Is she a enrolled agent, a CPA? What is she?

She is an enrolled agent.

Okay. All right. So you had a tax bill all along. You just didn't know it, and it's cost you 500 bucks in addition to that. You're just going to pay it, man. I mean, not a lot you can do about this. They're not liable for your tax bill because they calculated it wrong. Are they.

Liable for the penalty?

Maybe. You might get 500 bucks out of them, but it's not worth the dead gum trouble. Everybody in this story makes no sense. Yeah, I would just pay it. You could get an attorney trying to get 500 bucks out of the deadbeat if you want, but.

That's not… You'll pay more than $500 in fees?

You're going to have to pay more $500 to have the meeting. This is The Ramsey Show.

Don't.

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They taught things like how to not be broke?

Same here.

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John Deloney, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Open phones at triple-eight, 825-5255. René and Edward are with us in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Hey, guys, how are you?

Okay, we're good. How are you?

Good. How can we help?

What's so? Last year, my wife ran an apartment, and she really said she has mold poisoning. She went and the property manager guaranteed her an apartment that was mold free. She moved in. Three weeks later, had to move out, go to the emergency room, extremely sick from mold. She hired an independent mold inspector who came in. Test results showed that the place was livable, toxic mold, and needed remediation. So the property manager said she could move out, pay an extra month's rent, and she'd release her from her lease agreement. Well, yesterday, we got a call from the credit collector saying she owes them almost $4,000. It's $5,000. All right. They're willing to settle.

For $3,800. I'm confused why your wife moved out and rent on an apartment. I'm confused.

Because we.

Were separated. Oh, okay, that makes sense. Now you're back together. Right.

Yeah, because of this.

Because of the mold?

Because I had nowhere to go. Okay. My question, Dave, is the threatening that if she doesn't pay this, it'll ruin her credit, which is obvious. But should she pay them? Should we fight it? Should she not worry about her credit? But I can't work right now. I'm still very, very sick, so I can't work.

Okay. What is your all's financial situation? I assume you don't have any money.

Well, I mean, we're debt-free. I work. He makes good money. He makes plenty of money. Yeah, she lives with me. She doesn't work. She's sick. But when she gets well, she wants to move out. So she doesn't want credit ruined.

Okay, well, obviously the lesson learned is you didn't get it in writing. You got a verbal from the landlord, right?

Right.

So that's the lesson learned. This would have been a lot easier. The landlord is an individual or a manager of a complex?

He is the property manager of the complex, but not the property management company, which is the one trying to collect.

The.

Fees.

For the property. But this guy is an employee of them. Yeah. Yeah, correct. Okay. All right. Hardball would sound like this. Contact an attorney. First thing I would do is the two of you get in the car... I'm going to go right over and meet with this manager that made you this promise in person and say, Look, you told me we were out. Now I'm getting hassled for five grand here. I'm not going to pay the five grand. You told me we were out. I'll put you on the stand as a witness. Unless you're willing to perjure yourself, which is a criminal act, you will tell the court that you said I was out of the lease, at which point I will be out of the lease. You need to get with your team over here and get this collections effort stopped, and I need in writing from you in the next couple of days that this is all going away and there's no problem. If you do that, I will not sue you for my medical bills because you misled me and put me in an apartment with mold. If you do not do this, and I'm not out of this instantly, my attorney is going to sue you personally, sue your company for my lost wages and my medical bills and for release of this.

But I don't want to play that. I would rather you just keep your word and your company keep your word and release me, and we'll go on our way.

Right.

In person, very clear. Do not raise your voice. Do not use swear words, but very direct with deep eye contact representing anger. Okay. Do you.

Follow me? This was over a year ago, and that's the assumption.

That same- I don't care. This is your best place to start. This is the cheapest way to fix this. Okay. Because people that think when you get lawyers and you get into the court system that you get justice, there is no such thing. The only one that gets justice is the lawyer's kid whose tuition gets paid by you.

Okay.

This is not going to go anywhere else. But if you have to hire an attorney and go after these people, you go after them for your lost wages because they fraudulently misrepresented and cost you your health. We're not only going to go for a lease of the lease, we're going to go for compensation on top of that. We're going to make your freaking life miserable if you make me make a hobby out of you. Right. We don't want to do any of this. You don't want to do it. I don't want to do it. They don't want to do it, and they need to hear that real clearly from you. The best thing they can do is just quickly get me a piece of paper that says I owe you zero, and I will simultaneously release you from your liability for lying to me and making me sick.

