Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's The Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. George Camel, Ramsey personality, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour, and host of the George Camel with the K, big hit show on YouTube is my co-host today, Open Phones at Triple Eight, 8255, 225. Well, if you didn't hear us dancing in the streets and cheering and didn't see all the confetti going off and you missed all of the celebrations, then we just weren't loud enough when we were cheering for the news that Dr. John Deloney's book, Building a Non-Anxious Life in week one, is the number one best-selling book in the United States of America.

That's incredible. Well-deserved. Congrats, Dr. John Deloney. Well, cool. Very cool. The team did an incredible job, of course. They did. The platform that you have so generously given us on top of the expertise of the team, on top of an amazing, life-changing book, all of that culminates into a.

Number one. Yeah. It is a great book, and the people that get it, their lives will be changed. That's the part that's gratifying. But it also helps to just come out and win the Super Bowl occasionally.

That never hurts.

Just mic drop it. Right, baby, just do it. A full number one best seller. That's John's second number one best selling book. It came out a week ago, Tuesday. Of course, it takes one week to get the first day, first-sales data in. You guys helped us by pre-purchasing the book. A lot of you, thank you for that. That helps a lot to accomplish that goal. It's not only an honor, but it's also a big marketing help for the book and for John for it to land on number one, because when people see a number one, they're like, Hmm, maybe I should that out. Must be good. It is good. It is really legitimately good. If you know of anyone, which is everyone that has anxiety in one way or another, this book is for you, building a non-anxious life. Dr. John Deloney. Number one best seller in the nation last week.

Boom. That's got to feel good. On top of doctor, now he gets number one again.

Yeah, well, I mean, we.

Are- We got two PhDs, two number ones. The guy just loves to do everything twice.

There you go. There you go. Two PhDs, two numbers. Overachiever, John. That's it, John. That's you, John. You're the overachiever. I didn't even think about that. That's good. I like that. You can check it out at ramsleysolutions. Com and get it there or anywhere. Great books are sold and building a non-anxious life. Dr. John Deloney. John will be with us to celebrate, but he's out working selling this book. He's out in another city doing podcasts and TV appearances and et cetera, et cetera, which is what we do when we're out selling a book. He's out there hanging out in another state doing that. He's been busy. We'll celebrate with him proper on the air when he's here next on the air with us. But in the meantime, the news is brand new, and we want to make sure we told all of you that purchased the book, Thank you, because it caused that to happen. Thank you for your trust. Thank you for your business. Jt starts this hour off in Dallas. Hi, JT. What's up?

Hey, how's it going, Dave? What's up, George? Hey. Congratulations, Dr. Jaloney, too.

Thank you. How can we help today?

Yeah, so me and my fiancé are preparing to buy a house in Dallas. Basically, my question is, I'm worried if I'm overspending on my mortgage. And so the house is worth 350, 350,000. I think it's a great deal. Mortgage, interest, PMI, all that good stuff would be 2,840. Our combined income monthly, because we both work in sales, if we're just saying our salary, that's $7,400. If we do our salary plus 50% of commission, it's around $12,000 a month. Okay.

Is this on a 15-year fixed?

It's not. That's the one- Yeah.

I'd put it on a 15-year fixed or I wouldn't do it. I think you can afford to do that and still do it within these numbers. However, you're speaking as if you're already married and you're not. When do you get married?

Our wedding is dated May.

Okay. You do not buy the house prior to May.

Okay.

Because you're going to own a house with someone you're not married to. You don't have a combined income. Dude, you're talking to somebody who's been doing this 35 years. I've had the horrible stories of we bought the house together, but we didn't make it to the altar together for whatever reason. Yeah. Talk about an ugly breakup. I'll tell you a horrible one. This will never happen to you, JT. But just to let you know, I'm not just pulling this out of my hat. I actually talked to one guy. He owned a house with his fiancé's mother because she was killed in a car wreck before the wedding.

And.

All of her assets went to her family. Now he's partners with his passed away, horrible tragedy, fiancée's mother in a home. Talk about awkward, messy. Don't do this, dude. Wait on after May. You've got plenty of time in your life to buy a house. You are not required to buy a house right now. You all got a house fever. You've gone out looking at houses. You've already picked this house out. You might even have this house under contract, do you?

I do.

Oh, boy. It's like he's done this before.

I do. I'm sorry, JT. I would not close on this house. I would tell these folks, I'm going to give you my earnest plan to walk away. Your fiancé is going to look at you like you have one eye in the center of your head. But I am not predicting a breakup or certainly not predicting her death. I hope none of those things happen. I don't think they will. But you are in a little hurry. The only thing you got in a hurry about is buying a house. You can get in a hurry about getting married. We are. Where's the urgent- We could solve this. You could just go ahead and get married.

Yeah, we could get married and go to court.

Is there a big wedding plan, like a huge big deal?

There is a wedding plan, yeah.

Okay. If you went and got legally married, I'll bless it. I would say do it. But I'm going to beg you not to close on a home with someone that you are not legally married to just because you're leaving all kinds of potential problems and then go ahead and have the wedding. A lot of people do that these days, apparently. I hear more and more. I've run into that more and more that I'll be sitting there at a wedding, and they'll go, Oh, it's not the real wedding. What do you mean? I drove all the way over here. What do you mean? It's not the real wedding. I think I'm married four months ago, and then it was a party.

Dog and pony shell.

Dog and pony shell. Who does that? Well, a lot of people these days don't know. I don't know this stuff. Okay, so whatever, it's okay. Day is old school. I thought when you had a wedding, you got married. But it's a new thing, so it's okay. Hey, if you do that, JT, I just don't want you to get in a problem. For those of you that are just shacking up, don't buy a house with your shack up or whatever you call them, okay? Don't do that either. Same problem, okay? Breaking up is hard to do. But if you own a house together, it's freaking impossible.

Well, the fact that JT called after he's already on contract saying, Here's the numbers. I'm trying to justify it. It tells me.

He's even going late.

I don't feel good about this. What do I do?

I think your numbers are okay. Your timing sucks. But yeah, everything else is good. What attitude? This is the Ramsey Show. What we teach at Ramsey boils down to taking control of your life. It's all about personal responsibility. And if you own a gun, that's even more important. I recommend becoming a member of the US Concealed Carry Association. You'll have immediate access to liability, insurance, education, and training to protect your loved ones and defend your rights in the most responsible way. Go to usca. Com/ramsey and join today. That's usca. Com/ramsey. George Camel, Ramsey personality is my co-host, Open Phones, a triple-eight, 825, 5225 royalty is in the house. One of the top YouTubers in America today, or in the world for that matter, Graham Stephan has become good friends with me and through George. I was good friends with George long before that. I've been blessed to be on his show a couple of times, and he's dropped by here once before and they were in town. He and Jack and I just did a version of his Iced Coffee House. Did I say that right?

Iced Coffee Hours.

Hours.

Iced Coffee Hours. It's like Smart.

Money Happy Hours. It would be in the house, but there we go. If you don't know who Graham is, you need to check him out. $130,000,000 worth of real estate he has sold in his life. He does a YouTube channel on finance and on real estate. It's a lot of fun to check out Graham, Stephen. Be sure and do that. Last month, they had about 100 million viewers on all of their various forms of TikTok and everything else, and four and a half million subscribers on YouTube. If you don't know who he is, it's because you're not in that format, and that's the only way it's possible. You're not that hip if you don't know how to have that. All of us who hang out anything around that know who Graham Stephan is. Welcome back.

Thank you so much for having me back on.

So good to have you. I love this. So good to have you. First question, because you and I both share this huge love of real estate, and these interest rates ticking up highly unusual across the landscape of the last 20 years. What are you seeing out there? Slowdown, prices? What are you seeing?

It's definitely slowed down a lot. What I've noticed, a lot of the smart money, it seems to be either buying real estate and cash or they're waiting on the sidelines. I think a lot of people look at real estate from an investment standpoint and think, Why would I buy real estate today making a 6-maybe 7% return when I could use the same money to buy treasuries without any work, any risk at five and a half %? There seems to be a tipping point right now where deals are very difficult to come by. There's a lot of competition and sellers are locked in to these very low mortgages. They have very little incentive to sell. If they have a mortgage that's 4%, why would they sell and replace that with a 7 or 8% mortgage? It doesn't make a lot of sense.

Investors aside, consumer to consumer seem to be having that discussion. Absolutely. They're saying, Yeah, I could sell my house. The price is still really good, but then I got to go buy a house at 3X or 4X the interest rate. Yeah, I could refinance it later, but they're really not thinking that way. They're thinking, I'm just going to wait on this a minute.

Yeah, well, I think 60% of mortgages right now are locked in 4% or less. Yes.

Substantial. Yes, it's almost all of them. The number below 2% is bizarre that's out there, so cool stuff. Stock market's doing well. Yeah, it has been. Like you said, the treasury is there. But that's the little secret. Everybody in the media, the mass media in particular, is talking real estate and failed to mention that the S&P in the last 12 months has done about what, 16, 18%.

About that. At the peak, it was up almost 20%.

Yeah. Wow. That's just the S&P. If you just bought an index fund, which people do with their eyes closed, that's a no brain, no thought thing. If you actually invested and thought about it and studied a little bit, you could do better than that.

Yeah. Graham, I'm curious, a lot of your videos, of course, for YouTube, we have to be a little salacious, right? There has to be a little doom and gloom to get the people to click. But what are your real thoughts when it comes to the economy? What's going to happen in 2024? Where do you think things are heading?

What is that? Are you doing doom and gloom on your YouTube?

Yeah, you have to because otherwise people don't click. Now, my videos, I like to be pretty unbiased. I like to- Share the facts. -present the entire picture, let people come to their own conclusions. But if you don't make a somewhat negative title, no one will click. The videos itself usually are pretty positive overall, but you have to lean into that because otherwise people just don't pay attention. But you seem like an optimistic guy. Just talking to you, you are very optimistic about the future, about finances, where the economy is going, and you're invested in the stock market and real estate. Well, I think you could do well regardless of how the economy does. I think that's a component of it, and it might be a bit short term in terms of the next few years. I have no idea what could happen. Everything that I would think is going to happen, turned out opposite. I would have no prediction in terms of what might happen. But I think long term, I believe in myself, my ability to make money, I think, for most people, they have a lot more direct control than they think. You're betting on the American economy long term?

I think so. Of course, I diversify. I have international exposure as well. But it's a small component, but I do think that's important.

The interesting thing is that people get confused between investing and speculating. Speculating is a purchase that you're going to turn fairly quickly. It's not an evil word. It's just not investing. Investing always involves a long-term time horizon. When you're investing with a long-term time horizon, let's call it five years or more, 100% of the time I'm comfortable with the stock market. Oh, it's down. Then get in. It's on sale. 100% of the time I'm comfortable with the real estate market. Well, I don't know. Five years from now, you're going to not be doing that. You're going to be glad you bought a property. A long-term time horizon, like you said, to me, it just smooths everything out. Then you've got historical track records and things start to kick in. Do I know what it's going to do between now and this time next year? I could do a flip? No, that would scare the crud out of me. That's why a lot of home builders aren't building specs right now. You can't predict it. I mean, economists and weather forecasters are the only people who can be wrong half the time and keep their job, right?

