Live We're in the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships, never the fake kind. To my right is Dr. John Deloney, and he'll be co-hosting it up with me for the next couple of hours. Hey, give us a call. The number is 828-825-5225, and we would love to take your calls as it relates to your life, your money, whatever's going on in your world. We want to talk about it, especially if it concerns your finances or your relationships. Like I said, that number's 828-825-5225. We will look forward to talking to you. In the meantime, John, I got to tell you, I'm really, really excited. I see here on my desk that the marriage and money, money and marriage getaway is back.

It's back. You joined us last year. It was a party.

I did. It was amazing. I don't think we've ever done an event like that at Ramsey before. Never. It was the first of its kind for sure.

First time ever. It was so successful that it was a I've never seen anything like it, a 50% buyback, which means half of the audience there bought tickets for next year. We had to invent new VIP tickets because they were all sold out. This fall, October 24th through 26th, join me, Rachel Cruz. Probably Jade. Come on, let me in. You're in. A whole gang of us for a weekend away in Nashville, Tennessee, right here on campus to focus on your marriage. Two and a half days of teaching on communication, sex and intimacy, money. We cover everything.

I was shook, John. When I walked into the auditorium at one point, I don't blush easily, but I was like, This is...

We're into it. Here's the deal. The promise is you won't leave without a question. If The only reason you won't get your question answered is if you don't ask it, right? No holds barred. Lots of Q&A's. You and your spouse walk away with the tools. You need to build a deeper connection and win with your marriage, your money, with your kids, all of it. Platinum tickets are gone. Very few VIP tickets left. After today's announcement, they're going to be gone, too. Here's the deal. This is a great Valentine's present for your significant other. If you're wondering what to get them for Valentine's Day, buy them tickets. Say, We're going to Nashville in October. Everybody will win. That'll be good.

Let me just add this. If you can get the VIP tickets.

Yeah, it's legit.

Because I was part of that VIP event. Let me just say you go to a It's a private place that's secluded that's amazing. All the personalities are there, and it's like drinks and bourbon and- It's good. Wonderful appetite. It's quite the situation.

Last year, we'll do different things, but this year, Some different things, some same things. But we threw a prom, which ended up getting off the rails.

I saw some things.

Got off the rails. I even started blushing, and I don't blush. But we have a musical guest show up. It's just It's just a blast. Go to ramsey solutions. Com/events. Ramsey solutions. Com/events.

Can't wait. All right, let's hit up these phone lines, John. Let's go to Emily, who's in Boston, Massachusetts. What's going on, Emily?

Doing well. Thank you for your work, and thanks for taking my call.

I'm glad you're here. How can we help?

Well, my husband, I knew he had a drinking problem, but I didn't really know the extent of it. Anyway, I found out he had not been paying the mortgage, and he ended up going into a rehab, so he's there. I have to figure out the finances because I had let him be part of the finances. And part of his assignment in the rehab is he had to tell me about any any debts he had. I found out he had about 70,000 in personal loans and about 40,000 in credit card charges that I didn't know about. I can't make minimum payments on those things. He does have a 401k that is like 300,000. Someone told me I should have him ask for a hardship withdrawal to pay off these things.

I'm not ready to go to that yet.

Yeah, please don't do that. Please don't do that.

Anything else that you want to unpack before we dig in?

Yeah. I don't really have much. He's not out of there yet, so I don't really have much communication, so I don't.

How long is the rehabilitation?

It's like a few more weeks.

Like two or six?

Yeah. Okay. I just need to figure out how to make a budget and how to try to manage things. I guess I'll be in charge of finances.

Let me let John jump in because I think the money is going to be secondary to how you're going to cope with him being back from rehab.

Yeah, you still sound scorched earth. You still sound like you got home and your house has burned to the ground and you're looking around. How long has How long have you been gone?

Since the beginning of the year. Okay.

How long, and I'm not asking this in an accusing way. I'm asking this just in a practical way. How long have you been just dear in headlights? Like, everything feels so overwhelming, right?

Yeah. I was able to make the payments on the mortgage and rectify the mortgage. I've stabilized things. Okay, all right.

The one key here is you're going to have to feel this. You're going to have to grieve this. You all are going to have to rebuild your marriage from ash, okay? Everything that was before is going to be different now. You feel that, but it's just important to say it out loud. It's not time for that yet. It's time for you to stand up as tall as you can, get some women in your life that you trust to walk with you. You've got to, like you said, I'm not going to, I just got to figure out a budget. No. You are now trying to save your own life for a season. Okay? I am going to declare that I'm going to make a budget, and I'm going to follow it, and I'm going to find all of these debts, and I'm not going to borrow against our family's future in order to clean up a bunch of nonsense. I'll call these debtors and say, I'll get to you when I get to you. I have no money right now, and we're going to go from there. I want you to hear that I'm standing up as tall as I can, and there is going to be an element of fake it till you make it.

That's okay. That's okay. But never again are you going to put all of your debts. Are you going to put all of your... I don't even know how the mortgage is getting paid, any of that stuff. I'm never going to put that all in one person. I want you to hang on the line. We're going to keep you over because I want to talk through some very tactical things. Jade is going to talk to you about some money, some very tactical money things. When we come back from the break, you're going to be standing 6 inches taller. Some of it, you're going to be faking it. Some of it's going to be for real because we are going to reclaim your life. Then when your husband gets out of rehab, he's going to be different, and so are you. We'll be right back.

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All right, you are listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. This is John Deloney. The last segment, we were talking to a wonderful lady named Emily. She was telling us a little about her situation with a husband who has gone away at rehab for alcoholism, and she is at home trying to make sense of what's going on with the money. Mortgage was behind, but she got that up to date, but has found out that her husband has what looks like over $100,000 racked up in different personal loans and credit card loans and things like that. Emily, did I get it right? Did I leave anything out?

No, that's correct.

John was telling you, by the time this segment is over, we're going to make sure you're standing tall, feeling confident I had a couple of questions to ask. Do you guys have kids?

Yes, four.

Did you say four? Yes. Oh, my goodness. What are their ages?

The oldest is 18 and the littlest is six. Okay.

Are you working outside of the home?

Yes.

What do you do?

I'm a nurse.

Okay. How much income are you bringing in?

About 100,000.

What did your husband bring in?

About the same, 100,000.

Did he lose his job?

No.

Okay. So he'll come back to that same salary?

Yes. Okay.

All right. I'm looking at this and I'm going, Okay, you guys have a great income. I hate to say it like this, but personal issues aside, financially, you guys have the ability to clean this mess up, and I see that in the numbers. It is going to take you getting on a budget like John mentioned before. I think that's something that you can do on your own at this point. Because, John, I want you to chime in here because at what point when you're dealing with a situation like this, when do you decide, okay, for the time being, you don't have access to the money or you have access to whatever you're bringing in. But at what point do you draw a clear line and say, I haven't been able to trust you financially, and so I'm going to have to take this until we decide otherwise. Talk to that.

Anytime somebody's struggling with addiction, somebody's using or somebody's gambling, it's self-preservation. You have to. If I got out of rehab and I'd been gone on a 30-day treatment program and my wife was at home, I would be in favor of establishing a 90 or 120 days where I don't have access to Two things. Doing two things. One, letting my wife reestablish trust in me and me in her, and number two, making sure our house has footing because you're going to come right back to the same temptations, the same life, the same busy four kids, the same chaos. A wife who's making six figures as a nurse, and then I'm making six figures in my job, all that stuff comes rushing back at you. You get 30 days in solitude where you can breathe, you got counselors all day, you got team, you group of people. It's a lot when you get out. I would definitely recommend them building in some, Hey, I'm paying bills for the next three months, four months, five months, six months, and we're going to slowly reintegrate this thing together.

Emily, does that sound like something that the man you know would go along with?

I hope so. I'm not sure.

Let me ask you this. Is your marriage going to survive this? Do you have any interest in still being married to this guy?

Yes. I'd like to give him a chance.

Okay. I think it's really important that you, like I said, sit with a counselor or with a couple of women, and you verbalize out loud, but I want you to create a list of needs and a list of wants moving forward. That way, there's no guessing. It's going to clear as kind. You're going to lay out for me to be invested in rebuilding this marriage from the floor up. Here's what must be true. You can't dream. You can't be violent in the home. We will pay bills together every week. Whatever you need to reestablish trust in your home, and by the way, you're going to have to reestablish trust with Emily. Fair? Yes. Yes. How much of this are you weighing on yourself that you can't believe that you let it get like this?

A lot.

Okay. I want you to let that go.

Yeah. Okay.

We're going to let that go. We learned a lesson, and it's not going to happen again. That's unfair?

Yeah. Okay.

Did we answer your questions? I want to make sure we got you all the help you need before you go.

Yeah. I think it'd be fair to say he would not have access to things. I guess I'll have to contact these different and say I can't pay them. I don't know.

Well, let's talk about that a little bit. On a scale of one to 10, how confident do you feel with managing money or paying bills?

Maybe a three.

Okay. Before we get off the call, I'm going to make sure you get set up with EveryDollars, which is our budgeting app. It's really intuitive. It's very easy to walk through. Your homework from me, John gave some homework. My homework is I want you to download every dollar, and I want you to splurge on the premium version because you can afford it. I want you to start plugging in those numbers tonight. I want you to start filling it in. It's going to have a place for you to list your income and when you get paid. Then from there on, I want you to write out everything that your heart can think of that you might possibly spend money on, the bills that you know about and even things that you hadn't really, that you don't do all the time. But it's like, Well, we might spend money. It's my daughter's birthday coming up or whatever it is. I want you to fill out that budget until the number above gets to zero. You're making a zero-based budget, and that's going to give you a lot of peace and just, honestly, visibility to see where you guys' money is going, because $200,000 is a lot of money to bring in.

Then there's a section where you can list out the debts. Now, you told me that your husband racked up 70,000 in personal loans and 40,000 in credit cards. My guess is there's probably some more debt laying around. I'm guessing, yes? Yeah. Some cars, some other things like that. I want you to go through that. Hey, Austin, will you set her up with customer care? I want to see about coaching. I want to see about Ramsey plus. I want to give her the whole shiboodle because she needs it. She's been going through it, and I want to make sure that she is set up.

That's tough, John. One last thing, Emily. Getting well on the back end of this might require selling your house, and you all move into apartment for a season. It might require selling the cars. It might require selling the Lakehouse or the boat or whatever it's take to get squared up. Do not borrow from your 401(k). You're not there yet. You're not even close to there yet. Be prepared to keep all of these things that your life revolved around, these vacations, these homes, these assets. Hold them very loosely with an open hand because the goal here is a new marriage. The goal here is financial security. The goal here is a new you. You can't hold on to your old life and get something completely new.