Yeah.

I'd probably have a Manila folder with your medical bills, the report from the mold folks, too. I would ask him in that office to print off all the bills he sent you over the last calendar year because it's probably going to be zero.

Okay. All right. Subsequent to that, let's assume that that person is no longer employed there, which is most likely.

The scenario. Well, then talk to the current manager there and tell them what happened and tell them what you're going to do, and let that manager see. If I'm the manager sitting there and you tell me that, I'm going to the regional manager who turned this over to collections and go, Look, the duffus that was here before me screwed this lady. She's giving us an opportunity to get off light. We need to let her go.

Right. Okay. In the event-.

They don't get a lawyer.

Well, okay, but the collection guy, the guy from the.

Collection company- He's an idiot.

-is inside of their... They're no longer involved.

It's now in.

Collections-.

Bull crap. Bull crap. That's what they all say. I don't give a crap what the collection. Collection agency is an idiot. Just move on. That guy, he sits in a cubicle and calls people that don't pay their bills all day. He's got no power at all. Okay. The company turned this over to collections. They did not sell it. They still own the problem. They just hired a hitman. The hitman's got no ability to do anything but pull the trigger. You don't negotiate with the hitman. You go to the mob boss and get the hitman called off.

Yeah, you're right. All of this sits on some manufactured principle you guys are carrying around that I just want to burst a slow bubble for you. Who cares about your stupid credit? Nobody cares. Don't borrow money. Whenever you decide to move back out, you're going to need first and last month's rent, so you have to figure out work, you're going to figure out money, and then you're going to pay them, you're going to move on with your life. Right.

But if I don't have credit, how could I do that, right?

You don't need credit.

You don't need credit.

It's a myth. People rent apartments every day without credit with first and last months rent. Really?

Because everything I've ever tried, they wanted to see.

My credit- Really? We called 22 apartments the other day around here as a test and found every one of them but two would rent to you.

That was over the phone.

That was just over the phone without even telling me. I'm new. I'm moving to town, I'm moving out. My husband and I are separating. I've got a job. I make first and last month's rent. I got no credit. They'll rent to you and just go on. Now, corporate idiots like you've been dealing with are the ones that won't. They'll pull a credit bureau on you. But look, you've got to go deal with this. If you don't deal with it, it's not going to get anything but worse. Get over there. Why not? It's Christmas time. Go over there this week. Sit down. Go look, if it's the moron that was here before you do it, it's not your fault. But he made a promise, and we're going to hold your company to that promise. If you don't, then we're going to sue you for the health issues. I've not contacted an attorney yet, but I'm leaving here and going to contact one unless you tell me you think you can get this fixed.

Every email that was sent around this is going to be public record. So all those emails that he sent.

His bosses and- Everything anybody ever said on a text or said on an email is going to be part of the deposition.

Let them know.

We're going to completely give you an anal exam. That's what's going to happen. Get ready. That's what lawsuits look like. There ain't no fun. Nobody enjoys the process. Oh, my gosh. This is The Ramsey Show. Fly, live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney. Ramsey personality is our co-host today. Number one best-selling author of the book, No Own Your Past, Change Your Future, and the latest one, Building a Non-Anxious Life. He's also the host of the Dr. John Deloney show, where we talk about mental health issues and relationship things. We're here to help you today, guys. Merry Christmas. Glad you're with us. Azzy is up this hour. Azzy's in El Paso, Texas. Hi, Azzy. How are you?

He's going.

Off the rails on the- Thank you for taking my call. This is really awesome. Cool. How can we help?

I was going to make an Azzy, Osborn joke, but I screwed up. So there we go. What's up, Azzy?

Hey, guys. I tried listening to you guys about three months ago with my wife. We saw you guys on YouTube, and I think this is the best thing ever.

Well, thank you.

Thank you, Dave. We're working on Babysteps. Basically, we have about $25,000 in student debt and $20,000 in car loans. Basically, my question is, should I extend my lease in my apartment to pay those off and then get a house? Or should I put a dump in? Okay.

We tell folks not to buy a house while you're in debt because it's going to cause you to buy a different house than you would buy if you were debt free. If you move into a house with a bunch of student loan payments and a car payment, the first week you're there, the hot water heater will go out.

You.

Want to have everything cleaned up to where when you move into the house, the house is a blessing. So, yeah, extend your lease and lean in, get on that every dollar budget, cut down to nothing on your lifestyle. Let's get this debt cleaned up as fast as you can. It sounds like you got 40-something thousand in debt. Did I hear that right? Yes, sir.