Absolutely. Then you could be right once. Then you're a genius. Then you can claim that forever. You're a genius after that.

That was my one thing. Exactly. You could write three books.

Well, I'm curious, Graham, you're getting married next year. Yes, I am. It's very exciting. I didn't know this. You didn't know this. I got a note from you. Congratulations. I thought you knew about this. This is public knowledge, right? I didn't break this news. No, you did not break the news, yeah. Well, I'm curious. You were asking Dave in an interview earlier, which little teaser there, about his relationship with his wife, Sharon and marriage. Is there anything you're curious about, maybe nervous about when it comes to finances and combining those? Not really. Macy and I are pretty attuned when it comes to money, and she's naturally very frugal. Like you? Yeah. To some degrees, I would say it's a good balance because I'll certainly go out. I don't fret anymore of going to dinner and spending $100 on the bill. Whereas five years ago, that would be like, Well, if I spend $100 here, I could cut back $100 over here, and then it balances out. If I skip this over here, then I don't do that anymore. I've really come into - You learn to enjoy your money a little bit. Yes. I'm still frugal, but not to the same degree or.

Something like that. That's when he got married. Now it's.

Lightened.

Up a.

Little bit. It's when he lightened up a little bit. I lightened up.

A bit. Just a little bit. A little bit, yeah. You and Maisy are both tightwads, and so later you'll make little tightwads. This is great. Yeah.

It's going to be so fun. This is great. We have.

A bunch of cheapskates.

What are you willing to splurge on these days? As you've started to let go of some of that and enjoy it a little more? I would say experiences or something. In the past, I would usually forego that to work more. I would say experiences, I would say dinners are something that I've really been enjoying and going out to eat a few times a week. I would say saving time, which is something that I've never really done before. Spending money for time-saving conveniences. If I could. For instance, if I get a nicer seat on the airplane, but that means that maybe I could work a little bit better. If I have a slightly larger seat, I could put my computer in front of me, and if I could get something else done, I see that as a justifiable expense. There are certain things that I could do to save time. Well, if you need tips on spending, ask Dave. He's really good at enjoying his money. He loves experiences. He's traveling all over the world. That's part of it. Give, save, spend. You got to have balance there. That's good, yeah.

What's the biggest advice with you having one of the largest YouTube channels on real estate and money in the world today, what's the biggest piece of advice in this current environment you've got for folks listening?

I think it really just depends on what their objective is. My big thing is always save as much as you can, spend less than what you make. I think those are just important qualities to have in terms of career, though, because that's where I've really gotten the biggest benefit is just the channel and the outreach. The savings certainly helped, but the income that I made from that was certainly a big catalyst. But I truly loved what I do, and I still do. It's like to me, work never felt like work. It was always something fun. That's where things came really easy for me. I feel like if people could find what they truly love to do where it doesn't feel like work to them and they could spend all day doing it, that's how you typically will succeed in areas where others just can't keep up. That's your unfair advantage, I think.

You're more creative, you're more energetic, and you have to watch because you work all the time. This is just fun. Okay. Congratulations. Thank you so much. And congrats on the marriage.

Thank.

You. It was awesome. Thank you. Give Macy our love. Good stuff. Graham Stephan, be sure and check out his shows on YouTube, The Graham Stephan Show. And one more time, the name of the show I was just on.

Iced Coffee Hour.

Iced Coffee Hour. I missed it up. I didn't want to mess it up again. Be sure and check it out. Thanks for stopping by, my friend. Thank you so much. Good to see you. This is The Ramsey Show.

This episode is sponsored by Better Help. Hey, folks, it's Dr. John Deloney. This time of year can be hard, and seasonal affective disorder is real. When I moved to Nashville, the time change caught me off guard. It got dark at 4:30, and I was ready for bed by 6:45 PM. Things weren't as fun. Even the food lost its flavor. Now I know how to prepare my body when things get too dark. I go outside to enjoy nature. I stick to an exercise routine, and I intentionally connect with people. Another thing I did is therapy. Therapy can be a bright spot even when the sun goes down too soon. Something positive and interactive to make us feel grounded and give us the tools to manage the ways seasonal change can affect our bodies. So if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. Betterhelp is flexible because it's totally online, so it can fit into any schedule. Just fill out a short questionnaire to get with a licensed therapist. You can switch therapists at any time for no charge. Find your bright spot this season with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp. Com/daloney today to get 10% off your first month.

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George Camel, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Open phones at triple 8, 825, 5, 225. Gordon is in Flint, Michigan. Hi, Gordon. Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Thanks for having me.

Sure. What's up?

Well, I'm still working. I'm 61, soon to be 62, and was wondering if I should take my Social Security at 62, I'm debt-free, my home's paid for. I'm just not sure if I should wait till I'm 67. I have about 905,000 in my 401(k).

Way to go. You're a millionaire, so this doesn't matter. It's just a mathematical question.

Correct. It's just knowing to do the right thing.

It took me a while to find the data to get. Here's the way the math works on the calculation. As you know, the sooner you take it, like 62 versus 65, the less you get per month for the rest of your life, right?

Correct.

But you get it for three years longer or whatever. If you take it at 62 versus 65, you get extra 36 checks that you wouldn't have gotten. There's two factors that come into play here. One is the longer you live, the more it makes sense to take it later because you're going to get a bigger check the whole time. Also, there's what's called the present value of money. Would you rather have $10,000 today or $10,000 10 years from now? I'd rather have it today and invest it, and 10 years from now, it'd be $20,000. So the present value of money. You're getting that money sooner, and it is more valuable to get it at 62, even though it is less money. If you took all the money that you had between 62 and 65 and invested it, it probably would make up the difference throughout your life mathematically. You see what I'm saying?

Yes.

The longer you live, the better off you are to get the bigger check. But in other words, if you knew for certain you're going to live to 70, you'd be better off taking eight years from 62 to 70. But if you were going to live to 90, you'd have been better off taking the bigger check from 65-90. You follow me? Yes. That's the way it works out. The problem is we don't know when we're going to die, and that screws up the whole formula. No calculator for that. It messes up the calculator, right? Yes. The other thing is this. I have not started taking it. I'm 63, and I just not thought about it because it hadn't mattered. But I did not take it for a reason. I just didn't screw with it because it doesn't matter. But I would probably suggest to do what I have in mind. I'd probably start taking it and just throw it in an investment. I haven't done that. I probably need to go do that when I get off the air.

Okay. I was thinking about just taking my wife's when she turned 62 and wait on mine until I'm 67.

But then we would have to- Yeah, but the point is, let's just say you died at 65. That'd be a really bad plan.

That would be a bad plan?

Yeah, because if you died at 65 and you never got any Social Security ever because you were waiting until 67, they would have kept all your money. You follow me?

Yes.

That's the problem with this thing. You can't figure it out. I tend to take it early. I have a tendency to take it early, even if you don't need it and turn around and invest it and just leave it alone, just because I want to get something out of these people because they've been screwing me for 50 years. I want to get some of it back, right?

Right. Do you know what the amount is at 62 that you would get?

I would get right at 2280.

Have you calculated it at 65?

At 67, it was 31 because I've.

Been on the Social Security thing. Okay, so it's 900 bucks, so it's $10,000 a year difference. Right. Yeah. If you invested $2,200, which is $24,000 a year, $25,000 a year, okay? If you invest that, but for five years, it will create more than $1,000 of income per month. You should take it now and invest it.

That's why I'm on the phone, because I just needed that reassurance. Because I'm still working, my company bought me out two years ago, and it was too soon then to retire.

This is not about retirement. This is about we're just wanting to take Social Security. It's different.

Yeah.

If you're not going to need that money, add it, invest it. I mean, even just crunching the numbers right here, 10 years of growth at 10%, you'd have 436 grand at 72.

Now, just from investing this- Just investing.

Every single one of those checks.

I need to go get this money.

I know.

That's serious, Dave. What have you been doing, man? People are taking my advice and I'm not doing good. I got to work on this.

Like you said, it ain't worth fiddling with at your level.

Well, but yeah, it's worth fiddling with because anytime you can stick it to the government, you want to.

That's true. That I can see Dave.

Going, Oh. For that reason, it's worth.

Fiddling with. Uncle Sam has been hanging on my money far too long.

Oh, my drunk uncle, Sam. Open phones at triple 8, 825, 522. Everybody's got one in their family, right? Okay, so Anthony is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, Anthony. What's up?

Hey, guys. My wife and I were on baby steps four, five, and six. Two years ago, we moved from California here to Raleigh. We have some money sitting in our savings, but we just don't know what to do with it. I'm not sure if we should chunk some at the house or put some in a 509 for our two kids, but it's about 70k and just looking for some guidance on this.

That's on top of your emergency fund?

Correct. I have 30k in our emergency fund. Cool.

How are the kids doing on the college fund?

We haven't started. He's two years old and we have a newborn baby on the way.

Exciting. Well, there's a start. You can chunk some money into a 529 plan and get that thing going and then use the rest of it towards the house.

Okay, any recommendations on how much to start off with out of that 70 and the 529?

Well, they got so much time. It doesn't really matter all that much.

Just depends on how heavy you want to do. It's pretty easy to throw 10K on each of them. You'll be amazed in 18 years what 10K will turn into.

Punch that into a compound interest calculator and you'll be like, Oh, okay, we're good.

Yeah, you really got a real strong Head Start. You don't have to do much more than that. I probably throw 10K in each of those and 50 at the mortgage. What's your mortgage balance?

Two hundred and thirty thousand. Okay.

You did not come from California with a huge equity to Raleigh and just pay cash for a house?

No, we put about 160 down on this house here, and we have the 70 left over.

This house here, is there another house?

No, we bought this house for 410.

Oh, okay. You mean when you bought the house here in Raleigh, I misunderstood. Okay. All right, so you got two. What's your household income?

One-twenty. Good. Okay.

Yeah, so you throw 50 at this, you got 180 left. You're going to be done about four or five years on the house, right?

That's what I'm thinking.

I'm just going to knock this out. Yeah, no question. I'm not letting that sit in the savings account. We're going to knock on Mr. Mortgage in the mouth. I like it.

Great plan.

Get it. Get after it.

Yeah, that's a common question, Dave. There's not specific parameters we put around baby steps five and 6 about how much to put in the college fund versus towards the house. A lot of people have that. Do you have any good parameters around how to look at that? Because obviously, the kid's ages matter. Yes. What college they're going to go to matters, what your mortgage balances matters.