That's a very, very good point. That was heavy. That was a lot. Listen, I'm glad that you talked about this, John, because I say it a lot when it comes to money and couples. Here on the Ramsey show, we say all the time, Combine your money. Your money has got to be combined. Everybody's marriage situation is different. Obviously, in a healthy relationship, combining finances should be second nature. For some people, it's not. If it's not, you have to work towards that. But there are really, really real situations that people are encountering where both people in the relationship are not healthy. Because of that, the idea of combining finances with someone who has displayed addictions or financial infidelity. Dishonesty. Yes. It's like, okay. Lack of control. Lack of control. I need people to understand there is those points where you do draw that line and say, Hey, right now in this season, and I love that you gave it a 90 to 120 days deal. Now, her husband was willing to go to rehab. What about somebody who's like, Listen, my spouse is just not there yet?

Then you have to take... She's got four kids. She's got four kids. I'm going to put my money in my own account, and we're not splitting, and I'm going to figure that out. That's just you got to survive.

You got to survive.

It goes back to, we tell people to be gazelle in tents. That's not a way of life long term. That is a right now because your family is at such risk that we want you to sprint. Don't go out to eat, don't do anything joyful, just get out of debt. Very similar. This isn't long term. This isn't going to be good your marriage long term. This is about you surviving. That person keeps taking your money out of your account, and your kids are at risk, you're at risk. I'm going to have my own account, my own money, my own stuff until my partner is safe and is well, and then we can build something together.

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It's just the smarter way to protect yourself. All right, you're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. This is John Deloney. Thanks for hanging out with us. If you want us to take your call, give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225, and we will chop it up with you. Let's go directly to the phone lines where we've got Katherine in Knoxville, Tennessee. What's going on, Katherine?

Hi, I'm doing well. How are you?

We're doing great.

All right. So my question for you guys is, my husband and I recently We moved to Tennessee, and we just had our first baby in October. Nice. And we have some debt. A majority of it is student loans. He owes $58,000 for a student loan. 58? Yes, 58.

You said that very strategically. You all both own, right? Yes.

You all both own. Yes. We both own it because we're married.

There you go.

There you go.

What else you got?

We also have a little over $21,000. I guess it would be considered consumer debt. I hope I'm saying that right. Okay, what is it? Our cars, I owe a little over $5,000 on my car. He owes a little over $6,000 on his... I have a loan with his mother, so there's zero interest in that for about 33 years.

Oh, there's interest.

Oh, there's interest, Tiffany.

There's interest, all right. That's the highest interest loan you can have, Katherine. How much is that loan?

$3,300.

Okay, we paying that off. It might be $3.3 million.

And then $4,000 for the birth of my child.

Okay.

And $2,000 in credit card debt. So I believe that equals right around $21,000 or so.

Okay. I'm with it.

All right. We We have $28,000 in our savings.

Oh, fantastic. Okay, so- Hold on, Jade. Before you go in, can I just say one thing, Katherine? I'm going to turn you over to Jade because she's the expert here. I really want... How long have you and your Have you been married?

We just had our first year anniversary in September. We've been together for five years. Okay.

I'll give you a little bit of a pass until the end of the day, okay? I want you and your husband after I'm going to make sure this phone call, to be highly intentional about using the word ours and we.

Okay.

Not his, mine, hers. This is ours.

It's called a vocab rehab.

I like that. Yes. We have. The language here matters because resentment builds out of the they did this. Okay. When we did this, then we're going to solve it. Cool. But resentment is, He did this to Yes. He took all these student loans out, even though he's got a job and he's making a bunch of money. He took all these loans out, and it makes me scared instead of, No, I married him. I love him. We made a human together. We owe this money. We are going to pay this off. See the difference? Absolutely. Totally. Okay. All right. Same team. One team, one dream. Oh, Todd. There you go. All right. Here we go.

Okay. You have some money in savings, which is great. 28,000. Let's spend it. Let's spend it paying off some of this debt, specifically mama-in-law. We're going to get that off the- Today. Today. Here's what I want you to do today. Then I'm going to tell you what I'd like for you to do. Then I want you to tell me your objections to it, and then I'll smooth it out for you. Number one, we're listing the debts from smallest to largest. That's called a debt snowball. You list them from smallest to largest, and you make minimum payments on everything. But with extra money, you put it towards the smallest debt. In this case, you have lots of extra money lying around called savings. Because the way we teach, the first step in getting your finances together is to just put $1,000 aside. We call that baby step one, and you've got that. Then the next step is to pay off your debt using the debt snowball method, which we're about to do right here. If we keep $1,000 aside, that leaves you with $27,000 that you can knock out this debt. You basically listed it for me, largest to smallest.

I've got it written here, smallest to largest. Let's pay off that credit card that's 2,000. This is what you're doing today. Pay off that credit card that's 2,000, then you're going to come in here and you're going to pay off mom-in-law, which is 3,300. Then after that, you're going to come over and pay that deductible and get it, clear that out, and you're done with baby. Then you can clear out these cars, pay off both cars. That's crazy. How much peace does that give you?

It gives me peace, but I'm not going to lie, I get worried about only having $1,000 with a new baby. I I have a lot of fear when it comes to finances. I grew up very poor, and my husband didn't necessarily grow up the same way, so he doesn't have any anxiety when it comes to finances, and I'm a total worrywart.

Do you know what's scarier, though?

What if something comes up?

And that's what I'm trying to help you with. If something comes up and you have no debt, then nothing's popping, like nothing's coming up. But if something comes up and you have lots of debt, then you're screwed. Because here's the thing. Something comes up. Let's assume the worst because you're like, Oh, we have a baby. What's the worst that could happen? You lose your jobs. $28,000 is not going to go very far when you've got credit cards, a deductible, mom to pay back, two cars that you're paying. That's called stress. But the moment that you pay off that debt, think about how much money is going to be back in your hands because you're not making payments. You're going to stack up $28,000 $2,000, lickety split. And then when the big bad wolf comes to blow your house down, you're going to have no debt and $28,000.

Yeah.

So this is a short term. This is you having that short term freak out just to get your cards in order.

You should feel nervous. It's a thousand bucks. The space between you and calamity is very thin. It's supposed to feel that way. That's the fire that you're run through the rest of this student loan mess with and be done forever so that you're free. Now, I grew up without a lot either. My dad worked really hard and real, real, real hard, and things were really tight. For a reason, I put security in two things: stuff and what I would call a pretend pocket of money. That's what you've done. You got a house that you didn't have growing up. You got a husband with a job that you didn't have You got two cars you didn't have growing up. You've got this magical little pot of money that feels like it's yours. It is not yours. You've already spent it. You spent it on a baby. You spent it on two cars. It's not yours. Just go ahead and give it away. It's fake. Yeah, you're right. Now, what I'm going to tell you is peace on the other side, when you don't owe anybody anything and nobody can take anything from you. That's a peace that those who struggled with less than growing up, they don't understand it until they get there, dude, and it's magic.

Totally. How much do you and your husband make together?

I stay at home with our son, and he brings and he works full-time, and he makes about $55,000 a year.

Okay. Cool. Are you guys living on a budget? Yes.

We just did our budget this month, and we're really trying to buckle down on it. We're not big spenders. We don't do a lot of extras. I think the most where If we are spending, is I tend to food hoard a little bit.

Me too.

Me too. Same team.

I buy more than what we need in groceries. Okay.

Here's the thing. You've got the money to clear out all these little ankle-biter debts. You'll have 3,000 or 4,000, 5,000 or so that you can throw onto the student loan. But where it's really going to require you buckling down and jumping into that mindset that John just talked about is when it comes to the student loan because the student loan is 50. By the time you pay down a little of it, it's going to be 55 and you earn 55.

What degree did he get costing the same- He has his degree in early childhood education, his bachelor's. Is he a teacher?

He doesn't know. He actually works for a zoo.

Okay, here's the deal. He's going to have to get a second and probably a third job making an additional 25 grand a year.

You might need to pick up some work that you can do at home.

That's what I was going to bring up. He also is a licensed tattoo artist. He was working two jobs when we lived back in Connecticut, and now he is looking to get licensed in Tennessee and also work tattooing.

Look, whatever he can do to bring in some money, I always say, do whatever you can, and that includes you, too. He's not the only one that can work extra. You've got some time in your day where or you can pick up some extra cash. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Com/dave.ish, Dave, right now. You are listening to The Ramsey Show. I am Jade Warshaw, your host, joined by Dr. John Deloney, your other host, author of Building a Non-Anxious Life, John. Such a great book, one of my favorites. Hey, if you love listening to The Ramsey Show, do us a favor and consider liking it, subscribing it, and definitely sharing it. Whatever platform you like listening to the show, whether it's YouTube, whether it's on your favorite podcast app, just share it with somebody. When you do that, it helps us in so many ways. It boosts us up in the algorithms, and so a lot of other people are able to see the shows there as well. Do that for us. It's absolutely free, and we would be oh so grateful and oh so appreciative of you for doing that. Like, share, subscribe. That is the ask. In the meantime, let's go to the phone lines. We got Elaina in South Bend, Indiana. What's going on?

Hi. My husband and I, we make about 55 at the end of the year. We're on Baby Step 6, but we're just trying to figure out what we can do to cut expenses or do something in order to pay off our house We just bought it in 2022, and so we're on fire to pay it off, but we have two kids and then another one on the way.

How much is the mortgage? What do you owe?

Mortgage with everything included, interest and everything like that is 12.5. Okay.

What's the payoff?

When do we pay it off? When we're wanting to pay it off.

What do you owe on it? What do you owe on the I'm alone. Sorry.

We owe 142, I want to say.

Cool. What we have found is that when people walk through the baby steps, most people are able to pay off their mortgage within 7-10 years, is what we find. That's if they've walked our steps, they're on that 15-year fixed-rate mortgage, they're going through it. It's safe to assume that that's probably going to be you. In that case, it looks a lot like intentionality, a lot more so than it looks like, Okay, We're getting super intense. Gazelle intense is the phrase we use here. You don't necessarily have to be like that on baby step six. You and your husband really need to sit down and decide, Okay, what are we willing to do here? What are we willing to sacrifice in order to find those extra payments? And what are we shooting for? Are we looking to double it? Are we looking to triple it? Have you guys said what it is that you're looking to do?

Yeah. We wanted to be debt-free before I turned 30. I turned 30 January of 2030. But we got a 30-year mortgage. That's where the funkiness comes on, is that with 55 grand and a $1,200 mortgage.