Okay. What's your household income?

We make about 120.

Okay. How fast do you think you're going to pay this off?

Really.

Fast. What's really fast?

I think maybe eight months.

Eight? Yes. I love that. You are down to nothing. I like it. That's intensity right there, man.

Be weary of people who know how much money you're making or wondering why you're living like you're living. If you live spartan, people are going to say like, Man, you got all this money, you don't need to just put your.

Head down. Just put your head down and get it done. Keep it going. That's the number right there. I love it. You can do this in one year or less. I'm calling you a stud, okay? Have at it. Do it. That's the best thing you can do. The faster you get clear, the faster you get to save a down payment in an emergency fund, and the faster you get your house. You're probably about two years from buying a house, which is perfectly fine. No problem with that at all. Charles is with us in Jacksonville, Florida. Hey, Charles, how are you?

Doing well. Thanks so much, guys. Really better than I deserve, I guess. Just wanted to say thank you, first of all, Dave. We're on Baby Step 6. We've got six kids, and you've really just changed our lives, our family's lives. So first and foremost, thank you for all.

Of that. Well, thank you. Way to go, man. I'm proud of you.

Absolutely. So quick question for you. I'm supporting my mom financially. She's got some retirement but really not a lot of savings. We've been able to get her to pay off all her debt and just been very fortunate in bringing her on board as well. She does have a $200,000 whole life policy that she got back in 1996. Oh, my God. She probably put about 60,000 or so into it at this point. It just jacked up in price. There's no cash value in it. So it's 425 a month, not.

Something that she's -There's no cash value?

There's no cash value? Yeah, I've been.

Looking into it. I always.

Knew it was there, but I realized it was a mess. And what makes this more complicated is she and my dad had both got into this back in '96, and he passed away about eight, nine years ago. And they had ended his policy 10 months before he passed away. So they had sunk a lot of money into that one, too. But they couldn't afford it anymore. They...

Yeah, so- Okay, this is not an investment. It's just a bad story. Yes. So just cancel it. Just cancel it. Is she terminally ill?

She's not. We've looked at selling the policy.

No, don't get into via articles. Just sell it. Just close it. Just shut it down. Just a bad idea. You got a hole in your pocket. Quit putting money in the pocket.

Yeah, absolutely. Is there any way to convert it into a term? I mean, is there anything we can do that it's just-.

No, it's got no cash value. If you convert it to a term, you got a term insurance policy on an old lady. It's going to be expensive. Life insurance is based on age. The older you are, the more likely you are to die, and the higher the premiums are. It's a pretty simple formula, right?

Absolutely. She's in.

Relatively good health. Yeah. If you try to get a term policy, that's what you're going to run into is my point. She doesn't need a bunch of life insurance. She's not supporting anyone. If she passes away, you're taking care of her.

Absolutely.

I should say, I'm sorry, when she passes away, we all are going to pass away. None of us get out of here. Yeah, I mean, it's just a matter of timing. The bottom line is she just owns a bad financial product that she never needed, but for sure doesn't need now.

Absolutely. Mourning the loss of that $60,000.

Yeah, that's what's causing you hesitation. You're still trying to get something out of this- It's a sunk cost. -and say, God, we got screwed and I don't want to.

Admit it. Let's move on.

Yeah, and I was 10 at the time or whatever, and certainly that 60,000 could have grown to a lot more right now. I mean, I.

Think it would have gone to death. It would have been a ton of money. Yeah, it would have been. Your mom and dad both would have had so much money if they'd have bought inexpensive term insurance and done real investing instead of getting screwed by some whole life agent. Probably some guy they knew.

Crazy that it's legal. I mean, obviously, I didn't know any of this when I was.

10, but- They're the payday lender of the middle class.

Yeah.

Here's the deal, though. Here's the deal. The first step I put in my book about building a non-anxious life is you have to choose reality. Because what you're doing is you're spinning up stories. You're angry, you're thinking about what could have been. I was 10 years old. All that does is spin up your body, you go to war on a battle you can't fight.

Yeah, there's no winning here. It's just ending it. Just stop.

I.