Yes, all of that matters. It changes so dramatically that I've never been able to come up with an exact formula to go, Okay, maybe step five, here's your formula. But 10% into the- Yeah, it's not. It's not. It doesn't work like that. I don't even want to pay for my kid's college. I can't factor that in. That's enough. But the thing is, what I have found, though, is that once we get people on this track and they're like him, they're thinking about it, people don't make mistakes when they're thinking about it. They make mistakes when they aren't paying attention and don't bother. If I go deal with college, they go deal with college. So it works out okay. That's how Baby Step 5 has been successful, even though it's super vague.

But people come in all the time and say, Dave, we put our kids.

Through college debt-free. Yeah, they do it. We hear it all the time. They figured it out because they dealt with college. This is The Ramsey Show.

Fake it till you make it. It's popular career advice, but it doesn't work for very long. If you don't love what you do, you can't fake the enthusiasm and energy you need to win at work. You also can't fake your physical health and energy. Everybody knows we should eat more fruits and veggies, but fruit chews and vegetable chips don't count. If you aren't winning physically, I promise you're limiting your opportunities to win professionally. Folks, I know you're going hard right now to pay off debt and get ahead professionally. You need another gear, and that's why Balance of Nature will help you. They help me. They give me the benefits of fresh, whole fruits and veggies in just seconds. The blend of 31 different fruits and veggies is powdered in an advanced process that locks in the nutrients. So go to balanceofnature. Com and enter the promo code, Ramsey, to get 35% off your first order and lock in a lifetime price as a preferred customer. That's balanceofnature. Com with the promo code, Ramsey, for 35 % off your first order.

George Camel, YouTube star, Ramsey personality is my co-host. Check him out at George Camel with a K. That show on Ramsey Networks on YouTube is blowing up. He's having a blast with it, and the listeners, viewers are as well. And he's, of course, the co-host with Rachel Cruz on Smart Money Happy Hour. So I ran into your Smart Money Happy Hour producer as I was leaving yesterday, and I yelled across the building, Uh-oh, that's the Smart Money Happy Hour producer. She went...

Yeah, you can't just yell at team members, David. It frightens them.

I was trying to act like a crazy fan or something, and it just.

Blew her mind. My favorite is when your wife, Sharon, will text Rachel and I and let us know her feedback on an episode. It's always entertaining.

She loves it. Yeah. She actually does not do that to other shows, Joe, that George, that's- That means the world. Yeah. Well, it's dangerous territory because that knife can cut both ways. Can I.

Be truthful? It's the only fan I need to keep the show on the air. You're not going to cancel your wife's favorite show. Can't do it.

Yeah, but that knife cuts both ways. That's true. We have a good time. If it ceases to be her favorite.

Show- Got to keep Sharon happy, Dave.

You know that lot. She's a hard woman, I'm just saying. George is also a star of the Every dollar webinars where we teach people how to do a budget. Those have been fun. It's completely free. They are funny and fun. Jade, Warshaw, Rachel Cruz, George Camel, and the Every dollar team are hosting free online budgeting trainings, webinars, and teach you how to run the Every dollar app. It's all free. We'll show you how toon a budget, show you how to get on a budget, show you how to get on a plan, show you how to tell your money what to do instead of wondering where it went. George likes to talk about creating some margin. They go through actual examples. But the cool thing about these webinars is you can talk back to George and Rachel and Jade, whoever's doing it.

Yeah, we're the live chat, the Q&A. We have people come on audio and ask their question live, like The Ramsey Show.

There you go. We're having a good time with them. It's a.

Modified version of this. All right, there we go. Every dollar. Com/budgeting, there's one almost every week. One of the personalities, two or three times a week is not unusual. Be sure and check them out. Everydollar. Com/budgeting and sign up and be a part of those. All right, Justin is in Salt Lake. Hi, Justin. Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

How's it going? I think you have to take my call. I am on baby step number two of paying off my debt, and I have about $38,000 worth of debt and I'm 21. I can call you guys and see if I can get some life.

On- What debt.

Have you got? -my situation. I got a past due phone bill of $1,900. I got a credit card debt for $700. I got a personal loan out for $1,500. I got two other possessions: one for $5,000, one for $10,000. I got a current car loan for $12,000, and I owe my girlfriend's grandma $7,000.

You owe your girlfriend's dad?

Grandma. Grandma. $7,000. Yeah.

She.

Helped me get down payment on my new vehicle because my old one blew motor on it, and I am employed by her.

You're.

Employed by her? I have two triple vehicles.

One of... What do you do for your girlfriend's grandmother?

They're on an audio-visual company. We run the clinic in Park City, Utah, for a hotel like San, Eric, and St. Louis Lodge, and a couple of other places. We do weddings and business meetings. I was going in and.

I just go in and I just thought- How have you managed to get two cars repoed in your 21 years old?

When I was 18, I got my first saw the loan out and it was for $10,000 through the lease. I had a fan to say I'm not one of them. The vehicle had issues and the motor went out and I said, Okay, guys, I'm not paying on this anymore, so I left them repossessed it. That was a voluntary repo. Then the $10,000 one was I got into a fault accident and the remaining balance on the loan is what my insurance wanted to cover.

Because you didn't have enough coverage?

That is correct. Okay.

Well, when I went broke at 28 years old, Justin, and lost everything, I had two babies and a marriage hanging on by a thread. I made the decision I was going to do a detailed analysis of how stupid I had been so that I didn't do it again. You seem to be repeating this pattern. I've been back for quite a few times. Like cars are killing you.

I've been through 18 cars in the last four years.

Yeah, cars are killing you. It's just the size of you.

Yeah.

Okay. What do you make?

I make about $37,000 every year.

Are you getting side jobs?

No, I've been picking up a lot of overtime at this my current job. I've been working 80, 100-hour weeks.

You're making $37,000 doing that?

Yeah, that's just my base about my overtime. My overtime wages are about $3,300 every.

Two weeks. Okay, so another $36,000. You're doubling your income. That is correct. That would make sense if you're working 80 hours instead of 40. Okay, so that'd be logical. Okay, good. All right, so you're making it like 70 as long as you can continue to get the OT. And if you can't get the OT, pick up something else, right?

Yeah. Okay, that's good then. We had a slow season about November, so I got a second job lined up.

Okay, are you paying payments on the $1,900 old phone bill?

Yes. Actually, I'm paying $300 a month until I get enough to what I want out. I know my credit card loss payment is going to be coming out next week on Thursday. I'll be losing out $600 credit.

Card debt. The two repos will settle with you for pennies on the dollar, lump sum. If you have a $10,000 repo deficit, the big one, you probably could offer them $3,000 cash and they'll take it. You're going to have to argue with them and act like you're broke and carry on and whine and I can't pay it and this is all I can do, and otherwise I'm going to have to file bankruptcy and you're going to have to threaten them and all this stuff. But you flop around on the floor and foam at the mouth a little bit, and then they'lldo. You can eventually get them to settle for about three grand. Okay. The same thing on the $5,000, you got to be able to do that for about 1,500 bucks. Get it in writing. Offer them a lump sum, nothing, no payments, no payment plans. I can't put you on a payment plan. I don't have room to have another payment plan. I've already got a car payment. That's why this got repoed because I'm a broke guy. But broke guy is 21 years old and I want to settle this. I can give you $3,000 cash, or I can give you nothing and you can get nothing.

Which do you want? You want nothing? I can do nothing. I can hang up the phone and you'll get nothing. What is it you want? This is how you have to talk to them because they're brain damaged. You got to really lean in, dude. You got to really lean in and then get it in writing from them before you send them any money and do not allow them to have electronic access to your checking account because they will take everything in your account, not what you agreed to, because they lie. Okay? It's an industry of scum. You have to treat it like you're dealing with pure evil, even though you're the one that didn't pay your bill. But you still have to go treat them like you're handling an alligator, okay?

Great.

Get it in writing, no electronic access to your checking account, and then you can give them a one-time prepaid debit card number, put the amount on there, or you can wire it to them, or you can do whatever. But know that do not give them where you work. Don't give them your Social Security number. Don't give them your current address. Don't give them anything except $3,000. If you want that, I'll give it to you. But if you don't, I'm going to let you talk to a dial tone. I got another repo I can call and talk to. This is how you have to negotiate hardball and then get these things out of your life, and then quit borrowing money on cars.

Yeah. That's my- Yeah, that's.

My- Not yeah. Never do it again, okay? Yeah, I know. You're 21 and you're already a two-time loser. Don't do this anymore. Learn the lesson.

Yeah, what's with my situation? My car insurance is like $700 a month on top of my car payment.

Why? You're 92 tickets?

I'm.

Close. Okay, 91.

I think we got to stop you.

From driving around, man. I think you don't need cars at all. Goodness gracious. There's nothing in your life about cars that turned out good. You even got a loan from your girlfriend's grandmother who's your employer. This sounds like four guns pointed at your face to me.

That's a country song.

You lose the girlfriend, you lose the job, you lose the car. Everything could go wrong if granny gets pissed here. This is bad. Oh, man. Let's clean this up, man. Get it out of your life. Get this stuff. Go make a bunch of money, clean these debts up as soon. Don't do anything else. I don't want to hear about you going out to eat, and you certainly don't need to see happy hour. There's nothing to be happy about. You need to get this mess cleaned up. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Number one bestselling author, Ken Coleman, of the book Paycheck to Purpose and host of the Ken Coleman Show is my co-host today. Ken talks to folks if you don't know about their careers, their jobs, how to make more money, how to love, and how to deal, how to love your place, and how to deal with your employer and proper things to do around the workplace. We're going to do that and your questions about your life and your money at Triple Eight, 825-5225.

If you haven't heard, we are all celebrating around the Ramsey Place right now. Lots of screaming and confetti going off. We found out a few hours ago that Dr. John Deloney's second book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, debute at number one. Number one best-selling book in America today in the non-fiction section. Pretty stink and Cool. That's because a whole bunch of you bought the book to help folks, yourself or someone else deal with anxiety in a real-world way, not in some cheesy way, not some egghead way, no magic pills, but the six daily choices to build a non-anxious life in a very anxious world. Congratulations to Dr. John. He's on the road doing podcasts and television and so forth in another city. But our congrats to him.

Absolutely. Big deal. The street continues to Ramsey Solutions. We're blessed to be able to help people in that way.

Absolutely.

Who's up next?

George? George's launch. We're launching a presale on George soon. Very exciting. It'll come out in January. It'll be the launch date. But we'll start talking about it soon like we didn't just now. But yeah, anyway, that's how that happens.

I actually didn't mean to do that, but that was well placed.

I'll have George pay me later. I did that with Rachel's kids book the other day. I said something on the air. Then she wanted to announce it on Instagram first, so she was like, You spoiled my announcement.

I'm very excited about that project, too, because it is so stink and cute. It's a great book. I've actually read it myself at my desk. It's so well illustrated, and it's so stink and cute, but full of actual great knowledge.

Yeah, it is a wonderful kids book.

It's going to be great. A lot of fun.

We'll be talking more about that when we're supposed to.

That's right. We will stop talking about it now.

We're allowed to talk about it. That's right. I just get confused. I think I own the place, so it throws me off.

His name's on the building.