Hey, why did you get a 30-year? I'm not fined- I'm going to put you on the fire for a minute because you've been walking the steps. We weren't smart.

Yeah, I know. We weren't smart.

We Well, honestly, the reality is we bought a house we absolutely fell in love with.

We knew we wanted a lot of kids. We're going to have three kids under the age of three, and we bought a house that we couldn't afford, so we did a 30.

Listen, Laine Good for you for just going ahead and calling that out because so many people face that, and they act like they had no choice in the matter. I love that you just owned it and said, Hey, we made a choice. It wasn't the best choice, and we did it out of emotion. So many people can relate to that. Now you're in it, so we do need to come up with a plan to get this paid off in the next 6-7 years if you want to do it in the time frame that you said, correct?

Right. What does your husband do for a living?

He's a teacher in a public school. Okay.

That actually makes me happy. Here's why. He can work in the evenings and on Saturdays and Sundays and all summer. It's not going to be fun. Like Jade, we teach people, take your time in baby step six, slowly begin to love your life a little bit. You're not running for your life. I also will say in my private life, in my personal life, I hate with all my guts. I can't breathe when I owe somebody money. It's a problem from my childhood. My wife and I sat down and said, Okay, we can't go gazelle-intense, but we're going to go over the top. What would that mean? We didn't go on vacations, and we didn't buy furniture. We didn't do a lot We drove the same used cars. I remember Dave looking at my truck and being like, Hey, I know what I pay you. It was like, I know, man. I'm getting done with this stuff. It's just a matter of making a plan and saying, Okay, if we want to be done in three years or four years, how much money would we have to make? It's just a math problem. Then one or both of you all has to go earn that money.

I wish it was more complicated than that. It's just not.

Well, just putting it into real numbers, partially real numbers, because I'm not using a mortgage calculator. I'm just off It's the top of my head. If your loan is 142,000 and you split that up, you said you want to have it done by that birthday, that's six years. If you split that up, you've got to be paying at least $24,000 a year on this. Yeah. And so you're making 55. So right off the bat, if nothing changes- I'm not going to make it. We're not going to make it because living on 25,000, listen, I don't know if it's possible with the family you have. I don't think that it is. So to John's point, somebody or both of guys are going to have to figure out a way to bring more money into the household. Have you guys had real conversations about that?

We have, though. One hard thing is that we will have three kids under three at the end of October. Just thinking about me starting a job just to leave it for multiple months to have a newborn again. Then he absolutely Absolutely, absolutely loves his job.

And these are the things, listen, I'm not taking any of that away from you. But what I am saying is you called in here and said, I want to pay off this mortgage in the next 6-7 years. No, yeah. I want to be honest. What I want to lay out for you is you may not be able to do all of that, but what you do get to decide is what you do get to do. You might not get to pay off the mortgage in seven years, but you might get to stay at home with three under three.

Or you may have three kids under three, and you take a neighbor's kid for an extra $500 a month or $8,000 a month, whatever childcare costs these days. I want you to keep in mind, in two years, you're going to have Three kids, five and under. Then the year after that, you're going to have three kids, six and under. It may be that three kids, six and under, and you don't owe anybody any money because you all just bit down on your mouthpiece and went in swinging. Your husband worked. He got done teaching, and they delivered pizzas or delivered Uber. Then on Saturdays and Sunday, he drove, and he missed his kids, but he had a long game in mind.

Or you extend your timeline, and you're like, Listen, we're going to pay this thing off in 10 years. And you don't sacrifice to that extent, because if you choose to go that route, you can, but you really don't need to. I can't stress that enough.

Go ahead. Right. Go ahead.

I was going to say, I just can't stress that enough. You guys have worked hard to get to baby step I don't know what your debt payoff journey was, but here you are. And if you want to go pedal to the metal, you want to go balls to the wall, that's fine. But I don't want you to hear me say that. You have to do that in this phase because you truly don't.

Right now, we're on baby step six, and we're still only spending $250 on groceries.

Listen, I need you all to live a little.

Enjoy your life, too.

Loosen up the purse strings, mama.

Yeah. At least go on a date every once in a while.

You know, your income is on the tougher side for the size that your family is going to be. I'm not going to lie about that. And so you do have to be very meticulous about your budget. But I don't want you to feel like, and I'm not discarding what you said, John, if you guys decide, Hey, we're going to put our heads together and we're going to work for my crazy family.

That's not for everybody.

That's not for everybody. If you guys decide that, I'm surely not mad at you, but I really want to give you permission to go, Okay, we made a mistake with this mortgage. That That wasn't right. Let's at least agree to pay this like a 15 year.

Right. Yeah.

I feel like that's meeting in the middle.

Yeah, that's the goal right now is to pay it off like a 15, but then… Well, the goal was to pay it off like a 15, but then actually pay it off like a five.

Cool. Okay. It's just a math problem.

But now, it's more realistic. Listen.

Yeah, but now I feel like I'm trying to be more realistic and like, okay, maybe we do just need to stick at the 15.

Absolutely. And just be happy with the life that we're- You all are choosing. Loving. You can do what you want to do when it comes to that. Start with the 15 year. Start with paying it like a 15 year. See how it feels. And then if you feel a little better, listen, we'll try to pay it like a 10 year. See how that feels. And then if you feel so inclined, you can push the pedal to the metal a little bit more. But again, it's about being intentional, not necessarily about being intense in baby step six. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am your host, Jade Warshaw, joined by your other host, Dr. John Deloney. We're going to be taking your calls for the next couple of hours, so give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225. We'd be happy to chop it up with you. One of my favorite things about this show is it's collar-driven. People are calling in all the time, John, telling us really their deepest and darkest secrets, because what I always find so interesting is people have a very hard time talking about money with their family, their friends, even their spouses, but they'll call into this show and tell two knuckleheads like us, their deepest, darkest money secrets, the mistakes that they've made with money, and we're here for it.

Probably they feel comfortable talking about that, John, because we've made all the mistakes that you could possibly make with money. We've done it, too. And so it's like you're among friends who have done stupid things and had to pay the cost for it with their money. And around here, we call that stupid tax. If you've ever done something that's just like, Oh, what was I thinking? And now you have to pay the piper, so to speak, we call that stupid tax. We want to hear that from you. Matter of fact, if you have some stupid tax that you would like to share with us, you can always email us. The email is ask@ramsysolutions. Com, and you can put stupid tax in the subject. But of course, we have to share some of ours, right, John?

What's your favorite one?

The list is extensive, and so there's many to choose from.

Off the air, I heard her on the phone with her husband, and they were just like, Well, this one, and this one time, this one time. Rattling them off. It was awesome.

Probably the one that... There's two that stands out. Probably the one is my husband, when I met him, he had a Jeep. What's the... Not Liberty, not Wrangler. Cherokee. Cherokee. Thank you. He had finally paid it off and made the final payment. He was like, Yes, I finally paid off my Jeep. Within weeks, we were at the car dealership to get a brand new Hummer H3 because we were like, yes, now we have a down payment to get loans again. I think about that to this day of like, what were we thinking? We could have entered marriage and had a paid for car, but instead we got a H3 Hummer and paid $435 a month for it.

It wasn't even a cool car. Hey, dude, I got out of college I remember I had $17,500 in student loans, which back then was a million dollars. Now would be a dream, right? I drove an 88 Tercel EZ hatchback. My friends called it the Roller Skate. I looked like Fred Flundstone. It was so little. My body was so folded up in that thing. The week I graduated, I went to a dealership and got the biggest, stupidest Texas compensation truck I could find. It cost more than my student loans. So it's one One stroke of the pen, I doubled my debt load, and I thought I won. I was like, How do you like them apples, America? How do you like them now? I got a truck that I can't afford.

Oh, man.

It was the stupidest. It was so embarrassing.

How long did it take before you were like, I can't, or like, I got to pay this off?

I had it sold within 18 months. I couldn't breathe. It was so expensive. It was my buddy's dad, Randy Fox. He passed away a few years ago. Randy was an accountant, and I remember I drove it over to show him how cool it was, and he just looked at me and goes, This is stupid. He's a math guy, and just the way he looked at it, I was like, Oh, no. What have I done?

Oh, stupid tax. I love it. Okay, in that same realm, I hate to say this, John, but I think we've all done the rooms to go, no payments until the year 2030 or whatever, and you're like, All right. In your mind, in that moment, you're like, That year will never come because it's like 15 years later. You're like, This year can never come.

That's a problem for Future Jade. We get it right now.

We get it right now. I think we bought the ugliest furniture that you could buy. It was all dark brown and it all matched. You know what I mean? It's like you get the bed frame and the foot frame and the matching side tables and the dresser, and it all looks exactly the same, no character. I don't know what we paid for it, but I know that they had said, no payments until you're old and gray. We won. Somehow those payments came due, and I was like, Oh, crap.

I didn't have that stupid text. I had probably another segment called, Stupid marriage, idiot. It was after my second book went number one, and we were having dinner at the house, and my wife said, This is last year. She's like, Hey, we've had a good couple of years. I was like, Yep. Could we get rid of the headboard that you bought off Craigslist and spray-painted 15 years ago? I was like, It works great. She's like, What if we bought real furniture? We got our first bed, and I'm pretty excited about it.

That is so funny. But you did it the right way.

Hey, you know what? We waited 20 years.

I'm such a catch, ladies.

I'm a catch.

Listen, that's better than the stupid tax. If you have stupid tax stories, be sure to let us know. Ask at ramseysolutions. Com. Put stupid tax in the subject. We want to hear about those and talk about them on the show. Let's go to Trevor. He's in Savannah, Georgia. Trevor, you're on the line. Hello.

Excited to talk to you all.

You, too. What's going on?

I got a question. I'll just lay out some facts for you. That way you know on a basis of where I come from, and then I'll shoot the question. I am 25. I have no debt right now. I bought all my toys with cash, paid for all them. I'm not married. I make $80,000 a year. I'm commission-based, so somewhere around there. Anyway, I am looking… My next purchase would be a house. I know that Dave always says, marry the house, not the interest rate. My question is, I know that you all say 20% down, would you be okay or would it be okay to get something with closer to maybe 10% or 12% down? That way I can go ahead and start paying a mortgage on the house. Or should I wait two or three more years or so and save up the whole 20% and then buy five in.

If you can afford it and it's less than 25% or less of your take home pay on a 15-year fixed rate, I'd probably go ahead and do it. Okay. I mean, the range is between 5 and 20 %. If you can get to 20, that's great. I don't know that I would delay it by three years to get there.