Put $60,000 in my pocket. There was a hole in it. I lost the $60,000. Now, what do I do now? Well, you sew up the hole and you don't put any more money in that pocket until you sow up the hole. We're canceling this stupid thing and run the guy off with a stick. That's all you're doing. It is that simple. I'm sorry, man. I'm sorry your parents got ripped off. Yeah, I hate that. But I mean, it's car leasing, whole life, life insurance, timeshares. I mean, these are the things that just eat credit cards or the credit card interest rates. Oh, my God. They just eat people's lunch. They just tear them up pieces, man. When you actually understand how these products work, you go, God, that is a legalized fraud. But it is legal. It's perfectly legal. It's just a horrible product. Never buy life insurance ever that has a savings component to it of any kind. There's not a place, there's not a time that it works. There's only one person that works for that's the life insurance company. That's it. It's screwing you 100% of the time. Hope I wasn't unclear.

What's up, guys? It's Jade Warsha. Now, tell me the truth. Are you just watching the expenses rack up and wondering how on earth you're going to make it through the holidays?

But.

I've got the secret ingredient that's going to help you find some breathing room. It's an every dollar budget. Guys, this works because you make a plan for every single dollar and you know exactly where you stand before the month even begins and you can get started for free. Just head to everydollar. Com or download the app from the App Store today. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Open phones at triple-eight, 825-5225. Thank you for joining us, America. Merry Christmas to you. Jason is in San Antonio, Texas. Love your town, Jason. What's up?

Thank you, sir. First, I want to start off by thanking you. You've changed my life. On our last three real estate transactions, we've definitely been blessed, and we are on baby step seven. Thank God.

Way to go.

Thank you, I'm glad to hear. We are in a position where we could potentially be looking at a real estate investment. I know you have prolific experience in investing, and I wanted to ask your opinion on setting up potentially a business to invest in, like an LLC or under my name, and then how to properly find investment properties to invest in, and then.

Obviously, how.

Do we manage it? Do we do flips? Do we do rentals?

What's.

Your opinion on stuff like that?

Okay, well, there's a lot of different things you can do there. That's a whole real estate course you're talking about, in a sense. But as you probably have already figured out, I'm unusual and I pay cash for all mine or I don't buy it. That's thing one. I do put all of our properties in an LLC. We don't buy residential houses anymore in our situation. We've got a bunch of them, but we're not adding any. When we were buying those, we would put up to $5 million worth into an LLC, and then we would form another LLC. The reason for that is if an LLC owns the rental house, the tenant gets drunk and falls off the porch and decides it's your fault and sues you, they have to sue the owner of the house, which is the LLC. Exactly. Okay. If they were to win, they can take what that LLC owns, but nothing else. So your other assets, like your personal residence, are then protected. So by putting your properties up to a certain point in an LLC, and then once the target on the LLC gets too big, you do another LLC.

I've got a bunch of them. I've got one building that's a $15 million office building. It's its own LLC, okay? You see what I'm doing? But if somebody falls over there, the worst-case scenario, if they get past the insurance, they get past me, pipe paying lawyers to sue them for being stupid and so on, the most they're going to get is that building. You follow me? Yes, sir, I think that's- If you're going to buy a house or two, form an LLC, throw them in there. Now, then as far as whether you're flipping them or whether you're holding them, then that's a completely different strategy in terms of what you're looking for and what you want to do and that stuff. Flipping has been made famous, of course, by cable television. Everybody thinks they're Chipp and Joanna. I probably done 2,500 flips in my life, but mostly in another life before I did this. Yes, I hardly ever sell a piece of real estate now. I buy it and hold it forever. Flips are a pain in the butt because you're basically in the business of renovating properties and reselling them, finding another one, renovating it and reselling it.

If you want to do that as your business, that's okay. But it's time-consuming. You're running subs, you're running paint colors, picking faucets. It's like building a dadgum house. I mean, you're going to pick roofs, you're going to do all these things, and then pull building permits. You're going to have to do all this stuff, depending on how much work is being done to the house and the proximity to a city, the municipality that you got to do that. You got to go through all that stuff. After you get through all of that, you can make some money doing it if you bought the thing right. You just decide if you want to do that or not. On rentals, the best rates of return are cheap properties, but they're the highest hassle. In other words, the more expensive the rent, typically the classier the tenant, right? More stable. Yeah, and they're more stable. But if you got lower income property, you're having to fight all kinds of other misbehaviors and other stuff in the properties, but the returns are excellent. So it's a hassle fact. Right now, I'm looking at about-.

Hustle fact. -about $125,000 is about what we have left over from the most recent sale. I just parked.

It in an.

S&p, not knowing what to do with it. Yeah, that's fine. We can take that and buy.