All right. Ron is in Asheville, North Carolina. Hi, Ron. Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Thank you so much for taking my call, Dave. Sure.

How can we help?

My father is 84 years old. He, five years ago asked me to manage his finances. He had a stroke. He now has mild dementia. He lives with my wife and I for the past two years. My father approached me close to a year ago and offered to pay $10,000 toward my daughter's college tuition, and then recently approached me about getting a lawn tractor, and he paid for nearly half the cost. I have two siblings who are accusing me of manipulating him, taking advantage of him. My father, almost on a daily basis, expresses his gratitude to my wife and kid tonight that we keep him out of the nursing home, keep him out of assisted living, and he's very happy where he's at.

He does not pay you any rent?

He does not. The only thing that he contributes is a couple of hundred dollars a month for food expenses, $25 for his cell phone expense, and then he pays one-sixth of the electric costs for six members of our household, but there's no rent.

Okay, and then so $10,000, and what's half the lawn director worth?

He contributed $5,200 toward it.

Okay, so he gave you $15,000 for two years worth of care plus the monthly bills you told me about.

I've taken to doctor's appointments, taken to physical therapy twice a week.

I got that. But he paid you $15,000 for two years of care so far, right?

Yes.

You're promised no additional money, right?

Correct.

Okay. Does your dad have money? A lot of money or little money?

No, he brings in about 40,000 from Social.

Security and a pension. Does he have a nest egg?

No.

Where did he get the 15,000?

He had saved that up in his account.

From his- So now he's broke.

No, he has, well, he has about 4,000 in his checking account right now.

He gave you almost all the money he had. For a lawn tractor, right?

Yeah, $5,500 for a lawn tractor, and then $10,000 for the college expenses.

Okay. I guess, what do your brothers and sisters suggest you do? What do they think the plan is?

They want transparency on his checking account. My brother is insisting on getting online access so he can track dad's expenses and outflows of money. My dad is saying no. My dad is very-.

Is your dad still of his right mind with the dementia?

He has mild dementia. Is he.

Capable of saying no legally?

That's a good question. We've actually got a doctor's appointment coming up, and I'm going to ask.

The doctor- You think he's clear-minded. -for clarification. I think so. Okay, that's what I'm asking. I'm not asking about the doctor. All right. Here's the deal. Your dad needs to handle your siblings, not you.

Right.

He's still clear-minded. It's still his money. He still gets to decide what he wants to do.

Right.

It's not their problem. It's not their money. He needs to call them both and tell them to shut the hell up.

Okay.

It's none of their business. Right. Nanya. Right. Nanya business, okay? He's not taking advantage of me. I gave him $15,000 for these two things. That's less than I would have paid where I am in a nursing home situation, and I've got a much better living situation. I'm very happy with this arrangement. It's not any of your dad-gum business. Shut up. That's your dad's job. He needs to make those two phone calls. No, I'm not giving you transparency to my stuff. Is he giving you power of attorney?

He has not given me power of attorney, but I am a co-account holder on his checking account.

Yeah, you need to get power of attorney. Just for his sake to take care of him because your brother is an idiot.

Okay.

He's a bidder. I mean, it's not like he had $2 million and you went and stole a million and bought a yacht. Right. It was $15,000, which he would have spent two months in a nursing home.

Right.

He's been at your place two years. Right. He'll be there two more years at least.

Right.

That's the bottom of the heaven there. That's if you guys can take care of him as this gets worse. Does he have long-term care, insurance?

He does not. But I'm an RN by background, and we do have engaged palliative care as well, so they can keep an eye on him that way. But it's a blessing to have him there.

We're enjoying our time with him. It's a blessing that you can do this, except for the fact that your siblings are all talked out about almost no money. Right. I want visibility and transparency into the four dollars that he has. Oh, brother. Let's major and minors, dude. Seriously. Tell your dad to re-parent those two and tell him to run, to go away. You can't make them stop being who they are, but he can put a boundary up, and he should while he's still of right mind. Because this is not going to get better, it's going to get worse. These people are going to get madder and madder and madder because it's who they are. Yuck. This is The Ramsey Show. I say it all the time, dead is dumb and cash is king. But when it comes to life insurance, cash value is crap. Cash value life insurance is a high-cost product with little to no return on your so-called investment. The main benefit is fat commission checks for your agent. Term life from Xander insurance is a much better way to protect your family's future. Xander shops the top companies to find you the most affordable term-life rates.

Then you can use what you save compared to those cash value premiums to really build wealth. Go to zander. Com or call 800-356-4282 to learn more today. Ken Coleman-Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Open phones at triple-8-825-525. Recap just a second before we move on to the next caller. If you are an adult and you are of sound mind legally, meaning you are legally medically capable of making your own decisions, you are morally, spiritually, and legally allowed to do whatever you want to do with your money. You are under no obligation to share it with your ungrateful, heroin-addict son. There's not a moral or legal obligation. Half of that money is... No, half that money is not yours, honey. It's his money. It's not yours. If I decide to give you nothing, that's what you get. Nutton. Nutton, honey, just like the Cherios, right? I remember those. That's what you get. Nutton, honey. It's not your freaking money. You don't have rights to it because you hit the DNA lottery. It's not your money. Or my grandfather, it's not your money. Your grandfather, he owns his money. If he decides he thinks you're a twarp and doesn't want to give it to you, it's not your money.

You get nothing, honey. Just like the cheerios. Keep that in mind. You got no obligation, no entitlement, no claim of any kind. If someone's of their right mind, if they leave a will and cut you out of the will, it's their money. Tudda. Some of these people, they lay claim on stuff before people are dead. It's a.

Little weird. Yeah, we have an epidemic of deserve. It's I deserve this, I deserve that.

It's just- It's a deserve epidemic. That's it. It's right next to the dessert epidemic, which I have fallen pregnant.

Well, no comment. Next question, please.

All right, moving on. Hamilton, New Jersey. Natalie is on the line. Hi, Natalie. How are you?

Hi, I'm good. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Okay, so me and my husband, we were on baby step two for a while, and then we went back to baby step one. Ever since 2019, we bought a house, and then we ended up getting cars because our cars were falling apart and we were having a baby and all that stuff. Anyway, when we bought the house, they said we needed to get a new roof within the next year or two, and that was 2019. But now it's 2023 and we need a new roof and it's going to be like $7,000 and we don't have anything saved for it, and we're trying to figure out new stuff.

Shocking. Yeah. We told you not to buy a house while you're in debt and you did it anyway.

No. Yeah, pretty much.

Pretty much.

You did. Me and my husband are on different… My husband doesn't have the same mindset as me.

Yeah, so where's his money for the roof? He didn't have it with his mindset, does he?

No.

It's not working. No. $7,000 roof. Is the roof leaking?

It's not leaking. Good. It looks okay so far.

But yeah. How much debt have you got?

Well, not including the mortgage, we have 109,000.

What?

That is mostly student loans, $80,000 in student loans, $20,000 between our two cars, and then $5,000 in credit card. Okay.

What's your household income?

Per month, it's about $9,000. About $120,000 a year after taxes and everything taken out.

I can't help you until you guys decide you're ready to change your lives. Yeah. I think you are because I hear fear in your voice.

I.

Think you're scared because he's continued to not change, and you all keep doing the same stupid butt stuff over and over, don't you?

Yeah. We budget every month, but it's like every month we set aside things. Yeah, it doesn't fall through.

It's a wish. It's a dream. You're not really leaning in. The two of you have not sat down, taking each other's hands and looked deeply into each other's eyes and says, Nothing happens here till we get this debt cleaned up. We're about to be on beans and rice, rice and beans, and we're going to clean up. We're going to quit buying anything until we get this debt cleaned up, and we're going to live on nothing, and we're going to make every dollar scream. Every dollar is going to behave. You all are nowhere near that.

Yeah.

You wish you were, but you're not.

Yeah.

What is going to get him moving in the right direction? You have the money to clean this up once you have the will.

Yeah. I did sit down with him actually a couple of days ago, and I actually finally listed out all the debts that we had, and we figured out like, Okay, if we did the debt snowball, we'd pay it off within five years just paying the minimums and doing the debt snowball. Yeah.

You should be debt-free in about two and a half years.

Yeah, if we really-If.

You did what I teach you to do. You have the money to do it. You don't have the will to do it. What did he say when he saw this pile of debt and his wife terrified sitting in front of him?

Yeah, it's almost like it's laughable because it's not funny, but it's because we're just like, We knew the student loan debt was bad.

And that's what the both of us did. When you lay it out and say, I can do it in two and a half years if I would commit to it like an adult and quit being a child, what's laughable? It's not laughable.

It's very doable.

It's very doable. What's holding you guys up from doing that?

I don't know. Every month, I feel like our gift budget is crazy every month because we have so many family and friends and weddings and baby shower every month.

It has nothing to do with it. It has nothing.

To do with it. No, I know.

Yeah. You know what it is. The two of you are not working together. You don't agree that you have to sacrifice deeply for two and a half years to clean up this mess. Once you agree to that, the gift budget goes away. We just tell people, No, I can't do it. I'm broke. I'm so broke I can't put a roof on my own freaking house. Of course, I'm not buying you a gift. I mean, it's real simple.

Did he resist it when you laid out the debts for him? What was his reaction? You didn't answer that.

No, he was actually on board. He said, Yeah, that sounds good. But it's just a matter of like, well, now we have that, but then we also have to get a roof. How are we going to afford?

Because we can't wait three years to get a roof. You don't have to get a roof. It's not leaking. It's just looking like it's going to leak. That's right.

Yeah.

The roof is not your problem. The problem is you make $9,000 a month and you keep buying crap you can't afford a roof.

Yeah.

You need to clean this mess up, and you'll be able to get a roof. You'll be able to get a roof. You can get a roof. But the two of you need to get on a detailed budget together and deeply sacrifice, cut everything out of your lives. No eating out, no vacations, certainly no buying anything that's not necessary to exist. Scorched earth lifestyle. $9,000 a month, you can clean up a lot of debt on that money. You got a good income, but you just misbehave with it continuously, and you guys are going to have to fix that. When you fix that, the stuff we teach with every dollar, financial peace, university, total money makeover book, it works, and you'll be able to do it, but you're still not there.

That's key, folks. I hope you heard what Dave said, because we as humans, we want to fit in. We want to do whatever it takes to make everybody happy. The gifts is not the reason they're in the hole they're in, but it is the reason why they haven't decided to make change yet. They're more willing to be uncomfortable and deal with financial stress and anxiety and not be able to be able to do this, this, this, and this, things that don't really matter. That's what happens. You've got to get to a point where you go, None of this other stuff matters anymore. It still matters too much until you say, I've had it, which you've said many times on stage in our FPU videos. But until you get there, you won't make the change.