Yeah, and it may not take that long. I mean, I'm pretty good at saving. I do have $1,000 emergency fee and then a 3-6 month emergency fund set up. So if I bought and the air condition went out or whatever, I'm covered there. Okay, cool.

So what are you looking at?

That's pretty straightforward. So where I live, I live right around Savannah, somewhere around the 300,000 range.

Okay. And what percentage of your take home is that going to end up being?

It'd probably be about 1,500 a month or so. I make about 45, so that would be right around maybe 2,700, something like that, or 27%, maybe, 30%, something like that.

I'd want to- I'd want to- listen, I'm not trying to split hairs, but try to get it to 25 if you can.

Yeah.

I can save a little bit more. That's fine. 26, 27, I'm not too mad at, but if you know you're upwards of 30, I would hold back because unless you see your income going up to cover that 5% in the foreseeable future, listen, that 5%, you feel it, and you're going to feel it in other areas of your budget, whether it be your spending budget, your fund money, it's going to shake out somewhere down the line, especially because you're in sales and you're on commission. I really want to make sure you meet those parameters. This is The Ramsey Show.

This episode is sponsored by Better Help. Hey, this is Dr. John Deloney, and some people think relationships have to be easy to be right. Sometimes that can be true, but more often, great relationships get that way because both people put in the work to make them incredible. Therapy can be a place to work through the challenges you face in all of your relationships, whether that's with friends, people at work, your significant other, or even how to get along with yourself. And if you're thinking of starting therapy, try Better Help. Therapy isn't just for people who've experienced trauma. It's great for building skills so you can become the best version of yourself. Betterhelp is completely online, so it's flexible enough to fit your schedule. Just fill out a short questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. Find the path forward to making all of your relationships incredible. Visit betterhelp. Com/delonie today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P. Com/delonie.

You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm your host, Jade Warshaw. Your other host is Dr. John Deloney. We are taking your calls all hour long. Honestly, for the next couple of hours, we'll talk about your life, your money, your relationships, whatever it is. You can give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225. We got Tiffany in Chat Town. What's going on, Tiffany from Chattanooga?

Chattanooga, yeah. We do call it Chat Town, though.

I know. I'm glad I got a reaction from you.

I've never heard that in my life. What, John? Everyone in this room is now dumber for… I'm just kidding. Go ahead, go ahead.

Chat Town?

Chat tone.

Chat tone. How's it doing, guys?

We're doing Good.

All right. My question is, now, I've been married. I'm 42. I've been married for 23 years. Nice. My husband and I, we got married really young. My best friend the whole entire world. If he is listening, I am not dogging you.

Oh, gosh. Oh, this is going to be awesome.

The caveat. What's going on?

My question is, we are preparing our youngest to go on and move out. She's about to graduate. She's got a plan. We're working on that. So this is literally our first time being by ourselves. We got married with a kid, so we have never been by ourselves. So I'm trying to figure out. I would like to be financially free so we can have more time and all that, but he is not on the same page with me on what to do with our money. So I'm trying to figure out how to convince him to start your guys's program.

Interesting. Okay, so just making sure this question is not really about the child going off to school. This is about you wanting to live your best life once your kids are out of the house. Is that right?

Yes. Okay.

Yes. So give me a picture of what life looks like now, financially. I mean, are you guys combining the money? Are you on a budget? Tell me more.

Okay. I literally just started listening to you guys. I binge mama at work. Don't tell anybody. Tell everybody. I just started listening. Don't tell my boss. But I just started listening to you guys, and so we really haven't started any of the program whatsoever. My husband owns his own business, so that money is separated, but I have access. We We have access to each of our accounts, both of us, but his money for his business is separated.

What about the money that he pays himself in payroll? Does that go into a combined account or does that stay on his side?

No, it just stays on his side. But I can pull money. We don't separate like that. It's just that money. It's just in a different account.

I would say that you guys probably… It sounds like the way it is. You probably could combine finances for real for real, and it be pretty painless. Because by definition, I don't really feel like you're combined right now, even though it seems like there's a good amount of openness. I'd like for it to be like, there's no veil. You know what I'm saying? It's just one account or one or two accounts that you guys are both on. It's not your account over here and his account over there, but you can creep over there if you want to. So that would probably be the first step is I'd sit down tonight and say, Bob, I love you, and I think that I'd love to start really combining our money. I know that we have access into each other's accounts, but I would love if we just had it in one place and we can see it together. While I'm on this subject, I listen to some crazy folks on the radio and they said that we should get a budget. I'd love to start budgeting with you and just let them know what's on your heart and let them know that you're really excited about this.

More than that, tell them why you're excited about it. I think that's going to be a good introduction into the conversation Because if somebody comes to me, John, and says, I want you to be a bigger part of my life. And financially, I'd love if we could share money together, and I can share mine with you, and you can share yours with me. I'd love if we could sit down and plan our month together and all the fun things that we want to do with money and what we want to accomplish. For me, that's a love language. That's a compliment. Now, I don't know your husband. I called him Bob. What's his name?

His name is nick.

Okay. I don't know what gets Nick's wheels turning, but put it in a way that is going to be appealing to him as well.

I'm going to overly gender this. Everybody be nice to me on the internet. I hear Where often a wife, a woman saying, I would love to be a part of your life, coming at it from the joy angle. How can we do more of this thing called marriage together? I often hear men respond in that way to, I've already got this figured out. I'm fine. They want to be lone wolves. That's right. Where I've seen women be successful, wives be successful, Tiffany, is saying, Hey, our youngest is leaving the house. I want to go spend a half day together and dream about what could be. When he says, Well, I've been really busy, the next answer is, Because I'm scared to death to continue living like we are right now. That has a way of stopping people in their tracks because no man, no husband, worth one ounce of salt wants his wife scared. That's a good point.

In her own home.

There's something about saying, I feel out of control I feel like we don't know where we're going. I feel like we're going to wake up in 10 years and we're going to be in this exact spot, and I don't want that. Will you join me?

Yeah, that's because I laid out everything already. I have a whiteboard. I have all of our amounts out of what we owe and everything like that. And then just the other day, this was when it hit me that he was just not on the same page. He said, I want to sell the trailer, and when I sell the trailer, I want to put it into some stock. I thought we were paying bills.

So let me ask you.

Yeah.

Foundationally, who changed? Did you change or have you always... Did you guys start out on a path together that is like, We believe in stocks, and we believe in debt, and we believe in... Or have you always been like, I don't know how I feel about this, and just not talked about it? I do want to know a little bit more of that because there is something in a relationship where it's like, Wait a minute. I thought we were doing When you're putting this together. And then one person truly up and changes and doesn't want to be.

I don't think either one of us changed. I think at this point, like I said, we got married really young, and we had financial struggle our whole entire life. This is the first time that I felt, though, yes, I have debt, and I know you will disagree, but this is the first time I felt like we could actually make a step forward in our financial financial freedom, where before we were always just drowning. Just trying to stay. Yeah, just trying to survive.

Tiffany, here's what you've had. You've had a husband that's been ashamed to look his wife in the eyes for most of your marriage because he's a small business owner that hasn't been able to create the world that he wanted to create. He knew one play. He had one tool in his toolkit, and that was hit the gas even harder. Don't take your foot off. You all have scratched and clawed, and he's got there, and now he's going to try to catch it up by putting it all on red seven, which is playing stocks. Fair?

Yes.

This is when you sit down and say, I'm scared to death.

Right.

Then let's look at… You said you have it all whiteboarded out. Tell me about what's on the whiteboard. I want to know the numbers real quick. I want to know… Give me in a nutshell how much debt you have to pay off. You don't have to list it all out because we don't have a ton of time, but I want to know what you guys earn.

Okay. We bring in about 100,000. About 70,000 is mine, and then the rest is his being a small business owner. It's different, but that's about it. Then we owe about $38,000 in debt, minus the mortgage, so it does not include the mortgage.

When you guys sell this trailer, what do you think it'll bring, realistically? Or is that 38k the trailer?

No, it's not the trailer. We own the trailer. The trailer will probably bring in, I think, maybe 5,000.

Okay. Basically, what you're trying to get him to see is that that money could be better spent. You guys really aren't far away from freedom. You sell that trailer, you got $33,000 to pay off with $100,000 income. You can pay that off liggity split. Save yourselves up 3-6 months of expenses, and you truly are home free. It's not like you guys have this seven-year path in front of you. This can get cleaned up in a year or less.

Especially if he goes and makes some more money.

Exactly. Have a sit down, talk with him, talk about how you feel. Change this thing. This is The Ramsey Show. All right, you're listening to The Ramsey Show. John Ron Deloney, to my right. I have an article on my desk that is honestly pretty crazy. It was an email before it was sitting here on the desk, and I looked at the email earlier today, and it said, Garbage deals. Dealership puts customers in cars with $3,000 a month car payments. That's wiggedy, wiggedy, wiggedy, whack. That's crazy. That's nuts. Okay, it says, A New York Fed survey published earlier this week indicated that in the fourth quarter of 2023, auto loan delinquencies reached levels not seen since right after the Great Recession more than a decade ago. We're hitting historical numbers here. It says, Delinquencies frequency transaction rates have pushed past pre-pandemic levels.

We remember this, though. We remember during the pandemic, people were buying used cars on 72 month notes. I have a buddy, and if you ask him, he's one of my oldest friends. What do you do for a living? He says, I make bad car loans. Even he said, Dude, these loans people are asking for are absolute madness.

I'm really shocked.

They're coming home to roost now, but then it's getting worse. It's getting worse, man.

Wow. It says, An Edmund report from last year showed the percentage of drivers with plus $1,000 monthly payments jumped to an all-time high. The The reason is that the average amount financed for a new vehicle is around $40,000. Folks are putting $40,000 cars. That's the average.

Hold on, 17% of Americans?

Yeah. That's crazy.

Have a $1,000 monthly car payment?

Yeah. Listen, John. Look, John, a while back, we- That's insane.

And that's for one car. $1,000.

That's just one car. Most households are a two car household. Okay, that is groceries. It's a lot.

And eating out. Or a car that at the most, at the most, you drive for what? Two hours? Maybe. And it sits in your driveway or your garage or your parking lot where you work.

The parking garage. Folks can't even see it because it's dark in there.

And that's a thousand dollars. I should have read this more closely before I looked at this.

Yeah, it's nuts.

So he says- This episode is sponsored by Preparation 8 because I got the hemroids, James. $1,000.