One or two. If you want to buy one and flip it and roll it up into something. But think about what it is you want to own for 10 years if you're buying a rental. From personal experience, I'll tell you, you're a brand new landlord. You don't want to deal with lower-income property. It's a pain in the butt. I mean, it becomes its own business. You have to have a brain adjustment when you do it because you have to think different. But all the residential I have today is really high-end single families. I don't know how. I got 10 or 15 of them. I don't have a bunch of them. Most of our stuff is commercial. All of that to say, you just got to decide what you want to do. But don't underestimate the hassle factor of what you're stepping into. A flip is a big hassle, I'm telling you. You make some money, but it's a job. Dealing with lower income people, you make a great rate of return, but it's a hassle. It becomes a job, and it requires a cultural adjustment in your brain because it's a different psyche that you're dealing with as a customer.

By and large, not all the time, but as a generalization, call it a stereotype if you want to. Then the same thing on the other end. But if you're going to buy something to hold, look at it and go, How's this going to age in 10 years? Is it already 50 years old? Then it's going to be 60 years old 10 years from now. You're going to start to… How old are you, Dave? I know, but I'm talking about houses. I look at the house I grew up in, and I think that's a stinking house, how old it is now. Oh, yeah. Wow! I wouldn't buy that house. That's old.

Same as when I grew up in.

That's the thing. But it's a great question. But I think the biggest mistake, this frenzy we have, John, and people, and Jason, the people we have out here wanting to buy real estate right now, the biggest mistake is that they probably understand about 10% of how hard it's going to be.

I like the way you're framing it because you're asking, What life do you want? Then we're going to buy a house or flip a house based on that. Because if you want to get in there and get your hands dirty and deal with knocking on doors, and, Hey, you can't do this, and you can't light fires in the yard, that's a life, right?

You can't run drugs out of our house.

That's right. If you want to mess with subs and have fun with doing that and flipping it and pick faucets, and that brings you or whoever your business partners, Joy, knock your lights out. But that's a different life.

If you want to set it and forget it-But this idea on TikTok that you can just buy houses and I've got this passive income. People who say passive income on real estate are morons. There's nothing passive about owning real estate. It's active. Right. It's very active. I don't own a single piece of property that's passive. I own about several hundred million dollars worth. Oh, my God, it's not passive. There's no body- Crypto. What passive is is mutual funds. They send me a statement in my inbox. That's all I deal with. That's passive. But no, there's no real estate passive income. That's somebody trying to sell you a get-rich-quick seminar on TikTok or TikTok or whatever the type of app it is. Real estate is a wonderful investment, but do not go into it, folks, with rose-colored glasses thinking it's going to be easy. It's a process. You're going to get rich quick. It's not quick, it's not easy. There's a hassle. It's a problem. It's like starting your own business. It's the meanest boss you'll ever work for in your life. The guy will work you into the ground. Don't start your own business and think it's going to fix all your problems.

It just makes all your problems come home on your plate. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Were the person who makes fitness analogies, which.

Thank goodness I'm not, I would say the Ramsey Christmas.

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Ramseysolutions.

Com/store. Dr. John Deloney.

Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're so glad you're here. Jeremy and Dolphins are with us on the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. How are you guys?

-bless, better than amazing.

-bless, better than amazing. I love it. Very fun. Where do you guys live?

I'm not living.

Yeah, go ahead.

Okay, walks to Hattee, Texas. Which is.

It's about 20 minutes south of Dallas.

Just about 35. Oh, okay.

Okay, that one. Of 287.

Yeah, exactly. Look at you, Texas people talking code. All right, I love it. Way to go, guys. Congratulations. Welcome to Nashville. Merry Christmas. How much debt did you pay off? $128,849.83 cents. I love it. How long did this take? 57 months. Okay, way to go. And your range of household income during that 57 months. It was.

65k to.

About 110k. Neat. What do you all do for a living?

We're both teachers, and I'm actually a high school.

Football coach. Oh, wow. Very good. Good for you guys. What debt was the 129?

It was a mixture of school loans. We owe some money to the IRS. There was a car loan, credit cards. There was an old medical bill, and a past eviction from my college days.

Okay, cool. Very good. Way to go, you guys. Excellent. What happened 57 months ago?

I was actually teaching multiple math classes. One of them was a financial math course. During my lunch break, I was scrolling through Facebook and the Rachel Cruz show came up, and I was just listening to her. Then she had Chris Hogan on, and they talked about the third job for being millionaires is a teacher. I was always a person that I was like, Oh, well, I'm just never going to make it, or I'm just going to always be broke because I'm a teacher. When I heard that, I was like, Okay, I'll bite. Let's hear about this. Then that's when I started listening to your show more, and I got hooked immediately, and then I kept trying to convince her, and she was not really having it.