Yeah, it's that way for everybody. It's true. I'm going to be smart with her, but it's sad. It sure is. It's really because the stress, you can hear it in her voice. That goes away when you get on a detailed plan and you commit. But you have to reach the point that you don't care what other people think. That's right. The only thing that matters is you and your husband on one page. The kids don't get a vote, your mama don't get a vote, nobody gets a vote. We're cleaning up this mess. We're not buying anything else until we get this dadgumb mess cleaned up. I'm tired of living with my stomach and my throat. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. When you reach that point, you will do what it takes to win. This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Colman-Ramsey personality is my co-host today. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Thomas and Abby are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Good. Hey, Gabe. How are you? Better than we deserve. Good to have you. Where do you live? We live in Edmund, Oklahoma. Oh, fun. Welcome to Nashville. How much have you paid off?

$208,000. Good for you. How long did that take? A little over four years. Good. And your range of income during that time?

We started at about $30,000, had a peak of $140,000, and then we actually are currently sitting at $90,000.

Okay, all right, cool. Good for you. What do you all do for a living?

I'm a teacher, and she actually got promoted to CFO, chief financial officer, or chief of family operations.

Chief of family operations. Okay, all right. Stay at home, mom. That's why we're back down to 90. Okay, I like it. Good for you guys. The 208,000, what debt was this?

Oh, man, that comprises of just about anything you could think of. I get my little notes here. I got student loans, car, apartment repair, credit card, and what's the last one? Oh, our house.

Way to go, weirdos. Paid for house. You're so weird. What's this house worth?

We bought it for 175, and it's currently sitting at about 265.

You're paid for? Yes, sir. How old are you, two?

I'm 32 and she's 31.

You're a paid for house. You're so weird. None of your friends have a paid-for house. No. You all are weird. I love you. You're amazing. How does that feel to be that young and not have a house payment or anything? Amazing. It feels so good.

Just feels like my grass.

Yeah. Take the shoes off and walk through the backyard with the grass. It feels different. Good for you. Wow, that's amazing.

Four years, that's a long haul. Was there a moment where you maybe caught a little extra momentum or you went from, Okay, we're just gazelle, gazelle, gazelle, but now we see the finish line? I'm curious what that looked like.

Well, I think when both of our careers really took off as teachers, that's when we were able to really be like, Okay, we have income coming in. We can make this happen.

-military.

Disability? -yeah, he gets military disability, and so we were able to really have good paycheck coming in every month to be able to pay it off and just.

Stick to it. We also had... We got married in October and we signed our mortgage, and then starting in January, I started looking at the bills. I was like, Wow, we're in a lot of debt. We got the house, we got cars, we got credit card hanging out. I sat down with her and I made a budget out before she was... I was really on board with it and I said, Hey, we can get the car paid off in about three months, which is about 10,000 bucks.

Yeah, and I don't know, for me, I'm T-Rex arms all the time like, I don't know, but we... I don't know, like three months in, we were really getting to where we're like, All right, we can pay this off. It was unrealistic for me, but once we got to that three-month mark and we were on that last car payment, I mean, that.

Was the, Okay, we can do this.

Let's keep this going. This is going to work. I did not marry a crazy man. I thought for a minute I did.

Well. That's still, I don't know what you're trying to be telling me.

Still out. But yeah, I changed because there's something about the math that speaks to you and gives you hope. No one can make your brain do that but you. Right.

We kept that momentum going, too. After I sat down and she was like, Okay, show me this budget thing. Show me exactly what you're doing. I sat down and we got every dollar and really mapped out everything that we're... That was my personal goal. We sat and grew as a couple, made it our goals. She said, she was like, Hey. I was like, I think we can knock this out. Make a deal with me before we... You hurt my son in the back. Before we had babies, give me three years to pay off as much debt as we can. She's like, All right, baby fever to the max. Sure enough, about three years after that, or about four years after that, brought baby boy in the world. Three months after he was born, last payment on the mortgage.

I love it. Very cool. Well, it worked out. Good stuff, man. Way to go. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Oh, man, teamwork, honestly. I mean, sticking with eachother on through it, through our weak points. I mean, anytime he was weak, I'd be strong. Anytime I was weak, he would be strong. Just reminding each other what the end goal is and that delayed gratification that this is worth it when you make this happen.

And for me, anytime that we were feeling sorry for ourselves and we just didn't make that extra payment that we wanted to, what we have a saying in our house is, your effort is bad and you should feel bad. Just no excuses.

Yeah, right. Wow, that's strong. Look at you. Way to go, guys. What do you help people? The key to getting out is now at the end of it, the saying, you're working together, all that, right?

Yeah, just teamwork and making a budget. You have to stick to it. You have to have that delayed gratification. If you skip out on anything, it's going to be.

Worth nothing. Now that the house and everything is paid off, what's the first big thing you do to enjoy this?

It was actually yours.

What did we do? We bought.

You a couch.

Oh, yeah, we bought the couch. It's true. I really wanted a new couch. When we moved in, we had this just ratty gray couch that we got from- Did you keep a picture of it? No, we should have.

It was in bad enough shape where we decided we shouldn't sell this. We should just give.

This away. We just gave it away. Pretty nasty. I regret that I didn't keep a picture of the worst hoopties we drove. I've got pictures of most of my cars from over the years, but I didn't get a picture of the worst hooptie because I was just so ashamed and I hated it so bad. I wish I had that picture. That would be a great put-up on the screen in the seminar. It'd be great, but now I don't have it. Oh, well. You don't have a picture of the couch, but it's gone and we're onto the next couch. Life is good. I got.

A 46-inch TV. That was my little spade.

Right in front of the couch. Everybody's winning. I tell her I want.

To watch football looking like this.

I like it's tennis.

I love it. Are you celebrating after the big win over Texas? Are you involved in that side of the rivalry? No. Look at that.

Go Pokes. Yeah.

Oh, okay, I see.

We're Pokes fans. But if they're playing, if OU is playing Texas, we'll do a little boomer sooner.

All right, there you go.

There you go. So fun. Well done, you guys. Well done. Congratulations. Very proud of you. You brought your son with you. What's his name? Yes, his name's Troy. Very fun. Who was your biggest cheerleader outside the two of you? Oh, man, just our village. Our family and our friends. They were all rooting for you. They were all rooting for us. Nobody making fun of you, thought you were crazy. No. Now you got a paid-for house. Yeah, they were all very.

Excited to hear.

That that's what we wanted to do. Once we made it happen, they were very proud of us. Verycool. Very cool. We've got the live and give box for you. That's the Baby Steps Millionaire's book, the Total Money Makeover book, and a Financial Peace University membership. Enjoy some of those, give some of those, and that's what that box is for. Thank you for coming all the way to Nashville. You guys are heroes. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. Very well done. You've changed that little man's family tree, and he doesn't even know it yet. Your life is going to be amazing. Wow. Incredible heroes. All right, Thomas and Abbey and Troy, Oklahoma City, Edmund, Oklahoma, to 208,000 paid-off house and everything in four years, making 30, to 140, to 90 with the CFO. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, one. We're debt-free.

Yeah. That's how it's done, ladies and gentlemen. Getting more and more and more of these 28-32-year-olds with a paid-for house.

It's extraordinary. Paint the picture, Dave, here. What do you think statistically is going to happen? They stay on this. We're talking millions and millions of dollars.

If they save the house payment from that house from '32 to'62, it's probably right around $10 million. That's just the house payment.

Now that's a.

Phenomenal story. Just the house payment.

Just the house payment of a lawyer. Wow.

It's mind-blowing where they're going to be.

Most American young people, young couples, kids getting out of college have no idea of that stat right there.

Well, that they could have that money if they would put four years of- That's right. -four years of sacrifice. Because you know what? The first four years of their marriage. It's tough. They cleaned it up. They did. House and everything.

It's awesome. Wow! This is The Ramsey Show. Are you a small business owner who feels stuck in the daily grind of running your business? Well, you're not alone. We've helped thousands of business owners just like you get unstuck with learnings from the entrée leadership stages of business. Our free assessment will tell you which stage your business is in today and what you can do this week to get out of the daily grind. So don't wait. Go to ramseysolutions. Com/biz quiz to take our free stages of business assessment today. Ken Coleman-Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, Reuben, America. Open phones at triple-8-8-2-5-5-2-2-5. Laurie is with us. Laurie is in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Hi, Laurie. How are you?

I'm.

Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

I just started listening about a month ago because that is super intimidating. And so a quick question. My husband is in grad school, and we have quite a chunk of debt from it. But he just accepted a job with a $30,000 sign on bonus that we'll get next week, even though he doesn't graduate until August of 2024. And so we're not sure how we should use it, and we come up with some options. The first is to pay for the next nine months of living and tuition and not take out any more loans. The second is to keep it and use it for moving help or a possible down payment for a house. Or three is to just pay off some of our debt now to get the interest down and then take out loans to pay for the rest of our tuition.

The first thing you've got to do to get out of debt is stop borrowing more. Okay. So option one.

Okay.

What's his graduate degree and what's he going to be doing?

He's going to be a nurse, a nurse, a nurseatist.

Fantastic.

Okay. How much debt have you got?

We have 155 right now. Okay.

That includes his student loans?

That is all student loans, nothing else.

Okay, good. He's going to be making what, 250?

Two-tenths.

Starting. Okay, good. Almost like I've done this before. Okay, and yeah. You currently make what? Nothing, because you're living on student loans, right?

Right. I do nanny, and so I bring in $1,600 a month, which just pays for utilities and software.

What does it cost you a month to live right now?

Our rent is $1,400. I'm trying to add up cell phone bills and stuff. Probably around $1,800 a month.

Yeah, let's call it $3,000.

Okay.

I want you to live on that when he's making $210,000. Okay. And you'll be debt-free in a year.

Would renting be the best option right out of graduating then?

Yeah. You do not need to buy a house. You're broke. You're in debt up to your eyeballs. You don't need to buy a car and you don't need to go on vacation. You have $155,000. You make $210,000 when he passes his bars and everything in August goes to work. The problem with people in that world is that they make good money. He chose a fabulous career field, and they make good money, and they think that gives them permission to wait forever to deal with this. I'm telling you to deal with it right now.

Okay. To that end, Laurie, quick question. Is there a reason why you aren't working full-time and making more money than that?

I want to stay at home, mom. I just have little kids at home with me. That's all.

Okay, well, I got you. That's awesome. Just wanted to make sure I understood that situation because we'd love to see you make more.

If you could. So $40,000 a year. Three thousand a month is $36,000, okay? Mm-hmm. 40,000 from $210,000 is $170,000 minus taxes. You can just about pay this off in a year. You can come real close. It'd probably be 14 months. But you're going to live like you're living now, not like you've been dreaming of living when your husband has the big-time job. He's a nurse anesthetist. No, he's a broke nurse anesthetist.

Yeah.

That's what you need to think about, because all the people graduating with him are getting ready to do really stupid things while they still are sitting on 200K in student loan debt.

Okay.

I promise you, if you go with that herd, you're going to go over the cliff with that herd.

Right, yeah, which is why I just started listening to you because I was like, This is super intimidating, and so I didn't know how to tackle it. What would our monthly payment look like then?

Well.

To try to get.

That done? If you did $155 in 10 months, it'd be $15,000 a month, right?