All right, it gets worse. It goes down. Listen, he says, This leads us to two posts that were made by a certain Instagram handle. It says, They shared what appeared to be an auto dealer, sharing several images online of new customers financing vehicles with payments that are as much as monthly mortgage payments. In other words, these people are in this Instagram post, and they're excited about the fact God came through when I got me my deal.

It's always that, too. Like, God heard my prayer.

Yeah, it was a blessing.

Now I have a 2005 $550 monthly payment.

It says, one person purchased a 2023. It's on the screen. One person purchased a 2023 Tahoe with a $2,550 a month payment on an 84 month term.

That's almost a decade. That's a depreciating asset. It will be...

Oh, my gosh. Another person, that was just one guy, another person bought a 2023 Sierra. Oh, my gosh.

$2,500 Denali.

With a $3,000 a month payment, and he was locked in to a 96 month... Look, there's the prayer hands. Why did they got to put... Listen, listen. And look me in my eye. God didn't have nothing to do with that. You did that. That is not a blessing.

Hey, can we just say, Tahoe? I'd love to have Tahoe. A brand new Sierra Denali. I love that car. I can't imagine signing up for 96 month term Here's the thing, John. I'm a depreciating asset.

I can't even get into the people that would sign for this, like the guys in the photos or whoever. Their level of financial literacy is clearly very Very, very low. And they need shows like The Ramsey Show. But whoever sold them this, I have questions about your integrity and who you are as a person. And you need King Coleman because you You're not doing work that matters. You're doing work that causes pain. I mean, this is horrible. Just because you can get something doesn't mean you should get it. That's really the lesson here. Just because you can get it doesn't mean it's good, doesn't mean it was a blessing. It makes me think of that verse, and all you're getting, get understanding and get wisdom. This is not wise. And just going out to get things because you can get it, because you can purchase. And on the other side, just making the sale because you can make it and because they're willing to sign. Each of those, there's responsibility on both sides of that scale. The consumer has a responsibility, and the person selling on the other end has a responsibility to society to do better.

To society. It's a greater good $3,000 a month.

Let's do some math. The guy who's doing $3,000 a month on a 96-year term, let's do a little bit of calculation here and see what that equivalates to over time. If he invested that money... I'm sick. I'm sick. It's $400,000. If he invested that money over the same term instead of paying it $400,000. He'd be $400,000? $400,000.

He's going to be sitting on a truck that's worth about 20 to 25% of what he bought it for in 96 months versus the other side of that. Yeah.

If for eight years, and here's what I did for people checking my math, I did 0% start. He has no money to start. I did that he's investing it for eight years at an 8% return. 8% is fine, whatever. It's not that great. Compounding monthly, so he's paying $3,000 in a month. Yeah, $400,000 in that range. That's what he's giving up to be able to post on Instagram and say, Look at the car I got. I got my Sierra 2500 Denali.

That's crazy. Congratulations, man. You just tied a boat anchor around your leg and you just jumped off the bridge, man.

It's just going down because we know new cars, they take that first hit. They lose 40-60% of their value in those first three to four years is critical. They lose it so quickly. Instead of that, he's... But he's got his car, though.

I'm telling you, man, the $1,000 trip me out. These make me sick to my stomach. Yeah, you can't.

Here's what people said. Let's hear what other people said on Twitter. This is what people responded. They said, $288,000 for a truck that will depreciate in a one-fifth to one-fifth of that long before it's paid off. Yeah, absolutely. I don't know where he got the $288. I don't know where he got that dollar amount from. It's going to be more than that. This guy said, Dude could be almost a third of the way through a 30-year mortgage on an expensive house when he pays off his truck. It is a mortgage. $400,000 is what he's sacrificing.

Here's the part that's making me sick to my stomach is people watch TV, and they watch TikTok, or they watch Instagram, and they They have this vision, and maybe they know one guy at their church, or one guy at their office, or two guys at their office, and they know that that person's rich, whatever rich means, and that that person who's rich has car X, Y, or Z. What they don't know is behind closed doors, the average millionaire, the number one car driven by millionaires, is a Toyota. It's a Toyota. Wow. This is how wealth transfer doesn't happen or does happen. Is somebody will end up taking this money, and they're a millionaire, and they're going to buy a used Tundra. They're going to buy a used Camry, a used Cadillac, and they're going to write a check for it. Then they're going to invest $3,000 a month and make 400 grand. On the other side, someone's going to say, I got that same car, yet they're going to bury themselves. They're going to bury their financial future and the financial future of those who love them and those who come after them with this type of nonsense.

And this is why we tell you guys, like and share the show. It's financial literacy at its finest. People need it. They don't know.

This is family tree stuff right here.

They don't know. This is ruining his family tree. He doesn't even know it. He thinks he's gotten a good deal. He's so excited. He's sharing it on social media, and we see that people need to know this information, like and share the show so that people can get what we're teaching, which is knowledge. And we all know that knowledge is power.

Yo, yo, Dr. John Deloney here with some big news. Money and Marriage Getaway is back. October 24th through 26th, join Rachel Cruz and me for a weekend in Nashville, Tennessee, to focus on your marriage. You're going to get two and a half days of teaching, take part in a bunch of live Q&A's, and get the tools you need to win with money and intimacy together. Tickets start at $799, and you can pick up the limited VIP tickets left and get all the perks, including meet and greets with me and Rachel. Go to ramseysolutions. Com/ events.

You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. This is Dr. John Deloney, and we are going to give you real talk about your life and your money and your relationships. So give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225. Just be prepared because we're going to keep it real. Let's go to Jeanie, who's in White Plains, New York. What's going on, Jeanie?

Hi, John. Hi, Jade. I have a very, very, very big, big problem. I'm 58 Eight-year-old single mom of three grown boys. I had a trusted friend watching my money, and we lost it all, 400,000 in a brokerage firm, and he went into my retirement fund It's over 600,000 that I lost. Oh, no. Obviously, I'm devastated. But thank you, Dr. John, that I've been listening to you for a long time. I've been trying my best. I'm in trauma therapy and I'm trying my best. I'm a I make around $80,000 a year. I took a second job, and I'm bringing in an extra $4,000 a month. I own a home that I have $400,000 in equity, and I'm just not sure what the next step is for investing. Should I sell the house? Because I always led my life correctly, no credit card debt. I paid for my children's college, and now this is where I'm stuck.

All right. Go ahead. Jeannie, I hate this for you. You trusted a close friend, huh?

Yes.

Was that friend? One of my college roommates is my smart investor pro, manages my money. I'm in the same boat. I'm going to call him right after the show. Just kidding. I know he's doing great. But did your friend make stupid bets, or was your friend in charge of a mutual fund that just went belly up?

I think he was trying to make a lot of money, and he was day trading, basically day trading. He went through hundreds of thousands of dollars day trading, and then he lost all that. He didn't want to tell me. He was giving me a fake statement.

So he's a criminal? Yeah. Your friend is a criminal. That's fraud.

He is. We've gone to the white plant with violent charges. But then he went outside of the brokerage firm to my retirement account, and now I'm having all these tax implications.

Well, he robbed you. He stole from you. I know. We're going to deal with that on a separate issue, okay? Here's the big one. Have you forgiven Jeannie yet? Because until you do that, you're not going anywhere. You're going to sit right in the middle of this. You have to.

I think I will be able to, but not yet. How fresh is this? December 18th.

You're going to have to… Okay, let's just cut right to it, be real honest. How How much of this do you know in your gut, things have been shady for a while, or were you just caught flat off guard? Caught flat off guard. Okay. Then you got to forgive yourself. Listen, in our culture, we have a process for when a friend stabs us in the back. We don't have a good psychology for when a friend stabs us right in the face. That's what happened to you. They looked you in the eye. They didn't do anything conniving behind your back. He scared you down and you lost everything.

When he went into my retirement fund, he had paper checks, hard copy checks, cut and took it out of my mailbox.

Yeah, he stole.

Obviously, I would never take out.

He's a criminal. He's Crook, listen, you have to set that down. Here's why. Your emotional reactivity is going to color what you do next.

Okay.

You have to go into this next season as clear-eyed as you can What does that mean? Setting down the rage, setting down the anger, setting down your own self-hatred, setting all that crap down so that you can make a true plan moving forward.

I will listen to you.

Is that fair?

Even today, just trying to pump gas. I'm shaking because I feel like I'm putting diesel in because I can't even make the decision on which gas.

That's right. Because you have lost the foundation with which you walk on, which is trust in Jeannie. You got to let yourself know I got robbed. Not by your hand, but in your lap. This is not your fault. Yes. Most people, most of the time, have a little gut feeling that their buddy's shady. Not you. You trusted this, too. I did. And he stole from you.

He was making fake statements, but he was handing them to me.

Hey, you got to set it down because here's why. None of that, that will come up in court. Hopefully, this idiot goes to jail. But Any time you have to divert into, and then he did this, and you did this, all you're doing is taking energy away from the current moment moving forward and dragging it into the back. Okay. Let's don't go into the back seat anymore. We're done back there. We have to make a plan moving forward. Fair?

Yes, it's fair. I will listen to you.

Awesome.

Let's talk about the financial angle of this. You're living in a paid-for home. It's worth $400,000. Tell me what other assets you have.

It's not paid for. It's worth $600,000, and I have $200,000 left on the mortgage.

Okay. Okay, so you got $400,000 in equity. Tell me what other money you have laying around.

I didn't have any other money, not even an emergency fund, but I've built up an emergency fund of $8,000 since December 18th.

Okay.

You're getting after it, aren't you? Yeah.

Okay.

I want you to- I work in a group home all night long. I work all night now.

I want you to keep that intensity. I want you to build up six months of expenses, whatever that is, basic expenses, whatever it takes, if something were to happen for you to keep things running in your household. You told me you're taking some overtime. How much are you bringing home every month?

Around 7,000.

Okay. How much of that is margin? How much of it is extra? After you pay your bills, you get groceries.

Well, to be honest, maybe it's more because right now the margin is 5,000.

Okay, so you got 5,000 of margin. That's good. I do. First things first is you're building up this emergency fund. Then after that, of all the money that you're bringing home, I want you to start investing 15% of it. We're walking old-school baby steps here. I want you investing 15% into your 401(k) Basics. All right? Okay. Then after that, we can start looking at while you're doing that, we can start looking at making extra mortgage payments because I want this $200,000 paid off. I want your home paid off by the time in the next 10 years. I want it done. I want you to go into retirement at 65 with a paid-for house, and you've been investing. Then at 68, if you decide to retire, you will have been investing at least $5,000 a month for the last 10 years. Fair enough? Okay.

Okay, so let's do- I was thinking of selling the house and using that to build more money.