Yes, I was.

Like, A budget?

What? Then after a.

While, we.

Started talking about her dreams and things like that. I was like, Okay.

I'll.

Bite. Then right after.

That, I finally convinced her to let me buy FPU, and then she decided to go on a spending spree.

That weekend. Yes. Of course. Well, you got to eat chocolate cake when you start your diet. Yes. Okay, all right.

But we ended up binging basically all nine episodes in probably about.

Four or five days. Okay.

We didn't have a group to really get plugged into, so we just started listening. After the first lesson, she was hooked and we were like, All right, let's go.

Oh, wow. Once you're on, you're on. Yes. Okay. All right. Then two teachers' salaries, you plow your way through $129,000.

Well, she actually wasn't a.

Teacher at first.

Okay.

I was.

Actually wanting to... We had moved up to Houston.

So that I.

Could go to optometry school after.

We.

Both graduated from college. And then I changed my mind.

During COVID.

Because I.

Was also working for an.

Optometrist and shadowing him.

And I realized that.

My passion is to help people and to serve people.

And I.

Felt.

That I could still do that through teaching.

So that's why I changed my mind.

And we plowed.

Through that and.

Getting my teachers served. And I.

Started just focusing and teaching kids. And we started.

Focusing on that debt, and we ended up.

Taking up extra jobs on the weekends and everything.

So.

Our shirts. Yeah, we worked at Gateway Church. We worked in the children's ministry.

Yeah, okay. Yes. Pastor Morris is a good friend of mine. Yes. Good people. Way to go, guys. Good for you guys. I'm proud of you.

What was the hardest thing you guys thought about over almost five years? I mean, there was- She looked at you like she knows exactly the answer, and you are looking like, We never fought. Everything was great. Go ahead. Okay.

For me, it was having to stick to the budget was the hardest thing for me. I felt like.

I was always trying to.

Push it.

Push the nodule on trying to spend and.

Trying to be.

Socially acceptable all the time and feeling.

That I always.

Could not be empty handed.

Because that's the way I.

Grew up.

If you show up to.

Family get-togethers or birthdays, or even if.

You're at.

Your job and they have a.

Party and you.

Have to.

Bring something, I.

Always felt.

That.

Pressure of, We.

Have to spend so that.

We can keep up with everyone. And I realized that I had to just stop caring about that so much and focusing on our dream.

Together.

And being out of debt.

That's powerful. How has your marriage changed over the five years of working through this? Well, we actually starting off our debt-free journey within the first three months, we were actually on the rocks. We actually went through marriage counseling almost immediately after we started FPU. Wow. About two months after we started marriage counseling, I actually lost my job. So just to make ends meet, I ended up getting a job as an assistant manager at McDonald's.

This is when we were living in Beaumont. Ever since then, though, our communication has gotten better. Money, I don't feel like it ever was the biggest fight. It was always just something lingering. It was always usually just communication errors. Then we had arguments about cars too, because you'll like this one. Throughout our entire Debt Free journey, we went through 10 vehicles.

Good.

Lord. Nine of them were in the first two years. Yes.

Yeah, we had a- Were you driving junkers or throwaways?

Starting off, we had a 2015 Chevy Cruze and a 2004 Mitsubishi Lancer.

Both a piece of junk.

Yes. The Chevy Cruze was the one we had a loan on. After I lost my job, we sold it, and then we ended up getting a '99 Toyota Camry.

That's better.

When we moved to Houston, I actually wrecked the Mitsubishi, Lancer.

Yeah. Wow, you are not coming out the hero in any of this.

It gets better. It gets better. Then we ended up getting a '97 Toyota 400.

That's not bad.

Yeah. Then the '99 Camry, the tiny belt breaks while I'm driving up the freeway in Houston. My dad ended up helping us out, giving us a 2,000 Toyota Camry.

That's better.

While she was driving it right after a melda hit, the wheel popped off the axel.

Oh, my gosh.

Yes. My dad felt bad.

He brought us a- He almost killed his daughter-in-law. Yeah. How fast were you going? The speed limit? In Houston? No, you're not telling the.

Truth because nobody drives speed limit in Houston.

Well, it was a back road, so.

I had to.

Be careful. I'm not used.

To being on.