Oh, my gosh.

Okay, just simple math. If you do it in 20 months, it's going to be 7,000 a month. You're going to do somewhere between there. Twelve thousand a month is $144 a year.

Okay. You said try to stay at 3,000 a month for a living and everything.

It's what you're spending now. Why do you need to go up? True. Matter of fact, we increased. You said $1,800. I went to $3,000. I almost doubled your budget.

That is true.

I mean, it's all kinds of luxurious compared to where you are now. Because here's the thing. Once you're living on $70,000 a year, it's really hard to live on $36. But if you're living on 30 and you get to live on 36, you feel like you got a raise.

Yeah. My parents always tell me don't go backwards once you go forward.

It's a hard step to take. That's why this is the time to do it. Because if you kick the can down the road and you go, Oh, we're going to go ahead and buy a house, and we're going to let this student loan sit over here and act like it's not a monster in the closet. By the time you do all that and then you try to cut your lifestyle down after you've gotten used to the nice, cushy lifestyle, it's a lot harder than it is right now for you.

Okay.

Because right now, while you're used to living on nothing, keep living like a college student, right?

Right, yeah. I get a little on that.

I'm telling you, in 14 months, you all could be free forever. Think about it, Laurie. I mean, you got the rest of your life to make $250,000 a year and you don't have a payment in the world. You know how fast? I mean, think about it. You could save $100,000 a year for three years and pay cash for a $300,000 house.

That's wild. When we talked about putting a little aside for a down payment, ignore that completely, injustice student debt.

Yes, ignore it completely. You're going to get there. My point is, when you have all this money and no payments in the world, you can do anything you want to do. You're going to be in great shape. Please do this. Please, please, please. Will is in Tampa. Hi, Will. How are you?

Hey, Dave. How are you doing? I'm good. Thank you for taking my.

Call today. Sure. What's up?

I've done a lot of stupid things with money for the past probably five, eight years or more. I finally got ahead and I've been listening to your podcast. I'm in the FBU as well for the past month. So me and my wife, we did week one and week two. And one of my biggest worries right now is to create a nice fund for college for my kids. I have a kid that's 12 and another one that's nine. Cool. I worry about how can I create that fun while paying for debt and all that?

You can't. You're going to do it in baby steps, remember? You remember the baby steps?

Yeah, but the thing is my wife doesn't trust me.

The Baby Steps, you can't ask me how to take care of college. Get out of debt first, follow the baby steps. You're in Financial Peace University for God's sakes.

Yeah, but my daughter is 12. I mean, I probably.

Have about- Do you think it's going to take eight years to do this?

I don't know. The way that I'm going-.

Well, the way you're going sucks. That's why you're an FPU. What do you make?

I make about 95 a year and with bonuses, I can get up to 130.

Cool. You got a great income. How much debt have you got, not count in your house? Not count in your house.

Not count in my house. I have 43 in my student loan, and my wife, and 29 in her car.

Okay. She's going to hate this even more.

I know she does. We've been coming back and forth about the car. I want to sell it. She says I don't want to.

A $30,000 car and you all broke people.

It does.

Is she going to Financial Peace University with you? She is. Are the two of you doing a budget together? We are. The question you guys need to sit down and ask yourself is not, Do I want pain tomorrow? The question is, Do I want pain 10 years from now? How long you all been married?

It's going to be 15 years next year.

How long you've been making six figures?

About since 2016.

Can you not look at each other and say it's time for a change? You make $100,000 and you're broke.

For.

Almost a decade. You all need to change something, don't you?

Yeah. How big is the.

Problem was that I- No, the problem is the two of you have got to look at each other and say it's time for a change. That means we're going to do whatever it takes so that the 10-year-from-now version of me likes the current version of me because you don't like the 2016 version of you because he's been stupid for eight years. I've been stupid. I know what stupid looks like. I'm not picking on you. But youpresent. You all are broke and you make $130,000 a year. It's time to change something, man. You can't keep doing the same thing over and over and expect a different result. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's The Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, number one best-selling author and the co-host of the Ken Coleman Show, Ramsey personality, talking about career jobs and having fulfillment in that area of your life, also making more money than you ever made in that area of your life. It's a good idea. He's my co-host today. As we take your calls about your life and your money.

Our congratulations, we learned a few hours ago that Dr. John Deloney has his second number one best-selling book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, debuts at number one in the nation on the non-fiction list. Way to go, Dr. John. John Deloney is in another city right now doing a media and podcasts and such for this book, as a matter of fact, to continue to promote it. We'll have an official celebration on the air with him when he gets back next week. But in the meantime, a few hours old is that information that we just found out he's number one in the nation. Very cool. Quite a milestone. That's a second number one. Very, very good stuff. He and Rachel will also be doing the money and marriage event coming up October 19th through the 21st. We're talking seven days from today. There is still a few tickets left. It's here on the Ramsey Campus. It is a weekend-long, very intense, very hilarious, because the two of them, oh, my God, they're stand-up comedy. I mean, just walking around with them there, but you put them on stage, it's even worse. You're going to laugh, you're going to cry, you're going to learn about marriage, you're going to learn about money.

Bring your spouse, obviously. It's a couple's weekend, and it's here on the Ramsey campus. We're going to treat you like kings and Queens. You're going to have a blast, and you're going to learn a bunch. There are a few tickets left if you'd like to come. That's why I'm mentioning it. It's 7:99 for this multi-day event, and it's just a few hundred people. It's a small event, very intimate. You'll be able to ask a lot of questions, have a lot of interaction with John and with Rachel. Ramseysolutions. Com/events, and make your way over here in about a week and hang out with a couple of number one bestselling authors that will help you do all that stuff. Lindsay is in Washington, DC. Hi, Lindsay. Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hi, thanks for.

Having me on. Sure. What's up?

I have a rental property in Washington, D. C. C. And I'm trying to decide if I should pay off the mortgage and keep it as a rental or sell it when my tenants lease is up. I'm currently debt-free, and I'm not ready to settle in one area, so I'm renting as my primary resident. But currently, my rental income covers the mortgage and the condo fees, but I'm paying a property manager out of pocket. Should I continue paying those out-of-pocket expenses and put all my extra income and my RSUs toward paying.

Down the mortgage? You have the money to pay off the mortgage now or not?

No, but I could pay it off in probably the next seven years.

Is what I've calculated. But you're not going to stay there.

But it's a rental property.

Right now. I know, but you're not going to stay there. You don't want long-distance rental properties. You don't want a rental property in Washington, DC, and you live in Dallas. That's a bad plan. You're going to end up with a mess. I own a bunch of rental property. I don't do long-distance landlording. Bad idea. It's how people end up changing their Harley and your living... Harley Oil in their living room. I know you've got a property manager, but there's no property manager like the person that owns it. You're always looking at it. You're always thinking about it. The property manager is not saying. I don't know.

Yeah, I mean, the property manager for the past few years has been really... It's been an amazing setup. My only qualum is that I'm... Because my condo fees keep going up little by little, I'm closing the gap to cash loading, but I have not yet cashloaded.

What could you make if you sold it today?

I could probably make profit like $50,000.

Yeah. Okay. This condo is not a financial blessing to you. It's an alligator. It eats, it doesn't feed. You're feeding it. I don't want it. I want something that creates money, not takes it. Did you use to live in it? I did, yeah. Yeah, okay. You became a landlord by default, not by plan, because very few people would sign up for the plan you've got. It's not that much fun because you're not making any money. You're paying money.

I was in the military, and a lot of them... The going advice in the military was like, buy property everywhere you go.

Yeah, the going advice in the military is wrong. We work with the military all the time. That's a dumb idea. You'll end up with a condo in every city you were ever stationed in. Oh, my Lord. Talk about a bad idea. Let's have a rental property portfolio scattered all over America. Yeah. No, I'll pass. I would sell it. You don't make any money on it. There's financial fun. It won't even buy you dinner. You just pay for it all the time. Now, I don't want that. I wouldn't have a piece of property I lost money on all the time. I had one, and I was sitting and waiting on it to get better. Not because it wasn't rented. It was a big old office building that was a Shell thing downtown Nashville. I bought it at a deal, and I sold it for a couple of million dollars profit over what I paid for it. But I was sitting there eating taxes and eating insurance and eating everything because we didn't have any tenants in it because it was a shell. We were going to build it out. I finally just went, This is done.

I just sold it. I'm going to put a couple of million in my pocket and forget it. I don't want things I have to feed. They're supposed to feed me, I'm not supposed to feed them. That's not how this works. So yeah, get rid of it. That's what I would do.

Parents all over America are questioning having teenagers now.

If that advice you just gave- Well, they might feed you later.

No, that's not what he meant, but I couldn't resist.

Yeah, that's there. That's true.

That's my reality right now. You're sitting there talking about that, and I'm.

Going, I've got a bubble above my head. I have a mortgage payment that is called my food bill.

Yeah, I have two teenage boys that eat a lot.

Oh, yeah. A lot. Yeah, these are.

Big humans. Strong young men.

Yes, that's right. Love it. Raini is with us. Raini is in Orlando. Hi, Raini, how are you?

I'm doing good.

How are you? Great. How can we help?

I recently quit my job stupidly without having the other one lined up. Then I wanted to know, isn't it worth it to take a low-paying temporary job versus doing side jobs like delivering food or packages or something like that?

Why did you do that?

Yeah, what?

A lot happened and it was really draining my mental health. We discussed it multiple times and nothing ever got better. I just got to my breaking point that day.

Let's look at your question. Have you run the numbers? Can you give me numbers on the low-paying job versus these what you're calling delivery or side gigs? What's the difference that you've figured out that you can make between the two?

It definitely varies. We do have some debt and bills that we have to pay. I've been offered jobs that only pay $12 an hour versus delivering food, which I have the opportunity to make tips and stuff, which I feel like could make more, but it's up in the air because.

It's per delivery. All right, so here's the thing. We can't feel anything right now. You need your income. It doesn't seem like it's an option. You're taking the best paying job or jobs to get back to what you were making in your salary job while you're busting it to get your mental health in a situation where you can get back into a full-time role, there's no option here. You've got to make as much money as possible.

To get back to where you were. You've got debt. $12 in this market is absurd. Yeah. Every being is paying 20. Don't take a $12 job. This is The Ramsey Show. Folks, changing your family tree takes more than rice and beans and side hustles. It's also about transferring the big financial risks off your family by having the right kinds of coverage in place. That's why my team created the coverage checkup quiz. It only takes about five minutes to find out what types of insurance you need and don't need to protect your finances. Offices. Make this quiz one of your regular checkups starting right now at ramseysolutions. Com/checkup. That's ramseysolutions. Com/checkup. Ken Kahlman-Ramsey personality is my co-host to the day. Our question of the day is sponsored by Neighborly, your hub for home services. If you're moving, you have a long list of to-do's. But Neighborly has local pros like housemaster, five-star-painting, window, genie, and junk king to check items off that list. Download Neighborly, the app to find and schedule home service experts near you. It's a great company.