No, I want you to be- I don't think you need to do that yet. I want you to be 65 with a paid-for house that no one can ever take from you.

Because here's the thing. If If you invest, I'm putting this in my... I love a compound interest calculator. If you start with zero, and I'm just putting this in here. If you start with zero dollars and you invest for 10 years, so from the time you're 58 to the time you're 68, and you get some great rate of return funds. Maybe you're in a 10% annualized rate of return, and you're doing this every monthly, $5,000 a month. If I calculate that, that's showing me that you're going to have a million dollars.

Really?

Yes.

Okay.

You've got time. Like John said, the emotions are high right now, but our emotions aren't high. This didn't happen to us. We can look at the numbers, and we're looking at them clear and focused. This is just showing you investing over the course of the next 10 years, $400,000 of income, and the rest of it is growth.

I can do that. Yeah, you can.

You can do that. You're going to do more because you're working like a wild woman right now.

I am because I can't be home. If I am home, all I just do is cry. But if I'm at work, I'm okay.

Okay, but hold on. Don't work yourself into a grave as punishment for what you think you did wrong. Okay. You got hit in the mouth by somebody who said, I love you. Yeah. You got to take it advantage of. You did not do something wrong. You're going to have a season. You're going to have a decade when you thought you'd be landing the plane. You ain't landing the plane, honey. You're going to be working hard. Yes. But we're going to be working for something not to punish ourselves.

Okay, that makes sense. I'm working for something not to punish.

Okay. We're working so that at 70, you're going to be one of those rad New York ladies with huge glasses walking around telling guys like me to get off the sidewalk with our hacky-sacks. That's what you're working for, right? You don't need to beat yourself up. You didn't do anything wrong. You got robbed, man. And now we're going to go make it moving forward. Hang on the line. We're going to hook you up with Financial Peace University. We want to watch all the courses, and we're going to hook you up with a session with a financial coach to give you some peace of mind moving forward.

This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm your host, Jade Warshaw. I am joined by your other host, Dr. John Deloney. He's here with me, and we're taking your calls for the next hour. You can give us a call. The number is 828-825-5225, and we will do our best to give you our best advice as it relates to your life, your money, and your situation. So give us a call. Let's head over to the phone lines where I see Mike from Naples, Florida. What's going on, Mike?

How are you doing, guys?

We're doing good. How about you?

Doing good. I'm actually 24. I graduated College with my master's. I have no student loans, no debt. I have $2,000 in my savings and $2,000 in my raw car IRA. But I made a stupid decision, and I have a car loan for about $32,000, and I make around $48,000. A year.

When did you get the car?

I got it in November. I got it brand new. And after listening to you guys for about a month, I feel really stupid. What's the payment? And I want that thing gone right away.

What's the payment, Mike? Hit us.

570 a month.

Oh, Lord. Wow. Got a little bit of the diarrheas. How did you find us, Mike?

How did I find us? Find you guys?

Yeah.

My parents love listening to you guys. My parents actually swear by you guys, and I thought having no debt or nothing, I'd be fine with the car payment. But with the rent and now the car payment, I just want it all done.

I love it. They swear by us, and you swear at us. Right. But we're with you, brother Mike. We got you.

So what's the car worth? If you look to sell it privately, what would you get for it?

I was I'm looking, since it was so brand new. It actually didn't give me a value on Kelly Blue Book, but I could probably get around, I'd say around 32, 33.

Okay. So you think you could sell it for what you owe on it?

Yeah. But the thing is, I want to get another car just used, and I don't know how much I'm going to put towards that.

All of it? A hundred %? Don't buy another car without cash, brother.

Yeah.

Okay. Hold on.

Yeah, but you're going to end up in the same spot.

No, I don't want to buy another car and go totally in debt. I want to buy a cash, but I want to know- But you want more than $2,000 worth of car? No, I'm fine with what can I get for $2,000?

That's something that's embarrassing, that no one would want to date, and that we will get you from A to Z.

Well, I think you can get more than a $2,000 car. Let's look at it. Let's see. It's February. We're midway through February. Let's say that you decide you're going to put this car up for sale. It's going to take a while for it to sell. So let's pretend you got four weeks in front of you. How much How many can you scrape up in the next four weeks?

I can scrape up a good amount. I'm actually getting a bonus for work, an extra $500 on a paycheck.

Okay. And you live at home, right?

I'm renting currently.

Oh, you're renting. Okay. So how much could you scrape up? Could you scrape up 2,000 bucks?

Yeah, I can definitely scrape up 2,000 bucks within the four weeks.

Can you scrape up $3,000?

Sell that guitar.

You don't even play anymore.

I'm going to keep going higher. Can we scrape up four?

I was looking to try and scrape up another 2,000 or 3,000, pushing to four.

That's what I would do.

And then buying a car like that.

There you go. That's exactly what you do. Keep $1,000 saved. Don't spend your emergency fund. But take that. You've got 2k saved, keep one aside, and then take that one and put it with the three or four that you can scrape up and buy yourself a $4,000 or $5,000 car. Sell this one and you're out of it. And then scrape up another four or $5,000, and in a couple of months, sell the used car you just bought and get yourself a $10,000 car because it's not going to lose any more value.

Yeah. Now, do I take the hit and sell it quicker and take a hit on it, or do I wait a a while. On what? To sell it. On the car. You sell it for less.

No, you shouldn't have to take a hit. I mean, it's fairly… You've only had it three months. I put it on the market as soon as you can. Like I I said, I wouldn't sell it back to the dealer. I would do private sale because if you take it to the dealer, they're going to take you for a ride.

Yeah, I don't want to do that.

Yeah, sell it private sale, and then you'll get what you paid for it. Like you said, maybe you'll get a thousand bucks more. But I would definitely do that.

And by the way, you're going to get desperate, and you're going to go to a talk to a dealer, even though Jade said not to, and they're going to convince you to roll equity into something else. Please don't do that because if you do that, Just email us because you'll be calling us back in a few months wanting to shoot the other foot.

No, I definitely don't want to do that. I'm about to go outside and take pictures of it unless they're right now.

There you go, man.

That's what we're doing. You're getting off the call, you're listing that. At the end of the month, you're buying yourself a $5,000 car. Then in a couple of months, like I said, you're going to scrape up that same $4,000 or $5,000, put it with your used vehicle, trade it in, and trade up. That's how this thing works. I talked about this a couple of weekends ago, John, because people hear us on the show all the time say, Oh, just buy a car in cash. There's a reality there of if you've never done that before, it feels really intimidating. Because you're coming from a world where you're used to going to the dealership and buying a $25,000 car, a $30,000 car, $35,000 car, when people hear us say, Oh, from now on, buy cars in cash, they're thinking that we're just suggesting that you just hop on down to the dealer and you've got $30,000 cash in your pocket and you just fork it over. For some people, that's the reality, but for most of us, that doesn't happen until a couple of steps up the ladder. You know what I'm saying? What it really looks like is exactly what we saw in this call.

It looks like you starting out with a car that you're probably a little bit embarrassed about. It's that $5,000 beater. The thing about when you buy and people get all nervous and up in arms about used cars, but I'm like, Guys, all cars require maintenance. All right? Do your research. Make sure you're getting one that hasn't been in a thousand wrecks. They tell you everything about the car nowadays. Do your research, get your car, and just understand when you buy a beater like that, it's already taken the huge depreciation hit. It's already gone down like a rock. If you're only planning to hold on to it for a little while. When you go to sell it again and add money with it to trade up, it's going to retain most of its value. It's not going to completely be worth zero. You walk this thing, it's like a ladder, and you go run by run. You start with a $10,000 car and you add $2,000 to it or $3,000, and you go little by little. Maybe one time you're able to add $5,000 to it. But when you don't have a car payment, it makes it a lot easier to save up that money because most people's car payments are $650 a month, which means in two months, you could have $1,300.

Wow. So you see how quickly this can happen. In six months, that's $8,000 or more that you can add. That's fast, guys. That's how this thing works. And you do it little by little. And before you know it, you do have a $30,000 car that you paid for in cash. That's how this thing works, and that's how you do it.

I'm in.

John ain't got nothing to say. He's like, Yeah, Jade, that's how you do it. Clap it up. Hands in the middle on three. Cash cars on three. One, two, three. Cash cars. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, guys, are you ready for The Secret to help reach those money goals that you've been dreaming about. It's simple. You got to get on a budget. With our budgeting app, EveryDollar, you'll get intentional with your money and build the habits that will make those dreams a reality. And we'll be with you every step of the way. From your first budget to that retirement home on the beach, download every dollar for free on the App Store or Google Play. Remember, today, download every dollar for free on the App Store or Google Play today. This is the Ramsey I'm your host, Jade Warshaw. Your other host today is Dr. John Deloney, host of the amazing YouTube show, Dr. John Deloney Show. Let me say it right, John. Jeez. Oh, my goodness. So if you haven't checked out his YouTube show, be sure to check it out because it's going off. Let's talk about this, a Ramsey Show Question of the Day.

Your Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by Neighborly, your hub for home services. Window Genie is a neighborly brand that does more than just windows. This time of year, they also take care of clogged gutters, which can damage your roof, windows, eaves, and more. Find a window, genie location near you at neighborly. Com/ramsey.

All right, today's question comes from Stephanie in Arizona. Stephanie writes, My husband recently admitted to me that he has a gambling addiction. He has $300,000 in debt, has been stealing from our savings accounts, cleared out his 401, has not been paying the bills, etc. How do we even begin cleaning up this mess? Oh, man.

Wow. We just had a call like that a couple of hours back. Yeah, we did.

All right, so I'm going to really bullet point this and then hop in Jade. We can get to the money part of it. I think it's important. There's two sides of this. Number one is the trauma to your marriage. The marriage, as you knew it, is over. The person you knew has revealed themselves. Trying to, quote, unquote, get back to the way things were, that's a fool's errand. If you stay married and you choose to work through this financial infidelity, then we're going to build a new marriage. That's number one. You're going to feel like you've been on a boat all day, and then you get back on dry land and everything feels wobbly and off. That's what it's going to feel like because everything that you have... Every way you've lived is different now. Because the person who was your ride or die, who stood before your friends and family and God and said, I do forever, stole everything from you and has dug a hole for the family. It's going to be pretty significant. That's number one. Number two, and by the way, to deal with that, I would get a couple of friends, I would get a counselor, I would get a journal that I write in every day.