Back roads all the time. Well, because the thing was, she was driving to Beaumont from Houston, which is about an hour and a half to two-hour drive because that's.

Where her job was. Hard to do it on three wheels.

Then we were living on the north side of Houston. I was actually working on the south side, which, John, as you know, Houston is an hour away from Houston. That's right. I was actually getting up at 4:00.

Am in the morning. In the middle of all this bull crap, how many times did you almost quit getting out of debt?

Too many times to really count.

What caused you to stick with it? That's amazing. I'm impressed. For us, it was just having those dream talks and rewatching the lessons. It's worth the trouble. Now that you're there and you look back on all that stupid car, I mean, that's like a book. You got to write a book on bad cars, the bad car experience. Was it worth it?

Yes. 100%.

I wouldn't.

Trade it for anything. I would do it all again.

You need to write all those cars down in detail so you can tell your grandkids, because you'll forget them. I've had to go back and figure out what cars I've owned over the years, and I didn't go through 10 in 10 months. Oh, my God. That's incredible. Way to go, you guys. I'm so proud of you because the perseverance that you built and the locking arms, even though you hated every moment of it and at times didn't like each other while you're doing it, you still, that what the calluses that you built, you're going to be able to do anything you want to do with your life. I'm so proud of you. So very cool. All right, count it down, guys. $129,000 paid off in 57 months, making 65-110. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Ready? Three, two, one.

We're debt-free. That's how that works. This is The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 16:28, A troublemaker plants seeds of strife. Gossop separates the best of friends. Thomas Sowell says, You can't stop people from saying bad things about you. All you can do is make them lies.

That's fantastic.

That's pretty good. All right, Patrick's with us in Nashville. Hey, Patrick, welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hey, Dave. Hey, John. It's good to be talking to you all.

You too, man. How can we help? Yeah, first of all, and.

I'll be quick. First of all, I just wanted to say thank you for the.

Work that.

You all do, you and your entire team. I'm on baby step number two still, so very early on in the process, but I can already tell you what.

Education you put.

Out and the things that I've learned from you all have changed my financial future. Honestly, even more than that, my kids and maybe children's children's financial future.

Thank you. Well, thank you, Patrick. We're proud of you. How can we help? Yeah.

I guess my question.

Ultimately falls around manual underwriting.

I want to give a little context. I work in higher education, so Dr. John knows my world very much. Essentially, my question is regarding a potential job opportunity. There's a position that I've been asked to apply for. I am applying for it that essentially will give me free housing, meal stipend, phone bill paid for. So cover a lot of my essential expenses. Essentially, I'm.

Wondering.

What that looks like with if I do go through this entire.

Process, become.

Debt free, no credit score, figure out if that affects any way.

Negatively manual underwriting.

No, it does not. I did the exact thing. I lived on campus. I had all my bills taken care of. It affects nothing. It's all good. Take advantage of that glitch in the matrix and pay off everything you own, put tons of money away.

Manual and writing does not require a rental for it to be approved, a rental background. Now, if you've paid rent, they're going to want to see that. But in this case, you're not. For instance, another place you would have this happen is if you were in the military and you're using base housing, that wouldn't count against you. It just becomes part of your compensation at your job is what amounts to. It's very explainable because the essence of manual underwriting is that instead of looking at a number that says that you can pay your bills, they're actually looking at your life. Can you pay your bills? Manual means a human being is making a value, wisdom, judgment on behalf of the mortgage company and saying, Okay, I've got this piece of information that says he can pay his bills. I've got this piece of information that says he can pay his bills. I've got this piece of information that says he can pay his bills. I've got this piece of information that says he can pay his bills. That's what they're looking for. When I was a pup at 18 or 20 years old in the '70s and '80s selling real estate, we would take...

There was no FICO score. We would put a house under contract with someone, and we would take them over to the savings and loan, the bank. They would sit down and say, All right, sign this. It's a verification of deposit. They would mail it to the bank to verify that you had a deposit. Sign this. It's a VOE, a verification of employment. They would mail it to your employer to verify your income and that you had a job. Sign this. It's a verification of that. They would gather these data points, and then they would look at them and go, This guy can pay his bills. There was not any shocking revelation out of a magic number that somehow falsely said you were eligible. That's what's going on here. That's the essence of the idea of manual underwriting, and that'll put you right where you want to be. I'm proud of you, Patrick. Go take your job, man. That's great.

Yeah, go get it.

Get it.

That job changed my family's life, so go get it.

Where were you?