Yeah, it really is. Today's question comes from Tara in South Carolina. I'm 49 years old, a single mom of an eight-year-old, and I'm debt-free, including my home. I've always been risk-averse and an aggressive saver. Before I discovered your program, I was planning to have my home paid off by September 2024, but went ahead and pushed through and paid it off in August 2023. I have a net worth of approximately 1.5 million and have an established college fund for my daughter, which I continue to contribute to. However, I feel unsettled about what's next. I've always been working to pay off something. I feel like maybe I should be saving up for a retirement home or making some other financial move, or maybe I'm just not used to being still and not hustling so hard. Am I crazy? Well, Tara, no, you are not crazy. You are a hero as a single mom. You have so much going on. You have a million and a half dollars right now. What you have done is unbelievable. I think this is just a function of you've been going so hard so long. It's like the runner's high where people, they get that another gear, the body, and everything's moving.

You're used to that pace, and then you come off of that and you crave it. You want to get that again. I think you need to be still for a little bit. Rest, relax, reward your sofa what you have done. You've earned it. Then instead of the hustle to pay something off, I love moving into a different gear, not quite as intense. Instead of fifth gear, maybe how about fourth gear of investing towards something that you care deeply about, giving some of your money, your time to causes that you care deeply about? I think that's a great downshift. There's just no way you're ever going to just be still. I'm not worried about her.

Yeah, 49-year-old single mom worth a million and a half. Wow! That's pretty cool, including a paid-for house. Yeah, you're in really good shape. Yeah, do hit the next stage. There's nothing left to do but baby step seven. We say baby step seven is build wealth and give. Continue to build. Set yourself some investment goals. But as Ken said, you can dial back the intensity of a couple of notches and set yourself some crazy generosity goals. One of the things we did as we started hitting the early stages of baby step seven was we had a goal, Okay, I want to give away more than we made one year.

That.

Was fun. Or more than we made our first year or something like that. Maybe when you were 49, maybe when you were 29, what was your income? That's my generosity goal on top of my tie. I'm an evangelical Christian, so I give a 10th to my church. But then other than that, what other generosity can we come up with that's fun and different? You'll end up enjoying the investing and enjoying the generosity, and it won't be the haggard, desperate sense, the pace that you've been running on. Pain and pleasure are both motivators. Now you're on the pleasure-motivated side. You've been running in desperation away from all the stuff for a long time, and that's the pain side. But I know, I know the feeling. Then you go, Oh, that's so much fun. I want to do that again. That's the pleasure motivating side. That could be a travel thing, it could be something you do with the eight-year-old, it could be something you buy. It could be an investment. It could be generosity. You find out, I'm going to fund X, Y, Z, something I never thought I could do. Wow, it's fun to watch that happen.

Virginia is in Durham, North Carolina. Hi, Virginia. Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Thank you. Good afternoon. I am 66. I have no spouse, no children, and I'm doing some estate planning. It is likely that it will be a niece or a nephew that will handle the details of my funeral. I've talked to a funeral home and to get some estimates, and they are telling me that they will require payment before they render any services, and that.

They.

Won't wait for probate so they can be paid out of my estate. So I'm looking for ways to put money aside so that my family can get to it quickly without having to pay for it out of their pocket first and then get reimbursed from the estate.

Yeah, you can have a POD, a paid-on-death account in most states.

Just a regular savings account?

You can have a savings account or a checking account that says paid-on-death, POD. Ask your bank if North Carolina does that. I'm pretty sure they do. Most states do. They do. That just simply means it's not a probate issue, that the money is just paid out to them at death. They can go over the bank and pick up the money and then go to the funeral home. Okay. Just like that. Are you going to pre-plan the funeral hall?

I'm going to pre-plan, probably, but not pre-pay.

Good. That's what we advise. If you've already got the budget done, then you know how much to put in the account, right? Right. By sitting down with them, Okay, I've already got all the selections done, all they've got to do. Then they don't have to go over there and make any decisions. They've just got to go over there and punch the ticket. Right. Because you pre-made all the decisions. That's very wise. Let me tell you, funeral homes often tell you what they told you, but they also often will work with a family in a real situation. The reason they tell you that is I'd like for you to prepay. That's why they push you on that. I don't like for you to prepay. I like for you to pay when you die. I don't need the funeral till I'm gone. In the meantime, the money can sit in a savings account, put it in a highly yield savings account, let it earn 4 or 5% instead of sitting in their bank account.

Okay.

Thank you so much. You're very wise and you're very kind to your family. That's very diligent of you.

Well, I'm not really close to any of my nieces or nephews, and so I'm trying to make it as easy for them as possible because somebody's going to have.

To do it. Yeah, I made.

It easy. Don't screw it up. I'm the youngest of.

My.

Generation, sir. They'll be gone. Everybody else will be gone.

Good for you. All right, that's fun. You could have just a friend that does it, too, if you'd prefer. But however you want, a POD account, and you don't need to put just the right amount in there to cover the funeral. That's all you need to do. If it's a tiny bit off, believe me, the funeral home will work with them. They're not quite as hardcore as they like to come across. Peter is in New York City. Hi, Peter. Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hi, how are you guys? Thanks for.

Having me. Sure. What's up?

We're on baby step two. My wife and I, we're both 28. We have a child. We're planning to have a second child sometime in 2025. Currently, we have about $25,000 in savings. We're thinking about saving some of that money, not going down to a thousand in order for where my wife goes on paternity leave that we can pay out the rent.

But she's not pregnant. No, not yet. Okay, we don't do that now. You get out of debt. How much debt have you got?

We have about 927,000 total debt.

That includes your mortgage?

Yes.

We have two mortgages. Yeah. I'm not counting your mortgage. How much debt have you got, honey?

63,000.

Roughly. What's your household income?

About $198,000 gross. Okay.

If I woke up in your shoes, I'd put $24,000 on the $63 today, and I'd be dead free before probably Christmas. Oh, my God, you make so much money. Pay off this debt. What's screwing around with this little debt? You're acting like you're going to keep this debt around like it's a pet. You make $200,000 a year. It's 63 grand. You already got 25 of it. How fast can you come up with 40 and about three heartbeats. Quit spending everything on it. That depends.

With our expenses.

Yeah, I know. You got really expensive because you live high on the hog. That's what we call it in Tennessee, not New York.

Yeah, no, I'm actually European. I'm from Croatia. That is not a thing in Europe, especially not in Croatia, which is a former Slavy country. I know. And it's separated. People didn't trust banks. So my parents really weren't into that. The only thing they got was a mortgage, and that was.

A seven-year mortgage. You have a fabulous income. Take some of your huge lifestyle and turn it back and clean your wonderful debt up so that when your wife gets pregnant, you got money in the bank and you have no debt except your mortgage. That's where I would be if I were you, Peter. That's very doable with the math you gave me once you make the decision. You're always from making the decision based on your sentence structure. This is The Ramsey Show. Here's the thing about investing advice. You can find it just about anywhere, but that doesn't mean it'll always help you with your personal goals. Here's another option. Check in with a Smart Vester Pro. These financial advisors can review your plan or help create one that's personalized to you. To find a Smart Vester Pro in your area, go to ramseysolutions. Com/smartvester. Go to ramseysolutions. Com/smartvester.

Ramseysolutions is a paid, non-client promoter of participating pros. Learn more at ramseysolutions. Com/smartvester. In the.

Lobby of Ramsey Solutions, on the debt-free stage, David and Tammy are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Good. How are you, Dave? Good, thank you. Better than I deserve. Welcome. How much have you paid off? Well, $442,517. $442,000. Very good. Way to go, guys. How long did this take you? About 12 years. Okay. Your range of income during that time? We started out at about $110,000. This year, we're on pace to be at 360. Cool. What do you all do for a living?

Well, I'm a.

Product strategy manager for the.

World's.

Largest construction and mining equipment company.

I'm a technical writer and I specialize in proposal work, and I moved into business development about two.

Years ago. Oh, very good. That was a smart move. I like that. Very good. Both of you are killing it. Excellent job. Where do you all live? Purey, Illinois. Oh, fun. What debt was the 443? About 138 of it was credit card, normal debt, car, boat loan, things like that. Then this March, we paid off our mortgage.

Yeah.

Looking at weird people. Yeah. What's this house worth? About 350. Love it. How much in your retirement accounts? About 1.5. I love it. Did you guys inherit any of this money or are you Baby Steps Millionaires? We were Baby Steps Millionaires, but my parents passed away a couple of years ago and did leave us a nice gift. Okay. But prior to that, you were already millionaires. Yeah. Wait a go, you guys. So proud of you. Look at you, man. That's so fun from the ground up, baby. How long you all been married? Twenty-eight years. Twenty-eight years. What happened 12 years ago put you on this Ramsey stuff? Tell us the story.

Well, about 2009, I.

Guess, we.

Had a blip in our employment, and I sat down and we read your book. He had heard about it from work, and I did a spreadsheet. Honestly, Dave, I cried. I cried because it was so bad. We had so much money going out and not nearly enough coming in. We were making pretty good income, but it was just all going to dumb stuff, honestly. We weren't paying attention to where it was going, and we weren't naming our dollars, and they were getting away from us. So it was a problem.

Then once you guys decide to attack it, you've got the skill set. I mean, your technical right or business development, and he's in project management. But this is like the ultimate project management process, right? Exactly. Okay, let's whip this thing. That's exactly what we did. Then just lean in and boom. How long before you got rid of the consumer debt? It was about 23 months, and then we went out and bought a new house following your principles and guidelines. We needed a house with a little bit of land to put up a bigger garage. I still have the first car I ever bought. Very nice. Part of our celebration, after we paid off the house, was to start restoring that car. What is it? 1979 Trans Am. Nice. Is it black with a bird on the- That's what I.

Was going to ask.

It is not black. You've got the bird on it? It does have a bird on it. Oh, my.

God, that's a car. It's in reservation field right now, and we were able to buy two more for him now that we've paid off all our debt. We now have a garage with fun cars. Two more transams? Yes, I have.

Three total. We have three total.

Yeah, there's a slip. Yeah, he's an awesome mechanic, and it's really cool to watch him build them back.

That's so fun. Very cool. What are the other two? 1992 Trans Am convertible and 2001 Trans Am WS-6. I didn't even know they're making it. I mean, I'm from the '70s. Yeah, they quit making them in 2002. Okay, all right, that's the last one. Yes. Okay, wow. All right. Oh, man. Amazing. Well, I guess Pontiac is gone, really, isn't it? Yes, it is. There you go. Oh, my gosh. Wow, that's cool. That's a classic. That's the Smoking the Bandit. Smoking the Bandit. Yeah, the Burns and the Reynolds. The black one would be. He didn't have the black one made. Correct. All right, so what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is you pay off everything, house and mortgage and build a one and a half million dollar net worth in 12 years. That's pretty impressive. Well, Dave, just slight correction, almost two million dollars net worth. Oh, I'm sorry. The one and a half was just savings. Just savings. Oh, yeah, you're right. Okay, plus one and a half. 1.85. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Really, for us, it was just getting on the plan, naming every dollar, having budget meetings, spreadsheets, as you can imagine, as we started out, and just naming every dollar where.