You're going to feel rage, you're going to feel weepy, you're going to feel anger, you're going to feel frustrated. Write that crap down and get out of your body. Number two is your four walls. You have to make sure your bills are paid and that you have a home, that you have shelter, you got food, you got transportation. You're going to have to take care of Have the basics. You're going to have all debtors and credit card people calling you. The first thing you get is make sure you got a house, make sure you got food, make sure your kids are safe, okay? Make sure you can get to work and back. Paying the bills, that means you're going to have to go in and see who does the water, who does the electric, where's our rent or our mortgage, and dig into all those and make a plan and start paying those things. If you can't, that's a whole other conversation, call us on that one. The third one is, hopefully your husband is in rehab of some sort, some Gamblers Anonymous, some 30-day, 60-day, 90-day inpatient treatment. This is a big 300 grand in debt plus stealing from your future, wipe us for one.

This is a bad problem, and he needs to go get professional help. When he gets out, then you all are going to begin to create something new. But as we mentioned earlier, 90 days, 120 days, you are keeping the money in your account. He doesn't have access to the money, doesn't have access to the bills. But I thought we were built. Nope. He's got to rebuild trust from Lego One, Square One. We're going to create a world where Stephanie is in charge of the money for a while until there's some healing that's happened. There's a new marriage being built, and Stephanie, you begin to regain trust. This is going to take years and years to heal from. That was a lot. I just threw it all out there.

No, I I support that message. I'm not going to add anything else to it because I think that's right on, John. It's dark, man. It is dark. That's tough. That is so, so, so tough. I'm sorry that you're going through that, Stephanie, but I think John gave you a great pathway to move forward, and it's not going to be easy, but at least you know the steps to take. After that, let's go to the phone lines. Listen, I got a segue right out of it because there's no- I feel like we need to sing a song together or something. There's no clean. Kumbaya.

All right, let's go to Yeah, let's go to- Reno.

Nevada. Cody, you're up next. What's going on, buddy?

Hey, how are you guys doing?

Doing good. How can we help?

Good. Right now, I'm in a pickle of deciding if me and my wife should continue staying and renting in our apartment or if we should start trying to look towards buying a home right now.

Okay. Tell us more.

Yeah. So right now between me and her, we make about 120,000 a year plus maybe 10,000 a year in bonuses. Our rent right now is 1,250 a month. And each month that we're renting, we're able to put 3,000 in our savings. We've currently got 4,000 saved right now, and we take home about 7,500 a month after all of our taxes and stuff.

Okay. So you're trying to decide, do we buy, do we rent? What do we do here? So you're taking home 7,500 a month in income. You've got 41,000 saved, and you've got your rent at a level to where you're still able to sock away $3,000 in savings. Yes. Did I get that? Mm-hmm. That's good. That's great. So what's keeping you? Do you have any other debt? Tell me, do you have debt?

So the only debt we have is 20,000 in student loans. And she's a speech pathologist, where She's a speech pathologist where she's working at a low-income school that is paying off part of her loans after she's been working there for five years.

Okay. Paying off part of her student loans?

I think it's about 10,000 to 15,000 of it is what they'll pay off, and she owes about 20.

Okay. Is it the school doing it or is it the government doing it?

I'm not 100% sure if it's the school or if it's the county that we're in that's offering that because she's working at a lower-income school.

Here's the one. I want to make sure you write down the math on this. If she has a service orientation towards low-income, awesome. That's fantastic, and I'll support that until the end of time. It's going to come at a cost to your family, and that cost is absolutely worth it sometimes if that's what your mission is. But if she's making $40,000 at School X, and they promise to pay off $10,000 of her loans, but she can go work private and make $75,000, this is not a deal for your family.

Thank you, John.

Okay? I want you all to sit down and do the math. It might be, which is almost often the case, if you chain yourself With the student loans, you are forcing yourself to put your mission second and honor the bank's commitment first. We hear it all the time from people who want to do ministry. They spend six figures on theology school or whatever. Cool. You got to go get a job. Then after you pay off your debts, then you can go do your ministry. Same with mental health professionals, similar to speech pathologist who want to work in a low-income area. The mission's amazing. It's beautiful. It's essential. If you can't afford it, you can't afford it.

How many years in is she?

She's on her second right now. Okay.

I'm with John 100% on that.

I think it's also a personal preference as well, where she wouldn't want to go into the private sector and likes to- I got that.

She might have to do something she doesn't prefer for 18 months or 24 months so that her whole family can be safe.

If I'm her, when I'm going to go to that school, I'm going to say, Listen, can you just reimburse me? Because I'd like to pay this off. I don't want this hanging around my neck. If I keep record of all my payments, will you reimburse me after the five years so that I can just go ahead and pay this off? That's the deal that I would make. Because there's no sense in you having to make payments or having to have this around your neck. You guys can afford to pay it off today. That's what I would say to them. If for some reason they're like, No, or that's weird, that's It's not a deal that I want to do because it's either 15,000 or it's not. It either is or it isn't. Whether they write you a check, it's the same check that they're cutting. You having to keep it around, should it matter? It's who's making the payment or not. Does that make sense? Although sometimes, sometimes logic goes out the window.

When you get a mission.

Here's the other thing.

If people are going to give me all grief, I don't care. If you can afford it, pay it They have a special program that if you want to keep debt strapped around your neck or that's all you can do to hang on so you can keep working at this school and taking care of those kids. Cool. That program is not for us because we got the money. We're just going to pay it off, and we're going to move on with our life. I like Jade. If they'll write you a reimbursement check, that'd be amazing. Yeah. But yeah, get rid of the debt either way.

By the way, when you buy this house, when the time comes, make sure you've got 3-6 months saved first, and then you're buying it on a 15-year fixed rate mortgage where the payment's no more than 25% of your take home pay. That's the deal.

Buying or selling a home is one of the biggest deals you'll ever make, and that comes with a ton of pressure. But you can close on your home with confidence and keep on top of your financial goals. You just need a roadmap showing you the right way, which is exactly why I wrote my new book, Real Estate, the Ramsey Way, covers everything I've been teaching people about buying, selling, and investing in real estate for over 30 years. To get your copy, visit ramseysolutions. Com/store.

You are listening to The Ramsey Show, and I'm so glad that you're here. I'm Jade Warshaw. This is Dr. John Deloney to my right, or if you're listening, the other voice that you hear is Dr. John Deloney's. I want to tell you guys about a brand new event that we're so excited for. It's coming up here in the spring. It is a total money makeover weekend event. It's a whole weekend, May 10th and 11th, and it's here in Nashville, Music City. We have a really cool event venue. We call it The Wreck. It's up on our property on the hill. When I say our property, I'm talking like I've owned the place.

It's D Money's property.

Yeah, The Big Eagle. It's his property, but it's on property. It's right up the hill, and it's an amazing state-of-the-art theater. I'm not going to call it a theater.

What would you call it? It's a 2,500-seat theater, but it's a masterpiece. It's really cool.

It's awesome. We're doing the total money makeover a weekend there. It's a three-day event. You can go to ramsey solutions. Com/events to look at tickets. But man, it's everything that you need. If you've been listening to this show, whether you've been listening for 10 years or 10 minutes, it is for you because you hear us all the time walk through the baby steps. We're always talking about, Oh, and baby step one, do this, and all the way up to Baby Step Seven. And it really is that. We're going to go through all of those Baby Steps. There's something there for everybody, no matter where you are in your journey. This is going to be for you. It's going to be that rally to keep going forward. You're going to be around like-minded people. You're going to leave feeling so good, and you're going to be so excited. You're just going to want to run through walls and tear your shirt like usher. You're going to be so excited. I want you to be there. We're going to do Q&A's live throughout the weekend. It's going to be so, so fun, very different from any of the other Ramsey events you've attended.

So make sure to get your tickets early, where tickets start at $99. That's only for a limited time, though. So get them now because those are going to sell out super fast. Like, Like John said, the Ramsey Events Center holds 2,400 people, so seats are limited, and you don't want to wait to get those tickets. So get them now. Go to ramseysolutions. Com/events.

John, I'm excited. All right, let's do this. It's just going to be a hoot, man. I love doing events up there?

Let's go to Brian. He's in Midland, Texas.

That's my neck of the woods. What's up, Brian? Hey, how are you doing? All right, man. What's up?

So I guess my question is, I had a late start to my adult life, if you will, because I turned 30 in prison.

Okay.

I've been just really focusing on working and building a career and whatnot.

Good for you, man. How long have you been out?

Thirteen years now.

Okay, so you're 43? Mid-fourties? Yes, sir. Okay, excellent. Been working hard? Staying in trouble?

Yes, sir.

All right. I'm proud of you, man. I don't want to do that again. Good for you. That's a hard road when you get out. Good for you, man. I'm proud of you.

What's up? Appreciate it. Well, I feel like I just keep getting caught into a lot of the same trash as probably most of the people that call in. Over the course since getting out and all that, I've put together a good career. I make pretty good money, but I have an expensive life. It's not so much a lifestyle. I think it comes with the career I have and the job I have because I work out here in Midland, but I live in Virginia, and I have kids in Oklahoma. So there's a lot of travel in order to fulfill all ends of the duties. I spend a lot on travel, and I have responsibilities in terms of child support and whatnot I want to change some of your language.

Is that cool? What's that? I want to change some of your language before we get going. Is that cool? Yeah, that's fine. The whole conversation we're going to have, me, you and Jade, I want you to picture we're sitting there at Roses in Midland, and I ordered several things at K-San. It's just three bodies hanging out, okay? So this isn't me getting on to you. It's me sitting with you, okay?

Yeah, no, I understand. All right. Okay.

I don't ever want you to say I got caught in a trap again. I don't ever want you to say, I've just found myself in this life. I want you, and you've been doing this for 13 years. I want you to stand up as tall as you can as a part-time Texan you are, I want you to say, I am taking full ownership of the chaos that has become my life. Okay?

Yeah, I can do that. That I can do.

Excellent. Once we take full ownership, we don't fall into traps anymore. I don't buy stupid stuff. I don't have houses all over the country. I do what I have to do, and then we go from there. Is that a good place to start? Yeah, fair enough. Tell me about this house. You live in Virginia, but you work in Midland.

Okay. We rent out there. Out where? To be honest, up until- Out Where? Up in Virginia.

What's in Virginia?

Girlfriend, I guess, if you will.

You're going to Virginia just to see your girlfriend?

I mean, I only go every few months.

But you're renting a house there?

Well, the house in Texas is provided through work.

Why don't you live there? It's definitely worth a shot. And just visit Virginia every few years. I mean, every few months.

No, that is what I do. I do basically live in Texas, but it gives me a residence, if you will, because I can't claim the work address as a residence.