I was in Texas, and I was over... I would have been his boss, and I had an empty apartment. This is when my wife and I decided, Hey, if we sold our house, we moved in this house, we could pay off everything we own in the next... So we paid off a billion dollars.

So you sold your house and moved into the- I moved into an apartment.

-that was provided.

That was provided, and had all the bills. Then Hank had 175 college students as his roommates in the building we lived in, and ended up being a pretty magic year for us.

Wow.

Yeah. Very interesting. But it transformed our lives.

Denise is with us in Houston, Texas. Hi, Denise. Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hi, Dave. Hi, John. Thank you guys so much for taking my call. It's my birthday today, so I'm definitely happy.

To- Happy birthday.

Thank you so much. My question is, I am wondering if I should or how I can get out of my car situation. I currently have a 2020 Kia Forte, negative equity in it. Unfortunately, I purchased it last year, and I just feel like it's draining the ability for me to be able to have higher savings and just get to a better place. What are you all on? I don't really know if it's... $22,000.

Okay, what do you make?

$57,000.

What's your car payment?

Car payment is 460. Okay.

What do you think it's worth?

From KBB, I looked up it's worth about $13,000.

Or $14,000. That's trade-in.

No, she rolled in negative equity.

Oh, you rolled in negative equity. Correct. Oh, I missed that part. Oh, Jeez. Okay, is that private sale? You owe $0.14?

Yes, private sale.

Or it's worth 14, I'm sorry. So you're eight in the hall.

I would owe roughly $8,000, yeah.

I.

Thought maybe pretty soon I could start trying to double up on payment and get out of my balance sooner, my term that I got for-.

How much other debt do you have?

6k in student loans, 2,100, and a credit card. That's it.

Now I'm just going to work your debt snowball, pay your minimum payments, and pay everything you can on your smallest debt. Then when that was gone, pay everything you can on your next smallest debt, that's $10,000, clear that. Then when you don't have those two payments anymore, then we're going to tear into this car and we're going to pay, not double payments, but triple, quadruple payments or whatever. Pay $3,000 a month on it, I don't care. Let's just get it paid down. Because the car is not the problem. The car before this car is the problem. You're not solving the math problem when you go from 22-8. If you go from 22-2, you'd be solving the math problem, right?

Right.

But you don't make enough headway here by getting rid of this, by sacrificing this car. In this case, what I would do is just tear into it with a vengeance and say, Okay, I've got $32,000 worth of debt. I make 57. I'm going to work six jobs, do nothing, not go out to eat. I'm going to pour everything I can get my hands on to this $32,000 worth of debt. In 18-24 months, I'm going to be 100% debt-free car and everything. Then if you want to sell the car, sell it, but get it paid off.

Perfect. That's what I was thinking. Thank you guys so much.

Yeah, you get it. Have you been through Financial Peace University yet, Marie?

Denise, I have not, no.

I'm sorry, Denise.

I'm sorry.

I'm looking.

At the wrong screen. It's okay. When I was younger, I did my family- How old.

Are you?

-were when I was... I'm 29 today.

That's happy birthday. Hey, we're going to give you a birthday gift and a Christmas gift. I want you to go through Financial Peace University as my guest. Okay, thank you so much. Yeah, I want you to go do that stuff because I can hear it in the way you're looking at this and the way you're forming your language, you're actually going to do it. You're going to do this.

I am very passionate, and yes, I definitely want to.

Knock it out. Denise, can I ask you a quick question? Yes, sir. How many years in a row have you been 29?

Zero.

All right. A real 29. Well done.

It's the 33rd anniversary of my 29th birthday. Of my 29th birthday. Oh, my gosh. Happy birthday, Denise. Hang on, Austin will pick up and we'll get you signed up for Financial Peace University as our guest. We just passed 10,000 classes that were taught this year. Wow. I just did a little video thanking all the coordinators before we got on.

The air.

10,000 classes. 10,000 classes were taught this year. It gets away. The numbers are astronomical. They're staggering. I mean, that's a lot of people. We're starting to add up now how much charity has been given by all these people. It's astronomicalwant to go how much of the economy you can affect by doing something like this. That puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, folks, Dave Ramsey here. You know, budgeting doesn't have to be boring. You just need a budgeting app that's made with you in mind, and that's Every dollar. The Every dollar app has helped millions of people work the baby steps and take the stress out of planning and managing their money. Start budgeting with Every dollar for free right now. Just go to ramseysolutions. Com/everydollar and download the app today. That's ramseysolutions. Com/everydollar.