It went. Our friends think we're so weird because we had financial meetings every month where we sat down and said, Okay, how's it working? Then once a year, we get together and say, Okay, do we need to bump up this budget here? Do we need to move this down? Like, groceries have gone up. We're like, Well, we should probably put a couple of hundred dollars more in groceries this year. They're like, You're so weird.

Yeah, but you're not broke, and they are. Oh, my God! Yeah, they sit down to a spreadsheet and cry, and you don't anymore. Oh, my goodness. Way to go, you guys. Yeah, I'm so proud of you. Were people outside cheering you on, or did anybody know you were doing this? Several people did know we were doing it. We had family and friends cheering us on. Everybody would call me cheap or frugal.

If it's not in the budget.

Doesn't get spent, especially if it's a discretionary purchase. Right, that's how a project works. Exactly. You execute on the project. I love that. Exactly. That's great. That's so great. Very cool. Good for you all. You're heroes, man. I mean, you did it. We did do it. How old are you all? I'm 52, and I'll let her tell.

Her age. I'm 53. We're feeling like we're ready to retire. I couldn't believe we would.

Be.

Here where we started. It's just really cool. Now we have family members now who are following and have gone through financial peace. I think this will change their lives as well as it changed ours.

Oh, yeah. Well, when he got the third transom, I thought maybe he knew what he was doing. That had nothing to do with anything else. It's like, He keeps buying cars. He must be okay. I like it. I can hear family now. That's just fabulous. Well done. Very well done, you guys. Well, you fit the mold. You fit the template from the millionaire research study that we did, typical millionaire is 52, so you're right on it. You were there a long time ago. But of the ones that we studied, we found that number of 49, 52, 38. Now we found a bunch of young ones, too, and we found some old ones. But you're right in the perfect in the median right there. That's a perfect hit. Good job, you guys. Thank you. Great job. What's the first big thing you're going to do other than buy cars to celebrate? Well, we're going on a cruise here next month. Where are you going? Just a short one through the Bahamas and just getting warmer weather being from Illinois. It's fall. It's starting to get a little cool. Yeah, why not?

We laughed because when we paid off the house, we both got on a conference call and sat down with bank and they said, Okay, it's paid off. We're like, Okay. We're like, That's it? We went back to work. We just went back to work after. No steak dinner or no nice dinner that night? No.

Exactly, we.

Exactly went back to work. We were busy. I love that. You very serious, serious individuals. All right.

There's more to do. Let's go. We have a plan for pretty.

Much everything. I'll bet. That's so good. Hey, real quick, because of that, are you beginning to plan about some big vision that's out there? You guys are still very young, 52, 53. What's that plan?

Yeah, so our retirement goal is, we mentioned we.

Own a boat.

So our retirement goal is to do the America's Great Loop. Oh, yeah.

That's great.

Yeah, it's awesome. We got a boat or a yacht? We have a yacht. Okay, good. Very good.

So we are building our way towards that goal when we retire. Do you need a cabin boy?

We have a lot of volunteers already.

He doesn't.

Take up much room and he doesn't need much.

I don't. We have several nieces and nephews who've already volunteered.

He's fairly needy emotionally, though.

Takes one to know one. That's a great plan, you guys.

That's a great. I want to do that loop one of these days. I never thought of that. I'm those several people that have done it.

That's going on Dave's list.

That's what I would do. I need to put that on the list. I never put it on there. We might see you out there. Yeah, absolutely. Hey, we've got the live and give box for you, Baby Steps Millionaire's book, which is you, and the Total Money Makeover Book, which is you, and the Financial Peace University membership, which is you. So apparently you will be giving all that away, but we'll give it to you and let you give it to who you wish. You may enjoy the book or who knows. Great stuff, you guys. I'm so proud of you. David and Tammy, Peoria, Illinois, 52, Babysteps, Millionaires, 1.85, paid for a house and everything, $443,000 paid off mortgage and everything in 12 years, make it 1.10 to 360. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one.

We're debt-free. We're free. Yes, they are.

Yeah.

I love it. This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman-Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're so glad you're with us. Our scripture of the day is Proverbs 28:19. Whoever works his land will have plenty of bread, but he who follows worthless pursuits will have plenty of poverty. Sam Mueing says, Hard work spotlights the character of people. Some turn up their sleeves, some turn up their noses, some don't turn up.

That's a great quote. I've never heard that. I haven't either. Some don't turn up at all.

Some just don't turn up. You got to love it. Eric is in Canada. Hi, Eric. Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hi there. Thank you for taking.

My call. Aaron, I called you Eric. I'm sorry.

It's okay. I recently found The Ramsey Show and enjoyed listening to it even from Canada, where I have to mentally juggle the differences between Canada and US financial products. Sure. I apologize in advance if I sound confused. I am. I'm really just looking for direction on what to do to get a better sense of how my husband and I are doing and what we should do next. But I think it's really just to get on the same page. As a new listener, I'm familiar with the baby steps, and I think that we're on four and five. My husband and I both have jobs that we enjoy with healthy salaries and index government pensions. We own our own house with a mortgage that has considerable equity. We have a rental house with a mortgage with considerable equity that's profitable after tax. We both have emergency funds and we have funds started for education funds for our children. And in addition to the work pension, we both pay into registered R-R-S-E, which is Canada's version of a registered retirement account with automatic transfer. But despite all that, I feel like we're living paycheck to paycheck. And I'm always confused that a family with a gross annual income of over 250,000, it feels like we're just getting by.

And I don't know if it's because how we're managing our money or just because we live in a very expensive area in Vancouver. But my husband and I have been together for 14 years and married for nine and always kept their finances separate. We've got that because we bought our first house that's now our rental when we weren't married. And I know it's not recommended from what I've heard, but we kept our accounts separate and just combined at a couple that we really needed to get by. But I'm really just looking and I think the next step is to just get back on the same page and create a plan for us and start doing monthly meetings. But I don't know how to start that process. And I've always been the family CFO and a. I just need to get a better sense on how to bring this up to him and some practical steps on how to get on the same page for the first time.

Okay, all right. A lot going on here. Thanks for the outline. Now, I'm trying to figure out, like you, the core of this is when we do whatever it is you're going to do, combining finances or any other moves that you make, the net result needs to be that you get some peace because there's a lot of strife and struggle and scratching and clawing in this, isn't there?

I.

Don't know why we can't live on 250,000 and feel like we're not broke, you said.

It is. We look around and we're like, I feel like that's healthy and we see friends doing well. I just always think I wish I could see what someone's bank account.

Looked like. No, you can't. Because they're- Most of them are not being nearly as smart as you are. You've got your stuff dialed in. Most of them are just living. You have no idea how screwed up they are. Their life looks good. It looks good for a second on Instagram, but if you really get under the hood, it'd make you puke. Yeah.

That's what I told my husband.

That's exactly right, I promise you. I pull up at a stoplight, I see a nice car now. I don't see a nice car. I see payments.

Yeah.

That fool's got a $1,250 payment. That's what runs through my head. I used to see a nice car, now I see a fool. But anyway, I think you need to sit down with him and say, Hey, we've done it this way 14 years. It's passable, but I feel like I'm holding this together. I feel like I got off 10 fingers stuck in the dike, and it still feels like water is getting over me. I really want to combine these things so that I don't mind doing the execution of our plan, but I'm tired of developing the plan by myself. I want us to combine things. You and I make a group of basic decisions on what we're going to do with our money, lay out a budget each month where we know where every dollar is going to go. We both agree to it. Then I'll do the execution. I doubt he wants to or would relish taking over the tactical paying of the bills, which you actually enjoy probably.

I think I like having control of it. Yeah, and I think that there's a level of trust, too, or I would worry about relinquishing that. I think that that's why I've always wanted.

To be some.

Of my trust. Relinquishing the trust? Or relinquishing the power, sorry. Oh, okay, that's fair. Of knowing.

It all. But with the power comes the stress.

Yeah.

That's probably what's putting the strain on you. That's what I'm saying. Listen, I'm America's financial nerd, right? Don't you know why I do this stuff? In my opinion between Sharon and I carries a lot of weight. But we don't do anything unless she's in alignment first. Then that helps me because we're emotionally carrying the decisions of our giving, emotionally carrying the decisions ofour investing or our investing are big decisions together, and then I'll go do the execution of it. It becomes a no-brainer. That also prevents, I told you so. I knew you were going to screw that up. Well, Sharon could tell you. I told you so. It could happen at my house. It doesn't happen because she can't. She was in on it. If something screws up, it's like we screwed that up, not like, I know you're going to mess that up. That doesn't come up at my house. It hasn't in 30 years, so it's really nice. I like it.

I got a question, Aaron, because I'm listening to this back and forth here. I thought I heard you say that you and your husband both have emergency funds. Is that correct? Yeah. Is that 3-6 months on each side, between the two of you?

No, not each side. Combined together, it would be that. But I think if we both lost our jobs at the same time, that would not be great.

You're both investing 15% or you're combining.

Investing 15? No, we both have government-funded pensions.

Do you have any other debt besides the mortgages?

No, none.

I think it'd be really cool to dream together again. I do, too. To dream together in high definition about, Okay, if we could find some money in this $250,000 budget, what would be fun for us to do? What investing would we do? Would we pay off the house? Would we pay off the rental? Would we do some additional generosity? Making those decisions together rather than just running this like it's a joint venture, I think you're going to find a whole new depth to your relationship. I don't think you've got a horrible marriage, but I think you're going to find it being better when you combine. Matter of fact, I know from working with millions of people, talking them into this. It's amazing the number of people that hate us for telling people to combine their finances, but whatever. We're right and you're wrong, so you ought to do it. Really, I mean, it works. It changes your marriage. It forces you to dream together. It forces you to carry the weight together. It forces you to communicate about purchase decisions. For God's sake, where we're going to go for Christmas this year? Your mother's house or my mother's house?

It's in the budget that we have to talk about it. There's no surprises, there's no side agendas. It's like this unity thing, and it creates a level of unity that nothing else will do. Hey, here's the thing. What if you combined it all and tried it a year and I was wrong and you absolutely hated it. Well, you didn't lose any money. Just split it back apart. What's wrong with trying it? That's what I would do. Give it a shot and tell him that too. Just say, Hey, if it doesn't work, if we hate it, we can split it back apart. It's not like a tattoo. I mean, we can change it, right? There's a lot of stuff we can do here, so it's not a permanent fixture. Ken Kahlman, good hour.

Thank you, sir.

Thanks for having me. Well done. Well done to the booth people. They did a great job today. Good work in there. That puts this hour of The Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

Hey, it's Ken. If you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey baby steps, go to ramseysolutions. Com and click on the Get Started button. We'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation. Again, that's ramseysolutions. Com, and click Get Started.