But let me ask a clarifying question. You said we rent up in Virginia.

Who's paying- My girlfriend and I, we share the house.

Okay, and you're splitting the rent?

Yes.

Does she live with you in Midland when you're in Midland?

No, because her career is based over in Virginia.

Basically, she's got most of her rent subsidized by a dude who only comes home every few months.

Yeah, unfortunately, that is the case.

That's not unfortunate. That's the deal you set up, but she's getting the better into that deal, my brother.

Yeah, I don't like that for you.

No, I agree on that one. I don't think you're wrong on that one.

You have a home. You have a work home. Yeah, why can't you claim it? And she can live in Virginia.

Because it doesn't have a federal address.

Get a PO box in Midland.

I mean, I guess I could, but does You have a home? Maybe I don't understand how all this works. I didn't know if you could put that on a driver's license or any of that stuff. Don't you have to have a residence?

Where are you living? Are you in a trailer park as Because you're out in the field?

I mean, it's a man camp for the most part.

Okay, but you're living out in the field?

Yes.

You would be better off financially- So I spend my- Okay. And psychologically and spiritually if you rented a one-bedroom apartment in Midland also. Then once every few months, if you want to go visit your girlfriend in Virginia, you could go visit her at her place, or you could get a VRBO and save yourself a gillion dollars.

No, you're not wrong.

Catch me up. What's a man camp?

A man camp is when they're working- When they put workers. Yeah, they're working on the oil fields. Got it. They'll have a whole bunch of either small houses or trailer houses.

How long- Yeah, they're trailer houses. You stay in there for how How long are the stents there versus where you could live elsewhere?

I do 20 days on, 10 days off.

20 days on, 10 days off. Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'm with John, and I just think the girlfriend thing, you having a rent that far away, she just needs to have her own place to live. If you come visit, you stay with her. She could visit you.

Midland is beautiful. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not Virginia. It's not for sure.

Okay, so that's thing one. Let's rectify that because that's a lot of money going out the door where you could be, like John said, getting yourself a one bedroom or studio place in Midland that serves you better. I don't like saying man camp, but that's like your time away from the man camp. All right, that's thing one. Let's talk about Oklahoma City. Is that where your kids are?

It is, correct.

How often are you going there?

I go there one weekend a month. I get them. During that 10 days off. I go up there and see them at least once.

I would love for you to have a small house that you're buying equity into in Oklahoma. That's where it needs to be. By your children. I think it's time to cut girlfriend loose, or if girlfriend wants to move across the country, that's cool. But you're a dad, and your kids have lost a big chunk of their life with their dad. I want them, when they're 25, to see, Dude, my dad, A, turned it around, B, worked so hard out in that hot Texas sun, or this weekend that crazy freezing Texas winter. Then he came to see us as often as he could. But, brother, you're making too much money in an organization. I mean, it will roll over. When gas prices, when oil prices drop, they're going to cut everybody. So it goes up and down and up and down. But you're making too much money to be splitting it across the country like this.

Yeah. We didn't get to find out more information from you, but we're going to get you hooked up with Financial Peace University so you can walk through, figure out how to pay off this $100,000 of debt that you have and how to best optimize your income and your time. Austin is going to pick up and make sure that you are set up with Financial Peace University and every dollar. This is The Ramsey Show. All All right. You're listening to the radio show, The Ramsey Show, which is also on podcast and YouTube. Listen, I don't know what comes out of my mouth sometimes, John, but- You're listening to the radio show. I'm Jade Warshaw. That is Dr. John Deloney keeping me in check, man. He needs to. Your scripture and quote of the day, If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat. If he is thirsty, give him water to drink. That's Proverbs 25:21. Then Paul Stanley from Kiss says this, Charity is not an option. It's an obligation. All right, Paul. He feels strongly about that. I'll go along with it.

That's one of my favorite Proverbs in the whole wide world. Yeah? Yep.

Let's read it again. If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat. If he is thirsty, give him water to drink.

I like that. Hate has never solved a single problem. That's a word. In the history of humankind. It's never solved a problem.

No.

Never solved a problem.

Only love can do that.

Never solved the problem.

We're being very philosophical.

One day, we're going to figure that out.

We will. Let's go to Josh. He might have some answers. In Cincinnati, Ohio. What's going on, Josh?

I think you guys are taking my call today. I appreciate it. You bet. I am a recent I'm a college grad, and I'm just trying to figure out what's the best way to pay off some of these loans. They're all federal, and I owe about $24,000 in federal debt. Right now, the options I have are the SAFE plan through the Biden administration. It's income-based, so they're going off with my previous year income, which is about 35, 36,000.

What's this year's income?

However, this year's income has gone up to about 60. Okay. It's like 10% of your income. Currently, I'm paying $30 a month until January of next year, and then they would reevaluate what my income is. Okay. I'm just wanting to know, what are your thoughts on this? Is this the best way to go about it? Is there other ways? I'm trying to work the baby steps since I have step one done and step two is obviously paying off debt.

Is this your only debt? That's where I'm.

That's my only debt.

In your situation, because it's your only debt, I wouldn't do it. Because the only purpose that I would use, and I've gone on this soapbox before, so I won't get too deeply into it, but the only way that I would go on a plan like this is if you were like, Jade, I've got a lot of debt, and you listed all the different ones, credit cards and personal loans and cars and student loans and houses. I would say, okay, because when you get out of debt, what you're ultimately doing is you're listing all of your debt, smallest to largest. The goal is to pay minimum payments on everything and then have a bunch of money left to throw at the smallest debt. When you're making minimum payments, yeah, you want those minimum payments to be small. If that were you and you had a bunch of other debts, then I would say, yeah, go on this save plan temporarily so you can have a smaller minimum payment, so you can have more money to sock away at that smallest debt. But in your case, this is your only debt. You're in the mode where you're socking all the money that you can at this debt.

The goal isn't to pay less. In your case, the goal is to pay as much as you possibly can. If you're If you're making $60,000 this year or if you're on track to make $60,000, I'm looking at that and I'm going, Okay, this guy, are you single?

Yeah.

What's your living situation?

I currently rent. I have three roommates. So that's another part of my thing. Eventually, within the next year or two, I would like to purchase a house.

Well, we can't get to that yet. We're trying to see as much as I can. We got to go in order. So with the baby steps, this is all fitting together in a nice tapestry. So we want to do it the right way. At the right time. So if I'm you, I'm going, Okay, I'm going to make $60,000 this month. Can I find a way to make 15 more so that I'm at 85 or 75? I'm sorry. And then can I pay off $24,000 in a year? I think, yes.

Okay.

I think you pick up a side hustle where you make in a little bit more. And I think that you knock this out in 12 months. And then- Got you.

So I'm working these steps It's so funny because I have been with my company now for three years. I just recently, since graduating, I got a new job within the company. So I've already been investing into my 401k. I'm at 13 % with them matching five. Is that something you would recommend to get some of that money back into my bank account.

I want you to be able to invest, but I want you to invest in the right way, because what happens here, if you go your route, everybody thinks the baby steps or the plan that we have is just this idea. But The fact of the matter is there's a method to it, and if you don't do it in the right order, you're going to actually end up screwing yourself pretty bad. Because what happens is you're investing in that match and you're doing great. But if you don't have money saved for an emergency and you buy a house, What happens is your 401k becomes your emergency fund. Before you know it, you're dipping into your 401k. There's some things there that are holding you back. Also, if you're investing that percentage, that's money that you could be using to pay off this $24,000 $4,000 of debt. Because what I want to get your brain thinking is that math is math, whether we like it or not. If you save $24,000 in your 401k, but you owe the federal government $24,000, you're at zero. That money is not yours. You tell yourself it's yours, but it's not really yours.

Can you do a fun thought experiment with me, Josh? Sure. It's 2024. What's to happen this year?

An election year.

Yeah. We don't know who's going to get elected. We don't know any thing. We especially don't know the people who are running what their platforms even are, what things they even want to do. Fast forward to December 31st of 2024. We'll have some answer, maybe, who knows. Would you rather be sitting on December 31st with your fingers crossed, hoping that the federal government, which, by the way, has done a real bang-up job the past 50 years of keeping his promises and doing math problems well, that they are going to continue whatever plan you've signed up for? Or would you rather be sitting on December 31st doing what Jade just said, work your job and then go put in some good podcast and Uber all throughout the evening. Then on Saturdays, go Uber again. On Sundays, Uber again. You wake up in December 31st, and you don't owe anybody anything. Then when things get chaotic and hectic, you go, At least I'm off the hook, and I'm not chained to anything. Which one of those feels like it's going to feel better?

Definitely the one where I don't owe anyone anything.

Bro, I would triple down. I would do exactly what Jade said. I would make December 31st this maniacal, I will owe nobody anything by December 31st. My family, I'm going to send you all handmade cards for Christmas. Friends, we're not going to do nothing this year.

That's right.

We are going to be free come December 31st. Then whoever gets elected in whatever whatever's on fire at that point, we'll be able to handle that knowing that we're not going to go down with a ship.

Yeah, I like that.

Josh, how much money do you have saved?

About 3,000 plus about 20,000 on my floor at one time.

Okay. We're going to walk the baby steps. Let's commit to walking. Let's commit to the process and know that this is the plan. There's some piece that you have in walking a plan. When you walk a plan, suddenly all of the answers are answered for you. That's one of the benefits of choosing a plan and saying, Okay, I'm going to do that one. Because then when you have these questions of, Should I invest yet? The plan tells you, Should I pay off my debt first? The plan It drives you. As long as you walk the plan, you can rest in knowing, Okay, I'm doing things right. I'm going in this direction. It's worked for millions of people, including the woman that you're talking to online right now. I can tell you that it works. That's what I want you to do. I want you take $2,000 of the money that you have saved, and I want you to start putting it towards this debt. Now you have $22,000 of student loan debt, and I want you to get crazy and pay this off. You're going to have it done so quickly. Then you're going to save up 3-6 months of expenses.

Then you're going to start saving for that down payment on a house. But you don't need to worry about... You don't have to do all this at once. You just graduated, for heaven's sake. You're doing right. You got a house with two roommates. You didn't pull out a lot of student loan debt. I'm glad that you didn't. So let's just take our time and walk down that road. My guess is that in two and a half years, you're going to be a homeowner, and it's going to be pretty good.

Choose freedom, my brother. Choose freedom.

Choose freedom. I love it. Thanks for hanging out with us for a couple of of ours here on The Ramsey Show. We love that you were here. We're glad that we were able to take some of your calls. We hope you enjoyed it, and we'll see you back here next time. Hey, folks. Dave here.

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